Trying to get better so hopefully some of you will play this map.

The Leader:
http://www.dipmedia.com/images/Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG

Here's the start:
http://www.dipmedia.com/images/Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

Game Settings:
Prince(WB save)
Pangaea
No Huts/No Events
Everything Standard

Turn 0-50 (2000BC)


move setler 1 SE
found Washington
start worker
research AH
meet Montezuma to my immediate south YAY!!!
meet Boudica coming from my east
AH done and we have horses in BFC!
start TW
worker done improve cows
build WB
worker improve horses
TW done start Mysticism
build road to horses
begin roading to 2nd city site
WB working done set to work clams for 2nd city
start settler
Mysticism done start Masonry
settler done start CHariot
found New York build SH while working clams
improve stone
Masonry done start Mining
Chariot done garrison in NY
start Chariot
Mining done start BW
meet Suryavarman coming from the west
stone hooked up improve mine
Chariot done move to spawn bust 3rd city site
start Chariot
Chariot done
begin exploring to my south near Montezuma
start settler at pop 4
improve gems

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Figure I'm gonna have to take out Monty not sure if chariots will be enough we'll see if I have copper otherwise I might have to get HR and go with a HA rush!

I think settling on the blue dot was a lousy move on this map. IW would not otherwise be a priority tech in this start (I'd go for a straight beeline towards HA's with an incidental stop at the Wheel and a trip to Writing and probably Masonry afterward). As it stands, you moved yourself onto a strong production tile that you now can't use, and you picked up two visible jungle tiles (and one you couldn't see) as a result. It's probably a better site long-term since it misses so many ocean tiles, but gems alone will be enough to compensate for that in the early game.

Speaking of gems! There's no reason not to have your gems and second clam hooked up by this point. Washington wants to grow toward its happy cap, and that happy cap would be even bigger with the gems hooked up (you can increase it even more by putting the monument up since you went for Mysticism).

Stonehenge is an easy build, but I don't think you need it. It's close enough to finished that I'd probably just let it finish up at this point, but think about this: how many chariots, workers, and settlers are you now delayed in building because you went for the shiny?

I do think you should make a run for the Pyramids, though, since they're a far superior option on this map and will be especially powerful with a Philosophical leader like Lincoln (Lincoln + Pyramids is one of my favorite leader/wonder combinations, up there with Hattie + Sistine and Ragnar + Great Lighthouse). But if you're serious about wiping Monty out quickly, then wipe Monty out quickly. Who knows? Maybe he would've built Stonehenge for you.

So that's what I see going on.

Please turn on resource bubbles. Makes it easier to see what's going on.

I think settling on the blue dot was a lousy move on this map. IW would not otherwise be a priority tech in this start (I'd go for a straight beeline towards HA's with an incidental stop at the Wheel and a trip to Writing and probably Masonry afterward). As it stands, you moved yourself onto a strong production tile that you now can't use, and you picked up two visible jungle tiles (and one you couldn't see) as a result.

I can see the logic in that, obviously, but it's not like Washington is lacking in hammers, even when settled on a green hill. I'd almost never settle on a green hill because they're such great tiles, but in this case he still has two green hills before IW, a plains hill, grassland horses and grassland cows. That's a lot of early production right there, and no shortage of good tiles to work before he gets IW--probably post-Alphabet. In this case I might've done the same thing.

With Monty so close, and gems and horses in the BFC, this start absolutely screams "RUSH!" You can get rid of a terrible neighbor and claim another capital city site, which will likely be very strong.

At Prince you can almost certainly get away with a chariot rush, and then still have time to build the Mids. Or go HAs.

But...you needed to start planning and executing the rush the moment AH came in and you saw the horses. 50 turns is a long time to wait before asking for advice in this case.

It would be nice to know a bit more about the land you have available to peacefully settle. What's happening in the east?

Just saw you're building Stonehenge. Even though you have stone, those hammers could've gone on chariots and Monty would've been history. Bad move, in my opinion.

In defence of Stonehenge, it's only the same cost as 2 chariots, and being charismatic will give him +1 :) in every city. Not sure if I would've done it but I don't think it's a *bad* move at Prince, he should still be able to rush monty. Personally I would've skipped masonry, not built stonehenge & researched mining/BW earlier... mining for the gems (very good tile early on) and BW for chopping all those lovely trees into an army for monty.

So my starting tech choices would've been... AH (for cows), mining (for gems), The Wheel (for hooking everything up), BW.

I probably would've SIP'ed. 1SE still has 5 "empty" water tiles compared to 8 for SIP, and would be an awesome GP farm, which, being philosophical, would be a priority of mine. However 1SE has ended up with the horses so it's turned out fine IMO.

I think settling on the blue dot was a lousy move on this map. IW would not otherwise be a priority tech in this start (I'd go for a straight beeline towards HA's with an incidental stop at the Wheel and a trip to Writing and probably Masonry afterward). As it stands, you moved yourself onto a strong production tile that you now can't use, and you picked up two visible jungle tiles (and one you couldn't see) as a result. It's probably a better site long-term since it misses so many ocean tiles, but gems alone will be enough to compensate for that in the early game.

Speaking of gems! There's no reason not to have your gems and second clam hooked up by this point. Washington wants to grow toward its happy cap, and that happy cap would be even bigger with the gems hooked up (you can increase it even more by putting the monument up since you went for Mysticism).

Stonehenge is an easy build, but I don't think you need it. It's close enough to finished that I'd probably just let it finish up at this point, but think about this: how many chariots, workers, and settlers are you now delayed in building because you went for the shiny?

I do think you should make a run for the Pyramids, though, since they're a far superior option on this map and will be especially power with a Philosophical leader like Lincoln (Lincoln + Pyramids is one of my favorite leader/wonder combinations, up there with Hattie + Sistine and Ragnar + Great Lighthouse). But if you're serious about wiping Monty out quickly, then wipe Monty out quickly. Who knows? Maybe he would've built Stonehenge for you.

So that's what I see going on.

How is moving to the blue dot bad?　Even not knowing horses were there, moving picks
up a plains-hill and loses a grassland-hill, so production is actually better. Plus there is enough food without the fish. IW is not any higher priority than before, just because you have jungle does not mean you have to clear it.

Eh, now that I'm looking at it, it's not as bad as I was making it to be. The best thing it does, I think, is lose those tiles on the other side of the channel in the BFC. Having to shuffle workers across however long a space that is would've been a pain. I just hate "missing" a plains hill like that, and my default assumption was "augh, moving toward jungle, what are you doing."

In my defense, it was early and I was tired. :p You still need to get those gems up!

Turns 50-100 375BC

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BW done revolt to slavery
start writing
Chariot kill barb warrior
Gems hooked up start roading to 3rd city
SH done start WB
settler done start chariot
WB done set to work clams for capital
start Chariot
see that Monty has copper
found Boston
start chariot
improve cows
writing done start Mathematics
Declare on Monty to steal worker trying to improve copper
so far Monty only has 2 cities with minamal protection
1 pop whip Chariot in Washinton and NY
sack Teotihuacan
start worker while roading to hook city up to trade network
meet WVO via WB coming from the east
whip/chop more chariots so I have 12
meet Hanibal also coming from the east
sack Tenochtitlan
Math done start Alphabet
start worker
start Mids in capital
find monty's last city protected by 1 archer is Judaism holy city only 1 pop so I don't want to auto raze
and as I say that I pop a GP in NY so I can build the shrine
wait for city to grow to pop 2 then sack Tlatelolco
Monty RIP
OB with everyone
buld Temple of Solomon in Tlateloco
Trade Math to Sury for Alphabet/Hunting
Trade Alpha to Hannibal for IW/Pottery/Archery
Mids done start Library
Libray done start working 2 Scientists in Capital
mett De Gaulle OB
trade Alphabet to De Gaulle for Polythesim/sailing
start Aesthetics
found Philadelphia
found Atlanta
* cites/10 workers but so much land to improve and expand to
Sury is in war mode and it might be me UGH need to try and get a Judasim misionarry over to Sury ASAP
Not sure if I should go after Sury or Boudica??

I took a quick look at your last save. You are doing very well :)

Good job at taking out Monty!

I have a few minor advice based on the save:

You finished The Mids 200 hundred years ago, but haven't switched civics yet. you should switch to Representation this turn.

Your city placement are really solid. However I would completely skip the 2 south spots in the tundra (they are worse than nothing and will never contribute to your empire) and the western spot on the iron (you allready have 2 sources). Remember to road up your cities early (otherwise they don't get trade routes).

NY should have had its gold improved long time ago. Your need quite a lot of more workers. But I think you are doing right in settling aggresively toward Boudica.

I think your next tech should be currency instead of aesth. Once you have Currency you can expand indefinately and make a full recovery. Even with Currency before aesth -> literature you should have no trouble getting GLib (remember to settle and hook up the marble).

Why do you build walls? They are a vomplete waste of hammers. If you are afraid of you neighbour build 1 wall in the city most likely to get the heat. You will never need the walls in your core cities.

Btw I think it is highly unlikely that Sury should be plotting war against you. You share no border, he doesn't hate you and you are pretty strong. He is propably going for somebody else. You really need to scout him and Boudica more though.

Good call not choosing any religion. I think you should stay in no state religion unless you can share religion with Boudica (your main worrie) and Sury.

A jewish missionary to Sury will not change anything in regards to who he will attack. Once he has gone into WHEEORN mode his target will not change (begging and vassaling are exceptions).

Keep up the good work! This game is in the bag ;)

BTW you should just kill off Boudica right away. A few more chariots/swordsman and she is dead.

I may try to shadow tonight for fun, but just looking at the capital in your first screenshot, the strategy seems pretty straightforward to me:

horses/gems/pangaea screams HA destruction. Doesn't matter who the neighbors are - no AI will have an answer for that.

Claim good land (read: other people's land) before you settle crummy tundra towns.

Question: why are you teching Aesthetics? Currency is almost certainly a better choice given your economic state. Aesthetics has some nice wonders behind it for sure, but the AI doesn't really prioritize it, so you can probably beat them to it--especially on Prince. Currency will have an almost immediate economic benefit, and you have enough spare gold that you should be able to crank the slider a bit to help.

Boudica is a good next target. She's backward, and she appears to be at the far eastern end of the continent. Getting rid of her first will assure that, after you take care of Sury, you can keep your army working in one direction, which will save you some turns.

But yeah, I think economic techs (Currency and CoL) should be your next priority.

Game over. Next step: move up to Monarch.

Game over. Next step: move up to Monarch.

I have won some games on Monarch already but I am trying to get better with my tactics and tech strategy, but I will probably stay on Monarch after this game...

Turn 100-150



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Switched to Rep
built a few workers then begam whipping/chooping Swords/Chariots to take out bodica
Currency done start Construction
trade Monotheism to De Gaulle for Mediatation/10g
trade Monotheism to Hannibal for Priethood/10g
Currency to Willem for 40g
improve marble
Constryction done start HR
DOw on Boudica with 18 swords/16 Chariots/7 Cats few more cats on the way
Sack Vienne
Sack Tolosa
GE in capital, will save for GL
HR done start CoL
Sack Bibracte which is the Hindu Holy city
Sack and raze Verlamion
Sack Comulodunum
Sack Gergovia
Boudica RIP
Up next is Sury...

should I go Aesthetics>Lit after CoL or CS?

I have won some games on Monarch already but I am trying to get better with my tactics and tech strategy, but I will probably stay on Monarch after this game...

I could tell from your second game update that you are thinking at a higher level than Prince already. If you can whip/chop an army and complete a successful rush, you should be playing Monarch IMO. You won't learn much more on Prince.

Claim good land (read: other people's land) before you settle crummy tundra towns.


Is there a link to the article, I've probably read it before but can't find it.

"read" in this case means "by which I mean," so what I'm really saying is "Claim other people's good land before yada yada yada."

I'd trade for CoL instead of teching it; I hate repeating the AI's work, and three of them already have CoL. Maybe after your engineer builds TGL for you, you can trade Aesthetics around. There's not much else in that line you'll want anyway beyond maybe the free GA from Music.

With your economy in this shape right now, I'd turtle up for a little while and shoot for Military Tradition from Lib. Get a bunch of Cuirs and win the game.

Turn 150-200 1400 AD

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switched to Aesthetics
settled down to improve land
Aesthetics done start Lit
Trade Aesthetics to Willem for 180g
Trade Aesthetics to De Gaulle for CoL/10g
raised slider Lit in 1 turn Sury already has Lit
fish to Sury for 2gpt
corn to Hannibal for 4gpt
Lit done put 1 turn into Calendar then trade Aesthetics to Hannibal for Calendar/60g
Start Music
GL completed in capital with GE
Sury FINALLY DoW on De Gaulle
Pop GS bulb Philo Taoism one of Celts old cities
Agree to join war with Sury for diplo...backstabb to come later
Music done start CS
pop free GA
GG from killing De Gaulle scout in my lands already GG settled in capital will save for HE city or make super medic for surry war
Thinking about making Philadelphia Moai/HE city
Trade Music to Sury for MC/170g
Trade Music/Lit to Willem for Theology/CS/10g
Switch to Bureaucracy/Pacifism
Start Nationalism
Music to hanniball for 100g
Bribe Sury to make peace with De Gaulle by trading Philo for Monarchy/170g
make Peace with De Gaulle for 20g
Philo to Willem for Drama/50g
Trade Philo to hannibal for Compass/World Map/50g
Sugar to Hannibal for 3gpt
pop GS save for Education Bulb
Nationalism start Paper
Start Taj in Atlanta
Trade Lit to De Gualle for 40g
take last barb city to my east just before Hannibal
Education done start Lib
Trade education to Willem for Machinery/map/100g
Trade education to Sury for Fuedalism/50g
Lib done take MT start GP

seems like I was a bit slow becuase of my economy feel like I should have all those sites to my east settled already. 14 turns from Taj being done Hannibal got Nat right after me must have been going towards Nat instead of Lib I still have my GA for GA to speed that up and for the switch to theology. May retry from my 800AD save had to beat hannibal to lib as he had Education before i did but I'm 3 turns from GP then I can build/whip Curis and take on Sury who built Sistine BTW.

should I have done something differently??

Is there a link to the article, I've probably read it before but can't find it.

Maybe you're thinking of the Foundation and Empire series by VoiceOfUnreason (http://forums.civfanatics.com/search.php?searchid=1899298)? Here's a link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=420153&highlight=Foundation+Empire) to the first post in the series.

Quick shadow - 1140 AD Conquest - that was a fun little diversion. Automated workers and man, i swear I lost every battle under 50% odds. Doesn't matter with that kind of capital...


Pretty straightforward tech path - AH/Mining/Wheel/BW/HBR/Hunting/Myst/Archery. All I self teched after that was pottery, writing, alpha, currency, COL. Got a few more techs from AI before they died and turned off tech after that. Gems mean quick HAs - this was even slow since I shouldn't have bothered with a third city:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Beat him down to one city, extract tech:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Send everyone over to Boudica - she had no trade bait, so she died:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Unfortunately Sury was so damn far away, took awhile to get everyone over there and road my way to him. Two stacks ready (this is my small stack - the other had about 20):

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

Pillaged his copper on turn 2, took three cities and extracted calendar & poly from him. Economy was becoming a problem, so I just turned off tech for simplicity. Whip whip whip - had 40 turns of unhappiness in most cities - all that matters is getting more HAs...

Hanny was kind enough to share a nice tech as I was beating him down:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Back to Sury - note the strong economy, losing 80 gold at 0%...

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

A few whipped courthouses and building forbidden palace got the economy fixed...that allowed me to get back to whipping HAs and head to DeGaulle and do this - not enough longbows to stop the HA onslaught from 20 cities:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

And finally, Hanny's last city (I killed Willem's two meager cities in between...)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

Not much thought went into the builds...

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Prince%20Lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

I love gems & horses in the capital's BFC in a pangaea game...they make for easy HA rushes! This one took way longer than it should have because there was so much space between the AIs. Might have finished it faster on a higher level because the AI would have settled more cities for me. Plus I had no luck with the RNG - seemed like I lost tons of bad luck battles.

Quick shadow - 1140 AD Conquest - that was a fun little diversion. Automated workers and man, i swear I lost every battle under 50% odds. Doesn't matter with that kind of capital...See, that is where I'm trying to get. Might not be possible for most games but I need to be able to determine when that type of win is...I need to learn how to play the map more. Guess I over think stuff instead of being a bit more simplistic...nice one

pangaea/gems or gold/horse in capital (or very close) is automatically a perfect candidate for an HA swarm. You tech HBR that much more quickly, which means at most you're facing 1-2 spears for the first two civs.

The biggest key after the first target is trying to scout the land and locate copper or iron. If you can pillage that quickly, then you're mainly facing archers, and they have no hope against HAs.

pangaea/gems or gold/horse in capital (or very close) is automatically a perfect candidate for an HA swarm. You tech HBR that much more quickly, which means at most you're facing 1-2 spears for the first two civs.

The biggest key after the first target is trying to scout the land and locate copper or iron. If you can pillage that quickly, then you're mainly facing archers, and they have no hope against HAs.

I actually tried the HA rush, killed Monty and Boudica by 600AD but couldn't get my economy out of the red!!