View Full Version : Rhye's of Civilization: the fastest loading mod


Rhye
Mar 03, 2003, 07:08 PM
http://digilander.libero.it/RhyePD/title.jpg

This modpack tries to make a Civ3 game based on Earth map as most realistic and historically correct as possible.
The purpose is to obtain this with no scenario (just civs beginning in 4000 B.C in their starting locations),
and without adding wonders, techs or resources.

It features:
1. An improvement of Kal-El's 140x140 Earth map
2. Speed improvement: loading times are reduced up to 96%. Yes, it's not a joke. :cool:
3. Inca civ complete with leaderhead, Unique Unit and (PTW only) King unit
4. An innovative set of rules made on purpose for this map
5. A new terrain set based on Sn00py's 4.1 greener version
6. Compatibility with both regular Civ3 (BIC) and Play The World (BIX)

Conquests version here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77848)




Now, let me demonstrate the speed improvement.
The reasons of these results are a long matter and are fully explained in the readme, so I won't say anything about it now.

(Kal-El's, Arne's and Teturkhan's Earth map were used in the following test)

http://digilander.libero.it/RhyePD/loading_test25.jpg







INSTALLING INSTRUCTIONS - REGULAR CIV3

First of all, backup the following files:
...\text\civilopedia.txt
...\text\diplomacy.txt
...\text\pediaicons.txt
...\art\resources.pcx
...\art\X-o_ALLstates-sprite.pcx
...\art\units\units32.pcx
...\art\terrain\*.* (the whole art\terrain folder)
Then download all the files you need and extract them to your Civ3 folder (for example C:\Civ3, or C:\Program Files\Civilization III).


INSTALLING INSTRUCTIONS - PTW

Download all the files you need and extract them to your \Civ3PTW\Scenarios folder (for example C:\Civ3\Civ3PTW\Scenarios)

Rhye
Mar 03, 2003, 07:17 PM
THE FILES

The readme.doc is in the attachment at the bottom of the reply, below the other files.
It is not included in the files below, so download it before any other file.
Please read it carefully, to understand how it works,
and perhaps add your contribute to the effort of making this modpack with some suggestions.


With Thunderfall's help I posted the entire files, not splitted into many zips.
You have to download the file belonging to your civ3 version (regular or PTW).
If you have a slow connection and you want to avoid downloading 8MB you can
download the "static" version instead. It contains a static leaderhead instead of animated.

Regular Civ3: (12.9MB)
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/modpack/Rhyes_of_Civilization.zip
Regular Civ3 static version: (5MB)
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/modpack/Rhyes_of_Civilization_static.zip
PTW: (13.4MB)
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/modpack/Rhyes_of_Civilization_PTW.zip
PTW static version: (5.5MB)
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/modpack/Rhyes_of_Civilization_PTW_static.zip




THE README:


EDIT: removed.

Xupinazo
Mar 05, 2003, 08:38 AM
Rhye,

I am a long-timer Civ fanatic but had to wait until a few weeks ago before playing Civ3 (how frustrating since Nov.2001...!).
I mostly enjoy my Civ games on earth, or part of the earth, maps; the more detailed the map, the better.

Your v2.6 of Kal-El 180x180 is brilliant and increased multiplefolds my gaming pleasure.
I was looking forward to your 140x140 adaptation... I already love the map, I have tons of comments on your readme but... when loading the game (PTW), I get: "cannot find Art/Units/Settler/Settler.ini file". Have you forgotten to include it in your zips or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for your help. I don't want to forward my comments before playing, but I concur with most of your rules changes.

Cheers

UglyBoy
Mar 05, 2003, 12:51 PM
Neither of the static downloads work. Plz get this fixed quick cause this looks like a really good mod and i want to play it NOW but i have to wait cause i'm only on a 56k :( I am downloading the other leaderhead at the moment though.

Yoda Power
Mar 05, 2003, 01:38 PM
looks good i might even download this. (which is a compliment since i have only downloaded 3-4 mods)

Rhye
Mar 05, 2003, 03:29 PM
I didn't notice any error, but I'll check at once....:scan:
I don't want a two months work to be unuseful!

Rhye
Mar 05, 2003, 04:06 PM
Yoda Power -> Thanks for the compliment. I hope you'll try it
(which is a compliment since i have only downloaded 3-4 mods) Instead I download everything, and then try only 3-4 of them :)

Uglyboy -> Just fixed the links

Xupinazo -> I didn't edit anything about settler.ini. In fact I don't get any error message. So I tried to remove it (it's located in \art\units\settler\ folder) and I got the same error. And I think that the same would happen in any game you start (probably you have moved it).
So the first thing that comes in my mind is to post the settler.ini here. Place it in the right folder and let me know (so that you can post your comments :) )



EDIT: file removed

Rhye
Mar 12, 2003, 07:03 PM
So, did it work? I instealled it on my friend's PC and it worked.


By the way, maybe someone will notice a change in the post structure. I must thank Thunderfall for this. Soon he'll change the link of the multiple files in only 2 files per version, too.

Rhye
Mar 14, 2003, 04:50 AM
Updated the files section. Removed those 14 zips

UglyBoy
Mar 14, 2003, 10:27 AM
It's working good on mine it's very in depth and some great changes. Your changes to desert and jungle severy hamper some civs though and encourages me to play european civs. It's loads of fun and in some ways better than the original.

Rhye
Mar 14, 2003, 01:25 PM
The thing hampered civs suffer more is lack of food. If a crippled civ like Incas were given many wheats of cattles it would conquer the whole South America, leaving nothing to explorations. European civs have this advantage, but suffer lack of space (in some games Japan and Rome tend to be a bit "shy").

But I'm happy to see that there's people appreciating this work. Hoping to receive inputs to improve it. And perhaps some good ratings :) (only 2 votes, 4.5/5 until now)

Rhye
Mar 14, 2003, 06:21 PM
3 votes:
4+5+1=3.33 average.

I'd like to hear the reasons from the one who voted 1/5, as no reason was given. Rating a SO BAD mark without giving reasons isn't much serious and respectful. Probably he didn't even try it :rolleyes:

abla
Mar 20, 2003, 02:26 PM
Great mod.

I am stuck with a P2 333 so (according to the back of the box) shouldn't even be able to run PTW.

Oddly enough it runs better/smoother/less crashes than vanilla.

Inter-turn times are a major issue for me and while I had tried the original map by the time I get to about 1500-1600ish I have a 20 min wait. As for Marla's map - nice to look at but unplayable.

This works a treat maybe 1-2 mins and I've got to early 1900ish so far. I can cope with that.

Also, it always did p*** me off that the AI filled the Gobi/Sahara/Siberia/Greenland/north Canada/even Antartica with cities by 600-1000AD.

Very good work, may never play anything else (at least for a while)!

Spearthrower
Mar 20, 2003, 05:55 PM
Rhye

You will notice that this is my first post! ;) I logged in simply to commend you on this excellent map. Whoever gave it a 1 doesnt deserve a vote! :goodjob:

I downloaded it yesterday for my pII350 and I am now just starting colonising America. I played as Rome and with a bit of challenge from Greece and the Vikings I have managed to snatch all of Europe except half of Britain and Scandinavia. The AI Civ's have time and again tested the mettle of the Roman Empire with really sneak mutual agression pacts, and safe, remote Japan seemed to be at the route of all of them!

As I reached the shores of America first, I offered Philosophy to all the tribes for their maps...... this felt quite realistic in the sense that the native tribes first seeing the Europeans sailing over must've challenged their view of the world. This in turn has led them to suddenly expand which means that I will probably be the only non-American nation to get a significant foothold over there. Japan has one city on the west coast but doesnt look like he is going to follow it up.

All in all it has been one of the most strategic games of Civ I've played..... a solid 10 hour game of it last night is proof of it's worth in my opinion! The different model of expansion the AI's are faced with really creates an additional edge to any of the World Maps I've played before and all the additional mods have made playing a joy!

I give it 11/10, if only to make up for the joker who voted a 1!! :rolleyes:

Next I will be playing it LAN'ed with my flatmate, so I'll let you know how it pans out!

Thanks a lot mate, excellent map and lots of attention to detail!

:thumbsup:


Spearthrower, thrower of spears.

Spearthrower
Mar 20, 2003, 05:57 PM
Forgot to ask if you'll be working on any further projects?

Rhye
Mar 21, 2003, 06:04 AM
Thanks, people.

I think that 1/5 was rated by someone who hates me :) And I suspect something, having had an argument with a guy on a thread of this forum the day before.
I hope to earn some other 6 or 7 5/5 ratings, to bring the overall rating back to 5. (It would be 5 without that 1/5)

To spearthrower -> I recommend you for trying to play the modern civs scenario. In my opinion it is more realistic.

In future I'd like to apply this mod to 180x180 map, but for now it isn't worth the effort.
Right now I'm working on a Risk! modpack. You'll find it posted in this forum in a few days.

Spearthrower
Mar 21, 2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Rhye

To spearthrower -> I recommend you for trying to play the modern civs scenario. In my opinion it is more realistic.


This has actually been the most realistic game I've played yet! I'm much more a fan of the ancient world, although I promise to try the Modern one next - perhaps in the Lan game with my flatmates!

Mmmmmm risk! My favourite board game, I'll look out for that! :)

Lord Peter
Mar 23, 2003, 05:45 PM
Hi there, Rhye!

I've just been searching the boards for many hours looking for a decent AND playable world map, and I have been led to you...it looks very promising. I'm just downloading it at the moment (9% only; 1 hr left!), but then I will give it the full treatment.....!

Just to say so far, well done...I'm sure I am going to be up into the wee small hosurs playing this one!

I'll keep you informed of my progress! :crazyeye:

Cheers,

Lord Peter:)

cavemanf16
Mar 24, 2003, 09:08 AM
I really like the idea of removing the unit animations - or at least some of them - to improve load times. One question tho: Does this also affect the overall game speed too, or just load times?

Rhye
Mar 24, 2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by cavemanf16
I really like the idea of removing the unit animations - or at least some of them - to improve load times. One question tho: Does this also affect the overall game speed too, or just load times?

No, no! You didn't understand :)

Loading times between turns, and saving and loading, were reduced up to 96% as you can see above. But this has nothing to do with unit animations!!
I only mentioned them because when I tested with the chronometer I disabled units animation both in my mod and in the other people's. The reason is clear: sometimes you have many units moving, sometimes no unit: so I disabled them for fairness. The focus on my mod wasn't on this: it cuts the time when AI "thinks"

Kal-el
Mar 24, 2003, 10:25 AM
Rhye, by removing the hills from the Himalayas you remove the possibility for any sort of Tibetan cities. The Hills represent the Tibetan Plateau.

Rhye
Mar 24, 2003, 10:40 AM
Well, there's no tibet civ :) The modification to your map were done in order to match the rules and to balance the game with the included civs.
Anyway, in the Tibetan Plateau there are no big cities. And I think villages shouldn't be represented in such a "small" Earth map. If you put hills there, rich cities will grow because of irrigation in the tiles around. The best would be adding a "plateau" terrain, very useful in other regions of the Earth, too. But it can't be done...

abla
Apr 07, 2003, 12:09 PM
I couldn't take it any more. I've finally shelled out for an upgrade from a P2 333 to an Athlon XP 2400+ 512Mb 80Gb HD DVD etc etc since I must (not an option, MUST) be able to run Championship Manager 4 (minimum specs (!) P3 600 Mghz).

Americans probably won't undersand the fascination of a football management (that is soccer, i.e. real football) game that resembles a complicated database more than anything else.

This means that all those large and huge Civ 3 maps will suddenly become available to me at a reasonable speed (I hope).

Despite that I think I will still play at least some of the time on this map as the base map was good and the Ryse additions I quite like also.

So I won't be abandoning your good work just because I can.....

Hygro
Apr 07, 2003, 06:18 PM
I don't get it. How does this decrease times by 96%?

iamjason
Apr 07, 2003, 08:06 PM
Rhye-- great changes! Your mod has more than a few great tweaks toward a more "realistic" Civ 3. For one thing, I'm glad to see the Incas around. I'm still not sure why they were left out, while Korea was included. The Incas had the largest Pre-Columbian empire in the Americas and Korea had... China and Japan squabiling over who should colonize them. Then again, Korea does have a huge video game market...

I'm getting off topic. One thing I've been struggling with in my Colonization (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48659) mod is how to represent the historical forces that lead to things like handfulls of Spanish Conquistadores bringing down entire empires. In terms of Civ 3, it's very hard to create similar situations without urealistically crippling some civs (by telling the AI to never build settlers, making North America more barren than it really is, etc.)

One book I highly recommend is Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. It's a really good look at what factors were actually different bewteen different civs, as opposed to lazy answers like genetics or superior culture. One thing that this, and many other books, bring up is the big difference between food gathering and food production, and the huge impact of better crops, livestock, and technology on food production. This is barely modeled in Civ 3 at all (at least in Civ 2 you had 2 levels of irrigation/farming). Since you are unable to add worker jobs (I don't know about PTW), you are limited.

So one idea I came up with is giving wheat and cattle tech requirements, and having plenty of them. This represents how there were many more varied and useful live stock and grains in Eurasian than elsewhere. In the Colonization mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48659), this means that Native American civs have to trade for or learn Plow Farming in order to get wheat, and Gunpowder to get Cattle. The Gunpowder one isn't particularly realistic but it stands in for something that all the Europeans had and the Natives did not.

Another thing it would be great to be able to model would be disease. Disease has had a huge impact on world history, and it's very rarely an issue at all in Civ. I'm still not sure what to do about that one. I've thought about making a smallpox unit, but in many cases disease was not a conscious offensive tactic by the Europeans (though sometimes it was) and I'd hate to have a bunch of germ units fortified in cities or something.

Anyway, some stuff for you to think about. Feel free to use any of my ideas, take a look at my Colonization mod, and if I use any of your tweaks I'll give you a shout out.

BTW, where did you get the Inca UU from? I did a little research, and I don't remember anything particular about spear throwers. I could be wrong. I'm using Mit'a, which were kind of general purpose conscripted peasants used to fight, build roads, etc.

Kal-el
Apr 07, 2003, 09:25 PM
I love that book!

Rhye
Apr 08, 2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by abla
I couldn't take it any more. I've finally shelled out for an upgrade from a P2 333 to an Athlon XP 2400+ 512Mb 80Gb HD DVD etc etc since I must (not an option, MUST) be able to run Championship Manager 4 (minimum specs (!) P3 600 Mghz).

Americans probably won't undersand the fascination of a football management (that is soccer, i.e. real football) game that resembles a complicated database more than anything else.


First of all, I'm not American.
And so, I :love: anything about football. I have CM3 01/02, played it a lot. Now I'm waiting for the italian version of CM4 to be released

Originally posted by abla
This means that all those large and huge Civ 3 maps will suddenly become available to me at a reasonable speed (I hope).

Despite that I think I will still play at least some of the time on this map as the base map was good and the Ryse additions I quite like also.

So I won't be abandoning your good work just because I can..... [/B]

Doing an upgrade doesn't solve ALL problems.
As you can see from the benchmark in the first page of this thread, I've a P4 1.7 Ghz, with 512MB DDR. This is an excellent configuration (for now). But benchmarks say that in 256 maps I have to wait 6-7 minutes between turns. Probably you're used to wait such a long times, but I don't think anyway that 6 minutes is "a short time".
I'd like to know your loading times with your old computer,
-with my mod
-with other mods
after many turns of the game (I tried 170AD and 1400AD, because before about 100 turns the game is still playable. But of course a game CAN'T end in 100AD)

Rhye
Apr 08, 2003, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by Hygro
I don't get it. How does this decrease times by 96%?

Read the readme!!!!

And if you want to check personally, just download it :)

Rhye
Apr 08, 2003, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by iamjason
I'm still not sure why they were left out, while Korea was included.

Marketing....

Originally posted by iamjason
Anyway, some stuff for you to think about. Feel free to use any of my ideas, take a look at my Colonization mod, and if I use any of your tweaks I'll give you a shout out. [/B]

I've downloaded it. First of all, I think you should:
-Release a PTW version.
-Include unit and leaderhead graphics in the modpack
-Improve you installation (in the zip the files are in \program files\infogra.......etc.: not everybody have civ3 installed in that dir)

But rules changes look interesting. I have to look them more in depth. If I have some suggestions I'll tell you.

Originally posted by iamjason BTW, where did you get the Inca UU from? I did a little research, and I don't remember anything particular about spear throwers. I could be wrong. I'm using Mit'a, which were kind of general purpose conscripted peasants used to fight, build roads, etc. [/B]

I did some research and found that Incas used mostly slingsmen, but there's no unit graphics available for this. So I found that their army included Moche speat throwers, too. And jimmyh's Skirmisher was excellent for this.

iamjason
Apr 08, 2003, 08:54 PM
I've downloaded it. First of all, I think you should:
-Release a PTW version.
-Include unit and leaderhead graphics in the modpack
-Improve you installation (in the zip the files are in \program files\infogra.......etc.: not everybody have civ3 installed in that dir)

But rules changes look interesting. I have to look them more in depth. If I have some suggestions I'll tell you.

I really do have to get my hands on PTW. I think I saw somewhere that Amazon had it for $10, so I guess I have no excuses left. As for leader heads and units, I was really trying to trim down the download. Maybe I should make a big phatty version for those with highspeed internet? I have seen a lot of really good units on the boards here and Apolyton.

Hey, what do you think about mods that use custom player data (to start civs with more than 4 techs, etc.)? I know users can open the file in the editor and switch players around, but do you think it's too limiting on games that are meant to be playable from all sides?

After looking over your rule changes, I'm definitely going to up the time it takes for worker jobs. I wish there was more flexibility with those as well. In the Americas and elsewhere it would make much more sense to have trails (allow trade) --> roads (1/2 movement) --> railroads (free movement + bonuses) --> highways (free movement +trade bonuses) and some way to reflect the change from hunting and gathering to sedentary farming/hand planting to irrigation to plow farming/broadcast plating to mechanized farming. Each one has created a considerable increase in population and fueled other developments. Heck, you might even add genetically engineered crops in near the end, and then other civs can use engineered locusts to wipe them out.

Rhye
Apr 09, 2003, 08:09 AM
Custom player data can be useful. But if you want the scenario to be user-friendly, you should create many .sav, one for each side. I did something similiar in my Risk! mod http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48512

About workers, I'd suggest working around governments. You should alter the tech tree, worker rate in the govs tab and the favourite government. In this way you can force some civs to have slower workers

abla
Apr 14, 2003, 02:33 AM
I wasn't thinking you were American - the 'Livorno, Italia' gives it away a bit.....!

I have now tried el mencey's 300+ x 300+ Earth map and my new PC (Athlon 2400+) runs that about the same speed as my old one ran yours - though I have only got to 1200AD odd.

I am going to have to figure out the editor though, after playing you mod it is annoying to see the Carthaginians (et al) furiously irrigating the Sahara again.

Donovan575
Apr 18, 2003, 12:19 AM
Great work Rhye. I've been only playing this mod for the past couple of weeks now, it's got excellent playability. I've come to a problem though that if I engage in diplomacy with the Incas, or if they do with me and I choose anything but to turn them away right away, the game freezes. This started happening in the industrial age...didn't come into contact with them before that. I've had to just cut them out now when I play in order to avoid that. I don't know if this is a problem on my end or with the Incas leaderheads or what not maybe? I'm not sure, just thought I should let you know in case it was.

Rhye
Apr 19, 2003, 06:08 AM
Strage, it never happened to me (and I've played the mod many times to balance it) and to anybody.
Could you attach here the savegame please?

Yoda Power
Apr 19, 2003, 06:23 AM
Donovan which patch do you have?

Rhye
Apr 19, 2003, 06:36 AM
Does the game freeze when you start a new game and select Inca civ? If this happens, you should probably re-install the mod or check if everything's in the right folder

xghost
Apr 19, 2003, 12:11 PM
DAMN! I don't normally curse, but that was fast! I didn't even have to stop for a snack while waiting for it to load! Awesome Rhye, love the Incas man!

Donovan575
Apr 21, 2003, 01:26 AM
I've played as the Incas before and it was fine, but I never made it to the Industrial age though. Also I have version 1.29. I was using the static leaderhead before, but now I downloaded the animated leaderhead since then and everything's working fine with it, so I don't know if it was that or just my own computer before, but it's all good now. I also don't have the same game, if you want me to try and recreate it I'll do that if you're concerned at all. Thanks.

Rhye
Apr 22, 2003, 05:49 AM
If everything works fine now, I don't need you to recreate the samegame.
Enjoy yourself :)

Eddiit
May 13, 2003, 01:16 AM
Well I want to start off by saying that this is, without a doubt, my favorite MOD of all. It's one of the only MOD's that I still use and it's rare for me to play anything other than your MOD. That being said I had a few requests.

Can you please add starting points for the PTW civ's? I really want to see what impact the Carthagians, Koreans and especially Mongols have on the games I've been playing with your MOD. I now the map wasn't originally designed for those civ's but I really think it will help with replayability(even though replayability is already great).

I also wanted to ask you to increase the number of base civ's that can be in a game. I know things are already tight but I especially like playing in tight maps with many civ's. It makes for some awesome border disputes. I've really wanted to try adding the Koreans, Mongols and Carthagians to the existing games (now that I think about it maybe Arabs too) as I think they would make regional conflicts much cooler.

I know this will take alot of work but as one of your biggest fans I would love to see it. Thanks.

NobleLeader
May 13, 2003, 12:02 PM
Rhye, I got a little confusing reading the thread... Where can I download the lastest 'release' version of mod (and its latest patches) ?

Eddiit
May 13, 2003, 12:54 PM
The second post on this thread has the download links. As far as I know that's the latest release.

Eddiit
May 14, 2003, 01:08 AM
Rhye Im ticked man. I tried to do the upgrade myself (moron that I am) and after creating the civ's (Korea,Mongols etc.) I loaded the game only to find that file "#" is missing.....what did I do wrong? And can you dot he upgrade cause for heavens sake I can't figure my own name out anymore...

Eddiit
May 14, 2003, 01:11 AM
Oh...and just so you know I transfered the file from .bic to .bix format to be ablt to have more than 16 civs. I was sad to find that the PTW civs did not just automatically convert over. I had to manually make every one....so you can see why I'm frustrated...i spent about 4 hours fuguring the stuff out only to come into what i consider to be an all but impossible road block...

Eddiit
May 14, 2003, 03:32 AM
Here's kind of a play by play of what I did so maybe you can help me to fix it.

To begin with I transfered the file from .bic format to.bix format so I could use the PTW editor and so i would have the capability to increase civs... Everything went fine with that and the scenario opened just fine in PTW. I then went ahead and began the real work. I Increased the civs ina single scenario to 22 and included the mongols,celtics,carthagians etc. I used the normal PTW map and cut and pasted everything over to make the civs work (I didn't want to change anyhting I just wanted to place the civs in the MOD. After that I began unit creation following the PTW units exactly (Berserk Korean Cannon thingy etc.).Finally i placed the starting points and everyhting looked good until...... I attempted to start the scenario. I received this message:

FILE NOT FOUND
"#"

and it exits the program. I have absoluteley no idea what to do. All I did was copy what is supposed to be in PTW into this scenario.... does anyone have any idea why I received this message and does anybody know what I can do? All I want is to play the darn scenario with a few extra civs. Please help!

Rhye
May 14, 2003, 06:59 PM
-> Nobleleader...

You can find the files in the first page of this thread, right below the installing instructions. If you find other threads of something with my name in the maps forum, ignore them, as those are my old works, out of date now.


-> Eddiit....

Thanks for your compliments.
I see that you want to add starting places for PTW civs.
But they are in the PTW version of my mod!! (didn't you download it??)
They are divided in two groups, because 24 civs can't fit in a 140x140 map. For this reason, I suggest you not to add them. The two files contain each 16 civs, standard civ and PTW mixed: the first contains 16 "ancient" civs (Rome, Celts, China etc.), the second 16 "modern" civs (France, America, China again etc.)
As I explained in the readme, resources were re-distribuited in different way in the two .bix. In fact the rules I changed force for example cities to grow a bigger size to be able to produce a settler. And sometimes starting locations can't produce all this food.
So, the result of enabling 24 civs would be:
- very tiny civs (expecially europeans), leading to an unbalancement of the game (just think how Celts and France bother each other)
- some civs don't grow, due to lack of food
So, if you want to do it anyway, I suggest you to do a work of putting the resources in the right places, comparing the 3 scenario versions (the standard Civ and both the PTW). For example, an area with many changes was Arabia.
By the way, I really don't know what can cause that error. But I don't understand why did you do all those things!! It's very simple: just edit a .bix (ancient or modern) and activate civs, then set starting locations and do that work on resources placing.
No need to convert from .bic!!!

About future projects....I would like to release some day one day a 180x180 version of this mod, with 24 civs together. And I've made a map on my own. So there's much work to do: complete the map, put all the resources, copy all the rules (and edit some of them) and playtest all many times.
If you can't wait and you want to try something on your own, I suggest you to search for my old posts. I once made a mod called "Kal-El's Earth map with resources by Rhye v2.6" or something like this. You can find it in the maps forum.
Of couse this is an old project, and it was the starting point for creating Rhye's of Civilization. Some of the rules changes were originally in that mod. But it lacks of many thing (expecially speed) and contains some errors on the map to be corrected. But it's a 180x180 kal-el's earth map, after all.... My suggestion is to take it and apply Rhye's of Civilization rules on it, and enabling all the civs. Again, there would be the food problem, but I'm sure you can work around it.

Eddiit
May 15, 2003, 04:00 AM
I would like to volunteer to help playtest your 180x180 version of this mod. I've had so much fun with the smaller map I'm sure I'd love the larger one. ANyways I figured out what happened....when I downloaded your PTW version it got mixed up somehow with the normal version...when I searched for the PTW I couldnt find it....so I assumed you just left it as a .bic and didn't give the chance to include the new civs....anyways thanks for the help and KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Rhye
May 15, 2003, 07:31 AM
the .bic?
The new civs are in the .bix
The only thing I forced is the division 16 ancient / 16 modern

Rhye
May 15, 2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Eddiit
I would like to volunteer to help playtest your 180x180 version of this mod. I've had so much fun with the smaller map I'm sure I'd love the larger one.

I'd be happy to have someone willing to playtest the final version!
The only problem is that I want to finish the new map, and release it only with the mod. And it will take a long time, as my work was halted a month ago due to lack of feedback.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48939
This is the thread of the map

Aggressor_Squad
May 20, 2003, 12:41 AM
WOW!!! I took the hassle to register a username just to post a reply...This is simply the best "mod"(if you could call it that) i've ever d/led and played. It is because of this map that I stayed up to 4 a.m with 3 cans of coke beside my mouse :)

One question...I'm only a amateur Civ3 player, so I pretty much got owned in the Monarch difficulty. In the Readme it said this map was designed to be play at that dif, so if I played it at lower levels will it affect the a.i in any way? Thnx in advance, again for such a great map/mod.

Rhye
May 20, 2003, 02:40 PM
Thanks!!!

About your question, lowering difficutly level will have these effects:
-AI discovers techs slower, so the player may become the most advanced civ. And this could cause a delay: timeline could seem to go too fast compared to science (for example, musketeers discovered in 1500 instead of 1300, America discovered after 1600). Unless the player conquers half world and leads the world science with over 30 cities. But I don't see much fun in dominating so easily :)
-Loading times reduced (and this is good!)

An higher difficulty level will cause instead a faster AI research and a faster colonization (slower loading times).

So, as you can see, you should be able to play a game without problems changing level.
This is due to the changes I made to the levels, too (from the readme: "- Chieftain cost factor = 16 instead of 20; Deity cost factor = 7 instead of 6. This is to reduce range of tech, settlers and units cost ")

jlong
May 29, 2003, 03:48 AM
First, I'd like to say Hi all. I'm new here. I downloaded this mod, but I can't get your scenerio to work, it says it may be corrupt. Also, does this work for just your scenerio or, the regular game too? TYIA

Rhye
May 29, 2003, 04:09 AM
What is corrupt? The zip file? If it's the zip, then just try to download it again. Then install it following the instructions, and load the scenario from the menu. It's a scenario, but if you haven't PTW then some files will overwrite the originals (you must backup them)

jlong
May 29, 2003, 04:38 AM
When I goto the menu, and click load scenario. I see your .bic file there. When I click to open it, I get this message, "Could not open scenario file. This file may be corrupt." I tried to redownload it again, but I got the same thing. I does change the terrain in all my saves though. I also don't have PTW.

Rhye
May 29, 2003, 06:14 AM
Hmm update your version to 1.29. Probably an older version doesn't recognize the newer .bic

jlong
May 30, 2003, 03:51 AM
Yep, that was it. I updated and it works great. Love it! Great work. Thanks a lot for the help too.

gormtheold
Jun 11, 2003, 03:15 PM
I haven't been playing Civ3 for a while, and I just downloaded the mod. It's wonderful. I've always wanted a decent, playable real world. In the past, I played several real worlds on a 500 mhz computer and was actually inspired to go get a new one (1.8). The turns were still five minutes. On this mod, the turns are almost instantaneous.

I would love you maybe adding say Sudanese (Ghana, Songhai, Mali), maybe Maya, maybe Indonesia (the historic Javan kingdoms). The Iroquois and Zulus, of course, weren't around in 4000 B.C. but on kind of a suspension of disbelief sort or thing I always except them as representatives of North American Indians (Cahokians?) and Bantu (who, after all, probably migrated from the Sudan, which would make a problem with adding the Sudanese (oh, well). But here follows feedback on how the thing plays.

I played the first game Regent and did experience the technology slowdown thing. I did get too dominant and had nobody else to swap techs with. I will just barely get my last tech in 2046 if I can keep it at no more than 6 turns a tech.

I played Japanese (always play the Japanese, love building wonders with great leaders, and hate long revolutions). As I didn't expect iron in Japan (there is some, though the readme suggests that there is not), I went right to mapmaking and was able to colonize Korea and Southern China)I then used my swordsmen to do in the Chinese. Didn't have enough swordsmen so I had to finish with samurai. For the most part, I didn't do much with the samurai because I was fighting off attacks from Romans and Celts and so could get my golden age while I was jumpstarting universites and banks. When I got cavalry, I wanted India (lots of luxuries), had to get past the Persians (who had flipflopped the Indians into SE Asia, kept going to get most of the rest of the Persians. Along the way the Celts and Romans (the other two great powers) would occasionally start something and I was able to cherry-pick a city or two (luckily enough, including Babylon and Karakorum.) Now I'm in the late 1900s, a satisfied power, but building a bunch of tanks (inordinately newfangled because of the tech lag) and contemplating further mischief. The Greeks have wine but they're on the other side of a few Roman cities. Hmm. The fate of the Ai civs-Celts, good, Romans and Egyptians, fair to good, Mongolians and Carthaginians, done in my other folks than me. The Scandinavians, Babylonians and Greeks, relatively poor though I've done them no harm. The Chinese, Indians, and Persians, of coure, had their natural development cut off, but didn't seem particularly strong when I attacked them. I don't know what a human player could do with the other civilizations but the Celts and Romans seemed the best placed for an AI to play

I get the point of doing 6 and 60 on the tech. I have always relied on a couple of 4s to speed the thing along. Two questions:
1. Do you think setting the thing back to 4 would cause the AI to start swapping like mad in antiquity and all have railroads by 200 B.C. or do you think that would be relatively harmless (at least in regent) because it is rare to get a tech for less than 6 anyway), and 2. What do you think "accelerated production" would do to the thing, bring back all the problems you just got rid of? Er, maybe I should stop being such a wimp and play Monarch?

Thanks again. I'm gratified to finally be able to play the real world. I'm looking forward to trying the Celts and, after trying to get reasonably secure in Europe (do in Romans, Greeks and Scandinavians, then maybe Egyptians and Babylonians to be sure of oil) taking off for the new world to try my fortunes there. Yeah, I spose I could have done that from Japan. I just didn't. I still haven't gotten used to it not taking a century to cross an ocean.

Rhye
Jun 11, 2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by gormtheold
I haven't been playing Civ3 for a while, and I just downloaded the mod. It's wonderful. I've always wanted a decent, playable real world. In the past, I played several real worlds on a 500 mhz computer and was actually inspired to go get a new one (1.8). The turns were still five minutes. On this mod, the turns are almost instantaneous.


Thanks. It's good to see that the aim of my work is appreciated :)

Originally posted by gormtheold

I would love you maybe adding say Sudanese (Ghana, Songhai, Mali), maybe Maya, maybe Indonesia (the historic Javan kingdoms).


I'm waiting for next civ3 expansion. After that, I'll think about releasing a new version

Originally posted by gormtheold

I played the first game Regent and did experience the technology slowdown thing. I did get too dominant and had nobody else to swap techs with. I will just barely get my last tech in 2046 if I can keep it at no more than 6 turns a tech.


Play Monarch for a fair challenge

Originally posted by gormtheold

As I didn't expect iron in Japan (there is some, though the readme suggests that there is not),


:eek: What a bad stupid mistake! I really don't know what I was thinking about when I put that iron there.

Originally posted by gormtheold

I get the point of doing 6 and 60 on the tech. I have always relied on a couple of 4s to speed the thing along. Two questions:
1. Do you think setting the thing back to 4 would cause the AI to start swapping like mad in antiquity and all have railroads by 200 B.C. or do you think that would be relatively harmless (at least in regent) because it is rare to get a tech for less than 6 anyway),

I think that reducing from 6 to 4 is harmless. Instead 60 to 40 would speed-up early ages

Originally posted by gormtheold

and 2. What do you think "accelerated production" would do to the thing, bring back all the problems you just got rid of?


I've never played with accelerated production. But I've seen that cities produce X2 faster. I don't know anything about research. Bur I think that this would distort the timeline and cause a slowness in the game loadings (too many units)

Originally posted by gormtheold

I'm looking forward to trying the Celts

My suggestion is to try the modern civs version. In my opinion it's even more realistic. For example, Germans have an incredible production power (and I suggest not to declare them war! :)); England colonize islands; Russia is very lange but a giant of paper (science backwards); Americans are very weak until 1700 but then they grow and become a world power in mid 1800
And If I were you, I'd play monarch. You seem to be too powerful in your regent game. As you've said, it's a bit "too easy": it's the right time to upgrade your level

gormtheold
Jun 12, 2003, 10:52 AM
Well, maybe it's just my style of play, but I always seem to have to become totally dominant relatively early or I lose. It seems like it's always too easy or too hard. I tend to intersperse developmental periods with unit-building periods, conquer the next civilization with swordsmen, the next one (or hopefully two) with the medieval unit, and then the next one or two with cavalry. By that time, especially if the great leaders created by the cavalry wars are available for the Hoover Dam and the Theory of Evolution, I tend to be unchallengable. If anybody is too equal going into the modern age, I tend to lose. Maybe requring six turns in the modern age would fix that by rendering whatever AIs survive into the modern age competitive less able to specialize and swap (does each AI have a different tech strategy? they must, cause they always seem able to collaborate rather than each one doing the same techs in the same order).

With regard to the hit early and hit often strategy, my son has a friend that follows this strategy to its logical conclusion (unlike me) and never researches anything, just builds units and piles up money and either takes or buys all the techs he needs. He beats it regularly at far higher levels than I. I just don't like that syle of play. I gotta have all sorts of buildings in my cities.

I will try the modern version, but perhaps I am too much of a purist in my pursuit of a historically accurate (as close as can be, I know it's a game). Derivative civilizations like the Americans, the English or the French running around in 3000 B.C. with spears always kind of offends me, particularly the Americans. At least the ancestors of the English and the French were reasonably close by, but the ancestors of the Americans (at least of the United States which is what Civ means by the Americans) were on a whole nother continent. I don't know why Abe Lincoln in furs offends me more than Mao or Bismarck or Joan of Arc (the saint with cleavage) but somehow it does. But then again, I spose they are no more ridiculous-looking than Xerxes in a straw hat or Shaka with a derby.

Thanks again for the wonderful work. Those of us (and there seem plenty) who are trying to do a simulation as well as a game (I know it's kind of silly, the thing's just a game) appreciate it.

Rhye
Jun 13, 2003, 06:41 PM
About me, I've a mixed style of play. I can switch to aggressive or isolationist mode depending on the situation.

About civ realism, this has always been the only criticism to the civilization game. It's a matter of opinions, but I can tolerate better modern civs in ancient age than ancient civs in modern ages. After all, it's only about 160 of 540 turns of historical mismatch (except for americans). In the other case, it's a mismatch for all the rest of the game (Celts or Carthaginians for more than 400 turns)

Iztvan
Jul 25, 2003, 02:25 AM
I just thought that I'd post and say "Excelent Mod, Rhye"! :goodjob:

The game actually went much faster! I actually didn't believe you when I first read it, but it all seems so logical now... So now I have implemented your most important changes in my own "Europe Mod". Faster turns means more Civ, and anything wich means More Civ has to be good! (apart from divorce and unemployment... ;) )

Some minor "problems" I noticed:
- It looks like the AI has some trouble coping with the rules changes. My normal playing level is Monarch, but I actually found Emperor difficulty neccessary. I guess that will change if I try uou the non-european civs... The AI seemd to "burn out" its cities by building settlers more than usual. Not much to do about this I guess.
- You said that the tech progress should be historical at monarch, but both I and the AI lagged behind quite a lot. Not that I mind. Perhaps this was because I was able to conquer most of Europe in the ancient era, so I was alone researching?

I like the way the wars turned out. In western and central europe the swordsmen dominated due to the rough terrain, but in eastern europe the horsemen diminated the open steppes. Cool!

I think this mod will be very interesting on the 180x180 map. And it will be playable to.

Once again, anyone who hasn't tried out this mod should do themselves a favour and download it. :D

Rhye
Jul 25, 2003, 07:54 AM
Thank you. I'd really like to see your mod when you've done it, as I'm very fond of mods set in Europe. BTW, please credit me if you use some concept thought up only by me.

The tech progess was historical at monarch in the games I played. I just noticed that playing an important role instead of sitting and watching accelerated a bit the research. So, I suppose that you had an important role in how the game developed. After all, if you're a skilled player, you could try if Emperor fits better.

If you're looking for a 180x180 version, I did it before this mod. But it didn't contain many of the features available here, including Incas and game speed. It was just a 180x180 world with rules adapted to fit that map.
I'm planning to release a version 2.0 after Conquests expansion. It will include probably a new map. But I've not yet decided if it will be 140 or 180

Iztvan
Jul 25, 2003, 08:43 AM
Well, it's not much of a mod yet. Just basicaly your rules on a 100x100 map of Europe ( I'm testing a few I've found in the C&C forum) with the number of civ's at around 16.
16 Civs on a 100x100 Map? Well, the average 100x100 8-Civ standard map has 60-80% Water, the maps of Europe has something like 60-80% Land, so you need a lot more Civs. Your changes to contact and map trading manages to delay trading enough, even though the periferal non-expansionistic nations risk getting . I've solved this by adding "canoe" (on pottery 0/0/1 transport: 1) to make it easier for England, Cartaghe, Egypt and Scandinavia to get into the game.
I've added the Poles (rel exp) and Hungarians (mil exp) to fill out eastern europe and the balkans (ok, I more or less stole the hungarians from another mod), I'm considering adding Ukraineans or Krim-tatars or something to fill out southern Russia. I haven't decided what to do with the Celts - to put them on Ireland as Irish, or in southern France as Gauls... I know it's not "the correct historical starting position", but just like you prefer modern civs, I prefer the Civs in their "final" homeland (like Turks in Turkey, not in central asia).
Right now I'm testing rules, maps and " Civ density", but in the future (post-Conquests?) I'd like to add a lot of flavour units.

Oops, sory. I guess I got a bit longwinded... but I like playing on Earth and in Europe.

edit
Ok, I added the Israelis to - or rather I just changed the Babylon to Israel and Hammurabbi to Solomon the wise. The arab peninsula wasn't on the map, so I put the Arabs in Modern Iraq/Syria, so there wasn't any room for Babylon.

Rhye
Jul 25, 2003, 11:28 AM
Mmmm. Do you want my opinion?
Take a 140x140 map of Europe without Iraq or other southern/eastern regions (eventually cut them)
Decide if you want to do a historical scenario (for example Europe nowdays or in 1700 or ......) or a ficticial with only starting positions.
As you must replace some non-euro civs, you should do it even with Romans, Vikings and Celts. BTW, Celts correct starting position is in Marseille, but the problem is having they fight with France, while they WERE the French!
I would choose the following 16 civs: France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, Russia, Austria, Serbia, Greece, Holland, Portugal, Sweden, Poland, Turkey, Ireland, Scotland.
Then on internet look for a leaderhead for each civ. In CFC forums look for a unique unit to assign for each civ. You may re-use Celts UU for Irish.

Iztvan
Jul 31, 2003, 04:23 AM
Ooh.. Play Europe without Middle East and North Africa? For a 16-20th century feeling, yes. But I like the ancient age to, and ancient/medieval european history isn't the same to me without Punic wars and Crusades! :)

But I see your point in having 16 "all euro civs". I'll just have to get a larger map & play with 24 Civs (31?) ;)
But It all depends on finding a nice and good map, cause I'm not good at making maps...

I have no problems with Celts in the Marseille area. There were celts in parts of Spain (celt-iberians) and northern Italy (po river valley) during the ancient period. And there were a lot of conflict between northern and southern France during the middle ages (Abligensian Crusades). So celts in this area fits perfectly!

I think I might have been wrong when I said that the AI had problems handling your mod compared to regular Civ... I just started a standard game on Emperor this weekend, and noticed that browsing this forum had made quite a change in my ability! :king:

You mentioned replacing Rome with Italy. What traits would you give Italy? I was thinking REL COM, since MIL doesn't realy feel right? UU & Leader? Garibaldi?

Rhye
Jul 31, 2003, 04:28 AM
Italy? Rel & Sci.
UU=Bersagliere (cheaper rifleman)
leaderhead=Vittorio Emanuele II or Cavour
Garibaldi should be one of the great leaders instead

Chizzy
Aug 01, 2003, 12:57 AM
I love this mod, it's so beautiful! But like another user whenever i talk to inca's the game crashes. I've saved my save game file, to assist in solving the problem. send me your email address, and i'll email it to you. I'm also going to download the larger version, as that seemed to fix the prob for the other guy (I've got the ptw small version)

Again, it's just beautiful, so well done, and so fast, I can't believe the difference!

Chizzy aka Tom
th*maschism@a*l.c*m

Rhye
Aug 01, 2003, 06:11 AM
very strange...
I'm really sorry for this problem, I've checked the installation zips and everything seems correct.
My e-mail is gabrit@portalis.it , I'll see what I can do. In the meantime download the larger version

Eddiit
Nov 23, 2003, 05:33 PM
when is your new version going to be up and running?

Rhye
Nov 28, 2003, 03:27 AM
hehehe.... :)
don't worry, I'm working on it!

Right now I'm creating the new map, all of my own. I've nearly finished the clean .bic. Then I have to put the resources and the CONQUESTS resources.
After that, the creation of the mod remains:

it SHOULD feature:

- the new 180x180 map (Robinson's projection)
- a new graphic modpack. It's been already made: go to http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69369
- 2 or 3 new terrains
- 1 new tech
- 1 new government
- 2 new wonders
- 1 or 3 new units
- 1 or 2 new civs (Ethiopia and perhaps Italy)
- import of the Rhye's of Civilization v1.0 rules
- an interesting new rule about the settlers (to be tested yet)
- a new rule about the mountains
- 22 civs in the same time (divided in ancient/modern)

Of course, for Conquests only.

Eventually, if everything goes right I could update the standard and PTW versions with only minor changes:

- the new graphic modpack
- 1 new tech
- 1 new government
- 1 new wonder
- 2 new units
- perhaps the 2 new civs
- the settlers and the mountains new rules
- NO new map

Rhye
Nov 28, 2003, 03:40 AM
A preview of the clean 180 map (with the new graphics)

Rhye
Dec 02, 2003, 01:18 PM
The map is done!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=70634

Rhye
Dec 20, 2003, 01:32 PM
Here are the files:

[files removed]

Unzip both in your Conquests\scenarios folder and load civ-content.

Here's what I need:

- Take Portugal and with all standard settings and Monarch level
- Choose as opponents Spain, France, Germany, England, Russia, Netherlands, China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Ottomans, Persia, Arabia, Egypt, Zulu, Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Iroquois, America, India
- Keep track of:
--- the date when America is discovered
--- the date when the first civ enters Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- the date when four or more civs have entered Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- who builds wonders most of the time
--- who's strong and who's weak and who's eliminated
--- who produces many cities
--- who's least advanced
--- what's American civs science advancement when first contacts happen (like if they still are in Ancient or in Middle Ages)
--- if plagues work and if they are annoying or not
--- if you see other civs using their UU or not
- Give me savegames (very important!!) of:
--- 1400 BC
--- 110AD or 130AD
--- a few turns before 1400AD (like 1380, 1390)
--- a savegame for each time you enter a new age



Can you do that? Now you understand why I'm so slow: I was doing it myself :)
Instead I'll focus on adding civs, techs etc. and then balance the game with your results (for example if a civ is too strong I'll weaken it; techs cost should be revisited, too)

Lachlan
Dec 20, 2003, 02:54 PM
Cool ! I will test it ! Perhaps ;)

Lord_Azazel
Dec 31, 2003, 11:05 AM
sounds like a very good map, Im downloading it now 90%, Im looking forward to see it, I usually dont download big mods cause of the size I only got ISDN 64.000kbit so I sure hope its worth it, I really think so

Chizzy
Dec 31, 2003, 01:29 PM
For us broadband impared, anything isdn is not an only. I had broadband once, and I've missed it ever since. Especially now that I'm in the middle of nowhere, and stuck at 28.8 on a good day.

Chizzy

Rhye
Jan 02, 2004, 01:58 PM
any news from lachlan?

Lachlan
Jan 02, 2004, 02:07 PM
Rhye i'm not dead :lol:

But i don't like to read "beta" ....

I was waiting for 1.0 version :rolleyes:

Happy new year :goodjob:

Rhye
Jan 03, 2004, 07:13 PM
hey I need your feedback to make 1.0! :)

Lachlan
Jan 04, 2004, 06:27 AM
And you ? You don't test ? :confused:

Ok i will test but not hope a great feedback :)

Lachlan
Jan 04, 2004, 06:30 AM
Why monarch level ? Regent is fifty-fifty :confused:

First feedback : Civ by period please !

My game is a few slow, less benefit than PTW version

Rhye
Jan 05, 2004, 07:47 AM
Can you please post or send me a PM with the report I asked?

The game must be slower than old Rhye's of Civilization PTW: 180x180 map instead of 140x140 and 22 civs instead of 16....but you must compare it with a game played on the Earth with standard rules

Lachlan
Jan 05, 2004, 08:45 AM
Rhye i have tested 30 Min and have byzantines and hittites is not fun ...

I prefer test splited epoch maps

Rhye
Jan 05, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Rhye

- Take Portugal and with all standard settings and Monarch level
- Choose as opponents Spain, France, Germany, England, Russia, Netherlands, China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Ottomans, Persia, Arabia, Egypt, Zulu, Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Iroquois, America, India
- Keep track of:
--- the date when America is discovered
--- the date when the first civ enters Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- the date when four or more civs have entered Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- who builds wonders most of the time
--- who's strong and who's weak and who's eliminated
--- who produces many cities
--- who's least advanced
--- what's American civs science advancement when first contacts happen (like if they still are in Ancient or in Middle Ages)
--- if plagues work and if they are annoying or not
--- if you see other civs using their UU or not
- Give me savegames (very important!!) of:
--- 1400 BC
--- 110AD or 130AD
--- a few turns before 1400AD (like 1380, 1390)
--- a savegame for each time you enter a new age


Hittites? Byzantines? The list of civs I gave you was almost the "modern side"

Lachlan
Jan 06, 2004, 04:56 AM
Ask this test to other, i abandon

Jin23
Jan 07, 2004, 06:00 AM
Hi Rhye,

Might be able to help u out here. I got tired of waiting for you Rhye of Civ Conquest version, so I made my own using your conquest map. I replaced Hitties with Austrians, added a few units and resources but otherwise, the rules are 99% identical to yours. I play with 31 civs and the loading times are on average 2 to 2.5 minutes at 1605 AD. Every single continent is occupied for a while now (not sure when, I got the world map late).

I have played short games with many civs but my longest game so far is with America. Portugal discovered the new world at about 1375 AD. So far 5 civs (France, German, Dutch, Russia and China) are in Industrial ages. I am about 5-6 techs behind but have the largest land area (this is Monarch level btw).

Everyone else is roughly about the same level as I am, give or take 2-3 techs except Rome (they are about 8-10 behind). Rome always seem to lag behind cos the Celts cut off their expansion. Sumer and Egypt always seem to dominate the Middle East.
China is the biggest in Asia, Inca in Sth America and France, Germany and Russia in Europe.

Wonders are fairly evenly held except for the French... they have 8 wonders and their most advanced tech is nationalism.

Persia has been elminated, Maya, Aztec and Iroquois are pretty much goners thanks to me. Austria is also in their death throes. Greece and Rome are very weak. Mongols are a decent size but the poor of their land hinders their development and they just got chivalry ! (FYI I have already tried to boost them with sheep resources on mountains which provide 2 food and 2 gold... in your map they would be goners...)

I added in plague and they are not very deadly so far (I set it to default). Only lost about 3 units.

If you need any more info, just yell out.

Rhye
Jan 07, 2004, 01:44 PM
Thank you very much, Jin!!! I needed this kind of help to get on with this work.
Have you got some savegames? I'd like to try them on my PC. I need
--- 1400 BC
--- 110AD or 130AD
--- a few turns before 1400AD (like 1380, 1390)
--- a savegame for each time you enter a new age
--- your last savegame

By the way, I know that Celts are a big problem for European civs develpment. The solutions are:
1- splitting civs in two groups, like old Rhye's of Civilization
2- substituting Celts and Hittites with Austria and another one (I'd prefer Ethiopia)
What would you prefer?

Oh, another thing. Can you tell me what rules are different from mine in your savegames? For example, did you import "build never" settings?

Lachlan
Jan 07, 2004, 02:00 PM
Rhye, what do you think to include Australia/Aborigens

Rhye
Jan 07, 2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Lachlan
Rhye, what do you think to include Australia/Aborigens

I thought about it, but there's no leaderhead made for that civ

Jin23
Jan 08, 2004, 01:21 AM
Hi Rhye,

The problem is I added alot of flavour units from the conquests pack and WWII packs (same stats though) so it would be difficult for you to open up my saves unless you go and rename some of the units in the art folder.

Personally, I like my mod as it is :) The main European nations are quite ahead which is historical correct and at any rate a human Rome player should have no probs since I had a go and conquered most of Europe fairly easily. Its just that the AI will rather waste the resources to build a city in Siberia instead of attacking a neighbour.

The rules that are slightly different are:

- I increased the times for worker jobs, but not quite as much as yours. Doesn't seem to matter cos I haven't seen the AI clear forest just to build a city.

- I didn't import the build never rules. As it is, the native american civs are already at a disadvantaged due to the bad terrain and isolation. In my current game , things are pretty historically correct anyway with these civs lagging behind.

- My settlers cost 30 shields and 3 food although I am going to increase it to 4 to slow the AI even more. I might increase length of worker jobs too to slow the AI again.

- No change to corruption, but optimal city set to 40 so u have to build the forbidden palace after about 20 cities

- No change in golden age length, research times or starting techs

- My floodplains still produce 3 food

- No increase in town, city, etc defense bonuses

Seriously, I think 31 civs with your rules will be very playable if the map is 160 X 160. One more suggestion, even with barbarians set to sedentary, there are still too many barbarian units in northern canada and russia just sitting slowing down the game, so I am gonna set barbarian activity to none, so once u clear the initial camps, that's it. I mean with 31 civs, you shouldn't
run out of ppl to attack !!!

I am gonna experiment with increasing unit shield costs as well to see if that will speed the game up although the current waiting times aren't too bad.

Rhye
Jan 08, 2004, 04:27 AM
ok, so you were refering to the old Rhye's of Civilization rules. It seems that the only important change (regarding spped) you made was settlers population cost.
I'm going to start now tests myself with my 180x180 (I can't create a 160 map from the 180 thanks to Firaxis laziness) with 31 civs, some new rules and some addictions.

I'd like to try to see your saves anyway (I would try myself to make them work). Can you send them to gabrit@portalis.it ?

Oh, two more things:
- Can you remember when Middle Ages and Industrial Ages were reached by first civs?
- I asked that thing about wonders because in new rules (the version I posted for Lachlan in page 4) I tried to assing some flavours for driving for example Euro civs to build Christian wonders (like Chapels etc.) and not pagan like Pyramids, Mediterranean civs to build things like Oracle, Lighthouse and not for example Great Wall, driven to Far Eastern, and so on.
I don't know if you've tried with these settings in your game. In case of yes, I'd like to know if it happened correctly in the game (except for the first ancient wonders, always built by the richest civs)

Jin23
Jan 08, 2004, 06:14 AM
Ok, I will send u my latest save with the biq and the paedicon and civilpaedia text to make it easier for you. It's about 1 mb so I
hope u have enough space.

Hmmn, I was kinda of toying with that idea and one solution I came up with is to make the pyramids and great wall require stone. Add this resource and place them near the civs u want to build them. What do u think?

First middle ages probably around 10-20 AD (based on other games), Industrial Ages around 1630-50 AD. Can't be specific cos I was on the "backward" continent.

Rhye
Jan 08, 2004, 06:22 AM
1MB??
hmmm I haven't that space
Can you upload it here on CFC forums and post here the link?
Thank you.

Jin23
Jan 08, 2004, 06:36 AM
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Saves1.zip

Rhye
Jan 08, 2004, 06:51 AM
Thank you.

Rhye
Jan 08, 2004, 11:27 AM
Great news! THanks to a new utility, I've resized my map to 170x170 without altering the shapes. And game speed will gain.
Now I'm converting it to BIQ again (the editor doesn't work with BIQs yet)

Jin23
Jan 08, 2004, 02:11 PM
Great !

Rhye
Jan 10, 2004, 02:05 PM
Update: Finished coversion of the map and added new civs and units.

What's missing now:
- new techs and wonders
- civilopedia
- test to balance tech weights
- test to balance civ strenght
- update readme.doc
- tests with other maps with 31 civs to compare loading times

Jin23
Jan 10, 2004, 05:33 PM
So did you mange to get my save game to work?

Rhye
Jan 10, 2004, 07:37 PM
No, it didn't want to work.

Rhye
Jan 12, 2004, 06:24 AM
A REQUEST

Has anybody here some saves of a game played in a world map of any size with 31 civs and no rule changes?
As I've said, I need to check 1300BC, 150AD and 1400AD to compare loading times.
Whicle 1300BC and 150AD are quite a simple task, waiting 5 minutes each turn to reach 1400AD is very boring. I could save much time if anybody has some old savegames. In particular I'm interested in having a savegame with a 256x256 map (like TETurkhan's) and 352x352 (ElMencey's)

Iztvan
Jan 13, 2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Rhye
Here are the files:

[files removed]

Unzip both in your Conquests\scenarios folder and load civ-content.

Here's what I need:

- Take Portugal and with all standard settings and Monarch level
- Choose as opponents Spain, France, Germany, England, Russia, Netherlands, China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Ottomans, Persia, Arabia, Egypt, Zulu, Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Iroquois, America, India
- Keep track of:
--- the date when America is discovered
--- the date when the first civ enters Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- the date when four or more civs have entered Middle ages, Industrial and Modern ages
--- who builds wonders most of the time
--- who's strong and who's weak and who's eliminated
--- who produces many cities
--- who's least advanced
--- what's American civs science advancement when first contacts happen (like if they still are in Ancient or in Middle Ages)
--- if plagues work and if they are annoying or not
--- if you see other civs using their UU or not
- Give me savegames (very important!!) of:
--- 1400 BC
--- 110AD or 130AD
--- a few turns before 1400AD (like 1380, 1390)
--- a savegame for each time you enter a new age



Can you do that? Now you understand why I'm so slow: I was doing it myself :)
Instead I'll focus on adding civs, techs etc. and then balance the game with your results (for example if a civ is too strong I'll weaken it; techs cost should be revisited, too)


Do you still want this tested? I can have a go at this, Rhye, if you want some help. I'll have a little time of after jan 15:th. I have the 180x180 map but not the rules.

Rhye
Jan 13, 2004, 11:01 AM
No. I have a new map now, and I added some things that made the zip files bigger, so I can't give you the mod right now.

The only thing that could make me save time is giving me some savegames I've written above, if you have.
In fact I'll take a 140x140, 180x180, 256x256 and maybe 312x312 and press end of turn - end of turn - end of turn - end of turn.....till reaching 1300BC, 150AD, 1400AD, and then write loading times.
Very boring :) Usually I do something else while I press enter once in five minutes.

Iztvan
Jan 13, 2004, 12:15 PM
Sorry, I don't have any save-files like that... :(

I'll play your 180x180 world map with standard rules & 31 civs and see how far I get, though.

Rhye
Jan 13, 2004, 02:00 PM
No, wait.
If you want to do something, play on TETurkhan 256x256 (just press enter and save often)

Iztvan
Jan 13, 2004, 03:47 PM
My computer is to old for TETurkan, I think. I tried it once, and it froze, more or less... :(
And there is no TETurkan C3C mod, right?
Is there anything else I can do to help?

Rhye
Jan 13, 2004, 05:32 PM
Upload doesn't work.

When it works I'll post the link to a savegame.
You must only press enter

Rhye
Jan 14, 2004, 03:46 AM
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Henry_Portuguese,_3950BC.zip

Here it is. It's TETurkhan's map only, no scenario. You're in the ocean, not building nor researching anything. Just end of turn.
Keep going as long as you can, and save before 1300BC, 150AD and 1400AD.
If you give up, give me your last save

Iztvan
Jan 14, 2004, 07:56 AM
Big math test tomorrow. Will look into it after that. I'll sit in front of the computer and read a bock, hitting enter once every paragraph! ;)

Should I post saves here or mail them to you?

Rhye
Jan 14, 2004, 08:57 AM
Upload the saves here with "upload file", thank you.

In the meantime I've tested the 140x140, completed addictions and I'm making Civilopedia and readme.doc.
Next (and last) step will be testing my mod and balance tech weights and tech rate to fit timeline

Iztvan
Jan 14, 2004, 04:08 PM
You'll do 140x140 and ... 170x170?

It'll be intresting to see what changes you've made. Anything revolutionary, except from what we've seen in the PTW edition?

Iztvan
Jan 14, 2004, 04:50 PM
Oops! zip-file is empty! Upload it again, Rhye, and I'll play!

Rhye
Jan 14, 2004, 05:10 PM
?? There's a .sav inside. Just checked!

Rhye
Jan 15, 2004, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Iztvan
You'll do 140x140 and ... 170x170?

It'll be intresting to see what changes you've made. Anything revolutionary, except from what we've seen in the PTW edition?

I tested 140x140 only to compare loading times.

The map of the mod is 170x170
There will be some changes in the rules (some added, some removed from vanilla/PTW versions), 31 civs game, new terrain graphics, 2 new civs, some units and tech addictions. No ancient/modern division.

This enhancement (170x170 with 31 civs) forces the mod to be a bit slower but it still is faster than a standard 140

Iztvan
Jan 15, 2004, 08:45 AM
This is strange! I downloaded it twice yesterday and once right now - nothing happens when I try to unzip, and if i open it, it is empty.
If we can't solve this, if it's ok, I'll just:
1) Take teturkans 256x256 map from ptw
2) Import it into C3C (just the map, not the rules)
3) Add all civs.
4) Place a little island in the middle of nowere, surrounded by impassable terrain and place portugal (?) there.
5) Start playing!

Sounds ok?

Rhye
Jan 15, 2004, 10:25 AM
Try again with this. It includes BIQ, too (take Portugal to start in the ocean)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/again.zip

Or, if the problem is in Winzip, here's the save non-zipped

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Henry.SAV

Iztvan
Jan 15, 2004, 03:43 PM
Went smooth!
Will start playing asap.
1300BC, 150AD and 1400AD saves right?
Play as portugal, right?

Rhye
Jan 16, 2004, 05:40 PM
I forgot to mention the addiction of LM terrains.

How is it going? Did you fall asleep? :)

Iztvan
Jan 17, 2004, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Rhye
I forgot to mention the addiction of LM terrains.

How is it going? Did you fall asleep? :)

Fall asleep? I WISH! :cry: :lol:
Phew, that was slow! I got to 150AD yersterday before my back started protesting loudly (unconfortable chair) and I had to quit. By then the wait was already at approx 2 minutes. :rolleyes:

Quite intresting to see how the different Civs were developing. Someone should invent a utility that just pressed enter for X number of turns...

I'll try to get back to it as soon as my private life allows, hopefully tomorrow.

Rhye
Jan 17, 2004, 09:02 AM
Hehe good work (remember to post saves)

Guess my loading times...
4 sec. in 1300BC
5 s in 150AD (reduced, it was 7.5 s two weeks ago)
2 min. ca. in 1400 AD (but it has still to be reduced)

Iztvan
Jan 19, 2004, 05:10 PM
600 AD and counting... ca 7-8 minutes loading time... finished this week, i hope... :sad:
How anyone could endure playing such a map is beyond my comprehension. :confused:

Rhye
Jan 19, 2004, 06:52 PM
Thank you very much. Do it slowly if you want, no need to hurry.

In the meantime I reduced to 1.47 loading in 1400AD.

wanwei
Jan 19, 2004, 08:04 PM
is this mod any good???

Rhye
Jan 20, 2004, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by wanwei
is this mod any good???

what do you mean? Have you got C3C?

wanwei
Jan 20, 2004, 06:53 PM
Yes, i do... i try on my pc, it doesn seems to be faster than the rest of the mods...

Rhye
Jan 20, 2004, 08:01 PM
The results in the first page are true.

Try a 256x256 Earth map with 31 civs in the same time. Reach 1400AD, then tell me if it is bearable....
This mod is much faster than other EARTH mods.
If you are still convinced...well, you probably have a computer from NASA.

HeartOfTroy
Jan 20, 2004, 11:33 PM
Where is the conquest version?

Later

HOT

PS... Im seeing faster load times from less civs in my experiments and Ive seen a civ player get destroyed completely but was still alive ...LOL... I love that and wish it was always so so I couold Libierate countries..LOL!

Rhye
Jan 21, 2004, 04:25 AM
Conquests version (v2.0) is in development

wanwei
Jan 21, 2004, 08:07 PM
lol...

Rhye
Jan 22, 2004, 07:00 AM
Update:
I've written all the new things in Civilopedia and written the readme.
The last thing is I'm doing is balancing tech weights with timeline.
When this is done and Iztvan work's done, I'll wait for Thunderfall to give me an account for the ftp (better putting only one file instead of splitting many confusing parts)

Lachlan
Jan 22, 2004, 07:18 AM
Yeah ! :soldier:

Yes to World War !

Iztvan
Jan 24, 2004, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Rhye
... and Iztvan work's done, ...

Status report 1030AD:
- turn length approx 20 minutes.
- 1030ad to 1400ad = 52 turns
- 52 turns * 20 min = 17h 20min

So, hopefully I'll be finished this weekend :D unless turns start getting much longer :rolleyes:

Rhye
Jan 24, 2004, 07:00 AM
20 minutes!!!! I couldn't imagine that!!
What computer have you got?

Oh, please start posting the 1300BC and 150AD saves, I need to check on my PC to be fair

Iztvan
Jan 24, 2004, 11:04 AM
700MHZ AMD Duron, 128 MB. A bit old, haven't done any "cleaning" in a while, so yeah ypur's probably a bit faster.

Upploading 1300bc, 150ad and 1110ad (that's as far as I've come):

1300bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TET,_1300_BC.zip)
150ad (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TET,_150_AD.zip)
1110ad (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TET,_1110_AD.zip)

If You find that you're much faster than 20 minutes at 1110ad, then maybe I'm wasting my time on this computer? If you're not that much faster, just let me know, and I'll keep going.

Rhye
Jan 24, 2004, 12:45 PM
Please keep going on with it. It's faster on my PC, but not that much and I'm doing the same thing with my mod: lots of games (or better, just press enter) to see what's to be balanced. So if I do one thing I can't to the other one.

Instead, I need a native english speaker to check if everything's allright in the new readme.doc
If here there's nobody, I'll post a thread in Creation&Customization forum

Iztvan
Jan 24, 2004, 01:05 PM
I'm on it! :) I'll post it asap. I'll keep it going all day tomorrow, so perhaps it will be finished?

Rhye
Jan 27, 2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Rhye
In the meantime I reduced to 1.47 loading in 1400AD.

Good news!

Reduced to 1.17!!! :crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye:

Iztvan
Feb 04, 2004, 03:25 PM
So, i reached 1400ad today. The last turn loaded at somewhat more than 40 minutes. :lol:

1400ad (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TET,_1400_AD.zip)

I'm looking forward to the finished mod. Let me know if you need any help with anything.

Rhye
Feb 04, 2004, 05:25 PM
LOL!

The peak should be in 1600 ca. Then, sooner or later a world war explodes and cuts some civs and cities. (I'll write this in the readme)

I'm in 1950 A.D. of my last test game. I hope to reach the end tomorrow morning. Then, I'll look for Thunderfall on ICQ for posting.

Many thanks! Your work is complete and mine soon will be, too!

Rhye
Feb 05, 2004, 10:33 AM
"What happened to the post war dream?"

Rhye
Feb 05, 2004, 06:12 PM
Finished.
I hope to find Thunderfall on ICQ as soon as possible.

Rhye
Feb 05, 2004, 09:46 PM
DONE!!!!!!!!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77848

Scott Alexander
Jan 24, 2005, 07:15 AM
Sorry to bump this thread, but, being stuck in the past, I still have only the vanilla version of Civ3. I'd like to play this modpack, but the links on the front page seem to be broken. Is this non-Conquests version up in a new location now? I can't access the modpack site either.

Rhye
Jan 29, 2005, 09:53 AM
you're right, the downloads seem broken...
I'm sorry.

MANLADY
Feb 05, 2005, 09:34 AM
I really like your modpacks, with their attention to historical accuracy and much faster loading times.

I don't know if this has been posted before, but to me there seems to be one minor historical inaccuracy that should be corrected. This occurs not only in your modpacks, but in the standard game as well.

If I'm not mistaken, aircraft carriers were built AFTER aircraft were invented. So the preq. for aircraft carriers should be flight, correct?

I'm a new member to Civ 3 fanatics, and this is my first reply, so please don't shoot the messenger :)

Rhye
Feb 05, 2005, 10:29 AM
This modpack (for vanilla and ptw) doesn't alter the tech tree.

Instead ROCX does, and what you say is corrected.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=77848
It is for Conquests

MANLADY
Feb 05, 2005, 11:29 AM
Thanks for telling me. I guess i didn't really look into it... :blush:

Grand Cadfael
Mar 30, 2005, 12:32 PM
The link is broken

Rhye
Mar 30, 2005, 02:12 PM
Yes they are broken, I'm sorry.

As this thread was for v1.0 (obsolete), now only the Conquests version is available
Here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111977&page=1&pp=20


I'll ask the moderator to close this thread

Chunky Kong
Apr 10, 2005, 01:02 AM
Will you ever bring it back?