OK folks, time for my first SG. I have toyed with several concepts, but recent discussions about bugs, exploits, and the like have pushed me in this direction.

I cannot claim pride of authorship in this concept, it is a repeat of Sirian's (and others') concept from Realms Beyond Civilization Epic 12, The Gauntlet. For more information on the original, look here (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/epic12.html).
This one managed to humble a few players accustomed to winning deity games.

The basics follow:

* No purchasing workers. No workers through diplomacy by any means, including peace.
* No upgrading units. Ever. You build a unit, it remains that type of unit "for life".
* You may not pillage your own lands. (Includes no disconnecting your own resources).
* No trading away of your last unit of any given resource. You must keep one for yourself.
* No scrolling through cities during the production phase, "between turns".
* No prebuilding of any kind. No placeholders. Ever. You are NOT allowed to change projects. Or rather, if you change city projects from one to another, you MUST wipe out any shields stored in the box by first changing to Wealth, which will erase all but one shield, then (and only then) may you assign a city to a new item.
*No merging of workers or settlers into cities.


There is no restriction on changing projects when the shield storage box is empty (because a project has just completed, or if the city has been running wealth while "waiting" for a new option to come available). Note that forced labor or cash rushbuys are still allowed, as is disbanding units in cities (with the accompanying shield conversion); but you are not allowed to rush a cheap item from zero storage, change to wealth and retain one shield, then rush a large item on the same turn (to shortcut the double cost of rushing from zero). Only one rush per city per turn, for this game.

Difficulty: Deity
Civilization: Mongols
World Size: Standard
Opponents: Seven Random
Terrain: Continents, 70% water, rugged
Climate: Cold
Barbarians: Roaming
Rules: Standard
Victory: Any

Nota Bene: I have modified the Keshik so it treats both mountains AND hills as grassland.

As far as other rules--avoid all RB exploits. Also, avoid the RCP strategy, let's build cities without trying to expose the mathematics of the Civ3 rank corruption calculator. To avoid the rank corruption bug--we will keep our palace where it starts.

Who is up for the challenge?

- Bam-Bam


EDIT: Here is the starting location

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-start.jpg

Signed up:

Bam-Bam
Sirian
Hotrod
6thGenTexan
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

Sleep Deprived have to stick together. I'm in for some punishment. (Hey, where have I heard that before? For that matter, this game concept sounds vaguely familiar too.)

Could be my last SG pre-Conquests. :)


- Sirian

No purchasing workers. No workers through diplomacy by any means, including peace.

Question only - not a signup.
How about capturing them? Is that valid?
That question came to mind the second I read the rules.

Is leader rushing valid? I would guess so.

Good god, man. 5000 posts, Lee? And I thought I was bad. :lol:

Yes, capturing workers is allowed. Leader rushing is allowed.

This concept will be especially painful in an SG format, though. There won't be any such thing as a casual veto.


- Sirian

I was hoping to pull you into this one, Sirian. Glad to have you aboard.

I have to test out the mod I made to the Keshik before I can post a start screenie. Of course, there is also the matter of finding a few more sick souls to join in the fun. :crazyeye:

Okay bring it on!

Originally posted by Sirian
Good god, man. 5000 posts, Lee? And I thought I was bad. :lol:

Yes, capturing workers is allowed. Leader rushing is allowed.

- Sirian


Well at least 1000 of those post are probably - got it, or who is up next. :rolleyes:
I am still barely on the top 25 posters list.


Looks like the best worker source is to capture a city a rush foreign workers every other turn ;) I now prefer that over starvation.

I've got room for another. I've fallen way behind on Epic 36 and it does not look like I will come close to finishing it.

6gntxn

Sorry to hear that, Tex. Still five weeks left, sure you can't make it? Even if you had to hurry through some turns with all everything turned off? My report's going to have over 400 screenshots and take up about fifty pages. :) The ultimate Civ3 experience.

- Sirian

Ok. Hotrod and Texan, you are in. That makes four so far--shooting for five or six brave souls....sure you are not up for it, Lee?

OT--Epic 36--hmm--30% of the way through---55 screenies taken so far. Certainly will not use them all, but it will be a monster report. Probably another of my trademark 11th hour finishes, as well.

I'm not a brave soul! Not to put a fine point on it, I'm actually a bloody coward! :D
I must say that I really like the restrictions and settings you've drawn up, Bam-Bam, but I feel I'm not ready for a Diety Game WITH all the restrictions. Emporer level, sure!

So good luck to you all, and I will be lurking on this thread with cowardly gusto!

I have tested the Keshik mods with success.

EDIT: Start not suitable for sane players :crazyeye:

A start will be posted Tuesday. Save will be posted when we have a full roster. We can then discuss player order and general strategy.

One easy quesition? The palace can't be moved at all or just by abandoning. NO leader rushing a palace?

Edit: What exactly is the corruption rank bug?

Whoa! What a start. :eek: I've got a strategy suggestion. "HEAD SOUTH". :crazyeye: Or north, if we're on the south end of the minimap. No way can we win from THAT start position. :nono: MUST... FLY... TOWARD... THE... LIGHT... :ack:

Even Epic 12 had some game and a couple of grass in range of the capital. Another strategic possibility: roll a new map. :lol: If Bam's not in for that plan, DO NOT SETTLE until you see the green of their grass. Doesn't matter how many turns it takes, either. If Karakorum is founded in 3100BC, that's better than living and dying as stone age popsicles.

I mean, seriously. When I signed up for a "cool game" I was thinking :cooool: not :viking: but I'm in for a pound anyway, it seems.

Could... get... ugly... :lol:


- Sirian

As the only player with a Epic 12 victory I can't refuse.
With Epic 36 just finished and my way towards a huge report there should be time for this one.

Oh, and I fully agree with Sirians coments on the starting position.

Welcome aboard Urugharakh!

Sorry about the start--sleep deprivation and football woes made me miss that we have NO FOOD for this start.

Yeah--I just looked again. WHOA :eek: that is a bit too harsh--even for the crowd we have signed up. It took me about ten rolls just to get a cold start with fresh water, and I was happy that I could see a lux. Ah well--I want a challenge--not just instant death. Consider that a wake-up call....yeah, that's it.

New start to be posted when I get home. Now let us never speak of this again. :lol:

@ Hotrod--no palace moves. A description of the corruption rank bug can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62851). I cannot think of a simple method to combat this other than not allowing a palace move. Not allowing a palace move also seems to fit into the spirit of this game.

Hey Bam-Bam,

I would be interested in playing, but I won't be able to play until after the third of October. So, if you'll have me (and don't mind me missing the first round of two), I'd be interested...

JMB

EDIT: BTW, I'd love to see the start that everyone was saying :eek: about...

Welcome JMB! I have added you to the roster.

That's it! The team is formed. I have edited it into the first post, but here it is as a reminder. This can also be the notional rotation, unless someone has an objection. I'll even take the first twenty with Sirian following me :eek:.

Roster:
Bam-Bam
Sirian
Hotrod
6thGenTexan
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

We'll see where we are when JMB is available to play--I may seed him in at a different spot in the rotation.

And for those who did not see where we are NOT taking the game, here is the sleep-deprived, depressed Raider fan ugly start (SDDRFUS in Sirian/Charis abbreviation-speak)

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-start.jpg

Yeah--let's not go there. A slightly more friendly start will be up this evening. I am not in a hurry to get moving on the game--since I still have over 70% of Epic 36 to complete, so I will likely not play my turns until Wednesday evening. That leaves some time for discussion about the game...


Oh--and one more thing (TM): Opponents in the game will be random.
- Bam-Bam

The most memorable game I had prior to starting the Epics was Apolyton Tournament Game Four, with an icy start worse than that one. The key to success was to MOVE, NOT SETTLE. Moved six tiles south to the edge of the tundra, pulled in some grass and a game, and had enough food to make a go of it. I'd vote for heading toward the equator and only giving up on what could be a legendary situation if we can't find any food by 3500BC. And if we do find food, settle in the tundra, right on the edge of the grass (to redeem one extra tundra tile and waste the minimum amount of time).

I mean, what the heck. Right? How bad can it be? :lol:


- Sirian

Sirian,

You really are a sick one.

I'll give the original start a go this evening. I have a decent alternative in case this one doesn't work out. It is only slightly better--with a game and some grass in sight.

All I can say after looking at this roster is an old poker saying: " If you look around the table and can't figure out who the sucker is your it! "

I mean, what the heck. Right? How bad can it be? - We'll see ;)

It begins....

Early

Move settler three spaces--find lots of bonus grass and stay on the lake. Found Karakorum in 3850BC--pop a deserted hut upon founding the city.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-settle1.jpg

Start on scout. Starting scout reveals a good second city site with grassland wheat. Second hut pops a settler. [dance] Hmm--should this be a TKO? Meet one of Cathy's spears in 3700 BC to the west. Send her warrior code for ceremonial burial and 3g. She is up bronze working on us. Looks like we can choke her away from our land--the free settler will do just that. We meet the Zulu in 3600BC. Nothing to trade--they have CB plus the same starting techs as us. Did I mention we have, um, not-so-friendly neighbors?? Could...get... ugly :lol:

Middle

Ta-Tu founded at the choke by Russia. I think this will mean we need to be prepared for a Russian war sooner rather than later. Hut by original start gives maps :rolleyes: Finish another scout in capital--start on granery. Russia has a SOD of 3 spears and 3 warriors near Ta-Tu. Find one barb camp--the Zulus will take care of that for us. Zulus are also VERY close--capital is in the second ring north from the capital.

Late

We meet the Americans. Burial and 43g buys bronze working. Abe is up masonry on us, as is Cathy. Barbs come calling on Karakorum--lose production on granery and one pop point. Guess that makes up for the bonus settler. :rolleyes: Granery halted in favor of warrior. With the bonus food at Ta-tu (plainscow) and wheatgrass inbetween, we need some protection in Karkorum--only 3 turns are lost if Sirian wants to go back to a granery.

Diplomatic front--Russia, Zulu, and Americans all have 2 cities. Russia and America are up masonry on us. The pillaging of the capital hurt--not sure what the balance is between that and the bonus settler. We are 12 turns into a min mysticism run.

Here is what our situation looks like

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-3000BC.jpg

Good luck to Sirian.

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-3000BC.zip)

Bam-Bam <==== JUST PLAYED
Sirian <===== UP (10-20 turns, your choice)
Hotrod <==== ON DECK (10 turns from here on out)
6thGenTexan
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 hours to complete

IT 3000BC: The situation in the game file does not match the screenshot. The projects are different? :hmm: Which is the "actual" set of projects? I can't even sort it out from the report, so I will just go with what I've been handed.

FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: No prebuilds means NO PROJECT SWITCHING. No casual vetos. "Only three turns lost" is not a phrase we can afford. We will need decisive choices, to be changed around in the middle (with shields poured down the drain) only under extreme circumstances, such as emergency troop needs, or someone having overlooked something even more urgent, which would throw even more away.

Don't even "window shop" other items. No project changes even "just to look" unless we go through wealth first, and kill the stored shields. At least... if Epic 12 rule set is the model here.

We also need to (try to) think and plan ahead. Sometimes the best option is to run wealth for a turn or two, if a tech is due, rather than delay an important new item to build a warrior or something.

The free settler more than makes up for our seemingly bad start, and indeed, there were rich lands just a few tiles away. Sometimes you just gotta buckle down and grit your teeth when things look bad. Civ3 is remarkable in its ability to allow players to recover from deep holes and still compete.

With the capital locked into a granary and TaTu building a warrior, I wake one of TaTu's tatwo warriors and send him tatu the capital. Tatu-daloo now! Git along little dogie. :crazyeye:


2900BC: Our scout meets pinko commie Chinese. They must be exterminated! Oh, wait. We need an army first. :lol:


2800BC: Moscow completes the Colossus. ... SAY WHA...??? Sheesh.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-2800bc.jpg

That is definitely the earliest I've ever seen any AI complete a wonder. (I rushed the Pyramids in 3000BC in an AWE game once). That would also make it the fastest self-built wonder I've ever seen, too.

Warrior built in Tatu, starts settler, swaps to high shield, low food.


2550BC: Our scouts have scouted the lay of the land, methinks. We have a somewhat circular continent with the Zulus at the hub. I'd say that bodes ill for their future. My first ten turns are up. Guess that means I'm in for another ten.

2470BC: Granary complete in Kara. Start settler.

2390BC: Settler complete in TaTu, back to no food size 1, starts a barracks.

2350BC: Zulu scare at home, as one of their warriors enters our border. Next turn, they leave, on beeline home to Z-town. Wonder what that's all about.

2270BC: Kara builds settler, starts another.

2150BC: Found Kazun on the river, 'tween Kara and Z-town. Found Almarikh on the bay, north of Kazan, west of Z-town. Pull the trigger on Iron Working @4th from Zulus, who have lost Ulundi to the Americans. I pay 100% of our available gpt, plus 25g, on the gamble they may be eliminated from the game before we pay it all off. If not, our money is going to the underdog. Trade Iron Working to Russia for Masonry and 20g. We have two iron sources in range, both in the south.

Both new cities are set to build warriors, but can be changed to other items if desired, on the first turn. Russia is indeed all choked up, bottled in, you name it. They WILL BE coming at some point, maybe soonish, thus the barracks. Recommend vet spear, walls, then another vet spear and by then, maybe a sword or two. If we keep Russia isolated, who knows, maybe even be able to rub them out at some point earlyish. Probably go something like this: Hotrod's round (one of these times) ends, Russians still there, Urug's turn ends, Russians gone. :lol:

I know it was harsh on TaTu to build a settler out of there with no granary, but think of that as a second free settler out of the hut. Pickins are somewhat slim, and we're packed in like sardines. Wait'll you see the way the Chinese and Americans are backed up along the shoreline just like Russia, except not cut off.

Dotmap follows. Pink and White dots are high priority. Orange and Gray are "would be nice" bold dreams. Red, Yellow and Green are luxury fishing villages. Light Blue is a mining village to fill in the interior border, but I doubt we'll get it because we won't get half these dots unless the Zulu-American war drags on and on and on.

Hey, for such a crappy looking start location, I'd say we're doing WAY WAY better than anybody could have dreamed. This is certainly no "screw you" Epic 12 map situation. :) Not even counting the free settler, which I swear to god, Urugharakh must be charmed or something. HOW DOES HE DO IT???


Bam - 2150BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-2150bc.zip)


- Sirian

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-2150bc.jpg

Originally posted by Sirian
This is certainly no "screw you" Epic 12 map situation. :) Not even counting the free settler, which I swear to god, Urugharakh must be charmed or something. HOW DOES HE DO IT?

Well, no idea about the free settlers. Fortunately I only dislike them for non expansionistic civs or in a context like the Epics, where comparsion is more important than winning a game in my opinion and the free settlers kill comparsion. But you are right, free settlers and leaders often show up in my games, while other RNG dependend events often scew me.

Our starting position is much better than Epic 12. We actually have a better starting position than all AIs on our continent. So from a screw you factor we can't compete with Epic 12. Lets see how the other restrictions will influence our game.

:hmm: What the?

Ok, I am not sure what happened either. Thanks for pressing on despite my (whatever stupid thing I did here...).

I am not surprised Russia built a wonder...I figured they had no more settlers to build....

OMGWHTTZ?!! (to coin a phrase :) ). For now, I am really liking Abe (even without the Epic 36 bias). Nice of him to cut down on the expansion of our northern rival. Thanks, buddy. :goodjob:

Russians...yeah, if Hotrod or Texan leaves Urugharakh with a small force of vet archers...bye bye Cathy. :lol: :hammer: :hammer:

I think the karma that gave us a free settler can also be blamed on Hotrod--every one of the HOT SGs I played with him, we got a free settler.

Bam-Bam
Sirian <==== JUST PLAYED
Hotrod <==== UP (10 turns from here on out)
6thGenTexan <==== ON DECK
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 hours to complete

Ok, I am not sure what happened either.

:rotfl:
:rotfl:

Don't worry about it. We'll chalk it up to sleep deprivation. And if it happens again, we'll just blame it on Hotrod. :lol:

Speaking of Hotrod, who woulda thought he'd come so far as to be beating Deity variants, when he signed up for that TDG exercise way back when. Persistance pays.


- Sirian

And if it happens again, we'll just blame it on Hotrod. :lol:

Originally posted by Hotrod
"If you look around the table and can't figure out who the sucker is you're it!" :lol:

As far as progress on the game--you and Urugharakh had already completed this concept and RBE4 before I beat my first Monarch game. I guess some of us can be taught :whipped:

As far as sleep deprivation goes--I'd wouldn't have any problems if someone didn't keep coming up with such interesting games... :p.

Got it and will play tonight !

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
As far as progress on the game--you and Urugharakh had already completed this concept and RBE4 before I beat my first Monarch game. I guess some of us can be taught :whipped:

Don't stake too much on me.

I indeed did some weird games including AWD induced by Charis a year ago. The latter caused an 8 month CIV3 burn out, which was heavily supported by Firaxis patch policy with respect to PTW. I started again with Epic 30 ending without completion because it was not comparable due to an early settler - I still have the final save, so I might even finish it out of curiosity. So my first full game since almost one year was Epic 36, which, being an Emperor game , was (only) challenging with respect to comparison. So please don't expect too much from me. I still have to get accustomed to the PTW changes.

Early: Hmm nothing to change ;). Diplo check shows Cathy up by Alphabet and Wheel but lacking Mysticism, we are 8 turns away but it can be bought for 70 gold. But we can't afford Alpha or the wheel. It is only 8 turns after all. Kazan is building a warrior but I opt for the only next reasonable thing and change without penalty to a much needed worker.



Middle: Zulus have picked up the wheel but will not part with it. Cathy still lacks Mysticism but will not even discuss trading Alphabet or the Wheel. KanKorum builds a settler and starts a warrior. Looking to get the city to a 3-5-3 cycle verses 1-3-1. China is taking an aggressive stance early and sending a stack of 3 archers and 4 warriors in our vacinity. Settler moves with a warrior escort to the Pink dot. Gambling that the Chinese are out hunting barbs or some such thing. Ta-Tu completed its backacks and starts on a spear. Aztecs completed the Oracle in 1990 BC.

Interesting Situation: 1910 BC (6): Tabriz is founded and China is about to attack and capture and undefended Kazan. With only 1 warrior in the capital I was torn as to protect our new settler or the capital. Not even sure I could've gotten to the Kazan city.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1china.JPG

1870 BC (7): OMG - What the heck is china thinking??? He passes by the empty city. We need those darn warriors, serves me right. I am being punished for swapping to a worker :lol:. No war yet. Capital builds a warrior and starts another - with good reason.

Late: Mysticism comes in and start a 40 turn run at Poly but not sure if research is even worth it at this point. 1790 BC: Vikes build the Pyramids. Capital gets another warrior and starts a settler. 1750 BC: Kazan is still standing with China swarming, builds our second worker and starts on Walls. This can be changed during preturn.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1_1750bc.JPG

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam1_1750BC.zip

Bam-Bam
Sirian
Hotrod <==== JUST PLAYED
6thGenTexan <==== UP
Urugharakh <===== ON DECK
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 hours to complete

I've got it.

6gntxn

Not much to do. I start Almarikh on walls to match Kazan.

1725BC-1 Tabriz warrior-->worker He will go home to protect the next settler.

1675BC-2 Karakorum gets scientist until warrior arrives.

1650BC-3 Ta-Tu spear-->walls MM Karakorum for $$ before settler pops. The Zulu are getting rich off our GPT payments and barb camps south of Tabriz.

1625BC-4 Karakorum settler-->spear I do not like what I see. Zulu troops are joining the Chineese around Kazan.

1600BC-5 Tabriz worker-->walls Worker will road back to Karakorum. Zulu learn alphabet.

1575BC-6 Ulaanbaatar founded on white dot. Think long and hard and decide another worker is needed first. He will be the 4th with 6 cities. The other choice was a barrack, but I need to mine the 2 BG before it would do any good. Barbs show up north onf Almarikh. Scout is forced to go NE along China's border.

1550BC-7 Russia has writing :eek: We show our contacts now. Russia gets contact with America and 57g for Alphabet. Only Catherine has writing but we cannot get it. Take 34g for China and 22 for Zulu. Abe will trade The Wheel for Alphabet and Mao will charge us an extra 27g. Get wheel for Abe and the horses are on the coast west of Ulaan, on road path between Karakorum and Tabriz. There is a third horse on the hills between Tabriz and the orange dot.

1525BC-8 Kazan walls-->spear The neighbors are heading north to the jungles between China and Zululand. All but Abe have HBR now.

IBT Catherine is trying to be nice and establishes an embassy. Zulu connect their iron.

1500BC-9 Almarikh walls-->worker. Almarikh cannot grow past 2 until the trees are chopped or a harbor is built. It looks like China and Zulu were racing to the barb camp.

1475BC-10 Ta-Tu walls-->spear Karakorum spear--> barracks I should have done those in the other order but it did not look good when the Zulu army started west. I would let Karakorum grow a little more before any more settlers. Growth in 3, barracks in 4 or settler in 6.

Our scout on the hill looking into mother Russia sees 3 Vet spears, 3 Reg spears, 3 Vet archers, 1 Reg archer and 2 Reg warriors. 90g and 3GPT will buy HBR if it is wanted. 27 turns to Poly and no science increase will speed that up. We have 6 of the 14 cities on our island. Unfortunately they are defened by 7 warriors and 2 spears. The Chineese warrior near Karakorum has been keeping the barbs under control. I did not connect our iron yet.

1475BC Have I miscounted my turns again. :crazyeye: I always get mixed up counting backwards in BC.

Game. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1_1475BC.zip)

Bam-Bam <===== ON DECK
Sirian
Hotrod
6thGenTexan <==== JUST PLAYED
Urugharakh <==== UP
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 hours to complete

Got it.

More important than buying horseback riding is the possibility of a 2fer. Buy writing from Cathy for 9pgt and 66g. Then sell it to Mao for horseback riding and 32g.

Shaka demands 21g in 1375 BC and I cave without sufficient military.

Ta-Tu grows to size 4 without luxes or even commerce. So I hire a scientist until we can train a worker. I would have switched to worker if this was allowed, but refused wasting our shields though this might have been better. I disbanded 2 of our scouts in Ta-Tu. Our 3rd scout meets barbarians without possibility of retreat.

Connected our furs. Started temples in Almankh and Kazan, the latter will be supported by a forest chop, while the former should be whipped.

Karakorum should build more settlers but should not fall back to size 2 anymore.

Played only 9 turns to rectify the count.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam1-BC1250.zip)

Bam-Bam (playing)
Sirian (on deck)
Hotrod
6thGenTexan
Urugharakh (just played)
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 hours to complete

Early

All looks good at the start. We have 6 cities, and everyone else has 2? The game did say deity, right? Cathy demands 21g on the first interturn--sure, sweatheart. She also starts the lighthouse for our future use. Start a granery in Ulaanbaatar to get increase growth.

Middle

Another setter out of the capital (only drops to size 3), heading to orange dot. China shows up with an archer spear pair. Vikings complete the Lighthouse. Zulus learn philosophy.

Late

Tabriz completes rax. China still has some troops around, so I shuffle some spears to make sure every city has at least one spear. So much for the min sci run on poly--America has it, but lacks writing. We cannot any of the technologies out there--mapmaking, philosophy, or poly. Hovd founed on orange dot.

Diplomatic front.

Russia--up MM and Code of Laws--one turn left on a 9gpt payment.
Zulu--up MM and Philosophy
America--up poly down writing
China--parity.

China might be up to something...:eek:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-china.jpg

We cannot afford any of the techs on the block, but the 9gpt we get back from Russia should allow Sirian to get some trading going. Hovd is on a temple, but it CAN be switched.

Good luck to Sirian!

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM1-1000BC.zip)

Bam-Bam (just played)
Sirian (up)
Hotrod (on deck)
6thGenTexan
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

24 hours to claim, 48 to complete

Got it.

IT 1000BC: Um, yep, those Chinese MUST be on a sneak attack maneuver, and it must be against us. There are no other "legitimate" AI objectives in that direction (they can't reach Russia, and there are no camps).

I wake some units in the south and move them northward.

975BC: Um, yep. Definitely going for our horses at Ulaan, which were guarded by a regular warrior. I fortify a spear at Ulaan and the regular China archer turns around, while the elite and spear guard keep coming. I will be doing nothing much this round except training military. Well, except for ordering another worker at TaTu, which just finished one. Spear trained in Kara, start horse. Whip temple at Kazan.

950BC: More of our troops advance. All the Chinese turn around. Heading home? Unlikely. Almarikh may be the target, and we could lose it. Start barracks at Kazan.


Middle turns: Train a horse at Kara, start archer, city size 5, swap from horse to iron hill to pull 10spt. Later train archer, start second horse. Train spear out of Tabriz, start archer. Archer from Kara kills barb warrior from new camp in the south who entered our border. Train worker at TaTu, start warrior. MM granary at Ulaan. Amarikh pulling 2spt at size 2, decide not to whip. No use, finish same time either way, save on the whip memory.


850BC: Almarikh is now in serious trouble. Reinforcements are arriving a turn and a half too late. Fortune favors the bold. I dial up Mao and tell him to get the Hell Mao-t out of our land.

Incredibly, he caves...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-850bc.jpg

...and ACTUALLY LEAVES!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-850bc-a.jpg

Our vet horse rides the road to Almarikh. Our border at Kazan has just expanded, making life for wandering Chinese more interesting. The vet spear moves along up onto the hill above Almarikh. Crisis averted for the moment. Chinese continue to march homeward. Are they actually going to call off the war?

825BC: Nope. They just decided our capital should be the target. I cannot just dump this problem onto next player. I am going to have to take action. Fortunately, I had the foresight to send a worker to our iron, which will be connected by the end of the round.

800BC: We discover Poly. Sad sack 2CC America never brokered, so I trade Poly, 3gpt and change to Shaka for Mapmaking, and sell Poly @4th to Russia for Philosophy, and ~60g. I broker maps. Ooh, Russia's gone out to sea to the west, expect Russian settlements to appear over there soon.

775BC: Not yet the right moment. China's on the road. I hold our fire. Establish embassy with Shaka for 39g. Oh not good. He can train vet swords out of Z-town every other turn. Sadly, I cannot buy him in against China, but perhaps the embassy will buy us some better relations with him. For an AI who was down to his last city the last I heard of him, he's now the top power among the enemy, thanks to his iron. (No iron or horses for China, Russia). Kazan builds barracks, starts spear.

750BC: OK, this is it. Here's the situation after I move the workers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-750bc.jpg

I cancel the peace treaty. First attack, our archer near Kazan vs the regular spear guarding the elite enemy archer in the hills, next to our iron. We lose 0-4. I follow up with horse from Kara, he wins 4-2, promotes to elite!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-750bc-a.jpg

I bring our horse out of Almarikh to attack the vet spear. He wins 4-3 (close call).

I attack the exposed vet archer in the plains with a reg war, lose 0-3. Try again with the one from Almarikh, also loses 0-3. Enemy archer promotes. Blah. Well, after that nasty streak, we're "due" for a counterbalancing blackjack odds streak. Sure enough, our regular warrior out of Kazan beats the elite archer IN THE HILLS 5-2. Net losses for us, 1 vet archer, 2 reg wars. For them, reg spear, vet spear, elite archer.


With iron connected, we can train some swords. I had set both Kara and Tabriz to do so, but changed Kara to pump out a worker before its sword. These orders are vetoable if desired. Still, we lost three units and now have three wounded. China looks weak, may already be gassed, but you never know. Could be more coming. And if either Russia or Zululand came at us now, too, we'd be in real trouble.

I took time out from a new game (GalCiv) to play my turn here.

I hope everybody appreciates the enormity of the sacrifice. :lol:

OK, here's the peek inside Z-town.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-775bc.jpg

And here's the battlefield at turn's end.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-750bc-b.jpg

May you be blessed to live in uninteresting times. :D


Ha, and to think. People snickered at the start we got, and Bam called me sick.
And yet, this is absolutely the most dominant position I've ever seen in a Deity game.
Despite our variant, I'd say at this point the game is ours to lose.


Bam - 750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1-750bc.zip)


- Sirian

Nice to see we can pull you away from a sleep-stealing new game for some old planet bound civ.

Yeah--on the start call--guess judgements should wait until more facts are known ;). This is definately uncharted deity territory for me (leading in cities? :crazyeye: ).

Bam-Bam
Sirian (just played)
Hotrod (UP)
6thGenTexan (on deck)
Urugharakh
JMB (out until October 3)

Got it! Will play today after ST5

BAM 1

750 BC (0): Cathy has CoL but will not trade not that we need it now anyway. Decide to leave all changeable cities on there respective projects. Want to upgrade some warriors but remember that is a :nono: ;). Guess they will make some really nice MPs or flip suppressors. We need to get the wounded to safety and get some swords out. China will not talk as expected.

730 BC (1): Some bothersome zulu activity. Karakorum builds a worker starts a sword. Move wounded to cities for rest and relaxation. ulaanbaatar builds a granary starts a settler.

710 BC (2): Lotta nothing.

690 BC (3): China is sending more units south. Spot 2 archers and 2 spears. Move worker away from the boarder near Almarika to work the hills for now. Elite horse is healed so take a shot at the lone archer in the desert horsey wins barely is now 1/5 but produced a great leader Ogodei. Now the question is what to go with him. Send him to the capital for now.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1leader.JPG

670 BC (4): Karakorum builds our first sword and starts another. Move units out of Kazan to head off the China forces coming our way. Have to bumb lux to 30% for 2 turns until the spear completes. The visible china force is now 4 spears, 2 warriors and an archer. Zulus now have math but will not trade. Could really use some cats about now.

650 BC (5): :eek: the china stack is now getting large. Try to get Zulus to help but we can't afford it. I am stuck as to what to do with the leader. NO wonders are available and a sword army just seems silly at this point but I will at least wait until we have 3 swords to decide.

IBNT: Kill 2 attacking warriors.

630 BC (6): Attack with an archer and die. Will have to let them come to me. Ta-Tu builds a spear starts a sword. Tabriz completes a sword starts another. Drop lux to 20%. I take a good look at all the units that china is sending. Even if I get lucky Almarikh will not hold up. I move all the units out of the city. Better to admit defeat and live to fight again. It was a tough decision but I think a correct one. Now this was pure :smoke: but decide to contact china after I move the units and this what greats me.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam1chinapeace.JPG

I accept the unconditional peace. :confused: I left a city undefend near no less than 30 units and he takes peace. I whip the temple that I forgot 2 turns before.

610 BC (7): Almarikh builds a temple starts a barracks. China has started the GL. Can i get Lit and rush the GL?? It takes MM and Philosophy but Lit is ours from China. Karakorum just built a sword and can be swapped to the Great Library. It is leader Rushed. Lit will not get us anything of value so I hold onto it. We will get Math from the library as Russia and Zulus have it.

590 BC (8): Build the Great Library start a settler. ulaanbaatat builds a settler starts another. Build our last 2 embassies.

570 BC (9): Nothing to report, math came in. Moved to blue dot.

550 BC (10): Founded Darhan on the Blue Dot. Start a warrior but can be changed.

Here is the Save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam1_550BC.zip

Bam-Bam

Before this goes any further can you post the BIX file for this game. I am almost sure it is flawed. All the other civs are 2CC. I think the ability to build settlers was taken away from the AI and all they got was there first 2. Check it out or post it and we can have a look at it.

Hotrod

Guys I could check the BIX file for you to see if there is a problem with it, so as not to spoil you if there actually is no default in it.

Quick check reveals there is a flaw. Give me a bit to confirm.

Skyfish--thanks for the offer--but the map was not included in the mod file, so no spoiler worries.

BAD NEWS :sad: folks. I fat fingered something when I was editing to make the Keshik ignore movement costs for hills. AIs cannot build settlers. :blush: :wallbash:

[pimp]:smoke:[pimp]

I have fixed the mod. :splat:

This game is a TKO. Please check in and let me know if you would like to make a REAL go at this with REAL AIs.

I can have another start up and ready as soon as I hear from folks.

Again--sorry to waste your time with a messed up game.

- Bam-Bam

Folks, I have tested the mod and generated a new start. As soon as I hear from at least three of you, I will open a new thread and start the game using the same order.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-start.jpg

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
BAD NEWS :sad: folks. I fat fingered something when I was editing to make the Keshik ignore movement costs for hills. AIs cannot build settlers. :blush: :wallbash:




It is a sad way to join, but welcome to the world of mods. I almost botched LK55 as a civ can have a default government, but not have the tech! I was lucky I found it during my turns.

Bad luck. I'll try again.

Concerning the starting position, how about you doing the first few turns anyway make sure it is bad enough in turn 20? Another option would be playing around with the scout for a few turns and then let someone else start the game in earnest.

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
BAD NEWS :sad: folks. I fat fingered something when I was editing to make the Keshik ignore movement costs for hills. AIs cannot build settlers.

Ouch! Sorry to hear that, but hopefully you learned a bit about modding in the process. And this is the very reason why I always playtest any change in the game before submitting a succession game start file. :)

And I was all ready for some ancient warfare. I'm in for the restart.

-6gntxn

Woops. Good eye on figuring out the problem, Hotrod. :)

Bam, don't worry about it. :) Probably would have been OK to go without the mod, since Keshik are already well balanced (they are cheaper than normal knights). Was a unique experience.

I have some bad news, though. I'm not in for the restart. The difference of a few days and a new game that has most of my attention, nothing to do with your arrangements.

Thanks for having me along this far. I'll check in here or there to see how the game works out. With a free settler and a leader from the first elite, better hope you haven't "used up" your allotment of good fortune for this SG. :lol:


- Sirian

I am up for another go.

Yep--good eye Hotrod.

@Sirian--no worries. I had a feeling that you would be bowing out for the redux. Unfortunately, the game you are playing does not have such good catch phrases like "MOOving on along" and the like. One of these days we may actually FINISH an SG together. :lol:

That leaves one open slot. I will start a new thread tonight or tomorrow after some more testing to check for Bam-Bam mistakes. The image posted above MAY not be the new start---we shall see.