Any input on the day and time for the creation of the DG3 world? I assume that the newly elected President will be handling the affair, but will the date and time be preset? I would kind of like to know this information before the end of the month, so I could plan for it.

The new Pres will schedule the chat. If I'm elected it will be on Friday, May 2 at 6:59 PM EST (23:59 GMT).

:eek: NO 0'DARK 30 CHAT!!! :eek:

:p

Originally posted by Chieftess
:eek: NO 0'DARK 30 CHAT!!! :eek:

:p
Nope :)

I wouldn't dream of holding such an event except at a time where a majority of the players could attend. Actually the relatively fast chats during the opening term will allow me to have a good number of chats at the typical 7 PM EST slot. :D

I say for EA's sake we do it on May 5th ;)

Cinco de Mayo!!

Of course then he may not be able to attend..... Though I think it's a good day to start things off with though.

Speaking of EA, has anyone seen him lately?

Originally posted by Chieftess
Speaking of EA, has anyone seen him lately?

I have not seen him in a long time. I have forgoten when the last time we have seen him :s.

He was around just a couple days ago.

Looks like this is the final tally for the Game Creation:

Civilization: Random
Large World - 11 opponents
Land Mass - Random
Climate - Random
World Age - Random
# Opponents - Per world size (default)
Random Barbs


Modifications (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51307)

10% modification to Aircraft Bombardment Strenght

Bomber: 8 --> 9
Stealth Bomber: 8 --> 9
Cruise Missle: 16 --> 18

Originally posted by Chieftess
:eek: NO 0'DARK 30 CHAT!!! :eek:

:p

Acctualy, 01:00 for me, if we go with Shaitans schedule :p

Originally posted by Chieftess
Speaking of EA, has anyone seen him lately?

Howdy! Yep, I'm here, quite a nice place you guys have for the third installment of this little universe we call Civilization ;) Thanks for the 5 de mayo date Falcon, but most likely you're right, I probably won't be here, my boss will have me sent off some place in his name, lots of oficial historical society events that day and all. But it warms ny heart to see I have not been forgotten :)

EA

Shaitan, just a thought... You said that your first chat would be 6:59 PM EST. The U.S. went into daylight savings time a few weeks back. Tthat is, to say, do you mean 6:59 or 7:59 PM EDt?

Actually, Octavian X, all us yanks set our clocks ahead at the same time (basically), so 7pm is not going to be difficult to figure out for the people in the US. What we need to key on is the GMT time frame. If we get that straight, then everyone will know what time it starts, 'cause we'll be able to coorelate of that.

Excellent point, though.

@Octavian - Beats the heck out of me. I mean when my clock here in Atlanta hits 6:59 PM. ;)

Hmmm, I thought we were going for large world with continents. I was hoping we were going to use minimal water coverage. I guess I will have to check the polls.

Well, the old forums have just been archived. Just thought that everyone would like to know.

Here is something that is a rare sight for us regular forum-goers, a new post in archived forums. I thought I'd take a screenshot to remember this moment.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/archives.GIF

WHOAH! That's really odd!

Try this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/archives.gif

I think Stuck got a post in. Maybe TF just forgot to turn off access to posting. Kind of fitting though.. anarchy. ;)

Thanks CT. :) That's exactly what my sc looked like. Wait... that was mine! :)

Originally posted by Chieftess
Looks like this is the final tally for the Game Creation:

Civilization: Random
Large World - 11 opponents
Land Mass - Random
Climate - Random
World Age - Random
# Opponents - Per world size (default)
Random Barbs


Modifications (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51307)

10% modification to Aircraft Bombardment Strenght

Bomber: 8 --> 9
Stealth Bomber: 8 --> 9
Cruise Missle: 16 --> 18

I see a problem here. According to the polls, we will have continents. It will not be random.

This what I see:

Civilization : Random
Allow Civ-Specific Abilities
Culturally Linked Starting Locations
Level: Monarch
World Size: Large
World Type: Continents
Number of Opponents: 11
Barbarians: Random
Climate, Temperature, ans Age: Random
Land Mass: ????????

In order to choose Continents, we will have to choose a Land Mass Percentage. We can't choose continents without choosing this factor. If we choose continents and then hit Random, we could wind up with something we didn't vote on. This is the point I was trying to make on the last page. We need to decide this quickly in a Poll. I think we should use 60% water (the least).

It will still be random. The Pres will need to randomly generate the coverage and physically select it at game start. There's no need to poll or specify.

Wasn't there a second poll to accept the random options?

Water coverage was polled once with a 60% return for random, 20% for 60% coverage and 10% for each of the other options. Since all of the other options together couldn't beat random there was no need for a repoll.

EDIT: Same situation for world age and climate.

So then we're not going for Continents, that will be random also. So that official poll is out, then?

We will be playing with continents, just as the poll results showed. We will randomly determine the water coverage.

You can't determine water coverage randomly. You must choose it when you pick continents. If you choose one of the three "water coverage" options for Continents and then hit random, you could get a pangaea or archipelago map.

I thought the polls said everything was random. :confused:

Well, according to this DG3 Official Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=50214), we're playing with Continents.

Originally posted by Cyc
You can't determine water coverage randomly. You must choose it when you pick continents. If you choose one of the three "water coverage" options for Continents and then hit random, you could get a pangaea or archipelago map.
Originally posted by Shaitan
It will still be random. The Pres will need to randomly generate the coverage and physically select it at game start. There's no need to poll or specify.
It will be randomly determined via a separate pseudo-random number generator and then specified on the startup screen so Continents can be specified.

EDIT:

Example in Excel [ =ROUNDUP(RAND()*3,0) ] gives a random return of 1, 2, or 3. Assign a coverage value to each one and go to town. Heck, do it in Excel with [ =IF(RET=1,"60%",IF(RET=2,"70%",RET(E1=3,"80%",0))) where RET is the return from the formula above]. An archaic form such as a die could also be used for those who prefer simplicity. The forumula would be more random though. :p

OH, I get it, now. It's a closed-door, secret randomizing by the new elected President, not the game. Why didn't you say we were going to cheat in the first place, it would have saved me a hell of a lot of typing.

Originally posted by Cyc
OH, I get it, now. It's a closed-door, secret randomizing by the new elected President, not the game. Why didn't you say we were going to cheat in the first place, it would have saved me a hell of a lot of typing.
Did you forget a smilie there? If not I have to say I'm pretty offended at the accusation. If you trust the Pres to hit the specified buttons on the startup screen why wouldn't you trust the same person to run a random selection for water coverage?

See my random generator script? That's what we'll be using. :yeah:

What random generator script?

hahahahahaha! See the absurdity in this? Random means letting the game choose randomly. Not letting some person behing close doors choose whatever the hell they want! Oh yeah :)

Generally that is true. However we presented all options with a random choice for this game, even those that do not have a random selection in the game. Obviously that has to be randomized manually. In this case the game will not allow us to simply pick the options that the players want so additional means are required to ensure that the wishes of the citizens are fulfilled.

I swear that if I am elected President I will run the randomizer with my door open. Or at least all of the windows open as the new dog tends to run off if he sees the door unattended. :)

I'll have to show you my random script sometime in the chat. I have one that goes from 1 to 100. Making it go from 1 to 3 is no small change.

Or we could run a poll for the watercoverage and find out what the people want? Why are we to be stuck with what you want, Shaitan? :)

The poll was random for water coverage...

Originally posted by Cyc
Or we could run a poll for the watercoverage and find out what the people want? Why are we to be stuck with what you want, Shaitan? :)
The poll was run for water coverage and the results showed that an overwhelming percentage of responders wanted random. I stated this earlier in this very thread.

Incidentally, thanks for the vote of confidence regarding the Presidential elections. :)

Originally posted by Shaitan

The poll was run for water coverage and the results showed that an overwhelming percentage of responders wanted random. I stated this earlier in this very thread.

Incidentally, thanks for the vote of confidence regarding the Presidential elections. :)

But, we ALL know who's gonna win. ;)

Just trying to prove a point, Shaitan. The option option for land type was to be Continents. The poll for water coverage was informational. We can't keep messing up the begining of the game like this. All we need to do to correct the error is run a quick poll. That way all the bases are covered. I'm trying to help you recover from this, not crtiticize you :) .

Hmmm... I see the dilemma. Is there a way for the first President to publicly carry out this randomization? If we were all sitting around the table we could all see the die roll. I don't see how we can simulate that in the forums. :(

I do see Cyc's point of view. A big reason for choosing *random* when starting a game is that by doing so we do not know what was chosen. By randomly picky some settings and then selecting them we lose this *unknown* effect of the randomization. I'm assuming that's what Cyc is referring to when he calls this *cheating*

Of course another reason for going random is the thinking that these particular settings are not that important so just pick one and let's play. Looking at it from that perspective then Shaitan's suggestion is not only doable but admirable.

I do hope tempers will not flare over this. I suggest a quick info poll to let the citizens decide the matter. It looks like the options are *unknown random* which means we could not choose continents, stick with continents and poll the other options in question, stick with continents and let the president randomly pick the other options. We might want to split the last one into two options, one where the president keeps the actual choices secret and the other where he or she makes them public.

This may seem a very minor issue to some but it is a prime example of the pitfalls of the demogame. We all got together to choose the settings we want to use and came up with a set of choices that cannot be implemented the way they were intended to be! Throughout the course of DG3 we will undoubtedly make many more conflicting policy decisions. I strongly suggest that we start right here and right now on a peaceful and cooperative system of resolving such conflicts so they do not begin factionalizing us before we even start! There are two distinct ways of looking at randomization and both are just as valid. No one person should say *we are going to do it this way*. Put the question before the people, let them decide the matter and then we can all move on together.

Cyc, The poll wasn't informational and the results were happily accepted. There is nothing messed up here. If you'd like to run a poll, feel free to do so. The result will be random as the winner.

If only I knew how to program sessions in php, I could have everyone come over to my server and check out the RNG together. ;)

Good point donsig. We can still have the full sensation of randomization. I will have another adult in the house when I'm starting up the game (my wife). I'm sure she'd be happy to run the randomizer, select the box and go to the next screen. The only wierdness is the screenshot will be from before she does that and will show the random button selected for land mass/coverage. This way nobody, including the Pres, will know what the coverage is.

CT, if you win do you have a "second" to step in for you there?

Originally posted by Shaitan
Cyc, The poll wasn't informational and the results were happily accepted. There is nothing messed up here. If you'd like to run a poll, feel free to do so. The result will be random as the winner.

Wrong again, Shaitan. You yourself call this poll informational.

CT's Water Coverage Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=50132)

How do you like that? You're correct, Cyc. That poll was deemed informational. Here is the link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50209) to the confirmation poll including the Random water coverage that passed with 82% approval.

Point is the whole process was done incorrectly, Shaitan. You can't have Continents with random water coverage (Computer generated randomness). It's a bogus situation and should not have been done that way.

And no matter how you decide to do this, the President will be able to see which land mass, land type (whatever you want to call it) before the "next" button is pushed.

Originally posted by Cyc
Point is the whole process was done incorrectly, Shaitan. You can't have Continents with random water coverage (Computer generated randomness). It's a bogus situation and should not have been done that way.

And no matter how you decide to do this, the President will be able to see which land mass, land type (whatever you want to call it) before the "next" button is pushed.
No, it is not bogus. The options were presented to the people. They chose. We are implementing them. There is a method to implement the ones that were selected with no perceptible difference to any player. There is no problem here.

As I described in my post a short distance above I CAN start the game and not see what coverage is decided upon (with the assistance of my lovely wife).

Bah! A sign of a good leader is the ability to admit when they're wrong, Shaitan.

Originally posted by Cyc
Bah! A sign of a good leader is the ability to admit when they're wrong, Shaitan.
If I were wrong I would have absolutely no problem admitting it. In this case I am correct. A sign of a good leader is standing by a valid and correct decision.

I have the means to carry out the citizens' wishes exactly as polled and I intend to do so (if I sit in the big chair, that is). As far as I'm concerned this issue is a non-issue and I will enforce the results of the polls that showed an overwhelming approval for the options already determined. As I said before you have the option of going ahead and discussing/polling whatever you'd like. I'm sorry that I don't agree with your thoughts on this matter but you are free to go see if others do.

Wow - controversy over a minor detail and the game hasn't even started yet.
:p

Be advised of the big announcement on the CFC homepage. Some prospective citizens may come calling.

Originally posted by Cyc
Bah! A sign of a good leader is the ability to admit when they're wrong, Shaitan.

There was no point to this post other than to bring about a negative response, so it is most definately trolling. Please do not do it again. If you feel that strongly about this subject, continue discussion and/or post a poll on the matter, but refrain from insults and trolling.

What level of water coverage should we use?

Low water
Medium water
High water
Let the President pick it randomly and publicize the choice
Let the President pick it randomly and keep it secret
abstain

We chose continents in this poll. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50214)

By doing so we chose not to use the *random* option that randomly assigns both world type (pangea/continents/archipelago) and water coverage (low/medium/high). However, in this poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50209) we chose to randomly assign land mass (aka water coverage). In order to choose land mass/water coverage randomly it will have to be done outside of the Civ 3 game set up process. At the time of the original polls this was overlooked. Since some citizens may not have realized the implications of randomly picking land mass/water coverage the issue is being repolled.

This poll will be open for 48 hours.

This is my suggested poll. I don't know the percentages of water coverage. If someone supplies them they can be used in place of low/med/high. We can get a 2 day poll up without delaying the start.

The percentages are 60, 70, 80. You need one more poll option to represent the scenario I described a couple of times in this thread. Namely, an uninvolved 3rd party (my wife in my case) runs the randomizer and does the selection afte the rest of the items are set up. This way we have things exactly as the polls already decided, with nobody having knowledge of the random land mass amount (water level).

Originally posted by alamo
Wow - controversy over a minor detail and the game hasn't even started yet.
:p

Be advised of the big announcement on the CFC homepage. Some prospective citizens may come calling.

We've got to argue over SOMETHING! It's either this or the correct spelling of my name. And as to the announcement: Yes, they probably will come. Thats how I got here.

Same here.
And besides, new blood always helps.

I'm sure everything will be as we voted it to be.
In a completely unrelated topic:
It is amazing what the demogame does for post count. I went from 14 to 190 posts in the month since I signed up for the demogame and I'm almost 2/3 of the way to an avatar!

here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=947147#post947147) using Shaitan's third random option and the percentages he supplied. (Thank you Shaitan. :) )

Just a note:

The poll has ended and 60% water coverage has garnered the most votes. Thanky you, people of ....hmmm, thank you people :D

Our civilization is the Romans. Now we need the Nation Name.