Wiz01- My first SG (Regent) [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Gengis Khan

Sep 25, 2003, 04:25 PM

1(4000)- Move worker to game tile, *Cue the sound of trumpets* Kyoto is founded, immediate work starts on a warrior.
Unfortunately Kyoto will never be a 4 turn settler factory(until we chop down that forest that is). Because we’re gonna have a growth problem in the capitol I start on pottery at 100%, due in 12.

2-4 :sleep:

5(3800)- warrior produced, starts scouting towards the south. Start another warrior.

6- Warrior climbs a mtn & spots a really great spot for our next city. Cattle, game, bg, & river once it expands….. and that’s only the spots he can see. There’s also a nice barbarian tribe keeping the spot warm for him, gonna have to pay them a visit.

7(3700)- :sleep:

8- Worker completes roading forest, moves onto bg. The hospitable barbarians teach us bronze working.

9(3600)- Warrior produced, start on barracks. Worker starts mining BG. Warriors scout.

10(3550)- 2nd warrior heading west spots another barb tribe, and some REALLY good terrain. Mad-bax I think you might have gone overboard with “making sure we have a good start”.:lol:

11(3500)- Kyoto expands. Tribe teaches us warrior code. Bump research back, pottery due in 1.

12- Learn pottery. Judging by the fact that 5 of our opponents are Egypt(CB,Mas), Germany(WC,BW), China(WC,Mas), Babs(CB,BW), and Amer(Pot,Mas). I’m willing to bet that 1 of the remaining 3 will be commercial & hopefully want to trade for alphebet, plus with the lack of hills/mtns in our immediate are we need to know where the iron is. I start on IW at full speed ahead.

13(3400)- 2nd warrior spots another barb tribe north of our city.

14- :sleep:

15(3300)- worker finishes mine, starts on road. Tribe give us a map of their region.

16- :sleep:

17(3200)- Spot incense to the south.

18- worker finishes road, moves over & starts mining BC on river.

19- :sleep:

20- :sleep:

**End of turn report**
IW due in 14, 12g, 0gpt.
Northern warrior can be returned to Kyoto for MP duty.
Kyoto will grow next turn & lux will need to be raised to 10% until MP gets there.

Possible next city placement………………. S of the 3 dye clump(to the north) on the forest square.
1 square SW of the cattle(to the south).
1 square SW of the wheat(to the west).

Can’t draw up a dotmap though, problems with photoshop. This is pretty close to OCP, without exploiting RCP, & purely based on taking advantage of the terrain.

Although we can go with a denser build(most likely 2 squares between cities), which the more I think about it would probably be better.

Gengis Khan

Sep 25, 2003, 04:29 PM

Sabo-UP!
Evie-in the circle.
gorm-on the bench

Good luck with the huts sabo (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/WIZ1_3050BC.SAV)!

zorven

Sep 25, 2003, 04:30 PM

I have seen two different play orders. Which is correct Wizard?

gormdragan

Sep 25, 2003, 04:41 PM

I believe it's this one.

Gengis Khan
sabo10
Superevie
gormdragan
me (Wizard)
zorven

BTW, shall we include Smelling Coffee? The more the merry.

zorven

Sep 25, 2003, 04:43 PM

gormdragan - if it is that one, then Wizard needs to update his first post.

Superevie

Sep 25, 2003, 07:17 PM

Holy crap I'm almost up! I better get ready... :drinks a glassful of raw eggs and punches pieces of raw meat:

Mr. Dictator

Sep 25, 2003, 07:24 PM

eewwwww.......raw eggs

Gengis Khan

Sep 25, 2003, 07:50 PM

Calm down rocky, I'm sure you'll do fine.

Ankka

Sep 25, 2003, 11:43 PM

NIce playing, GK. WHat are you researching now, didn't you complete Pottery?

I updated the first post. that is the playing order we should be using.

Gengis Khan

Sep 26, 2003, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
12- Learn pottery. Judging by the fact that 5 of our opponents are Egypt(CB,Mas), Germany(WC,BW), China(WC,Mas), Babs(CB,BW), and Amer(Pot,Mas). I’m willing to bet that 1 of the remaining 3 will be commercial & hopefully want to trade for alphebet, plus with the lack of hills/mtns in our immediate are we need to know where the iron is. I start on IW at full speed ahead.

Doh! guess I should've put that in my EoT report.

I'd also let Kyoto grow to at least size 4 before we start pumping out settlers.

mad-bax

Sep 26, 2003, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan

Unfortunately Kyoto will never be a 4 turn settler factory(until we chop down that forest that is).

Sounds like you're having fun :D

I couldn't resist setting a little puzzle in the start postion to see if you *could* make the capital a 4 turn settler factory.

I was just having a little fun too. :)

Gengis Khan

Sep 26, 2003, 02:27 AM

:lol:

I knew there was a catch when I saw "I would be careful about the first coupla turns if I were you.;)"

As I didn't see the 2nd game I saw no reason to move the settler. Oh well, it would have taken us forever to clear those forest with Non-Ind workers anyways. Plus with the incredible land around us I don't think it'll matter much anyways.

Good to see your still lurking around & can't wait till the next time you pop up chuckling to yourself about some landscaping.;)

mad-bax

Sep 26, 2003, 02:33 AM

I edited my previous post. Too much information. Forget what I wrote and don't tell anybody else ;)

Looked at the save BTW :goodjob:

Gengis Khan

Sep 26, 2003, 02:37 AM

:rotfl:
Well it's still a puzzle for everyone else, lets see if they can figure it out..;)

Ankka

Sep 26, 2003, 07:05 AM

:confused: You two are having fun, aren't you ;) Total inside group jokes...

Ankka

Sep 26, 2003, 07:42 AM

I checked the save. Good playing. Next thing for worker to do is build road to silks ASAP, to lessen the need for MP. We should also explore& expand mostly southward, as there is only tundra to the north...

And where is our next player? I think I'll have to shout for him. SABO!Lets hope he heard... If he doesn't answer in time, it will be the next player in order to play.
From now on, it's 15 turns per player until everyboy has played.

sabo

Sep 26, 2003, 08:06 AM

I'm at work now guys and gals but I'm leaving early today so I'll get to the game in about 6 hours. I got an email from Killer, he wouldn't mind being put "in reserve" in case someone drops out, is that OK with everyone?

ps. are we playing 15 turns or 20?

Ankka

Sep 26, 2003, 08:28 AM

Yes. Smellincoffee is also in reserve. Good to know we have troops waiting if we can't go all by ourselves and need reinforcements.

Smellincoffee

Sep 26, 2003, 09:54 AM

Roger. :) I'll be downloading the saves and following along. :D

sabo

Sep 26, 2003, 04:43 PM

Taking my turn now, 15 turns right? Or 20?

Gengis Khan

Sep 26, 2003, 04:49 PM

15 turns for the first round.

sabo

Sep 26, 2003, 04:55 PM

It looks good, alot of bonus grass land and we have more silks to the North, I think after the Granery is built I'm going to build a settler and move south and put a city directly south of our Capitol by the river with that bonus grassland and cattle...

Here's what I started with http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/saboturn1.jpg

sabo

Sep 26, 2003, 05:33 PM

Turn one:
Moved Northern warrior south and southern warrior north, discovered game in the tundra, there is insense way to the south (didnt' see that before) Kyoto's pop increased by one, moved the luxury slider up one notch to stop the city from revolting.

Turn two:
Built the granery, started a settler, heading for the mountain with my southern warrior to get a better look around

Turn three:
On mountain, nothing interesting to see

Turn four:
:sleep:

Turn five:
Worker finished mine, now I'm making him build a road to silk since it's in our culture area now.

Turn Six:
warrior found wheat to the west

Turn Seven:
Settler built, started another warrior in Kyoto for Military police

Turn Eight:
Western warrior moved northwest and see's edge of blue culture limit. Maybe we found that psycho Bismark!!

Turn Nine:
:sleep:

Turn Ten:
:sleep:

Turn Eleven:
Built second city Osaka, made contact with Bismark, he didn't have any thing we needed. I asked him if he wanted to buy pottery or Ceremonial burial, he only wanted to fork up 10 Gold for it, I told him to take a hike. He told me to get out of his territory. I said Good ridence you psychotic war mongerer, I"m sure we'll meet up again REAL soon.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/bismark.jpg

Turn Twelve:
:sleep:

Turn Thirteen:
:sleep:

Turn Fourteen:
Discovered Iron working and see iron to the south and northeast. Starting to learn the Alphabet now. Hopefully since we've met a civ we can trade something for masonary later and start either building the pyramids or great library.

Turn Fifteen:
:sleep:
Here's my last turn

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/saboturn15.jpg

Ok! Your turn Evie!!!
Savegame (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/WIZ1_2390BC.SAV)

Smellincoffee

Sep 26, 2003, 06:27 PM

Just a lurker comment- in my shadow of this game, I killed the warrior-settler pair that were going to found Leipzig. :lol:

- I hate seeing AI settlers. I really, really do. ;)

Superevie

Sep 26, 2003, 07:17 PM

Hey, babies! I'm here and I play my first 15 turns. Think I did okay....

Turn 1: Built Kyoto. Started Warrior. Moved worker N1. Started Bronze working and jacked up Sci. Slider to 70%.
Turn 2: Worker stars to clear forest.
Turn 3-4: :sleep:
Turn 5: Warrior built. Another warrior started. Warrior S1.
Turn 6: Warrior S1.
Turn 7: Warrior S1.
Turn 8: Warrior SE1. Popped hut and got Mysticisim.
Turn 9: Warrior done. Starting settler. Fortified new warrior on Kyoto for now. Warrior goes S1.
Turn 10: Warrior S1.
Turn 11: Warrior on Kyoto is woken up goes NW1. Warrior S1.
Turn 12: Worker starts mine in same square that was cleared. Warrior near Kyoto to W2. Warrior S1.
Turn 13: Warrior S1. Popped hut and got a map with other warrior.
Turn 14: Warrior near Kyoto N2. E1 warrior.
Turn 15: Warrior NE1.

Any good? :D

Superevie!!!

gormdragan

Sep 26, 2003, 08:12 PM

Got it...play now...this one will finish faster than DD2.

Hmm, no save.... I'll check back later.

Gengis Khan

Sep 27, 2003, 12:05 AM

2 things evie:

#1- I would've stuck with Alphabet instead of changing to bronze.

B- A save might help also:p

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 12:55 AM

Wait a moment, SE. Where's your save? And did you play the save posted by sabo or the first save, by mad-bax...:confused:? Or is there just a mistake there...

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 02:09 AM

I checked sabos save. Good playing. :) But what on earth was SE playing, or did she just mix up with city names?

Gengis Khan

Sep 27, 2003, 03:24 AM

:rotfl:
She started off with MB's save from 4000bc. I was in a hurry earlier so I just posted about the save, & didn't even look at her post too much. Too funny!!

gormdragan

Sep 27, 2003, 03:39 AM

Let's wait for supersevie to clarify. The weekend is here, so I can play anytime the game is available so no rush.

Gengis Khan

Sep 27, 2003, 03:43 AM

That might be a problem. Check out Members Pictures V in OT. Superevie caught a 7 day ban for spamming. I didn't see that coming or anything.:rolleyes: :(

sabo

Sep 27, 2003, 05:56 AM

Ok so what do we do if a person get busted for spamming? I think they can get on this board they just can't post (evie, nod once if you can hear me) ;) also evie, click on my link for "savegame" on my last post, that's the correct turn to start at.

Maybe she can email her progress to Gengis and he can post it?? Sound good??

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 10:16 AM

Yeah. Maybe she got mixed up with that other SG she is playing withm-b, cause there they both play the same turns, in their own way... Ooh, never heard literally of someone getting banned... I'll check that thread...

Smellincoffee

Sep 27, 2003, 10:23 AM

Here's my theory: maybe she thinks everyone is supposed to play the first fifteen turns and then talk about it? Like a QSC?

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 10:36 AM

Thats what they're doing with mad- bax. However, we will have to wait at least a week for an answer... She couldn't stop herself from spamming there, everybody was warned at least a dozen times, and they still went on and on... She wasn't the only one...

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 10:45 AM

So, as SE is out, the next player should play the save. So:

gormdragan- it's your turn
zorven- get ready
Wizard- on the bench

gormdragan

Sep 27, 2003, 10:47 AM

got it

gormdragan

Sep 27, 2003, 11:41 AM

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/WIZ1_1830BC.SAV)

Preturn:
Traded Pottery for 1slave+10gp

2390:
Osaka makes war, starts gran

2350:
Kyoto makes settler, starts rax (We will probably squeeze units btw settlers, vet units would be nice)

2310:

2270:

2230:

2190:
Tokyo founded, starts war

Popped a Mansonry
Osaka change gran to temple ( to keep pop happy while Osaka builds pyramid)

Popped Mysticism

2150:

2110:

2070:
Kyoto makes rax, starts war

Potential trade, IW for HBR (I'm meeting 2nd civ in the next turn so I'll wait 1 turn)

2030:
Zulu has Alpha, 10gp, will trade Apha+10gp for Wheel. (We will get Aplha in 2 turns, I decide not to)

1990:
Kyoto makes war, starts settler
Tokyo makes war, starts worker

1950:
Alpha finish, starts Writing
Kyoto changes settler to war, to time settler production

1910:
Kyoto makes war, starts settler

1870:

1830:
Osaka makes temple starts Pyramids
Trade Alpha+Mysticism for HBR (Zulu has the 2 techs anyway, we may lose a free HBR)

We may be the only 3 civ on this island. Beeline MM for kamikazi galleys.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Wiz.jpg

A possible dotmap, please discuss.

zorven

Sep 27, 2003, 11:49 AM

Got it. Probably won't be able to post until Monday.

Do you want the Pyramids or are you pre-building for something else. I normally wouldn't consider building any wonders at this point.

Ankka

Sep 27, 2003, 12:49 PM

Good playing. :) Those dots are good, although the one SE from Osaka should be changed to be by the sea...

I remembered one thing we haven't discussed: Are we heading for a certain victory or are we just playing and having fun...

The next city should IMHO be built either on the spot between Osaka and Tokyo or The one N between Kyoto and Tokyo. You guys are awesome players:thumbsup:... I'll just try to be even nearly as good as you...

gormdragan

Sep 27, 2003, 01:50 PM

@Wizard

I picked SE city where it is as we can immediately make use of the BG. The lost of habor city is not significant (we are far from MM) and we can compensate by squeezing another habor city on the east between Osaka and Kyoto. My 2 cents.

sabo

Sep 27, 2003, 02:17 PM

I PM'd evie, I think you can still use PM if you get axed from CFC.

mad-bax

Sep 27, 2003, 03:03 PM

It does look as if the format I chose for the TDG has confused her (Evie). I apologise for that. I have PM'd her and tried to explain the difference.

LKendter

Sep 27, 2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by sabo10
I PM'd evie, I think you can still use PM if you get axed from CFC.

That is correct - you still can PM.

Superevie

Sep 27, 2003, 03:56 PM

Mmmm, yes people PMed Evie... Wait! I'm her! And I'm posting!! Bwahhaa! I'm back! So, I guess I'll take the game from the last save or something? I got confused from the TDG game. :blush:

mad-bax

Sep 27, 2003, 04:16 PM

Chill out Evie. Wizard will slot you back in the rotation and let you know when you are up. You need to wait your turn, but it won't be long.

Superevie

Sep 27, 2003, 04:18 PM

Okay, I'll sit quietly and wait my turn. :) I can't wait!

gormdragan

Sep 27, 2003, 04:22 PM

Welcome back.

Superevie

Sep 27, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by gormdragan
Welcome back.

Thanks! I'm glad to be back! Nice set of turns, BTW. I like the pottery and slave trade. VERY useful. :)

Gengis Khan

Sep 27, 2003, 06:19 PM

Good to see you're back, looks like I wasn't in time to keep you from getting skipped.:( I'm sure wizard won't mind dropping you into the next spot since you got skipped. I guess we'll just have to see.

Superevie

Sep 27, 2003, 06:26 PM

Lemme know. I don't want to play the next set and someone else did the same. Again. :blush:

Ankka

Sep 28, 2003, 01:40 AM

Were you only banned from OT? Good to have you back, anyway. :)

I think you can play the next part of turns, after zorven.

Anybody realised that Aztec border in the save gorm posted? It should be checked.

Superevie

Sep 28, 2003, 07:17 PM

Come on Zorven! You're up! :D What does a girl have to do to get a set of turns around here? :lol: (don't answer that)

Ankka

Sep 29, 2003, 06:34 AM

Zorven should be posting the save today. If he doesn't, we'll see if SE should play the save gorm posted...

sabo

Sep 29, 2003, 08:22 AM

Yeah zorven said he'll take his turn today (monday) He must only be able to play while he's at work ;)

zorven

Sep 29, 2003, 10:05 AM

sabo10 - you're right. I have my own business and took my computer from home to use here. Anyway, I will start playing in a few minutes.

zorven

Sep 29, 2003, 12:10 PM

Ok...done. It was harder than I thought to just pick up in the middle of a game and trying to do everything perfect so as not to dissapoint you teammates. Anyway, let me know of my dopy moves.

Preturn:
Change Osaka from Pyramids to Settler. We are losing 1 gpt at 80% Science and we only have a treasuary of 5. Reduced Science to 70% for +1 gpt - adds 3 turns to Writing, now due in 18.

IBT:
Tokyo: Worker --> Temple

1790 BC:
Tokyo worker NW to assist in building mine.

1750 BC:

IBT:
Kyoto: Settler --> Warrior

1725 BC:
Send Kyoto Settler to site between Tokyo and Osaka. Warrior defeats barb camp NW of Leipzig in the Tundra for 25 gold.

IBT:
Zulu wants are Warrior out of their territory - ok.

1700 BC:

IBT:
Kyoto: Warrior --> Warrior
I see a Settler/Jag Warrior pair across the bay from Ulundi.

1675 BC:
The Aztecs are a backward people. They have only 2 cities and no techs that we don't and only 10 gold.

IBT:
The Aztec pair settled. Germany now has a city NW of Tokyo.

1650 BC:
Move workers at Tokyo to hook up horses.

IBT:
Kyoto: Warrior --> Spearman

1625 BC:

IBT:
Osaka: Settler --> Settler

1600 BC:
Edo founded - starts Temple.

1575 BC:

IBT:
Barbs show up N of Kyoto and S of Osaka. Kyoto: Spearman --> Spearman. Irrigation of Cow at Osaka completes.

1550 BC:
Kill one Barb, one on deck.

IBT:
Zulu are building the Oracle. (Germany is building this too, but not sure if they started during my turns)

1525 BC:
Changed Science to 100% to get save 2 turns, income goes from +1 to -3 per turn.

1500 BC:
Kill barb.

IBT:
Kyoto: Spearman --> Settler. Zulu's found Holbane 2 tiles from where I was sending our settler.

1475 BC:
Drop Science to 70% to still get Writing in 1, income at +1. Founded Satsuma where our settler stood.

IBT:
Discover Writing, set Science to 80% for Map Making in 20 turns. Income +1.

1450 BC:
Workers at Tokyo begin road to Edo. Worker at Osaka begins road to Satsuma.

IBT:
Osaka: Settler --> Barraks. Tokyo: Temple --> Worker.

1425 BC:
I decide to end it here. We have a Settler/Spearman pair in Osaka and will let the next in line decide where to send them. I forgot to change the laborer in Satsuma to a forest to speed up the Temple. The screenshot includes the city sites I was thinking about. The 2 in the SE would get us a coastal city and either incense or iron within the city range.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/WIZ1_1425BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1-1425bc.jpg

gormdragan

Sep 29, 2003, 12:30 PM

We are not aimming for any wonders? Osaka was made for wonder prebuild.

Superevie

Sep 29, 2003, 01:35 PM

If we kept prebuilding the pyramids, we could have switch to the GL if we decided to. :( Oh well. I guess I'm next then. I'll try to play tonight, K?

Ankka

Sep 29, 2003, 01:37 PM

Yeah, wonders should be built, at least GL, IMHO. Osaka should propably change from rax to Pyramids or Oracle.

It's SE's turn.

Good playing, zorven. :)

If we build on the more southern city site, we could also keep the Zulus away from the Iron site + we would get incense. I suggest that spot.

From now on, maybe we should play only 10 turns/ DP. What do you think? Is it a too short period? What is the turns/ DP used in Sgs usually?

zorven

Sep 29, 2003, 01:45 PM

I think 10 turns per player is normal. Also, If we want GL, then we should switch our research from Map Making and start the pre-build, but that is up to the next player ;)

Also, just to let you know what I was doing, I was setting up Kyoto to produce settlers, Osaka to build military, and Tokyo to build a few workers.

Superevie

Sep 29, 2003, 01:47 PM

Sorry to be a bother, but are we doing 10 or 15 turns? I don't want to eat into someone else's playing time. :)

gormdragan

Sep 29, 2003, 02:03 PM

10 turns is a good pace. We should prebuild GL while researching MM. MM is higher priority. Without additional contact, GL wouldn't do us any good.

Also, we should settle the southern iron city as we could use the iron. Try to build war instead of spears so that one of us could pick a fight once the iron is online. Do not road the iron unless we have at least 6-10 wars to upgrade. Cheaper to build wars than swords. My 2 cents.

sabo

Sep 29, 2003, 02:32 PM

Yeah that's why I thought I built Osaka, for a wonders prebuild. I thought we could go for pyramids or GL although it sounds like we're ahead in techs so the GL won't do much, but if we build it we could at least turn our science to zero until education and get some $$$$ :)

Padma

Sep 29, 2003, 03:17 PM

Just to chime in: the number of turns per designated player is completely up to the team playing the game. Normally it is set between 10 - 20. The defacto standard seems to have settled at 10. In the later stages of the game, it is not uncommon to shorten it even more, as there is sometimes *too much* to do to be able to play 10 turns in a reasonable time. ;)

Superevie

Sep 29, 2003, 05:00 PM

Zorven didn't post a save. :( I can't start without it.

edit: sorry, I'm a . I found it. Ugh..

Superevie

Sep 29, 2003, 06:01 PM

Here's my (correct) turnlog. I hope it is up to snuff for you guys, but I can't promise much. :blush: :

1425 BC: Warrior in mountain W1. Moved settler in Osaka to hill E of incense. Moved spearman to same spot. Moved warrior in mountain W of Hlobane, S1. Moved warrior at hill N1. Barb sneak attacked, we killed it.

1400 BC: N1 to attack barb camp. Killed barb, got promoted to Elite, and got 25 gold. [dance] Warrior near Germany goes NW1. Worker team S1. Warrior by Hlobane SE1.

1375 BC: Kyoto builds settler. Start another one. Kyoto settler goes to warrior on iron N. Worker team starts road. Fortified warrior on iron. Worker SW1. Warrior by Hlobane S1, by accident. Meant to go SE1, but my hand slipped. Reloading is illegal, so I couldn’t. :(

1350 BC: Worker build road. Warrior near Bapedi E1. Warrior by Kong. goes NW1.

1325 BC: Tokyo makes worker starting pre-build of Pyramids. Worker goes to wheat. Worker team goes S1. Warrior by Konig. NW1. Warrior near Zululand goes S.

1300 BC: Worker team starts road. Worker on wheat NE1. Warrior near Germany E1. Fortified Spearman. Warrior near Zululand S1. Germany demanded writing. I told them no, and they declared war!! :mad: :cry: Warrior killed oncoming barb by Germany. Barracks done in Osaka, starting archer. Temple in Edo done starting warrior.

1275 BC: Cut back science to 60% because we were losing 2 gold per turn. We need that money for armies. Worker by river irrigates. Established embassy with Zulu. I tried to get them into and MA, but nothing doing. :( Worker by Osaka S1. Built Kagoshima. Starting warrior. Warrior near Kong. S1. Warrior by Bapedi N1.

1250 BC: Settler in Kyoto done, starting warrior. Settler to southern coastal plain by iron. Warrior enters Kong. Woker by Satusuma builds road. Warrior by Bapedi N1.

1225 BC: Warrior NW1. Worker to build road. Fortify warrior in Kong.

1200 BC: Kyoto makes warrior, starts archer. Warrior to w, Kong. Warrior by Bapedi, NW1. Built Nara. Starting swordsman.

Ankka

Sep 30, 2003, 06:37 AM

Good. :) I'll check the save, more comments later. Is it already my turn? Oh boy, oh boy... So no more comments, only a terrible players turn log...

Ankka

Sep 30, 2003, 08:11 AM

So, here's my timeline:

1200BC: Switched Osaka Archer to Oracle. Switched Tokyo Pyr to Archer. Hmm... SE, why did you build Nara where you built it? Just asking, no offence...

IBT: A German Archer appears near our war near Konigsberg. Edo builds war, begins another war, 5 turns.

1175BC:Moved war in Edo toward Tokyo. Killed German archer near Konigsberg. Worker pair near Edo SE to build road to Satsuma. Worker near Satsuma E to build road to Kagoshima, new city and Incense. Warrior near the Zulu town Bapedi moves southward to explore new areas yet unknown to our magnificent civ.

IBT: Our reg but brave war is killed near Konigsberg by a German war. :( Tokyo finishes archer, begins war.

1150BC: Worker starts irrigating wheat N of Tokyo. Our mighty army, which consists of two wars and a arch, moves toward the German border. Settler moves automatically towards settling spot. War on a mountain W of Edo moves also toward German border to scout for German attack troops.

IBT: Nothing.

1125BC: Our mighty army is reinforced with a war from Tokyo. It is not needed for MP there. Planning military assault on Konigsberg: if we get it, we'll get also ivory, and the city spot isn't that bad either. Check Aztec trades: They know the Babylonians, but they'd only trade for Writing. I refuse. Trade RoP with Zulu for 14gp+ Contact with the Babs. Lets hope they don't RoP-rape us... We are a little ahead of the Babylonians, they don't have Wri.

IBT: Kyoto builds Archer, starts settler. Edo war, war.

1100BC: Our assault troops approach Konigsberg. They have a spear waiting for us. Arch from Kyoto moves NW. Setler reaches city site. Science up a notch to 70 %. Breaking even.

IBT: A German war from Konigsberg attacks our war. We win, and our war becomes a veteran. :)
1075BC: Our arch attacks the spear in Konigsberg. We win! But there is another one aiting for us... Attack with anotehr war, but we lose. The spear is now only 2/3 energy. I build Nagoya.

IBT: Our war scouting near the german SE border is attacked by a german vet war, but we win. However, another war nears our war. Tokyo builds war.

1050BC: The Germans would make peace, and they would pay 36 gp for it. They have Poly, but refuse to trade it. I refuse. I attack Konigsberg with our arch and war, but we lose. :( However, we have a reinforcements force coming up. (arch & 2 wars)

IBT: Edo builds war, starts rax. Kagoshima builds war, war. Our war near he Germen border is again attacked. Again, we win.

1025BC: War from Edo moves toward Tokyo. War from Kago goes towards Nagoya. War belonging to new attack force moves W and discovers a German Archer.Arch and war move NW.

IBT: German arch attacks our war, we lose but arch is also down to 1 hitpoint.

1000BC: Our archer attacks it, and we win, arch is appointed elite status! :) Our war at the German border plunges deeper into the German area.

IBT: Kyoto builds settler, starts war. Satsuma builds Temple, start war.

975BC:We research MM, start Lit, due to 14 turns. Attack force moves to Konigsberg. Next DP may decide what to do with the settler in Kyoto.

Save will be in next post, if this browser doesn't make attachments.

zorven

Sep 30, 2003, 10:34 AM

I just wanted to give you my perspective on some city placements. Maybe I have a point, maybe I don't.

Nagoya: I would have put the city one tile north (blue X), this would allow me to have 2 plains and a bonus grassland (black squares), all on a river, within the city radius instead of sea tiles.

edit: oops, the blue X spot would not get you that bonus grassland, but it is still a better spot. Where that warrior is standing would also be a good spot.

Kagoshima: I would have moved at least as far west as the red X. The current city radius (pink squares) are almost all desert and hills. Moving to the red X would give you much better terrain, be on a river, and we would still get the incense within the city radius.

Nara: I would have settled on the red X. This would give you the game resource, 2 grasslands, still have the iron in the city radius, and be on a river. Putting the city on Iron will keep you from ever being able to improve the hill & iron with a mine, thus you have lost the potential shield production. A tundra has a base production of 1/0/1, so by putting a city on it you have already improved the production to 2/1/1.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1-city.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1-city2.jpg

gormdragan

Sep 30, 2003, 10:48 AM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1-city.JPG

Your proposed blue city misses the BG. To be frank, I fail to see the significance of building by the sea. I think a better spot is the blue square if we want to link up iron sooner, or blue circle if we want to grow faster (can use BG immediately). I think settling at blue square would give us the BG for free. So where the war stands would be my choice too.

The pink city should stay where it is, it's sole purpose is to allow us to hook up the incense immediately. Being by the sea, it will be a fishing village with hills to compliment the shield production, so I wouldn't say it's a bad choice, though not one I would pick.

If we decide to give up pink city, a good choice would be red square to keep our incense in the border, or red circle for improvement square sharing. Also if we move one square SW of your proposed red city, we can get the cow into our city influence zone.

With regards to Nara, where it stands is a bad choice, forces Nara to build swords it can't afford to + it's away from the river (not that is going to matter too much, Nara wouldn't grow to 6 without becoming a fishing village). I would also veto your choice as the game + 2 grassland will only come into play when our border extends, so we can't count on them. I would settle a square west of your proposed site, to make use of the grassland immediately.

I think it is important not to depend on your extended borders as it may be a long time before the border expands.

The priority of the next settler should go to the harbor city NE of Kyoto below the game we need a good harbor city soon. Being adjacent to Kyoto, corruption is minimal and galley can be produced in numbers to contact others.

My 2 cents.

zorven

Sep 30, 2003, 11:25 AM

gormdragan - you make some good points. Our main difference is that I look at the city with all 21 squares, while you don't count on those when placing the city. Anyway, we now have 4 cents ;)

gormdragan

Sep 30, 2003, 11:28 AM

@ Zorven

I think it's bec I'm paranoic. In general, there is no harm looking at all 21 squares, except resources and luxuries....we want to be sure we have them.

zorven

Sep 30, 2003, 11:59 AM

I guess I just assume I am going to be building a temple or library off the bat so I assume those 21 will be there - unless the city is close to an AI city, then I plan more like you do.

sabo

Sep 30, 2003, 08:54 PM

I think Zorven is correct about Nara though, the city center should be the worst tile, you always get the same food, sheild, commerce per city square no matter where you build it. By placing it on a non-tundra square we lose one non-tundra sqaure to irrigate or mine and have one more tundra square that we can only plant forests on.

Ankka

Oct 01, 2003, 08:26 AM

There is one difference. If its by a river, IIRC you get extra commerce.

Yeah, Kagoshima wouldn't have been the place I would have placed the city. Oops, I seem to have totally messed up with Nagoya. I don't know how I got it so...:( I thought I counted carefully soo it wouldn't overlap with Osaka. I seem to have made a mistake...:wallbash:

Anyway,

Gengis lost his turn. He should have responded in 24 hours from my last post.
sabo- it's your turn!
Evie- get ready

Gengis Khan

Oct 01, 2003, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by sabo10
I think Zorven is correct about Nara though, the city center should be the worst tile, you always get the same food, sheild, commerce per city square no matter where you build it.

Actually thats not true, you get the food/shield/commerce from the tile itself but the minimum for each is 1 IIFC.

Ex. BG- 2f,1s,0g becomes 2f,1s,1g.
desert- 0f,1s,0g becomes 1,1,1.

And yes I agree the city should be placed in the worst available terrian, but terrain spot isn't as important as city placement & surrounding area.

Got it, although I'm up in like 5 SGs so it will likely be tonight before I can play.

Superevie

Oct 01, 2003, 08:53 AM

I didn't know any of this stuff. :blush: Sorry if I let you down... :cry:

Padma

Oct 01, 2003, 09:07 AM

I don't recall about shields and gold, but a City tile always produces exactly the amount of food required for one citizen. (It was originally hardcoded to 2, but a patch changed it so mod-makers could vary the amount of food needed per citizen.)

Gengis Khan

Oct 01, 2003, 09:15 AM

Let us down?? Never!

If everyone knew everything this site wouldn't exist, that and I'd be alot better at this game.;)

Superevie

Oct 01, 2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
Let us down?? Never!

If everyone knew everything this site wouldn't exist, that and I'd be alot better at this game.;)

Oh goody! :) Well, I learned something new, which is the point of the SG. Who's next anyway? Are you?

gormdragan

Oct 01, 2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Wizard
I thought I counted carefully soo it wouldn't overlap with Osaka.

I think border overlays are no big deal, it is more important to get the right terrains than overlaying.

sabo

Oct 01, 2003, 10:39 AM

Ok, I've been educated :) I'll play my turn when I get home tonight, is it 10 turns now and NOT 15? How many turns boys and girl?

Ankka

Oct 01, 2003, 11:25 AM

I'm not sure if Gengis is anyway playing this one. He has until tomorrow to play& post the save...

We are playing 10 turns each. For now.

We must capture a few German cities, so we can make huge peace bargains.

sabo

Oct 01, 2003, 11:46 AM

Ok let me know when I'm up

Ankka

Oct 01, 2003, 11:55 AM

After Gengis ;)

That should be tomorrow this time.

Gengis Khan

Oct 01, 2003, 11:40 PM

I was about to say! 24hrs & 11mins is pretty close;)

Don't sweat the :smoke:, consider it just compensating for the AIs crappy city placement & poor worker talk management.

:D 10 turns of war?! I love it!!

Will be playing & posting shortly, the forum downtime threw me for a loop.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 03:17 AM

So much for my 10 turns of war, more like 2 turns.:rolleyes:

Flight-check- Military Report: 1 settler, 3 workers, 11 warriors, 1 archer, & 2 spears. I have to ask WHY?? We need workers & we need them yesterday. This is IMHO the worst(& most common) mistake new players make, it’s better to have to many workers then to few. We need to get a road to Nara ASAP so we can make swords in our productive cities.

Germany is up Polytheism, we’re up Map Making.
We’re up MM on babs.
Zulu up Poly. We also have a Right of Passage with Shaka, I gotta disagree with this too. For me at least wars in the Ancient Age are spontaneous & this forces us to be peaceful to them for at least 14 turns. I hope I don’t come across as too much of a warmonger.;)
We’re up MM on Aztecs.

Workers roading a non-used tile when we only have 3? While this will improve our military deployment speed, we need terrain improvement much more. I tell them to stop & move em elsewhere.

Move settler & hit enter.

IT- 2 German archers approach our warrior on a hill near Berlin.
Tokyo: warrior>worker

1- Vet warrior dies attacking elite spear guarding Kongisberg, but knocks it back to 3hp.
Elite archer kills spear, -2hp. We destroy Kongisberg & gain 5g & more importantly a slave.
Reg warrior makes a beeline for the goody hut to the north of ex-Kongisberg.
Warrior on hill is gonna lead the archers back to our troops so we can kill them easily & not worry about them attacking our cities.
Change Kogoshima to worker(from warrior), move the extra warrior around that area to guard it, & take the spear from there to put on the front line.
Germans now offering Poly, WM, & 7g for peace. Good, but not good enough. I want all their gold, call me greedy.

IT- Kyoto: warrior>worker

2- Reg warrior kills archer, -1hp.
Now Biz offers me what I wanted to hear Poly, WM, & 66g. I accept. To bad we have a RoP with Shaka cause I’d go after him right now. :lol:
Looks like my turns will be concentrating on infrastructure.
Buy a bab worker for 26g.

IT- Tokyo: worker>worker
Edo: barracks>worker

3- With our new world map the Aztecs are holed up in a jungle, the babs are on the southern-most part of the island with some pretty good land.
Change Nara from Sword to temple(due at same time). Change Nagoya from warrior to gally(to suicide looking for contacts).

IT- Kyoto: worker>settler

4- Pop goody hut N of ex-Kongisburg and soon to be our new city, netting us philosophy.[dance] With our new found knowledge we’re up at least Phil on everyone.
Not much else, get troops where I want them. Workers working.

IT- Tokyo: worker>settler
Satsume: warrior>worker

5- Found Izumo, which starts on temple(to get cow, ivory, more BG, & make sure zulu or Germans don’t settler near it.

IT- Zulu want to trade WMs. HAHA!! Our map is very valuable right now, we’re the only civ with a map of the whole continent. Its worth at least 57g(the most any civ has).
Edo: worker>horse
Aztecs building Oracle.

6- :sleep:

IT- Nara: temple>galley

7- Zzz (I have to many sleep icons. HA!)

IT- Kagoshima: worker>galley

8- :sleep: I’m feeling kinda ripped off here;)

IT- nada

9- We’re at parity with Shaka with 5 turns left on our RoP.
Biz down MM & Phil.
Monty down MM, Phil, & Poly, with 67g. I gift him 13g to get him to polite, then sell him poly for 80g & WM.
Hammi down MM, Phil, & Poly, with 29g. I gift him 31g to get him to polite as well, then sell him poly for 60g & WM.
Normally I wouldn’t throw away a tech like that but hopefully they’ll both research Monarchy next so we don’t have to buy it at monopoly price, plus we need a surplus of gold to upgrade some warriors to swords in about 5 turns when our iron comes online.

IT- Kyoto: settler>horse
Satsuma: worker>worker

10- Zzzzzzzzz

*End o’ Turn Report*

*Lit due in 5, 172g with 0gpt.
*We’re up Phil & MM on everyone but Shaka.
*Military Report- 1 settler, 9 workers, 13 warriors, 1 archer, & 2 spears.
*Oracle(GL prebuild) due in 21, IF we get a GL in the coming war with Shaka change Oracle to Pyramids, & rush GL in Kyoto from scratch.
*Speaking of Shaka: we have 4 turns of Rop left & our military is strong compared to him.:confused: Didn’t see that one coming. Our excess MUs are stationed in Edo & Satsuma ready to upgrade. Granted it’s not a lot, but once upgraded & if used intelligently, they will be enough to capture Isawanda. Then raze Hiobane(poorly placed city compared to our layout) & Bipedi(don’t want it CFing back).
*After we knock Shaka down to 2 cities we can make peace for all his money & concentrate on infrastructure & settleing for a couple turns then do the same to Biz again. Rinse & repeat until they’re both wiped out & the whole northern half of the continent is ours.:D
*We’re up Phil & MM on everyone but Shaka.
*I know everyone loves to build barracks & toops, but PLEASE for my sake mix in some workers & settlers.

*Our settler is on the way to where our southern-most warrior is standing, you should fort him there to wait for the settler. Next settler/warrior(or better yet spear) pair should head for the regular grassland in the middle of all the incense below that. We have to make sure we get that incense for now, then we can fill out our land.

The bottom half of my report is what I’d do, its up to you how you play it.

Good luck with the RNG gods!

SAVE! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_730bc.SAV)

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
*Our settler is on the way to where our southern-most warrior is standing, you should fort him there to wait for the settler. Next settler/warrior(or better yet spear) pair should head for the regular grassland in the middle of all the incense below that. We have to make sure we get that incense for now, then we can fill out our land

SAVE! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_730bc.SAV)

Ok I haven't looked at it yet but before I start let me ask you guys this, if we have lit in 5 I will usually turn science to zero when I get it and go for the GL (are we prebuilding anywhere?) what does everyone think of that? I'll play after work tonight.

mad-bax

Oct 02, 2003, 05:13 AM

A tactic I like to use with the GL is to carry on researching straight to Military Tradition fairly quickly. You wouldn't research Republic or Monarchy. The AI will research these, and so you get a good head start.

Since you are the Japanese that means that you will get your UU later then you would if you research Chivalry yourself, which is a downside of course. So when you get Feudalism and Monotheism from the GL you could take a detour to Chivalry. I would certainly aim to make as much use of the Samurai as possible. When your GA is triggered it will help you get to MT even faster.

Turning off research completely to save money for upgrades is a well worn and perfectly acceptable tactic of course. How many horsemen do you have to upgrade at the moment?

Just my thoughts :)

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 05:14 AM

Not a single one.:lol:

mad-bax

Oct 02, 2003, 05:20 AM

Nuff said. ;)

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by sabo10

Ok I haven't looked at it yet but before I start let me ask you guys this, if we have lit in 5 I will usually turn science to zero when I get it and go for the GL (are we prebuilding anywhere?) what does everyone think of that? I'll play after work tonight.

We're prebuilding in Tokyo(IIRC), building the Oracle which should be switched to the GL when we get Lit. The only way the Library shouldn't be in Tokyo is if we get a leader from the fight with Shaka, then we can rush the GL from scratch in Kyoto & turn the Oracle into the Pyramids.

When playing a civ that has a chivalry based UU, normally I do as Mad-bax suggested & research up to chivalry as fast as possible(even running a deficit). Then turn my research back to 0 & reap the rewards of the GL while still having my UU before the AI has a defender even remotly close.

In this situation though(with no horses already), I think once we get Lit we should turn off research completly. It costs 80g to upgrade each horse to a samurai, so by the time the AI researches Chivalry we'll hopefully have 10 horses built & at least 800g in the bank.

However, if we do that & the AI somehow cascades & beats us to the GL we'll have some problems. We'll still have enough money saved up to trade to catch up in techs, but all our upgrade money will be shot.

The choice is yours.

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 06:39 AM

Ok I didn't know how many we had to upgrade cuz I haven't looked at it yet, I'll play my 10 when I get home tonight :)

Ankka

Oct 02, 2003, 06:56 AM

Wow, you are playing greatly! :thumbsup: You may disband Nagoya and build it on a better spto, if you wish...

I traded RoP with Shaka, cause we got contact with the Babs and 14 gp for it, and actually, would you have had even a decent force ready for the war before the end of the RoP? Not at least after my *badly* played turns.
I know I'm not so good. This is my first real attempt on Regent. I hope to learn a lot in this game from you guys.

But that was really good playing. :) It's nice to have a good player playing after me, so you can fix my mistakes. :)

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 08:44 AM

That was incredible Gengis! :goodjob: I enjoyed that set of turns very much. I don't know much about war, so this was a real education. So, when are we going after the Zulus? Why do we have RoP with them? I don't think I did that.... Seems kind of silly unless you have some sort of formal alliance so that they could help on some defense work. :) Good show!

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
So much for my 10 turns of war, more like 2 turns.:rolleyes:

Flight-check- Military Report: 1 settler, 3 workers, 11 warriors, 1 archer, & 2 spears. I have to ask WHY?? We need workers & we need them yesterday. This is IMHO the worst(& most common) mistake new players make, it’s better to have to many workers then to few. We need to get a road to Nara ASAP so we can make swords in our productive cities.

SAVE! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_730bc.SAV)

OMG, other than the worker we start with, + the slave I bought + the worker I order in tokyo, there has been no production of workers??? Good job in spotting the mistake. Yes. we needed them yesterday. :D

I think a better decision will be to hook the iron in Nagoya as we have more cities in the south. Nara is a dead to-be-forgotten city.

Also, in view of the small island we are on, I would wipe out germans and zulu with swords and not wait for sams.

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan

*I know everyone loves to build barracks & toops, but PLEASE for my sake mix in some workers & settlers.

Usually I build troops when I in peace and infrastructure and work/settlers when I at war that I started, because if you don't have enough troops, then you probably shouldn't have started it.

My 2 cents.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Wizard
You may disband Nagoya and build it on a better spto, if you wish...

I traded RoP with Shaka, cause we got contact with the Babs and 14 gp for it, and actually, would you have had even a decent force ready for the war before the end of the RoP? Not at least after my *badly* played turns.

I wouldn't sweat the couple cities that are out of place. IMHO they won't hurt us that much & it would be more trouble then its worth. After all look at all that lovely land to the west.:lol:

Sorry, I didn't notice that it your write up. Ignore my :smoke coments then, I would have made the same trade. And No I wouldn't have had the troops to do a full scale invasion, but I think I would have had enough to get at least a city. Who knows, it all depends on whether the RNG gods shined or rained on me.

And I definatly wouldn't call them a bad set of turns Wizard. Anybody that leaves me at war with troops surrounding my enemies first city gets a giant :goodjob: in my book!;)

I'm also sure sabo will find a mistake I made though.:p

Thanks for the compliments!

ps- and don't try to skip me again or I'll have to :hammer: ya!:lol:

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by gormdragan

OMG, other than the worker we start with, + the slave I bought + the worker I order in tokyo, there has been no production of workers??? Good job in spotting the mistake. Yes. we needed them yesterday. :D

I think a better decision will be to hook the iron in Nagoya as we have more cities in the south. Nara is a dead to-be-forgotten city.

Actually I wasn't counting the slave, so 1 other worker got produced. We're looking alot better with workers, but we could use 2x what we have now, with all the expansion that will be taking place in the next 20 turns or so.

And I'm one step ahead of you, I write up my report as I go so I spotted that iron source a turn or so later. The Nagoya iron will be online in 5 turns, I have 2 workers roading the tile next to it right now.

[edit] I agree with you about the Sams as well, the zulu & Germans will be wiped out before we have the money for a mass upgrade. Although we can hit them in stages, back & forth to keep extorting money from them. Just don't break the 20 turns of peace.

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 09:12 AM

Just a thought...since GL wouldn't be due in 5, why are we researching at 0gpt? An alternative is to lower the research rate and use the $$$ to upgrade swords. We can probably wreck havoc with 15 swords.

Ankka

Oct 02, 2003, 09:20 AM

Oh... That makes sense. Good idea. I'm a real newbie to egent and good strategy, I mostly play an good game on Warlord, you don't need so much planning there...

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 09:24 AM

:lol: I knew someone would call me on that :smoke:. I actually thought about that on turn 9 but at that point it was too late to turn back.

I was gung ho about getting Lit & forgot about the rest I guess. We can bump research back to 20% getting us Lit in 17, 11gpt, with the Oracle due in 21.

Just make sure if the Oracle overlaps Lit(due to growth in Osaka) we bump up research to get Lit before the Oracle is produced. Also if the AI completes the Oracle(which will happen before its built), that THAT turn it gets changed to the palace(otherwise the governer will do something stupid like build a sword).

Next thing we need to discuss if Forbiden Palace placement. Any thoughts or ideas??

[edit] And it wouldn't take even 15 swords, if we upgraded 5 or so, with our archers & a spear or two for defense we'd walk all over the Zulu. After all we have a stong military compared to them now.:lol:

Ankka

Oct 02, 2003, 09:35 AM

Yeah. The Zulu are weak... Funny. Weird. I could say it's odd.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 09:44 AM

On a side note yesterday we won the 1st SG I ever signed up for.[dance] Me, Ted Jackson, & Zwingli blasted off to Alpha Centari after 3 months, and tons of drop out(even the originator dropped it).

I gotta say while you can complete a normal game at least 100x faster, nothing beats snatching victory from the AI in a SG. All the hard work & write ups make it that much better.

OK, I'm done self promoting now.;)

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 09:50 AM

Good job Gengis! Lead this group to victory now! :lol:

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 10:03 AM

If you can give me a screenshot, I can work on the dotmap at work.

Well done, GK....you will need to lead us to win too. (Never won a SG)

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 10:07 AM

Well I'm sure ER1 will be your first then.:D

After all, you might have to be the leader after getting into the HoF!! ;)

Congrats! :goodjob:

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 10:15 AM

Thx GK, just lucky...just lucky.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 10:18 AM

:lol:
That's what they all say.:rolleyes:

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 11:22 AM

Can someone post a screenshot so that I can work on a possible dotmap and/or FP during lunch?

Without looking at the save game, I suggest our FP goes to Berlin.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 11:35 AM

I would love to, unfortunatly my printshop has been glitching lately & for some reason I can't copy & paste anything to it.

Hopefully someone else will step up to bat.

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 01:38 PM

I can get it done tonight, but not any sooner. :undecide:

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 01:56 PM

Thanks SE, it's alright, once I'm off work (if I get off work), I will have a look at it. Btw, based on current roster, I am after you? or am I after sabo?

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 02:05 PM

This is the player order when it began:

Gengis Khan
sabo10
Superevie
gormdragan
zorven
Wizard

But I got banned for like half a day in the middle of all this and it got thrown off. I'm going to check again and let you know...

Okay, I looked over the entire thread an di believe this is order (get me if I'm wrong Gengis):

Gengis
sabo10
gormdragan
zorven
Superevie (me)
Wizard

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 02:17 PM

If it's the same to you guys, I like to be spaced further away from GK. We have too many SGs in common and I am usually behind him. This is resulting in a "floodgate" style SG series. :D

I.e. can we go back to the original roster?

Gengis Khan
sabo10
Superevie
gormdragan
zorven
Wizard

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 02:22 PM

I don't mind going back. I was just stating where it stands now. Does everyone want to bring it back the way it was before I was place under house arrest? :)

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 02:52 PM

I have a stupid question, I don't know the lingo too much since this is my first SG, but in GK's notes he used the initials IT... what does that stand for?

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 02:56 PM

IT = In-between Turns

some of us (including myself) use IBT instead.

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 02:58 PM

I've also heard that IT means Inter-turn. :)

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 03:02 PM

ah.....that makes sense too. Pardon my ignorance. Just joined forums recently.

Gengis Khan

Oct 02, 2003, 03:11 PM

I'm back!! Gotta love those days you go into work just to be told you're not needed & go home.:D

I have no problem with going back to the original roster, I'm about to dump 2 other SGs on gorm & I don't want his head to explode.;)

And yea it's Inter-turn(or in between turn, whatever makes you happy). It comprises of the AIs movement, & your production phase. I'm all about acronyms, cause I'm lazy.

Padma

Oct 02, 2003, 03:13 PM

Inter-Turn, In-Between Turn, ... :crazyeye: As long as you understand that it is the AI's turn, it doesn't matter. ;)

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 03:54 PM

Ha, well goofy me thought in meant Information Technology since I"m in the computer business.. har :lol: I'll be taking my turn in about an hour, hang in there everyone.. :)

Northern Pike

Oct 02, 2003, 04:19 PM

{Delurk}

Sabo10, you've got 2129 posts and this is your first SG? The Slow-to-Commit Award is hereby retired forever in your honour. ;)

{Lurk}

gormdragan

Oct 02, 2003, 05:00 PM

Wow....that's very keen observation....2129 posts....impressive!!!!

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Northern Pike
{Delurk}

Sabo10, you've got 2129 posts and this is your first SG? The Slow-to-Commit Award is hereby retired forever in your honour. ;)

{Lurk}

I got a couple of PBEM games behind me and I tried mulitplayer on line once back when PTW was really buggy (didn't work) I guess I never gave SD games much thought until now...

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 06:46 PM

Aren't you next sabo?

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 06:53 PM

Yep, I just got home... Nice playing GK you got the temple going in Izumo to snag that ivory when our culture expands and we have a good amount of workers (9) with one more on the way, I sure would like to get that incense south of zulu land though, we'll see what happens

Here we go, Sabo's 1st turn:
saboturn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wizbc1.jpg)

[edit] oops, I meant to "image" that not "link" it.. oh well

sabo

Oct 02, 2003, 07:40 PM

Turn 1:
Culture expansion in a couple of cities nothing more, I hope I didn't upset anyone but I changed production in Nara from Galley to harbor, it was at a size two and wasn't going to grow anymore unless it had a harbor, besides then we can make veteran naval units

Turn 2:
Moved workers to hook up iron down south, other than that zzz zzz zzz

Turn 3:
Got Lit switched to GL two other civs are also going for it, started researching Math then construction to get to the next age, I figure we can pick up Monarchy later with the GL

Turn 4:
Zulu's trying to get down with an impi and settler to get that incense, I'm blocking him with my warrior (back and forth) I got a horseman coming down to help, and a settler on the way but I need to keep him blocked for a few turns.

IT - Zulu wanted to renew RoP, told him to "take a hike" No more RoP with Zulu

Turn 5:
So far I'm blocking zulu's settler from getting that incense, we'll see how my luck turns out, started a worker to hook up the dye's NW

Turn 6:
Hooked up iron down south, switched from horseman to swordsman in kyoto, we still have another horseman producing city going too. Horseman is almost there to help with blocking strategy.

Turn 7:
Built new city up N "nagasaki"

Turn 8:
Horseman and Warrior are now successfully blocking Zulu from getting his settler to the insence, our settler should get there soon,

Turn 9:
Zulu planted his settler on the other side of mountains, I thought he would go for greener pastures to grown in, we have an archer, horseman, and warrrior along with a settler down there, I'm giong to let it ride and let Evie decide if she wants to attack and destroy his city, we are currently at war with no one.

Turn 10:
Nothing... your turn Evie..

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_530bc.SAV)

Sabo's last turn:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wizbc2.jpg

Superevie

Oct 02, 2003, 07:45 PM

I'll play tomorrow night. I'm tired now. :)

Ankka

Oct 03, 2003, 12:05 AM

No problem.

Good playing, sabo :thumbsup:

I haven't checked the last two saves, but if you're playing them so well, I might not need to. Whoa! This thread got two new pages in just 10 hours...

sabo

Oct 03, 2003, 05:31 AM

Thanks Wiz! But if you can see any improvements I might need to take don't hesitate to chime in, that's why I decided to try a SG game, I might be missing a few things that other people pick up. And yes this thread got long waiting for me to play ;)

(ps... personally Evie I would take that zulu city and take those incense from shaka, we got swordsmen coming in now :) but it's your choice)

Ankka

Oct 03, 2003, 05:48 AM

Umm... is some city building the GL already? I had Osaka prebuild for it...

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 05:52 AM

I'm in the middle of a SG right now, but when I'm finished I'll check out your turns if you want Sabo. I'm not claiming to be an expert(or even close for that matter:lol:), but I might be able to spot something you might have overlooked.

Ankka

Oct 03, 2003, 06:17 AM

So, it's

SE- playing
gorm- get ready
zorven- you're on the bench, ready to be here after gorm.

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 10:58 AM

All in all a great set of turns. I can only spot a thing or two I would have done differently, & these aren't "right or wrong" they're judgement calls.

A couple points Sabo: The gally was for suicide purposes to meet overseas civs. I would have let the 1st galley produce then started on the harbor, but it was actually better long term doing it your way. Now we'll just get a gally in less turns after the harbor completes.

You started researching Math after Lit(with construction on quota after math), full speed ahead. I definatly wouldn't have done this for 2 reasons: We don't need catapults for the coming war with Shaka & we'll pick it up as soon as the GL is built. And Shaka has Math already(although he probably didn't when you started researching it), if we don't wipe him out we'll get it in peace talks.
Basically I see 4 viable paths after Lit was researched: 1. Turn off research completly or put 1 scientist into Monarchy. 2. Research Code & Republic as fast as possible, then turn off research. 3. Research Monarchy as fast as possible, then turn off research. 4. Continue on researching as fast as possible until the GL built(the one you did). Personally I would have gone with 1(most likely) or 3 depending how fast I could get monarchy(how many turns I could save VS how much I'd have to put into it to get it that much faster). Like I said, judgement calls.

One other note about worker task management: the worker thats headed over to road the dyes(next to Kyoto) is for now pointless. That tile can't be worked by any city we have, & we won't want to trade with any other civs untill Magnatism(end of the Middle Ages). With only 10 workers we need to make the most out of each one. -- Also around Izumo & Nagasaki you have 3 workers working on 3 seperate tiles. With non-industrial & slave workers its far better to stack workers for tasks. For example: say Izumo has 2 pop & 2 BGs(both roaded so movement isn't a factor) you want to mine, you also have 2 workers available, while some people might put 1 in each space & mine them getting both done in 6 turns. However it is far more practical to stack them & have both work 1 tile, the first mine is done in 3 turns netting you an extra sheild per turn for 3 turns then you would have had otherwise, then the 2nd one is still finished on the 6th turn. This works for everything, the bigger the task the better(you should never clear a jungle with 1 worker for ex).

The incense to the far south isn't really that big of a deal right now as we have a source already roaded inside our border. However in the future we'll get a city to that spot after the Zulu are pushed back. I'd settle 1 spot north of the cow(on the desert), this will get a cow, 3 floodplains, has plains around for minning, & fits in perfectly to our build layout.

Hope these don't sound overly critical, just trying to help out & offer my insight. :)

Btw- Very good placement on Nagasaki!

[edit]- Whoa!! I didn't mean to write a book, how does that always happen!?!

gormdragan

Oct 03, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan

One other note about worker task management: the worker thats headed over to road the dyes(next to Kyoto) is for now pointless. That tile can't be worked by any city we have, & we won't want to trade with any other civs untill Magnatism(end of the Middle Ages). With only 10 workers we need to make the most out of each one. -- Also around Izumo & Nagasaki you have 3 workers working on 3 seperate tiles. With non-industrial & slave workers its far better to stack workers for tasks. For example: say Izumo has 2 pop & 2 BGs(both roaded so movement isn't a factor) you want to mine, you also have 2 workers available, while some people might put 1 in each space & mine them getting both done in 6 turns. However it is far more practical to stack them & have both work 1 tile, the first mine is done in 3 turns netting you an extra sheild per turn for 3 turns then you would have had otherwise, then the 2nd one is still finished on the 6th turn. This works for everything, the bigger the task the better(you should never clear a jungle with 1 worker for ex).

Another thing to look out in worker actions is to account also for worker movement. E.g., if you move 8 workers on a jungle square to work, you have lost 8 worker action turns. There has to be a balance between worker stacks and worker movement as well.

Worker stacks may not always be better. Especially industrial workers, the movement cost may sometimes out weigh the action cost.

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 11:18 AM

Very true!

Thats why for my example I used roaded squares & non-industrial workers for simplification.

It's a giant math problem, hope you have your calculater ready!;):lol:

sabo

Oct 03, 2003, 12:52 PM

GK, you are correct on everything you mentioned. My thinking was to hook up the extra and non-functional lux's for future trading, in alot of cases I've seen city building and culture expanding happens alot quicker than workers finishing roads to them, but like I said.. I'm willing to try things differently. Also, I didn't see (missed it??) the post on building the suicide galley, otherwise I would have left it alone.. Sorry :( , and after lit I normally would turn off all science and just rake in the $$ but someone said they didn't want to do that so I figured the best route would be to get Math and construction and get us into the next age and pick up those techs in the ancient age with our GL.
That's what my thinking was anyway :)

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 01:16 PM

No need to apoligize it was a good set of turns either way.

Like I said the research was a judgement call, & we're actually better off with the harbor then with a gally. Since I seriously doubt our first gally will get across the ocean & it's sheer numbers of galleys that makes the trip possible.

Superevie

Oct 03, 2003, 07:14 PM

I might not be able to play tonight. Is it okay if I don't make it til tomorrow? Please say yes!

(PS check your PMs Gengis)

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 07:23 PM

I have no objections, if the next person in line gets too impatient I guess they can go ahead and play & you can take it from them tomorrow.

Don't worry, I don't think that's gonna happen since IIRC gorm is the next person up & he's going through SG overload today.;):lol:

gormdragan

Oct 03, 2003, 09:13 PM

Thank you superevie......just saved my neck.

my head is exploding. :wallbash:

1 down, 2 to go.

Superevie

Oct 03, 2003, 09:23 PM

I finished! Here's my turnlog. I think I did pretty damn well. This is some of my best work. :) Enjoy!:

510 BC: Galley in Nagoya done. Starting another galley. Galley E. Warrior, horseman, and swordsman to Hlobane. Other Horseman and Archer to Ngome. Demaded mathematics from the Zulu. Got it! Demaded 15 gold. Got it too! Declared war on the Zulu. Hold on horseman in Ngome. Hold settler. Moved worker team NE. Other team starts road. Take warrior from Edo and pull him into war. Got aztecs in an MA with me for math and 20g. Started road to second silks. Warrior by Germans goes S1.

IT: Germans demand world map. No way. We are saving that for later.

490 BC: Warrior in mountains S1. Ngome destroyed!!! With Horseman. We lost a brave Archer. We liberate 12 gold. Bringing settler and accompanying warrior to the spot where Ngome once was. Victorious horseman W1. All workers working on roads and mines. Suicide galley to the E. Warrior in mountains S1.

IT: Swordman in Kyoto done. Starting another one. Edo does horseman. Starts another one. Barracks done in Satsuma. Starting Horseman. Harbor in Nara done. Starting suicide galley.

470 BC: Getting new swordsman involved in war S. Horseman, swordsman combo take out an Impi in Hlobane. Horseman promoted to elite as well! Woo hoo! Suicide galley somehow made it, so E some more. Can see pale pink borders. Chinese? Horseman with settler W1.

IT: Impi comin’ out to get my people by Hlobane.

450 BC: Tokyo made settler. Now spearman. Made a 2 horseman, warrior, swordsman stack. Used swordsman to attack impi. Impi got away with one hit point. Horseman (2), warrior combo platter attacks Impi in Hlobane. Destroyed Hlobane with horseman. Got 13 g and a worker! Woooo hoooo!!!!! Lost horseman to warrior near Bapedi. Got warrior down to one hit point, though. Suicide galley E. Found China. Traded contact with the Aztecs for territory map and 90 gold. Moving horsemen down to Bapedi. Hold settler in Tokyo. Worried about the Zulu taking him. Built Yokohama. Starting spearman.

IT: Zulu warrior attacked horseman. We won and got promoted to Elite. Temple in Izumo done. Starting Archer.

430 BC: Hold settler again in Tokyo. Doubled up horsemen to take out injured impi. Took him out. ;) Movin’ on to Bapedi!

410 BC: Hold settler one more time. Still nervous. Brought up sci rate to 60%. Found Egypt. Traded 40g for her territory map.

IT: 2 Archers from Zulu coming up. Gah!

390 BC: Stack o’ four to take out the 2 regular archers. Took one, but the archer pushed my horseman to retreat. Hold on settler.

IT: Archer attacked. We win unscathed!!!!!

370 BC: Swordsman in Kyoto done. Starting Horseman. Horseman in Edo done. Starting another one. Moving towards Zululand. Movin’ into Bapedi. Healing my horsemen first. Hold Settler.

IT: Zulu warrior took out one ours. GAAAAHHHH!!! :mad:

350 BC: Hold settler. We lost our swordsman in the Battle of Bapedi. :(

IT: Impi attacked horseman. We win!

330 BC: Holding horsemen. Bringing the other horseman and swordsman into stack. Hold settler.

I got it in on time too! :D

Superevie

Oct 03, 2003, 09:30 PM

The site says my save game is too big. I need to post it! What do I do? :(

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 09:42 PM

I've never had that problem. Are you trying to attach it or uploading it to the server??

gormdragan

Oct 03, 2003, 10:34 PM

you need to submit a non-auto save file. Autosave files are uncompressed and may be too big.

Gengis Khan

Oct 03, 2003, 10:45 PM

Good call gorm!! I knew we kept you around for a reason.;)

Ankka

Oct 04, 2003, 03:12 AM

Are normal saves compressed? I didn't know that. You know, I learn somthin' new everyday here in this SG...:)

Good playing, SE!:) :thumbsup: How many Zulu cities did we take? Two? that's good. I hope the Aztecs didn't trade Egyptian contact to germany, we could have gotten money from it... I say, you've improved a lot from your last set of turns, SE! :)

Padma

Oct 04, 2003, 05:54 PM

Compressed or not, the best bet is to upload the save to the file server, and then link to it. ;)

Superevie

Oct 04, 2003, 05:58 PM

Thanks, Wiz. :)

I tried to attach it, but maybe uploading it would be better. Let me try that instead.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_330bc.SAV)

God, if you're really up there, let this work.....

Smellincoffee

Oct 04, 2003, 06:28 PM

I doubt He cares about Civ, but it looks like it worked. :D

Superevie

Oct 04, 2003, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Smellincoffee
I doubt He cares about Civ, but it looks like it worked. :D

It worked?! There is a God!!! :D And yes, He probably does care very deeply about Civ. Who wouldn't? :lol:

Homer Simpson: "I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, save me Superman!"

Gengis Khan

Oct 04, 2003, 06:38 PM

I like "Save me Jebus!" more.:lol:

Gengis Khan- twidling my thumbs;)
sabo10
Superevie
gormdragan- UP!
zorven- on deck.
Wizard- on the bench

gormdragan

Oct 04, 2003, 07:03 PM

Preturn:
MM Osaka to make GL 1 turn faster (very very important, I think we need to at least MM wonder-building city, that 1 turn might be the difference between getting it and not getting it)
Tokyo changes from spear to granary(lots of free land to settle still)
Kagoshima changes from galley to harbor
MM Nara to grow
MM Nagoya to grow without loss of production
Izumo changes from archer to granary (no rax+archer is a waste of time)
MM Izumo to grow 1 turn faster

Here are some issues I have observed:

(1)
Yokohama is settled in a bad spot, so far from our core, exposed and asking to be sacked, settling just beside the zulus, whom we are at war with. Sorry guys I might want to abandon it. Please explain the placement.

(2)
Why are we hooking extra luxuries? Our capital is not connected to any harbor. Wasted worker tasks. I will prioritize the road to nara.

(3)
I plan to use Tokyo and Izumo to produce workers and settlers. Still lots of unclaimed land. Need to irrigate the cattle (priority) in Izumo.

(4)
Before I continue, I like to ask the purpose of attacking the Zulus. There is so much unclaimed land around and attacking the zulu cities only results in sacking. The war is burning a hole in our progress without good returns. Please explain to me as I have half a heart to end the war.

(5)
We are building GL. More than 2 AI has construction, so why are we burning a 60% research on construction? I plan to cut research to zero if there is no objection.

eric2075

Oct 04, 2003, 07:46 PM

delurk]

Gorm wants to end a war? Thought I'd never see that. :lol:

Ankka

Oct 05, 2003, 02:09 AM

Your points are good, gorm. Only I think you should try to get as much as possible from the zulu, if you make peace. At least all of their gold, techs, perhaps cities, too. Otherwise continue to :hammer: them.

gormdragan

Oct 05, 2003, 07:40 AM

Sueing for peace now gets us either:

(1) CoL, Construction, 71gp, Contact with American
(2) 71gp, Contact with American, Bepedi (iron resource)

If we do not sue for peace, and continue attacking, those cites will be razed (size 1, not expanded border) and we will not get to keep them. I would take option 2.

Also, looking at our WM, I think the best FP spot is Berlin, which means we need to bring war to the germans, and get a GL for hurried FP.

Ankka

Oct 05, 2003, 09:14 AM

Yeah. I think option 2 is OK, as we'll get those techs via GL (if we get it). Now make peace with the Zulu, and then attack Germany? Not a bad idea.

zorven- get ready

gormdragan

Oct 05, 2003, 09:25 AM

I have been called back to office. Will wait for others' comments and play once i am back from the office.

Gengis Khan

Oct 05, 2003, 12:19 PM

Definatly no objection to dropping to research to 0.

I'd say go with #2 as well. As long as we're at war with someone I'm happy. ;)

gormdragan

Oct 05, 2003, 01:13 PM

Ok. Unless there is any objection until I reach home, I will do the following

(1) link capitol to Nara(harbor)
(2) Sue Peace with Zulu for city+contact
(3) drop research to zero
(4) Build up a SOD for war with Germans
(5) keep yokohama, since we get Bepedi when we sue for peace

Please commend as my proposals may on the wrong track.

Superevie

Oct 05, 2003, 05:56 PM

I didn't start the war with the intention of totally wiping out the Zulu. I wanted to get a large peace settlement for some cities and other things like money and contacts. :)

gormdragan

Oct 05, 2003, 10:52 PM

Preturn (continued):
MM Nagasaki to make spear 1 turn faster.

We can't sue peace with zulu.We have an 11 turn alliance with Aztec.

Oh well, wearing my warmonging hat ;) .....Tora!!! Tora!!! Tora!!!

research down to zero, will run a 40turn gambit once we have unhappy citizen overload in any of our cities.

upgrade vet war in Satsuma
upgrade vet war in kyoto
moblize elite war in Nara

reorganize garrison, we dun need double garrisons in all cities except Osaka.

one more comment, why did we mine plains?

Word of advice, keep horseman away from hills/forest/mountain/jungle, waste of mobility.

IBT:
Elite horse retreats to elite war

(1)310:
Nagasaki makes spear starts gran

(2)290:
Kyoto makes horse starts temple

Vet swords kills elite war, -2hp

(3)270:
Edo makes horse, starts horse
Satsuma makes horse, starts horse

(4)250:
Shimonoseki founded, starts rax
Yokohama changes from spear to rax
Try not connect Shimonoseki and Yokohama, I plan to use these 2 cities to build cheap vet wars for upgrades

Siege of Bapedi
Vet horse kills reg impi

IBT:
Isandhlwana overthrown their oppressors and pleged allegiance to us. We accept.

(5)230:
Vet swords kills reg impi, -2hp
Vet swords kills reg impi, -3hp

Siege of Bapedi
Vet horse dies to reg impi, -1hp
Elite horse kills reg impi, -2hp

Bapedi razed, we get 7gp.

Vet horse kills reg impi

IBT:
Vet swords kills reg archer, promotes

(6)210:
Kyoto makes temple, starts settler (will rush to time grow and production)
Nara makes galley, starts spear
Nagoya makes galley, starts rax

Siege of Intombe
Vet swords kills reg impi, -2hp

Intombe is ours....1 resistor, starts spear

IBT:
Vet horse dies to reg archer

(7)190:
Wow our WM is worth $$$. I can get about 150gp+contact with am+construction.
We should sell soon.

(8)170:
Edo make horseman, starts horse
Intombe's resistance has ended.

Siege of Ulundi
Vet horse dies to reg impi, -1hp
Elite horse kills reg impi, -2hp, spawns our first great leader. Banzai!! Banzai!!! Banzai!!! Elite horseman renamed "Hashiba Hadayoshi".

Toyo rushing to Intombe to hurry the pyramids.Sell off all our granaries, and change all granary productions to other stuff.

Kyoto sells granary
Osaka changes from granary to library (only thing to build without waste)
Izumo changes from granary to library
Nagasaki changes from granary to horse

(9)150:
We completed the Great Library
We completed the Great Pyramids

Osaka makes GL, starts settler
Intombe makes GP, starts spear

AI cascades, Egypt makes Great Wall

IBT:
We get Code of Law and Construction

(10)130:
Kyoto makes settler, starts horseman
Barbarian uprising near Shimonoseki (Babylon has reached middle ages)
Nagasaki changed from horseman to spear (we need to reinforce Shimonoseki)

Siege of Ulundi
Vet swords kills reg impi,-2hp
Vet horse kills reg archer
Elite* horse retreats reg archer, -2hp

Vet galley kills conscript galley

Summary:
We have 5swords(2injured) and 4horse(2injured) on the way against Ulundi (the archer is the last defender I think). We should be able to get Ulundi next turn.

Attack should go on until we get Zimbabwai and sue for peace (alliance with aztec ends on the 1st turn of the next player)

I change my mind about FP location, I would pick Intombe to be our FP location.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/south_dotmap.jpg

In the south territory dotmap, these 4 are suggested cities (high priority, other civs may settle). With Intombe as FP, these cities will be cores.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/north_dotmap.jpg

In the north territory dotmap, these 2 are the next to settle. We should try to get these 2 as they are low corruption cities, will be cores.

Babylon has currency monopoly, Germans have Monarchy monopoly, so we only need one more AI. I would keep research to zero until we get currency and go into middle ages. Once in middle ages, we should go the Military Tradition path. Staying away from education will maximise GL. Dun worry about Chivalry, AI will research them (China has UU-linked to Chivalry)

I would stay away from war until we get all the 6 cities (all core cities if we make Intombe our FP location).

Regarding the uprising of barbarians in shinomoseki, I have moved Izumo's reg war garrison towards shinomoseki, will arrive in the next turn. Nagasaki will make a spear the next turn to protect against barbarian pillaging. The good thing is that the germans has 2-3 archers (hidden in fog of war) near the barbarian camp which should that some pressure off us. We are rich so pillaging is not good.

We might also want to sell our WM soon.

Next better player!!!

Tora!! Tora!! Tora!! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Tokugawa_of_the_Japanese,_130_BC.SAV)

gormdragan

Oct 05, 2003, 11:05 PM

I forgot to wake one of Kyoto's garrison to regarrison Izumo, next player please do so b4 clicking to next turn.

Ankka

Oct 06, 2003, 07:45 AM

Great! :goodjob: I think Intombe would be an OK FP site. Who signed alliance with the Aztecs, and why? :confused: No offense, just asking... So we now have the GL & GP :) Only approx 16 more elite unit battles, and we'll get another leader.

Oh, and those dotmaps look good. Let's use them. :)

zorven- it's your turn!
Wizard- getting ready
Gengis Khan- on the bench

sabo

Oct 06, 2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Wizard

zorven- it's your turn!
Wizard- getting ready
Gengis Khan- on the bench

I thought I was after you wiz?

[edit] oops never mind, I'm after GK

Can someone explain the dot map to me, what it's for and how to get it?

gormdragan

Oct 06, 2003, 08:13 AM

Dotmap is the term used to describe a civ map which is used to hypothetically position future cities to discuss pros and cons. (The dotmaps are the 2 pictures I have attached in my earlier post)

Gengis Khan

Oct 06, 2003, 08:47 AM

:goodjob: Pulling a leader with a horseman! Another thing I've never been lucky enough to do.

Superevie

Oct 06, 2003, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Wizard
Great! :goodjob: I think Intombe would be an OK FP site. Who signed alliance with the Aztecs, and why? :confused: No offense, just asking... So we now have the GL & GP :) Only approx 16 more elite unit battles, and we'll get another leader.

Oh, and those dotmaps look good. Let's use them. :)

zorven- it's your turn!
Wizard- getting ready
Gengis Khan- on the bench

I signed the alliance with the Aztecs. I never like going at it alone. The Aztecs also have a very strong military of Jaguar warriors that can be helpful. It also helps to have a friend because they can soften up the garrisions in the cities you want. Plus, Monty tends to get on my bad side quickly and I didn't want to do that this time. That was the method to my madness. :)

zorven

Oct 06, 2003, 10:32 AM

Got it, will post tomorrow.

Ankka

Oct 06, 2003, 01:37 PM

No bad feelings, SE. :) Everyone plays at his/her own style...

Good, zorven.

Ankka

Oct 06, 2003, 01:49 PM

Oh. Just remembered. I'm unable to play on the 10- 12 October. Hopefully I'll get to pay the save before that.

gormdragan

Oct 06, 2003, 02:03 PM

The military alliance turned out to be a good thing. (I would have sued for peace if not for the alliance)

We ended up proceeding with the systematic elimination of the Zulus. That ended up with us getting a great leader and hence the pyramids. We also ended up with significant good territory to develop our next set of core cities.

RNG favors the bold.

Superevie

Oct 06, 2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by gormdragan
The military alliance turned out to be a good thing. (I would have sued for peace if not for the alliance)

We ended up proceeding with the systematic elimination of the Zulus. That ended up with us getting a great leader and hence the pyramids. We also ended up with significant good territory to develop our next set of core cities.

RNG favors the bold.

SWEET! [dance] Nice job, gorm-boy! :D This has to be the most exciting game of Civ I've ever played. :)

gormdragan

Oct 06, 2003, 06:41 PM

Sorry pple, I will be away on a business trip to mexico for the next 2 days. Should be back on Thursday.

Ankka

Oct 07, 2003, 07:50 AM

No prob, only I'll be missing your comments. :)

Gengis Khan- It shall be your turn before you even realise, get ready
sabo10
Superevie
gormdragan
zorven- playing
Wizard (me)- Next in row, getting ready

zorven

Oct 07, 2003, 02:15 PM

Pre-Turn:
Nothing

IBT:
Aztecs destroy Ulundi. Almost all of the barbs north of Shimonoseki impale themselves on the Germans(?). We discover currency - we are in the middle ages.
Tokyo: Library --> Settler
Satsuma: Horseman --> Spearman
Nagasaki: Spearman --> Temple
Our 20 turns of alliance with the Aztecs is done, but not cancelled.

110 BC:
Set workers, move military towards Zimbabwe. Set research to Feudalism in 24 turns at 50%, +8 gpt.

IBT:
Atzecs want another 20 turn alliance vs. Zulus - declined.
Discover Monarchy - sure, we are religous.
Discover Monotheism.

90:
Move workers and military.

IBT:
Osaka: Settler --> Marketplace

70:
More mundane unit movements.

IBT:
Edo: Horseman --> Aquaduct
Izumo: Library --> Worker

50:
Move units.

IBT:
Kyoto: Horseman --> Marketplace
Yokohama: Barraks --> Spearman
Shimonoseki: War --> War

30:
Hashiba takes out Zulu War.
Battle of Zimbabwe:
Elite Sword take out Impi. Vet Sword kills Impi, gets promoted, and TAKES the city.
Meet Abe, he is down Currency and Monarchy.
Meet Ghandi south of Akkad, he is down Curr, Const, Lit, & Poly. He doesn't seem to know anybody else.
Traded our map around for: 330 + 3 gpt.

IBT:
Tokyo: Settler --> Settler
Isandhlwana: War --> War
Satsuma: Spear --> Market
Nagoya: Barraks --> Spear
Izumo: Worker --> Settler

10:
Founded Matsuyama south of Satsuma: Worker

IBT:
Nara: Spear --> Barracks
India builds Great Lighthouse

10 AD:
zzz

30:
zzz

IBT:
Kagoshima: Harbor --> Worker

50:
Found Ssapporo: Worker

IBT:
Aztecs attack Mondo.
I screwed up and Zimbawbe riots.
Tokyo: Settler --> Settler

70:
There is a settler in Tokyo (yet to move) and one North of Intombe. I was sending them both to the open lands NW of Intombe.

p.s. I don't think I ever made peace with the Zulu.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wiz1_70ad.sav)

Gengis Khan

Oct 07, 2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by zorven
Meet Abe, he is down Currency and Monarchy.
Meet Ghandi south of Akkad, he is down Curr, Const, Lit, & Poly. He doesn't seem to know anybody else.
Traded our map around for: 330 + 3 gpt.
p.s. I don't think I ever made peace with the Zulu.

Couple quick suggestions/observations for the next couple turns:

1. I was hoping to get a tech for our WM, but seeing as noone has a tech we don't have(except Abe has Republic), and everyone knows everyone else someone would just buy partial maps of our continent & devalue ours. I don't know if you realized this or this was the deciding factor in getting rid of it, but good job on the timing & getting the most for it possible!:thumbsup:

2. I once again have to stress workers!! First of all we don't have nearly enough(11 workers & 4 slaves), secondly we're wasting half the ones we do have by putting them to work thats not needed right now. There's a stack of 4 worker & 2 slaves mining a hill outide Kyoto. While this will net us an extra 1 shield pt for the town, is this needed?..... if the city was making 9 sh/pt & that extra shield would bring it to 10 pt, I'd say yes, go for it. But since the city is already producing 11 pt & that will increase it to a (mostly)pointless 12 per turn, its not a priority. Another example 2 workers are irragating a plains outside Osaka. A quick check of Osaka would reveal that the 3 irragated plains that Osaka already have aren't being used. Is this a priority right now, with 3 fallback plains for the citizens to use? 3 workers outside Nagasaki are mining a grassland, while 1 step below them is an unroaded/unmined bonus grassland, and 1 step to the left is an unimproved grassland with horses. In my mind both take the priority over just a plain grassland that Nagasaki is surrounded by.

Zorvan I'm not trying to sound like I'm ripping your turns apart or criticizing you. I've noticed everyone making tiny errors like these & while miniscule by themselves quickly add up when multiplied, granted you can probably win regent or monarch all day long with out problems, if you ever want to move up to emporer or diety these are the kind of details that make or break the game. [edit]- After re-reading my post this still sound overly-condisending, which wasn't my intent. Please don't take offense to it, I'm just trying to help out our newer players. :D

Now for the suggestions: :crazyeye:

3. I'd not make peace with the Zulu, they only have 1 city left, no techs to give us & 2 gold. I'd chose to wipe that last city out getting rid of Shaka once & for all, this will go along way in dealing with the unhappiness issues in the newly conqured Zulu cities.

4. We currently have a stronger military then the Germans, that means that without too much trouble we should be able to go to war with them VERY soon. I have my eye on owning their 6 city core all in 1 swift blitzkreg attack leaving them with just Munich & Heidelsburg, 2 worthless cities that we can raze off at our leisure.

5. Speaking of the Germans I actually like Leipzig as a FP spot more then Berlin. Berlin would only be able to get 1 productive row around it due to the turndra to the north, lake & ocean to the south & west, and mass of plains to the SW. While if we put it in Leipzig we'd ensure that all the cities we have now & the future German/spots where ex-Zulu cities were are virtually corruption free & the entire northern half of the continent would be decent cities with manageable corruption. The southern half we can simply irragate everything & turn into tax collector cities, making sure we still gain gpt from them.

6. I disagree with our outlinned research path(sorry gorm;) ). Seeing as we're the tech leader we won't be pulling any techs from the GL any time soon, doesn't anyone want samurai?? Don't you like their cool sounds & bad ass attack animations?? My vote is finish Fuedalism(increasing our spending to get it down to 6 turns), research Chivalry(again as fast as possible), then completly turn off research cashing in off the GL after a while. With all the money saved we'll quickly repay the deficit we create over the next 10 turns or so. We'll also be able to have a serious chunk(a couple thousand at least), put aside for upgrades/ rushed improvements, when they finally hit education. With all the infrastructer & money we'll have we can rush a library & Uni in every core city once education is hit & easily out distance the AI in tech pace. *Note* Don't build any libraries untill education as it throws away 2 gpt per library.

I also had a #7 but I forgot it. :lol: Oh well. Any thoughts on what victory condition we'd like to start gunnin for?? And which one seems most likely?

-- Oh yea, although we can trade with India now: DON'T do it until astronamy. With only coastal tiles conecting our harbors & a long line of single coastal tiles easily blocked by the enemy, it would only be a matter of time before our route was cut leaving us with the bad rep & all our gpt deals shot.

My 2c.

Ankka

Oct 08, 2003, 08:07 AM

Good, zorven! :goodjob:

So, it's my turn. I'll propably play it today. Any ideas or suggestions?

So, using Gengis' post as main instructions, this is what I'm gonna try to do: I'll try to wipe Zulu off the face of Earth. :D And then to attack all of those German cities at once. Hopefully we could even get a new GL :).

Propably, at least seeing this start, we could go to a military victory. (Domination/ conquest) What do you think? I've already asked this many times!

Gengis Khan- you're next!
sabo- on the bench
SE
gorm
zorven- just played
Wizard (me)- playing

Hopefully I'll do better than last time... At least I'll try to.

Ankka

Oct 08, 2003, 09:32 AM

Umm, GK, how did you plan the blitz assault against the germans? :confused: I'm currently playing, and I'd like to know, so I won't mess it up.

Superevie

Oct 08, 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Wizard
Umm, GK, how did you plan the blitz assault against the germans? :confused: I'm currently playing, and I'd like to know, so I won't mess it up.

I think Gengis means to make the attack quick and decisive. He means to attack the little stuff quickly and just overtake Germany. I think that's what he means anyway. :p GK, am I right? :confused:

Gengis Khan

Oct 08, 2003, 09:51 AM

Impressive young grasshoppa.;):lol:

Superevie

Oct 08, 2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
Impressive young grasshoppa.;):lol:

Yay! :D Man I've learned a lot from you. :p

Anyway, Wizard, just attack the Germans hard and fast and you'll do okay. (After deafeating the Zulu, of course ;))

Gengis Khan

Oct 08, 2003, 09:58 AM

Don't worry bout messing up, I'm really not picky. All my posts are mearly suggestions & what I'd do so you can see an additional strategy before you start. My suggestions aren't written in stone, you can do whatever you want that's what make SGs fun.:D

Ankka

Oct 08, 2003, 10:17 AM

Hey, c'mon, I'm not stupid... Ok, I'll just attack them swift & fast. :D I just wasn't sure if GK had a more sophisticated plan that I could even think of...:rolleyes:

Superevie

Oct 08, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Wizard
Hey, c'mon, I'm not stupid... Ok, I'll just attack them swift & fast. :D I just wasn't sure if GK had a more sophisticated plan that I could even think of...:rolleyes:

I wasn't saying you were stupid. :) I think you're very smart and I can't wait to see your turnlog. :)

Ankka

Oct 08, 2003, 10:33 AM

I've only played a few turns. I'll play the rest today evening, if I have the time.

sabo

Oct 08, 2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Superevie

I wasn't saying you were stupid. :) I think you're very smart and I can't wait to see your turnlog. :)

I think we have a nice group of good players, everyone has good input and slightly different styles... I works for me!! :)

gormdragan

Oct 08, 2003, 09:53 PM

i'm back

Ankka

Oct 09, 2003, 08:26 AM

I just didn't have time to complete my turns yesterday, so it took until now to get it mailed. The turns did'nt go very well, especially the German war was a terrible soup...:( Anyway, here's the turnlog:

70AD: Set science to 90%, income -16gpt. Move Settler from Tokyo toward settling spot (WWW from Intombe). Press Enter.

IBT: An Aztec Jag war is defeated near Mpondo by a Zulu Archer. Izumo builds settler, start worker. Nagasaki builds Temple, start Horse.

90AD: Move settler from Izumo towards settling spot N of Kyoto. Upgrde 3 wars in Edo to Swords for 120gp. Troops start gathering near the German border. Vet galley defeats barb galley near the Aztec shore.

IBT: Our vet horseman is killed by the Zulu archer near Mpondo. I thought it was Aztec. :wallbash: Nagoya builds Spear, start worker.

110AD: Troops continue to move toward German border.

IBT: Our vet galley defeats another barb galley near the Aztec shore. Osaka builds Market, starts Haning gardens to prebuild Sun Tzu's. Izumo builds worker, starts horse.

130AD: Hashiba defeats Zulu archer near Mpondo. Our WM is worthless. The civs have traded it to each other. I press enter.

IBT: Kyoto builds Market, starts settler. Declare war at the Germans.
Battle of Leipzig: OUr Elite horseman is taken to 1 hp by a german spear, but we retreat. Another German spear kills our vet horse.
Our vet horse kills a german archer near Berlin.

150AD:Nothing...

IBT: Indians build a city near the bab border, S of our lands. Tokyo builds settler, starts Market. Nagya builds worker, starts temple. Shimonoseki war, war.

170AD: Our new war in Shimono is killed by a German archer. A german arch kills or horse near Lepzig. :( Our horse kills german archer with settler, we get 2 slaves! :) Our horse kills a german archer, ges promoted to elite. Hakodate built.

IBT: Feudalism researched. Start Chivalry at full speed, due in 11 turns. Isandhlwana war, war. Edo builds Aqueduct, start horse. Nagasaki horse, horse. Whoops, Shimonoseki riots! Matsuyama builds worker, starts temple.

190AD: Our sword attacks spear in Leipzig, wins. Spear in Leipzig kills our sword. Ditto. :( Hashiba kills Impi in Mpondo, -2hp. Our reg horse retreats when attacking a german spear in Leipzig. Upgrade war in Edo.

IBT: Shaka wants peace, but has nothing to give. I refuse. German archer kills our horse. Kyoto builds settler, starts sword. Nara builds rax, start market.

210AD: Our horse kills german archer. Impi in Mpondo kills Hashiba...:( :mad: Ise built.

IBT: Our vet galley near the Aztec beach kills another barb galley. Izumo horse, horse. Indians build the Colossus.

230AD: Toyama built NW from Kyoto. Start war. Fukushima built.

IBT: Edo horse, horse. Kagoshima worker, temple. Sapporo worker, worker. Egypt is building the Hanging Gardens. So is America.

250AD: Change Osaka from Hanging Gardens to Sun Tzu's.

Battle of Lepzig:
Our horse retreats from German spear. Ditto. Ditto. And that spear's still unharmed! Upgrade war to sword in Edo.

Luckily, GK is playing after me, and he is a lot better in war. Hop he can fix my mistakes...

Well, at least we should have a few more workers now, as I built some. I also built horses, so we can upgrade them into Samurais. Hope we can then at last :hammer: the Germans.

Ankka

Oct 09, 2003, 09:02 AM

The save: :wallbash: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Wiz01_250AD.SAV)

So:

Gengis Khan- you're up, to fix my mistakes...
sabo10- on deck
Superevie
gormdragan
zorven
Wizard (me)- hoping GK fixes my mistakes

Ankka

Oct 09, 2003, 09:03 AM

Hey, and great to have you back, gorm. :)

Gengis Khan

Oct 09, 2003, 10:13 AM

Welcome back gorm! Well the first difference I would have done was wipe out the Zulu, then gone to war with the Germans.:lol:

Got it & will try to play today.:D

gormdragan

Oct 09, 2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Gengis Khan

6. I disagree with our outlinned research path(sorry gorm;) ). Seeing as we're the tech leader we won't be pulling any techs from the GL any time soon, doesn't anyone want samurai?? Don't you like their cool sounds & bad ass attack animations?? My vote is finish Fuedalism(increasing our spending to get it down to 6 turns), research Chivalry(again as fast as possible), then completly turn off research cashing in off the GL after a while. With all the money saved we'll quickly repay the deficit we create over the next 10 turns or so. We'll also be able to have a serious chunk(a couple thousand at least), put aside for upgrades/ rushed improvements, when they finally hit education. With all the infrastructer & money we'll have we can rush a library & Uni in every core city once education is hit & easily out distance the AI in tech pace. *Note* Don't build any libraries untill education as it throws away 2 gpt per library.

My 2c.

We are not tech leader. At least not during my turn. My intention to hold off research until middle ages and beeline for military tradition using a 40turn gambit. Chivalry most certainly comes free with chinese on another continent (no need to worry about riders) Our swords and horseman are doing perfectly well and I see no reason to go for sams anytime soon. (remember we were still in despotism during my turn and GA in despotism is such a waste).

Having said that, I have not read the subsequent turns and my opinions are mostly likely outdated.

P.S. I usually turn off animation and sound, and therefore have no idea how a sam sounds or animates like.