Welcome to the Term 3 Science Department.

In these learned halls we will try to divine the scientific course our nation will take as it moves forward into the Middle Ages. With this new Scientific Age comes many great leaders that dot the Cultural and Intellectual landscape of History. Please join us as we peer into the future where the sky and and the deep blue sea are our only limits.

Science Leader - Cyc

Science Deputy - Computer :)

Science Chat Rep - CivGeneral

The year is currently 920ad and we are researching Printing Press.
We should be finished with it in 5 turns.

Link to Term 2 Science - (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1081317#post1081317)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Term3Sci4.jpg

As you can see above, we are destined to move quickly into the Middle Ages scientifically. We are currently researching Currency and should be complete in 8 - 11 turns. Once that is complete, Fanatica will most likely skip researching Republic and start with Monotheism. At press time, according to this poll, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57350) Fanatican citizens wish to research the path to Education in order to eliminate the effects of the Great Library located in Athens, Greece.

There are several discussions happening in the Citizens Subforum at this time. They are listed below:

What do YOU want? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57348)

Long Term Strategy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57356)

Research Strategy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57081)

I would like to be first to congratulate you, Cyc. Good Luck with this department. Its going to be crucial if we go peaceful.

I would just like to take this moment to ask the following question:
While I realize that this is Domestic's field, does Science have any plans to build any wonders? Having Wonders is going to be a large part of us being successful. Will you work with whoever is Domestic Head (DaveShack and Fionn are going to runoff) to build whatever wonders the Nation deems crucial?
Also, what are your opinions for the needed wonders?
Also Also: Isnt the Fibonacci sequence that 1:1.1618 ratio that seems to be everywhere (Its 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8... right?)
SaaM
Mayor of Nafstac. (Gorina-esque Thread to come soon)

Thank you Stuck. I appreciate it. I agree with you that staying on top of the Scientific scene will be needed to help us inch our way to Victory. Hopefully, successful working of the Sci Rate Slider will keep us in the same ball park as some of the AI's heavy hitters.

As far as Wonders go, I'm all for them and would be glad to work with Domestic in lining up a couple to work on this Term. Personally, I feel that we should commence work on the Sistene Chapel pre-build in Gorina as soon as it's completed its Colosseum. I'd also like us to grab Music Theory, in order to build JS Bach's Cathedral. This is a very popular Great Wonder, but deviates slightly from the bee-line to Democracy some of our citizens are looking for. I feel both are a must, as happiness will probably become a problem for us in the near future. After that, because we are the Romans, I can see Smith's Trading Post being completed before any Science Wonders are built. The Art of War Wonder has never excited me, and as we are Romans, Barracks come at a reduced cost, so there's no big savings there. The Workshop Wonder does interest me and I would like to see that built in the Capital. This leaves the Scientific Wonders, as I sure I'm not going to be able to talk anyone into building the Shakespeare's Theatre Wonder this time around. I never get real excited about these either, but...I'll build Newton's University before Copernicus's Observatory anyday. :) Just conditioning, I guess.

And you are absolutely correct about Fibonacci, our great, but seldom celebrated Italian mathematician. Again, you impress me, Stuck. If I'm ever in the market for a Major General, I'll know where to look. :thumbsup:

P.S. I can't wait to see the Nafstac thread.

Congrats, Cyc, and welcome back to the cabinet.

Thank you, Sir Plexus. Good luck getting the Culture Department back under your wing.

Dear Sir,

Your estimate of reaching the middle ages in 8 to 11 turns may not prove accurate. Our citizens have voted to switch to monarchy now which may delay our entrance into the new age by up to six turns. I would like to hear your opinion as to whether this revolution should be delayed until we complete our current research.

Thank you,
donsig

Mr. President, the Science Department shares your view of waiting until Currency is researched before descending into Anarchy. This is especially true if the citizens vote to wait the 6 turns for the completion of our 4 Settlers in Production at this time (I'd also like to see the Legion in Inadatto change to a Settler - complete in 7 turns). But we must suggest again, that we raise the Sci Rate up to 80% as this will reduce the time we must wait to revolt (to 8 turns). The gold we'll spend per turn on Science is minimal and the gold that we'll lose because of city size reduction (as our Settlers are produced) should only drop us down to a workable level. I can't see waiting the extra turns to revolt. If you are planning on playing 10 turns this next turn chat, then we will be able to see the immediate results of our revolt before you end the chat. We will also know how long the period of Anarchy is, which may help us in our planning. It will also mean that we will be able to stay abreast of the AI 2 - 3 turns earlier.

I have already posted my opinion in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57483), as have you, but I thought i would post it here.

Since we may well hold off the revolution until we have currency, what is the science department's views on trading and/or selling this technology?

Also, a major goal of my administration is to bring the focus of the demogame back to the forums and thereby increase citizen participation. In order to reach these goals our leaders must present pertinent information in their thread (such as you do in the Gorina thread Mayor Cyc). Your post above with the Middle Ages tech tree is the kind of thing I'm talking about here. :goodjob: It would also be nice to have a table summarizing any techs the other civs have that we do not have and any techs we have that they do not have. Is this something you or your deputy could work up for us Minister Cyc?

I agree. It is better to know upfront when the anarchy period starts. That way we can prepare buiuldqueues, research, worker-actions etc. for this.

I think this should be polled. Revolt immediately when we have currency ? 1) No revolt now. 2) Revolt in 1 turn. etc..

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
I agree. It is better to know upfront when the anarchy period starts. That way we can prepare buiuldqueues, research, worker-actions etc. for this.

I think this should be polled. Revolt immediately when we have currency ? 1) No revolt now. 2) Revolt in 1 turn. etc..

The turn chat is less than twelve hours away. I do not think that is enough time for a proper poll on this matter. Governors should plan their build queues under the assumption that the revolution will occur no sooner than seven turns into the chat.

Mr. President, in response to your request, I have list below the current status of Fanatica scientifically in regards to the other nations.

At present Babylon is the only nation we have a technological lead on. We have researched Construction and they have not.

All other nations we are tied with in terms of Science, to include:
Egypt
America
Russia
China
Persia
Aztecs

In response to your question about trading Currency once we have attained its knowledge, as Science Leader, I don't have a problem with this. The other nations are probably close to understanding this tech, so we won't save much by hording it. There may even be quite a few nations that will attain its knowledge before we do. That is another reason why we should raise the Sci Rate Slider up to 80% (-4gpt). This will allow us to complete research in 8 turns. We must move quickly in regards to this.

After last night's turn chat, we still remain Technologically Advanced! Yes, we have completed our research on Currency and are the only known nation in the world to have attained this knowledge. We can be the first to build Marketplaces. This means, essentially, that our Scientific standing in the world improved last night. The Science Department certainly hopes this trend remains constant. :goodjob:

The Latest Science poll is up and can be found here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57982)

Dear Cyc,

I would like to apply for possition of Science Chat Rep :).

Thanks,
CivGeneral

Yes, by all means CG. The Science team welcomes you aboard. I will edit the first post now.

Here is the latest update to the approved Science Department Tech Path. As you can see, because we spent so much time hording our gold instead of spending it on research (2 t/c's ago), we have lost our technological lead, and are now backwards people. Hopefully, we can now stay up at 70% research until we take the lead again (excluding the times when we slide the Sci Rate down to collect extra gold when there is only one turn left to secure a Tech). Note that because of this poll, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=57982) Astronomy has been chosen to be our next Tech after Education. This is fine with the Science Department, as we will possibly get a back-up Wonder to build if the Sistene Chapel goes bad. But this also means that because of the divisiveness of our people in choosing our path, the 6 people that wanted to forge ahead to Democracy will have to wait. Maybe next time. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Term3Sci2.jpg

Just to bring everyone up to speed on the worldwide Science scene, this post is to inform you of the current Tech levels of the rest of the known nations.

Everyone has The Republic, and as this is an optional Tech for a government we will not use, I will not bring it up again.

Only Abe and Mao lack the knowledge of Monotheism.

The Greeks and the Persians have both finished researching Engineering, Feudalism.

With everyone having knowledge of Monotheism, except Abe and Mao (and us), I sure someone (or two) is working on Theology.

I would imagine the Greeks are working on Chivalry to put the horses to good use and the the Persians are working on Invention so they can dig up some saltpeter in their desert.

If so, this is not good for us. We need to push our SciRate up to 70% and leave it there (with the exception of sliding it down to collect more gold when a Tech can be secured in one turn). I realize it's already there, but we can't bring it down any lower as a default level.

We don't really need more than 100-120g in our bank, so we're doing fine financially. Let's have our cities grow, keep our Sci Rate high, and try to work our way back towards the Democracy Tech by getting Banking first. We need banks before we need the opotunity to hand out the Printing Press Tech for copper peices :).

As of 710ad, our progression through the Tech Tree has developed nicely, due to the trades made with other nations. In the picture below, you will see our current base of knowledge.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Term3Sci3.jpg

As will will be moving to Astronomy after Education, the following options will be available to us at its completion.

Chivalry
Invention
Printing Press
Music Theory
Banking
Navigation

It has been suggested in the science thread in the Citizen's subforum that we move towards Economics to get Smith's Trading Post. This would be a viable option, although recent sentiment has shown a desire for Democracy.

Although we are a backward people at the moment scientifically, we only lack a few Techs to once again be the leader in the Science field. As of now, the nations that are superior to us are Russia, Persia, and Greece.

Russia has Invention

Persia has Invention and Chivalry

Greece has Invention

At the moment I can't tell you about America, as we are at war with this nation. But I'm sure they are not much to worry about.

Let's keep that Sci Rate up at 70% and march on into the future. The world is our oyster.

The new Science Dept. Poll can be found here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=59390)

People of Fanatica, to my delight, it has become apparent that the Science Rate has increased so that it has out-stepped our Science Polls. This is a very good development for the Science Department, but not so good in the Tech by Tech chosing of the people.

Therefore I have decided to expand our "3 Techs From Now" program to a "5 Techs From Now" progam. As has been discussed in this thread since its begining, it is clear that the majority of those who have spoken up wish to b-line for Democracy. This makes the leap from a 3 Tech to a 4 Tech program fairle easy at this time. According to the results of the last Science Poll, the people wish to research Banking after the study of Astronomy. That leaves us discovering the knowledge of how a Printing Press works before we finally get to research Democracy. As you can see from the picture below, Democracy would be 4 Techs from now. So, the new question is - Where do you want to be 5 Techs from now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Term3Sci4.jpg

As you can see from the picture above, the techs with the Orange lines under them are our new Options. They are:

Gunpowder
Music Theory
Free Artistry
Economics
Navigation

Please post below and tell the Science Department where you would like to be 5 Techs from now. :)

(By the way, it would be nice to only have one place of discussion for this)

I am not sure about 5 techs from now, but here is what I recommend:

1) Astronomy
2) Banking
3) Economics
4) Gunpowder

I really think ensuring Adams Smiths' is worth going for Economics. The gold saved with Adam Smith's can help boost the science rate, leading to faster tech discoveries. I would hate for us to lose that to another civ.

With our recent development in the Science Rate, I will now post the current Tech Path. We are currently researching Astronomy and should be done in 4 turns. We will then move on to Banking. After that, we will continue on to Democracy by getting Printing Press first. The Path is listed below.

1. Astronomy
2. Banking
3. Printing Press
4. Democracy

I think we should go for Economics after those four, Cyc, The wonder it gives (Adam Smith's Trading Co.) can help our budget (combining it with Wall Street would make it even better).

Originally posted by zorven
(By the way, it would be nice to only have one place of discussion for this)

I am not sure about 5 techs from now, but here is what I recommend:

1) Astronomy
2) Banking
3) Economics
4) Gunpowder

I really think ensuring Adams Smiths' is worth going for Economics. The gold saved with Adam Smith's can help boost the science rate, leading to faster tech discoveries. I would hate for us to lose that to another civ.

I hear what you're saying zorven. You are correct in believing that Economics is a strong and important Tech. I have acknowledged your comments in prior posts. Personally, I like to be in a Democracy before I start building Stock Markets. :D (wish)

Originally, the people voiced their opinion to b-line straight for a Democracy, but we momentarily got side-tracked to Astronomy. This was a good thing as we picked up another Great Wonder to plan for - Copernicus' Observatory.

Now the Science Dept. feels we should move back to the original goal of Democracy, as that sentiment is still being voiced. Economics is one of the Options in the new Science Poll. I suggest you rally votes for it in one of the discussions.

I would like to see Economics somewhere in there, as I think we should get Smith's Trading Co.

The new Science Poll has been posted here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1127001#post1127001)

Cyc,

Thanks for posting the poll. I think you are doing a good job of getting input from the citizens. However, I think the poll is a bit biased. It assumes that the first four techs we are going to research are firmly decided and we are only allowed to vote on the 5th. There have been a couple of people, including myself, that feel the priority of the first four techs needs to be changed to allow for Economics to be inserted after Banking. I know you stated that the earlier conensus dictated a beeline for Democracy, but shouldn't this be put on the table when you go through the process of another poll? I think a new poll is a good time to see if "popular" opinion has changed given the games current circumstances.

What do you think?

I don't think it is biased. Those four were confirmed before. Weren't they? He just wants the fifth, now.

Zarn,

I believe the latest poll only confirmed the people's will through Banking before it was closed.

Thank you Zarn, for your support. Thank you too, zorven for your kind words.

Again, zorven you are correct about the last poll only confirming Banking. I can also see you point about not have complete control over the Tech choosing process during this program switch-over. I apologize to the citizens of Fanatica for having to change the format with which we choose our Techs, but as we grow to a larger sized nation, we will be developing our research system to an even greater extent. Soon we will be researching Techs in 4 turns. That's two Techs a t/c. We have to adapt to a new research system now so the next changed won't be quite as drastic.

As a nation, we are pretty well set on heading for Democracy. This being the case, I saw no reason not to make the switch now, as most citizens would be happy with the change.

I hope you will try to see my reasoning as sound and appropriate for our current situation. We need to be 5 Techs ahead NOW. If we wait, we will slowly slip behind in queueing up the Tech Path.

Cyc,

I definetly think you are on track by planning 5 techs in advance. I am just campaigning for my preferred tech choices by arguing that there may not be consensus by the people for a quick rush to Democracy after Banking. And if that is the case, then the poll would not reflect that.

I think Democracy would be a good thing, I just don't want to miss our one shot at getting Smith's.

According to this Poll, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1132744#post1132744) Economics will be researched after we complete research on Democracy. The results of this Poll give us our fifth Tech in advance. A new Poll will go up on Monday, 7/28.

As stated above, Economics will be researched after Democracy in our Tech Path to the future. But because our SciRate was so efficient in today's t/c, we finished researching two Techs, Astronomy and Banking. This means Economics is no longer 5 Techs out, but 3. Below I have posted an update to the Middle Ages Tech Tree for the current year, 920ad. As you can see, we are now researching Printing Press and from there we will go to Democracy, followed by Economics.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Term3Sci5.jpg

In our last update, we had 5 Options to choose from to vote for our next Tech to research. This time our selection is narrowed to 4. I was thinking about taking the two top vote-getters for our next two Techs, but decided against it, as I feel our SciRate might slow next t/c. Hopefully, I will be running two more Polls before end of Term. Anyway, the new Options are:

Gunpowder
Music Theory
Free Artistry
Navigation

It's a shorter list, so this should make choosing an Option easier. :D I will be posting a Poll very soon.

Originally posted by Cyc
According to this Poll, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1132744#post1132744) Economics will be researched after we complete research on Democracy. The results of this Poll give us our fifth Tech in advance. A new Poll will go up on Monday, 7/28.

I have posted a new poll asking straight up if we really want to go through printing press->democracy before economics. I do not think it is right to progress along the path of non-required before required without verifying it with the people first. Sure, we talked about going for Democracy but that was in the context of setting which major part of the tree to start on.

You are welcome to Poll if you like, DaveShack, but as I said in the Science discussion thread in the Citizen's subforum (which has been open since 6/30/03 and you have only just made your first contribution to it minutes ago), if you've had an opinion about the course of the Science Department, you should post here. :D

BTW, as you are Domestic Leader and I am Science Leader, your Poll will be informational and my Poll will be official.

Originally posted by Cyc
You are welcome to Poll if you like, DaveShack, but as I said in the Science discussion thread in the Citizen's subforum (which has been open since 6/30/03 and you have only just made your first contribution to it minutes ago), if you've had an opinion about the course of the Science Department, you should post here. :D

BTW, as you are Domestic Leader and I am Science Leader, your Poll will be informational and my Poll will be official.

Things were going so well that I didn't feel it was necessary to "me too" everything. You can find plenty of comments in the poll threads, if you want to see proof of my interest... :D

It's not about who controls it -- I have no interest there. I would recommend that if the poll says Economics that you should consider that a sign.. ;)

Also, DaveShack, the two posts you've made here in this thread within the last 15 minutes have been your only contributions here. I suppose I could glean the polls for your comments. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cyc
Also, DaveShack, the two posts you've made here in this thread within the last 15 minutes have been your only contributions here. I suppose I could glean the polls for your comments. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't normally copy things in more than one place. The substantial information is in the 3 techs from now before the 5 techs from now before the current one... :rolleyes:

I also put a substantial response in the discussion thread.

To reiterate, it's your show, but I was genuinely surprised to see printing press->democracy inserted without definitive input, and the previous 5 techs from now was definitely misleading to me -- I saw it come out a day or two after the other one and assumed the tech chosen by that poll followed immediately after the one in the previous poll. I know, the info is right there... (where's the smiley for a blind man bumping into something... ) :D

By the results of this Poll, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1139586#post1139586) we now have our fourth Tech in the Tech Queue. And that Tech is Gunpowder, which won the Poll with 64% of the vote. The Poll was held open for 48 hours. Therefore, our current Tech Queue looks like this -

Printing Press
Democracy
Economics
Gunpowder

A new Science Poll will go up today that will have the following Tech Options listed in it -

Music Theory
Chemistry
Free Artistry
Navigation

The aforementioned Poll has been posted and can be found here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1140740#post1140740) Please vote now. This Poll will stay open for 72 hours and will give us our 5th Tech in the Science Queue.

Minister Cyc,
As your potential sucessor, I have but one question to ask of you before you depart this office (after raiding it of all supplies, paperweights and towels, of course).
Where do we plan to prebuild Smith? We have the ability to do a prebuild again, so where do we put it?
Penguinadua...Penguinadua...Penguinadua..

:D Hehe. You brought up the same point when I mentioned Shakespeare's Theater, you Shakespearian Penguin, you. :D

First of all, I still believe the placement of Wonders, or the gathering of knowledge and support for choosing a site for one is the responsiblity of the Domestic Dept. If not there, then it should fall on the Culture Dept. Both are well suit, departmentally for this.

Second, although since its creation, I have looked upon Peguinadua as a Cultural center, it has never blossomed as such. It is now tied with some other 10 cities in Culture. Although it is building a Cathedral now, I think a Marketplace followed by a University would be a better queue for this city. In regards to Wonder building, Penguinadua will need some irrgation in it's grasslands and mines in it's hills to make it a strong contender for that right. As of now, it is tied with Regia Doughnutia for 6th place in the Shields standings. So things don't look that favorable.

But there is good news. I have decided to vote for you as Science Leader. Having known you for quite some time, I can say I am very familiar with your work and trust you will not let the nation down. I'm sure Siegmund will make an excellent Deputy. :thumbsup:

BTW, you have to buy you own flasks and beakers, as I've found an excellent use for them at home and have more or less appropriated them all. :D

Well, as we close out this Term's Science Report, I'd also like to thank everyone for the opportunity of being on the President's Cabinet. We'v had a very successful Term in Science, I'm sure both Merlin and Fibonacci would be proud of us. We've researched or traded for 14 Techs, which is outstanding, and we are still Technologically advanced. :D

We will be done researching Democracy in 5 turns and then move onto Economics (9 turns), followed by...well we have to get the results of the Science Poll which ends this Saturday morning before the next chat. Due to our excellent funding and trading this last t/c, we achieved Printing Press, Music Theory, and Gunpowder (we have two sources of Saltpeter connected!). Our new options are Chemistry, Free Artistry, and Navigation. Please don't vote for Music Theory in the current Poll. :D Below, you'll find a picture of our current Science Screen.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Term3Sci6.jpg