What do we think about this new resource: a special kind of wood. Naval units (Caravel, Galleon, Privateer and Frigate) need that resource for building.

If Im not mistaken the ships used by western powers between 1400-1800 were made of a special kind of wood from Scandinavia.

Ancient Egypt didn't had good wood so they couldn't build the right ships (only those papyrus ships) so they wend to Libanon (forgotten the ancient name) to get proper wood.

meet the search button.
such things were discussed many times.

Did they also create a piccie?

Originally posted by embryodead
meet the search button.
such things were discussed many times.

. . . erm . . .


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Sorry. The search function has been disabled by the administrator.

They should stop toggling the search function on and off. :mad:
Yes, they even made a couple of piccies. I've seen both brown logs (from ToT) and some birch logs. Check the graphics forum.
And Ultraworld, your not the only smart person in the forums. People has discussed lots of things here in the past 2 years. (or 1½ at least)
You can also make timber a prereq for catapults if you want.

your not the only smart person in the forums

I didn't had any intention to come over as smart. What made you think that "I wanted to show how smart I am".

Originally posted by Ultraworld


I didn't had any intention to come over as smart.

You wanted to come over as dumb? :eek: Of course you wanted to come over as smart, everyone in their right mind does.

What made you think that "I wanted to show how smart I am".

I didn't. There's a difference between being smart and being a smart arse. I didn't say you where that.

Of course you wanted to come over as smart
Of course not. I dont want to come oper as . . . . (wathever you think). I just want to improve Civ3 and help the community.

I know for a fact HMS Victory was made with wood from Russia and it took the wood of a whole forest to make it. oops i think it was HMS Victory anyways in Napoleon war era Britain relied on Russia for wood which is why Russia could not last a trade embargo with Britain.

Ultraworld, it seems that my knowledge of english idioms is slightly lacking. When I write smart I don't mean too smart or cheeky or something, just the opposite to dumb. If I say like this then; you're not the first one that wants to help the community.

BTW, that very special wood they built ships from was usually oak. If I also wanted an icon for tropical hardwood, like mahogany, teak and ebony, which has been heavily imported by colonial powers, how would I distuingish the two?

Originally posted by ivory
BTW, that very special wood they built ships from was usually oak. If I also wanted an icon for tropical hardwood, like mahogany, teak and ebony, which has been heavily imported by colonial powers, how would I distuingish the two?

They would be represented by the same resource of course. Keep in mind that civ is a simplified model of our world. Don't gonna make it too complicated.
The wood is now available on jungle and forests.

Just be careful not to add too many resources. The map generator only populates about 4% of the total available terrain with resources and the more types of resources you have the fewer of each type will show up on the map.


edit: Ultraworld, I know it seems like I am just going around raining on all your ideas. I don't mean to come across that way, its just that I have spent a lot of time modding the game and in doing so I have discovered many of the limitations of both the game and the editor. But I wouldn't have run into the same deadends if I hadn't already gone down the same roads as you are now. I am just trying give you the benefit of my experience so you don't have to waste your time going over the same battles with the game that others have already fought.

Don't get discouraged. Keep on thinking of ways to improve the game, there is often a way to work around the editor, and who knows, with Conquest coming out in the Fall they promise us even more features for the editor. :)

The map generator only populates about 4%

Let me guess: Also hardcoded :(

Wait a minute: 4% ? ? ? ? There is an appearance ratio for resources. So what is the 4% doing in the game? I would guess that if I set the appearance ratios very low the world becomes covered with resources.

I don't mean to come across that way,


:) You dont come across that way.
Really apreciate your advice and replies.

with Conquest coming out in the Fall they promise us even more features for the editor.

Those thinngs should have been in the editor from the start.

In my Pacific Islands mod, I just used the generic resource lumber as a required resource for early ships. It really does make the naval part of the game more interesting.

Originally posted by Ultraworld
Wait a minute: 4% ? ? ? ? There is an appearance ratio for resources. So what is the 4% doing in the game? I would guess that if I set the appearance ratios very low the world becomes covered with resources.

The appearance ratios are in relation to the number of civs present and are only for Strategic and Luxury resources. The way the map generator places the resources is like this:

First, it places all strategic resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if horses are first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map. The generator looks to the appearance ratio to determine how many horses should be placed on the map.

Second, it places all luxury resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if furs are first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map. The generator looks to the appearance ratio to determine how many horses should be placed on the map.

Third, it places all luxury resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if wheat is first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map.

Example: Say I add 3 new resources 1 Luxury Wool, 1 Strategic Timber, and 1 Bonus Pigs in that order in the editor. The Generator will place the Timber before it places any of the original Luxury or Bonus resources and will place Wool after the original Luxury resources and will place the Wool before it places any of the original Bonus resources. It will only place the Pigs, which is in the last position in the editor, after all other resources are placed and only if there are "open" appropriate terrain tiles.

It will only fill about 4% of any map with resources of any type.

Note: the help file is inaccurate in how it describes the Appearance ratio. A more accurate description of the Appearance Ratio would be that it is a Percentage based on the Number of Civs, e.g. if there are 20 civs and the Appearance number is set to 10, i.e. 100%, then the generator will attempt to place 20 of that specific resource on the map. If the appearance number is set to 16, i.e. 160%, then the generator will attempt to place 32 of that specific resource. I say attempt because if there is not "enough" of the proper terrain type available, then there will be fewer than the goal amount.

Those thinngs should have been in the editor from the start.
I am not going to argue with that! :)

Originally posted by ivory
BTW, that very special wood they built ships from was usually oak. ...
This was one of the reasons that Schleswig Holstein was such an important ally for Sweden, they had very good oak forests which was used to build Swedens war fleet. Another reason was of course that it's situated in the then archfiend Denmark's back.:satan:
This ended after the great northern war, which led the Swedish navy to look for oak elsewhere. The admirals and whatnot realised that Sweden didn't have enough oak which was fit for ship building. It would only suffice for a hundred years or so. So what to do? There already was severe punishments for cutting down an oak. So they took an island in lake Mälaren and planted hundreds of oaks there. And with the advent of ironclad battle ships they forgot it.
A few years ago the Swedish navy got a letter: "Hey, your oaks are ready now! You wanna come over to build your Ship of the Lines?"

Funny and interesting, mrtn, but what sort of punishment? I thought environmental concerns are something relatively recent.

Originally posted by Kal-el
First, it places all strategic resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if horses are first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map. The generator looks to the appearance ratio to determine how many horses should be placed on the map.

Second, it places all luxury resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if furs are first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map. The generator looks to the appearance ratio to determine how many horses should be placed on the map.

Third, it places all luxury resources based on the order they appear in the editor, i.e. if wheat is first in the editor they are the first to be placed on the map.

Example: Say I add 3 new resources 1 Luxury Wool, 1 Strategic Timber, and 1 Bonus Pigs in that order in the editor. The Generator will place the Timber before it places any of the original Luxury or Bonus resources and will place Wool after the original Luxury resources and will place the Wool before it places any of the original Bonus resources. It will only place the Pigs, which is in the last position in the editor, after all other resources are placed and only if there are "open" appropriate terrain tiles.

It will only fill about 4% of any map with resources of any type.

Note: the help file is inaccurate in how it describes the Appearance ratio. A more accurate description of the Appearance Ratio would be that it is a Percentage based on the Number of Civs, e.g. if there are 20 civs and the Appearance number is set to 10, i.e. 100%, then the generator will attempt to place 20 of that specific resource on the map. If the appearance number is set to 16, i.e. 160%, then the generator will attempt to place 32 of that specific resource. I say attempt because if there is not "enough" of the proper terrain type available, then there will be fewer than the goal amount.

Very enlightening, Kal-el. This explains why Timber, which is supposed to be a very common resource in my mod, is never found very often when I test Civ3K. I'll have to go back in, delete all resources, and add them in order of importance.

Perhaps with Conquest there will be an increased resource capacity; it looks like they're adding several new resources. We'll see, I guess.

the problem with reordering the resources is that you will make it much more difficult to convert already available maps to your mod.

Originally posted by ivory
Funny and interesting, mrtn, but what sort of punishment? I thought environmental concerns are something relatively recent.
Environment? :lol:
It was a strategic resource, that's all. I've had problems finding what kinds of punishments there was, but one site mentions that the third time someone hurt an oak tree he got the death penalty.

Instead of special wood to build advanced ships, why not have Tar as a resource?

You need tar to keep the ships in use, and it was very importand trade item in the 1600-1900. The naval powers of that era, especially Netherlands and England, bought almost all the tar that Finland could produce.

So Tar, I say! :)

In the MEM I have added both Timber and Tar. It works pretty well.

Originally posted by ivory
BTW, that very special wood they built ships from was usually oak. If I also wanted an icon for tropical hardwood, like mahogany, teak and ebony, which has been heavily imported by colonial powers, how would I distuingish the two?

Have one as a strategic resource and one as a Luxury, with diferent graphics. There's a few icons around for different types of wood.

Originally posted by Ultraworld
[B]

Let me guess: Also hardcoded :(

Wait a minute: 4% ? ? ? ? There is an appearance ratio for resources. So what is the 4% doing in the game? I would guess that if I set the appearance ratios very low the world becomes covered with resources.

There's a limit for total number of resources on the map. So if you have tons of strategic and luxury resources, you'll no longer find any bonus resources, or very few.

There's a limit for total number of resources on the map. So if you have tons of strategic and luxury resources, you'll no longer find any bonus resources, or very few.

Could make the game very interesting



btw: Were can I find a "resources.pcx" with on place #22 the timbre icon. (I only want a pcx file. I'll tweak the mod myself)

Search function still doesnt work, do I have a quota. What is going on?

I think they disable the search function when the server is busy.
I could give you my resources.pcx, which has timber on #42, is the number really important? It shouldn't be.

the order actually is important. the program looks to the order in the editor when determining which icon to use for colonies.

Originally posted by Kal-el
the order actually is important. the program looks to the order in the editor when determining which icon to use for colonies.
Isn't that the order in which the resources is added in the editor? The order in which the graphics in the pcx is used shouldn't matter.

Hmm.. A while back I added both timber (for war-engines, ships, & longbows) and Building Stone (for temples, many wonders & harbours & city walls).

The problem was that if a civ started on a small island with no trees it could not build ships, and with out stone they could not build any cultural improvements. While this is very realistic, its not very fun, especialy for the poor island dwellers. :D

So always remember to provide an auxillery unit for non resource equiped civs, such as the papyrus boat, or canoe. & I wouldn't recomend making either the temple or harbour reliant on resources, unless you want to cripple the AIs ability to expand overseas.

IIRC the pcx and the edior ned to be in the same order for the colonies to show properly.

Originally posted by Kal-el
the order actually is important. the program looks to the order in the editor when determining which icon to use for colonies.

I dont understand what you mean. Did you mean resources instead of colonies?

While this is very realistic

:D That is what Im after

Originally posted by mrtn

I could give you my resources.pcx, which has timber on #42,

depends on the outcome of this little discussion.

when you build a colony there is a resource icon that appears next to the name of the colony "Roman Iron Colony"

if the pcx and the bix are not in the same order then the icon will not match up with the actual colony type.

its not important for bonus resources to be the proper order, but if you want the colony image to appear correclty then you should keep your lux and strat resources in line. If you don't care about hat little minor graphics issue then it doesn't really matter what order your pcx file is in.

I tried, and it seems you are correct. :(
A related question: How does the luxuryicons_small.pcx work?

Yes, I'd like to know that too. I can't get new resources to show in city screen.

This is only slightly related...but since i have aquired quite a few modern age units I was wondering what other strategic resources everyone else was adding to make the game more challenging. I have been trying to think of ideas for more modern or possibly futuristic resources that I could use for requirements?

Originally posted by mrtn
A related question: How does the luxuryicons_small.pcx work?
Take a look at this.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/luxuryicons_small1.gif

From this image you can see that I added 8 new Luxury Resources to the DyP mod, cotton, coffee, olive oil, sugar, tea, tobacco, tropical fruit, and wool. The key is in placement in the luxuryicons_small file which you can find in the ...\Civilization III\Art\City Screen folder.

Since I added the luxury resources immediately after the last resource in the standard bic, my 8 new luxury resources take up slots 23-30 in the luxuryicons_small image.* You can also see from the image that the I left the bottom row empty. After several games have been played with the Mod I have yet to hear anyone indicate that the letters i through P are showing up anywhere. This leads me to the conclusion that the images in the bottom row are not actually necessary.

*note: the original luxuryicons_small image does not have the extra boxes so I recommend copying this one.

Thank you, Kal-el, you're my flamethrower in the darkness. :D
What happened with the letters E and F, don't you like them?
This pic shows I've been a good boy and/or playtester.

Originally posted by mrtn
Thank you, Kal-el, you're my flamethrower in the darkness. :D
What happened with the letters E and F, don't you like them?
...

your welcome and I don't know what happened to E and F. :) I never even noticed they were gone. :crazyeye:

yes, thanks - that info was mighty useful. Started to feel somewhat stupid (happens often) because of 'em resources.

one of the great things about these forums is that if you ask a question somebody usually is able to answer it for you.

Originally posted by Kal-el
one of the great things about these forums is that if you ask a question somebody usually is able to answer it for you.
What's my favourite colour, and why do I keep on posting while drunk? :D
And should I write "keep posting", or "keep on posting"?
Another good thing is that we non-english-speakers keep (on) improving our English. For example I've learned, after two months :crazyeye: that resource is spelled with only one c.

Originally posted by mrtn

What's my favourite colour? Yellow, no Blue
and why do I keep on posting while drunk? :DCan't help you there. :)
And should I write "keep posting", or "keep on posting"?[/B]Either one will work, as neither is grammatically inorrect as far as I know. :D
Another good thing is that we non-english-speakers keep (on) improving our English. For example I've learned, after two months :crazyeye: that resource is spelled with only one c. [/B]:D I am amazed at how well people speak english, the sad thing is that in many European countries the English literacy rate is higher than it is in the US. :rolleyes:

Kal-el,
since we are on the topic... I wondered why your luxuryicons_small.pcx looks that way. I never thought about enlarging it, I just placed new luxuries in the second row, overwriting it (also I moved the whole set, because I added pipeweed before other res.). Actually, it works. The question is, can I expect something unsual later in game etc.? (I just checked if it looks ok in city screen).

since we are on the topic... I wondered why your luxuryicons_small.pcx looks that way. I never thought about enlarging it, I just placed new luxuries in the second row, overwriting it
What he said! Can I just put my new luxuries on the second row like embryodead suggested, and also, what to the numbers at the bottom and to the right outside of the grid mean? Do I have to preform some calculation or something, or can I just leave them the way they are?

AFAIK, old-growth pine trees were critical for the age of sailing ships, as these were what masts were made of -- and, after sufficient deforestation, made Scandinavia such an important source of timber for the British.

... Now, insofar as East Asian ships are concerned (specifically, every species of "junk") I believe that bamboo would be the correct resource. Bear with me here -- it's not that the ships themselves were entirely made of bamboo, but it has been well-argued that the seaworthiness of these craft was based upon having their hulls segmented into several water-tight compartments -- and that this was based upon the observation of the bamboo plant.

BTW, due to this hull-compartmentalization, I'm inclined to give such ships a slightly higher hit-point number than their European counterparts.

Fondly Reminiscing Over Cheech&Chong's "Big Bamboo" (sorry, you almost certainly have to be over 40 and a Yank to catch that reference ...)

-Oz