View Full Version : Candidates for a Larger Earth Map


Xyth
Apr 16, 2012, 09:46 PM
I get a lot of requests to include a larger Earth map. There are some great ones out there but most of them are truly massive - in excess of 20,000 tiles - that even unmodded BTS would struggle to handle. HR, with all it's extra graphics and features, wouldn't stand a chance.

I've had a hunt around and found 4 Earth maps that are noticeably larger than the 124x68 one included in HR but not so large that they won't be nothing but an endless mess of MAFs. That's not to say that they won't be demanding though - all 4 of these maps are somewhere between Giant and Massive size. I've attached the 4 maps to this post for people to take a look at. Note that I've made minimal changes to these so far, just enough to make them actually load. None of the new terrains or resources are added and while all civs should work, none will start in their correct location (other than by coincidence).

There's no need to actually play a game on these maps, I'd just appreciate it if you could open up the world builder and have a browse. I only want to keep and develop one of these maps so I'd appreciate your feedback on which one you think is the best quality and why. I doubt any of these are perfect but which would provide the best foundation for tweaking? Are they actually any better than the 124x68 map? I don't play on real world maps usually so your feedback would help me understand what people look for in such maps.

To install them, unzip and place them in /History Rewritten/Private Maps/. They should then appear in the Play Scenario list when you next launch HR. Depending on your settings you might see an error message or two while loading or at game start. Unless they mention 'memory' or lead to a crash, you don't need to worry about these.

Finally, since these maps are pretty big I recommend quitting and relaunching BTS + HR between each map. BTS is not very good at freeing up resources between games.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Keinpferd
Apr 17, 2012, 09:10 AM
It's not going to be easy to decide, which 18 civs should start on a map of this size. Usually, India, China and Russia will have limitless space to settle… Really, we need to convince Aspyr to edit a more-than-18-civs-DLL. Imagine how especially HR, with its global game perspective, on a huge world map, would be fun unlimited!

Are these loading errors connected to the culturally linked starting position Python? Isn't it possible anymore, to just stick any map in the Public maps folder and run it, then?
319236

Honestly, I think you either have to look further for a good world map, or someone of the contributors here knows a good one.

I rate the first 2 out of 10. Everyone may guess what these clumsy misshapes are supposed to represent:
319235

And this Middle East looks like a four-year-old made it:
319234

The second map gets 5 out of 10 from me, although the resources seem random, which I suspect they aren't meant to be. What was so hard to research realist and at the same time reasonably distributed resources?

The third and fourth map get a 1 out of 10 for the effort. These maps looks like resulting from feeding an area preserving projection type map (Greenland not the same size like Africa, but fourteen times smaller, as it should be) into a map editor, turning out Scandinavia and Canada, for instance, utterly distorted. It's less important, how a Civ map looks from the zoomed out view above the clouds than from a more closed in angle, which we players are actually using for hours and hours. To put it simple: Local areas of a Civ map should look like if you had fingertipped that area of the globe in front of your nose, regardless of distances, bearings and angles. A Civ map should go (of the things that a projection style can preserve) for "shape" and "size". What's only relevant to navigation systems, jet pilots, sailors or politicians, is negligible.

The only realist map type of "giant" dimension I ever liked, was Jabarto's Eurasia, but that's cutting off one half of earth, at least.

What about civ_king's earth project?

Eucalyptus
Apr 17, 2012, 09:37 AM
I get a lot of requests to include a larger Earth map. There are some great ones out there but most of them are truly massive - in excess of 20,000 tiles - that even unmodded BTS would struggle to handle. HR, with all it's extra graphics and features, wouldn't stand a chance.

I've had a hunt around and found 4 Earth maps that are noticeably larger than the 124x68 one included in HR but not so large that they won't be nothing but an endless mess of MAFs. That's not to say that they won't be demanding though - all 4 of these maps are somewhere between Giant and Massive size. I've attached the 4 maps to this post for people to take a look at. Note that I've made minimal changes to these so far, just enough to make them actually load. None of the new terrains or resources are added and while all civs should work, none will start in their correct location (other than by coincidence).

There's no need to actually play a game on these maps, I'd just appreciate it if you could open up the world builder and have a browse. I only want to keep and develop one of these maps so I'd appreciate your feedback on which one you think is the best quality and why. I doubt any of these are perfect but which would provide the best foundation for tweaking? Are they actually any better than the 124x68 map? I don't play on real world maps usually so your feedback would help me understand what people look for in such maps.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

2 and 3 are, to my eyes, the most distorted (use Australia as a reference), and their Polynesias are really uninteresting. Furthermore, 2 has no NW passage (above Canada), which for me is grounds for immediate disqualification. 3 and 4 have patchy boreal zones, and include many plains that should be taiga. 3 also bothers me because it's Mali has no gold, but there must be many such things to criticise and single bonus tiles are easier to install than swathes of terrain.

Earth 1 for me is the most realistic. For instance, it has a Greenland that is inhospitable and an Iceland that's marginal. The ice on Greenland means that America isn't reachable from Europe too early.

Earth 4 has not only a NW Passage, but also a NE Passage. The player who wants to circumnavigate has only to head to the pole and keep going. It's a more gamey map.
I like its resources distribution -- except that there's precious little gold --- and none in Australia!

So, I choose 1, followed by 4. Given that 4 is smaller than 1, could both be included?

Xyth
Apr 17, 2012, 06:14 PM
It's not going to be easy to decide, which 18 civs should start on a map of this size. Usually, India, China and Russia will have limitless space to settle

Thanks to Starting Points each player gets to decide which civs they want per game. Earth maps are never balanced unless the civs themselves are also drastically altered, which just isn't plausible or desirable for HR. I guess people can play the Inca or Russia if they want an easier game and Tibet or a European civ for more of a challenge.

Are these loading errors connected to the culturally linked starting position Python? Isn't it possible anymore, to just stick any map in the Public maps folder and run it, then?

Yes those errors are related to the start locations not being set up. It's still possible to place other maps in Private Maps (not Public Maps though) and they should run if they haven't been modified too heavily to run with other mods or with more than 18 civs. One quirk is that no Elephant or Cow resources will display. That's due to an error on my part though and I'll fix it for 1.18.

Honestly, I think you either have to look further for a good world map, or someone of the contributors here knows a good one.

I'm happy to take better suggestions if people can find them. Like I said there are some fantastic world maps out there but extremely few in this size range. 'Massive' world size in HR is 16000 - 20160 tiles (depending on map script) and many of the most acclaimed maps (e.g Earth 192 x 120 by Carter (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7071)) are well over 20000 tiles.

The only realist map type of "giant" dimension I ever liked, was Jabarto's Eurasia, but that's cutting off one half of earth, at least.

That map is 20000 tiles. Have you (or anyone else) had memory or performance issues playing it in HR?

What about civ_king's earth project?

I believe he's been very busy and hasn't had any time to make progress on it. He was working on the 124x68 map.

Given that 4 is smaller than 1, could both be included?

4 is actually bigger than 1, by just over 1000 tiles. I suppose I should list the dimensions:


152 x 96 (14592 tiles), 1.58 aspect
168 x 80 (13440 tiles), 2.1 aspect
180 x 87 (15660 tiles), 2.1 aspect
180 x 87 (15660 tiles), 2.1 aspect


Note that because 3 and 4 are the same size and projection (one is probably an update of the other by different authors, not sure which) it's possible to cut and paste between them if necessary.

I've been working on two new map additions for HR: Africa and North America. Through these I'm getting the hang of what's doable. I'm quite enjoying tweaking terrain and improving the shape of coastlines. I absolutely hate placing resources, so many difficult decisions and information for some resources is very hard to find.

The things that are the hardest to repair are the relative size of landmasses and the projection used. So I guess evaluating these maps on those aspects would be a big help.

Keinpferd
Apr 18, 2012, 06:03 AM
Thanks to Starting Points each player gets to decide which civs they want per game. Earth maps are never balanced unless the civs themselves are also drastically altered, which just isn't plausible or desirable for HR. I guess people can play the Inca or Russia if they want an easier game and Tibet or a European civ for more of a challenge.

Right, one should look at it as an "ingame" difficulty level. Nevertheless, games will be predictable, if there is endless space, that a civ can claim unrivaled by others. And if the player opts India out and Kushan in, then it will be the Kushan who get all the rivers and floodplains of the Indian subcontinent, and they will be a powerful India under a different name. My point is, huge world maps are by principle to big to host as few as 18 civs only. We need a miraculous workaround to the 18-civs-restriction:dunno:.

It's still possible to place other maps in Private Maps (not Public Maps though)[…]
Hm, I mistakenly said Public Maps but had in fact tried another map (which was working in HR 0.7) in Private Maps and got the same Python errors.

That map is 20000 tiles. Have you (or anyone else) had memory or performance issues playing it in HR?
Yeah, I was barely able to finish the game on the lowest graphical settings (and lost to China…). That was before HR, just plain BTS without enhancements. But after all the optimizations of the latest version, maybe at least some people get the chance to finish big maps in HR.

Note that because 3 and 4 are the same size and projection (one is probably an update of the other by different authors, not sure which) it's possible to cut and paste between them if necessary.
I think, most differences between these two maps concern ocean tiles converted to coastal, polar passages and minor resource additions. I wouldn't touch either of them:D.

Thinking about projections, Google Maps come to my mind. Of course, their world map is distorted by certain projection parameters, too. In the global view, you will find, Greenland is competing with Africa in size, but it looks like, on closer view, coast lines and proportions are shaped pretty accurately, as one would expect from photography taken frome straight above. (Just to further explain, why I'm so negative about maps 3 and 4.)

Eucalyptus
Apr 18, 2012, 06:54 AM
4 is actually bigger than 1, by just over 1000 tiles. I suppose I should list the dimensions:


152 x 96 (14592 tiles), 1.58 aspect
168 x 80 (13440 tiles), 2.1 aspect
180 x 87 (15660 tiles), 2.1 aspect
180 x 87 (15660 tiles), 2.1 aspect



Thanks! When I ran them, 4 came up as Huge, and 1,2,3 as Massive. Those were thus `wrong'.



I rate the first 2 out of 10. Everyone may guess what these clumsy misshapes are supposed to represent:

The second map gets 5 out of 10 from me, although the resources seem random, which I suspect they aren't meant to be. What was so hard to research realist and at the same time reasonably distributed resources?


I get the feeling that one of us exchanged 1 and 2. Our reports conflict!

Keinpferd
Apr 18, 2012, 07:59 AM
I get the feeling that one of us exchanged 1 and 2. Our reports conflict!

My first screenshot of the British Isles was taken from map 3, not 1, my bad. Map 1 appeared worse to me compared to 2. Well, they're both kind of loveless;). Look at the eastern mediterranean, middle east area in map 2, what is this?

319326

Xyth
Apr 19, 2012, 03:08 AM
Right, one should look at it as an "ingame" difficulty level. Nevertheless, games will be predictable, if there is endless space, that a civ can claim unrivaled by others. And if the player opts India out and Kushan in, then it will be the Kushan who get all the rivers and floodplains of the Indian subcontinent, and they will be a powerful India under a different name.

Yep and this is why I don't like to play on Earth maps. Many do though, so each to their own.

My point is, huge world maps are by principle to big to host as few as 18 civs only. We need a miraculous workaround to the 18-civs-restriction:dunno:.

At the same time we'd also need a miraculous workaround to the 2GB memory limit.

Hm, I mistakenly said Public Maps but had in fact tried another map (which was working in HR 0.7) in Private Maps and got the same Python errors.

Yes, you'll get those errors when loading any map that isn't set up for specific start locations. They're harmless. I could filter them but they're handy for debugging.

Yeah, I was barely able to finish the game on the lowest graphical settings (and lost to China…). That was before HR, just plain BTS without enhancements. But after all the optimizations of the latest version, maybe at least some people get the chance to finish big maps in HR.

I was going to remove that map in 1.18 due to its sheer size. No point updating a map that no-one can play. However I took another look at it and realized that I could crop Eastern North America and the Atlantic Ocean (I'd forgotten they were on this map). This reduces it to a much more reasonable 180 x 80; 14400 tiles, down from 20000.

Thinking about projections, Google Maps come to my mind. Of course, their world map is distorted by certain projection parameters, too. In the global view, you will find, Greenland is competing with Africa in size, but it looks like, on closer view, coast lines and proportions are shaped pretty accurately, as one would expect from photography taken frome straight above. (Just to further explain, why I'm so negative about maps 3 and 4.)

I don't entirely agree, I consider an overly large Greenland to be a bad sign. Many maps (in reality and in civ) try to represent Europe larger but end up unnecessarily enlarging Greenland, Arctic Canada and Siberia in the process. In terms of gameplay that results in an awful lot of useless tundra and ice, or giant Siberian empires. Better to have a more realistically sized Europe with fewer civs in it in my opinion.

That said, there's definitely no point in striving for size accuracy and distorting shape beyond recognition in the process. A balance of the two is ideal.

Thanks! When I ran them, 4 came up as Huge, and 1,2,3 as Massive. Those were thus `wrong'.

I meant to change them all to Massive, must have missed that one.

My first screenshot of the British Isles was taken from map 3, not 1, my bad. Map 1 appeared worse to me compared to 2. Well, they're both kind of loveless;). Look at the eastern mediterranean, middle east area in map 2, what is this?

Small areas like that I can tweak and improve easily. It's the big stuff like relative size and position of the continents that's much less repairable.

Keinpferd
Apr 19, 2012, 12:39 PM
I don't entirely agree, I consider an overly large Greenland to be a bad sign. Many maps (in reality and in civ) try to represent Europe larger but end up unnecessarily enlarging Greenland, Arctic Canada and Siberia in the process. In terms of gameplay that results in an awful lot of useless tundra and ice, or giant Siberian empires. Better to have a more realistically sized Europe with fewer civs in it in my opinion.
I know:D, eurocentrism… I would agree with you, if gameplay on realistic earth maps wasn't adverse to a two cities Britain or a one city Greece. Athens was just a 30.000 people small city in her heyday with no Civ floodplains or excessive Civ fishing grounds around, that would turn Athens into the classical Civ "science city", as we know it. Athens would have quite a few so called junk tiles in the fat cross: mountain peaks and plenty of water. There shouldn't be any green hills nearby. Nor should the rest of Greece be "good land" in Civ terms. Not always do historical circumstances translate into the civ representational schemes; thus it's justified to enlarge Greece or Britain unmodestly. Everything is allowed that gives a world map game Athens a chance to take the scientific lead or to let London become the world's capital and world's largest city until 1925.

This doesn't imply an inconsiderate eurocentrism at all, since Japan, or Egypt to a lesser degree, are sharing the same problems of Britain and Greece. An unenhanced Japan could result in a rather boring wallflower civ with no chance of playing a powerful role in the eastern Asian part of a world map.

davros42
May 31, 2012, 11:09 AM
At the same time we'd also need a miraculous workaround to the 2GB memory limit
Windows 7 seems to do the trick for PC. I've successfully concluded campaigns on our laptop that crash my (32-bit) Vista desktop. I would have thought recent MacOS versions would be immune too.

And there are several DLLs that up expansions to more than 18 nations, but that option isn't available to the Mac obviously.

Boggy
Jun 29, 2012, 03:23 PM
I didn't want to open a new thread, but I think it fits here (more or less) either way...
I made a world map for HR or, to be precise, I edited one. I used this map made by Pucc from the German civforum.de as a base and placed the new ressources, savannah and wetlands on it. At the moment, it's not yet really balanced (the base map was balanced for BtS and I just added the new ressources, but I haven't removed many - some regions could be overpowered at the moment) and will still need some more work, but at least it's playable.
At the moment, there are 18 default civs (the ones which were on the base map) and you have to choose one of them - you cannot, as on the other maps, choose any civ and it will be placed on its real start location.
These civs are:
America:
Sioux (Sitting Bull)
United States (Washington)
Maya (Pacal)
Aztec (Montezuma)
Incas (Huayna Capac)

Europe:
Celts (Boudica)
Byzantium (Justinian)
Russia (Yekaterina)

Africa:
Egypt (Ramesses)
Zulu (Shaka)
Mali (Musa)
Phoenicia (Hannibal)

Asia:
Persia (Darius)
India (Gandhi)
Khmer (Suryavarman)
Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
China (Quin Shi Huang)

Australia:
Polynesia (Salamasina)

Phoenicia will be replaced with the Berber Empire surely, they start in Carthage at the moment.
And I'm not sure about Polynesia. They start on the continent at the moment and their UU is nearly wasted (there aren't many islands in the area). Maybe I should just replace them with England (starting in Australia too, of course). More islands would be an option, too, but they could get too strong (specially with the Great Lighthouse). Letting them start in New Zealand would be funny, too... but the AI wouldn't cope with that.
I think the savannah placement is OK... If you don't think so, please tell me:)
But I'm not sure about the wetlands... They are placed in Sibiria, Scandinavia and north North Amerika (the north of North America;)). But I haven't placed them very well, I'm sure:o
Well, I think that was everything... Here's the map (WorldMap_HR_0.5 is the map, 0.98 is the base map by Pucc - if you want to look at it, but it won't work with HR). Feedback would be nice:) There are so many things to improve yet...

I hope the map will still work with 1.18?

Xyth
Jun 29, 2012, 03:49 PM
The attachments seem to be missing. It should still work fine with 1.18, and I can convert it to work with free civ/leader selection.

Boggy
Jun 29, 2012, 04:00 PM
Oh, sorry. Here is the map:)

I can convert it to work with free civ/leader selection.

That would be nice:) But it's nearly impossible (/useless) to balance a map if 5 civs could start in Europe and just one in America. I think I will keep two versions of the map, one with free selection and one without.

Boggy
Jun 30, 2012, 09:14 AM
I used this map made by Pucc from the German civforum.de

Argh, I'm so stupid:wallbash: I wanted to post this (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?79416-Entwicklertagebuch-Es-war-Einmal-die-Entstehung-unserer-Welt) link here. But the original map is contained in the folder (attached to the last post) either way, so you don't have to download it (if you should want) separately;)

Boggy
Jul 06, 2012, 03:31 PM
Well, I still haven't played a game with that map, but I have tried to balance it a bit more. North America had too many food ressources, but I think it's OK now. Every civ should be playable by the Human Player. But the AI could have problems with some of them, we will see.
I replaced Phoenicia by the Berber and the USA by the Iroquois (which are placed in Ontario now), I also switched Ramesses>Hatshepsut and Boudica>Vercingetorix.
Xyth: You said you can make it work with free selection. Shall I give you the starting positions of every civ or do something else, or will you just, ehm, do it on your own (no hint of impatience here, really, I just want to ask if I can/should help with anything)? Of course, I can wait if you've got better stuff to do now.

So, feedback would be nice:)

Xyth
Jul 07, 2012, 05:16 AM
Xyth: You said you can make it work with free selection. Shall I give you the starting positions of every civ or do something else, or will you just, ehm, do it on your own (no hint of impatience here, really, I just want to ask if I can/should help with anything)? Of course, I can wait if you've got better stuff to do now.

So, feedback would be nice:)

1.18 launch has kept me quite busy, each time I think I'm done something else critical gets reported. All good though. I plan to have a thorough look at this map as soon as things subside.

Finding the start coordinates for each civ is the slowest part of the conversion process. If you're able to get those for me, I can do the rest fairly quickly.

Boggy
Jul 07, 2012, 07:24 AM
Finding the start coordinates for each civ is the slowest part of the conversion process. If you're able to get those for me, I can do the rest fairly quickly.

You mean the x- and y-coordinates? Well, I will try it. What if two civs are too near to each other? Deciding for one and missing the other one out?

Boggy
Jul 07, 2012, 11:13 AM
Ok, I set a starting position for every civ. Some are overlapping, of course...
I've marked the positions on the map attached to this post. I think they should be ok, most of them are the position of their capital.
And Civ was kind enough to place a list of every sign with its name and its coordinates at the end of the WB-Save. Great:)
### Sign Info ###
BeginSign
plotX=76
plotY=37
playerType=-1
caption=Egypt
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=76
plotY=34
playerType=-1
caption=Nubia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=77
plotY=33
playerType=-1
caption=Ethiopia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=65
plotY=41
playerType=-1
caption=Berbers
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=62
plotY=36
playerType=-1
caption=Mali
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=67
plotY=29
playerType=-1
caption=Kongo
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=77
plotY=30
playerType=-1
caption=Swahili
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=76
plotY=23
playerType=-1
caption=Zulu
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=80
plotY=42
playerType=-1
caption=Sumer
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=77
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=Amurru
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=80
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=Assyria
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=76
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Hatti
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=77
plotY=40
playerType=-1
caption=Israel
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=79
plotY=37
playerType=-1
caption=Arabia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=87
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Persia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=97
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Kushan
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=100
plotY=41
playerType=-1
caption=Tibet
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=74
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Byzantium/Turks
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=76
plotY=44
playerType=-1
caption=Turks?
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=95
plotY=55
playerType=-1
caption=Mongolia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=106
plotY=42
playerType=-1
caption=China
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=108
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Korea
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=113
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=Japan
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=92
plotY=42
playerType=-1
caption=India
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=91
plotY=34
playerType=-1
caption=Tamil
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=99
plotY=38
playerType=-1
caption=Siam
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=100
plotY=36
playerType=-1
caption=Khmer
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=101
plotY=38
playerType=-1
caption=Vietnam
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=101
plotY=30
playerType=-1
caption=Indonesia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=118
plotY=21
playerType=-1
caption=Polynesia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=44
plotY=22
playerType=-1
caption=Maya
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=37
plotY=26
playerType=-1
caption=Inca
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=28
plotY=40
playerType=-1
caption=Aztec
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=34
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=America
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=34
plotY=48
playerType=-1
caption=Iroquois
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=19
plotY=49
playerType=-1
caption=Sioux
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=26
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=Anasazi
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=60
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Portugal
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=61
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Spain
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=61
plotY=51
playerType=-1
caption=England
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=77
plotY=42
playerType=-1
caption=Phoenicia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=66
plotY=45
playerType=-1
caption=Rome
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=71
plotY=43
playerType=-1
caption=Greece
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=80
plotY=51
playerType=-1
caption=Russia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=65
plotY=54
playerType=-1
caption=Scandinavia
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=70
plotY=47
playerType=-1
caption=Hungary
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=66
plotY=49
playerType=-1
caption=Germany
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=63
plotY=49
playerType=-1
caption=France
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=65
plotY=49
playerType=-1
caption=Netherlands
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=64
plotY=48
playerType=-1
caption=Celts
EndSign
BeginSign
plotX=69
plotY=49
playerType=-1
caption=Poland
EndSign

The following civs are overlapping (=not more than one tile between them):

Siam/Vietnam/Khmer
Nubia/Ethiopia
Portugal/Spain
France/Celts/Netherlands
Germany/Celts/Netherlands
Poland/Hungary
Assyria/Sumer
Byzantium and Turks have got the same starting position, but the Turks could move on 3-6 (that's the sign "Turks?"). Howsoever, they overlap.
Byzantium,Turks/Hatti
Hatti/Turks?/Amurru
Phoenicia/Turks?/Amurru
Phoenicia/Israel

The Arabian Peninsula and Europe could get very crowded...

Xyth
Jul 08, 2012, 12:22 AM
Here you go. The map file goes in /History Rewritten/PrivateMaps/ and the xml file goes in /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/Maps/. I haven't double checked the starting locations but if you need to adjust them you can edit the coordinates in the xml file. If you rename the map be sure to name the xml file exactly the same with '_StartingPoints' appended.

Some areas can get crowded, but you can use the Custom Scenario option to set the exact civs you want each game. The other advantage of maps converted this way is you can set game speed and other options differently each game.

Boggy
Jul 08, 2012, 07:43 AM
Great:thumbsup: Thank you. It works.

kiwitt
Jul 09, 2012, 02:19 AM
+1 for a 50 Civ DLL.

I was considering using this for a new RTW scenario, and 50 would definitely be required. Not sure about limiting it 18.

However, it may also be simpler to limit it to this.

kiwitt
Jul 09, 2012, 02:37 PM
Set for 18 civs Random

Comes up with a BUG script error on startup. Maybe some one can fix it.

Xyth
Jul 09, 2012, 04:21 PM
All maps require a second file in HR that provides the coordinates for each civ's starting location. I've included a template in the attachment; it goes in /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/Maps/. You'll need to add the coordinates yourself. You can find the coordinates using a tool like MapView (recommended) or by opening /History Rewritten/Assets/Python/CvEventManager.py/ ; search for

AddPositionsToMap = False

and change it to

AddPositionsToMap = True

This will place a sign on each tile showing you coordinates you can use. This map is very large though, so you may get memory issues with this method.

kiwitt
Jul 09, 2012, 04:27 PM
Thanks for that. I'll try it out - fellow Kiwi ;)

Civ 4 BTS (on Windows 7 - 64 at least) is large address aware, so it can access a full 4 GB of RAM. Not sure on MAC OS if it is.

Xyth
Jul 09, 2012, 04:42 PM
Civ 4 BTS (on Windows 7 - 64 at least) is large address aware, so it can access a full 4 GB of RAM. Not sure on MAC OS if it is.

OSX is 64bit too but BTS itself isn't, so its restricted to 2GB even though OSX can happily address much more than that. I don't why Windows BTS doesn't have this restriction as it wasn't patched as far as I can tell. Must be something to do with Windows Registry or similar.

You're welcome to develop a WW2 scenario btw. Are you thinking standalone or for inclusion in HR? Also, if you want to add a 50 civ DLL you can just drop it in and it'll work, so long as it doesn't contain any other changes. There's a 40 civ DLL here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234779) that's confirmed to work with HR. Would be great if you could stick to 18 for the scenario though, so we Mac users can play it too ;)

kiwitt
Jul 09, 2012, 05:01 PM
OSX is 64bit too but BTS itself isn't, so its restricted to 2GB even though OSX can happily address much more than that. I don't why Windows BTS doesn't have this restriction as it wasn't patched as far as I can tell. Must be something to do with Windows Registry or similar.Win 64 runs every 32 bit program in its own address space. Something to do with the WoW64. I believe MAC OS is similar to Linux and it may be a "WINE" limitation.You're welcome to develop a WW2 scenario btw. Are you thinking standalone or for inclusion in HR? Also, if you want to add a 50 civ DLL you can just drop it in and it'll work, so long as it doesn't contain any other changes. There's a 40 civ DLL here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234779) that's confirmed to work with HR. Would be great if you could stick to 18 for the scenario though, so we Mac users can play it too ;)I am keen for making it so Mac OS can use it. My young nephews use MACs so giving them the opportunity to play will be awesome.

I will create a thread in the main group for my 1940 scenario. I would like to make it an inclusion if possible. You may need to increase the number of UUs in the base mod a bit, to cater for it. I'll let you know when I get that far. My first priority will be to create a new world filled with detailed cities and new resources.

Keinpferd
Jul 09, 2012, 05:17 PM
Win 64 runs every 32 bit program in its own address space. Something to do with the WoW64. I believe MAC OS is similar to Linux and it may be a "WINE" limitation.I am keen for making it so Mac OS can use it. My young nephews use MACs so giving them the opportunity to play will be awesome.

I will create a thread in the main group for my 1940 scenario. I would like to make it an inclusion if possible. You may need to increase the number of UUs in the base mod a bit, to cater for it. I'll let you know when I get that far. My first priority will be to create a new world filled with detailed cities and new resources.

That's good news. I always felt it should be rather easy to boil down a WW II scenario down to 18 civs to make it accessible for us Mac users, for there's no real necessity for 40 or 50 civs in such a two-sided affair like a world war;). I'm happy that it's happening now in the context of HR!

Boggy
Aug 11, 2012, 10:30 AM
Ok, here is one more version of my world map. I would say it's the final one, but I'll update it if there are things to change or new resources to place. The things I've changed:
- Europe, for example, had to much happiness. I think the different starting positions are more balanced now.
- I've tried to balance the corporation resources better. Nestle was really weak and Taiyo much too strong, for example. That should be better now, but of course McDonalds will still provide more food than Nestle - naturally. I cannot place more Cocoa than Potatos on this map, and I don't think I should.
- As I this map was adapted with 1.17, Fruits and Prime Timber were missing. I've added them. (But I'm not sure about Prime Timber - I just placed it in some forests:dunno:)

The WB-Save goes in History Rewritten/PrivateMaps, the xml file in History Rewritten/Assets/Maps. I've named the map "Earth2 (Huge)" because there is already one map named "Earth (Huge)". If you rename it, rename the xml file as well.

Some things I want to say....
These civs will be harder to play than the others, I guess. I wouldn't use an AI for them.
Turks
Phoenicia
Arabia
Nubia
Ethiopia
Tamil
Kushan
Tibet

Japan, Indonesia and England start on an island (big surprise), don't let the AI play them.

If you play with 18 civs, I recommend to place them someway like this:
-3 civs in North America
-2 civs (Maya and Inca) in South America
-1 civ in Europe (the best would be one in Central Europe [France, Germany, Netherlands, Celts], but the others will work, too.)
-1 civ (Polynesia) in Australia
-3 or 4 civs in Afrika
-2 civs between Europe and Asia, like Byzantium and Russia.
-the rest in Asia. I recommend something like Persia, India, Mongolia, China, Khmer.
But of course, you can use every combination of civs you want. But this should be more or less balanced - the human player can win on every position.

Please note again that I just adapted this map for HR. I used this map (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?79416-Entwicklertagebuch-Es-war-Einmal-die-Entstehung-unserer-Welt) made by Pucc from the German forum as a base.

I've got no idea whether this map needs some adaptions to work on a Mac. Xyth?

Xyth
Aug 11, 2012, 08:16 PM
Awesome. It shouldn't need any tweaks to work on Mac. I'll add this to 1.19.