I was playing a game last night and noticed that I could sell my WM to an AI for 1 gold repeatedly, and get all their gold (If I had wanted to).

I tried with all the AI in that game and they would all give me their gold.

I checked next turn and the bug was still there.

Next I checked 2 more games. 1 game could do this, the other couldn't.

FWIW the first game I noticed it on was started in 1.14f :eek:, but it's a PBEM and they last a long time. I didn't recall what version of Civ the second game was started on (that also had the bug), but the game without it was a recent game, started in 1.27.

Should I post the saves here? I would have to post admin passwords too, so I want to wait until the game is finished first.

Thats a nasty bug. Havent noticed this because I usually make one map selling round and stop when I know I bought sold everything. This can disrupt gameplay considerably

I noticed this too in my game against CB, which went so badly that I even made use of this a couple of turns. The only thing is that I don't think it's a bug. IIRC you can trade you WM for 1gp per civ per turn, and they want to pay because many times there are slight differences with what they already know, an additional road or irrigation or so.. (ignoring the fact that they know the whole WM at all time of course :D). But again, it's only one trade per turn, so no real bug, I think..

That would be a bad bug indeed anarres, but I can't seem to get it to work in my PBEMs myself, at least not on 1.21f, the AI will only pay me once for an unchanged world map, all further deals result in them being insulted about it.

Maybe the map doesn't update properly for the AI in older versions of the game under certain circumstances? Is it possible to post some more information about the actual situation when you traded in this thread, without giving away too much to your opponents? Or otherwise maybe in your spoilers?

Originally posted by Kemal
That would be a bad bug indeed anarres, but I can't seem to get it to work in my PBEMs myself, at least not on 1.21f, the AI will only pay me once for an unchanged world map, all further deals result in them being insulted about it.

It will work if you found a new city, build a new road, or new irrigation/mine/plant tree, etc like Plux said). A lot of time, if you just go ahead and trade WM for WM to every single civ first, then come back and sell your WM to each one of them again, this time, you will get 1 gold. Why? Because at least one of the AIs may have just finished a new road or their cities just increase in size or something.

Plux:

The bug is that in a single turn you can sell the same WM to the same civ for 1 gold in the same turn repeatedly. You can drain the coffers of every civ in the game like this, every turn! :eek:

Kemal:

The games are all at 1.27: the reference to 1.14 was that the game was started in 1.14 and got upgraded to 1.21 then 1.27...

Does anyone here understand what I am saying or am I not explaining it well enough? :cry:

You've explained it crystal-clear anarres, and as I said it will not work when I want to sell them an unchanged world map, with which I meant no changes at all, not even a single tile.

What I thought was the case is that both the games you've encountered this phenomenon in were started under 1.14f, and since I couldn't reproduce it in 1.21, I hoped it only happened in older games started under old versions of the game, thus it being already a thing of the past. If that's not the case, let's hope it can be fixed soon as it's really a severe bug.. :(

Does this happen with all your games?

I've never seen this and I trade pretty hard, sometimes but I can not recall ever being able to repeatably get more gold for a map the AI already has.

There are 2 current games in which it is happening. A third game I checked didn't have this bug.

My game vs DrA for one, and the other I can't remember, but it's a current PBEM...

I noticed it because I was selling my WM around for pennies as I needed every little bit that turn. I got a WM from the last AI in the list and went back to sell that for 1 gold to all the other AI's. To my suprise I found the other AI's offering me WM and 1 gold for it - which is wrong since I had just bought their WM a moment before. I did the trade and went back in to find I could do it again, straight away. I checked the other AI and they were the same...

Originally posted by anarres
The bug is that in a single turn you can sell the same WM to the same civ for 1 gold in the same turn repeatedly. You can drain the coffers of every civ in the game like this, every turn! :eek:

In that case, it has never happened to me and I'm playing PTW 1.21. If this bug has happened to me, I'm sure I would have noticed since I usually talk to each of the AIs twice (at least) during my trading turn.

I've seen this several times.

I am not sure when it starts, but I know that it starts later in the game either after entering a later Era or maybe after some Civ advance.

You can take all their gold (in one turn) if you want to spend the time.

If the Civ is very rich you can get 2 or more gold per trade, making no changes to your map.

It is definitely an exploit.

I am playing 1.27 PTW, I think it was also happening in earlier releases.

I am just playing single player unmodded.

Good to have it confirmed Pounder! :thumbsup:

Not just an exploit, but a bug too...

I can also confirm that. I've even made a thread about it some time ago:

Priceless map (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49393)

It wasn't under 1.27f though (april 2003). Also, not all civs were so kind to continuously buy my map. Obviously a bug, probably "updated" flag for map wasn't correctly set after each trade.

:hmm:
Maybe ai playing order plays a role?

I have checked some vanilla saves last night, nothing seems wrong.

Side note: Some civs had obviously the same map. I could offer some stuff and get WM from one when asking "what would you...", but the other civ didn't offer their map (the deal would have been perfectly fine when I put their map on the table, too).
I changed trading order and the other civ offered the map first while the second civ didn't. So here, the second civ knew that their map was worthless. This, of course, is slightly different from giving a map, but knowledge update in the context of WM value during trade was made.

Regarding the bug, maybe you have to pay gold for their WM numerous times as well?

I posted about this in an earlier patch bug forum but nobody seemed to care.

The prerequisite for this to happen is that you and at least one other civ have radio. Any ai that has radio will stop realizing that they have traded maps. The civs that do not have radio yet will continue to trade maps normally.

I'm fairly certain that there are more specifics to the bug where you can clean them out, but it will never happen until you and at least one ai has radio.

This makes trading in the modern era with lots of civs a pain, because there is no way to know if you have thier map already.