Alright, fresh off a victory from CG5, here's my latest.

Map: Usual. Large, Continents, 70%, everything regular. Made in-game.

Rivals: Again, usual. :p

Version: 1.14f. Sorry, it has to be 1.14 for you Europeans out there. However, this may be changed if it alienates too many players. :)

Civ: Up for debate.

Level: Emperor.

Victory: Domination but all are on.

Variant Rules: Here is where the fun begins!
- Anytime we want to declare war on another civilization, we must have at least half of the other known civilizaitions to join us in the war. So, for example, if we want to declare war on say Japan, and we know 8 other civs, we must have 4 join in a coalition with us. And for all you nitpickers, if we know an odd number, round up. :p All of this only applies when we are in a "free" government and it is post-ancient age.
- If another civ declares war on US, we must try as hard as we can to get at least half of the other known civs to join with us in a coalition. Obviously there may be times when we have to go it alone, but we must try. All of this applies when we are in a "free" government and it is post-ancient age.
- When I say "try as hard as we can" that means give them whatever they want to get them to sign an MA.
- We must have at least one coalition war in each age, not including ancient age. However, we can fight more then one war per age. If we fight more then one war per age, each war after the first must also be a coalition war. So, if we fight 2 wars in the Middle Age, they will BOTH be coalition wars. And if we fight 1 war in the Ancient age as a Despotism, it can be a unilateral war. And if we fight a war in the Industrial Age, it must be a coalition. Understand? :)
- We must always honorably declare war, ALWAYS.
- We must keep all peace treaties (so 20 turns between war).
- We must always stay in "free" governments. So our chain must be Despotism -> Republic -> Democracy.
- We must switch to free governments as soon as we get the tech, and no stalling, please. So, yes, that means war in Democracy! :lol:

Roster: Me
Jack Merchant
Aggie
T-Hawk ?
Arutha ?

Hope this isn't too harsh. I originally wanted a game where we play a sort of UN, but I realized that's all but impossible to do with AIs. So I settled for this coalition-type game. And, yes, it was influenced by current events. :p

I'll have the save up when we decide on a civ.

Sign me up if you'll have me :)

Did you notice we were running 50% luxes at the end of CG5 ?

I'm ok with any civ, as long as it isn't the Ottomans. How about America for added flavour ? :p

Originally posted by jack merchant

Did you notice we were running 50% luxes at the end of CG5 ?


Oh yes. In Democracy we'll be running 80%! :ack: Still, its domination, so it should not be as bad. And of course I'll have you.

So... what happens if you get a good land-grab, or start on a landmass alone, and never decide you need to go to war? So much for the variant :) Perhaps this: you must declare war coalition-style at least once per age (that is, before acquiring the last required tech in each of the first three ages.)

Yeah I must admit, whenever I read of variant rules like this, I think that they must be written by players who rely on war as their main method of play. The only time you really really have to go to war is if you're playing on Deity and you're really cramped, and even then only sometimes. (or maybe if you otherwise get a truly bad start and have to get good land off others).

-Sirp.

Actually, I missed where it said that the players will be going for Domination, which does require war if you're above Chieftain :) Although you could just sit still until you built a thousand modern armors...

Oh uhh....yeah that is true T-Hawk, although it doesn't require war imminently, as you say. Ironically, it's rather easy for a "Builder's Game" to have domination and/or conquest as its victory goals.

-Sirp.

I'm in! Sirp and T-Hawk are correct, but that's just what I like about this game. We have to play our cards right. Last game got ugly at the end. We could postpone real war for a long time in this variant as well.

EDIT: Would be nice to play non-industrious for a change. Also religious seems to add an advantage: no anarchy towards democracy.

EDIT2: What if we have half of the world behind us with a MA and one of them decides to make peace. Must we get another MA at that point? If so, this would mean that that war will never end as soon as one civ makes peace. Here's an example:

We get 4 civs to have a MA against Persia. One makes peace after 10 turns. Now we have to get another to join. Ten turns later our MA with the other 3 civs end. We only have one MA left, not enough. Therefore we have to get 3 MA's again... endless cycle, until the victim is dead.

My advise: we need the amount of MA's at the start of the war. If you don't allow that CG, it's actually means: the whole world in a MA against a certain civ to prevent getting under 50%...

How about destroying those who dare break our deals with them ? That could make for one tangled web of alliances if we apply the coalition rule there, too.

Aggie has a point about choosing a non-industrious civ. That should certainly improve our playing skills. Taking that into account, I would be partial to the Arabs or the Spanish.

I like T-Hawk's idea:

you must declare war coalition-style at least once per age (that is, before acquiring the last required tech in each of the first three ages

However, this would perhaps be easier on a pangaea (where you don't have to go after a direct neighbour). Also, if we apply this, we could use a militaristic civ - maybe the Aztecs for an early infrastructure-building GA? The Celtic UU is too expensive to build on Emperor.

A coalition war in the ancient age :eek: That sounds too heavy. The AI will be racing through that age, with us far behind, me thinks. What about coalition must be formed once per age, expect the ancient age?

Originally posted by Aggie
EDIT2: What if we have half of the world behind us with a MA and one of them decides to make peace. Must we get another MA at that point? If so, this would mean that that war will never end as soon as one civ makes peace. Here's an example:


I think at that point, we should try to get them in, but if we can't, its OK. As long as we have half the world to start the war.

@ T-Hawk: I like your idea, but are you saying we don't have to have more then 1 coalition per age? So, if we have, say, 3 wars in the Industrial age, only one needs to be a coalition? Because I don't really like that idea, to be honest...

How about minimum one coalition per age except for the Ancient age, but in Middle-Modern every war must be a coalition? So, if we have, say, 1 war in middle, 2 in industrial, and 3 in modern, each of them must be a coalition? Does that sound good?

How about changing the requirement to coalition warfare as soon as we're a republic ? Evil and bloodthirsty despots don't build coalitions. Also, in despotism buying alliances may eat up most of our spare gpt, thus setting us behind on tech.
This means the first war which will be prosecuted ancient age-style, but I don't see a problem with that. Look at RBP6 - they went to war with chariots there :eek: Of course we may not yet be of their level, but we are a playing a lower difficulty.
T-hawk suggested at least one coalition per age. I think we can manage that if we have one war after republic and then another one for the medieval age proper. If we are remotely succesful, chances are we won't even reach the modern age if we go for domination. In CG5, all we would have needed to do to get domination was settle Spain, switch to China a little faster and build bunches of libraries.

Originally posted by jack merchant
How about changing the requirement to coalition warfare as soon as we're a republic ? Evil and bloodthirsty despots don't build coalitions. Also, in despotism buying alliances may eat up most of our spare gpt, thus setting us behind on tech.
This means the first war which will be prosecuted ancient age-style, but I don't see a problem with that. Look at RBP6 - they went to war with chariots there :eek: Of course we may not yet be of their level, but we are a playing a lower difficulty.
T-hawk suggested at least one coalition per age. I think we can manage that if we have one war after republic and then another one for the medieval age proper. If we are remotely succesful, chances are we won't even reach the modern age if we go for domination. In CG5, all we would have needed to do to get domination was settle Spain, switch to China a little faster and build bunches of libraries.

Good point. So here are the new rules:

- We must build a coalition with all the coalition rules as soon as we switch to a free government. We must switch to a free government ASAP. We must have at least one coalition war in each Age (not including Ancient), but each war in each Age (not including Ancient) must be a coalition war.

Does everyone agree on these? Now we just need to decide on a civ...

EDIT: Aggie, T-Hawk, Sirp, you guys want in? :)

- government: Republic is a "free" government, and much better then Democracy if you're planning on warring. So, unless the variant clearly states that democracy *must* be researched ASAP and revolted to, what would be the point of using it?

- coalition: are MA the only acceptable forms of alliances, or could MPPs used to the same effect ? (I usually much prefer alliance thru a triggered MPP than a pro forma MA, but that's just me ;) ).

Originally posted by cgannon64


Good point. So here are the new rules:

- We must build a coalition with all the coalition rules as soon as we switch to a free government. We must switch to a free government ASAP. We must have at least one coalition war in each Age (not including Ancient), but each war in each Age (not including Ancient) must be a coalition war.

Does everyone agree on these? Now we just need to decide on a civ...

EDIT: Aggie, T-Hawk, Sirp, you guys want in? :)

I agree and I'm in!!

Arutha, I think the idea is to make war in a democracy. Now obviously that is a horrible government to make war in, but that's the point of the variant. I have no particular preference for MPPs or MAs, except I think MAs tend to be cheaper. Also, the disadvantage of MPPs is that you lose control over who you go to war with and may end up breaking trade deals.
May we tempt you, or do you confine yourself to deity level ?

Originally posted by Arutha
- government: Republic is a "free" government, and much better then Democracy if you're planning on warring. So, unless the variant clearly states that democracy *must* be researched ASAP and revolted to, what would be the point of using it?

Yep, must be researched ASAP and switched to ASAP. I know, it will suck, but its a challenge. :)


- coalition: are MA the only acceptable forms of alliances, or could MPPs used to the same effect ? (I usually much prefer alliance thru a triggered MPP than a pro forma MA, but that's just me ;) ).

We could use MPPs, but I don't reccomend it, as it will drag us into other wars...:p

I'm a definite maybe as for joining in. :crazyeye: I am interested, but am trying to work out some computer issues. I'm often away from my only computer that can play Civ 3 for 2-5 days at a time; been trying to get another one set up (stupid CD drive on this one machine won't read my PTW disc) or a laptop that can play it. If you want to work with/around that, I'll be in. Patching back to 1.14 to play this isn't a problem.

As for which civ: we could either pick one for the theme, pick one suited for this game, or pick one UNsuited for the game for challenge. The first would be America or England. The second would be any of the religious/militaristics; quick swaps, temple-rushing, and militaristic is obvious. The third could be England, France, Russia, Carthage, and so on...

I like the idea of picking a civ unsuited for the game; the English would do particularly well as historically, they have been instrumental in forming coalitions to prevent one country from dominating continental Europe. They did so against the Habsburgs, Louis XIV, Napoleon, the German Empire and in WW2. Call them the quintessential coalition-civ :) They have my vote.

I'd have to agree with the bad civ suited for the theme. America or England definetely come to mind. (Or not America...:p)

England sounds nice, anyone else agree?

England is a crappy civ. I like it!

Thanks for the invitation to play, but I'm already in two succession games, with a commitment to a third upcoming one (GM2), so I'll have to give it a miss. But I will be watching with interest.

-Sirp.

OK, now that we all agree on a civ, I'll make the save tonight. Might be able to play, might not, we'll have to see. :)

Sorry guys I can't make the save tonight, and probably not until tomorrow afternoon/night. My great-great aunt died, so the wake was today, the funeral tomorrow. All out in NJ, so its 2 hours round trip. :(

EDIT: Definetely tomorrow, I have a half-day. :D

Edited because of irrelavency and to make the tread a little shorter. :)

I just took a look at the save and think a restart might be in order. I want to be playing CG6-Coalition time, not CG6-Wait till the AI discovers Navigation time. The game concept has become pretty pointless with this particular start and might be better off with a pangaea.

I'll wait with playing until others have given their opinion.

Yes, it seems to be:

1. change the concept of the game or
2. do a restart or
3. a very difficult game

I choose 2

I'd agree on the restart; this game needs a pangaea for the concept to work. Not only will it be wait-for-Navigation on this map, it'll also be just us conquering whoever we attack since the AI can't mount useful naval invasions.

A restart it is then? OK. I'll play tonight, but probably post tomorrow. I'll make it a Pangea, same stats, England, right? ALright. I'll make the game today, play a little. I might post the results today, maybe tomorrow. We'll have to see. I'm off to play now. :)

It can always be archipello-pangaea...

Final thought: Could you build a granary before the first settler next time ? :)

Originally posted by jack merchant
Final thought: Could you build a granary before the first settler next time ? :)

Didn't have to, because we popped one! Anyway, here are my OFFICIAL 40. It was the situation I dreamed of when I made this game - a continent, us in a grassy, central location, with at least 2 civs around us. Beatiful. Anyway, here it is:

[4000 BC - Turn 1] A good start. On a river, with Cattle, and no coast in sight. Looks like this is a keeper. I found London on the starting square, it has cattle and its on a river. Its all good. OK, with it founded, there ARE coasts in sight, but lets just hope, shall we? :)

[3950 BC - Turn 2] I research Bronze at MinSci, 2gpt. Our first goody hut reveals nothing.

[3900 BC - Turn 3] Exploration reveals more cattle to the NE.

[3850 BC - Turn 4] A nice stretch of grassland to the North. This start is alright, lets just hope its at least on a continent. (I selected Pangea, 70% water BTW.)

[3800 BC - Turn 5] Second goody hut reveals a Settler! Oh yeah! [dance] This game is looking out JUST fine, thank you. The settler will trek a few turns south to found York on a spot almost identical to London - river and cattle.

[3750 BC - Turn 6] Scout->Scout in London. More grassland in the North, hints of a forest/hills patch up ahead.

[3700 BC - Turn 7] Lots o' forest in the North. Grassland in the East. (Aren't these terrain reports much more interesting then "Nothing"? :p)

[3650 BC - Turn 8] York founded East and inland. 2 cities in 8 turns, not bad!

[3600 BC - Turn 9] London riots (you'd think after two 40 turn sets I'd realize cities riot at size two, but no...) I bump lux up to 20%, problem solved. Our econ. is at 33 turns/2gpt now. I should be able to drop lux down to 0 after the MP is built in London. We get 25g from a Barb hut way up North. Furs found to the SE, close to York.

[3550 BC - Turn 10] Scout->Warrior in London. That brings us to 3 scouts, enough for now.

[3500 BC - Turn 11] London expands. Streches of grassland all around, this start is beautiful. Still no AIs, though.

[3450 BC - Turn 12] We pop Cermional Burial way East. Apparently the RNG enjoyed his virign sacrifice...

[3400 BC - Turn 13] Warrior->Settler in London, Warrior->Worker in York. I drop lux to 0. We pop maps in the NW. We have a sizable amount of territory for no enemies yet. More for us!

[3350 BC - Turn 14] Nothing. Our econ is up to 28/6gpt.

[3300 BC - Turn 15] Nothing. Our continent is apparently boomerang shaped.

[3250 BC - Turn 16] More great land on an apparent Southern peninsula. I'm running out of things to say instead of "Nothing." :lol:

[3200 BC - Turn 17] Worker->Warrior in York. I've found, from two QSCs in a row, that for a non-Industrious civ, getting two workers early is key. They mine in 3 instead of 6, which is huge. We pop a Warrior in the South. Boy, how many virgins DID we sacrifice to the RNG? Ack! We see some Yellow archers way NW, but I move too quickly and I can't contact. Oh well, they will in a second.

[3150 BC - Turn 18] London riots. I pull a citizen off. It will make a Settler in two turns, so it doesn't matter. We contact Shaka. We have Alphabet, he has Warrior Code and the Wheel. He wants Alphabet and money for just one tech, so I hold off. I discover a Zulu settler and a border.

[3100 BC - Turn 19] Order restored in London. I double check the tech status: He'll give Warrior Code and all his gold (35) for Alphabet, and he'll take Alphabet and 20g for the Wheel. We need more money before we get an Alphabet + cash for two techs.

[3050 BC - Turn 20] Zimbabwae seen. Shaka founds a city in the desert.

[3000 BC - Turn 21] Settler->Warrior in London. He goes to West on a nice hilly spot.

[2950 BC - Turn 22] Warrior->Settler in York. I'll probably switch this, I just want to see if we can get the Settler off after it grows to size 3, which I can't really tell until it grows to size 2, which it will next turn. Greek Hoplite seen the the NE! Time to play the Middleman, baby. Shaka has Bronze, Wheel, and Warrior Code, and we can trade him Alphabet. Greece has Bronze and Warrior Code and we can trade him Burial. I trade Shaka Alphabet and 20g for the Wheel, then trade the Wheel and Burial to Greece for Bronze and Warrior Code. So, in one swift blow, I've established global tech parity! Shaka, Alexander, and ourselves all now have the same techs. I research Masonry at 40/3gpt, MinSci.

[2900 BC - Turn 23] Nothing but movement.

[2850 BC - Turn 24] We seem to be caught in central grassland while the rest of the world (Greece, Zulu) are in fringe deserts, with some kind of central ocean inbetween. Hell yeah.

[2800 BC - Turn 25] Nottingham founded. Greece territory seen way NE. Our econ. is up to 37/+7.

[2750 BC - Turn 26] Nothing new.

[2710 BC - Turn 27] Great, we're entering that time when the dates get all weird! We need workers, badly. They'll be my next build after the Spear in London and the Settler in York.

[2670 BC - Turn 28] I could buy two workers off Greece, but that's kind of unethical, ain't it? We all know how that kills them...

[2630 BC - Turn 29] One of our Scouts gets stuck by a Barb. Its OK, he was pretty much trailing the other one anyway.

[2590 BC - Turn 30] Scout dies. Spear->Worker in London. Our econ. is up to 32/+10.

[2550 BC - Turn 30] Settler->Spear in York. He goes to the fur spot SE. Our NWern scout is bogged down in jungle.

[2510 BC - Turn 31] Worker->Worker in London. They have to come in pairs, after all, and its a good opportunity because growth and worker will happen simultaneously.

[2470 BC - Turn 32] Nothing. Workers work to hook up Horses and road a Cattle.

[2430 BC - Turn 33] Ah, crap! Apparently several turns ago my finger slipped, and we haven't been doing any Writing research at all. My bad! :sad: Anyway its at 31/+7.

[2390 BC - Turn 34] Nothing.

[2350 BC - Turn 35] Horses hooked up, Worker->Granary in London. Hastings, our fur colony, is founded.

[2310 BC - Turn 36] We've apparently found the end of our Continent by Greece.

[2270 BC - Turn 37] Barb wipes out our defensive Warrior in Nottingham despite the fact that it was on a hill, and the Barb took no damage. What happened, RNG, I thought you liked the virigns?

[2230 BC - Turn 38] Nothing.

[2190 BC - Turn 39] Nothing.

[2150 BC - Turn 40] I trade Shaka 2gpt and 235g for Masonry. Then I trade it to Alex with 5gpt for Iron. There is Iron west of Nottingham, and that's it for me. Two openings in a row, I have Civ burnout tonight! A few notes: Hook up those Furs in the SE, they are importent. Try to expand North, because I've dangerously hugged the coast here. If we can establish a kind of wall of culture/cities, it would work out very nicely. And play the middleman between Greece and the Zulu, its working great!

And the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6_2150BC.sav

Jack, you're up, right? 24/48 in effect, 20 turns a set.

Originally posted by cgannon64


Didn't have to, because we popped one!

Doh ! I overlooked that, sorry.

I got it and will play tomorrow - it's way past bedtime here.

Some utterly lovely lands here - we will absolutely wipe out the AI and the Zulu will be first.

Preturn: Change Nottingham to warrior from spearman and work the bg tile instead of the wheat. CG, you may want to reconsider mining cattle tiles as your standard MO. Growth is more important early on. Very good move on building those workers, otoh.

2110 BC (1) Worker management. Start irrigating over the cattle near London instead of seeing it mined. We meet a Russian scout, they are up Mysticism on us.

2070 BC (2) zzz Tax rate can go up to 90%.
2030 BC (3) zzz
1990 BC (4) Furs come online. I annoy the Greeks by moving a scout through their territory, but I want to know what or who is behind them.
1950 BC (5) Hastings spear -> settler Start irrigating over the mined cattle near York - we need growth
1910 BC (6) York settler -> spear. Settler heads out to claim a second iron.
1870 BC (7) zzz
1830 BC (8) We meet the Celts, who are up mysticism and horseback riding on us. HBR is too expensive to swing a 2for1 with though.
1790 BC (9) Nottingham produces worker, switched to settler
1750 BC (10) London granary--> settler. Canterbury founded, claiming the easern iron. It's got 6 floodplains plus a grassland wheat after expansion, so it should be size 12 in no time at all.

IT We are contacted by the Spanish, who offer us contact with the Aztecs for 30 gold. I take it and exchange alphabet and iron working with the Aztecs for mysticism, HBR and 10 gold.

1725 BC (11) Diplo check reveals writing is around, as is contact with the Babylonians. I buy writing from the Spanish for 30 gp and 8 gpt and sell it and contact with the Aztecs for contact with the Babylonians and 65 gold. Sell Contact with the Aztecs to the Babylonians for 10 gold. Sell the Aztecs writing for 33 gold. Research set to Mathematics at min sci.
Establish an embassy with the Greeks, who are researching at full speed. Athens is size 2, building a settler and has 2 floodplains wheat ! Also establish an embassy with the Zulu. Zimbabwe is size 2 and working on the Oracle, due in 77.

1700 BC (12) zzz
1675 BC (13) York spear -> settler
1650 BC (14) Diplo check reveals Zulu have literature. Aren't I glad I set research to mathematics instead. London MM'd to grow faster, now at growth to size 5 in 2, settler in 2.
1600 BC (15) London settler -> spear. MM Nottingham to get settler simultaneously with growth to size 5, not before. Barb horse spotted near Nottingham.
1575 BC (16) zzz
1550 BC (17) Hastings produces settler, starts spear.
1525 BC (18) zzz

IT we lose both scouts to barbs

1500 BC (19) Zulu now have mathematics too. Literature has only spread to the Spanish. Canterbury builds worker, starts spear. York builds settler, starts spear. London builds spear, starts worker. Nottingham builds settler, starts spear. Coventry founded, starts worker.

1475 BC (20) ZZZZ.

3 settler pairs are on the way to settle at your discretion. I wanted to buy another embassy during my last turn but we cannot afford any at the moment. We of course need the embassies for our grand coalitions. We have 57 gold in the bank and are making 10 gpt. I suggest holding off on buying maths or lit until they have spread around a bit.

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-1475BC.sav)

And a screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-England.jpg

With my :band: 1000th [dance] [party] post at CFC I say: 'got it'. Play tonight.

I would suggest to get more settlers. With these we can get even more of this wounderful land...

JM: why all those spears in the build-queue?

To have some defense ?:confused: Nottingham could be changed to another settler but I saw a barb horse in the vicinity and wanted to send out the next settter with decent defense. You could change it to settler and let London build the accompanying spear. Most cities haven't got anything useful to build anyway, or are too small for settler atm.

;) I know Jack, you're right about that. I will not change too much, maybe an odd settler extra to rush to the places were other civs can settle as well. To secure a big homeland...

By the way...how many opponent civs do we have? We know 7 now, so I would need three of the other six to get MA's to declare war, no? I know that we don't have to do it, but I have an excellent chance now to declare war. And I want to do it according to the rules.

EDIT: I just read the rules. We know 7 civs, so I need four in a MA...

By chance I got the opportunity to profit from a war going on in the far north. The Aztecs and Celts were allied to get Babylon. The Celts had a couple of techs that they were very willing to give to us in exchange for war. So I decided to get enough MA's to stay in the spirit of the game.

CG: I trust that it is perfectly honorable to declare war through a MA? My MA with the Celts triggered the war with Babylon...

Preturn: change Nottingham and York to settler.

IT: Barbarian horseman west of nottingham...

1450 BC London finishes worker and starts settler.Warwick founded, starts with worker. We establish an embassy in Entremont for 60 gold. The Celts are 22 turns from completing the Oracle.

IT: Babylon declares war to our new friends the Celts. Our conscript warrior survives a barb horseman attack, no promotion however. Another barbarian horseman nears Warwick.

1425 BC Our warrior from Hasting kills a barbarian warrior, no promotion.

IT: Barbarians near the now undefended Hastings

1400 BC Our brave warrior returns to Hastings and fortifies.

IT: The Aztecs finishes the Colossus and start with the Oracle.

1375 BC The same Hastings warrior kills a horseman keen to pillage our fur-route. This 2nd brave act also doens't result in promotion.

1350 BC London finishes settler and starts spear. Newcastle founded. Starts worker.

IT: The Spanish start TGLib

1325 BC :sleep:

IT: The Greeks also start TGLib and ask us for a contribution. I accept.

1300 BC Nottingham finishes settler and starts spear. Oxford founded at the Northern border of the continent. Starts worker.

IT: Interesting...The Aztecs and Celts sign a MA against Babylon. Exactly what we need in the ancient time...

1275 BC London and Hastings finish spears and start settlers.

1250 BC Coventry finishes worker and starts spear. York finishes settler and also starts spear. We establish an embassy in Babylon for 65 gold. They build a bowman. Babylon is far north from us.

1225 BC Warwick finishes worker and starts spear. London finishes spear and starts settler. Nottingham riots...:blush: . Liverpool founded. Starts worker. Canterburry finishes spear and starts temple. Our very brave warrior from Hastings manages to beat a third barbarian spear. Again no promotion.

1200 BC Dover built. Starts spearman. We get an embassy in the Aztec capital. They're trying to build the Oracle, but still need 22 turns...

Allright. We have a couple of civs in war with Babylon. This is a very strong civ in potential. We have the money now to get alliances, so I decide to get the world behind me and maybe get something out of it...

Who is going to refuse this Aztec offer: Literature, Mathematics and 63 gold for a MA with Babylon :cool:
We get 46 gold and ROP from the Celts...

With the money from the Celts and Aztecs is money I can afford an embassy in Madrid. The Spanish will finish the Oracle next turn.

It seemed that Spain wanted war altogether and want to pay us 31 gold for the MA and delare war!

That leaves me with the money to get an embassy in Moskow for 65 gold. They finish a settler next turn.

Russia wants a ROP for the MA.

We've got four allies now, but two are still not in the pact. Those two want more and are our neighbours: Greece and Zululand. They want 24 gpt and 12 gpt. I think that's too much...

IT: The Spanish indeed finish the Oracle.

1175 BC Newcastle finishes worker and starts spear. Research to Map Making.

1150 BC Nottingham finishes spear and starts settler. Brighton founded SW of Delphi. Starts temple to rush for culture...

1125 BC London finishes settler and we are advised to build the FP.

IT: What are two aztecs warriors doing close to our borders?

1100 BC York finishes spear and starts settler.

1075 BC :sleep:

1050 BC Oxford finishes worker and starts temple to rush.

1025 BC London and Canterburry finish spear to start settler.

1000 BC :sleep:

Next player: We are at war. But I haven't seen a Babylonian unit yet. In fact, I don't expect them. They will be tto busy to waste their golden age in a war against 3 other AI civs. Be aware that both Egypt and Zululand are NOT allied with us. They wanted too much from us.

I think we are still in the expansion phase. Therefore I have a couple of settler in the built at the moment.

1000 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-1000BC.SAV)

Nice work ! Do we even know where Babylon is ? :D

EDIT: Yes we do, as you can see. The red dot in the north is Babylon:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-knownworldall1.JPG

And here's our empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-england1000BC.JPG

Our first alliance:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG6-firstalliance1.JPG

Nice work on the expansion guys. The forums is SO damn slow today its tough work just getting from page to page. :p Anyway, about irrigating the cattle: IIRC, irrigating it will have no effect until Monarchy/Republic, right? Isn't there the cap on growth in Despotism, so irrigating is does nothing until a new government? That's why I've been mining..unless I'm wrong, of course. Good to see us at war, even if its a million light years away. And I liked getting the coalition, even if it wasn't necessary under Despotism. ;)

Now, who's up? With the slow forum, I'm too lazy to go back and check...

EDIT: I see, its T-Hawk, if he wants to play. T-Hawk, you've got 48 hours, if no word by then, I'll pick it up.

I'm up, yeah. My computer here is refusing to read my PTW disc to install the game, though. I should be back at my other PC on Sunday evening, and I can play then.

Cattle square - cattle should almost always be irrigated under Despotism. The exception is if the city is able to reach +5 surplus food without it, in which case grassland cattle should be mined , but plains cattle can't be improved by mining in despotism.

The penalty for depositism is one less one.

Grassland = 2
With Cattle (+2) = 4
With water (+1) = 5
After depositism = 4

I almost always irrigate those cows

Originally posted by cgannon64
Anyway, about irrigating the cattle: IIRC, irrigating it will have no effect until Monarchy/Republic, right? Isn't there the cap on growth in Despotism, so irrigating is does nothing until a new government? That's why I've been mining..unless I'm wrong, of course. Good to see us at war, even if its a million light years away. And I liked getting the coalition, even if it wasn't necessary under Despotism. ;)

About the cattle tile: just read the excellent opening play skills article (http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/cracker/civ3_starts/) from cracker!

And yes, I figured you would like to see the coalition. Note that I was the one who thought it was too difficult in the ancient times...

Thanks for the info on the cattle guys. That's been one of those noob misunderstandings that strangely survived all the way to Emperor level...:lol:

Weird a super-dealed TRIPLE POST! This is one for the records, folks!

Ditto!

EDIT: I think this may have been my 4000th. Whatever it was...[dance]!

EDIT2: I won't mind waiting until Sunday, would anyone else? :)

OK, here goes. (Did I say Sunday night? I meant Saturday afternoon :) )

Hey, there's tech brokering deals that were left on the table.

162 gold + world map to Spain for Code of Laws.
Code of Laws, world map, 30 gold to Aztecs for Polytheism.
Code of Laws, Polytheism, WM to Celts for Map Making and the World Map.

Why is there a barb horse sitting outside of Hastings? I wake the warrior there to dispatch it.

And I think I'm getting high on all the :smoke: here. Worker mining the cattle at Newcastle? Coventry has pointlessly irrigated grassland? Canterbury, York, Brighton, others not set to highest food? Completely haphazard city placement with way too many unused tiles in gaps between them? Workers building a road on a horses tile that's not within our borders - and we already HAVE another horses hooked up?? :mad:

Well, I guess that's why I'm here... :)

======

925 BC: We buy Philosophy and resell it to a couple of civs.

730 BC: Babylon makes peace with the Celts.

630 BC: 550 gold to Spain for Construction. Construction to Greece for Currency. Middle Ages.

610 BC: Spain gets Greece to sign alliance against Babylon. :goodjob:

======

Not much happened. I think we're done building settlers. Nobody has Republic yet, but it should come around soon.

We need to start thinking about the Forbidden Palace. I guess we'll want to go to war against either Greece or Zululand (that'd be my choice) sometime after knights, and build the Forbidden Palace in that direction. Newcastle would work, or we can wait for a Leader to rush it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cg6-550bc.zip

Nice work T-Hawk. I guess we should wait a day or two to see if we can get another recruit, eh? I'll post an ad in the SG thread. If no one posts for 48 hours (that's Monday night) then I'll pick it up.

This has been a little slow to start, but that's OK. :)

You're up anyway, CG, so I suggest you just take it and advertise for a fifth player. Let's keep this one moving, shall we ? :)

edit: I agree with T-Hawk on going after the Zulu first. I suspect building the Oracle has slowed them down no end, whereas the Greeks have had 2 floodplains wheat to turn Athens into a killer settler factory. We shouldn't try to tackle hoplites before we have knights at least or, preferably, cavalry.

Alright, I got the game. I'm not playing tonight though, I'll play tomorrow. :)

T-Hawk, thanks for all the comments on my and other people's :smoke: I very much appreciate that.

However, I want to explain one or two things:

- The road to the horses was meant to connect Newcastle to the rest of our empire. Not to get the horses hooked up.
- I figured that we needed a large empire, so I started with grabbing as much land as possible. I figured that we would fill the gaps a little later...

Thanks for pointing out that I didn't mm the cities on growth...

:( Can you guys skip me? I have more homework then usual this weekend. I'll be fine by the next time I come up, but right now I'm a little overloaded...:o

I guess that would make Jack up? :)

No problem, I'll take it. Homework is more important (guess how I found that out :D)

Originally posted by jack merchant
No problem, I'll take it. Homework is more important (guess how I found that out :D)

:lol: Besides regular homework, one of my teachers has just went insane. A major project due the 28th, and then another major one due right after, on the 1st.

I guess she forgot that April and May are part of the marking period too. :p :lol: :D

quick question: are we still playing 20 turns or do we go for 10 now ?

Jack, I would say 10....

Yeah we can go to 10 now. :)

If you guys are still looking for another player I'd like to play. I've never played an SG before but I do alright on emperor. I've read a few SG threads so I know how it works.

I'll be happy to have you aboard, Shillen. Cgannon will have to decide where you go in the turn order.

Preturn: Diplocheck reveals we are at tech parity except Greece has monotheism on us. I sell around our worldmap for 54 gold total. Change Nottingham to worker from aqueduct and change one worked tile in London for +1 gpt and spt.
There are two Aztec archers in our lands - I assume they're moving on Babylon, which is good, as some cities are defended by warriors and 2 cities are, er, occupied by workers.
This, I suppose, needs fixing. I notice we have stolen the Zulu wines. Nice :)

530 BC (1) Brighton completes temple, starts courthouse. Change Coventry to temple as several cities will benefit from closing the culture gap. Change London to spear to be sent to Newcastle.

510 BC (2) Nottingham worker -> spear.

490 BC (3) London spear -> market

470 BC (4) York spear -> market, Coventry temple -> market. Up luxes to 30% to keep London and Nottingham happy. Republic isn't around; monarchy is. I'm not going to try and buy monarchy.

450 BC (5) Nottinghanm spear -> market. Wines come online, luxes back to 20%.

430 BC (6) Reading granary -> market

410 BC (7) Leeds granary - barracks, Dover granary - temple. 2 Greeks swords show up near our borders.

390 BC (8) Greek troops move onto the mountain next to Brighton. We are still allied vs the Babs with them so I gamble they won't attack. I missed the riot in Dover; entertainer hired there as it isn't connected yet.

370 BC (9) Greeks don't attack - yet. 5 of their swords are visible. Birmingham spear -> temple.

350 BC (10) It appears the Greeks are indeed moving towards the Babs. That's going to be a long walk.

We are still formally at war with the Babs. No useful techs have appeared the last 10 turns. We don't really need monotheism yet but if we want it, consider gifting construction to the Russians to lower the price. I think Newcastle will be the best spot for the FP atm, as we can take over the Zulu first since they lack both horses and iron. However, we have no offensive military to speak of. London and York could start on some barracks as soon as they have markets.
Consider all infrastructure builds subject to veto: for now they are geared towards growth at the expense of military.
I have started some irrigation projects, as they will be useful right away when republic shows up. Not too many though.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-350BC.sav)

Who's up Shillen or me?

Nice turn Jack. I agree on the FP and would say to the next one up: build it now.

Well I played the next 10 turns for the hell of it. If it's Aggie's turn I'll just use it for comparison. Let me know if you want to use mine though.

Shillen, just post your turns and I'm next.... :) I'm sure CG doesn't mind....

Ok, it wasn't a very eventful 10 turns anyway. :)

Preturn: Is there a reason the workers by Coventry and London are irrigating grassland tiles? I stop them and tell them to mine instead. MM: move Coventry cit. from Birmingham’s mined grass to the other mined grass, move Birmingham cit. from irrigated grass to mined grass, switch Brighton and Canterbury cit.’s a bunch to work all the flood plains. Switch Nottingham from marketplace to aqueduct. Birmingham switched from temple to aqueduct. It will be size 6 before it’s finished.

Diplomacy: Only Greece has monotheism. Greece, Zulu, and Celts have monarchy. No reason to trade for monarchy since we’re going for republic. We don’t need monotheism atm, we can probably get it when we get engineering.

330 BC (1) Nothing important.

IT: Russia, Aztecs, and Spain ask to renew MA’s, I see no reason not to.

310 BC (2) Warwick temple => courthouse.

290 BC (3) London marketplace => barracks. Leeds barracks => horseman. Opportunity to buy 2 zulu workers for wm and 227 gold. I decided against it but let me know if I should have done it.

270 BC (4) York marketplace => barracks. Reading riots, accidentally removed the entertainer I guess. Blah worker by York finished irrigating grassland, missed that one. I sign RoP with Greeks and throw in alliance vs Babylon and 12 gold to go along with the spirit of the game. Their stream of troops was blocking off tiles that I needed to improve so hopefully they’ll pass through a lot more quickly now.

250 BC (5) Oxford granary => courthouse. None of the AI’s have learned any new techs yet.

IT: Zululand and Greece sign MA against Babylon. Greece withdraws half its troops back into its own territory for some reason. Other half continue towards Babylon.

230 BC (6) Warwick expands pushing back Greek borders a little and grabbing cattle.

210 BC (7) London barracks => horseman. Nottingham aqueduct => marketplace.

190 BC (8) York barracks => horseman.

170 BC (9) Hastings temple => aqueduct. Newcastle courthouse => forbidden palace (34 turns). Leeds horseman => horseman.

150 BC (10) London horseman => horseman.

Nobody learned a single tech during that whole timeframe. I guess the war is really slowing down the tech pace. One consequence of the war though is everyone will have strong militaries. Leeds is building another hoseman, you might want to switch it to aqueduct now but I figured it could do one more horseman first. It shouldn’t be long before we have enough horsemen to attack the Zulus and we have tons of money to sign MA’s with.

Here's the save, CG6-150BC.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-150BC.SAV).

Oh yeah I don't know if we should build a few galleys and try to contact the other continent. It's very possible they could be far ahead of us since the tech pace is so slow on our continent. Sucks that the Pyramids are over there too.

Edit: Oh yeah you changed it to a pangaea map didn't you? There's an awful lot of blackness for a pangaea map. I know the Arabs are on another continent. Are there more opponents CG or just those 8?

Edit2: We're 12th in military service so there must be 4 civ's on the other continent or possibly on their own islands.

I started some irrigation in the expectation that republic would show up fairly soon and it would help the cities grow more quickly when we got there (as mentioned in my report). I tend to do that if the cities in question have enough other improved tiles to work.

The tech rate is unbelievably slow; at this pace, we may have to start republic ourselves :eek: Building some galleys is probably a good idea.
Good turn, Shillen !

Got it. I won't play tonight (PBEM vs ERIKK). My mother is going to be operated tomorrow. If all goes well, I'll play tomorrow afternoon (CET). However, if I haven't played within 24 hours, skip me.

I figured that's what you were doing Jack, but I don't think it's necessary. Those cities will reach size 12 easily without irrigating grassland. Usually I don't bother irrigating any grassland until hospitals come around. Some instances vary though.

Hope all goes well there Aggie. :)

Anyway, good work everyone. About the map: Its a Pangea, maximum civs, so I guess he have a pseudo-pangea (like most end up being). Anyways, Aggie is up now, right? Good luck.

The turn order, to end some confusion:

Me
Jack
Shillen
Aggie
T-Hawk

I was going to put Shillen at the end, but switching now would be kind of unfair because that would give him two turns in four. :p Anyway, tech is going slow, probably because the AIs are tryign futilely to take out Babylon. :crazyeye: More for us, I guess. :p

Good luck Aggie (with the game and the surgery). :)

Originally posted by cgannon64
Good luck Aggie (with the game and the surgery). :)

Thanks. When I post a story tomorrow , you know it's OK ;) (with the surgery, not with the game... :p )

My best wishes for your mother, Aggie.

I should have done this in my turn but you should change one of the entertainers to scientists and lower the science slider to 0. This will net us an additional 14gpt. I had to hire an entertainer in London. If I moved the slider to 30% we would have lost 17gpt. Besides even with the entertainer London produces exactly enough shields to make horsemen in 3 turns.

Good news from my mother: the surgery was a success. I'll play in a couple of hours.

Preturn: I have a look at the map and decide to switch Hastings from aquaduct to galley. Lonodon's entertainer is switched to scientist. Science rate to 0% (thanks hillen) Rest looks OK.

Turn 1 (130BC) Canterbury: marketplace->courthouse. York: horseman->library. We are technologically advanced. So I don't expect the other undiscovered civs to be way in front....

Turn 2 (110BC) Norwich: harbor->galley. Spain, Zululand and the Russia have the Republic!. Spain offers Republic for 955 gold and w/m. Deal!

IT: The Greeks are building Sistine...

Turn 3 - 8 (90BC - 10AD)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6anarchy.JPG
IT: 5 and 6: the Zulu demand tribute. I figure that I must pay, being in anarchy and all...
IT: 6 and 7: Spain and Babylon make peace. The Celts and Greece sign a MA against Babylon.

Turn 9 (30AD) At last! That took long. We are a republic now... We make 136 GPT!

Turn 10 (50AD) Dover: temple->courthouse. Hastings: galley->galley. London: horseman->horseman.

I buy Feudalism from the Celts for 675 gold and 13gpt. Greece gives us monotheism for Feudalism and 4gpt.

We can get more deals, but I leave that to the next player. We are rich! Still 118 gpt.

EDIT: here is the non-corrupt save: 50 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-50AD1.SAV)

Ah, republic at last ! Does this mean we have to go to war now ?

Good to hear about your mother, Aggie.

Originally posted by jack merchant
Ah, republic at last ! Does this mean we have to go to war now ?

Good to hear about your mother, Aggie.

Not that I know of. We CAN pick a far away civ to get MA's against, but imho we should wait. I feel that we must wait until we get our very powerful UU to do a lot of damage :) ... :( ... :cry: Seriously though; our military is not strong enough yet. Let us first end the MA deal against Babylon in a couple of turns.



Thanks Jack ;)

Originally posted by Aggie


Not that I know of. We CAN pick a far away civ to get MA's against, but imho we should wait. I feel that we must wait until we get our very powerful UU to do a lot of damage :) ... :( ... :cry: Seriously though; our military is not strong enough yet. Let us first end the MA deal against Babylon in a couple of turns.

I think we need to strike the Zulus before they get gunpowder. Not having iron is just a huge disadvantage in the early middle ages. With the huge amount of gp we're making we can easily upgrade all of our horsemen to knights as soon as the AI researches chivalry. So I'm kind of hoping at that point we have at least 20 horsemen to overrun the Zulus with.

Also we need to pay close attention to happiness in this game. We're going to need cathedrals in all our core cities at least. Hell colosseums might even be worth their cost in this game. It's too bad the Zulus don't have any luxuries for us. But the celts behind them have all the other luxuries on our continent. So I would think they would be our second target. The rest of the luxuries are most likely on the other land masses. Also if the Greeks get Sistine's that will be a BIG target. Would be cool if we got a leader to rush either Bach's or Sistine's.

Whoever makes peace with Babylon make sure to wait for Greece's MA to end. The other two will end a few turns sooner.

Good turn btw Aggie. Finally out of despotism. :)

@ jack: No, its not mandatory to declare war now, but now it is mandatory for all our wars to be coalitions. And we have to make one coalition before the end of the Middle Ages, but I'm sure we will.

@ Shillen: I agree on your assesment of the situation. With this much gpt, a horse->knight mass upgrade is almost obvious. Zulus would be a good first target too.

T-Hawk, you're up! :)

I'm up, I think. Got it.

Cathedrals aren't worth the cost to build them, especially if we're prosecuting a militaristic game. Simply leaving the luxury slider at 20% if necessary will work, until we conquer the luxury resources for ourselves.

I'll see how we can get our hands on some iron to do a mass horse->knight upgrade. Also, if we get a leader, I'd think we should do Sun Tzu's, as that will make our conquesting significantly easier.

You won't have to do much; we already have two sources of iron :)

edit: Ignore this post. I'll play later tonight.

Inherited turn:

Run the usual micromanagement, mostly adjusting cities to grow sooner. Population's everything at this point: London can reach 10 shields/turn at size 9, or we can grow it to 12 and reach 15 shields/turn.

Lux tax up one notch to get rid of a half-dozen entertainers, including one in our Forbidden Palace city.

Diplo check: good, no deals left on the table this time. :) I decide to sell Feudalism to Spain for her 140 cash; it isn't a whole lot but it's free money for us. Then that cash is used to rush a library in Richmond (better culture per buck than a temple.)

======

110 AD: I think we should try to build Sun Tzu's, since we can't be sure of going to war and actually getting a Leader in time to build it. And believe me, Sunny T's will help tremendously when we do go conquering. Only three other cities are building it so far, and all three are tiny and pathetic.

Where? I'd have to say London, which will max at size 12 quite soon and can work five mined hills then. Often, it's not a good idea to build a wonder in your capital, since it can't use the Palace to carry over if you miss out on the wonder you're building. But that's rarely a problem with Sun Tzu's specifically, since always plenty of other wonders around to swap to.


150 AD: By now, all of the civs have called us up to cancel the alliances against Babylon. So we may as well make peace - and Babylon concedes us two cities! Both have nothing of use and are badly whipped.

170 AD: Our minimum science run on Engineering finishes, and we got it first. Traded to Greece for Monarchy + Theology. Traded to Brennus for his 730 gold.

I set our lone scientist to Printing Press. We could research Chivalry ourselves, but it would take 12 turns to do it without going broke, and I think it's likely someone else will research it before then.


=======

And that's all that happened. Greece just got Education, but there's no way we're interested in paying monopoly price for it.

Leave Newcastle running max shields to finish the FP - trying to grow beyond 7 won't get it done any sooner. Also make sure London stays on max shields for the wonder. Don't adjust Nottingham this turn - it will complete the horse this turn by growing and auto-picking-shields from a hill. Leave Leeds at size 6 and let it build troops rather than trying to build an aqueduct. York's set to a medieval infantry because it could complete either that or a horse this turn, so may as well build the stronger unit.

All we're waiting for is Chivalry and then we can unload onto the Zulu. There's a dozen horsemen waiting in Newcastle already. Get roads built around Richmond - if we have roads in the right places, we can attack Umtata with medieval infantry and Ulundi and Hlobane with knights all on the first turn of the war - <b>Shock and Awe<b> :)

Next leader can consider researching Chivalry at maximum if you want. Never can tell how long the AIs will take to get to it. I didn't do it since we're not quite ready yet - we could use another dozen horsemen first, and we do need a lot of cash to upgrade them.

We'll have to keep luxuries at 30% for a while, at least until we can conquer or trade for some more luxury resources.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/cg6-250ad.zip

2 cities, and we didn't even fight :eek:

Anyone else think that the Greeks are going too fast ? We should probably go after them after we have conquered a nice area around our FP. I agree on not researching chivalry ourselves - the AI's usually get it before education. I can see the Greeks why the Greeks went for education first though as it helps them more.

Good work T-Hawk. I'm up, but I will probably not be able to play tonight, probably tomorrow. At the latest, Friday afternoon (still within the 48 hour limit :p) but that's drastic. :)

:mad: They're piling the work on, but I'm still finding time for Civ. :)

Great turn T-Hawk. I'm learning more every round you play :)

Sorry guys, its definetely no-go tonight. I have a BIG project due tomorrow, and I, of course, procrastinated.

Definetely tomorrow though. Its Friday, after all. :)

OK, here are my (delayed) 10 turns. The war with the Zulus has started, with great success!

[Inherited Turn] Ah, my first look at our empire since my first 20 turns, and I'm happy. It looks like the entire world avoided Chivalry...that's strange. I can research Chivalry at 9 turns/-12. The only way we'd make money is at 11 turns, but that's too much. 12g isn't much, after all. :)

[Turn 1 - 260 AD] :o Ack. I accidentally set Lux at one less then it should have been, and our entire empire riots. Damn! I put it to its proper spot, at 30%, and its all over with. Anyway, the Greeks are a little to free with our territory, but I'll let it slide. Besides this, not much I can do. I just work workers and I'll wait until the rioting stops before I change builds around.

[Turn 2 - 270 AD] I switch two cities to horses; we could use a few more. More working. I do a little math and see that, barring anything drastic, we'll have about 1500g when we finish researching Calvary. Argh, I can never remember the upgrade cost when I need it! I think it was Difference in shields x 2, right? If so, then its 80g per horse upgrade - quite alot. That means we can get 18 horses upgraded with all our cash. Lowering the tech a notch would only give us another 3 horses..so its worth it. :)

[Turn 3 - 280 AD] Greeks and Spanish start Sun Tzu's. Looks like the typical Medeveival cascade could take it out. :( I head online to check the reports about that FP build - screwing up there could be drastic. Opera then crashes. :lol: I try again, with IE. ("Electrical Superstorms..." :lol: ) Finally, after about 10 minutes, I see that the FP is actually to be built, not a prebuild. I guess I should read more carefully. Moving along: I drop science again, to 7 turns. The cost was steadily rising at 5, and I don't want to spend 50gpt to get it. At 7 turns, its only -6, a good price. I can wait.

(InterTurn) Aztecs and Greeks sign MA against Babylon. What appears to be a Greek military stream continues through our territory.

[Turn 4- 290 AD] Two horses built, Oxford riots. A touch of sea spotted across the Aztecan channel; could be promising, I'll suicide towards it next turn. The horse stack in Richmond is at 12. Chivalry is now at 6 turns/-11gpt, probably because Oxford rioted. It will be back on next turn. :)

[Turn 5 - 300 AD] No one has Chivalry yet, which is good. My plan is to sell it around to get MAs. Putting it in an MA package will mean less gpt cost on us and more military help from allies. Chivarly up to 5 turns/-14gpt. Our suicide run to the patch of sea reveals just that - a patch of sea. There may be land north, but looks like we may die pointlessly. If its one of those weird random patches of sea, I'm pissed!

[Turn 6 - 310 AD] Two horsemen built. Our galley lives! His move north reveals more weird sea patch. Damn it! 16 horses in Richmond now. I'm happy - ideally, our army could conquer three Zulu cities on the first turn of the war; not bad.

[Turn 7 - 320 AD] Our galley dies for nothing. Damn sea patch. Ooo! A boost in our science (I think I built a library) changes our Chivarly research to 1 turn/-13gpt. After I get that I'm dropping it to zero and starting to shop around for MAs. Looks like I may see the war after all...:mwaha:

[Turn 8 - 330 AD] We research Invention at min sci, making +150 gpt. The Horseman upgrade is 17 total, costing us 1360g. Not bad. So now we have 17 Knights, 1 Horse, and 2 MIs ready to invade. Time to buy some MAs! There are 6 civs, not including Zulu, so that's 3 MAs. The obvious choice for the first is the Celts: they are strong and they border the Zulu. They refuse it. Damn. I call up the Greeks, our second choice: they are strong and have military in the area. They refuse! That leaves 3 out of these 4: Spain, Aztecs, Celts, and Russia. Fake alliances. The Spanish refuse. The Babylonians do it for free! Alright, that's one. Russia does it for our Iron, so we accept. And finally, the Aztecs do it for Republic. Well, looks like we're going pretty much alone. We'll move in next turn, when all the troops are ready.

[Turn 9 - 340 AD] Our troops are readied. We kill an Archer outside of Umtata and capture a worker. We capture it easily, killing two Impis, getting one of our Knights wounded and the second winning. We keep it. We can either stop our troops one tile outside of Hlobane and attack next turn or attack across a river. I decide to do neither, and get that city later in the war. Ulundi is our next target - its size 8 and should be filled with Impis, quite a battle. Ulundi is also easy. We lose one Knight, kill maybe 4 Impis. Very easy battle. I keep the city and we capture a worker. I send out two Knights to capture Hlobane. I capture it easily, using two Knights across the river and winning. Three cities, not bad for one turn. Blitzkreig!

[Turn 10 - 350 AD] Ulundi riots, I starve it. FP built in Newcastle. :D We move on Swazi. Its size 4, has Pikes, may be slightly tougher. Correction: had one Pike, that killed a Knight and was redlined. It also had an Impi. Two defenders, and this battle was very easy. Swazi falls easily, and we keep it. And that's the end of my turn. Our economy is very good: +212gpt! Just some notes: The war is going very well, just try to get some reinforcements in there, because I can picture 17 Knights thinning out by the end. And try to shift our workers towards our FP, it needs some work around it. Other than that, just conquer the Zulu! :D

One final thing: Don't make the mistake I did. I signed an MA without checking that two other people would. If I could only get one, I'm screwed, and I'd have to reload. So just make sure that you have half of the civs willing before you sign. Don't be stupid like me.

Good luck Jack!

Oops, forgot the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6_350AD.sav

cgannon: nice turn!

One question: did you declare war before asking for alliances? If not, you should know that alliances get cheaper when you are at war with a civ...

Originally posted by Aggie

One question: did you declare war before asking for alliances? If not, you should know that alliances get cheaper when you are at war with a civ...

I didn't know that. There is one problem with that - what if no one, or less than half, of the world wants to sign MAs? Then I just broke the rules, and I'd either have to reload or play with broken rules. I'll use that in non-coalition games (so thanks) but I'm afraid it can't be done here, because its risky.

Same reason I nearly made a stupid mistake by signing an MA before I knew I had three.

@cgannon: I never had problems to get MA's after declaring war. We have a lot of gpt. We could pay that if we want. At this point, looking at how war against the Zulu progresses, we don't need the Greeks and Celts to help us.

On the other hand: we can use the MA's to ensure that they don't backstab us...

got it.

As Aggie said, alliances become a whole lot cheaper once you are actually at war with the civ you're trying to buy an alliance against. Something to remember for the next time ;) Now that we
are at war, I'll try to sign half of the known civs to alliances.

Originally posted by jack merchant
got it.

As Aggie said, alliances become a whole lot cheaper once you are actually at war with the civ you're trying to buy an alliance against. Something to remember for the next time ;) Now that we
are at war, I'll try to sign half of the known civs to alliances.

Again, its risky. What if, even if its cheaper, we can only get less then half of the world to sign on? Then we just broke the rules...

For Future Notice: Do not sign MAs until you are postive that you can get at least half of the world to sign. We don't want to break any rules. :p

In my experience, it's next to impossible to get people to sign MA's with you to civs you are not currently at war with (unless they're already at war with the target). Are you saying we should always get an alliance beforehand ?

OTOH, we could just sign ROP's with people just before we go to war and declare them a member of the coalition of the wiling :p

Why are we building so many knights in cities without barracks? Regular units are a waste of shields IMO. A barracks is even cheaper to build than a knight is, so you might as well build a barracks then start building knights. I understand we're building Sun Tzu's but you can sell those barracks off after we get it. It's really not worth building regular units. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Shillen
Why are we building so many knights in cities without barracks? Regular units are a waste of shields IMO. A barracks is even cheaper to build than a knight is, so you might as well build a barracks then start building knights. I understand we're building Sun Tzu's but you can sell those barracks off after we get it. It's really not worth building regular units. Just my opinion though.

Good point, an oversight by me. :o

@ Jack: I managed to do it...:)

Originally posted by cgannon64
For Future Notice: Do not sign MAs until you are postive that you can get at least half of the world to sign. We don't want to break any rules. :p

I say it again: I have played a lot of civ3 games in this fassion and I never had any problems getting the WHOLE world behind me when at war with a civ. Provided that I had enough to trade. 200 gpt income qualifies...

Do I understand correctly that we just got a new rule: war is only allowed if we are able to get at least the half of the world behind us before declaring? That will add a little spice to the game! Please confirm or deny this rule cgannon :)

Originally posted by Aggie


I say it again: I have played a lot of civ3 games in this fassion and I never had any problems getting the WHOLE world behind me when at war with a civ. Provided that I had enough to trade. 200 gpt income qualifies...

I'll take your word for it...:)


Do I understand correctly that we just got a new rule: war is only allowed if we are able to get at least the half of the world behind us before declaring? That will add a little spice to the game! Please confirm or deny this rule cgannon :)

Hasn't this been a rule the whole time? :confused:

Preturn Buy a Russian worker because I can. Sign a ROP with the Aztecs. The Celts now have education too but I'll wait a few turns until the Spanish have it too before I buy it.
Switch Canterbury to barracks from knight. Switch Brighton & Hastings to pike. Wake up some workers in Newcastle and send them to do useful things. MM Newcastle for growth. Shave 2 turns off Sun Tzu by working a hill instead of a non-bonus grass. Coventry is working a regular hill instead of the mined gold hill -changed.

360 AD (1) York knight -> pikeman. Hurry a temple in Umtata and set it to starve.

IT The Babs come calling for an alliance vs the Aztecs. As if we would turn on our allies.

370 AD (2) Warwick courthouse -> market. Oxford courthouse -> library as it needs some culture. We capture Mpondo along with 2 workers and a catapult. I notice our northern cities are still empty and hurry troops in them for 64 gold.

380 AD (3) Several cities start markets, knights. The Zulu now have iron hooked up; Med Inf spotted.

390 AD (4) 13 Knights advance on Zimbabwe.

400 AD (5) Greeks start Leonardo's. It costs us 4 knights but Zimbabwe is ours, along with the Great Wall and, more usefully, the Hanging Gardens.

IT The Zulu have knights, too. One kills a 1hp knight that I mismoved last turn, another impales itself upon Zimbabwe.

410 AD (6) Kill a Zulu knight and move troops into Zimbabwe to quell the resistance. Hurry the library in Oxford.

420 AD (7)

&

430 AD (8) No major combat. Cities producing infrastructure, mostly.

440 AD (9) Zulu sign peace with Aztecs & Russians. Aztecs sign peace with Babylonians. While picking off some Zulu archers near Zimbabwe, one of our two elite knights produces this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-GL2.jpg

The unit is renamed Merchant's Marauders and will form the core of the newly formed Army. I add two more vet knights into the army.

450 AD (10) Our Army wins its first victory. The HE is started in Nottingham, our second-highest producing city. We capture Bapedi.

Thoughts/ideas for the next player: I didn't buy education yet, but we will have to do so soon. Only the Greeks and the Celts are capable of doing any kind of research at all on our continent.
If we buy it via gpt, we cannot attack the civ we buy it from. We do have enough money to buy it for straight up cash though (an alternative plan is to steal invention from the Greeks and trade it for education with the Celts).
We have more than enough money to do our own research if we so choose. However, before we do so, we will need libraries in pretty much all our cities.
I'm divided on our next target. Once we finish off the Zulu our troops will be nearer to Celtia, but I think Greece may actually be more dangerous. Also, to get at the Celts, we have to move through a thick patch of jungle, so our supply lines will be incredibly tenous and casualties will likely be heavy.

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-450AD.zip)

Good work Jack. Looks like the Zulu are down but not yet out.

I agree with your thoughts about the next target - the Greeks are a much more pressing threat then the Celts. The Greeks are now the second best civ in the world, and we can't handle rivalry, right? :p I think they'll be a tough fight, but it will be necessary. But we'll need a much bigger knight army first. :p

I beleive Shillen is up? Or is it Aggie?

Shillen is up. Good luck !

I think the Greek's should be next, yeah. But I don't think we'll be ready to attack them for a long time. We're still building infrastructure in most of our cities and our attack force against the Zulu is thinning without any reinforcements coming.

We might think about starting our own research after invention. I think we have pretty solid cores now and should be able to learn techs in like 4-6 turns without running a defecit. We can buy education and get universities up and we should be ready to go on that.

We need more luxuries badly though so we can turn the slider down. The Aztecs and Babylonians are both very weak, Babylon has silks, and Aztecs have dyes. We could possibly acquire them from them. The coalitions would be a pain in the butt though. If not for the variant I'd say we could just take those two cities and sign peace a few turns later. But since we need to form a coalition the war would have to go at least 20 turns and cost us money in alliances. Probably not worth it.

I got it btw, should be done this afternoon sometime.

Bad news. Greece declared war on us on the first turn. I got Aztecs, Celts, Spain, and Babylon in MA against Greece. All our attack force is in Zululand though. Should we make peace with Zululand and focus on Greece now? Those hoplites are going to pillage us like crazy if I don't get some offensive units over there to kill them. Besides we captured all the Zulu cities we needed to get our second core up and going and WW will probably set in soon from the Zulu war. What do you think? I'll delay my turn until I get some responses.

edit: Forgot about alliances vs Zulu. I just checked and the only alliance still standing is with Babylon which goes on for another 7 turns. I don't think it would be so bad to break that alliance, but I'm not sure if it's against the rules or not.

Ouch that's bad. Good luck with that Shillen...I guess he just have to hold off the Greeks until we can get knights over there.

CG, is it ok to make peace with Zulu even though we still have an MA with Babylon going?

Originally posted by Shillen
CG, is it ok to make peace with Zulu even though we still have an MA with Babylon going?

Yeah, I think that would be alright. It will hurt our rep though won't it? Do you think a damaged rep is worth it?

I'd say do NOT break the alliance. We still need to bbuy some later on.. Just rush knights like crazy -we have enough gold to.

I've broken MA's in other games and not had a noticeably damaged rep. I don't have any proof, but I suspect that your rep is only temporarily damaged when you break an MA, and it returns to normal after so many turns. What led me to believe this is attitude. I always notice right after I break an MA with a civ their attitude drops to annoyed or whatever. But about 30 turns later in the game they're back to polite even though I never gifted them anything, or signed any ROP's or anything that would have increased it.

But to be safe I guess I'll keep that war going for 7 more turns. It will just suck to have to fend off the Zulu MDI's. And impis with their 2 movement are pretty good at pillaging too.

What kind of alliance game are we playing when we can break them at will? I'd say: stick to the alliances...

Originally posted by cgannon64
Hasn't this been a rule the whole time? :confused:

on my comments:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I understand correctly that we just got a new rule: war is only allowed if we are able to get at least the half of the world behind us before declaring? That will add a little spice to the game! Please confirm or deny this rule cgannon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I re-read your rules. You only state that you need at least half of the civs next to you when at war. I read: you may first declare war and then get other nations to join. This will almost always work imho.

However, it seems that you meant the following: first check if you are able to get at least half the world behind you. If you got enough number, declare war and get the alliances...

This is something totaly different. The second is far more difficult than the first.

Rocky start, but didn't turn out too badly.

Preturn: Turn lux slider down to 20%. Hire a couple entertainers, fire a couple entertainers. Scientist moved to York. Sun Tzu in 5, HE in 8. 287gpt. Smolensk changed from temple to settler and rushed settler. Eridu changed from temple to spearman and rushed spearman. Canterbury changed from courthouse to knight. York changed from library to knight. Upgrade some warriors and spearmen. Wake up the MDI’s in Brighton and move them towards the war front.

IT: Greece declared war on us.

460 AD (1): Sign MA with Celts against Greece for furs, wm, 15 gpt, and 6g. Sign MA with Aztecs against Greece for feudalism. Sign MA with Babylon against Greece for currency. Sign MA with Spain against Greece for wm, 18gpt, and 3g. Brighton and Oxford switched to produce knights. Eridu spearman=>temple. Smolensk settler=>temple.

IT: Great, Aztecs and Greece duel it out a lot in our territory, lots of Greek units die. Forgot to move the workers on the gold hill near Greek territory so they were captured. :( They didn’t disband em so we’ll get em back eventually I guess.

470 AD (2): Warwick marketplace => knight. Ouch lost 2 veteran knights to an impi on desert.

IT: Our pikeman loses to Greek swordsman, Ulundi captured.

480 AD (3): Leeds marketplace=>knight. Reading temple=>knight.

490 AD (4): Dover knight=>knight. Somehow Greece got 3 hoplites in Ulundi, they must be rushing them or something because there was only 1 when they captured it. Knight army only takes 1 hp off hoplite, thank god it retreated at 1hp.

500 AD (5): Ok this is messed up. London was going to complete Sun Tzu but it rioted for no apparent reason. It didn’t grow, it’s stuck at size 12, I didn’t touch the lux slider, it didn’t have an entertainer originally, and there’s no war weariness. Whatever. Ulundi captured finally. Capture a Greek catapult too. Knight hurried in Brighton.

510 AD (6): Newcastle marketplace=>knight. Brighton knight=>knight. Norwich aqueduct=>marketplace. I can fire the entertainer in London without rioting again but I leave him just to be safe, this really doesn’t make any sense to me. Exeter founded on silks in NW.

IT: Zululand has knights now.

520 AD (7): Sun Tzu completed 2 turns later than it should have but at least we got it. Lots of knights finish. Wonder cascade to Leo’s mostly. Temple rushed in Exeter. Upgrade the remaining spearmen to pikes. Knight rushed in Brighton.

530 AD (8): Heroic Epic completed. Exeter temple=>harbor. Damn Odessa expanded as we finished our temple, bad flip chance. We’ll be capturing silks from Greece soon anyway. If I knew they were going to declare war I wouldn’t have bothered settling this. Athens completes Leonardo’s Workshop. Mycenae comletes Sistine Chapel. This will be ours easily. Temples hurried in Eridu and Smolensk. Cancel MA with Babylon against Zululand. Get invention, world map, and 54 gold from Zululand for peace. Research set to gunpowder at 70% (6t/-52gpt). Can trade gunpowder for education once we get it.

540 AD (9): Hlobane temple=>pikeman. Smolensk temple=>worker. Eridu temple=>worker. We capture Delphi. Harbor not needed in Exeter, cool. Hurry library instead. Fire a bunch of entertainers. :)

550 AD (10): Exeter library=>worker. We capture Pharsalos.

Diplomacy check reveals Greece has gunpowder. Celts don’t have it yet. Greek treasury is empty so they won’t be upgrading any hoplites anytime soon assuming they even have saltpeter. We have 27 knights now and lots more on the way. You might want to change some of those to pikemen or infrastructure Aggie. I was just trying to get mobilized for war with Greece. We should just destroy Greece now while we're already at war. War weariness will be minimal since they declared war on us.

Good luck.

Here's the save, CG6-550AD.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-550AD.zip).

Nice going Shillen ! Two Greek cities down and silks in range for 2 extra happy faces.

One thing about WW I have learned is that it does not initially manifest itself as unhappy citizens protesting the war - rather, formerly happy citizens become content and content citizens become unhappy. thus, cities riot even if the unhappy citizens don't yet say to stop the war.

Got it. I will play tomorrow.

Great job Shillen! We have got a lot of knights. This will be 10 turns of fun! Sistine in Mycenae is great! We can use a bit of happiness :)

EDIT: reaction to Shillen's comment below: I know that Sistine helps once we have cathedrals. But when we do own them, it's one of the best wonders imho. Leo is also great. And Athens is not far ;)

I already hooked up silks in the NW Jack. :) Not a stable city since it only occupies 6 tiles, but hopefully will hold up until we take the Greek silks.

You're probably right on the war weariness thing. I never checked other cities to see if they had any, but no other cities rioted.

Sistine's won't help us until we get cathedrals built though.

Oh I forgot to sell off barracks. Not a big deal but you can probably get about 50g from em.

War weariness can actually start off as negative ("war thirstiness") - declaring war - especially if someone else declares on you like Greece did - creates extra HAPPY faces for a while.

Those happy faces wear off after a number of turns, and that's when you can have cities rioting for no reason but without any war weariness showing up among the unhappy citizens.

We are building a lot of troops and we are aleready stronger than the Greeks! The science slider goes from 60 to 50%. Now we make money and still have gunpowder in 4. I kill the Greek knight east of Pharsalos.

IT: The Aztecs make us to renew our ROP. I decline. But he also has contact with the Carthaginians and Iroquois. I'm not going to buy the contact now, but wait until it's my turn... Spain makes peace with Greece... A Greek knight kills one of ours.

Turn 1 (560 AD) We get the contacts from the Aztecs plus w/m and 3 gold per turn for Theology. The Iroquois and Carthaginians are backward people... They live on a continent east of us. It looks like controlling our own continent is enough for domination. But we still have to meet 2 other civs. I establish embassies for 103 and 53 gpt. They pay a total of 56 gpt for ROP's. Carthage pays 3 pgt for... Literature.

War on Greece: Massive troop replacement. 5 knights move to Mycenae. An elite knight kills a Greek vet knight.

Turn 2 (570 AD) The Zulu pay us 4 gpt for the contacts.

War on Greeks: the siege of Mycanea has begun. One of our knights dies, two retreat and two Greek pikes a killed.

IT: The Greeks approach us with three Knights.

Turn 3 (580 AD) Birmingham: knight->knight. War weariness kicks in: I raise lux with 10%.

War on Greeks: We lose one knight, but we get:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6mycenaesistine.JPG
Three more knights are killed while getting rid of the Greek intruders.

IT: The Greeks want peace: no way! Then they send in wounded troops. That's a good sign.

Turn 4 (590 AD) We discover gunpowder. Start researching chemistry (in 10 at 54 gpt). We've got two sources of saltpeter! The Greeks don't have it. Swazi, Umtata: temple->courthouse. We buy education from the Celts for gunpowder. They have nothing else for us to buy. Same for the Greeks.

Hlobane: pike->library.

War on Greeks:
- During the siege of Eretria two knights are killed. Waiting for new troops there.
- Rhodes falls. One knight will be remembered.

Those hoplites are tough!

IT: The Babylon city of Alipa is razed by the Celts. They get a leader from it.

Turn 5 (600 AD) London: knight->library.

War on Greeks:
- Eretria falls. Our army was a big help here.
- Our troops move to Knossos and Sparta.

Turn 6 (610 AD) York: libary->knight. 7 more knights built. We lose one of our saltpeter sources. We have two others in our borders. Smolensk riots.

War on Greeks:
- Troop movement.
- more war weariness: lux to 40%

Turn 7 (620 AD)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6deposed.JPG
We lose a pike here...

- re-capture of Delphi: a knights dies. We haven't got the city back yet... One relined hoplite left
- Two knights die during the siege of Sparta. Here also one redlined hoplite left...
- near Knossos we see two knights die
- Our army besieges Argos.

IT: The siege of Knossos is halted. We have to retreat there.

Turn 8 (630 AD)

- Argos is captured with use of the army.
- We re-capture Delphi with no losses.
- The RNG is on my side this turn: get Sparta with no losses!

IT: The Celts want tribute. I decline. They back down.

Turn 9 (650 AD) The Celts have astronomy now. We can't afford it just yet.

IT: The Celts destroy the Babylonians

Turn 10 (660 AD)

- Knossos falls at last.

Our MA's vs Greece expire in one turn. I would suggest to at least capture Athens for Leo. The Celts have navigation to trade. We have Chemistry in 4.

650 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-650AD.SAV)

Sistine's, yay ! I think building cathedrals may actually make sense when we have peace.
Could we try to build Magellan's in Nottingham for our GA ?

Looks like everything is turnign around. Nice work. Now, who's up? :)

Sorry I've been delayed posting, I just got Wind Waker and work is crazy...:o

That would be T-Hawk (aren't you running this SG ? ;) )

What's Wind Waker ?

Originally posted by jack merchant
What's Wind Waker ?

The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. The latest Zelda game for Gamecube. Its simply amazing. I can't stop playing it. :D

Yeah, I'm up. Got it, though might not get to play it tonight.

Magellan's for Golden Age does sound like a good idea.

Inherited turn:

Why are we sitting on 2,000 gold in the treasury? Put it to use!

Research raised to 60% to get Chemistry in 3.

Temples rushed in Zimbabwe and Bapedi to greatly reduce flip risk.

Nottingham swapped to Palace to prebuild for Magellan's and our Golden Age.

I think we may have gone a bit too fast through Greece. There's a half-dozen cities with a number of resisters and at significant flip risk (Greek national culture more than doubles ours.) I'll push no farther than Athens and Corinth, which has gems that would be nice to acquire. Actually, Greece will cede Herakleia, which also controls gems, so I'll leave Corinth and apply all our force to capturing Athens.

=======

670 AD: Twelve knights are positioned to attack Athens next turn.

Mycenae flips back to Greece - losing us Sistine Chapel. :mad:

680 AD: I have only two knights that can reach Mycenae this turn, but fortunately the first one wins and we control Sistine again.

Athens has a total of six hoplites, but we lose only one knight in taking the city, thanks to four of them retreating.

It also worked out that I had five knights that couldn't reach Athens this turn, but they could reach Corinth, so we take that city too. I raze it, though, because it's under terrible cultural pressure.

For peace, Greece gives us Herakleia, his 61 gold, and 3/turn.

We have Chemistry, but it isn't enough to trade to Brennus for Astronomy (he wants 1000 gold in addition.) I order up 80% research to get us Metallurgy in 5 turns.

690 AD: Rush a settler in Athens to accomplish the dual purpose of reducing that city's Greek population and replacing Corinth. All the other Greek cities are also on starvation diets.

Zululand declares war on the Celts. :smoke: :goodjob:

700 AD: A colony gets us Gems hooked up, which is enough to drop lux to 10% and get Metallurgy a turn sooner.

710 AD: Cambridge founded to replace Corinth.

Brennus no longer has a monopoly on Astronomy. We trade Chemistry to Spain for it, and also to the Celts for 46/turn (he had more, so that was market value.)

720 AD: Metallurgy is in. Military Tradition ordered up.

730-740 AD: More starvation of Greek cities and lots of worker management.

750 AD: Military Tradition is due in one turn. I assume you guys know what to do now. :hammer: :hammer:

The Zulu can be eliminated in about four turns, and half of that will be moving our military back over from Greece to the west. After that, we can probably crush everybody else on our continent before anyone reaches the Industrial Age and riflemen. Can you guys win this thing before it even gets back around to me? :hammer:

Plus, whenever someone gets Navigation, swap Nottingham over to Magellan's and we'll have an instant Golden Age. :goodjob: Don't bother doing any more research ourselves; just keep the cash to rush cavalry and culture in captured cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/cg6-750ad.zip

Nice work T-Hawk. I don't know about winning in 40 turns, but...we'll see. :p

Anyway, I have it, I'll play tonight. I was ready to get skipped, but it ends up the huge project I had due tomorrow was postponed. Nice. :D

I'm having general PTW/computer trouble. I'll play tomorrow. :)

Here are my 10. The Zulu War II started, the Zulu War II finished. All in all, a fun, quick war. Here you are:

What's this? Someone left music on? NEVER! ;) Anyway, I'm kind of sad that we made peace with the Greeks - we had them on the ropes. However, I can see why. Its OK, we'll get them later. What is the goal of my administration? Shifting the army to the West, getting ready to take on the Zulu once and for all, and carry that over to the Celts. :D Lets see how it turns out, shall we?

[760 AD - Turn 1] Military Tradition discovered, Physics due in 6 turns. We have 28 Knights, and we need 560g to upgrade them all. That's not that bad of a price, we can get that in about 6 turns. I just have to shift our Knights to Barracks-ready cities. A loose settler is sent to fill in a whole in our empire. We have 2 Saltpeter hooked up and 1 that can be hooked up, so we have no problem there. The army shift is going to be tricky, because our frontier Greek cities are so close to their captial. However, with all of them starved to size 1, it shouldn't be that bad. The majority of our Knight army will be ready to be upgraded on the Zulu front in about 6 turns. Maybe 10 Knights were left on the Greek front for MP duty, and I hope to build about 10 Cavs (at least) before the war starts. That should be a good amount for a wasted civ.

(IT) Carthage offers us RoP for RoP. I can't squeeze more then his WM out of him (he's broke) so I deny the deal. It would be a waste. The Iroquois offer us RoP, and I deny again. I'm guessing this are renegoitions for a MA deal? ;)

[770 AD - Turn 2] Nothing much. Our Knights travel across our empire, a couple for Cavs ordered. +185/5 on Physics, and we should have sufficent funds to upgrade in about 2 turns. I play around with the Sci and the Lux slider, but we seem to be at a great position now, so I don't change it.

[780 AD - Turn 3] Gloucester founded, a filler city. Workers work. Knights continue to move. Overall, not much. :zzz:

[790 AD - Turn 4] A bunch of Cavs built. I stop our Knights off in Newcastle and upgrade 25 of them into Cavs. I figure it will save time in the long run, because Cavs are faster. :p

[800 AD - Turn 5] Cavs move about. We should have about 20 Cavs going into West Zululand and a Knight Army and a Cav or two taking the lone Zulu city in the east.

[810 AD - Turn 6] Cavs should be ready to move next turn. I'll make the MA run then.

(IT) :lol: I swear, the AI can read minds!!! The Zulu offer us an RoP and an MA against the Celts. Well, uh, no Shaka. Sorry, but I plan to raze your country. But...I'll take the Celts out for you later. :p

[820 AD - Turn 7] Physics->Magentism. More Cavs built. There are 7 civs besides the Zulu who we can get an MA from. Rounded up, that makes 4 MAs needed. I declare war on the Zulu, first off, to get cheaper MA prices. I first call up the Celts, because they are already at war, so they'll be cheap. I notice they have Banking, so our trade is MA and Banking for MA and Physics. One MA down. I don't want to get Greece, because they are a potential target, and I don't want anyone major to suck up some land. Russia is willing, but for a load of stuff. I try Spain. Willing, but for stuff. Everyone will only do it for a tech or money, etc, so I have my pick of everybody. Spain (2nd MA) gets Physics and Gems for an MA. The Aztecs (3rd) get Gunpowder. And finally, the Iroquois get Gunpowder for an MA. The coalition is complete. This is my second Zulu war, ironic isn't it? :p (Post Note: I would have rather had Russia then the Iroquois, because they are at least on the same island and can do [i]some damage, but they were really expensive - two techs and a lux.) With the coalition complete, troops move. A Knight and a Cav move within range of Iswandlhwana. A Cav kills an Archer on the West Front. I see the Celts are running all over the Zulu. Two Cavs fall short of Intombe (they were checking to scout) and four engage. They all win, and Intombe is captuured and kept. One Cav scouts around Isipez. We need to build a road to make that attack feasible, but the nearest workers are 4 turns away. (Damn, should of thought of this!!!) Its alright, it will just make that attack a two-turn event rather then one. Argh. A stack of Cavs are left outsie of Isipez.

(IT) No sight of Zulu counterattack. In fact, no sight of Zulu troop movements AT ALL.

[830 AD - Turn 8] From now on, all new Cav troops will be sent towards Greece. I want to finish them without taking our Cav army away from the Zulu/Celtic front. That, and the Zulu look so wasted that reinforcements won't be needed. Isandhlwana falls after being attacked by Knight Army and the Cav, with no losses. Isipez is auto-razed. We only had one wounded. Troops stop outside of Tugela. Troops pause to heal in Intombe.

[840 AD - Turn 9] WW hits Norwich. An Archer tries to ambush Isandhlwana, but a Cav takes it out first. Tugela falls easily, with no casualties. An amazing stat: So far we have lost ZERO troops. Pretty nice, eh? The wounded stop to rest in Tugela while 9 Cav go to take Ibabango. Its the last Zulu city within our reach - the only other is up by Russia. Ibabango falls with no casualties, we keep it and capture two workers. So, the 3 turn campaign is over. This has been one of the quickest and easiest wars in my Civving life: three turns of fighting, about 7 of preperation, with no casualities and only ONE unit redlined. Wow! I won't make peace with the Zulu, and I'll let Russia take out their last city. Now its just time to prepare for war against the Celts, or the Greacians, or both - but that is for the next player to decide. :)

[850 AD - Turn 10] Nothing. Notes: Uh...win! ;) Seriously, I think Greece should be a definite next target, and if they aren't enough tiles for Domination, then the Celts. But hold off on them until we are ready. Good luck!

And the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6_850AD.sav

Nice work cg!

The Greeks were our worst enemy and they are no threat anymore. So let's get the Celts now. Should be no problem!

Got it.

Inherited turn: Why are we researching magnetism ? Sure, it brings in our UU but we can only hope we can find something to attack it with. We could always have researched navigation on our own and got Magellan's. Furthermore, as T-Hawk pointed out, it doesn't make much sense to do research now. Even if we still make 178 gpt at 50% research, hurring cavs after one turn costs 250-300 gold, so we need more income to do the rushing of necessary units. I'll let the research finish but after that, it will be turned off.
I'd also have preferred not to have allied with the Celts against the Zulu as with our forces in Zululand, they are the obvious next target. I don't think we can get domination with anything less than Greece, Azteca and Celtia and probably Spain too. As it is, I'll have to wait with attacking the Celts until the last Zulu city is wiped out. Cavs are hurried in Eridu and Smolensk to speed up the process.
We have 3 turns left on our peace treaty with the Greeks and 7 turns on a deal where they are paying us 12 gpt for something (I can't tell what from the reports). I'll honour the peace treaty, but not the other deal. I'm sure the Greeks won't mind their payments being cut short - until they find out they themselves will be cut short themselves of course :lol:
Anyway, Oxford, Birmingham are swapped over to caravels, these will come in useful to bypass the jungles to either Azteca or Celtia. A musket is hurried in empty Eretria. Troops are reshuffled to garrison empty Warwick and Pharsalos. Sure, we are the most powerful civ, but please don't leave cities empty ! Empty cities are an open invitation to the AI to sneakattack us and we always want to go to war on our terms, not theirs.

860 AD (1) Hurry some temples

870 AD (2) The Spanish destroy the Zulu. All our alliances are now void and we can go after the Celts - or, well, they're still paying us 46 gpt for four turns. I'll keep them around until then to get more cavs in the area. Rush some more military.

IT Iro's start Copernicus, Celts started it last turn.

880 AD (3) Magnetism comes in, science turned off to net us +650 gpt. We declare war on the Greeks and sign in the Iro's, Carthaginians and the Russians. The Iro's get saltpeter (we aren't going to fight them anyway), the Carthaginians get engineering and the Russians get a ROP and some gold. Thessalonica and Thermopylae fall right away, only Ephesus is left now. Hurry a Man-O-War near where an Aztec galley is spotted. They'll be next (we can easily fight both the Aztecs and the Celts once our GA is triggered). A number of workers is moved (as in earlier turns) in the direction of Azteca to serve as Combat Engineers.

890 AD (4) A few cities riot because of the Greek war -weird, I thought WW dissipated after 20 turns ? Things return to normal when we kill of the Greeks though - Ephesus was their last city, and no settlers on boats, thank God. I hate those.
Now seems like a good time to go to war with the Aztecs - the declaration is made. The same team as assembled against the Greeks is drafted in again. Our hurried ManoWar destroys an Aztec galley and we get our GA (OK, so maybe researching magnetism was not such a bad idea after all) ! Our income jumps to +957 gpt.
2 cavs die against a pike and a spear (!) in Troy, even though the city wasn't walled as far as I could see. The Aztecs also have a 6hp Army with a longbow in there

900 AD (5) The Celtic deal has run out so it's time to take them on, too. War is honorably declared. Since I want useful alliances here, the Spanish and the Russians are drafted in along with the Carthaginians. We lose 3 cavs but Ngome, Zunguin and Umfolozi are taken and we kill 4 elite knights, among others. Our forces also move on Burdigala with workers on the way to connect its dyes. More workers move up to link up our road network to the path the Celts have cleared through the jungle.

IT we lose one cav to counterattack, the Celts lose a knight and a longbow.

910 AD (6) We capture Lindum at the cost of one cav. Burdigala still stands, the knight army moves up to put an end to that. On the Aztec front, we capture Troy losing another cav to a pike. It turns out that even an income of 900 gpt can be spent down quite easily :D

IT The Spanish want to trade us their tm for our tm and metallurgy. I wouldn't even trade it for mucho gpt as we don't want to speed anyone towards cavs.

920 AD (7) Reinforce some cities, gather troops for offensive. We capture Burdigala.

930 AD (8) We capture Marathon.

IT The Aztecs want to talk already :lol:

940 AD (9) Troops advance on Camulodonum. Dyes will be online next turn. Our combat engineers continue building roads to Lindum and Azteca proper.

IT On defense against a Celt longbow, we get the GL Boudicca ! RNG-wise, our cavs seem to defend better against Celtic longbows than Aztec ones.

950 AD (10) The Iroquis have discovered the remaining civs: Vikings and Arabs. I buy contact with both and incense for Chemistry and silks. This should inure us further against WW. The Vikes and the Arabs are pathetic; neither is out of the Ancient age yet. Looking at their territory, we will need to conquer our entire content for domination. I gift the Arabs contact with the Celts in order to allow them to declare war on them :)
Camulodonum, Cataractonium and Teotithuacan fall.

I left our GL Boudicca active; she is in Camulodonum with movement left, so you van use her this turn. We can use her for an army, a palace move if you can find a better site than London or you can rush Copernicus on the spot for denial and instant culture.
I have been rushing culture wherever necessary to bring us closer to domination and military elsewhere. Progress has been slower than hoped for, mainly due to bad terrain and lack of roads. Nearly every city is building military and should probably continue to do so. With most of our cities now defended, our income can be used to rush cavalry instead of defensive units (it may have been :smoke: to rush defensive units in the first place, but I seem to have a pathological distaste for undefended cities :D ) I also 'wasted' 4 turns by allowing the Celtic gpt payment to run out - on second thought, that perhaps wasn't necessary.
By and large though, this game is so won that it's almost not funny.

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6-950AD.zip)

Another great great round Jack :goodjob: I'm guessing that I will have to finish the job. That would be nice for a change :hammer:

But first: Shillen

20 turns ? mmm, maybe it's possible. I think we will need our entire continent and the logistics aren't great - but at least I didn't steal the glory from under your nose this time :blush:

One tip for you and/or Shillen: It may be a good idea to turn 'always build previously built unit' on - we basically need only cavalry from here on out.

I forgot to mention we have some ships that can ferry troops over to our northern holdings once Azteca is, erm, pacified :D Should be much faster than running them through all our lands...

edit - another oversight - we should probably be able to turn off the luxury tax - I forgot to do so.

Sorry about the research thing. I got Banking (which is what I was researching) in a trade and forgot to change it off the default. Caught up in the war fever. :p My bad. :o

Anyway, good work Jack. This game is in our hands, just time to finish it off.

Now, I need an idea for CG7!!! :lol:

Originally posted by cgannon64
Now, I need an idea for CG7!!! :lol:

Deity? We very easily beat emperor with a terrible civ...the English

Originally posted by Aggie


Deity? We very easily beat emperor with a terrible civ...the English

That would be a HUGE step up for me. I've never even tried a Diety game. But I