View Full Version : The Dacians


Xen
Aug 08, 2003, 09:57 PM
Of all armies in the history of our little blue ball, none can claim to be as unusual as that of the the Bosporan kingdom of the Crimea.
Involving a cosmoplitan mix of Hellenised Scythians and Sarmatians, Greeks colonists, Sindi and Maiotian tribesmen, with occasional Thracian, Alan and even Roman troops and thrown in for good measure a nice line in field artillery!

but this merlly an introduction to a better more descriptive article by a friend of mine, a Mr. Arian ****** ( last name fudged to protect the innocent)-

The Dacians inhabited an area roughly corresponding to ancient Thrace (modern Yugoslavia) and like their predecessors had a reputation for ferocity and warlike behaviour that brought them into conflict with the might of the Roman Empire. Dacian raids across the River Danube became more than a nuisance during the 2nd century AD and resulted in huge resources being targeted against a relatively minor people.

The Dacians were allied with other local peoples, namely the Bastarnae and later the Carpi, while also maintaining cordial and co-operative relations with the Sarmatians, one of the most restless, aggressive and impetuous folk that the ancient world produced. It may have been the fear of an overwhelming coalition led by the Dacian kings (the most famous of whom was Decebalus) that drove the Romans to campaign so vigorously in Dacia — not always successfully. These hard-fought wars have left us with one of the ancient world’s greatest military records in the form of Trajan’s Column, which basically tells the story of a full-blown Roman campaign in strip form, wrapped around a stone column and depicted in relief.

Dacian warriors would have appeared very like other middle and northern European peoples, with beards, hair trimmed to collar length, a short-sleeved tunic, loose trousers, and leather or bark shoes. As a mountain people who lived by farming they would be healthily tanned and/or weather-beaten according to the season. They seem to have been a prosperous and active people who saw the raiding of their neighbours as a sport but the defence of their own homeland as a deadly serious business.

The Dacian army: This was composed of warrior-farmers. The commonest warrior by far would be a man in his everyday clothing armed with a number of javelins and a short sword or curved knife, his only defence a solid oval shield (often highly decorated) with an iron boss. Such men could quite easily make up over 75% of an army. The remainder would be men armed with bows who acted as scouts and skirmishers, plus a small number of men rich enough to ride around the battlefield but still dressed and equipped like the rest of the army.

Tactics and equipment: Fighting in loose swarms over difficult terrain, they could intimidate more heavily armed and armoured opponents, picking off and swamping unwary individuals or detachments but melting away if the going got too tough. The Dacians also had a couple of surprises waiting for an opponent who was able to catch them in the open field. The first was their allied Sarmatian cavalry, and the second was a terrible weapon called a falx.

Sarmatian cavalry were renowned for the ferocity of their charge, which could easily burst through all but the steadiest line of infantry or cavalry, and in an open field could be unstoppable. Armed with a 10–12 ft (3.0–3.7 m) heavy spear called a contus (literally ‘bargepole’!), wearing helmets and mail, scale or lamellar armour, and riding horses that could also have armour to protect them from missiles, they were formidable opponents even for the Roman Legions. However, they had one great flaw: their tactics were limited to the all-out charge, and a sophisticated enemy such as the Romans could defeat them with careful battlefield preparations designed to disrupt their formations before they came into contact. Although their numbers were small in Dacian armies they would be the focus of much concern to an enemy. (For more detail on the Sarmatians see the separate entry.)

The falx was a weapon peculiar to the area. Basically a curved, scythe-like blade on a wooden haft, it has been identified with the rhomphia of the earlier Thracians. There are several accounts of its shape which vary from a weapon of almost dagger size up to a large curved blade on a curved haft (apparently resulting in an ‘S’ shape). What is certain is that its effects were horrific, easily cutting through a limb or helmet. The Romans tried to counter its effectiveness by equipping chosen legionaries with heavier armour for their sword arms and lower legs and reinforcing existing helmets.

Roman campaigns: Those launched against raiding tribes usually ended with the raiders losing crops, farms and any battle they dared to offer. However, this was not the case with the Dacians. Expeditions sent to punish the Dacians in 85, 87 and 88 AD were all beaten, the first two soundly, though the last could not have been too bad a defeat since the Romans claimed it as a victory even though they ended up making all the concessions, paying tribute. Things were to change with the accession of Emperor Trajan. It was he who led two huge campaigns against the Dacians in 101 and 105 AD. The forces involved have been conservatively estimated at 12 Legions, 16 cavalry alae, 60 auxiliary cohortes and numerous guard and barbarian support units — a minimum of 80,000 troops. In 106 AD Dacia was finally incorporated into the Roman Empire, but the related Carpi tribes continued the tradition of raiding right up until the end of the 4th century.

Allies: These could constitute up to a third of a Dacian army, with the Bastarnae providing up to 20% of its warriors. Their composition differed from that of the Dacians in that they relied almost entirely on the falx, with only a few mounted nobles but supported by having foot javelinmen mixed within their formations. Sarmatians especially enjoyed raiding alongside the Dacians and could number from a few individuals to a whole tribe, so potentially up to 25% of the army could consist of Sarmatian horsemen. (See the separate section on the Sarmatians).


Enemies: The Dacians’ enemies were limited to Early Imperial Romans and Sarmatians, while the Carpi fought both of these and Middle and Later Imperial Romans too . Potentially the Carpi may have clashed with migrating German tribes and Alan nomads up until 380 AD, when they disappear from history.

THE SARMATIANS —
‘A nation most accomplished at brigandage’

In the late 4th century BC the wild steppe people collectively referred to as Sarmatians began raiding their more settled and prosperous neighbours, and they continued to do so for over 600 years until they were wiped out by the Huns. While there were many tribes, I will concentrate here on those which were allied with the Dacians and fought both for and against Imperial Rome.

Several comments survive concerning the character of the Sarmatians which, while subjective, provide something of the flavour of their armies. Apart from the quote at the head of this piece, we are told of one Sarmatian in Roman employ that ‘although a Sarmatian by birth, he is prudent and careful’. The Sarmatian way of war was very straightforward — literally!

Their warrior-class was entirely mounted. In fact we are told that ‘their cavalry is their sole useful force’ and that ‘no people is so cowardly when it comes to fighting on foot, yet when they attack on horseback, few formations can resist them’. Armour could consist of a spangenhelm helmet and a mail or scale corselet, but metal body armour was only affordable to the upper classes and most warriors substituted leather and horn scales. The leather was dyed, so could be brown, black, red, green or blue, but would not be particularly bright. Horn scales were manufactured by splitting horse hooves into small plates, which were shaped and bored with holes for laces and then sewn to a backing like any other scale armour. the color of horn armour may present problems to unit makers, as most cannot agree on the colour (bluish-green is suggested by some ancient commentators). I would recommend a very light beige/brown/white. Other equipment and clothing would be solid colours, with an added layer of grime toning it down even more. Sarmatian horses were armoured in a similar way to their riders, with horn and leather predominating and metal even rarer.

Horse armour was adopted to combat the horse-archery of the steppe nomads who constituted the Sarmatians’ main enemies. The Sarmatians themselves also carried bows but seldom seem to have used them in pitched battles, preferring an all-out charge made even more deadly by their use of the kontos (‘bargepole’), a heavy 10–12 ft (3.0–3.6 m) lance with a long heavy head. The kontos would be wielded in two hands, braced against the horse and rider for extra effect’ The fact that the Sarmatians did not use stirrups means that their skill and horsemanship must have been exceptional to enable them to remain seated after impact. The kontos also bears a resemblance to the Japanese yari spear, which was used as a slicing and stabbing as well as thrusting weapon (there is a record of a Gothic kontos cutting an opponent’s head off), so their straightforward charge may not have been the only fighting style available to the Sarmatians- this said it is no wonder why they became the model for the Roman Cataphract!

Xen
Aug 08, 2003, 10:10 PM
perhaps later a more indepth look on some of the others will follow... though dont get your hope up.....

Knight-Dragon
Aug 14, 2003, 08:53 AM
Is this supposed to be for an article?

Can you provide a more descriptive title?

jack merchant
Aug 14, 2003, 11:04 AM
Fascinating stuff, Xen ! :thumbsup:

wildWolverine
Aug 14, 2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Xen
Of all armies in the history of our little blue ball, none can claim to be as unusual as that of the the Bosporan kingdom of the Crimea.
Involving a cosmoplitan mix of Hellenised Scythians and Sarmatians, Greeks colonists, Sindi and Maiotian tribesmen, with occasional Thracian, Alan and even Roman troops and thrown in for good measure a nice line in field artillery!


Great article Xen!

As for "unusual armies," I'd consider the 1863 version of the Army of the Potomac to be pretty high up on the list.

Check out the description at the beginning of The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara (I know the book is fiction, but his description of the army in the prologue is historically accurate).

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 01:50 PM
XIII, I was thinking about PMing you a new title a while ago, but since no one seemed interested anyway...

I would be very thnkful if you could change it to either;

The Barbarian Horde! part 1 enter the Dacian host!

or if that is alittle to long to show up in full, then-

The Barbarian Horde! part 1 enter the Dacians

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 01:55 PM
and thanks for the compliments guys- consider the Barbarian horde series a make up for my non-patience at wanting to look at Alexanders' battles in depth, and there have been more then enough descriptions of the Macedonian army on the forums already to merit another one popping up....

Knight-Dragon
Aug 14, 2003, 07:10 PM
I'll just rename it to 'The Dacians'. There're worse barbarians out there...

Remember to stick your Part 2 into post no 2 in this thread (edit it); let's keep all the Dacians in one continuos thread. ;)

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 07:32 PM
the next article is going to be about the germans or celts... thats why it was part 1, I'm thinking of 3 seperate threads on 3 seperate armies, as for "The Barbarian Horde" well its okay that you left it out, though ever since seeing gladiator i associate all 'barbarians" with a man with an english accent yelling "the barabarian horde!" its part of the fun of being smelly, dirty, and uncivilised in general....

samildanach
Aug 14, 2003, 07:46 PM
Xen your original title "most unusual army ever". I've read through the article and fail to see how this army was particularly unusual based on your account perhaps you could clarify?

Barbarian Horde? .....for the new title... the Dacians were anything but barbarians, or do you mean from the Roman perspective. Remember we do have some romanian posters on this board so I would choose my words carefully ;)
Anyway these are just minor quibbles, I enjoyed your description of the falx it sounds like a weapon that no horror movie villian should leave home without.:)

Knight-Dragon
Aug 14, 2003, 07:52 PM
Xen, if you can, you shld add some pix or maps the next thing. It'll make your article look even more impressive and professional-looking. ;)

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 07:58 PM
I dont know how to get more then one pic in a post, or how to get them in the middle of a post, I'll be sure to include some if some kind sould would tell me how...

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 08:00 PM
also, everyone should expect my posts from a very Roman perspective, articles included, as I am a Roman by descent :D

Xen
Aug 14, 2003, 08:02 PM
and like I said, the unusual army part referred mostlly to the paragraph at the top- I plan to do an overveiw of all those armies eventually, so people can see just how weird that army was...I mean, one of thoise armies could vbery easilly have ALL of those components at the same time...

Knight-Dragon
Aug 14, 2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Xen
I dont know how to get more then one pic in a post, or how to get them in the middle of a post, I'll be sure to include some if some kind sould would tell me how... First, you upload your pix or map onto the CFC Uploads folder. Link is the rightmost in the links chain at the bottom of every forumpage called 'Upload File'.

Then image-tag it in your post.

E.g. you uploaded wex.jpg

In your post, it'll look like (w/o the *, only there to show) : -

[*img]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wex.jpg [*/img]

Xen
Aug 15, 2003, 02:59 AM
Thanks, we'll see with what ever assorted barbies are in my next article if i undestand this right... :D

Mîtiu Ioan
Aug 15, 2003, 12:44 PM
Well Xen ... may I knew the source of this informations ???

I must admit that some parts sound very tricky for me !!!

Regards

Xen
Aug 15, 2003, 01:49 PM
dont know- I didnt write it, a friend did, though I imagine that the main stay is histories, and modern tristeises on them, many on all types of ancient nations are available at amazon.com, I suggest getting them for in depth looks at what exactley these guys looked like all dressed up, as they are very pictoral, while i can only give a description really of the troops (though that may change)

Mîtiu Ioan
Aug 15, 2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Xen
The Dacians inhabited an area roughly corresponding to ancient Thrace (modern Yugoslavia)


Not correct ...
http://www.wikipedia.org/upload/6/65/Dacia_82_BC.png


...the most famous of whom was Decebalus...


Burebista was in fact the greatest "king" of dacians ...


The Dacian army: This was composed of warrior-farmers. The commonest warrior by far would be a man in his everyday clothing armed with a number of javelins and a short sword or curved knife, his only defence a solid oval shield (often highly decorated) with an iron boss. Such men could quite easily make up over 75% of an army. The remainder would be men armed with bows who acted as scouts and skirmishers, plus a small number of men rich enough to ride around the battlefield but still dressed and equipped like the rest of the army.


The Dacian's army was divided in two parts :
- the common people - "comati" - like you described;
- the noblemans - "tarabostes" - who was a heavily armed mounted warriors acting like "shock" units.

Sorry for my comments ... but I want to make this remarks.

Regards

Xen
Aug 15, 2003, 02:43 PM
"Not correct ... " in reponse to articles location af dacian territory

the thracians are an offshoot of the dacians, both culturally, and militarilly- they did not have access to the mighty host of cavalry provided by the Sarmatians however- thats why it included Thracia as not only part, but the main center (as it was the most active of all dacian areas prior to Rome)

"Burebista was in fact the greatest "king" of dacians"

but Decebalus is more famous...

Mîtiu Ioan
Aug 15, 2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Xen
but Decebalus is more famous...

Correct.

Xen
Aug 15, 2003, 04:16 PM
making him the better leader- more people know of him

Mikai
Sep 27, 2003, 05:21 AM
Hello, Xen!

I don't know you and this is my first time seeing your post and to tell you the truth it quite bothers me. You said you'll treat your articles from the Roman point of view. Well the Dacians were not Barbarians, not in the eyes of anyone at that time and especially in the eyes of Rome.

Let me introduce to all of you some correct facts, from the realistc and historical point of view:



Dacia, in ancient geography, the land of the Daci or Getae, a large district of Central Europe, bounded on the north by the Carpathians, on the south by the Danube, on the west by the Pathissus (Tisza river, in Hungary), on the east by the Tyras (Dniester, border between Moldavia and Ukraine), thus corresponding in the main to the modern Romania; towards the west it may originally have extended as far as the Danube where it runs from north to south at Waitzen (Vacz), while on the other hand Ptolemy puts its eastern boundary as far back as the Hierasus (Siret river, in Romania). The inhabitants of this district were of Thracian stock. By the Greeks the Dacians were usually called Getae, by the Romans, Daci.

Culture

The Dacians had attained a considerable degree of civilization when they first became known to the Romans. They believed in the immortality of the soul, and regarded death as merely a change of country. Their chief priest held a prominent position as the representative of the supreme deity, Zamolxis, upon earth; he was the king's chief adviser. Besides Zamolxis the Dacians believed in other deities, as Gebeleizis and Bendis. They were divided into two classes - an aristocracy (tarabostes) and a proletariate (comati). The first alone had the right to cover their heads and wore a felt hat (hence tarabostesei = pileati); they formed a privileged class, and it is supposed they were the predecessors of the Romanian boyars. The second class, who comprised the rank and file of the army, the peasants and artisans, wore their hair long (capillati). They dwelt in wooden huts surrounded by palisades, but in later times, aided by Roman architects, built walled strongholds and conical stone towers. Their chief occupations were agriculture and cattle breeding; horses were mainly used as draught animals. They also worked the gold and silver mines of Transylvania, and carried on a considerable outside trade, as is shown by the number of foreign coins found in the country.


Political entities

A kingdom of Dacia was in existence at least as early as the beginning of the 2nd century BC under a king Oroles. Conflicts with the Bastarnae and the Romans (112 BC-109 BC, 74 BC), against whom they had assisted the Scordisci and Dardani, had greatly weakened the resources of the Dacians. Under Burebista (Boerebista), a contemporary of Caesar, who thoroughly reorganized the army and raised the moral standard of the people, the limits of the kingdom were extended to its maximum expansion; the Bastarnae and Boii were conquered, and even Greek towns (Olbia, Apollonia) on the Pontus Euxinus fell into his hands. Indeed the Dacians appeared so formidable that Caesar contemplated an expedition against them, which was prevented by his death. About the same time Burebista was murdered, and the kingdom was divided into, four (or five) parts under separate rulers. One of these was Cotiso, whose daughter Augustus is said to have desired to marry and to whom he betrothed his own five-year-old daughter Julia. He is well known from the line in Horace (Occidit Daci Cotisonis agmen, Odes, III. 8. 18), which, as the ode was written on the March 1 29, probably refers to the campaign of Marcus Crassus (30-28), not to that of Cornelius Lentulus, who was not consul till 18. The Dacians are often mentioned under Augustus, according to whom, they were compelled to recognize the Roman supremacy. But they were by no means subdued, and in later times seized every opportunity of crossing the frozen Danube and ravaging the province of Moesia.


Roman Conquest

From A.D. 85 to 89 the Dacians were engaged in two wars with the Romans, under Duras or Diurpaneus, and the great Decebalus. After two severe reverses, the Romans, under Tettius Iullianus, gained a signal advantage, but were obliged to make peace owing to the defeat of Domitian by the Marcomanni. Decebalus restored the arms he had taken and some of the prisoners. But the Dacians were really left independent, as is shown by the fact that Domitian agreed to purchase immunity by the payment of an annual tribute.

To put an end to this disgraceful arrangement, Trajan resolved to crush the Dacians once and for all. The result of his first campaign (101-102) was the siege of the Dacian capital Sarmizegetusa, and the occupation of a part of the country; of the second (105-106), the suicide of Decebalus, the conquest of the whole kingdom and its conversion into a Roman province. The history of the war is given in Dio Cassius, but the best commentary upon it is the famous Column of Trajan in Rome.


Roman rule

The province was limited to Transylvania and Oltenia. It was under a governor of praetorian rank, and Legio XIII Gemina with numerous auxiliaries had their fixed quarters in the province. To make up for the ravages caused by the recent wars colonists were imported to cultivate the land and work the mines, and the old inhabitants gradually returned. Forts were built as a protection against the incursions of the surrounding barbarians, and three great military roads were constructed to unite the chief towns, while a fourth, named after Trajan, traversed the Carpathians and entered Transylvania by the Roteturm pass. The chief towns of the province were Colonia Ulpia Traiana Sarmizegetusa (today Sarmizegetusa, Hunedoara county, Romania), Apulum (today Alba-Iulia, Alba county), Napoca (today Cluj-Napoca, Cluj county) and Potaissa (today Turda, Cluj county). With the religion the Dacians also adopted the language of the conquerors, modern Romanian language being a Romance language.

In 129, under Hadrian, Dacia was divided into Dacia Superior and Dacia Inferior, the former comprising Transylvania, the latter Little Walachia or Oltenia. Marcus Aurelius redivided it into three (tres Daciae): Porolissensis, from the chief town Porolissum (near Moigrad, Salaj county), Apulensis from Apulum and Malvensis from Malva (site unknown). The tres Daciae formed a commune in so far that they had a common capital, Ulpia Traiana Sarmizegetusa, and a common diet, which discussed provincial affairs, formulated complaints and adjusted the incidence of taxation; but in other respects they were practically independent provinces, each under an ordinary procurator, subordinate to a governor of consular rank.


Roman withdrawal
The Roman hold on the country was, however, still precarious. Indeed it is said that Hadrian, conscious of the difficulty of retaining it, had contemplated its abandonment and was only deterred by consideration for the safety of the numerous Roman settlers. Under Gallienus (256), the Goths crossed the Carpathians and drove the Romans from Dacia, with the exception of a few fortified places between the Timis river and the Danube. No details of the event are recorded, and the chief argument in support of the statement in Rufius Festus that "under the Emperor Gallienus Dacia was lost" is the sudden cessation of Roman inscriptions and coins in the country after 256. Aurelian (270-275) withdrew the troops altogether and settled the Roman colonists on the south of the Danube, in Moesia, where he created the province Dacia Aureliani. This was subsequently divided into Dacia Ripensis on the Danube, with capital Ratiaria (Arcar in Bosnia-Herzegovina), and Dacia Mediterranea, with capital Sardica (Sofia, the capital of Bulgaria), the latter again being subdivided into Dardania and Dacia Mediterranea.

Also please check Encyclopaedia Britannica as I believe it is a more common resource to all our readers:

DACIA, in antiquity, the area of the Carpathian Mountains and Transylvania, in present north-central and western Romania. The Dacian people had earlier occupied lands south of the Danube and north of the mountains, and the Roman province eventually included wider territories both to the north and east. The Dacians were agricultural and also worked their rich mines of silver, iron, and gold. They first appeared in the Athenian slave market in the 4th century BC; subsequently they traded with the Greeks (importing especially wine) and used Greek coins. They spoke a Thracian dialect but were influenced culturally by the neighbouring Scythians and by the Celtic invaders of the 4th century BC. The Dacians engaged Roman troops in 112, 109, and 75 BC. In about 60-50 BC King Burebista unified and extended the kingdom, which, however, split into four parts after his death.
During the reign of the Roman emperor Augustus (ruled 27 BC-ad 14) and again in AD 69 the Dacians raided the Roman province of Moesia but were beaten back. The Dacian Wars (ad 85-89) under the emperor Domitian resulted in their recognition of Roman overlordship. The Romans under Trajan reopened hostilities in AD 101 and by 106 subdued the whole country. A large part of the population was either exterminated or driven northward. The Romans seized an enormous amount of wealth (the Dacian Wars were commemorated on Trajan's Column in Rome) and immediately exploited the Dacian mines. Roman influence was broadened by the construction of important roads, and Sarmizegethusa and Tsierna (Orsova) were made colonies. The new province was divided under Hadrian: Dacia Superior corresponded roughly to Transylvania and Dacia Inferior to the region of Wallachia.
In AD 159 Antoninus Pius redivided the region into three provinces, the Tres Daciae (Dacia Porolissensis, Dacia Apulensis, and Dacia Malvensis), all subordinate to one governor of consular rank. Marcus Aurelius made the provinces a single military region in about AD 168. The limits of Roman territory were probably never clearly defined, but the Romans benefitted both militarily and materially from the occupation.

More to come....

Xen
Sep 27, 2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Mikai
Hello, Xen!

I don't know you and this is my first time seeing your post and to tell you the truth it quite bothers me. You said you'll treat your articles from the Roman point of view. Well the Dacians were not Barbarians, not in the eyes of anyone at that time and especially in the eyes of Rome.
More to come....

they were no more advanced then the Celts were politically, and cultureally-but I'll let you in on a secret- If I write an article on them, then they are by no means "savages" living out in the wilderness- they are barbarians though, particurally when given the classical definiton that it is anyone whom dosent speak Latin, or Greek (or a languaged based on them in modern times)

though when comparing them to Rome, there is no compition, as nice as the culture was, Rome came in, conqoured, and left such an impression that the area is still named after Rome today in the nationn of Romania-



Originally posted by Mikai

Let me introduce to all of you some correct facts, from the realistc and historical point of view:


as for my facts- read my articles, i dont address culture in most cases, and this was no differnt, its a guide to the civs milatary first and foremost, as war is amoujng the more interesting of histories, and I wish to adds to the sites extensive knowledge on the subject- if you want to add to it then fine, post a new article on the Dacians culture and such, but dont slander my article by inferring them false when you know that they are true, but are written in a manner you dont happen to apporove of.

Mikai
Sep 28, 2003, 06:28 AM
they were no more advanced then the Celts were politically, and cultureally-but I'll let you in on a secret- If I write an article on them, then they are by no means "savages" living out in the wilderness- they are barbarians though, particurally when given the classical definiton that it is anyone whom dosent speak Latin, or Greek (or a languaged based on them in modern times)

I did not intended to offend you in any way, just to make it clear to you. Your article about the Dacians, besides the mistake of placing them in today's Yugoslavia, contains true information and there is no word in my previous post referring to it as beeing false.

The only thing I wanted to point you out was that the Dacians were not simply put Barbarians. But I see now that my intention was a mistake, as (if I understand correctly) you treat your articles from a Roman Empire fan point of view and mostly oriented to military aspects...

Well, this forum is called "World History" and as I've studied Dacian and Romanian history, I'll fallow your advice and post some articles about them...

...anyone whom dosent speak Latin, or Greek (or a languaged based on them in modern times...

FYI, Romanian language is a Latin based language...Actually it was called at some point in the History, not long after the Aurelian Withdrawall in 271 AD, as the Vulgar Latin language ;)

Xen
Sep 28, 2003, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Mikai
FYI, Romanian language is a Latin based language...Actually it was called at some point in the History, not long after the Aurelian Withdrawall in 271 AD, as the Vulgar Latin language ;)

if I remember correctley, ancient Dacian is NOT a latin or Greek baced language ;) :D- madern Romania, and ancient Dacic are hardley the same- and this is just one of them- the same applies to all nation, the Roman empire is not Italy, nor even ancient China modern China

Mikai
Sep 28, 2003, 07:28 AM
if I remember correctley, ancient Dacian is NOT a latin or Greek baced language - madern Romania, and ancient Dacic are hardley the same- and this is just one of them- the same applies to all nation, the Roman empire is not Italy, nor even ancient China modern China

Ancient Dacian is not a Latin based language - TRUE although the Dacians and Greek colonists coexisted on Pontus Euxinus (Black Sea) shores since 1500 BC in the towns of Histria, Tomis, Callatis and many more...

Modern Romanian and ancient Dacian are hardly the same - TRUE mostly when we think at the latin and slavic influences upon the initial language; but I'll let you on a little secret: we still use in our language up to 100 purely dacian unalterated words from wich most of them are the names of animals, rivers, mountains, food items and so on...

One must be a fool to believe that today's Romania is the same nation with th ancient Dacian people. Every history book and every child knows that the Romanians are the descendants, of both Dacians and Romans mixed up. Our National Antem mention in its lirics the Emperor Trajan as one of our great ancestors.

And to conclude: read carefully, please. I said that Romanian language is latin based, not ancient Dacian...But you've said that according to the definition(?) barbarians are (among other things) the ones that don't speak Latin or Greek or a language based on those two in modern times. Since the Romanian language is Latin based, and the Romanians are the closest thing to Dacians in modern times, we can conclude that (according to your definition) the Dacians were not Barbarians...:D

This is not a valid argument, of cource - I didn't even started to post the real ones - I just wanted to use your definition to prove the contrary about the Dacians...

So to level up, It is TRUE that the Roman Empire refered to all the other nations in the rest of the ancient Europe(besides the Greeks) in that time with the term of Barbarians (even used for the Parthian Empire people aswell wich was more powerfull than Dacia at that time...), but Barbarian does not equal "savages living in the wilderness"...I think this is your mistake. You are to awed by the Roman Empire's glory enough to underestimate the true cultural and military value of the other nations and kingdoms of that time...

Xen
Oct 01, 2003, 03:36 AM
I'm not just awed by Rome, I am Rome :) (well, I've got a firm Romano-Etruscan-Jewish bloodline from my dads side that can be traced back to the early days of the republic itself)-and I fully agree barbarian dose not equal savages in the woods- if it did, i would not post anything about them.

as for the languages- Dacians=barbarians, they didnt speake modern romanian then, they spoke dacian, dacian, not being Latin, or Greek, is barbarian talk, if anything, concidering the geneology of the nation of romania, that makes them barbarians as the first language of the area was not a latin, or greek based language ;)

as for true culteral and milatary values? i know a good amount of stuff on everybody in the west during the time frame, and it is no understaement to say that Romes was 10 fold superior to anything the other guys had- a genearl could often balence things out, but during the time of trajan, the Roman army achieved a status so supreme that no other force in history can match it