These are temporary until an actualy ruleset is in place.
Fundamental Rules

1. The stories and enjoyment of the players are the primary goals of the RPG. Rules exist as a framework to promote a cooperative and fun environment.

2. Thou shalt not resurrect characters, locations, plots, etc from previous RPGs.

3. Thou shalt not kill another player’s character without express permission from that player or the Game Manager. Same for any major alteration in another player’s character’s fortune, health or plotline.

4. Each player may have several characters. When posting make it very clear which character is involved.

5. Storylines often require one person to declare actions/dialog for another player’s characters. Be nice. Anything you declare that another player’s character is doing or saying should be in line for how that player has developed his character. When a storyline involves several characters give the other players a chance to contribute. Don’t jump the story beyond their chance to respond.

6. Thou shalt stay in the bounds of the demogame. Local technology is limited to what is possible in the demogame. If we are at war with a country in the demogame then we are at war in the RPG as well. We are not at war in the RPG unless we are at war in the demogame. Try to build in and build upon the demogame events in the RPG storylines.

7. Thou shalt stay in the bounds of reasonable suspension of disbelief. Your character may believe he is a vampire that can fly and mesmerize with his stare but he can’t actually physically do that. His actions must be explainable in a real world sense.

8. No take backs. Unless the Game Manager determines that an improper or illegal event has been put into a storyline everything that has been written happens.

9. New rules can be approved by either a majority of the current Managers (each player receives 1 vote regardless of how many Manager positions they hold) or a super majority of players in a 48 hour poll. Each manager holds veto power over their own ruleset for rules approved by the Manager method.

10. At the end of each month there will be a support poll for each manager to continue in that position. If any manager fails to receive a majority of support that position will be put through an election process.

11. The Game Manager has overall authority for activities in the RPG. He determines random events and can insert/remove elements to guide and enhance storylines. He determines when characters die from age or unpredicted (non-storyline) violence or accident. When he determines that an event will occur that directly affects a character he notifies that player so the player can work it into his storyline. If the player can’t do so the Game Manager will write the event story himself.

12. The Item Manager has overall authority for all items in the RPG. His responsibilities include tracking the exceptional items owned by each character and monitoring to prevent abuse or introduction of inappropriate goods.

Character Rules

1. When a character is created the player decides what caste it will be (see Nobility section for a list of castes). Each player may only create one character at a time that is of high gentry or better birth. A single player may have more than 1 upper caste character if their lower caste characters rise in position). Not all castes will be available at all times as government styles, technology, etc modify what is available. There is a maximum percentage of noble characters to non-noble characters so creation of a noble may be disallowed based on current numbers.

2. Each character has a life expectancy equal to that shown in the current save of the demogame. Each game turn is considered one year in the RPG for character age. A character will die of old age at the life expectancy plus/minus 10%.

3. Character statistics are the innate traits of the character. These are determined by a combination of assignment and random contribution.

4. Character abilities are the learned skills of the character. These are determined by the player.

5. The Character Manager has overall authority over all things character related. He can add/remove/modify as he feels appropriate in order to prevent unbalanced or game threatening characters.

Land Rules

1. Might makes right. The despot starts out with everything and everybody else grovels at his feet.

2. As territory grows it gets beyond the ability of one character to control. New nobles are raised to run these territories. They are sworn to allegiance but rebellions have been known to happen. The despot can actually give away land but this generally only happens as a reward to a long time loyal follower. More often the lesser nobles are running the despot’s land in service to him.

3. It’s possible for there to be more than one despot. If a revolt succeeds and is not put down by the despot that territory is then a separate entity. Note that newly acquired territory in the demogame still goes to the despot who holds the demogame capital.

4. In a monarchy new land goes to the most logical king. That is the royal character that has adjoining lands, nearby capital, etc.

5. In republic and democracy new land is offered for general sale to the populace.

6. In communism all land reverts to control of the government.

7. Land provides a number of gold, shields and food that it would generate if worked in a city. If no city controlled by the tile owner can access the tile it never makes more than what is shown when right clicking on the tile in the game. Gold can be converted to food or shields with one gold making 1/2 of either. If currency hasn’t been discovered yet all gold produced must be taken as shields or food.

8. Cities produce the number of gold, shields and food for the tile they reside on plus an additional gold for each population point.

9. A single contiguous land territory that has at least 5 * P (where “P” is the number of provinces in the demogame) will receive an additional gold per tile in the territory. If the territory has 10 * P receives 2 gold per tile in the territory and one that has 15 * P receives 3 gold per tile in the territory.

10. The Land Manager has overall authority over land issues and is responsible for keeping track of ownership, territories and the base g/f/s values of the tiles.

Unit Rules

1. Each character may raise a certain number of units per chat. This is based on their caste level and modified by their statistics and abilities.

2. Each character also has a maximum number of units that they can maintain command over. This is based on their territory controlled and modified by their statistics and abilities. (Note that with the proper statistics and abilities a character can raise and maintain troops regardless of their caste level.)

3. Each unit costs one shield and one food per chat to be maintained in fighting order. A unit without this support becomes a half strength unit. After 2 chats at half strength the unit will disperse.

4. Each unit costs a number of shields to raise that is equal to 1/10 of the number of shields to build it in the Civ3 game.

5. Mercenary units must be supported with gold and cost gold equivalent to their unit raising cost each chat. (Example: It costs 3 shields to raise a swordsman. It would cost 3g per chat to maintain a mercenary swordsman.)

6. Units are stationed in a territory and can be assumed to be located anywhere inside that territory. A unit can move into (through) one territory per chat for each of its Civ3 movement points. If movement is not contested and is along roads a unit can move into (through) 3 territories per chat for each of its Civ3 movement points. A unit must always stop movement when it enters a contested territory.

7. Units in a contested area will fight using their unit attack/defense values from the Civ3 game modified by character warfare skills, terrain, defenses, etc. Forces may be destroyed, rebuffed, routed, etc.

8. The Conflict Manager has overall authority over all units and is responsible for tracking the units for each character, their location, movement, upkeep, status and all conflicts resulting from actions in contested territories.

Economic Rules

1. The economy of the RPG grows with the technologies known in the demogame. There is no effective economy until the discovery of currency. At that point each character will begin earning a default amount of gold based on their caste level. This is a small amount assumed to be the result of their basic living activities.

2. Currency also brings about the advent of shops. These are personal or collective establishments and must be appropriate to the skills and abilities of the proprietor/owner. Each PLAYER will be able to start one shop during the course of the game.

3. Banking technology allows the addition of companies and banks. Companies are large organizations that are owned and run by shareholders. The focus of a company does not have to be based on the skills and abilities of the owners. Banks are lending institutions that may process loans and advances for private and commercial interests.

4. The Corporation technology allows stocks and corporations. Stocks are portions of a company that can be bought and sold as a commodity. Corporations are multi-company organizations that can act in their own right to purchase/sell stocks, companies, corporations, land, etc according to their charters.

5. The Economic Manager has overall authority over the economy and is responsible for approving shops, companies and corporations. He also tracks the amount of gold that each character, company and corporation has and bankrupts a those that cannot cover expenditures.

Nobility Rules

1. All characters begin play in a specific caste (Imperial, Royal, High Noble, Noble, Upper Gentry, Lower Gentry, Common). It is possible for a character to become a higher (or lower) caste through appointments and storyline effects.

2. During despotism all peers and titles are under the direction of the despot. The despot may grant and take titles on a whim. Granted titles are almost always bound to an appropriate territory.

3. During monarchy the noble houses become forces in their own right and sponsored characters may be given title despite the wishes of a king. The king no longer has the power to remove titles but a council of nobles may be able to do so.

4. During republic any character may achieve a noble title with the expenditure of sufficient resources.

5. In democracy new titles cannot be gained though hereditary ones may still be passed on.

6. In communism all titles except the gentry are lost.

7. The Nobility Manager has overall authority of noble titles and is responsible for tracking the noble houses as well as the individual titles of each character.

So, what do we do now?

Unnofficial ruleset (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51544)

Let's continue the discussion here. I think this should be added under Economy:

Resource Gathering - you are limited in the number of resources that you can gather in one turn. (or however this system will work). But, it will increase as the eras progress. For exmple:


Resource Ancient Middle Industrial Modern
spices 100grams 500grams 2000grams 5000grams
Animal hides 10 cloths 250cloths 20,000cloths 25,000cloths


Also, if the needed resource isn't availible, the amount collected would be less than the base value.

What are we planning on doing with a players possesions after a character dies? Inheritance laws?

Perhaps. Thus will create family heirlooms, and heritage. Someone could make a bronze necklace, and pass it down as a family treasure. If that family becomes rich, then it's more fuel for the storylines.

Unless the character has an heir or a will his things will go away when he dies. Distributed to the appropriate persons amongst the teeming citizenry of the country.

Character rules 1 & 2 edited per discussion in the original DG3 RPG discussion thread.

9 & 10 inserted in main rules section.

Would there be an exception to the Time rules for a Central Character and a Secondary Character (The most used NPC). I am curious since I dont want to see my character nor my Secondary character to be effected by time and die off before the end of the demogame. I will have my other NPCs Die off from the Effects of time.

No exceptions. You can pass down family traits, etc, but each character should be uniquely different from the others.

Originally posted by Shaitan
No exceptions. You can pass down family traits, etc, but each character should be uniquely different from the others.

I can pass down traits like Character Stats, Jobs the person held, Items the person has, and Skills?

Maybe some character stats. Genentics doesn't always choose an exact match. But, I'm guessing that at one point, you could have a slew of characters? (i.e., several hundred characters). They could break off into their own kingdoms. :)

A question: do abilities like the Force (assuming Zarn wants to) get passed down generation to generation?

Originally posted by Chieftess
Maybe some character stats. Genentics doesn't always choose an exact match.

I just got an Idea, Would it be possible for the Child Character to pick up some of the Character stats from both parrents or something like it (Starts to feel he is playing The Sims now)

Originally posted by CivGeneral
I can pass down traits like Character Stats, Jobs the person held, Items the person has, and Skills?
As CT said the stats might be related to those of the parents but they wouldn't be a direct transfer. Hereditary jobs are certainly possible - generally speaking a shop proprietor was succeeded by his children, nobles certainly were. That will depend on the character. Skills would not pass down as those are learned things. A child character can start out at age zero and be trained in the same skills as the parent though so this would actually be sort of possible. If the character has heirs then items would pass down to them. After Code of Laws a will could ensure that items go where the character wants them to.

Originally posted by SAAM
A question: do abilities like the Force (assuming Zarn wants to) get passed down generation to generation?
That would likely be up to the Character Manager.

Originally posted by Shaitan
After Code of Laws a will could ensure that items go where the character wants them to.

How can I make the Will ensure that the items will be passed on to the next Generation and the Next Generation and soforth. So that I dont have to write one up everytine my Two Major Characters gets bumped off (Stuff will be added on to the will later on)

You can write up a generic will and just fill in the names when needed.

Originally posted by Shaitan
You can write up a generic will and just fill in the names when needed.

Sounds good :). And I have an option to have a Third Party Persion (Non-NPC) or have one of my Minor NPC read it. I would like to know since I have not done the "Presenting of the Will" before, I know how to write one though :).

Maybe before Code of Laws, we could have Birthrights. Maybe birthrights could extend until Nationalism, or continue under Monarchy.

I stopped reading after the part about not being able to kill a person's character without express prior written permission. I thought our RPG would involve battles and duels and power struggles and stuff like that there (at least during despotism). A lawless land (at least until we learn code of laws) where violence rules. Whatever happended to the Despot, that fella we all love to hate?

I too feel we should be allowed to murder people. It was a big set back when I went crazy and tried to kill Sir John that I needed his permission.
All we are say-in...
Is give senseless brutality and violence leading to murder and injuries a chance.

There are problems there - for instance, the poor user who's just trying to comprehend all of the rules on day one, and then on day two they get killed off and can't participate in the RPG.

Originally posted by CivGeneral


I just got an Idea, Would it be possible for the Child Character to pick up some of the Character stats from both parrents or something like it (Starts to feel he is playing The Sims now)


If we are going to make an RPg we should at least stick to the laws of physics and biology. I stress my concern that if CG's plan is implemented Lamarckism will ensue, creating an un-realistic genetic makeup of the RPG world. Therefore I think that only things Genetic should count(innate), and nothing developed over life through work (acquired) should be allowed. Or else we've left our world and moved to one that has never existed on earth, nor will it.

Another idea for charater-rules:
If a user creates a character, he can decide for 1 "family trait ability". (Like Horsemanship etc.).
The statistics are randomly generated, but the random generator should be tuned so that the "familiy trait" abilities get a higher propabity... the character will have random stats, but will be better in his family trait than in the others....

And the next would be: If the above character has children, they inherit the traits of fater OR mother (randomly chosen which one if different). For the children, the user can not choose the trait...

Example:
I generate Sir Alpha, which has a family trait in horsemenship.
Sir Alpha marries Lady Beta later, which has trait on sewing.
When they now get a child, the random generator, and not me, will choose wether it will have horsemenship or sewing as trait... and that of course will be done AFTER i chose the name and sex and ... of the child...
this way we will get some nice sons with a sewing ability when their parents want them to become horsemen's ;-)

and now some ideas to the dictator himself:
THE FIRST DICTATOR
...will be an independant npc with random statistics. this dictator wont hold for long...
this NPC will be controlled by the demogame president or if the president does not like to do that by anyone he gives controll of the NPC to.
* the NPC dictator must not have children
* the NPC dictator must not start family relations with others
* the NPC dictator has half the live expectancy than normal citizens
* the follow up dictatorship to the NPC dictator must not be passed to the person controlling the NPC dictator or any of his characters.

CHALLENGING THE DICTATOR...
during the first week of our nation
at the birthtime of our nation, the dictator will propably not be so well protected. and we wont have good weaponry. so the rule to challenge the dictator is pretty clear:
during the first week of the nation, any citizen can challenge the dictator by creating a character and posting the challenge.
the challenge will be done in a brawl, a manual fight with no weapons, until one of the contestants dies. the fight will be done according to the tournament rules, the winner will be dictator and the looser dies.
normal procedure
after the first week, the dictator will be better protected as our nation settles. the challenge will now be harder.
there will be 2 possibilities:
1) open personal challenge
the aspirant will challenge the dictator officially. if the dictator allows this challenge, he chooses the kind of competition according to the tournament rules on which they want to fight, and the winner will be dictator.
note that the dictator can do anything he likes to the looser! even killing him! also if the dictator does not want ot compete, he can deny the challenge... which will be pretty risky for the challenger...
2) revolution
if some citizens for a revolution with own military, they can attack the official troops of the dictator. the dictator is downed as soon as:
a) all his troops are gone
b) he hold no more cities
c) any storyline which he complies to
3) realism + storyline
if someone finds another realistic way(!) to do it, it is possible.

The brawl and death thing would go against killing a player without permission (after the 2nd despot)...

Killing another player's character has to be regulated in some manner as that other player has absolutely no chance to do anything when you are writing the storyline. It would be manifestly unfair to allow a "whoever writes it first kills whoever they want" type of situation. The Character Manager or Game Manager would also be able to give approval to kill another player's character and that gives the opportunity for some unexpected plot twists. For example, player one has character Alpha, who wants to kill player two's character Beta. Player one PMs the Game Manager, describes the situation and asks permission to erradicate character Beta. The Game Manager looks into the storyline and sees it's far more likely that character Beta would win this conflict so PMs player two and tells him that character Alpha is trying to kill his character but Beta finds out and can either simply foil Beta's plan or has the option to kill or capture him.

@disorganizer - There won't be any special rules for the first despot and the person running him (Game Manager) can do whatever is appropriate for the first leader of a burdgeoning tribe. Who knows? Maybe he'll be a nice guy with only the best interests of the populace in his heart.

THAT is a great idea shaitan!

Originally posted by disorganizer
Another idea for charater-rules:
If a user creates a character, he can decide for 1 "family trait ability". (Like Horsemanship etc.).
The statistics are randomly generated, but the random generator should be tuned so that the "familiy trait" abilities get a higher propabity... the character will have random stats, but will be better in his family trait than in the others....

And the next would be: If the above character has children, they inherit the traits of fater OR mother (randomly chosen which one if different). For the children, the user can not choose the trait...

Example:
I generate Sir Alpha, which has a family trait in horsemenship.
Sir Alpha marries Lady Beta later, which has trait on sewing.
When they now get a child, the random generator, and not me, will choose wether it will have horsemenship or sewing as trait... and that of course will be done AFTER i chose the name and sex and ... of the child...
this way we will get some nice sons with a sewing ability when their parents want them to become horsemen's ;-)



I repeat again, we must try to avoid Lamarckism like that and stick to normal genetics. If I learn sowing it does not effect my childrens abilities. So I ask all of you again, please stick to normal genetics.

I think disorganizer is trying to get to things like manual dexterity (sewing) and balance (horseriding). Not the skills that are based on those traits.

so character development will resemble fallout? we getstarting values for strength, intelligence, agility, luck, etc. And then we have specialized abilities we develop which can be taught o the next generations (melee weapon use, projectile use, barter, lockpick stc.) "?

Thats what my vision for demogame characters are.

Yup, that's it in a nutshell.

will the starting values (strength, agility etc.) be able to be improved? I think it would really make the characters unique if they were static numbers cast in stone once they are decided upon. At least until some of the medical tech advances are discovered (hospitals could improve strength and endurance, but it is a fair amount to do so).

Additionally, will the skills simply be "Melee weapon skill" or will it be "melee weapon skill 35%" which you can train (at various places, for money or items) which you can improve? Then when you train the next generation, they start with half the value of your skill level if they have been trained, and it can develop by reading a book (a good idea would be to open a library when writing is invented, and you can improve your stats by visiting for a small charge and reading a book), or by practicing.

Statistics (physical abilities) would be static. Skills (learned) would be malleable. In DG2 there was the Academy of Noble and Martial Skills where militaristic skills were taught. Actually all we really had in DG2 were skills of a militaristic bent. I hope we'll be able to encourage an expansion beyond that in this game.

traits like barter would be good when dealing with NPC's, repair could fix things easier. Of course this means that everyhting has to have a value when dealing with it and relate it to the skill level and traits of said character. Quite the mind-boggler :crazyeye:

We could do a Civ3 attribute style (and then some). More like classes of skills.

Merchantile (Commercial)
Militaristic
Adventurous (Expansionist)
Religous
Engineering (Scientific - but also creating things, not nessecarily machines and tools. This one could have several sub-traits)
Industrious
Maritime (seafaring)
Agricultural

something like that maybe...


If someone had agricultural and engineering traits, it's possible that they could be an inventor for agricultural farming. Or, they could specialize in one trait.

commercial traits, agri, seafaring and industrial traits would be difficult to differentiate, they are so similar, often overlapping from one to the other.

to the rule about only killing a player when he approoves: who decided that yet? i thought it was just a proposal :-P

to the traits: ct, that was exactly what i meant... just a bit more basic than those many traits...

examples:

agricultural trait:
someone with that trait automatically improoves the income of his land in food by 50%. if such a person runs a food producing shop, we could also lower his "taxrate" as his production will be more efficient.

mercatile:
someone of this trait will improove all his gold-tile incomes by 50%. also he will have a lowered "taxrate" for all businesses where he does not produce things.

industrious:
shield income up by 50%, tax reduction on producing businesses.

engineering:
can set 1 point more than normal in all engeneering stats. will have reduced taxrate on all construction businesses.

militaristic:
can set 1 point more than normal in all militaristic character stats each term. will have reduced taxes for miliary businesses.


scientific:
can set 1 more point than normal in ALL character stats which are not engineering and militaristic. will have reduced tax for scientific and "teaching" businesses

something along those lines...

@shaitan: so wont the first rpg manager get too much power? and how can the dictator be challenged? the first NPC doesnt have any need for other people... he can do a lonely job giving nobody the chance to revolt.

throw in some negative parts though, the scientific trait sounds alrady like one everyone would want. Except for me, because my character is just a simple man living a simple life. Scientific could reduce points fro militaristic or something.

The Game Manager won't have too much power as he's simply running an NPC to facilitate the game. He is not trying to "win". Hopefully nobody will fall into that trap where they think they have to one-up and best the other players. We're trying to foment a cooperative storytelling environment.

so the first game manager is the despot then?

Very odd there shaitan, in the demogame main forum, the last post was by you at 4:01, then in the RPG sub forum it says your post was at 4:00, in the thread itself (here) it says 3:59!

The first Game Manager will be running the NPC for the first despot. Remember that the Game Manager's primary responsibility is to facilitate gameplay and storytelling.

Regarding the wierd timestamps it's not odd at all. I simply refuse to be limited by linear time. ;)

Originally posted by Shaitan
The first Game Manager will be running the NPC for the first despot. Remember that the Game Manager's primary responsibility is to facilitate gameplay and storytelling.

I refuse to be limited by linear time. ;)

:hmm:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CT_poke.gif:eek:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CT_scared2.gif

BTW, I've got the perfect smiley for the despot!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CT_despot.gif

Is it just me, or does that guy in the middle look like Thunderfall? :lol:

Originally posted by Chieftess
There are problems there - for instance, the poor user who's just trying to comprehend all of the rules on day one, and then on day two they get killed off and can't participate in the RPG.

Getting killed does not mean a player cannot participate in the rpg - it simply means he or she must start a new character. As for rules, don't make up alot of 'em and they won't be difficult to understand.

I agree that one player cannot simply make a post saying *I killed So-and-So*. If someone wantes to try to kill someone else then they have to pm the appropriate rpg manager who (somehow) decides if the attempt succeeds. If there is a battle and the appropriate rpg manager determines that character A captured character B in the battle then A should have the option of doing as he (or she) pleases with B, including execution. I'd like to remind everyone that the idea we were trying to use was to let the rpg develope as the demogame civ acquires techs. In the beginning there will be no currency, code of laws, etc. We will be living in a lawless practically barbarian state. Violence and killing will be the norm in the beginning as characters struggle for power.

Also, as in RL, most murders won't be committed unless there is a motive. While there may be some senseless killing for the sake of killing, most murders will be committed to gain something. Players who want to extend their character's lives by staying out of the power struggles can certainly do so by living *normal* lives rather than trying to be a power wielding noble who must watch his or her back all the time. I'd also like to remind everyone that the time will come when we do have a code of laws and the days of simply walking up to another character and running him through with a pointy stick (or whatever weapon is currently in vogue) without legal consequences will not last forever. Also, even before a code of laws is developed murderers will have to contend with the surviving friends of his or her victims.

i second donsig there. killig should definitely allowed. later on as we will discover the techs of lawmaking, those people will be punished.
another thing you have to keep in mind is: every time you try to kill someone, he also has the chance to kill you.
of course one of the managers must approove the action. as he will have to define which method applies and has to calculate the result. if the attacker looses, the attacked person may decide what to do with him, to kill (successful as he already defeated the attacker) or to give mercy (propably arresting the attacker or somehow torturing him).

@immortal: good idea. so i would propose each trait also gives a stat-loss for non-trait stats :-)

Well, as the first official manager, I like the idea of killing. And if it were up to me, Id pass it right here, seeing as there are no other managers to stop me :)

you just wait... :evil:

Hey! Sir John! Where the heck are ya! I have a job for you. Come here! Just ignore the picax.

stop spamming :-) i see stuck already starts into dictatorship play here (or at least tries to)

btw: we will urgently need a new ruleset up, or we will end in chaos again... we already have some threads up which should not be there because we didnt even start the game yet...

an actuall question:
when can we purchase houses or other types of homes? people want to settle down and stop acting like nomads.

I have another idea for characters. Genetic Diseases. Like in real life, it's possible to inherit some sort of disease. Each character will have a disease 'varible' so to speak - [ carrier, inactive, active ]. A carrier means that the character has that disease, but it won't affect them. Inactive means the character has it, but doesn't feel the effects. An event could trigger the disease (i.e., the character reaches a certain age). To keep things simple, I'll have just one type of disease. This could simulate the 'inbreeding' done by royalty lines (as the royal family usually marries within their family). If only one parent has it, there's a 50/50 chance. If both have it, there's a 100% chance that the child is a carrier (and a 50/50 for inactive).

If the characters are related to each other (say, cousins in a royal line who are a prince and princess), there's a higher chance of disease forming in the next generation, thus starting another line.

Come to think of it, there could be maybe 3 classes of genetic diseases:

common / crippling / fatal.

common has no effect on life span, and would be an annoyance. I don't mean something like the common cold. Things like a minor deformaty, disease in old age, etc.

crippling may have an effect on life span. These range from say, blindness to organ conditions, to crippling deformaties.

fatal would effect the life span, such as diseases of various organs (lungs, heart, liver, brain). The discovery of medicine has a chance of inserting fatal diseases, which is lessened by the Cure for Cancer and Longevity wonders.

This would go along side with the normal diseases. communicable and non-communicable. Diseases would have to be major, like Malaria. Current techs could even bring the onset of more diseases, like trade.

(I feel like I'm reinventing the left out feature in Civ3)

brilliant, though hard to track.

i would suppose only the character manager knows who has which disease... and the chances...
as soon as we discover medicine, they can be revealed by going to a hospital and pay for research on the disease.
with genetics, they can be cured.

i would suppose we can dig holes and build small huts until construction. only exception would be the "palace".

I could set up a MySQL database. :)

We could use the techs for this:

Medicine - "Cures" all common genetic diseases, and cuts the base chance of a normal disease occuring by 25%.

Sanitation - Cuts the base chance of a normal disease by an additional 50%

Genetics - Cuts the base chance of a normal disease by 20% (leaves 5% for "superbugs"). Also cures crippling deseases, and cuts all genetic diseases by 75%. Chance for a total removal is:

base: 50%
with Cure For Cancer: 20%
with Longevity: 20%

For genetic diseases, there can be a non-announced event when a disease is spawned. Or, it could be set turns. It will be some small percentage, like say, 5% of the total poplace will randomly get a disease.

hmm, time to write up a C++ program and experiment! :D

I think sanitation would be the largest reducer of diseases and illness, lookingat it from a historical perspective, it was certainly a huge improvement from the window bombs of decades before.

Proposed - More Character Rules: Generations

Each character must be atleast 10 years of age to rear children. (max pop is 20 in the game without granaries)

A character can not rear children after the age of 50.

Each character can only have 1 set of children per game turn. (1 set being 1-5 children)

Each character can only have a maximum of 10 children in one lifetime.

It is possible to adopt a child into the family. But, the child will be marked as "no heritage" (for possible gameplay use)

For each child born, that (female) character has a natural 50%chance of dying due to to childbirth. This rate drops to 1% after Medicine.

A character must be Married to another character to have children (just to avoid some umm... obscenities which aren't allowed on these forums)

The Firstborn child gets a "birthright", which lasts forever in a Monarchy, but only until Nationalism in all other governoments.

@Immortal - I have a chart, where sanitation has just those effects. (and medicine too).

must be 10 years old to rear children
should rear be bare by any chance? ive never heard rear applied like that before :)

except maybe...ah nevermind, Id rather not be banned.

@CT- For first characters, do we just automatically assume that there is a female along with the male? For.. obvious reasons.
Also- do they have to be declared married?

additionally: are 50 years in game 50 years rpg? if so I think Ill wait until the year 0 to create my dude.

Originally posted by Immortal

should rear be bare by any chance? ive never heard rear applied like that before :)

rear = child rearing.

But, I'll change the wording. :)

---------------------------------------

Also, more rules:

A player may only create 5 characters at one time. I'm not sure if there should be an absolute max, since the character's descendants will be other characters (and NPCs).

A player may pick from any of their characters' descendants for a storyline. The characters can also be grouped into communities or however the player sees fit.

It is possible that a character can't bare any children. (this would fall under the medical conditions).

Any new character that is created starts out at age 10, giving time in the early game for roleplay.

@Stuck - you can pick male or female, but it would be ideal to have a mixure to ensure the geneology lines continue.

Just as an insurence, here's another rule proposal:

Incase of low, or near extinct population, the Character Manager and/or Game Manager may give "free" characters to each player.

For those who want to know, this is what the chat (and other little data looks like)

Disease Types
Natural
Non-Communicable
Common (allergies, rashes, malnutrition)
Crippling (Illnesses in general, bio-chemicals)
Fatal (organ failure, bio-chemicals)
Communicable
Common (The common Cold)
Crippling (
Fatal
Genetic
Common
Crippling
Fatal

Events for Diseases & Cures

Trade Each active trade with a civ adds a cumulative 10% chance of a disease occuring
Jungle 50% chance of a communicable disease if a city loses population points.
Floodplains 10% chance of a communicable disease if a city loses population points.
Nukes 75% chance of a fatal disease (nullified by Cure For Cancer)
Meltdown 25% chance of a fatal disease (nullified by Cure For Cancer)

Pottery Food storage encourages increased pests. Base Disease chance doubles
Writing Allows documentation of diseases only
Chemistry Allows for basic cures. Reduces disease chance by 5%
Allows for creation of common "natural" diseases


Medicine Nullifies the disease effect of Industrialization.
Sanitation Cures 50% of communicable diseases, and 25% of all non-fatal genetic diseases.
Allows for the creation of crippling "common" (controlled) diseases

Scientific Method Enables research of 1 disease (natural or genetic). 20% chance of a cure.

Industrialization Increases chance of a crippling disease by 75%
Ecology Lowers the chance of a crippling disease by 50%
Recycling Lowers the chance of a crippling disease by 20%

Cure For Cancer Nullifies any natural fatal disease
Longevity Cures all common and crippling genetic disease, and reduces fatal genetic diseases to 10%


~ 300 turns

50 years (1 turn = 1 year) = 6 character levels
50 years (1 turn = 5 years) = 30 character levels
50 years (1 turn = 10 years) = 60 character levels

Descendants (every 20 years) = 15 generations

20 players, 10 characters = 200 characters.


This is also from Disorganizer:

i think the land should be free to build or use for anybody being able to defend it by force or arange with others. this way we will have power struggles for the land controll. ownership can be recorded after mapmaking

Woah, woah, woah. Slow down on the rules there, CT. There's no need to specify marriage. That was not even a common practice until about 1000 BC. The player should specify their character's age. If I want a character of a hermit on the mountain for a storyline I can't very well start with a10 year old.

@Immortal - One game turn will equal one RPG year.

EDIT: Also, very important. No ceiling on the number of characters created. We don't want rules that will restrict the stories. We need only a framework to support and guide.

This is perhaps the one rule I'm confused on:

9. A single contiguous land territory that has at least 5 * P (where “P” is the number of provinces in the demogame) will receive an additional gold per tile in the territory. If the territory has 10 * P receives 2 gold per tile in the territory and one that has 15 * P receives 3 gold per tile in the territory.

5 * P what? Tiles?

For example:

Say there's 2 province, that's 10 tiles. Does that mean the territory has to be 10 tiles?

Originally posted by Chieftess
This is perhaps the one rule I'm confused on:

5 * P what? Tiles?

For example:

Say there's 2 province, that's 10 tiles. Does that mean the territory has to be 10 tiles?

Yup. That's it exactly.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Woah, woah, woah. Slow down on the rules there, CT. There's no need to specify marriage. That was not even a common practice until about 1000 BC. The player should specify their character's age. If I want a character of a hermit on the mountain for a storyline I can't very well start with a10 year old.

@Immortal - One game turn will equal one RPG year.

EDIT: Also, very important. No ceiling on the number of characters created. We don't want rules that will restrict the stories. We need only a framework to support and guide.

hehe, I just didn't want things to get out of hand in the forums. ;)

But, the age was arbitrary, especially since the life expectancy at the start of the game (and maybe for atleast 30 turns) is 20 years. So, it would be hard for characters to start off at age 20 and have any descendants. What I had in mind for the RPG was more heritages, where characters could have descendants, create little villages. Maybe, if there's enough characters, the player could establish a village, and have 1 character from that village as a character... Back on track, I was aiming for a viable citizentry population of NPCs and characters.

Ok, maybe marriages could be with monotheism (maybe polytheism). But, what I meant by that was a union of two people, not what it was called specifically.

Concentrate on character generation rules first. That's the critical ruleset at the beginning as we have no game at all without it. The supporting rules are important too but you need to plant the seed before you prune the bonsai.

I'm also wondering when and how many characters can be created at once. If characters can have children, then so can those children. Too many characters at once could lead to a population explosion. That's why I'm thinking of having villages spread about in the territory...

But, the character question first. :)

what about haveing he manhatten project increase chance of Disease?

code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Disease Types
Natural
Non-Communicable
Common (allergies, rashes, malnutrition)
Crippling (Illnesses in general, bio-chemicals)
Fatal (organ failure, bio-chemicals)
Communicable
Common (The common Cold)
Crippling (
Fatal
Genetic
Common
Crippling
Fatal

Events for Diseases & Cures

Trade Each active trade with a civ adds a cumulative 10% chance of a disease occuring
Jungle 50% chance of a communicable disease if a city loses population points.
Floodplains 10% chance of a communicable disease if a city loses population points.
Nukes 75% chance of a fatal disease (nullified by Cure For Cancer)
Meltdown 25% chance of a fatal disease (nullified by Cure For Cancer)

Pottery Food storage encourages increased pests. Base Disease chance doubles
Writing Allows documentation of diseases only
Chemistry Allows for basic cures. Reduces disease chance by 5%
Allows for creation of common "natural" diseases


Medicine Nullifies the disease effect of Industrialization.
Sanitation Cures 50% of communicable diseases, and 25% of all non-fatal genetic diseases.
Allows for the creation of crippling "common" (controlled) diseases

Scientific Method Enables research of 1 disease (natural or genetic). 20% chance of a cure.

Industrialization Increases chance of a crippling disease by 75%
Ecology Lowers the chance of a crippling disease by 50%
Recycling Lowers the chance of a crippling disease by 20%

Cure For Cancer Nullifies any natural fatal disease
Longevity Cures all common and crippling genetic disease, and reduces fatal genetic diseases to 10%
Manhattnen Project 5% chance of a Crippling disease


~ 300 turns

50 years (1 turn = 1 year) = 6 character levels
50 years (1 turn = 5 years) = 30 character levels
50 years (1 turn = 10 years) = 60 character levels

Descendants (every 20 years) = 15 generations

20 players, 10 characters = 200 characters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


would this work?

The last few lines there is what I was trying to figure out if we could choose as many characters as we wanted. (though, not all are going to have descendants).

I had an epiphany last night, it came to me in a dream, use Fallout 2 names and formulas in most cases. And buikd around that method.

Strength: Raw physical strength, modfies Melee Skill, Throwing skill, unarmed skill, must be at least 5 to use large guns and heavier weapons.
Endurance: Stamina and physical toughness, can last longer in hostile areas (increasing resources gathered) where others cannot. Modifies Life Span, healing rate, disease resistence. modifies outdorsman, First aid.
Intelligence: Knowledge wisdom and the ability to think quickly. Modifies doctor, outdoorsman skills. Allows skills to increase faster, also NPC's give better deals when bartering.
Agility: Coordination and ability to move well. Modifies weapon skills, and through that, hunting abilities.
Luck: The ability of a character to have favourable outcomes in situaions. Modifies gambling skill and high or low luck effects overall character.

Base number 5, optional 3 skill points to distribute any way player sees fit.

TRAITS:
Determined when lineage is created, these are decided upon once and cannot be changed.
Longevity: Your metabolic rate is twice that of other characters, it makes you much more suseptable to illnesses, however your life span is longer.
Bruiser: You ae a master of strength, when you hit, the shockwave shatters windows, your Strength is increased by 2, but your intelligence is lowered by 1.
Small Frame: Beings the little guy never held you back, you may not be strong, but your agility makes up for it. Increases agility 2, drops strength 1.
Jinxed: The good thing is that when in combat, other characters have more...bad luck. The bad side is so do you. Characters encounter special events in combat more often, not necessary good events.
Social Butterfly: You didn't grow up smashing things and throwing rocks, you spent your time with other villagers, this has given you a great insight into people. Up 20% in all non combat skills, down 10% in all combat skills. (outdoorsman counts as a combat skill).
Sex Appeal: NPC's of the opposite sex have favourable attitudes toward you on first contact, same sex NPC's have a less favourable attitude toward you. Have more children, however you may find it difficult to make friends.
Skilled: You spent more time then others practicing what your good at, however your time wasnt spent on other matters. increase of 2 Endurance, decrease of 1 agility.
Gifted: You exhibit a jack-of-all-trades syndrome, your good at everything, master of nothing. Endurance increase of 2, agility decrease of 1.

SKILLS:
Unarmed: 15% + (2 X (AG+ST))=
Melee Weapons: 10% + (2 X (AG+ST))=
Throwing: 0% + (2 X (AG+ST)=
Small Guns: 5% + (4 X AG)=
Large Guns: (strength must be at least 6) 0% + (4 X AG)=
First Aid: 0% + (2 X (EN+IN))=
Sneak: 5% + (3 X (AG+LU)=
Lockpick: 10% + (EN+LU)=
Steal: 0% + (2 X LU)=
Repair: 0% + (3 X (IN+LU))=
Barter: 0% + (4 X IN)=
Gambling: 0% + (5 X LU)=
Outdoorsman: 0% + (ST+EN+IN+AG+LU)=

somebody needs to write a very simple guide with good examples for me... im blond!

WHat is that Rule that the Tech Shop Teacher always say. Oh yes,

Keep It Simple Silly ;)

Good idea, immortal, the Fallout 2 stats would work very well in game.