The great thing about the situation now is that Germany has to go through the Korean empire to get to us. What a luxury :cool:

By the way: plenty of time to discuss our current situation. I'm not going to play this until tomorrow. I must be completely focused :lol:

Thinking about it a little more, we probably need more preparation if we are to move into Germany. The defenses in the parts I invaded were not too strong and many roads had been cut.
I think Germany also didn't have its FP in former China but rather up north. Therefore, the only extra troops they got down there were probably rushed. If we invade Germany proper, we'll have to deal with more Panzers (I don't know how many they have left - It should by now be safe to try and plant another spy to find out). Also, they'll be able to move in reinforcements by railroad.
OTOH, we can cover our tanks with mech infs and they can't.

If at all feasible (say, in case of peace with Germany) we should take out the Iros and the Zulus just so they cannot trade any excess uranium they may have to the Japanese. IIRC the Japs lack rubber too. When we get Modern Armour they should be toast.

I agree with Hotrod though that we need to keep up (but not ahead) in the space race just in case.

If we maintain our alliances we also have the option of winning via UN by capturing Berlin, buying in the Iro's and holding the vote. There's a risk they might prefer the Japs though.

Good thinking Jack. I agree that we clearly conquered the easiest part of Germany. What a timing to conquer it completely before I took over! I don't know about the Zulu and Iroquois yet. I have to look at the save for a complete picture, but I'm afraid for a wasp-nest...

Aggie, I think we have a spy in the Iroquois military, and if we don't, getting one would be nice, letting us know how many Mech. Infantry they have right now. We'll definitely need tanks to slog through that, and we know that Korea has Computers already, IIRC.

Neither the Zulu nor the Iros even have motorized transportation ! I haven't seen any Korean mech inf - maybe mech inf require rubber too ? - edit: the Koreans have been hurt pretty bad by the Germans. They lost a couple of cities but more importantly, their territory has been severely pillaged.

Originally posted by jack merchant
1530 AD (10) ....
It's fortunate that Germany lacks aluminium; that means no mech inf and modern armour for them, also, I think it is a required resource for a number of spaceship parts.

My first action during my 10 turns was to plant a spy in Berlin (for 162 gold). The Germans have:

-63 Mech Infs:eek: (doesn't require aluminum!!)
-21 Panzers
-36 Infs
-23 Arty

All in all: weak in attack, strong in defense. '

EDIT: Question (also still pre-turn): we are in a position to sell Space Flight to Japan for 263 gpt, 1300 gold and ivory. Should I?

We can also get a gpt deal from Korea, but they might not survive 20 turns...

we'll need more guns.....

I'd say do not sell space flight to Japan. We probably can stop the Germans from launching but we cannot possibly stop the Japanese unless we make certain they keep lacking crucial resources.

You might already be playing though :)

Indeed I'm playing. Don't expect a full report until tonight though. It's tough all the fighting :ar15: I didn't make the deal with Japan and the Germans are still an issue :eek:

As I said earlier, I planted a spy in Berlin. Next I trade wm with Korea to investigate the current Korean railroad health. At least we are able to cross Korea still.
I will not plant a spy in Salamanca just yet. The Iroquois are too far away: we'd have to cross German terrain.

Liverpool, Dover, Warwick switched to libraries.

IT: Our lone tank in Germany got killed.

Turn 1 (1535 AD) I rush a couple of libraries in former england/Germany. I upgrade our 4 pikes, 2 spear and 3 rifles to Mech Infs (1500 gold).
Created a SoD in Houston of 30 Arty, 5 Mech Infs and 17 tanks.
I want to land them south of St. Petersburg, but a Korean guerilla blocks the road in their own territory.
So is send a couple of worker to help them railroad a bit.

Turn 2 (1540 AD) Our forces are positioned all around St. Petersburg. I had to do a little railroading and polution cleaning, but we got our transport route to Germany back!

IT: Germany only hurt us a bit in their defense of Gnome. No counter-attack against our ever growing SoD near St. Petersburg!
Bismarck failed to plant a spy.

Turn 3 (1545) We completed the docking bay and the cockpit of our spaceship. :hammer: No other civ started anything yet.
We dispersed a barb camp and got 25 gold! [party] Bah, the Germans have a leader (looking at F3).
Bombardment of St. Petersburg shows us that it is defended with 4 Mech Infs. I got the size down to 19.

IT: 2 Mech Infs got red-lined in the counterattack of Germany. Nothing more.

Turn 4 (1550 AD)
St. Petersburg is size 6 after a bit of arty and has no factory, hydro and a lot of other stuff anymore. The siege of St. Peterbrug has 6 tanks killed, but we manage to take out the 3 Mech Infs and 3 panzers. St. Petersburg is razed and we get 1492 gold.
I might have been a bit too hasty, but I also take ou Nampo'o, for 1000 gold. The losses here are minimal.

IT: We lose a couple of tanks and mech infs, but Germany loses at least as much Panzers. I wouldn't place an undefended leader next to an enemy's tank :smoke: :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/HOT3germanleader.JPG

Turn 5 (1555 AD)
War weariness is growing. So the lux slider goes to 20%. We still make 700 gpt and have 11000 gold cash. Kanawhake razed for 1000 gold. No losses.

IT: heavy battles between us and the Germans. Split results, nothing worrying.

Turn 6 (1560 AD)
We complete the engine of our spaceship. No-one else started with the ship yet.
I kill a couple of German Panzers with the arty/tank combo and rush a few improvements. You have to do something with all the money.

IT: No real counterattack from the Germans. The only thing they can do is ruin the Korean railroad to their territory with bombers.

Turn 7 (1565 AD)
Research has basically stopped. No tech was discovered since I took over from Jack. Quiet turn: preparation for the siege of Nuremberg.

IT: The Germans lose 4 Panzers against our Mech Infs. Korea and Zulu join forces vs the Iroquois!

Turn 8 (1570 AD)
More artillery fire. Nuremberg is down to 14 pop.
Germany has Satellites. We have enough for a save steal. It cost us 4700 gold, but we have it :). Iznik switched to SS thrusters (in 3). By the way: our income jumped to 1000 gpt.

IT: Feeble German counter-attacks

Turn 9 (1575 AD)
We manage to raze Ulsan and earn 1000 gpt in the process.

IT: The Germans lose 6 Panzers vs our Mech Infs. One of our Mech Infs is destroyed. I see that Korea also manages to take out a couple of Panzers.

Turn 10 (1580 AD)
One souce of Unranium is exhausted. We have 5 left.
The tiny town of Nuremberg (this size one town used to be size 26) razed and 1000 gold robbed from the German safes.

Next player:
We are in a winning position. We can choose how we want to win now:
- UN: Capture Cologne and bribe the AI
- Space Ship: we still are the only civ to have finished a few parts of the ship
- Domination: takes very long

I didn't check out our hapiness in the last turn and also didn't trade. We have the Manhattan project as a possible build option. We are able to create ICBM's (nice pre-builds!) so maybe we should build the MP after Izink finishes SS thrusters.

1580 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3-1580AD.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/HOT3germanyaverage.JPG

Looking good Aggie !

IIRC we should be able to sign peace next turn honorably (not saying that we should, but it's an option), jack down the lux tax and build research labs everywhere for Ecology and Synthetic Fibers (which is a required tech for the space race anyway).
As long as we're the only ones still in republic, we can beat everyone to it (and take over the continent just in case).
Making peace might speed things up by allowing the AIs to switch back to democracy - with our head start on the spaceship, we can definitely beat them but it's no fun to have to do all the research by ourselves. If we have to do all the research ourselves, it might still get back to me :eek:
I don't remember exactly where Cologne is (I thought the UN was built in Berlin?) but if we can capture the UN, so much the better. I doubt anyone could win a vote at this point though.

I'd vote against the manhattan project if we remain at war - the Germans are bound to nuke us, being the evil scum that they are :lol: (in-game, obviously)

On final reflection, I think I'd suggest peace with Germany but war with Korea - if Korea has no mech infs yet, that is. We'll want our troops on German borders as an insurance policy and I don't think Korea is going to contribute much to the space race anymore. We should be able to knock them out easily without slowing down our move towards space.

The UN is in Cologne. Nuremburg used to be the neighbouring city of Cologne, before I razed it :p

Imho Germany is still our biggest enemy (technologically far ahead together with us). Let's first capture/raze another 3 or 4 cities before making peace. And at least deny them some resources :lol:

Got it.

Ouch! I ended up in the hospital unexpectedly, and between that and moving I won't be able to play Civ until tomorrow afternoon. If anyone can grab it within the next 15 hours or so, post and I'll wait for your turns instead. Sorry about the delay without posting.

Sorry to hear it Borealis. I hope it's nothing serious. I'd suggest to take our time with this. Hotrod won't be back until the 19th.

Just a heads-up to the team that I won't be able to play until late on Sunday or Monday morning at the earliest. Feel free to skip or swap my turn if it comes up before then (I will be able to access the forums before then).

1580 AD (0): The military spy shows the following information:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1580ad.JPG

I'm going to make peace honorably with Bismarck after taking one more city, and speed the tech pace up. A leader would be nice, with our FP two cities from our capital, as a new palace would make former England/China productive, but we're probably not going to get one from Bismarck. Korea might be an option, but doing so immediately might be a bad idea as we have a RoP with them.

(IT): Biz kills some of our mech inf. and tanks with panzers. Japan and Korea sign an MA vs. the Iroquois.

Also- I've never seen this happen before: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/hot3_1580adspy.JPG


1585 AD (1): Iznik builds SS Thrusters. No one else has started their spaceship yet. Arty bombard but fail to make much of a dent- I think Bismarck must have civil defense, and I see that he has radar towers.

(IT): We renew RoP, MPP with Japan. Germany's Panzers are favored by the RNG over our Mech. Inf. Germany and Korea sign a peace treaty.

I've never seen this happen before, either- Germany must have some good Communist spies.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1585adIT.JPG

Global Warming occurs in Korea.

1590 AD (2): More arty bombing.

(IT): The Germans sabotage production of a Police Station in Miami. :confused:

1595 AD (3): WW increases and several cities riot.

(IT): Alliance with Zulus against Germany cancelled.

1600 AD (4): Cologne is bombed down to low pop levels.

1605 AD (5): Japan has Ecology now, and we renew our 2-for-1 lux deal with them.

(IT): Gems for gpt deal renewed with Japan.


1610 AD (6):http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1610ad.JPG

I don't think we'll ever win a vote, as Germany and Korea hate us, but Germany hates Japan, so we should be able to at least deny Japan a majority.

1615 AD (7): More arty bombing. Culture rushed in Cologne.

1620 AD (8): More of the same. Lux to Iroquois for straight-up cash (a fair price) makes Hiawatha polite; I should have done this earlier in hopes for a good UN vote. Germany will abstain, and Korea will probably vote for Tokugawa. Zululand is the swing vote.

(IT): Iroquois and Zululand sign a peace treaty. A German Panzer army heads to Zululand, probably the reason for that treaty... wait, we're at war with Germany, so hopefully Shaka will like us more!


1625 AD (9): This screen comes up...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1625AD.JPG

And...

Grrr! We need a conclusive majority!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_UNvote.JPG

Well, at least we know that we won't lose the UN vote, as long as Hiawatha is happy with us. We might be able to also win it if we take out Korea.

1630 AD (10): More artillery. I think we should either take Moscow, make peace with Germany, and build the SS, or go for domination overrunning the continent. Diplo will not be an option unless we can get the world allied against Tokugawa, but at least it will be difficult for the AI to win that way. Japan has Ecology, and lacks Satellites. We don't have a spy in Germany any more, and we're unlikely to have one as long as Germany is Communist.

I vote for the SS victory unless we get Modern Armor soon, since Tanks vs. Mech Infantry is dicey even with artillery, especially with the new Civil Defense improvement. We might have to self-research soon as the AI is slooooow.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1630ad.zip

Welcome back Borealis. Great turn! But the UN was quite a gamble, wasn't it :eek:

EDIT: if I remember correctly, Hotrod willbe back soon to take it :). Jack Merchant will be back on Monday if afaik. That would fit perfectly.

Originally posted by Borealis
I'm going to make peace honorably with Bismarck after taking one more city
I'm glad you didn't: too much cultural pressure on Cologne, our UN.

A leader would be nice, with our FP two cities from our capital, as a new palace would make former England/China productive

I agree! We want to have a second economical centre.

Korea might be an option, but doing so immediately might be a bad idea as we have a RoP with them.

Let's get them as soon as the ROP expires! They have no MI to defend them.

Grrr! We need a conclusive majority!

I'm happy that we didn't lose. We were not exactly friendly in the last couple of hunderds of years ;)

I think we should either take Moscow, make peace with Germany, and build the SS, or go for domination overrunning the continent.

I know that war vs Germany is difficult, but we need to get rid of the cultural pressure around Cologne. I vote for two more cities and then go after Korea. Not for domination, but for leader fishing and training of the troops. I vote for the SS as a win. I want this game over before X-mas ;)

Japan has Ecology, and lacks Satellites. We don't have a spy in Germany any more, and we're unlikely to have one as long as Germany is Communist.

We could steal the tech from Japan. I don't mind a war if we get caught. They're far away.

We might have to self-research soon as the AI is slooooow.

I agree.

I haven't got much to add to that. Very solid turn indeed :)

EDIT: hmmm, we still have a ROP with Korea for 11 turns :(

EDIT2: We could also trade a tech or two and get money to buy Ecology from the Japs (to avoid that war...).

I've got it but have a bit of catchup to do ;). Looks like a few interesting turns.

Hotrod

I'd vote for removing our troops from Korean territory and then declare war straight away, rop or no rop. As long as no troops are in Korean territory when we declare war, honour is satisfied imho (this after making peace with Germany, pushing them as hard as we can). We'll be sure of taking the UN win if we wipe out Korea & Germany and ally with the Zulu and the Iro's vs the Japs.

I'd suggest a steal from the Japanese before we make peace with the Germans as they're less likely to declare war when we're still fighting the same foe. Synthetic fibers is a prerequisite for 2 SS parts so we need it anyway. I'm not sure which one but IIRC the Japs lack at least one crucial resource - possibly rubber, maybe aluminium -this gives us more options.

PS I very much admire Borealis's guts in calling a UN vote, but I'm not sure I'd have dared calling it.

Jack merchant, the UN vote wasn't bad based on who the AI was at war with at the time, and the AI will never, ever vote for a civ it's not polite with. Also, being at war with Germany made Zululand like us more than Japan at the time- I wouldn't have called the vote had I made peace with Bismarck. I wanted to see if Japan's repeated backstabbing of the Iroquois, Zululand, etc., had soured them on Tokugawa, and indeed it did- if we can take out Korea and get a vote before an SS, we can probably bribe Hiawatha and Shaka into winning in the future. We'll probably be so close to the SS by the time we get another vote that this will be irrelevant, but calling the first vote was a good 'test case' to see how the neutral parties (Shaka and Hiawatha) would vote. Unfortunately, if Germany wipes Shaka out, this all goes down the drain. I saw multiple elite panzers, as well as a Panzer Army (!) heading towards Zululand, and Shaka is still far behind in tech- no Mech. Inf. there.

As far as stealing from Japan- Ecology is due in ~15 turns or so anyway, and I think Japan's still Communist, making even a safe steal risky. Also, trading for it might help speed their research, as the current world tech pace has gone into war-induced shell shock. Note that any stealing from Japan might also kill our lux deals, which are sort of necessary with War Weariness at 55%.

@Aggie: Cologne has had a new cultural improvement bought for it every turn, and if Hotrod continues this we should be able to avoid it flipping, even if we make peace. Also, the artillery reduced it to size 1 before we captured it, making any new citizens loyal to us. Right now, Moscow is being reduced to rubble, and we could probably swing around Cologne if necessary afterwards as long as Bismarck's panzers are busy in Zululand.

I have opened the game but will not get to it until tomrrow but I am not concerned with the flip. I intend to use our ROP with Korea to the fullest and move even more troops to a very well protected size 1 city :D. More importantly then the cultural improvements I think are the units. They work well for flip suppression. Taking out Moscow in then first few turns will help as well but I think tanks are not as effective against MI.

A few bombers may help as well. They are usefull in bringin cities down to size without the movement restrictions that artillery have. Cologne is a perfect home base to hit virtually all the German cities.

It should be a pretty interesting 10 turns!

Hotrod

Sorry for the slow turn around but this round is taking some time. Played 4 turns and expect to finish tomorrow if I can't I will let you all know tomorrow.

Update: Through 1650 AD I have razed Moscow and the Vial ToE and bombed Keiv to size 1, it should fall next turn. Konigsberg is on its way out as well.

Spying reveals that zulus and Koreans are weak and both would probably fall quickly but I will wait until I run up against substantial resistance by the Germans. A safe tech steal has failed against Japan as well and I still can't get spys into Germany.

Will keep you all posted.

Yeah, turns start to take AGES in Deity level modern age wars :)

I still remember RBE1: an hour a turn at the end! Spent half a saturday just playing 5 turns.

I strongly recommend you make playing just 5 turns an option :)

-Sirp.

Originally posted by Sirp
I strongly recommend you make playing just 5 turns an option :)

-Sirp.

Great idea!

Sounds like a plan - I will post my report and the 5 turns tonight and we can keep moving forward.

Had to do the same in the inf2 game when turns were pushing 2 hrs each :).

Hotrod

Hot 3

A quick survey before I do anything and I realize we don't have spys in Germany, Zulu, or Iroquios. Safely plant 1 in Zulu territory to get a read on who our next target will be.

Zulus: 22 infantry, 6 marines a rifle and a cavalry. :lol:.
Korea: 33 infantry, 9 tanks, 3 cavs a handful of battleships :D!.
Japan: 111 infantry, 19 tanks etc etc. including 5 cruise missles and a substantial navy.

Spys failed at Iroquios and Germany. Try for a safe steal on Japan and fails costing 4000+ gold :(. Communism makes that much difference I guess. Move artillery into postion to continue bombing Moscow next turn. This turn managed to take out cathedral, bank, colesseum, hit 5 MI and 1 citizen. Moved more units to the front lines and changed a few cities to bombers.

Attempted 1 attack on a 3/4 MI and lost 1 tank. I will hold off until the artillery redline them before wasting more units.

1635 AD (1): Bomb and raze Moscow at size 14. Lost a couple tanks but killed 5 MI and 1 infantry. Change a couple cities to settler to fill in some gaps later on.

1640 AD (2): Bring more units to the front. Separate into 2 groups to begin seige on Konigsburg and Keiv. Japan has completed 2 parts and has 1 more in the works. Japan still will not give up Ecology.

1645 AD (3): WW brings massive rioting pushing lux to 30%. Will make peace soon. Continue to pound Konigs and Keiv. No new deals and no luck on a spy in Germany or Iroquios either. Decide not to try again for a steal of Ecology now either. Plan on taking a couple German cities then moving on Korea.

1650 AD (4): More bombing and manage to take out the radar tower near Konigsberg but not Keiv, yet. Looking to take Keiv and Konigsberg then focus attention on Korea and or Zulu. Germany will give up 4 throw away cities for peace right now.

1655 AD (5): Capture Konigsburg and Keiv. Found 2 new cities on some German ruins, reinforce with MI. Move SoD towards Leipzig. Finally get my spy in Germany. Here are the vitals: 54 Mechs, 8 infantry, 6 marines 12 cavs, and 11 Panzers :D.

And the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_1655ad.zip

I think a few more German cities should fall easily with our artillery and tanks. MI are tough but I found that if you have enough artillery and redline them they will eventually fall, even at the cost of a couple tanks.

I was contemplating moving on Zulu's but they will fall easily when we aren't as concerned with the Germans. Korean's ROP makes getting units to the front a piece of cake so as long as we have war with Germany we should keep it.

We now control Sufferage: I didn't note that above but that should help us with happiness. Lux are 30% now but may be changed now that sufferage is under our control. May focus in the last few turns was tanks. We could do with a few more bombers as well moving artillery works but getting a longer range attack of the bombers worked pretty well.

Also, we may want a few more settlers. Those German cities are large and even taking a city at size 6 you will have 6 resistors requiring a lot of units to hold those cities under control.

Just what I needed - more grueling modern age warfare :lol:

How are going to win this one ? Invade Japan for domination or knock over Germany and just assemble a coalition against Japan to win the UN vote ?

It is up for grabs. space, domination. I think if we take the continent we will not have to take to many Japan mainland cities for domination. Space will probably come sooner

Taking 3 cities in 5 turns is a lot. :) Also, grabbing Universal suffrage is a big thing. I still vote for space and also don't like to see us hit the Koreans first, unless we can get a railroad past their territory for our troops.

I have started the airport in Cologne but none in our core. We can move troops that way very easily. I agree that space is the best bet. I didn't try for another steal because it failed just 5 turns earlier and I don't know if we can handle going to war with Japan. He is polite and may not declare but who knows. Our spy survived unnoticed but still cost us 4k in gold. There are 10 turns remaining on ecology and Japan has only completed 2 parts with 1 more on the way.

I think I'm up now, right ?

Originally posted by jack merchant
I think I'm up now, right ?

I think so too.

EDIT: I'll be after that. Are we allowed to choose between playing 5 or 10 turns?

If we're going for space, we might as well make peace now. Germany is not a threat anymore but the 30% luxes we are running to keep WW in check is. We can for either space or domination, not both.

Originally posted by jack merchant
If we're going for space, we might as well make peace now. Germany is not a threat anymore but the 30% luxes we are running to keep WW in check is. We can for either space or domination, not both.

I agree with making peace and going for space race. That will also shorten our turns, since using artillery is the biggest time consumer :)

Inherited turn: Japan has Ecology. I want that, so I have our spies take it :D I'd like to make peace with the Germans, but we still have six turns of MPP with the Japanese so it would be pointless to make peace now. And since we can't have peace before the Japs do, I decide I might just as well mobilize for war.

IT Japan signs the Koreans to war against Germany. Japan also completes the SS Engine. We lose 2 tanks to German cavalry and panzer counterattack, the Germans lose a panzer.

1660 AD (1) A tank and an MI fail to take out the German Panzer Army in the jungle. Another tank dies to a guerilla in the open, and a third one dies to a 1hp MI. I don't like my combat luck. I concentrate our artillery near Leipzig to take it next turn. I also rush some settlers to replace German cities.

Workers are ordered to mine over irrigation in cities that have run out of useable tiles.

1665 AD (2) Leipzig doesn't fall - it's too well defended. I'm discovering that bombardment isn't all that effective against MI.

1670 AD (3) We capture size 1 Leipzig and with it, Smith's Trading Co ! This saves us 100 gpt in upkeep, so it's worth trying to hold on to.

I decide to raise the science rate to 50 %, which will give us Synthetic Fibers in 16 (by bulding up beakers now, we can get it faster when the war is over and we can ditch the luxury tax). We are now running a 163gpt deficit, but with 17,200 gold still in the treasury, we're not going to experience a fiscal crisis anytime soon.

IT Korea and Japan sign an MPP

1675 AD (4) 56 Artillery pieces and 15 tanks move into range of Berlin, which has the Hoover Dam. We pillage the German rubber supply and immediately see effect - the Germans are now producing marines.

IT A wave of pollution hits.

1680 AD (5) The Japanese show up with synthetic fibers. I try to steal but it fails. The spy does get away without being caught though. I then try again and this time we succeed - we'll have 28 MAs ready to go next turn. 3 cities start further SS parts (I'm glad you can still build those under mobilization).
Bombardment reduces Berlin from size 14 to size 4 and destroys a good deal of infrastructure, but singularly fails to dent the MIs defending. After two abortive tank attacks on the city, I decide to wait until next turn when the MAs are ready to roll.
We finally capture Ngome in the jungle and loot 888 gold.

IT The Germans counterattack near Berlin with MIs, killing 3 tanks but losing 2. The Japanese build the Manhattan Project and add SS Storage/Supply to their ship. They still lack Satellites though. The Germans use propaganda on Konigsberg.

1685 (6) Artillery strikes reduce Berlin to size 1 and no infrastructure. But even without radar towers and civil defense bonuses, the city still manages to eat 5 Modern Armours before falling. However, we are now the proud owners of Shakespeare's, Newton's, Leo's and the Hoover Dam [party]

The pattern of determined resistance continues as 2 Mech Infs in the size-1 hamlet of Heidelberg kill 4 MAs before dying, again without an RT bonus. We raze the city in retaliation. 2 more MAs and a tank die but Frankfurt is ours as well - it befalls the same fate as Heidelberg (I'm feeling nasty today :D ).

We can now make peace with the Germans as all important objectives have been achieved and the MPP with the Japs has expired. On approaching the Germans for a deal, I'm shocked and delighted to find that they have somehow managed to invent the Superconductor [dance] ! They won't give it up for peace, of course, but then with spies of our caliber, they don't have to :D A quick stop at the spy shop is enough to get us 2 more SS parts in production. We get the Germans to give us 2600 gold for our troubles.

We can now turn off the lux rate, but our best non-deficit research rate only gives us Nuclear Pwer in 14 turns. What I am going to do instead is build up more research infrastructure and run no science unti nuclear power shows up. At that point, steal nuclear power and turn up research to 100% on the Laser and get a prebuild in place. At 100% tax, we have an income of 1400 gpt.

With Hoover in our hands, I sell off the coal plants to reduce the incidence of pollution. I'm tempted to start mass transits too but I think building Modern Armour and ICBMs will better secure our future :satan:

IT Our spy in Seoul has been captured ! This is too much - Korea must die. Not right away though - our MA stock needs some replenishing first. Also, they have an MPP with Japan, who have literally boatloads full of bombers near our new German holdings.

1690 AD (7) We add yet another part to the ship. I consider selling the Japs furs but our reputation is somehow so shot that they won't even give gpt for it.

1700 AD (8) :sleep:

1705 AD (9) I decide to buy Japanese dyes for furs + 20 gpt.

1710 AD (10 :sleep:

Aggie, should you need troops for any reason, our troops are now organized as follows:
Modern Armour : Coventry, Berlin
Artillery : Denizli
Mech Infantry: Leipzig, Konigsberg, Cologne
Bombers: Bolu
Jet fighters: We might need a few of these.

The Koreans have an MPP with the Japanese, who we're buying 2 luxes from. The Zulu and the Iro's are fair game if you feel like kicking some butt :D It might actually be a good idea to go to war against one of these to grab a leader - I suspect one reason why our research time is still so awful is the poor placement of the palace (We can research Nuclear power at max science in 7 turns but with a 610 gpt deficit).

We have completed 9 parts out of 10 and only need the Laser now. The Japs have completed 5 with 1 in production, and lack Superconductor and satellites. You may consider gifting those to Japan so they can research Nuclear Power for us ( I didn't do so before as our treasury needed to be built back up for further stealing attempts).

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/HOT3-1710AD.zip)

I got it. I probably will play tonight.

Solid turn, but I didn't expect anything else :p

I indeed want that palace to be moved, so I go for some leader fishing (Zulu or Iroquois). I'm tempted to get MA's with others to do that (no backstabbing).

Originally posted by jack merchant
The Japanese show up with synthetic fibers. I try to steal but it fails. The spy does get away without being caught though. I then try again and this time we succeed

Hmmmm....I know we don't have any rules in this SG, but in a lot of others this could be called an exploit!

Why ? I didn't reload. I merely had one try fail (at 4,600 gold) and then invested another 4,600 gold to try again. So we got SF at a total price of 9,200 gold. I don't see any exploit in there.

You could get an MPP with the Japs again and provoke the Koreans into attacking us (however, we still have a rop with the Koreans).

Not in case you attempt to steal, but to get them to declare war.

EDIT: that is the reason that it is generally not allowed. In this case I'm happy you did! This gets us closer to our goals: winning the game.

I didn't want them to declare war, I wanted to get my filthy little hands on Synthetic Fibers :D If I wanted them to go to war, I'd have chosen a less expensive method !

If the intent was to get them to declare war, then trying to steal over and over MIGHT be an exploit.

If you don't want a war, but you just want to steal techs, then I don't see the problem; the game allows you to do it. If they considered that you shouldn't be able to do it, they'd have taken the option off the table.

-Sirp.

I knew that I was too slow to edit my previous post :) I like stealing: we have a lot of money, we should put it to good use. As long as we are strong enough to hold of any attacking power, we should steal :cool:

We are most definitely strong enough to steal - the only thing is we need NP & the Laser instantly, the moment they show up. Only Japan appears to be capable of researching anything anytime soon now.

One idea I had was to steal with the diplomat next time so we keep our spy in case he fails. That should give us 2 shots at stealing the next tech.
On the other hand, the diplomat's chances of succeeding are, iirc, lower so that might not be the best use of our money and we are limited now as to how often we can steal. Maybe we can raise some money later on from the Koreans and the Germans to fund another steal attempt.

Anyway, this game will be finished by Borealis or me. 7 turns for nuclear power and around the same amount for laser is needed to get that last part built. :)

I think it's a great idea to have Japan research for us. We will surely be able to beat them with our pre-build.

Our reputation is probably shot because we razed all those German cities. Japan liked that when we had a common enemy, but may now be furious about that since we made peace.

That's their attitude, not our reputation. Our reputation was destroyed far earlier - in fact, gpt deals were already out during my previous turn, i.e. probably before we went to war against Germany. I have no idea how it happened. Maybe a road got pillaged somewhere ?

It's quite possible to do gpt deals with a furious AI civ as long as your reputation is intact.

We'll have to steal the last techs as there's no way we're going to be able to buy them with a lump-sum payment - Modern Age techs are that expensive.

Originally posted by jack merchant
That's their attitude, not our reputation. Our reputation was destroyed far earlier - in fact, gpt deals were already out during my previous turn, i.e. probably before we went to war against Germany. I have no idea how it happened. Maybe a road got pillaged somewhere ?

It's quite possilbe to do gpt deals with a furious AI civ as long as your reputation is intact.

I also don't know, that's why I'm guessing... I didn't attempt gpt deals in my turn and also didn't read anything about it in earlier reports (could be my fault), so I assumed it was something new. And since I didn't read anything about ROP rape or cancelling gpt deals I suggested that razing cities was the cause.

Indeed I'm very aware that attitude and reputation and two different things. I didn't find good articles on reputation at CFC. Attitude is excellently explained by Bamspeedy however.

Solid turn Jack. As far as stealing if war was your justification they it is in the realm of exploit but clearly you wanted the tech. Getting into a war was not the intent. NO FOUL

My only suggestion is to take out the Zulu leader fishing. MA will roll right through - don't bother with a dogpile.

Hotrod

I'll probably decide not to research myself. When I'm correct it will cost us 2000 gpt to research at max, compared to doing no research at all. 7x2000 = 14.000 gold, meaning three to four safe steal attempts

Turn 0 (1710 AD)

I decide to attack Zululand immediately.

War vs Zululand:

Ibabanago is the first target. Easily reached by our artillery, so obviously a good start.
- The radar tower is destroyed with a few artillery and a MA.
- Without any losses we are able to raze Ibabanago for a puny 16 gold.

IT: no counterattack from the Zulu, as expected

Turn 1 (1715 AD)

Economy/Science:
Maybe it's not a good idea to let others research. I decide to research myself. But first I'm going to sell a few non-vital techs:
- Germany gets Ecology for 8220 gold and world map.
- Korea gets Ecology for 3226 gold and world map

We now have 23972 gold and 1361 gpt with 0% science. With science to 100% we lose 609 gpt and get Nuclear Power in 7 turns.

War vs Zululand:
- 4 MA's are too much for to infantry in Isandhlwana. It is razed.
- Troops move to Intombe.

IT: again no Zulu counterattack

Turn 2 (1720 AD)

War vs Zululand:
- Intombe falls, again without losses.
- Troops move to Ulundi

IT: Bismarck attempted to steal a technology and was caught!! That will have made him bankrupt!

Turn 3 (1725 AD)

War vs Zululand:
- Ulundi razed. No losses, no leader.
- Next target: Zimbabwe.

IT: Zululand joins Japan vs the Iroquois

Turn 4 (1730 AD)

I believe we didn't have one of these yet:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3ICBM.jpg

War vs Zululand:
- We lose 3 MA's, but finally manage to raze Zimbabwe. I forgot to target the radar tower first. Riza founded on the ruins.
- Hlobana falls: no losses, again no leaders. I decide to keep the city, since all cultural pressure is gone there.
- Tugela falls: same story.
- Zululand has one town left.

IT: The Iroquois and Korea signed peace. Japan builds another part of their Space Ship.

Turn 5 (1735 AD)

I decide to not hold a UN vote.
We raze Mpondo and the Zulu are gone. What to do now? No leader still.... The Iroquois are far away...

IT: It does not make sense to go after the Iroquois. Japan and Korea do a nice job killing them

Turn 6 (1740 AD)

Science can go to 90%, NP in 2. I'm going to wait until Korea and Japan decide to cancel the MPP.

Turn 7 (1745 AD)

Quiet

IT: Japan and Germany made peace. And Japan re-declares war to Germany :confused: Japan adds another part to their Spaceship.

Turn 8 (1750 AD)

We discovered a tech, that's a first: :hammer:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3discovery.jpg

Next up: the Laser (another 7 turns)
A lot of cities are switched to nuclear plants (more shield production).

Turn 9 (1752 AD)

Hehe, once they had 30000 gold in cash:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/hot3poorgermany.jpg


IT: KOREA NUKES MUNICH :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3munichnuked.jpg

Turn 10 (1754 AD)

I order a couple of SAM missile batteries. You never know what they are good for.

Within 5 turns we will have the Laser.
Nothing much to say anymore expect for:
- We have a lot of workers parked just west of St. Louis
- Military is mainly trooped in Houston, Denizli and Bolu - if you should need it.

1754 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/HOT3-1754AD.zip)

[dance] :band:

Looks like we Made it !!! :goodjob: A deity win with the rough start we had is great. We can all be proud that a group of "non-deity" players overcame the tough beginning to win via space of all things.

Hotrod

Let's not go to war against Korea now, shall we :lol:

And yet again, getting the glory of the final turn eludes you ! For that I am probably to blame though - I should have thought of selling techs to the Germans to clean out their cash and fund the deficit research. That might have got you NP in your fourth turn and maybe the Laser and victory in your last. Sorry :blush:

Originally posted by jack merchant
Sorry :blush:

No problem Jack. I had a lot of fun in these 10 turns ;) Actually, I was thinking of going to war at turn 9, but then realised it wasn't going to do any good.

Got it; it's third in line, I think, but I should be able to get to it tonight after the others.

Shouldn't take long Borealis ;)

- As I simultaneously un-lurk and de-virginize myself, allow me to say Congrats to you guys. Great gameand I am really looking forward to the coup de grace. I have only recently discovered the joys of Civ3, after abandoning Civ2 about 3-4 years ago, and your game has been SO helpful in helping me develop my gaming here at home. Hopefully soon I will get the gumption to take the plunge into a "clueless newbie" Succession game myself. My hat is off to you all!

- GuitarScho

@GuitarScho: Thanks for your kind words and welcome. Dive right in ;).

It was really touch and go from the start with a few hiccups along the way but overall an enjoyable game and after Borealis' turn my first deity win.

Osman stood on the steps of his palace, studying the Ottoman nation, and found it to be good. Once forced to be humble and meek, begging for scraps left at the table of the mighty, now the world feared the might of the Ottoman Army. However, today his gaze rested not on the barracks that housed the implements of war, but the engine of peace... the SETI program's transmitter, guiding the great research effort on a new technology that would allow his people to enjoy their voyage into the unkown. After years of hardship, only the best would do for the planned Planetary Party Lounge.

While Osman watched the sunset in contented silence, the elected Prime Minister, Borealis, took the reins of power from her predecessor, determined to ensure that nothing disturbed the monarch's peace. A quick check of the nation's cities revealed that the previous office holder had left the nation in excellent shape. The foreign advisor, while assuring Borealis of the peaceful relationships between the Ottomans and the world, advised caution when dealing with the Japanese, who were jealous of the superior facilities on the OSS Osman.

While the Germans battle the world for lebensraum, in Iznik scientists strive to convert the medical discoveries made on the battlefield to more peaceful uses, such as curing space sickness. If the Ottoman people are to survive, they must escape this planet soon before an ICBM aimed at Salamanca, for example, misses and strikes our lands.

In 1764 AD, our scientists announce that they have perfected the prototype of The Laser, and are ready to start production on the Planetary Party Lounge. The doctors in Iznik insist on a new research grant, and Osman prepares to enter the ship, leaving Earth forever.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_TheLaser.JPG

1766 AD marks a new Era for the Ottoman people as they leave Earth and its dangerous radiation for good!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_PPL.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_Victory.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_Demog.JPG

Wow, but we came a long way! :eek: :mutant: :cool:

Can you post the last save Borealis I would like to have my first deity win :D.

And the HoF entry for posterity...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_Hof.JPG

:goodjob: [dance] [party] :band: [party] [dance] :goodjob:

We've :grad: to Deity on an SG level! Some of us still have to beat it on our own, but this is a wonderful start!

Enjoy. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_Victory.zip)

Edit: Just did... I put too many images in my first post, and the CFC server didn't like me and made me wait 30 seconds.
This also didn't make it, but it's instructive to see how fast we climbed:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hot3_histo.JPG

[dance] [party] :bday: :beer:

Can you tell I'm happy ? :D

:tank: :hammer:

It's shocking to see the Germans self-destruct so utterly and completely. They could have had Alpha Centauri, but settled for trying to take over the world instead. And from the ashes of a wartorn world, we rose up (famous quote: The German mind has the tendency to make no mistakes but the very greatest :) ).
After watching the replay, did anyone notice the ungodly amount of GL's the Germans got ? They had so many I lost count, I think 15-20 GL's or so.

good game guys! now maybe you can focus on Hot4 ;)

:) :D :lol: [dance]

Guess this qualifies as a deity win hotrod. That solo win can't be far away. Thank you all for the great game. I will miss it.

:goodjob: Congrats to a very good Game and the Victory :goodjob:


Rowain

Whoa! Great game guys! You looked like you were in BIG trouble at one stage, but you stuck with it, and managed to pull it out. :goodjob:

Glorious, just glorious!

-Sirp.