View Full Version : New Civs - Confirmed Details


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CivOasis
Feb 16, 2012, 08:25 PM
Well, since it is perhaps the most key component of the game (we are playing Civilization, after all), let's compile a list of what we know about the new civs.
For interest reasons, we'll include City-States, as well.

Note that this is not a speculation thread. Don't make a guess in here, unless you have some evidence to back it up. If you want to guess/predict a new civ, do so here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454171)
Unique abilities alone may be discussed here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454159)

Now, for details:

Byzantium:
UU: Dromon
UC2:
UA: Gives the Byzantines an extra Belief slot.
Leader: Theodora
Capital: Constantinople

Carthage:
UU: Quinquireme
UC2: African Forest Elephant (Strength 14)
UA: Phoenician Heritage (Free harbors, units can cross mountains)
Leader: Dido
Capital: Carthage


Celts:
UU: Pictish Warrior (Strength 11, Movement 2)
UC2:
UA: The Celts have a religion-based bonus when settled against forests.
Leader: Boudica
Capital: Edinburgh

Maya:
UU: Atlatl
UC2:
UA: Unknown, but somehow involves calendars.
Leader: Pacal
Capital:

The Netherlands:
UU: Sea Beggar, a melee ship that steals gold.
UC2: Polder - UI that can increase land (apparently) and yields a luxury resource, Tulips
UA: East India Company - luxuries are not lost when traded
Leader: William of Orange
Capital: Amsterdam

The Huns
UU: Horse Archer
UC2: Battering Ram
UA: Scourge of God (Raze cities twice as fast, start with Animal Husbandry, +1 production from pastures)
Leader: Attila
Capital: Attila's Court
Note: All other Hunnic cities are drawn from the bottom of other civ's lists.

Ethiopia
UU: Mehal Safari (recieves bonuses for fighting closer to capital)
UC2:
UA: Unkown name, but gives bonus to fighting larger nations
Leader: Haile Selassie
Capital: Addis Ababa

Austria
UU:
UC2:
UA: Diplomatic Marriage, but allows Austria to marry into and "inherit" City-States peacefully.
Leader: Maria Theresa
Capital:

Civ9: Sweden
UU: Carolinean
UC2: Hakkepillita
UA: Noble Prize
Leader: Gustavus Adolphus
Capital:

City-States:
Mercantile: Antwerp, Marrakech, Tyre (changed from Militaristic), Columbo
Religious: Jerusalem, The Vatican
Cultural: Milan
Unknown: Lisbon, Zanzibar

Any confirmed details, please post with links/evidence below. Everything here was either detailed in the 2K release, images, or translated from another Civ site.

Louis XXIV
Feb 16, 2012, 08:34 PM
Wooh, thanks for the plug :D

Do you want confirmed City-States in this thread too? Might allow us to give more useful information :)

CivOasis
Feb 16, 2012, 08:37 PM
Yeah, sounds like a great idea!
Name and type would be ideal, I think. Lisbon and Anhalt are confirmed, but what kind?

Louis XXIV
Feb 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
Antwerp is confirmed. The type is not 100% certain, but it's the same symbol as the trade route symbol. This suggests Mercantile. Source is the fourth pic from the Screenshot thread (about espionage).

CivOasis
Feb 16, 2012, 08:48 PM
Oh, wait, did I mistake Anhalt for Antwerp? One second.

Camikaze
Feb 16, 2012, 08:58 PM
We know the following about the Dutch from here (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamer.nl%2Fpreview%2F247129%2Fc ivilization-v-gods-kings&act=url):
And yes, William of Orange and the Netherlands are finally our own party. Better yet, the Dutch will be a few interesting units and buildings, including a ship that steals gold from port cities and even ships of the enemy to overrun your side. They can also convert wetlands to profitable fields, making these areas much more attractive.

CivOasis
Feb 16, 2012, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the info!

Haig
Feb 16, 2012, 10:56 PM
Celts get religious Faith points from forests

Byzantium gets an additional sixth Bonus Belief

Pouakai
Feb 16, 2012, 11:55 PM
Hate to be nit-picky, but it's Capital, not Capitol. Also, from the screenshots it appears that the only two cities in the screenshoted game from the Celts are Dublin and Cardiff, yet neither of them have the capital icon.

Louis XXIV
Feb 17, 2012, 12:05 AM
We can speculate in the other thread, but it was Bibracte in Civ4.

MARDUK80
Feb 17, 2012, 06:54 AM
The Netherlands:
UU: Unknown name, but a ship that steals gold.
UC2:
UA:
Leader: William of Orange
Capitol:
Note: While we don't know if it is part of a UA or UB, the Dutch can apparently convert marshes to better terrain (grasslands?)

They can also convert wetlands to profitable fields, making these areas much more attractive.

I understood this a little bit differently. That the Dutch's one uniques is a ability to terraform - turn water tiles into land tiles. So they can build land bridges to coastal islands and to other continents. Or perhaps in city screen UB gives chance to select water tiles and then transform them to land tiles(?).

I mean, doesn't every Civ have ablity to use worker unit to convert marshes to better terrain? Am I wrong with this one? :)

anandus
Feb 17, 2012, 07:00 AM
I understood this a little bit differently. That the Dutch's one uniques is a ability to terraform - turn water tiles into land tiles. So they can build land bridges to coastal islands and to other continents. Or perhaps in city screen UB gives chance to select water tiles and then transform them to land tiles(?).

I mean, doesn't every Civ have ablity to use worker unit to convert marshes to better terrain? Am I wrong with this one? :)You're not wrong, but nowhere has been said that water tiles would be able to be converted to land tiles.
Wetlands will be able to be converted to 'more fertile' grounds. What this exactly means isn't clear. It could be that marshes will be converted to some sort of superfarm, or it could be there's another new kind of tile, a coastal marsh as wetlands.

Captain Fargle
Feb 17, 2012, 07:23 AM
Maybe they've added fens and that's what the Dutch can covert?

Montov
Feb 17, 2012, 07:28 AM
I understood this a little bit differently. That the Dutch's one uniques is a ability to terraform - turn water tiles into land tiles. So they can build land bridges to coastal islands and to other continents. Or perhaps in city screen UB gives chance to select water tiles and then transform them to land tiles(?).

I mean, doesn't every Civ have ablity to use worker unit to convert marshes to better terrain? Am I wrong with this one? :)

As a native Dutch speaker, I can say your interpretation is not correct.
"Moeraslanden" are 'swamp fields', thus Marsh in civ. But of course, the Dutch article could be misinterpreting.
I'm trying to come up with some yields to make it a cool improvement, like 6 gold, or 1 food, 1 hammer and 2 gold. There isn't much marsh on most maps, so the yields must be really good to have some sort of impact.

Rex_Mundi
Feb 17, 2012, 07:50 AM
Din't the Dutch article say that the unique ship could steal gold from costal cities and convert enemy ships.
Kind of like the privateer of civ 3 + civ 4?

I only read the google translated version, so I can't be sure.

anandus
Feb 17, 2012, 07:51 AM
@Rex: Yes.

Camikaze
Feb 17, 2012, 08:01 AM
I'm trying to come up with some yields to make it a cool improvement, like 6 gold, or 1 food, 1 hammer and 2 gold. There isn't much marsh on most maps, so the yields must be really good to have some sort of impact.

Unless the Dutch have a start bias near marshes.

Willowmound
Feb 17, 2012, 09:06 AM
Hate to be nit-picky, but it's Capital, not Capitol.

Yup, a capitol is only a building. A capital is a city.

Optional
Feb 17, 2012, 09:06 AM
I've made a slightly smoother, more complete translation than that ugly google translation for what is written about the Dutch; nothing new, but this should read a little easier:
The Netherlands
The last addition is that of 9 new civs. And yes, finally our own Netherlands and William of Orange are in. Better even, the Dutch will have a few interesting units and buildings, among which a ship that steals gold from harbour towns and even can convert enemy ships. Besides this they can transform marshes into profitable fields, making these areas more attractive.Both 'units' and 'buildings' are written as plural in the Dutch text. Can't be true, I suppose, but that's how it's written here.

mitsho
Feb 17, 2012, 09:32 AM
So any guesses for Religious City states? My try:

Jerusalem (as long as Israel is not a civ), Qufu (Home of Confucianism - it's not in the chinese city list, right?), Avignon (Home of several popes, and Rome is kinda taken...), Lhasa (this change is kinda easily explained), Pataliputra/Patna (Indian City, now in Ruins, but important center of Buddhism), Amritsar (where the main temple of the Sikh is located), Antioch (the closest to an important christian city I could find not found in any city list), Angkor Wat (the Khmer are not in, right? it's a wonder, but so is Macchu Picchu...), Najaf/Kerbala (Medina and Mecca are taken, so the next best thing is a Shia religious center?), Itsukushima (Famous Shinto Shrine). Would Sheba be a possibility as well?

What are holy places for Zoroastrianism, Mithraism or the "Mesoamerican" one?

Louis XXIV
Feb 17, 2012, 09:56 AM
This isn't supposed to be the thread for speculation.

mitsho
Feb 17, 2012, 10:36 AM
Yes, you're right. Wanted to post that into the Guess the Civs thread. My bad. No need for a new thread. (Or does my post more belong in the religion thread?

(Though, what's this thread for then, there's a stickied confirmed information thread already)

CivOasis
Feb 17, 2012, 02:32 PM
Not for civs only, Mitsho.

Thorburne
Feb 17, 2012, 03:54 PM
Acording to Gamespot:

...Beach noted that the Celts have the ability to gain additional faith when their cities are settled against a forest.

http://www.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/

CivOasis
Feb 17, 2012, 09:51 PM
OP updated.

CivilizedPlayer
Feb 18, 2012, 07:54 AM
The capital of Byzantine Empire is Constantinople.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire

Louis XXIV
Feb 18, 2012, 09:34 AM
We know it is and it will almost certainly be so in game (just like Amsterdam will be the Dutch capital), but we're talking about details that have been confirmed by a gaming magazine, not just historically true.

CivOasis
Feb 19, 2012, 12:03 PM
Yeah, sticking to game-confirmed details, no matter how obvious it may seem.
Anyways, has there been any word on the Mayan UA, or any UUs or CSs?

Camikaze
Feb 20, 2012, 01:17 AM
Nothing other than it has something to do with the Calendar.

CivOasis
Feb 20, 2012, 10:30 PM
Well, updated with what we do know, in light of the lack of forthcoming info.

CivOasis
Feb 29, 2012, 05:09 PM
Just noticed the newer announcement of CSs, and updated the OP to reflect that.

Louis XXIV
Mar 08, 2012, 10:12 AM
Not a new civ, but Tyre has been changed to mercantile (source (http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1811&news=civilization+v+5+gods+and+kings+expansion+pac k+2k+gdc)). I'm thrilled to here this.

fat_tonle
Mar 08, 2012, 10:17 AM
I'll be shocked if Atilla's Court is not a military CS. Then again, doesn't really fit a military CS, should be outright barbs if anything, and no existing or added CS trait would match that.

It looks like the Celts are the teal color in the screen shot. Mayans might be the light blue color.

If light blue is Mayan, then Zulu is in, because you can clearly see yellow units that look like Impis moving over hills.

Pouakai
Mar 08, 2012, 10:31 AM
In addition to Louis' post, Tyre has unique luxury "Jewellery"

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 08, 2012, 10:36 AM
Jewellery seems like an interesting choice for a luxury resource because it is a manufactured product. Does it mean that you only get jewellery if you can provide gold, silver, or gems to Tyre? Does Tyre also have gold, silver, or gems within its territory and thus provide two luxuries?

Very interesting.

Pouakai
Mar 08, 2012, 10:43 AM
I believe Jewellery is a luxury resorce that you recieve only by allying with Tyre, I don't think it'll have to have stuff provided

fat_tonle
Mar 08, 2012, 10:45 AM
Jewelery is the bonus resource? That is beyond lame...

Imagine CS having actual luxury or even strategic resources that were unique. That takes game play and Diplomacy to a higher level.

seasnake
Mar 08, 2012, 10:51 AM
Jewelery is the bonus resource? That is beyond lame...

Imagine CS having actual luxury or even strategic resources that were unique. That takes game play and Diplomacy to a higher level.

Actually, that is unique. You have access to a product that only you can use or sell to others if you are their ally. No other city state will provide finished Jewelry, just them.

CYZ
Mar 08, 2012, 10:54 AM
I'm 99% sure the Dutch UI is a Polder. The UI in the screenshot looks exactly like one (dike and windmill for drainage) would also make the most sense.

Kimuyama
Mar 08, 2012, 11:09 AM
I'll be shocked if Atilla's Court is not a military CS. Then again, doesn't really fit a military CS, should be outright barbs if anything, and no existing or added CS trait would match that.

It looks like the Celts are the teal color in the screen shot. Mayans might be the light blue color.

If light blue is Mayan, then Zulu is in, because you can clearly see yellow units that look like Impis moving over hills.

Or, the yellow one might be the Mayans, with the unit being the ever present Holcan, their unique unit in every strategy game they appear in.

Anyways, Dido is confirmed as the Carthagnian leader

Louis XXIV
Mar 08, 2012, 11:43 AM
I'll be shocked if Atilla's Court is not a military CS. Then again, doesn't really fit a military CS, should be outright barbs if anything, and no existing or added CS trait would match that.

Looking at the screenshot with Atilla's Court; unless they were conquered really early, there does not seem to be a way to fit three civs there. So, in that context, I agree it's probably a city-state. However, I would not necessarily be surprised either way.

If light blue is Mayan, then Zulu is in, because you can clearly see yellow units that look like Impis moving over hills.

BTW, which screenshot?

Regarding jewelry. I wonder if the luxuries for mercantile city-states change randomly or if they are specifically picked. I'm willing to be it's the former since I don't think Tyre is necessarily associated with Jewelry. They're actually associated with Dyes, but those are already in the game. I like that it's manufactured luxuries. That helps make things a bit more unique and explains why you need the city-state to still be there rather than just conquer them. It's also possible you get more than one so you can sell the excess.

AbsintheRed
Mar 08, 2012, 11:57 AM
Looking at the screenshot with Atilla's Court; unless they were conquered really early, there does not seem to be a way to fit three civs there. So, in that context, I agree it's probably a city-state. However, I would not necessarily be surprised either way.

Yeah, it really is strange, whatever is the case...
I'm kinda thinking they are messing with us on purpose
It's only a vanilla city states renamed to Attila's Court :mischief:

fat_tonle
Mar 08, 2012, 12:08 PM
Looking at the screenshot with Atilla's Court; unless they were conquered really early, there does not seem to be a way to fit three civs there. So, in that context, I agree it's probably a city-state. However, I would not necessarily be surprised either way.

We can only hope. I will vomit if I see that in my game as a playable civ.


BTW, which screenshot?

The minimap.... I was wrong because there is Japan in that game so my theory goes out the window. However, there is still another light blue civ with new colors. Could be Byzantium. Could be someone else. Not Zulu that much we can assume.


Regarding jewelry. I wonder if the luxuries for mercantile city-states change randomly or if they are specifically picked. I'm willing to be it's the former since I don't think Tyre is necessarily associated with Jewelry. They're actually associated with Dyes, but those are already in the game. I like that it's manufactured luxuries. That helps make things a bit more unique and explains why you need the city-state to still be there rather than just conquer them. It's also possible you get more than one so you can sell the excess.

I think the UR will be something generic like "Unique Jewels", as opposed to specifics like Jade or Ruby or something that would get overly tedious. Not really the detail we expected in this department.

SammyKhalifa
Mar 08, 2012, 12:13 PM
Yeah, it really is strange, whatever is the case...
I'm kinda thinking they are messing with us on purpose
It's only a vanilla city states renamed to Attila's Court :mischief:

Do you remember any of the screen shots from previews of any of the other civs? There were some silly city names in there as well. It seems obviously that they threw together a scenario to demonstrate some of the new things to the crowd.

Louis XXIV
Mar 08, 2012, 04:51 PM
We can only hope. I will vomit if I see that in my game as a playable civ.


I'm setting myself up for a bunch of disappointments with the historical flavor choices. For me, Dido was bad. At this point, I don't think the Huns will disappoint me further.

However, I still expect it to be a fun game and these disappointments pale in comparison.

CivOasis
Mar 08, 2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the info, I'll update the OP soon.

CivOasis
Mar 08, 2012, 07:12 PM
I haven't looked too closely yet, but updated to note the inclusion of the Huns.

Dregor
Mar 08, 2012, 07:16 PM
We can only hope. I will vomit if I see that in my game as a playable civ.

Better get yourself to the vomitorium!

vonbach
Mar 08, 2012, 07:21 PM
I haven't looked too closely yet, but updated to note the inclusion of the Huns.Are they that desperate for an asiatic civ? No one really knows who the huns were
or what they really looked like. No real unbiased sources. What are they going to do
with the city names just make them up? I seriously hope this is a typo or a gag.

Bechhold
Mar 08, 2012, 08:02 PM
So that's Mayans, Hunts, Celts, Carthage, Byzantium, and the Dutch...

CivOasis
Mar 08, 2012, 08:10 PM
Are they that desperate for an asiatic civ? No one really knows who the huns were
or what they really looked like. No real unbiased sources. What are they going to do
with the city names just make them up? I seriously hope this is a typo or a gag.

No, it was in an interview. Firaxis confirmed that they added the fall of Rome to showcase Byzantium, the Huns, and the Celts, 3 news civs they were adding.
So, not a gag, and I doubt a typo.
Seriously hoping for some lesser-known ideas in the last three, though.

CivOasis
Mar 08, 2012, 08:29 PM
Questions:
Was Prague in Vanilla, and were any CSs noticed?
Is the female leader screenshotted CONFIRMED to be Dido? I've had one person tell me they thought it might be Theodora.

AbsintheRed
Mar 08, 2012, 08:32 PM
Questions:
Was Prague in Vanilla, and were any CSs noticed?
Is the female leader screenshotted CONFIRMED to be Dido? I've had one person tell me they thought it might be Theodora.

Prague wasn't in vanilla
The name of the pic was Dido_high_res or something like this - I'm pretty sure it had Dido in it anyway

Omega124
Mar 08, 2012, 08:34 PM
Prague wasn't in vanilla
The name of the pic was Dido_high_res or something like this - I'm pretty sure it had Dido in it anyway

Well, it wouldn't be the first time the previews are wrong if it is Theodora. :p

Anyways, I'd say wait until we have more evidence than a file name.

turingmachine
Mar 08, 2012, 08:38 PM
Both Dido and Theodora were confirmed in separate interviews

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 08, 2012, 09:31 PM
I think that's Dido, Theodora strikes me as a more "beautified" medieval queen, that's obviously an Ancient leaderhead.

blackcatatonic
Mar 09, 2012, 06:32 AM
I think it's Dido too. Not enough bling to be Theodora :P

MARDUK80
Mar 09, 2012, 06:37 AM
I think it's Dido too. Not enough bling to be Theodora :P


Plus the filename is /leader_dido.jpg ;)

http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/03/leader_dido.jpg

True_Candyman
Mar 09, 2012, 06:44 AM
Deleted - missed a comment above :(

Damn Huns...

anandus
Mar 09, 2012, 06:48 AM
I hate to nitpick, but this is a thread called confirmed details OP, and the Huns as a civ is far from confirmed. It seems likely now but we don't know enough to classify it as confirmed as far as i'm aware.The Huns are confirmed:
PCG: But there are a couple religious scenarios.

Beach: We have one that highlights the religion system and how to mod it. We have another one—the Celts and the Huns and the Byzantines—we’re introducing that set of three new civilizations and we decided that a fall of Rome scenario would be perfect.

AttilaTheHun
Mar 09, 2012, 07:06 AM
I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I am really looking forward to playing the Huns. :)

blackcatatonic
Mar 09, 2012, 07:14 AM
^ I LOLed.

Omega124
Mar 09, 2012, 01:58 PM
Plus the filename is /leader_dido.jpg ;)

Anyways, I'd say wait until we have more evidence than a file name.

Still hold this opinion.

turingmachine
Mar 09, 2012, 02:07 PM
Still hold this opinion.

But it doesn't matter if that specific picture is Dido or Theodora, as both Dido and Theodora are in the game. Both have been mentioned in several previews. One preview even talks about Carthage under Dido fighting Byzantium under Theodora.

Louis XXIV
Mar 09, 2012, 02:09 PM
Yeah, not only is Dido confirmed, the picture looks nothing like Byzantine art, fashion, or architecture. It fits perfectly in the Greco-Punic hybrid that was Carthaginian, though.

Morningcalm
Mar 09, 2012, 03:22 PM
But it doesn't matter if that specific picture is Dido or Theodora, as both Dido and Theodora are in the game. Both have been mentioned in several previews. One preview even talks about Carthage under Dido fighting Byzantium under Theodora.

Where's the preview about Theodora? I sincerely hope they didn't pick her. Female leaders are nice, but none of the Byzantine ones did much at all.

Gucumatz
Mar 09, 2012, 03:27 PM
Where's the preview about Theodora? I sincerely hope they didn't pick her. Female leaders are nice, but none of the Byzantine ones did much at all.

Theodora didn't do much? Not true at all, just look at what she was able to do (because we all know who was in control between her and Justinian). A powerful leader by all means. We have leaders in game who didn't even rule their respective civilization/lead but were very important (i.e. Bismarck).

Morningcalm
Mar 09, 2012, 03:48 PM
I'm pretty sure the Theodora they have in the game won't be Justinian's wife, but this Theodora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora_%2811th_century%29

Hopefully I'm wrong. Though if they are representing Justinian's wife, it'd be strange not to have Justinian in the leader screen too. Theodora (Justinian's wife) was the power behind the throne, not the power on it.

CivOasis
Mar 09, 2012, 04:03 PM
Well, updated with all that is known to date.
Any more word on UUs, UBs, UAs..
Actually, anything?

Liex
Mar 09, 2012, 04:11 PM
Edinburgh seems (http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/CivilizationVGodsKings/Civ5GandKScreen3.jpg)to be the Celts' capital.

turingmachine
Mar 09, 2012, 04:24 PM
Where's the preview about Theodora? I sincerely hope they didn't pick her. Female leaders are nice, but none of the Byzantine ones did much at all.

I know there was another one as well but:

http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1811&news=civilization+v+5+gods+and+kings+expansion+pac k+2k+gdc&p=2

"While we were playing, we saw that Queen Theodora was secretly plotting against Dido, the queen of Carthage."

Well, updated with all that is known to date.
Any more word on UUs, UBs, UAs..
Actually, anything?

Prague (http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/CivilizationVGodsKings/Civ5GandKScreen2.jpg) and Zanzibar (http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/CivilizationVGodsKings/Civ5GandKScreen3.jpg)as city-states.
Pictish Warrior gets faith from kills (http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1811&news=civilization+v+5+gods+and+kings+expansion+pac k+2k+gdc&p=1).
Mount Sinai new natural wonder that gives faith (http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1811&news=civilization+v+5+gods+and+kings+expansion+pac k+2k+gdc&p=1).

Liex
Mar 09, 2012, 04:42 PM
Also, the OP could add some info on civ's colors. Some people may find it interesting.

CivOasis
Mar 09, 2012, 05:36 PM
Ah, good point. I'll grab those later, unless someone decides to post them here.

D712
Mar 09, 2012, 06:17 PM
Also, I don't know if this had been noted, but there is a new city state of Prague in the game.

http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1811&news=civilization+v+5+gods+and+kings+expansion+pac k+2k+gdc&p=2

If I'm not mistaken, that wasn't there before.

CivOasis
Mar 09, 2012, 06:24 PM
It's been noticed, and is new.

Guandao
Mar 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Huns...why? :(
They had no culture, no cities, no recorded language, no music
I rather than use Goths instead of them, at least they were more civilized.
What is Attila going to speak? Mongolian? Turkic language? Hungarian?
I'll never play as them since they stole a spot from many worthier civs.

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 11, 2012, 06:59 PM
no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Huns...why? :(
They had no culture, no cities, no recorded language, no music
I rather than use Goths instead of them, at least they were more civilized.
What is Attila going to speak? Mongolian? Turkic language? Hungarian?
I'll never play as them since they stole a spot from many worthier civs.

:rolleyes:

(sigh)

I think it's nice that they're including Huns. I think people are overreacting a little bit. so what that they included Huns? I have never seen Poland included and I never complain about it... :mischief:

Be happy that we get 9 civs instead of 2 and buy the rest with DLC like everybody probably expected.

I for one am glad Huns are in, a nice unique civ that has never been included.

Keejus
Mar 11, 2012, 07:24 PM
Can we say that Attila's Court is the confirmed capital of the Huns? It's next to Hippo Regius in that screenie, which is definitely Carthaginian.

EDIT: There's also a unique improvement in the Dutch lands that's almost definitely a Polder. It's at least confirmed that they have a UI.

EDIT 2: Civ colors

Dutch: Orange and white
Carthage: Grey and purple
Celt: Green and light blue

Maya: Yellow and green
Byzantium: Light blue and purple

CivOasis
Mar 11, 2012, 08:29 PM
Where is the Polder?
As to the Huns capitol, that has a lot of speculation, so, no, not calling it confirmed yet.

Keejus
Mar 11, 2012, 08:42 PM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/03/civ5gandkscreen2.jpg

Two tiles northwest of Rotterdam.

MARDUK80
Mar 12, 2012, 07:46 AM
I'm pretty sure the Theodora they have in the game won't be Justinian's wife, but this Theodora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora_%2811th_century%29


I am 99% sure it is Theodora the Wife of Justinian I. As she was also in Civ III the Byzantine leader and Theodora you suggested had hardly any power and ruled only for a very short period (along with her sister Zoe).

she was co-empress with her sister Zoe for two months in 1042 and sole empress from 11 January 1055 to after 31 August 1056.


Hopefully I'm wrong. Though if they are representing Justinian's wife, it'd be strange not to have Justinian in the leader screen too. Theodora (Justinian's wife) was the power behind the throne, not the power on it.


Yeah, kinda like this:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/proc/shp/img/theodora.jpg


Additional info:
http://www.civ3.com/conq_prof_byzantines.cfm

Empress Theodora (Wife of Justinian I)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora_(wife_of_Justinian_I))
Theodora is perhaps the most influential and powerful woman in the Roman Empire's history.

Theodora is considered a great female figure of the Byzantine Empire, and a pioneer of feminism, because of the laws she passed, increasing the rights of women. As a result of Theodora's efforts, the status of women in the Byzantine Empire was elevated far above that of women in the Middle East and the rest of Europe.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0848391.html
Theodora d. 548, Byzantine empress. Information about her early career comes from the often-questionable source, the Secret History of Procopius. It appears that she was the daughter of an animal trainer in the circus, and that she was an actress and prostitute before her marriage (523) to Justinian I, who, on his accession in 527, made her joint ruler of the empire. A stronger person than her husband, she helped save the throne through her energetic action in the Nika riot (532) In her youth Theodora came under the influence of the Monophysite sect; Justinian's efforts to reconcile the Monophysites to orthodoxy were probably inspired by her. She is represented in the mosaics of the church of San Vitale, in Ravenna.

Would be cool if she looked something like this in CiV. Sitting on the throne, surrounded with Byzantine decorations.
http://enteranotherage.webs.com/theodora.jpg


I hoping her personal traits would be seductive and cunning ;)

blackcatatonic
Mar 12, 2012, 07:50 AM
It would be awesome if they had Justinian AND Theodora together as one leader... I can't see it happening, though.

Pargali
Mar 12, 2012, 07:52 AM
It would be awesome if they had Justinian AND Theodora together as one leader... I can't see it happening, though.

I totally agree with you!

So that Fatih Sultan Mehmed can smash them both at the same time...

me smash you die...

Art Grin
Mar 12, 2012, 08:01 AM
me smash you die...

I bet this is what Attilas declaration of war is going to sound like.:lol:

Louis XXIV
Mar 12, 2012, 10:52 AM
I'm pretty sure the Theodora they have in the game won't be Justinian's wife, but this Theodora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora_%2811th_century%29

Hopefully I'm wrong. Though if they are representing Justinian's wife, it'd be strange not to have Justinian in the leader screen too. Theodora (Justinian's wife) was the power behind the throne, not the power on it.

They had Theodora, wife of Justinian, in Civ3. I wouldn't put it past them to have the other Theodora just like Monty I vs. Monty II, but it would probably be just as bizarre of a choice of Theodora wife of Justinian.

Art Grin
Mar 12, 2012, 11:25 AM
I doubt that they decided to use the other Theodora, rather than Justinians wife. If they wanted some female Byzantine leader other than Theodora, Justinians wife, they would have used Irene of Athens, instead of an Empress who ruled for a year.

D712
Mar 13, 2012, 05:44 PM
It was confirmed by another thread's link that the Dutch building (the one in the screenshots that was multi colored) was actually a tulip field, and the tulips can be traded.

CivilizedPlayer
Mar 13, 2012, 06:01 PM
Theodora was Justinian's wife, but she wasn't a ruler. So that's weird. However it would be cool if Justinian and Theodora were rulers together.

Pouakai
Mar 13, 2012, 09:34 PM
There was another Theodora, who co-ruled with her sister, Empress Zoe.

Interestingly, Dutch have been referred to in the same article as having Dikes, Polders And a Unique Privateer unit, as well as a unique Tulips resource which can be traded. Is it just me, or is that four UC?

CivOasis
Mar 13, 2012, 09:40 PM
I have the impression that the Tulips falls under the polders, but IDK how the others work. Unless the dikes are part of the UA.

theadder
Mar 13, 2012, 09:47 PM
There was another Theodora, who co-ruled with her sister, Empress Zoe.

Interestingly, Dutch have been referred to in the same article as having Dikes, Polders And a Unique Privateer unit, as well as a unique Tulips resource which can be traded. Is it just me, or is that four UC?

I have a feeling that the polder/dike is one arrangement on a tile and that perhaps the tulips emanate from that tile; that cuts down the added stuff quite a lot if they are connected.

At the very least I think that the polder/dike is similar?

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 13, 2012, 09:49 PM
You know, it makes perfect sense to have one nation use the ability of Mercentile City States (Unique Luxury).

Art Grin
Mar 14, 2012, 04:04 AM
There was another Theodora, who co-ruled with her sister, Empress Zoe.

Interestingly, Dutch have been referred to in the same article as having Dikes, Polders And a Unique Privateer unit, as well as a unique Tulips resource which can be traded. Is it just me, or is that four UC?

I would guess that the Dutch have a Privateer UU, a Polders UImp and the Dikes are probably their UA.

Uberfrog
Mar 14, 2012, 09:49 AM
Dykes surround polders, and tulips are grown in polders. It is one unique component. I don't understand the confusion. I suppose it's possible that they can also turn marshes into fertile farmland as a UA (although that clashes with the polder a bit, especially if that needs to be built on marshes). But any civ can remove a marsh.

It is important to remember that journalists aren't civ fanatics, and they often don't use the "correct" terminology when previewing features. One really mustn't jump on everything they say as being a super-secret revelation. :P

snipperrabbit!!
Mar 14, 2012, 09:54 AM
Yes, it's rather likely a trade UA + a privateer UU + a polder UI.

The_J
Mar 14, 2012, 12:23 PM
From here (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?79078-Gods-amp-Kings-Expansion-Pack-angek%FCndigt!&p=4629091&viewfull=1#post4629091): GamersGlobal.de (http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.gamersglobal.de/angetestet/civilization-5-gods-kings) (main point is about the dutch, but the google translation is awful, so manually):

Wir wechseln jetzt zu den Holländern und ihrem Anführer König Wilhelm von Oranien. Ihre Spezialfähigkeit setzt auf die Ostindien-Kompanie – eine Handelsgesellschaft, mit deren Hilfe die Holländer eigene Luxusgüter im Handelsgeschäfte einbringen können, ohne an Zufriedenheit zu verlieren. Außerdem besitzen sie den "Sea Dagger", eine Einheit, die küstennahe Städte plündern kann, und errichten Polder, mit dem sie Neuland gewinnen und das Land vor Hochwasser schützen.

We switch now to the Netherlands with their leader King Willem of Oranje. Their special ability is the East India Company - a company, which helps the Netherlands to bring their luxuries into trades without losing any :). They also have the "Sea Dagger", a unit, which can plunder cities at the coast, and the Netherlands can also build polders, which they can use to gain new land and which protects them from floods.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 12:31 PM
Being able to sell all their luxuries without losing happiness is pretty cool. It's hard to say what they mean about the "Sea Dagger", it seems to be a melee ship, but that's not unique. Does it gain extra gold from taking coastal cities?

What do they mean when they say that the Polder gains new land? Do they mean it makes marshes profitable? Can it literally turn a coast tile into land?

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 12:33 PM
Interesting. Although this only confirms in my mind that the Arabs desperately need a boost.

Pouakai
Mar 14, 2012, 12:34 PM
The 'Sea Dagger' may be able to build Polders on Coastal Tiles?

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 12:35 PM
I think that's two clauses in a not greatly written sentence.

They have Sea Daggers
They can build Polders which...

ETA: Any Dutch person have a clue what a Sea Dagger is?

The_J
Mar 14, 2012, 12:38 PM
It's hard to say what they mean about the "Sea Dagger", it seems to be a melee ship, but that's not unique. Does it gain extra gold from taking coastal cities?

:dunno: I'm with you here. Might be that whoever wrote the article doesn't know it better :dunno:.

The 'Sea Dagger' may be able to build Polders on Coastal Tiles?

I think that's two clauses in a not greatly written sentence.

They have Sea Daggers
They can build Polders which...

ETA: Any Dutch person have a clue what a Sea Dagger is?

I understood it in the same way like Louis, I changed my translation a bit :).

Pouakai
Mar 14, 2012, 12:42 PM
Only thing I can find is a Spec. Ops Swedish sub


EDIT: My post was purely speculation on how to make the Sea Dagger unique

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 12:44 PM
Maybe Sea Dagger is a German translation or euphemism for Privateer or Pirate.

janboruta
Mar 14, 2012, 12:46 PM
It was the only English word in a German article, it wasn't translated, but it would make sense that it's a Privateer. Modern "Sea Dagger" is a sovert operations submarine, and it doesn't fit the Dutch. I think it's a kind of privateer, fluyt or other light ship.

guczy
Mar 14, 2012, 12:48 PM
I don't really see the confusion, to me the german text is quite clear:

UA: East India Company - Can trade luxuries w/o losing happiness
UU: Sea Dagger - A replacement for the privateer (this is just giessing, but as we know there will be such a ship it is safe to say, that the Sea Dagger will be its replacement), that can plunder coastal cities without capturing them
UI: Polder - well the article doesnt really say anything about it, that could be translated into a game concept, it is probably built on marshes and gives gold and food

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 12:49 PM
Sea Dagger is written in English, which suggests it's the unit name.

Pouakai
Mar 14, 2012, 12:50 PM
We know from other articles that Polder give Tulips as Unique Luxury

guczy
Mar 14, 2012, 12:51 PM
Sea Dagger is written in English, which suggests it's the unit name.

I really hope they have a good explanation for that name though, i love the Age of Sail, have read books, watched movies and played games of this era, but never ever seen "Sea Dagger"

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 12:54 PM
Well, it doesn't make sense for them to pull it out of thin air, especially since there are known Dutch things they could have used as an alternative.

shaglio
Mar 14, 2012, 01:08 PM
"the Netherlands can also build polders, which they can use to gain new land and which protects them from floods."

I wonder if this means there will be random events such as natural disasters?

Deggial
Mar 14, 2012, 01:18 PM
I wouldn't be so nitpicking about this german article.

While there are some usefull informations, the author seemed a little bit clueless on other points. For example he writes about some changes in espionage as if espionage was included in vanilla CiV.

shaglio
Mar 14, 2012, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't be so nitpicking about this german article.

While there are some usefull informations, the author seemed a little bit clueless on other points. For example he writes about some changes in espionage as if espionage was included in vanilla CiV.

As I was reading, I thought some things sounded a little odd. I just assumed that was due to a bad translation from google. Maybe this guy was just elaborating on what Polders do in real life rather than what they do in the game.

Art Grin
Mar 14, 2012, 02:20 PM
According to the German article the Dutch can trade luxuries without losing happiness, they can build a ship called Sea Dagger which can raid coastal cities and they can build Podlers that create new land and protect that land from floods.

MadDjinn
Mar 14, 2012, 02:47 PM
Anyone else think this 'reviewer' just misunderstood most of what was said? :rolleyes:

A quick 'google' of Sea Dagger gets the aforementioned 'sub' with Sweden/Germany as reference countries.

That's very unlikely to be a renaissance era ship.

Any chance someone knows of a better Eighty Year War (independence was around the time of Frigates/etc) ship? and to top that off, assume 'dagger' is mildly 'phonetically' similar - at least to someone who doesn't understand English well/has accent issues.

turingmachine
Mar 14, 2012, 02:54 PM
The only non-modern, non submarine "Sea Dagger" I could find on Google is that it's the name of a privateer in a series of romance novels by Brenda Joyce. I seriously hope that's not the reference they were going for.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 03:07 PM
I may have a clue for our Sea Dagger:

What if the German misheard or misread the unit name? Being a different language than his own, it could be possible.

I found a Dutch boat type called a Dogger. it's a vessel with a blunt bow and two masts. A blunt-prowed vessel would probably make a good landing craft because it can run up on beaches.

Sea Dagger = Zee Dogger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_(boat)

CivOasis
Mar 14, 2012, 03:20 PM
I put up the information, though I do need to throw the colors up, still.

guczy
Mar 14, 2012, 03:26 PM
I may have a clue for our Sea Dagger:

What if the German misheard or misread the unit name? Being a different language than his own, it could be possible.

I found a Dutch boat type called a Dogger. it's a vessel with a blunt bow and two masts. A blunt-prowed vessel would probably make a good landing craft because it can run up on beaches.

Sea Dagger = Zee Dogger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_(boat)

That would not make too much sense either, as according to the wikipedia article the Dogger is a small fishing boat, the military version had only 4 cannons, which is half of that of a Sloop

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 03:28 PM
However, given that it is a fishing vessel, but also known to be armed, it would make a good Privateer. Plus, creative interpretation on the part of Firaxis could give it a mightier punch.

guczy
Mar 14, 2012, 03:36 PM
However, given that it is a fishing vessel, but also known to be armed, it would make a good Privateer. Plus, creative interpretation on the part of Firaxis could give it a mightier punch.

It's a 13 ton fishing vessel. You need to be REALLY creative to make that into a ship that can plunder a port.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 03:40 PM
I admit, it's a tenuous arguement to make, but I haven't seen a really definitive link between the Dutch and anything called a Sea Dagger.

turingmachine
Mar 14, 2012, 03:51 PM
Maybe they actually meant the Geuzen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Beggars), known in English as "Sea Beggars"?

From Wiki:

"Geuzen (French: Les Gueux, English: the Beggars) was a name assumed by the confederacy of Calvinist Dutch nobles and other malcontents, who from 1566 opposed Spanish rule in the Netherlands. The most successful group of them operated at sea, and so were called Watergeuzen (French: Gueux de mer, English: Sea Beggars). In the Eighty Years' War, the Capture of Brielle by the Watergeuzen in 1572 provided the first foothold on land for the rebels, who would conquer the northern Netherlands and establish an independent Dutch Republic. They can be considered either as privateers or pirates, depending on the circumstances or motivations."

They also fit better with William the Silent.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 14, 2012, 03:55 PM
That seems like it would be a good UU for a Privateer. Nice Find.

guczy
Mar 14, 2012, 03:55 PM
Maybe they actually meant the Geuzen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Beggars), known in English as "Sea Beggars"?

From Wiki:

"Geuzen (French: Les Gueux, English: the Beggars) was a name assumed by the confederacy of Calvinist Dutch nobles and other malcontents, who from 1566 opposed Spanish rule in the Netherlands. The most successful group of them operated at sea, and so were called Watergeuzen (French: Gueux de mer, English: Sea Beggars). In the Eighty Years' War, the Capture of Brielle by the Watergeuzen in 1572 provided the first foothold on land for the rebels, who would conquer the northern Netherlands and establish an independent Dutch Republic. They can be considered either as privateers or pirates, depending on the circumstances or motivations."

They also fit better with William the Silent.

This actually makes sense. Although only Firaxis knows why this is a better name for the UU than for example "East Indiaman"

Edit: The more i think about it the less i like the idea of having a unit called "Sea Beggar"

durfal
Mar 14, 2012, 04:05 PM
Sea Beggars (in dutch "Watergeuzen" or more often just "Geuzen") are maybe what the german journalist probably mend.
The sea beggars were comprised of adventurers, pirates and patriots (= those fighting against the Spanish rule in the Dutch provinces). At sea they proved to be even more succesful than on land.
For several years their bases of operation included the ports of Emden (on the coast of the Dutch Province Friesland, nowadays in east Frisia in Germany), La Rochelle (on the coast of France) and Dover (on the coast of England). The Sea beggars attacked vessels of almost any nation as well as fishing villages and towns on the coast of the Dutch Provinces. On 10 July 1568 a Spanish fleet was attacked and defeated by the Sea beggars.
Willem van Oranje turned against the empire in the 1560s and helped organize the Dutch struggle for independance. In the last half of the 1560s he tried to form these Sea beggars into an effective and organized fighting force against Spain.
He issued letters of marque and the following orders:

The Sea beggars had to conform to the Articles of War
Each commander was to maintain a minister on board his ship
All prizes were to be divided and distributed by a prescribed rule
Command functions should be occupied by native Dutchmen unless expressly commissioned by the Prince Van Oranje
No persons were to be received on board, either as sailors or soldiers, save folk of good name and fame.

Despite these orders and the letters of marque many vessels of nations other than those of Spain were attacked by the Sea beggars. Even fishing-boats and merchant vessels of the Dutch Provinces were not safe from attack.

This sounds a lot more logical then the Sea Dagger, So I'm guessing it's the Sea Beggars that are ment.

CivOasis
Mar 14, 2012, 04:40 PM
Hm. Will remove the name from the OP, soon.

The_J
Mar 14, 2012, 04:47 PM
I have to say I love how this has been clarified :goodjob:.

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 05:01 PM
That would not make too much sense either, as according to the wikipedia article the Dogger is a small fishing boat, the military version had only 4 cannons, which is half of that of a Sloop

It's better at least. There were coastal ships that were smaller than Sloops (more lake and river going, though). But it's still less than ideal.

ETA: If it's the Sea Beggar, I guess that settles that?

space measurer
Mar 14, 2012, 05:40 PM
It's easy to speculate that the mercantile cities will each have a unique luxury, but that 'jewelery' is a placeholder. Tyre for instance was famous for its purple dye, of which it would make a lot of sense for them to be the only source. Likewise other historic merchant cities had special products found nowhere else...

AbsintheRed
Mar 14, 2012, 05:54 PM
For example Venice with some kind of Glassware as a unique luxury

Louis XXIV
Mar 14, 2012, 05:58 PM
I really don't think they're going to have articles published that mention placeholder luxuries. This is why I don't think each CS will have a unique luxury (the other option being that Tyre has a luxury it wasn't really known for).

snipperrabbit!!
Mar 15, 2012, 12:05 PM
Now, who will produce the chinaware ?

That nerdy kid
Mar 15, 2012, 01:53 PM
my hypothesis is that Atilla's court is a barbarian city, formed from a barb camp that lasted too long. it could not show a capital icon because barb cities can be razed.

Art Grin
Mar 15, 2012, 02:05 PM
my hypothesis is that Atilla's court is a barbarian city, formed from a barb camp that lasted too long. it could not show a capital icon because barb cities can be razed.


It's the Hun capital, they have been confirmed and Attila is on the box art for G&K.

MARDUK80
Mar 16, 2012, 05:00 AM
Attila the Hun (ca. 406–453 AD) was the last and most powerful king of the Huns. He reigned over what was then Europe's largest empire, from 434 until his death. His empire stretched from Central Europe to the Black Sea and from the Danube River to the Baltic. During his rule he was among the direst enemies of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires: he invaded the Balkans twice and encircled Constantinople in the second invasion. He marched through France as far as Orleans before being turned back at Chalons; and he drove the western emperor Valentinian III from his capital at Ravenna in 452. Though his empire died with him on the day of his marriage by choking on his own nosebleed, and he left no remarkable legacy, he has become a legendary figure in the history of Europe. In much of Western Europe, he is remembered as the epitome of cruelty and rapacity. In contrast, some histories lionize him as a great and noble king, and he plays major roles in three Norse sagas.

Attila is known in Western history and tradition as the grim "Scourge of God", and his name has become a byword for cruelty and barbarism. Some of this may arise from a conflation of his traits, in the popular imagination, with those perceived in later steppe warlords such as the Mongol Great Khan Genghis Khan and Tamerlane: all run together as cruel, clever, and sanguinary lovers of battle and pillage. The reality of his character may be more complex. The Huns of Attila's era had been mingling with Roman civilization for some time, largely through the Germanic foederati of the border—so that by the time of Theodosius's embassy in 448, Priscus could identify Hunnic, Gothic, and Latin as the three common languages of the horde. Priscus also recounts his meeting with an eastern Roman captive who had so fully assimilated into the Huns' way of life that he had no desire to return to his former country, and the Byzantine historian's description of Attila's humility and simplicity is unambiguous in its admiration.


Perhaps Scourge of God could be their UA, giving increased attack to cities with Religion?

Louis XXIV
Mar 16, 2012, 09:36 AM
Scourge of God didn't really have to do much with religion aside from Romans believing that God was punishing them by sending the Huns. Although Attila thought it was awesome and actually used it as a title. It might be a cool title for an ability, but it doesn't necessarily have to do with religion.

Alk3Crimson
Mar 16, 2012, 09:38 AM
Scourge of God didn't really have to do much with religion aside from Romans believing that God was punishing them by sending the Huns. Although Attila thought it was awesome and actually used it as a title. It might be a cool title for an ability, but it doesn't necessarily have to do with religion.

Maybe make in a Pantheon belief that gives a combat bonus to any civ that has founded a religion. Sort of symbolizing Pagans vs. Organized Religion.

anandus
Mar 16, 2012, 09:46 AM
Maybe they actually meant the Geuzen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Beggars), known in English as "Sea Beggars"?
Yeah, could be.
So the Dutch have a unit with the English translation of a French name, hmmm? :p

Louis XXIV
Mar 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
They'd probably sound cooler if they kept Geuzen, although, in Civ terms, that's a bit unorthodox.

I'm just hoping it was the article and not Firaxis that called them Sea Daggers.

MadDjinn
Mar 16, 2012, 10:59 AM
Yeah, could be.
So the Dutch have a unit with the English translation of a French name, hmmm? :p

They'd probably sound cooler if they kept Geuzen, although, in Civ terms, that's a bit unorthodox.

I'm just hoping it was the article and not Firaxis that called them Sea Daggers.

I'm sure the Dutch translations will call them what they actually are.

and yeah, it's likely a reviewer 'hearing' the name and mixing up the B/D, which is a rather common phonetic issue wrt non-native language.

CYZ
Mar 16, 2012, 11:14 AM
I'm not sure about the reliability of that German Article. Even besides the Sea Dagger misunderstanding, do you really think the Dutch will not lose happiness when they trade away their luxuries? I mean, that's a pretty insane ability, it means there is never a reason not to trade away luxuries.

I also doubt about Polders ''creating land''. Sure, it has happenend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland). Especially marshes and lakes. But the only way to implement is on marshes. It's impossible to get a workboat on a lake tile and if it applies to coastal tiles it would be hugely overpowered. I'm not even so sure about the tullips to be honest, seems a bit odd to me.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 16, 2012, 11:24 AM
I don't see the UA as being unreasonable. It's not as powerful as the Arabs' Bazaar building which doubles their total luxuries, the Dutch UA only increases the number of luxuries available to trade by 1 per type. The Arabs thus have (2X-1) units to trade wile the Dutch have X and every one else has (X-1). Having Tulips (and a sanctioned monopoly on them) helps the Dutch more than the UA.

I'm convinced that the unique unit is probably called Sea Beggar and the author misheard/misread.

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret what the author says about the Polder. Creating land is a bit too powerful.

ShahJahanII
Mar 16, 2012, 01:35 PM
I don't see the UA as being unreasonable. It's not as powerful as the Arabs' Bazaar building which doubles their total luxuries, the Dutch UA only increases the number of luxuries available to trade by 1 per type. The Arabs thus have (2X-1) units to trade wile the Dutch have X and every one else has (X-1). Having Tulips (and a sanctioned monopoly on them) helps the Dutch more than the UA.


You forget that the Dutch can do this right from the get-go.
One could easily make ~700 gold in the first 70 turns or so, which is essential for any rush, and still be able to expand for science or production.
I can definitely see the Dutch Longswordsman Rush becoming a popular strategy.

Gucumatz
Mar 16, 2012, 01:39 PM
You forget that the Dutch can do this right from the get-go.
One could easily make ~700 gold in the first 70 turns or so, which is essential for any rush, and still be able to expand for science or production.
I can definitely see the Dutch Longswordsman Rush becoming a popular strategy.

Exactly. And this will only be exacerbated in multiplayer.

ShahJahanII
Mar 16, 2012, 01:43 PM
Exactly. And this will only be exacerbated in multiplayer.

I didn't even think about that.
Then again, a smart player wouldn't fall for this tactic in multiplayer, even if the AI (which will probably be improved) will.

Optional
Mar 16, 2012, 01:51 PM
Yes, I believe the Dutch ability will be stronger than the Arabs' bazaar if this ability exists from the start of the game. The bazaar is stronger in itself, but only comes with Currency and it needs to be built first.
The Dutch can perhaps buy another settler from selling their initial luxes, now this would be really strong. But comparable to finding a natural wonder first if you're Spain or finding El Dorado first whoever you are.
Civ 5 does have a habit of handing out strong bonuses. This East Indian Company does seem to fit in in that respect.

Creating new land on the other hand I don't see fitting in well. We can consider the graphic as reliable, things don't get lost in translation in a screenshot. I see a tulip field, how else to explain the purple and yellow colours - but the story around it sounds pretty vague to me.

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 16, 2012, 02:04 PM
Does a Polder need to be an agricultural unlock? It would seem to me that you might need Machinery first (to build the windmill) or Construction (to make the dykes).

As far as trading luxuries right off the bat, They can do it only a little sooner. They still have to build a worker, discover whatever tech the resource requires, and have the worker improve one luxury tile instead of two. That's about 20 turns difference on the speed I play, assuming you have two tiles with the same luxury. Maybe they can get enough money to rush one additional unit at the start.

Gucumatz
Mar 16, 2012, 02:13 PM
I didn't even think about that.
Then again, a smart player wouldn't fall for this tactic in multiplayer, even if the AI (which will probably be improved) will.

Fall for trading? Obviously you wont see gold for lux trades often in multiplayer. But the fact that one can expand extremely early trading for spare luxes only gives the Dutch ability to settle. But its worst will appear in team games. Being able to give your teamate ability to rapidly expand in multi as well will be crazy.

Alk3Crimson
Mar 16, 2012, 02:14 PM
Does a Polder need to be an agricultural unlock? It would seem to me that you might need Machinery first (to build the windmill) or Construction (to make the dykes).

As far as trading luxuries right off the bat, They can do it only a little sooner. They still have to build a worker, discover whatever tech the resource requires, and have the worker improve one luxury tile instead of two. That's about 20 turns difference on the speed I play, assuming you have two tiles with the same luxury. Maybe they can get enough money to rush one additional unit at the start.

Polders do require some sort of machinery to get access to water, and the first polder is said to have been constructed in the 11th century, so Machinery seems to be a decent tech to unlock them.

CYZ
Mar 16, 2012, 04:12 PM
Polders do require some sort of machinery to get access to water, and the first polder is said to have been constructed in the 11th century, so Machinery seems to be a decent tech to unlock them.

Actually economics would probably make the most sense historicly. But machinery makes more sense for gameplay, and economics comes pretty late too.

black213
Mar 16, 2012, 04:28 PM
As far as trading luxuries right off the bat, They can do it only a little sooner. They still have to build a worker, discover whatever tech the resource requires, and have the worker improve one luxury tile instead of two. That's about 20 turns difference on the speed I play, assuming you have two tiles with the same luxury. Maybe they can get enough money to rush one additional unit at the start.

Well, a common tactic on deity is to settle on a mining luxury, tech mining and sell the luxury ASAP.

MadDjinn
Mar 16, 2012, 04:35 PM
I wouldn't really put too much stock into these articles yet. We can know that there's 'something' trade related (lux type thing) for the Dutch, but not the actual UA - until we see it exactly.

The above statement can be made when we see too many possible U*'s for the Dutch, especially when there's potential for two lux related bonuses (tulips and a UA giving all happiness back). That doesn't seem that plausible to me.

and being able to 'keep' all happiness, even if you trade lux's away, just doesn't seem like a reasonably balanced UA (even if the UU/U* sucked). That would actually make the 'common' RA-spam/etc strategies on Deity even easier than in vanilla. I doubt that's meant to happen (making Deity even easier).

MARDUK80
Mar 19, 2012, 07:21 AM
Scourge of God didn't really have to do much with religion aside from Romans believing that God was punishing them by sending the Huns. Although Attila thought it was awesome and actually used it as a title. It might be a cool title for an ability, but it doesn't necessarily have to do with religion.
Maybe make in a Pantheon belief that gives a combat bonus to any civ that has founded a religion. Sort of symbolizing Pagans vs. Organized Religion.


Yeah, you are right. Just to clarify, I meant this UA (or could be a wonder, religion etc. bonus) would give increased attack strength against cities with religion. First spreading your religion to the rival cities then conquering them. Would be a fun play style perhaps :)

fuzzatron717
Apr 05, 2012, 11:28 PM
Prague one of the new city states is a culteral city state if you see on this image far left http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/CivilizationVGodsKings/Civ5GandKScreen2.jpg at this or to be simple the image with the netherlands civ on it.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 06:50 AM
I gotta be honest with those screens, is it just me or are the populations really high? I never saw mmost of my cities reach 20+ pop.

awesome
Apr 06, 2012, 09:24 AM
i'm really just expecting polders to turn marshes into a tile that gives you some food and tulips, maybe 2 or 3 of each

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 02:43 PM
You've never seen populations that high? My populations sore to the 30's the highest population i had was 39

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 03:03 PM
You've never seen populations that high? My populations sore to the 30's the highest population i had was 39

That or I'm just not paying attention, maybe it's because I play on Chieftain...

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 04:04 PM
http://cdn.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Civ5GandKScreen1.jpg another image bascilly netherlands vs Cartherage i'll upload more images later

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 04:08 PM
oh if you're wondering how i know it's carthrage the elephant symbol tells me it's carthrage. they probably conquered the huns cause attila's court is the hun capital most likely.

Eagle Pursuit
Apr 06, 2012, 04:09 PM
I think that screen has been out for a month or so.

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 04:15 PM
I think that screen has been out for a month or so.
may not be new but it's confirmed.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 04:16 PM
I have some info from the first stream

Huns do not have their OWN city list, they have 1 city, Attila's Court, which while not a real city, ephasises that it's the Huns you're dealnig with.

They do found other cities, but their cities name come from lists of other civs, which I presume are game-specific (if Huns are playing against Egypt, Huns will have Egyptian city list) it was also mentioned that the cities are mostly from the bottom of the lists instead of the next in lie (so you won't have Sparta as a Hun city)

j51
Apr 06, 2012, 04:27 PM
Do you mean figuratively not a real city? Because in the ancient screen shot brah brought up - it sure looks real if Carthage is capable of holding on to it.

Eagle Pursuit
Apr 06, 2012, 04:29 PM
If it was historically a city, it hasn't been located. it was more like a semi-permanant encampment.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 04:33 PM
I never heard of a city named Attila's Court.

It's gonna be their capital, and any other city will be taken from other nation's city list.

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 05:49 PM
Austria is in it sounds awesome. oh man i'm going insane waiting for i can't even sleep at night anymore. Austria's ability is maria theresa can marry into city state and the city state litterly becomes austria's like a part of the austrian civilization. which also means the city state of vienna is gone.

GenjiKhan
Apr 06, 2012, 05:54 PM
Beside the UA of Austria,do they mention the UA of other civilizations as well?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 06:02 PM
The Huns start with Animal Husbandry, and a bonus to pastures. They also are able to raise cities faster (which I presume means less food required for a new citizen)

Sorry, it's either Raise or Raze.

Louis XXIV
Apr 06, 2012, 06:03 PM
No, Raze cities faster, as in burn them to the ground.

apocalypse105
Apr 06, 2012, 06:04 PM
No, Raze cities faster, as in burn them to the ground.

haha win domination before renaissance just raise every citie except capital

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 06:06 PM
No, Raze cities faster, as in burn them to the ground.

To be perfectly honest, that's kidna a pointless bonus, why on earth would you want to raze every city except capitals.. they should get a bonus for puppeting instead, but guess that's not Very Hunnic.

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 06:07 PM
I also found out ethiopia will be in. YAY.

Louis XXIV
Apr 06, 2012, 06:12 PM
To be perfectly honest, that's kidna a pointless bonus, why on earth would you want to raze every city except capitals.. they should get a bonus for puppeting instead, but guess that's not Very Hunnic.

It's basically to increase military dominance. You won't have to slow down much from city unhappiness. You can keep pushing to the capital. Then, if you want, you can resettle the area on the charred remains of other cities.

nokmirt
Apr 06, 2012, 06:17 PM
It's basically to increase military dominance. You won't have to slow down much from city unhappiness. You can keep pushing to the capital. Then, if you want, you can resettle the area on the charred remains of other cities.

Yes, you can also better place you cities after you lay waste to the land. Many times they are built in horrible locations anyway.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 06:23 PM
Well, AI does have that ridicolous 3-4 tiles away from another city rule..

I never raze cities, especially since it raises the Policy cap too (and other caps) whilst razing. Oh well, it's not the only part of their AI, and quite frankly, I'm not too bothered :D

Louis XXIV
Apr 06, 2012, 06:31 PM
Actually, razing cities doesn't increase the policy cap.

CivOasis
Apr 06, 2012, 06:33 PM
I see a lot of news came out today.
Can anyone post details on Ethiopia and Austria, and state if the 3rd remaning civ was announced yet?

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 06:35 PM
I see a lot of news came out today.
Can anyone post details on Ethiopia and Austria, and state if the 3rd remaning civ was announced yet?
the 3rd will annouced sunday and read my second comment on this page. I think

Louis XXIV
Apr 06, 2012, 06:54 PM
Can anyone pinpoint when Ethiopia was mentioned?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 07:01 PM
Actually, razing cities doesn't increase the policy cap.

Hm.. there was a thread about an issue with razing... it still increased something.. i don't know..... still.. I never raze cities xD I don't find any reason to do it, playing on Chieftain is piece of cake.

CivOasis
Apr 06, 2012, 07:06 PM
Razing increases unhappiness.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 06, 2012, 07:22 PM
Razing increases unhappiness.

No, no, it was like a glitch/issue/bug, I don't know, I don't remember

Like I said it was in a thread that I can't find, in which the OP stated that something was raised when it shouldn't have raised (I think it was culture, but if culture didn't raise then I think it was national wonders being unable to build because the razed city wasn't building)

fuzzatron717
Apr 06, 2012, 07:35 PM
i found it on wikipedia i know it's not the most reliable source but they don't let something on unless there's proof/or something backs up your claim.( reply to Louis XXIV)

The_J
Apr 06, 2012, 07:37 PM
Can anyone pinpoint when Ethiopia was mentioned?

It seems only in the one thread in the 2K forums, and not actually in the stream (but I'm not yet done with it).

MadDjinn
Apr 06, 2012, 07:39 PM
It seems only in the one thread in the 2K forums, and not actually in the stream (but I'm not yet done with it).

too bad the comments from the stream aren't lined up with the actual stream.

The Demo at PAX has both Austria and Ethiopia in it. It's also how it got leaked that Carthage gets free harbours.

The_J
Apr 06, 2012, 07:41 PM
I'm not yet at that point, will see :D.

SuperWaffle247
Apr 06, 2012, 07:48 PM
The UAs for Austria, Carthage, and the Huns seem really quite unique. Hopefully the other UAs are tweaked a little bit to be as dramatic.

theadder
Apr 07, 2012, 03:42 AM
I gotta be honest with those screens, is it just me or are the populations really high? I never saw mmost of my cities reach 20+ pop.

I tend to see mid-40s on Immortal.

Perhaps you are not pushing farming as much as you might; that's my thought.

Too many trading posts spoils the broth.

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 03:50 AM
It seems only in the one thread in the 2K forums, and not actually in the stream (but I'm not yet done with it).Indeed, it comes from this (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?119093-Civ-V-Gods-amp-Kings-at-PAX) thread at 2K forums.

This is what he mentioned, before the stream:
Carthage: Can cross mountains. Free harbors in their cities.

Huns: Raze cities at double speed. Start with Animal Husbandry. +1 production from pastures.

Destroyers are melee. Battleships are ranged.

Ethiopia is confirmed.

Austria is confirmed.
As you can see some of it is confirmed in the stream (eg Austria), so I think we can safely say the rest is also correct.

D712
Apr 07, 2012, 04:08 AM
Austria is in it sounds awesome. oh man i'm going insane waiting for i can't even sleep at night anymore. Austria's ability is maria theresa can marry into city state and the city state litterly becomes austria's like a part of the austrian civilization. which also means the city state of vienna is gone.

^ This.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 07, 2012, 06:33 AM
I tend to see mid-40s on Immortal.

Perhaps you are not pushing farming as much as you might; that's my thought.

Too many trading posts spoils the broth.

Hm, probably, I always automate my workers xD

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 10:46 AM
The Carthaginian UU's are the African forest Elephant and a ship.

Uberfrog
Apr 07, 2012, 11:04 AM
The Carthaginian UU's are the African forest Elephant and a ship.

I'm glad to see some more naval UUs being included where appropriate (same with the Byzantine Dromon, which I am well pleased with).

People may complain about the Carthaginian elephants, but after the mountain-crossing ability was revealed, was there really any doubt about this? :P

The Carthaginians may not have used elephants with any particular success historically, but I have to admit that this is more interesting than yet another unique horseman.

Montov
Apr 07, 2012, 11:12 AM
The Carthaginian UU's (...) a ship.

Ah yes, the famous Carthaginian Ship. Replaces Boat. Has the ability to float on water but is vulnerable to Aquaman. :king:

The_J
Apr 07, 2012, 11:13 AM
:lol:

Well, until we have more info, this offers at least a base for speculations :).
Sad that we don't know more yet :/.

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 11:17 AM
Yeah, if I heard it correctly that's what she said, 'a ship' *shrugs*

MadDjinn
Apr 07, 2012, 11:19 AM
Ah yes, the famous Carthaginian Ship. Replaces Boat. Has the ability to float on water but is vulnerable to Aquaman. :king:

Carthage had a massive navy compared to Rome, and Rome only figured out better boats via reverse engineering Carthage boats.

So yeah, a boat makes sense (also goes with those harbours).

Gameplay wise, it adds to the 'viable' AI civs to play against on water maps, which can't be bad.

for random Wikipedia:

"Originally based on Tyrian designs with two or three levels of rowers that were perfected by generations of Phoenician seamanship[citation needed], it also included quadriremes and quinqueremes, warships with four and five ranks of rowers on no more than three levels (see galley). These latter ships were much larger than their predecessors. Archaeological investigations confirm the presence of ship-sheds on the island in the circular harbour reported by ancient sources."

Montov
Apr 07, 2012, 11:59 AM
Yeah, if I heard it correctly that's what she said, 'a ship' *shrugs*

I heard it too, I was just kidding. More ships is good. Naval warfare is going to be great.

cuc
Apr 07, 2012, 12:07 PM
According to people at Something Awful who attended at PAX:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3338705&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=507
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3476996

Ethiopia is in, with Haile Selasse as leader. Very defensive-oriented; one of their traits is a 20% combat bonus against larger civilizations and their special unit (industrial era?) gets a bonus the closer they are to the capital

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 12:11 PM
To quote the whole post:
Carthage's traits: free harbor in every coastal city. Units can cross mountains after the first great general is produced, but lose 50 hp if they end their turn on a mountain tile.

One of the Hun traits is "uses city names from other in-game civs"

Ethiopia is in, with Haile Selasse as leader. Very defensive-oriented; one of their traits is a 20% combat bonus against larger civilizations and their special unit (industrial era?) gets a bonus the closer they are to the capitalThe Carthaginian second bit is also very interesting.

Gucumatz
Apr 07, 2012, 12:11 PM
QUinquerme or however its spelled is my guess for the Ship.

And perfect, a turtling civ without outrageous science boosts!

Ethiopia will be a fun civ for me when I am not using the Maya

D0MIN1C
Apr 07, 2012, 12:27 PM
QUinquerme or however its spelled is my guess for the Ship.

And perfect, a turtling civ without outrageous science boosts!

Ethiopia will be a fun civ for me when I am not using the Maya

Quinquireme is a Roman ship isn't it?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 07, 2012, 12:32 PM
Wow, the new abilities are really unique.

MadDjinn
Apr 07, 2012, 12:36 PM
Quinquireme is a Roman ship isn't it?

carthage made them first and the Romans just badly copied them, kind of like most inventions.

Gucumatz
Apr 07, 2012, 12:38 PM
Quinquireme is a Roman ship isn't it?

Possibly... not my forte of knowledge about the old Carthaginian/Roman world.

Edit: Looking at above post guess I got it right.

Gucumatz
Apr 07, 2012, 12:47 PM
Kind of surprised they didn't go with a faith based civ for Ethiopia though.

So that leaves us atm with only 2 faith based civs in an expansion based on faith mostly. Maybe Spain will have been changed... but its surprisingly little.

DonStamos
Apr 07, 2012, 12:51 PM
Kind of surprised they didn't go with a faith based civ for Ethiopia though.

So that leaves us atm with only 2 faith based civs in an expansion based on faith mostly. Maybe Spain will have been changed... but its surprisingly little.

I bet the Aztec UA gets changed so that enemy units killed grant faith instead of culture.

blackcatatonic
Apr 07, 2012, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't rule out Ethiopia having some sort of faith bonus as well as the defensive stuff - we haven't heard everything yet...

CivOasis
Apr 07, 2012, 01:02 PM
Alright, will update the OP soon, it seems we have lots of new information out.

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 01:03 PM
I wouldn't rule out Ethiopia having some sort of faith bonus as well as the defensive stuff - we haven't heard everything yet...Exactly.
We know a trait and one UU.

So there still could be a religious unit or building.
I vote for a rastafari :p (a real one, not a run-of-the-mill reggae-dude, but one from Shashamane)

Edit:
About the UU. In civ4 the UU was a musketman replacement, the oromo warrior

awesome
Apr 07, 2012, 01:21 PM
carthage made them first and the Romans just badly copied them, kind of like most inventions.
i don 't know, i've always heard that the romans invented the quinquereme, even though it's really an innovation, more than an invention. you can really say the same thing about the quadrireme, which i know for a fact was carthaginian.



I vote for a rastafari :p (a real one, not a run-of-the-mill reggae-dude, but one from Shashamane)

maybe ethiopia will get bob marley as a unique cultural advisor.

Pouakai
Apr 07, 2012, 01:23 PM
History is written by the victors. Rome wants you to believe they invented it, but it's actually Carthage

CivOasis
Apr 07, 2012, 01:24 PM
History is written by the victors. Rome wants you to believe they invented it, but it's actually Carthage

Like most parts of history :p

Louis XXIV
Apr 07, 2012, 01:27 PM
The Carthaginian UU's are the African forest Elephant and a ship.

OK, I'll miss the Numidians. My guess is the ship is a Quinquereme (really, only logical choice).

Carthage did like their Elephants, but they had mixed success with them. Numidians were always used effectively until they defected and joined the Romans (in which case, they were good for Rome). That being said, if they call it a Forest Elephant (or something like that) and not "Hannibal's Elephants" I'll be ok with it. I'm curious what the Elephant will replace. Probably a Horseman, but still.

ETA: I don't think Carthage technically invented the Quinquereme. I think it was a Greek Kingdom. But they perfected it. Rome merely copied it. It's also good to have Carthage's naval dominance represented in game.

awesome
Apr 07, 2012, 01:29 PM
History is written by the victors. Rome wants you to believe they invented it, but it's actually Carthage

but where are your sources, though? anybody can make anything up. without sources, i can say that, i don't know, mayans are descended from egyptians and the reason why i know this is because they both built pyramids and had tons of gods.
all you really have to do is take a quadrireme and add some extra seats and paddles and you've basically got yourself a quinquereme.

anandus
Apr 07, 2012, 01:30 PM
Yeah, I'd also like swift Numidian cavalry.
Oh, well, maybe in the next expansions when every civ gets an extra UU/UB? *wishful thinking*

awesome
Apr 07, 2012, 01:33 PM
only if japan gets mecha godzilla.

SpaceJesus
Apr 07, 2012, 01:37 PM
but where are your sources, though? anybody can make anything up. without sources, i can say that, i don't know, mayans are descended from egyptians and the reason why i know this is because they both built pyramids and had tons of gods.
all you really have to do is take a quadrireme and add some extra seats and paddles and you've basically got yourself a quinquereme.


Recipe for historical discussions on the internet forums

1. go to wikipedia

2. read wikipedia article

3. come back to forum

4. paraphrase wikipedia article to make it seem like it's your own info

Please don't troll around.

Louis XXIV
Apr 07, 2012, 01:39 PM
but where are your sources, though? anybody can make anything up. without sources, i can say that, i don't know, mayans are descended from egyptians and the reason why i know this is because they both built pyramids and had tons of gods.
all you really have to do is take a quadrireme and add some extra seats and paddles and you've basically got yourself a quinquereme.

Even Roman sources didn't claim to invent the Quinquereme. In fact, if you look at Polybius, they make it clear they copied off of Carthaginian designs (the famous story is a shipwreck they copied).

awesome
Apr 07, 2012, 01:52 PM
Even Roman sources didn't claim to invent the Quinquereme. In fact, if you look at Polybius, they make it clear they copied off of Carthaginian designs (the famous story is a shipwreck they copied).

fair enough. i always thought it was a quadrireme they copied to make the quinquereme.

Louis XXIV
Apr 07, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quadrireme actually had a fairly short shelf-life. It wasn't long until it shifted to a Quinquereme instead. There's a book by Richard Miles called "Carthage Must be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Civilization" that goes decently into this:

In all its dealings with Carthage after the defeat of Pyrrhus, Rome clearly considered itself to be an equal. Only in one area did this Roman perception of parity with Carthage not exist: the sea. Polybius described the Carthaginian position at the beginning of the First Punic War as one of 'undisputed command of the sea.' The Carthaginians had been the pacesetters in naval technological innovation throughout the fourth century BC. They had been the first to develop the quadrireme, which was both bigger and more powerful than the Trireme, the ship that had dominated naval warfare for the previous 200 years. Ineed, a veritable arms race developed, with differed Mediterranean powers vying with each other to develop larger and larger warships, to the extent that some of these craft were so huge that they were of no use at all for naval warfare.

However, the quadrireme was fairly quickly replaced by the larger Quinquereme, which was first developed under the aegis of Carthage's old enemy, Dionysius of Syracuse ... Although they were not the original inventors of the quinquereme, the Carthaginains quickly adopted it and did much to improve its original design. It is thought that one of these innovations was to house all three levels of oars and their rowers in a single oar box that protected them from the hull. This meant that the hull was exceptionally wide and could also be strengthened.

nokmirt
Apr 07, 2012, 02:26 PM
Quadrireme actually had a fairly short shelf-life. It wasn't long until it shifted to a Quinquereme instead. There's a book by Richard Miles called "Carthage Must be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Civilization" that goes decently into this:

I have a book called Battle at Sea by R.G. Grant (I believe), which goes into some decent detail about sea battles between Rome and Carthage during the First Punic War. That should be able to shed some light on the kind of ships Carthage used as well.

It says the Quinquereme were generally used as the flagships of a fleet. By both Romans and Carthaginians. Surrounding the flagship would be triremes and quadriremes. After the Romans captured a Carthaginian Quinquereme, which they copied. They began building their own version which was heavier, though Carthaginian versions were better built.

fuzzatron717
Apr 07, 2012, 02:48 PM
they need to release more information about the maya like UA and UU and/or UB or UI

ShahJahanII
Apr 08, 2012, 08:45 AM
It seems odd that Carthage and Byzantium should get an early ship. I hope that they are at least in different eras.

Louis XXIV
Apr 08, 2012, 08:57 AM
Unless they add a new medieval ship (or ancient ship), it'll likely replace the same ship. However, one could be ranged and the other melee.

Art Grin
Apr 08, 2012, 08:57 AM
It's possible that Carthage get's a melee ship, while the Byzantine Dromon is a ranged ship.

Louis XXIV
Apr 08, 2012, 09:05 AM
Great minds? :D

I think that's quite logical. That being said, I do think they should at least consider adding a separate ship for the era. It's the only one that doesn't quite seem to have one just yet. You have Privateers and Frigates, Destroyers and Battleships, but just a Trireme.

Personally, I think they should add a Sloop but that's neither here nor there.

Art Grin
Apr 08, 2012, 09:09 AM
Great minds? :D

I think that's quite logical. That being said, I do think they should at least consider adding a separate ship for the era. It's the only one that doesn't quite seem to have one just yet. You have Privateers and Frigates, Destroyers and Battleships, but just a Trireme.

Personally, I think they should add a Sloop but that's neither here nor there.

Great Minds indeed!:D

I think they should add the Galley as a ranged ship and make the Trireme a melee ship. Maybe a medieval pair of ships could be added as well, something like a Cog and Galeas/Galiot.

Louis XXIV
Apr 08, 2012, 09:15 AM
Yeah, that's probably what I'd suggest too :D

We haven't done a unit count in awhile so it's hard to tell if there's room for these additions or not (what with the added WWI units).

Uberfrog
Apr 08, 2012, 09:56 AM
I've felt that a medieval warship has been lacking for a while: although with 100HP units we shouldn't see the only naval ship available being one-shotted by crossbows, it's a ridiculous leap to go from triremes to frigates with nothing between.

A ranged dromon though? Greek fire is very much a melee weapon, being pumped out of a siphon rather than rocketed other great range. :P

nokmirt
Apr 08, 2012, 09:58 AM
I've felt that a medieval warship has been lacking for a while: although with 100HP units we shouldn't see the only naval ship available being one-shotted by crossbows, it's a ridiculous leap to go from triremes to frigates with nothing between.

A ranged dromon though? Greek fire is very much a melee weapon, being pumped out of a siphon rather than rocketed other great range. :P

Ed Beach should be looking into that issue. I have a feeling they will have a medieval ship added. But will it be ranged or melee? Also the other question I have, are embarked units ranged or melee when they defend themselves?

Pangur Bán
Apr 08, 2012, 01:07 PM
Will the new XP come with the earlier DLC?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 08, 2012, 01:19 PM
Will the new XP come with the earlier DLC?

Only with Spain and Spain only. No other DLC.

TheArchduke
Apr 08, 2012, 01:47 PM
Austria.

I am just happy now. For 1-2 days..

CivOasis
Apr 08, 2012, 06:42 PM
WHOO! Long-awaited update time. Am I correct in understanding that they kept the final civ under wraps, still?

Pouakai
Apr 08, 2012, 06:47 PM
Yep, they're gonna tease us. Eyes on Facebook and twitter, people. They've said they'll be releasing new bits of information over the coming weeks

awesome
Apr 08, 2012, 06:53 PM
Only with Spain and Spain only. No other DLC.

i think i read somewhere that it's coming with mongolia, too, but that may have just been wikipedia.

CivOasis
Apr 08, 2012, 06:54 PM
What I could find is up, anything confirmed that is missing, even if it is just names and the kin?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 08, 2012, 07:01 PM
i think i read somewhere that it's coming with mongolia, too, but that may have just been wikipedia.

You do realise Mongolia is free? Thus it doesn't technically count as a full DLC.

Pouakai
Apr 08, 2012, 07:04 PM
Ethiopian capital is Addis Ababa, their UU recieves combat boosts the closer it is to said capital, and their UA is a bonus when fighting larger empires

blackcatatonic
Apr 08, 2012, 07:08 PM
According to this post on the 2K forums, the Mayan UU is the Atlatl:

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?118092-Gods-amp-Kings-Super-Sleuthing&p=1525766#post1525766

CivOasis
Apr 08, 2012, 07:18 PM
Updated.

Gucumatz
Apr 08, 2012, 07:20 PM
Greg's interview about the Maya was too short sadly :(

Keejus
Apr 08, 2012, 07:20 PM
The Austrian capital is (obviously) Vienna. I think they did show it in the Carthage video

D0MIN1C
Apr 09, 2012, 05:18 AM
Oh hey, CivOasis, its not Columbo, bot Colombo xD

Optional
Apr 09, 2012, 06:14 AM
You do realise Mongolia is free? Thus it doesn't technically count as a full DLC.Mongolia is free, everybody got that added.
Although in your game registry it sits in the DLC folder, that makes it technically DLC. For instance, in Gods & Kings you'll have the opportunity to turn off DLC, so you should be able to turn off Mongolia if you would want, since it's in the DLC folder.

anandus
Apr 09, 2012, 06:16 AM
Greg's interview about the Maya was too short sadly :(Where can I find this interview?

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 09, 2012, 06:20 AM
Mongolia is free, everybody got that added.
Although in your game registry it sits in the DLC folder, that makes it technically DLC. For instance, in Gods & Kings you'll have the opportunity to turn off DLC, so you should be able to turn off Mongolia if you would want, since it's in the DLC folder.

True... but it's not a DLC in the fact that you paid for it.. technically speaking.. patches are DLCs too.

anandus
Apr 09, 2012, 06:25 AM
True... but it's not a DLC in the fact that you paid for it.. So is Spain a DLC or not? :p