In the SG forum, there's a Roman Succession Game just starting here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53435). Notice how they went for Writing first. That's because the AI is already researching (or has) Bronze Working, and which is why we're behind in techs (again). We're acting as the AI would do. The only difference between us and that SG, is that we're starting Writing 1000 years later. We need to decide if we really want a peaceful victory, or be warmongers again.

So, where are we going? And how do we want to get there?

Our definate priority should be The Great Library. This will ease our research. After writing, we should head for a government tech (probably monarchy first, as even the AI goes for mono before republic sometimes). We still need to expand too, and we need to figure out how to do it.

Even peacemongers should fight one war early on if only to be able to build an army with which to win a victory. To be really powerful though, we need enough space to have a decently placed capital and forbidden palace complete with full production rings. That may require wars well into the middle ages. Deciding we do not want a domination or conquest victory does not mean we have to adhere to the ideal of peace throughout the game. I've had spaceship victories where I've had to take AI capitals to prevent them from launching first. Some of these *peaceful* victories even had nukes flying about! I'd rather not get into a war versus peace mindset. Let's do what we have to do when we have to do it, be it make war or make peace.

We didn't get off to a bang up start. The location we began in has its difficulties. I don't attribute our current position to the fact that we didn't go for writing early on. We could have had twice as many cities right now if we had built a granary in Nosh a long time ago. Having pottery fall into our lap was great fortune but we squandered it.

So what do we do now? We have to continue expanding (so we need settlers). What about iron? We have iron working but I haven't seen any posts about whether iron is close by. I think we have to get a force of legions ready and start conquering those barbarians. (And if they're not Roman they are barbarian, by definition!) Whether we build our legions from scratch or go the warrior upgrade path must still be decided. We can't do the latter without gold. I'd not worry about being behind in tech right now. Set research to minimum, stock pile gold, build warriors to be upgraded. Decide what land we want and take it. Do some exploring and tech trading along the way and use our legions to extort some techs at the peace table. Once our land base is secure and we have a decent site for our Forbidden Palace then we can settle down and pursue peaceful building.

Why dont we do this.
-Lets go for Monarchy.
-Pre-Build GL (though I did debate against this).
-Trade Polythiesm for Writing or some after writing.
-Get Monarchy.
-Revolt.
-Start war and get a good Golden Age.
-No one would have researched Lit. (since the AI dont perferably go for that), so research it.
-Change from the Pre-Build.
-Get the GL, and our tech worries will be gone.
-And start expanding peacfully in the Medivel ages to the Industrial Age.

I with you until the seeming late start of war and start expanding peacefully.....

We cannot afford to head to Monarchy, Armisarian. We should be a republic, but thats a topic for a different thread. We NEED to go to writing, then lit, followed by map making (of course, getting Masonry before Lit is done). Please, for the sake of the empire, we need the GL and some wars which will lead to Peace (mabey take out Abe and Cleo?)

Pre-building a Wonder now would be a useless attempt at advancing us in the game. We have one of the most formidable war-mongering UU's in the Ancient Age, let's use it. We don't have enough cities to compete with the AI, and it's going to be a while before we produce more cities. Face it, we're behind in the tech race and tieing up one of our most productive cities with a Palace pre-build is just going to hurt us in the big picture. We have Legions and Temples to build, cities to create, lands to conquer, and resources to procure. Let's skip the pre-builds for now.

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
We cannot afford to head to Monarchy, Armisarian. We should be a republic, but thats a topic for a different thread. We NEED to go to writing, then lit, followed by map making (of course, getting Masonry before Lit is done). Please, for the sake of the empire, we need the GL and some wars which will lead to Peace (mabey take out Abe and Cleo?)

Armisarian???? lol. Thats a funny variation of my name.

We have legionaries!!! Why have Republic and have war weariness if we have war with them. (Maybe u are talking about the Multi-Site). Please tell me that you guys do not think that Poly and Monarch are great moneymaking techs even if your not going for that tech. We are already behind in getting Writing and we are thinking exactly as the AI. Going for all those techs that u said is exactly what the AI would want to do there as going for Moanrchy is not.

Originally posted by Cyc
Pre-building a Wonder now would be a useless attempt at advancing us in the game. We have one of the most formidable war-mongering UU's in the Ancient Age, let's use it. We don't have enough cities to compete with the AI, and it's going to be a while before we produce more cities. Face it, we're behind in the tech race and tieing up one of our most productive cities with a Palace pre-build is just going to hurt us in the big picture. We have Legions and Temples to build, cities to create, lands to conquer, and resources to procure. Let's skip the pre-builds for now.

1. I have not came up with the idea of pre-building for the TGL.
2. I was against it.
3. This is only a summary of how to go about things, we amy get Monarchy before we start the Pre-Build if that is the situation. (though many other people are thinking to start it sooner :confused: :confused: )

Sorry, amirsan. I wasn't speaking to you directly. Just expressing my opinion.

I think that we need to be both peaceful and warlike, depending on the situation.

We should build up our armed forces (Incase if any nation is folish to declare war on us or at anytime we decide to declare war on another nation). But at the same time develop our infrastructure. Heh, that is what I have been doing in my Solo Monarch game.

@donsig - We have two sources of Iron on our mini-continent and neither of them are connected. I think we are about 3 tiles away from connecting the one near Gorina. I am hoping this is a priority, but haven't seen much discussion on it.

@Chieftess - The fact that we didn't go after Writing is water under the bridge. Let's move on. Besides, I wholly agree with the path we had chosen: direct path to our UU. How can you go wrong with that?

The way I see it, it almost looks like everything west of the Eastern landbridge is ours for the taking. I am hoping that the little patch of land past the Western landbridge does not proceed further. Here's how I would like to go about our expansion:

1. Expand peacefully to the southwest. Our best way of doing this is by builing a Granary in Gorina and Penguinadua. Use those cities solely for Settlers(maybe some workers later) and try to time them so they are built when the city is Size 3.

1a. Every new city we found gives us an opportunity to produce more Settlers/workers.

2. Connect the Iron immediately.

3. Lower the science rate, so that we can get some upgrade cash.

4. Build a Barracks in Noshuret. Send as many of our Warriors as possible there for upgrade, and use Noshuret solely to build Legionaries.

5. Send our newly-upgraded Legionaries to the Eastern landbridge. We can decide later if we should have them advance on America or Egypt. Just station them there now to protect the landbridge and keep those nations from encroaching on our land.

6. Eliminate "fog of war" in the West, at least on our main block of land. We can do this by either building new cities or Fortifying warriors on mountains/hills. This will allow us to expand peacefully without the threat of random barb huts, which we should be seeing shortly.

Also, what do you think of this?

7. Leave Nar Shaada unconnected to the Iron. This way it can still produce Warriors and send them to Noshuret.

By protecting our interests, we can expand at our pace. Doing these things should give us a chance at everything west of Noshuret. But, unfortunately, it would mean staying away from a pre-build for now.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
4. Build a Barracks in Noshuret. Send as many of our Warriors as possible there for upgrade.

5. Send our newly-upgraded Legionaries to the Eastern landbridge. We can decide later if we should have them advance on America or Egypt. Just station them there now to protect the landbridge and keep them from encroaching on our land

6. Eliminate "fog of war" in the West, at least on our main block of land. We can do this by either building new cities or Fortifying warriors on mountains/hills. This will allow us to expand peacefully without the threat of random barb huts, which we should be seeing shortly.

Also, what do you think of this?

7. Leave Nar Shaada unconnected to the Iron. This way it can still produce Warriors and send them to Noshuret.


:hmm: I should realy lock up the Military Office whem I am sleeping or use the Enigma Machine to code them in. DZ, this is exactly what my plan is going to be :).

Since we're still in the land grab phase, one of the most important strategic decisions should be which land to grab. There have been a lot of comments that we "own" the land to the West, so obviously we should settle it first.

On the contrary, rapid expansion toward the AI would be more effective in ensuring we eventually dominate the continent, by limiting their access to land. This doesn't mean we can afford to go slowly in the west, just that we need to be more aggressive about competing for the border zone. We also need to decide on what conditions we're wiilling to kill a settler/escort pair to grab bonus workers and prevent the AI from expanding.

Grab the dyes to the East first! :)

On the tech front, building the Great Library is great if your same-continent opponents are tech powerhouses. Unfortunately it is also a gamble on continents. If you get Education before making contact, there is a danger the other continents will be ahead and already beyond the point where the GL helps. Another danger with only two local opponents, if one of them is slow you're stuck with the slowest one. With more contacts in hand, you go as fast as the 2nd fastest.

On the subject of prebuilds, we'd better only start a Palace prebuild where we're willing to have the palace reside, if someone else beats us to the wonder.

On Iron: it's outside the initial radius, and until we have CB or Lit there's no way to build culture for border expansion. We'll either have to burn a worker on a colony which will get absorbed in a few dozen turns, or settle close enough to extend the borders between towns. This is the primary argument in favor of acquiring CB in trade, to allow for a fast temple (maybe even rushed) instead of the other alternatives for collecting the resources.

The other tech I often go for asap is the wheel, since an AI will be crippled if you manage to deny them horses.

I think we need to have several followup discussions.


Where to Settle
What to Research
Trade Opportunities
Adjusting Victory Objective based on current status

Some good points, d8575.

Since we're still in the land grab phase, one of the most important strategic decisions should be which land to grab. There have been a lot of comments that we "own" the land to the West, so obviously we should settle it first.

On the contrary, rapid expansion toward the AI would be more effective in ensuring we eventually dominate the continent, by limiting their access to land. This doesn't mean we can afford to go slowly in the west, just that we need to be more aggressive about competing for the border zone. We also need to decide on what conditions we're wiilling to kill a settler/escort pair to grab bonus workers and prevent the AI from expanding.

Grab the dyes to the East first! :)

I like the idea of at least grabbing the Dyes. However, I am also hoping that Fanaticans will buy into my strategy of positioning our troops at the Eastern landbridge for protection. Perhaps we can do both.

With this landbridge protected, we could pretty much pick off foreign settler/spear combos at will and would only need worry about the Dye city that extends beyond the landbridge.


On Iron: it's outside the initial radius, and until we have CB or Lit there's no way to build culture for border expansion. We'll either have to burn a worker on a colony which will get absorbed in a few dozen turns, or settle close enough to extend the borders between towns. This is the primary argument in favor of acquiring CB in trade, to allow for a fast temple (maybe even rushed) instead of the other alternatives for collecting the resources.

This is a tough one. It will be a few turns before we can get another Settler out, so I actually might consider burning the worker. This way we can begin the Upgrade process while Gorina and Penguinadua finish their Granaries(should the governor agree). Once the Granaries are in place, we should have a much easier time producing Settlers.

I think we need to have several followup discussions.


Where to Settle

This may be the only new thread we need to open. I would be interested to see where most of us stand on our Settler agenda.


What to Research

Trade Opportunities


I believe that these discussions can be found elsewhere in the Citizens Forum.

Adjusting Victory Objective based on current status

I don't think we have done anything yet to fully determine which option we should follow. I know that Spaceship was the popular goal this time around, so we should try to see that through if possible.


Very thoughtful insights, d. Welcome to Fanatica! :D

The west is safe. An agressive East settling is a good idea. From spare settlers, we can build to the W. But to keep land from the AI, we need to go east.

PS- Would anyone get annoyed if I started calling the AI "Agent Smith"?

@SAAM - If you do, I'll start calling you Trinity. ;)

DZ's overall plan is very good and I'd support this or something very similar. The most critical thing right now is denying movement of the AI to our West. That requires troop blocks and city settlement to the East.

@Shai- Dodge this :P

It is a good plan, I just wish it put more emphaisis on settling to the east. The west is safe.

I can add to this plan that we claim the dyes in the East. But protection of our mainland via the Eastern landridge should be the most important thing. I would build only 2 or 3 cities beyond that landbridge, including the Dye city, as these will be tougher to defend against America or Egypt should the need arise.

Plus, at this point, I don't think we should assume that the West is locked up for us. There could be another small land link, or some civ with Galleys could find its way onto our land in the not-so-distant future.

If we prioritize expansion to the West under my plan, we can build without much obstruction. Doing so will allow us to create an empire that can take those cities in the East with ease.

I am impatient to hook up the dyes. A 2nd early luxury = one more pop point = 2 more shields per city from the whole empire before we need to start messing with the slider.

Aside from that ... I won't mind if the iron isn't hooked up for say 20 turns yet, after we have a half dozen or more spare warriors.

Do any of our neighbors have pottery yet? If not, we know we have 40 more turns before we will see the first AI galleys. Expansion needs to be the top priority now, though, regardless of who will get mapmaking when ... I prefer the "outside inward" settling strategy to steady growth out from the center, for the easily-controlled portion of the landmass.