I am starting a new SG which we wil obviously be America. we will be playing on a completely random map as the americans on emporer. i will post the screenshot and game save later on tonight (when i get civ 3 installed on my new computer :party: )

Difficulty Level - Emporer
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Continents
Water Coverage - 60%
World Climate - Wet, Warm % billion. (we are industriuos ;p)
Barbarians - sedentary
Patch - 1.21
Civs - Max
Not culturally linked, no respawning
Civ - America (DUH)

please sign up quickly.

I would love to play, but Emperor is a bit above my current playing ability :(. So good luck! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Server is too busy. Please try again later. :mad: :rocket: :wallbash: :wallbash: :flamedevi

Now that that's out of my system I'd love to play in this one! That's my kind of map and I'm all for American Pride.

well, we could go down to monarchy. i will set up a poll between monarchy and regent after while

If you're gonna reduce the diff, I'd recommend monarch. Regent is too easy :).

I'd prefer emperor but I'd still play on monarch. Regent is out for me though. You just posted this today, give it a couple days for people to respond.

wait, is it possible for me to insert a poll, or do i have to start a whole new thread?

whole new thread.
just change the description to Monarch if you want. Regent is waaaaaaay too easy.

yah, ive decided against regent. will make a new thread later on tonight

I would like to sign up for this.

Have decent record on Monarch, but no experience on emperor. Will play emperor if you will let me though.
Grimjack

yah, i myself actually dont have a win on emporer, but i can tear **** up on monarch

Figured I'd post here as well--and I VOTED :cool:

I would love to join at either diff--have enough confidence at monarch, but think that a stretch to emperor would be a noble goal.

I have found that pushing the envelope is the only way to get better.

A couple of questions:

Are there any particular victory conditions we are seeking?

Are you familiar with the Realms Beyond site and its description of tactics (Realms Beyond Description of Tactics (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/etactics.html)) ? (note to mod--I have no affiliation with that site--just trying to set up whether we plan to follow a certain ruleset). I agree with them on avoiding the listed exploits--but want to make sure all are on the same page.

Are there any other rule variants that you are looking at?

Thanks, and I hope I can participate. And we can take it to the AI :hammer: !

I say we play honorably: No exploits and no dastardly tactics. Other than that, just win.

That does change things a bit. I was not anticipating a completely honorable game (not talking about exploits :nono: ).

I haven't yet tried a completely honorable game yet--can't seem to resist the urge to take the :hammer: to the AI. Either way--sounds like a good game.

I suggest that we may want to try completely honorable on monarch first, but your call.

I've played to a totally honorable Domination win on Monarch as the Arabs. It's not that hard.

I just voted for Emperor. I am in if you have room

yah, you can join. all victory conditions are set. what exactly would dishonoralbe be?

o, i just saw the link and read the rules. we will loosely follow them, mainly not doing the exploits. if you have any questionss, just ask me.

the way im going to work this is whoever replies first, plays first.i will make sure everyone plays once before somone can play twice.

the players are (Tell me if u want to leave or be skipped)

Bewareofgnomes
Lord Mongoose
Bam Bam
Stormrider
Grimjack
Shillen

Count me out. Emperor is too hard for me at this time.

and the save (can someone tell me how to zip a file)

o come on. look at the screen shot, we have an INCREDIBLE start. you wont get any better with that attitude young man ;)

hey, where is the screen shot? i could have sworn i attached it. :hmm:

To zip a file you can use a program called WinZip. If you don't have it already go to www.winzip.com to download the evaluation version.

If you want an image to show up you need to use the upload file link at the bottom of the screen. Upload the image, then click on the button up above the message field that's labeled IMG. Put in address and there you go.

Since it doesn't seem like you want to play first I will. I should be done later tonight.

ok, i will let you post the screenshot.

If it's a nice start, I'll take the next turn. About time I became an Emperor player...

So is this the order for the game?

Lord Mongoose <==== UP
Bewareofgnomes <=== ON DECK
Bam Bam
Stormrider
Grimjack
Shillen


Also, am I correct to assume that LM will take 20 and the rest after that 10? And that we upping the ante to Emperor???

There it is...BoG01 :hammer: or :eek: ?

Either way...bring it on!!!

Ok I wasn't sure how many turns to take. I ended up taking like 30 turns to get the ball rolling. I checked LK43 and that's how many he took so that's what I did hehe. It actually was a good spot to stop anyway, had just gotten things going. Was a pretty slow start as flood plain starts usually are but after that it's really fast. Without further ado here is my timeline.

4000 BC – Move scout n,nw onto hill and reveal another wheat north of the first one. Debate whether I should move the settler nw onto the hill or found in the start position. Moving I would lose the fish and gain the other wheat. But one wheat is enough to get to +5 food anyway, I’m better off using the other wheat for another town. I decide to found in start position. Research set to alphabet at minimum.

3950 BC – First hut gives 25g.

3900 BC – Silks within easy reach to NW. :)

3850 BC – Wines to north.

3800 BC – Pretty nice land, as usual with warm/wet climate. :)

3750 BC – Hut gives ceremonial burial.

3700 BC – Hut gives bronze working. Washington builds second scout.

3650 BC – Zzzz

3600 BC – Zzzz

3550 BC – Zzzz

3500 BC – Blue borders expand across the water from Washington to SW. Hut gives warrior. Hut gives 25g.

3450 BC – Zzzz

3400 BC – Zzzz

3350 BC – Hut gives 25g.

3300 BC – Zzzz

3250 BC – Hut gives warrior code.

3200 BC – No contact yet. I think we may have our own continent. Will need to get map making asap.

3150 BC – Silks on NE side of continent.

3100 BC – Zzzz

3050 BC – Hut gives the wheel.

3000 BC – Washington builds granary. Goody hut gives map of region. Only visible horses on NE corner of continent.

2950 BC – Zzzz

2900 BC – Zzzz

2850 BC – Zzzz

2800 BC – Washington builds settler.

2750 BC – Zzzz

2710 BC – Zzzz

2670 BC – Zzzz

2630 BC – Washington builds settler. New York founded with access to second wheat. Turn this into settler factory and we’ll be producing a settler every 2 turns. No need for escorts due to sedentary barbs, but don’t expect the AI to stay off our continent for long.

2590 BC – Zzzz

2550 BC – Settler due in 2 turns. Our current settler should found a city where he is for high production coastal city and silk hookup.

And here is our empire:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/bog-dotmap.JPG

Ok, not a great starting location, especially for people new to emperor level. We will really suffer from not having any contacts until map making. But we did ok on goody huts, got all first level techs except alphabet which is due in 10 turns. I kind of wish I had researched ceremonial burial or something instead so we could have gotten alphabet in a hut. I’m not used to playing expansionist civ’s.

We have a couple options after we get alphabet. Either we can go for mathematics and let the other civ’s find us first, since we know at least one of them is just across the way from us. Or we can try to get map making first and meet them. I think it’s highly unlikely we’ll get map making before the blue border civ though, so we might as well let them contact us and hopefully we’ll get math before them and can trade it for other techs.

Here is a map of our empire with suggested city sites. Yellow dot is where our settler currently is and should found there. Green dot should be next to pick up the whines and another good site. Then purple dot, gets whale, makes a desert tile produce 2 food, another core city. The black dots and white circles are suggested after that in any order really. White circle isn’t exact, after you uncover the fog just pick somewhere that looks good. The horses are all the way off the map to the NE. You might want to send a settler over there after getting 5-6 cities to ensure we get the horses. I don’t imagine we’ll be able to settle this entire land mass before the AI’s start coming over.

New York will be our second settler factory. Road and irrigate the wheat first of course. After it builds a worker set it to build granary. Mine up all the grassland tiles, it might be short on production to produce settlers every 4 turns.

Luxury taxes have been hurting us so far but we’ll have the silks and wines hooked up soon and hopefully some warriors for MP.

It's up to BoG as to whether we do 10 or 20 turn increments. Good luck to whoever goes next.

Here is the save, BoG1-2550 BC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-2550_BC.zip).

Man I just looked at the minimap for the first time. I'm used to playing large maps. We've got like half the land area all to ourselves. The other 7 AI's must all be crammed together and are probably racing through the techs. Let's hope they're all at war so their tech speed is slowed down.

Are you kidding? This is an AWESOME start! We have room to expand up the wazoo, and it might be more profitable to actually do our own research up to republic then sit on one scientist max cash research. The minus is that we will have to relocate our palace w/ a leader unless we want to spend a hundred turns building the FP in an extremely corrupt spot. Whatever, time to show the world what we Americans are made of :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:!
Order:
Shillen (PLAYED)
LordMongoose (UP)
bewareofgnomes (ON DECK)
BamBam
Stormrider
Grimjack
BTW, I got it, will play and post tomorrow. The turns of ne diff away from deity for a guy who just got the game in December are not to be rushed ;).

BTW, you made a typo in the file path. it was http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-2550_BC.zip, not http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-2550 BC.zip. :nono:

Techs are sooo expensive on emperor. It's really hard to get less than 40 turns per tech. The blue civ, I'm guessing Germans, will contact us long before we get anywhere near republic. And you're right, our palace is in a really rough spot and might need to be moved. It depends on how the German lands look. If we conquered Germany the Palace might not be in such a bad spot. For now we just should worry about the FP, getting it towards the center of our continent.

I don't want to sound pessimistic but having a lot of expansion room isn't really all that helpful. It's great for score and luxury/resource acquisation. But still only the core cities will ever be very productive. I would have prefered if there was one other civ on the other side of our continent to trade with and later conquer.

The thing with large civs is that they generate plenty of commerce, and certain wonders have their effects magnified. I'll say this from a Monarch game of mine:
Chinese (Militaristic, Industrious)
30 cities (large map, pangea)
Sun Tzu's
Michelangelo's Workshop
Mobilized
Golden Age

There were 8 other civs at the time. 20 turns later, there were two, and no, Gandhi did not nuke them :).

Originally posted by LordMongoose
BTW, you made a typo in the file path. it was http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-2550_BC.zip, not http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-2550 BC.zip. :nono:

Oops, the upload server adds the underscore in on its own and I always forget it. It's all fixed now, thanks.

hey, mongoose, ill go next cuz i can play tonight. forst round = 20 turns, the rest = 10. i will prolly just play to a certain date. and just to let you know, i dnont post turn logs, i just give a summary.

ok, i played untill 1990 and settled 3 cities. new york is now worker factory, as workers will be needed for such a huge chunk of land.

and here is the save.

WOW we have a LOT of land to settle! First turn looks great--haven't seen BoG's save yet (at work :( ).

@ BoG concur with the worker factory--this can be huge with our industrious advantages (I have a single game going with Carthage--monarch--and my infrastructure and industrious worker usage make this one a walk in the park :cool: )

Good luck LM--think it would be VERY useful to get Mapmaking and make some contact--need to know whether the huts have us close to the AI in tech.

Prob need to look at moving the palace unless we go on an early rampage south :hammer:. We should figure this out quickly, so we can start planning the new capital and FP sites. With no one on our land--having two good cores quickly will make the difference.

Funny how we are the Americans, and it looks like we have ocean separation from our rivals. Are you SURE you did not edit the map? :hmm:

Shillen
Bewareofgnomes
LordMongoose <==== UP
Bam-Bam <==== ON DECK
Stormrider
Grimjack

The good news from BoG's turn is scouting the blackness NW of Washington revealed a source of horses. So no need to worry about sending a settler all the way across the continent for the other ones.

As for the worker factory that sounds fine. As the cities get farther and farther from New York though they'll probably want to produce their own workers. We also need a granary in New York. New York is growing faster than it's producing workers so maybe we can whip a granary. Granary is 60 shields so we could build 20 shields then whip 2 pop. Worth it in the long run.

Btw BoG I don't know if you played with the lux slider at all but at the end of your turn it was at 40% and only needed to be at 10%. By moving it to 10% and moving science up to 80% iron working was due in 8 turns instead of whatever it was before (13 or 15 or something). Research seems to be a little quicker than I remembered. I've been playing deity too much lately. I'd say we keep science as high as possible and either go for map making or republic. I'd suggest map making so we won't have to buy contacts.

These are some spots we could build the FP.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/bog-dotmap-FP-2.JPG

Spot #1 is the most centralized location. Corruption would be bad but bearable with a courthouse. After expansion it has access to a plains cattle.

Spot #2 is a bit farther away, will have worse corruption, but has 2 game and a plains cattle in reach.

Spot #3 is closer. It would keep our current core productive and we'd then move the palace to the eastern half of the continent. We'd still need a courthouse here before building the FP.

Spot #4 would get the FP done the fastest. It would help some but the palace would need to be moved farther NE. Also New York will probably be tied up with building workers/settlers for a while.

Personally I vote for #3. Or you could even move it NE one tile if you want to get the wheats.

yah i say spot 3 with one to the NE. sorry about the lux :smoke: but i think that was the only one though.

If our worker factory is growing faster than we can put out workers, why would we want to waste a couple of turns worth of production and also a whip ?

( I am curious, as I do not see the rationale for this. )
Grimjack

i agree with you grimjack. if it is growing faster then it can produce worjers then there is no need at all. we should try to improve all land squares around washington and new york asap IMHO

I say stick with the spot recommended--moving to NE will get it off the river--not necessary for this city to be a worker/settler factory.

hmm, i never saw the river, so yah keep it on the river. what are your thoughts on New York's proposed granary?

It won't grow faster than it produces workers for long. As it grows it produces more shields/turn and workers will be built quicker. The granary is VERY important. We're wasting oodles and oodles of food without a granary. And it will be a huge waste to leave this city producing workers for infinity. You're better off making a far flung city into a worker factory than a core city. New York will work making workers for a short while, but once we've got our second ring around Washington it should switch to settlers. And then when we're done expanding the granary will help it recover from being a settler factory into a normal productive city.

Even if you did keep it a worker factory through the entire expansion phase a granary would still help immensely. The granary would allow the city to remain pop 5-6 instead of the current 2-4. Workers would be getting produced every 2-3 turns instead of every 7-10 turns due to the increased production and faster growth.

Moving the FP city one tile NE doesn't take it off the river...all it does is move it 1 tile farther from Washington, bring the wheat within workable range, and remove the desert tiles from the city radius.

Sorry guys, something's come up and I can't play today.
Pass.

i thought you meant e, not ne so yah ne would be fine. i still dont think a granry will be necessary until we need settlers due to washington building infrastructure. whoever is up next can decide though. whoever says "got it" first besides shillen and i can play next.

Oops..looks like BoG and I had the same "directionally-challanged" view. :crazyeye:

If LM has to skip, I GOT it. I should be able to play tonite and post either tonight or tomorrow morning.

@Shillen--agree on value of graneries.

WOw. Do you guys have good enuf land??


Too bad no one is on your island

i have decuded after taking a closer look at the save that we should whip out a granry ASAP. we should also mine those 2 bonus grasslands.

I have not looked at save, so I may be mistaken with the granary. My thought was to wait building granary until size 5, when it could be done fast. If this is unfeasible, then, yes even a whipped granary will be good.

Pre-turn :hmm: there is no pre-turn here...wonder what's going on???

Turn 1 (1990BC) Ack--think someone else who looked at the slider said this--but NO NEED for 40% lux--back to 10%. IW in 10 @ -1gpt. Ok with 297g in treas :thumbsup:.

Veto temple in Phili--change to warrior for MP
Veto temple in Atlanta--warrior for MP
:hmm: temple in Boston not vetoed--too far along
Western scout sent to southern tip to scout edge of landmass
Eastern scout sent north to scout eastern water's edge
Northernmost settler sent to spot N of Phili
Settler in DC sent to FP site--think we may need something inbetwen Phili and FP site

IT: zzz

Turn 2 (1950BC) ZZZ

Turn 3 (1910BC) NY worker >>> warrior (MP)
DC gets a taxman
Western scout reaches southern edge--blue civ (Korea) is capital--city is expanded--then scout sent north to scout western coastline

Turn 4 (1870BC) Phili warrior >> warrior due at next growth
mm DC for more trade same growth settler still due in 2
mm slider IW still in 6 2gpt

IT "the Aztecs are destroyed"

Turn 5 (1830BC) zzz

Turn 6 (1790BC) DC settler >> warrior (MP)
settler enroute to dot north of Atlanta
slider to 0% lux IW in 4 0 gpt

Turn 7 (1750BC) Atlanta warrior >> warrior for MP
NY and DC get taxman
Chicago settled NE of phili warrior for MP
IW in 3 5gpt

Turn 8 (1725BC) NY warrior >> warrior taxman fired
DC warrior >> settler taxman fired

Turn 9 (1700 BC) zzz

IT IW discovered writing in 10

Turn 10 (1675BC) lux to 10%
hired scientist in Boston Writing now in 9
Iron on hill nw of wheat in DC
Iron on hill s of NY
Seattle founded on FP spot. [/rant] SEATTLE is the 7th CITY??? :smoke: [/rant]
mm NY for growth in 2 warrior in 1

Next build for NY should be the granery
Looking at the top five cities--we are up against the Mongolians, Koreans, Iroquois, and Zulus plus two more (Aztecs are dead). We are #1 in land, pop, GDP, and productivity. Screenshot up momentarily

And the save BoG1 1675BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1,1675_BC.SAV)

Shillen
Bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
LordMongoose <==== UP
Stormrider<==== ON DECK
Grimjack

Here is a screenshot with my recommended city locations.

Recommend settling blue then yellow, green and orange. We also should put a city where all the white dots show we are wasting tiles.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoGdotmap.jpg

sorry about the preturn. could have sworn i had made one. o well, didnt hurt too much. about the temple, i wasnt sure of what to build so i was going to let you chose. sorry about boston :smoke:

hey i ust noticed, iron in washington's radius!! possible IW? we have two hills. what? a man can dream...

@ BoG No prob. Since we are not religious, and have no particular culture pressure--the mp's keep the cities happy immediately. Also thought that about DC--we sure do have some great land--just have to snatch it up and get a galley out exploring asap (I suggest a prebuild or a whip).

do we have contact with korea? if we do, then they should have contact with someone else since this is contonent.

No contact--just know that the blue is for Korea (saw the capital in the "Top 5 cities" listing. We will need to get MM to get contact, unless we see a wandering galley.

who is up next? it is getting close to the 24 hour deadline.

Shillen
Bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
LordMongoose <==== UP
Stormrider<==== ON DECK
Grimjack


BTW it has been over 48 hours since I posted my turn.

Yeah I think we should skip LordMongoose unless he responds before Stormrider does. You following along Stormrider or LordMongoose?

I understand though that the GOTM just started and I know I for one have been busy playing that.

grimjack, you can take it now. shillen, you can take it if grim jack doesnt within 24 hours

I see it, and will play it late tonight. ( Or in about 7 hours. )

Grimjack

alright, sounds good

Sorry - I thought the LordMongeese was up and I did not see the post from yesterday asking if I was around until just now. Would have loved to play. Anyway, good luck Grimjack

you can play after grimjack.

Sweet. Thanks BoG

Executive summary.
Lots of roading, some improvements, some MPs and WRiting discovered. Left next tech choice up for discussion, no beakers invested into next tech.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1,1450_BC.zip

1675 Look around. Do nothing. Looks very good to me.

IBT: Disease in Atlanta, NY Warrior -> Granary

1650(1) Some exploration, Worker moving to hook up iron

IBT Boston: Temple -> Spearman, Washington Settler-> Settler

1625(2) Explorer spots land to our north. No borders though

IBT: Quiet

1600: San Fransisco founded, set to worker

IBT: People want Forbidden Palace, Philadelphia, warrior -> warrior

1575(4) Road to iron complete

IBT: ...

1550 (5) Worker movement WInes connected

IBT: Washington -> Settler. Must have missed something, as washington got to size 3.
WIll be more careful MMing erst of turns.

1525 (6) Boston expanded, so I put Scientist on Fish instead for two beakers.



IBT Chicago Warrior->WOrker, Atlanta Warrior -> Granary, Boston Spear-> Colossus ( Vetoable, just placeholder )

1500 (7) ...

IBT: ....

1475 (8) Road to Philly completed. STart improving some squares. Turn down science for Writing in 1 and 10gpt.
Turn down lux. SIgh, should have done this in 1550.

IBT: Writing comes in. Hmm, we haven't discussed what to research here. MapMaking and Great Library Gambit
Looks equally good. Setting on Literature for now. This may well be :weed:

1450 (9) Position first settler. Second settler on his way. Will put game up for next person now, rather than
waste a turn researching the wrong thing. Note, you will have to raise luxes when big cities grow.
Note also, you have to decide on max research or min, I have placed slider on 30%.

Just noticed.

We will get Lit in 9 if we go 100% on sci.

New York would probably be better to put a citizen on hill, for growth in 5 and Granary in 3, if growth takes away food before production of Granary happens.

i would suggest map making as lit would tgl would be pointless unless we got some contacts. stormrider, your up. (as you can tell this is pretty loose, but i want to get this going so i am going to start skipping some people)

We'll find contacts long before the great library is obsolete, but there's just no way we'd be able to build it. You pretty much have to use a pre-build to get it on emperor or deity and as far as I know we aren't prebuilding anywhere. We should definitely go for map making to get contacts. Btw you should prebuild a galley too. Sucks to get map making then have to wait 9 turns to build your first galley.

Got it.

Preturn

In the year 1450 B.C., Lord Stormrider takes control of American government. He surveys the empire and is truly amazed at the wide open spaces. His advisors heard him walking around the palace muttering something about 'Manifest Destiny'. He then ordered the scribes to learn how to make a graphical representation of all the lands that the American people claimed (Map Making). In fact, he saw that treasury could afford a little deficit researching and order 100% science at -2gpt to get map making in 11 turns.

MM NY to grow in 3 rather than 4

1) 1425 BC

* Miami founded
* Wash Settler -> Settler
* Seattle Warrior -> worker (may change later...)
* Settlers on the move. One to yellow dot on the last Dot map I saw. The one from Washingtom is going to make a long, long, long journey to the frontier. Workers working.

2) 1400 BC

* Finish up some BG mines. Move settlers.
* NY, Atl, Wash all grow in pop next turn

3) 1375 BC

* MM NY (size 6) to prevent riots
* NY Granary -> Worker

4) 1350 BC

* SF Warrior -> Spear
* Philly Worker -> temple

5) 1325 BC

* NY Worker -> Worker (can't have enough right now). I have started some workers on a road project to connect the newer cities to the older core cities. It is taking forever to get settlers to the frontier.

6) 1300 BC

* Wash Settler -> Settler. I will be sending this settler as a filler for the 'White dots' referred to in the last dot map. Although with our road situation, I am sure the next leader can veto before the settler is in place

7) 1275 BC

* Houston founded at yellow dot.
* SF changed production to worker. We NEED roads.

8) 1250 BC

* Chicago worker -> worker

9) 1225 BC

* NY worker -> Worker. Sent worker towards Boston to mine BG to hepl along Colossus

10) 1200 BC

Move worker onto BG by Boston for mining next turn


Summary:

* Settler on floodplains in our unsettled middle can be made a city next turn or moved out to the frontier if that is desired

* Settler on frontier in NE sould move one square NE to found a city (or where ever the next leader sees fit)

* MM NY to grow and build new worker in 2. NY is set to be come a powerhouse of production (relatively speaking), We may want to have it build other than workers.

* Map Making next turn. 2 choices for galley:
* Washington is only decent coastal city, so you can switch settler to galley
* Whip one out of Philly, its got the population to spare and for the moment, little productive power.

* STILL NO CONTACTS

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1,1200_BC.zip)

Looking good!

Looked at the save--gotta love all this land. Attached is a new dotmap. I think the settler in between NY and Seattle should move southeast--this settles on a desert, making it a productive tile--still has 2 FP in its expanded radius, and adds two reg grassland and one bg. One downside is that it will not be on a river--but I think the pluses outweigh the minuses here.

Dotmap is attached. I suggest priorities are the red, green and blue dots. The other dots are my best cut at optimal placement--only one being off the river.

Slider should be MM'ed to min sci--MM still in one @ 33gpt. I suggest changing DC to a min shields (all on water tiles--same growth) so that the settler will arrive in 2 and you can change to a galley after we learn MM.

That Korean city to our south has expanded TWICE :eek:. We need to get some culture going...

Otherwise, I think we have a great setup here. We might want to think about moving the FP out further beyond Seattle and then moving the capital to NY. My $0.02.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/bog1dotmap2.jpg

I got it.

Otherwise, I think we have a great setup here. We might want to think about moving the FP out further beyond Seattle and then moving the capital to NY. My $0.02.

I don't think that would be wise. The FP is going to be hard enough to build in Seattle due to corruption. If we move farther away even a courthouse won't help us much. It's easier to build the FP in Seattle, then either move the capital far to the NE or leave it where it is and take some Korean cities.

There must be 2 Korean cities on that coastline. Washington has expanded twice itself at 100 culture. It almost doesn't look like it because the borders won't go out farther than the ocean/sea border. You need 1000 culture for the third expansion and I don't think it's possible they have that much in 1200 BC.

Preturn: Turn science down to 10% (map making in 1 turn). Move citizen in colossus city from fish to bg for 2 extra shields and same food. Move Atlanta citizen to flood plain, growth is more important than shields right now. Miami switched from warrior to worker.

1175 BC (1): Map Making discovered, research set to Mathematics at 100% (7t/-3gpt). Miami worker => temple. Seattle worker => granary. May switch those to barracks if they start producing more than 1 spt. The corruption is pretty bad, I’m getting too used to playing large maps. New York worker => settler

1150 BC (2): Washington galley => settler. Buffalo founded where Bam-Bam said to. Set to temple. St. Louis founded on green dot. Set to worker.

1125 BC (3): We meet Korea. Omg we have a huge tech lead. They have no techs for us, just contact with Zulu. We’re up Masonry. Pottery, the Wheel, and Ceremonial Burial on them. I give them masonry for contact with Zulu and their 20g. They have no iron either. :hammer: Zulus have horseback riding, they lack masonry and alphabet. They want both techs and world map for hbr. I decline, we don’t need it bad enough right now. I trade ceremonial burial and pottery to korea for their world map. They have their own continent, Korea only has one city and Zulus have 2, I guess they’ve been at war the entire time? I’m clueless. Neither have horses or iron in borders. Lux 10% to prevent riot in Washington.

1100 BC (4): San Francisco worker => temple.

1075 BC (5): Washington settler => barracks. We want to hit Korea/Zulu while they’re weak. We won’t have to move Washington if we manage to kill them off and settle their island. Settler sent NW to horse tile. Lux down to 0.

1050 BC (6): New York settler => settler. Send settler 1 NE of yellow dot. Yellow dot isn’t on river. I put priority on closest city location, since they’re all going to be corrupt until we get our FP up anyway. Science down to 80% (math in 1).

1025 BC (7): Mathematics discovered. Research set to currency at 100% (11t/-3gpt). Houston worker => worker. Philadelphia switched from temple to galley.

1000 BC (8): Philadelphia galley => galley. Lux 10%.

975 BC (9): Detroit founded on horses. Set to barracks.

950 BC (10): New York settler => settler. Washington barracks => swordsman. Zulus founded a third city w/ horses. Korea still has only 1.

This is the most bizarre game I’ve played in a while. Our start location is just too good to be true. Only way it would have been better is if the good land was on the SW part of our continent instead of the NE part. Atlanta will finish barracks soon and should start pumping out swords along with Washington. New York is our new settler factory. I failed to mm it though and it dropped to size 3. Colossus is done in 8, then it should switch to barracks and swords as well. We probably only need like 10-12 swords to take out both korea and the Zulus. Just noticed, the poor Koreans got an all desert start, no wonder they only have one city. But even so there must have been some warring going on for both of them to be so weak. I don’t see any razed cities though.

The western galley is moving up the coast to scout out that bit of land you can see up there. The other galley can scout the eastern side of the zulu island but don't take it too far cause we'll probably need it for transporting swordsmen.

BoG1-950BC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-950_BC.zip)

Couple more thoughts.

If we don't find any civ's in the immediate area we might think about trying to build the great lighthouse so we can use suicide galleys more effectively. Not sure we could get it though. Also if we don't find civ's we should go for republic after currency. Then literature after that to increase our research speed.

Agree on :hammer: to Korea and Shaka ASAFP. Should send 15 swords followed by settlers and a couple of native workers. We should check out their locations--keep if good--otherwise raze if we do not like what they chose (e.g., all desert...).

Agree on the movement of yellow dot (new dotmap attached). I was torn on this one between using all our land and keeping everything on the river. As you can see from the map, I am still torn on location of orange dot---whoever has it, make the call. Neither location is :smoke:.

I am also torn on the location of FP--though I am now leaning to Shillen's position. If we put the screws to Wang and Shaka--current capital is optimal. Add that to a getting the FP up quickly--we may be on our way to a romp with that many low corruption cities.

In any case, this is a great start--let's keep it rolling! :D

Shillen
Bewareofgnomes <==== UP
Bam-Bam <===== ON DECK
LordMongoose (MIA) suggest we autoskip until we hear from him
Stormrider
Grimjack
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/bog1dotmap3.jpg

got it, will play soon

quite the surprise, us being ahead in tech in an emperor game.

A few ancient era wars must be the reason.

If we are ahead in tech, it doesn't matter if we get Great Library or not.

Grimjack

well, this was the most eventful turn yet. im thinking maybe coast to the modern agfes and have a superpower showdown.

Preturn -notta

Turn 1 - notta

Turn 2 -atlant to granry, vetoable

Turn 3 -notta

Turn 4 -notta

Turn 5 -NY - settler>settler. Settler sent to orange dot. New Orleans founded. Ready up suicide galley. I just guessed where som shallo waters are.

Turn 6 -fortified galley in philly. I SEE LAND!!!! contact rome, buy contact with germany, get mysticsm and contacts w/ iro and mongols off bizzy. Get code of laws for contact with zulu. Get HBR of mongols for contact and map. Sell contact with korea for almost nothing. Looks like we are par with everyone else and germany is in the lead.(behind us of course)o and were up on mathematics

Turn 7 -baltimore founded

Turn 8 -currency done, philosophy in 4. Trade currency around for world map and some gold. Collusas finished, start barracks. They have TONS of land, though most of it is forest. This is really a f*cked up game

Turn 9 -notta

Turn 10 -rome build pyramids

and the game

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-710_BC.zip

This is a VERY strange game! :crazyeye:

Got it.

Trade currency around for world map and some gold.
You traded a monopoly tech for world maps? You should have waited for them to research something. We could have gotten multiple techs out of that. I also don't agree with selling contact to Korea and Zulu. Better if we kill them without the world knowing. It also gives them devalued techs to buy and could make them harder to kill.

Good job making contact with Rome though.

yah, im not very good at trading, but i thought that they wer going to finish currency soon. the world maps did help. This doesnt seem like a standard game because of all the room that everyone has, asides from zulu, mongolia, and korea. I had to sell the contacts to get 2 techs. i figured it was worth it.

You said they didn't have math, so they couldn't have been researching currency anytime soon. That's why I researched currency in the first place, it's a tech the AI doesn't go for until really late. Most likely they would have researched construction, literature, code of laws, philosophy first and it would have been a great trading tool to get those and we could have gotten the world map at the same time. It's really no big deal. We're still in very good shape.

As for trading contacts between islands, it's generally not a good idea, even if it helps you get a couple techs. The reason for this is the devaluation of techs the more civ's that know it. For example, say the entire Roman continent knows construction. Neither the Zulu nor the Koreans know it though. We can buy it from the Roman continent real cheap because as far as they know every civ has it except us. We can then sell it to the Zulu continent for extremely high prices since to them it's a monopoly tech. But if they had contact with the other continent it would be valued really low since a lot of civ's already knew it. Basically by holding off on selling contacts between islands we can keep techs really cheap for us and expensive for everyone else.

There is one case where you want to sell contacts between islands, and that's if you're trying to go for a real fast space race or diplomatic victory. It will speed up the AI research and in turn speed yours up too.

We should start thinking about what victory condition we should go for.

Personally I'd like to go for a peaceful approach (not counting wiping out Korea and the Zulus). Most of my recent games have been domination-type and I'm kind of bored of those. I'd like to see how fast we can launch our spaceship.

Anyway place your vote and reasoning. We can go with the majority vote or whatever BoG decides.

We should start thinking about what victory condition we should go for.

Personally I'd like to go for a peaceful approach (not counting wiping out Korea and the Zulus). Most of my recent games have been domination-type and I'm kind of bored of those. I'd like to see how fast we can launch our spaceship.

Agree--on both. This setup lends itself to spaceship or diplo--ONCE we wipe the map with the Koreans and the Zulu. :hammer:

My current game will be a domination--also in a AW SG, and the latest epic is AW. I think those will be enough :ar15: for me.

Also non-panegea wars are a pain in the butt logistically. I haven't looked at the save, but I do not think that will change much.

Agree with Shillen on the trading and contact pointers--in general, the longer hording of contacts in this type of game mean more brokering opportunities--unless you LIKE checking the diplo screen EVERY turn...

thanks for the tips. i am fairly new at civ 3, but in the future i wont sell contacts. I think we should go for a modern age conquest or spaceship launch if we cant conquer. spaceship would be too easy IMHO

Conquest would be quite easy too. We'll kill the zulus and koreans with no trouble at all since they're so weak. That leaves only 4 civ's and we'll have 2 continents to ourselves. But it's your game so I wouldn't mind at all if you really want to conquer everybody.

Keep in mind that nothing is ever set in stone. I wouldn't say things like "I won't sell contacts in the future." Just try to understand the reasoning I gave and in a future game apply that reasoning to the situation. Then you can decide what the best course of action is. I definitely would not advise you to never sell contacts. If both civ's are on your continent then you know they're going to meet up eventually anyway, then you might as well benefit from selling the contact. But even on a single continent it's not always the case that you want to sell the contact. Imagine if you were on a long strip of land, one civ was on one end, another on the other end, and you were in the middle. Most likely the other two civ's aren't going to meet each other for a while so you should hold onto the contact and use the advantage that gives you. Try to learn concepts and not rules. :) Sorry I'm being so critical, but I'm just trying to help. :)

Good gameplay points all, Shillen. BoG, I think the more I read other SG threads, and read the exploits of the successful diety players here--there are no absolutes...other than think ahead and do not blindly press "end turn". The great thing about SGs is that you get more than one view, and invariably that leads to improved gameplay. I also find that 10-20 turns per player is freeing--I can MM the heck out of cities, workers, etc.--knowing that my teammates are watching--AND that I do not have to do this forever. I have been trying to apply this to solo play--chewing off managable pieces of the game at a time--and reviewing the big picture with every load like a start of a succession game turn. This greatly helps eliminate the :smoke: I tend to develop as I may be rushing for something (invasion, the next age, wonder, etc.).

Also, some of the best succession games I have seen here resulted from LOTS of discussions about strategies, tactics, and every situation in general. This is what makes these teams so powerful.

@ Victory type: Conquest would work too--haven't done that in a while---I am usually a domination-type, but all those corrupt cities can be a pain.

I hope to have my turn complete and the save posted tonight.

well i meant when i can keep the two civs from meeting for a while, i wont sell the contact. I have never won a conquest, but i have won every other type becaus i usually will get domination before i can finsh wrapping them up. if anyting, i just want to practice combined arms tactics in the artillery and modern ages.

In my solo games I usually end up with all players furious with me for reasons unknown. After that, domination is usually the easiest course.
( For some reason I seem to have an aversion to razings. )

I will try to go along with you more experienced players outlines as best I can.

Grimjack

Here is the turn-by-turn. Since I am at work, and I forgot to grab the save, the save will be up @ 5:30 EDT today :smoke:

Pre-turn
Fire musicians.
MM DC and slider to 10% lux, scientist in DC, 50% science; Philo in 2 14 gpt, DC sword in 3.
MM Buffalo for growth in 6 vice 9; temple still in 20.
MM NY for settler in 8 vice 15, it's about to grow
Veto temple in SanFran--this is a corrupt city w/1 spt change to galley due in 1.
WTF are all these workers doing so far from our core?!?! Atlanta will end up working unimproved tiles soon! :mad: Some of these workers are *not* in our territory---wait, ok there is a settler there. Ok, I am calm now--we can probably handle this given that we are still expanding and are industrious. If that were not the case, this would be some serious :smoke: [pimp]. I will be improving 1-3 tiles near new cities and sending the rest
of the workers back to the core cities.
Temple vetoed in Miami--changed to spear--mp get happiness faster and quick border expansion not yet needed.
Courthouse whipped in Chicago
Seattle set up for whip-change-whip to Courthouse--wheat is not online yet, and we need to get this city working on the FP.

Turn 1--690 BC
Chicago courthouse >> temple
Phili galley >> temple (to get whale)
Miami spear >> temple
MM Seattle for growth in 6
Veto rax in St. Louis for spear
Galleys sent to DC for invasion force
Veto rax in Detroit for spear

Turn 2--670 BC
Learn Philosophy >> Literature in 6 @ 7gpt deficit research not warranted for 1 turn
Boston rax >> sword in 3
MM DC for commerce 1 scientist, and 10 spt (need to keep DC and Boston @ 10 net spt...)
Denver founded on orange dot >> spear
Spotted more :smoke: by SanFran WHY ARE WE MINING GAME ON GRASSLAND??? This is a 4 food/turn tile when irrigated! Mine being flooded

Turn 3--650 BC
DC sword >> sword
Atlanta sword >> temple (DC and Boston give 6 sword in 9; Atlanta 1 in 8--not worth it) Temple opens up more floodplains on expansion
SanFran galley >> courthouse (will use whip-change-whip)
Atlanta sword stays for MP (for now)
Embassy established in Berlin: size 4, 8 spt; Bis is at 70% sci. Berlin has horses and a market & xtra furs. Bis is the one who killed the Aztecs.

Turn 4--630 BC
:whipped: cat in SanFran--change to Rax for next whip up to courthouse
Germans/Iro/Mongols have tech parity
Rome lacks Philosopy
Embassy in Rome: Size 4, 9 spt; Pyramids, 100% sci, horses, settler in production

Turn 5--610 BC
Boston sword >> sword
New Orleans warrior >> warrior
:whipped: rax in SanFran change to courthouse
whipped granery in Seattle change to courthouse

Turn 6--590 BC
DC sword >> sword
NY settler >> worker
New Orleans warrior >> granery (should whip)
Embassy with Mongols

Turn 7--570 BC
Baltimore warrior >> granery (may want to whip-switch-whip to courthouse)
Dial back slider to 50% sci; Lit due in 1 18 gpt
Nada on diplo

Turn 8--550 BC
Lit learned >> Republic due in 14 @ 1 gpt--this is my best guess--AI usually go for constr.
NY worker >> worker
Boston sword >> sword
Seattle riots (ARRGH) :smoke: (forgot about the whip effects) taxman hired
Detroit spear >> library

Turn 9--530 BC
DC sword >> sword
Taxmen hired in Chicago and SanFran (whip effects)

IT--Germans begin Great Library--hmmm, I think my choice to get Lit. may have been weed

Turn 10--510 BC
NY worker >> settler (for soon to be conquered areas)
Embassy with Iro--Salamanca has two MINED plains cows :smoke:
That's it with the embassies--no need to spend the coins on the soon-dead Koreans and Zulu
Cincinnati founded on red dot >> warrior
Look at lux slider vs. specialists in DC/Chicago/SanFran/Seattle--keep like it is to stay at +2gpt vice -6gpt.

Thoughts:
Lit can be traded to Mongols for WM and 13g
9 vet swords loaded on galleys in DC
1 vet sword in Boston on MP
1 Vet sword in Atlanta on MP
Suggest that the next leader attack Korea at once w/7 sword and send in the rest after Korea is conquered. First great leader should be sent to Seattle to rush FP. Seoul should be razed--settle on coastal desert next to grassland. Will look at a dotmap for conquered isle tonight.

actually, if we get a GL, shoudlnt we move the Fp farther away since we wont have to build it. also, sorry about the worker management. it was late and i was trying to fifnish, but since were industious well be ok.

Who is up next?

Stormrider

Hmmm--yes, with a GL we might want to rush the FP in New Orleans vice Seattle.

@ BoG--ok on the workers...I just would only send 1-2 to a new city--not 4 each--concentrating on food improvements, because shields and commerce don't do much for corrupt cities.

I am a nazi about working unimproved tiles in core--that is :smoke: that must be avoided.

Shillen
Bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
(LordMongoose) (MIA) autoskip until we hear from him
Stormrider <==== UP
Grimjack <==== ON DECK

Save will be posted by ~ 6:00 pm EDT

so we are going to try to take out korea and zulu now? we have to be careful to try not to trigger a zulu golden age.

Grr typed up a nice long post, hit reply and got page not found error, hit back and my message was gone. :( Let's see if I can remember what I wrote.

Moving FP to New Orleans if we get a leader sounds good. You better kill off the Zulus and Korea before it comes back around to me though because I never get leaders with swordsmen.

Why are you building spearman everywhere, especially by foregoing a barracks? Do you think we'll be attacked anytime soon? I don't think we should be building regular units when we don't need those units anytime soon. They're also expensive to build at this point in the game. The military police won't even help much because we'll be a republic soon anyway.

I was building temples in corrupt cities because they were corrupt. It was either workers or temples for culture/score and we had plenty of workers IMO. This was before code of laws came around though so BoG probably just didn't notice to change them to courthouses instead. I would have probably changed San Fran to a courthouse too instead of a galley. That city is very close to washington and we would probably notice a huge benefit from a courthouse. But if you needed a galley then that's fine.

About workers...not only do you need to get all core cities improved first, but don't stack them in the ancient age! Sometimes stacking a worker and a slave is fine because of rounding, you can get a little more efficiency, but stacks of 3 or more are very inefficient. A stack of 3 workers can get a single tile done a little quicker, but they will get 3 tiles done a lot slower. So unless there's a tile that direly needs improvement, don't stack them. Later on when you have a full road system in place then stacking workers is fine because you don't waste a move between improvements. You can move and improve on the same turn. So when building railroads and cleaning pollution then stacking them is fine.

Ok copied before I hit reply. :crosses his fingers:

Oh yeah don't raze Seoul either. Capture it, starve it, grow it, abandon it. Hell you might even be able to build a few settlers there to help get the second continent settled. We're nowhere near the domination limit, there's no need to be razing cities. The only time I raze cities is when the civ has 10 times my culture and it isn't worth the flip risk or if I'm at the domination limit.

I got it, but might not be able to play until tomorrow.

@Shillen--I struggled with temples vs. MP for now--probably erred on the side of mp too much (especially in connected cities where we have to build the 20 shield unit) :smoke: to me.

Good point on not razing Seoul--hadn't thought about churning settlers there--but still debatable--some immediate slave workers may be nice--and THAT CITY LOCATION SUCKS. I leave it up to the conquering leader...also--do the Koreans/Zulus have contact with anyone? If not, then no rep hit for razing...and some of those Zulu cities are not well situated...(dotmap to follow)

I opted for a galley in SanFran first to bring the total to five--then immediately set on whipping in several steps to the courthouse (I think it's due in 2-3).

I also have workers heading to the forest near Seattle to lumberjack for FP shields (this can be vetoed--esp if we get a leader). There is also one lumberjack near SanFran to help the court (check this--we may be close enough to save this for the next build).

Agree on worker stacks--used at most two, but may have had more because of a fat-fingered keystroke. I'd get these guys back to the core and get ~12-15 tiles improved in each (for MM switching)--one at a time then on to next city. Only reason for stacking from for the time being should be for quick roading to a new city or for getting an improvement done fast because the city is about to grow.

Overall--we are in GREAT shape here. (We would be even better if I had not made the :smoke: Literature tech choice.

After the conquer--should look at whether any other warring would net us more lux--then infra push (with horsed mil) to support conquer with Cav/tanks (depending on timing of AI Nationalism/Rep Parts).

And yes...I am reverting back to :hammer: type....

also--do the Koreans/Zulus have contact with anyone? If not, then no rep hit for razing

I don't think you get a rep hit for razing cities, so I'll assume you meant attitude hit. But I believe attitude hits do transfer to civ's that have no contact, while rep hits do not. In GOTM17 I RoP raped egypt when I killed them, because they had no contacts with anyone and I didn't think there was any harm in it. Then when I finally managed to explore the world and meet the other civ's some of them were furious with me even though I had never done anything to them. I think we should play it safe. Hell it's a size 3 city, wouldn't we only get 1 slave from that? Not sure.

edit: Oops forgot, they do have contact with the other continent.

Yep--size 3 is not worth razing...

Finally, I can post the save...

And the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-510_BC.zip)

i was wondering what is more effecient, a stack or spread out, so now i know. i didnt see too many unimproved tiles in the core. guess ill have to look harder next time.

btw, what exactly constitutes a "sneek attack". in my solo game, im behinf magnetism and cant get to the IA because of it. everyone is furious with me becasue i "snuck attacked Korea" all i di was declare war on them. my forces where within in my border too.

Hmm, I am a bit confused. Stormrider posts a got it, and then Bam-Bam posts the save. :rolleyes:

I will wait eagerly on Stormriders results :)

Grimjack

Grimjack - I suppose that was a bit odd. :crazyeye:

My 'got it' was really just an acknowledgement that I am aware it is now my turn.

I now have the save as well as the concept that it is my turn ;)

Stormrider

Hmm, I am a bit confused. Stormrider posts a got it, and then Bam-Bam posts the save.

I will wait eagerly on Stormriders results

Grimjack

Sorry for the confusion Grimjack--I posted my turns at work yesterday morning but could not get the save posted until I got home :crazyeye:.

My apologies, I was up on another game yesterday as well and that took a bit longer than I expected (my first Diety level game). I am still under the 48 hours from when Ba-Bam posted, but it will be more like 53 hours by the time I post.

My apologies to all for the delay.

No problem--I was the one who posted turns without the save... :smoke: I, for one, will surely forgive you for putting time into first diety SG (I just started my first diety solo last night--Epic 26--probably no hope of doing before the reporting, but I figured it was about time).

0 510 BC
* Take a look around to orient myself

I
* Germany declares war vs Iroqois
* Boston Sword ->GL
* Philly Temple -> Mktplace
* Seattle Court -> Spear

1) 490 BC
* Move 3 full galleys towards Korea
* Move empty galley out 2 spaces. Two swords from Boston to load next turn
* Workers work
* Washingtom had entertainer, atlanta grew and needed one -> both are now scientists and dropped Republic from 11 to 10 turns


I
* Wash sword -> Temple
* St Louis spear -> temple
* Denver spear -> Courthouse

2) 470 BC
* Load new Wash sword into half empty galley and sortie towards Southern continent
* Load empty galley with 2 swords and move to South continent coast.
* Declare war on koreans. Move 3 full galleys to Korean coast and unload
* AI still has no techs that we don't

3) 450 BC
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) kills spear
* Swrod goes down to red, then kills spear and promotes to elite (2/5)
* Sword loses no points, kills archer and takes Soeul. I am not one to raze cities unless necessary, so I do not

We have detroyed the fledgling Koreans. Excuse me waiter, do you have any specials on the menu today? Why yes, our chef was about to start carving up a tender little Zulu empire. :mwaha:

* Load up swords and move galley towards Zululand
* Move workers around. Will chop some forests next turn

I
[Weed alert] Washington grew to size 9 and rioted. Gave entertainer [/weed alert]
* Our people so hated the Koreans, that they gave us a nice lawn for our palace as a token of their appreciation
* Rome starts Great Wall
* NY Settler. Decided to move N instead of to southern continent

4) 430 BC
* Move galleys towards zulu. rest our elite sword for some leader fishing later in the Zulu campaign
* Load worker onto galley to bring to south
* Declare war on Zulu. Unload the host at Bapedi's doorstep

I
* Zulu archer redlines a sword before he dies
* Several forests finish being chopped

5) 390 BC
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) filling archer in Bapedi. Bapedi auto-razes. Zulu archer next to ruins of Bapedi
* Construction fairly widespread, but no one has a reasonable trade for it.

I
[Weed alert] I did not protect the redlined swords. Lost 2. One killed Impi and is Elite. That was just so fricken stupid on my part [/weed alert]

* Houston Spear -> Temple
* Buffalo temple -> Spear

6) 370 BC
* 3/4 sword kills archer
* 2/5 sword kills 1/3 Impi

I)

* Archer suicides against one of our swords who is now elite (4/5)
* Wash temple -> Mktplace
* NY Spear -> Settler
* Atlanta temple -> spear
* Seattle Spear -> temple
* Romans start GL

7) 350 BC
* Dallas founded in the northlands
* rest up army so elites are in top shape

I Oh yeah baby - defending elite sword kills archer and gets great leader: Washington. Our unit is now called Stormrider Regiment.

8) 330 BC
* Move leader post haste back to America. - Load onto galley. I am not making an army. Basically, we have intense corruption in the northern half of our continent and we need the F.P.
* Move swords south into zulu territory

I
* SF riot - change taxman to entertainer
* Cinnci warrior ->spear

9) 310 BC
* Move swords to zimbabwe
* unload leader in America. Start him towards North
* Republic next turn slider at 4.5.1

I
* Republic -> Contruction. No revolt
* lost galley - hit wrong key at end of 310BC

10) 290 BC
* Slider to 2.7.1 4gpt / Contr in 7 turns
* move workers and some galleys - all else still has full movement

I will halt here as decisions need to be made:
* Great Leader should make Forbidden Palace IMHO. But both GL wonders are available. Still full movement on him for this turn
* If we use the leader on a wonder, the our sword SoD by Zimbabwe has 3 elites (2 fully healthy) for leader fishing
* We can get construction, wm, and gold off of AI for republic trade. Rome has 96 gold to offer. That would also make great wall available for leader
* Can switch to Polytheism if no one agrees with Construction (or trades for it) with no wasted beakers.
* Left the revolt to the next leaderGame (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-290_BC.zip)

i think that we should rush FP far away from palace, then if we get another leader make army or rush gl or something.

Stormrider--overall nice turn.

Won't complain about the :smoke: you self caught most of it. I cannot remember how many times I failed to protect an army.
I remember my first game at emperor (not that this is yours...) , I let cities rebel WAY too much. We have all had enough :smoke: so far in this game--thank God it is not Diety.

Reminder to all--we have got to be more careful on the city riots and protecting our armies...I do not think the rest of the opponents (after Shaka is crushed :hammer: ) will lay down so easy.

As for the leader--FP in New Orleans is my recommendation! We may just get lucky and pull another one for the GL. Great wall will not help us, and if we don't pull another leader, Boston might just win out--we have a much better developed civ than anyone,--industrious workers ROCK!

I suggest trade for construction--go for poly (usually one AI doesn't research), and revolt as soon as the war ends. BTW, if we do not get another leader, we should investigate one or more cities building wonders (if we cannot conclusively determine whether we can beat them to a wonder by looking at their tiles.)

I may have more ideas after looking at the save.

Shilllen <=== ON DECK
bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
Stormrider <=== JUST PLAYED
Grimjack <==== UP

after looking over the save, i would suggest building the FP in Memphis. That would give us use of all the bonus grassland in the north. i think the middle cities will be ok.


EDIT after looking over the save more closely, i elect New Orleans. otherwise, houston and all of the other cities wouldnt be productive at all. we really need courthouses.

Ok--quick look at the save, and I still think New Orleans is the right location for the FP rush. Memphis is a close second.

Looking at the invasion force....we ARE a bit thin here. I suggest a full scale rush on the remaining cities. Hit Zimbabwe hard--should fall in one turn. Then leave one unit to heal and head immidiately south to Bapedi (I think). Attack from the hill--ignoring anything but the city. I bet Shaka will send archers to get his city back--they will be irrelevant if you take his last city first.

This is a bit more hairy than I would like, but I think the penalty for not acting quickly will be a 10-20 turn delay in eliminating the Zulu.

We then need to get the settlers churning out of NY again to settle this island and the rest of ours. I recall that we HAVE sold our WM--then we need to get control of all of our land ASAP.

One other thing--as I was chided before--we need to stop building reg spears in cities--set them to temples and churn vet units out of cities with rax. We have no immidiate threats, and 20 shields is not worth it for reg units. Besides, we should be revolting for republic after Grimjack crushes the Zulu. :hammer:

I think if we cover our land and the Wang/Shaka Island (and the island nw of our land)...we should be able to slam dunk this game. :thumbsup:

My thoughts:

I agree with Nawleans as the F.P. site. Our continent is a builder's dream. It is large, has good terrain, and we are by ourselves. I think we would be up for any type of win.

We do not need too much additional military to take out the Zulu. I think once we take Zimbabwe, they will be broken as a Civ (unless we leave them with a city or two for future leader fishing).

In fact, the only reasons I can see for taking them out in the first place were to prevent them from having an entire continent to themselves, as it was only a matter of time before Seoul became a Zulu city as opposed to an American city and to grab an additional native luxury or two for ourselves.

The southern continent will never be productive for us. Any cities and military there will be a drain on the mainland. We do need a fairly strong presence there for luxuries and to prevent the other AI's from getting a stronghold close to our homeland.

I see the save. Will try to play later tonight. ( 4.30 PM here now. )

Will rush leader to NewOrleans for FP. See also if I can get a trooper or two to properly chastise Shaka.
I do not think southern continent will be a drain on us, since with the size of the main island, any lux would be worth more gpt than any reasonable upkeep. A single temple or library for some expanded borders are the only improvement needed in case it is hopelessly corrupted over there.

Grimjack

i think that we should keep zulu for leader fishing. just take out zimbabwe and then send a spear or two to protect our elites and let the zulu hordes have at it. also, the southern continent prolly wont be terribly productive, but the luxes would be nice.

It is my understanding that normally you have to research from behind in emperor. For some reason we seem to be ahead in this game though, but that may change quickly.
In that case, wouldn't keeping Zulus around also induce an increased cost in our research ?
Also, as americans, we are for some reason not militaristic. Isn't it possible that the chance for leaders is minimal at best ?
One more reason for conquest, is that it nets us two more cities. I wouldn't want to keep Zimbabwe if it was to be a constant flip risk.

Any one care to advice on pros/cons on conquerring, versus leaderfishing.

Grimjack

( WIll play soon now. Hoping for some advice first. )

We are not militaristic. Leaderfishing is not worth letting shaka live. We got the best use of a leader we could get in being able to locate the FP exactly where we want it--instantly.

Keeping them around will increase our tech costs.

We have enough for two good cores, have a nice city capable of producing lots of settlers, and industrious workers.

My recommendation-- :die: to shaka
Fill in his and our land asap--with the last land grab to occur in the island on the northwest.

Even though much of Shaka's land will be corrupt, we will be denying it to the AI and 7-8 extra cities with one or two commerce will be of great value in the long run. Especially if we can get them with courthouses and in WLTKD. They are close enough to be defendable. This is the next step in the evolution of the American nation--manifest destiny in our land and the monroe doctrine for our neighboring islands....

Upload server seems to be really really busy. Will uplaod as soon as it is available.

Meanwhile, turn report comes here.

290BC (1) STart to move Washington ( The leader :) ) towards New Orleans,

It will work, or it will not, here we go..
Start with our fresh elite, which promptly dies while redlining.
The next two Veterans, though, are up to the task, and one of them gets
a battlefield promotion as he marches into Zimbabwe.
An elite swordsman dies leaderfishing against an archer. sigh. Nothing is ever easy.

Change New Orleans to worker. ( nothing else would be finished before leader arrives. )
Workers are almost always in high demand

Hmm, Atlanta is size 7. Hope we can keep happines up.

We have no harbour. We want that. Change Temple -> Harbour in Chicago

MM New York to get settler in one.

Miami would riot, it gets a Taxman

IBT New York Settler -> Settler, New Orleans Worker-> Wealth

270BC (2) Some movement starting settler to move so he can found next to our FP

IBT Zulu move their stack of archers up to our swords. They also send out an Imp
towards zimbabwe. Will see if I can beeline to Hlobane and eliminate them
Atlanta SPear->SPear, Buffalo SPear -> Courthouse

250BC (3) Hurry FP in New Orleans

IBT New Orleans, FP -> Granary

230 (4) BC Swordsmen in range of Hlobane. Has elite impi on top

IBT Three zulu and one impi is in range of Zimbabwe. This better work out.

210 (5) BC Hlobane is destroyed, no leaders. For some reason Hlobane is autorazed. :hammer:
Thought the few culture points from that being their Capital would prevent autorazing.

Very well, SOme people want to go to the election urns, but with two turn left on Construction,
I veto the revolution.

Rome,Iroquois is up Polytheism and Construction, Bismarck Construction. Neither has republic.
Bismarch is at war with Hiawatha. Genghis Khan is broke and at the end of the rope.
I can get Construction/Polytheism and 180 gold out of Rome for Republic. I chose to hold off a
little while, since we will get Construction soon, and may get a better deal out of republic.
Also, it might be good to keep republic out of their grasp as long as possible.

IBT San Fransisco, Court->Granary, Dallas Warrior->Temple

190BC (6) MM Science and still get Construction in 1.
Trade World map around and gain some 15 gold. Germany and Iro still at war. Bismarck and Iro both broke,
Rome has some odd 200 gold.

IBT Construction, going for Poly. ( Only choice. ) Washingtoni Market->Library, New York Settler -> Settler
Atlanta Spear -> SPear, MIami, spear -> Courthouse, Mongols start Great Library

170 BC (7) Do some trading. Rome offers Poly, World Map and 200 gold for Republic.
I wait and see if I can get something else from him also. I spend 77 gold to investigate Pompeii, teh roman
city that builds Great Library. Waste of good money, hopelessly corrupt. Should have realized this.
Not much to wait for, I lead us down into Republic at 90 GPT in 8.1.1. Draw a medium heavy 6 turn one.

IBT Got an unavoidable starvation at Baltimore.

150BC (8) zzzz

IBT zzzz
130BC (9) ZZzzz
IBT zzz
110 BC (10) Land Settler/SPear pair on Zulu Continent.
This is a good spot, if it is worth it to buy a temple for them.
If we will not buy them a temple, then I suggest we settle closer to the
spices, so we can use the luxuries.
Rome still offers us all his gold + poly for Republic. Up to next leader if we should
go for it. ( Would this catapult us into next age ? )
I have not spent much time MMing after I went into anarchy. It is possible we can rearrange
for faster growth in some cities.

Link should be here

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1,110_BC.zip

Originally posted by Grimjack
290BC (1) STart to move Washington ( The leader :) ) towards New Orleans,

Start with our fresh elite, which promptly dies while redlining.
An elite swordsman dies leaderfishing against an archer.




You can only have one leader at a time.

Since you were moving an active leader, there is no leader fishing.

i was thinking that with us about to go into a lull, feel free to play 20 turns if nothing happens. if something important does happen, or you dont feel comftorable, then play 10

Dang--forgot to mention that in my earlier post...

Thanks for the help LK--to bad we forgot to discuss that earlier...

Well--I did a quick shadow attack after the FP completed (just to see if it made a difference)--

Don't feel bad Grimjack--I couldn't pull a leader even when we didn't have one....

Nice set of turns though--the "Western" Hemisphere is secure!!!

Shilllen <==== UP
bewareofgnomes <=== ON DECK
Bam-Bam
Stormrider
Grimjack <=== JUST PLAYED

Few comments.

1) Why did we wait so long to switch to republic? Get out of despotism as soon as possible. I don't think it would have hurt the war against the Zulu and even if it did, so what?

2) You really should have traded republic for poly/construction. We doodled around in the ancient age far too long, Germany is already one tech into the middle ages at least. No reason to research a tech the AI already has. Easier to research something else and trade for it. The AI's will have republic soon anyway, so I will probably trade it for poly and whatever gold I can get, which would mean we wasted our time researching construction and however far into poly we are now.

3) Do we want the Great Library? Even if we get it we're only going to get a couple techs from it. We had the tech lead, we could have kept it and had a military advantage. The Great Library is a crutch that is almost never needed. And I'm still not sure we'll get it first. The Germans are building it in their capital, a size 7 city. Our city is stuck at 6 until it gets an aqueduct. I think that aqueduct is more important too since that's our Colossus city. Each pop point gets one more commerce than normal. I'm really tempted to waste 60 shields and switch it to an aqueduct.

How close are we to polytheism? I can't tell while we're in anarchy. If we're really close then I won't trade republic for it, but if we still have 4+ turns left I probably will. Especially considering we have 3 more turns of anarchy left.

Oh yeah another note on the Great Library. Since we're taking a militaristic approach to this game it would be really easy to just capture whatever city builds it. With the shape of their continent we can pretty much unload troops pretty close to any city we want.

How did the Koreans manage to get Seoul to size 3? Far as I can tell that's not possible without a harbor and they didn't have one. It will reach size 2 and be stunted. So we won't get any settlers out of there. We can still use it for a worker factory but it won't be a very good one. It also uses up one of our core city slots. I might disband it. We already screwed the AI attitudes with those 2 autorazed cities anyway.

edit: Just checked all the saves, I guess they never got beyond size 2. I thought they were 3 at some point but I guess I was mistaken. Anyway that explains why they never built a second city. Talk about a flaw with the AI, settling in a location where they can't possibly grow to size 3.

Shillen--Grimjack just started poly before the revolt. Maybe one turn invested there.

Agree with Shillen--though I HATE to waste shields (esp that many) we need Boston to grow. GL will not help us--we are near the lead here and have the economy to crank out the cash in republic. The only reason to keep it going would be to get another wonder-- Hanging gardens may be useful with only 3 native lux and such a large landmass. Sun Tzu would be *nice*--hey--it's your call. Just not GL...

I think we have been spoiled by such an optimal start and may not be putting as much care as we need to into the game--we need to tighten this game up and take it to the AI :hammer: Set us back on track Shillen!

Preturn: Zimbabe switched to temple to grab wheats. Seoul switched to worker, will disband after it grows/produces worker. Washington changed to harbor. Atlanta changed from spearman to marketplace. Detroit changed from library to harbor (we don’t want it working our colossus city’s tiles). Cincinnati was founded 1 tile away from coast – it will have 2 coastal tiles that only produce 1 food. Memphis, Seattle, Miami, Houston, Denver, Dallas all switched to marketplace. I’m going to stick with Grimjack’s decision to hold onto republic. We’ll see how it turns out. Great Library switched to aqueduct, resulting in a 160 shield aqueduct instead of 100 shields, not so bad when you look at it that way. Buffalo switched to aqueduct. New Orleans switched to marketplace.

90 BC (1): Boston aqueduct->marketplace. All these stacked workers are going to drive me crazy hehe. Working hills/mountains this early in the game = bad. Those tiles won’t be used until we have size 12 cities.

70 BC (2): Los Angeles founded 1 tile away from river, but was worth it to reduce overlap. Set to temple to close gaps. Cleveland founded on second continent next to spices. Set to granary.

IT: Bismarck asks for alliance vs the Iroquois. No thanks.

50 BC (3): Seoul builds worker. We’re a Republic! Rome completes the Great Wall. Seoul abandoned. Buffalo switched to worker, our FP core is poorly developed.

Argh game crashed when I went to domestic advisor screen. My first crash ever with ptw v1.21. Loaded 50BC autosave.

50 BC – part 2 (3): Wow, we can get poly in 4 turns at 30% science. I guess since everyone knows it already. Lux is an issue though, set to 20% until we get spices hooked up. We can’t hook them up until Astronomy though. We’re still making 55gpt.

30 BC (4): Philadelphia marketplace->aqueduct (man I know I checked the tile it was on before making the dotmap and it produced 1 commerce). Buffalo worker->aqueduct.

IT: The people offer to expand our palace for the first time. Iroquois are building the Great Library in Salamanca.

10 BC (5): Scout disbanded. Science reduced to 10% (Poly in 2 still).

10 AD (6): New York settler->settler.

30 AD (7): We learn polytheism. Germany and Rome both have Monarchy + Engineering. Trade the Republic to Rome for Engineering, 154 gold, and world map. Bismarck wants both Republic and 200 gold for monarchy, screw him. Chicago harbor->temple. St. Louis temple->marketplace. Switch Washington to the Great Lighthouse. I noticed none of the AI’s are building it. It will allow us to hook up spices and also speed up our conquest of the other continent. Next player can decide to switch it to Sun Tzu’s if they want, or they can build Sun Tzu’s in another city. Research set to Feudalism at 80% (5t/-79gpt). We have 961 gold in our treasury.

50 AD (8): Nothing important.

70 AD (9): New Orleans marketplace->library. New York settler->worker (need to improve hills by Washington). Romans are building Hanging Gardens. Science down to 70% (Feudalism in 3 still).

90 AD (10): Denver marketplace->library. Kansas City founded near New Orleans (there were unused tiles). Set to marketplace. Science reduced to 60%. Iroquois will give us Monarchy straight for Engineering. I don’t think we need it, but it’s up to the next player.

Ok once we get all our marketplaces done and a few libraries we really need to switch gears to barracks/sun tzu and military units. We should make our first strike with knights and hopefully finish them off with cavalry or maybe even before that. I’d say getting geared up for war should take high priority over settling the second continent. Try to build a lot of horsemen before getting chivalry. Forget about defensive units. The AI is absolutely awful at waging transcontinental wars. Even when we do build some defensive units, only put them in the coastal cities. Our inland cities don't need them. Before declaring war, make sure we have enough units to attack with to make the war short, with minimal war weariness. If you can, get them to declare war on you by kicking them out of our territory.

BoG1-90_AD.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-90_AD.zip)

got it, will try to play tonight.

im having mixed feelings on my turn. didnt build up much military, but got pretty good infrastructure going.

Preturn -notta

IT -NY worker> settler Seattle mplace > rax. We are second happiest, behind only iro.

Turn 1 -worker movements. Tweak slider to 40%, still in two. +51

IT- Atlanta riots :weed:

Turn 2 -tweak slider to + 84 were up feudalism and engineering on everyone except bis and rome, who have engineering. Were down monarch.

Turn 3 -worker movements

IT- Boston mplace> library berlin has TGL. Thats ok because he doesnt need it

Turn 4 -raise lux to 30%

IT- NY settler > settler

Turn 5 - found san diego

IT - Bis and Hiawatha make amends seattle rax> horsemen New Orleans library> rax

Turn 6 -worker movements

IT- miami mplace > horseman

Turn 7 - tweak science slider

Turn 8 -notta

IT- NY settler> settler Denver library> rax

Turn 9 -notta

IT - Seatle horseman > horseman St louis mplace > rax New Orleans rax > horseman memphis
mplace > library. The people love me!! They kindly build a second story. Guess they don’t share my oponion that I got nothing done.

Turn 10 - left with some worker movements.

and the save...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-290_BC.zip

btw, rome and germany have been building sun since about turn 6 or 7. lighthouse due in 5. due to dire lux, i suggest we keep it. lux and palace location are only two things keeping this from perfect game so far.

hi,

Some explanations only on why I did some of the stranger things.

Right or wrong, I had thought we should wait for Republic until war was over. I will know better next time.

Also as regards Republic trading, I saw that Germany was/is a very big country, and I didn't want to make them stronger than necessary, instead hoping they would switch into Monarchy. At the least, this would have given them two rounds of anarchy.

Didn't think on the leader stuff. :( My bad. Of course I knew I couldn't have two leaders.

As to second continent, It is as far as I can tell only a placfe where we can get resources. I do not see any need to invest anything in that continent, except perhaps temples for a few more squares towards domination.

Grimjack

BoG, you had the wrong link for the save...here is the correct link

BoG1 270 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-270_AD.zip)

I got it.

my bad.will be more careful next time.

Preturn: Settler routed to cow hill NE of LA. Worker enroute to DC hills--this should have been done long already! Harbor rushed in Cleveland :smoke: should have waited until Lighthouse was built to save cash on the rush.

280 AD (1): Atlanta market -> library. Miami horse -> granery :hmm: No rax in Miami? Cleveland harbor->library.

290 AD (2): Boston library-> Sun Tzu (keep or a good prebuild). Phili aqueduct-> library. Houston market->aqueduct. Detroit Galley -> aqueduct. St. Louis changed to library from rax.

300 AD (3): Chicago temple -> market. Seatle horse -> horse. New Orleans horse -> granery (This should replace NY as our settler factory for the northern region). Denver rax -> horse. The people added steps to our palace. Richmond founded NE of Memphis -> granery (two cows). Slider to 40% sci -> Theo still in 3.

310 AD (4): SanFran aqueduct -> library. Buffalo aqueduct -> granery. Baltimore market -> library. :laugh: Bismark is a monarch!!!??!!! This is too much--the only scientific left and he is the only monarchy??!! :smoke:

320 AD (5): Washington builds the Great Lighthouse -> library. This brings our spices online! NY settler -> settler. Dallas market -> aqueduct. Mongols started Hanging Gardens. Silks and Wines to Caesar (only trade partner available) for all his 1g, his WM, and furs (BTW his has no iron hooked up--it's in his territory [pimp] ). Lux to 20%--can go to 10% with temple in SanFran (it's ordered up) and connecting Zimbobwe. Slider @ 30% sci--Theo in 1 @ 140 gpt.

330 AD (6): We learn Theology. We are up Mono and Theo on Bis and Caesar--they have monarchy. Others are behind eng and feudalism. Education ordered w/deficit science (-63 gpt) in FOUR turns. Lux @ 10%--SanFran and Zimbobwe get taxmen. Seatle horse -> horse. The people expand our palace.

340 AD (7): Atlanta riots :wallbash:. I CHECKEDthe cities--guess I just missed it. Taxman hired. New Orleans gets a granery w/ a chop -> temple (will get another chop assist). Denver horse -> horse. Seatle changed to temple (w/chop assist).

350 AD (8): Zimbobwe gets a temple w/chop assist and a rush -> granery (2 plains wheats should be irrigated so that this can be the settler factory for this island)--taxman fired. Miami granery -> library. St. Louis library -> rax. MM New Orleans for =10 fpt 10 spt. This is the settler/worker factory for the remainder of our land's colonization. Las Vegas founded NNW of Richmond on coastal hill next to silks -> temple.

360 AD (9): NY settler -> temple (end of settler phase for NY--IMO). Memphis library -> granery.

370 AD (10): We learn education ..still up same on others. Banking ordered at positive cash flow (treas @ 261g)--due in 6 @ 36 gpt. We have a great economy! Washington library -> university. Denver horse -> horse.
Wines, feudalism, iron, and 2 gpt to Temujin for his ivory. He is the only one without feudalism, next to rome (who has iron but it's not hooked up) and has no iron in his territory. His is also likely not the first target for us. Taxmen fired in SanFran/Atlanta. Seatle/NY changed from temple to library.

Next up--please keep a close eye on the lumberjacks and time the chops to when at least ten shields are left on what is being built. NY should build its infrastructure--New Orleans should start settler production after the temple is complete. Zimbabwe should start settler/worker production after the granery is complete (may need to rush). Horse factories should continue churning (remember either should be @ 10 spt or 15 spt)--we should go after chivalry after banking, I think. Or trade mono if the AI's get it first.

EDIT: There is a settler in a galley by the southern continent that should be placed west of the razed city on the coast. This will connect Zimbabwe. The worker is irrigating the desert to get to the wheat sw of the city site.

I think our first attack should be the Iroquois--they have dyes and gems in the cities closest to Washington--and they just learned feudalism and may not have iron hooked up--check this. Two more natural lux near DC is too tempting to pass up. Upgrade the vet swords to MedInf (keep the elite for fishing) and upgrade those horses when we get chiv. Should have 15 knights and 5-10 medinf for invasion.

And here's the save.... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-370_AD.zip)

Go America!! I've got it.

It looks like my turn will be spent preparing an invasion force. The American people will have a war of expansion to gain land and resources from a Native American tribe (Iroqois). I guess there is a first time for everything ;)

Good turns guys.

I have a couple concerns though as usual. Why are we following the top half of the tech tree? I don't see us building any universities or banks for a long time, it will just slow down our conquest. We should be following the bottom half to military tradition, and researching chivalry when we have enough horses to upgrade.

I was actually thinking we should hit Rome first. The Iroquois are the closest to us but their territory is filled with jungle/mountains which makes them much harder to kill. Since our galleys won't be able to cross the ocean to the west, the next closest civ is Rome. Rome has lots of nice flat terrain and I think won't be too hard to conquer with our knight advantage if we strike them right after learning chivalry. If we can knock them out then there'd only be one big civ left.

edit: Ok just looked at the save. The Iroquois actually have 4 luxuries for us. So I've changed my mind, we should hit them first. But that jungle terrain is still foreboding. I hate losing the 2 movement of the knights. It'd probably be best if we hit the Germans after the Iroquois, ship them by boat across the channel there. There's 4 moves between the Iroquois city of Tyendenaga and the German city of Brandenburg, would make a good transport location where units can be shipped and still move after being dropped off. Going north through the jungle to the Mongols or Romans would be too slow.

Remember we're going to need a lot of galleys too, I'd suggest about 12 of em. We have 5 so far. We also need a lot more money. It's 80g per horse upgrade and 40 gold per sword upgrade. So I'd guess we'll need about 1500 gold. I'd switch research to invention and lower science to 40%. I'd also lower lux to 0% and hire an entertainer in Washington and a tax-collector in San Fran. We gain 54gpt from lowering lux. We'll learn invention in 7 and earn around 200gpt for upgrading/rushing.

the reason i started on the top half was to speed up research, not necissarily thu universities and banks (though those help) but because the ai pursues the bottom half and we might be able to get some straight up trades. i was aiming for democracy, because in the past the ai will trade upwards of 200 gpt, enough to get you throug to TOE. but whatever is fine with me. i guess it just a habit to go through the upper half.

I also continued on the upper half in the thought that the AI's are pursuing the lower half. Knowing that we are now kicking their butt on research (even at first civ costs)--we would get even more of a leap by either trading for their researched techs or researching a few of the lower halfs at second or third civ costs. I also wanted to get lots of 30shield horses built to help defray the shield costs of knights.

I like hitting rome, too, but agree that the iro should be the first hit. We should hit rome hard just about the time we run up the lower half to miltrad.

Suggest next player (Stormrider) throttle back on the research to bump up gold for horse upgrade. Also, many of the cities that were building infrastructure (with chop assists--I did LOTS of lumberjacking on my turn) that have at least 10spt should and rax should head straight into horse production.

Stormrider >> UP
Grimjack >> ON DECK

Duly noted.

My wife is going out for the evening, so I will have some unadulterated Civ time after work (providing the baby cooperates !!!)

In any case, I will post tonight.

0) 370 AD

* Slider to 6.3.1 Banking in 11 (was 6) gpt 200 (was 36)
* Richmond Court -> Settler : I do not want anyone else on our continent!!!
* I am sure it does not really matter, but it always sets me on edge when I have NO defenders in a city: i.e. most of the North lands

I)
* Several cities kick into WLTKD.
* ATL Lib -> Courthouse
* NO Temple -> Catapult. A horse would have wasted most of the shileds from the forest.

* Rome building Leo's - Invention

1) 380 AD
* MM cities with lumberjacks :)
* Workers work
* Settler in zululand dropped to site of former city b/t the two existing cities
* Settler on mainland moves North
* Horses continue to collect in Seattle

I)
* SF Temple -> Mktplc
* Zimbabwe expands
* St Louis Rax -> Horse
* Monglos start Sun Tzu's

2) 390 AD
* Pheonix founded in Zululand
* Zimbabwe chnaged from Granary to Settler. Either one will take forever, but a Settler will at least claim more land...

I)
* Philly Library -> Rax
* Seattle Library -> Horse
* Buff Granary -> Settler
* NO Catapult -> Horse
* Denver Horse -> Pike

3) 400 AD
* SD Granary switched to temple to expand borders to get game

I)
* St Louis Horse -> Pike
* KC Mktplac -> Temple

4) 410 AD
* Move workers around

I)
* Zimbabwe riots. No biggie as it is completely corrupt
* NO Horse -> Pike (I hate undefended cities)
5) 420 AD
* Not much noteworthy (treasury is at 1272 GP)
* Everyone up Monarchy on us. Rome still has monopoly on Invention, we have on on Monotheism

I)
* Seattle Horse -> Pike
* Denver Pike -> Temple
* Memphis Granary -> Temple

6) 430 AD
* Alberqerque founded -> temple

I)
* Miami library -> Rax
* Buffalo settler -> mktplc
* St Loius Pike -> Pike
* NO Pike -> horse (2 turns to produce)
* LA mktplc -> Library

7) 440 AD
* not much

IT)
* NY library -> mktplc
* Houston aquaduct -> library

8) 450 AD
* not much

I)
* Seattle Horse -> Horse
* Philly Rax -> Horse

* Germany builds HG
Cascade: Rome - Leo's
Monglos - Sun's

9) 460 AD
* Slider to 7.2.1 - Banking next turn
* Germany has invention. Rome / Germany will give Monarchy / Invention / WM / All gold (germany has none) for Monotheism.

Will hold off for next leader to make trades

I)
* Banking -> Chivalry
* Atl (forgot what it built) -> Bank
* St Louis Pike - Horse
* Balt Library -> Temple

* Iro / Germany -> Leo's


10) 470 AD

Summary:
* Mixed Horses with some infrastructure. 12 Vet / 1 reg at Seattle. NO producing one every 2 turns. St Louis/Seattle every 3 turns
* Can change research as no beakers yet
* Chivalry in 4 (no matter how much research) so slider is at 5.4.1 (163 gpt)
* Treasury ar 2415 gold. I did not spend a penny (maybe weed, but it allows flexibility for the leader who starts the invasion of Rome / Iroqois)
* Can get 2 for one for Monotheism (Invention / Monarchy) + gold + WM
* Settler in Northwest can settle in Northwest
* Settler next turn on Richmond can settle to the north. After that, we may have one or two more city spots

* Do not chop last 2 forests at NO (New Orleans) they allow 15 spt

Save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-470_AD.zip)

We should NOT trade for monarchy--w/HG built, there is nothing in it for us. It could have been nice, as it would have kicked off our GA. Now we have to wait until Hoover. I think we should try and win this before then (ok--being WAY aggressive here...)

Before we ready the invasion force--we should round up our various MPs and swords and make sure we send some vet MIs along with the knights. With all that jungle in the Iros area, there may be a couple of cities where the movement of knights will not make a diff. Probably should not delay the invasion past Shillen's turn--we should hit them hard and fast now--maybe even going into MOW (mobile oscillating war) with iro and then rome (i.e., go after iro---take several cities, get good peace deal, then :hammer: rome--repeat ad nauseum)

Now we have to wait until Hoover. I think we should try and win this before then (ok--being WAY aggressive here...)

I'll be disappointed if it takes us longer than cavalry to achieve conquest. That's kind of why I really don't agree with researching the top half of the tech tree. We shouldn't ever need those techs.

I got it.
Will see if I can establish a beachhead for Shillen to exploit. ( I assume we have transports enough for our forces. )

Do we have settlers for new cities, or should we use Iros citizens ?
If we have a definite culture advantage, then we might just as well try to keep the cities, but it would feel safer to just raze them, and build our own cities. With the distance to our capitol, flipping is a significant risk.

I will try to play tonight.
Grimjack

@ Grimjack--from my look at the save, we are still galley-poor (5). Need twice that for a effective massive troop transport.

@ Shillen--I think you are correct. We have such a strong position that taking it to the AI should not be a problem. I expect slow going with knights, but the moment we get cav--we should completely roll...

I realized my lack of galley building towards the end of my turn and forgot to mention it. As we probably need at least 12 more horses and some pikes for the assault, building the galleys should not slow down the invasion timetable. We have a nice cash situation and we can do some rushing if necessary.

ALSO forgot to mention:
If you prefer upgrading horses as opposed to building the actual knight, we should research something else before chivalry. Or build them like crazy for the next 4 game turns.

i would go for upgrade like crazy and research something else at almost no science.

NO wars, no trades, and lots of troops built.
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-560_AD.zip

Here is longish report:

470AD (1) Looking over the lay of the land, I see we have Chivalry in 9, and two harbours.
I can find only four galleys. I rush the aqueduct in Detroit, and the marketplace in Chicago
MM Atlanta for no food growth and 15 SPT, and switch to Pike. We will need pikes to.
Switch Buffalo into Worker/Settler factory. We need one, and Buffalo will have a hard time
amassing 10 spt, So I go for 5 food/ 5 shields strategy here. We severely lack workers. Our
best cities are working unimproved tiles. This is waste.

IBT: Switch cities finished with production into war-mode, trying to go for 10/15 spt, for
those fast horses/pikes/cats. Make a regular Galleon also

480AD(2) Move workers, trying to decide on where to launch. Observe a yellow galley going for
our far coast. Will have to cover most spots there fast.

IBT: Even more cities are switched into pikes/Cats

490AD(3) More workers. First troops are starting to mass at Philly.

IBT: Continue to produce units, Skim a worker out of size 12 cities with full food box.

500(4) Lower Science to 30 and Chivalry in one still.

IBT: A German galley also comes snooping. The Mongol galley disappears into the fog at our far eastern coast.
Chivalry->Invention. I still do not think I get enough payment for our monopoly tech oc MOnotheism, so I might
as well research this. It will cost us four turns of research, but it will cost AIs more, since we research at
last civ. This may of course be :smoke:
Mongols are building Leonardo's.

510AD(5) Decision time. I draw uop a dotmap, and think for a while.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoGPic1.gif
Sorry about teh crappy quality. Paint messed pic up.
Grey dot is dismissed, as that would leave us with the entirety of the jungle to traverse.
Green dot can be landed upon in first turn. This would leave us with four squares of jungle before
we can reach first Iro City.
Red dot is good. Would get us close and good. This would force us to wait until we have entire fleet
collected though, since we would have a long time to get reinforcements.
Brown dot seems like it would make logistics a nightmare.
I will land at green dot, and build at Pink dot. This will let me shuttle
troops before I need to declare war, and we could even have a road through the jungle
before it was time to use it.
Spend 80*13 to upgrade horses. Two horses left unupgraded. I had sent them away to our eastern coast
to have a looksee what the Mongols are about.

IBT: This is ironic. This very turn, an Iroq settler moves up to pink dot. Sigh

520AD(6) Change of plans. I will take the long lines, and instead set up for us to go for the jugular,
hoping Iro would cede us the jungle cities in a future peace deal. I start to move towards brown dot.

IBT: Bribe caesar 250 Gold to renew our luxuries deal. This is hopefully last time for that one.
I will not trade him mono, nor chivalry. Iros settle at Pink dot.

530AD(7) STart to unload troops by White dot. Settlet, two*Medieval and a warrior. Notice a Mongolian landing force
They have landed a spear/settler combo by our easternmost wines.

IBT: Mongols found Ceyr on our continent :( Iros doesn't like our ships in their territory. I say I will move them
Germans sail hither and tither with their galley. Possibly Mongols took their intended landing site.

540AD(8) We are still monopoly for monotheism and Chivalry. I will see if Germany has Gunpowder after I get
invention and trade for that. I set a few cities on courthouses in order for them to go to 15 shields per turn.
Found Pittsburg in Iro country. Disband a warrior and rush walls. Their mounted warriors could make some serious
dents into our PIkemen otherwise. With this city on hills and having walls, losses should be small.

IBT: Get Invention, set sights on Gunpowder.

550AD(9) Looks at AIs. Caesar seems to be the AI powerhouse. He now has Chivalry somehow. He also has gunpowder.
He doesn't have Theology though. He wants spices, theology, world map and 510 gold for
Gunpowder. This is a heavy trade, so I set my research to this for GunPowder in four at +66 gpt. )
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoGPic2.jpg

IBT: Rome demands spices. I tell him to stick it, and he counters that he was only joking. He really is broke,
as he has no money, and wouldn't even pay 2 gpt for spices with the large empipre he has.

560AD(10) Move lots of ships. ooo, just discovered some weed. I have upgraded some regular warriors to Medieval inf. :(
Leave here for next leader to decide. I am fairly certain we could declare and raze the size 6 Iro city, and after that
turtle for three turns until reinforcements come.
I didn't want to trade with Romans, since I thought he would gain more than we, since we research so fast now,
when we follow him. We should perhaps start a wonder or two. Sistines, Leos and Sun Tzu are all good, but I
personally would prefer Leos over SunTzu. Most of our fighting would be at other continent, so we would gain more
money with leos.



Grimjack

We are still sorely lacking in workers. I would have liked to use workers to flesh out our least corrupt cities. I think we have enough troops, we just need to get them to front. Plan is to strike at core, and get Iros to cede jungle cities to us.

uhh. grimjack, neither the saves nor the pictures work, but it looks like you had a good turn establishing a beachead. i think that maybe the mongols should go after the iros, as they are impeding on our manifest destiny.

There. It was very late last night, and I didn't check closely enough. HOpefully both save and pictures work now.
Grimjack

they work now thanks. why did you settle all that way south? it seems too far wawy for reinforcements (forgive me if im missingf something obviuos)

I had intended to settle on pink dot, but indians beat me to it. I wanted to settle somewhere and start to ship troops over while I had peacetime.

I also wanted to cripple Iros as soon as possible, and then take care of their jungle cities at our leisure. Having a 15 Knight SoD would let us steamroll Iros two/three productive cities, preventing counterattacks. They do have their riders, and will get a golden age if the win a battle. ALl the more important to have a hard hammer :hammer: in their core.
I realize reinforcements will be slow and few. ALternative would have been to settle in grey dot. This would have led to a slow offensive.
Grimjack

i havent looked at the save, but how close is pittsburg to the iro core? als, we will want a reax their asap.

I got it.

Pittsburg is two squares from their next biggest city, and five or six from their capitol.
We will need to strike quickly, or we may get flipped, since we are very close.

Grimjack

Preturn: First order of business is pillaging our iron sources. City window shows 2 sources but I see 3. I check diplo screen and we’re trading iron to Mongols? Why are we trading a strategic resource to a future enemy? Boston switched to Leonardo’s. Lots of cities switched to barracks/horsemen. We have courthouses in core cities for some reason.

570 AD (1): Move units around. Lots of knights/horsemen built.

IT: Mongol deal ends. I trade silks, spices, wines, 18gpt for ivory. Probably the last time we’ll need to trade for luxuries since we’ll be capturing some from Iroquois.

580 AD (2): More troop movements, pillage the other iron source. Disbanded all regular warriors. Science down to 40 (gunpowder in 1).

590 AD (3): We learn gunpowder. Research set to chemistry at 70% (4t/-13gpt). We have saltpeter but it’s not connected, I’d suggest not connecting it since muskets are very expensive. Connect it for cavalry. Iroquois have saltpeter but they’d have to road both jungle and a mountain to connect it, so that will take them a while, not to mention they don’t have gunpowder yet. Rome does not have saltpeter. :goodjob: Germans and Mongols do.

600 AD (4): Iron reconnected. We have 18 knights, 13 horsemen, and more cities building horsemen. Tampa Bay founded on NE tip. Harbor rushed in Pittsburg.

610 AD (5): Orlando founded on second continent. Ok it’s time for war. Allegheny captured with no losses. German town founded on saltpeter on second continent (where Seoul was). Science down to 60%.

IT: Germans and Romans building Sistine Chapel.

620 AD (6): Temple rushed in Pittsburgh to grab gems. St. Regis captured with no casualties. Salamanca captured with no casualties, but lots of retreats (demonic spearmen). No sign of pikemen yet even though they do have iron.

IT: We lose a knight to an Iroquois knight.

630 AD (7): We learn chemistry. Set to metallurgy at 60% (6t/+116gpt). We could get it in 4 but I still have horsemen to upgrade and need the cash. We’re also going to need cash when we get military tradition. Too many injured knights to attack another town (we need a leader to rush Sun Tzu on this continent).

IT: Rome declared war on Mongols. :goodjob:

640 AD (8): Regular knight loses to 2hp spearman. Lose another knight to Iroquois knight.

650 AD (9): Lot of troop movements.

660 AD (10): Tonawanda captured with no casualties. We attack Grand River, swordsmen kills 2 of our knights, didn’t bring enough troops I guess. Iroquois’ only connected iron source pillaged.

Ok we have 32 knights and 2 horsemen to upgrade. I left most of the fun for BoG. We’ll have gems connected next turn. Capture grand river and rush a temple for the incense connection in 7. We’ll get cavalry in the first half of Bam-Bam’s turn probably. I’m hoping we can finish the Iroquois and Germans before the AI gets cavalry. Don’t worry so much about the Zulu continent. Let the AI settle there if they want, they’ll just be corrupt cities anyway and they won’t be able to produce any units there. We can take those cities at our leisure.

Upload server isn't working, I'll post the save in a bit.

alright, nice tuen shillen. i like the pillaging of the iron. i do that alot. why build knights when you could build horsemen for half cost?

Here's the save.

BoG1-660AD.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-660AD.SAV)

ggot it and im playing right now.

General BoG takes command of the Awesome American Army. He mourns the death of Our great leader Shillen, who died in the brave attack on grand river. The American knights WILL liberate the entire world from their evel dictator and oppressive rulers. First on the list are the Iroquois.

Preturn - I see an elite swordsman. Will upgrade him and go leader fishing

IT - archer redlines knight and dies. Elite swordsman kills knight but has only 2 hit points left

Turn 1 - bombard iro galley. Capture grand river and suffer no casualties. Kill off three archers (I only see four) and take no damage exceot one redlined knight.

IT - iro archer impales itself on vet knight. Knight loses two hp, but promotes

Turn 2 -lose1 knight attack niagra falls, but kill 2 pikes and infure another

IT military tradition due in 5 at +50

Turn 3 - capture nigra falls. Lose a 2hp elit attacking a redlined reg spear :sad: capture cattaguras with little damage.

Turn 4 -notta

Turn 5 -take oil springs with 0 damage

Turn 6 - capture oka.

Turn 7 -notta

Turn 8 -capture mauch chaunk, work on hooking up dyes

Turn 9 -capture tyendanaga

IT Military tradition done. Start on economics

Turn 10 - destroy iro city on our continent, capture caughnawaga left all other movement up to whoever is next. 1 iro city left, have a stack of knights due there in 2 turns. No research done on economics, so feel free to trade it. I wanted smiths. I regret to inform you that I died capturing caughnawaga. Who will take my place?

and the save ...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-760AD.SAV

Got it.

BTW--the iron was traded to Mongols for the express purpose of getting them in a better position to war with Rome--I wanted them to gas each other before we invaded. My thought was that 20 turns of iron to one of them would not make much of a diff to us with a Cavalry force.

Nice moves with not hooking up Saltpeter, and disconnecting our iron for faster buildup of our mounted force.
Never thought of doing such a move.
Great learning experience. Sounds like we are thouroughly thrashing the Iroquois.

Grimjack

well, i hooked up thew saltpeter a coupla turns before my untimely demise (i was 100 years old) the iron was already hooked up. and yes we are threashing the iros. the only thing that i saw besides minimal defense were 5 archers (one defending :weed: 4 trying to attack but intercepted by knights on turn 1!) and 1 elite sword (also done on turn one) other then that, i dont think a saw ANY units outside of a city,

Pre-turn--760 AD

Veto econ for astronomy. We need more transport capability, and CoP will help our research, and AI's will not be going here--with all this war they will head for MilTrad. Decide that now is time to take care of Mongols--the Roman's have hammered them,.and they are on our continent. Will take all nearby cities while mopping up Iros and preparing for either Bis or Caesar. Rax rushed in Salamanca and Cattaraugus to support knight upgrades. LA changed to aqueduct--one extra cav not needed--and this city is not above 10spt. MM San Diego for growth in 1--same time for market. ARGH--DC cannot get above 19 spt...Fire taxman (taxman??) in NO to get above 20 spt. NY can go the the magic 20 spt after delivering next cav. Remember--try to keep cities producing cav at "magic" numbers 16 for cav in 5, 20 for cav in 4, 27 for cav in 3, etc. Firing of specialist and clowns gets Astro in 7 @ 96gpt. Press end turn.

770 AD(1)

Salamanca rax -> temple. Zimbabwe settler -> court. NY cav -> cav (in 4 @ 20 spt). Atlanta cav -> cav. Seattle cav -> cav. Cattaraugus rax -> temple. Dallas cav -> court (too small for meaningful mil prod). Las Vegas granery -> court. Move troops in place to wax Iro next turn. Waiting on waxing of Iro before attacking Mongols--so that we can get troops in place and minimize WW. Rax rushed in Caughnawanga--many knights here.

780 AD (2)

Washington cav -> cav. Phili cav -> galley. Miami cav -> musket. New Orleans cav -> cav. Baltimore cav -> galley Denver cav -> cav. Caughnawaga rax -> spear (will be upgraded when connected). Chondote autorazed w/no casualties (one retreat) and one promotion. Kahnawake autorazed w/no casualties. And we get this message...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG-Iros.jpg

War is declared on Mongols. Choyr (on our continent) is captured--only 1 spear defending...temple ordered. Buffalo switched to settler. Decide the war with the Mongols will be brief--let Rome have at it with them. While Rome puts their best foot toward annihilating Temujin, we will carve up his empire... Springfield founded on Zulu island musket ordered.

790 AD (3)

Another palace expansion. Here's a cut of a Roman "SOD" that autorazed a Mongol city before I could get there. Caesar is toast. More knight upgrades. We now have 31 knights and 23 cav. Dial back lux to 20%--170 gpt.

800 AD (4)

SanFran cav -> cav. Buffalo settler -> rax. St. Louis cav -> cav. Detroit market -> library. Cleveland setter -> rax. Palo Alto founded on South continent -> temple. Rush musket in Pittsburgh to free up more mounted troops. Germans and Romans have chemistry.

810 AD (5)

NY cav -> cav. Boston cav -> cav. Memphis cav -> cav. Richmond cav -> market. Pittsburgh musket -> musket. Spokane founded north of oil springs--this is one of the jumping off points for the roman invasion. More war preps (27 knights--33 cav).

820 AD (6)

Phili galley -> harbor (needs it to grow faster and for better MM). Seattle cav -> cav. Houston cav -> cav. New Orleans cav -> cav. Baltimore galley -> musket. LA aqueduct -> bank. San Diego market -> library. Oakland founded sw of Orlando on Zulu island. Hurry temple in Cattaraugus to get furs online.

830 AD (7)

We learn Astronomy --Physics ordered @ 40% (six turns @ 86 gpt). Washington cav -> cav. Atlanta cav -> musket. Cattaraugus temple -> musket. Denver cav -> cav. Kansas City cav -> library. Romans complete Sun Tzu (Neopolis), soon it will be ours. Harbor rushed in Baltimore to upgrade galleys to caravels. Caughnawaga hooked up--15 knights upgraded. We have 8 knights and 59 cav. Troops moving into position for Roman attack.

840 AD (8)

Chicago cav -> library. Baltimore harbor -> musket. More troop movement. We take peace w/Mongols for their WM. We have no ability to take it to Temujin, so no need to stay at war for now. We should be in position to hammer him in 20 turns, after we bring the Romans to their knees. 4 galleys upgraded--we have 8 more to upgrade.

IT: Roman SODs heading to Mongol lands north of Germany.

850 AD (9)

NY cav -> cav. St. Louis cav -> cav. Dallas court -> library. Staging Point founded in between 2 roman cities--this is a third good starting point for Roman invasion. Spokane is right to nab a couple of the new cities between Iro lands and rome. Staging point is on the other side of the jungle. The third location is by the SODs between (formerly) Mongol lands and germany. This location allows for an immediate strike North towards Caesaria. The tough part will be timing the attack on the SODs OFF the mountains.

860 AD (10)

Boston cav -> cav. New Orleans cav -> cav. Memphis cav -> cav. Palace expansion. I have moved most of the workers, but have left most of the cavs and knights unmoved. I think we ought to wait 1-2 turns to attack rome to get those SODs off the mountains by Choybalsan. The image below shows my suggestions as to the major thrusts of the Roman campaign. We may want to get Bis in on an alliance to further complicate the extended roman troops in his territory.... We have 65 cavs and 8 knights.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG_warplans.jpg

And the save... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG-860AD.zip)

Stormrider and grimjack should have LOTS of fun :hammer: I suspect that by my next turn, we will be getting ready to whack Germany.

I am IMPRESSED with the sheer number of horseflesh we have been able to crank out, while at the same time remaining the tech leader. And Germany is Scientific.....

Good showing.
Grimjack

alright, stormrider is up

Shillen
BoG
Bam-Bam >>>JUST PLAYED
Stormrider >>> PLAYING
Grimjack >>> ON DECK

Got it. Just got back in town from a long-weekend and checked out the amazing progress of the Americans. I think we may have a shot at winning ;)

double post

Yes, it sure doesn't feel like Emperor. I had more trouble playing as the Celts in current gotm.

Grimjack

since it is close to winning time, i have a confession to make. i was shooting for the whole manifest destiny theme, and things got a little out of hand. (see korea starting spot) sorry if i made it too easy, but i thought it was good training for my first emporer game.

So--BoG, what EXACTLY did you do to the start of this game?

i deleted one civ staring spot (was about where our FP is) and made sure NY had wheat and washington had iron. i dont remember korea, but i guess i did something.

All -

My apologies, but I was unable to play last night for R/L issues (baby is sick :( ). I need to be skipped and with the pace of this game, I do not envision it getting back to me (one can always hope).

Stormrider

I'm not happy with the map modding. This is the very fist line in the very first post in this thread...
I am starting a new SG which we wil obviously be America. we will be playing on a completely random map as the americans on emporer.
Sorry, if you were going to mod the map to make it easier then you should have 1) told the players before they signed up and 2) gotten someone else to mod it so you wouldn't be playing with knowledge of the map and strategic resource locations. To tell the truth this game has been really boring me. It would have been a lot more fun if that civ had still been on our continent and if Korea had a starting point where it was capable of producing a settler.

Stormrider, hope it is nothing serious with your baby.
If I do not hear otherwise, I will take the play later tonight.

As to map modding, it is somemwhat surprising to be told this late. I will still play though.

Grimjack

Echo Shillen's points--knowing (now) that this is a "modded" map to lessen the difficulty leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

We have KNOWN we were going to win this one for a LONG time---it has just been a matter of "how fast". That DOES take a bunch of the fun out of it IMO.

That being said, there have been some enjoyable aspects to the game that I would not have otherwise found...examples--the sheer speed of our horseflesh buildup--with AND without the iron pillage--was something I have not generally done (most of my SP games have had the military speed buildup during and after MilTrad).

Speaking of the iron pillage--though it worked great here-- :hmm: seems *almost* wrong. I do not have a problem with it being used, since the result is not a whole lot different that what I was doing with holding off on Chivalry so we could build more horses...it just strikes me as "unnatural" in the context of the game--we "know" the tech, and have had iron as part of our strategic resource for centuries...food for thought--this is *NOT* intended as a criticism of the decision.

Back to the game--we should mop up with great haste--throwing caution to the wind--and then on to bigger challenges and other games.

EDIT: @Stormrider--hope the baby is ok...I can relate--my two-yr old is in ear infection/terrible twos hell right now... :cry:

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
Speaking of the iron pillage--though it worked great here-- :hmm: seems *almost* wrong. I do not have a problem with it being used, since the result is not a whole lot different that what I was doing with holding off on Chivalry so we could build more horses...it just strikes me as "unnatural" in the context of the game--we "know" the tech, and have had iron as part of our strategic resource for centuries...food for thought--this is *NOT* intended as a criticism of the decision.

I definitely agree with you. Firaxis really screwed up when it comes to the price of upgrading units. Upgrading units should cost 4 gold per shield, the same as rushing units, instead of the current 2 gold per shield. It makes no sense that building an older unit and upgrading it is cheaper than just building the newer unit. Like you said, it was in essence the same as delaying the discovery of Chivalry. If I had played the entire game myself I wouldn't have discovered Chivalry so soon. But even the decision to delay the discovery of Chivalry doesn't really make much sense and almost seems like an exploit.

I definitely don't enjoy using cheap tactics like pillaging our own resources, but Grimjack tried to set up the war for me and looking at the state of our military I knew we were in no position to start one. So I had to do something drastic in order to get us into position.

im sorry about modding too much. i meant to make it a little bit easier, not that much though. my apologies. it was my first SG and i really wanted a dominating win.

You got one.

Thanks for all of the concern - my little boy has one wicked head cold and has not been sleeping well (and as a result, neither is his old man)

I have done six turns thus far. Took me longer than I thought, so I will take the other four turns tomorrow afternoon. Here is a short 'teaser'

World war 1 is running. Losses are still reasonable for us, and we
can keep reinforcing, in spite of not devoting 100% of our production to military efforts. Germans have lost two cities, Romans more than that, and we none. Unknown how Temujin is faring. He is at war still though.

Grimjack

Here is file:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-950_AD.zip

Executive summary. Cav is good.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG9003.jpg

Here there be a longish summary:


860AD (1) Check out relations. No outstanding deals with Romans. We are free to attack.
We are still up Astronomy and Metallurgy on him. Germany is also felt out. He would not for any price
want to go to war against Romans though.
I see we are totally corrupt on new continent. I switch to settlers on those places that have completed their
temples. I rush a temple in Oilsprings.
Can go to an evil 19 shields in Washington. I work plains instead of a hill, looking if New york can put the
hill to better use. Still 16 shields and Cav in 5. New York already has 20 shields, but I work hill instead of mountain,
and see if Buffalo can work mountain when it is finished growing. After having checked these cities, I assume
all other cities also have been MMed , so I do not spend more time trying to improve something I am not able to.

I am a bit curious as to why we are researching. If we plan to ride across the world, wouldn't we have more use
out of an extra cav or two every turn ?
I assume it is Rails we want eventually.

IBT Size 12 cities with full food is bled of a worker, in order for cities not size 12 have faster growth.
Romans sure have a LOT of troops, and we do not have much of a defense. I will wait one more turn, hoping
they would keep less than 10 troops on the mountain.

870(2) Prepare closest city to Roman stacks with rushed walls. MOve a few units in place. Will start war next turn.

IBT Germans are also trying to build Bach's for us.

880AD(3) Hmm, Germans have Music Theory. Sistine's could be a nice wonder. Too bad we do not have a prebuild.
We are also no longer up Astronomy on Him. Rome has also acquired Astronomy. Fat lot of good that will do him now.
I see that Romans do have a ship inside our borders. I tell him to leave our premises, and he declares on us :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG9001.jpg

This should do wonders for any war weariness we could have felt. Time to see how much damage I can do before I
need to shave off his units from the sods. I do not think I can hurt him very much, since we are a LONG way from
his core.
After thinking a little about Romans 10 knights, 15 Longbows, 30 MIs and assorted pikes, I will see if Bismarck will
help us with the Romans troopers. I have seen lots of units enter German areas, so if I can pull him in, Germanys
cities is much closer than ours.
This is the deal I do:

[IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG9002.jpg]

Ereen defended by Pike and Musket falls without damage to our Cavs, we have teh edge in Culture, so I keep this as
it has dyes in its range.
Londinium is autorazed along with a Caravel. also our Cav is promoted against the warrior defender.
Aurelium defended by two spear falls, promoting two cavs to elite
Choybalsan, defended by two pikes falls after killing one cav and Promoting another.
after this, I go hide in the mountains, wanting to see what the Roman SoDs will do. I pillage a road, in order
for not so many MIs should be able to reach us. I hope Romans will go strike at the Germans, and I would liek them
to have enough troops to do the job properly, while we do the job on them.
Artaxa is only defended by spears, so I attack it in spite of attacks being across a river. Two spears fall, and
Artaxa is ours.
Adjust science slider for Physics in one. With the Negative War weariness, since they attacked US, I can get away
with a zero lux slider, getting us to +359gpt. I do need a tax collector in Richmond until its Market is ready.

IBT Cannot believe the rotten luck the RNG is giving me. I lose five cavs from the mountain stronghold on six counterattacks
one retreat. This is a str four unit attacking defense 3 unit in mountains. ON the other hand, most of Roman SoDs are
still in Germany, so that part worked. This turn I will have to lay mdown some reveneg. I learn Physics. Not wanting to
learn Magnetism, and negate our Lighthouse bonus, I instead research Economics, and start a prebuild for Smiths in
New York.

890AD(4) Hippo Regius two spears fall without a trace, and it is autorazed.
Gordions two spears also fail to impress our Cavalry force. It is likewise autorazed.
Seleucia is defended by two Muskets and one Longbow. They also fail to impress our Cavalry, who
is getting revenge from the RNG. This city is razed, in order to not bind a lot of troops as MPs. I will want
to make a lasting impression on the Romans, and hopefully get our troops in postition to strike at his core cities.
It will take a lot of troops, since I do not have cannons and no Muskets either. With enough Cavs, I may not need
any.
I manage to kill off some 10 assorted Mis and Knights on the Southern front, and our advance Cavalry reaches the
central plains. There are not many red blights in our jungle now.

IBT: More normal RNG luck this turn. I lose one exposed Cav, but Romans lose one Longbow and one Medieval Inf.
Romans land another spear/settler pair on our main island.

900AD(5) Hmm, pikeman of PIke/Settler pair retreats my cav. POsition my knight in strike position.
Nicomedia defended by two spears is captured and put to the torch.
I take a spear out of Ereet, and block a reinforcign PIkeman from using the road to get here.
We lose our first attacking Cav, as the pike defending Jerusalem is awake at its post. Doesn't prevent
Jerusalems fall on th enext knight though.
Tarentums Musket and Pike falls without any losses. It is torched as well. The Cavalry is really into this 'fire'
thing now.
Ack, a setback. Palmyra has a vet musket on top. It goes to yellow before rettreating our cav. Next unit is a pike,
and the pike kills two Cavs, while redlining. Underneath this one there is another veteran pike. I do not have enough
Cavalry to get this city, which is bad, since SunTzu will let him heal his defenders. This city is to be pillaged
down, and left alone until I have enough spare cav to take it down. I will for now go after easier pickings.
Rome is starting to fill his cities with Muskets now, and going will be rougher.
He seems to have only two Saltpeters, one of which is unconnected. The other one is deep down in Ivory land. WIll
see if it is possible to beeline here and prevent new Muskets from being built at least.
Neither Bismarck, nor Temujin has anything for offer up on trade.

IBT Hmm, seems like Germans got a leader since they completed Sistines this turn in Berlin. Romans cascade to Cops
and completes it in Pompeii. A Longbowman takes out one of our Cavs.

910AD(6) Brundisium has two veteran Muskets and a Catapult. It costs us three cavs to take that city. It is quite
possibly a productive city, since we are getting close to Roman Core now. I will need to get bigger stacks now.
Thus far I have managed with spreading out my forces in miniSoDs, using five or six on cities. I am deadly afraid of
flips to, thats why I do not capture cities. This has of course caused my troops to get hurt, since they never stop for
healing. I will devote some time to get together a decent force for next player to use to put some real hurt in the
romans.
The Romans are starting to put some hurt on the Germans now. Germany have lost one big city and one small bordertown.
Will see if I can poach some now that I no longer see any Roman large SoDs in that area.
Erdenet defended by spears falls. I do not know where Rome got all its workers, but we have captured at least 20 workers,
possibly 30 from them thus far. And it is not from Razings.
At Ceasaria, we defeat the regular Musket without problems, but lose a Cav versus the regular spear.


IBT A Roman knight gets shot to pieces promoting one of our Cavs in a forest. Germany foolishly settles new city
in cleared area. I will ignore his poaching for now, as I do not have anough settlers on hand to settle myself.
Gah, war weariness rears its ugly head. Sorry about that slipping by. Richmond loses a turn on its Marketplace.

920AD(7) Notice Romans must have some war-weariness too, and they are in Anarchy. This is probably not good for their
production capability ;)
As to our production, despite initial heavy losses we still field some 62 Cavalry.
Tabriz Romans only supplier of Dyes is not defended by Muskets :) I dispatch a task force.
Rome, is not defended by Muskets either. Romans must feel a severe shortage of funds. Another task force is on
its way here.
Hmm, quiet turn of movement. Building up for strike on Palmyra, but it takes a lot of time waiting on the few cannon
we have.
Not a single city razed this turn. OUr troops are starting to get edgy.

IBT A Longbow wanders up and retreats one of our cav. Germany poaches another city site. As long as Romans are in Anarchy
things may be this calm.

930(8) Having some 10 Cavs online Assault on Palmyra is started. One elite Musket, one elite pike and one veteran pike
later, Palmyra is smoking. Two cavs redlined, but no losses.
Tabriz is razed after killing two pikes.
Arretium pikemen makes a heroic defense, but ultimately falls to the flames after killing one of our Cavs.
Near Hispalis I place a Cavalry on what seems to be Romans only iron.
New Washington is founded as a filler.
New Konigsberg is defended by a pikeman from hell. IN spite of being redlined, he defeats two cavs before croaking.
New Konigsberg is also razed. Hope Germany isn't aware that it is their citizens that gets the shaft.
Romans still in Anarchy :)
Germany lacks Military Tradition and Physics, Mongols hopelessly behind, still lacking even Education.
Romans now willing to talk, but we still have 15 turns on alliance with Germans, so not even seriously considered.

IBT
Watch Germans and Romans kill each others troops. A Roman MI retreats one of our Cavalry on the mountain, and another dies.
Hah, def bonus works sometimes.

940(9) Hispalis defended by Musket/pike and Catapult is razed without losses.
Hovds two pikemen manage better, they defeat one of our Cavs
Eburacum on the island north of us is autorazed. Too bad, that was one city I had no intention of razing.
I increase science spending a notch for Economics in one.
I block the Roman Saltpeter near Ta-Tu. ooo, I slip with my fingers and found New Boston in a suboptimal spot. Sigh.
Feel free to move this city somehow.
Ta-Tus two pikemen makes as much resistance as the rest of the roman forces. This town however I keep, in order to get
Ivory for us more quickly. Settlers are left far behind. Front has move more than 3 squares every turn.
Starting Ta-Tu on Temple. Consider rushing Barracks instead, since healing stations are few and far behind.
Size9+ cities without markets get switched to markets and earn themselves Taxcollectors.
Cav move 9 steps on road, ferryline is moved to our southeasternmost tip.

IBT: See german and roman troops fight each other, and Germany recaptures New Leipzig:( I had hoped we would be able to
burn that city for the germans. Snice we do not have a ROP with Germans, we will probably have to withdraw our troops.
Mongosl demand we remove our troops !! What a nerve. Not even Germany has issued complaints against our Cavs.
Economics is done. I will leave Science on Navigation. NO beakers are invested, so feel free to change science.
I build up our right ving of the Palace

950(10) I remove our troops from German and Mongol cultural areas. NOthing else is done. I will leave Rome and ANtioch
razingas to next leader. I have not removed roads, since I can use roads to good effect after I have razed Roman cities.
WIth Rome in Anarchy during most of my turn counterattacks have been few and far between. Expect Longbows to show up soon
now though. ( I do not think they have iron, nor saltpeter..... )

Good luck
Grimjack

Ok I got it.

Preturn: All these elite knights need to be upgraded. We don’t need leaders that badly. Musketmen are totally not worth building. They cost a ton of shields. I switch them all to cavalry. What are we building JS Bach’s Cathedral for? We control 8 luxuries. I switch it to a bank without wasting shields. Likewise a courthouse in a city that’s 80% productive, I switch that to cavalry. We should just be building cavalry or barracks everywhere, we don’t need all this other stuff. Research changed to ToG. I guess we might as well research to steampower for the increased production and to build rails as we conquer. What are all these settlers on the Iroquois continent for?

950 AD (0): You left a lot of troop movements for me. I capture Rome with 1 casualty. They had a ton of pikes in there. We get a Great Leader on the last kill. We capture Rome and now control the Great Wall. I rush a couple cavalry.

960 AD (1): Neapolis captured along with Sun Tzu. Now we’re talking. Smith’s Trading company rushed in Ta-Tu. Rush a couple more cavalries.

IT: Germany and Rome sign peace treaty. Rome drops off a couple settlers by ship.

970 AD (2): Woot Smith’s Trading Company triggers our Golden Age! Rome must have traded for saltpeter at some point because they have quite a few musketmen. Cumae captured along with 2 catapults. Really bad RNG at Byzantium. 6 cavalries only manage to kill one musketman and take 1 hp off a pikeman. They all retreated though. Veii captured with 1 casualty. Get another Great Leader attacking Antium. We capture Antium along with a catapult with no casualties. Leader builds an army. We capture Viroconium with no casualties. I turn science down to 40%. We’re making 572gpt. We can rush 2 cavalries per turn almost now.

980 AD (3): Pisae captured with 1 casualty. Byzantium captured, no casualties. Agrippina autorazed, lost 2 cavalry to a regular musket.

990 AD (4): We learn ToG, research set to Magnetism at 40% (4 turns). Most of our non-marketplace cities riot, I guess there was some reverse war weariness from Rome declaring war on us that just wore off. Pompei captured along with Copernicus’ Observatory. Syracuse captured.

IT: Rome drops an archer off on our mainland. Oh no!

1000 AD (5): Lutetia captured with a few casualties. Lugdunum captured. Ravenna captured. Rome just has cities near German territory and one island city now. Argh as my caravel pulls up to their island city, Germany has a swordsman fortified on the only landing spot. It’s going to take forever to get our troops down to Germany. I tell Mongols to leave our territory for the 2nd time and they declare war on us. Dummies.

IT: Germans are building Magellan’s.

1010 AD (6): We capture Karakorum and the Oracle. Almarikh captured. Troop movements, rushing cavalry/caravels, etc.

1020 AD (7): Kazan captured. Mongols have one island city left. Declare war on Germany. New Frankfurt captured. New Munich captured. New Konigsberg autorazed. Lot more troop movements.

IT: Germany loses elite knight, veteran knight, and regular MDI attacking our cavalry stack on a hill.

1030 AD (8): We learn Magnetism. I’m unsure whether continuing research was a good idea but we’re only 1 tech from steam now. Need to up science to 70% to get it in 4. Darhan captured, Mongols destroyed. Blah all the caravels I rushed didn’t complete because it auto-switched them to galleons. Germany sure has a lot of elite knights.

IT: Regular German knight attacks our 2hp cavalry on hill and loses. Another stack of about 6 veteran German knights show up outside Hannover.

1040 AD (9): My cavalry keep losing to the damn German knights even though they’re on flat land. Lots of troop movement again. We still don’t have many troops in German lands. Have tons in ex-Mongol land and tons boarding galleons in our homeland. I tell the governor to manage moods in all cities because I’m lazy and there’s too many cities.

IT: Damn Germany attacks with like 10 more veteran knights. We lose about 4-5 cavalries. I wasn’t expecting this big of a counter-attack.

1050 AD (10): And the trend continues with cavalry losing to knights on flat ground more than half the time. More than half our cavalry force in Germany is dead now. At least the resistance in Hanover ended so we should get the 50% defense bonus now. New Hamburg autorazed.

Ok it’s just a matter of time until we win now. The cavalry flood is going strong and Germany won’t be able to hold us off no matter how many knights they build. Hopefully we can cripple them before they research military tradition.

We’re close to domination, but don’t raze German cities that you capture. Instead abandon ex-Iroquois or ex-Roman cities. That way you get to keep the cultural boundaries and you can hit Germany’s cities easier.

Make sure not to take Rome’s capital because we might end up having to make peace to get that island city, then break the peace treaty. I’d rather we didn’t do that but if it’s either that or wait until amphibious warfare we should definitely do it. I don’t get why Rome doesn’t kick that German swordsman off their island.

Just a warning, this set of turns took me many hours so be prepared to spend a long time. Just too many troops/workers to move.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-1050AD.SAV)

Are we going for domination or conquest?

I think BoG said he wanted conquest. I could have easily gotten domination on my turn. Grimjack razed a lot of cities that he captured too. I wouldn't mind if we decided to go for domination though just to get it over with. We know we won already and it would end the game quicker, and we'd also get a higher score due to faster finish/more territory.

i say, that we go for conquest, and se how quickly we can get it. i want to get steam power asap. also, prebuild for a possible iron works ;)

We get steam power in 2. You can't prebuild for iron works though. You don't know what city will be able to build it. Well I guess you would since you know the map. :p Really though even if we do get iron works it's not even worth building because we're so close to winning anyway.

it is in washington.

Bach was a prebuild for Smiths, I didn't get any leaders, so I didn't dare hope for a rushed Smith. Sorry for not making that clearer. I had no intention of building it, since we do not have cathedrals...

I debated with myself a long while before I continued research to Economics. Bassically, I thought it would pay for itself very quickly.

Muskets were produced because in those cities it was lesser waste. I am a shield miser :)
I also didn't think Romans would fold so quickly.

And SHillen, you are right. It takes a great many hours, because in spite of game being won, it is very hard not to move those workers for roading.

As to war mobilization, yes, I agree with you, I should probably have switched over to only produce military.

Last, a question. I am unsure of protocol of when to release a turn to next player. This time I left it up to next player to decide if we should capture or raze Rome. I didn't keep many cities, because I didn't want to bog down troops as MPs while the blitzing was good.
Should I have played my turn10 to almost finish instead ?

Grimjack

Ooo, one more,
Settlers were for if we wanted to go for Domination.

Grimjack

Usually I go with all units on the last turn unless there's a critical decision to be made. Then I'll leave whatever units that decision involves alone and let the next person decide. But I'll make a note of that at the bottom of my timeline to let them know. So it would have been fine to leave the cavalry outside Rome but all the workers and other troop movements should have been done.

I didn't use war mobilization. I've actually never used it. I know there's a bug with it and I've read that it's very easy to accidentally exploit it. So I just don't use it.

BoG it's your turn btw. Go ahead and build your iron works hehe.

Conquest it is. :hammer:

BoG lay down the smack on poor Bismark!

(and build the Ironworks :crazyeye: , if you so chose).

I promise it will not happen on my watch--nothing but carnage.

well guys, i have some BAD!!! news




Washington didnt build the iron works!!!










and now for the good news,


WE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beer: [party] :king: :goodjob: :beer: :bday: [party]

Preturn - im ready to roll!!!

IT- two german knights impale themselves on an elite cav

Turn 1 -destroy mainland rome. That aint right. German sword fortified by neopolis.

Turn 2 -take some german cities

Turn 3 -capture some more german cities

Turn 4 -capture even more german cities

Turn 5 -closing in. Captured half of german core. RR to unload point almost complete

Turn 6 -germany is down to 5 cities

IT - Germany attacks rome last city cuz I made rome sign a MA against germany. Sword dies and the gates to rome are open!

Turn 7 -germany is down to 4. Should be done by turn nine

Turn 8 - ROMANS ARE GONE. NEW BERLIN AND BONN ARE ALL THATS LEFT!!

Turn 9 -we capture last two cities and WIN!!!!!!

good job all, and i hope to see you in BoG02 (TBA)

and the pre victory save. an impressive 7255.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG01_victory.SAV