View Full Version : Possible new unit: Monk


Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 02:25 PM
I believe someone was asking for this, do you still want it? Cuz I have a feeling this one's gonna be a pain.

Possible attack preview

Sa~Craig
Apr 02, 2003, 02:48 PM
looks good. i think Kal el was asking for something like this as an inquisitor.

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:03 PM
did someone mention the Inquisitor?

I am looking for an Inquisitor animation, though something a bit more martial than this monk.

You might find it more fun to make too.

edit: removed pics to keep the thread on topic

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:10 PM
Well, I saw your inquisitor, and I thought about giving it a go. But, I also saw that grey fox was gonna do it.

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:15 PM
that's true. :) I just like to advertise as much as possible for the units I need. :)

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:16 PM
I think the cross should be the Monk's fortify and for an attack he can whack the enemy over the head with a big ol' Bible. :D

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 03:19 PM
I wanted a unit like this too.

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:24 PM
My Idea was more of a Religous attack, that is striking down the opponenet using the "hand of god" ie. pointing the cross at him. It would also work well with a priest fighting undead units. I thought about having him wack people with the cross, but, it seemed silly. I can't see a monk doing that.

But, I'm making this unit for you guys, so let me know what you want.

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:26 PM
I was going more for the Monty Python whacking idea, but I too considered the Spiritual attack with my Inquistor concept. Though eventually I decided I would rather save it just for the fortification, i.e. calling on God to protect him.

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 03:29 PM
Ideally, attack would be with the cross (conversion), and defense would be with a sword.

I don't know if you can do this though.

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by gael
Ideally, attack would be with the cross (conversion), and defense would be with a sword.

I don't know if you can do this though.

You want me to give him a sword??

and What do you mean "conversion"?

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:34 PM
well, during the inquisition they (the clerical types) weren't allowed to draw blood. I don't know if that was a general rule, but from my understanding even chaplains in the armies predered to use maces so as not to cut their opponents. I get this information from the History Channel so I can;t point to any particular book or website with more details.

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:35 PM
of course, if you give him a sword you might want to consider putting him on a horse as well. ;)

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
well, during the inquisition they (the clerical types) weren't allowed to draw blood. I don't know if that was a general rule, but from my understanding even chaplains in the armies predered to use maces so as not to cut their opponents.

You want me to give him a mace? and have him fight?

Let's find out if grey fox is gonna do the inquisitor before i try it.

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:41 PM
I could make a ninja monk who throws bibles at his opponent like throwing stars! :D ;)

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Kindred72


You want me to give him a sword??

and What do you mean "conversion"?

I meant both, as in he attacks (converts/subdues cities/armys with religion)
But when under threat, uses the sword to defend himself and the church (like the medievil monks during the viking raids)

It was just a thought, not a critism.
I love this unit, and the cross would work for both.
Its like i said, IDEALY, but not so its a pain in the arse to make.;) :)

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:43 PM
well, no. I was saying that if you are going to make the monk fight it should be with a mace.

If you do end up making the Inquisitor for whatever reason, then I would like him to have a sword and look as much like the concept sketches I put together. I was just joking around because if you did end up giving him a sword he would most certainly start looking like my Inquisitor.

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 03:45 PM
ok, let me work on something, and i'll post it, and see if you guys like it ok.:D

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 03:46 PM
fair enough. :D

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 03:47 PM
Sound!:)

Neomega
Apr 02, 2003, 04:56 PM
I would consider it more a druid..... I kinna see monks as bald buddhists.... just my 2 cents.

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 05:00 PM
But they wore hooded robes.
The hood gives them more mystique.

Kindred72
Apr 02, 2003, 06:25 PM
any suggestions on civ colors? I thought about the cross, the rope around his waist will be hard to see.

Kal-el
Apr 02, 2003, 06:35 PM
Probably both would be good.

gael
Apr 02, 2003, 06:54 PM
Cross would be the obvious one.

Fanatix
Apr 02, 2003, 07:09 PM
This is great! I can use it for my catholic Vs. protestant scenario! Can you make one with the hood down though?

tpasmall
Apr 02, 2003, 08:07 PM
Its amazing how quickly you've progressed with unit making, if i had half the skill you did i could probably make my own units instead of just converting them....or just doing starships which are really easy. Great work, you're up there with Kinboat and Utah with this one.

Sir John
Apr 03, 2003, 05:33 AM
It was me who asked for a middle age monk and this looks great!!! thx a lot for doing this unit.. :goodjob: :goodjob: :thumbsup:

BTW: dont give him any weapons, just let him use his cross..

Kinboat
Apr 03, 2003, 10:32 AM
Looks pretty good... I realize this is an early preview but he looks a little big and there seem to be some issues with the color of the cross...
I think he'd look best just making the sign of the cross (forhead, chest, shoulder, shoulder) as his attack. Showing his cross as the fortify.

Kindred72
Apr 03, 2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Kinboat
Looks pretty good... I realize this is an early preview but he looks a little big and there seem to be some issues with the color of the cross...
I think he'd look best just making the sign of the cross (forhead, chest, shoulder, shoulder) as his attack. Showing his cross as the fortify.

I've adjusted the height already, and i'm using the cross for civ color. Also, I'm going to stick with my ideas for an attack, I'm experimenting a little bit, i'll post a preview soon. Right now i'm at work. I have him doing the sign if the cross in an animation. I was going to use it as a victory or a fidget.

Sir John
Apr 03, 2003, 01:51 PM
I cant wait until its finished.. It was just what I wanted... :D :D

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 12:25 PM
Ok, here's a preview of my attack animations, I'm experimenting with the 3 attacks A,B, and C. What I thought I could do, is combine them so that they are smooth. I believe in the game the occur like this. A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B..... and so on. therefore, that should be able to allow me to have the monk use a sustained "cross out in front" attack. Now remember these are 3 attack animations combined in one. This should work.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 12:42 PM
maybe bigger motions. Right now its hard to tell that he's making the sign of the cross.

why use three animations if they are all him making the sign? Why not just make the one attack longer? Just curious.

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
maybe bigger motions. Right now its hard to tell that he's making the sign of the cross.

why use three animations if they are all him making the sign? Why not just make the one attack longer? Just curious.

Well, i don't think his motions should be that big. You can tell he's moving and alive, I'll stick with it the way it is. I can picture him in battle sticking the cross out in front and saying a prayer or something. No big motions needed for that. as far as why I did the 3 animations....... i dunno. I thought there might be a limit on how long an animation could be. most are MAX 20 frames. I needed one 48 frames. I didn't think I could do that in one animation.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 12:55 PM
I think you can have a lot more than 20 frames in an animation, but one of the animators would have to verify that.

pdescobar
Apr 04, 2003, 01:28 PM
As far as animation frames, FLiCster allows as much as 64. A unit I am currently making (my very first :D) has a 30-frame run and death and both work fine in my in-game testing.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 01:37 PM
pd,

are you making that cow you were talking about for the Noah's Ark Scenario.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/cow.JPG

pdescobar
Apr 04, 2003, 01:47 PM
:lol: :rotfl: :lol: No, my animation skills aren't nearly good enough for that; plus, I haven't found a poseable cow model ;)
This is actually just a guy in a suit carrying a briefcase which I figured was a nice simple start and was actually requested by sween, even though he didn't comment on my first version. Of course, I am simultaneously working on the raft I promised Clam I Am, but that's enough hijacking of Kindred's thread.

To get back on topic, I like how the monk is coming but think the 3 animations is adding unnecessary complexity. Is there going to be any other civ color on him aside from the cross? It might be hard to tell the civ from some angles if not.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 02:38 PM
It looks like the cord around his waist is also civ colored. While not perfectly accurate it might help the cause if the cord were a tad thicker so that the coloring would be more obvious. He is definitely a cool unit.

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 04:58 PM
i'm afraid, I can't make the cord thicker. The cross and cord will have to do, unless you want his whole robe civ colored. as far as the attack animation is concerned, it's done, and I will test it when the unit is finished. If it works, I see no reason to change it into one flic. Anyway, i'm not that great at modifying existing props and clothing in the models. All props and clothing come from things i've bought or downloaded. I'm very very happy to take suggestions, however i can't guarantee that I'll incorporate them all.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 05:12 PM
we'll take whatever you can give us. :)

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 07:36 PM
walk like a monk.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 07:41 PM
this guy is really great. I like him more each time I see him.

maybe he could take his hood off and scratch his bald head for the fidget. that might be more trouble than its worth. It would be pretty funny, though.

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 07:46 PM
Ok, I was gonna use this for a victory animation. or, i could use it as a fidget. what do you guys think?

mrtn
Apr 04, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
this guy is really great. I like him more each time I see him.

maybe he could take his hood off and scratch his bald head for the fidget. that might be more trouble than its worth. It would be pretty funny, though.
:)
Yeah, he's looking good.
Oh, Kal-El, you shouldn't feed your cows all that hemp, you know. :D

Kindred, About the new animation, I think it's too fast, but I don't know if that is because of the gif or the animation...

pdescobar
Apr 04, 2003, 08:23 PM
I like the walk and the new "sign of the cross" animation :goodjob: This latter looks more like a fidget than a victory to me. Maybe something with a kneel to the ground for victory? That might be too much trouble though :)

One note on this one, though. As far as I know, when Roman Catholics make the "sign of the cross", the hand is supposed to go to their left shoulder before it goes to their right (at least all the ones in my family believe that ;)). However, since that is done with the right hand and your monk has to do it with his left I suppose that may not apply. It looks good regardless :)

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 08:28 PM
Yeah, i realize that about the hand thing, but i started with the cross in his right hand, so I had to use his left hand. but, since he has to use his left hand its ok. What if a catholic has lost his right hand? ;) :D

as far as using it as a victory, i thought it would be funny to have him bless his "victoms".

I need more feedback on this one, what does everyone else think. victory, or just a fidget?

Kindred72
Apr 04, 2003, 08:29 PM
by the way, kneeling is tought on this one, cuz his robe doesn't allow for very much movement. I'm having LOTS of trouble with the death animation for this reason.

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 09:18 PM
I like it as a victory. just think of all the NBA players who make the sign of the cross after every single made basket.

@mrtn: Hemp? Cows?:crazyeye:

pdescobar
Apr 04, 2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
I like it as a victory. just think of all the NBA players who make the sign of the cross after every single made basket.

Its ubiquity (if that's a word ;)) is the very reason it should be a fidget. A given unit will only display his victory animation a couple times a game, but he may fidget a whole bunch. So, to my thinking, a fidget should be a simple, common gesture, and the victory should be something a bit more grand.

As for other ideas, I was thinking maybe something involving spreading his arms and looking toward the sky. Or perhaps doing the John Travolta "Staying Alive" move (see my avatar) accompanied by the Jaimo victory sound. Ok, not really, but that would be darned funny ;)

Kal-el
Apr 04, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by pdescobar
... Or perhaps doing the John Travolta "Staying Alive" move (see my avatar) accompanied by the Jaimo victory sound. Ok, not really, but that would be darned funny ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Beautiful! I would love that!!!

Sir John
Apr 05, 2003, 01:55 AM
very good animations:
Idea for death animation: Put 2 wings on his back and let him fly staright up from the picture, maby with his hand folded on the way up. That would be cool.

Balrog
Apr 05, 2003, 01:56 AM
Looking good. Too bad that we cant make 'healer' units.......

gael
Apr 05, 2003, 05:05 AM
I think it looks good as a victory animation. He looks like hes saying a quiet prayer for the dead, before he moves on to kick more ass.

Although pdescobars idea of having him look to the sky with arms spread, sounds good.


PS. Don't make him fly.