The game at hand, Vikings, normal sized world but only shared with the Celts, English, Germans, and Russians.

60% land, islands. All other climate conditions kept normal. No accelerated production, no domination victory, and if we are to win by military victory in wiping out all other civs, we must do so before 1500 AD. Regent level, Barbarians on the maximum level.

I'll take the first 20 turns, and the next 3 players to sign up will alternate 10 turn sections thereafter.

I'll sign people on in the first entry to this thread as they appear.

Turn order:

1)Antonius Block
2)Lord Mongoose
3)hotrod
4)meldor
-beware of gnomes
-civgeneral
Alternate:

1)

1.21 or 1.14?
If 1.21 I'm in...

1.21, just for you LordMongoose.

Thanks ^_^

Well, if my understanding is correct - 1.21 means no Europeans?

Antonius. I wish you good luck with this game. You should be able to do better than we did in CG4 ;)

I would have liked to join the game, but I'm a European.... 1.14 :cry:

@Aggie: What about making a European mirror of this one?
Two teams playing with the same settings but on different versions?

@Antonius: Sorry for this interuption on your tread - but this is done in honour to your idea - only problem is that we can't join because of the versions...

Originally posted by Datsekkar
@Aggie: What about making a European mirror of this one?
Two teams playing with the same settings but on different versions?

So, USA vs rest of the world? ;) I can imagine that we also have people from Asia and Australia still unpatched... Great idea. Just open a thread Datsekkar!

I'll gladly join the European team if enough players show an interest.

Edit: Is it possible to create the same map for both versions ? Otherwise comparisons would be pretty pointless.

Good luck with the game folks. You might get a little more interest if you bumped the difficulty up a notch.

Originally posted by jack merchant
I'll gladly join the European team if enough players show an interest.

Edit: Is it possible to create the same map for both versions ? Otherwise comparisons would be pretty pointless.



Yes, provided the 1.14 release creates the map and saves it before moving a single unit. 1.21 can read the older save files, but not the other way around.

I may be interested in a Monarch or Emperor game on the American team. I haven't had the opportunity to play the vikings.

Hotrod

I think it’s Antonius’ call to decide on the difficulty level…
Monarch is anyhow the highest for me, but if that attract more players…

If it is OK for Antonius, I can generate the map based on his settings, and post it for both teams. But I guess we have to set some rules against reading the treads of the other team etc. if we are to play with identical maps. Have there been any similar games? How did they handle this?

My count so far:

American
1)Antonius Block
2)Lord Mongoose
3)hotrod 0823 (?)
4)

European
1)Datsekkar
2)Aggie
3)Jack Merchant
4)

Anyone?

Datsekkar.

PAD1 and PAD2 were also similar games but then on different levels.
Monarch is OK. But I don't object playing regent and giving pointers if needed/wanted. If we play monarch and you feel a bit uncomfortable about it, then I suggest to let Jack Merchant or me play the first 20 turns.

But as you say: it's Antonius Block's call.

Originally posted by meldor
Good luck with the game folks. You might get a little more interest if you bumped the difficulty up a notch.

But what about all those who like to join a SG but still are not on the monarch/emperor/deity level? You have to have lower-level SG's as well...

Wow what a demanding bunch!

-Patch it, don't patch it, make a seperate version...

-put it on a higher level, keep it at a lower level...

Okay here is what I am going to do. I haven't patched my own version of the game yet. My idea in choosing regent level is that I've never played a satisfying naval campaign, even at regent, so I thought I might give it a shot with help from people...

I will bump it up to monarch, post the 4000 bc turn here, upgrade to the next patch, load the game in that one and post it again here, then play. Oh, but only after I've got four players lined up for the American/Australian game.

Originally posted by Datsekkar
I guess we have to set some rules against reading the treads of the other team etc. if we are to play with identical maps. Have there been any similar games? How did they handle this?In addition to PAD1, there was SUL5, and also rbd23, where three teams (a/b/c) played the same game. One rule you have to have is: No reading the other team's thread until you are done with your game (or at least to the point where you know the whole world ;) ).

Unfortunately, there is no good way to police this, except to rely on the honor of the players. Looking at the people who have expressed interest so far, I wouldn't be too worried. :D

I'm not sure yet if I have the time to commit to this, but if you want put me down as an alternate for the US team. ;)

That would be great Padma. Only one more commitment to go...

If it is going to be Monarch you guys are going to have to have some patience with me. I only recently won my first Regent game (Tiny map AW 4 civs, I was Iroquois) and am working on my second. So if you see some :smoke: don't hesitate to :spank:.

Originally posted by LordMongoose
If it is going to be Monarch you guys are going to have to have some patience with me. I only recently won my first Regent game (Tiny map AW 4 civs, I was Iroquois) and am working on my second. So if you see some :smoke: don't hesitate to :spank:.

Lord Mongoose. Of course I'm willing to help. I think it's natural that players with a bit more experience guide the ones that only recently made a step to a higher level. Whenever you have a question, feel free to aks and....oh wait, you're in the american team...:p

Seriously: if Padma joins, you have a good help.

Actually, I normally play Regent. But I figure I can hold my own for 10 turns at a time in Monarch. ;) I can't screw up *too* badly in that short a time. :lol:

I'll join the EU

Welcome Killer!

EDIT: PM-ed you for 1 vs 1

Aggie: when do we start our 1 vs 1? I lust for blood, especially as Shabbaman is going to beat me :(

I will NOT be able to play for at least 3 days, so I'd like to be at the end of the roster.

For the unpatched European set, here is the save on v. 1.14. One tile south of a coast, in the middle of some woodland, the viking heritage begins.

Sometime in the next few hours I will patch my game up, play twenty turns, and post the American version.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/EuroTrogdor.sav

Who wants to start off the European team ? I can play this evening if people are alright with it. Also, shall we take 40 or 20 turns to start ?

Thanks for setting this up, Antonius !

Is this the thread for the EU or for the American one?

Jack,

Please start :) I'm playing PBEM now against ERIKK... I would suggest 20 turns for the first player and then 10 turns each.

Originally posted by LordMongoose
Is this the thread for the EU or for the American one?

Only Antonius knows ;) Are we going to create two seperate threads, apart from this one?

I'll start a separate thread for the European game - playing now.

Who's the third member of the American team?

Hotrod and Padma expressed an interest, so you should have 4 members.

I'm in if Antionuis will have me ;)

print.voice(Mr Burns)=excellent. Programming class is rubbing off on me...
Antonius, what's the story on Team USA?

Yes, to everyone. First turn is 20 rounds, subsequent terms are 10 rounds.

All victory conditions are on, 60% land, archipelago, raging barbarians.

If you want to win with conquest we should try to get it done before 1500.

If any player leads a massive fleet of galleys filled berserkers and captures and holds two cities via amphibious assault, that player adds :viking: to their signature forever and is declared official Viking.

This thread is for the American game, the Europeans can start another thread but let's not cross up our threads till we have a whole world map.

I will now patch the game and play the first 20 turns for the American team aka the Coalition of the Willing.

Okay, here is the timeline. If someone wants to take a screenshot and post it you are welcome, I am software deficient for that purpose.

1 4000 BC Scout goes NW, W to mountain view, including grapes and more incense and a village.
Worker goes on incense hill, sees 2 more incense and village. Settler goes NE into woods on dolphin harbor.

2 3950 BC Worker gets "bronze working" from hut. Scout gets chinzty map of the region whicih includes southern desert from his hut. Settler founds Trogdor. Work begins on warrior.
-Research on ceremonial burial begun.
(I chose it because I expected to encounter more huts and ceremonial burial is the cheapest tech).

3 3900 BC Worker returns to incense hill, scout crosses valley of the vines.

4 3850 BC Scout notices English colored border in southern desert. Worker begins incense harvester's road.

5 3800 BC Trading bronze working and warrior code for alphabet and 10 gold from English warrior.
Scout reveals se coast vinyards.

6 3750 BC Scout completes view of East Coast.

7 3700 BC Work begun on granary. Warrior complete, moves to look at NE coast view.

8 3650 BC Scout gets view of London, Warrior rounds out tour of NE coast.

9 3600 BC Scout goes south. Warrior faces up bold British warrior.

10 3550 BC Guard warrior recalled to city, renamed Trogdor First Home Guard.

11 3500 BC Scout determines southern layout of continent, views another island across the southern strait.

12 3450 BC The next group of turns
13 3400 BC was spent with the worker racing ahead of English warrior and scout to claim hut...
14 3350 BC
15 3300 BC
16 3250 BC
17 3200 BC Worker one move from the hut...
18 3150 BC Worker takes hut, gains map of northern peninsula.
Scout completes deshadowing of continent in the west.

19 3100 BC Scout and warrior moving towards the city.

20 3050 BC the same.

Notes from reign: 1) Ceremonial burial it is, but we should make a bee line towards mapmaking once we get clear of c.b. 2) Let the granary finish please in Trogdor. Then it is up to you, if you want to build a spearman or two or gamble on an unprotected settler.

One part of my foreign policy idea is clear: we let England build another city or two, and we take them out with extreme predujice. We need about 4 towns- the next one should be put down in the southeast grape country to control that resource early. One could go north of Trogdor, another to the south west.

I like improvements like barracks, temple, but granary is most important at this stage. I'd love to get a wonder but realistically, this is monarch...

:eek:

Here is the upload for the 1.21 game, can someone make a screen shot of the turn it is at?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/AmeriTrogdor.sav

Antonius: Glad to see you've seen the light with building an early granary :)

-Sirp.

Antonius: sounds like a good start can you post a set roster for the american team? I can also post a screenie later today for us to get a lay of the land and think about city placement. As far as wonders perhaps a bee-line to Maps is in order and try for the Great lighthouse in one of our early cities as the capital will be on settler duty soon enough.

Hotrod

Is there still room for me (european;) )?

Stapel

Lord Mongoose should go next, then Hotrod, then Padma (we hope) or whoever jumps in late or back to me I guess.

Stapel, you have to find the Euro thread to see if you have a chance to get in on this one; I ain't looking at the Euro thread just yet so perhaps an onlooker could give you the link...

As you moved it up to Monarch at my suggestion, if you need another player, I would be glad to join.

Wonders on Monarch are easy to get. You just need to decide which ones you want and work for them. At this level and above, pre-builds are a must to keep the AI from taking it all with cascades.

Well meldor, if Lord Mongoose does not respond to this thread by the time you are ready to knock off for the evening, play the turn and chronicle it and post it and Lord Mongoose will have to go after you. Protect the granary, we are adopting a muscular settlement strategy and let the English do a bit of the landscaping for us.

Welcome meldor! :D

I appreciate the extra player, especially at this time. As I originally indicated, I am still not sure if I can fit in the time for this. I *do* know, however, that I can't play at all until after this coming weekend, so I will be glad to stay as an alternate, for now.

Suggestion: ask a moderator (easy since you have Padma in your team) to rename your thread with "US team" apparent.

OK, if LordMongoose doesn't post before I finish LK42, I will knock this one out. Thanks for having me.

Padma- could you rename our thread with "US team" apparent?

Done. :D --Padma

"Got it."

Oops, guess I don't got it. File server is going crazy. Antonius, could you email me the save?

OK, scratch all that above stuff. File server finally >.< decided to work, and I'm playing now. You'll get the report and a proposed dotmap in an hour or so.

Fairly boring ten turns, but as they were my first on Monarch, I consider it a success :) .

IT: Everything seems fine, I hit next turn.
1 3000 BC: Move units, Trogdor grows.
2 2950 BC: Scout spots a coastal bridge to next island to east. No culture boundaries in view. English warrior is acting suspiciously....
3 2900 BC: English warrior is next to Trogdor. I move worker to mountain instead of bg, just in case... English settler moving up to claim wines in SE. Damn.
4 2850 BC: We're safe, Liz isn't looking to fight us.
5 2800 BC: Finish Ceremonial Burial. Since at current (50%) sci we can't get writing in less than 40 turns, I dial back sci to 20% for an extra gpt. Worker begins mining roaded bg. I asked Liz what she wants for wheel, it's 55 g, 3 gpt, and Ceremonial Burial. I decline.
6 2750 BC: After granary finishes, I consider MMing Trogdor for max shields, but figure that we'll get the settler about the same time once we grow in a few turns, so I decide not to.
7-9 2710-2630 BC: Nothing
10 2590 BC: We have a scout watching English borders for any settler activity, our bg mine will finish next turn, and Trogdor grows in 2. All in all, not bad.

Since CivFanatics uploads server was being b****y and not working, I used some free webspace to host the image and save.
Here is my proposed aggressive settling dotmap:
http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/ryewety/islandshot.jpg

Besides being a nice shot of our whole island, this also outlines my proposed plan. Red dot is most crucial. We need to grab the last wines before Liz does. It will become a good commerce city later on. Blue dot is meant to curtain English expansion and is a rather risky gambit hoping that Liz will grab cattle and gold before desert (wouldn't you?). Green and yellow just fill in our backlands. This gives us five cities and Liz three. I believe we should go for a farmer's gambit, get some warriors afterwards, then trade for IW and steamroll Liz before she gets off the island.

Here's the save: The Save (http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/ryewety/ameritrogdor2590bc.sav)

Am I to assume I am up next?

Sure.
And to all lurkers and sg members who aren't playing anytime soon:
Could you tell me if there's any weed with my plans or dotmap? Like I said, this is my first Monarch game, so I need to know if I'm an idiot or a Sirian/Sullla in training. ;)

Your dot map rocks.

Hot Damn!!! Thanks, that just made my day :D.

Guess that means I'm a Sirian-in-training :hammer:.

I would only have two suggestions for the dot map.

1) The city farthest north would be better off of the hill. We are going to need all the shields we can get.

2) I would put the southern most city next to the fresh water. It is going to overlap with the other cities so it might as well be next to the water. It can still grab a hill and get a plains square or two as well.

My thoughts:
1) OK, you're right, I wasn't thinking :). Good catch meldor.
2) Liz may not be very aggressive but we don't want to put a city on her cultural border! It's bad enough to piss her off where it is. However, if we can defend it (unlikely) and are ready to do combat with Liz, go for it. It's your call, meldor. All I insist is that blue dot go 1 south and NOT SE. Too much overlap SE. We probably won't grab that site anyway, but whatever.

I went ahead and did this one first, before I depatched for LK42.

2590 BC (Pre-turn)
Ouch, we have no improved tiles! We are thirty turns into the game and we should have at least 2 fully improved tiles by now. That cost us time on the grainary and on our settlers to come. Nothing to be done about it now.
(I) Warrior moves back into York.

2550 BC (1)
We have a mine. Settler drops from due in 4 to due in three. Worker moves to BG in the west as this will give the settler one more road to travel on.
(I) Nada

2510 BC (2)
Worker starts a road. Settler is still due in two but we pick up four gold for two shields that would have been wasted.
(I) Nothing

2470 BC (3)
Worker works, Settler due this interturn.
(I) Finish settler, go with worker next. We are way behind in tile improvement.

2430 BC (4)
Settler moves out. Worker begins our second mine.
(I) Not much.

2390 BC (5)
Settler movement.
(I) Zippo.

2350 BC (6)
Settler reaches wine spot.
(I) Worker finishes and I start a spear. This is for two things. MP duty and to let the city grow.

2310 BC (7)
Bergen is founded on the wines and set to build a warrior.
(I) Zilch.

2270 BC (8)
Second worker goes to work on third BG.
(I) Not a peep.

2230 BC (9)
Watch workers work.
(I) Barbarian appears from the north.

2190 BC (10)
Move warrior off of MP duty to protect worker.
(I) Barbarian retreats.

2150 BC (11)
Move warrior north to follow the barb.

I took one extra turn to get us to even numbers. It is customary for the first person to play to actually go one extra turn so the dates we stop on will either be 100s or 50s. Makes it easier to keep track of. We have a spear due in two in Trogdor and a warrior due in 2 in Bergen. Once the warrior is built in Bergen, it can switch to a grass and start growing. We should be able to start on settlers once the spear is built.

Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/ameritrogdor2150bc.zip)

I would not worry about the city to the south yet anyway. We can put the two cities in to the north and then archer rush Lizzie's cities. I would raze York and move it to get the two extra BG covered. London would be a toss up. At most Lizzie will have 4 cities and one of those in the desert. If we wait for barracks we can begin attacking with 5-6 archers. I would go without them and nail her with about 10. She won't stand a chance. When Bergan finishes its warrior for MP start on Archers. This is a warmongers opinion though.

if the spot is still open, i would love to join. i accidently joined the european team, and then found out about the american one. i cant play till friday though, but after that, i will have lots of free time. im hoping that since we all will be in generally the same time zone that this will go relativley quickly

I have grabbed the game and realize that I am unexpectedly up or near up in 4 games at once. This is still early and at 1.21 so it gets my first shot.

beware of gnomes you can indeed get into this game, take the turn just before my next turn.

BBB US

2150 BC (0): Quick diplo check and Lizzy has the wheel, she wants all our gold and CB for it. NO dice.

2110 BC (1): Spear completed in Trogdor, start barracks due in 3 on max shields. Bergen builds warrior starts archer. Move North warrior to the hill to see on coming barbs.

2070 BC (2): 2 Barbs are visible to the north. Lizzy has writing and the wheel and wants top dollar for either of them - no deals.

Inbetween: Lizzy demands CB and I refuse. This may have been unwise but she refused.

2030 BC (3): Nothing - some barb movement.

1990 BC (4): More barb movement. Trogdor builds barracks start archer.

1950 BC (5): Kill one barb on the way to take out our worker.

1910 BC (6): Worker completed the mine near our capital and moves east. Needed protection from our spear so the capital is left unguarded but an archer is due next turn. With 2 lux no lux tax is needed to maintain the peace. MM to give Bonus grass to Bergen.

1870 BC (7): Our first vet archer is produced, start another. Going East looking for the barb camp. Mines at Bergen are completed give BG back to Trogdor.

1830 BC (8): Warrior to the North is moving toward the barb camp. Archer is heading to the east coast and another suspected barb camp.

1790 BC (9): archer arrives at where i thought the camp was but England got there first. Another camp appears right next to our scout. Sending him home.

1750 BC (10): Trogdor builds archer starts another. Sending archer to the southern barb camp in the desert. Disperse a barb camp to the North. After much thought decide to buy the wheel from Lizzy for 90 gold and CB. We still have 90 gold in the bank and are getting 5 per turn. There are 2 horses on the island and neither are hooked up. 1 is inside of Bergen after expansion the
second to the North.

Current Info: Lizzy is up by at least Writing, and has 3 cities. May settle 1 more in the desert before we are ready for war. The territory to the north can now be settled as the barb hut has been dispatched. Trogdor can be switched to settler and MM to grow and complete in 4 more turns or left on archer and build archers 1 every 3 turns. With 2 lux the capital can grow 1 more time before we need more MP or a temple to maintain the peace.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/ameritrogdor1750bc.zip


[edit] One more thing to remember is to share the bonus grass between the Trogdor and Bergen. As Trogdor is close to finishing an archer switch off the shared tile and give it to Bergen. It will help if even done for only 1 turn.

Great going, we are now pumping vet archers and Lizzie has no horses. She will be lucky to get iron as well. We will have her before then. It maybe worth it to keep her in one city (non-coastal) and take all her tech for peace, then wipe her after 20 turns.

Who plays now?

Can I claim a turn if I am awake in an hour? Will someone let Padma or bewareofgnomes cut in if they miss a turn now?

Looks like this is the play order that we have started already;

Antonius Black
LordMong...
Meldor
Hotrod
Padma <--- playing now
Bewareofgnomes (on deck)

I would caution you on jumbling the order around too much. People my loose track and then start dropping. It is good that we have a quick start but once turns start taking longer and they will with all islands, then it I think it would be best to keep the order constant for the most part. It may be a few days or longer before a player gets the game back. Typical is a 24 hours for a player to grab the game and 48 hours to post the report. Most times in the early rounds that time period will be much much shorter. Later games it could get extended to a few days for as little as 5 turns.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
I lust for blood, especially as Shabbaman is going to beat me :(


What's that? He's covering his ass already?

:D

Good luck Padma!

Note: I am alternate only - if someone must drop out! I cannot possibly play at all before next week.

Please - have bewareofgnomes go next! :D

Ok then... Good Luck bewareofgnomes :goodjob:

Actually, now that I think about it, bewareofgnomes can't play until Friday, according to him. So we have a choice: wait for him to play and post, or skip to Antonius Block. I think we should wait, as Antonius is up in the Crazy Celts game. What do they think? *turns to Antonius and bewareofgnomes*

I can wait in this game. Thanks for reminding me about the Celts game, I totally forgot...

yup, i will definatleyget it tommorrow. if my froend doesnt find his copy for me to install, then i will go and buy it. 3 weeks without it is far too long.

ok, ive "got it" will play and post tonihgt

:cry: :cry: :aargh: MY GODDAMNED COMPUTER WONT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. IF ITS NOT ONE THING ITS ANOTHER!!!! im getting a new comp *hopefully* by early next week. i cant play on my old P.O.S. it freezes all the godamned time. will let u know when i get comp. until then, skip me.

bewareofgnomes: I feel your pain. The exact same thing happened to me the night before a Warcraft III tourney.
Antonius, you're up.

I pm'd hotrod to have him email the turn, my computer won't download it in either IE or netscape. I see it is a zip file currently, maybe hotrod you could save it again not as a zip as I had no problem with the crazy celts game download...

I sent the email as a .sav file

My suggestion: build a few more archers and take down England NOW

That is the plan. I've got the save and am going ahead this afternoon.

The Second Rule of the Lawgiver

1. 1725 BC Our first palace build is offered, and I chose the balustrades. Our warrior is made elite during combat with barbarians. Liz wants our forces out of her border, we tell her we will comply (it was a non-demand).

2. 1700 BC Our lone scout is jumped by Marcomanni warriors. An archer is nearby about to dispense justice on the hut. Why wasn't that scout eaten for shields?

3. 1675 BC Trogdor Completes an archer, begins a spearman. The Marcomanni village is set on fire by our archers, who later claim 25 gold from a secret cache under the remains of the butchery.

4. 1650 BC Bergen archer complete, and work begun on a settler. An armed task force of archers and a warrior are set to rally on the hill two spaces North West of York.

5. 1625 BC British build the town of Hastings, flush on the SE coast bordering Trogdor. British sell us writing at 6 gold per turn plus 80 gold lump sum. This was an incredible bargain down from an initial plan that bankrupted us. Our sites are set on mapmaking.

6. 1600 Workers reassigned to work together to build a road to horses. An awesome host is convened above York.

7. 1575 BC All forces are gathered at York, 1 spearman, 1 elite warrior, 3 veteran archers, and 1 regular archer.

8. 1550 BC The host moves to the Westhill Suburb of York. Workers move onto the horse space south of Bergen. War is declared in the off turn. The archer at Trogdor is finished, a spearman begun.

9. 1525 BC York's one spearman kills 3 archers and 1 elite warrior before succumbing to the last archer, who takes York. 26 gold are scored from their treasury, and the city is burned to the ground. Disorder in distant Trogdor is quelled by raising the entertainment expenditure in a lavish banquet.

10. 1500 BC The archer kills a British warrior, captures a settler (aka two workers: "Horse colony" and "irrigation drone". Our influence grows, as we approach the destruction or better, capture by treaty, of Hastings.

Ah, here is the link.

I accidentally brought us through the offturn of 1575.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/ameritrogdor1475BC.sav

Got it. That's OK, I'll just play 9.

I mean, you have all of 1575 ahead of you, I just watched the movie between turns.

These turns are preparation for meldor to attack with the mini-SOD I assembled ever-so-kindly for him. I pillaged London a bit, but mostly spent production 1) getting military stuff and 2) well, more military stuff :D.

1 1475 BC: Crush Hastings, archer takes 1 damage and promotes to elite.
2 1450 BC: Trogdor spear->archer. English worker colonizes roaded horses.
3 1425 BC: Barb pillages near Trogdor :mad:.
4 1400 BC: Vet spear from Trogdor fortifies on horse colony. Other vet spear in field is attacked by archer and wins with 2 hp left. Elite archer w/ 4 hp is killed by regular w/ 2. Grrrrr. :wallbash: Stupid RNG. Pillaging barb kills itself on Trogdor's spear. Trogdor archer->archer. I'm gonna assemble a SOD for meldor to play with on the horse colony.
5 1375 BC: Nothing
6 1350 BC: Vet spear pillages London. IN YOUR FACE LIZZY!!!
7 1325 BC: Nothing
8 1300 BC: Spear pillages London again, gets attacked by archer, wins with 1 hp left. We're pushing our luck...
9 1275 BC: Pushed it a bit too far. Spear dies to warrior. Bergen archer->spear.
10 1250 BC: Trogdor has archer in 1, Bergen spear in 7. Colony spear is going with the archers to make a 4 archer 1 spear all vet mini SOD. Either in meldor or hotrod's turn we'll be :king:. Somewhere along the line I built a barracks in Bergen instead of a settler (?), which is why the archer is vet. The SOD units have movement left, so meldor, you really have 11 turns of military activity, not just 10. Once we wipe out Liz and burn her cities to the ground, I'll make a dotmap for our island. I like making dotmaps.
Save: The Save (http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/ryewety/ameritrogdor1250bc.sav)

It appear our luck with the RNG has been rough, maybe we are in store for some good runs.

As far as the scout I considered disbanding it but figured galleys will be right around the corner and he could hold on for scouting our neighboring islands.

i will have acces to a computer tonight that works!!!!!! for tonight only. i was wondering if i could skip the next player.

Originally posted by Antonius Block
5. 1625 BC ...British sell us writing at 6 gold per turn plus 80 gold lump sum....

9. 1525 BC York's one spearman kills 3 archers and 1 elite warrior before succumbing to the last archer, who takes York.We did not wait the 20 turns after this deal. That is very bad for our reputation. We must now eliminate the English before they make contact with anyone else.

If they make contact with someone else it will block us from being able to do any gpt deals with amyone for a long time, and everything will cost us a lot more.

BTW, I have it.

Wow, I had no idea I was burning our bridges by attacking England- I thought I was just saving our gold. Well, let's crush them then. Might makes right as they say.

good luck meldor!

meldor, when do u plan to be finished? if u can have it posted bt tonight, can i go after you?

At this point in the game meldors turn should turn around pretty quickly. BWG I have no problem if you jump in ahead of me.

1250 BC (Pre-turn)
We only have two cities still? We have two barb camps as well. Bergen is working two unimproved tiles while all three of our workers mine a mountain that can't be used for growth. Cancel mountain action . Units towards London.
(I) Trogdor finishes an archer and starts a settler.

1225 BC (1)
The new archer starts north to pave the way for the settler.
(I) Two warriors come out of London.

1200 BC (2)
Kill the two warriors but lose one archer.
(I) Three archers come out of London.

1175 BC (3)
Drop back to allow archers to heal.
(I) The english archer move up.

1150 BC (4)
Kill one archer, the spear fortifies.
(I) The two remaining archer move to go past us. Trogdor finishes its settler and starts an archer.

1125 BC (5)
Settler moves north. Swap Trogdor's spear for Bergen's warrior. Kill one more of the archers but we lose another as well.
(I) Zippo.

1100 BC (6)
Dispatch a second barb in the north. The English archer now is going after the barbs in the south.
(I)English archer kills a barb. Bergen builds an srcher and starts another.

1075 BC (7)
The new archer kills a barb threatening our workers. The settler is about in place.
(I) English archer heads towards our workers.

1050 BC (8)
Kill barb in the north, settler arrive in position. Bergen archer rests and heals while keeping close to the workers. We move our two archers and spear towards London.
(I) An archer moves out of London, the other archer moves to help out. Trogdor produces an archer and starts a settler. The settler is due in five and Trogdor will grow in five.

1025 BC (9)
Copenhagen is built in the north were it can reach one extra incense hill to the south west. It starts a worker. The archer to the north disperses the barb camp. Make peace with Lizzie for Iron Working and the city of Nottingham. There is only one iron on the whole island. I would suggest our next settler goes and gets it. Now we know why York was put where it was.
(I) Archer to the north kills off one more barb.

1000 BC (10)
Archers moving south.

We can either keep the peace with Lizzie for the 20 turns or we can keep it longe enough to get out two settlers and claim the last good spots on the island. We do need to whack Lizzie before she can rat us out. I would suggest sooner than later.

Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/ameritrogdor1000bc.zip)

Nice posting, good organization, Meldor.

Is it my turn?

Not yet Antonius ;)

I got it and will have it back shortly

Hotrod

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor1000bc.zip

Here is the correct save (They started Uploads 4 ;))

1000 BC (0): Just Made peace with Lizzy and I have all these units ready to go. HMMM what to do. Gather up some forces and make sure all she has when the time comes is London. Hire a scientist in Norwich and turn research to 0%.

975 BC (1): Move stack to the Hills North of London to see everything in the area. Workers complete Mines move to road toward our next city in the area where York used to be.

950 BC (2): Bergen builds archer starts settler.

925 BC (3): Nothing

900 BC (4): Trogdor builds settler starts another, grows in 5 settler in 5. Bergen MM to grow in 5 settler in 5.

875 BC (5): Moving the settler toward our new city location.

850 BC (6): ZZZZZ more of the same.

825 BC (7): zzzzz

800 BC (8): Considering how small the island is and how much crappy land there is I decide that maybe York isn't soo bad a placement. Settler is in postion for next turn to be founded. That allows another city on the Ruin site.

775 BC (9): Trogdor builds a settler starts a spear. Bergen builds a settler starts a temple but I recommend that it be changed to galley as soon as Map making comes in it is due in 6 turns. Copenhagen builds a worker starts another. Germany has built the Oracle. Founded Reykjavik on the old York site. Start barracks. Bergen settler is heading for the last Northern city site, the Trogdor settler is heading to the English ruins.

750 BC (10): More settler movement. Put Nottingham citizen back to work and fire the Scientist, up research to 10% and only 5 turns remain on Map making. Settler to the east is one turn from city location and the second settler has a long way to travel.


There is still 9 turns left on the peace treaty and thought is best to keep the peace deal intact and not have a phony peace deal. We are already dastardly by breaking our 20 turns of gold deal no need to get exploitive.

Overall a quiet round. Recommend using the next nine turns to build up more archers and declare war then move into English territory. I realize that without being on the coast England will have zero chance of getting galleys out but the others may find us sooner or later.

I would stick with getting galleys with settlers and scouts on them as soon as they are available our island is not great and looks like there is some green lands to the south and some lands to the west and the east reachable by galley.

here is the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor750bc.sav

hotrod, can i go after you?

I think you are up bewareofgnomes post your got it an go

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/bbbbdots.JPG

my proposed dots following london removal!

looks good. i will play and post within 2 hours.
btw i "got it"

Whew!

ok, its finished. i dont know how i did, but whatever. it was largely uneventful.

Preturn - notta

Turn 1 – Nottingham warrior>spearmen

Turn 2 –Oslo founded

Turn 3 –Togdor spearmen>spearmen

Turn 4 –set science to 70% Lit due in 19

Turn 5 –start moving SoD

Turn 6 -notta

Turn 7 –Togdor archer<archer

Turn 8 -notta

Turn 9 –notta

Turn 10 –Declare war against after not moving SoD. Vet spear vs reg, archer. Win with 1 hp loss. Sit back and wait for counter attack.

You should upload the save so Antionus can grab the game.

Didn't expect much action on your turns either. Did you start any galleys??

Hotrod

sorry abput not posting the save :smoke:
no galleys built as it looks a though England has got a pretty gppd army

the game

Wrong save Beware ;) 750 was the end of my turns.

So that isn't the right save?

Am I still waiting?

nope, i just overwrote the save. yes im that lazy. if it doesnt work, then u will have to skip me because i was over at a friends house.

Okay, er, um, uh, this is my turn.

510 BC- before my turn starts I reanimate all of the archers and spearmen I see sitting around on fortified, moving them down to the square above London after capturing a spearman there.

1. 490 BC- Convoy of archers moving south on London.

Stockholm founded on the spot NW of London where the settler stood, warrior started there. Capture units on the hill west of Oslo: 1 archer dies taking out an archer and a spearman. The two captured workers are set to build a road on the spot.

2-470 BC Repositioning, another spearman in London killed by our archers. Disorder in Trogdor.

3-450 BC Ozlo and Rekjavik finish archer and spearmen after off turn force build. Both are set to give archers.
Another spearmen is killed in London. Our Bergen spearman attacks a spearman poised to cut off our horse roads, he dies, but the one hit point archer who comes after him kills the spearman.
Revenue is increased in the entertainment sector to cure happiness woes.

4. 430 BC - Another spearman is killed in london. Trogdor finishes a spearman, and temple is begun.

5. 410 BC- The fall of London and the Destruction of the English is complete. London is captured, 135 gold is ours. Work in London started on the Forbidden Palace though I am sure you may wish to change that first to something more useful. Workers scurry to build roads. We are allowed to improve our palace to the windows level.

6. 390 BC- workers bunched together in road crews. Archers redistributed across the island for barb/invader support. Bergen produces a spearman and it is my pleasure to set the city to build a galley- exploration is imperative until we make more contacts, we dare not fall further behind than we likely already are!

7. 370 BC- road work.

8. 350 BC - road work. Barbarian threat from the north tip. Nottingham finishes spearman, harbor chosen for next build.

9. 330 BC- Literature acquired, philosophy begun.

10. 310 BC- Trogdor temple done, library begun. Oslo archer done, galley begun. Stockholm warrior done, temple begun.

I think we are moving into a phase when 1) workers can complete a road system, 2) cities can get improved on massively- harbors and temples are musts, as are barracks. You decide if you want to "waste" time building the Great Library. In my opinion we need to start thinking now about a fleet of veteran galleys to put our one day berserks in.

here is the save...

If it is my turn, I got it.
Will play and post tomorrow (sorry, I got homework :( )
Would people give me ideas for what is immediately necessary? I seem to have drawn the straw for "post-war cleanup because you sucked so BAD leading us in the war!" Or mebbe its just luck and math ;). Either way, I would welcome suggestions.

I think it is your turn. I think a good goal might be to get two galleys built, get a spearman and a settler in one and two archers in the other. Get roads built and improvement on every square on the mainland. Get exploring.

just opened the save to have a look and have a couple things.

Irrigation around London must be changed to mines and the mine on the cow must go to irrigation! This has to be a priority, irrigation of all those plains means nothing for a shield poor town under despotism. Use the cow food bonuses and irrigate to get 3 foods.

Coppenehagen has a mined grass without roads and roads without mines. Any time you mine and leave without a road wastes valueable worker turns. Time that could be spent on other improvements.

There is another city spot to the north but no settlers available, get one up there soon! I would also change Copenhagen from spear to a galley. A regular spear is not worth it. There is no immediate threats and no need for MP duty. If you build military try to use towns with barracks.

Trogdor may be a good candidate for the Great Lighthouse it can be completed in 30 turns and if more tiles are improved maybe even quicker.

Any galleys we build should have a scout or maybe even a settler with a spear escort.

Hotrod

We need to get galleys with settler/spear pairs to the two islands that are visible. We should also try and get contact with all other Cvis ASAP. Not that England is gone and can't rat us out it will drop the cost of our research big time.

Also, please do not violate anymore 20 turn deals. If you are going to go to war, just pay cash for the tech and no gpt.

Sorry meldor, I didn't know that was how it worked- but no wonder my AI opponents are always furious at me, the buy now, don't pay later scheme is a regular member of my arsenal. It is a great piece of luck that you knew about it and that we were able to decontaminate our island before the disease of mistrust spread...

The same goes for violation of ROP deals. If you declare war by moving units into territory before war is declare you are consider to have violated a ROP. It goes without saying that if you have a ROP and declare war you are in danager of exploiting the ROP or ROP abuse for dislike of the more descriptive term others use.

You would also break 20 turn lux deals if you pillage your own roads or sell of harbors. All these things will count against you and make trading difficult if not impossible. We felt the pains of a broken 20 turn deal in HOT2 all the way through the game. Eventually gpt deals were possible but they were expensive.

Wow. Eventful turns. I played twelve to bring us up to 50 bc, and left some units with movement to let whoever's next have some decision over our agenda. Meldor is up, right?

IT: Switch Copenhagen to Galley, Bergen to settler, Reykjavik to worker and Trogdor to harbor.

1. Reykjavik worker->harbor. Worker goes to join London task force. Wipe out barbs.

2. Bergen settler->harbor.

3. Trogdor harbor->galley.

4. We discover masonry. Code of Laws in 14.

5. Copenhagen Galley->scout.

6. Trogdor Galley->Settler.

7. Island discovered! No borders in sight. Russia builds Great Lighthouse. Damn.

8. WEst Isle is really small. Founded Birka in north, temple started. Oslo galler->harbor.

9. I delay sending off new galley so it can pick up the settler and scout. Tropical Island in view. Jungle. Ugh. Worth colonizing anyway, as no borders are in sight. Trogdor settler->settler. Copenhagen Scout->Harbor.

10. Border in sight!

11. Galley exploring West Isle dies. I have no idea why, but then I see I ended its turn in a sea square! :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:. Sorry. Bergen harbor->galley.

12. Contact Russia. Wow. they're up 5 techs and two contacts. I trade WM and 489 gold for contact w/ Celts and Germans plus their WM. Great Library is looking really good right now.

The save: The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor50bc.sav)

Good job LordMongoose, I'm pleased with several aspects of your turn. Don't sweat losing the galley (who was in it?) as I am always a "galley gambler" willing to lose a few trying to jump from coast to coast.

Things that are encouraging: 1) It does seem like we are in good stead with technology level and we have the option to build the great library still out there. I'm noncomittal about it though as I have been burned on it so many times that half the time I no longer try. 2)We have nice contact with the world now, have some sense of how it is developing. Remember, I put fewer than the max civs in because I knew we'd be island hopping and I wanted us to have room to grow.

The next phase should include creating our industrial core, using marginal cities to pop out settlers and put them on boats to overseas locations, where we would consider popping harbors and barracks before growing "worker farms" in the new land.

I don't think we want to rush for the Great Library yet.

One thing of note paying for contacts in PTW may not be the best course of action the AI trade contacts much more than before and chances are they are not that far apart.

Glad we were able to get off the island and now that we have contacts there will be more room to trade for techs and bring us back to tech parity.

It turned out they were, but since one or both of them might have been only reachable because of the Great Lighthouse, I decided that it wasn't worth it. I suggest we switch settler production from Trogdor to somewhere else, get construction, build an aqueduct in Trogdor, then build the Great Library ASAP. More than once it has been the deciding factor in my games. Like the time I got a false pangea and didn't develop map making until I realized it. That was in 200 AD. I was in Ancient Age. NO contacts at all. I ended up with a space race victory.

I like that idea about trying to get the Library in Trogdor, but the problem is, we can't build an aquaduct till we get construction...

So meldor can change COL to construction. big whoop. Prices are down bcause everyone we know has it...

just a heads up, the europeans have won a conquest in the ancient age. we need to defend american pride here.

Screw them, we'll get a higher score.

A conquest in the ancient age? WTF!!!!

Why are we going so slow?

Originally posted by Antonius Block
A conquest in the ancient age? WTF!!!!

Why are we going so slow? For some reason we were exploring with our worker. We didn't start improving tiles until much too late. We then didn't improve the right tiles. After that, we didn't get our third city until my last turn. Even if you are at war, you should still expand as much as possible.

BTW, am I up?

yah, just look at their thread, apparently they blockaded the english and then massed about 30 warriors and some galleys and whipped out the :hammer:

I will not be able to play this tonight and will be out of town all day tomorrow, probably getting back very late. If I am up and Hotrod can swap with me, I would appreciate it.

I will grab it and play now.

Originally posted by meldor
For some reason we were exploring with our worker.

Lurk mode off.
That's a typo right? You meant to type warrior........right??
Lurk mode on.

No, he meant what he said -- worker. :crazyeye:

BBBB

50 BC (0): MM Trogdor to grow and get settler same turns. Change Copenhagen from spear to Barracks. Change Reykjavik from harbot to archer. Change Oslo from Harbor to library. Cut research to 30% to get Code of Law in 1 with +11 gold. Buy Philosophy from Russia for 7 gpt and 40 gold. Trade Philosophy and WM to Celts for Horseback Riding and Mysticism. Trade Philosophy to Germany for code of laws and 20 gold. Sell him our map for 40 gold. Trade Celts our extra wines and incence for Math, wm and 4 gold. Build an embassy in Moscow for 37 gold. Build and embassy in Entremont for 57 gold, he is 17 turns from the Great library. Cant afford the embassy in Berlin. Begin 40 turn research on Republic at 10% science.

Quick check: Started with 107 gold and +11gpt with COL due in 1 turn. Now have only 35 gold and +11 gpt but picked up:: CoL, HBR, Math, Mysticism, Philosophy and 2 embassies :D.

30 BC (1): Found Aarhus on the jungle island. New Embassy in Berlin they are 8 turns from GL.

10 BC (2): Bringing galleys home to checkout the western islands that haven't been explored.

10 AD (3): Trogdor builds settler starts library. Copenhagen builds barracks starts spear. Change London to Courthouse.

30 AD (4): zzzzz

50 AD (5): Bergen buids galley starts settler. Reykjavik builds an archer starts another. Load settler/spear pair and head west from Bergen.

70 AD (6): Spot a small island to the west for a new fishing village. BTW Russia is a Monarchy and has spent all her gold.

(I) St. Petersberg has built the Great Library (a waste of 400 shields for the tech leader :lol: )

90 AD (7): Land settler and spear on small island.

110 AD (8): Copenhagen builds spear starts archer. Russia start Hanging Gardens. Found fishing village of Stavanger start harbor. Sell our new maps for 30 gold total.

130 AD (9): There is what appears to be a pretty good island to the South west with a hut sending a new settler/spear out of Bergen next turn. Probably a good 4-5 cities on that island alone.

150 AD (10): Bergen builds settler starts spear. Sell RoP to Brennus for his 36 gold. ROp with Germany for his 19 gold.

Currently: Behind in tech to only Russia by Poly, Monarchy and Republic. I think the she is in her Golden age with the Pyramids and Great Library. New ROPs with Germany and Celts, 10 turns remain on lux deals with celts. 1 extra incence is available to trade. We don't need any new lux now so I held it, possibly use it to drive Cathys price on Poly lower. Research still at 10% Republic due in 30 turns. Russia doesn't have iron and an archer rush with many galleys could put some hurtin on her before she gets to pikes. There is an iron near her cities but not hooked up - concidered a city on that source but it is a flip risk.

The question is do we continue to build out toward the west and push infrastructure (libraries, courthouse and soon markets) or do we go full military and drive on Cathy???

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor150ad.zip


One more thing didn't notice this before but cathy and bizzy are at war.

One thing I think we have to remember is that not all players in this game have monarch experience.

There maybe a few actions that may draw questions but in the long run it will be learning experience and a challenge. I haven't checked out the Euro thread and don't intend to but I think we will be in a good position to win the game (maybe not as quickly as they did) and will be ready for the zerkers to kick some AI butt :hammer:.

Hotrod

- Well meldor, help us learn what to do correctly. I know I made mistakes in the earliest rounds, but I'm pretty new to monarch level, still used to the larger cushion of regent level.

- Hotrod, good job on your turn.

My instinct would be to concentrate on taking out Russia as much as possible while expanding. Where that leaves our infrastructure I don't know... a typical monarch result for me is to end up with a giant nation thanks to expansion and early conquest but manning the posts with musketeers while AI destroyers sail by.

Originally posted by hotrod0823
I think the she is in her Golden age with the Pyramids and Great Library.

Lurk mode off.....again. :)
She can't be. Pyramids are industrious and religious. She's expansionist and scientific. She's half way there though with the GL. If she has/gets the Colossus or Lighthouse.......bingo.
Lurk mode on.

Hi there US team!

Yes we won in the early middle ages. But keep in mind that all of us play monarch or higher. For some reason those people applied for the game...

You're doing great and have a nice mix of experienced and less experienced players. Enjoy that learning experience and have fun with the berserks ;) (we didn't have any...:( )

Matt_G- is that how it works- you have to get wonders in each of your attributes to set off a golden age?

@Aggie- congratulations. I still can't believe how fast you guys ripped through that thing. Don't you Europeans have anything better to do?! :)

Originally posted by Antonius Block
@Aggie- congratulations. I still can't believe how fast you guys ripped through that thing. Don't you Europeans have anything better to do?! :)

No ;) Although there's something to watch on TV now :p

Hail to You, US-team!

Yes, we're finished, but it seems to me that you will be up to a game more in the spirit of the original idea. I'll be lurking around for the rest of your game and I'm really looking forward to see you putting those berserkers into action :hammer:

The European team pulled this one fast due to three things I think, Luck (popped a settler in the first hut), AI stupidity (allowing us to block the first English settler - going blindly for that wine+iron spot) and experience (all players used to Monarch+)

Good luck! And thanks to Antonius :goodjob: for setting up this game - it was my first SG and really enjoyable!

May I also chip in to thank Antonius Block for setting this up :thumbsup: ?

And a small piece of advice: the reason we got a settler from the nearby hut and you didn't was that we founded our first city (in the same place as you) before popping the hut with the scout, as you cannot get a settler from a hut when you still have a settler active.
The quick second city made all the difference in securing the island and thus allowed us to turn our attention to the rest of the world sooner.

Originally posted by Antonius Block
Matt_G- is that how it works- you have to get wonders in each of your attributes to set off a golden age?Since Matt is probably either at school or at work (or still in bed ;) ), I'll answer this.

Yes, you need to have wonders that are associated with *both* of your attributes to trigger your Golden Age. If you are Industrius/Religious, then the Pyramids do it in one fell swoop. Russia, being Expansionist/Scientific, doesn't benefit from the Pyramids at all, with respect to her GA.

The Great Library covers her for "Scientific", so if she gets Colossus, or the Lighthouse, she will have Expansionist covered, too, and thus trigger her GA.

Edit: Beat ya, Matt! :p

Originally posted by Antonius Block
Matt_G- is that how it works- you have to get wonders in each of your attributes to set off a golden age?

Yes. The other way to trigger a GA is to win a battle with your UU.
Doesn't apply with Cathy.....yet. No cossacks..........yet.
Good luck guys.

Matt_G: Whoops your right - it was the Great Lighthouse and the Library she built. I alway screw up the pyramids. :blush:

Wow, I feel really bad about how I popped that hut.

Did you Euro players move north to be on the coast on the first turn or start your city inland (I won't be looking at your thread till I've seen the whole world map)?

We founded on the same spot you did, that is, one tile NE of the starting tile, on the coast. It is my experience that if you found your first city a turn later than the AI's and you are expansionist, the odds of getting a settler from the first hut are really good.

just to laet all of you know, i did not look at the maps or anyting else that would influence my decisions

Whose turn is it now?

Meldor.

Antonius block
Lord Mongoose
Meldor <---- playing now
Hotrod (swapped)
Bewareofgnomes (on deck)

Didn't meldor say he couldn't play today?

No I think he said it had to wait till later on today.

i will be getting my new computer on friday, and then i will be able to play to my hearts content. :)

I wull play this one tonight.

my new computer came in today!!!!! I can play civ 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will not give the usual write up. The turns were mostly building. I got one more city founded. We got Polytheism out of the goodie hut and Traded for some techs. We need to get into the new age and push to invention so we can wipe the others out. Russia and the Celts are fighting Germany. Cathy is running away with the tech lead. I founded one city and there are two more settler spear pairs on boats.

I would suggest we upgrade all of our warriors to swords gather our archers and go take the GL form Cathy. For military, only build archers as these upgrade to Zerks.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor300ad.zip

i think i am up so "i got it"

Take Meldor's advice, 'gnomes. Even though he was stingy with the write up (not mad I hope!), he knows what he is doing.

well, i decided against going to war as i am not a confident warfare. nothing much happened escept cathy is building sun tzu's and we lost one galley discovering a pretty good little island. that was a bout it.

and here is the save

Gosh, the write ups sure are slack around here. Wassupwitdat? C'mon guys, do the lurkers a favor and participate as though this was a respectable succession game.

well, nothing happened at all. if i worote it up it would be like

turn 1 galley sunk
turn 2 mining
turn 3 mining
turn 4 moving workers ect. ect.
when it gets exciting i will start writing up

Not mad at all. I was trying to finish this one and Hot2 last night as I am on a tight schedule tonight and may nit get to touch anything until late. The write up would have been very sparse indeed as most of it has moving galleys and hitting retun. The big choices were what to build next as the current build finished. On a small map and with no war, it isn't too exciting for the build turns. When we go to pound Cathy it will get more interesting.

Originally posted by Antonius Block
Wow, I feel really bad about how I popped that hut.I would not use a worker to pop a hit unless it was within the 21 tile radius of the original city and no military units had been built yet and it was on or near the best tile to be worked. Also, while getting the lux on-line is not always a bad choice in this case the worker would have been better utilized working one or two of the BG squares. By the time the game got to me at turn thirty we had no improvements to the area around the capital. Try this, go back to the original start file. Instead of popping the two huts with the worker, have it work the two BG squares with mine and road. See if you can't get out one or two more warriors that way and still beat the English to the second hut using a warrior. By not improving the land, it set our whole civ back on the growth curve, slower builds of warriors, more time to the first settler, more time to everything.

I am not doing this to pick on you or anyone else. But, at higher levels, early expansion is the way to win. It is key that you get your cities up early and make them productive. There is a realy good article on what to do with workers to be found at: Improving your opening play skills By Cracker (http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/cracker/civ3_starts/) in the CFC War Academy

WHo's up?
I think Antonius, w/ me on deck. Am I right?

Er, gosh, I guess it is my turn. I'll take care of it this afternoon. Thanks for the article link Meldor; the comments on this succession game had convinced me it was time to go back to the war academy and figure out how it is done at the higher levels, as I've been pondering all morning if there is one and only one ideal build sequence for cities.

I'll grab the save and get us working towards taking out Russia. She is already at war, so perhaps we are talking coalition?

I think in Civ3 thier is no set build sequence. Most of the time, it is best to build a granary first, but there are times when it is best to just build the settler and get a better settler factory spot going. The article I pointed you to is one of the best as far as giving you the things you need to think about when you first start the game. The development of the first 5 or so cities is the biggest steps you will take for the rest of the game.

As far as the game is concerned, I would say we don't nned to take Russia out at this point. If we can take 2-3 cities and get her to the peace table giving up 2-3 techs, that would be best. I would go after her colonies and maybe land a reasonable force near one of her non-capital core cities (the capital is usually heavily defended). If we can get Monarchy and engineering we are only one tech away from Zerkers. Once we get Zerkers, this game is all but over. 4 Zerkers will take any city but the capital (RnG willing).

Oh, the only one we can ally with is Germany. That will lock us into 20 turns of war (if you care about our rep). It would be better to just hit her while her guard is down and then get the techs and get out. We can then start reseach on Invention and while that is going build lots of archers to upgrade.

Okay, here is a return to anal retentive turn listings, during the reign of King Block the Cruel, Unlucky at Sea

I am impressed with the number of settled islands, guys.

1-400AD:
Upgrade the Bergen warrior.
Trade Celts Wines for world map+40 gold, Incense for 50 gold.
Hurry production on:
Notingham courthouse (2 dead)
Stockholm courthouse (2 dead)
Stavanger harbor (1 dead)
Copenhagen settler build changed to spearman.
Upgrade Trogdor warrior to swordsman.

My initial goals are to build up defense of mainland holdings and prepare for the capture of Tblisi, the only Russian city on a shared landmass with us.

Offturn: London Temple>forbidden palace.
Nottingham courthouse>barracks
Stockholm courthouse>harbor
Stavanger harbor>settler

2-410 AD
Hurry marketplace at Bergen (2 dead).
Archers and swordsmen begin boarding galleys on east and west coast.
Raise entertainment budget to cheer up all the survivors of those dead citizens who've hurried our development.

Offturn: Bergen marketplace>spearman.
Copenhagen spearman>harbor

3.420 AD- New spearman from Copenhagen sent to defend Trogdor. All archers and swordsmen loaded in. Warriors from Nottingham headed north to upgrade.

Offturn- Celts want an alliance vs. the nearly dead Germans. I bargain for Spices + 78 gold. We take it, Celts gracious. We are in the alliance vs. Germany like the Marshall Islands are currently in the alliance vs. Iraq! ;)
Palace build offered, 2 stories of the Left Wing completed...

4. 430 AD- 2 more warriors upgrade. Archers disembark south of Aarhus (home of real life viking museum).
Offturn: gracious Russians want map exchange. I ask them for alliance vs. Germans, 41 gold +world map. Get it.
Oslo Harbor>spearman.

5. 440 AD- forces moving by sea towards Tblisi.

6. 450 AD- 2 more swordsmen on the archer's boat to Aarhus.

Offturn: the northwest explorer galley, having circled that landmass, sinks in a daring attempt to cross dark seas.

7. 460 AD- All 4 swordsmen unloaded in square south of Aarhus. Workers near Stockholm try novel technique called "irrigation" in the desert. No one notices.

Offturn: bad news, my bad, I miscounted moves and ended another galley in deepwater between Aarhus and mainland, it is lost. Our fleet is at one for the moment.

8. 470 AD- more blood craze from the king, 4 citizens collapse from overwork:

Rush barracks of Nottingham
Rush spearman of Bergen
Rush harbor of Copenhagen
Rush Temple of Birka.

Force south of Aarhus told to wait: my strategy would be to move them thru the jungle to the hill outside Tblisi and then declare war like a sneaky evil weasel. However, I know my antecessors will have other ideas about that, plus with only one ship and two turns left, I'm not ready to start a war...

Offturn:
Bergan spearman>archer
Nottingham barracks>archer
Molde Worker>warrior
Copenhagen Harbor>galley
Oslo spearman>galley
birka temple>spearman

480 AD. Nothing doing.

Offturn: Celts land settler, horseman on southern island.
Trogdor Aquaduct>archer

10. 490 AD. Not much going on, but the next player to hit return gets Republic.

I've tried to rush infrastructure and secure spearman defenders for all cities, now working towards the archer force. I ignored mostly our offshore holdings, it isn't my forte. Good luck. I'll post the save in a minute.

here's the save...

Two possible problems:

1) Are we planning on breaking the alliance with Russia when we hit them? If so our rep will be shot.

2) Since we took two alliances vs Germany, if we do not do anything to harm Germany it hurts our rep. We should at least try to land a spear in German lands and pillage a little to offset this.

If we are going to break our alliance with Russia to attack, then we need to get the Celts on our side, that way they are breaking their alliance as well. We should land the archers near the Russian island cities and use mainly swords jon the mainland. That is if we can't hit at least three Russian cities off of the mainland.

[EDIT] We should also try and hit all of the Russian cities within a turn or tow. The quicker we do the damage the quicker they come to the table and the more they will give.

As I left the game, the kind of lightning strike you envision is still a while away, possibly ready by your turn...

I must admit it was "rep hits" that were bothering me when I didn't move south towards Tblisi. Our odds of reaching Germany before it is destroyed/peace offer are kind of low, especially if we plan to do anything else. The alliances gave us AI cash and good graces, but to quote Viking descendant Joan Jett- "I dont give a damn about my reputation"...

If it's my turn, I got it.
I was under the impression we would wait for the Germans to die before we killed off Cathy. That way no rep hit.
I can't play until tomorrow, so all suggestions would be really nice.

If it's my turn, I got it.
I was under the impression we would wait for the Germans to die before we killed off Cathy. That way no rep hit.
I can't play until tomorrow, so all suggestions would be really nice.

If it's my turn, I got it.
I can't play till tomorrow, so feel free to leave suggestions (as he turns off computer, leaves out cardboard box marked 'Suggestions'.)

I suggest you make the transfer to Republic, but maybe somebody wants to second guess that.

And then, at last, hurrying happens in cash, which means by the end of your turn we might hope to see spearmen defending every city, about 4 galleys ready to start transhipping.

I hope Meldor will give you his advice.

As soon as republic hits revolt. Set all cities that you can to max food and use taxmen and entertainers to control the masses. Most cities will be feeling the effects of the :whipping: :).

With any luck the revolution will be short.

After the revolution we can use our gold to buy a few key buildings in otherwise corrupt town then go full ahead toward zerks and take cathy out. We are probably 10-15 turns from that at least. We don't necessarily need to wait to hit her we can hit her with archers and horsemen as long as she still doesn't have iron and make peace while we build up our zerk army to clear her out along with Brennus.

Hotrod has the plan. The smaller cities will only have a couple of defenders. Archers on spears will work until we get the Zerks.

Sorry guys. Something's come up and I can't play today.
Pass.

Can you play tommorow? There's no major rush...

Mebbe.

Hi, I'm typing this from an internet cafe in a certain large city. I can't play bcause my parents forced me to come along to said large city. I'll be back late tomorrow, so meldor, you're up. Try to use our galley and swords to attack Berlin before Russia gets to it. Oracle is nice.

If you don't mind meldor, I'd love to see you take the next turn (and make it a double if you like... but only if you promise a detailed account)...

OK, I have it

I am back and would like to play following Meldor :)

Sounds good.

490 AD (Pre-turn)
Swap Odense from Temple to settler to finish out the island, if the Celts don't beat us to it. Looking around we have only one gally? How can we destroy these puny pretenders if we only have 1 ship? Add to this, we only have three irrigated squares? We need to get our cities growing and they can't do that without water. I will start irrigation moving up the island and hopefully Hotrod will continue the plan. We have overmined the cities, condiering we don't have any citizens to work all the tiles. Look at the difference between our citiy sizes and those of the Russian's. Population is power. We must get more people to work more tiles. Somewhere along the lines, our rep has been trashed. We have one trun left on Republic and Russia refuses to make any deal for it whatsoever. We are going to have to research Invention ourselves it seems. Swap Asrhus from temple to harbor. Stavanger swaped from settler to worker. Drop the lux tax as it is unneeded this turn.I have MMed all cites for growth and several are set to grow next turn, we will look at them to determine luxes needed then.
(I) The Celts have indeed lnaded a horse and sttler pair on the SW island. We get Republic and start on Engineering. I do not instantly revolt as I like to have a chance to look at the cities happiness before I do so.

500 AD (1)
Move our one Galley to pick up two swords to get in on the German action. I will wait another turn to revolt as I want the worker to finish at Stavanger. Both of the cities on the SW island are swapped to harbors and the one at Odense is whipped. We might as well get in the last whippings that we can.
(I) Trogdor builds an archer begins another. We will also neeed several horseman for Homeland Defense". Aarhus gets its harbor and renewed growth so it starts in on a worker. Stavanger nows has a worker so it begins work on its barracks. Odense completes its harbor and starts a barracks. Reykjavik completes the library, which will get us more wine to sell in three turns. It starts a temple.

510 AD (2)
Move our one Galley to pick up two swords to get in on the German action. Move some workers to mine over a shielded plain next to Stockholm. I revolt towards republic, since I can't get my hands on Monarchy and we draw four turns of anarchy. I check all of our cities and we are good to go.
(I) Worker movement and our galley is on the way. In spite of having just checked them Stravaner and Odense riot. I give them a scientists so we can add some beakers to Engineering while we wait.

520 AD (3)
I let the road finish but there are more important things to do than to irrigate one more desert square. The worker moves to help London grow.
(I)Watch a Celt and Russian ship sail around. The Russians are headed to the island in the NW..

530 AD (3)
Make a happy check and move some workers.
(I)Nada.

540 AD (5)
Whoopie, I get to move the galley!
(I)The Germans drop off some troops outside of Leipzig (which the Russian's own.

550 AD (6)
We are a republic now and Engineering is due in 19 at -2gpt. Move the galley and continue to moe the irrigation channel towards Trogdor.
(I) Zippo.

560 AD (7)
Drop off two swords outside of Berlin, the unit on top is an elite spear.
(I) I watch as the elite spear takes two hits and lives. A healthy regular spear appears under it. Trogdor finishes an archer and starts a horseman. Oslo completes a galley and starts an aqueduct, this one can be changed.

570 AD (8)
I take out a spear in Berlin, but another regular spear appears underneath. The second sword waits.
(I)The Elite spear takes down another Russian archer, this time only taking 1 HP. Bergen completes an archer and starts an aqueduct.

580 AD (9)
Our new galley picks up two more swords and heads for German territory. The Russians only have one unit that can attack next turn so we pillage and fortify. Since we aren't going to be ready to hit Cathy anytime soon, I trade her wines and incense for furs, WM and 25g. This shows that she still doesn't have iron hooked up and is a long way from it.
(I) The Russians do not attack Berlin.

590 AD (10)
Trogdor gets it first irrigated square! Our first galley gets back to pick up our two elite archers. The second one is n the way to Berlin. We wait for the Russian's to help us out in Berlin or for more of our troops to arrive. Berlin would be nice as it is already size 1 and it has ivory! The celts now have Moarchy so I trade them Republic for it and we get thier WM and 24g. The Germans will now discuss peace but won't throw in a city.
(I) Trogdor builds a horseman and starts an archer. Cathy finally moves two archers and two horsemen up to Berlin.

600 AD (11)
We make some more movements.
(I) Darn, the Russians take out Berlin with the help of a lone Celt Horse. We coulnd't have taken the city anyway, but it would have been nice. Nottingham completes an archer and starts a temple.

610 AD (12)
We move our troops out from Berlin. We still have 1 turn on alliance with the Celts and 2 with the Russians.
(I) Trogdor finishes an archer and starts a horseman. M finishes a warrior and starts a harbor. The Celts begin the Great Wall.

620 AD (13)
Galleys still on the move. I leave the alliance in place with the Celts as they are paying us with spices, If they don't cancel it I will leave it until we are ready to make peace with Germany.
(I) The Celts cancel the deal and we are now shipping incense and wines to them for spices. Russia starts Leo's.

630 AD (14)
Cancel the alliance with Cathy. Move the Galleys.
(I) Nada.

640 AD (15)
Galley movement.
(I) Trogdor finishes a horseman and starts another archer. Aarhus completes a worker and starts another.

650 AD (16)
Galley movement and worker movement.


I would suggest at this point that we can go one of two ways. We can complete Engineering, due in 4, buy Feudalism from Cathy using our gpt. Use our iron to buy invention (but allows her to build Knights). We can then up grade and go to bat on Cathy (getting rid of her iron and being dastardly to boot). The other way would be to go for invention oursleves but park a unit by the two iron sources she has near and hit her before she can hook one up. This would allow us to build up more pop and production. I will leave the choice of how we go to Hotrod. I took 16 turns to get us back on track and to even the dates back out. I would suggest Hotrod take 15 as well to see us through this critical time. I left all of the cities on high food.

One more thought....since she has no iron, we could forget going for the Zerks (but it loses the purpose of the game) and just smack her down with swords.....

Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor650ad.zip)

[EDIT] Corrected link to uploads4 instead of uploads3

[Edit: Removed Content to avoid any Lurker Bashings]

I've got it!

@Civgeneral- hey, its Monarch, okay!

@Meldor- good turn. I was surprised about the utter lack of irrigation myself; the galley loss was my fault (one "on purpose" the other an accident); I'm in favor of making sure Russia never gets iron but I'm watching the pro-style players in awe.

Looking forward to seeing hotrod's adjustments...

Originally posted by Antonius Block
@Civgeneral- hey, its Monarch, okay!

Ok, Sorry, no need to get Defensive :(. If there is enough room I would like to Join in, and Please, Dont bash the Lurker :(.

I don't bash lurkers, if it is allright with the others than I guess it is fine for you to come in, between the end of one round and the begining of the next, I'd guess.

Originally posted by Antonius Block
I don't bash lurkers

Sorry for jumping into Conclusions, it was just the tone of the post directed at me that sounded like it (Had a Scarcastic Defensive tone to it).

if it is allright with the others than I guess it is fine for you to come in, between the end of one round and the begining of the next, I'd guess.

Sounds Good :). I can wait :D.

Originally posted by Antonius Block
I don't bash lurkers, if it is allright with the others than I guess it is fine for you to come in, between the end of one round and the begining of the next, I'd guess. it is your game Antonius, so if you want to add him it is your choice.

As for the irrigation, it is something that you will learn as you go up the levels. population = power. The sooner you get it the more powerful you become. That doesn't mean you should pop-rush or even slow/stop the growth of some cities. See Sirian's Infantry game for examples.

You just have to remember that you can't take as much for granted as you go up in level. Some poeple don't like the harder levels because of the amount of attention you have to pay to the little things, others love it.

One more thing, look at the LK44 thread, one of the first things that Lee was concerned with on the dot map was getting the irrigation up to all of the cities.

BBBB 650 AD (0): I know it against my better judgement but I decide to use the iron I can now and get Feudalism, Engineering and dyes from Cathy for iron and 100 gold. Invention in 12 turns leaving 8 turns to get some gold up and build a few zerks from scratch.

660 AD (1): Land 4 units on the German island.

670 AD (2): Trodgor builds archer starts another. Copenhagen builds Galley starts another. Kill a sword in the jungle but lose a regular sword an elte archer to a 1 hp sword.

680 AD (3): Load up 2 more swords to attack Konigsberg shortly. Continuing to Irrigate to the north and working on bringing water the the Eastern Grapes.

690 AD (4): Lose another archer to a german archer. Trodgor builds archer starts another. Reykjavik builds temple starts galley. Birka buils spear starts courthouse. :eek: Russia completes SunZu Art of War in St. Petersburg. That is not good. Land 2 reg swords outside Konigsberg.

700 AD (5): Oslo builds Aqueduct starts galley. Capture German city of Konigsberg and 2 new workers. Start spear.

710 AD (6): Trodgor builds archer starts another.

720 AD (7): Stockholm builds harbor starts catapult. With many size 12 cities we will need them. Invention is due in 4 more turns. Everyone except the Germans is gracious.

730 AD (8): Trodgor builds archer starts another. Russia starts Sistene Chapel. MOre irrigation.

740 AD (9): Celts take out the Germans and it happened to be a city with iron. Celts can now builds Gallic Warriors, lets hope a Russian/Celt war is just around the corner. Reykjavik builds galley starts another. Invention comes in next turn!!!

750 AD (10): We learn invention!! [dance] Bergen builds duct starts Berserk. Stavanger builds barracks starts spearman. Odense builds barracks starts spear. Start on Monotheism but turn research off and hire a scientist. Gain +56 gpt, can upgrade 1 archer every 2 turns. Upgrade the first.

760 AD (11): I am not surprise to learn that Cathy has gunpowder. Sign a ROP with the Celts I have feeling we will be joined in battle vs. the Moster that is Mother Russia.

770 AD (12): Nottingham builds temple starts catapult. Upgrade zerk number 2.

780 AD (13): Reykjavik builds galley starts aqueduct. Oslo builds galley starts another. Sell engineering to Celts for 25 gold and world Map. Upgrade berserk number 3.

790 AD (14): Trodgor builds our first home grown Berserk and starts another. The Capital is now size 12 and I try to set to zero growth.

800 AD (15): Okay not much to do so I upgrade another Berserk. At 100 gold per it will take a while to upgrade them all.

Here is the state of the Union:

There are 5 turns on the iron for dyes deal with Russia that netted us Feudalism and Engineering. Once that is up Russia is going to face our Zerk army.

We currently have 7 archers and 5 Berserks and some thing like 8 galleys: We need more units to take it to Russia completely but I think that we will be able to put a good hurting on. Loadup a couple galleys in Copenhagen to go at Yakutsk. Another galley or 2 to head south from Nottingham to hit Sverdlovsk. And the bulk of the force to hit Tblisi from its East coast. There are still 2 swordsmen in Konisberg that can move on Berlin as well.

Cathy does have Gunpowder but that doesn't mean that all these remote island have musketmen. If we can take and hold these 3 cities then we can get some tech for peace and use our new claims to launch future attacks on the Russian Mainland. It wouldhelp to get our good friends the Celts on board. They share the island and will get most of Cathys counter attacks.

Well my focus was getting to Zerks ASAP and preparing for war. Hopefully I succeded.

One other note it just so happens that in 5 more turns our FP will be online in London.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads4/ameritrogdor800ad.zip

Wow, excellent turn. Things are so good now, I am terrified to go anywhere near them! ;)

Originally posted by meldor
it is your game Antonius, so if you want to add him it is your choice.

IIRC, it is his choice to ad me to the game :).

Civgeneral, did you want to step in at this time and play a round of turns (10ish?). I don't know when gnomes will be back.

Certanly :)
Let me post up my "Ive Got it sign" :)

Let me comb through this forum for the save, Downloaded it, and Play it Tomorrow when I return from School and Work :).

hey wait a minute. i have my new computer and can play today. got it and will post tonight.

Great turn Hotrod, I was temped to pull the trigger on that deal several turns before the end of my reign, but I didn't want to stick you with any 20 turn deals with you getting the brunt of them. I support it 100%. This game should be over shortly, I give it maybe 40 turns if the RnG hates us. It usually only takes 2 Zerks to take a city outside the main core. In games I have played, even muskets have a hard time vs Zerks. It just takes a couple more.

Sorry, Gnomes, I hadn't heard from you in a couple of days, and Civgeneral seemed to be chomping at the bit...

One of you do the next ten turns and one of you do the turns after that.

With any luck I'll get the game just as it's time to put the hammer down on the last AI city!

Meldor and Hotrod- you guys are clearly pros. I've yet to even see a berserker in action, ever, and here Meldor knows all about them. I think I will probably lift one of the later saves once the game is done just to rule the waves myself...

This is the third SG I have been in that we were the Vikes. The first one was in the LK series as Always War. And we cleaned the coasts of all cities we could reach. It ended shortly after the appearance of Cav. The second one was Killer's Zany Zerkers done on a huge map with tech at double prices and the minimum and maximum turns for tech raised. We went through the entire game using Zerks. We were embarrassed to win by culture before we could clean off the last 10-20 cites. We probably knocked out 150-200 cities using Zerks and a scattering of knights. I am well schooled in their abilities. Playing against the Vikes is interesting as well, as once they hit Zerks, all coastal cities have to have a minimum of three defenders at all times. The AI may not know how to use marines effectively, but the Vikes do know how to use their Zerks. Just as in olden times, a Viking ship heaving into view off the coast is reason to fear for your safety.

Antonius thanks for the kind words but be rest assured you learn by playing. I have had the opportunity to play with some of the best including Meldor many many times and it seems that for whetever reason things just have a way of working themselves out.

You will definitely have an opportunity to use the zerks! Bring it on :hammer:! Don't be shy about playing your turns when they come around. Sometimes it it just as rewarding to set someone else up for the kill ;).

I second that thought. This game was won a long time ago. It never has been in doubt. The question was just how long it would take.

Pleaswe don't take any comment by other players, myself included, to be negative. We are so used to talking about the games and trying to point out to each other what we might have done better, or which way is best to go that we do it all of the time. Just look at the discussion in either the RPB6 thread or the current LK44 thread. All of it is intended to make everyone better. We get more people to play with if more people are successful at playing. Don't be afriad to play and state your reasons for what you did. Nothing done in this game caused us to lose or even get close to losing.

No, I don't take any comments as negative. I am quite glad for the advice. The "monarch" learning hump is one I wasn't going to get over by myself.

I think everyone got a bit dismayed by the European team walking over the AI in the Ancient times. A great feat in itself, but I think our game is just as much a good victory in the making, and true to the spirit of the game.

Without iron for anyone but us, we could have ended this game a long time ago. I noticed that the first time I swapped WMs with Russia. I din't thind the fastest finish was our goal here. I thought we were going after whacking them with Zerks.

ok, interesting turn, but we culd have used 5 more turns of build up IMHO.

Preturn - notta

Turn 1 -moving units

IT- -THE RUSSIANS DECLARE WAR!!!

Turn 2 -MA with ce;ts for world map and 69 gold. I figure its worth 1 beserker

Turn 3 -

IT- Konisberg is taken. Hmm not on a russian island

Turn 4 -loose 1 beserker and one upgrades in assault on Yakutsk. 1 spear left in berlin. Raise lux and fire entertainers.

Turn 5 - forbidden palace done, beserks every 2 turns!!!!!!!! yakutusk and tblisi falls under our beserkers mighty iron fists!! Attack on berlin fails. Lost by 1 red bar!!!

Turn 6 -moving units

Turn 7 -moving units

Turn 8 -preparing for attack on mother russia

IT- celts take konisberg

Turn 9 -movin

IT- Russia ssinks a galley

Turn 10 -keep on moving. Whoever is next will get to whip out the :hammer:

we have 4 catapult, 14 beserk, 12 galley, 15 spears, 1 archer, and 2 horsemen

HOW DO YOU ZIP A FILE!?!??!? the file is too big and i would like to post it tonight. could someone please inform me.

Originally posted by bewareofgnomes
HOW DO YOU ZIP A FILE!?!??!? the file is too big and i would like to post it tonight. could someone please inform me.

First you need a zip program if you don't have one. You can get a eval