What if you play as England you this coverd North America and set colonies over time those colonies become cities and then they event try to be independent because there is to much corruption, it is too far away from the motherland, unatended civil disorder and more, any way if you lose the war they become a independent nation in this case the US.

Another thing shouldn't barbarians being able to biuld cities? let say you are the Romans, you only have one city next to you is a barbarian city named Napoli. ( i don't know if this really happen or not just making an example)

Thank Baron Rakkan for the idea

What if you have a massive civil disorder and you do nothing about it and some turns you have in your hands a Civil War if you lose the war they become a independent nation or they may even try to overthrow you and your goverment.

It'll be interesting if you best units become unloyal to you and they act as some sort of spies loyal to another nation and they may event try to corrupt other units or even cities and when in war they just flip their nationality

any suggestions??

too complicated to be practical for an X but your idea is not new. It's been suggested by several other people, myself included, over the past few years.

Do you think it could be done for this expansion? or maybe Civ. 4?

The concept of granting a group of regions indepedence is that it's so hard to do. Civil disorder is easy to keep under control, and it would probably turn out to be either really predictable or they would come at the weirdest times without the slighest provocation. Bottom line: Cool idea, realy hard to make it work. The only thing that they should include is an option to grant a group of cities independence on your own will, but who'd want to do that?

I certanly hope this could be added in civ4 or civ5

They have something like lhis in a game called Europa Universalis, but It would probably be too difficult to make in a civ game, because its a random world that doesent hve specific regions set like our world is.

In Civ2, you could "split" a civilization.

I always liked this idea. Entire groups of cities revolt and become a new civ.

I'm sure it could be done in Civ3. ;)

If they added the ability to create provences then it wouldnt be to hard to impliment some sort of civil war element into the game. If a region(s) have massive civil disorder that goes uncheked for several turns then the region(s) would declare independence and a civil war wuold ensue

I dont think it would add anything "good" to the game really. It would be just another thing for people to gripe about, like culture flipping. ("All my cities were really happy and half of them STILL broke away and formed another civ! WAAAAAAAAH!")

THAT might be a good idea to have civil wars, but id have it so that they would have the same civ, possibly same leaderhead, just different name. A the rebels and the loyalists cant make peace, its either contiuous war or full annexation by either side. and make different nation names too depending upon the country and what other parts of the actuall kingdom were called.
ex: Americans-Confederates
Germans-Prussians
French-Burgundians
Greeks-Macedonians

even if it wasnrt actually a civil wart between them, using the names would have to be put in, i dont want 2 countries of exact same names.

i like that idea, and the same with the provinces thing, how abou if a city continually goes into civil disorder, it could sort of act like a barbarian tribe and sent out fighters? exept the fighters would actually be hard? great idea though:goodjob:

they would regular fighters, sat warriors and swordsmen for ancient era, while gradually going up to Guerilla's and Infantry.

wow these are great ideas. I think that civ 4 should be designed by the fans. (we seem to be doing a better job than firaxis a comming up with ideas).

Although real splits would be too much for an expansion pack, this ought to be relatively easy to implement:

Whenever you invoke a revolution the units inside your capital (if any) are disbanded and there's a massive barbarian uprising around your capital. They represent the loyal troops of the old regime (the old you :)) and your job as the revolutionary leader (the you you :)) is to defeat them so they can be properly tried, put before a wall and shot like they deserve. :)

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

lol!

yeah, but will there be a civ4?

i like that idea, and the same with the provinces thing, how abou if a city continually goes into civil disorder, it could sort of act like a barbarian tribe and sent out fighters? exept the fighters would actually be hard? great idea though
by casual_moose[QUOTE]

you mean like terrorists? Maybe if a city had huge amounts of curruption it insted of producing normal units if will produce terrorists, they will look like any other unit, you can attack them so can they with you and they will also be detroying terrain improvements, killing you workers. them if this whose unattended a neighboor city will join them and so on like a cancer. When this happens you better do something or you will have a war within your own country, they will not try to become independent, nor overtrhow your gov, but sure they will be a pain in the neck

Originally posted by Sarevok
yeah, but will there be a civ4?
As long as people will spend money to buy it. ;)

Just as there is culture flip, if there is a spot for an additional civ, how about if cities fully corrupt are in disorder for 3 turns in a row, they will break away. They will produce an army (slightly weaker than the loyalist army) and try to take the remaining loyal cities that are fully corrupt and near them as well.

Maybe expelling units from a city when a culture flip would be cool too.

Instead of forming a new army the units al ready in the city and its surrouning areas should flip.

it would be nice if under espionage you could arrange a coup...

That would make things veery interesting.

An spy that tell you if any of you cities if going to revolt or something, so you could do something about it

Arranging a coup would be pretty cool, but it would have to cost a LOT, or else it would be way to unbalancing.

I LIKE THIS IDEA VERY MUCH EddyG17


THAT IS SIMPLY COOL

I was wondering why they did not include the barbarian's idea in Civ2 where they can have their own cities and have a leader. I think that was a great idea.

Maybe this had been suggested long ago, but i think putting a babarian tribe in each region from start will be nice. More challenging where their attitude should be the same to all race. Maybe races starting in same region will have a better relationship with the babarians and all races can have diplomatic options to all the babarians in the world. I think this is applicable for Huge world map.

Babarians start with settlers as well and maybe some slower production so that they will not become as strong as another rival race :)

Anyway just my puny opinion.

I remember way-back when, in the era of square units, (nostalgia, anyone) when you captured a large, rival civy's capital, sometimes a revolt would take place and a new civy would emerge from half of the rival's cities.

I miss this:(

I will love if once you have capture the 80% of you enemy's cities you can either annex the nation or install a pupet nation if they agree if not finish capturing their units. If they aggree to be your pupet nation they will keep their color, you will be able to build units using their cities and even biuld their UU. BUT they will still nationality will remain (like capture workers). if you become weak after a war or something and the pupet nation is strong than you they may rebell, their goa,l to become free. I cant think of any benefits for installing a pupet nation but sure it will be add alot of fun to the game

Originally posted by Junzi Nicuzn
I remember way-back when, in the era of square units, (nostalgia, anyone) when you captured a large, rival civy's capital, sometimes a revolt would take place and a new civy would emerge from half of the rival's cities.

I miss this:(
Yeah, that's what I meant about "splitting" civs.

I would like to see this come back.

Originally posted by joespaniel
Yeah, that's what I meant about "splitting" civs.

I would like to see this come back.

It always gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling when the Romagazines (a custom civy I've used since Civ I) forced a culture superior to mine to split.

:love: I remember my first time when the Romagazines destroyed London, and then the Americans arrived (art imitating life...well, almost)

First time I captured an enemy capitol in Civ3, I was very disapointed when nothing happened. I had purposely carved a swath right through the center of the enemy empire too. No split. Bah.

I KNOW. My very first CivIII game that was the first thing I tried to do. I got so disappointed when nothing happened I tried to destroy my rival's (France) entire civy then. Of course this was my first time, and I got creamed because of it. :cry:

Its kind of illogical really. Why would a country decide to split up right when they need to stick together the most? If someone invaded Washington D.C., I dont see us splitting into 2 separate countries to fight the war. I see everyone banding together to kick some ass. Maybe thats just me. :(

Anyway i think that the idea of new civ arrival as a result of civil war is R E A L L Y T H E G R E A T ! ! !

well done RX2000, I don't see why would they slip up insted of stick together either. In the other hand i think my idea of a pupet nation if much more interesting

Originally posted by RX2000
Its kind of illogical really. Why would a country decide to split up right when they need to stick together the most? If someone invaded Washington D.C., I dont see us splitting into 2 separate countries to fight the war. I see everyone banding together to kick some ass. Maybe thats just me. :(
Lemme explain, when you took out a capitol in Civ2, that government went with it. No free Palace in another city, you have to build it again.

In Civ3, the capitol moves.

See, the rules have changed between the old and the new. ;)

My suggestion for Conquests is, if a civ has REALLY bad unhappiness in 50% or more of it's cities for more than 3 turns, for whatever reason, then there is a chance every turn after that of a culture split (new civ appearing).

That would be realistic enough.

And what about new civ appearing which is triggered by the enemy spy missions ???

Originally posted by skylined
And what about new civ appearing which is triggered by the enemy spy missions ???

Ummmm......What?!? :confused:

Maybe I'm just stupid, but could you clarify that? :help:

I think maybe he is kind of talking about the "incite a coup" idea.

RX2000: That is exactly what i had in mind:)
So what about it??

The "Incite Coup" mission is a very good idea, but it would have to be very expensive and very hard to succesfuly preform that way it could only be preformed once per game (mabey more if your extreamely rich).

Yea it would be EXTREMELY unbalancing if you could just pay a few thousand gold and have your nearest rival split in two. It would have to cost a LOT, and maybe be along the lines of using nuclear weapons. Like if you incite coups, everyone hates you a lot or something like that.

Or if you get cought you automaticly go to war with that country along with any countries they have Mutual Protection with. But it would be like you declared war with them not vice versa.

Rememder Call To Power 2 game !!!
Maybe it would be reaslistic if spies could incite a coup in some city of a hostile empire only if:
- Riot in this city(or maybe group of cities) is taking place for a long time
- These cities have some foreign citizens(not assimilated).
- Enemy country goes anarchy.

i didnt think it to be a splitup, i meant it to be to make anarchy and that the nation could not return to the previous form of government for 20 turns. but then again a spilup could occur with the loyalist army to the former government type, such as russia was after oct '17

I just thought of bringing up thid thread because it seems that poeple are toking about this all over again, anyway, what would happen if you have a MPPA with that nation a it splits up, which side do you help, the once before contry or the people with who you signed the treaty. (do i make my self clear?)

Ooo Ooo, what if when you 'disband' a unit, If that city has more than 50% unhappy people than happy people then a 'conscripted' level version of the disbanded troops appears outside your city... representing the unhappy troops that have recently been fired/disbanded.....

(e.g.:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :) :) :( :( = 66%unhappy:happy)
:: disbanded = angry troops

if a country splits up lets say rome, you had a Mutal PPA with rome, which side do you help, the loyalist or the rebells, i think you should be able to chosse, right?

does any body like my idea of a pupet nation? ( I must be a coversation killer, no-one answers)

Originally posted by EddyG17
does any body like my idea of a pupet nation? ( I must be a coversation killer, no-one answers) I like the pupet Nation idea. and dont worry I'm a conversation killer to

(YAHOOO!! some answerd!)

too bad we arent' talking about C3C but Civ4

Yeah unless ley compleatly change the game in a futre expansion I don't think that It will ever be implemented in Civ3. Altough I would like it in Civ4, butthat will probbobaly not be for quite a while.

in mid game there aren't any barbarians, so what if for each unhappy citizens you have there is a chance that they would form a barbarian/guerrilla depending in the age

I agree, forgot to mention this as a request before:

BRING BACK THE SCHISM!!!!!:thumbsup:

Schism? whats that?

I belive it's a song by tool.

yes, a good song by tool... However, I was refering with others to the schism that sometimes occured in Civ2...only had it happen a couple of times, to the AI of course, not me...I am too good for that. :smoke:

I think that there should be TWO seperate espionage options: 1) Incite civil war-this should be VERY expensive, and should only work if the average level of unhappiness in that empire is above 50%, and/or if more than 50% of the empire's cities have more than 2 corruption! If it works, then the chance of a city breaking away would be based on the total corruption of the city, the level of unhappiness, the number and average strength of troops garrisoned there, the distance of the city from the Capital and the culture of that city (as compared to the average). A city that breaks away will become a new civ, but they would be just as susceptible to culture conversion as any other city-so might get immediately absorbed by a powerful neighbour!

2) Incite Coup: Just like it's described above! Again, very expensive, and the chance of success would be dependant on unhappiness/corruption and what government they have, as opposed to what government options they have!

I also agree that the puppet state, or Protectorate, idea. I really liked that in SMAC, and can't see why it can't be brought back for C3C-given that Civ3 is based on the SMAC engine!!!
In fact, I think that ALL of these ideas could be incorporated into the existing game with very little effort.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

if a nation enter civil war, can you help either one of them or not, or if you had already being in war with that country and it enter civil war are you against one side or both of them....

I reckon that, if CW occurs, then because the splinter cities are in all respects a new civ, then your relations with the new civ should be almost in no away affected by how you stand with the "Parent" Civ. For instance, if you are at war with a civ and it undergoes a CW, then you remain at war with the original Civ (unless you meet with them to make peace), but you are considered to be in a state of 'non-agression' with the new Civ. You could open diplomatic overtures to the new civ and either declare war on them, or even offer to help them against their former 'evil overlords'. At least, that's how I see it working :). If you helped spark the Civil War through espionage, then I believe that the new Civ should be better disposed to you than would normally be the case!
On a final note, I think that war weariness should also be a contributing factor to the chance of a CW!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

if a civ declares peace to a civ, it should also automatically do the same with any other civ that it is at war with.

PS. if you lose you capital you should also lose any defencive bonus that you might have there on because you troops morel is now low, this would make the capital an important stratigic thing.

PS. if you are to some how recapture you capital it should automticaly be turn in to you capital again, you should be giving the option to recapture cities in the name of other civs.

PS. if there is going to be a revolt for independence you should be first be asked to give it to them peacefully, (beacuse you thinkyou might not be able to win) that new nation will pay you some kind of tribute or come to your aid if in probles or to form a lock allience with it.

PS if a civil war happens to you, you should be given the option to fight for the actual goverment or to fight the for the revels, if you chose to fight for the rebels and you win the name of the nation should stay the same.

PS why do i have some many PSes? well because they are ideas that occuerd to me while writing this post

i like the revilition idea.