View Full Version : Religious City-States


Beefie
Mar 30, 2012, 03:42 PM
If the importance of religion and thus faith tapers off into the mid-late game, will this not greatly reduce the usefulness of the religious city states in the game?

Seems odd to create a whole new city-state type just to make them semi-redundant half way through the game.

anandus
Mar 30, 2012, 03:53 PM
It's hard to say without knowing how much the importance of faith diminishes, if it does at all.

The thing we know is that the importance of religion on diplomacy diminishes after the renaissance.

Edit:
As far as I know ;)

chazzycat
Mar 30, 2012, 04:00 PM
it could work somewhat like culture. The way policy costs go up dramatically as you progress through the ages, so would the cost to buy things with Faith points.

So like culture CS, you would need to keep adding new allies to keep up with the rising costs. Then again, when you enter a new age the values for culture CS go up, maybe for religious CS it doesn't.

If you go down patronage you would still be getting the other benefits (science, great people, etc.) as well as their lux and strategics. Patronage could be a lot more attractive in the expansion, who knows. All speculation of course.

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 30, 2012, 04:57 PM
it could work somewhat like culture. The way policy costs go up dramatically as you progress through the ages, so would the cost to buy things with Faith points.

So like culture CS, you would need to keep adding new allies to keep up with the rising costs. Then again, when you enter a new age the values for culture CS go up, maybe for religious CS it doesn't.

If you go down patronage you would still be getting the other benefits (science, great people, etc.) as well as their lux and strategics. Patronage could be a lot more attractive in the expansion, who knows. All speculation of course.

They actually said that, as you enter Reinassance, the cost of purchasing Missionaries increases.

You also gotta remember, that any city state is important for Diplomatic Victory :mischief:

shihuacao
Mar 31, 2012, 03:22 AM
Can Religious City States found Religion?

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 31, 2012, 04:33 AM
I highly doubt it.

Montov
Mar 31, 2012, 05:48 AM
Well, Maritime CS will be less popular when you hit the happiness limit of growth, and the units from military CS might be redundant or costly when you don;t have/will use them. Only cultural city states tend to be always useful if you only consider their specific bonus...

And chazzycat is right about the implementation of faith based purchases. I think it is confirmed that those purchases will become so expensive after a while, you wouldn't focus on them anymore, but late-game purchases still occur.

Camikaze
Mar 31, 2012, 08:03 AM
What chazzycat says sounds about right, but it's probably worth adding that no only do culture costs go up as time goes by, but so do yields from city states. You get more culture from a city state later in the game than earlier. I would assume it's the same for religious city states.

bonafide11
Mar 31, 2012, 08:35 AM
It all depends on what "Faith" does after you have filled out your religion.

Liex
Mar 31, 2012, 01:12 PM
Will the Religious CS's religion have any impact on how it works? Let's say I founded/follow religion X, but religion Y expanded to a Religious CS, will our relation be affected somehow? It'd be nice if players of religion Y had some benefits in this case, perhaps on improving relations easier, at least.

MetaSkipper
Mar 31, 2012, 02:09 PM
It all depends on what "Faith" does after you have filled out your religion.

Most likely, you'll bank it for buying things like missionaries and units.

Beefie
Apr 01, 2012, 07:37 AM
Just remembered, didn't they say you could buy great people with faith? Then even with increased cost in later ages faith would still be quite useful, great scientist or engineer if you need a wonder bad.

I would think that city-states that share your religion you could gain influence quicker or lose it slower, maybe both?

Louis XXIV
Apr 01, 2012, 08:04 AM
I think it wasn't literally buying great people with faith, but converting a great prophet into another great person. I think it comes close to the same thing, but not quite.

D712
Apr 01, 2012, 08:19 AM
Just remembered, didn't they say you could buy great people with faith? Then even with increased cost in later ages faith would still be quite useful, great scientist or engineer if you need a wonder bad.

I would think that city-states that share your religion you could gain influence quicker or lose it slower, maybe both?

Yeah, I think that's right. And I'm sure the city states of the same religion would be friendlier, but I'm not sure if that only applies to religious city states or if it does to all city states with a larger bonus to religious city states.

theadder
Apr 02, 2012, 02:07 AM
Can Religious City States found Religion?

I really doubt it; I imagine that the game rules will restrict it and prevent it from happening. Even if that wasn't the case, it is likely to be too difficult for one single city to raise the sheer amount of faith necessarily and then acquire the Great Prophet.

I don't expect that the competition will be with the City States, but rather with the major civilisations in any given game.

If there are, as it seems, half as many total religions as there are major civilisations on the map, then this gives quite small numbers available. If the City States are competing as well, then the chances of major civilisations succeeding become reduced quite substantially and the game becomes that much less entertaining.

headcase
Apr 03, 2012, 05:29 PM
Faith can be used to pop special buildings that can't otherwise be built.

The diplomatic importance of religion goes down, but faith may be just as important in the later eras, especially since more beliefs can be adopted over time.

As a guess, religious CSs provide faith the same way cultural ones provide culture. How\when do CSs (religious and otherwise) adopt religions? Maybe the one of the civ who has the most influence with them at a certain point in time, maybe the religion with the most nearby cities, maybe complete randomness.

What'd be interesting is if a religious CS was indeed the "holy land" of one religion and could only provide faith for that religion, thus making it non-useful to Civs with different religions. However I think that would necessitate too many religious CSs in one game if every religion had one.

TheKingOfBigOz
Apr 03, 2012, 06:13 PM
Religion naturally spreads 10 hex away. You can also use missionaries to spread religion.

What I'm currently wondering, if Civ A has founded their religion (but has yet to fill their other believes), and Civ B has founded another religion (but has yet to fill their other believes), and Civ A conquers Civ B, does it get to fill up BOTH religions or just ONE?

Arkangelus
Apr 04, 2012, 08:39 AM
I'd assume it'd work like social policies. Aztecs have their own religion, they get both founder and follower bonuses. They take over Rome, which follows a different religion, the Aztec one isnt changed but Rome has the follower bonus for its own one, which you can then stamp out or spread your own one to.

Uberfrog
Apr 04, 2012, 09:03 AM
I'd assume it'd work like social policies. Aztecs have their own religion, they get both founder and follower bonuses. They take over Rome, which follows a different religion, the Aztec one isnt changed but Rome has the follower bonus for its own one, which you can then stamp out or spread your own one to.

Presumably, you could also convert your Aztec empire to the Roman religion if you decided you liked its perks better. I guess this'd be unlikely, though, since then you'd lose out on your own founder bonus.

We obviously don't know the details of this yet, but what happens to the founder beliefs of a conquered civ? Would it die with Augustus, or will it be transferred to whoever controls Rome?