Hi folks!

We are looking for 3 more players for a sucession
game.

Settings: a large map with little land,
continents. Empror level, barbs are raging. The
map is special-made to give the Ais that are not
on our continent lots of boost - otherwise, taking
over our continent would be a win already. This
way, we hope the Ais will be a bit of a challange
in Industrial and Modern Age.

Enabled wins: conquest, space, culture.

Roster

1) - Melifluous
2) - CarlosMM
3) - Sir Eric
4) - DrAlimentado
5) - Jack Merchant
6) - Aggie
7) - WildFire
(Sub for Aggie) - Puwen

Civ = Germans (to celebrate KarlosMM's BDay)

Game started

Max players = 7 in total.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_StartPos2.jpg

Melifluous

Put me down.
I have only played a few turns of one other pbem so if their are any special things I need to know please let me know.

This isn't a PBEM, but an SG...

Play 10 turns, write a log and post it. Wait for your next 10 turns etc.

You're in anyway unless you post saying that you dont wanna ;)

Melifluous

put me down :)

You smell and your civ playing skills are unworthy...

Oh you mean you wanna join the game ;)

You're in ...

Melifluous

I would have been your daddy but the dog beat me upstairs...

[we can still insult eachother even though we're not playing against eachother right? ;)]

:lol:

I though you'd packed civ away mel. Good to see you still at it.

That does'nt mean you can count me in. I hate taking orders or suggestions from others.

I am away for 5 weeks as from november 2nd. But this team...is hard to resist. What to do now :undecide: ?

There needs to be at least one competent player involved for this team to have more than a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

That's where I come in :D.

How about the English by the way ?

Melifluous,
If you're playing 1.29f, I'll give it a try. Otherwise, I'll have to wait until C3C comes out.

Aggie - join anyway! it's not up to me but I'm sure it's okay for you to have a 5 week skip :)

Jack, the english stink, and I hate expansionist just because I have no hut luck. Mind, mel is luck incarnated so maybe we should go with that. If we do go for ****ty english and their ****ty UU lets change the colour though, I hate orange!

Originally posted by Dr Alimentado
I hate orange!
Scandalous remark! That's our national colour and Jack and me are very proud of what it represents!! :p

OK, I'll join! I don't mind the English at all (although the exp trait would be waisted on archipelago - edit: 80% water, continents). I'd like any commercial civ (except Spain...playing them already). Maybe France the most. But also Korea and Greece sound good!

The English stink ? I thought DrA and Meli would have become accustomed to the smell by now !

Anyway, that's why I suggested them in the first place :) (that and the nicely timed GA). Though any civ is fine with me really !

We could also choose to be Germany (CarlosMM), since there is no Autralian or Dutch civ in the game.

I'm in.

And that would be the last man in...

I will start this tonight.

We are the Germans cos its KarlosMMs birthday and he never even told me even though we MSNed today.
(Also I've heard rumours of the vast herds of cattle that roam the plains of a distant land and think that Panzers maybe just the thing ;) )

So there :p

Melifluous

PS. Apologies Sir Bugsy but this is gonna be a 1.27f PTW game.

No problem. I'll get to play in those types soon enough. Good luck to all. :thumbsup:

Turn 01 (4000BC) - Worker moves east. Settler moves SE. Coast showing 2 tiles to the SW ;)

Turn 02 (3950BC) - Worker moves to cow east of settler, there is another cow east of him, 3 cows is enough and we settle. Research 100% pottery, start warrior in Berlin.

Turn 03 (3900BC) - Worker starts road on Cow.

Turn 04 (3850BC) - And on the fourth day he rested :D

Turn 05 (3800BC) - and fifth.

Turn 06 (3750BC) - Worker completes road, starts mine.

Turn 07 (3700BC) - Berlin warrior -> warrior. Warrior moves two squares east.

Turn 08 (3650BC) - Warrior goes se, incense abounds in them thar hills. 3 east of capital is my new favourite second city spot. Coast, 2 cows and 2 incense.

Turn 09 (3600BC) - Warrior moves ne to the coast. Berlin size 2, lux to 20%.

Turn 10 (3550BC) - Warrior moves north.

IT - We meet the locals, a friendly English scout appears from the west.

Turn 11 (3500BC) - Berlin warrior -> warrior. Warrior2 moves west, warrior1 moves east. Trade the English WC for Pottery and 35 gold. Research switched to the Wheel @ 20%

Turn 12 (3450BC) - warrior2 nw, warrior1 north.

Turn 13 (3400BC) - warrior2 north, warrior1 north.

Turn 14 (3350BC) - Berlin warrior -> granary. warrior3 fortifies. We meet Vikings to the north with warrior1, we trade BW and 2gpt for CB and 7 gold. We now do +1gpt and have 58 gold.

Turn 15 (3300BC) - Warrior1 goes west. Warrior2 goes north. Berlin size 3, lux to 10%, research to 10%

Turn 16 (3250BC) - worker completes road on second cow, starts mine.

Turn 17 (3200BC) - Warrior moves north, we are on a small peninsula and both England and Vikings came from the west :o

Turn 18 (3150BC) - Warrior2 spots a viking border to the NW.

Turn 19 (3100BC) - warriors move :yawn:

Turn 20 (3050BC) - And again... well dull ending sorry ;) England still wont sell Alphabet and now they are insulted by our best offer of CB, 64 gold and 1gpt, the trade advisor used to say that he doubted they would take it...

Wheat to the NW is now my favourite spot for the second city.
No rivers in sight (sorry NMT ex-players :( )

Quick Recap.

We have LOTS of cows(4) and incense easily in range.
We have BW, Pot, WC and CB.
Egypt has Alphabet we dont and neither does Vikings.
We and the Vikings have CB and Egypt dont.
We are paying germany 2gpt.
We have 64gold and do +1 gpt.
We have 1 worker.
We have 3 warriors.
Lux = 10%, Research = 10%.
31 turns from The Wheel.
2 roads and a mine up, and another mine in 2 turns.

Have fun Prvt. KarlosMM, you're up...

Melifluous

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_3050_2BC.jpg

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_3050BC.sav)

EDITED: Stupidity levels still remain within acceptable boundaries

Message from CarlosMM :

"Got it"

;)

Originally posted by Skyfish
Message from Lt Killer M :

"Got it"

;)

:lol: He is too "occupied" :groucho:

I have in my hands a report from our man Prvt. KarlosMM from the front...

moved the warriors around, trying to block Viking
settler - he ran off on a southerly course and
founded a city. Granary done, which inclided lux
up to 50, settler in 4. Looking at the map I get
the feeling that a ring of cities at distance 4
looks good: 2 tiles diagonally and 1 straight.
Settled down in leipzig.


no changes on the tech front.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_2630BC.SAV)

Sir Eric you are up now...

sorry there was no proper turn report: I have been sneaking turns at work and there was not much to report....

My Mrs needs the pc for an hour then I'll play my turns

Originally posted by carlosMM
sorry there was no proper turn report: I have been sneaking turns at work and there was not much to report....

Hey, this is the CarlosMM we know and love :D

I’m assuming that CarlosMM did 10 turns so I’ll start my turns as turn 31

Turn 31 (2630bc) Nothing happened

Turn 32 (2590bc) Moved both warriors in a southerly direction

Turn 33 (2550bc) Warrior uncovers Dye’s SE of Berlin, has fish near by should make for a good city placement. Berlin hits pop 4 and goes into civil disorder.

Turn 34 (2510bc) Nothing happened

Turn 35 (2470bc) Worker starts to mine cow near Liepzig.

Turn 36 (2430bc) Berlin makes settler, heads for Mel’s wheatfield NW of city. Next growth in 2 turns, set prod to settler. Liepzig makes warrior, set prod for another warrior

Turn 37 (2390bc) Nothing happened

Turn 38 (2350bc) Barb appears on NW border, 2 tiles away from settler. Sending warrior to play cat and mouse.

Turn 39 (2310bc) Discovered English town in the SW. Barbs appear close by.

Turn 40 (2270bc) Founded Hamburg, Vikings founded Copenhagen to our NE. Barbs threaten Capital and lone warrior. Settler to be built next turn in Berlin.

No new techs researched. 1 new city founded with another settler next turn. Land discovered south and west of us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/mellsg.png

Here is the save for Dr Alimentado..
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_2270BC.SAV

A quick note before I get to the turn;

Originally posted by Sir Eric

Turn 33 (2550bc) Warrior uncovers Dye’s SE of Berlin, has fish near by should make for a good city placement. Berlin hits pop 4 and goes into civil disorder.



did the city actually go into disorder? (as in we lost a turn of production) If so - well, you know there's no need at this stage for that to happen? We just need to check the cities at the end of every turn and adjust the lux slider if needed.

preturn -

berlin is about to make a settler, it is pop3 and needs 4 food to grow and is producing +3fpt... by MM berlin we can get +4fpt in berlin by working a grassland instead of the forest (the extra shield from the forest isnt needed at all this turn), or +5fpt by working all 3 cattle. For this turn I set berlin to work the 2 cattle plus a grassland (+4fpt) - this will still pop the settler but we will also grow too. We will then go 4->2 in pop. We really want to be going 5-->3 imo when we pop settlers, by working all 3 cattle we can get +5fpt for 4 turns plus 2x 7spt + 2x 8spt (once we have mined a BG), that will give us a settler every 4. Without the mined BG we can get a settler every 4 going 6-->4, does this make sense? I can explain better if needed :)

Lepzig has an entertainer! We shouldnt be using entertainers at all in the early game if it can be helped,we should adjust the lux slider instead as a few commerce is better to lose than the shields and food. I set the entertainer back to work and adjust the lux slider from 10% to 30% to make lepzig happy again - this gives us +3gold instead of +5gold, but that is far preferable to losing the food and shields in lepzig. I also change the spear build to warrior, a reg warrior does MP duty as well as a reg spear and thats likely all he'll get used for.

Hamburg has been founded ON a wheat bonus! This is bad... we will never ever get any benefit from that nice wheat now :( Just in case you don't know you should basically never found cities on any bonus except those that only give gold - food and shield bonuses are lost when a city sits on them.
Hamburg could have gone 1 tile E on the hill, it would then have been 3 tiles from Berlin (good for troop movement and dense build) and have had the wheat and game in it's first 9 tiles, plus plenty of BG in it's 21. Or (probably even better) it could have gone 2 tiles N 1 tile NW from berlin, getting the game and an incense in it's 9. A lux would be very useful to connect and thats the closest lux and food bonus city site to berlin, again 3 tiles away.

On city sites... I am kind of adverse to RCP ;) Now as it happens I think we will have some equal distance cities as they're the best spots but I really don't want us to be heading for a giant RCP ring! :D

We are going very very fast. It would have been (still is?) a good idea to discuss the city placement with a dotmap and also the other strategies. We should be aware that we have a nice mix of civ levels in our team :) We can all benefit a lot through discussions and especially the non-deity players!

aggie: (y)

Dr A: cna we get a huge screenie of the map?

here's a pic of the preturn:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/2270preturn.jpg

What to do with Hamburg... it has no food or shields in the box as of now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/dormap.jpg



suggestion for first ring

A pic to show the fish in the SW :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/melikiller2270preturn2a.jpg

I still think my spots are good, we should keep the fish for a town on all the plains there. Also, a tile further out will seriously up corruption ina city that will have nice tax income.


You all realize we will have to kill the Viks soon, anyways?

an alternative dotmap:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/melikiller2270preturn2b.jpg

there's a wheat in the SW plains (under the barb in a previous pic) so i say we use the fish in the dyetowns 21.

town on a lux means quicker connection and we get the gold anyway.

and I hate RCP ;)

okay.. I've officially got it ;)

I'll wait till later to play so everyone has a chance to chip in and discuss dotmaps and strategy.

broadly speaking... we do indeed need to go clobber the vikings asap. I reckon next town should hook up the incense in the North, hamburg can stay for the right now and do something like churn a warrior or two (or a warrior and settler in 20 to disband?) but no buildings in Hamburg because it has to go before long.

City sites are still very much up for discussion...

I don't hate RCP...part of CIV3 imvho. But not needed for SP. At least not for the pleasure of kicking some but.

Both dotmaps look decent to me, however in DrA's one I see that in the SE we miss out on a whale. His SW city looks better placed than CarlosMM's.

hehe... well lets not have the RCP debate here ;) We both agree it isn't needed to win a SP game anyway :)
I'm not adverse to having some equidistant cities if they fall that way, I just don't want us to plan a RCP ring.

I agree on the SE city being pushed a tile further SE to get the whale. What should be the next town founded and where? If folks are happy with it I would propose 3 tiles N from berlin on the incense. Killer's spot for the hamburg replacement city is better placed to give berlin more power later on too. And hamburg?... warrior then settler in 20? or warrior-worker in 10? or warrior+....?


I'll be playing this tonight sometime, about 9-10pm, so get your opinions in and I'll take careful note :D

okay.. it's late! I ended up being busy drinking this evening, so any big f#ckups or just my ****ty spelling and grammer you can blame on that ;) [personally I'm amazed I've managed to actually play AND write a log, wowzer!]

1 - (2270bc) MM cities as described in preturn post, adjust lux slider to 30%

IT- barb warrior dies attacking berlin

2- (2230bc) - berlin pops settler and is now pop2 and on +4fpt with 2 cows, i set it to build a warrior while it grows... we should have got its pop higher by now! its the only productive town but it needs more pop to do anything.

check diplo (should have done last turn...) england and vikings have wheel , I buy for 82gold +1gpt, we get horsies in berlins 9 (1 tile S on hill) yay! vikings and english also have horsies close by to them...

the warrior south of lapzig AUTOMOVES into lepzig, :O - luckily that is where i wanted it to do MP duty, but automoves are bad! no harm done but take note, thou shalt not pass on a turn in a SG with units automoving or workers automated - that way lies madness! I set lux slider back down to 10%


3 - (2190bc) - change warrior build in lepzig to racks, we have enough MP's and lepzig will be able to build horsies soon enough. warrior in S finds london, it is size1, looks like the english must be heading south as london is their most northern city.


4 - (2150bc) - build warrior in berlin, he heads west to head off any vikings coming towards hamburg. in diplo vikings have horses already connected...

5 - (2110bc) - found konigsburg on incense hill. the worker has finished roading the mine in lepzig and moves to connect up konigsburg to berlin and lepzig.

IT - Lizzie kicks us out of londons territory. (gaining us a move S - all planned ;) )

6 - (2070bc) - berlin and hamburg build warriors, lepzig builds racks and grows to size3. I send berlins xtra warrior to lepzig to be a 2nd MP now lepzig is size3 to keep lux slider down, set lepzig to build archer. berlin has 5 food in box... I reluctantly set berlin to work 2 cows and the horse hill to give us a worker in 2 (and growth in 2 at +3fpt) plus a gold... it's the least wasteful way I can work out to get the fpt and spt in synch for settler (or worker) production. also lepzig gets 2 turns of working the shared cow for an extra food and shield.
English have mysticism and alphabet over both us and vikings now.

IT - vikings move a warrior towards us, exploring likely. I see a viking settler moving SE from them (towards english) with the W warrior explorer.

7 - (2030bc) - scouting warrior in south finds another english city.

IT - barb appears NE of us...

8 - (1990bc) - berlin pops worker, I MM berlin to work the 3 cows for +5fpt +7spt - we are now set to build settlers in 4 (it says 5 but at 4 pop we will get 8spt... 7+7+8+8=30 ;) )
move new worker to connect up horses in berlin. english city in south is york and has jungle and mountains on the 3 sides I can see. silly silly AI...

IT - lizzie kicks our scouting warrior away from york (another free move into unexplored territory) - he ends up next to a warrior who attacks and dies :cool:

9 - (1950bc) - konigsberg builds warrior, I notice the barb near konigsberg has been joined by a friend... I leave konigsberg to build another reg warrior right now... it wont build for 4 so it can be changed if needed. worker on roading moves up to road last tile to connect incense up to berlin. The barbs in england have forced lizzies workers into london... hehe, I buy one for 40 gold +4gpt.

10 - (1910bc) - berlin grows to 4 (settler in2). one barb to our NE has vanished, the other has fortified... scardy cat barbs. I move lux slider to 20% to make berlin content now its size 4. worker starts connecting last road to konigsberg for the lux.


Now we can see a bit more of the viking and english territory, we have 4 cities, enough warriors to be MP's (9), 2 workers and a slave. horses will be connected in 4 turns. lux will be connected in 3 turns. and there are barbs hovering in the NE. Nearest water appears to be London :O The builds can be changed... except i recomend we get the settler out in 2!


The 1910bc SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_1910BC.sav)

hmm... can i be arsed to do piccies at 3 am?


our still-humble-but-will-be-mighty empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/melikiller1910.jpg

the zoomout showing what we know of the world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/melikiller1910zoomout.jpg


so.... next city spot? general plan is build lots of horsies and kick vikings hard I think.

Jack - your up :D

Sorry it seems that I have made a few mistakes in my turn.

Emporer level is new to me and I am still only playing my first few games on it so I am not familiar with the strategies that you guys use or even some of the basics set out by Dr Alimentado in his post.

Hamburg has been founded ON a wheat bonus! This is bad... we will never ever get any benefit from that nice wheat now Just in case you don't know you should basically never found cities on any bonus except those that only give gold - food and shield bonuses are lost when a city sits on them.

Not somethng that I was away of, but I should have been.
Dr A's post was very imformative and helpful.
I didn't read it as he was having a go at me but that it merely showed up my inexperience at this level of play and that I need to better understand the mechanics of it before playing succession games at emporer level.
My whole playing style is not up to the level that you guys play at and I feel that if I continue in this game then I would be holding you guys back.
I hereby offer my position in the game to someone more experienced then myself, that can contribute to the success of the glorious German Empire.
If I continue in the game I would feel like I was not contributing and that I was being carried by the rest.
I dont like stepping away from a challenge but I do know when I am getting in the way.

I will continue to follow the progress of this game so I can learn some more from you guys as you play.

Sir Eric, I understand that you feel bad about your turn after reading DrA's remarks. I recognise it from my first SG.

To me SG's are about fun and learning a thing or two. The fun is that you are part of a team and that as a team you try to achieve certain goals. Learning usually comes in from discussion before and after someone's turn.

The moment that I saw the sign ups for this one, I knew that it was a nice mix of civ-skills. I'm sure that the rest of the team understands that as well. So that's why I asked for a bit more discussion. Especially at the start of the game this is very important.

I can understand that you offer your position. But please don't feel discouraged. SG's are a great way to learn a lot about playing civ (if that's your goal - you could also be perfectly happy on your own level). You could join -or organise- a regent or monarch level game. Then you have a team of people with about the same level. I am happy to have you in this SG though.

Playing CIV on higher levels is NOT rocket science. We merely know more basic rules than you do. You could improve your knowledge by reading a couple of articles in the war academy. A very good one is the 'improve your opening skills' by Cracker. Another valuable one is 'Babylon's deity settlers' by Bamspeedy.

Sir Eric, please stay in! If only the very best experts play togaether it will be boring for them, if the teams are mixed, all can have fun and learn (and you won't believe what screups even the most experienced players are capable of fabricating!!!!!)

Please stay!

CarlosMM's remark is - in essence- what I mean as well. :D

Got it & playing.

I second the request you stay in, Sir Eric :).

Sir Eric?

You cannot leave and that is an order ;)

I second all the others said...

In fact I think I made a slight miscalculation in my turns when I left a citizen on Berlin on Forest for 6 turns when we were size 3.

Also my first SG I got roasted nicely numerous times for what I know now are basic errors.

Melifluous

I also gave him a good verbal licking on MSN and he agreed to see this as bootcamp! ;)

Ok It looks like I have no choice but to stay in and keep playing :)
Thanks for being understanding fellas.

If I can second Aggie's suggestion of discussing upcoming strategies, goals etc that would be very helpful. :)

Originally posted by carlosMM
Sir Eric, please stay in! If only the very best experts play togaether it will be boring for them, if the teams are mixed, all can have fun and learn (and you won't believe what screups even the most experienced players are capable of fabricating!!!!!)

Please stay!
Originally posted by Sir Eric
If I can second Aggie's suggestion of discussing upcoming strategies, goals etc that would be very helpful. :)
The resulting added discussion is more fun for lurkers too.;) And always helps others learn along with you Sir Eric.:goodjob: Good luck. It sounds like you've found a good group to play with on your first Emporer SG.

Inherited turn: We are researching Horseback Riding ? OK......... Wake up the warrior in Leipzig and send him to Berlin to accompany the settler. Swap Konigsberg to barracks.

1870 BC (1) Leipzig produces archer, starts another. Archer will go barb-hunting. Lizzie kicks out our warrior, she's annoyed. The Vikings found Reykjavik close to where our Western dot would be.

1830 BC (2) Berlin builds settler - after some consideration, I decide to sneak out a worker . We're running a 1 gold deficit now so some extra roads should come in handy. I don't want to provoke the Vikes until we're ready to the settler goes NE.

1790 BC (3) 2 barb warriors show up - our archer goes elite killing one of them. Incense comes online so lux rate can go down to 10%.

1750 BC (4) Berlin builds worker, starts barracks.

1725 BC (5) I'm sure something happened here but it wasn't very memorable or else I might have remembered it :D.

1700 BC (6) Leipzig archer - worker (growth in 3, worker in 3). Konigsberg barracks - archer. Frankfurt founded as per DrA's dotmap next to the wheats.

1675 BC (7) Berlin barracks - settler (the cycle is a bit off here now, sorry). We meet the Aztecs to the south. They have masonry & lack pottery, but are unwilling to trade anything more than 40 gold for pottery and masonry is no deal, ever. I take the 40 gold.

1650 BC (8) Hamburg completes settler but I forgot to set food surplus to zero - should disband next turn. Berlin MM'd to get settler in 3, growth in 3.

1625 BC (9) Hamburg disbanded - after some consideration, I decide to move it 1 E onto the hill as per the dotmap, which will give it at least the wheat and a BG to work with (Königsberg is working the game now). Leipzig builds worker, starts chariot. Königsberg also set to chariot (for later horsey upgrade, obviously).

1600 BC (10) Found Hamburger Neubau (it would have been named München but moving Hamburg only one tile only to get a city about 700kms away seemed a bit much). It starts on a barracks.

Berlin will build a settler next turn- it can go either for an agressive settlement next to the dyes or fill in the last spot to the east and then go for military % worker farming - it can hit 10spt which eventually means archers in 2 and horses in 3 turns. I think a settlement near the dyes first is probably best, and may also be a good FP site eventually.
Don't skimp on the workers - fresh water is a long way away and south of the English lands there is a currently impenetrable range of mountains and jungles, which will need lots of worker attention eventually. We have 4 workers and a slave now, but will need more. The forest game between Hamburger Neubau and Königsberg can be cleared still but I'd do some more mining next to Leipzig first.
There may be a 2fer available with mysticism and masonry, but I didn't like the prices. My suggestion would be to just grab the missing techs with pointy stick.

Our lands: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK_lands.jpg

and .the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_1600BC.sav)

Jack, nice play!


excerpt from or chat:

Jack Merchant: we *will* have our work cut out for is with the way this continent looks.
Henry: I agree on pointy stick, we need writing (to open the door to all the follows), but not much else!
Henry: oh, FP slightly to the west of Palace (Neubau)
Henry: then palace jump(s) to whereever needed
Jack Merchant: yep !
Jack Merchant: that would be my suggestion
Henry: that should do nively! we will not have two front wars after all



then, we can build up troops, take some land south, go to peace again and build infra.
rinse and repeat.
Jack rightly says Vikings first, then south.

I would suggest doing a bit of alternating war between Viks and one civ south to enhance our pointy stick chances.

Got it.

Sir Eric, as you see it is not that difficult to correct things. We replaced Hamburg and there's not THAT much harm done. We simply lost a couple of turns of production with that city.

Seems you guys got a dry start : do you have line of sight on an irrigation line ?

Our core is actually completely sealed off from irrigation by the line of hills - good thing it's all grass ! The closest river is about 10 tiles removed from the lower left-hand corner of the map above.

There is ONE tile through which irrigation can pass totally to the South, right above the fish.
You'll need to get rid of the Vikes first though :D

We can also settle on a hill and then the water can flow form west to east. Right?

Aggie's right, if we settle a hill we can get irrigation through to our core;

I've tried to irrigate through a hill city. It doesn't work.

I believe it was patched somewhere and I also remember that we did it in LK54. I'll re-read it to see if I'm wrong though.

EDIT: It was confirmed by Sirian there. We never had to try though.

I testede it, must have been poatched as it does work now !

goddam server just ate my reply :cry: I'll try again...

Sir Eric, I'm glad your staying in :) My comments weren't meant to discourage, just to point out what I thought could be improved on.

We could all do with discussing strats and moves, I intend to learn from others in this game and that can only happen when we discuss beforehand and critique afterwards. This is my first SG too, so I am keen to get into the team spirit thing rather than just do my thing as I would in a normal game.

Jack - nice moves. I would have held off building a racks in berlin until we want to pump mil from it though, just seems like a waste to build it before then.

I'm not worried about the viks and lizzie, they seem to have crappy starts compared to us. I just hope the other AI really are boosted! Not to say it will be a walk over but I expect us to crush the 2 of them if we do things sensibly :D

xploits and stuff... do we need palace jump? I have never used it myself, just seems wrong somehow...

Originally posted by carlosMM
I testede it, must have been poatched as it does work now !
Yeah, my only experience was with 1.14. I haven't tried it since. Guess I should rethink city placement and irrigation routes (again).

DrA: There's also something like Palace Rushing with a leader. I assume (and hope) that they mean that in the chat.

Of course - you know I wouldnn't even use RCP if my life (or more pertinently, my ladder standings) depended on it ;). And palace jumping is at least as exploitative IMHO..

We are the militaristic Germans - we will get tons of leaders.

I meant building the FP from scratch, then jumping the Palace with a leader to generate two seperate cores. Otherwise, we waste a lot of produciton and tax from conquered lands or sit around waiting for a leader forever only to have the FP city flip once we get a leader :(

Just a friendly roster reminder :

1) - Melifluous
2) - CarlosMM
3) - Sir Eric
4) - DrAlimentado
5) - Jack Merchant
6) - Aggie ---- UP NOW
7) - WildFire ---- on deck

I hope that this write-up clarifies my actions well enough. If not, please ask :)

IHT: I micromanage Berlin to grow a tiny bit faster but still finish the settler in one. We are doing very very well. We are 2nd in mfg good and productivity this early in the game already!

Turn 1 (1575 BC) Berlin: settler->settler. The settler goes to the dyes spot. Our southermost warrior spots a new border.

Turn 2 (1550 BC) Königsberg: chariot->chariot. We meet China.

China wants to pay us for peace, so we get a discount on masonry: 20 turns of peace plus masonry for 44 gold. I'm not going to try the peace-deal trick with England. They are our neighbours. But they give us alphabet, 89 gold for masonry. The Vikings give us Mysticism for Masonry and 13 gold. We give Mysticism and 15 gold to the Aztecs for Iron Working. We now are technologically advanced :D And we have iron just east of Hamburger Neubau.

IT: The Aztecs start the Oracle.

Turn 3 (1525 BC) :sleep:

Turn 4 (1500 BC) Frankfurt: worker->barracks.

Turn 5 (1475 BC) Berlin: settler->settler. Gotta love a 4-turn settler factory :love: Leipzig: chariot->chariot. Heidelberg founded. Starts with a warrior (next should be worker and then a temple or -if available- a library imho). Settler goes south-east to the whale spot. Luxury down to 0% because Berlin is 2 pop smaller. Our warrior enters Chinese land in an attempt to go even more south. The Aztecs and English know Writing and Spain. I buy contacts with Spain for 53 gold from the Aztecs. Lovely Isabella 'knows nothing' :undecide:

Turn 6 (1450 BC) Leipzig grows to size 5 and now luxury goes from 0% to 20%.

IT: The Vikings demand 23 gold. Normally I would be careful and give it, but I believe that our military is strong enough to fight them. I refuse and the Vikings are cowards. Be aware though: they may attack us very soon! The Celts finish the worthless Oracle in Entremont (obsolete too soon).

Turn 7 (1425 BC) Königsberg: chariot->chariot.

Turn 8 (1400 BC) Nürnberg founded southeast near whales. Starts with warrior.

IT: The Vikings finish the Colossus in Trondheim.

Turn 9 (1375 BC) Berlin: settler->settler. Leipzig: chariot->chariot. All others now know Writing and Horseback Riding. I decide to switch to Mathematics and hope that we will get it before all the others. This is a bit late, but who knows.

Turn 10 (1350 BC) Heidelberg: warrior->worker.

We are almost finished with our first expansion phase (the peaceful one...), but maybe interesting to know anyway: to profit from our 4-turns settler factory in Berlin, we should do the following in micromanaging:
- When a settler is built, be sure to maximise food production but still build a settler in 4. I always had to move a laborer from the horses to the roaded bonus grass spot.
- The next turn: no micromanagement needed
- The third turn: Berlin grows and again we must maximise food and move the laborer from the horses to the unroaded bonus grass spot. Now Berlin will grow in 2 and also finsh a settler in 2. That is the trick, because when the settler is built we can just replay this scenario.

Some questions/remarks:
-We have a settler going to the north-east. Should we settle on the hill or just west of it?
-I suggest to have one more town, west of Hamburger Neubau
-Let's now build up our troops by building chariots, then get Horseback Riding, mass upgrade to horsemen and attack the Vikings :hammer: To mass-upgrade we need barracks and a lot of money, so maybe buying technology should be avoided from now on...

1350 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-1350BC.zip)

Nice trading (especially on the peace renegotiation deal :D ) but why did you throw away the progress on HBR ? How long did it have to go ? I know it isn't a very expensive tech so we can buy it fairly cheaply, but IIRC it would have had only ten turns to go and we could have used the extra money to upgrades.....

There was probably a good reason but I'm just confused ;).

We still had 14 turns to go and everyone had it. Given the fact that it only costs us 60 gold or so, I figured that it was a waste. I should have switched sooner, but didn't want to be harsh and veto the HBR from the start (after the trade).

Hey !
Where's Wildfire when you need him :lol: ?
;)

Around...

Alright! Sup!

Preturn- Look over the civ and the map and looks set to go!

Turn 1 (1325) - Konigsberg à chariot à chariot. Not much going on.

Turn 2 (1300) – zzzz

Turn 3 (1275) – Nurnberg à warrior à barracks. Leipzeg à chariot à spearman. They are now a 6 so I made it so they have entertainer. Cologne founded on the hill. Berlin à settler à chariot. Going to settle to the west of Hamburger.

Turn 4 (1250) – zzz

Turn 5 (1225) – Konigsberg à Chariot à Chariot. Chinese are making the Pyramids.

Turn 6 (1200) – Berlin à Chariot à chariot. Leipzig à Spearman à Chariot. Connecting to dyes down south.

Turn 7 (1175) – Frankfurt à barracks à worker. Got around Spain and see that they have iron in capitol’s influence.

Turn 8 (1150) – Berlin à Chariot à Chariot. Hamburger à Spearman à Temple. Greeks made the Pyramids in the city of Athens :(. Moved the settler farther north and will settle on the Vikings border.

AI movement- Vikings moved two spearman and a settler off of Copenhagen…

Turn 9 (1125) – Leipzig à Chariot à Chariot. Same for Konigsberg. Hannover settler. Berlin is a 6 and not in disorder.

AI- Vikings moved one spearman back to city and the other two are going west.

Turn 10 (1100) – Berlin à chariot à chariot. Besides that not much happened.

Some pics.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Mksg.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MKsgmilitary.JPG


And the save :)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-1100BC1.SAV


I took so long, CFC logged me out. Glad I typed it on word because when I went back, it was gone ;)

Wildfire, is that a 'got it'?

:scan:
Need....more....workers !

Nice set of turns Wildfire :) We indeed need more workers. And those chariots look nice in the picture this way, but they should be placed in a city where we can upgrade them to horsemen :hammer: I assume that we have more than enough cash to upgrade.

I see no need for a temple in Hamburger Neubau by the way. Heidelberg could need one to prevent cultural pressure from the Vikings, but that said: within a couple of years the Vikings will be speaking German :lol:

Is your Incense connected ?

I would build a Temple in Hamburg Neubau - then get it going on the FP! Who know when we get a leader!

Good playing, WF :D

Originally posted by carlosMM
I would build a Temple in Hamburg Neubau - then get it going on the FP! Who know when we get a leader!

Good playing, WF :D

You are right CarlosMM. I didn't think of it.

@Sky: indeed, they are not connected yet I see.

got it

melifluous

go get them, meli!

I did something smart...? :crazyeye:

So when we attacking the vikings?

We will attack the Vikings as soon as we have ugraded the chariots to horsemen. At least I hope wewill attack them then :hammer:

konigsberg is on an incense so we do have it connected.

PreTurn (1100BC) - MM-Shields in Berlin(10spt) and Liepzig(11spt) to even them out. Will switch to 10spt next turn to get even production. Lux to 30% to get rid of the dang entertainer in Liepzig. Please use lux and not entertainers when our cities aint gonna get above size 6.

Turn 01 (1075BC) - Liepzig chariot -> chariot. All chariots in the field sent to Hamburger, except one which scouts the border between us and the vikings. Hamburger is nearest the front and has a barracks. MM Berlin and Leipzig so they get 10spt and no loss of food. Check Diplo, Vikings have Maths monopoly, dangit.

Turn 02 (1050BC) - Berlin Chariot -> worker. Konigsberg switched to spear to free the Chariot there.

Turn 03 (1025BC) - Berlin worker -> settler. Lets get ready to fill any gaps ;) Liepzig chariot -> chariot. Konigsberg spear -> spear. Nurnberg barracks -> spear. Buy HBR from Spain for 6gpt and 10gold. We upgrade 13 chariot to horsemen. We have 4 gold and 0 gpt. :eek:

Turn 04 (1000BC) - Horsemen move within range of Bergen which obligingly has grown to size 2 :)

Turn 05 ( 975BC) - Heidelberg barracks -> spear. Demand Maths from Vikings. They decline, we declare war. We lose a Vet horse to a reg spear in Bergen promoting it, next horse does no damage and retreats, lose the next horse and redline the spear, next horse takes Bergen, we have Gems ;) Chariot in the north take two vikings workers, also chariot may draw troops outta Trondheim. Other horses pile into Bergen, starts spear.

IT - Vikings move a warrior/settler pair and a spear/settler pair near Bergen, offering us targets huh?

Turn 06 ( 950BC) - Berlin settler -> horseman. Resistance in Bergen ends. Leipzig horse -> horse. 2 wounded horse fortify in Bergen. Horse attacks spear covering settler and kills it without loss of hp and claims two workers. Horse attacks warrior/settler pair in mountains and gets another 2 workers ;) Stack of 8 horse sit outside the gates of Trondheim. Everyone except Aztecs have Maths.

Turn 07 ( 925BC) - Konigsberg spear -> horseman. Check that Trond aint on a hill, its on a Cow? Wierdos. Wait for another horse.

Turn 08 ( 900BC) - Cologne barracks -> horse. Horse -> trond, no loss, elite, dead spear. Horse -> Trond, 2hp loss, elite, dead spear. Horse -> Trond, 1hp loss, dead spear, captured City. Hey! It has the Collosus yay! Start Temple. Horse attacks Copenhagen, retreats no effect. Chariot attacks Copenhagen, 1hp left, kills spear.

Turn 09 ( 875BC) - Liepzig horseman -> Palace (pre-build). Lux dropped to 20%. Scientist ordered in Leipzig. Science to 0%. Vet Horse attacks Stockholm, does 2hp damage to a spear and retreats. Elite attacks, 1hp damage, retreats. Vet attacks, redlines spear, dies. Vet attacks, takes no damage, kills spear, Elite. 3hp Elite attacks, is redlined and kills the spear. We destroy Stockholm. Injured horses seek refuge in Trondheim. The rest ride on towards Oslo (New Viking Capital). At the end of the turn the Dyes come online and we Drop Lux to 0% and keep the scientist in Leipzig.

Turn 10 ( 850BC) - Berlin horse -> horse. Hamburger temple -> granary (pre-build for FP if we can get it available in 9 turns) Upgrade Chariot in Heidelberg. Road between Capital and Bergen completes Gems are online. Turn off research altogether, we can extort Maths from the Vikings.

And I'll leave some workers for Killer to play with ... Our situation looks much better now.

We have 14 workers (7 of which are slaves)
11 warriors (iron still not attached)
2 archers
4 spears
1 chariot and 14 horsemen.
1 settler in Bergen.

We have 5 horses ready to attack Oslo (New Viking Capital) next turn.

NEXT!

Melifluous

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_850BC.sav)

Originally posted by Melifluous
Our situation looks much better now.

We were in great shape and now our situation looks better [dance]

Why do you have all the fun Meli? ;)

And now for some good old pointy-stick: leave the Vikings withone city, demand everything they have (techs, gold) and then kill them 20 turns later...honourably :D

EDIT: I assume that we are going to move Trondhiem off the cattle?

EDIT2: And then next up is England. A pathetic civ with no horses :hammer:

Originally posted by Aggie

Why do you have all the fun Meli? ;)



Cos its my SG :p

Also WF left me in a fantastic position to start this war now.
We had loads of gold (enough for 13 upgrades), enough gpt for HBR and lots of chariots :p

:goodjob: Wildfire ;)

Melifluous

Originally posted by Aggie
I assume that we are going to move Trondhiem off the cattle?


Originally posted by Melifluous
Hey! It has the Collosus yay!

@CF: Why are you always right? :cry: :p

What? I didn't say anything?:king:

Sorry aggie for leaving Meli with such a good chance to attack ;)

No pics of the war Meli?

nice :hammer: meli :) but where are the nice shiny pics!?


killer's up next so I will be expecting the vikes to go 1CC pretty dam quick... ;)

hehe, thanx for trusting me DrA!

got it

CarlosMM: Could you please write a report in such a way that Sir Eric can follow in your footsteps? I think it will be very good for him to understand your moves.

aggie: as I will be playing in my off time I can promise to do so easily :D

(preturn): Oh yes, meli must have had some fun ;)

Horsemen leave Bergen: if it flips we can retake it right away. Nürnberg goes to a Temple - once it expands it can use the whale!

(1) A warrior leaving Reykjavik dies to our valiant Horseman
Oslo is ours, forcing 1 retreat only. I do not like the way the Vik cities are spread at all - they miss the whale! Maybe we can move them both....

We learn to write and count now, also, the Vikings concede Birka to us (it is hard to get to with all the hills). There is a barb two moves from Birka - ouch!

Why peace now? We would either have to buy Writing, then extort the Viks out of all the follow ons or we do it piecemeal, with alternating war. So it is a good idea to let the Viks keep enough cities (size 1) that we can extort them again soon!

(2) Bremen fills the gap in the north, but only after a horse kills a babr. We also get 25 Gold but have to deal with 2 barbs on the mountain now. They easily die to horses.
Frankfurt starts a settler.
Hambrug neubau starts the FP. Workers hurry there to mine all tiles.

(3) the idiot barb attacked the town of Aarhus and dies - Birka still is empty :hmm:

Our main towns will continue to pump out Horses except for Königsberg, which will supply Spoears to the new and taken towns.

Our Hosres start to meet north of England to make the Brits teach us some crafts :D

(4) moves moves moves.... We can place two Horses on the British Iron next turn and attack Canterbury. The have another iron, but that may not be connected yet!

(5) The two Spears in Canterbury kill 1 Horse and make another retreat. We win the next two fights and capture 39 Gold.
I move a Horse next to the British iron and spot a worker team on the cow. Instead of going for the iron with both horses (almost guaranteeing a cut of the road next turn) I decide to capture the two workers and move 1 Horse to the iron. One of the workers goes home, the other south (sppedbump and spy).

(6) Frankfurt settler - Temple.
The English iron is cut, next turn, 4 Horses can attack Nottingham. The horse that grabbed the workers moves south, so does the worker - no troops in sight :D

(7) a Sword from London retreats our Horse. the attack on Nottingham goes badly, too. We lose an elite Horse and a vet one, in the end, a 1 HP Spear is left in the town :mad:

(8) Nottingham Spear kills another vet Horse, but an elite kills him. the town is ours.
The annoying Sword is killed (I wanted to take a few HP off but the Horse came allt he way throguh :D)

(9) moves

(10) :lol: :lol: :lol: I knew the Ais are dumb, but now guess who join Lizzy in her war against us? In this, they also broke the 2 per turn they had to pay....

1 retreat, 1 dead and Reykjavik is ours.
the Brits will now talk, but not quite give us a tech. I decide not to compromise....

I kill an archer that could retake Rezkjavik with two Spears :(

the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-610BC.SAV

Nice set of turns CarlosMM, great write-up :D

A few questions for the team:
- we have a settler near Reykjavik, where is it going?
- What is the palace build in Leipzig meant for? The Great Library?
- Should we try to take one more city from England and the Vikings and then get techs for peace again?

nicely done killer! I was worried for a minute you weren't going to live up to my expectations of leaving the vikes with 1 city but you came through in the end ;) hehe, Ragnar played nicely into our hands too - stupid stupid vikings :lol:

and I admit to a grudging respect for Nottingham holding out so long, but hey, it is my hometown after all :D


still no pics though... grumble grumble... guess I'll just have to load the turn up and take a look.

wow! i didnt realise our continent was so big.

I know posting pics is a slight pain up the proverbial but it really makes it a lot easier to follow whats going on, so pretty please can we try and post a minimap and the odd pic or two with our turns :D


ok team, in addition to aggies's points i'd like to add:

research is currently on 0% (and no scientist even!) We can get Mapmaking and CoL from the english with pointystick but shouldn't we be max researching to something else? (lit?) maybe not... but I'd like to see the reasoning and/or plan if we aren't doing that :)

and why isn't the iron hooked up? - could be to allow warrior builds for MP's or could be just because we were in a hurry to mine up hamburger... without knowing why we wont know whether it should be roaded asap though ;)

plan? my rough thoughts:
hurt the english until they give us everything they have. (a city or two should do it)
max research lit (on 70% @-1gpt we get it in 13) - or maybe philosophy or another and hope to trade it (should leave us enough time to research lit in time for the prebuild)
go for GL with the prebuild.
build LOTS of workers.
kill everyone on our continent.
take over the world.
err... thats it.

thoughts?

Some pre-turn pics........

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/cattle_ai1.png

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/cattle_ai2.png

Pre-turn questions

I would like to discuss these points already made plus a few of my own at the bottom before starting my turns.

Originally posted by Aggie
few questions for the team:
- we have a settler near Reykjavik, where is it going?
- What is the palace build in Leipzig meant for? The Great Library?
- Should we try to take one more city from England and the Vikings and then get techs for peace again?


Originally posted by Dr Alimentado
research is currently on 0% (and no scientist even!) We can get Mapmaking and CoL from the english with pointystick but shouldn't we be max researching to something else? (lit?) maybe not... but I'd like to see the reasoning and/or plan if we aren't doing that

Lit can be gotten in 11 turns at 80% with 10% lux but with losing 10 gpt or research at 90% in 9 turns with 18gpt loss. If we get the GL we automatically get MM and CoL.

and why isn't the iron hooked up? - could be to allow warrior builds for MP's or could be just because we were in a hurry to mine up hamburger... without knowing why we wont know whether it should be roaded asap though

Spain and Aztecs have iron hooked up. China dont have access to it at the moment. We will need it if we are going to war with them. Can I hook it up ASAP?

nicely done killer! I was worried for a minute you weren't going to live up to my expectations of leaving the vikes with 1 city but you came through in the end hehe

The Vikings have 2 cities left. Aarhuss in the western mountains. SIze 1 with gems and no wet resources. Copenhagen (size 1 capital) in the east with horses, and Dyes when they expand.
Do we want to to take Aarhus or Cope? Cope has the better chance of biting us in the bum when we least expect it. It is more useful for the Vik's.

There are 3 workers in Hamburger that are fortified, can I use these or are they there for pop rushing? (I dont like to pop rush but I will if that is the plan).

What about building a Galley as soon as MM is extorted?

Next tech after Lit, Republic or monarchy? Or something else?

@Killer
I dont understand the build orders for the cities east and south of Hamburger. Could you fill me in so I dont ruin everyones hard work?


Pre-turn plan
Continue the assualt on the English
Hook up iron
Build roads to the English front
Establish research priorities,

I'll wait for 24 hours for discussion then play the turn.

Edit: Grammar

Originally posted by Sir Eric
Lit can be gotten in 11 turns at 80% with 10% lux but with losing 10 gpt or research at 90% in 9 turns with 18gpt loss. If we get the GL we automatically get MM and CoL.


Could be we don't need the lux slider at all here - although generally it is much better to use the lux slider than an entertainer here is an exception: the only entertainer we need is in canterbury and the slider would have to go to 50% to make them content, thats too much lost commerce for a single worker in a crappy city imo.
There is also an entertainer set in nottingham currently but this is a mistake as it is not needed, they will be content working with the lux slider on 0%.

I agree on going for Lit at max sci and -gpt, we have >500 gold and can afford to run at a deficit for 9 turns no prob.




Originally posted by Sir Eric
Spain and Aztecs have iron hooked up. China dont have access to it at the moment. We will need it if we are going to war with them. Can I hook it up ASAP?


Left to my own devices I wouldn't build swords for our up and coming wars to the south at all :) I think horses are a much better bet, because they retreat and because they upgrade to more useful units. You need more of them, but swords are slow and upgrade to slow units. I would also leave the iron unconnected just to get warriors for MP duty in newly conquered cities, then connect it when we get fuedalism for pikes. The others may well disagree with me here though :D

dam, I can't believe I missed the 2nd vike city! killer, you dissapoint me :p I don't know if the vikings have got anything left to extort from them, maybe not - in which case just wipe em out I reckon. Cope should definitely go first in either case though.

I don't think the workers in hamburg were fortified, looks to me like they have just moved there (maybe from mining the iron hill?). We can't pop-rush in hamburg anyway as its building FP, and those workers are slaves (bad for adding to pop as they make foreign nationals rather than full citizens), imo they should be put to useful tasks.

I agree on extorting MM and getting a few galleys out asap, this is top priority - If we get first contact from our continent we might well get to do a bonanza trading round of communications/maps and techs :D

We should go for Republic rather than Monarchy, we will need philosophy first though so maybe we should go for that after Lit.

1) research is zero as I didn't want to take a scientist off somewhere or sepnd money as long as it was not clear who had what tech.

2) the workers got fortified at end turn when I moved a spear IIRC and refortified the leftover troops - my mistake.

3) the Palace (prebuild) was too far along for me to change it to something usefull. I think we should simply keep it and try to get whatever wonder we can with it. Remember the AIs on the second continent should be fairly strong!

4) Literature: we should be able to stay at war and eliminate both England and the Vikings (leader fishing, too), but extort both techs from the English now. No need to hurry for Great Lib atm I think.

5) the iron: unhooked up, the iron will most certainly not run out. So I didn't hook the one contributing to the FP up. As for the rest: we do very well with out Horses atm, the southern Civs are too far for a Swordsmen attack - why hook up the iron in a hurry?

Sir Eric, what is the status? I don't think that we have strict SG-rules (24 hours got it, 48 hours to play), but it has been three days now.

it appears Sir Eric is away or unable - I do not get PBEM turns from him.

he is hereby skipped.


DrA: you are up!

[apologie]
Sorry this weekend has been unusually very busy for me. Everytime I got online I was interrupted or I could have played it, but at 2am without my fullest attention.
I have actually played 7 turns. I just didn't have enough time to finish the other 3.
My weekends arent' normally so busy and had I foreseen that I was going to be busy all weekend I would have let everyone know but things just came up at the last moment.... Sorry
Also when I played the turns we got a GL.
I'll finish off my other 3 turns and if you want me to post it then I will.

in the nick of time....... :D

if you cannot play, at least post a 'got it' ;) No problem if you cna play less and then take a day more, but if we hear nothing at all we start to worry......

@Sir Eric: good to 'hear' from you again :D

Originally posted by Sir Eric

Also when I played the turns we got a GL.


:D

carry on Sir Eric!

Ok here it is....

Turn 1 - Vet Horse attacks warrior south of Nottingham and becomes Elite.
Moved horses in postion above Hastings. Berlin builds Horse -> Horse

Turn 2 - Elite Horse kills English warrior near Nottingham. We capture Hastings, but loose 2 vet horses in the process…. And get our first GL!!. [party] I rename the victorious horse Sir Killsalot. GL goes to Hiedelberg to have a ‘we are the champions’ party.

Turn 3 - Celts build great wall :( Elite horse kills Vik warrior near Aarhus

Turn 4 - Berlin horse -> horse. Chinese galley goes sailing past :(

Turn 5 - Copenhagen is destroyed :)Settler is headed for the square NE of it so we can take advantage of the whale.
Attack on London goes bad. They have killed 2 of our horses and we needed another 2 to take it. Extorted MM and Philosopy from the Vikings for peace. Changed prod in Nurnberg and Frankfurt to produce our first 2 galleys next turn. We got CoL + worker + 200gold form the English for peace :)Research is set to 100% Lit in 9 turns with a loss of 12gpt. But with 960 gold in the bank it won't be a problem.

Turn 6 - Hiedelberg makes horse -> Galley. Nurmberg makes Galley -> spearman. Frankfurt makes galley -> spearman.

Turn 7 - Bergan Temple ->spearman. Berlin Horse to Spearman

Turn 8 - Moved workers around.

Turn 9 - Berlin -> spearman. Nottinghm warrior -> spearman. Frankfurt Spearman -> galley. FP built in Hamburger Neaubau.-> spearman. Hannover spearman -> Warrior. Thebes built the Great Lighthouse :( Stuttgart founded, building warrior.

Turn 10 Konigsberg horseman -> spearman. Bremen spearman -> harbour (?)

End of turns. Lit in 3 turns. 890 gold minus 13gpt.

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-410BC.SAV

[resident warmonger]

Huh? :confused:

We made peace with English AND Vikings?

The Vikings are still alive?

I want him DEAD, I want his family DEAD, I want his house burnt to the GROUND, I want you to ride me over there so I can pass on the ashes.
[/resident warmonger]

Only Joking

Good stuff Sir Eric (can I just call you Eric?), we have a GL :love: we have some Galleys :hmm: (not to my taste, but hey what do I know)

I want some good honest :hammer:

Melifluous

Eric's fine ( although my isn't really Eric at all).

The english have some units near our territory so I dont imagine it will be long until we are at war with them again.

The only change to our terrtory is Hastings so I didn't worry about posting a picture as it's pretty much the same as the other one I posted before my turns.

The biggest prob I had was what to build next. I tried to get some warriors and spearmen for upgrades for the next phase of battle.

good call on keeping the leader in store! Also, good call on the peace! We want to be able to go to war and get leaders, if we hold on to the leader fighting now would be dumb. This way, it will only be 8 turns of waiting after rushing the Great Library until we can fight again!!!!

Good set of turns Sir Eric :D I see that we have a lot of spears to be finished next turn. I suggest to switch to temples and then to libraries once we have Literature (in 3). This is the cheapest way to expand our culture borders and also allows us to research better.

Next improvement after the library should be marketplaces (starting with pre-builds for them). They provide us income and hapiness. Harbours are also great improvements for us, a military civ (cheaper!!).

Hastings has a lot of horses. This city is at risk of a culture flip (close to London). So we'd better move some troops out of the town.

Leipzig is very far with the palace (in 19). Is Hanging Gardens a good wonder?

EDIT: Sir Eric, see this as a remark you can learn from ;). 6 cities have entertainers. All of them can do without them. Berlin, for example, has three happy and three unhappy citizens. As long as we have at least as much happy people as unhappy ones, the cities will not riot.

Hanging Gardens will be very good! If for some reason there is a tech jump we may be able to change for SunTzus or so, too ;) How far is Great Library handbuild from Leipzig? If it is very close and we have a monopoly we can even consider keepin the leader for something else ;)

I already looked at the prebuild for The Great Library. I believe that we have about 220 shields produced atm (400 needed). Seems like too few shields to take the risk with this important wonder. Hanging Gardens need 300 shields

I agree, aggie!

Got it.

No time to play right now, (ronnie o'sullivan is about to play in the snooker :p) but I should be able to play later tonight :)

Is everyone happy if I build horses instead of swords? I tend to build relatively few spears either and rely on hitting the enemy before they hit us.

do we need/want temples everywhere? they are expensive and cheap libs are better for expanding the 21 imo. If we can get by with luxes for happiness I would say temples are an extravagence - espeically as our cities are 6pop max for a while yet.

One thing we need badly is a ton of workers, we only have 7 workers and 10 slaves, I would like to have about 20-30 so I'll make an effort to pump workers asap.

Oh, and embassies, we are flush so I will get embassies with the AI (not eng or vikes) now.

and what should we be researching after Lit?

DrA, see my previous posts for my point of view ;)

BUT: once we have TGL, we can ask ourselves: why research? I'd still go for currency and republic though.

DrA: why research after Lit? ew will have the Great Library then! It is time to infrastructure like hell, as I do not see us attack any of the other nations soon. We will kill of Lizzy and Ragnar, maybe even go border trashing down south (leaders anyone?), but it is time to get libs, then workers workers workers, then markets and aqueducts!

carlosMM: you may keep on researching techs that you know the AI will neglect. Republic may be such a tech. It can net you a lot of cash. Then again: there's no need for research until we can beeline to Cavalry :hammer:

aggie: indeed, but I fear it is throwing money out the window. we can really use the cash to speed along a few town improvements I'd say. And I bet you the Ais will go fro Republic!

I absolutely agree with you. But despots can't rush a lot. That then has to be done in Republic. I've played a lot of games in which Republic was only discovered after a couple of MA-techs.

no, we can rush in Monarchy :D

So you suggest to revolt, enter Monarchy, revolt and then enter Republic??? That's a waste in my book :p Monarchy is fine for always war games or when we have a lot of units. To me Repbulic is by far the best government in the rest of the cases.

I see no point in ligering in despo forever wwaiting for republic. but if you really do not want to go to monarchy - well, then we can research republic at max and use the leader for something else but the Great Library - e.g. keep him for a later wonder

OK, I don't mind a monarchy government at all. But let's then really profit from it and get us a huge army :)

EDIT: We are discussing Monarchy and Republic while Republic can be researched immediately and we don't know a tech required for Monarchy. That must be the deciding factor to choose Republic ;)

Looking at the save right now but....

I actually believe a min science gamble on Republic could reap rewards in your case : Emperor AIs, continents with no contact, 2 AIs seriosuly hurt, Polytheism not even discovered...

In any case it wouldn't cost you anything and could reap great rewards.

The other possibility would go for Poly at max which would cost you around 200g but could net you currency or construction to throw you into Middle Age and trade your free tech for Republic.

EDIT : having now looked at the save I actually am sure that if you follow my plan of going to Poly at max (only 9 turns), by the time you will be in Middle Age, Republic will not be discovered :D

Since you only have 3 half decent AIs on your continent, waiting for TGL to deliver might be quite long...

My tuppence,

I believe that after Literature we should go for max Philosophy.
Get TGL (either Leader or Leipzig)
Mop up England and Vikings and ready for push south.
This is about as far as we need look in the next few turns.

The best laid plans rarely survive the first encounter.

If you wanna look long term then I would say mad TGL inspired rush to Cavs and then the eradication of the rest of the planet.

Or if you wanna be boring push to Knights, clear our continent, build markets, banks and stockmarkets and rush for the SS.

Melifluous

eric - nice warmongering and pointystick diplo :D Getting philosophy was a nice extra that I didn't expect we'd get (thank-you Ragnor for researching that for us), it means we can research republic straight after lit and go to a nice government asap.
Entertainers being on - not so nice! ;) I'm guessing them being on was just an oversight as neither they nor the lux slider is needed at all. (Just in case your unsure of the mechanics you can have up to half your population as unhappy citizens without it causing unrest.) I highly recomend installing a 'happy-face' mod if you haven't got one already, it makes checking happiness about 1000% easier than without. With one installed you can tell pretty much at a glance in either the city screen or F1 whether a city has more than half unhappy or not.


preturn (410bc)

Do some micromanagement to tweak a few extra commerce out of some cities by swapping worked tiles around. I also turn the science slider down one notch to still get lit in 3 and save us 3 gpt (now at -10gpt). We have quite a few cities at max population, as soon as they finish their current builds I will pop workers. I check out the worker stack next to Reykjavic and find they are mining the plains, it wouldn't be useful for quite a while so I cancel the orders to free them up for roading projects. Most of our workers are working singly or in pairs scattered about, I tend to think they are better working in gangs as they complete tasks quicker and you get the use of the worked tile sooner but that is just my personal preference. They also seem to be mainly working away from the core whilst we have a lot of unroaded tiles being used in our key cities, we should prioritise getting every worked tile in the core roaded as it will give us the most return per commerce generated.
Looking in more detail at worker tasks and what needs doing I realise one very good reason we should have taken London... water supply! Dam... we should have realised this before but taking London would have been a great asset as we could have started irrigating the empire.
Change builds in a few all hill/mount coastal cities to harbours so they can grow asap. Move horses out of hastings in case of flip. Build embassies with china, aztecs and spain. I notice china's capitol has a settler waiting to pop but won't have the required 3 pop for 4 turns... silly silly ai :lol:


IT- galley just north of bremen fends off a barb galley attack. hastings builds warrior-I set it to worker in 5 (it'll actually take 6 as it won't grow till 6 but we need workers desperately so what the hey.)


1 (390bc) - set sci slider down another notch to still get lit in 2 and save 7gpt (now at -3gpt). Several spears automove this turn.
This is totally up for discussion but units being on automove is a big no-no in my book... in this case it is of no consequence but in SG's I think units should only be be moved as far as they can in that one turn, setting a movement order that carries on to the next turn is dangerous enough in your own game as it means you can't react to what has happened inbetween turns. Doing it so that it carries on into the next persons turn means they get a surprise - I may have needed or planned for that unit to do something else ;) If I'm the only one who thinks this I'll shut-up though...
Do some boring mm to squeeze a commerce or two extra.

IT- Hamburger builds horse->worker, Berlin builds horse->worker

2 (370bc) - set sci slider down again to get lit in 1 and save us 5gpt (now at +2gpt). more mm. Sell map around for china:3 spain:3 aztecs:9 england:14 vikes:18 and china again for 2 = 46gold.

IT- research lit, set to republic. berlin builds worker --> library. Bergen barracks--> worker. Hamburger worker--> TGL. Hannover worker --> worker.

3 (350bc) - set research to max, republic in 21 @ -15gpt. we have 754 gold and after we rush TGL I will sell lit for some cash too. change a few builds to libs. rush TGL in hamburger.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/TGL.jpg

IT- trondheim lib --> worker. Hamburger TGL --> lib.

4 (330bc) - sell lit to china for 212 +map, sell to vikes for 108. sell map around for pennies. mm a bit.

IT - begern worker --> lib.

5 (310bc) - roadbuilding has increased commerce and shaved a turn off research :) I move a couple of workers into english territory hoping they can irrigate a couple of tiles up to our border without being kicked out...

I got to go now... rest to come later :)

comments advice etc welcome ;)... one question, we can see pretty much the whole coastline now and there's no easy link to another continent - should I try suicide galleys for contact??


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/310_bc_empire.jpg

Suicide galleys can be incredibly effective & mean we'll be able to start on cathedrals, universities and the like that much sooner - I don't know if the Lighthouse has been built yet (in which case contact would probably come soon, if it's at all possible without Navigation) but early contacts can only help us (particularly if we can keep the AIs separated until navigation to slow down research).

I always think they're a bit of an explouit but I want to win, too :).

send our first suicide galley on its merry way :)

IT - notts worker --> worker. frankfurt lib --> worker.


6 (290bc) - hawk map around for loose change. china has construction but I can't see any other ai buying it for a while :( hopefully someone will research poly or currency and trade it with them. our single suicide galley is still going strong :)

IT - berlin lib --> worker. Reykjavik worker --> worker. Hastings worker --> lib. Hannover worker --> lib.


7 (270bc) - suicide galley spies coast!! *crosses fingers it survives the next turn*


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/270bc_galley_spies_coast.jpg

IT - trondheim worker --> courthouse. Berlin worker --> horsie. Konigsberg lib --> worker. Frankfurt worker --> courthouse. Hamburger lib --> granary. cologne galley --> worker. our brave suicide galley sinks :cry:


8 (250bc) - send second galley in direction of t'other place. (at least we know where to go now)

IT - nurnberg harbour --> lib. Stuttgart worker --> lib.

9 (230bc) - just mm... *yawn*


IT - konigsberg worker --> horsie.

10 (210bc) - we have got irrigation to our border! :D (don't know why i thought our workers would get kicked... as them not being kicked is well known for resource denial stuff... brainfart.) At last we can start irrigating up into our lands.

We have republic in 9 turns at -22gpt (it's gone up and down because i keep building workers and losing a worked tile for a turn) and 965gold in the treasury.

Our second suicide galley is also in sight of the alien coast now... if it survives this turn it will reach land next go, good luck! The horsie builds are just because we have run out of stuff to do, if we get contact we will presumably get construction and maybe more from TGL once we have sold contacts and can change to aqueducts/markets etc.

[EDIT: forget to post the save? me? never happen...]

The Save _210bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_210BC.SAV)

DrA, did you include a save?

Aggie, of course! ;)

Jack - I have been lazy and not checked diplo for a few turns so you might want to make sure you do that straight away :) If we do get contact with our suicide galley then you get to do a mega-bonanza trading round :D
Our peace with the english and vikes expire during your turn too... some people get all the fun!

Got the save :) Hmmm, I see that we only have 8 turns to go for the Palace. We may have to slow that build down. But all in due time. When that suicide galley turns out to be a succes, we may just be able to switch to the wonder :)

EDIT: I approve the choice for Republic, but that may be obvious after my previous posts :D Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I doubt it ;)

Got it :) Dinner will come first but I intend to finish this tonight.

Gargh - earlier post rejected for too many smilies :mad:

IHT: Diplo check reveals we will have construction next turn - the shameless Vikings come up to offer it for 740 gold !

190 BC (1) Do some roading - Construction comes in and aqueducts are started here and there. This is good:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK_land-ho.jpg

170 BC (2) Meet:
Cleo - Philosophy & Worldmap buy contact with the Russians & Celts +tm + 30 gold
Brennus - Philo & WM buy contact with the Greeks, Americans, Romans +tm + 82 gold
Caesar - Philo & Construction buy the full WM
Abe - Philo buys us tm+52 gold
Alex - Philo gets us tm+40 gold
Cathy - Philo gets us wm+6 gold.

We still have a monopoly on literature, and none of the AIs on our continent got the worldmap or any contacts as they simply couldn't pay enough.
The AI continent is somewhat rich in cattle, but not obscenely so.

150 BC (3) Polytheism comes in, only the Celts have currency and only the Americans have monarchy.

130 BC (4) An Aztec archer enters our lands next to empty Hastings - and I can't order him out ??

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_Aztecsneaks.jpg

I declare war and kill the archer just in case. Trade the WM around to the other continent for another 30 gold - our galley is exploring islands to the north there.

110 BC (5) Scandinavia and England are served with termination notices. Sir Killsalot dies but London is ours. Spot 2 Elite Jags - this could be trouble !

90 BC (6) Aarhus falls and :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_vikings_dead.jpg

The Vikings miraculously got their hands on 100 gold but it's ours now :). The nice thing about our new acquisitions is our Palace prebuild will last 14 more turns !

70 BC (7) The irrigation line reaches Heidelberg. The two elite jags moving on the plains eat 2 horses before dying.......... Make another 25 gold from map sales.

50 BC (8) The Republic comes in, science turned off. MY combat luck continues to be awful as an elite horse dies to a warrior in a forest. Two reg jags are bumped off.
I am going to wait with revolting until we get the Hanging Gardens.

30 BC (9) Aztecs finally get round to killing our forward observer. Sell the wm around for 25 gold.

10 BC (10) Lose another horse to a warrior :rolleyes: Advance on York. The Aztecs don't want to talk yet - perhaps we should stir up the Chinese & Spanish against them ?
Most civs on the other continent have literature, I sell it for 30 gold to the Egyptians.

Some points for the next player:
- I haven't built embassies on the other continent yet - they cost over a 100 gold apiece and we may be able to use our cash for rushing instead - the other continent is going to die anyway ;).
- No-one on our continent has any contacts, or the full worldmap.
- We have a monopoly on The Republic
- One worker group near Heidelberg got split up - it consists of 2 workers and 2 slaves now, while the equivalent of 4 workers is necessary for irrigation. Please fix
- Colossea currently in production are market prebuilds.
- We can do with some swords/MedInfs once we get them to fight our way across the jungle - the horses simply aren't much good there.
- We have 1315 gold in the treasury and are making 55gpt in despo - enjoy !

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1_10BC.SAV)

hehe,

Jungle dont even cover it.
If we want to go for China, then there are SOME mountains between. OK So maybe galleys aint such a bad idea. Once we get Knights maybe we could ferry some around?

Notes for next player.

1) Obvious but DONT buy any tech. Currency and Monarchy are available.

2) Our Palace MUST move. We cannot irrigate to our current Capital. Beijing may work well.

Notes for all.

1) Once we get to the MA, I suggest we add a NON-TRADING rule to our game to prevent too easy a win. This would mean that we could no longer accept ANYTHING from the AI EVER. We can make trades with the AI but it will involve us GIVING the AI stuff at worst or doing no trade otherwise.

Notes for mapmakers.

1) If you are gonna give the AI lots of cows, separate them with 1 tile coast ;)

Melifluous

PS. This game is won.
I want y'all to think about MK2

We could try some fun stuff - how about declaring war on some AI on the other continent and sign some alliances ? As it is the AIs there all have few cities so none of them will be strong - we should make sure some of them are destroyed so as to make them stronger. I think the Celts stand the best chance of becoming a big civ, or maybe the Americans. The Romans don't seem to have iron so we might want to make sure they're bumped off pretty soon too, and the Russians are pathetic.

Re MK2 - how about AWD ? :D

AWD?

You mean AW - Deity? You sick little puppy.

nice thought though, cant remember the variant but how about
"You must be at war with at least 50% of the civs you know on Deity"

OK. Maybe I just made that up.

Melifluous

PS. Jack why aint you on MSN?

on trading - it's interesting to see how others do stuff, I would have done it differently and traded the communications first. The AI pay a lot for communications and as we have TGL it would be good for the AI to know all the other AI imo.

Meli, we can irrigate to our capitol! We have to found a city on the hill 1W 1SW of berlin to irrigate through then disband it. Fiddly but very doable :) We should of course move the capitol at some point anyway as it's right next to the FP atm... just as long as we rush or build it and NOT jump it ;)

I agree with jack, let's have some fun with this one now. We couldn't lose if we tried... If we want some kind of challenge/fun why don't we adopt a civ on the other continent and nurse it to be a real superpower? if only we could gift units... we could still deliver slaves to it, go capture an empire and gift it to them etc. Or something... as it is it won't be long till we own our continent, then not too long till cav. We could no doubt finish this one without even seeing our beloved panzers in action if we get to it.

And I still say bollox to swords/MI and other slow units :p horses/knights/cav work just fine in jungle - they travel as quick as the slow ones do in it and still get to retreat in combat... and when we break out of jungle they can use their full movement again. If you have the option (which we do) then it is always preferable to build fast units over slow imho (it's not really that humble an opinion actually... ;) deep down we all know fast units rule)

next game... I will put my thinking hat on. There are always xCC options as well as AW options. A tailor made map would be good too imo... not to boost us but to provide an interesting as well as challenging scenario. I am tempted to offer a map myself but I want to play! Hmm... who do we know who could make us a really good map but wouldn't want to play?? (wonders if sky would be up for it.... :D)

Got it. I read that we have longer for the palace now? Knowing that we already spent the shields for Hanging Gardens...what about getting Sun Tzu? We ARE scientific/militaristic and should get a free tech soonish. Maybe an early GA???

I like trading very much, so the idea of no trade at all as from the MA doesn't appeal to me. Furthermore: I don't think it matters, we are too strong imho.

Nursing a specific civ on the other continent sounds like a good idea though :D

Dra: don't worry..I won't build slow units ;)

MK2 :

I 'd certainly be up for making you guys a challenging map :evil:
I would suggest playing under RBCiv rules as well if you want some extra difficulty....


However there is no way you are playing an Always War Deity variant without me :mad:

ggargh, the other continent should NOT have been found - the early idea was NO SUICIDE GALLEYS!!!!!!


also, I am very disappointed in the AIs over there. Far too weak!

CarlosMM: I am not surprised that you planned it like that :) But like you said: the AI there wasn't ahead as planned :)

well, maybe if we had given them a bit more time..... contact not before Naviagation was the aim!

somehow, we forgot to post that.. bu then, suicide galleys are an exploit after all! I am shocked that they were used!

Well, I'm sorry that you didn't like them. But we were not informed. Other people have other views on exploits and the suicide galley is certainly not viewed as an exploit by all of us at CFC.

as I said: we forgot to post it.....



does anyone see the need to continue this game? I'd rather restart and make it tougher....

I can understand that you want to start a new one. But I like to finish this one. Why not try to find a variant? We started with a few suggestions already.

EDIT: I'm already at turn 9 :(

I post what I finish...
We are a Republic and I didn't go for the Hanging Gardens. I choose to go for Sun Tzu. With that, we will be entering the Golden Age. Should we not get Sun Tzu, then Leo will do the same for us.

IHT: I rush-build libraries in Hastings and Stuttgart. Those cities lose one population.

IT: Currency comes in, we are in the Middle Ages. Monotheism is our free tech :( Massive uprising of barbarians. Obviously we are not the first to enter the middle ages.

Hastings, Stuttgart, Hannover: libary->marketplace.

Turn 1 (10 AD) Colosseums switched to marketplaces. Greece got Engineering as their free tech. Russia isn't in the Middle Ages yet. I give them Currency for world map and 3 gold. Their free tech is Feudalism. Now we only have to wait for Feudalism to come in from the Great Library. I will then switch the Palace to Sun Tzu.

I cross the river to avoid having to cross the river with our Stack of Doom (SoD) near York.

Luxury has to go to 10%, because Berlin grew to size 7.

IT: Canterbury: linary->horseman

Turn 2 (30 AD) The free techs are traded around as planned :) Next turn we can start with Sun Tzu.

-Elite horseman kills regular spear in York
-Vet horse retreats from regular unwounded spear
-Vet horse killed by regular spear
-Vet horse retreats from regular spear
-Vet horse kills wounded regular spear

IT: Aztecs near York with three swords. Monarchy and Feudalism come in from TGL. 22 barb horsemen near London. We have 1500 gold, but we may lose a lot because we can't stop them :( Königsberg: aqau->market.

Turn 3 (50 AD) Leipzig switched to Sun Tzu. That will still take 20 turns :(

-Vet horse is killed by regular spear in Coventry
-Vet horse razes Coventry
-Wounded vet horse re-lines last defending spear of York
-Wounded elite horse takes York with 3 slaves.

I don't want to bother with the Aztecs, they are too far away now. We get 25 gold for peace.

The AI hasn't got the money to pay for Monotheism.

I decide to go into anarchy at the end of this turn. We draw 5 turns of them.

IT: Nothing much

Turn 4 (70 AD) Troop movment towards Warwick, Englands last city.

IT: 14 barb horses decide to attack a military stack of the Chinese. They are all killed :) 8 barb horses progress towards London. The Chinese stack is reduced to a warrior and a settler. America starts Sun Tzu.

Turn 5 (90 AD) :sleep:

IT: The barbs move further and pass London.

Turn 6 (110 AD) One barb is killed by a vet horse.

Turn 7 (130 AD) 4 barbs are killed, two are left.

IT: One barb horse is killed, the other manages to kill one of our horses. But it is clear now that no city will be victim of them and that we will keep the money. America finishes the Hanging ardens. They were the only ones working on it, so we should be going strong with Sun Tzu.

Turn 8 (150 AD) We are a Republic now. Luxuries go to 20%. We make 54 gpt. Sun Tzu is in 18.

Aztecs give us 116 gold for Monarchy
Russia wants to pay 15 gpt for Monotheism. Doesn't sound like enough to me.
Embassy with Russia costs 53 gold
Embassy with America is 103 gold. I want to see how their Sun Tzu build goes. For 134 gold I notice that America still needs 29 turns.
America and Greece ar at war.

IT: Bergen: market->horse.

Turn 9 (170 AD) Two vet horses manage to destroy Enlgands last town, Warwick. But there's a settler around. Two other horses spot it to the west, with a spear. Elite horse kills wnadering warior.

IT: English settler walks back, to certain death :o

Turn 10 (190 AD) Our elite horse attacks the English spear/settler combo and kills the English.

The only civ with a tech over is is Greece, who have Engineering. We are at least two techs over the rest of them. No-one has Republic yet, as predicted by me ;)

I agree that without a variant this game is won.

190 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-190AD.zip)

EDIT: I'm already at turn 9 :(

:lol: :lol:

very nice playing, aggie! :D

You guys complain the game is too easy but...you start on Emperor :crazyeye:
;)

Originally posted by Skyfish
You guys complain the game is too easy but...you start on Emperor :crazyeye:
;)

That's why I say that we might just as well continue. We can easily come up with a variant here :)

how about this: we MUST give away all contacts immediately

That's a start, but how would that make things more difficult for us?

By speeding up the science rate so the AIs on the other continent have a chance to get to cavs and maybe rifles before we get to them ? Maybe we should also give away any tech we get through the GL the second we get it to all the AIs. We may also want to back either the Americans or Greece so as to make one of them more powerful.

BTW, I strongly urge we go for Leo's instead of Sun if we want our GA early. Barracks are cheap enough for us, and with the amount of money we have now Leo will help us upgrade maybe 20 more horses to knights.

We have Feudalism, but not Invention. So it depends on the fact whether we can get Invention in time to switch.

Furthermore, Jack your plans are OK, but on emperor it will not make it harder for us. It only will speed up the tech pace and we can easily keep up.

PS. Artificial things like giving away tech, money or contacts don't appeal to me that much. Can't we come up with more interesting variants? Always war from now on...is that an idea?

Since you must have the WM now, could you post a screen shot for the lurkers?

Here's a thought I don't think has been done before. Don't use boats but go for conquest.

Somehow, you're going to have to extort a city from the other continent. Then wait until flight to build an airport then fly everything over. All workers, settlers, leaders and artillery are stuck on the continent they originated. Do you think you could do it?

As requested:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK190ADworldmap.jpg

The powergraph:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK190ADpower.jpg

extortion of a town on the other continent is a :nono: - it will never work........

Originally posted by carlosMM
extortion of a town on the other continent is a :nono: - it will never work........
It may be unwise to say "it will never work" when there are several very good examples of this technique displayed by some of the game's best players in Gotm16-Rome (Moonsinger), Gotm17-Carthage (multiple examples), Gotm19-Ottomans (Creepster), and these are just the exampels I can remember off the top of my head.

carlosMM@ I'm not sure why it's a :nono:. I meant getting a town as a peace concession which happens quite often. If it's against some rules you have for this SG that I missed, then I apologize.

Cracker@ thanks for backing me up with some solid game references.

EDIT: Aggie, thanks for the mini map. Are there any size one towns with no resources and no culture over on the other continent? Those are easier to negotiate for.

wow, I never knew that it apparently is possible to extort towns without taking several first! In my experience, I could kill hordes of enemy troops but would not get a town for peace - UNLESS I seriously threatened a huge enemy town wiht superior forces AND had taken some towns already (exceptions only very early in the game).

Of course the games cracker referred to are the Best of the Best of GOTM. You're stuck playing with these guys.;):lol:

Seriously, I think the awesome team you have assembled here is mre than capable of convincing the AI that you need a city on their continent.

Some keys to getting towns are:
How much damage have you done to them. This includes taking cities, razing cities, killing units AND PILLAGING.
How many other people are at war with them because of you.
How much bigger your military is than theirs. Could be based on the power value used for the histograph.
What the population of the town in question is. Each of their citizens is worth something to them.
What resources does that city have. Resources are very important, luxuries are also important. Having several bonuses in the 21 tile radius (even if borders haven't expanded) is a hinderance to getting a free town. Resources (like Coal) that haven't shown up yet also count for the city. When negotiating, if one size 1 town is acceptable but another is not, chances are there's oil or coal or something in it's 21-tiles.
What culture the town has. The AI values this investment.
Infrastructure? I don't know if this has an impact because I don't usually know what they've built in their towns.
{I know there's more but I can't think of any right now}
These are just based on experience. I haven't read or written any articles on this as of yet.

EDIT: You could slightly modify my proposed varient by saying no transports but bombardment ships and aircraft carriers are permissable. That would let you pillage some tiles and bomb a target city down to size 1.

An even further modification would be to allow helicopters/paratroopers to fly from aircraft carriers. (Can they do that? I've never used them before.)

I just tested, you can't rebase helicopters to aircraft carriers so that option is out. I am going to assume that the two continents are more than 4 tiles from each other so you can't airdrop paratroopers.

Preturn! Changed a few city stuff, got some extra gold! Switched Bergen to a settler so I can place it and get irrigation.

Traded away the techs and communications! Got a lot of crap including engineering(!), 16 gpt from russia, and some more gpt from China and a lot of lump sums and maps. Also Ivory from China!

1) Turn 1 (170 AD) – Did the workers, nothing much. Fortifed the injured horses. Besides that… :sleep:

2) Turn 2 (210 AD) – Berlin and Hamburger à Horseman. Both are building horseman (2 and 3 turns).

3) Turn 3 (250 AD) - :sleep:

4) Turn 4 (260 AD) – Berlin à horseman à horseman (2) Bergen à settler à horseman (5). Moving the settler to settle so that we can get some irrigation!





5) Turn 5 (270 AD) – Nottingham à Library à Aqueduct (20). Hamburger and Berlin are going to keep making horseman. Canterbury à horseman à harbor (8). Irrigating so that we can get it to berlin and on.

6) Turn 6 (280 AD) – Berlin à horseman. City of Canal settled in desired hill. Irrigating the mine next to berlin :)

7) Turn 7 (290 AD) – Birka à Harbor –> worker (10).

AI- Greece and America signed a peace treaty.

8) Turn 8 (300 AD) - Berlin/Hambuger à Horseman. Heidelburg à Aqueduct à Temple (9). Oslo à Harbor à worker (10). Expand the palace :p ! ooo a chopped forest reveals a bonus grassland (near Stuttgart)! Irrigation is officially over. City of Canal has been destroyed.

9) Turn 9 (310 AD) – Nothing made… Moved some horseman around, going to china.

10) Turn 10 (320 AD) – London à Spearman à spearman (20). Bergen/Hamuber/Berlin à horseman à horseman (5 for Bergen). Cologn à Aqueduct à Horseman (6). Bremen à Library à Marketplace (34). Besides that… nothing much. Moved the horseman down to china but they shouldn’t attack (meli).

Since I got the Ivory deal with China we face a little problem (or Meli does). Attack the Chinese or keep our reputation (and a luxury)? If it is AW, than maybe its justified but we could work on the infrastructure before we get all warmongering.

One of the variants that I play with is to be at war with ALL of the civs ALL of the time. I've found that if I am only at war with one or two civs it is still too easy to win once you reach a certain point.
This means that you have to research tech by yourself, trade is non-existent and you are under more pressure from all of the civs.

I think that being only at war with the civs on our cont on this map is very easy as the front will only be about 2 tiles at the chokepoint in Northen China to 11 tiles in Axtec country. Once that chokepoint is secured then it is a matter of just bringing re-inforcements down to attack.
Once the lower half of the continent is secured, the other cont does'nt stand a chance no matter how much we help them.

I dont think that the terrain is diversified enough for a challenging war. It is a matter of keeping to the hills for defence and then making forays into the lower land tiles for attack, but there is always plenty of hills to retreat to and extract that extra bit of defensive bonus from.

(The best war I ever had was as the Egyptians with chariots Vs the Romans over a chokepoint approx 10 tiles wide by 30 tiles deep that was mostly hills, mountains and forestand as small amount of desert with the bulk of my forces being chariots)

For this to be more challenging we need pressure to be applied on us from all sides by multiple civs on multiple fronts. This map emphasis' a small one front only attack.

Perhaps the next game could be pangea with us smack-bang in the middle and always at war?

I apologise for being negative ( I know that I am the least experienced player here), but for me if a game is already won, and the warring is just a matter of making more troops, then the latter half of the game is not as interesting as the first.

Sir Eric convinced me. Let's call this one a win [party] and move on.

@Sir Eric: you are absolutely right. This 'lean' continent makes it perfect for the human to wage war.

OK, what does everyone want for MK2? If Skyfish makes a map for us we can ask for the most delidious abnormalities in the land and AI distribution :D

@CarlosMM: should we indeed go for an always war on deity, then:

1. That is extremely difficult and excellent player skills are needed
2. Sky wants to join that

Still I vote for always war. Every level as from monarch is OK with me. I've played one on regent, I like a challenge of a higher level always war.

Us in the middle of a 'round' pangaea, with the most agressive possible AIs sounds good. Give them good land and give us jungles, hills and mountains maybe (I don't know how feasible that is for a mapmakers) and make it a rule that we can never ally or MPP with anyone, and that we can never build or capture TGL.I don't know if everyone has the stomach for an AW game, but we could think of alternative restrictions.
We *would* need a custom-made map for AWE or AWD, I think, or at least a tested one so our start position isn't too hideous.

I wouldn't mind finishing this one though - unfortunately, the variant ControlFreak proposes is not doable as the AI main continent doesn't seem to have small cities ( a few too many cattle there for that) - the only small ones are on the islands to the north of it, which obviously won't work. With Leo's and the size of our treasury we could easily try and finish before the end of the industrial age IMO - the challenge would not be in the AIs but in how fast we can do it.

how about we play this one by letting the governours take charge of production? :evil:

Originally posted by carlosMM
how about we play this one by letting the governours take charge of production? :evil:

:rolleyes: well... it certainly would be.. err......different.

I dont think that I will sign up for this next one. I might find one a bit more my speed.

Originally posted by carlosMM
how about we play this one by letting the governours take charge of production? :evil:

You could add automate workers to it... I will follow whatever the majority of the team decides. But I rather start a new one.

I'm not sure I am that keen on an AW game myself... but thats cool - sky will want to play an AWD anyway, I can always provide a map :D

Originally posted by Aggie
I can understand that you want to start a new one. But I like to finish this one.

Originally posted by Aggie
But I rather start a new one.

Which is it to be Aggie?

:p

Melifluous

PS. AW sounds OK to me but Deity?
Are you QUITE sure? Hands up if you have played an AW game before?

@Meli: like I said in a previous post: I changed my mind ;)

EDIT: Jack Merchant came with the idea. To me AW sounds like a challenge when:

-Monarch and Pangaea
-Emperor and Archipelago
-Deity and all AI starting in the desert, jungle and tundra ;)

I was joking about the AWD - I haven't attempted AWE yet and that would be challenging enough IMHO (but Sky's already done that of course ;) ). Maybe we can also start a NOW-D game ?

@Jack, sorry but I don't know what NOW means...

NOW - No Oscillating War. You must kill a civ that you declare on. EDIT: The rules were different than I remember. Declare in order that you meet them. No getting peace.

Meldor's Diety NOW (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64862)

Dont wanna sound too presomptuous but AW Deity really is "something else"...
Would not advise unless you have won a AWE on random map ...and 2 times ;)

EDIT : Jack did not mean O_W then... :D

Has anyone won AW at Deity on a random map?

Not as an SG I believe...

Thats what I thought - there have been rumours of individuals winning AWD but I've never seen a detailed account of a winning game anywhere.

That's what I meant with extremely difficult ;) I do think that we have a bunch of skilled players here, but to be honest, I don't see us achieve this.

Originally posted by col
Thats what I thought - there have been rumours of individuals winning AWD but I've never seen a detailed account of a winning game anywhere.

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59898&pagenumber=1) is an account of a winning game.

I don't see us achieving it either, but who cares ? The glory is in the attempt !

I agree with Jack here. I don't mind going down heroically.

Look what i found on the server: MK1-320AD.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MK1-320AD.SAV)

WF uploaded it but didnt link it :D

Sounds like this is dead now anyway...

personally AW dosen't appeal to me much. Deity AW we will lose of course, not that that's a problem as such!

Anyone up for deity 5CC or something similar?

Just make sure you have hundreds of warriors. :p

You'll also get tons of lurkers, for sure.

Originally posted by Skyfish
Dont wanna sound too presomptuous but AW Deity really is "something else"...
Would not advise unless you have won a AWE on random map ...and 2 times ;)


I can only second that. I have played AW from Regent on, notching it up step by step. AWE on a pangea in GM-2 was still a lot of work and we had a team with players like Sirp.
From my own 3 AWE games, I have won one on continents with only 2 opponents on my landmass, one small pangea and lost the third on a standard pangea, already a huge challenge.
I have tried AWD in solo games and junked the first two attempts, you really need an excellent start like Betazed and Zwingli had in their games with late first contacts to reach critical mass.
You may also check out our NOW-D game, one deity AI in 3000 BC was more than enough of a challenge.

Personally, I like Gothmog's idea of an AWD-game with the additional rule that you can trade with the civs in your cultural group, I think this would be feasible on continents.

A lot of AWD talk, but no show :rolleyes:

;)

OK, aggie, me, woh else would try AWD with the gothmog trading rule?

or, maybe AWD- (no AI extra settler at start)?

@CarlosMM: does that mean that we are at war with all civs, except with civs in our own cultural group? So Persia would be allowed to trade and keep peace with Babylon?

Sounds like fun :D As long as we are not European with all European AI ;)

aggie, exactly that: we can stay at peace and may make peace at any time with all civs from our group - with the mapmaker hopefully placing them not too many of them

I would provide the map or test a given start if you like :)
but you all will have to tell me your preferences and the
challenge you are up for.

Beli: thanx! we'd like to hear from ALL pariticipants before we make someone go to the trouble of making a map ;I

I'd play an AWD, but I think a discussion on how the beginning stages of the game should be noted as they will be the most critical provided we don't start next to our culture group.

Ok, I suggest if you have a team then start a new thread, discusss the settings there and PM me, I probably need a day or so. This way Skyfish can paricipate too. :)
I would love to play too but one havy war game is the limit and if you guys fail our NOW team will certainly learn from your mistakes and try to revenge you :D