As a "beta" of sorts of MP2's mechanics, this a test run to alleviate my concerns. The theme is a Renaissance-Enlightenment era; this is not that exact time period, so much as a rebirth of it due to the usual Cataclysmic disaster. Each turn is 5 years long.

http://i.imgur.com/uLCft.png

==Starting Out==

You start with 20 provinces.

You begin with 5 armies and 5 Agents.

==Expansion==

You can order your armies to move out and invade one province a turn, to a limit of five. This limit is lifted if you are at war with an actual state. You can expand theoretically infinitely, but attempts to rope off large swaths of land will be punished with claims shifted.

Every x% your culture has over the average, is the x% neighbor provinces will join you, up to five per turn. Cultural investments are a great way to pull ahead.

==Economics==

Income is tax revenue + tariff revenue + vassal revenue + miscellaneous income(grants, loans, etc.).

Your GDP is your population multiplied by your infrastructure with your trade added on top. Your tax rate(default 20%) is added on top of this. Higher taxes = more revolt risk.

You also by default charge a tariff of 20% on imports. For simplicity this applies across all imports mechanic-wise, and more or less represents the average. You can raise the rate, but every 1% will cause a random NPC to cut off trade with you until it is lowered.

Trade can be cut off by embargos and blockades; a strong navy is a must if you intend to be a trading power. By default, you trade first with nations that border you via land, and overseas for anyone else. For the over land bonus, their capital must be contiguous with the border.

Trade is automatic with every nation of the world. Controlling any single province that borders the five strategic canal zones will increase your trade tech by 1/1% per turn. Getting cut off from a canal will hurt any trade that goes through it; loss of access to the Suez Canal removes 5% of your Industry.

Infrastructure grows by 10% per turn and population by 5%. These percentages are reversed for third world nations.

You also have vassal revenue, which is 10% of your vassal states' GDP.

States can also give tribute, loans and grants to eachother.

==Technology==

You can spend your income on your armies or diplomatic maneuvers, but can also invest it in the following technologies. Civilian techs are public, military techs private.

Infrastructure - every 1 gold invested is 0.0001. Increases 10% per turn.

Trade - determines how much of the global GDP you can tax. The rate is trade value / 2500.

Culture - Improves NPC relations, chances of annexing neutral territory nearby, and lowers cost to vassalise nations. Culture increases 20% per turn as your culture diffuses.

Espionage - Increases chance of success with espionage.

Land - Increases chance of success in battle.

Naval - Increases chance of success in battle.

===Diplomacy===

You can declare war, embargos, alliances, etc. as necessary. Diplomacy is one of the key components to a long lasting IOT, as it keeps it from being more than RISK. Many diplomatic acts are not hardcoded, but some have mechanical effects:

-If you are embargoed, you lose access to that state(and its vassals)'s markets; you can also not use its territory for overland trade. If you embargo an NPC, they instead just lose 5% of their GDP. This simplifies trade.
-Open borders, military access, etc. allow you to move through a nation's lands. You can still move through anyway but that tends to constitute invasion.
-If blockaded, you lose income from any states you can no longer reach.
-War, obviously, causes your troops to freely engage eachother when in close proximity. Peace does the opposite and is the default state of all nations.
-Gift technology. The opponent receives half of the difference of your tech. You can only gift technology to ONE other nation per turn.
-Sell tech. The opponent receives as much of your tech as you specify; they must pay at least 50% of the value, i.e. they must pay a mimimum of 50 gold for 100 gold worth in one tech.
-Demand vassalisation. You can demand a minor power become your vassal, and they will accept if they have no real chance of fighting you off. Doing so causes neighboring nations to form defensive alliances and embargo you, so use it sparingly.

===Military===

Armies cost 5 gold and 1 pop to recruit.
Navies cost 10 gold and 1 pop to recruit.

You can only recruit up to 5% of your population per turn in peacetime. You can recruit 10% when at war, but be advised that this will drive up revolt risk very quick. Each unit also costs 1 gold in maintenance, so a large military will drag your economy into the mud.

===Combat===

You set units to offense or defense each turn. Defense is automatic if they're not ordered to move out.

The standard combat system is simple. Number * Tech vs. Number * Tech for both sides. Added together, they each come up with a percentage, bonuses are applied, a random roll(best 2 out of 3) is made, and the winner is decided. The victor kills 25-50% of the enemy's numbers, whereas the loser kills 1-50% of the enemy's numbers.

So, 10 Tech 500 armies go against 10 Tech 250.

That's 5000 vs. 2500. The defender has a 1/3 chance of winning. Regardless of who wins, the winner can kill 3-5 armies, the loser 1-5. Numbers are just as important as quality, as they determine casualties. You also want a large amount of troops to survive; if at any moment all soldiers are gone, your country will be defenseless. At the same time, too many troops will kill your economy, so find a balance and try to get allies or vassals to assist.

Standard combat bonuses are as follows:

-10% for defender in any area
-10% if attacked from the sea for defender

No matter how many bonuses the offender has, the defender always had a 10% chance of victory. Call it the Thermopylae Effect.

----

Navies blockade ports to cripple enemy trade income. Most importantly, if at least one ship of yours is present in a sea zone, amphibious assaults are not possible. Navies can transport divisions at a conversion rate of 1 per fleet. If any navies are sunk, there's a chance the units on board will be killed as well.

==Revolt Risk==

Revolt Risk is how likely your people will rise up each turn. If triggered, that proportion of provinces will rise up. Peasants generally will lose due to poor training, but they always have a 10% chance of winning, so beware. You will also lose economic power with revolts, as your people are butchered.

Raised by:

-Each tax over 20% will increase it by 1%.
-Each extra 1% recruited when at war will raise it by 1%. Raise 6% of your pop, 1% RR gained.
-Each army or navy destroyed raises it by 0.5% if an offensive war, 0.2% if defensive.
-Roleplay
-Events

Decreased by:

-Lowering taxes cuts it.
-Disbanding troops cuts it.
-Roleplay
-Events

===Roleplay and Events===

Roleplay is rewarded. What your roleplay is about will determine what it goes towards; talk of trade agreements will increase your trade tech, economic reforms will boost your infrastructure, etc. Roleplay will not be applied until the second turn, however, so as to give players enough time to build a reasonable framework before the bonuses kick in and begin to skew power.

Events are added, removed and altered over the course of game, and serve to spice things up via the power of God.

==Vassals==

Vassals are states that have become subjugated by yours in some way. They pay you 10% of their GDP as they hand out generous bonuses. They will support you in disputes and aid you militarily, generally.

To peacefully vassal a free nation, give them 100% of their GDP. You can get away with paying less if you have a stronger Cultural value - every 1% you have over theirs cuts 1% off. However, you must always pay at least 10%.

To coup a nation, order a coup staged via espionage.

Conquered nations can allow the previous government to stay in power, making them a tributary, or you can install a new, very loyal government via a coup.

Vassals have several grades of loyalty, based on how they were obtained:

-Tributary(Trib): Subjugated under threat of force, these states yearn to break free. Conquering a country and leaving the government be counts as tributary, and has the bonus of no civil war. They will break off if you are at war, based on their military strength vs. yours. Remember the Aztecs, and then remember to use this option sparingly. Can be purchased by another state.
-Ally(Pax): These states are purchased as vassals, and can be viewed as investments. They will break off if they reach 50% of your GDP. Can be be purchased by another state.
-Coup(Coup): These changed government as a result of a black op or a random coup. Some coups naturally occur each turn, obscuring who was targeted and who was not. Couped nations have a 25% chance of descending into civil war.
-Revolution(Rev): Imposed by a successful revolt. They will never abandon you, short of being couped.

You CAN submit orders for your vassals. IMPLIED orders may or may not be executed; specific ones are best as it helps with my memory.

===Black Ops===

A more covert means to project power, ops can be strategically very useful.

Spies cost 10 gold per unit, being some of the finest individuals your nation can offer. Everyone starts with 5 spies by default.

Espionage missions are determined by numbers * skill vs. their numbers * skill, like in battle.

The number of spies determines damage, whereas technology assists in success. Base modifers are as follows:

-Defender has at least 20% chance of foiling the enemy; this is NOT added onto what they have
-Defender can only lose half their agents per attack; attacker can lose ALL of their agents.
-Whichever side wins gets its number of agents present in ESP tech. Whichever side loses gets the number of enemies it killed in tech. By default, 20% of each side's numbers are removed from the other's.

This system is meant to favor the defender. Human players should use their wealth to build a strong spy network, even if for defense.

With the Greek salad out of the way, the actual missions; you can only perform 4 per turn to cut down on turn times:

-Counterespionage. Default mission; there is no need to specify they are on such.
-Sow Discontent. Increases enemy revolt risk by 2%. Can be done multiple times for a total possible increase of 8%. If pooled with allies, your efforts can seriously destabilise an enemy regime.
-Incite riots. If successful, triggers a revolt and whatever would result from it. Your government can determine it is foreign in nature for balance purposes.
-Stage coup(NPCs only). Overthrows a country's government and installs one loyal to you.
-Steal tech. Gives you half the difference between your tech and the enemy's, in ALL categories.
-Destabilise economy. Your agents basically work to strengthen corruption and steal funds from your enemy. You knock out anywhere from 1-5% of their Infrastructure.
-Fund Resistance. If your enemy has occupied a nation and is encountering rebels, you can finance them. You must first slip past their spies; so long as one spy survives, your donation will not be confiscated.
-Steal Plans. Gives you a rundown of their orders, missions, and other secretive activities for the turn.

==Banks and the Stock Market==

There are five banks, powerful, quasi-national entities that operate out of their own city-states.

NPCs are generally favorable towards these banks and will protect them from assault, particularly if they are shareholders. Banks are apolitical generally and will give loans to everyone, they will loan you up to 20% of your net income(you can thus borrow 100% if you rally all the banks), or 10% of their liquid assets, whichever is less. Banks charge 10% on the loan, and will automatically take a portion of your income each turn to pay it off unless you are at war. You can deposit your money in the bank to collect a 5% interest rate.

Defaulting on your loans is doable, but that bank will refuse to do business with you. Defaulting when you have money to pay the loan back is the ultimate transgression, and NONE of the banks will do business with you.

Banks also have public shares that are traded every 24 hours. Orders for share purchases and sales lock and unlock automatically, so make sure your choice is final before ordering it. The stock market offers a minigame between updates, but also a chance to use soft power: if you can rally control of the bank, you can determine its rates and who can and can't get loans out of it.

Shares change anywhere from -4 to 8% per 24 hour period. NPCs will not buy shares from you except for 95% of their value, and will not sell them except for 105% of their value. Shares can be demanded in a peace treaty, naturally. When you own shares, you do not vote on the proposals unless you have control; your country already has a representative who votes based on your nation's interest; this keeps the mechanic flowing smoothly. For example, your representative will use your shares to vote against loans to your enemies.

The home country of the bank controls 25% of each bank by default.

==Victory Conditions==

These do not become effective until Turn 10.

Domination: There are 48 Regions. (Denmark-Zealand-Norway/Sweden counts as one for future reference) Islands are their own regions. Control 10 regions to declare victory.

Cultural: Have 20% of the game's culture value.

Military: Have 20% of the game's land military value.

Economic: Have 10% of the game's GDP.

Trade: Control at least one of the five strategic waterways(Suez, Gibraltar, Bosphorus, Zealand, Calais), have 10% of the game's naval value OR 10% of the world's trade tech value.

Diplomatic: Have 33% of the NPCs as your vassals.

==Further Notes==

Every update, there will be 72 hours to compile your RP, give orders, etc. The next 24 hours will be the lock period, where you must PM me your full orders. Note that if your orders are strewn across multiple PMs, I will ignore all but the last PM. If you must ever redo your orders, make sure to include everything from prior ones; this saves my time immensely.

Updates will be at the IOT Boards. (http://imperiumofftopicum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=impmed&thread=82&page=1#1594) Your roleplay and such is to be kept here; you may post full, actual orders at the IOT boards if you so wish, but it is not mandatory. Roleplay and diplomacy are to be kept on CFC so as to ensure everyone can read and respond in one place; think of CFC as the room where general exchanges are made, and the IOT Boards as where the final decisions are made.

My responsibilities to you are to try my best to update regularly and inform you of any mechanics changes. My rights include being able to ban disruptive players from the game, change the map, rules, etc. While I theoretically hold supreme power in the scope of the game, I try my best to be fair.

Your responsibilities to me are to take heed of GM warnings, behave responsibly(respect thy fellow forumers, etc.), and give me a regular set of orders or a general plan to follow. Also avoid spam that is unrelated to the game. Also, please use the edit button if you need to add notes within a short time after your last post; it keeps the thread from being flooded.

I will note if you are on vacation, but please notify me if you will be away; it is very disruptive to leave a game without any notification. Nations that persistently miss updates will be NPC'd at first but eventually dismantled.

I will create a FAQ, but if any questions are given that are blatantly in the rules, I will ignore them and tell you, well, to read the rules. :p

The GM is usually available for live chat at IOT Chat (http://imperiumofftopicum.chatango.com/) if you desire more quick responses to questions and concerns. If you use the chat, I suggest maintaining confidentiality, though I will try my best to delete posts containing sensitive information.

==Signing Up==

Read the rules. Your signup counts as having read the rules and having agreed with them.

Choose 20 provinces.

Fill out your nation bio as you see fit. However, please include these parameters:

-Nation Name
-Dominant religion
-Social Policy(from 1-5; 1 is very liberal, 5 is very authoritarian)
-Economic Policy(from 1-5; 1 is hands off, 5 is heavily planned)

These parameters help determine NPC relations towards you.

Reserved for FAQ; you may now post

I get the twenty provinces in Catalonia+Aragon+Castile and León+Galicia+Navarre+Basque Country. Although that region is an abomination (and the whole peninsula).

-Name: Ebria
-Religion: Catholicism
-Social policy: 3
-Economic policy: 2

Cypriot Empire

Capital: Nicosia (Eastern Cyprus)
Government: Enlightened Absolutist Empire
Leader: Emperor Nikodemos Aegeus II
Language: Greek
Social Policy: 3- Moderate
Economic Policy: 1- Laissez-Faire
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Currency: Cypriot Aureus
Foriegn Policy: Expansionist
Religion: Cypriot Catholicism
Following the Great Plague that brought untold ruin & devastation to Europe, Cyprus, like most areas, was in dissarry. The ruling government had collapsed, leaving a power vaccumn at the top of Cypriot Society- a power vaccumn that many struggled to fill. The cities of Cyprus spent the next several years fighting petty wars, until the charismatic King of Nicosia, Nikodemos Aegeus I, won a great victory against the forces of the Kyrenia-Famagusta alliance. With the Kyrenia-Famagustan armies in full retreat, Nikodemos Aegeus I pressed onward, quickly demolishing the remains of the fleeing army & securing the Cities of Famagusta & Kyrenia for Nicosia. Now controlling a full half of the island, Nikodemos marched his men south to take the wealthy trading port of Limassol. The allied states of Larnaca & Paphos, cut off from each other, saw the writing on the wall, and offered to surrender to Nicosia on the condition they remain vassals nominally in control of their remaining territory; Aegeus refused, and launched a two-pronged strike on the Larnaca-Paphos alliance, quickly annexing them & uniting Cyprus under his wise rule. The King, however, had great ambitions beyond the shores of Cyprus- his desire was to build an Empire to rival those of Caesar & Charlemange.

His first target was the historic city of Rhodes; in what would come to be known as the Dodecanese Campaign, he quickly subjugated the islands of Karpathos & Kasos, before moving onto the island of Rhodes itself. The city successfully held off Aegeus's forces for several months, until Cypriot spies bribed the city guards, allowing Aegeus's troops to swarm into the city. With Rhodes secure, Nikodemos turned his attention to the much larger island of Crete. The bloody war of subjugation lasted nearly a year, but after the conquest of Heraklion, the rest of the island could not deny the truth any longer & surrendered to Cyrpus. With the southern Aegean firmly under his rule, Nikodemos left with the bulk of his forces & launched a Campaign to conquer the Ionian Islands. Cythera, the closest island, quickly surrendered to Cyrpus; The islands of Zante, Leucas, Paxos, Antipaxos, & Corfu fell shortly afterwards. The islands of Cephalonia & Ithaca put up the most effective resistance, repulsing the first few invasion forces Nikodemos sent against them. After the humiliating battle of Kastro, in which an Ionian Army under the command of Kyrillos Lysias defeated a Cypriot force nearly three times its size, it seemed that the Ionians might be able to successfully resist the forces of Cyrpus; Nikodemos, however, refused to give up & could not bare such a stain upon his honor, and so, one month after the rout, he personally lead an army twice the size of the one lost at Kastro onto Cephalonia; the fighting was brutal, but in the end the Cypriot forces proved triumphant, and the islands of Cephalonia & Ithaca surrendered to Cyrpus shortly afterwards.

Now Cyprus was in control of two relatively large islands- Crete & Cyrpus itself- and a host of smaller islands; still, however, Nikodemos was not satisfied. Setting his sights further west, he eyed the Island of Sicily- the largest island in the Mediterranean, and the gateway between her western & eastern portions; controlling the island would give Cyprus quite a bit of influence in Mediterranean shipping. After diplomatic attempts to incorporate the island failed, the King launched a punitive invasion; the Sicilian Wars, as they would come to be called, lasted ten years, with Cyrpus alternatively gaining & losing territory with each war. These wars came to an end with the decisive Siege of Palermo, after which Sicily surrendered unconditionally to Cyprus. The King, never tiring of conquest, then launched simultaneous invasions of Sardinia & Corsica; the islanders put up heroic resistance- in particular, using the islands' mountanous terrain to great effect- but they too, soon fell to the might of Cyprus. Now Nikodemos, in control of a vast nation, abolished the Kingdom of Cyprus- which he himself had founded- and Declared the Cypriot Empire, with himself as Emperor. Seeking to expand his Empire further, Nikodemos, through the use of some very obsure- some say forged- documents, was able to establish a.... tenuous... Cypriot claim to the Balearic Islands & Ceuta; the major powers of the region, too focused on each other to care about the Cyrpiots, left the City-States of the Balears & Ceuta to their fates. Ceuta & the Balears were conquered soon afterwards, & Cyprus was now the uncontested master of the Mediterranean.

Enlightenment ideals arrived in Cyprus shortly after Nikodemos Aegeus II rose to power; embracing them whole-heartedly, the new Emperor began a series of social & economic reforms giving much greater freedom to the populace. Now, as the various states of Europe recover from the devastating plague & begin a new era of expansion, Cyrpus is poised to enter a golden age unlike any yet seen.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/Thalein/StartingTerritories-17.png

Claim Greece, Istanbul and W. Minor Asia.

The Roman Empire:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g394/christos200/80px-Flag_of_Palaeologus_Dynasty_svg.png

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g394/christos200/85px-CoA_of_Palaiologos_Dynasty_svg.png

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g394/christos200/uLCft.png

Nation Name: Rome
Dominant religion: Greek Orthodox Christianity
Social Policy(from 1-5; 1 is very liberal, 5 is very authoritarian): 5
Economic Policy(from 1-5; 1 is hands off, 5 is heavily planned): 5
Government: Absolute Monarhcy, Theocracy
History:
In 1453 the Pope managed to persuade the European Kingdoms to help the Roman Empire. After the Turks were defeated by the European armies, Constantine re-organized the Empire, the Army and the navy. Meanwhile the Ottoman Empire was in crisis and the Romans managed to take over W. Minor Asia. Constantine's son, Justian IV, invaded Greece and took it over, while he denounced the union of the churches. Current Emperor is Michael VI.

The Celtic Union of Holy Kingdoms

Government: Union of Monarchies.
Leader: the Great King Illiam II
Economy: Mercantile.
Religion: Celtic Catholicism
Seat of power: Dublin, Ireland.
Second capital: Peel in the Isle of Man.
Social Policy: 4
Ecomonic Policy: 3
History: with the chaos the Irish kingdoms were united under Illiam I, the first Great King. His son Paul would then claim the Isle of Man, Wales and parts of Scotland, all in the blessing of the Celtic Catholic Church. Now Illiam II aims to prove his worth in hope of uniting the Celts and becoming the dominant power in Europe.

Below are the claims

322315

Post updated with History.

The Sultanate
From the Ashes we rise

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7223/alandalusflag.png

Government: Absolute Monarchy under the Sultan
Leader: Sultan Muhammad IV of the Sultanate
Economy: Trade with all Muslims, dont with any non-muslims
Religion: Islam
Capital and Seat of power: Granada
Social Policy: 5
Ecomonic Policy: 4
History: When the Second Great Plague destroyed the many nations of Europe, Islam had a resurgency in Iberia. First starting from Granada, but rapidly expanding outwards, the Sultanate has made its mark on Spain. It is only a matter of time before the Islamic communities of the world are reunited under the watchful gaze of the Sultanate.

Claims and world map: I am yellow.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322332&d=1338412268

Starting Post mostly updated; I am assuming the Balearic Islands are 3 territories instead of one. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11534345&postcount=4)

Flag & History probably up tomorrow.

The Republic of Batavia


Flag: http://i.imgur.com/I3hDG.png
Government: Confederal Republic
Leader: Stadhouder William of Orange
Economy: Mercantile
Religion: Protestantism
Seat of power: Amsterdam
Social Policy: 3
Ecomonic Policy: 1
History: After the Chaos, the towns and villages of the Low Countries banded together under Stadhouder William of Orange, who plans to spread the Enlightenment of the Batavian Republic across Europe.

Claims:
http://i.imgur.com/lCdvg.png

New world map, fully updated.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322332&d=1338412268

I assume that Tambien has absurdly pathetic geographic skills and the I am the yellow blob nowhere near where I really am.

That's Tambien's Granada

I assume that Tambien has absurdly pathetic geographic skills and the I am the yellow blob nowhere near where I really am.
I assume that JoanK doesn't read signup posts and so doesnt know that the yellow blob is me, the Sultanate.

Then I assume that Tambien doesn't read them either, or he would have bothered doing a world map which actually includes all the nations. And "The Sultanate" could be anywhere in Turkey or the Middle East or North Africa.

The Merchant Republic of Andorra

http://i.imgur.com/QpAl1.png

some form of Protestantism
Social: 2
Fiscal: 1

Your Spanish provinces have been claimed by JoanK, AA

I didn't see them on a map.

Not only that, but your map is out of date.

EDIT: Thats because, as usual, Joan refuses to make a map.

That's why I was complaining... :rolleyes:

Nevermind

I started my map after Momo posted. I guess I could relocate to Venice, but I want Andorra and not a budding war.

Joan, make a map next time!

AA, read the posts next time :p

Posts are for reading after I reserve my nation, I only look at images.

You know, because I'm hurrying?

Reserving the Baltic region, post coming soonish.

Austria

http://i.imgur.com/CXXqV.png

More later

So it only applies to Joan I see.

Austria

http://i.imgur.com/CXXqV.png

More later

So it only applies to Joan I see.
red, he did call Venice...

I guess I could relocate to Venice, but I want Andorra and not a budding war.

Technically he did not.

http://i.imgur.com/u733x.png

Map of the Baltic Union.

The Papal States

Take Rome and as much of Italy as we can get, obviously excluding the ports that other nation already has.'

Religion: Catholic (Duh)

We are willing to allign with any Catholic states, and are willing to enter Diplomatic relations with the Orthodox. We are also willing to discuss theological issues, and hope you will return to the Church.

http://i.imgur.com/HJhrm.png
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Social: 4
Economy: 3
Religion Roman Catholic
more later.

Oh, as for social and economic, 4 on both for the Papal States.

We recommend to all Roman Catholic nations to have at least a 3 in both stats, as 1 or 2 leads to anarchy, exploitation, and a lack of moral standards. However, you can ignore this and still remain faithful members in the Church.

We assume all Catholic nations are in communion with the Holy See, and we request alliance will all of them.

We wish to discuss the possibility of reunification with our Orthodox brothers.

Let everyone else be anathema.

Technically he did not.

And I technically did not say I will rip out your entrails and have a snowball fight with them.

The Avignon Papacy

-

http://i.imgur.com/20KpO.png

-

Come see how a real Catholic pontificates, only in Avignon, seat of the true successor of Peter in exile. For an Antipope, a closeted protestant, illicitly occupied Rome and started messing up the place with his lavish "bunga bunga" parties, his lack of control over his 13 morally degenerate bastard children and his general lack of knowledge on sacred liturgy and the holy rites of the Catholic religion. Now after years of antipapal rule, Rome is ripe for the retaking, and with the rising of the Church Militant the antipopes occupying Rome in the persona of peasants in some arthurian collective shall be aired out and banished to the abyss in the name and power of Our Lord Jesus Christ through the intercession of the Holy Archangel St Michael and all the saints, now and for time everlasting!

-

Government: Papacy
Religion: Catholic
Social Policy: 4
Economic Policy: 2
Currency: The Ducat
Foreign Policy: Inscrutable
Colour: Roman Purple

The Celts will observe the Papal's law but we warned: if thee does not seek to the moral standing that you require then we are always willing to create a Celtic Anti-Pope.

We wish to discuss the possibility of reunification with our Orthodox brothers.

The Roman Empire still remembers the Fourth Crusade. We shall have diplomatic ties, but no reunification.

The Celts will observe the Papal's law but we warned: if thee does not seek to the moral standing that you require then we are always willing to create a Celtic Anti-Pope.

The Holy See is pleased that you will be recognising the law of the Holy Church. We warn you however against associating with the apostate hell-spawn currently occupying the holy city. They are demonic hellspawn in clerical clothing, roaming about the world bringing ruin to the faith through their incompetence and ignorance, and to the nations bringing corruption as a great harlot, pouring out her prostitution upon the unwary.

Kingdom of Georgia

http://i.imgur.com/oenN0.png

Government: Absolute Monarchy
Ruler: King Solomon I
Religion: Byzantine Orthodox Christianity
Social Policy: 3
Economic Policy: 2
Currency: Tetri

The Holy See is pleased that you will be recognising the law of the Holy Church. We warn you however against associating with the apostate hell-spawn currently occupying the holy city. They are demonic hellspawn in clerical clothing, roaming about the world bringing ruin to the faith through their incompetence and ignorance, and to the nations bringing corruption as a great harlot, pouring out her prostitution upon the unwary.

Illiam II observes this warning. He will strive advice from our clerics on the matter.

The Avignon Papacy

-

http://i.imgur.com/20KpO.png

-

Come see how a real Catholic pontificates, only in Avignon, seat of the true successor of Peter in exile. For an Antipope, a closeted protestant, illicitly occupied Rome and started messing up the place with his lavish "bunga bunga" parties, his lack of control over his 13 morally degenerate bastard children and his general lack of knowledge on sacred liturgy and the holy rites of the Catholic religion. Now after years of antipapal rule, Rome is ripe for the retaking, and with the rising of the Church Militant the antipopes occupying Rome in the persona of peasants in some arthurian collective shall be aired out and banished to the abyss in the name and power of Our Lord Jesus Christ through the intercession of the Holy Archangel St Michael and all the saints, now and for time everlasting!

-

Government: Papacy
Religion: Catholic
Social Policy: 4
Economic Policy: 2
Currency: The Ducat
Foreign Policy: Inscrutable
Colour: Roman Purple

:rotfl: Oh my goodness, Jehoshua actually decided to go Protestant (Well, sort of:p)

We condemn this "New" Papacy, and announce that only through the Holy See of Rome (May God's Mercy rest on the Orthodox) can Salvation be attained. The antipope in Avignon is a heretic, apostate, and is damned along with everyone who follows him. May he and his lies be judged by the Holy Father and the Holy Mother, who know all truth.

@Christos- The Orthodox have a rich understanding of Church Tradition, and this is admirable, however, their fatal flaw is that they hold a Book, The Holy Bible, and the Tradition of Men over the timeless, forever infallible teachings of the Church.

The horrors of the Crusades upon the Orthodox were never ordered by the Holy See, but by military commanders at the sight, which the Pope, who was in Rome the entire time, was not. These men went against the Will of the Church, and died outside of it. Only God can help them now. You, on the other hand, are still alive, and still have hope to join the one Timeless, Infallible Church that brings Salvation.

We request, in addition, that Eastern Catholics be given the freedom to practice their religion without interference. In return, we shall allow our Orthodox brethren to do the same.

Screw it, I'm vikings.

Vikingstan
http://i.imgur.com/EP5Pl.png
Religion: freakin Cthulhu
Social: 2
Economic: 2

We condemn this "New" Papacy, and announce that only through the Holy See of Rome (May God's Mercy rest on the Orthodox) can Salvation be attained. The antipope in Avignon is a heretic, apostate, and is damned along with everyone who follows him. May he and his lies be judged by the Holy Father and the Holy Mother, who know all truth.

Behold the heretical demon spawn who occupied Rome, behold him who sows error and sin through the world. For in the very breath he proclaims the Holy Church and the true successor of Peter apostate, he sows the grievous and most pernicious error of a "Holy Mother". A false Goddess whom the apostate antipope would make equal with Our Lord! This heretic is worshipping another deityand making an equal to the glory of the God the Father! His very words therefore show the falsehood of his slanders against us and his perfidy and reveal the occupiers of Rome for the apostate instruments of the enemy that they truly are.

The Holy See urges all the faithful, who would uphold the timeless teachings of the Apostles to stand with the magisterium both in spirit and in material effort in the great objective to cast down this throne of impiety that the apostates have raised up in the very see of blessed Peter was established to enlighten the world.

The Orthodox have a rich understanding of Church Tradition, and this is admirable, however, their fatal flaw is that they hold a Book, The Holy Bible, and the Tradition of Men over the timeless, forever infallible teachings of the Church.

The horrors of the Crusades upon the Orthodox were never ordered by the Holy See, but by military commanders at the sight, which the Pope, who was in Rome the entire time, was not. These men went against the Will of the Church, and died outside of it. Only God can help them now. You, on the other hand, are still alive, and still have hope to join the one Timeless, Infallible Church that brings Salvation.

We request, in addition, that Eastern Catholics be given the freedom to practice their religion without interference. In return, we shall allow our Orthodox brethren to do the same.


We shall give Catholics freedom of Religion, but conversion of Orthodoxs to Catholics is punished by death.

Also lets talk about the Pope helping the enemies of the Empire (Franks), declaring a state and crowning a Barbarian ''Emperor of the Romans''.

:popcorn:

Why are you guys talking about ancient history?

Because we like ancient history.

Behold the heretical demon spawn who occupied Rome, behold him who sows error and sin through the world. For in the very breath he proclaims the Holy Church and the true successor of Peter apostate, he sows the grievous and most pernicious error of a "Holy Mother". A false Goddess whom the apostate antipope would make equal with Our Lord! This heretic is worshipping another deityand making an equal to the glory of the God the Father! His very words therefore show the falsehood of his slanders against us and his perfidy and reveal the occupiers of Rome for the apostate instruments of the enemy that they truly are.

The Holy See urges all the faithful, who would uphold the timeless teachings of the Apostles to stand with the magisterium both in spirit and in material effort in the great objective to cast down this throne of impiety that the apostates have raised up in the very see of blessed Peter was established to enlighten the world.

:rotfl: This is like a proxy argument, Jehoshua is trying to be me (Taking it a bit far:p) and I'm trying to roleplay a Catholic:)

The Holy Mother is not God, rather, she is Mary, the Mother of God. (I can't stand this Catholic terminology OOC:p)

We have heard that the pope in Avignon says never to pray to the saints, but to pray to God alone. Is this the truth? Indeed, we think the French Pope does not properly understand the doctrine of intercession.
We shall give Catholics freedom of Religion, but conversion of Orthodoxs to Catholics is punished by death.

Fair enough, although we would certainly condemn your fast and loose use of the death penalty. The Papal States does not have a death penalty except for those who absolutely refuse to repent from their crimes. The ordinary punishment for converting a Catholic to Orthodoxy is deportation to an Orthodox country. However, if he persists in converting people in prison as well, death would be the only possible punishment.

What did you think Christ meant when he said "The gates of Hell will not prevail against it (The Church)?
Also lets talk about the Pope helping the enemies of the Empire (Franks), declaring a state and crowning a Barbarian ''Emperor of the Romans''.[/QUOTE]

Why are you guys talking about ancient history?

Because we like ancient history.

Indeed.

We should point out that the only True Christian Churches are the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. All others are not true Christians. Any who are in Avignon's "Church" have no access to the Sacraments, and will most definitely be damned, unless they repent.

Let all who are in communion with the See of Rome declare their allegiance.

Actually, why are you guys talking about irrelevant human actions from a mere 700 years ago? Cthulhu has lived for eons and you bicker about centuries.

We should point out that the only True Christian Churches are the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. All others are not true Christians. Any who are in Avignon's "Church" have no access to the Sacraments, and will most definitely be damned, unless they repent.

We Celtic Catholics want to be sure our cultured way of serving the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit is respected. We will pledge our service to God. We do not need to pledge our service to the Pope but we will observe the Pope's word. We Celts are a free holy people. We will only be chained by the son of the Holy Mother and our Great King, who has been chosen by God to protect the holy word.

Why are you guys talking about ancient history?

We Celtic Catholics want to be sure our cultured way of serving the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit is respected. We will pledge our service to God. We do not need to pledge our service to the Pope but we will observe the Pope's word. We Celts are a free holy people. We will only be chained by the son of the Holy Mother and our Great King, who has been chosen by God to protect the holy word.

The True Pope? Or that liar in Avignon?

You don't pledge your service to the Pope, that's blasphemy. You pledge to God, and his Church.

Eastern Catholics have their own culture in the liturgy without compromising their faith, although obviously the Orthodox who rule those countries do limit their ability to witness Christ.

You can certainly form a liturgical procedure of your own culture as long as Christ is foremost glorified, and the Eucharist remains the same, as it does throughout ALL the Catholic Churches (Of course, Avignon's Catholicism isn't real:))

The True Pope? Or that liar in Avignon?

You don't pledge your service to the Pope, that's blasphemy. You pledge to God, and his Church.

Eastern Catholics have their own culture in the liturgy without compromising their faith, although obviously the Orthodox who rule those countries do limit their ability to witness Christ.

You can certainly form a liturgical procedure of your own culture as long as Christ is foremost glorified, and the Eucharist remains the same, as it does throughout ALL the Catholic Churches (Of course, Avignon's Catholicism isn't real:))

We Celts do not care for the petty mortal politics of those seeking the title of Pope. We are a warrior people. However we are but children to the Holy Mother and pledge our services to her child. We are willing to demonstrate that we are Catholics without pledging oath to the Pope: we will offer some of our finest warriors as bodyguards. We Celts are re-exploring our routs, so our warriors will have blue dye placed on them and spiked hair. Fear not: they will not charge into battle bare... unless the will of God be they do... but their sight will detare any assassin, as to get to the Pope they must first get through the warriors of the Celtic peoples.

And we have battle axes.

WOOP WOOP WOOP

Obviously the Pope from Avignon is quite wiser and more versed in Catholic practice. Therefore, Catalonia pledges alliance to the true voice of God on Earth, and will immediately send a diplomatic mission to Avignon. :p

And we have battle axes.

WOOP WOOP WOOP

Both our warrior peoples are equal in power. Let us make a Pact of Brotherhood, demonstrating our glory as warriors... and as humble children in front of the Holy Mother and God.

This will be my first game. I hope. I have no clue what some of this stuff is, ie "Social policy 3" and how it applies to the game, unless I missed it in the rules post. Now, I will do what I can to get started, if I mess anything up please tell me. However, I would like to be The Aachen-Dusseldorf Proxy-Princeship:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8010/civfanaticsimperiamedit.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/civfanaticsimperiamedit.png/)

Netherlands, we are in for a good time...unless, you know, we can diplo and stuff :mischief:

As this is my first game, I expect to be treated as a noob, with both the amazing tongue-lashing and the extra help getting started. So I know enough to do this:

Capital: Aachen/Dusseldorf
Government: Dual-Princeship
Leader: Princes Heinz and Otto von Umlaut
Language: German
Social Policy: 3- Moderate
Economic Policy: 3- Moderate
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Currency: The Mark
Foriegn Policy: Restorationist
Religion: Roman Catholicism- Papist Avignon
History:
After the second plague struck Europe, driving its nations into chaos, brothers Heinz and Otto von Umlaut saw opportunity. Heinz lived in their ancestral home in Dusseldorf, while Otto was stranded in Aachen after moving there for a governmental position- which was no longer required, as there was no government to report to. Contrary to popular belief, much of Western Germany was Catholic, so when the plague hit, these brothers saw opportunity- they could restore the faith to all of Deutschland!

The two took their remaining wealth as minor aristocracy and bought the loyalty of some local peasantry in both Aachen and Dusseldorf. Those many bought spades provided just enough leverage for the Umlauts to take control of their respective cities' garrisons, who were desperate for a leader to give them a purpose. Soon, all of Western Germany looked within their grasp, and the two realized they had become royalty in their own right. Rather than battle it out for supremacy, the two decided to look to history for inspiration- how could both rule at once? They immediately decided to copy the ideas of the dual consulship of the ancient Roman Republic- without that pesky Senate to worry about! The two would rule as equals, as would their sons; the one could always veto the other, and consensus was the rule of thumb. May the Umlauts take pity on the souls of the weak!

This will be my first game. I hope. I have no clue what some of this stuff is, ie "Social policy 3" and how it applies to the game, unless I missed it in the rules post. Now, I will do what I can to get started, if I mess anything up please tell me. However, I would like to be The Aachen-Dusseldorf Proxy-Princeship:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8010/civfanaticsimperiamedit.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/civfanaticsimperiamedit.png/)

Netherlands, we are in for a good time...unless, you know, we can diplo and stuff :mischief:

As this is my first game, I expect to be treated as a noob, with both the amazing tongue-lashing and the extra help getting started. So I know enough to do this:

Capital: Aachen/Dusseldorf
Government: Dual-Princeship
Leader: Princes Heinz and Otto von Umlaut
Language: German
Social Policy: 3- Moderate
Economic Policy: 3- Moderate
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Currency: The Mark
Foriegn Policy: Restorationist
Religion: Roman Catholicism- Papist
History: Being edited in as we speak

Welcome to IOT!:)

The social and economic policy does not (I THINK) have a real effect on your nation, but it affects your relation with NPCs (Non-player characters. In any case, 5 is a government that's very involved economically or socially, while 1 is a laissez-faire, Libertarian outlook. Currently, the Roman Catholic Church (Led by yours truly) is recommending scores of at least 3 in both economic and social affairs, because we feel any less will lead to anarchy, and we feel that money and freedom will be put about the Christian faith and morals. Currently, the Holy See itself has a "4" in both scores.

Just a note, the language of the Church itself, and the Papal States, is Latin. Masses in vernacular are being permitted now in order to combat the spread of Lutheranism, but it is not allowed in the Papal States itself, and every parish must provide at least one Latin Mass per week.

The Pope in Avigon is, of course, a liar, and on his way to eternal damnation. We hope you will walk beside us and spread the truth to all nations.

PS: OOC: for those of you who are saying Jehoshua is "More educated in Catholic practice" than me, this is pretty obvious. I'm a Protestant IRL:p

And an aside note, while we as The Church do claim authority on matters of Faith and Morals, we do NOT claim absolute authority on scientific or political matters, unless specifically invoked (And it would take like a Christian World War for that to happen, or perhaps if someone attacked the Holy See:p) so you don't actually have to follow our political suggestions to remain a Catholic in good standing with the Roman See. You are free to set your own politics as it pleases you. We only ask our suggestions be taken into consideration the same way you'd consider the suggestions of any pious bishop.

GhostWriter16, Im not going to quote that since its pretty large. But thanks for the heads up!

I am IRL a Catholic, and although I am not that hard-line now, I was raised in a conservative household, so I can answer pretty much any of your questions.

On that note:
German is the national language, not the language of our churches :lol:

We Celts confess: we speak our own tounges in relation to the Church. We began to felt the word of God was best served in the language of us holy people. Anyhow the word of God was once written in Greek and once before spoken through the tounges of the Hebrew. We are still Catholic but we are of our own path, as destined by God.

What did you think Christ meant when he said "The gates of Hell will not prevail against it (The Church)?

That the Barbarians will not bring down the Holy Church and Rome.

Austria joins the Vikings in being Cthulhu cultists.

Can we please list our religion as Catholic- Papist or Catholic-Avignon, everyone? That makes life so much easier... :goodjob:

Austria? Aren't you supposed to be Catholic? Dammit... :blush: :mad: :( :cry: :confused:

We Celts will only count ourselves as Celtic Catholics. We pledge ourselves to the Holy Mother, to God and our Great King, not to a mortal Pope. We will listen to the words of the Pope(s) though...

The Baltics, naturally, worship the Old Ones.

OOC: for those of you who are saying Jehoshua is "More educated in Catholic practice" than me, this is pretty obvious. I'm a Protestant IRL:pOrly? I had no idea :mischief:

Aight, so when do we get an idea of our population/tech/culture/etc?

When Tani starts the game and posts our stats.

That the Barbarians will not bring down the Holy Church and Rome.

That is a blatant misinterpretation of the text. It means that Satan will not divide the Church and thus conquer it. Christ's Church will stand. Ignatius of Antioch identifies this quite early on as the Catholic Church. Return to her, that by the Grace of God you might have life.

Oh hello, Vikings and Germans. Nice of you to stop by.

momes, I'm up to diplomacy. I am looking towards eastern Germany/Europe, not your direction!

Can we please list our religion as Catholic- Papist or Catholic-Avignon, everyone? That makes life so much easier... :goodjob:

Austria? Aren't you supposed to be Catholic? Dammit... :blush: :mad: :( :cry: :confused:

Why not just "Roman Catholic" or "Avignon Catholic"?

I'm pretty sure that Avignon considers themselves Papist as well.

momes, I'm up to diplomacy. I am looking towards eastern Germany/Europe, not your direction!

The Papal States, naturally, is not looking for much land, we are hoping the loyal Roman Catholic States will help the Papal States stay "Up to date" and defend them if attacked (As such, we would like to sign defense pacts and agreements to share technology with all Roman Catholic nations. We may also be willing to sign DPs with Eastern Orthodox nations on an individual basis.

We hope the followers of the False Prophet of Avignon, who of course has no idea how to argue and thus shouts "Demon-possessed" instead of considering Christ's words about Peter and His Church, will come into the communion of the saints and the faithful of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

I'm gonna make a social group for all Roman Catholic Nations. PM me if you'd like to join (And are Roman Catholic) and I'll invite you.

If you're a Roman Catholic, and you want to join my defense pact and bind your nation to the Church (Which also ensures the support of the Church) join this group (http://forums.civfanatics.com/group.php?do=manage&groupid=805)

Who cares what Avignon considers himself? We both know that he's wrong! ....um...a perfectly viable player in this amazing game

The Umlaut brothers have taken to bickering again, so as their steward I must tell you that any plans for binding alliance shall have to wait until their sought-after knowledge of current realpolitik are fully realized and their map of the world is fully fleshed out.

If you're a Roman Catholic, and you want to join my defense pact and bind your nation to the Church (Which also ensures the support of the Church) join this group (http://forums.civfanatics.com/group.php?do=manage&groupid=805)

Note that you have to PM me to join, as its by invite only. If you're Roman Catholic, and haven't gotten excommunicated, you will be accepted.

Note that you have to PM me to join, as its by invite only. If you're Roman Catholic, and haven't gotten excommunicated, you will be accepted.

I honestly can't tell if you're talking about in-game Catholics or IRL. Either way, I'd like to be in! PM's are for pushays. :D

Unless PMing is part of the process...noob is confused.

The Georgian King supports the re-adoption of the schismatics to the true Orthodox Church.

The Holy Mother is not God, rather, she is Mary, the Mother of God.

We have heard that the pope in Avignon says never to pray to the saints, but to pray to God alone. Is this the truth? Indeed, we think the French Pope does not properly understand the doctrine of intercession.

And again we see the antipope in Rome decieve the nations with his filth. For this "Holy Mother" of his is most definitely NOT our blessed virgin Mary. For it said that this Holy Mother knows all truth. ONLY GOD knows all truth for only God is omniscient and knows all the secret things. His very words therefore show the lie, for in saying this "Holy Mother" knows all truth he reveals his secret worship of a deity other than Our Lord, who is most definitely not the virgin Mary, even if he disguises his apostasy as legitimate veneration towards her.

Furthermore this antipope slanders us in saying the Holy See does not approve of the intercession of saints. The saints are powerful intercessors with Our Lord. The Holy See is the true preserver of the Catholic Faith, not the antipope in Rome.

The Georgian King supports the re-adoption of the schismatics to the true Orthodox Church.

Are you calling US schismatics?

I honestly can't tell if you're talking about in-game Catholics or IRL. Either way, I'd like to be in! PM's are for pushays. :D

Unless PMing is part of the process...noob is confused.

You have to be a Roman Catholic (Ergo, not loyal to the Avignon Pope, but the Roman Pope, which would be us:)) in the game. (RL doesn't matter, I'm a Protestant IRL:p) Its essentially a group swearing that if any non-Roman Catholic state attacks any Roman Catholic state in the group, every nation in the group will declare war on the attacking nation (This does not necessarily go the other way, if you are in the group and you attack someone, you're on your own unless you made an individual deal with a person in the group that will support you) and that if any Roman Catholic nations have a land dispute or other dispute that is likely to lead to war, they will not go to war and instead will request arbitration from the Pope (Us) (And obviously if some Roman Catholic nation just attacks you, you don't have to ask for arbitration, you can go to war. And they'd be excommunicated anyways). We are REQUESTING that all member states give us ten percent of their turnly income and share technological research with us (Since we will not be trying to gain a lot of land, considering our focus is the Church, not land-grabbing) but that's not an explicit requirement, at least not right now.

You do not have to PM us, just tell us your Roman Catholic In the Game and that (In the game) your nation is faithful to the Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the See of Rome, and you will be accepted as members.

The Georgian King supports the re-adoption of the schismatics to the true Orthodox Church.

We're the schismatics? Really? Would you mind interpreting the remarks of Ignatius of Antioch, Augustine, and other Church Fathers about the CATHOLIC Church?

The Pope will remain governor of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, thank you very much. We welcome the Orthodox to reenter communion with the Holy See. They would not necessarily have to give up their Eastern traditions to do so, and could be autonomous as long as ultimate loyalty goes to the Pope.

Are you calling [B]US[ /B] schismatics?

Indeed (This is all in character) the very suggestion that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the Church Christ built is utterly ridiculous. The Pope in Rome is Peter's Successor, and sits on Peter's chair, and is the highest man on Earth. Indeed, our blessed Pope undergoes this role with great humility, but all his diplomats know better, and know of his greatness. We speak on behalf of the Pope when we say the Eastern positions on Original Sin, the Trinity, and Ecclesiology are fundamentally UnBiblical, and contrary to the sacred traditions of the Church Fathers, and of course, the sacred, infallible teaching of the Magisterium.

Conform yourselves, or perish.

And again we see the antipope in Rome decieve the nations with his filth. For this "Holy Mother" of his is most definitely NOT our blessed virgin Mary. For it said that this Holy Mother knows all truth. ONLY GOD knows all truth for only God is omniscient and knows all the secret things. His very words therefore show the lie, for in saying this "Holy Mother" knows all truth he reveals his secret worship of a deity other than Our Lord, who is most definitely not the virgin Mary, even if he disguises his apostasy as legitimate veneration towards her.

Furthermore this antipope slanders us in saying the Holy See does not approve of the intercession of saints. The saints are powerful intercessors with Our Lord. The Holy See is the true preserver of the Catholic Faith, not the antipope in Rome.

Indeed. By "Truth" we were referring to theology. We could say by the same standards that the Pope possesses the Truth. That doesn't mean he knows every single thing imaginable. God's "Knowledge of all" far surpasses Mary's, or anyone else's.

So, since your schism was based on a misinterpretation, can you guys come home now? We are certain our priests will forgive you in the name of Christ and we will restore your Church to communion with Rome

OOC: Erm, as mentioned to others, I would like to stay out of major binding agreements until I am situated in the game. But maybe if you ask for a council in 3-4 turns..?

The Kingdom of Jerusalem would like to point out that this game hasn't even started yet and everyone should calm the hell down.

OOC: Erm, as mentioned to others, I would like to stay out of major binding agreements until I am situated in the game. But maybe if you ask for a council in 3-4 turns..?

That's fine. Just keep in mind the benefits that full membership in the Church's benefits to nations gives.

For the record, which pope are you behind? Or still neutral?

We'd still like to try to get the Avignon "Catholic" heretics back into Christ's Church.

@Tyo- The rise of the Roman See certainly made things a bit "Interesting."

As Ignatius of Antioch says "Those who love Christ will ally themselves with the Bishop." The Pope, the Bishop of Rome, is the highest Bishop on God's Earth. All followers of Christ will ally themselves with him.

OOC: Is anybody planning on posting an updated map? Or will my OCD self have to do it? Using Paint?

Edit: (OOC) figured I should answer your questions. Well, remember my government is rather reactionary, so yes we are nominally Roman Catholic still as that is where our priests and hearts are from. However, new as our government it, official statements have not been issued yet... :assimilate::religion:

EDIT: now I heckza like that smiley duo!! assimilate into our religion...

For now we would like to only be connected through belief.

I kinda don't want obligations this early in the game, in other words.

For now we would like to only be connected through belief.

I kinda don't want obligations this early in the game, in other words.

yeah, what he said.

on that note-- do we use OOC yet?

For now we would like to only be connected through belief.

I kinda don't want obligations this early in the game, in other words.

That would be acceptable. Of course, if you refuse to defend a brother in the faith who is in need, are you really living your faith?

We'll let God answer that question. Just think about it.

Indeed. By "Truth" we were referring to theology. We could say by the same standards that the Pope possesses the Truth. That doesn't mean he knows every single thing imaginable. God's "Knowledge of all" far surpasses Mary's, or anyone else's.

Truth, is Truth is Truth. The Truth is not restricted to mere theology, but extends to the true reality of creation and unto the very nature of God himself. This only God fully comprehends. Your attempts to hide your error are opaque and disgusting, for it seems you cannot even accept the same meaning of Truth as the fathers understood it.

Your reactionary statements to Avignon pointing out your disgusting apostasy, and association of a "Holy Mother" with God the Father as knowing all truth are therefore obvious as the lies they are. For indeed the Antipope who occupies Rome like some impoverished squatter in a splendorous mansion clearly does not know the first thing about the Divine and Catholic Faith. Perhaps he's too busy with his bunga bunga parties or being a closeted protestant.

Wow. I am truly at a loss who to support. :mischief:

Goodness, game hasn't even started yet we're already going the way of DoC with schisms. This'll be grand! :p

Can we please list our religion as Catholic- Papist or Catholic-Avignon, everyone? That makes life so much easier... :goodjob:

I would suggest this. Will make life easier for me. :p

I'm amazed there aren't more Muslim nations!

---

Also, bonus points to Gryffindor Tambien for making the map with some of the earlier nations on it. Points don't apply until after turn 1, though. :p

Also, I realised I didn't detail strategic use of the chokepoint territories. Each one causes your trade tech to grow by 1 point/1% each per turn. Getting blocked from them naturally wounds you.

---

We have 14 players. I traditionally wait until we have 20 before I start, but I'll give it another 24 hours or so while I compose the spreadsheet. You are all slated to start at ~20 income.

The Celtic Catholics will not be of either of Popes. We are our own order of the Catholic way. We Celts are a free holy peoplle. We bow only to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Mother... and our Great King.

The Roman Empire proposes that all Christians ( Orthodox, Catholics, Anti-Pope) should organize a Crusade against the Muslims.

As true Catholics, Ebria recognises the Pope in Avignon as the true Pope, ans that the Roman pope is in fact the antipope.

We may also be willing to sign DPs with Eastern Orthodox nations on an individual basis.

The Roman Empire offers a DP.

The Celts have made a decision of a Pope. We pledge our oaths to the Pope... of the Celtic Catholic Church, David I. Glory to God through our divine people and the Great King Illiam II!

The Georgian King supports the re-adoption of the schismatics to the true Orthodox Church.


Will Georgia accept the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinoupolis as leader of all of the Ortodox Church?

So we now have three popes, one in Avignon, the antipope in Rome and some Archbishop of Canterbury analogue called pope in Ireland :rolleyes:

So we now have three popes, one in Avignon, the antipope in Rome and some Archbishop of Canterbury analogue called pope in Ireland :rolleyes:


David, our Celtic Pope, has requested that the Pope in Avignon could make allaince with the Celtic Catholics as a way to demonstrate the will of God. Just we Celtic Catholics are determined to show the power of our culture. The Great King Illiam II, chosen by God to lead the fair Celtic people, has welcomed this.

The Celtic Pope will be seated in Peel, the Isle of Man.

The Kingdom of Jerusalem would like to point out that this game hasn't even started yet and everyone should calm the hell down.

Seriously.

This religious mess reminds me the Crusades Realpolitic.

Pope Cthulhu would like to second Jerusapope's Popenoucement.

The Bishop of Nicosia has denounced the Catholic Chuch & declared himself head of the Cypriot Catholic Church.

Because 3 Popes isn't enough.

Cyprus should become Orthodox. Orthodox nations will be supported by the Imperium Romanum.

Truth, is Truth is Truth. The Truth is not restricted to mere theology, but extends to the true reality of creation and unto the very nature of God himself. This only God fully comprehends. Your attempts to hide your error are opaque and disgusting, for it seems you cannot even accept the same meaning of Truth as the fathers understood it.

Your reactionary statements to Avignon pointing out your disgusting apostasy, and association of a "Holy Mother" with God the Father as knowing all truth are therefore obvious as the lies they are. For indeed the Antipope who occupies Rome like some impoverished squatter in a splendorous mansion clearly does not know the first thing about the Divine and Catholic Faith. Perhaps he's too busy with his bunga bunga parties or being a closeted protestant.

You act as though the pope himself is the divine agent of faith, which would imply that every word the pope says is accurate, and that if the pope is lacking, you can just pick another one. This is a Protestant mentality. The Church is The Church is The Church is The Church is The Church, no matter who may be at its head.


But, of course, you can only focus on the Pope himself and thus cannot focus on the Truth of the Church.

The Roman Empire proposes that all Christians ( Orthodox, Catholics, Anti-Pope) should organize a Crusade against the Muslims.

According to the current Roman position, the only Christian Churches are the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Avignon's false Church doesn't even have a pretext of Christianity, it focuses its entire faith on a man, the (supposed) failings of the current head of the Roman See. Which, essentially, says that the Truth of the Church is dependent on man. Its not.

Avignon is the living emboidenment of Protestantism, except for the fact that, ironically, they seem to have no real, substantial disagreements with the Church. Nevertheless, we will not work with them, especially if it means honoring them with the title of "Christian."

Are there even any Muslims at present?
The Roman Empire offers a DP.

We accept the generosity of our Eastern brothers.

The Celts have made a decision of a Pope. We pledge our oaths to the Pope... of the Celtic Catholic Church, David I. Glory to God through our divine people and the Great King Illiam II!
So we now have three popes, one in Avignon, the antipope in Rome and some Archbishop of Canterbury analogue called pope in Ireland :rolleyes:

Indeed. I'm with you here:p

Why did you even create a SECOND pope instead of just siding with the Roman See?

Pope Cthulhu would like to second Jerusapope's Popenoucement.

There is no pope of Jerusalem as far as I know. As far as I know, Jerusalem is in communion with the Roman See.

The Bishop of Nicosia has denounced the Catholic Chuch & declared himself head of the Cypriot Catholic Church.

Because 3 Popes isn't enough.

I really hope you're joking, or this is going to be a mess. The Orthodox Church seems to be doing very well right now:p

The Celtic Catholic Church is a honest source of worship. We both only to ourselves, God and our Great King Illiam II.

Illiam II has denounced the Roman Church as "Christains in name only," declaring that "the Celtic Catholics will side with Avignon in any holy conflict against the servents of Cain and Judas."

Are there even any Muslims at present?
The Sultanate can hear you, you know... :( :cry:

The Celts have made a decision of a Pope. We pledge our oaths to the Pope... of the Celtic Catholic Church, David I. Glory to God through our divine people and the Great King Illiam II!

With the election of a false pope and siding with yet another false pope against the true one, you are Hereby excommunicated from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Excommunication denies one of the benefits of the Church, the right to receive the sacraments, last rites, and Salvation itself.

If you return to the Catholic Church in humility, the excommunication will be lifted.

Also, keep in mind that the Avignon Church is also excommunicated, and so has no sacraments, as is any "Fourth" Catholic Pope, if there really is one."

We would like to make clear that the Orthodox Church is NOT under excommunicaton anymore. We are officially lifting our excommunication of the Orthodox Church and its leaders, which was passed 500 years ago. We believe the Orthodox Church is a legitimate Church with genuine doctrinal disagreements. We ask that the Orthodox, as a gesture of goodwill, lift their excommunications against us as well. However, we still hold to the timeless Truth of the Catholic Church, that Salvation is through her, and that the Ordinary means of Salvation is physically joining the Church. (The Church acknowledges that it may be possible to get saved in the Orthodox Church by the mercy of God, but not by human means.)

The Sultanate can hear you, you know... :( :cry:

:mischief:

I can't believe none of you crazy Catholics have acknowledged the only Pope who can even come near to Cthulhu in sheer awesomeness.

dT7tac9h8Gw

Will Georgia accept the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinoupolis as leader of all of the Ortodox Church?
Of course His All Holiness The Ecumenical Patriarch is the leader of the body of the Church.

So, Sonic, whats the plan?? Do we have an ETA of game start?

Screw it.

The Umlaut brothers would like to announce that they have named themselves the right and true Popes. All bow before the Pontifexes Maximuses!

No. They are not.

We recognize the Pope of Avignon as the true Pope and enactor of God's will on earth.

The Sultanate laughs at the morass that is Catholicism.

Screw it.

The Umlaut brothers would like to announce that they have named themselves the right and true Popes. All bow before the Pontifexes Maximuses!

No. They are not.

We recognize the Pope of Avignon as the true Pope and enactor of God's will on earth.

You are heretics. Only through the Roman See can you have life.

The Sultanate laughs at the morass that is Catholicism.

And we laugh at your religion which is devoid of any sacrifice for sins, but instead is focused on the works of man.

The Republic of Bavaria is glad it's Protestant right now

And we laugh at your religion which is devoid of any sacrifice for sins, but instead is focused on the works of man.
We laugh at you ignorant buffoons. At least the Muslim faith is one, and not divided along mortal lines like yours!

We laugh at you ignorant buffoons. At least the Muslim faith is one, and not divided along mortal lines like yours!

*Looks at Sunni/Shiites*

*Looks at Sunni/Shiites*
*Looks at the fact that that divide doesn't exist in Iberia, the only known Muslim nation*

The Republic of Bavaria is glad it's Protestant right now

Oh how Mother Mary would love to pull you out of the pit you insist on throwing yourself into. Return to Christ, and he will set you free.

And, if you need political reasons, you have at least three potential allies in the Roman See, and none whatsoever in Protestantism.

We laugh at you ignorant buffoons. At least the Muslim faith is one, and not divided along mortal lines like yours!

That's because you have only one nation practicing it. As such, there would be no reason for you to divide. Just wait until Islam expands, or by the will of the Lord Jesus Christ, perhaps it will not.

In any case, you are whitewashed tombs. You claim to be good people but you don't believe in the Seven Sacraments, and so have no hope for Salvation unless you be baptized into the Church.

I should point out that, in spite of every bishop and his dog thinking he has Apostolic Authority to say he's a pope and schism off, the Church is not as weak as it seems. There is at least one nation, at present, who is openly loyal to the Church, and there is at least one who has pledged to Avignon who is in fact in secret communion with Rome (Though of course, their identity will remain hidden, to further confuse things for the lying Avignon Pope), and we sincerely believe that if you ever came to a point of daring to attack us, thinking Allah would help you, we sincerely believe our Orthodox brothers are close enough to us that they would never let the Bishop of Rome, even if they disagree with him, fall to Muslims. In short, our friends are many, and our enemies few. True Christians, whether Roman Catholic or Orthodox, control a solid half of the world right now. Muslims are nowhere near.

*Looks at the fact that that divide doesn't exist in Iberia, the only known Muslim nation*

*Looks at the fact that there was a Cataclysm before this, so there were other Muslim countries before yours, yours is just the only one left*

*Looks at the fact that there was a Cataclysm before this, so there were other Muslim countries before yours, yours is just the only one left*
*Looks at the fact that pertinent historical records state that said divide has NEVER EXISTED in the Sultanate*

*Looks at the fact that pertinent historical records state that said divide has NEVER EXISTED in the Sultanate*

*Looks at the fact that this is silly*

This has gotten delightfully ridiculous.

*Looks at the fact that this is silly*
*Looks at the fact that I agree*
This has gotten delightfully ridiculous.
Why yes, yes it has.

This has gotten delightfully ridiculous.

Agreed. If everyone joined the Catholic Church, we wouldn't be having these problems.

, and there is at least one who has pledged to Avignon who is in fact in secret communion with Rome (Though of course, their identity will remain hidden, to further confuse things for the lying Avignon Pope)

Thanks for revealing who it is.

-

also on latin. The Holy See upholds the traditional place of latin in the liturgy, the antipopes attempts to impose the vernacular on the LATIN rite is merely an attempt to protestantise the religion and lead the souls of the faithful into error. For the vernacular leads to worldly intrusions into the divine liturgy, where a liturgical language retains the separation of the sacred from the profane.

Thanks for revealing who it is.

I didn't, and if I'm nothing but a liar, as you claim, why trust me now?


also on latin. The Holy See upholds the traditional place of latin in the liturgy, the antipopes attempts to impose the vernacular on the LATIN rite is merely an attempt to protestantise the religion and lead the souls of the faithful into error. For the vernacular leads to worldly intrusions into the divine liturgy, where a liturgical language retains the separation of the sacred from the profane.

We agree with the heretics on the matter of Latin Supremacy, which is why we require at least one Latin Mass per week to be provided in EVERY Roman Cathoic parish (We do allow Eastern Catholics to use Greek, however.)

However, we also want the less educated to feel they CAN understand the mass so they will KNOW we are teaching the truth, our failure to do this in the past was the very reason for the Protestant Reformation that SHOULD have never happened. We hope by opening up the Liturgy we will shepherd the Protestants back into the Timeless, Catholic Church.

The Sultan's Cartographer Association has issued the following map of the Known World.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322493&d=1338602095

I don't exist on that map, due to me having not posted a map (I haven't gotten a paint program set up yet.) I should be in the Central Italy area, making sure to claim Rome and as many provinces as I can as close to it as I can.

I didn't, and if I'm nothing but a liar, as you claim, why trust me now?

Who says we're trusting you

However, we also want the less educated to feel they CAN understand the mass so they will KNOW we are teaching the truth

Thats why the Church provides education in latin its schools, why leave the uneducated in ignorance when they can be taught knowledge.

1) Someone else needs to make the change, I can't do it ATM.

2) Paint comes with and windows using computer, and Mac too I believe.

*looks at the fact that no one is laughing at Cthulhu*

And gee, you can't help but wonder why.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Cthulhu_and_R%27lyeh.jpg/220px-Cthulhu_and_R%27lyeh.jpg

The Austrian Archduke agrees with it's brethren the Vikings. In other news, Franz Ferdinand has expelled all Serbians from the country.

http://i.imgur.com/diXZj.png

Seriously.

As in, I wasn't joking.

Who says we're trusting you

You just thanked me for revealing it.


Thats why the Church provides education in latin its schools, why leave the uneducated in ignorance when they can be taught knowledge.

We do as well, but some people simply know Italian, and would rather worship in their own language. This isn't intristically disordered or wrong, although it is not recommended. In any case, a vernacular mass in the Papal States is almost unheard of in practice. Other countries can use them though if they want, as long as they provide at least one Latin Mass per parish per week. This is the current position of the Church.

You're arguing over frivolarities, you can't find a single DOCTRINAL issue with the Roman See, but you want to remain in rebellion anyway.

You'll be sorry when you get damned to Hell.

We would like to make clear that the Orthodox Church is NOT under excommunicaton anymore. We are officially lifting our excommunication of the Orthodox Church and its leaders, which was passed 500 years ago. We believe the Orthodox Church is a legitimate Church with genuine doctrinal disagreements. We ask that the Orthodox, as a gesture of goodwill, lift their excommunications against us as well. However, we still hold to the timeless Truth of the Catholic Church, that Salvation is through her, and that the Ordinary means of Salvation is physically joining the Church. (The Church acknowledges that it may be possible to get saved in the Orthodox Church by the mercy of God, but not by human means.)

We lift the excommunications against the Pope.

Of course His All Holiness The Ecumenical Patriarch is the leader of the body of the Church.

We offer a DP.

I am making a Pact of the Sane with Tyo. The Celts would like to do politics AFTER the game starts.

We offer a DP.
Georgia accepts gladly, and sends twenty cases of fine Georgian wine to the Blakhernai Palace.

We thank you.

You're arguing over frivolarities, you can't find a single DOCTRINAL issue with the Roman See, but you want to remain in rebellion anyway.

You'll be sorry when you get damned to Hell.

We oppose you because the Avignon Papacy is the legitimate successor lineage to the throne of St Peter. The Roman Antipapacy illegitately overthrew the true lineage and illicitly took the papacy. This is wh ywe oppose you, because you are no true pope at all and the grace given to the pope rests with us.

Indeed there are rumours that protestant reign in Rome, and that secret religious and theological perversions are upheld in the inner circle of the antipapal curia, with the plan being to slowly corrupt the faithful. This is not unreasonable considering your recent theological errors regarding some "Holy Mother", with your theological statements showing either gravely erroneous perceptions of the blessed virgin, or the disgusting exhaltation of another divinity as equal to the one God.

Either way, you are illegitimate, and an imposter claiming headship of the Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Roman Empire laughs at the Catholics.

The Orthodox Roman Empire laughs at the Catholics.

We scoff at the schismatic heretics of the east, who are in thrall to an apostate emperor who would consider himself equal to the Holy Apostles.

The Emperor is equal to the Holy Apostles. The Emperor is Jesus representive in the Earth. As there is only one God in the world, there is only one Emperor in the Earth. The Roman Emperor.

I for one think this mass schism will make geopolitics more interesting; it allows quite a large variety of NPC choices! I'm almost tempted to create dozens of one or two province states just to make this more amusing... :p

Speaking of, I think we have adequate signups. I'll post stuff later today and then we can get started. :)

*Looks at Sunni/Shiites*

*Looks at the fact that that divide doesn't exist in Iberia, the only known Muslim nation*

Oh goodness. :p

The Austrian Archduke agrees with it's brethren the Vikings. In other news, Franz Ferdinand has expelled all Serbians from the country.

:lol:

I'm almost tempted to create dozens of one or two province states just to make this more amusing...
That would be awesome! Just remember to make some Muslims!

We oppose you because the Avignon Papacy is the legitimate successor lineage to the throne of St Peter. The Roman Antipapacy illegitately overthrew the true lineage and illicitly took the papacy. This is wh ywe oppose you, because you are no true pope at all and the grace given to the pope rests with us.

Indeed there are rumours that protestant reign in Rome, and that secret religious and theological perversions are upheld in the inner circle of the antipapal curia, with the plan being to slowly corrupt the faithful. This is not unreasonable considering your recent theological errors regarding some "Holy Mother", with your theological statements showing either gravely erroneous perceptions of the blessed virgin, or the disgusting exhaltation of another divinity as equal to the one God.

Either way, you are illegitimate, and an imposter claiming headship of the Catholic Church.

Since when have Protestants honored Mary as equal to God anyway? Even if your claims about us were true, it would be senseless to call us "Protestant."

That said, this is a petty dispute to the point where we are definitely willing to consider reunification. All we want is for Avignon to humble itself and realize that Rome is, in fact, the seat of St. Peter, and that Avignon never was.

The Orthodox Roman Empire laughs at the Catholics.

The Catholics laugh in kind.

The Emperor is equal to the Holy Apostles. The Emperor is Jesus representive in the Earth. As there is only one God in the world, there is only one Emperor in the Earth. The Roman Emperor.

Ah, equivalizing the State to God. And you thought WE were bad:)

We Catholics need to stick together and disprove such heresies. Unfortunately, the Orthodox are being much more accomodating to the Pope than the Catholic Church is. Its truly sad. We would not be surprised to see more Orthodox than "Catholics" in Heaven when the Final Judgment comes around.
That would be awesome! Just remember to make some Muslims!

And remember to make some NPCs that are actually aware of how Apostolic Succession works:p

While I can't name an example of a Protestant church worshiping Mary, it's accurate to call one that would Protestant because it goes against Catholic doctrine.

So, Sonic said today... its night for me now... see y'all when the clock turns again.

While I can't name an example of a Protestant church worshiping Mary, it's accurate to call one that would Protestant because it goes against Catholic doctrine.

Or Christian doctrine in general.

Alright, finally, I managed to muster the time to look into this.

I'm creating the NPCs; particular hotspots will likely be North Africa and Russia. For larger ones, anyway. City-states can be anywhere and since they don't expand, it all works out. NPCs larger than one province only expand one province per turn.

Papal States, Baltic Union, Austria need to give their social/economic stances. Until then, they derive 0 benefit in NPC relations.

Religious count so far:

Avignon Catholic - 3
Roman Catholic - 2
Byzantine Orthodox - 2
Cthulhu Cult - 2
Sunni - 1
Protestant - 1
Cypriot Catholic - 1
Celtic Catholic - 1
Old Ones Cult - 1

It should be fairly obvious how schisms work; it can divide all nations in a movement, potentially shifting minor states to your side. Religious wars ahoy. :evil:

Our five banks:

Banks are a shade of forest green on the map. They do not expand and hold one city-state. Attacking these city-states is a good way to get an NPC horde(or at the least, every shareholder) against you. Banking cities are also the ONLY ones that shall refuse your vassalisation entirely. If thrown out, the bank will find a new host nation.

-Milan
-Alexandria
-St. Petersburg
-Baghdad
-Porto

Banks begin with 10,000 shares and 1000 gold. They dole out half their profit each turn to shareholders, and they also hold nations' funds and grant loans. For the first 24 hours only, shares cost 1 gold a piece. The yield of shares begins at a 10% dividend(they actually have investments across a wide range of markets), so they're generally a good buy. Every 24 hours, the profitability and share value shift; you can take advantage of this by designating money for stock purchases.

28 NPCs have been created. Their locations should be fairly easy to deduce, but I can clarify if necessary.

Shades of Gray - 5

-France
-Moscow
-Kiev
-Algiers
-Kurdistan

Shades of Gray Blue - 3

Silesia
Serbia
Carthage
Morocco
Tripolitania
Volgagrad
Rostov
Crimea

Shades of Brown-Orange - 2

Benghazi
Basra
Pontus
Cilicia
Transylvania
Zealand

Shades of Blue - 1

Astrakhan
Gdansk
Helsinki
La Rochelle
Minsk
Mecklenburg
Warsaw
Berlin
Smolensk
Novgorod

===

Starting Technologies!

Humans start with 100 in Land, Naval, and Espionage; this prevents zerg rushing. NPCs start with 50 in all three categories. Trade is 1 for everyone; Culture is 100 for everyone. You all start with 5 spies; they will be able to foil 3 attempts total. (First raid can kill 2 of them, next raid can kill 2, final raid kills the last remaining spy). The Banking states, for balance purposes, start with powerful espionage forces, but DO NOT use them in an offensive manner.

I will be sorting religions, economic and social views shortly.

Are any Muslims?

@SonicTH- I already said that both my economic and social scores (With 5 being the most regulatory) were 4.

It's true, bra. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11535728&postcount=34)

I'm afraid I have no clue whatsoever in regards to economics or especially the stock market. Is it possible for someone to explain the stock market here?

You said the first 24 hours; has that started yet? I have not received my population and what not yet. I would thus assume not, but one cannot be too careful.

I'm afraid I have no clue whatsoever in regards to economics or especially the stock market. Is it possible for someone to explain the stock market here?

You said the first 24 hours; has that started yet? I have not received my population and what not yet. I would thus assume not, but one cannot be too careful.
It doesn't start until he has posted something entitled "Turn 0/1" or "Update 0/1" containing the stats for each nation and a fully updated world map.

There are 3 Sunni nations, so a fair share.

@SonicTH- I already said that both my economic and social scores (With 5 being the most regulatory) were 4.

Fixed.

I'm afraid I have no clue whatsoever in regards to economics or especially the stock market. Is it possible for someone to explain the stock market here?

You said the first 24 hours; has that started yet? I have not received my population and what not yet. I would thus assume not, but one cannot be too careful.

It doesn't start until he has posted something entitled "Turn 0/1" or "Update 0/1" containing the stats for each nation and a fully updated world map.

Yeah, this.

First update is up. Link in my sig. =]

1/3 into industry, 1/3 into armies, 1/3 into navy. Expand as much as i can in Egypt.

And I thought I'd be able to get through a few turns peacefully. Hmph.

The Great King of the Celts, Illiam II of House McGill, stood on top of a mighty hill in the Scottish highlands. The claims in Scotland came thanks to Illaim II's father, the second Great King Paul. Now Illiam II was set to claim all of Scotland and hopefully Britian. Of course he would face rivally with the Vikings and who knows what else may decide to try to claim that which belongs to the Celts. The King was hopeful: he had set agreement to the holy request by the Celtic Pope David to set funds into aiding the construction of monesteries to spread the holy word. This influence hoped the Great King would bring as much of the Celtic lands back into control of the Celts. By God the time of the Celts is to be again!

And I thought I'd be able to get through a few turns peacefully. Hmph.

The one who gets Egypt becomes the Major Power. Sorry, but Egypt is Roman and if you attack me, i have allies. You can expand in the rest of the middle east and eastern Anatolia.

To the Imperial Highness of the Roman Empire

I, the son of the great Paul and the grandson and the grand Illiam I, greet thee. I send this message from all the way from the hills of Scotland where I am currently leading a campain most grand to the warm water dressed land of Greece to offer you a trade treatry to allow our merchents grander access to each other. Let us embrace a freindship of glory. We Celtic Catholics will embrace our Orthordox brothers and sisters in the most warm of greetings. Let us be united as a force of grace.

Glory to God which we are all children to.

The Grand King of the Celtic Union of Holy Kingdoms, a union of power most holy, Illiam II of the great House McGill that united Ireland and will unite all the Celts into one great force.

We accept you offer.

The Roman Empire offers a DP and OB to Cyprus.

Dear King of the Crusaders

I, The Roman Emperor, Imperator, Augustus, Imperial Highness, Ceasar, Vasileus, Autokrator, Duke of Athens, Pharaoh, King of the Kings, Emperor of the Emperors, King of Italy, King of France, King of Spain, King of North Africa, King of England, King of the Middle East, Holy Fighter, Holy Apostle, Jesus Christ representive in the Earth and Crowned Emperor by the Holy Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael VI send you this letter to ask you to chose the logical choice, to accept that Egypt is Roman.

Egypt has been Roman for more that 800 years, from Augustus Conquest to the Arab invasion. So we free Imperial Territory. You should accept that Egypt is not yours and try to expand in Iran, Iraq and the rest of the middle East.

We have many and powerful allies. If you bring war in the Empire, it shall be your destruction. We wont attack you. If you want Egypt, then you will have to attack us. That means that you will be the aggressor and the Allied States will wipe you out.

So, for the good of your people and your Kingdom, accept that Egypts is lost. If you accept that, I, the Roman Emperor, shall name you Duke of the Holy Lands and offer you OB and a DP.

We want you as Allies. But if you dont accept that Egypt is a Roman Province, then you shall be lost.

With Respect

Michael VI, The Roman Emperor, Imperator, Augustus, Imperial Highness, Ceasar, Vasileus, Autokrator, Duke of Athens, Pharaoh, King of the Kings, Emperor of the Emperors, King of Italy, King of France, King of Spain, King of North Africa, King of England, King of the Middle East, Holy Fighter, Holy Apostle, Jesus Christ representive in the Earth and Crowned Emperor by the Holy Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople

France, Spain and any nations in Italy, we do not claim your land. This is just our Title.

Nikodemos Aegeus II, Emperor of the Greeks & the Romans, Lord of Cyprus, Crete, Rhodes, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, the Balears, & Ceuta, hereby accepts the Roman offer.

-----

We are not claiming your land, Rome, Emperor of the Greeks & the Romans is just his title.

Sultan Muhammad IV has announced his plans to increase the size, power, and authority of the Islamic faith and its Everlasting Patron- the Sultanate.

Start: 50.2 gold
-10 gold and 2 population (Build 2 Armies)
-40 gold (Infrastructure)
End: 0.2 gold

Expand in the following lands:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=322793&stc=1&d=1338924751

TO Ebria
FROM The Sultanate

Stay out of our home region. Thanks. (Portugal is fair game, southern Spain- MINE)

The Umlaut brothers have named my most humble self Steward Supreme of their lands, tasking me with putting forth general announcements about their plans. The following map was agreed to after much deliberation:
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9385/expansionturn1projectio.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/expansionturn1projectio.png/)
The Umlaut blue is our current borders, the blue slightly lighter than that is our expansion ideas for the near future, and the dark blue is our desired lands. If all nations recognize these claims, no aggression may ever be expected of Heinz and Otto.

The Umlaut brothers wish to re-emphasize their intentions of the restoration of German primacy in central Europe, by the recapturing of ancestral German lands. However, in the name of peace and the better good they are willing to overlook completely any land which has been taken by their most impeccable Austrian neighbors. The Umlauts declare trade and development paramount, although a standing military steeped in tradition shall be maintained in case lesser men dare intrude on this growing center of light and learning in the world.


EDIT: OOC: Umlaut blue is too light, so I am sticking with a darker blue for posts. Aight?

To the most honorable Republic of Batavia:

As your peace-loving neighbors, we fully recognize your right to existence! So much so, in fact, that we would like to ensure your continuing survival through a mutual recognition of Zones of Influence. I as steward have already laid out Umlautian plans for the future, and hope you shall recognize them; if not, then perhaps we can come to an agreement about the division of central Europe.

We also offer Open Borders, with a trade treaty addendum allowing for quick and easy trade between our mutual bustling markets. Umlaut military force shall only by used to police our borders and cities, and you should have no fear of German guns. As a token of our good will, we gift you one of our soon-to-be-had shares in the Bank of Milan.

To bright futures,
Michael Danke, Steward Supreme

Heinz von Umlaut Otto von Umlaut


To his most holy father in Avignon,
We wish to remind you of our devotion to the Lord and His true messenger on Earth. We offer you an Open Borders agreement, as well as open trade between our respective lands. We would also enjoy recognition of our ancestral claims, and of course we offer recognition of any land God requires on earth as declared by your excellency. As a token of our good will, we offer you a share in the Bank of Milan as a gift.

Your humble servants,
Michael Danke, Steward Supreme

Heinz von Umlaut Otto von Umlaut


OOC: Austria- Red Spy- I believe we need to come to some arrangement. :groucho:

Claims

-

http://i.imgur.com/8jJnv.png

-

~ I presume so long as territory is contiguous you can expand via land.

The Celtic Great King, eager to prove his worth as a figure of grand power, sets suggestion of the formation of the Christain Trade Ring, an organisation which can in keeping to holy laws allow the ecomonic growth of all nations of Christaindom. The second son of the Prince Mayor of Belfast, Thomas of House Orman, has been suggested to become the Christain Trade Ring's leader: the Master of the Ring. Let us accept this new order in the name of God!

To his most holy father in Avignon,

We wish to remind you of our devotion to the Lord and His true messenger on Earth. We offer you an Open Borders agreement, as well as open trade between our respective lands. We would also enjoy recognition of our ancestral claims, and of course we offer recognition of any land God requires on earth as declared by your excellency. As a token of our good will, we offer you a share in the Bank of Milan as a gift.

Your humble servants,
Michael Danke, Steward Supreme

Heinz von Umlaut Otto von Umlaut

To The Lords Umlaut

The Holy See in Avignon accepts your generous offer of an open borders arrangement and a free trade deal and is most grateful for any gifts granted unto it by the brothers Umlaut. As to recognition of land claims, the Holy See recognises as right and just all Umlaut claims to the lands of the North German Plain, from Saxony to the border of Poland.

However we cannot at the present time recognise your claims to dominion over all the unclaimed regions of Southern Germania due to the contested nature of these lands between the Holy See, Austria and Umlaut. The Holy See is willing to accede however to Umlauts claims of all areas of this region save Helvetia, which as a transitional region between germanic and romance cultural spheres, and as a major source of pontifical guardsmen should be rightly within our sphere. However Umlaut should endeavour to engage with Austria in regards to other regions in the alpine zone.

Regardless here is a map of the proposed land distributions, with light purple being helvetia the papal claim, with red representing other territorial claims of the Holy See. (other nations excised from map to make things clearer except Batavia, which is collapsing and thus indicated)

http://i.imgur.com/usPvN.png

The Holy See looks forward to closer relations with Umlaut.

~ Pope Clement XIV

His excellency Pope Clement XIV,
This is again Steward Supreme Michael Danke, speaking for the Umlauts.

We fully recognize your right to Helvetia, and shall refrain from invading this land. However, if all of our reconquest is completed and you have unfortunately found yourself unable to take or hold this region for the Lord, the Umlauts shall most definitely appropriate it and hold it for your excellency.

Praise be to God for our open borders and trading agreements; may the light of the Lord forever shine on his blessed land.

Pax Vobiscum,
Michael Danke, Steward Supreme

Heinz Umlaut Otto Umlaut

OOC: Austria- Red Spy- we still have to have that talk ;)

I'm dropping out of this, it's far too complicated for my final exams's brain

Fair enough Momo, feel free to return at some point. :)

Batavia on verge of Civil War! reports the Brussels Post!

Also, stock market update up in my signature.

OOC: Care to explain this civil war at all? Will I be able to devise a system of division with my Viking neighbors, or shall I have to strengthen my patrols? Or is it simply a way to say it is dissolving?

OOC: Care to explain this civil war at all? Will I be able to devise a system of division with my Viking neighbors, or shall I have to strengthen my patrols? Or is it simply a way to say it is dissolving?

Rather than vanishing completely, it means the region will be divided into factions that will cannibalise eachother. Other nations can ignore them, or crush them, at their leisure. :)

Orders shall lock later today. If you have any orders revisions, send me a PM.

Note: you CANNOT cancel any stock purchases you have made, as those lock/unlock as time goes on.

Speaking of stocks, no update since it's too early to really make much difference. I'll be adjusting the numbers but will keep the updates every three days until it becomes large enough there's lots of money to be made.

OOC: So can we expect an update tomorrow, i.e. within 24 hours of your post right above?

Updates take a varying length of time, but this game will test if my MP2 mechanics to see if they improved over MP's long turn times.

Orders will be locking as soon as I wake up in about 9 hours.

Annd orders locked.

==Border Skirmishes==

The Roman and Avignon Papacies have traded blows. The Avignon forces have a 60% chance of victory.

Avignon wins both battles. Both sides lose 2 armies. In total, the skirmishes kill nearly 4,000 men.

Update in sig.

OOC: Very good. It appears this turn has been kind to me. While I ponder my options, would you mind answering a few questions? (remember, I am a total, level 1 noob :( )

1. Has my 5 % resource bonus been factored in already?
2. So Cilicia is my (Coup) Vassal. They are those two brown spots surrounded by Jerusalem in Asia Minor?
3. Is "Vault" under stats our "banked" money from the previous turn?
4. What effect does population density bring about?
5. Is that... Zealand, the NPC to my immediate North? And the one to my East, is that Berlin? Is the larger one beyond it Silesia? EDIT: Zealand is the island; my bad. So what is the NPC where, if this were Europa Universalis, Mecklenburg would be?

Thanks again, and for GMing this.

nevermind.

OOC: nevermind what?

I hope you aren't PO'd at me by those results. Its not like I did anything :dunno:

I said something stupid.

1. Has my 5 % resource bonus been factored in already?

Yes.

2. So Cilicia is my (Coup) Vassal. They are those two brown spots surrounded by Jerusalem in Asia Minor?

Yes. Whether or not you back them up is your decision.

3. Is "Vault" under stats our "banked" money from the previous turn?

Yes. Vault + Revenue is your total money available for spending, plus any loans you may have taken out.

4. What effect does population density bring about?

Pop. density helps me determine how many people you lose with territory, and also determines the chance of a riot/baby boom event. Being less crowded is always better, obviously.

And the one to my East, is that Berlin? Is the larger one beyond it Silesia? EDIT: Zealand is the island; my bad. So what is the NPC where, if this were Europa Universalis, Mecklenburg would be?

East - Berlin

That is Mecklenburg; I forgot to add them to the sheet.

Illiam II’s campaign was going well. Scotland was slowly but surely going Celtic green. Gooder news came in England the Celtic troops were to commence the gaining of more land. To Cornwell would march Illiam II’s eldest son and heir to the throne: Prince Fergal. The second elder son, Prince Comgal, was to commence an invasion of Shetland. The youngest of the three sons, Prince Ennis, would be seeking to march south to unite the Celtic claims lands in the north with Wales. Such would bring glory to the Celts!

Let to Illiam II came a though: Fergal and Comgal were both married to Welsh princesses but Ennis was to let to marry and Illiam II’s only daughter, Princess Africa, was left to have a figure marry her. So Illaim II sets word via a horde of messagers to all the kingdoms of Christendom: two royal figures, a prince and a princess, were up for marriage. Such would bring union to the kingdoms to offer the best marriage partner in the eyes of the Great King of the Celts.

The Roman Emperor is very pleased with the Crusaders and offers a DP.

Roman Orders:

2/3 income into industry, 1/3 into armies. Claim as much of Egypt as i can.

A messanger arrives to the halls of the Roman emperor.

"Greetings. Illiam II of the Celts have issued a notion that his youngest son, Ennis, and his only daughter, Africa, are both unmarried. The Great King wants to correct this. Do you set one of your sons to marry Africa or one of your daughters to marry Ennis? Only one can be picked as to allow stronger bondings within the families of Christendom."

"Greetings. Illiam II of the Celts have issued a notion that his youngest son, Ennis, and his only daughter, Africa, are both unmarried. The Great King wants to correct this. Do you set one of your sons to marry Africa or one of your daughters to marry Ennis? Only one can be picked as to allow stronger bondings within the families of Christendom."


My daughter, Anastasia, will be send to marry Enis. That is a great honor for you. No member of the Imperial Family has married a Barbarian for more than 100 years.

"Anastasia... I will set word to the Great King on this. He will judge Anastasia. From my own word I feel that Anastasia may make a divine wife for Prince Ennis. Glory to God!"

Then the messanger left to bring the Roman Emperor's responce to the Great King of the Celts.

Georgia brings the King of the Romans the following message:
May we have a guarantee of free sailing through the Bosporos and the Darnadellia for all Georgian ships that wish to travel through? This is to promote free trade as well as the possibility for crusades against heathens.

Illiam II sends word to all of Christendom via the messenger horde: he feels that Anastasia may make a divine wife for Prince Ennis and so agrees to the marriage. This blessed marriage will bring closer the Celts and Romans. The marriage is to be held in the Cathedral of St German in Peel, the Isle of Man. There the Celtic Pope himself, David, will wed the royal couple. Glory is to God as a royal and holy union is forged!

In notes of this only Princess Africa remains as the sole unmarried child of the Great King. The Kingdom that agreed to set a figure worthy of being her husband will find themselves as friends of the Celts.

Georgia brings the King of the Romans the following message:
May we have a guarantee of free sailing through the Bosporos and the Darnadellia for all Georgian ships that wish to travel through? This is to promote free trade as well as the possibility for crusades against heathens.


The Roman Emperor accepts.


Illiam II sends word to all of Christendom via the messenger horde: he feels that Anastasia may make a divine wife for Prince Ennis and so agrees to the marriage. This blessed marriage will bring closer the Celts and Romans. The marriage is to be held in the Cathedral of St German in Peel, the Isle of Man. There the Celtic Pope himself, David, will wed the royal couple. Glory is to God as a royal and holy union is forged!


May Rome and Celtia have peace and be allies.

While we will honor your 'claim', we do not wish to be bound to that responsibility.

While we will honor your 'claim', we do not wish to be bound to that responsibility.

Okay. If the Crusaders ever want help, Rome shall help them.

A letter to the honorable Illiam II,
As Steward Supreme of the Umlaut brothers of Aachen-Dusseldorf, I am pleased to respond to your fair messenger. Both brothers Umlaut are in need of wives, and indeed considered marrying among the peasantry before realizing that they now had royal obligation.

So, Prince Heinz Umlaut I is officially offering to wed your most beautiful daughter Africa, on the condition that she accept a rechristening under a more proper, Germanic nomen into a faith more akin to the hearts of the countryfolk. While us enlightened leaders of Aachen-Dusseldorf the enlightened Brother-Princes Umlaut have nothing against your faith, for the sake of the Princeship it would be imperative for Africa to be confirmed in the local faith.

I, and the brothers Umlaut, hope this letter reaches you in good health afore a warm hearth.

Your brothers in Christ (let semantics of faith be ignored),

Steward Supreme Michael Danke

Prince Heinz Umlaut I Prince Otto Umlaut I



OOC: Orders incoming, still digesting my options.

To the Steward Supreme Michael Danke, whose glory is only excited by thee piety.

I am glad that Prince Heinz Umlaut I has taken the desire to make my beautiful Africa his wife. I will permit him as my son-in-law. However I issue note that while Africa will accepts the customs of your peoples... she will in heart always remain a Celt. That said both our peoples are Catholics. Hence she could in theory take in both holy methods the holy way. Both the Celts and those in league with Avignon follow the true word of Christ... as oppose to the fake words from the Papal States. Our union via the marriage will also possible ensure as a notion that we will defend each other as family. Africa will take your customs but she will in the end have a Celtic funeral for she is from the Celtic lands.

While we speak we should also consider a... economic union. Our merchants are eager to trade. We Celts would like to forge a Christian Trade Guild for all of Christendom to be of as a way to commence ethical trade. Let us begin this by placing a seed known as a Trade Friendship Pact, which will declare that neither my or your merchants will compete against each other. This will demonstrate our friendship and our new found family bond.

May the marriage take place on a day of the most holy!

The Great King of the Celtic peoples, the brave Illiam II.

To the Steward Supreme Michael Danke, whose glory is only excited by thee piety.

I am glad that Prince Heinz Umlaut I has taken the desire to make my beautiful Africa his wife. I will permit him as my son-in-law. However I issue note that while Africa will accepts the customs of your peoples... she will in heart always remain a Celt. That said both our peoples are Catholics. Hence she could in theory take in both holy methods the holy way. Both the Celts and those in league with Avignon follow the true word of Christ... as oppose to the fake words from the Papal States. Our union via the marriage will also possible ensure as a notion that we will defend each other as family. Africa will take your customs but she will in the end have a Celtic funeral for she is from the Celtic lands.

While we speak we should also consider a... economic union. Our merchants are eager to trade. We Celts would like to forge a Christian Trade Guild for all of Christendom to be of as a way to commence ethical trade. Let us begin this by placing a seed known as a Trade Friendship Pact, which will declare that neither my or your merchants will compete against each other. This will demonstrate our friendship and our new found family bond.

May the marriage take place on a day of the most holy!

The Great King of the Celtic peoples, the brave Illiam II.

Great King Illiam II,
Eet vould ve mein honourgh to acxcepth yaur dotter

My apologies, good sir. It appears....um, my...dog...decided he would write you a response.

It would be a great honor for our country if your daughter would be accepted into our realm as wife to Heinz Umlaut I, becoming Princess Anna Umlaut I. It is understood that, as she was raised in a thoroughly Celtic manner, she shall retain your heart; it is for propriety that she become a German in public mannerisms. Also, do not consider us too frugal; she shall have both a public Germanic ceremony as well as a traditional Celtic funeral.

We accept your proposal for a trade pact, as there is no need for good Christians to argue over gold, which only furthers their distance from the gates of heaven. However, we request that you explain a bit more on your guild. Although the Umlaut government fully respects the ideals of moral trade, this land is unwilling to blindly follow the orders of a foreign king in regards to economic activity. Would this be a guild of equals, who shall all have a say in what constitutes righteous behavior, or shall this be an expansion of your influence over the will of legitimate monarchs?

Yet, the activity of our merchants should come second to your lovely daughter and the loyal Prince Heinz. We propose the wedding to occur on January 17, feast day of St. Anthony of Egypt. It is doubly fitting: St. Anthony lived in Egypt, part of the continent which gave your daughter her name. And he lived and preached a life of abstinence from worldly pleasures and greed, instead focusing on how to live a moral life. Our men of economics could learn from this, and take heart in his prayer, which calls for his intercession to the Lord so that what we cannot acquire by any merits of ours, we may obtain by his patronage-- thus delivering us from the evils of dark dealings to achieve earthly ends.

We await the arrival of Africa.

Take care,
Steward Supreme Michael Danke

Heinz Umlaut and in extension Otto Umlaut



OOC: Afraid I got a little long-winded. Sorry. Too much free time. Orders still incoming :blush:

To Steward Supreme Michael Danke and the pious princes.

I set my daughter to your realm. I set one of my trusted warriors, Oswald of House Kinley, a Scott who in his youth joined my father’s side as he began to unite the Celts outside the emerald isle. Oswald has in his aged served as a good military advisor. I feel it is time to give him great honour for the duty I give him will allow him a chance to take pilgrimage as much of as counted holy sites in Christendom. Princess Africa will eagerly await her prince. The day you selected is among the most wisest and most pious of choices. She will enjoy her days in your land as she commences her duty to Christ.

I am happy about the trade pact being accepted. I understand the concern about my... idea. Although a guild master was considered we felt though that would undermine our divine rights. A monarch is placed on this world by the will of God and will hence only kneel to God, be in it prayer or to thy most pious servants of Christ. The Christian Trade Guild would have to be set for equal voice by all members, let be set to allow enforcement as to maintain morality in economics... as much as the term morality can be uneasy to connect to the concept of currency. The Guild will not be an attempt by the Celts to commence economic domination over Christendom. We must together structure it as a force of God as oppose to mortals.

May God bless the holy and royal marriage that binds us together!

The Great King of the Celts, the brave Illiam II.

Personal Statement: which figure of pious nature will wed the royal couple together? Just out of wondering.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5047/imperiamediterraneanatu.png

Land claims are in deep blue (the region below Mecklenburg and the region bordering Austria).
Orange is my invasion--declare war on Holland, citing defense for our Catholic Flemish brothers. Invade orange region above with eight armies. Ask Belgium for military support, and offer a military alliance.

93 gold
-35 invest Army tech
-35 buy 7 armies
-23 invest infrastructure

We also recognize our vassal. My apologies, Jerusalem, but they are Avignon and you are not. As such, I have to support them. However, if you promise to recognize them and their right to exist, I can promise a gift in the future.

Great King Illiam II,

We are delighted to hear that Africa shall soon be on German land. I have pressing matters to attend to, so allow me to keep this short. You may consider Aachen-Dusseldorf interested in your guild.

Pax Vobiscum,

Michael Danke, Steward Supreme

Heinz von Umlaut and in extension Otto von Umlaut

P.S. The Bishop of the Diocese Aachen is going to preside over the wedding. Aachen Cathedral is, after all, the Kaiserdom where German Kings and Queens are traditionally crowned, and where Otto and Heinz von Umlaut received their crowns.

Expand into the following areas.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=323185&stc=1&d=1339457328

I've balanced out vassalisation a bit. It's mostly common sense, but some hard numbers:

Faith kind of plays into it. If there's tension between your faith and theirs, forget about it. Even moreso if they have a relevant major power backing it. Protestant states, for example, are open to vassalisation because of the fact the Protestant movement has splintered horrifically with the fall of Batavia. Roman and Avignon Catholic states will spit in the other's face.

Each point of difference socially/economically adds 5% to their base vassalisation cost. A state that's econ 1 and social 1 to your econ 5 and social 5 will take 50% of their base value, AT LEAST, to vassalise.

These measures will keep high culture states from being too powerful.

===

Orders lock in 24 hours.

The Territorial Claims of the Holy See (Avignon).

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http://i.imgur.com/we3NM.png

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PS: If i've covered too many provinces, excise the southernmost claim bordering Ebria to get 5.

OOC: Um, Jehoshua, we are only allowed to claim up to 5 provinces per turn. You have six down... you might want to clarify so you don't get your least-necessary-province of those six.

Locking orders...good, but... where are all the orders? Did everyone else PM or something?

OOC: I know, thats why I put the post script saying excise the southern most province [the one bordering Ebria] if necessary because a) im too lazy to re-edit the map, and b) just in case I can get six I would like it clear which one I want :p

Oh and on orders some have used the other forums (tani's one) and some have gone the paranoid route and sent orders via pm.

Is... is this dead?

Patience is a virtue, nothing is dead until the GM officially proclaims it so. (Impatient Americans :p )

I honestly forgot about this.

Well, he locked orders over a week ago. Remember, although I am now ingratiating myself I am by no stretch I reason anything other than a noob. ;)

So is this timeframe normal?

Not at all.

I'm sorry for the lack of correspondence, everyone. It's just I've been terribly busy doing various things such as commissions for cash, and also have been hit with some sort of plague as of late. I've also been hit with another plague - a lack of motivation to continue GMing. I've never had this before; I just don't feel that same spark I normally do.

So, I have to say that this will have to die in its infancy. My apologies. :(

I do appreciate you all nonetheless taking your time to play; I thank you. I just wish I had the will to continue!