View Full Version : industrial revolution in 600 A.D.(for Allan)


Le Petit Prince
Oct 09, 2001, 03:34 PM
ALLAN I FOUND IT!

Egyptians Knew Its Power Three Thousand Years Before the Time of Stephenson, and the Romans Had Faint Glimpses of Its Uses.



SOME three thousand years before George Stephenson demonstrated to the world that a locomotive is a more powerful servant than a horse, the Egyptians were using steam, according to one Greek writer, Hero of Alexandria. The great statue of Memnon at Thebes, when struck by the rays of the rising sun, produced a moaning noise or a sound like the sharp twanging of a harp-string, and this sound, Hero says, was made by steam generated in the pedestal and issuing from the mouth.

Whether Hero was right or not, it is certain that he himself, one hundred and thirty years before the birth of Christ, knew something of the power of steam. To him, however, it was a plaything, and the only use to which he put his knowledge was to build two toys, one of which balanced a ball on a stream of water and the other twirled a ball around.

In the later days of the Roman Empire men began to realize that this was not all the work that steam could do. In the reign of Justinian the architect Artemius ran some pipes from a row of water-vessels to the rafters of an adjoining house, a fire was kindled under the water, the steam ascended through the pipes, and the rafters were raised.

We are not told that Artemius tried to do anything more useful, and the collapse of the empire soon stopped all further investigations. In the chaos which followed no one knew or cared anything about science, and it is not until the sixteenth century that we hear of more experiments, from which, however, nothing came.

In 1641 Marion de Lorme and the Marquis of Worcester visited together one of the Paris madhouses. Looking through the bars of his cell was a man named Solomon de Cause.

"I am not mad," he cried to the visitors, "I am not mad! But I have made a discovery that would enrich the country that would adopt it. But I am not mad. I am not mad."

"The poor creature says that he has discovered a wonderful power in the use of steam from boiling water," explained the keeper. "He came from Normandy, about four years ago, to present to the king a statement of the wonderful effects that might be produced from his invention. Cardinal Richelieu sent him away without listening to him. Solomon persisted, and, following the cardinal wherever be went, finally so annoyed him with his discovery that he had him shut up in the Bicetre as a madman."

The Marquis of Worcester, not being dependent upon Richelieu, went back to England to work at the same problem that had cost Solomon de Cause his liberty. He succeeded so well that in 1656 he erected in London a machine which "raised water more than forty feet by the power of one man only." What the machine was used for, or if it was used for anything, we are not told.

After this, however, progress was more rapid, and in 1718 steam was for the first time put into industrial harness by a Cornish miner named Savary, who built an engine to pump water from the mines. Fifty years later Watt built his engine, and the steam age began.

http://pinnaclewebs.com/railroadstories/rrmmv1n1/ancestry.asp

Knight-Dragon
Oct 09, 2001, 09:04 PM
:eek: Have the Romans survived, we could be living on Mars by now. But at least, we have gotten to the beginning of the Space Age and the Information Age. Better late than never. For that, I'm well-content.

amadeus
Oct 10, 2001, 12:30 PM
I'm glad the revolution happened when it did.

Do you really want to live on a boring, desolate planet? :P

Le Petit Prince
Oct 10, 2001, 12:49 PM
eeeeuuuhhh yes...:scan:

The idea was the worst moment in human history....so I was saying that it was the fall of Rome...and all this technology lost

Graeme the mad
Oct 10, 2001, 04:12 PM
You people think the steam engine is amazing that early on?

THE BATTERY EXISTED BEFORE 0 AD!!!!!!!!!!!!

It really is true - the baghdad battery it is called, and what is more they were probably used for electeroplating statues

Sodak
Oct 11, 2001, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Graeme the mad
THE BATTERY EXISTED BEFORE 0 AD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, the Minoans had them, others in the eastern mediterranean region used them as well. And working clocks, too. Too bad they got blown up...

floppa21
Oct 11, 2001, 01:26 PM
Well hell, when was the potato used as a source of energy for the first time? Potatoes been around forever, but I'm thinkin probably not used until recently eh?

Robespierre
Oct 11, 2001, 04:31 PM
Using steam power is not the same thing as the industrial revolution. I'd say that the Black Plague was the single most important thing in the development of industry - it wiped out so many people, Europe was forced to build machines just to work a vast empire. Back in Roman or Egyptian days, there were so many slaves the Industrial Revolution never would have happened, because it was unnecessary. It's the same reason Factories got built in the Northern US, not in the South, and why third world countries with gigantic populations, like India or China, aren't the most powerful.

Knight-Dragon
Oct 11, 2001, 08:39 PM
Very true. Like they said, necessity is the mother of invention.

But I think the Plague happenned some centuries before the Industrial Revolution, so it may not really be that relevant. I think that the wide dissemination of knowledge and mass education of the people due to printing are more important in enabling it. Also the tendency for Western families to be small (i.e. like nuclear families) so that more can be invested in each individual by the family (like education, inherited wealth, individual rights etc). Plus the Agricultural Revolution which happenned just slightly before it also helped by increasing the nos of people (and hence the market for goods).

And the Agricultural Revolution happenned cos travellers and navigators brought back advance farming methods from China. ;) This is not widely known.

starlifter
Oct 13, 2001, 02:11 AM
SOME three thousand years before George Stephenson demonstrated to the world that a locomotive is a more powerful servant than a horse, I'm still waiting for the example of the 3,000 year old Egytpian steam engine... even a steam-powered narrow gauge RR would do, or perhaps a steam ship, or a steam powered loom. :lol:

Whether Hero was right or not, it is certain that he himself, one hundred and thirty years before the birth of Christ, knew something of the power of steam. I still don't get how shoving one's face into the steam of boiling water equates to an industrial revolution or harnessing the power of steam. The British were making tea long before the IR, and the teapots made noise from escaping steam when the water boiled... but that compares not to the IR, LOL...

BTW, the Romans were using steam for basic things like in their bathhouses, for hundreds of years... but they did not approach anything resembling the age of Steam. I presume that's what this thread is about.?!

With lots of slaves, ancient Empires had little incentive to develop machines anywhere the complexity of the 1700's. :)

Knight-Dragon
Oct 13, 2001, 04:45 AM
"With lots of slaves, ancient Empires had little incentive to develop machines anywhere the complexity of the 1700's."

Not only slaves but any nation/empire with large reserves of muscle power. E.g. China, India etc. Sometimes when I look back, it's amazing that we get to our present stage of technology at all. :eek:

Also I think discovering new tech and applying them for pratical everyday usage are really two quite different things. For example like the Japanese. In the modern age, they didn't really make many new scientific discoveries. But they sure make good electronics goods, cars and so on.

marshal zhukov
May 08, 2003, 11:32 PM
The Industrial Revolution is not about steam power, or railroads. Steam power and railroad have little to do with the Industrial Revolution.
Industrial Revolution is about the start of a relentless pursuit to acumulate CAPITAL, IR is about the birth of our beloved system: Capitalism, that up until then existed only incompletely. IR is about the birth of the market society, is the time in which the factory takes over the scene.
Steam power and railroad were nothing more than products of that time.
IR is about private ownership of the Factors of Production: land labour and capital, that is why is the birth of capitalism, I believe.

animepornstar
May 08, 2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by floppa21
Well hell, when was the potato used as a source of energy for the first time? Potatoes been around forever, but I'm thinkin probably not used until recently eh?
the knowledge about how to distil alcohol from potatoes came to sweden from england in the 18th century so maybe potatoes was used as source of energy for the first time in the late 17th or early 18th century.

TheStinger
May 09, 2003, 03:20 AM
very western euro centerd to say the ind revoultion would have happened if the roamn empire survived.

What about China, Japan, India and the Byzantine empire. Why didn't they have an industrial revolution.

The revolution as said above was more about how industry was organised and funded, it had some technological foundations but in reality the ind revolution paved the way for tech innovation not the other way round

Adebisi
May 09, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Robespierre
Using steam power is not the same thing as the industrial revolution. I'd say that the Black Plague was the single most important thing in the development of industry - it wiped out so many people, Europe was forced to build machines just to work a vast empire.

Well, like 8 said, the Plague was centuries before, but the population decrease during the 17th century must have had a similar effect.

Yoda Power
May 09, 2003, 01:17 PM
wow this thread is from 2001, why do you dig such an old thread out?

marshal zhukov
May 09, 2003, 05:50 PM
Just because the thread is old it doesn't mean it is useless or out of date.
It is better to bump them up then to start a thread with the same topic or about the same thing. If we don't bump them up soon we will be starting threads about the same thing over and over and over and over again.
I don't mind bring to life old threads for as long as I have something interesting to add.
Old threads are not garbage, if they are ,please, delete them.