Welcome to the Presidential Office for the first term of Demogame 3.

President: Shaitan
Vice President: Chieftess

Chat Schedule
Date Day EST GMT DP Notes
Chat 0 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52134) May 2 Fri 7PM 23:00 Shaitan Game Started
Chat 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52361) May 4 Sun 8AM 12:00 Shaitan Capital Founded
Chat 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52458) May 7 Wed 7PM 23:00 Shaitan Many barbarians in goody huts
Chat 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52797) May 10 Sat 8AM 12:00 Shaitan Gorina founded, Noshuret sacked
Chat 4 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52986) May 13 Tue 7PM 23:00 Chieftess Met Americans
Chat 5 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53296) May 16 Fri 4AM 08:00 Shaitan Founded Penguinadua & Nar Shaddaa, Discovered bounty of iron
Chat 6 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53540) May 19 Mon 7PM 23:00 Chieftess Met Greeks
Chat 7 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53787) May 22 Thu 4AM 08:00 Shaitan Met Aztecs
Chat 8 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53965) May 25 Sun 2PM 18:00 Chieftess Inadotta founded
Chat 9 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54293) May 28 Wed 7PM 23:00 Chieftess Regia Doughnutia, Funkytowne, Nur Gisnod founded
Chat 10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54646) May 31 Sat 12PM 16:00 Chieftess War with Egypt!
Note that if your location uses Daylight Savings Time the offset shown on the forums (example: GMT -5) is most likely incorrect for you. GMT does not adjust for Daylight Savings.


General Chat Intentions

We will be trying for around 10 turns per chat. Some chats may be shorter if big important things pop up. Some chats may be longer if nothing is happening except exposing territory and pressing the end of turn button.

It is my intention to have all critical items discussed and decided on the forums and not in the chat room.

Turn 0 instructions (especially simple unit movement, population assignments, and build queues) will generally be completed just before the chat turn begins. If an action is deemed necessary for future considerations (example: trading for a tech that will expose other trades) this office is not opposed to performing that action and posting a new save so long as that action clearly has the support of the people.

My first order of business is to welcome Chieftess to the Vice Presidential position. Our contest has produced the highest voter participation of any election through all 3 demogames. The final tally put her a mere couple of votes behind me. Quite a contest!

Here's to a full term of such great participation and excitement! :beer:

Our first chat will be very short. It will be the creation of our game world and movement of our worker and scout (if applicable). We will return to the forums to discuss city placement and what to call our new nation. We are using these options for our game:
World Size Large
Barbarians Random
Land Mass Continents
Water Coverage 60%
Climate Random
Temperature Random
Age Random

Civilization Random
Rivals Default
Rules Default
Difficulty Monarch

Mod: Increase aircraft bombardment strength 10%
Bomber: 8 --> 9
Stealth Bomber: 8 --> 9
Cruise Missle: 16 --> 18

Congrats on becoming president, Shatian:)

Out of curiousity, how soon is 'soon' when it comes to the creation chat?

I was wondering that too. Congratulations on your presidency... /me just found out what 'Shaitan' means... :eek:

Hehehe...did you just learn Farsi, Plexus? :)

no, but I was reading a book on Islam and it freaked me out...

Salutations and congrats toboth Shaitan and Chieftess on a great race.

Although I am a CT supporter, I congratulate you on a hard earned victory. Also, can someone tell me, what does Shaitan mean?

It means Satan in Farsi.

Ever read any of the Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan?

1) Shaitan also means "alone" or "regal". Farsi's not the only language out there, ya know. ;)

2) Tentative chat schedule is posted in the first post. Note that it's tentative and will change depending on the game's (and my) needs if things come up. It is set up for a game every third day.

3) The water coverage poll is complete so we are now ready to start the game up. The 3 aircraft are modified in a scenario that's ready to go.

does the game start on chat 0??
@Shaitan: Because of youre large involvment in civfanatics youll probably inherit the page from tf when he retires :D

Originally posted by Shaitan
1) Shaitan also means "alone" or "regal". Farsi's not the only language out there, ya know. ;)

2) Tentative chat schedule is posted in the first post. Note that it's tentative and will change depending on the game's (and my) needs if things come up. It is set up for a game every third day.

3) The water coverage poll is complete so we are now ready to start the game up. The 3 aircraft are modified in a scenario that's ready to go.

Sometimes we wonder... like when there's 0'Dark-30 turn chats. ;)

Shaitan, are those 4AM turnchats that I see?

Originally posted by Sir John
does the game start on chat 0??
@Shaitan: Because of youre large involvment in civfanatics youll probably inherit the page from tf when he retires :D
Yes, the game starts during chat 0. I've added a notes column to the chat schedule.

TF is retiring? (This is how nasty rumors get started. :evil: ) I have to doubt that I'd inherit the site but thanks for the vote of confidence. :lol:

Originally posted by bootstoots
Shaitan, are those 4AM turnchats that I see?
Yup. There are 2 of them tentatively scheduled.

I like that you have a large scale of differnt times on the chats so that europeans can join in as well :D

Kudos on the scheduling, Shaitan :flamedevi :satan: . (And I agree, the Evil One goes by many different names :D ) I'm not going to complain about the 4am chats, as sometimes I'm up and about at that time. I'm also glad that you're running the last chat on the last day of the month. I'm tired of seeing new Presidents having to rush in with a new schedule and immediate chat before they can get their office set up. :goodjob: Good luck (Not that you'll need it).

That's the objective Sir John. :)

Originally posted by Cyc
:goodjob: Good luck (Not that you'll need it).
I appreciate it whether it's needed or not. :D

And while I'm at it, thank you very much to everybody who supported me in the elections. That was an absolutely amazing response and I am truly thankful and flattered. I will do my best to fulfill and exceed your expectations of me in this office.

And quite a race too, down to the wire! First you were trailing, then you took the lead, and we nearly tied a few times.

EDIT: BTW, It's EDT, not EST. ;) Must be the non-linear time thing again... http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CT_scared2.gif

Just a quick post to say congrats to you both on your election.

Actually some of those 8AM chats would be pretty early for some of us, especially those on the Pacific Coast who would have to be up at 5AM to attend.

@Shaitan: I would be very glad if you could make at least one chat that was about 18-19:00 GMT.... That would make even more wuropeans show up as many europans go to bed at 23:00 GMT. :D

If CT can run the Sunday, May 25 chat at 18:00 (2:00 PM EST) then I'll reschedule it and put her in as DP.

@CT, please confirm if you are available for this slot.

Did you just switch two turnchats around, or are we having 3 4AM turnchats in a row? I don't mind having a couple of them, but I would like one soon that I will be able to attend.

@bootstoots - No, there are no consecutive 4 AM chats. The last chat thread was titled incorrectly.

Originally posted by Shaitan
If CT can run the Sunday, May 25 chat at 18:00 (2:00 PM EST) then I'll reschedule it and put her in as DP.

@CT, please confirm if you are available for this slot.

I think I am. Unless my parents have any unannounced plans.

BTW, this week, my dad's favorite stock market site is having "free week", so that means I'll be competing for the computer again. -_-

The Sunday, May 25 chat has been rescheduled to 18:00 GMT (2:00 PM EST) to give a better opportunity for European participation per Sir John's request.

The lack of instructions in the last chat thread is not acceptable. Only two departments left instructions and neither one of them were useful. I can play the game just fine by myself but that is not why we are doing this. It is the responsibility of each Leader to discuss the possibilities and ramifications of the game, as related to their area of influence, with the citizens in general to determine the overall will of the people and then relate those instructions to the Designated Player of the game. Without that minimum level of support from the Leaders this will not be a game of Democracy but one of Despotism or maybe Best-Guessism.

As a citizen I can say there hasn't been much discussion or polls. It seems no one wants to know what the citizens want. There also does not seem to be much information readily avaiable in the forums. It seems one must download the save and attend the turn chats in order to know what's going on. Having done neither in this demogame I find it difficult to participate. I think this game was originally envisioned as a forum based game and as time goes by we get further and further away from that. I've always envisioned our leader's roles to include getting pertinent information to the people. Are our leaders assuming we're all looking at every save and reading every chat log? Are they content with an ignorant electorate so as to be able to make all the decisions themselves?

That is what I am seeing also. I give a brief rundown of the major events of each chat in my end post of the chat threads but each individual Leader needs to take their section of the game to the people. What is happening, will happen, etc, for their aspect of our community. That is not happening except for rare occurences.

I call on all leaders to turn this around. There is a third of a term left, use it to show what your capabilities are.

Shaitan,

You may want to address this in the Citizens Forum as well, as I wouldn't bank on everyone in question finding your concerns at this locale. Your call though, as this problem may best be handled within the walls of the Palace.

I can understand donsig's frustration, as I am experiencing it from another angle. The lack of participation has been disheartening for me, and is starting to let the wind out of my sails. Unlike donsig, I have had the time to look at the saves and offer suggestions but even then it is difficult to get feedback on an idea, from leaders and citizens alike.

One thing I would like to note on your part, Mr. President. I believe that today's chat was originally scheduled for Friday AM, was it not? If this was the case, I can see some of the leaders dropping the ball. Once again, a bulletin in the Citizens Forum would be the best way to ensure that our leaders and citizens are aware of the time change.

Or better yet, maybe all important announcements pertaining to the DemoGame should be made in the RPG Forum. :D Didn't want to cast blame there, but the postcount numbers are starting to speak for themselves.

Remember when we used to have a summary in the turnchat thread?

I think there's another thing happening:

Veteran Fatiague.

The vets of the game have played 2 games already, and the process is becoming tedious. Not to mention that we've debated the same thing over and over again (twice, and now a third time). We're starting to know how each other thinks, and assuming what everyone wants. The novelty has completely worn off, and I think we're just "going through the motions".

Next term, ALL of the vets should take a term (or two) off, and let the newer players have a shot at it.

Quoting CT:
Next term, ALL of the vets should take a term (or two) off, and let the newer players have a shot at it.
_________________________________

Hmmm. Now there's a unique idea... :)

But as Shaitan and the others have said, a better example of how to run one's office should be set now, for others to follow. We don't want the next regime of Government Leaders just showing up to collect their paychecks. ;)

Okay, I might get blasted for this, but here goes. I not writing this to blast anyone, but, I have noticed something. At the beginning of the game most of the posts had an aim at trying to get newbie participation. Now near the end of the first session, its mostly the veterans doing the talking. If you look at the 2nd term nominations, its a frenzy of veterans(in most cases) nominating each other. Now I understand its all in fun, but as a newbie I'm put off after seeing all this going on. Lately I haven't been as active as I want to be due to work, but Itry to keep up with whats happening. What I see is less participation by newer members who might feel it wouldn't be worth trying to nominate themselves with all that activity. Again if I offended anyone I apologise.

the New people are more then welcome to nominate themselves. Its just that if they dont do anything, we dont know them. They first need to be recognised, THEN they can be nomed.

Stuck, thats a good point. But isn't that what the whole election process is all about. For the nominees to put forth their ideas and qualifications for the rest of the citizens to judge who would serve best?

:)

Not really... People just nom who they feel would do the best. Or whoever they want. Normally the second

@ Cpt Kaos - The vets of the Demogame ALWAYS talk about how they want newbies to develop in the NEXT game, while they ball-hog the positions for the current game.

I would be proud to sponsor any motivated newer player for any position that they wish to run for. PM me or post here.

I would like to file a complaint regarding the change of Noshuret's build queue from a temple to a settler. Normally, I would not object to such a change, but considering this one wasted a large number of shields, and that the change was made 1 turn before the temple was completed, I feel that a spot vote (which I am assuming was the method used to change the queue) should not have been used. Additionally, I was at the chat for awhile from the beginning, and asked if there were any requests or questions regarding queues. One person voiced the desire to immediately change this queue, and since it was not seconded, I did not see any reason to change it. I do not believe there was more than one person that stated on the forums that we should waste these shields either.

Since no rules were actually broken, this is not a formal complaint. However, I do wish to reiterate that decisions like this should be made on the forums rather than during the chat, since only a small number of citizens can attend any given chat.

Originally posted by Cpt Kaos
Okay, I might get blasted for this, but here goes. I not writing this to blast anyone, but, I have noticed something. At the beginning of the game most of the posts had an aim at trying to get newbie participation. Now near the end of the first session, its mostly the veterans doing the talking. If you look at the 2nd term nominations, its a frenzy of veterans(in most cases) nominating each other. Now I understand its all in fun, but as a newbie I'm put off after seeing all this going on. Lately I haven't been as active as I want to be due to work, but Itry to keep up with whats happening. What I see is less participation by newer members who might feel it wouldn't be worth trying to nominate themselves with all that activity. Again if I offended anyone I apologise.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this subject, but since it has more of a social cause than a rules-based cause, there is unfortunately little that can be done about it.

Originally posted by eyrei
I would like to file a complaint regarding the change of Noshuret's build queue from a temple to a settler. Normally, I would not object to such a change, but considering this one wasted a large number of shields, and that the change was made 1 turn before the temple was completed, I feel that a spot vote (which I am assuming was the method used to change the queue) should not have been used. Additionally, I was at the chat for awhile from the beginning, and asked if there were any requests or questions regarding queues. One person voiced the desire to immediately change this queue, and since it was not seconded, I did not see any reason to change it. I do not believe there was more than one person that stated on the forums that we should waste these shields either.

Since no rules were actually broken, this is not a formal complaint. However, I do wish to reiterate that decisions like this should be made on the forums rather than during the chat, since only a small number of citizens can attend any given chat.

Even though there was only one request, many of the citizens and council voiced their support during the chat. This is the age-old problem that we know all too well. ;) (you and donsig... something never change) To all the newbies, look at the start of Demogame 1 for a similar contested debate on spot votes in the chat.

I do wish that more citizens do voice their opinions in the forum. My domestic threads sometimes get very little posts, and I have very little to go on.

Unless there is an unforseen change of circumstances there should be no need to make any decisions in the chat. If there was a desire for a settler from Noshuret instead of the temple that should have been addressed in the forums.

@CT - As a general rule, no changes to any posted leader instructions should be made unless something happens during the chat to precipitate it.

Quoting Chieftess:
... something never change
_________________________

You got that right. 3 PI convictions and you're still walking all over the Governors! :lol: