http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cf2-splash.jpg

Settings:

World Size: Standard
Ocean Coverage: 80%
Land: Continents
Climate: Normal
Age: 4 Billion years
Temp: Temperate
Barbarians: Roaming
Civ: Americans
Opponents: England, France, Russia, German, Italy, and Japan
Difficulty: Deity+
Victory Conditions: Only Diplomatic, Conquest and Domination are enabled. Diplo is enabled so we will need to build the UN.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2_-_Start.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-4000BC.zip

I had the idea for CF2 after watching Band of Brothers for the second time. I also decided to create a terrain set for the game. The idea was to get a darker/brown sepia feel to the existing terrain. Now that I know the process, I will start working on further sets with more creation.

This influence for this variant is the story of the 506th Regiment of the 101st airborn division. The story begins at boot camp where you are introduced to men who volunteered to be paratroopers. These soldiers knew they would be dropped over battle zones. This is in the spirit of the Cannon Fodder series. After a space victory in our previous game, I am ready for some fighting, but not just any fighting.

Where the story ties in with our game is with paratroopers. The men of Easy Company did not only drop over Normandy. They took part in the battles in Bastogne and Carentan. They fought from D-Day through to the end of the war.

Rule 1: The only unit that may ever attack a city is a paratrooper. War can happen outside of our territory but there are restrictions on that.

Rule 2: This was a collaboration with speaker to incorporate more of an American history feel.

Start - pre Gunpowder : There is no such thing as an American Knight, or American spearman. The only military units we may build are warrior, horseman, Archer, and longbow.

Gunpowder - Advanced Flight: We may now fight outside of our territory. We may not take any cities though. We may want to do a lot of pillaging to slow the game down once we have rifles

Advanced Flight - The end: Attacking AI cities is now available by paratroopers only. We will need lots of bombard power.


Here are the players that have RSVP'd for the evening showing. One slot left

1. speaker
2. Cartouche Bee
3. skyfish
4. voodoocat
5. q33555

These are the players that have shown intrest. Please verify. The remaining spots are open for anyone with a Deity win. Either solo or in a Succession game.

Terrain Mod (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Sepia.zip)

Can't wait to get started. The terrain set looks great and I love the concept.

I guess my avatar is appropriate. ;)

Geronimo!

You guys won't get rid of me that easy...I'm BACK !

Got you in there Skyfish!

I'm still trying to upload the damn terrain set. I've been looking for a free web storage site that will let me have a zip file. I found one and am waiting on an email so I can upload it. Now I have to leave for work so I should have the start file and the terrain set uploaded after I get home from work.

2 suggestions :
- you should put the game into the Registry, loads of people check it for new SGs.
- you should let me play after CB in order to balance the roster as I am the weaker player of you all ;)

Waiting for the start file Voodoocat...

Yep, I tried the new sepia terrain and we just need the start file.

:cool:

Let's get a 5th player and we'll get started. Anyone?

You should post in the RBD-SG thread about this game, I am sure you will get some interest there...
a four-man rotation might be too fast for me I can not play more than once a week.

It sounds interesting, but I'm not up to deity yet ( in my first emperor game.) mabye in a whiile. good luck


RRnut


P.S. this is not a join message!!!!

I like the concept, and I think it's great that you made a tile set for the game voodoocat (even if it is a small change). I would play but am currently overcommited to other SG's and RL, seems like there have been alot of good Diety SG's starting lately. Good luck guys

Come on guys, I know someone out there wants to play in this game. How often do you see America used in a SG?

You should post in the RBD-SG thread about this game, I am sure you will get some interest there...
a four-man rotation might be too fast for me I can not play more than once a week.

I don't want a 4 man rotation either. That's why I'm waiting to post the start.

There's only 1 spot left so I'm sure we'll find someone soon.

I'm a monarch player. However, I'm in!

Edit: Just noticed I am required of a Diety win. Nevermind, I'll just watch this one then.

Been lurking around the RBCiv site more than here recently so only just seen this sign up thread. I'll be in - I'll try and take more part this time - my really busy RL schedule has calmed down somewhat now. Hopefully you all saw my post to the CF1 thread to show I'm eligible (although its still my only deity victory)

Just a couple of points -

@voodoocat - how much have you modded the terrain? I'm quite attached to my sn00py modded graphics ;)

For me (and I guess Skyfish) to play we must play 1.14f seeing as us poor relations in Europe don't get the new patches quite as quickly as you guys in the US (deja vu! - I seem to remember writing a very similar point at the start of CF1 :) )

Q! Good to see you. I'd like if you could use the terrain I created. It was created for this game only really. It's nothing more than giving the original terrain sepia toning and blending it slightly with the original to add a small amount of color.

We may have some conflicts here. I've got another SG that might be going to 1.21. I'll try and talk them into using 1.14 because the game is almost over anyway.

Yeah, I might have a problem here with versions also (I'm waiting to see how the dust settles). I'll know in the next while, this is too bad, I can't quite figure out why the language versions are such a problem for a company the size of Infogrames.

Will not be moving to 1.21f for a while I think....

This game will be 1.14f. I will post the start tonight.

Welcome back Q33555.

I have a quick question for everyone/anyone. How does pillaging affect your relations with another civ? I know that if you take another civ's city, it takes a long time to regain their good graces, if it can even be done. But what about pillaging? I have done extensive pillaging in the past (see CF1), but always along with taking of cities. It would seem like a great strategy for us to pillage the hell out of our neighbors in the Middle Ages and greatly slow down the tech pace, without taking any cities. This is assuming that we can get back in good favor quickly. We all know how hard it is to keep up in tech on Deity without being able to trade.

Open for business. I clarified the rule about taking a city. There is no sure way (besides intelligence) to see how many defenders there are in a city. Sooo. The rule is now the only unit that may attack a city is a paratrooper.

Got it. Should play and post by tonight.

4000BC (1) Move the scout north and east revealing hills, desert (one incense), flood plains to the north. It appears that we have coast to the west, but I'll have to check that out later.

3950BC (2) I ultimately decide to move our settler one tile northwest, to bring some hills into our city radius. This puts the game and bg out of range until our borders grow, which is okay because I plan on using the flood plains at first.

3900BC (3) Washington founded revealing coast to the west, as well as another bg tile. The radius of Washington will include 2 hills, 4 flood plains, 2 bg, 2 desert, 2 plains (one covered in forest), 5 grassland (covered in forest). A good mix of terrain and hopefully we will gain one or two bg. Scouting reveals another incense. Washington starts on another scout. Maximum research started on Warrior Code, due in 30. I chose Warrior Code because we will need some military units. I think a good plan is beelining for Horseback Riding. We already have the most important techs of Masonry and Pottery. Scout reveals furs 4 tiles west of Washington.

3850BC (4) Another fur revealed west of Washington.

3800BC (5) Scout goes into a hut which reveals "an Apache tribe has decided to join us." We get a free city! It is horribly spaced, with major overlap with Washington, so I decide to move it. I hope this is not weed, and only time will tell, but if I could move the city two tiles away, it would be perfect. I am going to build a scout and then a settler. This will allow me to get a granary in Washington sooner.

3750BC (6) Another Incense revealed in the hills above Washington.

3750BC (7) Step into another hut and are taught Ceremonial Burial by the Incan tribe. Gotta love the expansionist trait at this point. 3 Gems also revealed in the jungle below Washington.

3650BC (8) Nothing.

3600BC (9) Washington grows, up luxuries to 10%.

3550BC (10) New York builds scout who heads north. Our other scout is mired in a thick jungle south.

3450BC (11) Borders expand in Washington. Pop another hut gaining a conscript warrior who helps in exploring. Blue borders spotted at the southern edge of the jungle.

3400BC (12) Contact established with Germany who has Warrior Code and Bronze Working to our Masonry, Ceremonial Burial, and Pottery. I consider holding off on trading for Bronze Working since we do not need it because we cannot build spearmen, but ultimately decide to use our tech advantage while I can. I give Masonry and Ceremonial Burial for Bronze Working, Warrior Code and 30 gold. Germany has one city in addition to Berlin. More incense revealed north of Washington. Start maximum research on Alphabet. We will buy the wheel, and Alphabet will allow us to get to Mathematics. I think catapults might be important early on here. Alphabet due in 34 turns.

3350BC (13) Nothing.

3300BC (14) Washington and New York both grow and luxuries must be upped. For reasons unknown, New York requires luxuries of 50% to make their content citizen happy. I am forced to change my settler to a warrior for MP. The next player will have to decide what to do with New York, whether to keep it or move it one tile south and one tile southwest.

3250BC (15) Brown borders spotted north of Washington. We are really going to be hemmed in here.

3200BC (16) Step into another hut to gain another conscript warrior.

3150BC (17) Contact established with Russia, who has the Wheel to our Masonry. She will not trade it, however, for anything. She has two cities in addition to Moscow.

3100BC (18) Green borders spotted south of Germany.

3050BC (19) Incense connected. I chose to take the turns to do this because Washington is very food rich and will grow fast, and as of now, has no MP. When the granary is finished, I recommend one warrior and then settlers galore. Contact established with Japan who has the wheel and lacks Masonry, Pottery, and Warrior Code. Germany now has Iron Working. I give Japan Masonry and Warrior Code for The Wheel and 10 gold. Biz will not take any deal for Iron Working. We have a horse right next to Washington.

3000BC (20) Berlin has 3 wheat on flood plains. Yowza!

Conclusion- I have left the New York question up to the next player. I think our best bet is to abandon the city via settler and rebuild it one tile south and one tile southwest, on the hills next to the cattle and river. New New York would be a powerhouse city. Our tech situation looks strong. We have alphabet in 16 turns, probably less as Washington continues to grow. I expect we will have a monopoly on alphabet and will be able to get good gains for it. I hope my handling of New York was not weed, but it was such a bizarre circumstance, that I did not really know what to do with it. Our worker had his hands full developing Washington, and thus could not be spared to work at New York, and the placement of New York is poor in so many ways (overlap, cattle, river, etc). If we had gotten a settler instead, it would have been a much better situation, but you work with what you are given. :rolleyes:

PS- The warrior near the hut and horse is heading to pop the hut.

CF2-3000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2_-_3000BC.zip)

And a screenshot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-3000BCmap.jpg

I got it.

My Sepia terrain does not activate when I load the game. :eek:

I have it installed cause I can generate new sceanrios with it, anyway I'm just going to play on, I assume it's just pathing issues.

Give Japan 60 gold. Sell them pottery for 80. They are now polite.
Give Germany 80 gold. Sell them pottery and wheel for 110. They are now polite.

Change production in New York to archer (will send unit to Washington), I don't think we can afford the move of a city at this level, we can use this city to produce support units. Also MM it to make use of food tiles.

Pliny's study of world powers show the Germans and Russians heading the class with us dragging at the bottom.

2950 zz

2900 Move worker to horse. Pop hut for mysticism.

2850 New York archer -> worker

2800 Washington granary-> settler. MM for 5 food to speed growth to max.

2750 Lux 30%. Looks like a Russian scout is going to try and skirt around us, I will try and head him off so we don't lose out trade situation. This causes me to have to put Lux up to 60% and change production in New York to warrior for another MP.

2710 disease in Washington, means we will lose 2 pop. Russian scout turns for home. Lux down to 50%. Change production in New York back to worker.

2670 Lux down to 0%, Science 100. New York worker -> warrior Germany discovers mysticism on their own so gift Japan 40 and sell it to them for 40. Gift Russia 100 and sell it to them for 75. (Should have done the Russian trade first :smoke:.)

2630 zz
2590 zz

2550 Japan starts Oracle. Lux 10%. Gift Germans 20. That concludes the gifts that we can make and get attitude enhancements from these civs. So they are all now polite and we don't even have embassies.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-2550BC.SAV

Quick, MM Washington so it grows and produces the settler on the same turn! It's amazing how I learn something new every SG. That gift/trade might be the most advanced technique I've ever seen. :worshp:

Originally posted by Speaker
Quick, MM Washington so it grows and produces the settler on the same turn!

You make it sound so good but that disease lost me 2 pop points over my turns and that's why we are just finishing that settler, at the end of my turns. :( I feel that when you have a city that can produce 5 food per turn you are best leaving that situation as long as possible because the growth rate overpowers MM trying to enhance sheilds, the city should grow to a size that will allow us to churn out settlers every 4 turns, with a little help from the workers.

The gifting and sucking the money back on trades was the first time I've done that in a game, so I'm glad it worked out. :D The idea there is that early in the game, the AI has not much to offer and they trade so quickly amongst themselves that you can't let your opportunities pass you by. If I didn't sell pottery to the germans, sure enough the japanese would have let them have it for a song before they ever had enough to make the trade worth it to me. So getting good attitude from them now will make it so we should get better trades, at least while they are polite, and maybe they won't make demands on us as early in the game. ;)

Ah yes, the dreaded two-turn disease. I forgot all about that. That definitely hurts. I've definitely found, however, that Polite Civs still love to make demands.

Originally posted by Speaker
Ah yes, the dreaded two-turn disease. I forgot all about that. That definitely hurts. I've definitely found, however, that Polite Civs still love to make demands.

Yep, I'm glad that germany is next to japan here cause maybe they will take it out on them instead of us. We've got that jungle buffer for now that would sure help slow them down if they get demanding. ;)

Make sure the path is:

C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\CIV3PTW\Scenarios

1. speaker
2. Cartouche Bee
3. skyfish => Playing
4. voodoocat => On Deck
5. q33555

OK got it.
Same as CB I could not install the terrain..Could you give instructions on how to do this Voodoocat please ?

Originally posted by voodoocat
Make sure the path is:

C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\CIV3PTW\Scenarios



[edit:] Fixed in the posts following.

With the no taking of cities until Paratroopers stipulation, it might be a good idea for us to settle outward first, cutting off the bottom and top of the continent, and then fill in some of our backside later.

C:\Program Files\Infrogrames Interactive\Civilization III\CIV3PTW\Scenarios\Sepia\Sepia Terrain

Ummm there is 1 too many sepia's. And it was just a typo doing Infrograms.

The only way I could get the terrain to work is by installing all the files in the Sepia Terrain folder into my Civ3PTW\Art\Terrain folder. The only downside to this is all my PTW games now use the same terrain (I had backed up so can revert to sn00py's graphics pretty easily!)

Not sure if that was what I was supposed to do but I will go for it for now! :)

Just re-reading the game rules - :eek: nothing better than a level 1 defender until gunpowder!! We better hope no-one picks on us!

Just re-reading the game rules - nothing better than a level 1 defender until gunpowder!! We better hope no-one picks on us!

Au contraire, mon frere. We better use scouts to see the attack coming, catapults to knock down attackers, and a mobile attack force of horsemen to kill our foes before they can attack our cities.

yeah, could get hairy :)

This is weird. cause speaker and I got it to work.

make sure it looks like this http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/sepiaterrainpath.jpg

And where do we get bandofbrother.bix from?

I've never really used catapults before. I know the benefit of having stacks of artillery in the later game - but always thought the earlier bombard units weren't worth it.

I guess I'll find out this game :) !

Thanks voodoocat - rearranged the files and its working now, I hadn't put the sepia terrain folder directly in the scenarios folder :p

EDIT: CB its just sepia.bix from the original download that has been renamed

Thanks I'll try those adjustments. Next time I can post graphics. :)

Yeah, i had 2 scenarios.. messed up and put the wrong in the zip

Looks like we've all got it under control now. :)

When I made those gifts to the AI to improve their attitude, Bamspeedy's article on attitude claimed that the effect was permanent. He has revised the claim and the effect is temporary. So that bit of maneuvering on my part was total weed. I did it once in a game and that was the last.

@CB: I disagree with your analysis. Polite Civs are better to deal with than annoyed Civs, even if temporarily. Additionally, you still managed to get money for our techs, and had you waited a turn or two longer to try to trade for other techs, they likely would have already traded. I've found that it is best to get anything you can for your monopoly techs in Ancient Age Deity before you lose the monopoly.

I'm still mulling this, your right, if you are going to sell them the tech, you might as well gift them some cash if they will give it back in the trade. It's just time consuming to gift 10, see if they will give you all their cash; repeat until they stop increasing what they will pay. regardless I gifted some cash that I did not recover so, :smoke: on me!

Sorry guys I had to upgrade, if I can find a way to have both versions installed I'll be able to continue.

CF2 :
2550bc : no changes, like the gambit on Alphabet, hope it pays off.
1- 2510bc : sending settler North with an Archer escort. Getting our warrior and scout back from North before they are stuck.
ibt Russians building Colossus
2-2470bc : Germans and Japs back to Cautious... must be a relationship with agression level.
3-2430bc : playing around with lux tax and science, alphabet due in 4 turns even at 80%. Warrior produced in New York, switch to Barracks
as a prebuild to Temple ? That would allow us to grab the Furs.
4-2390bc : Japan's got HBR, hum...
5-2350bc : Germany got HBR and IW, Russia just IW. ALpha due in 2 turns, cross our fingers.
6-2310 : zzz
7-2270 : Discover Alphabet, set to Poly at min science. Settler gets to north site, but short of my preferred one.
Alpha to Japs for HBR
Alpha, 2gpt + 38g for Iron Working to Germany.
HBR to Russia for all their gold (25).
Iron in Washington hills :)
8-2230 : Settler produced in Washington going South, might want to go for a dense build since we won't be able to attack cities anytime soon.
Boston founded in North by Horses, bg, lake.
9-2190 : moving units, got our scout & warrior back from the north ! they fortify our northern border and can be used to block settlers from Russia.
10-2150 : Settler arrives in South on hill where I would found, it's close to New York but :
- it gets us 1 gem after expansion
- 1bg, 1 cow by river
- it's on a river
- it's defensive city on hill
- and can be quite productive until we can clear some jungle,
- anything more South will be totally immersed in Jungle and only lately productive.

We have tech parity, up IW on Japan, make 10gpt and have aro. 60g.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2, 2150 BC.sav

The link is actually this (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2,_2150_BC.SAV).

I was going to post a dotmap, but all of a sudden my Paint Shop Pro has expired and will not open and I don't have the time to download anything else. I think we should fill up the jungle with cities, as well as putting one on the forest next to the gold mountain and bonus grassland (this is on the river). Other than that, we will probably want to pack in another city or two in the plains near Washington and New York, and maybe a fishing village in the desert. We should only need 4 or 5 more settlers max and then we should probably start pumping out workers to clear that jungle. Space is at a huge premium here, especially since we cannot take over Russia until the Industrial Age, :eek: so we better make the most of our land, even if it necessitates a tight build. That just means we won't have to trade for Sanitation for a long, looooong time. :)

If you want to be able to use PSP you could always turn back the clock on your computer temporarily :)

Ah, good idea. That might get a little unwieldly after a while I suppose. Any ideas for another good (read: cheap) program that does the same as PSP?

Gimp.


http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win32/

Thanks.

Preturn - change tile production to flood plains for growth in 2. Also get +1 gpt extra.

2110BC (01) - Start road on game/forest. Clearing would be wasted because of settler finishing too late
2070BC (02) - Settle Philadelphia on the river. Set production to Temple. Scout sees forest to the southwest of our continent. Raise luxury to 10%. Settler in 2. Forest due to clear in 2.
IT: NY builds barracks>Archer.
2030BC (03) - Workers start clearing forest.
IT: Wasington Settler>settler
1990BC (04) - Send settler east for good land over there. Lux back to 0%. Move from floodplain to river/forest.
1950BC (05) - not much
1910BC (06) - Irrigate game/gl. Russia has a monopoly on writing. But doesn't know Japan. But is broke..
1870BC (07) - Not much
IT: New york archer, Boston worker.
1830BC (08) - No change in trade status. Finish road on bg. Luxury 10%
IT: Russia forces Contact with Japan out of us.
1790BC (09) - Finish settler. Settle atlanta. Kyoto finishes Oracle
1750BC (10) - Settler headed towards gold. The best choice seems to be on that hill.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-1750BC.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-1750BC.jpg

got it - will probably play Sat morning

Pre-turn: Survey the empire. Hmm a bit shy on workers - I’ll try to get a few more. Switch Philly from temple to worker and switch Atlanta from warrior to worker. Diplo check shows Russia and Germany up writing and poly on us, Japan is level with us. Trade 3gpt and 166g to Catherine for writing. She’s now polite.

IT: Germans commence pyramids

(1) 1725BC: Move settler onto hill by gold mountain. Move two workers by Washington on forest just S of Washington. Other units scout a little. Us getting writing probably made it cheap enough for Japan to get it straight away as they are level with us on tech but had no cash with which they could have bought it.

IT: Philly worker -> warrior

(2) 1700BC: Settle Chicago on hill by gold mountain. A worker ordered. Other units do their stuff.

IT: Italy completes pyramids (bad luck Bizzy!). New York completes archer, another one ordered. My thinking is to produce one more military unit while NY grows and then churn a settler out.

(3) 1675BC: zzzz

IT: Bizzy settles Cologne in the jungle to our S by the gems. This isn’t too good, we’re pretty much topped and tailed now by Russia in the N and Germany in the S. With no chance of taking cities until the paras arrive this isn’t looking too good.

(4) 1650BC: another zzz turn. Workers work and scouts scout. No movement on diplo front (I have been checking every turn)

IT: Washington settler -> archer

(5) 1625BC: Lux down to 0%. Choosing next city is tough. To our N is Cathy and mountains, to our S is Bizzy and jungle. I decide on heading S. Jungle is bad now, but can be developed into good fertile land later, especially with our bands of eager little workers. We now have sufficient cash to open an embassy in Berlin - Bizzy has iron, horses, incense and 4 lots of ivory. Just about to grow to size 7 but will produce a settler in 2. Bizzy is now polite.

(6) 1600BC: Catherine has MM. Her and Bizzy still won’t trade Poly, so the chances of getting MM @ monopoly are non-existent!

IT: First serious weed - not a lot was happening and I was taking it too easy I forgot that I had sent one of Washington’s MP out with the settler and therefore on growing to 4 it rioted. My bad guys - sorry!

(7) 1575BC: zzzz

IT: A Russion spear/settler pair go wandering past Boston. NY archer -> settler, Boston worker -> temple

(8) 1550BC: Send archer from Boston to try and run interference with Cathy’s settler. Diplo shows Cathy and Bizzy both have Poly, MM and Philosophy, Toku has Poly and Philosophy. Unfortunately cannot get MM - even when offering 12gpt, 32g and WM it is still doubtful. Could get Phil at a best price of 6gpt, 15g and WM from Germany and still cannot get polytheism. I hold off on deals for now.

IT Bizzy offers to trade TM for our TM and 11g - I decline, we’ll trade maps on our turns thanks v. much. Atlanta worker -> warrior

(9) 1525BC: run more interference

IT: Washington archer -> settler, Germans commence Colossus

(10) 1500BC: zzzz

Notes to next leader: We could get MM now, but only by giving up everything we have which wouldn’t allow us to run any science or lux. My one solo deity win I did run a gambit like this where I bankrupted myself for about 10 turns to get myself up in tech, I lost quite a lot of workers which wasn’t good, but when I came out of that period I never really looked back and kept up fairly comfortably for the rest of that game. We’re in slightly different situation here and I wouldn’t recommend this course of action.

The warrior/settler pair in the S are right on the spot I would suggest founding our next city. We’ve got two more settlers in production, but to be fair I’m not too sure where they should go as there isn’t really anymore good (or even average) spots to settle left.

Washington is pulling in 6 food next turn and can be MMd next turn to pull in more shields but still grow.

Conclusion: My immediate response is we’re going to live up to the game’s title here and become cannon fodder. We don’t have enough space to expand peacefully and as we cannot take cities until we get paras our civ is going to be quite weak for most of the game. Even the terrain we do have isn’t great. Oh well, the “Band of Brothers” never gave up and neither should we, but this is going to be like fighting the Omaha beach landings again and again!

EDIT: Corrected Phily's production on first IT from settler to worker

Here's the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-1500BC.SAV

Be careful with the sliders. I think I left them both at 0% after playing around seeing what MM would cost

Well perhaps our neighbors will war and open up some land for us. We should have some settlers on hand for this. Plus it will really be in our best interest to help with the wars once we have muskets. We could really weaken our neighbors by pillaging their land.

And yes, this is going to be tough. I wanted to create a game that has a decent chance of loss. That is how we grow as players. CF1 was way too easy for being Deity.

1. speaker --> Up now
2. Cartouche Bee --> On deck
3. skyfish
4. voodoocat
5. q33555

Well I've played games where I got cities on concession without ever taking a city in the war. Might not happen in this game but it is possible. It will be interesting to see what else is on this map.

:goodjob:

Because of the restricted space available, we should have drawn a dot map and talk about it before settling... We are going to need fishing villages for example and maybe to cram a bit...

Got it.

IT- Trade WM to Germany and Russia, netting 5 gold and both of their TM. Washington and New York require increased luxuries to stay happy.

1475 (1) Found Seattle. New York has three MP but only needs 2. I take one warrior and use him to harass a spearman/settler pair from Russia.

1450 (2) Start to bring irrigation to Atlanta. I pair up our workers where possible for more efficient tile improvement. WM trade to Japan nets their WM and 2 gold. Our whole continent is revealed now. The entire landmass looks pretty shabby.

1425 (3) Tile improvements and WM trading.

1400 (4) New York Settler => Horsemen. We need mobile attackers big time here. MM Washington for extra food. Chicago Worker => Warrior.

1375 (5) Washington Settler => Warrior. Washington grows in 2 turns and can produce a worker every two turns, growing from 6-7 and back to 6 for a long time. I disband our scouts who have been drawing ire for moving through foreign territory. I switch Atlanta to a granary. Since we have so few cities, we need high population in them all. Drop slider back since Washington has shed population.

1350 (6) Settlers move toward their spots and workers keep bringing irrigation to Hotlanta.

1325 (7) Washington Warrior => worker. Chicago Warrior => Temple. We have had science off for at least the past 7 turns, so I fool around with the sliders and find we will only lose 1 gpt running 10% science. I start us on Polytheism because it is expensive to buy, and dead end (don't see us needing Monarchy), and the other tech choices are too important to wait 40 turns for. I also buy Philosophy from Japan for 110 gold and 2 gpt. I chose Japan because they are our least biggest threat.

1300 (8) San Fransisco and Miami both founded as fishing villages. This concludes the expansion periods of our game folks. Both start on granaries since they are surrounded by poor territory. They will need harbors as soon as they become available.

1275 (9) Washington Worker => Worker. Requres slight mm each time, moving one tile from a forest to either the horse or a flood plains (doesn't matter). Get the Forbidden Palace popup. Can't imagine we'll be building that for a long time.

1250 (10) Russian swordsmen steps into our territory near Washington, Russian warrior steps near Boston, and another swordsmen and archer are near our territory as well. Uh oh!

Conclusion- I have held off on trading for Mapmaking because it doesn't do us much good at the moment. We don't have any coastal cities capable of building a galley with any bit of celerity, and we can trade our maps every turn anyways, so we may as well just wait until the price drops. The onyl reason to buy it would be to try to build the Great Lighthouse, but the only city capable of being even close to doing so are Philadelphia (which has major corruption and NEEDS a temple, and Atlanta which is only size 2 and won't grow to 3 for 9 turns. I think we should worry about those Russian units. Hopefully they are just moving through, but I don't know what we're going to do if they're not.....

PS- Washington should probably continue to pump out a worker every two turns, so we can get that jungle cleared asap. We could possibly squeeze in another city above Cologne if so inclined. This is shaping up to be the challenge we all wanted.


CF2 - 1250BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2_-_1250BC.zip)

Got it, looks like we are playing almost an OCC for the next 2 ages.

I think skyfish was right about making a dot map, we 'missed the boat' in the north cause we could have had three cities established on hills for defense instead of having Boston. One of those cities would have had a cow and fish and another would have had a free aqueduct at the interior lake. This would have also allowed us more food in a rather desolate area. I probably would have built one more city down in the west coast jungle, out of principle if nothing else. It would serve as a buffer and allow us more access to tiles to work.

I think we need to get a plan together soon on how we are going to defense what we have. In the north, attackers can waltz up to us and attack from mountains. Now later in the game we are going to have to rely on artillery heavily to make progress of any kind against cities. Catapults may be our only real defense against a push against any of our cities. Yes we need our horsemen and lots of them for counter strike ability but bombardment will give us a shot at the attack when they get in range with no risk of loss to us and then a shot on defense if they attack, so 2 shots for us before they get to make even one on us.

If the AI had any concept of strength and weakness they would be taking us out of the game right now, they could decimate us easily. I think building temples and such is great but if we lose a city we can never take it back until almost modern times. I'm going to leave the build orders as they are but Washington after the next worker, I'm going to let it grow for the defensive bonus and allow it's underlying production to grow so we can pump out some units. That will leave us with 10 workers, clearing jungle is important but all the other workable tiles should be developed before we sink too much investment into clearing tiles around cites that we may not be able to hold. On the other hand joining workers back into cities may eventually be a handy form of defense (getting cities over size 6), we will just have to watch the ebb and flow of world diplomacy carefully.

Yeah, I figure if someone can win a OCC, we should be able to compete with however many cities we have now.

1225 - Washington worker -> worker

1200- Buy russian map and sell it to the south.

1175 - Start temple in Washington, this city needs to get larger so we can produce something and the added defense in the city for being size 7 will help. We should build workers from all our slag cities.

1150 - Maps

1125 - Build embassy in Russia, they are in anarchy so they must be jumping up to Monarchy. They have 5 defenders and a settler in the city.
Build embassy in Japan. Still despotism, 4 defenders and a horseman.

1100 -Washington MM and set a worker to scientist. Drop science rate to 0%. Maps

1075 - Looks like russia wants to tango with Germany, I hope so cause they have about 10 units in our lands. Seems like we are playing an OCC at this point.

1050 - Maps

1025 - Japan tries extortion with us Maps and 30 gold, OCC rules at this point as much as it irks me. I give in. Washington Temple->Barracks Science 10%.

1000 - Maps

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-1000BC.SAV

OK I see it...

CF2 :

pre turn : wow it's crammed in here, we might still want to settle some more land, maybe I can generate one more settler for
south of washington, just for the sake of a second ring. There is also room for a city in the mountains between Boston and Miami..or a fishing village by New York.
1-975 : worker movement
2-950 : NY Horseman -> Horseman, we got no defending units so we better have loads of attacking ones :)
Philly Temple-> Settler it's a fast food city and can support it.
Chicago Temple -> Walls, its a border town and crucial passage and will not get to size 6 in a while.
Diplo front : CoL is available from Biz but would bargain our whole economy and get us maybe Map Making but not sure.
Buy a worker from Germany for 120 g + WM.
3-925 : Washington Barracks -> Settler. That 's the last one I will produce.
If we did not have all those workers in the open, I would really toy with the idea of hitting the Russians now : their whole army is
crossing our territory in the open with no cover ! If we had Spearman, there would be much less doubt in my mind. We could seriously
cripple them and sue for Peace at earliest... MOW stylee !
Everybody has CoL now and I could not afford it last round.
Buy CoL for 205g + 2gpt to Russia (Biz was very rich from selling CoL to everyone so I'd rather buy from Russia which had 0g)
4-900 : Boston Temple -> Courthouse (vetoable), worker movements.
Russia declares war on Japanese !
5-875 :zzz
6-850 : Lots of border expansions thanks to our temples (I like those), Washington Settler -> Horseman, city produces 6 extra food and set to grow again in 2 turns!
Nothing on diplo front.
ibt : French finish GLH
7-825 : Horseman -> Horseman.
ibt : Russians start on Hanging Gardens.
8-800 : We still have 19 turns to Poly, Russian and Germany both have Republic ! we can not afford it of course. I believe we
should not got to Monarchy and aim straight at Republic, in keeping with the American history !
Granary whipped in Atlanta.
9-775 : Atlanta Granary -> Temple
ibt : Germans building HGardens.
10-950 : Workers moved around, starting to clear Jungle in Philly.
Houston is founded east of New York. Washington to grow back to size 7 next turn is MM for max prod, please review next turn.

Next turn a settler is produced in Philly to go to the spot South of Washington there is a road leading to it (2 square N,NW of the 2nd gems where our Horeseman is protecting
a worker meant to build a road :rolleyes: ).
There are workers in Boston to develop that area and also build a road to Russia in order to trade Lux for Techs with them.
Sorry I had to rush this report a little bit...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-America,_750_BC.SAV

Got it.

Skyfish, you made some petty good moves to start new cities in the situation I left you. Building walls is a good move.


This is pretty grim guys!

I think we should consider making an alliance with Russian against Japan. That's our best way to get mapmaking before we waste all the production in Miami. This business of building granaries in desert and hills in despotism has me really concerned, I do not see how they will help us at this point at all.

If the japs come back on us they might piss off the Germans and maybe they will give us something for an alliance also.

Very good idea : let's go kick some Japs in the South !

Sorry this is taking so long folks. I know some folks are on or going to spring break so the next week will be slow going. I will post late tonight or early tomorrow. sorry for the delay.

Yep, CB is on holiday the whole week and I am going on a business trip to New Orleans (Yeeha !), will be back next Monday.
Skip my turn if necessary...

C. U.

I think Speaker gets back from spring break today. So it goes me, q33555, speaker then you two. We'll just stretch those 3 turns over the next week while everyone isn't around.

:cool:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF2-550BC.SAV

I had to upload before I went to work and forgot to email myself the report. I'll post it later on. Nothing really special happened. There were no trade oppurtunities to catch up. We did make contact with the French and should have contact with everyone else soon. Then we can do some trades.

Does anyone else get depressed when they open the save for this game? Good thing everyone has crappy land.

I'm back. I'm on deck after Q33555, right?

1. Speaker > On deck
2. Cartouche Bee
3. Skyfish
4. Voodoocat
5. q33555 > Playing

I'm a space cadet. I keep forgetting to post the report. It was boring anyway. Except for the fact that a city deposed to Germany. We only have 1 gem now.

Ok this game needs a jumpstart. Who is up?

You may have to PM me when my turn comes up cause it's falling of my radar. :)

I have now taken other commitments and I don't know if I can still play this game...

dp

Well it doesn't look like this game is going to pan out. The terrain looked suckier than I thought and the variant concept is a tad stupid. That you can blame on me.

I don't think all this talk conforms to the "Band of Brothers" concept.

Like, "Get into character soldiers!", if you were looking for a wet nurse scenario, this was not it, so pull yourselves together!

I really DID like that crappy start we got though... ;)

Well everybody seemed to lose interest. I've played very little civ lately as it is. About 15 turns over a week ago in a PBEM game.

Well it's your baby so if you are putting the lid on it, so be it.

Well q33555 dissapeared, skyfish is dropping out. Yet another SG I have started down to 3 people. I was planning a break from Civ for a while after this game. I'm still interested in this game if you guys want to continue.

Lets get a roster going again. Reply if you want to continue in this game.

We'll do 24 hrs for a got it post and 72 hrs to post.

I already replied 3 times today. :) :goodjob:

Ok, so you want to continue, I will continue. q33555 has dropped off the face of the .... CFC. Speaker is in class right now, and I expect him to continue as well. We'll see though.

You still need to post your last turn notes, Speaker seemed still interested cause he was asking for a jump start but we can wait and see what he says.

Oh yeah, I can do that. I'll do that tonight after work.

I'll still play. Let's try to get one more player if we can.

It may be hard to find someone. I'm sure all of the lurkers in this game are gone due to our 2 weeks of inactivity.

I might be interested in this. I’ve been considering getting into a SG at deity preferably. I resumed lurking SG forums today after a long, long break... And I saw 5 or 6 deity SG’s whereas in December you only had the odd RBE. So all of them were full but this one.
A couple of questions:
Can I do without the graphics?
Can you do with one line per turn reports? (Hate reporting these days)
Can you do with maybe less than 10 turns per session from me (I can pack a couple of hours every other day but if I run out of time I’d rather mail the game with 7 turns).

I’ll re-read the rules now.

Actually, this graphics mod is getting on my nerves. Lets just get it back to normal. As far as turns go, I think until we get paratroopers, 10 turns shouldn't take that long. I'm fine with less turns when we are in war.

Maybe we can continue in four. Who's playing next?

Well since q33555 vanished, go ahead and take his place.

1. Speaker --> On Deck
2. Cartouche Bee
3. Voodoocat
4. Yndy --> Playing

I think we should start a fresh game, where the turns are played by those that are still in the game.

That's a good idea, what does everyone else think?

I agree with that.

I thought you wanted to keep the game going. But since you want a restart I'm OK with that.


1. Speaker
2. Cartouche Bee
3. Voodoocat--> Re-start
4. Yndy --> On Deck

Actually.... :soldier: get in line. New start will remain.

1. Speaker --> Will Start
2. Cartouche BE --> on deck
3. Voodoocat
4. Yndy


Post will follow. CF2.2 -- Coming Soon 4/4/03 --

Here you go Speaker. Round 2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2.2-Startjpg.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-4000BC.zip

Was about to play, but then wondered...what version are we playing? With Skyfish gone, can we all update to 1.21 or can Yndy not patch? I guess I'll have to wait on the start.

Originally posted by Speaker
Was about to play, but then wondered...what version are we playing? With Skyfish gone, can we all update to 1.21 or can Yndy not patch? I guess I'll have to wait on the start.

I can and have just updated to v1.21.

I only hope that changing the version in the middle of GOTM 18 is allowed.

Good luck Speaker.

Oh, it should be 1.21. Forgot to include that. Sorry for the delay on things, I had to reformat... I squeeked out a backup because my drive was partitioned. I was writing to cd when all of the sudden, my computer decides that it was already time for a fresh start. I have more work ahead of me. I'm going to image my disk this time with ghost. Faster restore times.

Speaker, are you playing this one?

Yes, will play and post before I go to bed tonight.

Sweet!

Sorry about no turns on the PBEM game lately. I'll get it started again tonight, even if you can't play right away.

4000BC (1) Scout moves north and west, revealing some land from the hilltop. I decide to move one tile northwest to bring the spice into range of Washington, since we will not want to wait two border expansions to bring it online, and the terrain up there looks nasty.

3950BC (2) Founding Washington pops the hut, which gives us a warrior. He will explore up north where the terrain is slow while the scout can go south where it is faster. Washington goes to work on a scout. Science set at Ceremonial Burial (cheapest), but turned off. I have played tons of games lately with the Americans, and have found the best way to start is to do this. I can usually get several techs out of huts, and the AI always researches the cheapies relatively quickly. If you have a lot of money stored up, you can easily keep up. I usually do not turn on research until I get Mysticism, when I then work on Polytheism, which seems to be researched last by the AI.

3900BC (3) Exploring.

3850BC (4) Exploring.

3800BC (5) Exploring.

3750BC (6) The land southwest of Washington is very hilly. What kind of world is this? I also notice that our opponents appear to be random and include the Zulus, Iroquois, Greeks, Celts, and Mongols.

3700BC (7) First scout built and another started.

3650BC (8) Exploring.

3600BC (9) Pop a hut and get Bronze Working. :goodjob:

3550BC (10) Nice land explored south of Washington, includes two Cows, Game, and a freshwater lake. Silks revealed west of Washington.

3500BC (11) Exploring.

3450BC (12) Washington grows and builds another scout. Luxuries increased to 10%. I start work on a warrior, which will be followed by a granary.

3400BC (13) Exploring.

3350BC (14) Warrior builds and granary starts. Chopping a forrest should get the granary built before Washington grows.

3350BC (15) Exploring.

3300BC (16) Exploring.

3250BC (17) Exploring.

3200BC (18) Exploring.

3150BC (19) Popping hut gains us 25 gold.

3100BC (20) Pop a hut, but it's empty.

3050BC (21) Establish contact with the Zulu who have Warrior Code, but lack Masonry. I hold off on trading for now. MM Washington to grow and build granary on the same turn.

3000BC (22) Pop a hut but it is empty.

2950BC (23) Exploring. We may be on a continent with just the Zulus. That would be quite unfortunate.

2900BC (24) Granary finishes and I start on one more scout. Without any bonus food, Washington is a mere size 3 and takes 5 turns to grow. Not an ideal settler factory.

2850BC (25) Exploring. Actually, there is a large opening southwest of Washington. Hopefully more contact will be established soon.

2800BC (26) Shaka develops the Wheel along with Warrior Code, but still lacks Masonry. I continue to hold off on trading until more contact is established. I will not hold off too long though because I would guess Masonry is his next target.

2750BC (27) Scout finished and Settler started. This might have to be changed, since I don't know if we can afford to let Washington drop to size 2.

2710BC (28) Popping hut reveals maps.

2670BC (29) Exploring.

2630BC (30) Exploring.

Conclusion- I have intended for the northern-most scout to to explore the western peninsula, while the scout nearest Washington can either head north to help out there (the tile northwest of him is grassland, so make sure to step there first), or he can go south to further explore there. I hope turning off research didn't end up backfiring on me. I expected more contact already. What kind of map are we playing? It seems like there is a ton of room to expand here. Much more than I expected for either continents or pangea with the standard number of civs. Is this a huge map by accident? I guess I can only justify my move by the fact that Ceremonial Burial would not help us any right now (and it had to be selected as the cheapest tech), and we earned some extra money (since we are paying money for all our scouts, which cuts into our surplus). I guess I might have started minumum research on Alphabet,but if we had started next to a commercial civ, we would have it by now. and I had expected to get more techs from huts and have more trading opportunities. What civs are even in this game? Are they random? I thought they were going to be the same as CF2 part 1. Hold off trading Masonry to the Zulu for as long as you feel comfortable doing. I think there will be contact established with someone else pretty soon, and there is a hut that can be popped next turn. I played 30 turns since there are only 4 of us and there was so little to do other than explore. Good luck Cartouche Bee.

CF2 - 2630BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2_-_2630BC.zip)

Well I thought I used the same scenario as before which had only those civs. How about the units we can build? Is that messed up too?

I used continents, 60% ocean. This is due to that incredibly small starting area we had last time.

Can we get a screenshot for dotmap purposes? We definately could improve on CF2.1 and build some decent cities this time.

The map size is standard. Or so I thought.

Oooh, nice new avatar Voodoocat.

Since Washington is hardly a great settler factory I will build workers and merge the into Washington to bump up the speed that settlers can be manufactured.

2590 pop hut for warrior code

2550 Washington->warrior

2470 Washington warrior->settler

2270 maps from hut

2230 Washington settler->archer NewYork warrior->worker to merge to Washington

2070 Boston founded starts worker to merge to Washington. Pop hut - deserted. Pop a hut and get a village Philadelphia over on the other side of the world.

1750 Boston worker-> granary now that we have jump started the settlers coming out of Washington, an additional settler/worker factory here would be ideal use of the bonus food tiles.

I was going to let the settler build a city where it stands next turn. I was going to merge that worker into Washington to speed the next settler. If you check MM you should be able to shave a turn off completion. What a different game from last time!

CF2-1750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-1750BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-1750BC1.JPG

Are we really all alone on this continent with the Zulu? If so, we should probably send a settler to the west and have him start on a Forbidden Palace as soon as possible, so we can build a second core. There is SO much land.

Thanks speaker, I'm really excited for the playoffs.

I like how we aren't in the thick of things right off the bat. Enough room to expand..

1. Speaker
2. Cartouche Bee -->Just played
3. Voodoocat -->Playing
4. Yndy --> On Deck

Got it! Thanks for the roster update.

Guys, sorry about this... I can't find my Civ3 disk. I have some cd cases to go through. But wouldn't have enough time to play after looking tonight. If you guys don't mind waiting till tomorrow night, I will play. That way I can get a turn in before my 4 day trip to Denver.

Preturn - Everything looks good

NY builds worker>barracks
1725BC - Settle Atlanta
Philly warrior>warrior
1700BC - merge worker to washington. slider to 10% luxury
Wash settler>settler
1675BC - workers mining 2nd cattle near boston. I don't think there are any huts left. Start in on Alphabet
1650BC -
1625BC -
1600BC - workers finish road to bg near boston
1575BC - zulu has CB now
Zulu offers to steal 39 from us. ok
1550BC - Settle Chicago near 2 spices. WIll be a nice city once we clear the jungle
1525BC - Irrigate plains near NY.

I sent the settler south. We can settle a defensive city on the coast on the hills.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-1500BC.SAV

Got it. Will do the turn by tomorrow morning.

1. Speaker--> On Deck
2. Cartouche Bee
3. Voodoocat-->Just played
4. Yndy -->Playing

I will be out of town until Tuesday. It shouldn't come back to me by then, but if it does, please skip me.

Initial assessment: We’re probably very very back in tech but it doesn’t matter much. I only hope that the others will find us as soon as possible. Zulus are developing at a steady pace but we will probably be able to cut them from the south of the continent. Our expansion is paramount. I’ll use the existing settler to found the future location of the forbidden palace somewhere in the south.

Turn 0 (1500BC): Philadelphia: Change Warrior due in 2 with Worker. Send Warrior from Washington towards Boston as the latter will need more police.
Interturn: Monglos build the Oracle.
Turn 1 (1475BC): Atlanta Warrior->Warrior (after considering another Barracks)
Interturn: A zulu scout appears and I almost believed I found the Egyptians
Turn 2 (1450BC): Philadelphia Worker->Warrior. The Zulu are keen to settle the Silk Peninsula. That’s both good and bad.
Turn 3 (1425BC) Zzzz
Turn 4 (1400BC) Washington build Settler-> Settler
Turn 5 (1375BC) Zzzz
Turn 6 (1350BC) Atlanta: Warrior-> Worker
Interturn: Iroquois build Pyramids
Turn 7 (1325BC) Luxury tax up 20% to cover Boston at size 4
Interturn: Zulu built The Colossus in Ulundi
Turn 8 (1300 BC) Chicago Warrior-> Worker; Seattle founded; Zulu has the Alphabet
Turn 9 (1275BC) New York Barracks-> Worker; Worker joins Washington to speed up next Settler. MM things around Chicago, Make a scientist, decrease lux tax to 0%, decrease science tax to 0%, get an additioanl shield to New York, but lose two extra food for Chicago.
Turn 10 (1250BC) Boston: Granary-> Settler. Luxury tax back to 20%; Science tax back to 10%.

Final words: I was a little confused and I would like you to comment on my moves (Good/Bad?). The production of several cities may be changed: Washington: if we want it to grow a little larger, we could build barracks instead of Settler’ Philadelphia: I cannot see what else to do except Workers but maybe a settler in 22 turns? Seattle: We could change to a Worker as we have enough warriors in neighboring cities.
We are short on Workers as I joined one to Washington but several are due soon.
The settler that I inherited from Vodoocat has reached the place where I would build a city and work on the second core. But would you choose the same spot? The settler is active, you can build or move.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-1250BC.SAV

Edited double post.

Yndy, that city spot chose for the FP is a great city spot. I'm not sure that is where I would put the FP there, only cause it's going to be light on shields (no hills and only 2 bonus grassland). Might have been a little early to make a move like that but not a problem. We do need to get as much land grab going as possible. That area will be totally corrupt for a long time and a hand build of the FP will take 200 turns. On a map like this it might be better to do a FP build closer to home and then move the Palace with a Great Leader later in the game.

Boston needs one more food to get 5 surplus the natural amount required to be a great settler factory. Some needs to fix that and they settlers will pump out alot faster.

New York built a barracks, lets build military from there instead of workers.

Washington, with Boston coming on line as a settler factory, we can ease up joining workers in and go back to more conventional builds. [Edit:] So that would include barracks, military and settlers.

Our military is weak compared to the Zulu and they have been expanding like crazy. We will not be able to win cities till paratroops so lets start getting our military set up for success, in defense and open field wars so we can do some Great Leader fishing.

[Edit:] We need wheel to start up the US Cavalry, the Zulu's want too much so it's cheaper to research ourselves. If we are going to start building military let's make it something we can use on all this territory we have to cover.

Remember that according to the variant rules, we cannot build spearmen, swordmen, chariots, medieval infantry, pikemen, and knights. Only warriors, archers, longbowmen, and horsemen until musketmen.

Yep, horsemen is where I'm going with wheel, we need to find some horses though.

If we have no other contacts, we will not be able to buy techs from the Zulu as cheap as we can research ourselves. If we do make contact those other civs, then we can trade, but if they all know each other they will be miles out ahead of us in techs. What if we can't make contact till the end of the middle ages, we will still be looking at getting alphabet if we continue on this line.

If that happens, I suppose we should stockpile a lot of money, though I doubt we can even do that without being able to build marketplaces. If we truly cannot make contact until the end of the Middle Ages, it will have been a valiant effort, but nothing we really could have done...

Most variants can be won without having to rely on a map that is 100% suitable. I'd rather play the situation as it presents itself than on how I hope it turns out. So, if we want to continue with no research I can live with that.

No I am not saying we should not continue research. I think we definitely should. I'm just saying that if we do not make contact for a long time, we will likely have little chance of hoping to win if the rest of the world has tanks while we have longbows. It will be unfortunate that we cannot get a map that even lets us have a chance at playing out this variant. For now, however, let's skip techs that have minimal use to us like Bronze Working, Iron Working, etc. and try to make our priorities Horseback Riding, Mapmaking, and currency (to increase cash flow).

To clarify, any Deity game with no contact before the end of the Middle Ages would be very difficult to win.

We need luxuries to sell for tech in the future. I think that securing the luxuries is far more important than deciding on research or no-research.
By the way, sorry for the double post.

Nice turns Yndy. I agree with CB that maybe we should move our forbidden palace a little farther south toward the hills and mountains.

Oops, I guess I'm up. Short roster got me. Got it and will play tomorrow.

Phew, it took me almost an hour to make this dotmap, and since I don't have another hour to play, I'm going to ask to be skipped. This is not my best work, but the land was difficult to work with because it is so long and skinny. The white dots are wasted tiles, while the white city spots are fishing villages. The FP should go in either the Black or Red Dot. The red dot is more ideal, but the black dot is closer. It is 5 turns difference between them. Red dot will be better longterm, but black dot, with game and cattle will build the FP faster. It is your call Cartouche Bee. The large section of wasted white dots should include a city somewhere in there, but it is definitely not a priority. I also have two minor changes to the dotmap that I thought about after the lines were already drawn and impossible to remove without starting over. The pink dot should probably be shifted one tile southwest which will redeem two wasted tiles. The westernmost white fishing village should be shifted either one tile south or one tile southeast.

One other observation I made was that the Zulu have Alphabet and will trade it to us for around 300 gold. We should probably make this trade and then work on Map Making and send out some galleys to make contact. I think there might be some more coast in the fog near the western teal dot (which is next to spices and cattle), as well as near Boston.

Dotmap to follow:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2_dotmap.jpg

As I said earlier, it is cheaper for us to research ourselves than pay the Zulu. We can research Alpha for 160 rather than 300 to the Zulu (plus keep gobs of cash out of his hands). I think we should go with a tighter build, the cost to culture hook all those cities well be beyond our capacity. Cites should be close enough so that units can travel from one to the next, in one turn.

I'll leave that settler where Yndy left it, may not be the FP but it's a good city site.

We also need to get the luxuries at hand on line ASAP.

I understand that it is cheaper to research ourselves, but we can get started on Mapmaking much faster if we buy. Your call though. As for a tighter build, I considered it, but the map I drew up will already take a ton of settlers. A tighter build will take even more.

We can research to Map Making twice as fast as we can buy it.

Temples cost twice as much as settlers and cost cash to maintain. [Edit] Cities also produce cash rather than burn it, plus ad unit support for now.

True, but we can't research Map Making until we have Alphabet, so if we buy Alphabet and research Map Making, it will be faster than researching them both.

Since we neglected tech so far, chances are that either the others meet us before we get Mapmaking, or there is no contact possible until Navigation. I would say wait until our min-sci on alphabet completes and decide later what to do.

Still I will go with either of your approaches.

Found San Francisco where Yndy placed the settler, has 3 bonus squares in it's zone. research is set at nothing but Alpha appears to have 17 turns of min research on it already. Set science to 80% that gets us science for about 160 rather than paying the Zulu 300 for it, plus we deny them the cash. Change Boston to worker to set up as 5 food settler factory. Seattle set to worker.

1225BC - Atlanta worker->worker

1200BC - Philadelphia worker-settler Washington settler->archer Boston worker->settler research 100%

1175BC -

1150BC - New York worker-archer.

1125BC - zzz

1100BC - Boston settler->settler

1075BC Washington Archer->settler

1050BC - Alphabet -> wheel at 80% (was not sure where we would be launching ships from or to or when so went for horsemen). Atlanta worker-worker Chicago worker-worker. Found Miami warrior.

1025BC Found Houston to grab silk and start worker.

1000BC San Francisco worker->warrior

Boston at size 5 requires too much lux to calm down so I placed one worker as scientist. The spices will hook up next turn and moves to get the silks hooked up ASAP would work out to our advantage.

CF2 1000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2a-1000BC.SAV)

Hey guys. I'm back.

Well the game doesn't look much easier than the last one only due to the contact. I'm not worried though... we will make contact soon enough.

I think we’re still in an OK shape for now. It’s just that the first Zulu settler is coming our way. We should block him but in time the Zulu will have no way to go but towards us. We should prepare for a war.
CB and voodoocat, if you turn the scientist at Boston into an entertainer you can lower lux to 10%. Interestingly enough you lose one turn for the Wheel as well but if you increase tech to 70% you get the same tech and +3 coins per turn overall.
Vodoocat, I take it that you are already playing. Looking forward for your report.

I will play and post tonight. Last night was veg out night :)

damn.. computer f'd up and I lost the report for my first 7 turns.


Lost all my notes. up to 825BC

Early on fiddle with our spending to get wheel a turn early for -5 gold. Discover the Wheel. Settler now headed to hook up horses. Going for HB due in 7. Silks online Science at 0%

In miami warrior>granary in as prebuild for something.

800BC (08) - Settle buffalo. Growth in NY requires 10% luxury. Science at 80 and still get HR in 3

IT: 2 more settlers, 1 more archer.

775BC (09) - Back up to 90% due to loss in population.

750BC (10) - +2gold and HR in 1.

Having problems uploading the file. I emailed to myself so I can post tomorrow from work.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2a-750BC.SAV

Got it and I’ll play later today (read tonight). Any comments until then? I did not have the time to look at the file.

Pre-turn: Change things a bit. Change Miami from Granary ot Barracks. NY from Archer to Worker. Washington from Settler to Barracks. Houston from Barracks to Archer. SanFrancisco from warrior to Settler.
Zulu have nowhere to go but through our territory. Will focus on increasing the army.
(1) 730BC Horseback Riding. Go for Mathematics @ 100% due in 10 turns with -3 per turn. NY-Worker-> Worker
(2) 710BC St Louis founded
(3) 690BC Atlanta Worker->Barracks
(4) 670BC NY Worker-> Horseman
(5) 650BC Boston Settler-> Settler; Seattle: Warrior-> Archer
(6) 630BC DEtroit founded. Zulus move two Warriors near the border
(7) 610BC Two Warriors enter our territory. One Impi shows up in range; Galley enters territory. Since they'll attack anyway, I'll trade for gpt and ask them to leave. 28gpt for Iron Working and Ceremonial Burial. If they'll not declare war. you'll hang me for this. I asked Shaka to leave and he declared War. Seattle switched to Temple to get the Iron. Zulu have the iron hooked but I don't know if they have all the road network.
(8) 590BC WE lose Chicago as expected.
(9) 570BC Three Zulus appear near Houston which will most likely be lost. I take back Chicago only to remember I shouldn't have. Oops. I have to go to sleep now.
(10) 550BC We lose one Vet Archer defending Chicago. Zulu start their Golden Age. We do not lose Houston but we lost the Silk andHouston has two Impi near it. The Galley unloads an Impi and a Settler on the hill SSW of Boston. Hurry Warrior in Houston to avoid its capture by the Zulus. Retreat the Archer from Chicago. Whip Barracks in Miami. Mathematics due in one.
End-turn comments: Speaker, sorry for the pityful state of the game. We can whip the Horse in Atlanta next turn, NY in two turns, we can whip Boston like crazy. There's a fortified Archer in Atlanta who could take the redlined Zulu near Houston. But i'm not sure that's a good idea. Also I'm not sure we can hold them in general.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CF2-550BC.SAV

OK, I'm dropping this game. This has been 2 months and we are not out of BC times.

CF2 officially closed. I was actually going to say that yesterday.

I'm done with Civ for a while anyways. I'm sure I'll be back after a while but haven't had the desire to play lately anyway.

sorry.