I was recently playing a game in v139.2 where I was playing as Gandhi in a peaceful expansion. Japan was around 12 tiles away from me and China a bit farther in the same direction.

I picked up the pyramids and missed the GL and then Oda popped a city down 3 tiles from my capital and then blamed me for settling too close to him. A few turns later he DoWed me. I was able to take his nearby city and get an even peace from him.

Within about ten turns China came in and took Japan's capital, eliminating them from the game.

Another ten turns later and England (off in a different direction) DoWs me. I take another city and get slightly favorable peace.

All this while I'm trying to mostly continue a peaceful science/culture build while being able to defend myself.

Then a few turns after that peace, China DoWs me with like 5 horsemen and 3+ cats in addition to a couple melee troops. The ex-Japanese city I took falls easily to the super-promoted army.

So my question is this: Should I completely give up on a peaceful game and switch fully to war mode and try to obliterate China on the assumption that whatever happens they'll be mad at me the rest of the game, constantly declaring war? Or should I try to hold and defend, keeping the course with wonders and infrastructure buildings? I'd say we're both about equal tech level at this point (horsemen, cats, and swords).

It's quite bad luck to start with 3 highly militaristic AI neighbors. I would not pursue the wars. All three of them will get their UUs soon, and without planning for conquest from the start, I suspect those wars would be very difficult.

I wasn't planning on conquest, but I did decide to pursue the war. I now have honor full and took Japan's ex-capital from China but I'm about 15% behind in tech now (~20% vs ~35% for the leader) so it's not looking good. I probably should have dug in defensively instead.

So my question is this: Should I completely give up on a peaceful game and switch fully to war mode and try to obliterate China on the assumption that whatever happens they'll be mad at me the rest of the game, constantly declaring war? Or should I try to hold and defend, keeping the course with wonders and infrastructure buildings? I'd say we're both about equal tech level at this point (horsemen, cats, and swords).

If you were bring literal, nobody has any hard feelings after one war, no matter who wins, as long as you don't take their capital.

If you were bring literal, nobody has any hard feelings after one war, no matter who wins, as long as you don't take their capital.

I have *never* seen a warmonger give up like that. If I start near a warmonger like Japan or Askia, and they declare on me early, then they will continue to declare 20 turns after peace every time until the end of the game *unless* I take their capital in which case they'll more or less capitulate. I've seen this in probably 6-12 separate games.

I have *never* seen a warmonger give up like that. If I start near a warmonger like Japan or Askia, and they declare on me early, then they will continue to declare 20 turns after peace every time until the end of the game *unless* I take their capital in which case they'll more or less capitulate. I've seen this in probably 6-12 separate games.

I think we're talking about different things. I'm saying diplomatic relations are not negatively affected. You're saying certain warmongers keep coming back as long as you seem like an easy target. Both are true, in my experience. What China would do is a toss-up: usually she's not warlike, but she can be treacherous.

I think we're talking about different things. I'm saying diplomatic relations are not negatively affected. You're saying certain warmongers keep coming back as long as you seem like an easy target. Both are true, in my experience. What China would do is a toss-up: usually she's not warlike, but she can be treacherous.

Yeah exactly, I agree that diplomatic relations may not be affected, but in my experience that's totally irrelevant because they'll keep coming back for me anyway.

It depends on the civ's "forgiveness" flavor - some civs, you've probably noticed, will hate you til the end of time after one war, while others will immediately be at Friendly after a ceasefire. Wu has a relatively low forgiveness rating, so you're probably right - she'll hold a grudge. The flavors are in the Diplomacy by Numbers (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=409062) thread; Thal's adjusted them somewhat, but not by more than a point or two (after a cursory glance).

Anyway, my point is that not all civs will keep coming at you for the length of the game.