Well, I'm stuck in Steph's mod...

I have included almost all the techs in the game. The civilopedia texts and icons, are fare from finish, but it "works".

However, I don't know how to place correctly my techs (X,Y in the editor).

I know the theory (using science_ancient.pcx which is in art/advisor), but I don't know where to put it in the screen to have something nice.

What is the rule to find the size one of you tech will take?

How can I easily make a "sketch" of the tech tree, just placing rectangle of the correct size, so I can find the correct X, Y to put in the editor?

Can someone help me? For instance someone who could try to make the science_XXXX.pcx for me? The tech tree itself can be found on the thread

Here is just the tech tree for the first era.

How can I make it fit in the advisor screen?

making tech trees are a very hard and time consuming, but I think Kal-el made a torturial on the subject.

Kal-el has written good instructions on doing a tech tree. You can find them here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21058).

Most useful part of the instructions is the theory and a very useful image with x-y coordinates of the science advisor screen.

Each tech will take space depending on how much info is shown in the advisor screen. Units, improvements/wonders, worker jobs & obsolete wonders are all shown in the advisor screen.

Tech icon + 1 object - size 1 (Mathematics)
Tech icon + 2-3 objects - size 2 (Mapmaking)
Tech icon + 4 objects - size 3 (Construction)
Tech icon + 5 or more - size 4 (Space Flight)

Originally posted by Yoda Power
making tech trees are a very hard and time consuming, but I think Kal-el made a torturial on the subject.

Is it so difficult that you speaking of torture?:eek:

Steph you should make a utility that would make this alot easier.
How it should be done:

You have a pic of the science screen, then you click on the place you want your tech, it will then give you the cordinates, and you can then go to the editor and write the cordinates. That would really be usefull.

edit: oir just a pic with most of the cordinates written on, even that would make it much easier.

Originally posted by Steph
...What is the rule to find the size one of you tech will take?
...
It depends on how many "advances" (units, buildings and such) it gives. I think that 5 advances gives a 2-row square.

Well, I read the tutorial... It doesn't look so easy to do with about 55 techs for one era :crazyeye:

I don't think it's possible to fit all those techs into one era. It would require a very linear tech tree and a Kal-el on steroids.

I would consider stripping the tree down a bit.

OK. I think I'll make the tool to do it easier. Just need some time to find how to have it works the best.
Hmmm...

What about a window were you have a list of your techs, with simply a figure saying how many "squares" it has? (I will try to find it automatically, but this means knowing the bix format).

Then you would have X, Y coordinates for the techs, and you could simply move it around, and see in another window, above the "blank" tehc were they are?

I will include a save features, so you will get a list of all tech with X,Y

Originally posted by Steph
OK. I think I'll make the tool to do it easier. Just need some time to find how to have it works the best.
Hmmm...

What about a window were you have a list of your techs, with simply a figure saying how many "squares" it has? (I will try to find it automatically, but this means knowing the bix format).

Then you would have X, Y coordinates for the techs, and you could simply move it around, and see in another window, above the "blank" tehc were they are?

I will include a save features, so you will get a list of all tech with X,Y I like my idea better, but go ahead and make it, it would be helpfull:)

Originally posted by Yoda Power
I like my idea better, but go ahead and make it, it would be helpfull:)

If you idea is simply to get coordinates, you can get it with PSP. My idea is to effectively place the techs where they will be.
So you can check if they do not overlap.

Originally posted by Steph


If you idea is simply to get coordinates, you can get it with PSP. My idea is to effectively place the techs where they will be.
So you can check if they do not overlap. ok, but it will be hard to do.

Originally posted by Yoda Power
ok, but it will be hard to do.

I'm not so sure, if I can get a description of the bix format somewhere.

If I can't, you will have to manually create a list of techs, with the number of "boxes" you want. But you will be able to save it.

Anyway, drawing the different techs above a blank screen is easy. At least the way I plan to do it : nothing fancy! You will not get all the icons, only the place taken by the tech.

Steph, you can also fit more techs on the screen by using the Smaller tech boxes I provide in the tutorial. They remove a lot of the wasted border from each tech box to provide more space. My bet estimate right now on the total number of techs that can be placed on a non-linear tech tree is about 45.

That number is dependent on how large each box will be and how many connections need to be drawn.

I would love to see you make a tool, but I find that simply placing the techs in a blank advisor screen and then using the grid lines to determine rough X,Y coordinates is pretty simple. The hardest part is arranging them on the tree in the first place so that the arrows make some sort of sense and the whole thing doesn't look like a jumbled mess.

edit: I think there is a description of the bic format over at apolyton.

45? Arrghh... I need ten more to fit in Steph's mod!

Hmm... Perhaps I will forget about drawing the lines, and simply "list" the techs, so you can pick them if you wanna change...

Originally posted by Steph
45? Arrghh... I need ten more to fit in Steph's mod!

Hmm... Perhaps I will forget about drawing the lines, and simply "list" the techs, so you can pick them if you wanna change... you could also place them so close that there is no lines, make the prequestes "touch" the next in the line.

Originally posted by Yoda Power
you could also place them so close that there is no lines, make Yoda: The prequestes "touch" the next in the line. That's not always possible.

Steph: Don't take the 45 number as Gospel. You should play around with it a bit to see how many you can cram in there. :)

Another option, and one that I am considering for my DyP Extended is to forego the arrows as you mentioned and then create a nice large printable tech tree for the players to download and print. It's not the optimal solution but it will work.

Steph, here is a scenario bix where I combined all of the DYP Tech's with almost all of your Tech's so that there are more than 70 Tech's each era. Maybe this could help You to get your tech tree done.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Tech-Mod.zip
*Fixed*

Originally posted by los_krachos
Steph, here is a scenario bix where I combined all of the DYP Tech's with almost all of your Tech's so that there are more than 70 Tech's each era. Maybe this could help You to get your tech tree done.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/test3 the link does´nt work

Originally posted by Kal-el
...Another option, and one that I am considering for my DyP Extended is to forego the arrows as you mentioned and then create a nice large printable tech tree for the players to download and print. It's not the optimal solution but it will work.
Remember that not everyone has a printer. IMO this is not a good idea.

well you can always keep it open in a graphics program. :(

Yes, of course, but not having the tech tree as an integrated part of the game would be bad, IMO. I'm not trying to force to do anything, just telling you my point of view. :)

I know its not the optimal solution, but you would still have the techs in the advisor screen they would just be crammed together so that you wouldn't necessarily be able to follow the arrows. You would be able to click on the techs in the advisor screen to select your research path, but for a clearer picture of the tech tree you would have the image of a more spread out tree in a separate viewer.

With all the units and improvements already in DyP and I am assuming that will be in Steph's Mod it is hard to read the advisor screen as it is now.

Originally posted by Steph
I'm not so sure, if I can get a description of the bix format somewhere.

FYI, there's a link in my sig to an Apolyton thread by Gramphos (author of the multi-tool) with the BIC Format. I don't think it's updated to the PTW BIX version, but it may be enough to extract the techs; you also may be able to get some help from Gramphos himself in this regard.

Steph,

have you done any work on making this tech placement tool?