In my ever constant quest to diversify the Civ3 world I am making another request for a new flavor unit.

The Native American Archer:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/TW31.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/in86409a.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Indian.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/dmm_p17_200.jpg

Somebody please make this for the community.

I'd like to see this - it'd fit in well with my culture-specific units mod

please, we need more flavor units.

maybe utah can give his Native American a bow?

That would be great if he did. :D

Damn, this would look great for the Iroquois!

I hate to be the needy "please make this person" (no offense to anyone, it's just the shyness showing through) but I'm all for as many Native American units as possible - it seems like these have been relatively overlooked

Someone might make a really simple version by combining the scout's legs and the Mounted Warrior's upper body. Something like this: (I know this is really poor quality but I just figured out how to export flics from Flicster and I wanted to try something in my crappy publishing program ;))

Of course much better looking, I would hope.

Then again, his headdress makes him more of a plains indian archer, and it looks like you want a more Iroquois-type archer.

Assuming I can find decent props and such I think I'll try to make this guy.

well, since I have added the Sioux to my mod I would love to have both! But since I can only really hope for one, how bout a guy with two feathers in his head.

PD,

that would be great if you could make him.

I'll try. Since he'd probably only have pants and/or a loin cloth, I should be able to clothe him and a bow won't be hard to find. The tough part of the model will be headgear. I've downloaded a potential full headdress but I haven't looked at it yet. Maybe I could just slap a couple feathers against the back of his head for an Iroqouis version :D After that, I just have to figure out how to shoot arrows ;)

maybe Kinboat could help you out with the poses necessary for the archer animation.

if you do a search for "feather" at renderosity you can get a bunch of different feathers that you might be able to use.

here is one example:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/fyfeathers3.jpg

Regarding the animations, I was intending to look at the Robin Hood anims to start me off at least ;) As for the feathers, pretty much all the ones at renderosity are PSP or Photoshop images and not actual 3-d objects so I'm not sure how I could use them. I've seen one somewhere though if I could just remember where it was... :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/realfea.jpg
these ones are for use in poser, or at least so they are labeled.

with some work the top left feathers could be used.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I get there. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to make his pants and loin cloth play nicely together :)

:D

I might be able to make something like GEChallenger posted. I'll think about it, cause right now i'm redoing the B-52 Stratofortress.

I came up with some feathers and am close to a decent model, so unless something unforseen happens in trying to animate I'll be able to make this guy

great!

OK, here's my first try at the model in working size and game size. Comments and suggestions requested. Edit: Added version with full headdress as well

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherModel2.jpg http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherModel3.jpg

That looks good. I would suggest up-ing the x scale or something to thicken the bow. It looks like it might disappear. Good luck. It's looking good so far.

Thanks, utah. Yeah, the bow is a little thin. I don't have a real good feel yet for what details will get lost at the game-size of a unit. :)

Are you going to make 2 versions, one with the headress, one without. I think you should definitely do both, since that would allow people to have eastern and plains indians represented

That looks awsome man:goodjob:

I do agree that the bow should be a little bigger.

If people want both versions, I can do both. Right now he's actually wearing both the feathers and the headdress and I just hid the one I wasn't using for the renders ;) Would there be any other simple differences between the 2 types of Indians?

Looks great - I'm beginning to feel guilty for benefitting from everybody's hard work but never posting anything...

very cool indeed. can you possibly make the pants into chaps, i.e. they are really just leggings with out a crotch. that would be more accurate, but is not necessary.

Pdescobar, the first one (with only few feathers in the head) looks better and more 'real'. That full headress would be crippling in combat. ;)

Looking good ;)

Looks good. Agree about the bow, and think that the feathers should maybe be bigger too?

Originally posted by Kal-el
very cool indeed. can you possibly make the pants into chaps, i.e. they are really just leggings with out a crotch. that would be more accurate, but is not necessary.

If there's a transparency map template for the pants I could probably do it, but I think at game size that wouldn't really show any difference so I'm not planning to :)

Originally posted by aaglo
Pdescobar, the first one (with only few feathers in the head) looks better and more 'real'. That full headress would be crippling in combat.

Yeah, the feathers are probably more realistic, but the mounted warrior fares ok with a headdress ;) I (hopefully) have it set up so that once I create the animations, I can render with one of them and then after a few mouse clicks re-render with the other so that people can choose which they want to use.

Originally posted by mtrn
Looks good. Agree about the bow, and think that the feathers should maybe be bigger too?

I've upped the x and z of the bow to try and thicken it and will be watching to see if it's visible enough as I make it. I'll probably make the feathers bigger too. I did once, but that was before I previewed the small size. I have to keep reminding myself that how it looks in the big picture isn't important, it's how it looks at the little tiny game size that matters ;)

Originally posted by pdescobar

If there's a transparency map template for the pants I could probably do it, but I think at game size that wouldn't really show any difference so I'm not planning to :)


For reference take a look at the Civ3 Scout, I think its noticeable, but that may just be me. Also if you could put some sort of garter below the knees. These are of course just suggestions and I will love it either way!

This thread has a bunch of useful images I have found.
Unit Request: Native American Warriors (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32158)

Regarding the animations, please don't have him standing strait up in the default. I think it would look much cooler if he was always sort of crouched, stealthy, always the hunter ready to attack. What do you think?

I was going to attempt to have him run in a sort of crouch, so I'll look at doing that for default too, assuming I can get it to work :D

I'll look to see if there's a map template available for the pants and, if so, will try to turn the pants into chaps with garters. Should the garter be civ-colored or am I going overboard with the civ colors?

how would it look without the pants at all? ie. just the loin cloth

I would make his quiver a bit bigger too. I've discovered that big props work best.

keep the pants, the Iroquois lived in Upstate New York and the Sioux lived in the Dakotas. They could only go around without pants for 3-4 months out of the year. The rest of the time it was too cold. I grew up in Wisconsin and we get a lot of the same weather as those two regions.

Here's a new preview of a crouch position in S, SE and E directions. Also, this is what he looks like without pants and with the headdress. I'm having color issues on the headdress as it's rendering very dark. Assuming I can fix it, I could probably make all 3 versions so people can pick and choose to fit their needs if there's call for all 3. The bow and feathers have been thickened although you can only really see the bow in the East view because it blends in with his skin on the others. Comments?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherStyles.gif

p.s. turning the pants into chaps or adding garters is looking to be more trouble than it's worth, I'm afraid.

he needs to shift his weight forward a bit. the only way to maintain that position he is in right now is to brace his back against a support.

so I suggest straighten his knees a tad and shift his upper body forward to keep his weight over his feet.

looks good otehr than that. :)

Yeah, you're right. I'm not nearly skilled enough to make a believeable crouch from scratch so I tried a modified "lifting" stance; I guess the loss of the counterbalance of what he was holding sets him off kilter. I'll work on it :)

:)

Here's a preview of the default animation: crouched down (and hopefully balanced now ;)) and looking for trouble. Looks like the feathers may still be disappearing in some directions so I might have to crank them up some more. At least the bow is solid now.

Of course it's a Flc2Gif preview so the quality is downgraded somewhat, the West view is truncated, and the anim dislpays slower than it actually is. I should probably add more frames to get it this slow (but smoother) for real since Flicster's maxed out the frame delay and it's still a bit fast for me. However, I really don't want to because Poser hates this unit and keeps freezing on the renders, and more frames means more freezing... :( Maybe I can get creative with file copying since the second half of each animation is essentially just a reverse of the first half. Hmmm...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherDefault.gif

looks cool!

looks really good. I use a program called Ulead Photoimpact for my animated gifs. Don't know how much it costs though.

I think you are right about the feathers needing to be enlarged a little.

Looking forward to the next preview. :)

I'm rendering a new animation where I doubled the number of frames to slow the animation down and supersized the feathers so there should be a new preview tomorrow at the latest.

BTW, Anyone know offhand if the frame delay limitations are a product of the game, the FLC format, or FLiCster?

looking forwards to tomorrow! :) I guess I will just work on the DyP title Screen.

For those of you eager to use something in the meanwhile there are some very good 'elf' units out there that pass decently as native american units. I use the elf swordsman as my Iroquois swordsman flavor unit.

interesting you should mention that Heffalump, as I've been using
the Elf units for the Celts.

The unit looks incredible thus far :goodjob:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry :) I managed to screw up the default animation, not once, but twice. Firstly, my little renamer/copier script seemed to miss a file so I fudged it and as a result he pauses in one direction longer than in the other direction. Secondly, my feather resize apparently only took on the first frame, so the feathers grow and shrink as he turns :lol:

Anyhow, here's the preview. What do you think of the larger feathers seen at the start and end of each direction's animation? Do they make him look too much like a bunny? :) Also, should he fire from a modified crouch with one knee down or stand up to attack?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherDefault_Screwup.gif

Originally posted by pdescobar
I don't know whether to laugh or cry :) I managed to screw up the default animation, not once, but twice. Firstly, my little renamer/copier script seemed to miss a file so I fudged it and as a result he pauses in one direction longer than in the other direction. Secondly, my feather resize apparently only took on the first frame, so the feathers grow and shrink as he turns :lol:

Anyhow, here's the preview. What do you think of the larger feathers seen at the start and end of each direction's animation? Do they make him look too much like a bunny? :) Also, should he fire from a modified crouch with one knee down or stand up to attack?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherDefault_Screwup.gif

He has the "Shrinking Feathers Disease" :lol: They are changing size up and down, so it is hard to have an opinion.
About the attack: he shouldn't shoot sitting like that, in any case. I think it would be best if he rose and fired a shot.

yeah, much better if he rose to fire.

I got a good laugh out of the resizing feathers. :) Maybe something between the largest and smallest size.

The largest size there is 250%, the smallest size was I think 120%. I'm gonna try 200% and play with making him stand to fortify. I'll get back to rerendering default some other time ;)

Here's a very early fortify animation in S, SE, W

Things I most want comments on: Feather size (frozen at 200% this time), first half of the animation (the standing up part but not the turningpart), and final fortify pose (long pause inserted so you get a good look at it)

Things I least want comments on: Animation speed (the gif conversion seemed to inject him with caffeine), and the "moonwalk" manuever he makes while turning, particularly with his back foot. That's a known problem that I already intend to deal with by making him take 2 explicit steps.

Thanks! :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherFortifyMoonwalk.gif

Could you make the feathers "thicker"? As it is now they look very good in some of the views, but when you see them from the side, they almost disapears. Otherwise it's looking good.

Looks good...suggestions: wut would the feathers look like at about 20% smaller

Great job!!

it looks good.

OK, after quite a bit of struggling, he can shoot now. Here's a single-direction (E) preview of a fixed fortify (stepping instead of moonwalking) followed by a bit of a pause and then firing 3 arrows. The arrow might be moving a bit too slow but otherwise I'm pleased with it. Any comments or suggestions before I do the other directions for attack?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/pdescobar_temp_IndianArcherFortifyPlusAttack.gif

I'm sure I wrote an answer to this.:confused:
No suggestions or comments :D

Can he pull the bow string back further?

Originally posted by Kal-el
Can he pull the bow string back further?

Only if he gets a bigger arrow ;)

I tried making a horse archer unit ages ago but I gave up on it, the problem is that the bow needs to be straighter before he strings an arrow. At the moment the bow string is too tight and the bow itself does not flex.

I don't use poser so I don't know how possible this will be.

With the prop I am currently using, I don't think that's at all likely, but I'll look into it. It has a "pull-string" morph but that does not flex the bow nearly as much as your graphical example. I might be able to exaggerate the flex by scaling down the Y values when i pull it back. I'll look into that when I get back to him tonight :)

Any news ?

Wow, I remember looking at this thread a time ago, had completly forgotton about it - this will be fantastic, every civ should have flavor units for every unit available....

But this look absolutely great, hope it will be done...

how about you use the archer with no pants as a replacement for the "archer" unit, and the archer with pants as a replacement for the "longbowman" unit? The pants could be part of the technological advancement :D .

I haven't forgotten it; it will get done, but other things have taken priority recently.

Originally posted by aaminion00
The pants could be part of the technological advancement :D .
Good idea! We could add "pants", "mini skirt", "wonderbra" or "silk stockings" in the tech tree.
Actually, it had some impact on history.
Look at the French revolution, were revolutionner called themselves "sans culotte", because they were pants, when the nobles didn't.
Or the US army offering stockings to French women, chocolate to kids, when they free the country : it had a good impact on the morale of French, and helped a lot for the welcome of US troops.

Steph, that's actually an idea for a WW2 scenario, having stockings as a luxury! :D

Originally posted by mrtn
Steph, that's actually an idea for a WW2 scenario, having stockings as a luxury! :D

... Actually, it'd just be silk. Pre-nylon, women's stockings were made of silk, which all got diverted to parachute production --

-- Hmmm ... which means silk should be a required resource for pre-synthetic-fiber parachute units ...

-Oz

Originally posted by ozymandias


... Actually, it'd just be silk. Pre-nylon, women's stockings were made of silk, which all got diverted to parachute production --

-- Hmmm ... which means silk should be a required resource for pre-synthetic-fiber parachute units ...

-Oz

That's the case in Steph's mod:) . Silk is a ressource needed for paratrooper.

BTW, you are right, I should have said nylon stockings, not silk.

Originally posted by Steph


That's the case in Steph's mod:) . Silk is a ressource needed for paratrooper.


As some wise man once said -- "Great minds think alike -- and so do we!" :D

Looking Forward To Your Mod,

Oz

The unit was looking great mr. escobar,... dont mean to bug ya,
but is there any chance it'll get finnished relatively soon?

That all depends on your definition of relatively soon :lol: It's still on the horizon, and Kal-El makes sure to mention it every so often to keep it on my mind, but I can't give any kind of estimate.

That looks class pdescobar, I did'nt know you made units.