View Full Version : New techs?


Putmalk
Feb 17, 2012, 11:12 AM
Something odd struck me. The blog post very specifically numbers exactly how much of new things will be in ("27 new units, 13 new buildings, 9 new wonders, and 9 new playable civilizations"), but leaves out technologies? In the post it does say: "Gods & Kings will add more techs, units, buildings, Wonders, and playable Civilizations", but there's no number attached to it, and I can't find any new techs in the screenshots.

So, speculation time?

What kind/how many new techs do you think will be in the game?

I'd just throw some out there:
1. Calculus
2. Drama
3. Music (although Acoustics is already in...)
4. Espionage
5. Feudalism
6. Piracy
7. Colonization
8. Medicine (read: not Penicilin, but some Industrial-era stuff)

Any other thoughts?

Androrc the Orc
Feb 17, 2012, 11:48 AM
I like some of those, but I think "Medicine" is a bad name for an industrial-era technology. Medicine existed much earlier than that. I think in fact that choice of name "Penicillin" for the tech in Civ5 was rather good.

Fern
Feb 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
Some Classical Era techs would be great, seriously, the current Classical Era is just too short.

Especially if you consider how many things were developed by the Greeks and the Romans.

Putmalk
Feb 17, 2012, 12:41 PM
Pulling from my own mod here, and yes, more Classical techs are needed, I was thinking "Code of Laws, Ballistics, Stirrups (medieval?)".

Morningcalm
Feb 17, 2012, 12:47 PM
Bring back Publishing and Agriculture (lol), and give starting techs to civs. After all, Publishing and Agriculture were going to be in the original. No reason not to put them back in.

Fern
Feb 17, 2012, 12:49 PM
Pulling from my own mod here, and yes, more Classical techs are needed, I was thinking "Code of Laws, Ballistics, Stirrups (medieval?)".

Now that you mention it, Code of Laws seems rather obvious. Maybe a new prereq. for the Courthouse? :)

As for the others, I'm not sure, but they do look like interesting possibilities.

bcaiko
Feb 17, 2012, 12:55 PM
Some Future Techs would be nice, other than those needed for Science Victory. A NUCLEAR DEFENSE SHIELD of some sort in the Future Era is, IMHO, a necessary add.

Pouakai
Feb 17, 2012, 12:56 PM
Calculus, Ballistics and Publishing are all in the files, wouldn't be suprised to see them included. I'm also hoping to see a couple Rennaisance religious techs, mainly because as it stands with my mods if I'm doing a religious one at that time I have to dump it in Theology or Acoustics, each one now has about nine wonders when you take all of ours into account

black213
Feb 17, 2012, 01:06 PM
Maybe Cartography. Map trading?

Putmalk
Feb 17, 2012, 01:21 PM
Maybe Cartography. Map trading?

I would like this. It could also give +1 Sight to ships.

Come to think of it, would Map trading be one of those "improved diplomacy" features? That would make sense to include Cartography if it was.

GeoModder
Feb 17, 2012, 01:42 PM
I'm guessing an extra tech regarding flight.
Since "Flight" in CiV - G&K's seem to have bi/tri-planes as units, monoplanes need another spot. Unless of course fighters have also moved to Radar (with bombers). Also, the aircraft carrier is moved.

Androrc the Orc
Feb 17, 2012, 01:57 PM
Bring back Publishing and Agriculture (lol), and give starting techs to civs. After all, Publishing and Agriculture were going to be in the original. No reason not to put them back in.

Agriculture is in the original. Every civ starts with it.

Putmalk
Feb 17, 2012, 02:06 PM
I'm guessing an extra tech regarding flight.
Since "Flight" in CiV - G&K's seem to have bi/tri-planes as units, monoplanes need another spot. Unless of course fighters have also moved to Radar (with bombers). Also, the aircraft carrier is moved.

I'm guessing we'll be seeing an expanded Industrial and Modern era too. (lots of new units).

What differentiates Biplanes and Fighters? Their engines and designs? Maybe Radial Engines?

Scarpa
Feb 17, 2012, 02:26 PM
I'm guessing we'll be seeing an expanded Industrial and Modern era too. (lots of new units).

What differentiates Biplanes and Fighters? Their engines and designs? Maybe Radial Engines?

Aerodynamics?

spider1
Feb 17, 2012, 02:47 PM
Maybe Cartography. Map trading?

Agreed, that would be a good one. I'd love to see the return of map trading.

elprofesor
Feb 18, 2012, 04:35 AM
Agreed, that would be a good one. I'd love to see the return of map trading.

Thirded!

nokmirt
Feb 18, 2012, 04:41 AM
Ah! let the speculation begin I love it.

Describer
Feb 18, 2012, 04:57 AM
Standard game is too small for map trading to be viable. They'll have to increase its size for this. Although, they'd better do it anyway, because 11 religions is more than there are civs in standard game.

I hope that classic era techs will be doubled, and era itself will be as long as medieval one.

anandus
Feb 18, 2012, 05:43 AM
I'm also hoping there'll be more classic techs, the classical period is way to short.

Maybe will have some religious-oriented techs?

Does anyone know how many new techs there'll be?

I'm guessing an extra tech regarding flight.
Since "Flight" in CiV - G&K's seem to have bi/tri-planes as units, monoplanes need another spot. Unless of course fighters have also moved to Radar (with bombers). Also, the aircraft carrier is moved.Maybe jet engines?

Fern
Feb 18, 2012, 06:02 AM
Does anyone know how many new techs there'll be?

That's the thing, I can't find an article which states the no. of new techs.


Maybe jet engines?

Or maybe Advanced Flight, like in Civ IV? But I'd rather they find a new name for this tech instead of simply adding "advanced" before another tech name.

apocalypse105
Feb 18, 2012, 06:18 AM
Proparly some religious techs like divine right, meditation and so on

MantaRevan
Feb 18, 2012, 07:05 AM
Chances are that a good amount of the techs will have to relate to espionage and religion(no duh).

Louis XXIV
Feb 18, 2012, 08:35 AM
Agreed, that would be a good one. I'd love to see the return of map trading.

The problem with map trading is it kills a lot of the fun of exploration. You only need to reach your neighbor and then buy a map.

elprofesor
Feb 18, 2012, 08:52 AM
Hum... maybe if it only revealed whatever they see with their cities at that precise moment? I mean, it's really annoying to have to screen their whole empire with a scout to get an idea of their size and geographical frontiers. The point of map trading would be more to reduce micro than to get a strong benefit out of it (sort of like satellites: you hardly benefit at all from it since it comes so late, but at least that way you know that you don't have to explore every single hex, since they will eventually be revealed).

apocalypse105
Feb 18, 2012, 08:54 AM
The problem with map trading is it kills a lot of the fun of exploration. You only need to reach your neighbor and then buy a map.

If it comes pretty late you allready explored much of the territory around you and you're neigbhours but not the rest So it isn't a b ig deal

I remember that in civ 4 it came pretty late

elprofesor
Feb 18, 2012, 09:03 AM
It didn't came that late actually. You usually had explored only your home continent, and some bits here and there. I remember becoming the map broker whenever I got the corresponding tech: exchange your map for whoever-is-the-furthest-from-you 's map, then sell his map to everybody else, basically getting the World's map and some money in the deal :satan:

CYZ
Feb 18, 2012, 09:18 AM
All I really really want is a larger classical era.

black213
Feb 18, 2012, 09:26 AM
All I really really want is a larger classical era.

I do expect the classical era will expand, due to many religion techs should be in that era in particular.

apocalypse105
Feb 18, 2012, 10:21 AM
I do expect the classical era will expand, due to many religion techs should be in that era in particular.


I would like to see a other dominant resource in the classical era then Iron or at least a milita unit that doesn't require any resources

MantaRevan
Feb 18, 2012, 10:55 AM
The problem with map trading is it kills a lot of the fun of exploration. You only need to reach your neighbor and then buy a map.

I totally agree. And it's a lot more realistic without trading, although you have to admit that taking it out makes things annoying. I'd suggest re-introducing it, but nerfing it to the point where it doesn't obsolete the point of exploring.

Androrc the Orc
Feb 18, 2012, 11:56 AM
I totally agree. And it's a lot more realistic without trading, although you have to admit that taking it out makes things annoying. I'd suggest re-introducing it, but nerfing it to the point where it doesn't obsolete the point of exploring.

Something like that, yes. We could have "Map Exchange Agreements" like we have Research Agreements. They would last a certain amount of turns, while revealing tiles (that the other civilization knows and you don't) one at a time and in a semi-random manner (tiles that are adjacent to ones you already know would have a greater chance of being chosen for discovery).

nokmirt
Feb 18, 2012, 02:06 PM
The problem with map trading is it kills a lot of the fun of exploration. You only need to reach your neighbor and then buy a map.

I agree. I used to hate it when all of the sudden the whole world is explored in the blink of an eye. Then suddenly the game became a lot slower.

Bechhold
Feb 18, 2012, 03:34 PM
The Classical Age and the Industrial Age need to be lengthened in my opinion so hopefully the new techs will be added for those Eras. Also I hope it's more than ten techs.

Nirosi
Feb 18, 2012, 04:25 PM
For Industrial Age it could be Torpedo for MTB's & Submarines

nokmirt
Feb 18, 2012, 07:56 PM
For Industrial Age it could be Torpedo for MTB's & Submarines

All new WWI era units. The Industrial Age will be lengthened for sure.

MantaRevan
Feb 18, 2012, 08:05 PM
For Industrial Age it could be Torpedo for MTB's & Submarines

I would prefer that we not have single techs that serve no other purpose than to enable a single unit. We don't need Civ 3 Ironclads all over again.

anandus
Feb 19, 2012, 01:29 AM
All new WWI era units. The Industrial Age will be lengthened for sure.But they could fit the units in with existing techs.
Don't forget that the industrial age is already 3 tiers long (like the other periods).

Classic only has 1 tier and Medieval has 2 tiers, so they'd be first up for new techs I'd think.
Religion could fill an some techs in those periods, Monotheism, Divine Right, Scholasticism, etc.

Camikaze
Feb 19, 2012, 05:43 AM
But they could fit the units in with existing techs.
Don't forget that the industrial age is already 3 tiers long (like the other periods).

Can they? The late game already seems pretty rushed in terms of how long your units last. There's not much gap between fighters and jet fighters, without adding another unit in there as well.

nokmirt
Feb 19, 2012, 08:00 AM
But they could fit the units in with existing techs.
Don't forget that the industrial age is already 3 tiers long (like the other periods).

Classic only has 1 tier and Medieval has 2 tiers, so they'd be first up for new techs I'd think.
Religion could fill an some techs in those periods, Monotheism, Divine Right, Scholasticism, etc.

They could but I'd doubt it. Because it would then be way too compact. They should spread it out a bit to make it more interesting. If they do its no big deal. I can seperate things a bit via xml.

I know that the classic period should have two tiers it is too short. If they stretched the industrial age to 4 that would be fine by me. Tech advances should need time to develop as we get closer to the future. You want to make sure you actually have a chance to use certain units at least for a bit.

I would prefer that we not have single techs that serve no other purpose than to enable a single unit. We don't need Civ 3 Ironclads all over again.

Here again, I would not mind that if it helps the ironclad have its day in the sun as it should. Right now the ironclad is rather useless. This is why the tech tree should be spread out a bit. The use of technology should never suffer the player (all tech should be useful), or else do not put it in. If you gain tech or units it/they should have a purpose and be able to be used before it/they become obsolete. Otherwise why put it in to begin with? Though the tech should be accompanied by something that drives a unit. For example, with the ironclad, add a coaling station or something of the like. This way the unit has a purpose and something that is needed, the procurement of coal to drive it. If they do not add something to go along with a certain unit, add something instead that will benefit the world at the time of that units use in the game.

Civ to me has always been a game where things do not need to be rushed. Although, one problem with the game over the years has been a very compact tech tree. Because of this, when the game is modded you get like a thousand techs. Modders sometimes go a bit overboard, indeed a lot overboard in some cases. I believe there should be a balance, between getting a tech and the ability to build new units, buildings, etc. And at the same time, being able to actually have time to build and use these units, buildings, etc, before being rushed into the next higher level of tech. Why rush the game is not going anywhere? If technology is spread out over more tiers for each era in the techtree that is fine by me. As long as each unit developed has a purpose, and the time for the player to learn by, as well as benefit by its abilities.

anandus
Feb 19, 2012, 08:15 AM
Can they? The late game already seems pretty rushed in terms of how long your units last. There's not much gap between fighters and jet fighters, without adding another unit in there as well.That's true, but increasing the tech cost would help, but I guess you're right.

Androrc the Orc
Feb 19, 2012, 08:36 AM
The problem with the "Ironclads" technology in Civ3 was mostly, IIRC, that it was a dead-end technology, not that it was a single-unit technology.

Louis XXIV
Feb 19, 2012, 08:39 AM
Well, I think both are indicative of poor design.

Putmalk
Feb 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
I like some of those, but I think "Medicine" is a bad name for an industrial-era technology. Medicine existed much earlier than that. I think in fact that choice of name "Penicillin" for the tech in Civ5 was rather good.

Sanitation?

GoodSarmatian
Feb 19, 2012, 05:22 PM
I'd like a longer classical age, right now it's really short and sometimes only lasts one turn (complete the Great Library when you get Philosophy -> Civil Service). They should fill the Cataphract gap and add a new technology between Horseback Riding and Chivalry that adds late antiquiy heavy cavalry. One reason for this would be the addition of Byzantion. They should have Cataphratcs as a UU, but they're neither suited to replace Horsemen (too early) or Knights (too late).
To keep Horsemen useful, they could get a bonus against ranged units, and the research cost for Horseback Riding should be lowered.

Putmalk
Feb 19, 2012, 05:45 PM
They should also ease the naval gap from Ancient Era to Renaissance Era. Perhaps a Classical era ship called Quinquereme, or a Medieval Ship called War Galley. War Galley can't cross the oceans but could have higher strength and speed, but Quinqueremes would not have faster speed but higher strength.

I'd like a longer classical age, right now it's really short and sometimes only lasts one turn (complete the Great Library when you get Philosophy -> Civil Service). They should fill the Cataphract gap and add a new technology between Horseback Riding and Chivalry that adds late antiquiy heavy cavalry. One reason for this would be the addition of Byzantion. They should have Cataphratcs as a UU, but they're neither suited to replace Horsemen (too early) or Knights (too late).
To keep Horsemen useful, they could get a bonus against ranged units, and the research cost for Horseback Riding should be lowered.

Stirrups (or Saddle) would fill this gap and the unit would be called Clibanarii (yes, that's also from my Ancient World mod). Clibanarii are essentially Cataphracts. Cataphracts would replace the Clibanarii.

Clibanarii are "heavy cavalry". You could also call them that too, but that would be weird when there's also "Cavalry" in the Renaissance era.

I also wouldn't mind some dead-end (or optional) technologies. But they have award powerful units, to reward the player for spending turns there. Obviously they'd be skipped for Science Victory civs, but the more options, the better.

Androrc the Orc
Feb 19, 2012, 06:08 PM
Sanitation?

Sanitation is a decent name also.

Bechhold
Feb 19, 2012, 08:35 PM
Why not just Medicine but in Tiers, as someone said Medicine has been arounc since the dawn of time and progressed through advancements. Antibiotics etc.

MantaRevan
Feb 19, 2012, 08:46 PM
I'd be a bit surprised if we don't see the return of polytheism, monotheism, or divine right at least.

Hammer Rabbi
Feb 19, 2012, 08:51 PM
Irrigation, Alchemy, and Sonar.

and a late game Wonder -- The Strategic Defense Initiative (otherwise dubbed 'Star Wars' in the 80's in reference to the movies): Allows Guided Missiles to strike anywhere on the map. I'd place it in Satellites tech. +1 culture, specialist slots: 1 engineer.

Louis XXIV
Feb 19, 2012, 08:52 PM
I'm not entirely convinced religion will come in techs. A lot of the "social achievements" in previous games were removed from the main tree to the policies (although not all, See Theology). I think it's possible religious development will occur entirely independent of techs (except where you need to get the tech for a building).

Gucumatz
Feb 19, 2012, 08:58 PM
I wonder if they will use some of the icons that didn't make it into the vanilla game for techs like Calculus if they are included.

MantaRevan
Feb 19, 2012, 09:01 PM
I don't think alchemy can pass itself off as a technology. But hey, neither can monotheism, and that's been in almost every civ game.

Hammer Rabbi
Feb 20, 2012, 02:02 AM
i think alchemy would definitely be in the classical or medieval era but certainly not later. and theism deserves a spot in social policies but all theisms (mono, poly) fall under philosophy which is already a tech.

Androrc the Orc
Feb 20, 2012, 05:02 AM
I don't think alchemy can pass itself off as a technology. But hey, neither can monotheism, and that's been in almost every civ game.

Alchemy provided an advanced in knowledge of chemistry, even if it also contained a large amount of superstition. It's from alchemy that chemistry was born, in fact.

Civsassin
Feb 20, 2012, 05:54 AM
There are a few broken tech paths that should be fixed. First, you shouldn't be able to get to infantry without first getting rifleman. Second, the time between muskets and rifles is also very short.

How many players go down the bottom path; the nuclear path? If you are going down the diplomacy or science victory paths, you don't even need to go down the nuclear path.

Hammer Rabbi
Feb 20, 2012, 10:33 AM
There are a few broken tech paths that should be fixed. First, you shouldn't be able to get to infantry without first getting rifleman. Second, the time between muskets and rifles is also very short.

How many players go down the bottom path; the nuclear path? If you are going down the diplomacy or science victory paths, you don't even need to go down the nuclear path.

agreed. as it is, those paths are just used to take advantage of RA median values to get to the modern era. even if you are going dom vic you take those paths unless your UU is longsword/rifle/musket unit.

TylerD
Feb 20, 2012, 11:50 AM
I hope there aren't too many techs towards the end of tree. Don't get there very often (either won, dominating so hard that I can't be bothered to finish, or lost) and most of the time the strategical choices aren't that interesting.

Louis XXIV
Feb 20, 2012, 12:01 PM
I think there's a strong indication that the Industrial era has been expanded. Not only do we know for sure that there are two new industrial era units, there seems to be a new, more WWII-era infantry unit, which suggests a change with the old unit (possibly a re-name) that would also expand that time period.

jdog5000
Feb 20, 2012, 12:32 PM
My biggest hopes are:

- Two-tier classical with a couple more techs
- Delayed riflemen
- Total redesign from Industrial on

The late game tech tree is weak IMO, the beelines are much longer there than earlier which makes pacing of arrival of new units off. It just isn't constructed the same way as earlier parts of the tree and there are logical holes. Plus there's the whole Refrigeration branch sitting off in near total isolation.

Hammer Rabbi
Feb 20, 2012, 12:32 PM
I hope there aren't too many techs towards the end of tree. Don't get there very often (either won, dominating so hard that I can't be bothered to finish, or lost) and most of the time the strategical choices aren't that interesting.

im kind of hoping this expansion makes pre-200 turn vics (on standard settings) much less likely. i dont like that certain paths and strats are so efficient that you can "win" in the 1400s.

Trik
Feb 21, 2012, 10:11 AM
I wish they would have more refined techs, like tech trees within the tech tree. Not huge branches but more like little upgrades for some techs. Like advanced craftsmanship to improve swordsmen attack.

Lord Olleus
Feb 21, 2012, 11:09 AM
A longer classical era would be pretty nice, but that could almost be done by reassigning medieval techs as being classical. And adding just a couple more.

I also think that the industrial and modern ages are actually about the right left and cost. The only real problem is with the way great scientists work and the possibility of bulbing the entire modern era.

The real place new techs need to be placed, IMO, is in the renaissance. For a start it should be split in two. The renaissance followed by Enlightenment. They were drastically different. The renaissance is the discovery of America, the rebirth of greaco-roman thought and the wars of religion. The enlightenment is the napoleonic wars, independence of America, colonisation of Africa/India. The two are two completely different historical periods with completely different styles of thoughts.

Adding it in would also make a lot of sense from gameplay. It would put more distance between the cannon and arty, and between muskets, rifles and infantry (which are all pretty rushed).

MantaRevan
Feb 24, 2012, 07:16 PM
I agree. The nuclear path is pretty much useless in my book.

Louis XXIV
Feb 29, 2012, 05:08 PM
So, apparently one confirmed new tech is Combined Arms.

Did Civ3 have a Combined Arms tech? I think this is the first time since Civ2 that it's appeared. Back then, it had Helicopters and Paratroopers. They wouldn't necessarily move both there, but it's food for thought.

Trias
Mar 01, 2012, 03:12 AM
The confirmation of the great firewall wonder, leads me to suspect that we will the internet as a new tech. After all, the great firewall does not make any sense with the internet.

Louis XXIV
Mar 01, 2012, 08:39 AM
I think that sounds right. It also makes more sense that way.

KrikkitTwo
Mar 01, 2012, 11:56 AM
The confirmation of the great firewall wonder, leads me to suspect that we will the internet as a new tech. After all, the great firewall does not make any sense with the internet.

Well Internet does not need to be a new tech. it could be put as a project/effect under Globalization (which requires Computers).

Eagle Pursuit
Mar 01, 2012, 12:10 PM
Ideally the Internet would be a project, but it could also be treated as a National Wonder (getting your civilization connected to it rather than inventing it). Build an Internet Cafe in every city or something. But I could also see it getting treated as an obvious inevitability and thus be a static bonus to espionage for discovering Computers or Globalization.

SuperWaffle247
Mar 01, 2012, 03:41 PM
Ideally the Internet would be a project, but it could also be treated as a National Wonder (getting your civilization connected to it rather than inventing it). Build an Internet Cafe in every city or something. But I could also see it getting treated as an obvious inevitability and thus be a static bonus to espionage for discovering Computers or Globalization.

An idea I had would be Fiber Optic Network as a modern/future era building for cities. It could do.. whatever, probably happiness or production. I can even see it as part of an infrastructure buildin series, with public transport and superhighways being others.

Maybe I'll decide to make a mod someday....

Moriboe
Mar 04, 2012, 03:22 AM
No need to mod that in SuperWaffle, I already did it ;) I called it a Cable Network (available with Internet tech) and it grants +1 :c5happy:, and +5% :c5culture: in ALL cities.