Welcome to the Land Office. This is our main branch. There isnt exactly much to do right now, seeing as we lack map making. Once we get that, its Beaurocracy galore!

I am pleased to announce the development of a generator for events in relavance to loos and gain of tile (My sincere thanks go to CT for her help). Before each TC, I or one of my deputies will run the generator. Depending on what comes up, ALL tiles will be effected by that for the first turn of the TC. It could be something good, like +5 shields, or bad, like -3 food. I will post it in an index post.

Land Rules

1. Might makes right. The despot starts out with everything and everybody else grovels at his feet.

2. As territory grows it gets beyond the ability of one character to control. New nobles are raised to run these territories. They are sworn to allegiance but rebellions have been known to happen. The despot can actually give away land but this generally only happens as a reward to a long time loyal follower. More often the lesser nobles are running the despot’s land in service to him.

3. It’s possible for there to be more than one despot. If a revolt succeeds and is not put down by the despot that territory is then a separate entity. Note that newly acquired territory in the demogame still goes to the despot who holds the demogame capital.

4. In a monarchy new land goes to the most logical king. That is the royal character that has adjoining lands, nearby capital, etc.

5. In republic and democracy new land is offered for general sale to the populace.

6. In communism all land reverts to control of the government.

7. Land provides a number of gold, shields and food that it would generate if worked in a city. If no city controlled by the tile owner can access the tile it never makes more than what is shown when right clicking on the tile in the game. Gold can be converted to food or shields with one gold making 1/2 of either. If currency hasn’t been discovered yet all gold produced must be taken as shields or food.

8. Cities produce the number of gold, shields and food for the tile they reside on plus an additional gold for each population point.

9. A single contiguous land territory that has at least 5 * P (where “P” is the number of provinces in the demogame) will receive an additional gold per tile in the territory. If the territory has 10 * P receives 2 gold per tile in the territory and one that has 15 * P receives 3 gold per tile in the territory.

10. The Land Manager has overall authority over land issues and is responsible for keeping track of ownership, territories and the base g/f/s values of the tiles.

how do i become "royal"?

you can start a character who is of "noble" birth at the onset of the RPG (starts this week) at first it will be difficult to get a royal as the despot runs everything. As more land is availible the despot will promote those of the "upper gentry" to royals to manage the land. Once monarchy, republic and democracy hit, that will be much different.

When you start a character, cant you make it a noble, even as we are in despostism? or do I have to start on upper gentry..

We are all currently commoners groveling at the Despots feet. Its up to him (really it, seeing as its an NPC ran by the Game Manager) to make us bigger and better.
And Sir John: we lack the tech for soccer. Id wait for a combination of masonry/mysticisim and a dose of Bronze working before starting up a soccer team

As Nobility Manager, IMO no player character should start the game as higher than Gentry All nobility is at the whim of the Despot, so, as Saam said, we are all commoners groveling at the Despot's feet.

Note: I have not verified this with the Character Manager, so it is currently just my opinion, only.

also mine... even tougher: all should start as COMMON!
even the despot. he can set the rank for all citizens. including himself.
and we should not allow private appointment of characters into the upper castes. like "i now adopt character b1 of myself and as such he is higher born". caste membership should be only for direct personal descendants, not for adopted children.

but we should hold this discussion in your office, padma, not here :-) so please for the caste asignment discussion go to the nobility thread.

This is where the shield/food/commerce changes for T1 of a TC will be posted.

Like the rest of this office, dormant until mapmaking.

Just a couple of sugestions, oh wise Land Manager :)

-In a monarchy, it could be more fun to have multiple Lords and a king, like middle age Europe, lot's of little towns with their own Lord and a King in the Capital, or maybe two Kings, you know, divide the nation in two and see what happens, after all, the concept of nation didn't arrive until the 18th & 19th century.

-In republics and democracy, it would also be nice to have a land rush not unlike those that ocurred in the States after the west was won, that way, those that can't buy lands can have a taste of land ownership.

EA

@SAAM - We can't wait until mapmaking to have territories. The despot should already be managing/assigning territory for use so units can be raised.

Hey! Mr. Despot! Yea, Im talking to you (Plex?). Im here waiting...

Shaitan: The despot will be using the first few land tiles we have on his own propably... he needs units, he needs wealth :-)
As we get more land, the despot will propably give land to his humblest followers to govern it (propably other cities than the capitol, far out provinces etc.). this way ownership will spread with the time.

Ehecatl: the land rush in america was only there because nobody owned the land. the reason was that america skipped all the land-ownerhip methodogy of the ancient and middle aged aeras.
in europe, there was no land rush because the land was divided between the nobles before. as the nobles had to pay more and more for maintaining their land, units and buildings, they were forced to first lent the land away and later sell the land. otherwise we would not have any land ownerships in europe :-)
the land was also often the price people got for loyal followership over generations. with monarchy as tech, the nobles will struggle between each other for land. the monarch himself needs not hold the most land.


but with writing this something else arizes:
the despot should not be dependent on land-ownership for unit building or other expenses!
we should have a defined amount of shields / gold / food per land tile in the nation going to the state for maintenance of national troops, which will be under the controll of the leader.
the resources could also be used for other purposes, privately or nationally, like building palaces, monuments, paying assasins...

this way the leader can freely give away land without fearing to be without troops or other ownings.

also:
cities in the middle ages and the ancient times were NOT owned by anybody. people built there and used the resources in a small scale. the ownership of a city is mainly defined by its surroundings or stationed troops inside the city.

as such, the national troops of the leader could be stationed in citites to maintain peace. in any non-staioned city any citizen can call out a revolution and draft troops out of the resources of the city. the leader could moove any unit through any territory within the nation at will without explicit allowance.
and of course he can attack units of his citizens at any time (for example to fight down a revolution or fight another noble who is not loyal enough)

What are the rules on pre-mapmaking land ownership?

Stuck, I'd recommend something to you that I'm doing in the conflict office. Place a limit on the land a person can effectively control.

Take a look at Atrous' stats, and set a limit for the tiles he can control before he has to appoint loyal administrators to look after the land, and allow those admins to use the land as they wish.

Yes, that was the intention from the basic rules as written. Just the particulars need to be set.

i suppose that we could introduce a kind of "land corruption" which will cripple land output if no local administration is applied. this could vary with the governments.

for example during despotism, the corruption reduction should be 25% for each tile distance to the loctaion of the local administration.
for monarchy, this could be set to 20%, for republic to 15% and for democraty to 5%.

example:
if the despot has his "home" in the capitol, the capitol tile will have 0% reduction of its output. all tiles around the capitol will have a 25% reduced output. all tiles around them 50%, all tiles around them 75% and all tiles more than 4 tiles away would have no output at all.

if he wants to prevent this he can set up a "local administration" in another city. the same rules would apply to that city. the local "administrator" (or maybe grand visir) would be able to completely use the tiles as he wishes, but the despot, who would be the owner of those tiles legally, could demand a %-age of the tile output as tax, for example.
the "local administrator" could raise troops and therefor later on attack the despot if he wishes to gain ownership of the lands he administrates.

Hmm// good idea. Atrous can control Noshuret, but who will control Gornia (Did I spell that correctly?)
I know it has been decreed that Helena will control the city, so I suppose it goes to Dis...
But that means Helena can set up as the despot for there and we will have 2 despots...

Ill read Dis's post above this and think .

If I'm not mistaken, Atrous declared that Prince Diutius would rule Gorina. I saw nothing in his statement about Helena.

My apologies, Prince Diutius. I just assumed it would go to his daughter.
As for Dis's idea:
Corruption is a good idea. Its just that your factors may be a little high. If there is an admin in every town, thats good.
I like it.

Just remember: We all have until Map Making, technically, to draft up a final land set. Ill be working on it later this week

wait a minute, we are living in a primite comunism (to quote Engels) land doesn't belong to anyone, it is communal, therefore no land should be distributed along the despots loyal subjects, after all, under despotism power is controled via fear, if you give land you give power...
It wasn't until monarchy that the king started giving land since monarchy isn't based on fear, but on nobility and honour (based on Montesquieu) I think we should hold off the land giving part until monarchy, land ownership this early in the game is just too early, there are no titles during despotism, there is the despot and no one else.

EA

Land isn't being given. Land use is being granted.

Its being placed under ones care... Thats how I see it.
Anyway, the corruption bit is good. When we get them, courthouses will serve as fighters. As will multi-rulers and later on houses et all.

then why is the current despot giving titles such as prince and princess? I'm all for role play, but the first rule in this forum is stick to the techs in the demogame, nobility doesn't apear until after organized religion. We have neither.

Nobility was along well before organized religion. The titles were not generally the same but the positions and relative rankings have been used back through recorded history.

@cyc+stuck: it was posted by the despot that diutius will controll gorina, but that HELENA will inherit the lands surrounding gorina.

the post was in the despot's thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=972713#post972713

so helena will be the owneress of the lands surrounding gorina if the despot dies.
only the CONTROLL OF THE CITY (which means organizing the usage for example, being in controll of the people and administration etc.) was given to diutius and will propably be kept with him even after the despots death.

note also that helena already stated that her lands will be given to her daughter upon her death.

Ok. So you own the city and Cyc owns the surrounding lands... Looks like you two are going to be a family for quite a while now...

read it: owning is helena... cyc only has an administative position :-P

Quote of the dictators will:
-The land of the Empire will be split between my daughter and my son following my death. My daughter will recive Gorina and surrounding lands, my son will recive Noshuet and all future lands.

for cyc he later only said he can "controll" the city :-) not that he owns it...

so you have to be careful what exactly people state ;-)

NOTICE:
as atrous died of old age the most recent TC, i will claim my ownership of the lands around Gorina.

these are the lands helena lifespanius, and later her daughter, claims at the moment...

they have a income of (afaik):
18food 11shield 13gold

the teritory is
14 tiles=+28g

together this makes a tc'ly income of:
18food 11shields 41gold

the gold will be converted either in shields or food as needed.
who will store the info what she owns?

attached is a map of her ownings....

@dis. Got it. Land validates condtradicts claim. Its actually more then that.
29f/23s/16c

You're now free to raise units.

@stuck: i already did that without even knowing the exact values :-) i just knew it was more than i needed.

ok, so my total income is
29f/23s/16c
+
28c for territory
which totals to
29f/23s/44c

As despot, I am claiming all the lands of Fanatica, other than the ones owned by my wife Helena. The cities of Noshuret and Penquinadua together produce116g, 36f, and 31s (this includes all the bonuses for contigous tiles and pop points). Nar Shadda produce a total of 11g, 8f, and 10s. So actually the Despot has a total of 127g, 44f, and 41s.

Not nesecearily, everyone. Its not just multiplying, its counting each individual f/s/c for each tile. I will work on this later, but until then, I will validate these claims, which are most likely below that of what it relly is.

ooc:
cyc: just keep in mind that if you want to give lands to others for usage, the outcome of those tiles will not count into yours :-) same if you give land away... also keep in mind that the troops are pretty expensive in support :-(

I'm not real sure yet how to work the conversion from resources to troops, but I'll read up on it and do my best.

Im not sure either. Thats Octs field, I think. If not, I'll come up with it.

ooc cyc:
a units costs 1/10 of the civ3-cost in shields... example: a legion costs 3 shield (30 in civ3).
the support costs 1shield+1food each tc

i proposed some rulechanges concerning land to allow us to distibute the lands among the characters....
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53675

LAND EVENT:
ONE TILE PER PLAYER GAINS 1 FOOD FOR THE FIRST TURN

Originally posted by Cyc
As despot, I am claiming all the lands of Fanatica, other than the ones owned by my wife Helena. The cities of Noshuret and Penquinadua together produce116g, 36f, and 31s (this includes all the bonuses for contigous tiles and pop points). Nar Shadda produce a total of 11g, 8f, and 10s. So actually the Despot has a total of 127g, 44f, and 41s.

As I have now given three of the Despot's land tiles to Tasius, by Proclamation, my total income has been reduced.total income is now:

126g / 41f / 38s

and mine is 2:2:1 (SFG).

Post 2.5k!:D

Both are validated. You're free to go.

TO NARA SHADA (whatever...) and LITTLE ITALY
PLEASE MAKE TILE COUNTS. YOU CANNOT raise troops without tile counts.
In s/f/g form, please

Little Italy's Tile Count

4s/4f/2g

My tile count: 4/4/0 f/s/g

confirmed for Civ
CG- See post by Civ in your thread

My count was 5.3.1 and has been lowered to 4.2.1 with the loss of a tile (after I raised legions).

Saam, I think my tile count is 4/1/0 after raising a legion.

@boots- yes
@civ- 3/3/0

LAND OFFICE TALLY
Civinator: 4/4/0
Little Italy: 4/4/2
Lifespanius: 38/41/126
Atroua: 2/2/1
House of DiSaaMuel: 1/1/0

A note: these are prior to unit raises.

All should know that Stuck as Land Manager can send you on your merry way to request troops from Octavian X, but he can not authorize those troops. I requested troops many days ago and they were denied to me by the fact that they were never authorized. Because the troops were never authorized by Octavian X, I never received them. Therefore you were never given them by me. All this is moot as none of it has really happened.

Cyc - You did give troops, and Oct's nondenial of them should indicate that he approved. You would also have no army whatsoever by your own ruling, and have no power to crush any rebellion. I think you should accept the existance of troops, including your own. If you don't like the rebellions occurring, you should use your troops to crush them, not start whining about game technicalities and Oct's rule that is invalid.

@SAaM- my tile count is 3.3.1 I mis-counted.

No whining here, bootsie. It doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else think of the rules, they are set, deployed, and enforced by the managers. We can assume nothing. We all were left holding the bag on this one. Give it up.

Cyc, rules are set by votes of the managers or people. They cannot be set by unilateral declaration of one manager, especially resource rules, which would be a land manager decision even if one manager could declare rules. The rules that are being violated were agreed to in a decision of the populace, and cannot be overruled without due process, in this case, a vote. Also, do you admit that you have no troops under your command if we were to go with what you said?

My tiles should produce: 2\2\0 Right?

Ok, I accept Oct's most recent judgement. Cyc, my argument with you is over.

i am confused. can someone please draw a map of the situation at the moment?

Situation: Bootsoots rebelled and he controlls the land around nar shadaa together with civantor and Me. He called the land Nar Shadaaland.

CG rebelled and created his own country, Little Italy.

So currently there is four nations. (after size)

Fanatika
Nar Shadaaland
Little Italy
Atrousia

of land or of troops dis?

both if possible. i even dont know where which of the ownings is :-(
not to mention troop positions ;-)

hy stuck...

i think my current income should be 18f 12s 42g
please confirm... or correct

Dis- this is what I got.
15/10/30
Just a question, seeing as this is the second time my total has been lower then yours,
can I see the math you did to arrive with the tile values?
Here is what I did:
[code]
2 0 1
2 0 1
2 0 1
1 1 1
0 1 1
1 1 1
1 1 1
2 2 2
1 1 0
1 1 0
1 1 1
1 1 0
15 10 30 (10 (sum) plus 20)

Upon doing it over, it is apperantly 17/10/48, which is something neither of us had.

As noted in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=996287#post996287), I Marcus Lifespanius do hereby break away from the Nation of Fanatica and claim the lands between Noshuret and Gorina as my own. The new nation shall be called Marconia and I shall be Despot. Total resource output for the nation is 5s/ 7f/3g. Please verify and validate.

7/5/3.. fine with that

To all- oy... No more new countries, please. Otherwise I'll be forced to coup d'eta Penguinadua

As noted in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=996312#post996312), I. Mellita Roberts have broken away from Fanatica and claimed my own country. I am claiming the 12 tiles of Penguinadua (excluding the one owned by Helena). The name of the nation is Mellita and I am Despot. Total output of resources is 9s/14f/3g. Please verify and validate.

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
7/5/3.. fine with that

To all- oy... No more new countries, please. Otherwise I'll be forced to coup d'eta Penguinadua

OOC: @Stuck, To late now, Cyc now controls it :s. Looks like you coup d' eta would not see its final stages :(.

Stuck, it is time for you to find land and declare a nation. Noshuret looks good.

Can you please Verify that Italshuret produces 20/21/14 (f/s/g). I think i am lower than usual. I don't know if there is a combined territory rule that gives a bonus.

Stuck - If you want your own country, take some land from Gorina. This is the only land in Fanatica now, and Helena controls it. It looks like land controlled by Diutitus has ceased to exist.

BTW, Civanator. Check your thread for Italshuret. You've claimed some of Marcus' tiles by mistake.

Originally posted by bootstoots
Stuck - If you want your own country, take some land from Gorina. This is the only land in Fanatica now, and Helena controls it. It looks like land controlled by Diutitus has ceased to exist.

Well, if you've been paying attention, boots, you'd realize that the Despot already collected the resources for the tiles he owns. In fact the resources he had in his balance were used by Mellita and Marcus. If Stuck or Octavian X is paying attention, they will realize this. Civ can claim that territory, but he will not be able to raise troops. And that's where I'm headed first. His stone -throwing peasants wont stand a chance.

Yes, I do know that the Despot has collected resources from the tiles. I think there are unclaimed tiles to the SW and W of Fanatica, if Stuck wants his own country.

to land-management:
take notice of this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=997745#post997745

this will be done for all tiles which are not conquered by revolutionary troops. this wont affect tiles defecting from the nation when the ownership was transferred to their owner, but for all tiles for which somebody "declared ownership" without even having owned them or conquering them.

signed: the despotess bellona lifespania

ooc@stuck:
please provide me with a map of all land which were OFFICIALLY GRANTED to other persons than the despot. all "claimed" tiles are back in fanatica now and under controll of the despot and the counter-revolution.
i just would like to have some kind of list to define which nations are really there and which are only a rumor.

Okay.. hold on... I just got in
@all- the comment was sarcasam. You know, when you make a sarcastic remark. Im NOT creating my own country.
Now, lemme get this straight. Dis, Using Bellona, is the OFFICIAL despot. He/she is Diutius's successor. Little Italy, Artura and Nara Shadda are now back under Fanatican control, as are Dis's two other kingdoms. It is FANATICA again, not fanatica et all.

Is that so far correct?
If so, you're asking for a full tile value of all of Fanatica.

If this is wrong, please correct. I just got online from being down due to new router instalation

Here:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Fanatica.JPG

I think it is correct. Also, Helena and Fanatica are the country, but i was showing Helena's land too. Antony and Nero are in Nar shaddaaland (NSL)

So for my view:
* The lands which were given away by the despots of fanatica officially will be existing until attacked or whatever.
* Any land tiles not given away by an offical despot of fanatica but otherwise claimed are back under fanatican controll.
* Bellona is the successive despot of fanatica
* Tasius is controlling part of the army, Bellona the other part, Helena the third part.

i nevertheless dont know who has usage rights at the moment. i believe the only ones with active territories are (in players) plexus, bootstoots and civgeneral as diutius deleted some ownings before he went off.
i also believe those are the only nations formed...
but correct me if im wrong.

Key:
Fanatica: Helena(pink) and Fanatica(light blue)

Atrouia: Tasius(red)

Little Italy: Sergei(grey)

Marconia: Marcus(weird brown)

Mellita: Mellita(lime green)

Nar Shaddaaland: Julius(blue), Antony(black), and Nero(yellow).

ANNOUNCEMENT:
marcus and mellitas ownings will be annexed by fanatican troops immediately. as cyc left the game obviously this is propably in his will.

So there are 4 nations now:
Fanatica, Atrouia, Little Italy and Nar Shaddaaland...

So that gets the following ruling:
The Empires of Nar Shaada and Little Italy are not recognised by the Land office. The Empires of Artouiaand Fanatica (duh) are. I thank Cyc for taking his Multiple Personality disorder medicine :) and rejoining his countries with Fanatica for the greater good.

That is all. So it has been written, so it shall be done.

Nar Shaddaa was given to Bootstoots, but now Sir John and I have taken it over. I am going to post a new map of the territory.

BELLONA:
I ask all those nations to pledge fanatican rule.
They can be souvereign states, but all new tiles should be added to fanatica :-)

Stuck, please verify the Land of DePaolo, and it's income: 5/5/2 f/s/g. The 2 gold will be converted to 1 shield. I own the Mts. W of Nar shaddaa, Cattle SW of Nar Shaddaa, plains S and SE. The SE belongs to Julius. Also the city is mine.

OOC:
civ: the conflict manager declines gold-conversion. for as long as we dont have a final ruling we wont be able to convert. pitty that is, but its true.

As stated, I will not be verifying any land of Nar Whatsitsface... NS
However, if I were, you'd be good to go

Why can't you verify my land income?

@stuck:
please note that all existing nations have complied to contracts with fanatica that new tiles (for the moment) will go to fanatica (exceptions see the details of the contract, but you sureley know).

here is a list of all approoved lands of the despot. this is up to date and will show all lands which are officially owned by people. i will also try to provide a list of nations which sesult out of that...

pendig though is acceptance of the land office for those ownings. i can not decide that...

blue: civanator (nation)
green: plexus (atrousia)
pink: will be given to stucks character
yellow: ownings of the lifespania family. owner: bellona personally
red: area to be owned by the despot of fanatica

the are also shows land which is not yet under our controll. the map does not show current ownings but approoved claims.

ooc: one addition:
the area marked blue for depaolo will obviously be split between civanator, bootstoots and sir john. i will not add additional area to the claim-matrix. as such those 3 will have to define how they will split the land up.
please reject any claims of them going outside the blue area. also all 3 complied via irc to the contract with dipaolo, and as such any new tiles will go to fanatica... ownership is defined by the matrix above.


also to you stuck:
please notify me for which character i reserved the pink land.
notice that those are not the original ownings, but for better borderlines i needed to "moove" your territory, therefor i enlarged it.

Stuck, please verify the Nar Shaddaa figures. We are recognized by Fanatica, so you too should recognize us. I now control the plains square with the road SE of the city, and bring in 1.1.1. Please verify Civanator's, Sir John's, and my figures. I see no reason for you not to.

With this, It is verified.
All Nar Shahadawhatsits figures are now offically verified.

Ok, and as far as I can tell:
Antony has 5.5.1 (unless the city is producing one extra gold for some reason or another
Janus has 3.5.0
Julius has 1.1.1
I will post a map soon.

These findings are validated. Antony has 5 tiles? then its 5.5.6

Also, the Province of DiSaaMuel, home to beuarocrats and the future home of Neoism is 6/7/6. And yes, Its validated

Civantor is not woning the city. Its neutral..

Antony owns only four squares. He controls five, but one is owned by Julius.

STUCK:
annoucement: caeser is now the despot of fanatica as he married bellona. bellona keeps her land for the lifespanian line.
so caeser now controlls the red marked lands in the map above, and bellona the yellow.

could you do me a favor and caluclate bellonas landincome for those yellow lands which we controll allready?

Stuck:
My current holdings are at

6.5.4 (FSG)

done

here is an updated map of the EFFECTIVE ownings as of 1025BC. this is not the claim-map, but the map of the ownings inside fanatica (no foreign nations! ask their despots for a list) and under controll in the DG

RED=despot (Caeser Jade atm)
YELLOW=lifespanian family line (bellona atm)
PINK/PURPLE=DiSaaMuel Family (Katie DiSaaMuel atm)

I did a land update for all of Fanatica (ruled by CG/Dis) and this is what I got:
CG- 18f/22s/44c
Dis- 35f/24s/68c
SaaM- 3f/4s/0c

These are the current stats for FANATICA. Not Nar Shadawhatsitsface, not Little Italy

While I'm at it:
Plex- 6f/5s/4g (is this including the P*5 Bonus?)

tnx stuck... you are the one and only penguin!

welcome dis. those are exact figures. Just a little egotistical question- when the next city expands, can I get some of those tiles? Sure, Im the biggest non despotic province in Fanatica, but I wantta be a bit bigger :)

Stuck: If its land marked in yellow in the above map, you have to talk to Bellona or Hellena, if its in Red you got to talk to the despot ;-)

What bonus, saam?

hy mr land manager, please verify the tile-stats for the lifespanian family in helenatica.


01)0f1s1g
02)1f1s1g
03)2f0s1g

04)1f1s1g
05)2f1s2g Gorina, Pop3
06)2f1s2g

07)1f1s2g
08)2f2s2g
09)2f0s1g
10)1f1s0g
11)1f1s0g
12)2f0s0g
13)1f1s0g

14)1f1s0g
15)1f1s0g
16)1f1s1g
17)1f1s0g
18)1f1s0g
19)2f1s1g Penguinadua, Pop4
20)2f0s0g

21)1f1s0g
22)1f1s0g
23)1f1s1g
24)1f1s0g
25)1f1s1g
26)1f1s0g
27)2f1s1g


tilevalues: 35f24s18g
population:+ 7g (7*1)
tilecounts:+ 81g (3*27)
-------------
total: 35f24s106g

this should add up to:
35f, 24s, 106g

Good to go with me... Oy, thats alot...

Claims verified.

While Im at it, tile income for the Despot.
33F/36S/111G

Stuck, my tile income would be 3f/5s/0c without bonuses... I have 4 tiles.

ok. Approved.

stuck: i made a map of helenatica:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1005055#post1005055

with coordinates which i will reference in future land-posts...

Sir_John and I request that you disregard the 2 gold per tile land bonus for Neronia when the borders enlarge (making it ten tiles large), replacing it with the 1 gold per land tile bonus. This is to make the income between DePaolo and Neronia more equal.

I cant ignore it. But, I can sugest that you take it up with CT. I am not allowed to ignore it, but CT can edit it.

May an organization (the ONSS) own land and raise troops, rather than an individual?

another game manager ruling. I see only as single people, not one. You really should form one country...

thee jade commandos owns troops. as did the jedis in the dg2. I think it should be allowed...

Atrouian Values are now at

8.5.6 (FSG)

2 0 2
1 1 0
1 1 1
1 1 1
2 1 2
1 1 0

Land signs off

Helenatica Land Statistics
to be verified by you. i used my coordinate system as previously introduced, but i couldt update my map yet :-)

so here they are:


I9 2f0s0g
I10 2f0s1g
I11 2f0s0g

J9 1f2s0g
J10 2f1s1g (Nur Gisnod, pop1)
J11 2f1s0g

K4 0f1s1g
K5 1f1s1g
K6 2f0s1g
K9 1f2s0g
K10 2f0s0g
K11 2f1s0g

L4 1f1s1g
L5 2f1s2g (Gorina, pop3)
L6 2f1s2g
L9 2f0s0g
L10 2f0s0g

M1 1f2s0g
M2 0f1s0g
M3 1f2s2g
M4 1f1s2g
M5 2f2s2g
M6 2f0s1g
M7 1f1s0g
M8 1f1s0g
M9 2f0s1g
M10 1f1s0g

N1 2f1s1g (Funkytowne, pop1)
N2 1f1s0g
N3 1f2s0g
N4 1f1s0g
N5 1f1s0g
N6 1f1s1g
N7 1f1s0g
N8 1f1s0g
N9 2f1s1g (Penguinadua, pop3)
N10 2f0s0g

O4 1f1s0g
O5 1f1s0g
O6 1f1s1g
O7 1f1s0g
O8 1f1s1g
O9 1f1s0g
O10 2f2s1g

total:
61f41s24g

tilecount:44 = 44*3=132g
popcount: 8


total income:
61food
41shields
164gold


please verify

i am considering on giving tiles out, but have to draw a map first so please give me time. i was surprised by the many cities i now own.

You're good to go Dis. Have fun with those legions!

notice: here is the updated tile-graphics of helenatica...
with a grid :-9 as requested
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1005055#post1005055

Plainia has annexed a plains square and a mountain square, and is making 2.3.2 now. Please confirm this.

BELLONA OF HELENATICA:

here is an announcement of some land grants helenatican administration is going to give out for the next TC:

atrousia: O6+O7
disaamuel: O8-999, P8-999,Q8-999,R8-999

these grants will be effective from the next TC on. so there will be no change in the land-income for this TC.
also note that i will update the map to reflect the new borders asap.

the sense of this is mainly giving both atrousia and disaamuel 1 tile more to their west. in case of disaamuel province, i thought it would be nice to extend it completely to the SE to make it "look" like a real coastal province rather than a enclave inside helenatica.

Thanks, dis. Now Im a province! Yay!

ADDITIONAL NOTICE TO ABOVE POST:
also effective from the next TC on, helenatica will give the tiles O4+5 back to the despot of fanatica.

OOC:
as such, now helenatica got rid of all O-tiles, which will give me a nicer way to put coordinates on my map :-)

NOTICE:

i drew a fast graph of the ownings and nations:
http://disorganizer.gmxhome.de/map570bc-small.jpg
big version (http://disorganizer.gmxhome.de/map570bc.jpg)

note that the redish areas are FANATICA, blue and green are the nation of ONSS and ATROUIA.

the map is of 570BC

EDIT:
also note that this map does not represent the "claim areas" but only the real existing ownings as of 570BC.

Atrouia has annexed the following lands with the despot's permission:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1014278

In the ONSS, the nation of Neronia was defeated. Please confirm these new values:
DePaolo: 4.6.6
Plainia: 3.5.6
Here is the map. Plainia is in blue, DePaolo is in red:

I'll validate.

HELP WANTED
This is an offical Land Office Decree. The office is looking for a few good men (or the occasional woman) to serve as Map Makers. The job currently pays nothing, but a salary would be created out of a percentage of land sale income. Must have some experinece with PSP or Photshop or even Paint. Jobs hours are (currently) not demanding, but will increase as the game goes on (especailly this office). Please apply in this thread or the land office if interested.

Neo DiSaaMuel, Cartographer
(OCC- Yes, I've integrated my job into my character)

I would be interested in being a Map Maker.

Okay.. We have our first contestant. Your mission is to do the following:
You must draw up the DiSaaMuel Province, Arturia and the border with them, Helenatica and Fanatica. (a note- this will be the test for all the aplicants.) As you can see from a few posts up, Dis has already made that map. In this map, you must do the CLAIM AREAS. Not what is current, but what has been promissed to each person.

Also- @dis- would YOU be interested in the job?

Stuck, how does the rule for tile income in gold work?

Also, dis- How do you make the shadow like that on the maps?

Its 1/2, I believe. every g gets turned into 1/2 a s or a f.

yea- it is. So for example, your 10g could be 5s or 5f or 2f, 3s. Just specifify.

Caeser Jade: I would like to clame Land tiles that I have attached to this post. THe Ownership will fall under the Jadius (Jade) Family and shall be known as the Jadius Provance. THis Provance Will be a provance in Fanatica

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/JadiusProvance.jpg

@CG- Can do.

A note to all: Later tonight I will do a full value chart for all of Fanatica and Atrouia

I would also like to give GM the land grant to use the tiles on the map I have attached.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/GM::slandgrant.JPG

@stuck: no. no time
@civanator: i do paintshop pro and use layers. you can draw the outline of the area in the layer and then set the transparency for the layer to for example 50%... so 50% color of the outline will be used and 50% of the original map ;-)

Stuck, can you verify (for the records) that DePaolo has an Income of 9/12/14 (f/s/c), and an upkeep cost of 7/7 (f/s)?

your good to go.

edit- never mind

here is a map of the current ownings as of 350 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/co350.JPG

Black= DePaolo Province
Yellow= Helenatica Province
Blue= Peesea Province
Grey= Nero Province
Pink= Jade Province
Dark Red= DiSaaMuel Province
Light Blue= Grandmaster's Land
Lime Green= Atrouia
Red= Ownings of the Despot.

CG- I suggest just giving that last tile SE of Grandmaster's land to him.

Civ is the official cartographer of the land office,

CivGeneral and I are going to be the official cartographers, and a map will come out After every TC and before every TC.
I will make the map before every Turn Chat
CG will make the map after every turn chat

civ: the "light blue" is cyan. ;P

maybe an idea: would it be possible to also include the "claiming areas" in the specific colour, maybe as shaded area?
this would help the despot decide whom to give new land to.

Yes, I agree with dis. Include the land that people have claimed and the land that will be given them when a city expands and so on...

Stuck: Can you Confirm my land ownings:

12\10\3

Ive doubled cheked it so it should be corect..

Stuck, please confirm my land ownings as 10/9/24. SJ, you own more gold because of the tile rule.

Youre corect booty. I have 12 gold stuck.

I will post a map with claims on it in a moment...

Here it is, Same color key as last time. The spray-paint area is the claimed area.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/co3501.JPG

civ: i think you dont need the despot's claim area any more. as we only have atrouia as nation except fanatica now all new land goes to fanatica anyways. also, please expand the disaamuel claim area as their current ownings expanded to the SE.

SJ and boots totals are fine

So they would have it like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/dsm.JPG

Stuck- may I be assistant Land Manager? I am very active in Land Management.

I have done my calculations, The Jade province has the followinf Stats for its land: 29f/35s/53c

civanator: the cow is in the disaamuel claim area :-)

@civ-
1) that area currently dosent exist
2) when it dose, its mine

dis- So I just add the cow? or the tiles NE of it too?

SaaM- it is the claim area, not exiting area.

the cow+water tiles making the disamuel territory a rectangle :-)

OK. I will have the next map out before the next TC. Any sub-maps can be requested.

CG- Jade Province Land income is 27/35/119 because of tile rule. Other than that it is:
Verified.

*Civanator hands CivGeneral a Certificate of Verification

Oh, yea. Before anyone goes crazy, Civ is the assitant land manager. He can verify as well. (and do the paperwork too(

Please verify the land income of helenatica as of 350BC:

I 9 2f0s1g
I10 2f0s1g
I11 2f0s0g

J 9 1f2s0g
J10 2f1s1g NUR GISNOD (2)
J11 2f1s0g

K 4 0f1s1g
K 5 1f1s1g
K 6 2f0s1g
K 9 1f2s0g
K10 2f0s1g
K11 2f1s0g

L 4 1f1s1g
L 5 2f1s2g GORINA (4)
L 6 2f1s2g
L 9 2f0s1g
L10 2f0s0g

M 1 1f2s0g
M 2 0f1s0g
M 3 1f2s2g
M 4 1f1s2g
M 5 2f2s2g
M 6 2f0s1g
M 7 1f1s0g
M 8 1f1s0g
M 9 2f0s1g
M10 1f1s0g

N 1 2f1s1g XAK TSAROTH (1)
N 2 1f1s0g
N 3 1f2s0g
N 4 1f1s0g
N 5 1f1s0g
N 6 1f1s1g
N 7 1f1s0g
N 8 1f1s0g
N 9 2f1s1g PENGUINADUA (3)
N10 2f0s0g


Resources: 53f 33s 24g
Tilecount: 37
Popcount: 10

Gold Calculation:
24+37*3+10=145

TOTAL LAND INCOME:
53f 33s 145g

Grid East of Inadatto:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LMg1.JPG

btw: as we dont havemapmaking yet and i am helenatican, i am refusing to use a foreign measurement on my calculations. as such my posts will always contain the helenatican coordinate system :-)

dis you are Verified

*Civanator hands disorganizer a Certificate of Verification

(Checked and Verified)

stuck, can you verify that DePaolo produces an income of 9/12/26 f/s/c

@civ- wrong computer, but I have my own grid I'm using. Perhaps we need to make a standard one...
On MM, we will.
And DePaolos stats check out

OOC@landoffice
i think this is a good idea to roleplay mapmaking. we just define mapmaking as the tech needed to make an international map with standardized grids and metrics... as such, we should DEFINITELY have a own grid-system for each province and nation, as well maybe also different naming systems for the coordinates (some could use 1/1, come A/1, some 1/A for example) and maybe even conflicting names for landmarks (2 people of different nations could talk about the same landmark with different names if the origin from different places).
all this could then be standardized with mapmaking and the first international maps of the land-office :-)

@land office, concerning corruption:
maybe an alternative idea to land corruption / something to add ontop of it...:

land maintenance cost!
the keeping of land should cost persons something... gold!
so with currency, we could implement cost for landownership, maybe even raising with the government type ;-)

example for despotism:
each tile above# ---- cost in gold/tc
0 --- 0
10 ---- 1
15 ---- 2
20 ---- 3
25 ---- 4
30 ---- 5
35 ---- 10
... and then the cost double each 5 tiles

examples:
if i own <10 tiles, i pay nothing for them
tiles# --- payment in gold/tc
10 --- 0
15 --- 5
20 --- 15
25 --- 30
30 --- 50
35 --- 75
40 --- 125
45 --- 225
50 --- 425
55 --- 825
60 --- 1625
65 --- 3225
...

just something to think about :-)
this will make people decide to either have much land and no money, or have money and fewer tiles...

together with corruption this would be a beast, but maybe alone it would help keeping things simple :-)

not that the above thing should only be applied to tiles in ownership which were not given away for usage (i still think the split between ownership and usage right is necessary)

so the example for tile usage would be:
i own 60 tiles, but 40 are given away completely for usage (i have no income from them)...
as such, only 20 tiles will count for the maintenance, and i would have to pay only 15 instead of 1625g/tc.
of course if i get full-usage of tiles which are under other ownership, they will add to my count:
in the above example, if i in addition to my 60 tiles ownership (as you remember with 40 given away usage) get usage of 10 other tiles from another character, then my effective tilecount would be 30 and thus i would have to pay 50 g/tc instead of 15 g/tc

@dis- its a refined formula... I like....

Map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/co350.JPG

CG- I strongly suggest you give GM that one tile that the despot owns that is SE of his land. It will make it a little easier.

he could also assign it to his own ownings :-) which would also make it easier ;-)

Land Management Announcement:
Because of our golen age these are in effect (they are added to incomes):
Plains gain +1 shield (unless modified by shield giving resource)
Roads gain +1 gold
Mountains gain +1 shield (unmined)
Hills gain +1 shield (unless modified by shield giving resource)
Regular grasslands gain nothing
Tiles next to rivers gain +1 gold
Bonus Grasslands gain +1 shield
Forests gain nothing
All cities produce 2f/2s/2c, Noshuret produces 4c (this is without citizen bonus)

Thank you and have a nice day

I will verify everyone's new income if they post it.

well, now this calculation is far do complicated *sigh* why not just let us gain 150% ? this would be much easier than modifying single tile outcomes :-(

I have to agree with dis here. Escpessially for those with large terretorys..

It does sound good. Maybe. ;)

@Dis- thats what I planed on doing. Just a 1.5 multiplier

I now have 18\15\18 in land income. Can u verify that stuck or civ.

is that with or without the 1.5 multiplier?

with.

ok. its verified, then. Just remember to take off the multiplier when the GA is done

Please confirm my new ownings as 15/13/36.

bootstoots: Confirmed

and stuck, can you verify my income at 14/18/21?

the old: 53f 33s 145g with the 1.5 multiplier:


79.5 food = 79 ?
49.5 shield = 49 ?
217.5 commerce =217 ?

i did not update according to the up to date save... so i just post here for reference... the old values very validated and i didnt loose land (in fact i gained).

INCOME CALCULATION FOR HELENATICA, 210BC


G 5 0f2s2g
G 6 1f2s5g
G 7 2f2s0g

H 5 0f2s2g
H 6 2f2s2g Tyvek (1)
H 7 2f2s2g

I 5 0f2s2g
I 6 1f2s2g
I 7 2f2s0g
I 8 1f2s0g
I 9 2f0s2g
I10 2f0s2g
I11 2f0s0g

J 4 2f2s0g
J 5 1f2s2g
J 6 2f0s2g
J 7 2f0s0g
J 8 2f0s0g
J 9 1f2s0g
J10 2f2s2g NUR GISNOD (2)
J11 2f2s0g

K 3 1f2s2g
K 4 0f2s1g
K 5 1f2s2g
K 6 2f0s2g
K 7 1f2s0g
K 8 2f0s0g
K 9 1f2s0g
K10 2f0s2g
K11 2f2s0g

L 3 0f2s2g
L 4 1f2s2g
L 5 2f2s2g GORINA (5)
L 6 2f2s2g
L 7 1f2s0g
L 8 1f2s0g
L 9 2f0s2g
L10 2f0s0g

M 1 1f2s0g
M 2 0f2s0g
M 3 1f2s2g
M 4 2f2s2g
M 5 2f2s2g
M 6 2f0s2g
M 7 1f2s0g
M 8 1f2s0g
M 9 2f0s2g
M10 1f2s0g

N 1 2f2s2g XAK TSAROTH (1)
N 2 1f2s0g
N 3 1f2s0g
N 4 1f2s0g
N 5 1f2s0g
N 6 1f2s2g
N 7 1f2s0g
N 8 1f2s0g
N 9 2f2s2g PENGUINADUA (2)
N10 2f0s0g

Resources: 80f 88s 62g
Tilecount: 58
Popcount: 11

Gold Calculation:
62+58*3+11=247


TOTAL LAND INCOME without GA:
80f 88s 247g

TOTAL LAND INCOME with GA (*1.5):
120f 132s 370g

Please verify the figures.

Verified :)

The Jade Province wishes to register there income from ther land ownings.

41f, 53s, 179c

Verified

As I am now Land Manager, I will ahve CG as my deputy, because he was a Cartogropher. I won't open a new thread until Term 3.

Civ: As CG is assitant I guess maby I could be chartographer? :)

To proove my abilitys as a chartographer I have made a map of the fanatican lands. I think this may come in handy for evrybody...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/DG3_170AD_FanaticaMap.jpg

I will also make a map of the whole continent..

btw: CG: as you were the old chatographer, do you have a good screenshot program? I have one but its not the best and its trialed... do you know of a free one or could u perhaps send me one that u have...

SJ: Sure you can be Cartogropher. For the next map you need to find out all of the Territories owned by each player.

Civ: No problem. And I found out that I forgot to use grids wich I will applie on the next map. The three next maps im making are:

The whole world. (no borders)
The Whole world. (borders)
Fanatica. (borders)

Sounds good. Make sure you find every single parcel of land that everyone owns. ok?

Sure.. NP..

But Civvy.. When U get are online pleace go on the chat channels as well... :)

please verify mu land income: 32\32\11.

See here for province map: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=56498


Im just now starting on a continent map..

I would like to update my Land Clames. After Conquring the Rebels A New City has been added, as indicated. The Despot also has set asside land for the Jade provance, indicated in the Dashed Purple Line.

@Civanator - I would like to Update the values of the land.

Note - I have attached the map. I will add the map with the [img] tags when things have been finalized.

SJ: Verified.

Here is the Calculations. 37f/45s/153g.

Verified

Note, I have made another update. Calculations for Ingolenondor would be needed.

Edit here is the updated Income:

42f/54s/191g.

CG: U have claimed some of my land. See in the zarahemla province thread and compare my land with ur claims. U have among other tiles taken the gold tile and the tiles nect to it wich u see on the map of zarahemla belongs to me. Other then that I cant see anything wrong now..

CG: Income verified

SJ: You and CG talk it out, but as he is the despot he can do what he pleases ;)

Well, me and CG talked aboy good and bad despots and what happened to "bad" despots...

Remember that CG? ;)

CG, need you to verify me income at 18f/17s/60g

Everything Checks out, Approved

INCOME CALCULATION FOR HELENATICA, 170AD


(C 5 2f0s0g)
(C 6 0f1s0g)

(D 5 0f1s0g)
(D 6 0f1s0g)
D 7 0f1s0g
D 8 1f0s2g
D 9 1f0s2g

(E 5 0f1s0g)
(E 6 0f1s0g)
E 7 1f1s0g
E 8 2f1s1g NAFSTAC (2)
E 9 1f0s2g

(F 5 0f1s0g)
(F 6 0f1s0g)
F 7 2f1s1g
F 8 2f0s0g
F 9 1f2s0g

G 5 0f1s2g
G 6 1f2s5g
G 7 2f1s0g
(G 8 1f1s0g)
(G 9 1f1s0g)
(G10 1f1s0g)
(G11 2f1s0g)

H 5 0f1s1g
H 6 2f1s2g Tyvek (2)
H 7 2f2s1g
(H 8 1f1s1g)
(H 9 1f1s0g)
(H10 2f0s0g)
(H11 2f0s0g)

I 5 0f1s1g
I 6 1f1s1g
I 7 2f1s0g
I 8 1f1s0g
I 9 2f0s1g
I10 2f0s1g
I11 2f0s0g

J 1 1f1s1g
J 2 1f1s0g
(J 3 1f1s0g)
J 4 2f1s1g
J 5 1f1s1g
J 6 2f0s1g
J 7 2f0s0g
J 8 2f0s0g
J 9 1f2s0g
J10 2f1s1g NUR GISNOD (2)
J11 2f1s0g

(K 1 1f1s1g)
(K 2 1f1s1g)
K 3 1f2s1g
K 4 0f1s1g
K 5 1f1s2g
K 6 2f0s1g
K 7 1f1s0g
K 8 2f0s0g
K 9 1f2s0g
K10 2f0s1g
K11 2f1s0g

(L 1 1f2s2g)
(L 2 1f2s1g)
L 3 0f1s1g
L 4 1f1s1g
L 5 2f1s2g GORINA (5)
L 6 2f1s2g
L 7 1f1s0g
L 8 1f2s0g
L 9 2f0s1g
L10 2f0s0g
(L11 2f0s0g)
(L12 1f1s0g)

M 1 1f2s0g
M 2 0f1s0g
M 3 1f2s2g
M 4 2f1s2g
M 5 2f2s2g
M 6 2f1s2g
M 7 1f1s0g
M 8 1f1s0g
M 9 2f1s1g
M10 1f1s0g
(M11 1f1s0g)
(M12 2f1s0g)

N 1 2f1s1g XAK TSAROTH (3)
N 2 1f1s0g
N 3 2f1s0g
N 4 1f1s0g
N 5 1f1s0g
N 6 1f1s1g
N 7 1f1s0g
N 8 1f1s0g
N 9 2f1s1g PENGUINADUA (2)
N10 2f0s0g
(N11 2f0s0g)

Tiles in () are claimed lands but not yet available in the dg. As such those tiles are not calculated into the numbers below!

Resources: 94f 63s 53g
Tilecount: 69
Popcount: 16

Gold Calculation:
53+69*3+16=276


TOTAL LAND INCOME without GA:
94f 63s 276g


Please verify the figures. Urgently.

Verified :)

SaaMs Land Earnings
Now remember- this is a Helenatican Province
2 2 1
1 1
1 1 1
1 1
1 1
1 1
1 1
1 1
2 1 1 City
1 1
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2
2 1 1 City
1 2
1 1 1
1 1
25 32 23

So my income is 25g, 32s and 23g.

Please Verufy. I gave up my stamp when I siezed control of head.

Verified :)

Edit- Actually, which income is it? you have g/s/g, not f/s/g...

I will start a new Land Management thread now, for less confusion, as I can edit the first post then.

Thank you.