View Full Version : Proposal: New Province Idea


Chieftess
Apr 23, 2003, 10:15 AM
I took some time to calculate about how many cities an "average" world can hold. I placed cities in the editor in a psudeo-random fashion (to simulate our sometimes, utter neglect in city placement of a city or two...). I was able to find a pattern in the tiny and small maps, and used that as a basis for the other world sizes. I based my findings on a 4 billion year old world. You can see that each size goes up by 30 cities, except for large and huge. However, the sizes and cities are in direct proportion to each other, so I merely added the extra 10x10 tiles given to large and huge (an extra 15 cities each).

(assuming 4 billion years - Provinces are the maximum number for the ENTIRE world)
World Size Cities Landmass Provinces (assuming an avg. of 10 cities)
Tiny 40/60/80 (80%/70%/60%) 4-8
Small 70/90/110 (80%/70%/60%) 7-11
Standard 100/120/140 (80%/70%/60%) 10-14
Large 145/165/175 (80%/70%/60%) 15-18
Huge 190/210/230 (80%/70%/60%) 19-23

You can see that, with a "worst case scenario", those are the maximum number of provinces that we would have. (give or take an oddly placed island or two). In our last two demogames, we've been very lucky to have pangaeas (or pangaea like continents), so we had the liberty of making islands a province.

Anyway, to prevent oversized or undersized provinces (since right now, we have an average of 10 cities per province, I propose to change the number of cities in the province based on world size.

Such as this:

World Size Cities Landmass Old Provinces New Provinces
Tiny 40/60/80 (80%/70%/60%) 4-8 10 - 14 (4 - 6 per prov.)
Small 70/90/110 (80%/70%/60%) 7-11 10 - 14 (7 - 8 per prov.)
Standard 100/120/140 (80%/70%/60%) 10-14 10 - 14 (10 per prov.)
Large 145/165/175 (80%/70%/60%) 15-18 10 - 14 (13 - 15 per prov.)
Huge 190/210/230 (80%/70%/60%) 19-23 10 - 14 (17 - 19 per prov.)

Remember, this is if we have the max city number (meaning conquest and/or domination). In DG1, we had about 50 cities, and closer to 80 towards the end (about half the world's cities). That's 8-12 provinces out of the max 15-18 total.

With that in mind, we could adjust the above chart to reflect that. The large number of province only put a strain during the last few terms of the game (granted, it was summer, and people were on vacation...). Personally, I think 12-15 max provinces is a healthy number (6-8 for a normal non-domination game). Notice that there's a slight change.

World Size Cities New Provinces 2nd Way
Tiny 40/60/80 10 - 14 (4 - 6 per prov.) 12 - 15 (3 - 6 per prov.)
Small 70/90/110 10 - 14 (7 - 8 per prov.) 12 - 15 (6 - 8 per prov.)
Standard 100/120/140 10 - 14 (10 per prov.) 12 - 15 (9 - 10 per prov.)
Large 145/165/175 10 - 14 (13 - 15 per prov.) 12 - 15 (11 - 12 per prov.)
Huge 190/210/230 10 - 14 (17 - 19 per prov.) 12 - 15 (15 - 16 per prov.)

Shaitan
Apr 23, 2003, 10:20 AM
Looks fine to me. I'd go with the second method. Large world, target 12-15 cities per province. Of course the provinces would need to be defined for a landmass that would hold 12 to 15 cities, not an area that currently had that number of cities.

Chieftess
Apr 23, 2003, 10:23 AM
True, and that could be an island chain (like in an archipelago map). Infact, such provinces might have to 'expand' into other islands as more cities are placed. (as an example)

Peri
Apr 23, 2003, 10:26 AM
I think that it is a good idea to have smaller but more numerous provinces. In that way there will be more people involved in the government which cant be bad.
If it gets to the stage where we have too many to be governed effectively then we could vote to merge provinces for admin purposes.

Chieftess
Apr 23, 2003, 10:30 AM
Which is why I want a "flat rate" province amount. The first demogame hit 10+ provinces during the last two terms, and put a strain on elections. This one hit 10+ somewhere in midgame, and put a strain much earlier. The situation became critical during term 7, when we didn't have enough people, and more so in term 8. Now, had this game gone just one more term, just think of the strain! 5-8 ultra-corrupt provinces (50-80 cities) that no one has control over (a total of 20+ provinces).

Panzer
Apr 23, 2003, 10:30 AM
As well as being easier for people like myself to get into the government I assume that smaller provinces would require less time to manage, also allowing people who don't have much time to be the governor of a large province to play as well.

Peri
Apr 23, 2003, 11:18 AM
Im really surprised that there werent enough people to fill the posts. I would have thought that the jobs would be oversubscribed.
Well since I dont have a clue how this works in practice as I am waiting for III to start my opinion counts for little. However You have my vote.
Will this proposal be implemented?

Stuck_as_a_Mac
Apr 23, 2003, 01:53 PM
As I said when CT came up with this in the room, I like it.
It reduces the number of provinces and it makes sure that what would have happened in the end of this game wont happen in the start of the next.

Shaitan
Apr 23, 2003, 01:55 PM
@Peri - It's a factor at the end of the game. Once the demogame progresses past the point of tension (when it becomes obvious we will win the game) participation drops significantly. So when we have the most provinces we also have the fewest number of people to take the positions.

Chieftess
Apr 23, 2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Shaitan
@Peri - It's a factor at the end of the game. Once the demogame progresses past the point of tension (when it becomes obvious we will win the game) participation drops significantly. So when we have the most provinces we also have the fewest number of people to take the positions.

And conversely... when it looks like we're going to lose, participation also drops...

Shaitan
Apr 25, 2003, 04:00 AM
Moved to DG3 forums.