To the Mayors and citizens of Esquiline province.
I guess you know me by now; Rik Meleet Governor of Esquiline province since Esquiline was founded.

I welcome Deputy Governor Peri to the province.

I expect all Mayors to fully cooperate and to be active. I can't do it alone. I would really like to know from every Mayor a buildqueue proposal and a laborer distribution in his/her city and what tiles should be improved by workers. Please post them several hours before the next turn chat.

Next turnchat scheduled: Thursday, September 11th, 1:00pm CDT, 20:00 RMT

I've set out the goals for Esquiline for this term.
They are to build up culture, produce canons and most of all workers. The corrupt, shield-low cities of Coneland, Dinas Emrys, Wandering Gnome Hills, Persian Landing, Babs Landing are selected for this, combined with sometimes Palatine and North Shore.

Esquiline is famous for their sons and daughters who are extremely well skilled in the arts of the worker. Our nation has set itself huge tasks. We want to stun the world by building Universal Suffrage and Hoover Dam, while also creating a Trans Fanatican Railroad. Esquiline will play a supporting role, no the supporting role in this. We make sure that the goals of those far away fellow countrymen in Capitoline, Aventine, Quirinal and Province number 5 can do their thing while we build our nation.

Also Esquiline's destiny is to become the cultural and financial heartland of the Nation. It's banks, harbors and culture giving buildings we want as well. Culture was pushed to the edge of existence. Do not allow this to divert us from building up culture in the most beautiful province of Fanatica. Do build temples, libraries, universities etc. Culture is the glue which holds the nation together and Esquiline is the glue-factory!

Ode to Esquiline

Oh my beloved Esquiline,
Surrounded by seas, divided by the canal,
with Abundancy bay in your heart,
and The highlands to the west,
The valley in our east,
you are my dream, my muse.

Esquiline,
you are fine,
You have yourself,
total cities twelve,
With mountians and rivers,
which brings me the shivers,
your valley, your bay,
Like Jupiter's Ray,
Your glory a shrine
oh my dear Esquiline.

Rik Meleet
Governor of Esquiline.
Your Governor.

Term 4 Esquiline Province (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60381)

State of the Province 1550 AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Esquiline_excell2.JPG

Cities and their Mayors

Nar Shaddaa- CivGeneral (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=18319)
Skunkworks- Bootstoots (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=28260)
Palatine- ScorpiusAP (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=21461)
Klixus-Major- Vander (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=25965)
Aqualondë- Noldodan (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=18335)
Go Home Xerxes- VACANT
Persian Landing- VACANT
North Shore (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63567) - War Mongrol (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=32277)
Babs Landing- Civanator (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=7933)
Wandering Gnome Hills-Fier Canadien (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=17343)
Coneland (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63632) - Conehead234 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=26452)
Dinas Emrys- VACANT

Peri (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=21236) : If you want I appoint you as demi-Mayor or Temporary Mayor of all vacant cities. If you rather not, I'll do it.

Mayor of Klixus- Major signing in.

Hello Rik Meleet. I'd like to apply for being a mayor in your magnificent province. I'd especially like to be mayor of the haven of the swans (->Alqualondë). However, if that isn't possible (because last term mayor still wants this city, or because you've already given it), feel free to apppoint me to whatever city you'd like to.

Originally posted by Fier Canadien
Hello Rik Meleet. I'd like to apply for being a mayor in your magnificent province. I'd especially like to be mayor of the haven of the swans (->Alqualondë). However, if that isn't possible (because last term mayor still wants this city, or because you've already given it), feel free to apppoint me to whatever city you'd like to.
Take your pick of the Mayor-less cities.

I'll take WGH, please (and I didn't suspect the position cascade that's currently giving me P5-it's a total surprise, otherwise i wouldn't have asked for anything else, but why not?).

Wandering Gnome Hills it is for you Fier Canadian.

Mayor Conehead reporting in.
Continue with the worker production.

Hi Rik. Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to working with the new team. I am happy to care for the cities you mention. Thanks.

To the Governor.

I am not convinced of the need to build canon. Would not cultural improvements be better instead. Esquiline is in no danger from attack. The cavalry can reach you in a matter of hours now we have the railway.

Regards

For coneland after the worker that is due in 2 turns is built, build a courthouse.

Put the laboers on the three mined/ railroaded tiles if possible. I request that one of the tiles (the one that gives the most food) be iragated to increase growth.

If you want me to I can help mayor some of the vacant cities until they get a mayor.

-mayor conehead

From the desk of the Mayor of Klixus- Major

Looking at the Queue and seeing the research on the horizon, I request that after the university is put in, a factory is built. I think my city would like to have it's workers educated before they understand the need for the assembly line. After the factory, follow with the bank and then Cathedral.

Mayor Vander

Originally posted by Peri
I am not convinced of the need to build canon. Would not cultural improvements be better instead. Esquiline is in no danger from attack. The cavalry can reach you in a matter of hours now we have the railway. I proposed the canons for the protection of Esquiline and our nation. Canons (and Artillery) are the best unit for offence, defense and coast-line defense. No city, Army or unit can withstand a prolonged bombardment. And they are never destroyed and work the same turn you attack with it and get counterattacked.

But I chose them because they red-line any ship which comes close to Esquiline's and Fanatica's coast, if war is part of our chosen or unchosen future.

Originally posted by Vander
Looking at the Queue and seeing the research on the horizon, I request that after the university is put in, a factory is built. I think my city would like to have it's workers educated before they understand the need for the assembly line. After the factory, follow with the bank and then Cathedral.I have to apologise; of course we need factories ASAP. I had a blind spot for the possibilities our science will get in the next few turns and only looked for BQ's on what we can build now.

MEA CULPA, MEA MAXIMA CULPA !

Originally posted by Conehead234
If you want me to I can help mayor some of the vacant cities until they get a mayor. Go ahead, I like a lot of input. I've made BQ's for the entire province since term 2 and I do like a lot of opinions and points-of-view. As seen in my Factory-mistake, I need people to point out my mistakes, flaws in my logic and additions I forget. We have to work together to keep Esquiline florishing.

I thank you all for your posts.

Rik Meleet, your Governor

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
I proposed the canons for the protection of Esquiline and our nation. Canons (and Artillery) are the best unit for offence, defense and coast-line defense. No city, Army or unit can withstand a prolonged bombardment. And they are never destroyed and work the same turn you attack with it and get counterattacked.

But I chose them because they red-line any ship which comes close to Esquiline's and Fanatica's coast, if war is part of our chosen or unchosen future.

With respect governor the defence of Esquiline would be better served if those canons became musketmen. Canons do very little damage and if we are at war our cities stand less chance of being captured if there is a musketman present. please reconsider this.

Regards

I have made the final buildqueues. I've removed some canons from the queue in favor of factories in Skunkworks and Nar Shaddaa. Klixus-Majot also gets a factory as 2nd build squeezed in as Vander requested.

Conehead: A courthouse would be an unwise decision for 2 reasons.
1- Our province and our nation need workers. Coneland is so utterly corrupt -no offense Mayor- that it is the best city to build them; we won't loose any shields or commerce. In a way they are nearly free builds.
2- A courthouse costs us in maintenance 1 gpt. If the reduced corruption would pay for that it's the choice to make, but Coneland is too far away from the Palace and the FP, and it is a victim of our more than the optimum number of cities (32 on this map-size), that it won't get any benefits from a courthouse. It's corruption is so extreme that even with a courthouse we won't increase our (uncorrupted) shields. A Police Station would reduce corruption more, but it's 2 maintenance cost might tip the balance in the opposite way.

For the time being corruption-reduction buildings are not useful in the far western part of Esquiline. You'll have accept your, important, role as worker factory, for now. I will ask for some tiles to be irrigated to attract more people to Coneland so it can grow.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BQ_14751.JPG

So how did the turn go?

Dear Esquilinians,

I will not be able to post build-instructions; I am not home. I will ask Deputy Peri to post them in time. Any requests/remarks will be handled by deputy Peri.

Rik

FAO Mayors of Esquiline

Since the last TC only lasted 3 turns the build queue posted for it is still relevant. Unless there are any concerns from you I shall be using it for the next TC 7/9/03. :)

Regards

Vander:

I think Klixus-Major needs attending to. It produces way too much food and not enough shields. It also has an unneeded entertainer.

@All: My proposal for a Buildqueue mainly consists of question marks. I think Esquiline has build enough workers and now should stop serving our nation and look to itself for a while.

Please post suggestions for the question marks.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Buildqueue_1550AD.JPG

Rik Meleet
Your Governor

How about cultural improvements followed by financial improvements?

If it would be possible I would like to assume position of Mayor of North Shore. In any case I feel that we should push for a courthouse in in NS since that is what is costing it the reputation of wat seems to be a ghetto. A court house followed by a library and if possible a university. I feel that is what NS lacks at this point in time. Maybe with these improvements we can bring NS up to speed. These are my proposals and I shall remain a loyal Citizen and hopefully soon a servant of the people.

War_Mongrol: Consider yourself Mayor of North Shore. I'll update the links later.

edit: done

Rik Meleet
Your Governor

Mayors of Esquiline Province answer my call!
I propose something that other Mayors have tried in the past, smoething that would be of help to our community. It is not enough that we as Mayors fine tune our cities, watch them closely, and give our requests. No indeed sir it is not! We must nuture and help the Province which is home to our cities first. I feel that it is in our best interest to, yes monitor and push for the best in our cities, but unite under one common goal, The Refinement and Support of our Province. How might we do this you ask? Well I lay before you the ground work for what I wish to call The Mayor's Council. The plan would be to meet midway between each t/c respectively, or otherwise through a thread and post our budgets, build queues, and needs. Then as one unified body, decide amongst ourselves which items would benifit our Province in a greater sense. Then with the priorities of the Province before us we can concentrate on smaller details that lie within our cities. As the end result we shall have a detailed and solitary document which can be handed to our Governer. Which I hope will increase the chances of our province accomplishing it's goals sooner.
Please fellow Mayors I beckon you to the First Mayor's Council, which I will be honored to host in the fine city of North Shore.

(link coming soon)edited- Bootstoots has informed that there have been attempts in the past, so I have corrected that line.

That's interesting...I tried to do that a little under 3 months ago in this very province. I called it the Esquiline Provincial Senate. Unfortunately, the idea never really took off.

BTW, I really haven't been doing a thing as mayor of Skunkworks, and don't plan to in the future. Should I resign this post and give it to somebody a bit more involved with being mayor? Skunkworks is a relatively high production city and it would suit a new player well.

I shall be posting the TC instructions for the next chat. I shall take into consideration the requests made for each city and the current build queue. Please pm me if there are any concerns with the build queue I propose and we will work them out.

Regards.

I am rather confused now... so this goes to whom ever is cunducting the next turn chat. I am not sure if I have the right saved game or not but the current year I have is 1475AD but I've seen other posts that are later. Anyway if the current building project for North Shore is Aqueduct then I am in agreement with it. How ever the next two build items I woud like implemented since corruption is high and people are unhappy:
Court House (40 turns)
Cathedral (80 turns)

Other actions that I recommend are the minning of the three mountains to the west of North Shore and possibly a rail system connecting Palatine and North Shore to the Empire. This is all outlined in the thread for North Shore (link available below).
Thank you,
War Mongrol

Mayor of north Shore
Humble Servant of the People

To his honour the mayor of North Shore

Greetings. The current year is AD1550. I have proposed that your city build a courthouse next. There is no current unhappines in your city.

It is my intention to have as many tiles as possible improved in Esquiline.

Regards

The thanks of the people of North Shore and ofcourse the humble people servant moi. :)

War_Mongrol,

If you're still having trouble finding the lastest save, here is the save game thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62595)

You will find all of the game saves located here. Go to the term 5 post and look for the Chat 2 link.

PM me if you have any further questions!

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

Mr. Governor,

We have about 80 workers right now. While this is an admirable improvement, I don't think we should let up on worker production until we are near the 120 range. We have too many hills to mine, and we will soon have to deal with the pollution from our many factories.

Please read the following statement, which I had posted in deshelbr's Quirnial discussion thread in the Citizen's Forum. I am hoping that Esquiline can try to follow the same guidelines in its western cities, especially the four that are currently producing workers.

Your support of this strategy is crucial to our success, Govenor Rik ---- especially since you will be leading today's chat. I have posted further recommendations in my turnchat instructions.

thank you for your tme.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
Domestic Leader

One thing to remember about the worker farms(my pet project ;) ) is that we really need to irrigate over as many mines as possible in that region, as well as equip each of the four cities with a Granary(if it doesn't have one already).

My goal here is to try to get a true rollover, basically meaning that we can produce a worker in the same amount of of time that we can expect growth from the city. If this means rushing that worker, I am fine with it.

Also, for this to work best, I would like us to keep those cities below size 6. My reason for this would be that cities of Size 6 and under have a food box half the size as those in cities over Size 7. A Granary will cut this by another half. So theoretically, we can get a quicker rollover with less work by keeping these cities smaller.

Let me know what you think of this plan, and please let me know if you have any questions. It's a bit confusing, but will run like clockwork once we get it up to speed. :)

With all due respect to our Domestic Leader,

I feel that while any one of the cities in Esquiline Province is patriotic and would do anything to better serve our Nation, I find that some I repeat some of our current requests for the Governor are to better our cities in the better for the Nation. As you know we are the farthest western Province and as such suffer high levels of corruption. Some of us in the past have begun to place emphasis on the construction on the builiding of courthouses, which I might add would also help with production and food. The less stolen the more for our Nation. And if you view our cities as "worker factories" then would it not be in the interest of this idea to make sure that the cities are well equipped to handle such a task? I trust that you intentions are for the bettering of our Nation and feel most aggrieved to question or comment on your grand plans, but I must keep the interets of the Nation and more importantly of the Citizens in mind.

Respectfully,
War Mongrol

Mayor of North Shore and Servant of the People

Esquiline has done it's part in the Workers creation for now. If you believe more are needed then more will be build, but now the focus of Esquiline is cultural, science and economics.

Rik

War_Mongrol & Rik Meleet,

For the record, I have always hated the term "worker factory" as it makes the task seem less grand that the pursuit of culture and commerce. I prefer to call them Provider Cities. However, the simple fact still remains that even with a Courthouse, four of your cities(Coneland, WGHills, Dinas Emrys and Babs Landing) will not gain more than 1-2 spt or commerce.

So, rather than throw an alarming amount of gold on improvements that will never bear proper fruit, I feel we should use these cities in the simplest manner possible --- to build workers. Workers are inexpensive to rush, and with the addition of a Granary to the four cities(if they are not already there), their population will bounce back in a manner that will allow us to produce workers for quite some time.

Mayor War_Mongrol, you will hopefully be pleased by the fact that North Shore is not included on this list of cities. That is because since it lies due west of our capital, a Courthouse gives it a fighting chance to be productive. That pleases me as well, because the last thing I want to do is take our hard-working mayors out of loop due to our national interests. But the harsh reality of corruption makes all of our wishes moot for your four great cities --- the numbers simply won't be there.

The good news is: I will ask for no workers from any other one of your cities. And since many of your cities lie so far from our capital, you will receive much more rush gold than Capitoline or Aventine. Look at this term's turnchat instructions for proof. :)

Please take another look at this proposal. With 8 cities devoted to constant worker production(4 in Quirnial and four here), we can realize our dreams of a nation that much faster. Hills can be mined quickly. Pollution won't linger around for years. Cities that are equipped to receive extra population can benefit from Esquiline workers. It may not seem that glorious, but I still contend that providing the backbone of our nation is far more meaningful than a few extra Cathedrals in a culturally sound region.

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
Domestic Leader

Rik,

If you do end up buying into this plan, it is important to replace the grassland mines in those four cities with irrigation. This will help them turn over population faster, and will not incur a loss of production. Thank you.

Inspired by your governors signature, I had a look at the Demogame and your province. I am disgusted by the way you manage your resources. Just some examples:[list=1] Alqualonde can't grow beyond its current size, builds bank and has granary in queue. It should build worker now to mine some of those over-irrigated tiles in order to get more production!
WG Hill works mine, shields going to corruption. Work irrigated tile, grow to size 6 to get wltkd to reduce corruption. Do not build worker!
Dinas Emrys grows in 6, builds worker in 4. Very bad! Don't work mined hill, work irrigated grasland!
Skunkworks should be mmed to grow in 2; then it can build worker next turn without loosing pop.
e.t.c.
[/list=1]

Greetings from the Lieutenant Governor of Esquiline

Thank you for your comments. We curently have vacancies for city mayors. Your keen eye would be an asset to us. I hope you consider joining us. :)

Regards

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
War_Mongrol & Rik Meleet,
....
I feel we should use these cities in the simplest manner possible --- to build workers. Workers are inexpensive to rush, and with the addition of a Granary to the four cities(if they are not already there), their population will bounce back in a manner that will allow us to produce workers for quite some time.

IMHO this is inappropriate for a Democracy game. This is socialism/communism. The request should be for the province to provid 4 workers every 10 turns. OTOH there are enough workers; they are just used grossly inefficient.[list=1] You don't railroad mountains before mining them.
You pile enough workers on on one tile to finish the job in one turn. You do not(!) work many adjacent tiles in parallel.
If the city has no hospital, you mine to get more shields, you don't irrigate for more than 24 food.
[/list=1] PS: Looking at other provinces, Esquiline is not doing particularly bad. And that makes me sad for a "democracy". :(

PPS: I don't have the time to actively try mass education in this game. ;) And I also concede that I lack the pedagogic twist and often use harsh words. I hope I will be pardoned for this.

PPPS: You find a lot of great examples with ample discussion in the succession game thread and of course in the GOTMs and their spoilers.

You raise some interesting point tao. As was noted, we have open cities looking for mayors to help guide them. In just over a week you will start to see nominations opening up for various positions - I hope you'll bring your energy and perspective and campaign for a position.

Don't stop posting - new blood and energy are always needed!

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

Originally posted by tao

IMHO this is inappropriate for a Democracy game. This is socialism/communism. The request should be for the province to provid 4 workers every 10 turns.

PPS: I don't have the time to actively try mass education in this game. ;) And I also concede that I lack the pedagogic twist and often use harsh words. I hope I will be pardoned for this.

As an extension of the Democracy principle I, as the Governor of the province, leave city management i.e. laborer arrangement and use up to the Mayors. I do involve myself with buildqueues and advise Mayors to use laborers in a certain way.

Mass education is useful for some; most of the participants are on Monarch / Regent level. OTOH, if I want a perfect game (perfect in my view that is), I'd play a normal 1 person game. The Demogame is something more social and not solely focussed on doing the very best possible steps and actions in order to get a perfect game. The attraction, for me that is, is to interact with other civ-players on the game, without the real pressure of playing perfectly. And you do learn some things as well, you can later optimize in your own games.

The part I enjoy most is discussing on details in turnchats and having forum-based discussions on what to do.

Rik

So do we have some new screenies to look at? (I can't load the game, there being the version discrepancey between PC and Mac)

In response to Toa's comments I think that reason that we are playing this game is to have fun. Sure we could play this game to a T but the reason I joined was to go out meet others "play house" so to speak and just plainly have fun. I know that we could easily turn our civ into a major power house but we do it this way so taht we all play a role and sometimes, just sometimes it's fun to be a pain in the backside. :)

1 screenshot coming up.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Esquiline_1605_AD.JPG

Governor,

In preperation for the Space Race, the major production centers of Fanatica need to be identified and developed.

Prior to the next chat, I would like you to identify those cities in your province, that with a Factory, Hospital and decent population (15+) will be capable of producing 50 shields per turn or more.

For each of those citied, please identify all needed tile improvements to maximize the sustainable production for that city.

I will then work with the Domestic Leader to assist the cities as needed.

Thanks,
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

The only city I can really get upto 50 shields is Nar Shaddaa. In order to do that I need all tiles within the city perimeters (some tiles are taken by Xak Tsaroth), I have to irrigate the now forested tile and I have to work the mountains with mines. Perhaps I can get it upto 60. Max size is 17 or 18 or 19 (depending what's under the forest.

Perhaps I can get Skunkworks up there too, but that will reduce several other cities, like Klixus-Major.

The proposed Buildqueues:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Building_1605.JPG

Aack! take away from my precious Klixus??? NNNOOOOO!!!!


Seriously, I'm ok with that.

My Lord Governor,

We are nearing the end of both this term, and the Industrial Age. I am asking you to help me in improving your province.

For the past few chats, Vice President Rik Meleet and I have been laboriously going through each city on a periodic basis looking for improvements to cash rush. This has dramatically extended the time for each turn chat.

We will not do this anymore. As Governor, part of your duties include searching for items to cash rush, and bringing them to the attention of the Domestic Minister.

For the last two turn chats, neither Rik nor I will be reviewing cities for cash rushes. Our expectation is that each Govenor will identify those improvements that make sense to cash rush. Please post that list in the Budget thread as usual for the Domestic Minister, or his Deputy, to review. Be sure to look ahead, and plan for a full 10 turns. Improvements besides just the immediate build can be rushed, and rushes can happen on any turn, not just the pre-turn.

Our treasury is flush, and will continue to grow at around 600 gold per turn. Please, help us spend it!

Thanks,
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

From the desk of the Mayor of Klixus- Major

Just as an option, I wouldn't mind having the factory or hospital in my city rushed.

Mayor Vander

Vander: I'll look into it. In the T/C Klixus-Major was mentioned for rushing the factory, but was not approved by the Dom Rep (some strange guy called Rik Meleet).

The cost was too high, our treasury too small and the beneift too small to do it. Perhaps when we have more cash.

Dear Governor

I require a short synopsis on your province, Links to city threads if applicable for the website. Please PM them to me.

Thanks,
Fionn

Governor and Fionn,

You will find a current city list with links here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1000695#post1000695) . If you find any errors, please let me know.

Well, you got that Forest tile you wanted, even without actually reciving my permission, kinda jumped the gun in your instructions....
:p

Don't care though cause after looking at the save Xak Tsaroth it doesn't really hurt the city (didn't have a chance to look last time).

So did I end up getting my factory/hospital rushed?

For if I did, I would like to build one of the Destroyers the Military Department is requesting. Having a Harbor and Factory puts my city into a fine position for producing one of these fine ships.

Special delivery for mister "Vander".

Sign at the dotted line please.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Klixus_Major_1675_AD.JPG

Thank you very much, governor.
From the looks of it, I request that my city produce a destroyer before the bank is built. The military Department requests it.

Given War Mongrol's withdrawl from the governer race, there is now an opening for the Governor of our Provence. I plan on filling that vacancy. I encourage each and everyone that reads this to vote for me. I have been a mayor our our provence for many a term, now. I have been you brother as mayor and now I ask that you help me enter this position of Governorship. I will lead us as Rik has, with dedication and determination to do the best for our provence. You can have faith in me to do the best for our provence.

A thounsand thanks,
Vander

I wouldn't be sad if Vander is governing this province. I do want an election for this.

Go Vander!