what about simply making it so that u cant have all the different things on the same tile..

Originally posted by aaminion00
In other news, can you do my French homework for me?
How much do you pay :D ?

Originally posted by LouLong
@Steph, starts to look great

Starts? :eek: Nowadays, would be user are never happy :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sir John
what about simply making it so that u cant have all the different things on the same tile..

It would be easy to do, but won't it limit the player's possibility to much?

Wouldn't you like to be able to build a fortress to protect you colonies?

well, ok certain combos should be there but what irrigating and mining the same tile? to make prioroties u should make a list over how much of the tile that is needed for the different things so that a player would have o prioritate, like this:
Colony 50%
Airfield 60%
Mine 40%
irrigation 80%
Fortress 20%
outpost 20%

I think something like that could work fine... this would also be neat when making mods if u could choose how many percent they take. Perhaps resources could also take up some space?

Originally posted by Steph
And here is a closer look at the editor toolbox

Steph, That's a great improvment since you start a few weeks ago ! :goodjob:

For your toolbox, would it be possible to make it dockable in the main window ??? And would present a bit better if you line up all the main buttons and when you click on one it display the menu with the tiles exemple ??? (not sure that I've make a good explanation here...) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sir John
well, ok certain combos should be there but what irrigating and mining the same tile? to make prioroties u should make a list over how much of the tile that is needed for the different things so that a player would have o prioritate, like this:
Colony 50%
Airfield 60%
Mine 40%
irrigation 80%
Fortress 20%
outpost 20%

I think something like that could work fine... this would also be neat when making mods if u could choose how many percent they take. Perhaps resources could also take up some space?

Farming and mining are not possible at the same time.
A square will have a population, that could be mainly agricultural or industrial (or unemeployed). If the agricultural > industrial, then the square will have a farming graphics, else it will have a mine graphics (of course, the population needs to have a sufficient level).
But then, fortresses, outpost and airbase are additional attributes, that will show on top of farming/mine as they are more important.
Colonies are then even more important, and will show above it (colonies are like small cities)

The resources will always be on top, except if there is a colony

Originally posted by LBPB
For your toolbox, would it be possible to make it dockable in the main window ??? And would present a bit better if you line up all the main buttons and when you click on one it display the menu with the tiles exemple ??? (not sure that I've make a good explanation here...) :rolleyes:

Main buttons are already lined up. I cannot easily add pictures in the menu with the tiles exemple, instead of taking time to do it I prefer to work on other important things
I will see for SSS II in a few years :D

Good news! Whoever had my French book last year wrote all the answers from front to back cause they didn't know they weren't supposed to write in it.

Oh... on topic... well... looking great....

No update yet, but stay tune, I'm working on a new map feature that you will like. At least I hope so!

Come on steph... Ur evil! :evil:

Saying A without saying B.. What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature??

:hopping around like a mad dog:

Your graphics are looking pretty good, I have to say. I can take a look at the "high mountains" and see if I can't get them to look a little more like the others.

Originally posted by Sir John
Come on steph... Ur evil! :evil:

Saying A without saying B.. What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature?? What new feature??

:hopping around like a mad dog:

Ok, I give you an hint. It's something that can change the way one of the great wonder is working

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Your graphics are looking pretty good, I have to say. I can take a look at the "high mountains" and see if I can't get them to look a little more like the others.

Well, they are not supposed to look like the others : having different graphics is mandatory so you can tell the difference. But they should blend with the others: ie the colors at the base should match.

As I've finished sooner than expected, here is a screenshot of the mysterious new feature.

Have you ever wonder how to defend your farms from barbarians, when a river offers only partial protection?

Simple : build a (small) great wall!

Note it is still in early stage, I need to rework the graphics that do not match very well yet.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THATS AWSOME!!

FIRAXIS NEEDS TO HIRE U!!!!


This is so cool. Will u be able to upgrade it to a stone wall later? How will the wall work? Why cant u build it on rivers?

when talking about rivers..

Can u make a "dig channel" worker action? It would make it possible to "make" big rivers. It would be very expensive and come very late.. It could also include a certein risk percentege per turn that the worker dies.. (that could be inlcuded in other buildings\wonders\worker actions as well)

Btw: Maby more wonders could be built outside the city.. like the pyramids.. It would look very cool..

That's awsome!!

But wait, is that a tile improvement, or a wonder outside of the city? I'd rather it be a tile improvement but I suppose it works both ways.

You better not join firaxis! The way you're heading, you're fullfiling the dreams of most all people in C&C forums even more than civ3.

As for channels, they should come in the lade industrial age and take the longest time.

Wow!!! Great idea. So we can build the chinese wall or roman limes. :thumbsup:

Sir John posted:
Btw: Maby more wonders could be built outside the city.. like the pyramids.. It would look very cool..That's a great idea too. It would be nice to see the hanging gardens or eiffeltower on the map.

BTW: Steph, is there any progress on your mod? IMO your new project is more important than Stephs mod.;)

Originally posted by Sir John
FIRAXIS NEEDS TO HIRE U!!!!

Can they afford me ;) ?

Originally posted by Sir John

This is so cool. Will u be able to upgrade it to a stone wall later? How will the wall work? Why cant u build it on rivers?

As I said, It's an ealry screenshot. Wait for this evening and you will learn more. :D

Originally posted by Sir John

when talking about rivers..

Can u make a "dig channel" worker action? It would make it possible to "make" big rivers. It would be very expensive and come very late.. It could also include a certein risk percentege per turn that the worker dies.. (that could be inlcuded in other buildings\wonders\worker actions as well)

I'm thinking about canal. Perhaps they will come later. Wait and see.
About the worker : I'm not sure there will be worker at all. But i f there are workers, they will be "used" by a lot more action. If you build a mine, the worker will work the mine, and thus disappear.

Originally posted by aaminion00
That's awsome!!

But wait, is that a tile improvement, or a wonder outside of the city? I'd rather it be a tile improvement but I suppose it works both ways.

You better not join firaxis! The way you're heading, you're fullfiling the dreams of most all people in C&C forums even more than civ3.


It's a tile improvment. You can decide to fortify a border of a tile.
More about this later with more screenshots.

Originally posted by goethe
Wow!!! Great idea. So we can build the chinese wall or roman limes. :thumbsup:

:D

Originally posted by goethe

BTW: Steph, is there any progress on your mod? IMO your new project is more important than Stephs mod.;)

The mod is working slowly. When I try to add new units, I have so many of them that I get lost in the units list (damn! They could have sorted it), and I keep thinking "What do you still try to use it? Make your own!".
But I don't like unfinished business. So I will first finish converting American Conquest and Fight Back unit, then finish my mod.
Because what I do for my mod help me with SSS.

I hate u steph! (just kidding).
U come here and post theese awsome things but u only give us bits of information and tells us to wait.. Ur :evil: ! Ur releated to the :devil:

Originally posted by Steph


Well, they are not supposed to look like the others : having different graphics is mandatory so you can tell the difference. But they should blend with the others: ie the colors at the base should match.

Right. The trick is keeping them looking higher than the others.

As promised, more info about walls.

They are tile improvment. You have several levels. Right now, I have wooden, bricks and stone walls.

I will also make a modern one.

Walls are specific to a tile, and protect only the unit in the tile.

In the North East, you can see a wooden wall just on the other side of the stone walls : both side fortified their border (remember of Maginot and Sigfried lines?)

You can build walls in flat terrain, but also with relief ; they will then follow the crest lines.

I like it. Just one thing..
Will they be able to defend the tile without a unit beeing there?? if they were that would be really cool. Perhaps the defense values of the wall would always be the same as the attack value of the attacking unit (ecsept if theyre from different ages, the it would be a bonus to the one from the newest age).. u get the idea..

For a industrial age wall it could be a gunhole (dont remeber the english word. Its the holes in the ground that the solders stood in under ww1\ww2 when defending an area.. They were like lines.. U get teh point..)

For the modern era it could be a radar feild of some kind.. not sure..

I think they “undefended” walls should stop the movement of fast units, slowing down the blitz attacks of rampaging enemies and giving the home guard time to regroup.

Here's what I think:

- They should slow down armies, completely slow down armies of the same age as them. If they're an age old, then the opponent's army's just keep going.

- They have a small defense rating which would do a tiny bit of damage to the opposing unit

I think that would be best.

The wall will slow the ennemy units, who will need a full turn to cross them.

They will give a bonus to defending unit. The most advanced version will be able to bombard one tile away (line Maginot styme), but will be very expensive.

Of course, all this will be strictly limited to the side of the square protected by the wall.

:cry: I can't see your embedded picture :cry:
please use pcx or jpg

sorry, now it works, I'm stupid :rolleyes:

will u sue those "fighter pits"? They would be an exelent 3era wall..

Sir John, do you mean trenches?

I can use anything. I just need graphics.
I can do a modern wall with mirador.

If you want something else, send me the graphics, and I'll see if I can add it.

Hey Steph, I've been working on some bunker/emplacements for WW2 mods, let me know if they'd be usefull for your current work, and if you need them in a specific graphic format.

Barricades and Bunkers (http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=4436)

These is the picture I'm using for fortification.

If you want to make new graphics, just replace the wall and tower by your own graphics.

Warning : try to respect the size, or it will not show well on hills, and it can also make "ghost" fortification in other tiles if the graphics spill out of their square.

Yes. Trenches. Thx Kal el. That was ecsactly what i meant... Somone should make graphics for that.. It cant be THAT hard...

Great work Balrog.

Here are the "bases".

In a tile, you can build :
- An harbour, but only on coast. It serves as a naval base, can supply naval units and repair them.
- An airbase (two levels), but only in flat lands with no vegetation. Aircraft can be based here. A level 2 airbase is mandatory for jet fighters, so you may have to upgrade your level 1 airbase (it can accept only propeller aircraft).
- An outpost (4 levels) can serve as a supply point for a few units, give line of sight on the area, and a small defense bonus.
- A fortress (4 levels) can supply a larger force, give line of sight, and increased defense bonus. However, it is longer to build and more expensive than an outpost.

This can be combine with fortifications.

For instance, you can enclose your airbase in walls (look at the level 1 airbase on the left), or you can build a serie of walls, with a few fortress to help supply your army, etc.

Tomorrow I'll add the mines and colonies.

PS: I have more than 2000 posts :cool:

I really like how you are doing this.

Ca commence à avoir de la gueule !!! :D (I'm starting to find this really nice.) Carry on, Steph ! You can do great things. Doesn't anyone feel it looks like SimCity (graphics speaking) ? Hey, where are my roads ?!! :rolleyes:

One question : will the walls will be part of the Great Wall wonder, or just tile improvements, like mines ? Cause the Great Wall was quite unique, so maybe it's not a good idea to build it all over the world...

Maby if u reasearch the great wall or something like that u can build a great wall. there would be two rules for the great wall. It would have to be conected with a former part of the wall.. (so it wont be spread around) It can only be built by the civ that gets to it first...

Anyway.. The ports look nice but wouldnt it be better for them to be able to turn? U see the lowest dock to the left on the pic looks weird...

Fortification are tile improvment that protect only a side of the tile.

The Great Wall was perhaps unique, but the Roman built the Adrian wall, the limes...

So fortified borders existed.

About the Great Wall, I'm not sure yet :
- Perhaps it can be build only if you have enough fortified tiles.
- Perhaps it is "automatically" build if you have enough fortified tiles.

The fortification will be quite costly, so it may not be very wise to build them all other the world.

Originally posted by Steph
The wall will slow the ennemy units, who will need a full turn to cross them.
They will give a bonus to defending unit. The most advanced version will be able to bombard one tile away (line Maginot styme), but will be very expensive.
Of course, all this will be strictly limited to the side of the square protected by the wall.
Additional the wall should reduce the fog of war to the protected side

Not many new things today : I've caught a cold and I'm tired, so I'll go to bed earlier.

I have added the mines and colonies.

On the screenshot, you can see an advanced civilization, settled in grassland, with mines level 2 and 3 in the mountains.
It has two airbases (level 1 and 2), a naval base.
A level 4 colony extract resources in the jungle, and a level 3 colony is searching for oil in the north.

Two platerfoms exploits the wealth of the sea. The south border is protected by concrete fortification, and are backed by a level 4 fortress.
An old level 3 fortress is kept in the West (mainly for tourist ;) ).
A important part of the land has level 3 farming.

The civilization in the South East is a lot more backward, with wooden and brick walls, level 1 fortress, level 1 and 2 mines, level 2 farming. They have tried to expend to the west with 2 coloines, and a few level 1 farms in the desert.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_Mines.jpg

What about the dock thing I mentioned??

This is looking cool. Is there a random generator in there or is it all manual at this point?

Originally posted by Sir John
What about the dock thing I mentioned??

I'll fix all these bugs after the beta. I want to include as much features as I can to get a clear idea of the whole stuff, and then try to adapt what I did to allow editing.

Right now, it's hardcoded.

Originally posted by warpstorm
This is looking cool. Is there a random generator in there or is it all manual at this point?

Manual at the point. BTW, if someone is interesting, I have a job opening : find how to generate nice random maps. No coding, just design the logic and the rules of the random generator.

Today feature : the villages!

You have several cultures and era (same as civilization until I find a graphist to make others), and then you place a small hous representing a populated area.

So when population < limit 1 -> no village, empty.

When limit 1 < population < limit 2, you have a village

when population > limit 2, you have a city.

You cannot build anything in villages (only in city), but they will contribute to food / goods production in a different way.

They will also have an impact on warfare.

Tommorrow, I will try to add the road and railroad.

Then I'll do several brush size and save / load.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_Villages.jpg

How realistic would you want the random terrain? Plate tectonics and global climate patterns or basic roll them dice?

I want a random terrain that respect the climatic area (at least artic, tropical, equatorial).

Plains, grasslands, jungle, tundra and desert should be at realistic spots.

Rivers should flow from mountains to the sea, and I'd like to see logical mountains / high mountains chain.

Last, it should create correctly continents / island (this is not possible with a strictly randm process).

The good thing is thanks to my map system, where background (ie climate), mountains and vegetation are separate, you don't have to worry about mountains in desertic climate.

So my answer would be something in between, but more close to plate tectonics and global patterns than basic roll (let say 70% 30% ?)

Originally posted by Steph
The Great Wall was perhaps unique, but the Roman built the Adrian wall, the limes...

So fortified borders existed.

About the Great Wall, I'm not sure yet :
- Perhaps it can be build only if you have enough fortified tiles.
- Perhaps it is "automatically" build if you have enough fortified tiles.

The fortification will be quite costly, so it may not be very wise to build them all other the world.

Also the Theodosian Wall (protecting the western side of Constantinople); the Maginot Line; modern efforts like the Israeli/Palestinian divide; etc.

-- Oh, and Steph:

1. Thanks for pointing me to this thread and effort!
2. I think you mean "Hadrian's Wall" (Britain) -- although (because historical references are always so clear :rolleyes: ) the Theodosian Wall did indeed also protect the Roman city of Adrianople -- yes, "the city of Hadrian" -- called Edirne in modern times.

Best,

Oz

Bravo ! Steph ! Votre jeu a pris très bonne tournure :crazyeye: !

J'attends avec impatience la suite !

Il faut un site web pour votre projet !

Originally posted by ozymandias

2. I think you mean "Hadrian's Wall" (Britain) -- although (because historical references are always so clear :rolleyes: ) the Theodosian Wall did indeed also protect the Roman city of Adrianople -- yes, "the city of Hadrian" -- called Edirne in modern times.

Best,

Oz

Yes, Hadrian's Wall, not Adrian.

Originally posted by Lachlan
Bravo ! Steph ! Votre jeu a pris très bonne tournure :crazyeye: !

J'attends avec impatience la suite !

Il faut un site web pour votre projet !

Yes, I need a web site. I'm waiting for the return of Elucidus at CDG. He's away for personal matters, and he should open a new forum for SSS.

Once I've a few more features ready, I will probably create a website.

Wow. I saw this when it first started and thought "Another dead idea". It is very much alive, and I would be willing to help if needed, though my time is limited with school and work. Once Conquests is released, I will be working on the MTG Mod, but until then, lemme know. I can do websites ;) You can even send me some of the graphics with messed up pallettes and I will try to blend them.

- GIDustin

Originally posted by GIDustin
Wow. I saw this when it first started and thought "Another dead idea".
Did I accustomed you to "dead idea"? Although my different projects may go slowly, none of them is dead. I'm still cnverting units from AC and FB, even cossacks is still in work. SBB and CEC are both running well, and my mod get some regular updates.

Originally posted by GIDustin
Once Conquests is released, I will be working on the MTG Mod, but until then, lemme know. I can do websites ;) You can even send me some of the graphics with messed up pallettes and I will try to blend them.
- GIDustin

Thanks for your help. I can do website to, but I have "only" 100 Mb available to host them. Steph's mod alone is 90 Mb...
So I'm waiting more for somewhere to host the site, and I thinkg it should be CDG.
For the graphics, send me an email at stephane.f.david@free.fr, and I can send you the files.

steph: Cant u just ask Thunderfall to host u? Im sure he would. if he wont u can just collect "signatures" Im sure there would be a LOT of people that would support u :D

He's already hosting my mod.

I could perhaps ask...

Originally posted by Steph

Did I accustomed you to "dead idea"? Although my different projects may go slowly, none of them is dead. I'm still cnverting units from AC and FB, even cossacks is still in work. SBB and CEC are both running well, and my mod get some regular updates.


No, it wasnt your projects. There was a thread at CDG where someone was basically doing the same thing. He had the editor 25% complete and then dissappeared. There have also been many projects that were started, then forgotten...

I will send you an email right away. The graphics arent too big are they? That "so big" virus continues to fill my inbox with junk mail that puts me over the limit and I would hate to lose any mail.

- GIDustin

I've send you the files, about 2 Mb each (two zips).
If you don't get it, tell me, and I'll spit it in more files.

Originally posted by GIDustin


No, it wasnt your projects. There was a thread at CDG where someone was basically doing the same thing. He had the editor 25% complete and then dissappeared. There have also been many projects that were started, then forgotten...link?

No Yoda, the name of the guy was not link, neither was it the name of the project :D

Originally posted by GIDustin


No, it wasnt your projects. There was a thread at CDG where someone was basically doing the same thing. He had the editor 25% complete and then dissappeared. There have also been many projects that were started, then forgotten...

I will send you an email right away. The graphics arent too big are they? That "so big" virus continues to fill my inbox with junk mail that puts me over the limit and I would hate to lose any mail.

- GIDustin


Hmm, sounds familar!

Nice work your currently doing Steph.

Originally posted by Yoda Power
link?

http://www.official-tbe.co.uk/forum/index.php

Doesnt work now, hence the "dissappeared". Was it you, JimmyH, who was working on that?

GIDustin

Ah ha, found the thread. It was JimmyH :)
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=6

GIDustin

Thanks Gid:)

Steph - I had an idea while thinking about a possible Dutch UU -

How about having Privateers generate commerce for YOU while they are in another civ's city radius? Do you think that would be possible?

I just had another idea - units that can only attack certain improvements. For example, an early siege engine that could only attack a city wall or fortification.

These are very interesting ideas. I'll note them for later, it's to early to implement these kind of features. I'll go step by step

Originally posted by Steph
These are very interesting ideas. I'll note them for later, it's to early to implement these kind of features. I'll go step by step

Thanks! I just wanted to get them down before I forgot.

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Steph - I had an idea while thinking about a possible Dutch UU -

How about having Privateers generate commerce for YOU while they are in another civ's city radius? Do you think that would be possible?

I just had another idea - units that can only attack certain improvements. For example, an early siege engine that could only attack a city wall or fortification.

Hmm ... Assuming that resources are being shipped into any given port (and of course that said shipping could automatuically be diverted to another port in case of blockade etc.) how about giving a raider / privateer a chance of intercepting that resource (and diverting it to the privateer's owner) for that turn?

-Oz

Originally posted by ozymandias


Hmm ... Assuming that resources are being shipped into any given port (and of course that said shipping could automatuically be diverted to another port in case of blockade etc.) how about giving a raider / privateer a chance of intercepting that resource (and diverting it to the privateer's owner) for that turn?

-Oz

I'd be up for it, if it would be possible.

With the resources, you could maybe extend that chance to enemy ships during wartime as well.

It could work only quite early with privateers, AND ship of the line that captured ennemy ships.

But for modern naval wafare, the tactis was more to sink convoys with submarines, not to capture them.

Originally posted by Steph
It could work only quite early with privateers, AND ship of the line that captured ennemy ships.

But for modern naval wafare, the tactis was more to sink convoys with submarines, not to capture them.

To sink with submarines is a "pis-aller". The all-out submarine strategy of Second World War was raged to sink because Germany had clearly understood it could not control the seas. But during WWI, German ships acted as pirates sometimes (especially around New Guinea), especially to get coal to keep on.

So I definitely agree with surface ships able and subs not being able. Anyway a sub would lose much of its stealth if accompanying a captured cargo :lol:

Originally posted by Steph
The good thing is thanks to my map system, where background (ie climate), mountains and vegetation are separate, you don't have to worry about mountains in desertic climate.

Does this mean the game treats forests and jungles as overlays instead of specific terrain? If, not that would be be a great idea. I've always wanted forested hills and mountainous jungles. Possibly a swamp as well?

Originally posted by WWWeasel

Does this mean the game treats forests and jungles as overlays instead of specific terrain? If, not that would be be a great idea. I've always wanted forested hills and mountainous jungles. Possibly a swamp as well?

Hills and mountains are a first overlay, then forest and jungle are a second overlay.
This mean you can have a forested tundra hills, or a mountainous jungle.

For Swmap, I'm waiting nice graphics to add them, they will be in the same overlay as forest and jungle, can exist only in grassland and on flat terrain (I don't see the point for Swmap in desert mountain:D)

Originally posted by Steph


Hills and mountains are a first overlay, then forest and jungle are a second overlay.
This mean you can have a forested tundra hills, or a mountainous jungle.

For Swmap, I'm waiting nice graphics to add them, they will be in the same overlay as forest and jungle, can exist only in grassland and on flat terrain (I don't see the point for Swmap in desert mountain:D)

If -- are? -- you implement global warming, you might want to consider tundra deforming to swamp as the permafrost melts.

-Oz

Originally posted by ozymandias
If -- are? -- you implement global warming, you might want to consider tundra deforming to swamp as the permafrost melts.That's a good idea. Sort of like "muskeg."

Today I have added the roads.

There are 3 levels of roads : minor (the thin brown), medium (medium brown), and major (large grey).

The highest the road level, the more trade it will generate. It will also increase the speed of units : ie minor road will not increase the speed, but allow mouvement in forest / mountains...

I now have a question about railroad. How should they work with roads?
The normal historical progression should be :
- Minor roads -> medium roads -> railroads -> major roads.

However, I'd like to allow railroads to carry large troops other great distance, and major roads will not do this.

So I think railroad should be a different layer, always displayed on top. A square could have railroad AND roads, that won't give the same bonus.

Now if you look closely at the screenshot, you may see the roead engine doesn't work at all like in CivIII : you need to actually build a road between to square. It means that if you have 4 square (2x2), and join top left to top right to bottom right to bottom left to top left, you will get a "circular" road, without direct connection betwen top left and bottom right.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_Roads.jpg

It looks good. Aboyt the swamps. Yoda uses a swamp graphic in his mem mod.. I think u could use those.. they are quite good..

The ideas about railroads seem fine to me.

Just one think though : could it be possible to have somekind of "rupture de charge" meaning trains are fast but getting on and off board takes time = units should have to stop when using rialroad (kind of loading onto the train) then stop when getting off (kind of unloading). That would enable a fast transport with large capacity but not deprived of logistical disadvantages.
Possible ?
Major roads could be just called "Highways" :)

Will it be possible in SSS to have rivers acting as early road (faster movement) and enabling trade ?

Originally posted by LouLong
The ideas about railroads seem fine to me.

Just one think though : could it be possible to have somekind of "rupture de charge" meaning trains are fast but getting on and off board takes time = units should have to stop when using rialroad (kind of loading onto the train) then stop when getting off (kind of unloading). That would enable a fast transport with large capacity but not deprived of logistical disadvantages.
Possible ?
Major roads could be just called "Highways" :)

Will it be possible in SSS to have rivers acting as early road (faster movement) and enabling trade ?

Good ideas : to use railroad, a unit must spent the whole turn, it makes a real difference between road and railroad then.
Major rivers will hav ethis capability

How's this nomenclature?

minor roads = "secondary roads"
medium roads = "primary roads"
major roads = "highways"

That's sort of how they call 'em back home.

It would be cool, though, if you could have the nomenclature change from "era" to "era" (if you're having eras), so that:

minor roads = "paths"
medium roads = "roads" (of Rome, or Persia, etc.)

(In ancient and medieval times, I'd imagine.)

Travel along rivers would be neat, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, Steph.

But I've been meaning to ask you about changing nomenclature for other things, too, and maybe this is the time:

Have you given thought to civilisations or cities changing names as time goes on? Like "Babylon" eventually turning into "Baghdad" once those "Mesopotamians" turn into "Arabs" in the middle ages? Stuff like that? Something to emulate the fluidity of a "civ." Just wondering.

I can't believe you can just make your own game. It blows me away. I can't even find enough time to add units to my personal mod! :)

how bout "paths", "trails" or tracks for minor roads?

medium roads should just be called roads.

also it would be cool if you couldn't cross major rivers until you have built a bridge or a ferry station.

Originally posted by Mithadan

Travel along rivers would be neat, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, Steph.


Yes! -- I was very disappointed to see the change in rivers from tiles to tile-sides:

1. Historically, they've been hugely important as commerce-ways and military corridors.

2. Having them as tile-sides IMHO overstates the impact of river valleys.

3. Limiting certain improvements -- such as hydro-electric plants -- to cities actually built on rivers would be gratifying.

4. Whereas Civ2 movement- a flat-out 1/3rd MP per tile - is excessive, differentiating between upstream and downstream directions would make great sense (I mean, Aguirre et. al. tried to float down the Amazon long before anyone went the other way ...) therefore 1/3rd MP downstream and no advantage upstream.

... While I'm one of my two or three standard "terrain rants" :D may I suggest being able to limit certain units to rail travel only!! This not only accomodates the heavy guns like "Dora" and "Big Bertha", it also (i) allows for the incredible importance of armored trains from the Russian Civil War through WW2 and (ii) could even simulate President Ray-gun's notion of shuttling American ICBMs around railroads like so many peas in a shell game.

Best,

Oz

Originally posted by Mithadan
How's this nomenclature?
...
It would be cool, though, if you could have the nomenclature change from "era" to "era" (if you're having eras), so that:
...

About the nomenclature :
- right now, I'm just making the graphic engine works. It's almost finished (for the map part, I'll come back to it when I have resources, cities and units). That's why I use "simple" names like level 1, 2, 3 for mines, or minor, medium major for roads.
However, I've also started to work on the editor. Main terrain features (grassland, relief, vegetation, rivers) will not be editable, except to change the picture files. However, other improvment such as roads, fortification, mines, etc should be editable :
- You can change its name
- You can change its graphics
- You can change its effects.
However, you cannot add a new kind of improvment, and for a given one you will be limited to effect related to this improvment. For instance, road can increase movement speed, but fortress cannot.

About era : there won't be much era graphical change, except for cities and villages. That's because you need to upgrade your improvment : if you build a wooden forticiation, it will remain so until the end of the game, except if you spent resource to turn it inot bricks, then stone, then concrete, etc. As you will be able to set in the editor which tech allow you to upgrade, it's up to you to use a tech from a different "era".


Originally posted by Mithadan
Travel along rivers would be neat, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, Steph.

I think river will give a small bonus to movement if you follow it. However, it will not be as in CivII (1/3). In fact, it will be a minimum between the river and the terrain. So if grassland = 1, river = 2, desert = 2, and forest = 5, then the cost will be 1 in grassland (with a river or not), 2 in desert (with a river or not), and 5 in forest without river, and 2 in a forest with river.


Originally posted by Mithadan

Have you given thought to civilisations or cities changing names as time goes on? Like "Babylon" eventually turning into "Baghdad" once those "Mesopotamians" turn into "Arabs" in the middle ages? Stuff like that? Something to emulate the fluidity of a "civ." Just wondering.

I've never thought of that. Interesting idea. I'll try to think about it, at least in the editor, even if there are no real change in the default version.

Originally posted by Mithadan

I can't believe you can just make your own game. It blows me away. I can't even find enough time to add units to my personal mod! :)
Well, it has been much more easier than I feared. When I started about 6 weeks ago, I had never worked with graphics, and I'm using a language which is relatively new to me. So I'm learning a lot, that's why it's fun to try.

Originally posted by Kal-el
how bout "paths", "trails" or tracks for minor roads?

medium roads should just be called roads.

also it would be cool if you couldn't cross major rivers until you have built a bridge or a ferry station.

I was thinking of "trails", "roads" and "highways" for the default names.
Major rivers should be crossable, but will take the whole turn to do so.

Originally posted by ozymandias

... While I'm one of my two or three standard "terrain rants" :D may I suggest being able to limit certain units to rail travel only!! This not only accomodates the heavy guns like "Dora" and "Big Bertha", it also (i) allows for the incredible importance of armored trains from the Russian Civil War through WW2 and (ii) could even simulate President Ray-gun's notion of shuttling American ICBMs around railroads like so many peas in a shell game.
Oz
Already in my todo list.

Here are some marsh terrain stolen from MEM :o

Quand réaliserez vous une démo ? Qu'on regarde nous-même ? :)

Originally posted by Steph
Here are some marsh terrain stolen from MEM :o Smoking Mirror made two versions, you might want to check the other version out too(in case you havent already:))

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50964

I've also started to work on something a bit different.

Here is a view of the map, with mixed graphic files (Womok and Snoopy's).

With this little feature (really early stage), you can specifiy individually which file to use for the terrain

And you see the result immediately. It should be useful to test different graphics and check they match correctly.

Of course, in a final version, all the different terrains (hills, vegetation, etc) will be listed, it will be possible to change the folder (keeping the same file names), or even to change the name of the files.

The configuration will be saved with your scenario.

Tiles improvment will work differently. More on that later.

Originally posted by Lachlan
Quand réaliserez vous une démo ? Qu'on regarde nous-même ? :)
Patience, patience! Je n'ai commencé le projet qu'il y a 6 semaines, et j'ai encore beaucoup de travail dessus en perspective.

And BTW, Lachlan, could you speak in English, please ? We're not supposed to use another language here (well... OK, just a little, but that's our little secret ! :rolleyes: ). And Steph is like a monster : starting a new game almost from scratch, all alone... Don't ask for too much ! ;)

Also, Steph, what you basically say is that your utility can check if 2 different terrain sets match together ? That's cool ! Here it appears they do... :D

Originally posted by kryszcztov
And Steph is like a monster : starting a new game almost from scratch, all alone... Don't ask for too much ! ;)


Are you implying that monsters start new games from scratch? :p I understand what you said, but I have never seen it worded that way :)

GIDustin

Originally posted by kryszcztov
Also, Steph, what you basically say is that your utility can check if 2 different terrain sets match together ? That's cool ! Here it appears they do... :D

In fact it doesn't. It's just that the twi sets are matching together, so it work.

No, what I say is you can replace a graphics file with another while the game is runing, you don't need to restart.

Steph, do you mean you intend using the same principle as for Civ3, tiles with borders ?
I dunno how much better it looks (well, actually I k,ow it does not look too squarish) but I know it is much different to mod since you basically have all the different mergings to do.

Darn, there are a lot of French people in this thread

Originally posted by LouLong
Steph, do you mean you intend using the same principle as for Civ3, tiles with borders ?
I dunno how much better it looks (well, actually I k,ow it does not look too squarish) but I know it is much different to mod since you basically have all the different mergings to do.
Yep, that's what I do. This way, I can use all CivIII graphics, including mods. But it's true the merging is more difficult, that's why the basic terrains will be fixed (well, you will be able to rename them in the editor, and change their attributes, but their number will be fixed).

This evening I have added brush sizes (3x3, 5x5 and 7x7).

Make creating bigger map much easier !

I'll try to make the load and save tomorrow, and then I need to clean a few things (like when you turn grassland into sea, it would be better if the vegetation is turn to none at the same time :D).

Then the first beta version, without customization, should be ready.

Originally posted by Peregrin_Took
Darn, there are a lot of French people in this thread

There are quite a few Americans too. :p
And we seem to be interested in C&C, look at Steph's signature, LPLB (French too) has created the Lost Civ mod, and I try to add my little stone too :)

I know you are really not working on much in the way of game mechanics yet, but I had to post this idea while it struck me.

I always thought the single leader of a Civ throughout its entire history was sort of a cop out on the developers part. It seems it was done partially out of the time/MB's it saved and partially because "it was always that way."

The idea, which I suggested before in another CFC Forum thread a long time ago, came to my mind when I discovered this thread.

Here it is in a nutshell. Instead of leader names you could have leader types that would add another aspect to your civ for a certain period of time. Changing a leader type could be similar to changing a goverment in Civ3 where for a period of time you would get no benefit from a certain leader type. Kind of like a "lame duck period" for the leader you currently have.

There could be names associated with particular leader styles to fit each Civ. May take a bit of research to come up with names/pictures for each.

Anyway, just an idea that I thought would have made Civ3 a better game.

Originally posted by Steph
The highest the road level, the more trade it will generate. It will also increase the speed of units : ie minor road will not increase the speed, but allow mouvement in forest / mountains...

I now have a question about railroad. How should they work with roads?
The normal historical progression should be :
- Minor roads -> medium roads -> railroads -> major roads.

However, I'd like to allow railroads to carry large troops other great distance, and major roads will not do this.

IMHO, I think major roads should be able to do more that railroads. The interstate system here in the US was built for quick mobilization of large military forces. Here is my road idea:
paths/trails- 1 commerce, movement in forest, mountain
roads- 2 commerce, 1/2 movement
railroads- 3 commerce, 1 shield (?), 1/4 movement w/ penalty
highways- 2 commerce, 1/6 movement

paths --> roads--> highways
Railroads being separate, and their movement cancelled by highways on the same tile. This would allow RR-only units and still have highways.

Originally posted by Steph


Hills and mountains are a first overlay, then forest and jungle are a second overlay.
This mean you can have a forested tundra hills, or a mountainous jungle.

For Swmap, I'm waiting nice graphics to add them, they will be in the same overlay as forest and jungle, can exist only in grassland and on flat terrain (I don't see the point for Swmap in desert mountain:D)

:goodjob: :D
I just thought of something: how about sea overlays like rifts or volcanoes like in CTP?

Originally posted by Steph

Yep, that's what I do. This way, I can use all CivIII graphics, including mods. But it's true the merging is more difficult, that's why the basic terrains will be fixed (well, you will be able to rename them in the editor, and change their attributes, but their number will be fixed).

You know, I have no idea how difficult this would be, but --

Of course having a straightforward, "checkerboard" or "graph paper" layout of tiles means that the distance travelled on the diagonal is greater than either a horizontal or vertical move.

If the hex-rows can be staggered (so that one tile-side of one tile will border two one-half tile sides of two other tiles) then the arrangement will approximate those of hexagons (familiar to all good, paper-and-cardboard wargamers ;) ) meaning that a move from any tile to any other adjacent tile will represent an equal distance. There will be six adjacent tiles instead of nine -- blessing or curse from a development POV?

All The Best,

Oz

Originally posted by Judge Dredd
Here it is in a nutshell. Instead of leader names you could have leader types that would add another aspect to your civ for a certain period of time. Changing a leader type could be similar to changing a goverment in Civ3 where for a period of time you would get no benefit from a certain leader type. Kind of like a "lame duck period" for the leader you currently have.

There could be names associated with particular leader styles to fit each Civ. May take a bit of research to come up with names/pictures for each.


In the first version, I won't have leaderhead at all. Leaders will be abstracted : I don't see their real use in game.
Later, I may try something like in Europa Universalis, with real leader for each civ, changing on a regular basis, each one with specific bonuses / maluses. But it may be difficult given the time scale

Originally posted by LouLong

look at Steph's signature
Yes, I happened to do a few little things :o

Originally posted by WWWeasel


:goodjob: :D
I just thought of something: how about sea overlays like rifts or volcanoes like in CTP?

Could do this in version 2, if I add sea colonies

Originally posted by ozymandias

Of course having a straightforward, "checkerboard" or "graph paper" layout of tiles means that the distance travelled on the diagonal is greater than either a horizontal or vertical move.
Oz
The distance difference is far less than the distorsion implied by using a flat representation of the earth. So I don't think it really matters, except for specific maps for scenario

Originally posted by ozymandias


If the hex-rows can be staggered (so that one tile-side of one tile will border two one-half tile sides of two other tiles) then the arrangement will approximate those of hexagons (familiar to all good, paper-and-cardboard wargamers ;) ) meaning that a move from any tile to any other adjacent tile will represent an equal distance. There will be six adjacent tiles instead of nine -- blessing or curse from a development POV?
Oz

I think it would be very difficult to do, and won't give much advantages.

Perhaps when day I'll do a hexagon version, but it won't be before quite a long time. because it means new graphics for everything

Originally posted by Steph

Perhaps when day I'll do a hexagon version, but it won't be before quite a long time. because it means new graphics for everything

This is why I so often open any posts re: graphics by announing myself as a self-proclaimed "graphical ignoramus" :crazyeye: . When I made the suggestion, it never occured to me that every tile connection would of course need to be redone.

C'est la guerre. :)

-Oz

Just to let you know that I have implemented load and save feature.

A 30x30 map, including all the different kind of items (road, irrigation, mines, etc) tales about 400 kb.

Eeer... (shy)... will it be possible to alternate terrains (ex : one turn = one month, December to February have winter terrain) ? and since on a world map not all terrains have winter counterparts, is it possible to define which ones will change ?:o
Congratulations on the first step, Steph, hope to try to make a map soon.

Sure you can. As you can ingame substitute graphics file without reloading, every time winter come, you can manually load a new terrain set to get winter terrain :D

I've added the Fog of war. Yes, it means you could decide what is known by every civ with the editor.

I'm not 100% with the way it look though...

After some testing, I have found a way to GREATLY increase the loading time of the application.
Basically, it means that all the graphics files have to be cut in advance (for instance, instead of 1 xdpg.pcx, I have 81 files, xdpg_0_0.gif, xdpg_0_1.gif).

To keep modding relatively easy, the graphics settings tools will come with a utility to cut a civIII files in separate files.

Graphics will be organized that way in folders :

GFX
--MAP
----Terrain
------XDGP
--------81 files here
------WCSO
--------81 files here
----Hills
------Grassland
------- 16 files here
------Grassland + forest
--------16 files here
----Vegetation
...


If you want to change the set, you will have to pick a new folder at the "XDGP level".

So how convert CivIII graphics into SSS:
- Open the PCX with PSP, convert it to gif, and set the transparency color
- Load SSS. In the gfx settings toolbox, select the big gif, cut it and save the result in a specific folder.
- Done!

Do you think it's OK for you?

cant u include a auto shift in terrain at spesific months as well?? Also food production in the winter would be slowed down.. This could create "awsome" and very realistic starvations...

Not in the first version.

Because this first version will be a "world version", with several years turns (so seasons have no real reason to be in).

When this version work fine (in a few years ;) ? ) I will extend the system to allow lower scale scenario, including seasonal changes.

But I have one big prerequesite : find a graphist to make the terrain for me!

I have you looked at Apolyton CTP2 (www.apolyton.net/ctp2) recently? they are releasing the source code for Call to POwer 2. whether you like the game or not, you might be able to make improvements or get ideas on your own simulation

As I've played a lot CTP2, I don't need the source code tog et ideas I think. But it could be nice to see how they implemented it. Thanks.

Originally posted by Steph
But I have one big prerequesite : find a graphist to make the terrain for me!
Doesn't PTW have a winter terrain set included? That would cover most of the work.

It's not enough. I have more graphics than CivIII, with forested plain hill or tundra mountains. So I'm already using some of PTW winter graphics, and I miss others.

The new welcome screen, where you can select the rules.
The first line is the default rules.
The other lines will be filled with what you save, or premade rules.

For the moment, the rules include only the files to the graphics.

Soon, they will include a variable number of levels for farming, mining, villages, fortification, fortress, roads, etc.

It will not be possible to add a new kind of improvement, but you could add a new level.
So you will have to stay with
- Farming
- Mining
- Airbase
- Harbour
- Fortress
- Outpost
- Foritified border
- Colonies
- Plateform
- Roads
- Railroads
- Villages

There will be no era, no culture limit.

The fortress graphics for instance won't change with era. Instead, you can specify several level of fortress, associate each of them with a tech, and your upgrade the fortress to the new level (and new graphics). So if you make 1 level for each era, you have a graphical change /era, but it's not mandatory.

Steph, sorry if it's been asked, but is there a new ETA for the editor?

Yes. Later :p
The first version was ready, but quite long to load.
The new version can load a LOT faster, so I think I should finish it before release, and release directly version 0.2

No screenshot today, but still some progress report.

The change of format to speed the loading time is going well.

Bad news : now, it doesn't use anymore the wCSO.pcx or xdgp.pcx we are used to, but it used a graphics package 'my own format). So it may seem converting CivIII graphics to SSS is not that easy.

Good news : this is a false impression, because I have included a format convertir : just pick your file, and you get my format!

The first stage of the rule editor is almost finished.

I've completly reworked the graphics format and the eidtor toolbox.

It is now completly build dynamically (menu, text and icons) from the current rules.

So if you add a new level of fortification, it shows immediately in the toolbox with the correct graphics.

I'll post some screenies soon.

Very nice :king:

Quick view at the new editor toolbox. The icons now come from the actual gfx file used. You can change the level of mines or the type of terrain, releif by right clicking on the button

Do you mean "platform" instead of "plateform"? Just checking... :)

French : plateforme
English : platform

Compromise for international version : plateform. Or do you prefer platforme? ;)

Anyway, the name can be changed with the editor.

:lol: You crack me up, Steph!

looks cool:goodjob:

The new editor is going well.

The tool box is finished. The graphical part of the terrain editor also : you can now select what graphics file you want for coast, hills, etc, and change them on the fly.

Next step; do the same for tile improvment (farms, mines, etc)...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_Editor.jpg

Hey, of you want to find skilled artists, look in the computer talk forum. has heaps of skilled computer-know-alls.

Whoa haven't been playin much civ, too much school and ap classes, Steph looking Great :goodjob: but its been a week any mroe progress, look like the release date is in sometime this year? keep it up man

I'm still working on it, but it has slow down a bit with the birth of my daughter this week.

The map editor should be ready in a few weeks.
For the game itself, I have no idea at all yet.

Could be in the year... Could in 100 years. Don't know..

Right on, Steph! Do u know of SMAC? Well, it's govt/social structure system is perfect, if it was slightly more detailed! I can't wait until this game comes out!

Originally posted by Steph
I'm still working on it, but it has slow down a bit with the birth of my daughter this week.

The map editor should be ready in a few weeks.
For the game itself, I have no idea at all yet.

Could be in the year... Could in 100 years. Don't know..

Congratulations! Or should I say condolences? Either way, well done.

Though, this still doesn't hold me back from BEGGING for SSS to be released!

OMG man that is so great congratulations, well yea i don't want u to neglect ur daughter over a computer game, yet i still really really really really really really want u to release it asap man i love your ideas so far and looks like u've gotten the graphics and map stuff all figured out, again if theres anything Anything i can do please tell me :crazyeye:

What I need the most right now is someone to make a new terrain graphics set (similar to Snoopy's or Womok).

The main problem is I have more graphics than civ III, like desert hill, grassland hill, etc. I've tried to do them myself, but the colors are not very nice. So if someone is willing to make these extended terrain graphics, to get a nice and smooth result, it would be quite nice.

It could be simply taking existing graphics and adjusting colors (that's what I did), or making completly new graphics.

I have only two constraints :
- The number of graphic files is fixed
- For every graphics, the size is fixed (as in CivIII), and the shape or borders for mountains and hills is fixed (or the fortification will not work well on them).

I would also appreciate is basic terrain is redone by someone, in a different way that they are now : currently, the grassland and desert coast extend outside the square, and for plains and tundra, the coast extends in the square. It leads to some problems when placing rivers on the edge of squares...

Here are some updates. This time the tile improvment editor.

First, a map with some farming. When you open the tile editor, you get a list of all the available levels. Then, if you click on one of them, you have the gfx files used for the different terrain on the right. If you click on one of them, you have a preview picture.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_TileEditor1.jpg

Now, you can change attributes for this level in the rules area. Only the name is available right now, later you will also find game effects (like food bonus, cost, etc).

If you double click on the gfx file path, you get a file selection windows, you can then pick a new file, and change the gfx.

It is immediately changed in the tile editor (preview), in the toolbox, and on the map.

No tinkering with pediaicons.txt : everything is done within the editor!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_TileEditor2.jpg

You will also notice you can delete a level, or add a new one. For that I have a question.

If you delete an item, the map should be updated, but I have two ways to do it, and I want to know what is your preference.

Suppose the 3 levels are used, and you delete level 2 (so you have level 1 and level 3 in the toolbox).
- Solution 1: Level 1 tile are unchanged. Level 2 are transformed into level 3.
- Solution 2 : level 1 tile are unchanged, as well as level 3. level 2 are "deleted", as this level doesn't exist anymore.

Similar question with the new : shall I add it at the end, and no tile will have this level initially, you need to add it, or shall I insert it between other levels. In that case, shall I change the existing tiles?
Exemple I have level1, 2 3. and insert a level 4 between 2 and 3.
-> level 3 tiles remain level 3?
-> level 3 become level 4, and there no level 3?

I'm not sure I've been very clear in my question :crazyeye:

You never should transform from one level to another without asking the user. The solution for your problem is to create an additional sort number. The tiles only know the levelnumber but not the sortnumber.


level | sortno | name | ...
-------|--------|------------|-------
1 | 1 | early farm | ...
2 | 2 | irrigation | ...
3 | 3 | greenhouse | ...

and now 'delete' the level 'irrigation'

level | sortno | name | ...
-------|--------|------------|-------
1 | 1 | early farm | ...
2 | | {deleted} |
3 | 2 | greenhouse | ...

and ask the user "Transform the tiles with deleted level?" If the answer is "yes" you can ask "Transform to what - Early farm or greenhouse?"
the last step is to delete the row

level | sortno | name | ...
-------|--------|------------|-------
1 | 1 | early farm | ...
3 | 2 | greenhouse | ...


same way by inserting a new level

level | sortno | name | ...
-------|--------|------------|-------
1 | 1 | early farm | ...
3 | 2 | greenhouse | ...
4 | 3 | new level | ...
5 | 4 | new level2 | ...

and sorting the list

level | sortno | name | ...
-------|--------|------------|-------
4 | 1 | new level | ...
1 | 2 | early farm | ...
5 | 3 | new level2 | ...
3 | 4 | greenhouse | ...

I hope my examples are understandable :crazyeye:

On a second thought, when you delete a level, it's not sure that all the tile with the deleted level should transform to another : some irrigation should become early farm, other greenhouse...

To keep it simple, I will simply delete the old tile, without transformation.

I don't know for you, but I've always found it quie irretating, when trying my mod to get the message "File X is missing, the game will now exit".

First, it takes time to load and exit.
Second, if you have 50 erros, you need to launch 50 times to correct everything :mad:

This won't happen with SSS. When you try to load a set of rules, SSS will check the existence of all the files. If at least one is missing, a error log is displayed, and it shows all the errors, not only the first one.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_ErrorLog.jpg

SSS doesn't stop in case of error, it skips the file and resume loading.

The faulty file will not be displayed (like the coast for the screenshot hereunder), but the game will run fine otherwise.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_Errors.jpg

To correct the errors, you can go to your explorer, rename the files, etc, and then start again (but it's a lot easier than with CivIII as you have a list of all the errors).
You can also use the editor : faulty files are displayed in red. Simply double click on the line to get the open file dialog, and pick the correct one. Problem solved at run time ; the display is corrected, you don't even have to exit the program.

Now we are getting somewhere! I take it that you will be soon adding game mechanics? You should write a game design document, so you know exactly what you want.

Version 0.1 already done.

Before adding game mechanism, I want to finish the game graphical engine:
- Add units animation
- Add information (city names, units hitpoints, etc).

And then play a bit with these units : move them, make them attack, die, etc.

Sorry for this use of French, he will understand better :

Steph, j'aimerais que les avions et autres unités volantes se comportent comme dans Civ2 est-ce possible ? Dans SSS je l'entends bien sûr ;)

Originally posted by Lachlan
Steph, j'aimerais que les avions et autres unités volantes se comportent comme dans Civ2 est-ce possible ? Dans SSS je l'entends bien sûr ;)
Here is a translation of the question :
"I'd like the planes and other flying units could work has in Civ2, is it possible? In SSS of course".

My answer :
The editor will be quite flexible. As default, aircraft should work as in CivIII, but it will be possible to change them.
Note that realistic helicopters will be included.

Wait and see... I think I'll start working on the unit editor next week, you will have a better idea of the possibilites then.

Originally posted by Steph

Here is a translation of the question :
"I'd like the planes and other flying units could work has in Civ2, is it possible? In SSS of course".

My answer :
The editor will be quite flexible. As default, aircraft should work as in CivIII, but it will be possible to change them.
Note that realistic helicopters will be included.

Wait and see... I think I'll start working on the unit editor next week, you will have a better idea of the possibilites then.


Awsome:goodjob:

The tile improvment editor is "finished". It allows adding or deleting improvment, renaming it, and selecting the associated graphics.

No game effect yet.

I only have to do the saving and loading of a set of rules, and the map editor will be ready for beta test.

And then, unit animation!

Steph,

How do you will implement the Victory Points Location ?
And will we be able to select a different graphic for each different Victory Point ??? :crazyeye:

No idea, I haven't thought about victory yet.

Load/Save of maps and rules finished.

I just have to make the load/save for scenario (rules + map), and the beta version of the map editor (without units and resources) will be ready. Shoiuld be done by tomorrow evening.

Scenario load and save done. It means the beta editor is done...

Thunderfall has agreed to host my project here. So now I need to create a website to present the project and upload the files.

A bit more patience...

Originally posted by Steph
Thunderfall has agreed to host my project here. So now I need to create a website to present the project and upload the files.

A bit more patience...

Coooool !!! :cool: What does it mean exactly ? You're talking about hosting the game at CFC but set up a website for it... A little puzzled... :confused:

This is really going good ! I'm awaiting every update in this thread all the time, though I will be far from help right now (graphics issues DEFINITELY aren't my thing). Nice that Thunderfall let you do your business here. :)

What's the next (2nd) step ?

CFC can propose small personal account, where you can post a web site dedicated to a civ project.
It's far easier to organize and describe the game info that way.

So next steps are :
- Setting the website, and release the beta of the map editor,
- Let people try it and give feedback for a while,
- Unit animation and unit editor. I want to test performances when the screen is full of units. This step will probably quite long, as I have lot of issues to solve.
- Add cities and villages in the editor.
- Add resources
- Add on map text for units / city name, production, etc.

After that, I will start to code the game itself, adding rules as they are needed, and updating the editor to include them.

But I think I will make a pause once the website is set, I need to work on my Role Playing Game. I need to finished weapon drawings, and to finish the character editing program.

Website is up! It's there (http://www.civfanatics.net/~steph)

I've done this very quickly, so it's far from perfect, but it should be enough to start.

Warning : don't forget all the buttons! If you get an empty page, try to navigate further with the left navigation bar, I didn't fill all the pages yet.

I hope the game gets up soon!:D I'll tell ya how it is once its up.;)

go steph, this mod looks awsome *clap clap clap*

Originally posted by Soulreaver
go steph, this mod looks awsome *clap clap clap*

It's not a mod. It's a new game.

Some new terrains added today.

Credits to Snoopy!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SSS_031113_Marsh.jpg

You can see the Volcanos, the marsh and the swamps.

I'm currently working on the website, where I'm adding a small user's manual for beta testers.

The beta version of the map editor should be available soon.

I also have a request : can someone make me some nice savannah graphics?

They should follow the forest format, and will be used in flat plain terrain.

Last request : Volcano can exist in Desert, Tundra, or Plain, but I only have grassland graphics, so they don't blend well. So if someone can make new version...

Originally posted by Steph


It's not a mod. It's a new game.
ya, what was I thinking... its awsome

I haven't really been following this thread. But, I've looked through it today, and I have to say this seems a massive undertaking and you should be congratulated. It looks great, and I look forward to playing it. If you would like any assistance from my limited skills let me know.

Can you make savannah terrain graphics Kindred? :D I can't, but I wish I could!

If you want to test the beta version of the map editor, you can go to SSS website, files are available in the download section.

Loulong has checked the installation works on another computer.

So? Anyone tried it?

I have a feeling everyone is indulging in conqests at the moment.

I will try to test it tomorrow.

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man
I have a feeling everyone is indulging in conqests at the moment.

C'mon, I'm not the only one who has not received it from Amazon yet, am I? :(

No, C3C is overdue here, and as such I cant play it. Which is why I am offering to check your new game out tomorrow.

Originally posted by Steph
So? Anyone tried it?
Yes accually I have, very fun steph. Keep up the good work, Im also waiting for c3c from amazon :crazyeye:

Yes, I have too, it's amazing, keep up the great work!
I have a few thoughts, but this is a beta, so I know none of them matter and you'll probably put the in anyway, like being able to delete things you've put on the map and being able to scroll w/o having to use the global view. Also as a side note, the walls (fortifications) don't line up and the brick (the second level) isn't in the same plain as the rest, it's set back a bit, but that's fixable by graphics people.
Overall though, this is amazing! You've even got snowy hills on terrain!
This is amazing and I eagrly anticipate the final release.

Unfortunately, I get a weird error message, so I can't play it.:(

Did you download that other windows file? Steph has a link to it on his website, and when it asks you where you want to install it too, install it to whatever folder you put SSS into. I got a weird error too, but that fixed it.

Put it in SSS folder???Ooooooh.....I'll try again....

Im downloading it now:)

I get an error message when I try to run the program. I installed the two files from your website, and the microsoft file.

edit-got it working. I didn´t realise that you had to install the framework twice.

Well steph, even with c3c you still got quite a audience looking at your editor

The Editor is fantastic, though I have some trouble scrolling

Damn! The microsoft install thingie, tells me I need a newer version of Internet Explorer, but I can't get the installation of IE 6.0 to work either... :mad: Any ideas? Oh yeah, and I use Win98...

Originally posted by Yoda Power
edit-got it working. I didn´t realise that you had to install the framework twice.

:confused:

Originally posted by Warlord 101
The Editor is fantastic, though I have some trouble scrolling

What do you mean. It is to slow, or just using the scrollbars is not easy?

Originally posted by computerdude113
Yes, I have too, it's amazing, keep up the great work!
I have a few thoughts, but this is a beta, so I know none of them matter and you'll probably put the in anyway, like being able to delete things you've put on the map and being able to scroll w/o having to use the global view. Also as a side note, the walls (fortifications) don't line up and the brick (the second level) isn't in the same plain as the rest, it's set back a bit, but that's fixable by graphics people.
Overall though, this is amazing! You've even got snowy hills on terrain!
This is amazing and I eagrly anticipate the final release.

Have you tried to right click on a button in the toolbox? You have a menu where you can select different option, including "None" : it is used to delete what you have put on the map (but you have to delete one by one : delete the roads, delete the relief, delete the vegetation, there's no "delete all" yet).
You can scroll without the global view : just use the scrollbars!

Funny, i don't see scrollbars, I'll look again. What screen res do I need, I have 1024x768 up.
As for the delete, I didn't know that that was the delete thing, the none. That's all I was looking for anyway, being able to delete like improvements that I've put on.
Again, great, thanks for the clarification!

I tryed the editor really cool, but when do you think the base game will be done.

Originally posted by computerdude113
Funny, i don't see scrollbars, I'll look again. What screen res do I need, I have 1024x768 up.

Er... I'm at 1600x1200... The windows is 1200x1024 so the scrollbars are probably somewhere to the right and bottom of you screen :D

I'll try to adapt the size of the window to your screen resolution in the next version of the beta.

Originally posted by Bobisback
I tryed the editor really cool, but when do you think the base game will be done.

In a long time from now, in a galaxy far, far away...

It will depends on many things, one of them being the "recruiting" of people to help me. If I'm alone, it can take many months.

What do you mean. It is to slow, or just using the scrollbars is not easy?

The Scrollbars aren't visible at all. And the only other option is to scoll via the Arrow Keys and that often doesn't work.

Steph, I can only see the Vertical scroll, but if I need more res Ill fix it. Also, I will help in anyway possible to help to complete just send me a PM

I can help build the game in the sense of adding units, building mods for the game, and stuff like that but I can't do coding.:(

Well, when the units and rules editor will be finished, I don't plan to add all the units by hand myself, so you could help then. But it will not be available before quite a while

Steph the editor is nice, but:

1. Its too slow. The civ3 editor feels like painting terrain. Yours is very annoying when you are used to civ3.

2. The rivers and roads placement is hard to figure out, but that just might be me;)

Anyway it still looks great:thumbsup: and I still hold my offer to make a world map, just give me some more time to learn the editor;)

For speed, when you say it is slow, do you mean that:
- It takes time to respond after a click (performance issue)
- After a click, the change is immediate, but you find it boring to have to click to often (ergonomy issue).

In the later case, I can try to allow painting the map as in civ3.
In the first case, I can't.

About rivers and roads, it may be because there's no user's manual yet.

For rivers : set the grid display on, click on the hedge between two squares (do not click to close from a corner, right in the middle is easier). Note it doesn't work as in civ 3: you can have a square with rivers on 3 sides, but not the 4th.

For roads : click in a square, then in the next one. The two squares will be linked by a road. A square is NOT linked automatically to all adjacent squares which have roads, you need to link all of them manually.
The road feature has a "memory", meaning you can click on several squares to set the road (the last click will be the beginning of the next road). To reset this, and start a new road, right click and start again.


And don't spend to much time on a world map yet, I will not guarantee it can be loaded with the next versions of the editor, I will do this only after it's stable.

Its actually both cases(bugger eh?)

I dont plan to start on a world map any time soon, and only if you feel you need one.

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Its actually both cases(bugger eh?)

What are you computer specs? What size of map?

AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1600+
1,41 GHz
256 MB Ram

Just the standard opening size.

Hey steph VERY VERY NICE

Incredible i love the fortification feature, i enjoyed it but i want more more more! i want to put units and put up rules and what not then i wanna play HURRY UP!! LOL :goodjob: KEEP IT UP!

Originally posted by Incubus0223
Hey steph VERY VERY NICE
..what not then i wanna play HURRY UP!! LOL :goodjob: KEEP IT UP!

You mean we can play game? :eek: Not only mode them? :eek:

Originally posted by Steph


You mean we can play game? :eek: Not only mode them? :eek: No offence, but isn´t that joke getting old?

Originally posted by Yoda Power
No offence, but isn´t that joke getting old?

So am I, so am I. We need young inovative people like you Yoda. Elder one like me are to "conservative".

Originally posted by Steph


So am I, so am I. We need young inovative people like you Yoda. Elder one like me are to "conservative". well that explains things:lol:

May I ask how the project coming along?

It's on hold until I finish my mod for PTW.
Lot of works at the office, hard to work on several projects at the same time at home.

But I'm still discussing ideas by email with some of you.

I'm glad to listen it from you :)

Have you done any work on this recently?

Not much, I've started the units animation, by I'm very busy at work, with lot of travel, so I'm not at home long enough to work on it :(

Are you sticking to Civ units, or do you have new ideas for them?

SSS will come with a powerfull unit editor. It will not use directly CivIII units, but it should be relatively easy to convert CivIII into SSS.
I'm planning more features, and I hope some of the best graphics guys here will be interested to make new units.

You should include Dom Pedro's Cut and Paste Pack (if he every completes it...) so that those of us without poser can make human units. If you can, you should make it support FLCs, because there are so many FLC units already out there, and for this type of thing, they are the standard. Also, I can't wait :). The river canyons are amazing, just amazing!

Steph, could you upload the latest version I need somthing to play with.(my computer that has Steph's mod on it does not work so I am taking a break form Steph's mod)

Anyway I have some ideas, I would email these ideas but I want everyone to comment on them;) well my frist idea is about walls and forts, I was thinking and I figured out a easy way to put it in you can have walls built by workers and walls have alot of health(like 15 to 18 health) then when a unit attacks a wall it does one health point every time it "turn" (no matter what unit) and if you put a archer in the wall it does one health point to the attacking unit every "turn"(when I mean turn I mean every time the unit swings has sword or shoots has bow and arrow ect, ect.) and if you have two archers then it does two health point ect, ect. This wood make it hard to attack walls witch was true back then, but if you have a catapult you can bombard the wall for health points depending on the bombard str. and the archers can not do much about it but it gives the Defender some time to reinforce the square. and forts should just give a defense bonus. Just some ideas I had:)

posted by Bobisback well my frist idea is about walls and forts, I was thinking and I figured out a easy way to put it in you can have walls built by workers and walls have alot of health(like 15 to 18 health) then when a unit attacks a wall it does one health point every time it "turn" (no matter what unit) and if you put a archer in the wall it does one health point to the attacking unit every "turn"(when I mean turn I mean every time the unit swings has sword or shoots has bow and arrow ect, ect.) and if you have two archers then it does two health point ect, ect. This wood make it hard to attack walls witch was true back then, but if you have a catapult you can bombard the wall for health points depending on the bombard str. and the archers can not do much about it but it gives the Defender some time to reinforce the square. and forts should just give a defense bonus.
That sounds good. However, I think there should be some random factor to how many points of damage a unit does to a wall or fort (maybe 1-3). Also, 15-18 is too much health. Maybe 5-8 depending on the era. Walls should only be able to hold for a turn or 2.
Also, only forts should be able to have a defender in them.

The latest released beta version is on the website.

Regarding wall,and fort, they will be useless without troops to man them.
Walls will give a defense bonus, and will also prevent bypass. Fort will give supply points qnd defense bonus.
Both will have a positive effects on settlers.

They will not be build by workers.

How will they be built (sorry if this was said somewhere else).

It should be closer to CTP Public Work

Originally posted by Steph
It should be closer to CTP Public Work


Sounds good to me:goodjob:

CTP Public Work? Could someone please explain?


*resumes lurking*

The tile improvement in CTP was buided with Public Work Points collected in percentile of production of the civ ...

Originally posted by torrasque
CTP Public Work? Could someone please explain?


*resumes lurking*



You civs production is say 500 you "will"(might) have i bar that takes say 0%-100% of that 500 production and turn it in to Public Works. hope that helps.

Originally posted by torrasque
CTP Public Work? Could someone please explain?


*resumes lurking*

Rather than have a worker build a road etc., tile improvements in Call To Power are paid for from a central treasury.

-Oz

Originally posted by torrasque
CTP Public Work? Could someone please explain?


*resumes lurking*

yeah, what they said :lol:

Different PW projects became available with new technology, and once you had enough money you selected the project and plopped it down on the map. Most improvements took a few turns to complete (the pictures changed as they neared completion *hint hint* ;) ) It was a good system but I still prefer using workers, maybe just because I'm a Civ loyalist :lol:

For Steph : What do you think if planes play as in Civ2 ?
No bombarbard with B button but direct attack against unit or cities :goodjob:

Planes will not work as in Civ2, but rather as in civ III, with difference. The main ones being :
- You can set a course, to try bypassing a neutral territory, or a heavy defended area
- The plances can be used for tactical or strategical effects.

Do you have any ideas on how resources and supply lines are going to work.;) I have some ideas but I wood like to here yours frist:rolleyes:

You can find a description on the website.
Here is a summary:
- First, resources are needed to create a unit and to maintain it. Resources are gathered every turn, and used every turn.
So if you control 10 oils, and a tank unit need 1 oil for maintenance, your army cannot have more than 10 tanks. And then you won't have plane nor ships... Note that a square can produce several units. A square with an oil resource can produce 10 oil, or 5 or 20... So some squares will be very valuable.
- Second, the game will have strategical turn, where you move units on the map, and tactical turns, to solve battles.
At the end of the strategical turn, a uniut which is to far from friendly line, and thus cannot get resources will suffer attrition. The distance will very with logistic techs

Sounds awsome:goodjob:

Originally posted by Steph
A square with an oil resource can produce 10 oil, or 5 or 20... So some squares will be very valuable.
:worship: Finally, a good, realistic resorce system!!

One little thing: could you make pipelines required for transporting oil, instead of roads? Offshore rigs?
*begins planning Gulf War mod :D*

pipeline will be abtsracted given the scale But oil rig will be i. In favt, a resource will often need an improvment.
If you want iron or coal, you need a mine/ The bigger the mine (mines are upgradable), the more you get. Same with roads. you get some resource even without roads, but with roads you will get more.

It has been a long time without news!

So here are some, with a screenshot of the unit editor, early stage. I still have lot to do.

Here is the graphics page of the unit editor.
On the left, you can select with the famous OpneFile DialogBox the files for the animation. You simply need a 256 colors gif storyboard.

When you select a picture, the Frames DropList proposes all the possible number of frames (ie that match the storyboard width), you must select the correct one.
You then get the frame size.

You have a preview of the unit. You can change the background to have a better view.
In red, you get a civ III square, so you can correct the centering. The green square is simply the outline of the frame size.

You can change the orientation by clicking on the Compass.
Witht the slider, you can select a specific frame (so if you thing there's an error somewhere, you can examin it in details, where Flicster has no "stop" function.

You can also animate your little guys and see him in action. The speed is controlled with the FPS slider. Default is 25 frames / second.

Correcting the centering is easy. First, cick with the mouse directly in the animation, where you thing the center is. You can then use the UpDown near the Center X and Center Y to make a more precise centering.

One more thing. As you see, I have planned more animation than in civ III. This means a cavalry unit could charge with his sword (Attacks, Infantry (Melee), Attack A), or could fire his gun (Attacks, Infantry (Range), Attack A). A destroyer could fire its guns at ships, AA guns at aircraft, and Depth Charge at submarines....

This part is not completly settled yet, the list of possible attacks will probably change a lot before the final version

I think my heart stoped looking at that steph.... AWSOME!

Cool:goodjob:

Sounds really good. When infantry attack a vehicle, they could run to the sides and attack from there.

But please, dont set yourself up for too much work! We want a working version of this game out more than we want situation-specific animations! If you give yourself too much to do, everyone will be disappointed.

But, so far, so good. I just wish I could help, but I lack the skills (have programming and art tools, but knowing how to use them is another story.)

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man

But please, dont set yourself up for too much work! We want a working version of this game out more than we want situation-specific animations! If you give yourself too much to do, everyone will be disappointed.


Don't worry, once the general principle for animation, adding a new one is rather easy.
Making the first animation = 95% of the work, adding situation specific animation = 5%

Here why don't you just make the editor and leave the unit adding to the fans, then we can take a load off your back.

Originally posted by Bobisback
Here why don't you just make the editor and leave the unit adding to the fans, then we can take a load off your back.

and what do you think I'm doing?

But I need to do enough animation myself to be able to test performances

Steph, if you still need any "mapmaking", I have discovered that tech :lol: and would be willing to help out.

The unit editor looks great :goodjob: So simple even I should be able to use it! :lol:

You can try to go to SSS website (see my sig), download the map editor and give it a try.

Steph, the unit editor looks great!:goodjob:

Any chance that you'll post it on the website, or is it too early for that?

I don't think anyone here has a more fitting description under their name than you Steph. I admire your work a lot and I'm following this project with great interest. It looks like it could yield pretty awesome things.

Do you program games/applications for living or is this just a hobby?

It is far to early to post on the website. I post it here only to get some comments and suggestions

Originally posted by Drift
Do you program games/applications for living or is this just a hobby?
I'm the Technical Director (hope the translation is correct) of a small French company (10 people), making software for aeronautics, based on Geographical Information Systems.

So I do program for a living, but not game. I knew nothing of graphics programming before I started to make SBB last year. And nothing about game programming before I started SSS last august.

So game programming is one of my hobbies, I do that mostly to learn C#, a new language for my : at the office I'm using C++.

I'm also writting a Role Playing Game (I've programmed the character generation tool for that to), and painting and collecting figurines.

man Steph I think Multi Many Tasks Man is a understatement;)

Just bumping this thread up so more people read it... ;)

Any progress?

read the entire(!) thread! this game looks cool, hope you can finish it :)

I downloaded the game, but I can't get the dropbars working (ex. File) and I can't get the Framework to work, I get a: "Setup cannot access Windows Installer components. Setup cannot continue." I tryed to install it in the game folder, and in the Windows file too, help!

Are you in the administrator profile of you computer, if you are then you will not get a error like that(hopefully;))

Originally posted by Bobisback
Are you in the administrator profile of you computer, if you are then you will not get a error like that(hopefully;))

I have ME, and I don't know what "administrator profile" is

You should have Win XP ;)

Do I need XP to make the game work? Or are you trying to be funny?

Was not in my mind to offence you but seems that Steph has Windows XP

I have Windows 98 and it works for me.

Don't forget to install the Windows component or it won't work. No update recently because I was busy with my job, I just come back from China