Look below to find 50's tech tree?

I was toying with the idea of doing some sort of 1943 - 1989 scenario and it got me thinking what civs would be included. What do you think of the following civs. I wasn't alive during the height of the cold-war so perhaps I've missed some important countries, but I'm fairly sure I've caputred the most important ones.

Edit: damn, I just realized people will think I meant an actual game map. Could one of the mods change the title a bit or something? :blush: Sorry people.

You have inspired me to start work on my own Cold War Scenario. I have mentioned it in the past and this is going too be cool!

YAY! I did something.

If you need help with civilopedias and info just tell me.

Originally posted by aaminion00
[B]I was toying with the idea of doing some sort of 1943 - 1989 scenario and it got me thinking what civs would be included. What do you think of the following civs. I wasn't alive during the height of the cold-war so perhaps I've missed some important countries, but I'm fairly sure I've caputred the most important ones.


Um ... Japan, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Belgium & the Congo; Portugal & Angola + Mozambique, Turkey ...

Unfortunatly we only have 31 civs. Which would you suggest taking out?

Also why Japan? Besides their amazing succes in scientific progress, what have they accomplished milllitarily? 3 Scandanavian countries??? Why?? I don't recall the region being a battleground between east and west. Turkey was one of the few other ones I considered. Why Belgium and Portugal? What makes them so much more deserving than the other european countries already there? I already have the Congo in there. Mozambique and Angola. Maybe...

After conquests is out I'd probably add

Turkey, Sweden, Angola, and maybe Mozambique.

You DID say you were starting in 1943 .... ? Japan, Norway and Finland were all at war (or, in Norway's case, occupied) until 1945.

As for what to cut and/or leave in --

1. If the focus of your efforts is going to be major war -- WW2 & a hypothetical WW3, then you can make do with one Civ being NATO absent the US

2. If your emphasis is wars of national liberation etc. during this time, then the Belgian and Portuguese colonies, as well as the SE Asian countries (BTW you probably mean "Cambodia" not "Khmer Rouge" for most of this period) and Kenya (the Mau-mau et. al.)

3. If your intent are modern (post-WW2 flashpoints) then definitely wherever US-USSR client states clashed; definitely Pakistan-India; etc.

... Now, to wax pedantic (what a surprise from Yours Truly! :D ) (1) a "model" is a set of assumptions about reality, be it a toy car or a sophisticated econometric prediction engine -- or a Civ scenario; and (2) the engineer's credo: "form follows function".

So which 31 Civs you choose depends entirely upon what you desire the focus of the mod to be -- what you wish to model: World War; Cold War flashpoints; or post-Cold-War flashpoints.

I'm certain a balance can be struck between all three, but then obvious tradeoffs (# of Civs etc.) still come into play, and what's most important again defines what gets included.

Best,

Oz

I would suggest Israel being included for sure. I fail to see the significance of Sweden, Finland, and Norway. Turkey can be added to that list.

If you're not focusing on the 1990 to present period at all, I would take out Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and add Israel and Japan. I would also take out Columbia and put in South Korea. Somalia I would take out and replace with Taiwan. Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq didn't really figure prominently until 1990-present (unless you count the Iraq-Iran war for including Iraq).

I'd say the main goal is to recreate as much of the aspects present in the cold war (mostly a constant threat of global war) while using a lot of more modern units allowing for a modern gameplay that people don't often experience in civ3 because they usually win the game by then.

Of course, I'm not the one creating the scenario/mod (as of yet), just a guy with some ideas.

Now that I've had some time to think, I realize I took out some noteworthy civs.

First of all sorry about 1943. I mean the end of World War II and apparently I messed up somehow.

Israel, Turkey, Palestine, South Korea, Japan, Angola, Mozambique would be good choices.

A couple of other ideas.

What if instead of "cattle" resources you had processing plants, or instead of rubber you had "manufacturing plants" and so forth? A lot of resources could be changed to appear a bit more modern.

What if instead of a settler, you used a "Propaganda" type unit that goes around in a business suit and suitcase establishing new cities by waving some papers?

Another thing is, would this just have as many of the cities in the world in it already, creating for a fairly realistic reenactment, or would this be a fun yet fictitious scenario where everyone starts with 1 settler and expands like crazy.

I still feel Japan should be included, as the major economic power in Asia, and in the later part of the period, as the #2 economic power in the world.

Originally posted by Procifica
I still feel Japan should be included, as the major economic power in Asia, and in the later part of the period, as the #2 economic power in the world.

Plus the JDF had the second or third largest military budget in the world for decades -- all defensive, of course ...

If a 3rd WW had broken out -- especially (1) given their utter dependence upon Middle Eastern oil and (2) given Soviet claims to northern Japanese islands -- it's extremely unlikely they would have stayed neutral, although a ramping up period would have been necessary for much force projection beyond their very local sphere.

-Oz

Originally posted by aaminion00
Why Belgium and Portugal?

Because both had colonies that got independant by the 60ies-70ies... Belgium had Congo (Zaire)...

... and Portugal had Guinea-Bissau, Portuguese Congo (The Cabinda Enclave), Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, São Tomé and Principe, Goa, Macao and East Timor, not to mention the USAF base on the Azores and the US-sponsored Salazar regime... :)

Looking forward for your scenario, Aaminion00!

EDIT: Just a correction... It's Colombia, not Columbia...

Colombia eh? Thanks.

I have Poser5 and it'd be pretty tight if I could make one-era leaderheads for all the civs, like Sween32's Ho Chi Min. Too bad I have no idea what I'm doing in that program. I sent a PM to Sween, maybe when he has the time he can post some sort of tutorial..

What do you think about this for a 50's tech tree?

There should be an infantry tactics tech in there as well.

My biggest fault is that I don't understand cold war militarry all that well. Anybody who does, care to make a unit line with tanks, airplanes, ships, and infantry?

I will later today or tomorrow, since I know a bit about the Cold War militaries.

Also, what exactly are you planning on having the Entertainment line of technologies do?

Mostly allows the civ to build various buildings that boost culture, happiness, etc. etc. Stuff like stadiums, theatres, olympics (small wonder), woodstock (wonder), so on and so on.

Basically it's there to represent how much of a role entertainment played in those decades and offer a unique little twist to the mod. Popular music would allow concert-halls, early rock would allow some sort of popular radio wonder, classic rock would allow woodstock...

I'm still not sure how punk rock would contribute. Maybe it's possible to have a building that increases war wearines and happiness simutaneously :crazyeye:

Some units might come from it as well. The hippie would come from classic rock. It would require the marijuana luxury resource and 1 population cost but would allow a reeeaallly fast scout.

Maybe someone can make a punk rocker unit with really low defense but high offense that breaks **** with a baseball bat.

Hmm... no more comments for the 50's tech tree

Originally posted by aaminion00
Hmm... no more comments for the 50's tech tree I would change Early Rock Music to just Rock Music. Not a big deal, buthey you asked for commentshttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wink.gif

Re: Scandinavia:

For a Cold War/WWIII scenario, I'd suggest lumbing Norway and Denmark with other small NATO countries, or possibly turn all European NATO (except perhaps Turkey) into a single civ. Sweden and Finland could be thrown in with Switzerland as a "Neutral Europe" civ.

Had the Cold War turn hot, Scandinavia would almost certainly have become a battleground, and while probably a sideshow to the great slug-out in Central Europe, it would feel wrong to have it left empty in a such scenario. It may also prove interesting from a gameplay POV, since you could with good conscience make overland communications atrocious. (It's not that Scandinavian roads are bad - they're just to few to faciliate large-scale warfare, not to mention that there's forest all over the place making off-road movement hard for vehicles.)

Oh, and the only thing much Somalia did before deciding on that li'l experiment in anarchy was fighting with Ethiopia, so I'd suggest that both are in or both are out.

Well you've convinced me to take Somalia out.

I'm not sure what civ to replace them with.

Should this scenario be one with cities already in them? I thought it would be pretty cool if you just started with a settler (propagandaman, guy in business suit) and build up your cold war powerhouse from scratch. I thought this would be good because that way I wouldn't have to post all these random cities into civs that should never have them.

A Cold War scenario without preplaced cities would be ... weird.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but if you want my suggestion, go with preplaced cities and a revealed map.

You could lump all cities that belong to no playable civ to a "passive" civ unable to build anything (uncheck "manage production" in Civilizations menu). If you don't want everybody and their dog's grandma picking at this civ, you could give them hopelessly strong but immobile defenders in their cities.

I think it would be pretty tight if I made 2 versions

1 where you just got a settler and built an empire from ground up

1 with preplaced cities and such, a civ for those cities, and inability to build settlers.

Sounds like a good idea.

Just even looking at all of these makes me laugh about Civ2.

I remember playing the World War 1979 scenario and only having 8 civs to work with. All of the Middl East was lumped into one civ under Khomeini. All of Europe was under one civilization. Canada and USA were under America. Japan, Israel, Taiwan, South Africa were all lumped into one civilization. And there was no South America or Australia IIRC! :lol:

My own global scenarios faced similar restrictions.. consider yourselves lucky with 31.. hehe.

I'm sure if they pulled it off with eight, pulling it off with 31 will be relatively easy.

Here are the 50's once again

And the 60's...

The 70's...

And the 80's...

Now if any of you could tell me if I've missed some techs, connections, or made some stupid connections or techs, that would be great.

I also want to know what units you think should be included with the millitary techs already there, and what other units should definetly be worked in.

If you have any suggestions for the tech-tree or the mod, just tell me, please.