Started serveral new games last week with serveral new goals and new techniques in mind, but I have abandoned most of them around 10 AD (mostly because the lack of grasslands and luxuries). However, I think I will go all the way with this one. Here is the save game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_e230ad.SAV) after one quick session.

Map Settings: Huge - Wet - Warm - 5 Billion Year - Sedentary Barbarians with 8 AIs.

So far, I had been at war with French because I refused to give in to their demands. After losing about a half dozen horsemans to their spears, I decided to sue for peace and accepted their gift of two remote towns. Currently, French, Spain, Arabs, and Persia have don't have any horse. I have two source of horses and Chivary but no iron.:cry: Therefore, I had no choice but to make peace with French in hope to use their trade route for some iron. The status of my empire 10 turns after French war:

Miltary Report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ad0230-0.jpg)
Power Graph (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ad0230-2.jpg)
Domestic Report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ad0230-3.jpg)
Layout of my core cities (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ad0230-1.jpg). My FP (built from scratch) is located at Moonsinger Place and the red dot indicate the location for future cities. So far, no sight of great leader.

Btw, I also finished the Great Pyramid in my capital in 1650 BC (building it up stone by stone from scratch). Will move my capital to North of Paris with the first great leader sometimes in the near future.

My quasicurrent HOF attempt is going to be on the Emperor level as well. I can't really say anything right now other than my settings because all I've done is reject dozens of maps. The maps I'm trying are huge, wet, warm, pangaea, five billion, no barbs, 16ai.

I'm giving the Chinese a go...

China is good choice. Since your map will be too crowded with 16 civs, you are going to need your military power a lot sooner. My plan is simple - 9 civs with a lot of room to expand. By the time I run out of room to expand, the spahis will come in handy just about the right time.:)

When the HOF wasn't being updated often, I used the Ottomans quite a bit and fully understand your choice of 9 civs. :goodjob:

Unfortunatly, I never finished any of those games. The challenge I kept running into was the building phase prior to the Sipahi. I found it to get boring map after map, and by the time I had a map and game I was satisfied with, I wound up without saltpeter in my territory. So I decided to just start a new game with the Chinese for a change of pace.

I have abandoned most of them around 10 AD (mostly because the lack of grasslands and luxuries). good to know you are commited to the game :hmm:

:lol:

since I forgot to congrats on the mod-ship she who has the cute-girl avatar :)

Immortal: Thanks!:) Sorry, I haven't played this game much lately, but I'm planning for another marathon this weekend. Hopefully, I will get to 1000 AD (at least) by Monday.

Game Update as of 9/1/2003

I have been continued to research with 1 scientist and buying all my techs without any problem. I also made a lot of money on selling ROP to everyone (at least 200 gold each). Here is an example of such trade: Huge gold deal for RoP (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad620-1.jpg)

Shortly after my RoP with Persia expired, they declared war on Germany then on my Ottomans a few turn after that when I asked them to leave my territory. While most of their Imortals and Cavalry were busy fighting the Germans, I captured most of their core cities. Other than Persia, the rest of the world are polite toward me at this point.:) Around 900, I noticed the leader head changed which mean the AIs were entered the industrial age. I immediately bought all the Middle Age techs and entered the industrial age as well. I got Medicine as a free tech which I exchanged for Steam Power from Babylon then sold it to the rest of the world for a total of around 400 gpt. A turn later, Babylon and Persia also discovered Nationalism (must be the free tech from Persia) as well but Babylon was asking for 9000 gold - way too much for me. I had the money but decided not to buy it. After buying my medication, most of the AIs were bankrupted anyway and I didn't really want to pick up the whole bill for Nationalism. Unless I can re-sell it to some one else, I wont buy it. Here is my latest save game (960AD to be exact) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_e960ad.SAV).

Also Current Income report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad960-1.jpg), Histograph report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad960-2.jpg), and the Minimap (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad960-3.jpg)

I just found out that my ring calculation is way off.:mad: First, the distance has to be rounded to the nearest integer; so, there is no ring 4.5 any more. Second, my first ring around my FP has a distand of 4 while my first ring around my palace has a distance of 3 which is totally messed up my rings at the FP.

I don't know if I should continue this game.:( I wish the ring has not come to me. I wish that I have never heard of the ring! Ignorant is a bliss I suppose.

My hat's off to you for attempting ring placement. Despite all the tested and proven methods of city placement, I still drop them only single tiles apart...

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I wish the ring has not come to me. I wish that I have never heard of the ring! Ignorant is a bliss I suppose.

Seven days Moonsinger ;)

ps: I'm with you on that. RCP is driving me nuts too.

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
I'm with you on that. RCP is driving me nuts too.

I haven't even tried it yet... It looks way too complicated for me.
And Moonsinger, don't drop this game because the RCP thingy doesn't work this time. You're a good enough player to get a great score without RCP....

Well, Tacit_Exit is right...I will pick it up again in 7 days.;) Even though my primary cores (rings around my FP) is all wrong but I still believe I ended up with better yield because of RCP.

According to the Income from my last report. My actual Income from all cities = 5334 Total Income - 376 from other civ - 36 from taxman = 4922 gold. Note: the reason I subtract those number because income from other civs and from taxmans can't never be corrupted.

(4922 gold - 2008 gold lost to corruption)/ 4922 = 59% of all my income are uncorrupted.

Therefore, my overall production lost to corruption is about 41% which isn't too bad. When I get home tonight, I will compare it to my old game (the one without using RCP) and will post the result later.

Here is the income report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_no_rcp.jpg) of my other 36K game (emperor level) that I did long before the discovery of RCP. With normal city placement (I placed cities where I pleased), the result is as follows:

Actual Income from all cities = 13846 gold - 955 from taxmans - 50 from interest = 12841 gold.

(12841 gold - 5645 gold lost to corruption)/ 5645 = 56% uncorrupted.

Without using RCP, my overall income lost to corruption is about 44% which is about 5% more than the RCP tactic.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Here is the income report (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_no_rcp.jpg) of my other 36K game (emperor level) that I did long before the discovery of RCP. With normal city placement (I placed cities where I pleased), the result is as follows:

Actual Income from all cities = 13846 gold - 955 from taxmans - 50 from interest = 12841 gold.

(12841 gold - 5645 gold lost to corruption)/ 5645 = 56% uncorrupted.

Without using RCP, my overall income lost to corruption is about 44% which is about 5% more than the RCP tactic.

Be sure you are comparing apples to apples here. When I was testing the RCP concept I kept making mistakes when figuring the productivity of cities.

I found that the only accurate way to do it was set the entertainment slider to 100% so the tax wasn't affected by the presence of marketplaces and banks. You also need to have all cities producing something other than wealth so your shield production isn't affecting gold production. Are both maps having the same amount of WLTK? Finally , are both maps using the same city improvements such as courthouses and police stations?

Svar,

Currently, I don't have the exact apples to apples for comparison, but will do it again at 2049 AD of this game. Since the income report from that 36K game is from 2049 AD, I'm currently comparing apples to baby-apples. Basically, I'm guessing...if the apples are fully mature (2049 AD), I would get about 44% lost to corruption. If the apples are just flowering (right around 960 AD), I would get about 41% lost to corruption. Therefore, I'm guessing is that once this baby is fully growth, it will be about the same as the other one. I'm looking forward to 2049 AD for the real apples to apples comparison.:)

moonsinger, sounds like a great game, you have going here:) i'm always amazed by the income you're able to generate...will have a closer look at the save. do you have any advice for getting that much money?

Originally posted by Mazarin
do you have any advice for getting that much money?

1. Try to accquire all 8 luxuries ASAP.
2. Build the market for all cities of size 6 or above. Build bank in all core cities.
3. Mininum research and trade, trade, trade like crazy. Even though the Ottoman is a scientific civ, I do not focus on research until after 20 turns into the industrial age.

Funny that you mention those three. I would have thought that tech brokering and selling ROPs would've been #4 and #5.

Game update:

1110 AD: discovered Electricity at the same turn as Babylon.:( It was a waste of time and gold because I couldn't sell it to anyone.

1150 AD: discovered Replaceable Part which I traded to Babylon for Espionage + 292 gpt (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad1150-1.jpg). Meanwhile, England was losing her war against Germany and need my help - an offer that I couldn't refuse.:lol: I also went back to research with 1 scientist. Electricity and Replaceable Part were the only two techs so far that I pushed for the max at 90% science (discovery in 4 turns each).

1230 AD: Babylon discovered Scientific Method. Since I already had a prebuild palace and a great leader standing by, I decided to buy Scientific Method for 3068 gold (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad1230-1.jpg) (which equal to about 1 turn of my national income). If I have tried to search for Scientific Method myself, it would have cost me at least 12000 gold. By letting the AIs to search it for me, I have saved at least 9000 gold which went directly toward the military account.:) Meanwhile, Germany was defeated. Shortly after the German war, Zululand signed MPP with Spain then sneak-attacked me. Of course, I had no choice but to retaliated. Both of them (in total) were owing me around 900 gpt at the time. Since they couldn't afford to pay they attacked me instead.:(

Anyway, it's currently 1240 AD and I'm within 10 tiles from the domination limit. Currently score is 6697 points (gaining 147 points per turn). Just completed Theory of Evolution and jumped 2 techs ahead of everyone.:)

Looks like it's going very well, moonsinger. :goodjob:

My latest save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_e1280ad.SAV) (at the beginning of turn 1280ad), the final show down before my Ottomans and the Babylonians may be in this turn. It's really up to Babylon now. Currently, they are wandering in my territory; if I ask them to leave, they probably will declare war. According to my spy, they had over 100 Infantries, 3 cavalries, and a dozen artilleries. I currently have about 100 Spahis, 30 Infantries, and 3 dozen artilleries standing by ready. So far, my Spahis had no problem against spear, pike, musket, and rifle, but I'm not so sure they are ready to take on Infantryman.:undecide: I think I better rush another 50 artilleries right away just in case.

Sipahi will win out over Infantry, but it takes at least a third more than over riflemen. Another 50 artillery is a great idea.

Yeah, I'd definately rush another 50 artillery if I were you, otherwise it could be very bloody (on your side I mean)...

Unlike the AIs, the humans players would defend only those cities along our borders and do not station troops in all of our cities. The AIs is a little bit stupid because they would defend every towns with about 2 or 3 units. With the recent patches, they would defend their capital with about 6 units. Since there are about 30 babylonian cities, that would tie up at least 60 infantrymans right there. That would leave them with the SOD of about 30 infantrymans and 30 bowmans for offensive. And since those units can't move very fast, I'm sure they are sitting duck awaiting to be slaughtered. Now, all I need is a marathon session of about 6 hours to play. Since each turn take about 1 hour to play in peacetime now, I think 6 hours will advance me another 4 turns.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Now, all I need is a marathon session of about 6 hours to play. Since each turn take about 1 hour to play in peacetime now, I think 6 hours will advance me another 4 turns.

:cringe: :eek: :confused: :cry:

OH MY GOD! What in the world takes that long? Do you do that much micromanagement?

Or is your computer's processor an abacus?:lol: :lol:

Originally posted by superslug
OH MY GOD! What in the world takes that long? Do you do that much micromanagement?

Or is your computer's processor an abacus?:lol: :lol:

My computer is fast enough; dual PIII 1GHz processors (2 processors of 1 GHz each) with 2 Gigs of RAM. However, currently I have the domination limit to calculate and about 300 workers to move in every turn and a lot of jungles to clear... Since my save game is available, if you think you can move faster than 1 hour per turn, please check it out.;)

No question the computer is fast enough.

Could I get through a turn of your game in a fraction of the time? Sure I could, a fraction of the time and an even lesser fraction of the score!:crazyeye:

I was just expressing some dismay is all. I'm not all questioning your skill. You're top dog on the Emperor list that I am as yet a wannabe for.

Well, all I guess I can really say is:
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

The year is 1390 AD. Except for the mooing sound here and there, all quiet from all fronts.:D The current score is 11156 points and gainning 145 points per turn. If I can keep up this rate for another 100 turns, I think 37K is very possible.

So how on earth do you avoid the Domination victory from this point on, Moonsinger?

Do you use one of the utilities?

Have you already scrapped all your cultural buildings, or will you run them till you're closer to 100k?

I can't speak for Moonsinger, but I personally use MapStat and have gotten to the point that I can't live without it. As far as cultural buildings go, I don't build that many, as I'm more concerned with Marketplaces, Aqueducts, Hospitals and Settlers.

Same here. The only cultural buildings I have are libraries and universities in my core (which will be sold when I reach ecology (mass transit) and the useful wonders from the game so far (like Pyramids, SunTzu's, Bachs, Leo's, ToE, Hoovers, Copernicus, Newtons, etc...
I never build temples, catherdrals and colosseums in my HoF games...

And :worship: to chiefpaco, the maker of mapstat!

Wow; no culture outside the cores!

So I guess the non-core cities are packed close enough that you don't need ANY cultural expansions, huh?

I'll have to check out this MapStat.

Here's the thread if you don't have time to go hunting:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18243

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
Wow; no culture outside the cores!

So I guess the non-core cities are packed close enough that you don't need ANY cultural expansions, huh?

I'll have to check out this MapStat.

Yeah, I use two tile spacing between my cities whenever possible, so I don't need culture expansions...

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
Wow; no culture outside the cores!

So I guess the non-core cities are packed close enough that you don't need ANY cultural expansions, huh?

I'll have to check out this MapStat.

Yes, like Superslug and Darkness just said, I'm using Mapstat to avoid the domination limit. I do not build culture building outside my cores. Since I'm playing the Ottomans, I can build cheap library along my beaches to get the correct culture expansions then disband them 3 turns later. Currently, I'm in the process of moving my desert towns onto the grassland...still a lot of work left to do. After that, I will focus on hospital construstion (haven't build any of them yet, but I did capture a couple hospitals from Babylon). Still about 6 techs away from the modern age.

Moonsinger, are you researching now or do spend your money on rushing stuff? I'm in a similar position with a frace game atm...I could research at 4 turns per tech with 50%, but there are many markets/ducts/hospitals that still need to be built :)

Originally posted by Mazarin
Moonsinger, are you researching now or do spend your money on rushing stuff? I'm in a similar position with a frace game atm...I could research at 4 turns per tech with 50%, but there are many markets/ducts/hospitals that still need to be built :)

After reducing the last AI to a single city, I focused on research at maximum speed (new tech every 4 turns). In the meantime, most of my cities were storing shields for rushing the hospitals later. My goal as always is not to complete any hospitals until I enter the modern age because I don't want to polluting the planet so soon. However, this may not be the case for PTW. It seems to me that global warmng has been reduced greatly in PTW. Massive pollution won't alter the terrain no more. There won't be any more nuke terraforming either.:( Anyway, further testing is needed to confirm this.

Finally, it was time to launch my spaceship.[dance] I have been longing for this day since the dawn of my civilization.;) Total playtime (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad2050-1.jpg) was around 144 hours with the final score of 38729 points (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad2050-2.jpg).


This is the screenshot (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad2050-3.jpg) of what is left with England. Those Privateers do come very handy to block off England from further expansion.:D Anyway, I'm really sleepy and going to bed now. Good night!:)

Congratulations!:crazyeye: :eek: :goodjob: :king: :band: :sheep: :thumbsup: :worship: :beer:

Congratulations Moonsinger!! :goodjob:

................It is such a pleasure having a TOP HOF player ALSO being the HOF Moderator. :goodjob: :goodjob:

Next, will you be taking on SirPleb at Deity level? :)

:confused:

Ummm, EMan, Moonsinger isn't the HoF mod, Aeson is...

Thanks everyone!:)

Originally posted by EMan
Next, will you be taking on SirPleb at Deity level? :)

Next, I'm going to try the Chieftain level.:) I think Chieftain is really where our milking techniques can really shine because we can start the milk-run right away at 4000 BC.:)

Moonsinger, I think your right about Chieftain level. :)

I've got a run that I'm hoping will be in the 10000 to 11000 with 1.27 PTW.

good job!:goodjob: :goodjob:
did you do anything different in this game to help get a better score over your old game?

Originally posted by Takeo
did you do anything different in this game to help get a better score over your old game?

I think the Spahi had helped my civ to advance much faster toward the domination limit.

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
Moonsinger, I think your right about Chieftain level. :)

I've got a run that I'm hoping will be in the 10000 to 11000 with 1.27 PTW.

On chieftain level? Wow! That's nearly 50% more than EMan's current no 1 chieftain score! :goodjob:

Great, even if I wind up by some miracle bumping Eman off with my current game, I won't be sitting on top of the Chieftain anthill very long!

Moonsinger, any chance we can get a peek at a .sav?

Originally posted by superslug
Moonsinger, any chance we can get a peek at a .sav?

The save file was close to 1 Meg each after around 1400 AD. The exactly was the reason why I stopped posting them here. If you still want them (I mean if you have fast enough bandwide), I will upload them tonight when I got home (still at work at the moment).

It'll eventually be available, I'll wait. Thanks though!

superslug,

I got your message after I finished uploading the file. Here is the save for 2049 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_Emperor_HoF_2049_AD.SAV

Enjoy!:) Don't forget to check out my naval blockage...I did have a lot of fun setting that up.:)

I'll take a peek when I get homefrom work in the morning!