Attached is our starting position. We started with Alphabet and Bronze Working.

Sigh...
This spot is worse than the last one, which probably is why we got one more tech.
Well, I've been checking that special-map again, and this time we can't be sure about any good spot yet:( , but hopefully we'll get a better idea after some exploration.

Sorry... but, people wanted a more difficult game anyway, right? ;)

I'll copy over some of the posts that still apply from the other thread to this one......

Originally posted by Jayne
Greetings loyal subject!!! :queen::lol:

I plan to play on Saturday (or Friday if we are ready) and I will play 5 turns.

I need my advisors to gather the following information and post here by Friday evening:

Shall we pop the hut before settling?
Shall we build the capital where we are or explore?
Where shall we move the settlers? Where do we explore first?
If we build a capital, what do we build?
What tax rate?
What research?
Do we keep the second settler to improve unsupported, or build another town?

I think we should pop the hut and hopefully get a NONE unit to explore with. I think we should go one square east before settling - we'd still have the fish, but not the swamp. Maybe the settler not hut-popping should build a road where it stands then go east to settle when the hut is popped.

Originally posted by funxus
I found a special/hut-pattern map

Here's an idea: One Settler go NE to pop the Hut ASAP, hopefully we'll get a None Horse. Other Settler either S to Road the Green Shield, or Road the Buffalo (but that explores nothing), or S then E to walk both Greens... then stop and we reconsider our options...

Let's build two cities. One will be a capital, while the other one will be a settler factory.

Nope, we should keep one of those settlers, since it'll be a NONE and won't require support.

I agree, we should keep the second settler to pop that hut and build improvements. As for the first settler, maybe he should move SW, S, or S and find a better city site. But, we should settle after say three turns.

IMO we should found two cities ASAP using both settlers and then immediately send a warrior or two exploring. Time is very critical at the start so doubling the number of cities (two instead of onw) makes a big difference.

Also I think we should found our first city (the capital) now using one settler, the other one should go and pop the hut and then found a city as soon as it finds a nice spot.

Any preferences when it comes to the spacing between cities and overlapping or nonoverlapping city squares ?

I agree with theViking, we should definetely found two cities immediately. By founding one instead of two we'd have 4 cities instead of 8, 8 instead of 16, roughly, and a NON-settler isn't worth that IMO.
Also, except for one or two roaded squares, improvement of a city doesn't matter that much before monarchy anyway.
I think we should build settlers in both cities, but after we've founded a couple more, i.e. after 1 or 2 settelers, the best city should start a wonder. :)

With regards to defence, I don't think we should leave towns undefended for too long. Don't forget we are playing with raging hordes of barbs. We were lucky last time (and even then we lost a city to them).

As I see it there are two basic options: We play two turns and stop to consider our options, or we let Jayne play the five turns she would like to do and we trust to her judgement on the final three turns.

I say this because: It will take two turns to pop the hut, and two turns to explore the two greens (both good choices of action IMHO). At that point we will have much more info about the terrain (and what we get from the hut) that will largely inform our decision on what and where to found cities. Even now I'm not sure of the implications of founding immediately on the buffalo. Were this my game I would very likely at least explore the unsheilded grass E and found there (to gain an extra shield) if it looked promising. Trouble is, we won't know if it looks promising until Jayne has actually moved. So unless we found right where we are, we may need to provide some general guidelines, but not specifics to Jayne, or else have her only play two or three turns.

If her schedule allows, I would think she could play two turns, pop the hut, post the updated screenshot then allow a couple days for discussion and then play again.

I would suggest against building a city on the buffalo right now because it isn't that great of a city spot and will result in a supported unit (if we get one from the hut).

I would suggest having one settler go for the hut, the other one moving South to explore a bit more terrain, then look at tyring to pick a decent spot to build our city and get a road started on a good square within the cities radius.

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Here's an idea: One Settler go NE to pop the Hut ASAP, hopefully we'll get a None Horse. Other Settler either S to Road the Green Shield, or Road the Buffalo (but that explores nothing), or S then E to walk both Greens... then stop and we reconsider our options...

My idea exactly.. i think roading the shielded grassland and settling on the unshielded would be best, mainly since looking at the specials pattern, we won't uncover any more specials for sure by taking the above moves

Go S then SE and hope we get another speacial or get away from the desert square.
Move with it and maybe make improvements or settle somewhere else.

The hut will stay there for a while so we can build a horseman or warrior to nab it later and explore.

One Settler go NE to pop the Hut ASAP : the NONE unit go then E or SE (it depend what is revealed) ; if it's gold or science, go for settling eastern....
Other Settler go S then SE to explore. Then stop and we reconsider our options...

From what has been posted so far, here's a rough plan. One settler pops the hut. If it's a unit, I'll move it to reveal more terrain.

The second unit: I can either road the buffalo with the intention that it will be in the radius of our capital, then move it south, or:
I can move it south and east to reveal more terrain.

Please comment. I don't mind only making a couple of moves at a time until we've got our capital. I could move again on Monday.

Originally posted by Jayne
From what has been posted so far, here's a rough plan. One settler pops the hut. If it's a unit, I'll move it to reveal more terrain.

The second unit: I can either road the buffalo with the intention that it will be in the radius of our capital, then move it south, or:
I can move it south and east to reveal more terrain.


how long would it take to road the buffalo ?
by now, it's maybe more usefull to reveal terrain than improve land.

2 turns? I was thinking that it will give us extra trade as soon as we settle.

IIRC roads do not give us extra trade in despotism (we need monarchy) and since time is valuable one settler should IMO found a city immedately or move south. Then found a city there or move east, depending on what is revealed. If it moves east it should found a city there unless adjacent squares are bad since by then the hut will have been popped.

Making two moves now and then deciding what to do makes some sense to me. A 'demogame newbie' question: Would a poll asking what to do with one of the settlers be appropriate or are polls reserved for bigger issues ? (hmm... in a way this is a big issue...)

Roads give +1 trade on plains or grassland all the time.

Regarding the settlers, I think one of them should be sent to pop the hut and the other should move south-easternish. We should found cities with both of them as soon as we find decent city spots.

Originally posted by Jayne
2 turns? I was thinking that it will give us extra trade as soon as we settle.

I agree with you what it's not losing-time, we'll have to did it anyway, because this bison should be in one of our cities raduis.

but we need to know a little bit about our vicinities...

Polls are a good idea, but we maybe running out of time as I move tomorrow. Maybe either the Foreign and Domestic advisors could get a poll going, as it covers both their areas. Road or explore? And which direction to explore?

One Settler pops the hut. If None unit, move it too to explore further. Other Settler, S to explore the Green Shield, then Road there. The Buffalo is nice, but we need more information imho.

Yeah, we need to find how the special/hut pattern lines up to us. It will greatly assist in planning future city spots.

I propose to fund the city in the Buffalo with the first settler. With the second, movew NE, discover the hut and then, with the settler, go SE down the lake and look if there is a nice place to fund another city connected to the lake. But I don´t know if both cities woulc use same resources. If this happen, move down through the grass. I propose both cities connected to the lake because it can be interesting for the future building boats.

I don't think we should build on the Buffalo, just because we know then the city will have no chance of getting 4 specials and can esily mess up any planned layout to try and grab more speicals.

Originally posted by Zelig
Roads give +1 trade on plains or grassland all the time.


Oops ! I was writing from memory while at work :blush: when I said roads didn't increase trade in despotism - I was confusing it with irrigation.

Despite this I still think the second settlers would be more valuable as a city.

Originally posted by TheViking
Despite this I still think the second settlers would be more valuable as a city.

I still agree on this. :)

I say move one settler to pop the hut whilst the other settler waits for one turn before founding a city on the buffalo. The early extra production produced by the buffalo will be most useful as the city can be used to quickly produce settlers. Hopefully the hut will produce a military unit (which is a high probability), that can be used to explore. Then the spare settler can continue along the coast line looking for a new city site. I don't like the idea of wasting time looking for a perfect city site. The site we have been given is not as bad as some people say. We could of got a lot worse. The city, if founded on the buffalo, will have an early production boost and access to the sea. The earlier we found a city the better, for science, for exploration, for settler production. None settlers are not as important as having two cities, extra nomads can always be obtained from huts even then 1 food or 2 rarely makes a dent in a cities growth if managed properly. Besides that it is not worth improving the city area although maybe the grassland could be roaded. Apart from that the settler will best serve us as an explorer and as a settler! Let him build another city. Well thats just how I see it.

One more thing what does IIRC mean?

IIRC= If I recall correctly

OK, I'll play the first couple of turns in a minute - just as soon as I've finished my melted Camenbert and redcurrant sauce on toast!! :D

Any hint as to what your plan is Jayne?

Next Turn Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47618)