Greetings ladies and gents. Here you can sign up for being part of the epochal experience Multi-Team-Demo-Game 3.

CFC is looking up to recruit its best and brightest to sign up for this game and participate to its best abilities to help us win this trophy. Anyone is however invited to join and follow the game and take participation in the game.

Please, let me see your candidature.

I just posted in the previous thread, but seeing as this is the recruitment thread I'll post here. I'm an immortal players with some deity wins and play multiplayer internet games frequently. I'd love to join you guys.

Aight, pencil me in.

You Know It!

I'm in.

Count me in.

So is it now one team from CFC or more? I read the planning thread but didn't find any final decision.

I think we've mostly decided on only one team, to be fair to the other sites (which have as much or more interest in it). I guess if we get enough people we might split up the team, but for now, we only have one team.

Fair enough. I already mentioned this in planning thread but IMO we should try to get our private forum up ASAP. How do we go about it?

We have to wait patiently for our CFC Mods to set it up. Request has already been sent. We are just waiting now.

OK. Just checking, since I was not aware that the request was sent already.

I'm in of course :)

I am in as lurker...

I'd like to be in...but time will probably allow lurking only.

hi i would like to be a lurker for the cfc team, i think it will be fun to watch us beat the other teams with no problems. :):):):):):):):):):):goodjob::goodjob::king::):):) :):)

Ok, I am in too, for Gods Sake :)

May the AMAZONs of Kazakhstan crush their enemies yet again! I am in.

I was going to ask if I could sign up for multiple sites, but one of them already nixed it, so no triple double agent for(/against) you. :(

Ummm, yeah? It's kinda... not allowed.

If they all know about it and agree before hand, it's ok. Ask any lawyer.

Except that has always been and always will be against the rules of MTDGs.

If they all know about it and agree before hand, it's ok. Ask any lawyer.:wavey: No, it most certainly is not OK :p

A bunch of you guys, Caledorn, Provo, damnrunner and others, still need to do the whole Group Memberships thing to get access to the Private forum. You guys have all done it before, but if you need instructions check the "How to get Access" thread in this forum:D

I haven't actually signed up for Team Civfanatics... I'm just a group member to test the access permissions!

I haven't actually signed up for Team Civfanatics... I'm just a group member to test the access permissions!Thanks for letting us know. Since everything seems to be working, I went ahead and removed you:) Thanks for your help.

Hi Sommerswerd, 2metraninja and team CFC. I am hoping to join your team for MTDG III.

I don't have personal mp experience, but I lurk a lot of the games at Realms Beyond, and have read some of the games here at Civ Fanatics. I am currently making my way through Team Amazon's subforum from the last MTDG. I find these games extremely entertaining, and would love to participate in this one. I'll contribute however I can, and will be active in discussions as long as you want my input/feedback.

Regarding the discussion above, I'm not on any other teams! I did ask at Realms Beyond, but they are keeping their sign-ups limited to more active members.

Well, I'll go request access to the private subforum now, but wanted to say something in here first. If there is anything else you want to know before approving my request, let me know!

I am most certainly also in, but will likely have little to contribute. Am still on Noble, after all. But, I'd still love to take part, and see what I can learn.

edit: After reading the Jobs Required page, I've been inspired to volunteer to conduct polls as requested by the Ministers and Justice of the Court, and also to translate to French should we play anyone French.

Hello all, it's been a while since I played a DG, but this sounds interesting. These are always a good opportunity to improve your strategy by discussing it in detail with the other players, so definitely count me in.

I just saw the "wishlist" on the CFC roster page. I speak Spanish, so I can help translate, I can give diplomatic feedback (I'm a Political Science major and have some insight to how members of team rb think), I can definitely look up mechanics questions, and can even try my hand at deciphering some of the demographics numbers. I wouldn't call myself an expert in any of these areas, so you may not want me taking the lead, but like I said in my first post, I really want to participate in this game so I will help in any way I can.

Well, update the list with my profile name please.

OK I added you but you have to go to group memberships to get access to the subforum. I cant give you access unless you request it.

Hey, Sommersword - does that mean you'll approve my request to join?

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.:agree:This.

Another thing... I know some people play alot of MP and so know a bunch of people though they dont post much. If you fall into this category and if you are well known on CFC you probably share a mutual friend of someone on the team. Look at the friends of some of the confirmed members for people you know and see if they want to help the team and/or vouch for you to whoever they are friends with.

Pity. Looks like I won't be on the team, then, barring a leap of faith, seeing as I'm new. I do, of course, claim innocence - I have no account on other forums.

Let me know if anything changes.

So it looks like team RB is being really cautious about who they allow access to their private team forum. I guess this has been a problem for them previously and its now raising a few red flags for me...

We all want a multi-site game free of any sort of questionable conduct. But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

So I think Team CFC should consider limiting private forum access to people who have a reputation or a decent post count here at CFC.

I know alot of people post on multiple sites but I consider CFC to be my home base. I want to make sure my teammates feel the same way and will be 100% faithful to our team. I know that limiting membership based on post count is a litmus test but I can't think of any other way.

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

Please, Krill, let us handle our team as we wish. AFAIK you are not even participating in the game, so I don't see the need for you to return every now and then writing things that appear to be for no other purpose than sowing discord?

I don't know you at all, and I'm sure you're a splendid guy - but even though your point is valid, the way you say it is less than diplomatic.

It's called trust, in your fellow players. RB doesn't have it and it seems like you aren't sure either. Why are you willing to exclude a bunch of players A from the game because you don't know them and think they might cheat but trust a bunch of other players B that you don't know either to not cheat? And this restriction is only there to stop B from cheating in the first place, so you don't even trust them to not cheat?!

The second half of your sentence does not make much sense to me, so I am not going to answer it, but on the first one, I am going to tell you why we decided to put restrictions and not accept all players. It was strange coincidence that the same day when at RB was discussed possible spying on other teams and you wrote at RB that "CFC will accept anyone", we got 2-3 absolutely new CFC accounts signing up to be part of CFC team talking nonsenses like "we are here to see how CFC will beat all the other teams" WTF!?! You guys never registered at CFC, but you are well informed that there is a MTDG organized and you know who the other participants are and you wait to see CFC (which you never cared for till now to ever register) to beat the other teams? To me this smells bad and I am considered reasonable. Imagine how this smells to the more suspicious ones.

And btw, Caledorn is right - begone in peace and find yourself enjoyment somewhere else :)

It's a fairly simple point. people want to play in the game, read other people's posts and interact with them. There isn't anything suspicious about peoples motives there.

However, your statement is that the player restrictions is because you think that they are spies for other teams, as per Cav scout:

But i fear the temptation to gain access to another site's private forum might just be too great considering the scope of this MTDG.

Now, this explicitly states that you think your competitors will cheat, by creating new logins on CFC, and joining the CFC team. So to stop this from occurring you are stopping new posters from joining this team.

Hence, you do not trust your competitors.

But you are still going to play the game, and these competitors whom you do not trust will have other opportunities to cheat, for example pre-game agreements. You are not able to stop any of these with current rules, nor with an admin, but this is a tangential issue, and not the one that I am posting about.

This rule then has the effect of stopping new posters from joining the game.

There are precisely 2 options here. Accept that you are playing with people who can cheat, and trust them not to, or not play. Because if someone wants to cheat they will do, and creating this rule isn't going to stop it.


It was strange coincidence that the same day when at RB was discussed possible spying on other teams and you wrote at RB that "CFC will accept anyone", we got 2-3 absolutely new CFC accounts signing up to be part of CFC team talking nonsenses like "we are here to see how CFC will beat all the other teams" WTF!?! You guys never registered at CFC, but you are well informed that there is a MTDG organized and you know who the other participants are and you wait to see CFC (which you never cared for till now to ever register) to beat the other teams?

There isn't anything suspicious about this at all. A bunch of lurkers on RB have lurked games without creating logins, because they haven't had to, to lurk the games there. Then you come along and create a thread in the main forum saying there is a new demogame starting, and would RB like to play in it. So you informed the lurkers there is a game starting in the first place! RB creates a private forum that these lurkers can't see, they create logins and ask to join so they can lurk. Straightforward motives there.

Then, one week later RB publicly decides to not let any new players join, and I say on that day that CFC will take new players. The lurkers read my post then come over here and ask to play, because they want to play in the game, and RB won't take them.

The fact is that the lurkers didn't ask to join this team until RB refused them: they didn't try to join multiple teams, they haven't tried to cheat, and AFAICT, they have been perfectly respectable.


Please, Krill, let us handle our team as we wish. AFAIK you are not even participating in the game, so I don't see the need for you to return every now and then writing things that appear to be for no other purpose than sowing discord?

Um, you a mod? I didn't think so.

You seem to misunderstand why I'm posting here. You seem to think I want you to have a bad time and a bad game. Actually, it's the opposite, I want you all to have a good game so there will be a next time for demogames, so I might play in that one. I'm not playing in this one for many reasons, and yes, one of those reasons is that I do not want to play on these settings. That has no effect whatsoever on why I've posted here in the last 2 weeks: I'd have made the same posts if I'd have played on any of the teams. All the posts have been about the same thing: stopping new players from joining the game, and lack of player trust in each other, and both centred on the same issue. Ultimately I have no control over either of these, but the issue does need highlighting and for everyone in hte game to reflect on what they can do to control these thoughts, because they are a very real potential problem as the game progresses.

A good example is what happened with Memphus, and how that caused that game to unravel. All because of a lack of trust in each other.

I was going to say "Hey guys this thread is for CFC signup not blah, blah, blah...etc":p, but then I thought "Well the ""How to Join the Private Forum thread really makes this one redundant, so theres no harm in mucking this one up a little, and why be so self-righteous anyway? And TBH who am I kidding anyway? I am just as interested in arguing/debating this issue ad-nauseum/to-the-death as anyone." Plus all the points about Krill not playing etc, have been made and re-made and he obviously doesn't care... he wants to argue about this;)...so...

You've come to the right place buddy:evil: Welcome to the Sommerswerdzone:crazyeye:... Where nothing is too trivial to spend 10, 20, 50 posts and 7,000 words arguing about:mwaha:

So to get us started on the right foot... I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post, but that brings us full circle to this point which I want to discuss... WHY DID RB RESTRICT ACCESS? To me this is the only issue. IMO, RB restricted access because THEY DON'T TRUST those lurkers who were trying to join. So if they don't trust them, why should I?

As everyone can imagine I have LOADS more to say, but lets just start with that. I want some d@mn good reasons why I should trust someone who an experienced player like LP (or other veterans on RB) do not trust. Not one reason, mind you... MANY reasons... because I have MANY reasons not to trust, and I would similarly need many reasons to cancel those out.

And please don't waste time with an appeal to some BS sense of "faith in my fellow players" nonsense. As I have said before, these games have cured me of that, BTS MTDG II in particular:(. I trust the people I know, or ones that have been vouched for by people I know, period, just like in RL.

Last thing... This is unrelated really, but I was thinking Krill, if you feel really strongly about it, you could go over to CDZ, who AFAICT is not fielding a team (maybe you already have an account there) and form a team and invite all the lurkers who can't find a home to join your CDZ team. Shabbaman can give you join permissions and then you can accept whoever you want to... just a thought:)

So to get us started on the right foot... I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post, but that brings us full circle to this point which I want to discuss... WHY DID RB RESTRICT ACCESS? To me this is the only issue. IMO, RB restricted access because THEY DON'T TRUST those lurkers who were trying to join. So if they don't trust them, why should I?

This is a really good point, and one you should actually address to RB: I had no idea they were going to straight up ban people from playing.

This is what they posted publicly:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost.php?p=251566&postcount=52

1) This is an overtly competitive game, and we're approaching it with a more competitive spirit than most RB events.

2) Our fellow players do not all share our sportsmanship and sense of fair play. There have been instances of cheating in past demogames, as well as similar instances in other civ games from players on some of the other teams.

3) We need our subforum to be a place where people can be totally candid. Several players have indicated they would feel a chilling effect on what they would be willing to post or discuss with unlimited entry to the subforum. Of course most people would prove trustworthy, but past experience has shown a mere suspicion of compromised information can be unsettling to players.

1) is a non sequitur. This is a game where most players do not know each other, so being competitive isn't an excuse to play with people you don't know. FWIW, the majority of the players on RB have not played with each other either, they have just played in games on the same forum.

2) is the same point as above, with the same counter argument. The specific example that RB are referring to is Calanthian, which I explained and linked to in the other thread; I personally do not believe that Calanthian would cheat again, to put this into context.

3) is effectively a trust issue on the part of the players on RB, and a misunderstanding. They are thinking in terms of global lurkers, and not in terms of team mates which the new players would be. They are using experiences gained from playing PBEMs and PB games with open threads for anyone to look at, and transferring them to this game with locked fora. The players do not understand the difference, whereas I think that the players on CFC will understand more about demogames having hosted them continually now for about 6 years IIRC. Being candid in a forum is still possible with or without new players there, but RB players think that players on other teams would cheat and spy on the forum. Same argument as point 2.


Hence I think that RB is being illogical in not accepting new posters, and that their paranoia is not a reason for other people to feel or do the same that they have done.

If it comes down to a straight forward "I will play with people I trust" ideal, then why are you playing with so many people on other teams that you have no experience with?


I conceed to pretty much everything you said in your last post

You trust them not to cheat, and you don't know them. You don't know the new posters, but you don't trust them. It is an illogical position to take.

This is a really good point, and one you should actually address to RB I'm not going to do that. It's disrespectful for me to go over there and try to tell them how to run their team. Or question them on their motives for doing this and that. You are well known over there, and this is YOUR issue so you should be the one to address RB. 3) is effectively a trust issue on the part of the players on RB, and a misunderstanding. They are thinking in terms of global lurkers, and not in terms of team mates which the new players would be. They are using experiences gained from playing PBEMs and PB games with open threads for anyone to look at, and transferring them to this game with locked fora. The players do not understand the difference So YOU should explain that to them, and if they come around, then they can accept all their lurkers onto their team where they should be in the first place and this whole issue is resolved. Seems to me that you are barking up the wrong tree on this point:) Hence I think that RB is being illogical in not accepting new posters, and that their paranoia is not a reason for other people to feel or do the same that they have done. You may be right on the first point, but again, that is something for YOU to go tell RB "that they are being illogical." If you can't convince them then what do you want from us? Are you implying that we are so much smarter and wiser and fairer than RB? OK then, if we are so smart and wise and fair, compared to RB, then why wont you play with the settings we want? I think it is because you don't think we are any wiser or fairer than the RB players. At best we are the same, maybe you might even think the RB guys are actually a little wiser than us. So if that is true, then how can us 'pea-brains':p at CFC be more logical that the wise and smart RB guys? It doesnt make sense:crazyeye: The bottom line is you have to convince THEM. That's where the problem is. YOU have to convince them to take their own players.

Now as for the second point, I respectfully disagree. Saying 'paranoia' is just rhetoric right;)? It boils down to who is right. Who is more likely to have the best instinct in this situation (ie, what is the proper way to conduct an MTDG). You, saying there wont be any spying, or them saying there will be spying. What is their instinct based on? Is it based on experience? It seems to me that you are saying it is based on past experience, which is what our feeling was over here. So all we are doing is giving a little deference to RB's experience with this issue and going with their judgment. You can call that 'paranoia' if you want. I call it good decision making.:)

Another way to look at it, is if THEY are smarter than us, then we should do what they do (ie restrict access). On the other hand if WE are smarter than them, then you should be happy to play with the settings we want right?;). If it comes down to a straight forward "I will play with people I trust" ideal, then why are you playing with so many people on other teams that you have no experience with? The premise of this statement is wrong. You start with the assumption that we have no experience playing with the other members of this team. In fact I have experience playing with EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of this team. Maybe on different teams maybe as teammates. I think everyone on the team was on one of the BTS MTDG II teams. None of the players on this team are complete strangers to me. Some of them are more like family (in a 'Civ' sort-of way:D). Everyone on this team has a posting history that can be checked and verified, so we at least know something about each other and our Civ playing history.

But that isn't even the main point (What there's more?:confused:... Yea, there's always more with Sommerswerd baby! This well never runs dry:lol:). When you only play with players with established histories, there is accountability. There is a reason you are able to shame Cal all over the threads... Its because he is an established player and poster with a long history and tons of activity. His reputation matters. His good name matters to him and everyone else. When his reputation is tarnished, there is an effect that is real and tangible and felt by everyone.

Contrast that with a person who has little or no posting history. So what if they do something scummy? So what if they get caught spying or whatever? So that account gets banned. So what? They will be right back tommorow with a new IP/ new account. There is NO ACCOUNTABILITY for new accounts. You trust them not to cheat, and you don't know them. You don't know the new posters, but you don't trust them. It is an illogical position to take. As I said you are mistaken on this. I know everyone on this team, so its completely logical for me to trust them more than strangers.

:popcorn:.

Darrell

I'm not going to do that. It's disrespectful for me to go over there and try to tell them how to run their team. Or question them on their motives for doing this and that. You are well known over there, and this is YOUR issue so you should be the one to address RB.

It can be judgemental or respectful to judge a person's actions , but not to ask why they were made. However, the RB posters are reading this discussion over here and they already know that everything here applies to them as well. But this is a tangential point anyway and not relevant to anyone’s actions.


So YOU should explain that to them, and if they come around, then they can accept all their lurkers onto their team where they should be in the first place and this whole issue is resolved. Seems to me that you are barking up the wrong tree on this point

The lurkers can ask to join any team; you are assuming that all lurkers would rather lurk RB than CFC, which isn’t necessarily true. Also, the bolded section is not something I’m sure the moderators or admins would agree with.


You may be right on the first point, but again, that is something for YOU to go tell RB "that they are being illogical." If you can't convince them then what do you want from us?

Just because RB are being paranoid, does not mean that others must be as well. Their behaviour does not justify your own, nor yours theirs.

One note on the word paranoid. Paranoia is not “rhetoric”, it is a thought process controlled by specific feelings of anxiety or fear, often involving distrust of others. Hence when I say paranoia I am referring to a thought process.


Are you implying that we are so much smarter and wiser and fairer than RB? OK then, if we are so smart and wise and fair, compared to RB, then why wont you play with the settings we want? I think it is because you don't think we are any wiser or fairer than the RB players. At best we are the same, maybe you might even think the RB guys are actually a little wiser than us. So if that is true, then how can us 'pea-brains' CFC be more logical that the wise and smart RB guys? It doesnt make senseThe bottom line is you have to convince THEM. That's where the problem is. YOU have to convince them to take their own players.

Strawman...
Now as for the second point, I respectfully disagree. Saying 'paranoia' is just rhetoric right? It boils down to who is right. Who is more likely to have the best instinct in this situation (ie, what is the proper way to conduct an MTDG). You, saying there wont be any spying, or them saying there will be spying. What is their instinct based on? Is it based on experience? It seems to me that you are saying it is based on past experience, which is what our feeling was over here. So all we are doing is giving a little deference to RB's experience with this issue and going with their judgment. You can call that 'paranoia' if you want. I call it good decision making.

As above, paranoia is a thought process, not rhetoric. This is also a non sequitur, who is “right” or “wrong” doesn’t have any meaning in this context, as it ignores that opportunity for cheating to occur in other areas of the game. The argument is based solely on reasons why the refusal to not accept new players are hypocritical. It is not based on “What is the proper way to conduct a demogame”.


Another way to look at it, is if THEY are smarter than us, then we should do what they do (ie restrict access). On the other hand if WE are smarter than them, then you should be happy to play with the settings we want right?

Affirming the disjunct... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_a_disjunct) faulty logic. Games can be played on many settings, and people derive different levels of joy from different settings. This does not have an effect on which team a person plays for, nor the team policy for player participation.


The premise of this statement is wrong. You start with the assumption that we have no experience playing with the other members of this team. In fact I have experience playing with EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of this team. Maybe on different teams maybe as teammates. I think everyone on the team was on one of the BTS MTDG II teams. None of the players on this team are complete strangers to me. Some of them are more like family (in a 'Civ' sort-of way). Everyone on this team has a posting history that can be checked and verified, so we at least know something about each other and our Civ playing history.

Strawman. I am not commenting on the players that you do know, the point is that the players on other teams are players that you have not played with before and that you do not know, yet you still trust them to not cheat.


When you only play with players with established histories, there is accountability. There is a reason you are able to shame Cal all over the threads... Its because he is an established player and poster with a long history and tons of activity. His reputation matters. His good name matters to him and everyone else. When his reputation is tarnished, there is an effect that is real and tangible and felt by everyone.

What effect is that again? Calanthian has cheated in previous games, yet he is trusted to lead a team in an ISDG with what looks to be over 300 players.

I'd like to join the cfc team. Unless you don't trust me...

Um, you a mod? I didn't think so.

I don't need to be a mod to have an opinion, just as you don't need one. My post was directed to you as a request, not a demand. And I would like to add that if I were a mod and told you to scrap off, or moderated you based on your posts here, I would be abusing my powers. :)

What effect is that again? Calanthian has cheated in previous games, yet he is trusted to lead a team in an ISDG with what looks to be over 300 players.

I will stay out of most of this, as I don't feel I can contribute much. I was not an active player in the time of the incident you guys are discussing here, but I would like to say something in regards to that effect.

The effect is, I believe, called "forgiveness" and leads to "offering a second chance". It is one of the most admirable traits we humans have, and I am pretty certain that Calanthian sees the value of this. :)

I'll now leave you gentlemen to go back to your debate. :popcorn:

PS! Has anyone else noticed that the CFC forum have been very slow the past days?

I don't need to be a mod to have an opinion, just as you don't need one. My post was directed to you as a request, not a demand. And I would like to add that if I were a mod and told you to scrap off, or moderated you based on your posts here, I would be abusing my powers. :)

Cool.



I will stay out of most of this, as I don't feel I can contribute much. I was not an active player in the time of the incident you guys are discussing here, but I would like to say something in regards to that effect.

The effect is, I believe, called "forgiveness" and leads to "offering a second chance". It is one of the most admirable traits we humans have, and I am pretty certain that Calanthian sees the value of this. :)

I'll now leave you gentlemen to go back to your debate. :popcorn:

This I agree with 100%. But the follow up question is that why aren't the new players trusted, if it is accepted that people can cheat, intentionally and unintentionally (if we don't explain what conduct is expected of them, Dave's meta-rules point in the planning thread), and be forgiven? Just...why?

As I said, *I* trust Calanthian to the extent that I would both play against him and with him in this game. Considering the manner that the new players have been treated on two sites in this context...why can't they play?

I've been reading this thread for a couple of days trying to figure out how to handle it the best.

Being cautious about new members who seem to join just to play this game doesn't seem unreasonable. Sad but true, there may be a spy among them. OTOH, true new members should be welcomed, like I was welcomed when I first joined the Civ3 DG. What's a team lead to do?

I think y'all could tone down the trolling other sites.

Hey, Krill, if you are so interested in all having equal rights and receiving equal treatment, be kind and go make some 1 week discussion over RB, as they also deny newcommers access, but you are not filling their forum with long argumentations. Be fair and give them some food of thoughts too.

Also, you continue to ask why would someone not trust new player without any record to let him in his own private forum and in the same time trust someone with proven record, but still unknown player to play against. I think it is obvious. If I have to use metaphors to make it more clear for you, here it is: One thing is to not trust a complete stranger to allow him to see your country top secret documents (thats newly registered lurkers) versus when actually going at war to rely that soldiers from countries who proved respect human rights and respect the Geneva convention (thats other players from other sites we dont know, but yet trust they will conduct sportsmanship and fair play against us) to not conduct dirty war, genocide, etc. Makes sense? :)

It can be judgemental or respectful to judge a person's actions , but not to ask why they were made. However, the RB posters are reading this discussion over here and they already know that everything here applies to them as well. But this is a tangential point anyway and not relevant to anyone’s actions. I said it was disrespectful for me to go over there questioning them. I have no problem judging their actions, but I will keep my thoughts in "my sandbox." It's just common courtesy. I don't care as much if what I say here ruffles their feathers, because this is "my home base" if they are over here reading all the interesting and entertaining stuff I have to say, well, I'll try to make it good:) But when I am visiting over there I keep my fat mouth shut. That's their house, and I don't disrespect it, no matter what they say over here. But over here, I will give as good as I get;) I know you understand this point and its' relevance. You are "family" over there so YOU are the one to tell them the error of their ways OVER THERE. I have already taken their @sses to task over here, and done a d@mn fine job of it if I do say so myself.;) Ball's in your court now buddy... Make us proud:salute: The lurkers can ask to join any team; you are assuming that all lurkers would rather lurk RB than CFC, which isn’t necessarily true. Also, the bolded section is not something I’m sure the moderators or admins would agree with. All we are talking about is the RB refugees. Dont try to change the subject. Stay on topic;) Just because RB are being paranoid, does not mean that others must be as well. Their behaviour does not justify your own, nor yours theirs. They are not paranoid, they are just being unfair and elitist and we needed some time to make a point, and sort out how we would handle their unsportsmanlike behavior. One note on the word paranoid. Paranoia is not “rhetoric”, it is a thought process controlled by specific feelings of anxiety or fear, often involving distrust of others. Hence when I say paranoia I am referring to a thought process Thanks;) Its still rhetoric to call them paranoid though. They would say "cautious", LP described it as "common sense" its all rhetoric because its all subjective. Nice try though;) Strawman...
Again, Nice try. Obviously you have no response to a valid point so we can just let that go
As above, paranoia is a thought process, not rhetoric. This is also a non sequitur, who is “right” or “wrong” doesn’t have any meaning in this context, as it ignores that opportunity for cheating to occur in other areas of the game. The argument is based solely on reasons why the refusal to not accept new players are hypocritical. It is not based on “What is the proper way to conduct a demogame”. You keep usin tha whord... I don thin it mean whachu thin it mean. On the other hand your response is a "non-sequitur" Affirming the disjunct... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_a_disjunct) Nope sorry improper use of a logical fallacy label
Strawman I am not commenting on .... Wrong again. 2metra answerd this very well already so... Also, you continue to ask why would someone not trust new player without any record to let him in his own private forum and in the same time trust someone with proven record, but still unknown player to play against. I think it is obvious. If I have to use metaphors to make it more clear for you, here it is: One thing is to not trust a complete stranger to allow him to see your country top secret documents (thats newly registered lurkers) versus when actually going at war to rely that soldiers from countries who proved respect human rights and respect the Geneva convention (thats other players from other sites we dont know, but yet trust they will conduct sportsmanship and fair play against us) to not conduct dirty war, genocide, etc. Makes sense? :) Yea... This. What effect is that again? Calanthian has cheated in previous games, yet he is trusted to lead a team in an ISDG with what looks to be over 300 players.Yea and I invited Memphus to join AMAZON. Proof that one incident does not spoil a record built up over time. All that does is strengthen my point, Thanks:) I've been reading this thread for a couple of days trying to figure out how to handle it the best. Hopefully there's nothing to handle as you can see from our private forum. We've done our part, time for Krill to do his, which brings me to... Hey, Krill, if you are so interested in all having equal rights and receiving equal treatment, be kind and go make some 1 week discussion over RB, as they also deny newcommers access, but you are not filling their forum with long argumentations. Be fair and give them some food of thoughts too. This exactly. We arent the problem here, so really Krill, this argument has no further purpose. Take the fight back home to RB. Godspeed:goodjob:

I'm sorry but I need to stop posting on RB. Everyone here is just too retarded since they joined the demogame. Retarded, patronising, and destructive to the forum environment.

Krill has given up on us, which is why he is ignoring your requests to move this...discussion back to RB.

Darrell

P.S. :popcorn:.

Krill has given up on us, which is why he is ignoring your requests to move this...discussion back to RB.

Darrell

P.S. :popcorn:.:lol: Thanks Darrell! that made me laugh... So I guess he DOES think we are "smarter";). At least he hasn't called us "retarded" yet:lol:

So I guess he will play for CFC now since he obviously likes our settings;)

Despite Krill is against the general flow, he might be right to some degree about certain things. It is hard to be prophet in your own village. And it is almost impossible to be a acknowledged as philosopher in your time.

It was strange coincidence that the same day when at RB was discussed possible spying on other teams and you wrote at RB that "CFC will accept anyone", we got 2-3 absolutely new CFC accounts signing up to be part of CFC team talking nonsenses like "we are here to see how CFC will beat all the other teams" WTF!?! You guys never registered at CFC, but you are well informed that there is a MTDG organized and you know who the other participants are and you wait to see CFC (which you never cared for till now to ever register) to beat the other teams? To me this smells bad and I am considered reasonable. Imagine how this smells to the more suspicious ones.

Just saying: If there's a suspicion that someone could be a DL, then the moderators can check some things to see if it's an obvious one (sure, you'll not get the people who know what they are doing, but at least some), or in another way suspicious enough to raise some flags.

Just saying: If there's a suspicion that someone could be a DL, then the moderators can check some things to see if it's an obvious one (sure, you'll not get the people who know what they are doing, but at least some), or in another way suspicious enough to raise some flags.

That would be a relevant point IF all the teams were CFC based. CFC moderators can't compare IPs of users on CFC to those of users on Apolyton, for example.

My personal opinion is that the game should be open for all to enjoy, but I can understand the concerns of those who wish to be more careful with who can see their team's forums.

Azza, there are many ways this to be done, even if not all teams are from CFC if you know what you are doing :).

To add to this, we already have private high-level gentleman agreement between all team captains/site moderators/owners from the sites participating that special care will be taken that double- agents will be spotted, reported and dealt harsh with, so I think this will not be an issue at all.

It's not impossible, but it requires a great deal of effort, and is much more difficult to notice in the first place than if it were hosted on a single site.

It's not impossible, but it requires a great deal of effort, and is much more difficult to notice in the first place than if it were hosted on a single site.

Absolutely.

Hey guys,

Been following the debate (well.. been trying to avoid the meta bit :D ) with some interest. As you can deduct from my post count I'm predominantly lurking at the forums - but my signup date lies, I've been more or less actively lurking since '02 (i have an old acct from 03 actually.. Just re-found the pw. Don't really know if it matters). CFC is in many ways an integral part of the CIV experience for me, and has been for as long as I can remember.

Edit: I see my accouts are merged now :) So thanks to the Thunderfell for that :)

Somewhat randomly, I recently stubled into the older MTDG threads, via some SGs i follow with great interest. I was happy to read about the open, welcoming spirit of the Amazon team for instance.

This thread is kinda bleak in comparison, hehe. Makes you wonder what happened. Lots of grief, I guess.

Anyway, I was looking forward to finally come out of my lurkdom, and try to participate a little more actively in the community, by signing up for some SGs if they're open, and I was hoping to be a part of this MTDG too.

Now, I get both sides of the argument, although all your fancy debating techniques tend to get in the way of your points here and there ;) I get that this means a lot to the veteran players, and I do respect that. I'm still, however, requesting a spot on the CFC roster. I feel like I'm on the team already, and it would be nice to actually contribute a bit to the forums, 10 years of (almost) just lurking is enough :)

A little bit about me: I'm Norwegian, 32 next week, not the best MM dude out there but eager to learn. I win at emperor most of the time, but consider myself to be at Prince level really.

Edit 2: Oh i wrote Emperor, did I :D Wishful thinking there. I meant Monarch.. ;)

So yeah, I'm in if you want me.

(for the record, for those of you fearful of such, I have not and have never had accounts at any other civ site)

Ooh. Another Norwegian born in '80 :) *points at self for comparison*

Great introduction post! :)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Ooh. Another Norwegian born in '80 :) *points at self for comparison*


Haha. What are the odds. :D Diplo advantage for us then? :lol:

I will join for this, but I will need to be reminded via VM or PM about this when it starts up.

Glad to see this next game is happening. I'm in.

LOL - I just finished writing a long @ss message to you trying to convince you to join. This team could use another player who disagrees with me about everything and loves to debate:p

Seriously though, welcome:)

LOL - I just finished writing a long @ss message to you trying to convince you to join. This team could use another player who disagrees with me about everything and loves to debate:P

Seriously though, welcome:)

Thanks; looking forward to being on the same team this time rather than throwing tomatoes at each other over the fence (fun though tomato fights can be sometimes)

Glad to see this next game is happening. I'm in.

Hey, great to see you on the team whb! :)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

I'd like to join Team CFC. :D

I'd like to join Team CFC. :D

Hey good to see you :)

Hey good to see you :)

You too cav. Been awhile. :)

Another true DG veteran heard from. :D

I would like to join the team if possible. Caledorn can vouch for me, since I know him IRL.

I just can't stay away from these things. Sign me up or give me a perscription for Civ methadone.

Greetings, CivFanatics. Would you take on a novice? I’m interested in following the team dialogue.

For character review I submit the following. My Civilization mentor is member 1889 and I received my Civ hazing under the following post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=429379

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the team, young apprentice :)

You still need to apply for membership, just follow those instructions: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=462428

Greetings, CivFanatics. Would you take on a novice? I’m interested in following the team dialogue.

For character review I submit the following. My Civilization mentor is member 1889 and I received my Civ hazing under the following post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=429379

Check out the new guy with a link in his first post. What a show off. Welcome to the game bro.

Welcome sturgeon

Greetings ladies and gents. Here you can sign up for being part of the epochal experience Multi-Team-Demo-Game 3.

CFC is looking up to recruit its best and brightest to sign up for this game and participate to its best abilities to help us win this trophy. Anyone is however invited to join and follow the game and take participation in the game.

Please, let me see your candidature.

SilentConfusion is officially back. After going MIA partway through the BTS MTDG II, The AMAZON which I abandoned went on to win. I was out of Civ altogether for a year and a half.

I can lurk and help Team CFC with math things if needed. I have to find my download link from when I bought Civ 4 or I have to purchase it again.
Curriculum Vitae:

I started and was the main contributing member of the Demographics department for Team AMAZON
I have some skills with micro-ing
I have excel sheets for micro-ing, demo work, and game mechanics
I am mathematically inclined and love figuring out Civ formulas by playtesting and code delving

Note:
I will never have the amount of time I had at the beginningo f the last Demo Game.

I've been playing Civ 5 for a little bit now. I like it well enough, but the worst part is no Pitboss yet. I'm really hoping Civ 5 gets Pitboss soon.

I've signed on to help Team CFC in the Civ 5 Demo Game that is developing (hasn't started yet). We're using Giant Multiplayer Robot (http://multiplayerrobot.com) which uses hotseat and sends saves between players. It's a work-around, but there's a small community of people playing Civ 5 who want turn-based MP enough that we're working through all the bugs with the help of the great guys at GMR. If any of you CFC Demogamers play Civ 5 feel free to join Team CFC in that game. Team CFC could use more representation in that game.

Welcome back. Access granted.