This is the first spoiler discussion thread for Gotm20-Spain.

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For Gotm20-Spain:

Absolutely must have full visibility of the landmass that you start out on in this game, including a view of most of the surrounding coastal edge with trivial exceptions AND
You must have contact with all 6 rival civilizations on that continent or their remains PLUS
you must have discovered the last required technology for the ancient age but should not discuss any aspect of the middle ages.

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[list=1]
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This thread is intended to focus on things that you did in the game that are both on the starting landmasses and in the ancient age.

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You Pick!!! What issues do you think are important to discuss within the scope of this spoiler?? What question(s) do you have that you would like to have other players share their specific experiences about?

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cracker

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http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/TreasureSurrender.gif After a month or so's lurking thought I'd give this GOTM a go. Playing it on conquest as I can just about play emporer but have never managed to get a deity game out of the BC era.

The first continent is proving very interesting so far. The Zulus are our leader by a long way with a massive empire, culture, science, millitary and so on. The other civilisations are slightly smaller than my mighty Spainards (TM), somewhat courtesy of the truly amazing start position. The exception being the French who are my tiny underdeveloped neighbour and are due a good stomping in the next couple of centuries. I've managed to settle a lot of the sub continent that I started on and only have slim borders with other nations (Celts, English and French) which makes for a nice safe position.

It's about 500BC-ish (can't check, havn't got the game on this PC) and I've hit the middle ages with the mother of all polyethism (sic?) slingshots - netted me 6 missing techs, several workers, maps and some loose change. The entire continent is pretty much populated, fishing villages and all. Currently switching production towards culture and the millitary, with the Great Lighthouse nearing completion in my second city, as part of my grand exploration plans.

Not sure where I'm going to head with this game yet, waiting to see what's under all that black on the rest of the map first. Although that might not be as easy as it sounds - seen a squid or two scuttling round just off the shore, never faced them before and they bring to mind stories of the Kraken... scary!

Anyway, having a lot of fun! Cracker, thanks for setting this up, has really enhanced my enjoyment of my favorite game!

Curious to see how other people are finding it...

:upyours:

Saw those tiles as well. All within my territory, but not sure what they do... need to check a map of Spain and work it out.

I did wonder about Shaka - I don't have my game with me, so can't check, but... has he started/finished any wonders in your version? I'm wondering if he had a similar tweak to the Romans in GOTM-19? Simply so much larger and more powerful than the other civs. Still, he's polite and friendly. In fact, the whole of the continent is so far (apart from the rude Ottomans...), looking to provoke World War zero sometime soon and see if I can slow the rather blistering tech pace down a bit.

Some nice trading there, Itcoljt, havn't seen Writing used for that gambit before, but havn't started as a commercial civ recently either. Seems a smart way to go.

My exploration was a bit botched as well. Had several warriors sprinting about, but, from the coast, assumed that the continent was Spain shaped and missed the connection through the jungle to the south (Doh!) - met the celts and english long before the French! Just suprised/lucky the french didn't take too much of an advantage from it. Wondering if they lost a settler or were modded to be weaker. How are they in your game?


Eddited as I forgot a detail or two.

On wonders:

1750 BC: The Ottomans have built the Pyramids. This is not good, but nothing to do about it now. Murcia founded: warrior@10:growth@10. Madrid=4: granary@5. Adjust slider.

1775 BC: The Zulu build the Oracle. Horseman@Seville: worker@3.

900 BC: The Great Library has been built in Zimbabwe.

Of course I didn't build any wonders. :)

Edit: Joan is doing well in my game. I think she was a little slow off the blocks due to the jungle.

That's cool. Just couldn't recall if they'd been building any in my game. Really ought to keep a timeline, but too lazy :(

Looks like I may actually scrape an ancient wonder this time: As I played conquest I had the extra settler and the treasure chests to build a temple in its town. Turned out starting things off rather faster than I'm used to... ended up with a 'spare' high production city quite early on. Figured I'd try for the lighthouse and see if I could steal a march with the exploring. I love that wonder, aside from the exploration possibilities the ability to trade resources over sea squares has had a massive impact on some of my games. It's very low on the AI build priority as well. Figure I have a reasonableish chance at it. It's a 300ft tall gamble!

Jungle would make sense, she didn't have the ideal position I guess! Doesn't do herself any favours either - when I established an embassy - Paris was size 1, grow in 1, settler due in 1 - not an ideal state for a capital!! Even when the settler pops out there's nowhere for it to go...

My best start ever! Finished QSC with 15 cities. Built on start positions and built W to E along a line S of the capital to enclose my Southern neighbor. Used some warriors to block of the peninsala to the NE, so only a few settlers got through.

I think the Hispanola, etc. are regions. I was searching the net and stuff trying to figure it out.

Checked out those names -

Andalucia is just north of Morroco and in the very south of Spain.
LaMancha is north and east of that, around Madrid.
Catalonia (Catalunya) is on the North East coast...

Map is here
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/europe/spain/spain.htm

Not sure what that all means - wonder if there will be some similar tags on bits of the map we can't see yet?

I kind of wonder whether it's a kind of hint to advise you where and when to place your towns..... Take the list of Spanish towns from the intelligence agency and place those on the map in their geographically correct locations and see what you get.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f

I lost my timeline when my computer locked up somewhere around 500bc, and since I can't think of way to recreate it short of watching the end video, I'll miss the QSC.

Zulu was the early leader followed by Otto. I went for writing-lit gambit and both times was able to only sell it to 1/2 of my landmass. The only tech I could not get in trade or as past of peace treaties was Republic, which I bought and then switched to somewhere around 200 bc.

Did anyone else see barbs? Someone above said they saw a Pict, but I didn't see anyone. I fought a few early battles, mostly to beat off the Celts and England who were trespassing, but both of them will take gpt, so they can't be too mad. 1 great leader was created, forming an army allowing me to get the Heroic Epic,. Every ancient wonder was built, I missed the GL by about 11 turns, building the FP instead. Now i have to take enough land to properly space out my palace and FP.

I wonder if the regions that Cracker placed on the map are just to make us wonder or if they will be related to future resources? I'll do some checking about that.

Sorry for the long post.. I was able to settle in place and churn out settlers every 4-5 turns. I still can't mm enough to get it a stright 4 turns. Drives me nuts :mad:

My trading business is going ok for this game. Since my civ is a comercial civ, I'm focusing on stockpiling my gold first and haven't found any war yet. So far, all AIs are either polite or cautious with me. Basically, they're all pretty much in love with me so far. I think I would have no problem following the diplomatic path. This is the first installment of my game; the rest of them is beyond the scope of this thread.

//note: Just editting out the free tech.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/TreasureSurrender.gif This is my first diety game.

I built Madrid right where I started. I moved my second settler NE for five tiles with a treasure chest and built Barcelona (there were horses within two tiles). I moved my workers (one of which was named Pancho Sanzo from "Man of La Mancha") SW to the plains to build a road and irrigate it. From there I built a road betwen Madrid and Barcelona. I also noticed the names of areas of Spain.

I used two of the treasure chests to build a defense unit in Madrid and Barcelona. I used the last one to jump start a granary in Madrid. I got disease in Madrid once, and that really hurt my settler building campaign.

For the rest of the ancient age I expanded thoughout my area. I found a choke point near the English and fortified a warrior there. That kept the English out of "my" area until they built galleys. They only manged to built one city in "my" area.

I kept the border with the French at the jungle, with a couple of exceptions. They built a city on the coast SW of Madrid. I couldn't allow that so I went to war and destroyed it. I built a city near it so that wouldn't happen again. The war was brief. I kept out of anymore wars throught the ancient era. They later built two cities on tundra on the northern bit of "my" area.

I used the strategy of no researching or buying bronze working so I could build defense units. I built two of them in each of my cities before I got bronze working. I gambled that I had iron somewhere close, and I was right.

I was WAY behind in tech the entire era. I bought what I could and was able to trade luxuries for the continental map first and then techs. Having extra incense, horses, iron and furs to trade for techs was great, but at the end of the era I was still FAR behind in tech. I did have a decent amount of land and population though.

Originally posted by serttech2003
I lost my timeline when my computer locked up somewhere around 500bc, and since I can't think of way to recreate it short of watching the end video, I'll miss the QSC.

Zulu was the early leader followed by Otto.

Did anyone else see barbs? Someone above said they saw a Pict, but I didn't see anyone.

You couldn't have loaded an autosave to re-start after your lock-up?

The Zulus and Ottomans were also strong early in my game.

I didn't see any barbs or their camps either. I also found no goody huts.

I must admit that I had a little panic when it froze and wasn't thinking quite right. (Feeling quite sheepish actually.) It was the notes in NOTEPAD that I was concerned about. I did find a save that I want to look at, bit I'm just not sure I can recreate the same moves again.

ItCone

I saw a hut, south of the starting location on the south coastline of the jungle region. It produced pictish barbarians... guess I was lucky getting both!

A nosy squid came and checked out my coastline as well.

Guess that the land barbarians are switched off but the sea beasties are still roaming...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif - PREDATOR
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f

Well, I decided to play the predator class.

I planted a city at the start site, and started my worker building a road between the incense and the wheat.

I explorered NE, then S, then E with my first three warriors. Contact w/ English, then Frence, then Celts. Found one hut, got maps. Got pottery via trading, finished a granary in Madrid, reread Bamspeedy's settlers article and started pumping out settlers. Unfortunately I didn't get to this point until 1800 bc'ish and several times forgot to micromanage to get the proper outcome. Stupid computer can't figure out that 1s, 2g, 2f is better than 1s 1g and 1f (computer continually put a citizen on an unworked plains tile rather than a mined grassland, which left me one short of food).

Interesting logistical items:

Great Library was built by Celts
Pyramids were built by Overseas Civ :mad:

All in all my QSC ended up with 12 cities and two settlers outbound. I am not submitting as I couldn't get the timeline program to work, but I wanted to post for comparison.

I traded for mapmaking and built 3 galley's. A suicide galley reached the other continent in 400'ish bc. Contacts with all other civs were made by 350bc and I had one of those monster trading turns.

I got up to the 15 city range and began pumping horseman. I had barracks built in most cities and got up to 40 veteran horsemen. I decided the time was right to attack the Celts. They had the great library and there were knights running around. I wanted Chivalry to upgrade my 40 horsemen. Signed an ROP with English. I managed to take Entremont, home of the great library and at the end of that turn, my ability to post in this spoiler ends.

Predator class impact

No wheel at beginning means I didn't know where horses were. No biggie as when I got horses, I found I had already settled one tile away. Didn't miss the extra gold.

Raging barbarians. Lost several workers to barbarians (mostly slaves) but never lost a settler. Lost 500ish gold and a few pop points as well. Had a MASSIVE uprising near my jungle town (the one getting the dyes north of France). I had two fortified spearman in that town and about 50 horsemen killed themselves trying to get in but never could. Obviously, I had two elite spearman when all was said and done.

Strategically, the only impact predator had on me was that I would not send out a settler w/o an escort.

1000bc graph

Originally posted by TriviAl
ItCone

I saw a hut, south of the starting location on the south coastline of the jungle region. It produced pictish barbarians... guess I was lucky getting both!

A nosy squid came and checked out my coastline as well.

Guess that the land barbarians are switched off but the sea beasties are still roaming...

I just wonder if open and conquest classes are different with the barbs and goody huts. I never saw the goody hut you're talking about. The French could have gotten to it first, but i doubt it...

I was a little confused when someone mentioned Otto, I thought for a second that the Germans were in the game and Shaka might of eaten them.

Question of the day: Is the 1000BC turn number 80 or 81?

I'll try and remember what I can. I'm at work right now.

At 1000BC, I had 12 cities and was holding my own. Then things went a bit bad after that. Basically the whole world went to war with me. I refused to give Zulu tribute and they must have paid everyone else off to fight me. India was the only one who didn't join up (they liked me :) ). I thought I was safe since both Zulu and the Turks were far away. Nope, they just strolled through Franch and I had to rush everyone and anyone I had down to my border. At one point I didn't think I would make it. Celt and English coming from the north, everyone else from the south. But I gave in and paid off Turks and Zulu and held back the French. They paid later :) I took a Celt town and 2 French towns in the conflict.

I too never found a single goody hut or barb. Hmm, not complaining though.

I found it incredibly hard to keep up in the tech race. No one wants to trade with me and I'm so far behind. Any advice?

Dislak

Pay tribute to the nasty guys would be my advice. If your Zulus were like the ones in my game then they are about twice the size/power of me. Easy and cheap to cave on a demand for a few coins or a map?

Certainly a lot easier than an early 'dogpile' war?

Although it sounds like it didn't put you out of the game it must have delayed production/expansion?

My prefered method with techs is to do a 40 turn research on a tech the AI doesn't research as a priority (Polyethism/Printing Press are my favorites) and trade it around for other tech. It is a gamble, but can really pay off. Failing that you could take a risk and partially bankrupt yourself buying a tech only 1/2 others have and trading it for the stuff you are missing...

Another option would be what someone termed 'pointy stick' research - go to war and thrash the hell out of another civ (preferably bribing the others into helping you). As a peace deal insist on a lot of tech...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/TreasureSurrender.gif Hey everyone

This is my first post and also my first GOTM:)

Playing conquest class

First moved a chest to the hill, then sent one of my settlers 2 squares northeast to get both cows while my second settler moved west to fund a coastal city while the settlers started at work

First built a temple in both cities while leaving a treasure chest behind in Madrid and sending the other 2 out exploring

found a barbarian piece of artillery and watched it behing destroied by the english. Made first contact.

My first warrior made contact with the French, while the Luggage made contact with the kelts and I managed to trade the wheel for some techs and little cash

Whent all out settler building and by the end of the ancient era I had the largest territory (15 cities) according to herodotus and most civs where impressed with my culture. Built San Sebastian near the Istmus blocking the passage of both english and kelts, and used two chests to rush a temple there
Created a line of fortified cities along the edge of the forrest preventing French expansion but somehow they had their galleys on steroids and managed to found grenoble just north of Madrid... a slip up that they while soon regret.

I control 4 lux that are making wonders at keeping the populace happy and working, 2 horses and 3 iron. Looking good so far.

The drawback is that military is practicly non existant, I failed to build the GL in Madrid by 11 turns and that cost me plenty of production, failed the writing gambit and only manage to sell it to the Zulus in exchange of a map and losse change... no one whanted to buy my map :(, tried to go for Lit but failed also this time everione had it before I did by about 2 turns. Had to buy my way into medieval age. So in the spirit of good old castilla I'm a giant with feet of clay.
I heard legends of cities across the ocean with fabulous cities and wonders behond belief but due to the overpopulation of our shore by giant monsters the sailors have been reticent to sail into the ocean.

France is the current tech leader followed close by the Ottomans, the Zulus military might is legendary and their impys are snifing around my south border... I can tell that if they sense blood they will stricke. The Indians are the only other civ encrouching on my territory... a lost fishing filage in the middle of the tundra there's probably oil there or maybe some exotic ore that my alchemists havent managed to identify so far.

Now I'm concentrating on building up my military, and culture... since after a few thousand years ...

Terrible news the people of Setubal have sold out to the French... go figure they admire the "so called culture" of the French, lost one iron mine and incense field. My generals are calling to make preparations they will learn that it is wiser not to help cessessionist rebels... the hard way.

I might go back and just give Zulu and the Turks some gold as a gift. After I conduct my next plan of war, I hope to have some extra cities to gift to them. Then maybe they will trade with me. The Turks don't hate me as bad as them because I traded them Iron and Horses for about 40 gpt. They were fighting a losing war with Zulu and I didn't want to have Zulu for my southern border. Turks are much nicer :)

Mistaken post... :o

TriviAl

Sorry, when I said go back I didn't really finish my sentence :) I meant when I go back to my computer from work then i might give them some gold. Opps.

Yea, I've taken the military strategy with the French and demanded some techs from them for peace. Hopefully with my newest war I can gain more.

Dislak.

That's cool. Realised that was probably what you meant after I hit 'Post'! Sorry about that. Also read that post again and didn't come out the way I was thinking it should. Been working too much and brain is toast. :(

Again a slight mispost was here. :o

Well, on the open class, I moved my worker south to check on this "potential" incense and wheat, people have speculated about and lo' and behold - there they are :eek: !!!! So I found my city where it stands.

By 1000BC I have built 12 cities with 2 settlers marching around, looking for a good spot. It was very nice not finding any barbs roaming around.

My cities were placed near the luxes I could find(furs/dyes/ivory) and then started filling in the area between France and Celts/English.

Placing a warrior early on the chokepoint helped for awhile holding back the Celts and English, while the jungle seemed to slow the French.

Well, I guess we can tell that we live on a donut island and there has got to be something good to the west in that big black void. I'm getting ready to sail across and get some contacts and sell them off to catchup in techs. Hopefully.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif - PREDATOR
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f

I played Predator and so far it has been an enjoyable game. I got the full map much later than most. The huge Zulu refused to trade maps and the others would only give up Territory Maps.

I moved the settler to the NE hill and was pleasantly surprised to see 2 cows and FP wheat [dance] Started research on pottery at 100%. I fully believed that missing writing was a forgone conclusion given the settler move. Tech throughout the Ancient Times was a struggle - whatever gold I did have was extorted by demands I caved to or taken by ransacking barbs. My 1 40 turn gambit came on Lit and I missed by 1 turn :(. The best tech deals I had came to pull me out of the Ancient times about 10 turns after the rest. I was able to trade extra horses and Iron to the Celts for Currency, and Construction propelling me to the Middle Ages right around the same time as my first War. A war for territory with the French. I captured 2 cities with Swords and Horses and took peace early not wanting to over extend myself. I will go again in 20 turns :hammer:. That is if Brennus minds his manners.


I can get a bit more detailed later today but wanted to comment on the difference in the Predator game.

Barbs: Early on I lost my exploring warrior to a pictish warrior. Had to use Warriors for settler protection and a few times had to stop worker actions to move workers out of harms way wasting turns. Later I had the same city saked by 40+ horses at the age change 2 barb camps in the vacinity each produced over ~21 horses and everyone went at my now undefended city. Lets just say I finished the QSC with zero gold.

Hut benefits: After reading Moonsinger's report: Behold the power of the wheel. I basically lost a huge trading opportunity by chosing to play predator. The wheel gave the open class player a major tech to trade - espcially that none of the Civs on the Continent get the Wheel for Free. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference not having the wheel will effect the QSC. The gold I think is a less of Factor.

Zulus At first contact early in the QSC period I was shocked to see 3 times the number of cities than the rest - They are the civ on steriods this round.

Lux: They are key - I was able to get 4 lux early on (incense, dyes, ivory and furs). My weak economy needs it.

The Whip: Gotta love cheap temples. I whipped virtually all my cities for temples early. Try to grab as many tiles early and this being conquest I want to be able to have some culture to avoid the flips back.

Turn order Calculations: This is the first time that I recall being able to manipulate the cycle in my favor. As posted in other threads the order things happen are very important and I never really realized the impact. My capital has a great balance of food and shields and is setup for a settler factory early on with a granary. I was able to get on a 4/6/4 cycle running max food then MM at size 5 to go growth in 1 settler in 2. Now I thought for sure I was going to have to wait 2 turns for a settler. By MM to leave a forest open I grew the open forest was worked and I built a settler that same turn. I did this from then out missing once and rioting :smoke:. The power of this move is esstintially getting a settler every 4 turns. Matching growth and production.

I will grab some screen shots and try post a few more details about my QSC later.

Hotrod

Trivial and Dislak and potentially other newcomers,

Just a little process reminder that our purpose in the spoiler threads is primarily to discuss what we HAVE DONE and to help each other review what has gone on in our games with an eye to how that may be improved or enhanced in future games.

We want to quard a little bit against the temptation to dicuss too much of what we think we might do in the future time phases of this game. We want those decisions to be made individually by the players and then reported as stories. We want to avoid having these spoiler threads be sources of suggestions, discussion, and speculation of what we think we might do next.

The key here is to use the game to compare what we have done without necessarily gaining information to change or adjust our strategy except from within our own games.

Open Class [civ3mac] 1.29

Our worker moved on the hill and was happy; settler followed. Thanks to this food rich starting position (4 turn settler factory) we could nearly keep up with the AIs. We have 12 cities (plus 3 settlers), 3 luxuries connected, the 4th claimed. We have iron and horses.

We did not succeed with our minimum research; missed literature by 7 turns.

Spain entered the Middle Ages in 1025 BC, only trailing the Ottoman's free tech.

The histograph shows no super power, but the Ottomans are a very strong culture leader.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/tao_gotm20_1000bc_histo.jpg

We met not a single barb; no goody hut either.

Hotrod
The wheel made a huge difference to me. Held off trading it till I'd met Celts, English, French and Ottos. Managed to get several techs, including Mysticsm, which made a Polyethism slingshot possible... Due to imbalances between the AI civs, that bought me within 1 tech of the middle ages.

Sounds like your barbarians were a whole lot more feisty as well.

Cracker
Taken on board. Missed the point slightly. Sorry about that.

Moonsinger, the other civs researched a bit differently in my game, but you did a terrific job extracting gold from them. Although I settled Madrid south of your settlement, and built my granary there instead of Barcelona, I founded Ciudad de la Luna on the very same spot as you!

Everyone seems to be doing very well it's certainly a reassuring and promising starting location.

4000 BC

Wheat was clear and incense pretty clear to the south. Since the worker will work wheat for max food, he moves S. Moving the settler SW would keep him out of the FP, but away from the wheat and negates a coastal city to the W of our capital. Moving S would put him near the wheat, but on a FP and still crowds the W tiles. Moving SE would leave some room to the W, but had no advantages over moving E. The E tile incorporated the wheat with the grassland potential, as well as leaving room for productive cities to the W and N. The only downside was the increased chance of disease. I figured I’d deal with it: the settler moved E.

EXPANSION AND TECH OVERVIEW

There are two commercial civs and five religious, including two likely on our continent. This led me to research writing (10%), not to mention that it’s worth more than mysticism. If a quick trade for masonry came along, I’d switch to math. I gambled that pottery will soon become available, as Madrid had the potential to be a perfect settler factory.

There was nothing more to ask for regarding our starting position. It was promising enough for me to build a granary in Madrid after the first settler. Thanks to the granary (a settler every four turns) and the absence of barbs and encroaching civilizations, I just about filled up the territory between the jungle and the strait.

My build pattern was two tight rings around Madrid, then filling in north of the jungle, and straight west and north to the luxuries and iron. England and the Keltoi each pushed one city past the strait; France built two on the edge of the jungle, and one far enough NW to split the incense with me. Their only source of horses is just south of that. This only confirms that France will be my primary victim.

The downside to the relatively isolated start was meeting my neighbors – first France, then the English, later the Kelts – too late do more than trade the wheel + 67g for masonry and pottery. By then I was committed to researching writing. I met the Ottomans in 2230, and shrugged off disease striking Madrid in 2150. Three major trading rounds were the key to my ancient progress:

2110 BC

I finish researching writing, which England and France already have. I have only that tech, plus alphabet, CB, masonry, pottery and the wheel. All of the second-level techs have been discovered, and I don’t have contact with India or the Zulus. Seven different trades that cost me writing + 2gpt, give me the two missing contacts, one worker, HBR, WC, masonry, BW, IW, math, mysticism and philosophy + 9g. I am now tied for the lead in tech. I decide to research polytheism (10%) rather than currency, expecting tech leaders France and England to head in that direction.

1400 BC

I bet wrong – polytheism was researched in 1675, and I quit researching. I’m falling behind in tech, but bide my time for the best opportunity, which comes in 1400. The net result is that I paid 268g for CoL, polytheism, mm and my first wm. Only France has construction, and only England has currency, so I hold off on those. I decide to research republic, rather than pay through the nose for it later. I estimate that I won’t be ready for it until I research it, anyway.

1150 BC

With construction and currency more available, it is time for a third major trade, or really risk falling behind. I gained construction, currency and literature, as well as a map of the entire continent, for 237g + 11gpt, thus entering the Middle Ages. In the process, I gave away construction to the Zulus. At this point, Spain is even in tech except for the Ottomans, who have a medieval tech; all ancient techs except monarchy and republic (unavailable) have been acquired. Republic will be researched in 30 turns.

Spain is average in culture, but possibly first in the power graph, despite being last in the rankings. It is fifth in size, third in pop and mfg, second in literacy, gnp and income, and first in approval and productivity. Spain is poised to fill in the remaining continental space, then wage war against France to take her only source of horses.

My power curve IIRC looks very much like Nightfall. I think the Zulus are an added bonus for the Predator player :eek:. Like we really need any more trouble :lol: !

My Ottomans are very weak. Actually the only real concern I have is the Zulu.

Also, I am glad that disease hasn't hit at all.

Hotrod

Yeah, the Zulus are monsters. I'm saving them for last :)

EDIT: Last on my continent

Txurce,

How much gold do you have at 1000 BC? In any case, I'm sure your QSC will rank a lot higher than mine. As usual, I miss the QSC timeline by just 1 or 2 turns. I also made another major mistake in my game...because I fogot to block off that little passage in the NE to prevent the Celts and the English from claiming my land.

Btw: my game was played in PTW v1.21. Sorry I forgot to include that icon in my last post. I will try to remember it next time. I wish that we will have this smiley icon [ptw] in the near future.

I had one of my best starts I can remember. I turned Madrid and later Barcelona into settler factories, and did my best to expand like a bat out of hell. At 1000 BC I had 12 cities, which I was happy with.

I entered the middle ages at around 200 BC or so, profiting greatly from items of lets say....foreign interest. I was still behind in techs, but within striking distance of my enemies.

The Zulu were pumped up, severly. In my estimations, I think they may have had as many as five settlers to start. :eek:

Cracker-

Sorry for not sticking to the rules of this post. I'll try and do better next time. :goodjob:

I can't seem to get my pictures small enough in size to post on the board? Any help?

Sigh: I lost my whole writing because of the stupid browser crash. I wrote it with details, I did use the copy and paste but, I don`t know, it just can`t. I`m so dissapointed...:( :(

I settled on the hill after moving my worker. Madrid is a good city with 2 cattles, wheat and near to incense. I built my second city at about 3010 BC. I set for writing gambit.

I managed to get writing and got all the first and second level techs from it. Then I went for poly as Zulus has already had maths. Getting poly is another good thing as I got all the third level techs. Lastly Monarchy gave me all the remaining ancient techs and I entered middle ages at about 310BC.

1000BC: I had about 12 cities.
310BC : 19 cities (no forbidden yet, 38 turns to go)

I involved in early fake war with the ottoman as they tried to trespass my territory. I bought alliance with everyone. The result, they were left with one city. So sad once a thriving civ ...

I`he never met any land barb or hut... Even with this, Zulus became the superpower with large territory and army. They gobbled up the ottomans easily.... after that is another story but waht I can say is expansionist civs are strong in my game.... :cry:

All wonders were built in my continet except The Colossus ( Iroqouis)....
Pyramids - Ottoman ( captured by zulus)
GL - Ottomans ( captured)
Hanging Gardens - Zulus
GW - Zulus again!! :mad:
G Lighthouse - French

BTW, french has done quite well with 13 cities. :eek:

At last - 19 cities, all ancient techs , Whole continent map, french are at war with England.... I was in Monarchy for 2 turns when I got Republics and revolted...

This was an entertaining game.

I played the open class and started researching writing right away. I found the celts and english first and used the warrior block to stop the influx of settlers. I settled near 4 lux's and 3 irons, and 2 horse. Some good trading ammo indeed. I used the wheel and alphabet to land masonry, myst., warrior code, pottery from the close rivals and made writing first. Used this to take the take lead and acquire iron working, math, hbr. Went to poly next hoping for another tech win but missed by several turns. I was able to trade myself into the middle ages as the tech leader which was an unexpected deity outcome for me. The ottomans completed the pyramids and within 5 turns the Zulu had taken their capital and the pyramids and left the ottomans doomed to a memory. The zulus are extremely powerful, but coincidently behind in techs to the french,celts and Spaniards. This scope ends with myself controlling the entire green area while the french and english managed to ship some settlers into the tundra on our northern border. No worries as those spots seem less than ideal for city placement. I have extended my cultural borders into the jungle in the south and up to the land bridge in the west. I am pleased.

The Zulus are also the most powerful civs in my game but I think they will be destroyed soon. Since I'm playing Robin Hood in this game by draining techs and gold from the rich then giving them to the poor, every lesser civs surrounding the Zulus are almost equally strong.:lol:

Open class, Civ 1.29f

Edit (oops: rankings were at 1750 BC when I made contact)
466 Ottomans
348 Keltoi
321 Zulu
319 France
286 England
280 India
195 Spain :(

Rankings at 1000 BC
782 Ottomans
623 Keltoi
546 France
519 Zululand
501 India
468 England
417 Spain

I wanted to save gold so built a granary rather late, avoiding heavy use of the luxury slider and upkeep on the granary. I prepared for barbs but was thankful there were none, though a squid attacked my first galley.

16 cities at 1000 BC as I prepare for war against France

When can I get a city named after me? Bamspeedy got one and so did Ribnnah as well as one that had a reference to Moonsinger i think. You can call mine....Cidade de Perderdor. (sorry for the Portuguese, Loser City).

Think I'll go check the names of the other Civs.

some of you are getting some good trades out of writing.
i did the 40-turn research and everyone else already had it
except the English. i ended up only getting 30g out of it.

I made the mistake towards the end of the QSC of not paying tribute to the Zulus. I figured they were way too far away to transport any real problems via attack. I was pretty much right, but they got several other civs at different times to join in. At first is was the Indians, no big deal as they were far away too. The English were second then the Celts right at the end of the Ancient Era. I have been able to hold them off and build up a bit, but no leaders so far and my growth has been affected. A quick question for those that payed tribute, when was it you paid and did they come back for more quickly or did they declare war anyway?

Originally posted by drewshark
A quick question for those that payed tribute, when was it you paid and did they come back for more quickly or did they declare war anyway?

I paid tribute several times and mostly it was maps + Gold<100. I think on deity unless you are powerful enough to handle a war and/or have enough money to bribe someone to your side, always give in. Always.

CONQUEST - Civ1.29b2 (mac)

Well, so I've never played a game above Monarch (!), but I thought I'd give the GOTM a try since Cracker has made it so easy and accessible to all users! Yay Cracker!

Anyway, I'm obviously playing on Conquest and I've been really pleased with the bonuses it has provided. I'm not good with pasting images, but I'll try to let you all know where I am currently in my game.

The Year -- 900 BC

I just entered the middle ages by gaining construction (more on that later). I have just sling-shotted slightly ahead in tech except for the Ottomans who are the clear leaders in my game (MAJOR culture, MAJOR rudeness) and who already have Monotheism (I'm unfamiliar with them, are they scientific? They must be).

I have 13 cities and two settlers en route. My score places me in 2nd (!!!) place (not for long, I'm sure) with 578 points, behind the Ottomans with 689 points.

Now for some more specifics about my game so far and what I've done....

The Start

So, I have never really tried planning out a "Settler factory" before but after reading about how to do it I think I got it working pretty well. Using Conquest, I built madrid at the starting spot and my 2nd city (with free settler) on the first forest S/SE. Closer than I'm used to, but that was recommended for diety. I used two treasures to rush a defense :goodjob: and a warrior by turn three :lol: . My third treasure was used to rush a defense in my second city. I met the English, traded wheel for pottery (I wanted the grannery ASAP), started Madrid on grannery and started my 2nd city on a temple. I used one of my workers to begin improving terrain (irrigate cattle, wheat, mine hill) for the settler factory, and the other to road the incense (yay for luxuries!).

So, in not too long I was pumping out settlers between every 4-6 turns, which seemed like a miracle. My 2nd city was doing so well after its temple that I built a few more warriors and then started on more defense!! It was suggested in the Conquest strategy forum that building LOTS of defense early and then upgrading them only after bronze working later would make a good strategy. So, I tried this. By 900 BC (and some upgrading) I have 11 defense and 9 spearmen for my 13 cities. Feels good.... :crazyeye:

The Politics

I really like France. Joan always has money and is generous with the technology she researchs. I hate England. Right after map making was discovered she demanded my world map (!) and some gold, so I rejected her puny offer. She sent over 8 warriors which were decimated by the walls of my defense. Ha!! I never sent a single warrior her way, but she gave me peace easily after losing a bunch of power.

As for now, the Ottomans have been declaring war on people. Currently they're quibbling with the Zulus. Previously it was the Indians. I don't know what the outcome of all this will be.

The Expansion

With 13 cities by 900 BC I'm feeling pretty happy, although I still have a lot of room left on my corner of the world. I blocked the gap early so no one has exanded into my land yet. France is behaving herself.

The Tech Race

I have spent most of the game behind by 3-5 techs. I gave away the Wheel early in order to get pottery. I was making some good cash early on (17 gpt) on minimal research, so I could by most early techs for around 100-140 gp. I resisted bronze working until early on. I reached writing 2 turns behind everyone else. I was able to sell some of the techs I bought to other civs in exchange for more tech. I tried building the Great Library but fell short by 11 turns. :cry:

{that all changed with one set of lucky and good decisions}

A few things I want to comment on and pose to the group:

Barbarians: So I found the elusive jungle goody hut, popped three picts but my warrior survived. These are the only barbs I've seen ALL game excluding squiddies. Yay!!! Squiddies scare me though, I have yet to do battle with one (galleas's??).

Angering through trade? : So when I arbitraged Monarchy to all my continental friends in 900 BC I asked what they would give (typically 100-200 gp plus world map), so I left out the World Map (already had it), and took all their gold --whatever my advisor said they would agree to. But then, AFTER the trade, they didn't like me as much!!!!! Does anyone have any clue why this happened??? India dropped to Annoyed, Zulu to cautious. Only France didn't drop. <snip>

Conquest vs. Open: I have to say, Conquest has been really enjoyable. Defense gave me confidence and strength to deny the English barbarians what they desired. The treasure plus settler and our faithful sidekick Sancho Pazza helped me get a quick start. I know I will be utterly defeated in the end, but it'll be a challenge just to see how far I can go!

Now the final question: what do I (we?) do now that the middle ages have been entered???

good playing (and sorry this is lengthy....)

I GOT GREAT LIBRARY! I GOT GREAT LIBRARY!!!:D

I followed the plan someone posted for the 40 turn Writing/Lit gambit with a side order of pre-build, and it paid off!!! I settled Madrid at the start and started pumping out the citybabies. I put barcelona in the middle of all those BGs and hills to the north and worked the heck out of the mines. When I got writing I traded it for parity(my second instance after the intial meet and greet) and then rode out Lit with a lot of sweating. I got it first and held out trading it until India learned it on their own. {let us avoid discussion of things beyond our starting continent for this thread} I traded the heck outta {of civs and got} a lot of GPT deals from {my rivals} for tech and World maps and I was sitting pretty with no research and 2 lux, taking in 150+ GPT! I used the money to start jacking my military. I've advanced further but won't speak of that yet. It's not as sunny as my start. I wish I kept a timeline. I had about 12-15 cities and zulu was the man, but india was tops in science. England wiped out the celts and me and zulu ran the ottomans down to one city. as the middle ages started I was preparing for france. . .:goodjob:

Tarquin99 and RocknOats,

Sounds like you guys are enjoying yourselves a great deal and getting a great deal out of the game. We can sense your excitement and sense of accomplishments.

(let's all avoid discussion of the New World issues in this spoiler and save them for the excitements of Spoiler #2 early next week)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Open.jpg
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.14f Euro.

opening play : I settled on the spot, and after discovering the wheat and cattle, build a similar scenario to practise some sequences. I eventually came up with this : worker south - irrigate - east - irrigate wheat - road - go west - go southwest - hook up incense - go back into Madrid - go north - cut forest while building granary - road - go northwest - irrigate cattle - road. About creating a look-alike scenario: I thought carefully before doing this; making sure it wasn't cheating. But I didn't work on the actual game-file, so I never saw the tiles beyond the city-sphere until I returned, and it's just easier to play it than doing the maths on paper. I would even dare to promote this approach.

city management : I built a 4-turn settler factory in Madrid, and kept it up all the way to 1000BC. I either built warriors, workers or popped temples (since I have this delusion of going for a cultural win). In 1000BC I have 16 cities with 32 citizens. there's still some room to put a couple of cities more.

research & trade : I started going full-out on pottery. Got that in 20 turns. Then researched writing in 40 turns, but I was far from the first to get it. I waited until then to do any serious trading, trying to keep research slow. Here are my notes from the QSC on that trade :
Everyone has the 3 level-one techs I'm still missing. English and Celts are the only ones without map making. I'll buy that tech first. Not from the Zulu, since they are the most powerful, and I'd like to get a war started against them. France will probably offer a good price. Looks like I'm the weakest civ, so no peace-renegotiations. Treasury : 333g.Buy map making from France for world map and 212g.Get bronze, masonry, warrior code, mysticism and territory map from Brennus for map making, world map and 15g.Get horseback riding, world map and 23g (all) from England for world map and map making. I now have a pretty complete map of the continent - nice !Establish embassy with India - they will be my favorite civ.Further trading would put me in debt, so decide to stop here, despite not getting iron working and mathematics (and possibly currency and construction) : first want to settle the remaining land and hook up a couple of resources - don't need the tech yet anyways.Oh wait, first get some gold back by selling my world map :Sell world map to Ottomans for 49g. Darn - forgot to check first who would offer most money.Sell world map and 5g for zulu's world mapSell world map to India for their world map and 11 gold (all)Sell world map to Ottomans for their world map and 1g.Sell world map to Celts for their world map and 16g (all)Sell world map to France for 50g. Treasury : 221g.Set research to Philosophy, 0% (no research).

5 turns later the Ottomans got Code of Laws and the Zulu got philosophy. I buy philosophy but CoL is still too expensive. I can only buy it much later when India and France also discover it on their own. In general I don't manage to close the tech-gap until 1000BC, when I enter the Middle-Ages, but that's for the next spoiler. :)

AI : Zulu got a power-start, obviously. England and Celts are weak. Everyone's at peace still. I think the named tiles are just decorative. They seem to be more or less correctly placed, except for Andalusia (although : someone hinted that it might be indicating settler-directions - seems plausible. I never made the link myself though).


Status :
16 towns harboring 32 citizens, 1 settler on the move
9 workers
17 warriors, 1 spearman, 1 galley
1 granary, 7 temples
All ancient techs except Republic, trailing 1 to Ottomans.

I don't have my timeline cleaned up yet, but my game is a lot like Moonsinger's (edited previous comments out after reading her timeline more closely). I got Polytheism monopoly via min research in 975BC, and promptly traded for the six techs I was behind, plus all of everyone's cash. Unfortunately they don't have any gpt to give me, but I'll end this turn with over 1700 in the bank, I think. I did let the French beat me to the ivory, an unfortunate mistake/oversight.

The QSC rankings this month are going to be pretty screwed up, imho, because anyone who did min research successfully will have much higher QSC score in 975BC than in 1000BC (assuming they moved to the hill on turn 1, which is clearly best given the map). Cracker, what do you think of accepting 975BC submissions instead of 1000BC (with some adjustment factor) for people who have much higher scores one turn later?

Ambiorix, how/when did you get Monarchy? Having a better government puts you significantly ahead of me at 975BC, I think.

1.29b Open Class

With such a generous start position, blessed with a food bonanza and sheltered to the North and South by restrictive terrain features, many people should be getting their first deity win. In fact, the start was so promising, that I made a pivotal decision which would normally be suicidal at this level.

4000 BC- I open the save and clearly see a floodplain wheat sticking out of the fog. Moving the worker to the NE hill reveals two cattle and some bonus grassland. After making some calculations I find that the land should be able to support two settler factories with some heavy terrain improvement. To get these improvements up and running quickly, Madrid is founded immediately, and the very first build is a worker. Research is set to writing at minimum science, hoping to trade for Pottery.

2150 BC- My writing gambit does not fully pay off as France and England get it first. However, it made the following trades possible (what they give is on the left, and what I give is on the right).

France: Contact with Keltoi <---> 94g
Keltoi: Contact with Zulu <---> Writing
Zulu: Mysticism + Contact with Ottoman <---> Writing + 8g
Ottoman: Ironworking + Contact with India <---> Writing +60g
Keltoi: Masonry + Warriorcode + 9g <--->Ironworking + 3gpt.

1650 BC- Polytheism minimum gambit fails. Trading ensues.

France: Polytheism <---> 9gpt + 90g
Keltoi: Horseback Riding + Slave + 5g <---> Polytheism
Ottoman: Mathmatics + 5g <---> Polytheism.

1500 BC- Map making becomes affordable, and the ensuing trading gains most of the price back. I end up shipping France an additional 7 gold per turn while purchasing the tech (This may have had unintended consequences).

1300 BC- The top portion of the following screenshot shows my dual settler pumps in action, with Barcelona and Madrid each sending out a settler every 4 turns with constant micromanagement. Also notice that France has two undefended settlers wandering around in search of a bodyguard. The only explanation I can think of is that my gold per turn deals with France somehow caused them to go bankrupt, disbanding the settler escorts (ie they traded away the gpt, then one of the deals expired causing bankrupcy). In any case, the French settlers waited to get new escorts, which delayed them enough that they never got a chance to found a city.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/GM20_1300BCtact.jpg
1150 BC- The Ottomans demand 31g + TM, and after consideration I foolishly refuse, sparking a war which would have continent-wide consequences.

1125 BC- War happiness lets me lower the luxury tax, and I buy France and England against the Ottoman Empire for a total cost of 68g + 12gpt + Philosophy (this includes the price of embassies).

1100 BC- India Allies against me.
1075 BC- Buy Embassy with Zulu for 54g but am unable to bring them against India. Notice that they are at war with the Ottoman already. Buy Embassy with Keltoi for 30g, and they are already at war with India, and they pay 25g for an alliance.

1050 BC- India pays the Zulu to declare war on me.

1025 BC- Construction buys the Keltoi against Zululand.

1000 BC- I have 13 cities, 3 settlers in the pipe, and the world is at war. The alliances were quite costly, but it will slow down the tech pace and economic development on the home continent without effecting my own buildup too much.

Diplomatic front as of 1000 BC
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/GM20diplowar_tact.jpg

850 BC- Peace with India for 4gpt
810 BC- Entry into the Middle Ages.

Zwingli: Do you think having two settler pumps was worth the delay in getting them set up? I also built two early granaries, but I set up Madrid to pump settlers (every 4 turns), and Barcelona to pump workers (every 3 turns). I suspect (from your final position) that this was much faster to get going, and probably as effective. Eventually, you can get more cities than me, but that won't happen until around 20 cities, I think, and cities past 20 aren't worth much anyway. Also, because I could do my pumping without fully utilizing the bonus wheat and cattle resources every single turn, my other cities benefited by occasionally getting to use those (on "off" turns). And I bet I have a lot more workers, which is pretty useful.

CONQUEST - Civ1.29b2 (mac) -- long post

This is my second GOTM that I will be submitting (played 17 & 18 after they closed). I usually play Emperor level on huge maps so I am pretty experienced, but rarely play Diety so I decided to go Conquest. Plus, I wanted to see some new units and make sure I could stay in the game long enough to at least post during the first spoiler discussion!

I got off to my best start ever I think. Used the treasure chests to scout the NE hill and S areas to look for the best city sites. Wow, what a great neighborhood to grow up in!!! Saw all those wonderful bonus tiles and decided that I would put Madrid right where I was and moved the other starting settler E - NE over the hill and founded Barcellona just a few tiles away with more overlap than I ever give to my opening cities.

At that point I got punch drunk with all those extra units and started exploring with the chests and first warrior. I had most of the greenbelt region of my side of the continet explored before meeting my first neighbor the English. 1 turn later I met French, Keltoi and Ottomans and traded my wheel and contacts for the few techs available except Bronze. I had decided to use the conquest level Defence units to guard my cities and thus ignored bronze until quite late. Went for writing on a 40 turn gambit and I think I was 2nd to get it as only the English didn't need it when I traded. I then tried for Lit and gambled on the Great Library. I had already decided to do that early on after using 2 chests to build a temple early on in Barcellona and a grainery in Madrid. Used the capitol as a settler factory and pre-built a palace for switch to GL when it was time.

The total absence of Barbs allowed me to gamble early on with unescorted settlers a bunch of times. This allowed me to really expand quickly. Pop rushed a defense or temple in most cities to start. One mistake early on was not closing off the NE choke point early enough, The English and Keltoi got 2 cities on "my" eastern shore.

I was in second place the whole way into Middle ages behind a very strong Ottoman tribe. They dominated the ancient world culturally and militarily until I got the Great Library in 900BC. I had Literture 1st by quite a few turns but I was afraid to give it up until I built the wonder. It was very fortunate that I did build it because I was dead last in Tech by then until the power of the written word sent me back to the top.

The Middle Ages started for me just after starting the first war on the continent against the French. They kept sending wave after wave of settlers into my territory untill I got POed...and got the library and was able to upgrade my 20 odd units to swordsmen. In 650BC My first suicide galley made it all the way across to a far Eastern shore only to die a horrible death at sea prior to spotting any inhabitants. He did send word of areas that showed signs of intelligient land use... A New World maybe???!!!

I was amazed that there were no wars of any kind that I saw until I started one against the French. No Barbs and no goodie huts as well. I held on to Lit way too long but getting the GL caught me up and allowed me to upgrade like crazy when I switched govts.. It was the Library that brought me over. i paid tribute early to Otto and Kelts but wasn't worried too much.

My 1000BC Stats:
12 Cities, 2 Settlers at new sites, 3 workers, 13 warriors, 2 charriots, 11 Defense.
Ottomans: 835
Spanish:646
Keltoi:558

All and all a great start and time will tell if I can ride this beginning to victory...

@DaviddesJ

Setting up 2 settler factories did take some time, and I may indeed have ended up with fewer workers (11 native + 1 slave @ 1000BC). Barcelona actually built a few units and workers before starting the granery, by which time I had confirmed that there might be enough free land to justify such a project. The opportunity to effectively double so much "corruption free" (close to the capital) food ended up being too tempting for me to resist, and I delegated worker construction to southern Floodplain cities.

I forgot to move the resourse files from the folders that were included with the download and started playing without any resourses - except the ones that were where the names were. When I tried to build on them, I didn't get the resourse so I went back and read the instructions again ( if all else fails - read the directions!) and moved the resourses files and the new resourses that I could access came up and the old ones that I couldn't access showed up as those names - I think la mancha was gems, and I can't recall what the others were - I hope it helps
:)

As my map attests, the Zulus are the runt of the continental litter in my game.

Moonsinger, I have 117g + 20gpt at 1000BC. Unlike your financial situation, it's not enough to stay even through the Middle Ages - I'll have to conduct a few wars to catch up more quickly. I intended to war, anyway, but the point I'm making is that you are playing well enough to have the option of remaining peaceful. I also didn't seal off the NE strait, but was lucky to fill up almost all of the territory ahead of the English and Kelts. They weren't fighting, so I don't know what they were doing.

Drewshark, I paid tribute to the Kelts and then France, and neither came back.

Tarquin, you are playing so well that advice seems uncalled for, but... you don't need THAT much defense! The AI has so much more production than you that you basically can't afford such a luxury. Since you're already behind in tech, in the Middle Ages you should focus on both building markets in republic to raise the cash to buy your way back into a broker position in the tech race... and probably beat up somebody so they'll give you some techs for free. Your overall goal should probably be to position yourself for a late charge at the ToE.

Rocknoats, congratulations on the GL. I didn't try for it this game, but you're right, the cattle made a great spot for building it. Now how did you get so much gpt from the AI in the ancient era? I can never get a gpt deal in this era - they usually research to the wall in this period.

Zwingli, I thought of building two factories as well, but didn't bother because expansion was going so well. I wonder why you didn't end up with more cities? Your continental war pits Europe against the rest, which is pretty fun. Good work getting yourself out of your jam with the Ottomans.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f

This is my position as of the end of QSC period.
2 settlers
9 natural workers
10 imported workers
15 regular warriors

12 cities
3 barracks
3 temples
1 granary

I shot myself in the foot big time for the QSC, as by moving my capital I won't get credit for Polytheism, Currency, Literature and Construction. A double 40-turn gambit hits turn 81 with the QSC being 80 turns. :mad:


4000 BC to 975 BC is the period of quite expansion during the ancient age. Not much of significance occurs during this era outside of the amazement that I have keep up with tech without a problem.

750 BC marks an unexpectedly early Republic, when tech backwards India gets it. I have to give up my 4 tech lead on him, but it is well worth it to get the lower corruption and extra revenue. This will greatly speed up getting the fp on-line. I do sell Republic for a couple of the Civs that decent amount of cash. A courthouse is rushing shortly after in Pamplona so that work on the fp can begin.
Note: I didn't have middle age tech yet.

My awesome start comes down to the 2 40-turn gambits and a 3rd great trading round:
2110 BC - It isn't a monopoly, but I still make out nicely with writing. I give France Writing, Contact England and $25 and get Contact Ottomans, Contact India and Mysticism. A 40-turn gambit begins on polytheism. I sell India writing, contact England and $13 and get Bronze Working and Warrior Code. I sell the Ottoman writing and get Masonry and $25. I sell England writing and get Iron Working and $15. We give the Ottoman contact England and $105 and get Horseback riding ($40 discount).
I wind up getting the 2 remaining contacts, Mysticism, bronze working, warrior code, masonry, iron working and horseback riding for a net cost of ~$80.

1650 BC - Time for what I hope will be a nice multiple trade. I buy Code of Laws from India for Horseback Riding, $72 and $4/turn. I sell Code of Laws to the Celts for Math and $6. I know it favors the Ottomans, but I sell him Code of Laws for Philosophy. I sell Math to India for $85. At this point Horseback riding doesn't have much value, so I sell it to France for $36. In the end I got 3 techs for $25.

975 BC - The 40-turn gambit for Polytheism completes and I get Construction (via monopoly price), Currency, Literature and ~$220.


For those curious how I handle the food situations.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LAK-319.jpg

I let Madrid become a 5-turn settler factory with 2 irrigated cows.
I avoid any possible rounds of killer disease by letter Barcelona work the flood plains wheat to build workers every few turns. Barcelona has done wonders for getting a decent size worker force going.



:confused: Are we sure this is a deity game? I usually have problems in the ancient age, but I kept tech parity without any problems. I managed to buy a huge number of imported workers, and I am not last in score. My city count is better then several civs. The FP may be hand build in the BC time frame. I know deity can pull a surprise at any time, but so far this one feels like a blow out!

What I can't believe is that I haven't had a single demand so far. Was the play nicely switch set on for the AI?

Did anyone have any flood plain disease? I didn't have any (through 975BC). I suspect cracker turned it off, in order to eliminate the random variable (or just to help us out). I also didn't have any demands by the AI, but other players have certainly reported them, but perhaps that depends significantly on playing style.

As for, "Are we sure this is a deity game?" certainly cracker made it one of the easiest deity games ever, by giving us lots of space and crowding the AIs together, by turning off barbarians, by giving us great bonus resources at start. I'm perhaps a bit disappointed that it's so easy, but I can understand how it makes sense for GOTM. I'll be more likely to play Predator next time, though (but even that looks like a pretty easy win).

Overrun by french in 10ad. Final score 258. Last month didn't even get to AD, so I feel lucky this month. The RNG gave me a little luck as one spearman was able to hold madrid off from the slew of french horsemen that came through in 1000bc, but it went downhill from there.
I've never won anything higher than monarch. I've got a feeling that this isn't gonna change anytime soon. Hopefully next month won't be emperor or diety :/
I didnt have contact with anyone other than french & english, and never got map making so I didn't get any maps. I settled on the hill but kept getting my growth stunted by disease. As a result I wasn't able to put out a settler until somewhere in the late 2000's bc (2200 or something around there).

So i definitely need to get some practice at higher levels...if i can fix my files...instead of changing the names i moved them to a different folder but the folder disappeared and windows search returns nothing...maybe i'll play again just for practice

Originally posted by drewshark
I made the mistake towards the end of the QSC of not paying tribute to the Zulus. I figured they were way too far away to transport any real problems via attack. I was pretty much right, but they got several other civs at different times to join in. At first is was the Indians, no big deal as they were far away too. The English were second then the Celts right at the end of the Ancient Era. I have been able to hold them off and build up a bit, but no leaders so far and my growth has been affected. A quick question for those that payed tribute, when was it you paid and did they come back for more quickly or did they declare war anyway?

Oh, I paid tribute, but this excerpt from my timeline (edited since its a little out of the spoiler limit)shows how I paid them back:

130 BC: [edited tech] discovered! Not a lot to do with it, so I trade it to Joan for [edited tech], 39 gold and a War Alliance versus Shaka. Then I trade [edited tech] to the Celts for a War Alliance versus Shaka. Then I gave Monarchy to England for 9 gold and a War Alliance versus Shaka. Eat that you bugger! Now my pals are all broke and quarreling. Just like Moonsinger taught me. [edited tech]@40.

........
I did this time and time again to Shaka and he only managed to get a lone impi to my territory. But to his credit, he held off 6-1 odds, taking all of Gandhi's lands and chunks of others. He will get his comeupance in due time however.

Open Class 1.14f
What kind of slack-jawed yo-yo would consider only having 4 military units to defend his thirteen city empire at diety level ? (circa. 1000 BC)
Me! That's who. ( And possibly Neville Chamberlain, but I don't think he plays civ).
Will this empire of pot smoking, laid back spanish hippies be able to cope with Zulu negativity and bring about a summer of love in Gotm 20 ?
Find out ! In the next instalment of " Spanish Hippies - Where has the Love Gone at Diety? "


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/GoTM_20insert.jpg

Open http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f.

Hi, semi-new to GOTM...

My first move was worker S into the floodplains, then Settler NE up the hill. I didn't plan to research at all, really, during the Ancient Era, so a delay of 1 or 2 turns to find the premium start was ok for my plan. Settled Madrid (3950 BC) on the hill, after seeing 2 cattle within corona distance. Moved my worker to irrigate the wheat.

I expected a much cramper start, I settled my next two cities ICS style: Barcelona (3000) next to the irrigated wheat, moved my labors in Madrid to the Cattles and forest exclusively to avoid desease, and founded Seville (2550) on the coast hill working forest exclusively. I had 2 Settler factories and warrior factory going nicely but started to get worried about the lack of contact at this point. I didn't build granaries 'til quite late in this Era as settlers are coming as fast as I can explore and secure anyway.

The extra free space turned out to be really nice for the open class - I only ever saw squid barbs - and the region was loaded with bonuses. However, Predators must have been pulling there hair out with Raging Barbs, :cry: , must have been scary.

I like to warmonger, but Diety is tough for me, so I played the trader throughout the first era. I used the extra warriors Seville made for barb protection (not needed) for scouting. I beelined my Settlers for the luxes and strats, planning on my low corruption civ to help with cities not too close, and my religious trait to keep me from assimilation. I actually thought I could maybe get some flips my way. What a lark, anyway, more on that next week :eek: .

Like elsewhere the Zulus were monsters in my game; I roaded to France and counted on them to provide the rest of the route to the Zulu and got an early lux for lux trade with Shaka. I likewise traded my way to Polite with everyone on my continent, within a few turns of meeting them. I had barely any military to speak of all Era and was pumping People, Culture and some MPs, but not much else.

I stayed comletely out of the Ottoman Purge in my game. Oh did I mention? They went from almost as big as the Zulu to nil in about 15 turns. Seems like the Zulu went nuts and signed Alliances with everyone except me (I said no) to destroy the Turks. The Zulu must have Leadered as they built the Pyramids in 1910 BC.

After the Ottomans were out, EVERYONE attacked England, at the request of the Zulu again (I said no again), although the Britons proved much tougher. Thing is, with those Tundra starts and Diety AI bonuses, the English must have been producing huge numbers of spear and archer; probably pop-rushing their size 2 cities a lot too.

The Colossus was built by an non-continental Civ in 1125 BC. England Leadered too in the Ancient, I gather, as they built the Lighthouse in 850 BC; even for a Diety AI they couldn't have bricked it with all their warfare, I don't think. Having everyone at war slowed the tech race waaaaay down, which suited me fine on my own quest for expansion.

1000 BC Stats: 13 Cities, 5 Temples, 24 wars, 5 native workers, 1 Settler, All tech 'cept Construction, Currency+Govs, all continental contacts and full continental map; 2 lux roaded, 2 more plus both Ancient strats under Control. My gross GPT was +26 at this point, with a last place score of 371, however I am looking pretty respectable on the Power Chart and am only 1 tech behind.

I pop rushed liberally at the end of the Ancient era, I had 16 cities, 10 temples, 5 granaries, 1 barracks, full mps and plenty of lux/strats and was halfway thru Republic (my first research) at the turn of the Era in 550 BC. Since the only Scientific Civ (met so far) was eating dirt I was EVEN with everyone else (well most had Monarchy, but I didn't want that anyway); rather slow start I thought for the Diety AI, but I was happy :) . I had moved up to 5th place with 574 points.

I have RoPs with France, England and India and an embassy with the Celts too. France and India were actually Gracious for a few turns in the ancient Era. I have had zero requests for tribute nor been in any real danger, yet. The Turks died Politely to me too as I got to trade them Iron and Horse as their empire crumbled.

Not a bad start, my best on diety in months heh, but was so expecting a pasting I've played each turn painstakingly careful so far :lol: . I QSCed 'til things got too hectic around 2000 BC, but I am going to try and get through it next GOTM (hopefully not Diety again, hehe). I learned a lot from what I did this time, it's a really worthwhile exorcise.

BTW, can someone tell me where to find the screenshots after I hit Print Screen? They don't seem to be anywhere in my Civ folders. I thought this always went to the program folder it was shot in? My MMORGs all do, but I don't use the button much....

Conquest game - This is my first game of the month, and so far I am finding it to be an enjoyable process. I like many others decided to brave the deity game based upon using the conquest class advantages.
4000 B.C. - Used the treasure chests to explore the terrain based upon the advice of Sirpleib. Soon after, I founded one city on the hill to the NE and the other city on the incense to the SW.
I noticed that the treasure chests were counting against my unit total, so I used two chests to hurry a granary in Madrid and the third to hurry a settler in Barcelona.
After reading the advice of Moonsinger and others, I decided to not worry about researching tech early and instead buy and trade tech with the other civs. This worked surprisingly well throughout most of the ancient ages.
I like others did not see a barbarian the entire time :)
In my game like many others, the Zulu are strong and in fact wiped out the Ottomans. When the Ottomans were getting weak, I decided to form a military alliance with the Zulu and as a result was able to purchase Mapmaking relatively cheap, which I was then able to use to trade maps for tech and get myself into the middle ages :) Of course, I did not actually do a thing to help against the Ottomans, but Shaka didn't seem to mind.
Thanks Cracker and staff for the Conquest class idea that has convinced me to try this deity level GOTM.

OPEN CLASS: PTW 1.21

I find it amazing that so many players are getting 10 - 15 cities at 1000BC on Deity level. The level of play in the GOTM is really amazing. At 210 BC I have 20 cities

I had 10 cities at the magic date. However, I did block the choke points at the NE corner of the continent and therefore managed to develop the entire area of the continent north of the French, except for one town that the English founded by Galley.

I also had almost the entire continent in view by 1000 BC, except for some minor pieces that I could imagine. However, I was well behind the Zulus and Ottomans in the tech race. Was on par with most of the rest.

Went into the Middle Ages at 210 BC after the French and Ottomans declared war on me. Made favorable peace with both, but then the Zulus captured all of the remaining French cities but one. I had intended to give all of my gpt to the French just before they were completely eliminated by the Zulus. I was just about to do it when the Zulus made peace with them and let them keep their last city. I was lucky I delayed or I would have been paying the French about 45 gpt!!

Have lost 4 Galleys and have the New World in sight, but can't reach it.

I only ran into one Pictish Warrior the entire game.

Thanks, Cracker, for such a favorable start.

Originally posted by baronzilch
Open http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f.

BTW, can someone tell me where to find the screenshots after I hit Print Screen? They don't seem to be anywhere in my Civ folders. I thought this always went to the program folder it was shot in? My MMORGs all do, but I don't use the button much....

The screen print is on your clipboard. Open Word or Photoshop or whatever program you want to save the image in and press Ctrl+V. That will paste the image.

runifoc

Here is my map at 1000 BC and at 210 BC:

Originally posted by runifoc
The screen print is on your clipboard. Open Word or Photoshop or whatever program you want to save the image in and press Ctrl+V. That will paste the image.

runifoc

I guess the MMORGs have Print Screen remapped for their use, as I say in most, I hit the button and a .bmp shows up in the root game folder; anyway, I saved the game where I wanted shots so I'll edit some in later, thanks very much for the info.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Open.jpg
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.21f

After reading the pregame thread and deciding for myself that incense and wheat were probably there, I decided NOT to go onto the hill and waste a worker turn. Since wheat was likely the starting point I sent the worker east where he would uncover much of the area but still be able to road next turn. Seeing what was uncovered (including the speculated wheat) I decided to settle in place. This of course pointed out the cow and made me think maybe the hill would have been better. Time will tell.

4000BC Madrid founded in place, start writing at min.

3800BC First of 2 warriors starts exploring.

3100BC Madrid produces first settler.

3000BC Meet France. Trade Wheel for Masonry and 5g.

2950BC Found Barcelona next to cows. This will become a 4 turn settler factory.

2850BC Meet Celts just accross land bridge. They have Bronze, Potter, Warrior and Mysticism and need Masonry and Wheel. I am 1 turn from contact with Orange civ, so I wait on trade.

2800BC Meet England. They have all that Celts had and need Masonry. Celts don't need ANYTHING now. Should have traded last turn. Trade Masonry and 42g for Pottery, Bronze.

2550BC First lux, incense hooked up. French start Oracle.

2390BC Celts start Oracle.

2350BC Madrid produces 2nd settler.

2310BC Spot a french border just below dyes, so decide to grab dyes with this settler. Also, just noticed we have contact with Zulu, meaning someone beat us to Writing (by 4 turns). Sure enough, it's the Zulus. Zulu and Celts have Math also. Everyone but England has Iron. Time for some trading:

Buy Math from Celts for 140g + 5gpt.
Buy Iron Working from France for Math, 2g + 2gpt. Trade IW for WC, g0g from England.
Trade Math for Mysticism and 26g from England (was hoping they'd have Horseback Riding).

Only techs we don't have are Writing and Horseback. Going to finish Writing since I can't afford to buy it, and it's only 4 turns away.

2270BC Found Seville by just north of Dyes.

2230BC Celts settle Verulamium on our side of the land bridge. Buy Celtic for 84g, 2gpt.

2190BC Barcelona finishes granary, starts settler. Celts got writing just before I finished it.

2150BC Writing done, start Construction at min. Trade Writing for Ottomans, Indians, and 28g from France. Trade England for 40g from Ottomans. I had been using an entertainer in Barcelona due to lack of gold, now I can go negative and bump lux up to spped settler.

1990BC Barcelona produces settler, starts another and will continue producing settlers.

1870BC Found Toledo on horses to the SE.

1790BC Ottoman spear/warrior stack spotted up around Verulamium, heading south. They later turn out to be heading south and take out a NE french city on the coast.

1750BC Accidentally let Seville go into disorder (my only disorder for the whole QSC period).

1725BC Found Santiago.

1675BC #@$#%#!@$ Notice Zulu have Construction. :p Switch to Currency at min. Switch Madrid and Seville to settlers. Decide to try for Literature instead of Curency, and to rush for it at max speed. I'm in deficit but with gpt deals ending soon I should make it.

1600BC Found Murcia. Glad I switched, as France has Currency, and appears to have traded to Zulu for Construction.

1575BC Zulu have Philosophy.

1525BC India has Map Making, and no one else does. Trade my world to them for territory and 61g. Then realize I should have stopped to analyze the situation first. I really need to buy Map Making so I can do map trades and catch up. But of course I have nothing to trade. India needs Currency, so lets start there. Set Sci and Lux to 0%.

Buy Currency from France for 17gpt + 96g.
Trade Currency for Horseback + 4g from Ottomans.
Sell HB to England for 77g.
Shuffle some citizens (MM gold) so I can buy Map Making from India for (ready for this?) HB, Currency, maps, 8gpt and 79g.

Nearly wiped me out. Now to get some of this money back.

Trade MM, world for World, 7gpt, 140g from France.
Trade Currency, MM, for Construction, World, 9g from Celts.
Trade Worlds with Ottomans.
Trade Territory for England's World.
Trade MM, World for Philosophy, world, 18g from Zulu.
Trade Philosophy for World and 79g from India.
Trade Philosophy to France for 77g.

Now everyone is bankrupt except France, who while at 0g has a net income from me of 10gpt, and India has 8gpt from me. So for a cost of 18gpt I have acquired Currency, Map Making, Construction, Philosophy, Horseback Riding, about 290 gold and the entire world map of my starting continent. With Science cranked back to 100%, I can run a 19gpt deficit and still get Literature in 11 turns, hopefully before anyone else so I can use it to trade for Code of Laws.

NOTE: I'd like to thank Moonsinger for the thread that inspired the above game of catchup.

1500BC Found Valencia on hill by SW iron.

1475BC Found Ciudad de la Luna on the coast near ivory. Trade England world map for a worker.

1425BC Trade Construction for Code of Laws and world from India.

1400BC Found Zaragoza in Andalusia. Trade Philosophy + 5g for Worker (Slave3) from England.

1350BC Found Pamplona by furs. Buy French worker (Slave4) for World + 59g.

1325BC Trade Code of Laws for Worker (Slave5), 5g and world from England.

1275BC Finish Literature, sci to 0, will buy Poly. Nobody has anything to trade for Lit except Zulu, and they only have 245 gold. Hold it for now.

1250BC Found Aldea de Ribannah. Trade Code of Laws for Worker (Slave6), 7g and world from Ottomans. Start Republic at 10%. (I know, wasted last turn.)

1225BC Found Casa del Bamrapido on coast next to destroyed French city. (They are or were at war with Ottomans). Zulu have more money than they'll give for Literature, so I think it's time to sell. I'll just have to pay a lot for polytheism I guess. Trade Literature for 212g and 4gpt from Zulu.

1200BC India has Literature now, they and Zulu start Great Library. Sell Lit to France for world and 79g. Would rather see France get GL if possible. Time to get working on a military methinks.

1175BC Build embassies in France, Celts and Zulu. Zulu are 18 turns from GL, France didn't start it. From the looks of the cities building it, Zulu is a shoe-in.

1150BC Found Vitoria on east coast near Verulamium. First galley built, start exploring along west coast. Trade Lit for world and 4g from Ottomans, still annoyed :p (Everyone else is polite believe it or not).

1125BC One day out and already our new captain spies something big coming towards him.

http://users.rcn.com/rfarver/civ3/GOTM20quid0.jpg

1100BC Blah, forgot to move off the forest in Barcelona. added an extra turn to the current settler.

1050BC Found Sandtander. Zulu have Republic, and it is EXPENSIVE. 18gpt + 384 is insulting. Turn science to 0, I'll try to buy Republic and trade it for Poly? Celts have 2 settlers in my area. Captain is hightailing it north to avoid squid.

http://users.rcn.com/rfarver/civ3/GOTM20quid1.jpg

1025BC First barracks built in seville, iron hooked up, time to make some military.

1000BC Found Asturias near Verulamium (I've gottem surrounded!). Lots of temples in progress to fill in area and maybe flip some Celtic cities. (They are headed into my trap.) Galley is now stuck between 2 squids, so makes a run for the ocean. Since he's going to die anyway, may as well try for contact accross the water. Hmm, looks like I should have been going for Polytheism on my own. I really need to learn to play at this level better. Sci 100 Poly.

http://users.rcn.com/rfarver/civ3/GOTM20quid2.jpg

The squids called for backup! Unfortunately, the captain and crew were never heard from again.

http://users.rcn.com/rfarver/civ3/GOTM20quid3.jpg

Ok, so at the end of the QSC period I'm not doing too bad. I've got:

15 cities
2 granaries
2 temples
1 barracks
1 settler
6 workers
6 slaves
1 galley (not for long from the looks of things :D)
15 warriors
31 citizens

And here's my score and minimap (centered the continent to see it easier).

http://users.rcn.com/rfarver/civ3/GOTM20qsc.jpg

I definately have room for improvement. Techs seem to be my biggest problem area, like knowing which to go after and which to buy. I see now that republic would have been good to get on my own at 40 turns just because its so darn expensive. I did end up buying Polytheism from India in 925BC (don't remember what I paid) and entered the middle ages.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/TreasureSurrender.gif

I haven't seen anyone comment on how right the pixel readers were! I was lol when I saw the incense and wheat.

I chose to move the chests S, NE & W before moving the settlers with both workers building a road in the start position. I set up Madrid S and Barcelona NE. I used my first chest to build a warrior in Madrid and the other two chests to accelerate a temple in Barcelona.

In every city after those two, I built ID followed by temple. I researched potty in 16t, then switched to minimum for myst & poly.

I linked to incense in 3700BC, furs in 2190BC, dyes in 2030BC, and ivory in 1050BC. I was ranked 1st in happiness for the entire QSC. Spain was impressed by Otto while everyone else was impressed by, or in awe of, Spain.

1650BC seems to be the 1st big year for trades. I traded WM+6gpt+161g to France for MM; WM to Kelts for TM+6g; 3gpt+36g to France for Zulu; WM+4gpt to Zulu for Otto+math; WM+1gpt to Zulu for TM+Ind+12g; WM+6g to Otto for TM; & 10g to France for TM. World ranking: Otto 548, Spn 364, Zulu 341, Kelt 337, Ind 310, Eng 298, Fr 233.

1150BC I traded poly to France for curr+74g; curr to Eng for TM+phil+lit+7g; poly to Otto for TM+HBR+12g; curr to Kelts for TM+CoL+2g; WM to France for WM. World ranking: Otto 805, Spn 533, Kelt 511, Zulu 487, Ind 452, Eng 421, Fr 367.

1000BC I traded poly to Kelts for WM+BW+14g; poly to Eng for WM+IW+18g+wrkr; WM+10gpt+267g to France for constr. World ranking Otto 892, Spn 601, Kelt 560, Zulu 526, Ind 494, Eng 462, Fr 412.

At end of QSC I have 15 cities, 8 temples, 6 wrkrs, 1 eqwrkr, 2 warriors, 2 chariots, & 11 ID; just 21 units while permitted 60. I had 54g and was just starting feudalism. I stayed out of the jungle and never saw a barb.

runifoc
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/civ3.jpg v1.29f

I'm sorry Txurce, but I think that I can't really go into how I got the money 'cause it will stray from the constraints of this thread. I will just say this is probably the luckiest game I've had yet. BTW I'm playing PTW on Open level and I'm LOVIN' it Jerry!!!:D

Another great job Cracker!:goodjob:

[B]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/TreasureSurrender.gif

I forgot to mention that I blocked the Keltic bridge in 2390BC. Then I made a bad assumption about the shape of the landmass. I did not block the English bridge until 1475BC. Fortunately, they did not send any settlers across it.

Both France & England delivered settlers via galley into what I considered my territory. Rouen is 14 squares closer to Madrid than Paris; so, at size 4 they petitioned to join the Spanish monarchy. I granted their request.

Liverpool is 2 squares closer to London than Madrid plus they built a harbor. As a result, they are stubbornly ignoring the caroling of our cathedral bells.

runifoc
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/civ3.jpg v1.29f

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.21

As you can see I decided to go Predator :)

I had a great start but things got tougher as the game progressed.

I moved the worker NE as planned, saw the cattle and cheered! Moved the settler to the hills. Founded Madrid there and started researching Pottery. I built warrior, warrior, warrior, granary, settler. The first settler was produced in 2710BC. Madrid produced another every four turns after that.

The first settler went south to build a worker factory using the wheat.

The barbarians were the worst I've encountered in a long time. More like "homicidal maniacs" than "raging" :) I'd already had 13 barbarians visit my lands by 2030! I'm happy with how I dealt with them but they sure did hurt. I lost much time dancing with them (settlers and workers running away.) By 1000BC my total losses to barbs were my second worker, two warriors, ransacked for gold five times, once for a citizen, and once for an almost finished spearman.

Still, at 1000BC I had:
14 towns
2 settlers
9 native workers, 2 foreign workers
4 warriors, 2 spearmen
3 temples, 1 barracks, 1 granary

I have a Forbidden Palace build well started but it won't be useful for a Palace jump the way things are going. More likely I'll eventually move the Palace with a leader. The FP build isn't a bad thing though, it is in a more central location than the Palace.

By 1000BC I'd lost seven suicide galleys. My shipwrights seem a bit incompetent. Five galleys sank on their first turn at sea, the other two sank on their second. And that's all I'll say about my attempts to contact remote Civs in this thread ;)

Just before I entered the Middle Ages there was a massive barbarian uprising at one camp in my NW region. Before the swarm arrived I used most of my cash to buy embassies, then gave the rest to England in the hope of getting it back later. The barbs struck two of my fringe towns but did minimal damage, destroying just a bit of recently started construction.

I sent two warriors exploring early on. They met France, Ottomans, Zulu, India, Celts, and England in that order.

I researched Pottery first to make sure I'd get it - I really wanted Madrid as a settler factory asap, didn't want to count on meeting someone and trading. After learning Pottery it was too late to start on Writing so I waited for a while, learning nothing. By 2110BC three rivals knew Writing so I bought it and then traded around to to get nearly caught up in tech. I decided to gamble on 40 turn Polytheism from that date though it was a bit late to start. In 1600BC four rivals knew Map Making - I bought it from one and did some trading to get mostly caught up again. I was beaten to Polytheism by 8 turns but by the time I learned it in 975BC there were still some Civs who didn't know it. I managed to trade for all other required Ancient techs and entered the Middle Ages.

The strange signs on the grass have me puzzled. I have no idea what they mean.

At the end of the Middle Ages there has been no war in my world as far as I know. But it certainly won't be long before something starts :)

The Zulu are remarkably strong in my game. Here's how the power graph looked when I'd met all the local Civs in 2190:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/sirplebg20-1a.jpg

The other Civs haven't changed their positions significantly since that date. I'm moving up though!

Originally posted by drewshark
A quick question for those that payed tribute, when was it you paid and did they come back for more quickly or did they declare war anyway?
I've only had two demands for tribute so far in this game, once from England, once from France. I paid both.

I do not know if there is an absolute rule about tribute. But my experience has been that after I pay tribute I'm safe from that Civ for a fair while. (20 turns seems likely, I haven't recorded it to check.) Eventually they'll come back for more. But I don't remember ever having a Civ demand tribute and then declare war soon after or even demand tribute again soon after.

[Edit: I imagine that alliances would be an exception to this. I don't know if I've ever seen a Civ bought into an alliance against me shortly after extorting something. I wouldn't see that as unusual since I've seen that they can almost always be bought if the price is right...]

(PTW 1.21, Open Class)

After much thought, the glorious Isabelle del Cacahuete led her tribe of Mixto d'Español de Nueces up the hill and away from the plains in order to settle. "It'll be safer there" she thought, "... and the view from my palace window will be better".

"Madre de Dios !!" she cried as she crested the hill. "Cows ! On Grass ! On a Lake ! Grass with flecks of Silver ! We settle HERE amigos. Settler factory, here we come !". And as her Spaniards laboured to establish a settlement her last thoughts that evening were "Cows and a lake, eh ? I bet that blasted Brennus will be close at hand, casting covetous eyes over my fine cattle and wanting to hurl my best dinnerware into the pond again like he did to everyone in Game 18."

Well, being on diety and knowing that this would probably be a challenge, Izzy fully expected that there would be hungry neighbours close at hand. "So lets go find them", she decreed. And so a warrior was sent forth to explore. "Which way ?" he called from the city gate as he trudged off. "To the Orient - go and seek out the mysteries of the East" came the reply.

Izzy suspected that the crafty god Crackerus, having a taste for injecting some level of accuracy, would put Spain on the west coast. So east was a logical choice. Off he went, while Spain's feeble scientists struggled to learn how to write.

Soon the reports came in ... "Mountains with gold ... rivers .. hills ... and look - some god with a bizarre sense of humour has written "Anadalucia" in huge pink letters over one expanse of grassland. Why ? Nobody knows. We just hope it doesn't poison the cattle."

Finally, after many years exploring, our warrior reached a coastline. "Where is everybody ?" Izzy demanded. A warriors exploring north had found nothing. One who just started off heading west and south along the coast found nobody. Incense, fish, squids, dyes, jungle, rivers, yes. Lost of those. But no civilizations, no huts, no barbarians, nobody !!! Is this some kind of cruel trick ? Are we really alone ?

But then news from the south and far east. Pink borders, orange borders, and then a green clad archer. "Oh no ! Brennus is next door!" Izzy exclaimed. "But at least I've got Joan and Lizzie for company." A friendly trading session with Lizzie, Joanie and Brennie saw Spain armed with knowledge of Bronze Working and Pottery.

"Great !" Izzy shouted. "Get that Granary built - with no barbarians its Populate or Perish amigos !" And so the rush was on - churn out the Settlers and Workers as quickly as possible.

Those feeble Spanish scientists finally mastered Writing second (or third ?), but in time to sell it to Brennus and Lizzie, and gain contact with the rest of the civilizations on our continent.

"¡Golpéeme inconsciente con un calcetín repleto del flan frío!" Izzy shrieked when suddenly Shaka showed up trying to sell contact with the Ottomen to the Spaniards. We decided to accept, just to keep on good terms with what was obviously a strong and ugly Zulu civilization.

The next few centuries went uneventfully. A horsemen and two warriors, strategically placed, along with a relatively cheap RoP with Brennus, was all that was needed to keep those irritating green and orange settlers from stealing pieces our back yard. Spain feverishly settled on or near of all the luxuries and resources we could find, and connected them all up.

We are lucky that the AI cannot detect silly games like this being played by us humans, otherwise Brennus and Lizzie would have just brushed Spain aside and charged in to claim all that lovely land.

Once we saw a few galleys row past, hotly pursued by fierce looking squids, it was time to invest in Map Making. This we did, having to part with a cart load of gold and our precious world map.

However, this investment was worth it because in 1000 BC it didn't just rain, nor pour, but we nearly drowned in the flood !

At the start of 1000 BC we were ONE LOUSY turn away from Literature (ten turns after those nasty Indians invented it .. grumble grumble ...). We had little gold, and we owed Lizzie gpt for Map Making. We were seven or more technologies behind the Zulus and Ottomans.

Then, our suicide galley SURVIVED ! We contacted civilization XXXXXX !. What to do ? If we did nothing then Shaka would be sure to extort contact from us just as he had tried a few extortions in the past (which, being of sound mind, we submitted to).

Izzy then conducted a feverish session of very inept and amateur trading that Moonsinger would probably laugh at. It left us at the end of 1000 BC with :
* seven new techs (or so)
* entry into the Middle Ages (except for the optional Republic and Monarchy, which NOBODY had researched)
* almost techological leadership,
* contact with everyone,
* maps of the whole known world,
* embassies with everyone,
* a few hundred gold coins
* everyone polite or gracious towards us (after gifting some contacts to save them being extorted from us).

This stunt may even make for a QSC entry (my first) that is one grade above "Pathetic".

Sadly, Spain is starting the Middle Ages with no libraries, marketplaces, aquaducts, or courthouses, because we obtained all these necessary techs in one turn. Our joke of a military is made up of about five warriors, five horsemen and a couple of spears. We have one or two barracks and no harbours. But at least almost every town has a temple.

I suspect that the Spanish Empire of Isabelle del Cacahuete is going to soon be slow roasted, once Shaka or Joan or somebody else realises just how shaky our foundations are.

Ah well, reaching Middle Ages on Diety ... not a bad achievement for this humble Peanut.

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
Ambiorix, how/when did you get Monarchy? Having a better government puts you significantly ahead of me at 975BC, I think.
I got Monarchy in 1000BC. A suicide galley reached new lands. :)
Revolution is just about to begin. Republic is still about 30 turns away, but I hope one of the other civ's finds it sooner.
I got a tremendous boost from that last QSC turn - without it, my game would be far inferior. More about it in the next spoiler.
Regarding your other questions : I had disease once in Sevilla, further south-east, never in Madrid - and they worked the floodplains continually.
Shaka demanded some pocket money once, also in 1000BC before the Big Trading. Funny actually : you give in to their demands and the same turn you take it back, plus all the rest they have, plus their tech, plus their maps. Life at deity can be great ! :D

PS. Once more many thanks to Cracker, SirPleb, Moonsinger and so many others - if I compare my gameplay now with what I was doing beginning of this year, it's like - well, like - uhm... can't find a good metaphor actually. :rolleyes:

Civ3 V1.29 Open

Here is mine.

DEVELOPMENT
Settle on the hill to get all 3 resources. This eventually become a 4 turn warrior+settler combo town (yeap, both every 4 turn) and towards the end of the QSC, switch to a 5turn worker+settler combo town. Got all four Luxury connected by 1150BC. Finish my forbidden Palace on 1025BC, but it looks like I will not use the palace jump anytime soon since I am still not getting hopeless corruption on my outer towns. Still, it is a nice backup in case I have a drought on GL.


TECH

I didn't had as much luck on Tech trading getting only pottery from wheel and my 40 turn writing only trade me Masonary and Mysticism. Luckily the round on Map making trading brings me on par with the tech leaders (which is almost everyone) at the expense of only 7gpt. From then on, I can research as quick as the AI, having build a solid base. In fact, I finish research monarchy by 1100BC (25turns), got into MA and traded for a MA tech.

AI
My game seems very different. Zulu is just another civ. In fact, my game has all the civ being very much balance in power/score.

French and English are weak in Culture and I am very very surprise that I have already surpass them in culture. Did Cracker do anything to them?

AI did not trade when one have construction and the other have currency for 8 turns. This is never seen before in my deity games. Did Cracker turn down the AI to AI trade rate?

Sogut is a super town, netting 3 wonders already in my game.

No demands on me in this game. Guess I grow fast enough given the great starting spot.


OTHERS
I like workers to work my lands so I got 29 native workers + 3 foreign workers by 1000BC. Any awards for that? What is surprising here is that in 1.29, the worker cost was at 28gc instead of the 120gc that I have been seeing in previous GOTM. I wonder if this is intentional.

No FP Disease. Strange. But I got a Jungle Disease.



TIMELINE
4000BC - Worker NE found 2 cattles. Settler move NE.
3950BC - Capital found. Worker north to cattle, research Writing.
3900BC - Worker irrigate
3750BC - Warrior build, move S
3700BC - warrior S, worker finish irrigation, move NE
3650BC - warrior S, worker irrigate second cattle
3550BC - 2nd Warrior build, explore E
3450BC - Worker finish irrigation, move 3 S to irrigate wheat FP
3400BC - 3rd Warrior build, explore E.
3300BC - Meet French, tried to trade Wheel for Masonary but French would not agree, so trade for pottery instead. Build Granary.
3100BC - Worker Finish irriagation, move to BG to mine.
3000BC - 3rd Warrior return to Capital and fortified just in case.
2950BC - Granary builded
2800BC - Capital Size 6. Town will grow before Settler is ready. Build worker instead.
2750BC - Meet English. Nothing to trade.
2710BC - Meet Keitol and India on same turn. Trade Wheel for WC + 4gc. Worker finish mine, move SE to irrigate FP. Warrior block land.
2670BC - Settler completed. Move SE to settle west of 2nd FP wheat to get 2 FP wheat and dye in radius.
2630BC - 4th Warrior from Capital, Fortified as MP.
2510BC - 2nd Settler. Move to settle on Incense to use the FP.
2470BC - 5th Warrior
2350BC - 3rd Settler. Goes 2 NE and settle. WIll build FP for my palace Jump later.
2310BC - 6th Warrior
2270BC - Meet zulu. No trade.
2230BC - 3rd Worker.
2190BC - 4th Settler. Goes to settle on horse position to the NE.
2110BC - Discover writing. Was only able to trade writing + 28gc for Mysticism + Masonary from English. Research Polytheism.
2030BC - 5th Settler. Settle at the end of the FP (SE of mountain) to the south.
1870BC - 6th Settler. Goes to the river to the north.
1725BC - 7th/8th Settler. Goes for Wheat near Fur and South to cover edge of Jungle.
MAP Making Trading Round. Net all 2nd level Tech + Polytheism, WM and 14gc at a cost of 7gpt. Research change to Monarchy full blast.
1650BC - 1st Temple builded. Ottoman finish Pyramid.
1625BC - 9th Settler
1600BC - 10th Settler goes for Ivory.
1550BC - Dye connected (2nd Luxury after Incense)
1500BC - 11th Settler
1375BC - 12th Settler
1350BC - Zulu discover CoL. Trade with Zulu for WM + Maths + Polytheism + 161gc and then resell it for Philo + 68gc.
1250BC - 13th Settler. 1st Galley build. sucide fails for next 6 galley.
1150BC - Fur Link up (4th Luxury)
1100Bc - Monarchy discovered. Switch government on same turn.
Buy Construction at 24gpt and 89gc.
Trade Currency and give it to most AIs. All goes MA.
Trade monarchy + 26gpt + 4gc for a MA tech. Give everyone these tech to speed up research.
1025BC - Forbidden Palace builed.

Result at 1000BC
Total Pop 52 (excluding settler and workers)
Town 15
Worker 29
Warrior 11
Horseman 3
Galley 1
Tech All AA tech except Lit and Replubic and have 1 MA Tech.
Embassy 2
Luxuries 4
Granary 1
Temple 4
FP builded
129gc
159 land area.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Open.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/civ3.jpg v1.29f

I settle where I stand, and begin a no-granary settler flood. This is a bit risky… a farmer strat on diety, however, you gotta take chances right?

Research: writing at minimum science.
Worker heads towards wheat floodplains, roading and irrigating the square directly E first. After irrigating and roading the wheat floodplains, she then mines the BG to the E of the hill.

Important dates:
Madrid: settler completed in 3150
Barcelona: founded 3000 3 spaces NE of Madrid
Madrid: worker completed in 2950. This worker heads N and E to improve the cattle squares.
2 warriors copleted, one in each city, in 2750
Madrid: Completes settler in 2550
Found Seville near dyes and wheat Flood plain in 2430
Finally hook up the incense in 2390
Barcelona: completes settler in 2310
Madrid: completes settler in 2230
Complete writing in 2150, begin Code of Laws – I really should have been concentrating a little more on exploring. Maybe 2 exploring warriors would have allowed me to make some trades here.
Barcelona completes warrior in 2110
Found Toledo near La Mancha, claiming the horses.
Madrid completes warrior in 2070
Found Santiago claiming the wheat grassland to the S in 1990
Meet the French in 1870. They have all the techs that I can see, but I am only 2 cities behind.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/dredd_qsc20_1870bc1.jpg

Status: 5 cities, 2 settlers in 2 turns, 3 workers, 3 warriors.

Madrid completes another settler in 1830, and I begin building temples.
Meet the English in 1830
Barcelona completes settler in 1790

From here, I build some temples and continue to aggressivally expand.
Meet the Keltoi in 1550.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/dredd_qsc20_1550bc1.jpg

Mapmaking has been discovered, so it is time to see what I can get for my maps and my 500gp

French: I trade my WM and 383gp for contacts with the Ottomans, Zulu and Indians. Hopefully I will be able to sell them a luxury and get my cash back.
Indians: I trade my WM and 77gp for Pottery and Bronze Working.
Zulus: I trade my WM and 39gp for Warrior Code.
Ottomans I trade my WM and 6gpt :( for Iron working.
Keltoi: I trade my WM for their territory map.
Enland: I trade my WM for 2 gold and their TM.

All up, I am way behind with no chance of ever catching up. But thats diety.

So much for a builders game...

I switch research from Code of laws to Mapmaking at its maximum without me losing too much cash