Maybe I am crazy, but I would like to continue my series of monster map games (check K7 and K8).

A 362 by 362 tiles map with doubled tech cost and 1000 turn (instead of 540) avaiable to win the game.

What makes this interesting is that the city limit (maximum 512 cities) is hit rather soon; suddenly, resources are rare and colonies get a real meaning :D


If anyone else is crazy enough to join (interturn go over 1 hour on a 1.1 GHz machine in Modern Age) I'd be delighted!

people with too much time (i.e. have joined)

me
anarres
aggie
Belial
andvruss
Strider
col

one or two more woudln't hurt either....

carlos, what are the parameters of your game?

I wish you all the luck and don't forget to put in all the civs this time Carlos :groucho:

I advice you: don't use any tweaks in the game, like you did in K8. Remember the crashes?

Maybe you'd better wait for C3C, with the new civs added already.

PS. This is not a sign up. I will not be around when this game is on a roll.

Sir Bugsy:

the game will be Emperor or maybe deity with the extra settler for the AI removed. K8 was Empror and we drove through the AIs quickly and easily.....

the map will be continents, I think, K8 with too many islands made the tech pace particularly absurd.

I am completely open for other suggestions. Civs will be from TETurkhan mod (as everyone has it anyways), but the UUs for the non-regular PTW will have to be decided.

aggie,t hanx for the warnings, and please rethink your decision NOT to sign up :p

You are crazy...

512 cities? hit the limit soon?

Forget micromanaging, it will take ten minutes just to assign build orders.

Your armies will be thousands of units strong!

Heh, sounds like fun - I wish I had the time to join. Good luck.

Gothmog, it's simple: 512 divided by 31 = 17 cities per civ. So why a lot of micromanaging? ;)

gothmog, why don't you join and drop out when turns get too long? (hoping you get hooked)

Yes, throwing 120 Knights at an opponent has something ;)


Sir Bugsy: aggie told me you are 1.29-limited: sorry, you will need PTW for this!

I would have liked to eventually join this, due to the fact that my computer would be up to the task (2.4 GhZ) but I am afraid I don't have the skills necessary to join. I will lurk.

andvruss: join anyways! No problem at all, we cna take it slow and talk important decisions through!

I guess I would join if I got advice from other players on moves, seeing as this is a emperor (or even deity!) game. I had to drop ot of one SG, but things are getting better here so....

abdvruss: then you are in! ;)

I'll join up.... I've got a decent computer.... So I *think* I can run it.... Not guarenteeing anything though, but I should beable to play through.

Strider, welcome! :D

@aggie - yeah, that's how it starts but pretty soon you've got 150 cities. I'm a K7 vet and I only had one kid at that time.

I'm in a rough patch at work until the New Year (!), so I'll have to beg off. Have fun though.

Originally posted by Gothmog
@aggie - yeah, that's how it starts but pretty soon you've got 150 cities.

How true :D The fact that my PC told me that is wasn't made for 362x362 maps is the reason why I can't join. That and my increased stress at work.

New computer now!!! Include me in - commercial / exp finally sounds like it will be a good combination ...

col, you are very welcome!

Can I be in? I have a couple of suggestions that may sway my decision though:

1) When turns take me 1.5 hours each on my 1.7GHz Athlon with 512Mb RAM (Industrial Age) I can't do more than 1/night. At this point I would like to drop to 5 turns max, even if everyone else is doing 10.

2) As has been shown by everyone who plays huge maps the AI handle it badly, and play equivalent to a level or even 2 lower. Because of this I suggest Deity level only, no reduction in AI settlers. If you really insist on removing some AI power then remove some of the other starting units - please don't remove the extra settler. You can always set the player order to help those not used to Deity, and if you have 20 or 40 turns for the first 2 or 3 people you are normally out of the real danger zone.

[delurk] @anarres: you know that with 31 civs, on average a civ would only build 16 cities? With two starting settlers for the AI, you may only get 10 cities. Looks like not enough on 362x362. [lurk]

EDIT: changed the text a bit.

Do you think you can only build 10 cities before the 512 limit? :eek:

Well, maybe. It would suprise me if that were the case. Maybe people from last time can comment on how many they got on emperor before they hit the city limit...

We were able to keep up with the AI and got about 24 cities in a 24 civ game. This would be a 31 civ game on deity.

PS. I decided that -despite my backward PC- I like to join this one. I will be away for some time, but somewhere in December I will have a *REAL* PC. I have had a lot of time to rest and less stress at work and came to realize that I probably will not entirely quit playing civ in December :)

PS. I don't mind straight deity, despite my 'warnings'.

Ouch, this is gonna be deity? I might have to drop out. I haven't even tried emperor, even though I am very comfortable on monatch.....

How big are the email saves when you send them in the modern era? Must be a killer for dial up.

p.s. I'm not signing up, just being nosey

I'll sign up, fairly descent computer, however I do agree on keeping it on diety, however emperor is fine by all means for me - I haven't played on a huge map since PTW came out, will be interesting to see something even bigger than huge.

I'd agree on the five turns and probably slightly adjusting the time required to play your set of turns. Perhaps like Lee had it, where you had to post a report of your turns every one (or two?) days.

anarres, belial, welcome!

Sir Eric: they get kinda huge, those saves, but they will DLable on dialup for a long time.....


Anarres: An extra settler for the AIs would most certainly mean that the AIs end up with twice to three times as many cities as we. Last game, I tweaked the map to give us a good start and a 'relatively' weak ancient neighbour (I denied Germany iron) - and only one neighbour on our home island. I do not think full deity level would be fun. If I find time, I will play a test game to about the end of the ancient times.....


aggie: glad to hear that you sign up! :D



I am currently tweaking the mod, testing it with minimum tech cost and so on. Looks good do far, though one thing I had to do was make the UU avaiable ADDITIONALLY to the normal unit for the new civs as including them into the upgrade chain was kinda cumbersome. This limits some civs to new-built UUs :(
I will try to get an experienced modder to change that.

Originally posted by carlosMM
I am currently tweaking the mod, testing it with minimum tech cost and so on. Looks good do far, though one thing I had to do was make the UU avaiable ADDITIONALLY to the normal unit for the new civs as including them into the upgrade chain was kinda cumbersome. This limits some civs to new-built UUs :(
I will try to get an experienced modder to change that.



It sounds like you may break the upgrade chain - I went though plenty of those headache with the worldmap.

You may want to play as the new civs and try to upgrade those units.


For quick mod testing - set the science rate to 10% - you will blow through science.

I wasn't aware of unit mods. Can you give more details.

andvruss, even on Deity you should be fine. If you go last in the rota you will inherit a developed game for your first turn and the really scary initial phase will be out the way. The last thing I want to do is to scare anyone off from this game.

I already warned for the situation we had with unit mods in K8. The thought of that doesn't really make me happy :(

So lets see... this map is going to be double the size of a huge map, but only with 5 more civs? I think were going to have plenty of room to expand out..

Strider: more than twice as wide and more than twice as high.... makes it 5 times as large!!!!!



Anarres, aggie: I will playtest like crazy on this one, don't worry.

Actually, the first test (tech tree with a new civ, UU test, GA test, upgrade chain) went well.

OK, here is a list of the new cis (from TETurkhan mod) and their UUs I assigned:


Incas - Numedian Mercenary (also still with Carthage!)
Cambodia - Gallic Sword (also with Celts)
Indonesia - berzerk
Songhai - Tank
Tibet - Samurai
Abyssinia - Musketeer
Hungary - Legionary


essentially, these UUs are avaibale to two civilizations, for the new civs I simply removed the normal unit from the available list. Should work fine :D

it seems at least Cambodia is OK!

OK everyone, let's discuss what civ we want to be!

Col suggested commercial, expansionist...meaning England?

I like the commercial trait, combined with scientific. But Korea has a weak UU and Greece has a too early UU. Does one of the new civs have this combination?

Or rather: could you tell us what traits the new civs have?

aggie: what UU would you like to see wiht that combo?

I'd like to see an early-ish UU. I suspect that we need to conquer a piece of land quite soon. Gallic sword? (be it too expensive, but the speed is handy on mega huge). Samurai, legionary and berserk also sound OK.

why not Samurai then?

what dot he others say?

I am moving this game here:

http://www.danwilliamson.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=993

aggie is badgering me I shouldn't move the game - OK OK!

have it your way.

bu the above link stays there in case something happenes to me ;)

I played two test games on deity - the problem is that the amount of land runs out before the 512 cities - we have no room to settle anymore and get flips, too.....

Aye, difficult it will be on diety with such a huge map - which is why I liked the challenge.

I think if we can get two productive cores going, then no matter how big the AI gets, we can outsmart them.

As for civ, for such a big map, I'd suggest a commercial civ but really any of them works. Conquoring early is also a very feasable idea, it will relieve heavy culture pressure (heaven forbid if we get stuck in the middle of nine civs) and give us an early edge.

Gallic swordsmen would probably be most ideal for this, fast moving units and I typically use them right around medieval infantry comes out and timing the GA would be perfect (on such a map, I figure the medieval ages will be the most crucial time vs. the industrial).

And again, I'm flexable either way, something hard and beyond my grasp is something I'd like to see. ;)

Originally posted by carlosMM
I played two test games on deity - the problem is that the amount of land runs out before the 512 cities - we have no room to settle anymore and get flips, too.....

That doesn't surprise me. Also in K8 the AI and us managed to fill the land. Did you test with 60% water? Anyway: I like surpises and don't minda few unpleasant surprises regarding AI strength as well (if that would be the case). Flips are part of the deal...

delurk/

Why not the Persians?

the Immortal is just about the best offensive unit available with ironworking, and industrious and scientific help your empire get a good start in life, too.

Or, if you want a later UU,

the ubercavalry, the Ottomans who have the same traits (industrious and scientific) and probably an even better UU. If you are going to have a ten or 17 or 24 city empire, fast units may not be your first priority. You will want either superior offense or defence, or a really low cost (and so numerous) UU.

relurk/

The huge empire makes fast-moving units a superb unit to have and their cheap cost vs. medieval infantry is great.

They also can retreat which is another bonus for them to have while the Persian immortal is nice, but is also expensive and slow moving.

First real [edit] fast [end edit] attacking unit is really the knight unless you're the Celts. ;)

I agree, the Siphai is a nice unit as well but I think the timing of the unit we will either be way ahead or way behind.

However, this is just from my experience on huge maps (none of them been on PTW).

Please choose a fast UU. On such a huge map we could find our units taking too long to get form one place to another...

I think we should play either the Chinese or Persians... I like both of them... (the chinese goes along with anarres's need for a fast UU also)

I doubt were going to beable to get any type of military victory though... I think it'll be much funner trying for diplomatic (with all of the extra civs)

Originally posted by Strider
I doubt were going to beable to get any type of military victory though... I think it'll be much funner trying for diplomatic (with all of the extra civs)

That IS fun, but I don't know if CarlosMM agrees ;) We had such a victory in K8. HOWEVER...we should absolutely be careful with our rep while playing. We will NEVER be able to attack lots of civs at the same time, meaning that we may stay peaceful with the majority.

well, the first really fast attack unit is the Mounted Warrior - but if we end up next to Greece and Zululand and Carthage......

I think Deity minus AI settler and a fast UU in the early middle ages (Rider) or late middle ages (Siphai) would be just fine.

industrial is a must, I think, simply because there may be patches of jungle 40 by 80 tiles wide - check out the K8 map!

China and the Ottomans are very good civs to have. I'm a scientific freak, so my vote between the two goes to Ottomans. But then we won't have the commercial trait.

I still prefer the combination of commercial with either industrious or scientific. And a fast UU.

aggie: I am also for Ottos - and I do not mind losing commercial! We have room galore in the long run and also I will lower - we should be fine as long as we place the two cores well.

Ottos are fine for me as well, industrial on any size map is always a plus simply because taking half the time to get a city productive pretty much means we can build everything twice as fast with a lesser amount of work force.

I wonder what the tech rate will be like and hw much at 31st really costs ;).

industrious is the best trait (I find). And sell techs that we get going into new age @ top civ prices will be...nice to say the least.

Ottos are fine by me. They are (almost too?) powerful...

Hey, seems like we will be playing as the Ottomans :D

well, Ottos is fine - but what if we do not get Horses??????

Without horses we have to attack our enemies with swords and med inf to obtain horses.

Without iron and horses, we have to do it with archers and longbows ;)

We can also TRADE for horses. 31 civs...there should be civs around which we can be friendly to and from which we can get horses.

will we ever get rich enough?

We can only find that out when we start playing ;)

I am playing a test game now and got an excellent start in it - but at 9 cities I hit limit. luckily, a lot of autorazes allowed 12 cities to be founded.....

but I am falling behind in tech faster and faster, I fear by the time I cna attack with Ancient troops I will face Muskets

I thought the tech race would be absurd with 31 civs, perhaps if we can last out until esponiage, we might be alright.

Not to mention, maybe push a few early wars to try and get and get the great library with a leader.

Of course, game from game will always change - we may wind up with horses, irion, rubber, saltpepper, six luxury, and aluminum all in our starting position (hey, unlikely, but it could happen).

There is also the peaceful route to try and obtain too.

Originally posted by Belial


There is also the peaceful route to try and obtain too.
:eek: :lol: :rotfl: Hmmm.... some how I dont think that is an option with the current list of players in this game.

Hey :mischief: I'm a peaceful player :mischief:

Originally posted by Sir Eric

:eek: :lol: :rotfl: Hmmm.... some how I dont think that is an option with the current list of players in this game.

Sure, I'm a peaceful player too, when it's only me left.

I am a peaceful player.....usually....sometimes....a little bit......I'm not fooling anyone here :)

peace? what is that? walks off looking for dictionary................




Oh, OK, THAT!!!! That is what I do until I can attack - but never after that ;)

Regarding starting this: what's your estimate CarlosMM?

aggie: most probably tomorrow. I will try out one more continents map this njight, then we should be able to get going ;)

bad news: I have encountered a bug that crashes the game when upgradinga warrior to a swordsman. It doesn't happen on small test maps, so it doesn't seem to be the mod but the map size. I am now trying to see what I can salvage.

it really does work fine in a standard map, now I will test that map size with 31 civs.

31 civs also works fine.... will test now again on huge map :(

update:

31 civs unmodded rules gives a crahs when upgrading. I doesn't on my laptop though - it appears it is a problem of too many units and running out of memory.

what shall we do?

Did you try using the "shift u" command rather than the single unit upgrade button? That worked for me on Kal-Els world map with 24 Civs when it started crashing.

Originally posted by Rubberjello
Did you try using the "shift u" command rather than the single unit upgrade button? That worked for me on Kal-Els world map with 24 Civs when it started crashing.

thanx, but yes, I did - no help. It reminds me of the weird thing in K8 where there were two units we couldn't upgrade w/o crash but all others worked :(

Maybe you'd better wait for conquest to come. I'll gladly join when I'm back.

aggie: I agree...... :(

C3C is out, and I have it :mischief: Let's get it on :hammer:

hehe, alright aggie, let's start this up!

I am currently playing a test game, but C3C is so slow on my machine that it is a real bother even in the early BCs.

I don't have conquests yet, so I won't beable to play.

Shall you change the corruption settings?

Originally posted by andvruss
Shall you change the corruption settings?

Good point, maybe we should wait for the next patch? (then I will have conquests and beable to play also).

Stirder, I do think we can progress with the playtesting now, it will take me a few days ;)

no worries, you will have C3C before we get around to playing.

Originally posted by carlosMM
Stirder, I do think we can progress with the playtesting now, it will take me a few days ;)

no worries, you will have C3C before we get around to playing.

How bout no corruption ;)?

Originally posted by carlosMM
Stirder, I do think we can progress with the playtesting now, it will take me a few days ;)

no worries, you will have C3C before we get around to playing.

I'll have conquests about Jan. 3rd ;) are you sure?

Did I register for this game yet?

no, anarres, I think not - but you are very welcome!

Jan 3rd is jsut fine I think, I want to play the testgame at least to middle ages - I am halfway now.

anarres DID register already ;)

hehe, a few months ago I bet....

I'm still up for this game too, eh?

I also don't have conquest yet, but am planning on it although the current bugs are a bit depressing and we should definately wait for a patch to adress these for such a large map, no?

Belia, great to hear.

My testgame runs smoothly so far, no crashes no problems - I do think we can start the game in January, then simply use the path when it comes.

I have a RCP ring (!) around my capital to make the best possible use of the land and it doesn't matter at all for corruption because of the huge map size and low corruption.

Ich will herein!

If there is room, I'd like to join!

yes sure there is room! Welcome, Mr coastline finder ;)

I just want to advertise for the Ultra Huge Map game that I'm going to start very soon. Details can be found in this thread.

AG - Discussion Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80059)