lindsay40k
Jun 04, 2012, 08:10 PM
So with a greater variety of foods, health bonuses are more widespread, eh?
A read of Guns, Germs And Steel presents an interesting historical counter: zoonotic (animal to human infection) epidemics!
Is there any way to implement an 'Epidemic' system such as this (or near enough):
Every turn, there's a chance of an Epidemic affecting a player who has a particular animal resource and that resource on their network. The Epidemics are: Smallpox (Cattle), Influenza (Pigs), Rinderpest (Deer), Measles (Buffalo), Lyme Disease (Sheep), Cholera (Clam), Salmonella (Crab), Listeria (Fish) E. coli (Horse, special case - see notes).
When an Epidemic occurs, affected cities receive a http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif penalty.
The penalty affects:
- Every city on the player's network.
- Every city on the networks of anyone who is receiving an export from that player of that Epidemic's associated food resource.
- Every city under Cultural pressure by a city that meets the above conditions and whose owner has an Open Borders agreement with the owner of said city*.
The first time the Epidemic occurs, it's a 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif penalty.
Every time an Epidemic reoccurs, its severity is 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif higher than last time - regardless of which player's livestock is the source.
During an Epidemic, the http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif fades at the same rate as that inflicted by poisoned water espionage missions.
Once an Epidemic has faded, affected Civs gain a resistance to that Epidemic equal to the severity of last time they were infected.
Special case: E. coli. This Epidemic can affect you if you have Horse resources. However, it is CARRIED by an random Farmed resource, which is a vector for the feces-borne pathogens. The severity of E. coli does not increase each time it happens, it affects a random Farmed resource each time, and resistance is not built.
Hospitals halve the http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif of Epidemics. A 'Vaccine' event can happen in a city with a Hospital and University; it makes all cities worldwide with Hospitals completely immune to a given Epidemic. (Possibly add options to keep it to yourself, share with your Open Borders friends, or gift it to the world with relations penalties or bonuses depending on what you do? Perhaps if it takes the form of a Resource, like Hit Singles, it'll pretty much work out?)
Now. There's a fair degree of complication to this. It may be simpler and more feasible to just hit everybody in the world who's using Cattle or whatever with a brief illness penalty. But I like the idea, as a historian, of the following scenario:
Spain has three Pig resources. She's trading one to Rome for Corn. She's neighbours with France, and on bad terms. Spain gets Influenza. It affects Rome's cities, too. France chuckles as her rivals both get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
Spain and France patch up their differences and end up with Open Borders. France has nothing to trade for Pigs. However, Marseilles is within Barcelona's cultural pressure. Spain gets Influenza. Spain and Rome both get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif; Marseilles gets 4http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif, as the population are newly exposed.
After another two Epidemics, Spain meets the Aztecs in the New World. Spain exports Pigs to the the Aztecs. An Epidemic occurs. Spain, Rome and Marseilles al get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif; the Aztecs get 10http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
Extreme? Well... it's basically a one-off Poisoned Water event, on every city. It could perhaps cripple an empire... but it'd take an extraordinary number of repeated epidemics to 'mutate' a strain of a disease to a magnitude sufficient to do what Old World illnesses did in the New World. It's only really going to destroy an empire if their cities are all so small they're not going to survive a few loaded transport ships and they get hit by several Epidemics in succession.
There's an argument that Marseilles should pass the Epidemic to the rest of France (assuming it's on the network). There's an argument that France should in turn be able to pass it on to her German neighbours. There's an argument that receiving it through Open Borders could trigger an event that gives options:
- What does not kill us makes us strong: the Open Borders agreement remains, and every city on the player's Network is affected by the Epidemic (and can pass it on through their cultural pressure!).
- Quarantine the sick: the Open Borders agreement is cancelled, and the affected city is cut off from the network until the Epidemic passes (cannot pass it on through its cultural pressure; perhaps put it into Disorder?). Resistance to the disease is gained, but only equal to half of its magnitude (healers learn how to care for the infected, but the wider population does not gain resistance from widespread exposure).
- Kill the sick, kill the sickness (not available if any of the 'freedom' type Civics are in effect): the Open Borders agreement is cancelled, and the affected city is cut off from the network until the illness passes. The city loses population = the severity of the Epidemic (to a minimum of 1?), and a 'Cruel treatment' penalty http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/icons/icon8.gif = population loss is applied to your whole Empire. No resistance to the disease is gained.
I think this has an advantage in that it makes Epidemics more continent-wide, with a likely focus on the place of origin, and adds flavour and player control to things.
There's an argument for this, though I suspect it'd add a lot more complication:
Come next Epidemic, Spain has wiped out the Aztecs and encountered the Iroquois. The Iroquois are friendly enough, but have nothing to trade. Spain gifts Pigs to the Iroquois to consciously and deliberately infect them; the Iroquois are hit by 12http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
This happens outside of the Epidemic Event and initial chain of Events it triggers, though.
There's also an argument for Spies to be able to cause a city to be affected by an Epidemic that the player has a resistance to (ie, has encountered) once they have Medicine or some such (ie, have the knowledge to isolate and culture it into a bioweapon).
This would trigger for the victim city the 'Quarantine' options above, and not be without risk of the disease spreading beyond control!
And if anyone wants to use these ideas to make a 'zombie virus' routine, credit me! :D
*Question: what about a broader 'resource permeation' routine? If Marseilles is under cultural pressure by Barcelona and an OB agreement is in effect, all the resources that Barcelona has also get added to Marseilles (NOT the entire French trade network)? Would make for an interesting 'you may be spamming me with your culture, but all your ex-pats are privately exporting enough food, gems and copper that my city has become a brilliant melting pot' to make up for loss of tiles - and be a vehicle for this 'cross-border infection' idea.
A read of Guns, Germs And Steel presents an interesting historical counter: zoonotic (animal to human infection) epidemics!
Is there any way to implement an 'Epidemic' system such as this (or near enough):
Every turn, there's a chance of an Epidemic affecting a player who has a particular animal resource and that resource on their network. The Epidemics are: Smallpox (Cattle), Influenza (Pigs), Rinderpest (Deer), Measles (Buffalo), Lyme Disease (Sheep), Cholera (Clam), Salmonella (Crab), Listeria (Fish) E. coli (Horse, special case - see notes).
When an Epidemic occurs, affected cities receive a http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif penalty.
The penalty affects:
- Every city on the player's network.
- Every city on the networks of anyone who is receiving an export from that player of that Epidemic's associated food resource.
- Every city under Cultural pressure by a city that meets the above conditions and whose owner has an Open Borders agreement with the owner of said city*.
The first time the Epidemic occurs, it's a 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif penalty.
Every time an Epidemic reoccurs, its severity is 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif higher than last time - regardless of which player's livestock is the source.
During an Epidemic, the http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif fades at the same rate as that inflicted by poisoned water espionage missions.
Once an Epidemic has faded, affected Civs gain a resistance to that Epidemic equal to the severity of last time they were infected.
Special case: E. coli. This Epidemic can affect you if you have Horse resources. However, it is CARRIED by an random Farmed resource, which is a vector for the feces-borne pathogens. The severity of E. coli does not increase each time it happens, it affects a random Farmed resource each time, and resistance is not built.
Hospitals halve the http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif of Epidemics. A 'Vaccine' event can happen in a city with a Hospital and University; it makes all cities worldwide with Hospitals completely immune to a given Epidemic. (Possibly add options to keep it to yourself, share with your Open Borders friends, or gift it to the world with relations penalties or bonuses depending on what you do? Perhaps if it takes the form of a Resource, like Hit Singles, it'll pretty much work out?)
Now. There's a fair degree of complication to this. It may be simpler and more feasible to just hit everybody in the world who's using Cattle or whatever with a brief illness penalty. But I like the idea, as a historian, of the following scenario:
Spain has three Pig resources. She's trading one to Rome for Corn. She's neighbours with France, and on bad terms. Spain gets Influenza. It affects Rome's cities, too. France chuckles as her rivals both get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
Spain and France patch up their differences and end up with Open Borders. France has nothing to trade for Pigs. However, Marseilles is within Barcelona's cultural pressure. Spain gets Influenza. Spain and Rome both get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif; Marseilles gets 4http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif, as the population are newly exposed.
After another two Epidemics, Spain meets the Aztecs in the New World. Spain exports Pigs to the the Aztecs. An Epidemic occurs. Spain, Rome and Marseilles al get 2http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif; the Aztecs get 10http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
Extreme? Well... it's basically a one-off Poisoned Water event, on every city. It could perhaps cripple an empire... but it'd take an extraordinary number of repeated epidemics to 'mutate' a strain of a disease to a magnitude sufficient to do what Old World illnesses did in the New World. It's only really going to destroy an empire if their cities are all so small they're not going to survive a few loaded transport ships and they get hit by several Epidemics in succession.
There's an argument that Marseilles should pass the Epidemic to the rest of France (assuming it's on the network). There's an argument that France should in turn be able to pass it on to her German neighbours. There's an argument that receiving it through Open Borders could trigger an event that gives options:
- What does not kill us makes us strong: the Open Borders agreement remains, and every city on the player's Network is affected by the Epidemic (and can pass it on through their cultural pressure!).
- Quarantine the sick: the Open Borders agreement is cancelled, and the affected city is cut off from the network until the Epidemic passes (cannot pass it on through its cultural pressure; perhaps put it into Disorder?). Resistance to the disease is gained, but only equal to half of its magnitude (healers learn how to care for the infected, but the wider population does not gain resistance from widespread exposure).
- Kill the sick, kill the sickness (not available if any of the 'freedom' type Civics are in effect): the Open Borders agreement is cancelled, and the affected city is cut off from the network until the illness passes. The city loses population = the severity of the Epidemic (to a minimum of 1?), and a 'Cruel treatment' penalty http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/icons/icon8.gif = population loss is applied to your whole Empire. No resistance to the disease is gained.
I think this has an advantage in that it makes Epidemics more continent-wide, with a likely focus on the place of origin, and adds flavour and player control to things.
There's an argument for this, though I suspect it'd add a lot more complication:
Come next Epidemic, Spain has wiped out the Aztecs and encountered the Iroquois. The Iroquois are friendly enough, but have nothing to trade. Spain gifts Pigs to the Iroquois to consciously and deliberately infect them; the Iroquois are hit by 12http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/yuck.gif.
This happens outside of the Epidemic Event and initial chain of Events it triggers, though.
There's also an argument for Spies to be able to cause a city to be affected by an Epidemic that the player has a resistance to (ie, has encountered) once they have Medicine or some such (ie, have the knowledge to isolate and culture it into a bioweapon).
This would trigger for the victim city the 'Quarantine' options above, and not be without risk of the disease spreading beyond control!
And if anyone wants to use these ideas to make a 'zombie virus' routine, credit me! :D
*Question: what about a broader 'resource permeation' routine? If Marseilles is under cultural pressure by Barcelona and an OB agreement is in effect, all the resources that Barcelona has also get added to Marseilles (NOT the entire French trade network)? Would make for an interesting 'you may be spamming me with your culture, but all your ex-pats are privately exporting enough food, gems and copper that my city has become a brilliant melting pot' to make up for loss of tiles - and be a vehicle for this 'cross-border infection' idea.