I'm looking for something of the style of civ 3, but more realistic, with real forces inside the country, more problems, more economical influences, real production modes, people actually producing, investing capital, workers, real social stratification, different markets, private property... things like that. Political Ideologies conflicts, etc. Anyone know?

There is an Other Games forum. Moved. :)

i dont hink there's a gme that does all that seb. if you want a medieval war / build game, i liek stronghold. the graphics arent to die for, buthte gamepaly is good and you control each person, not a group of peopel in a unit. if your only in for war, then the total war series will do you good, and is one of the best strat games out there. if your into the peaceful infastructure side of things with a bit ofwar thrown in, i think civ is the best you canget, but i havent looked intothat kinda game for a whiel, go onto amazon and see if there are any gamesthat take your fancy.

I have been looking for a variety of games in civ-style. what i found out was that all games i've found focus on some aspects and neglect others.
there's a free civ2 clone out: c-evo (http://c-evo.org). the game is still under development, but that's a part of the fun. it features more detailed city management, a great unit draft option to create the units you want, that means assign your own attack and defense points etc. and a really huge tech tree.
another hint i can give: i've tried "europa universalis 2" which is more a historical simulation. i haven't come too far with that - it's quite hard to figure out what to do to get your empire expanding because of a lot interdependencies. almost everything you do has positive effects in one area and negative ones somewhere else - even two centuries later! it looks really great despite of the 2d-map and it has an ancient feeling that fits to the time scale - about 1420-1820. you can play as dozens of countries and you'll have even more opponents. it's from "paradox entertainment" and published by ubisoft, i bought it for a reduced price some weeks ago.
i could tell you about some other interesting and challenging political games with a more narrow focus like hidden agenda or middle east political simulator, but i will leave you with this tips right now.
i'll come back to this thread later.

You might want to try Eurpopa Universalis 2. It's real time, more detailed and "historical" in some aspects, probably less so in others.

thanks
When i say forces, i meant the forces that are within the society... Like having carpenters, weavers, etc, you know real commerce and production. With differents forms of government ideologies included, commercing manufactured products, private investors, etc. That would be really complete, plus the militar part of civ 3. I guess i'm asking for the impossible, and that i'd need a super mega computer for it...

Europa Universalis 1 is easier to understand, funner, and cheaper :D

Also try Age of Empires 1 or 2, and maybe a sports game thrown in there (football is fun even for civ3 fans ;) )

age of empires is far less realistic than civ.

or try Rise of Nations, its Civilization and Empire Earth fused together....on crack.

Yes, RON is quite good. Not as deep maybe, but great gameplay.

Originally posted by Hygro
age of empires is far less realistic than civ.

In what respect? Remember, AoE is a war game, and from that standpoint, its not any less realistic than Civ3.

@ sebanaj: forces within society ... if you can cut out the empire building thing then you might want to try "hidden agenda". it's an old dos-game from like 1988, it has only black and white graphics and looks like a text adventure, but don't be araid of that. you are in the role of an south american post revolution leader and you have to lead the country to democracy and elections within four years.
mainly it's like the diplomatic section of civ where you can talk to foreign ambassadors, campesinos, civil rights activists, unionists, farmers, landless, rigt-wing generals, left-wing rebels, bishops, bankers and so on - about fourty parties that represent the social forces within your bankrupt country. at your side you have four ministers choosen from three different political parties who will help you through the political work.
all of those people you meet have their own ideas - or "hidden agendas" (including your ministers) so you have to talk to the right people at the right time. sometimes they don't do what they told you they will do or what you requested to do, so it's an ai that is actually LYING to you! :groucho: By following or refusing or altering their proposals you are leading the country in almost every aspect. there's even a statistical charts' section where you can find clues about how you are doing in foreign loans, feeding of the people, coffee + cotton production, medical + educational service and so on.
a games takes about 2 to 3 hours if you manage not to get assassinated, so you might want to try it right again. try different strategies, be a new fidel castro, or try to build up economics like a neo-liberal.
you can get it here: http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/sw/games/hidden-agenda.html
just e-mail to the author and you'll get it.

I still play some oldies like Imperialism or Imperialism II. I really regret that some of Imperialism's features have not been implemented in Civ games.

Thanks for all the replies, i'll try those programs

Try e-civ: official site (e-civ.univer.kharkov.ua/eng).

Much more realistic than Civ-1-2-3, but the main concept is the same.

tropico is ok

try it before you buy it

btw its not really an alternative to civ, its more like......well tropico

I would suggest Europa Universalis 2

I love Tropico and it's Paradise Island expansion. Haven't tried Tropico 2 though. But if you want to deal with actual people and political movements and instability....go for that.

I would endorse the recommendation for Europa Universalis II. It contains most of the features you look for.