Here we go again--this time the AIs can build settlers :rolleyes:

Game Concept

I cannot claim pride of authorship in this concept, it is a repeat of Sirian's (and others') concept from Realms Beyond Civilization Epic 12, The Gauntlet. For more information on the original, look here.
This one managed to humble a few players accustomed to winning deity games.

The basics follow:

* No purchasing workers. No workers through diplomacy by any means, including peace.
* No upgrading units. Ever. You build a unit, it remains that type of unit "for life".
* You may not pillage your own lands. (Includes no disconnecting your own resources).
* No trading away of your last unit of any given resource. You must keep one for yourself.
* No scrolling through cities during the production phase, "between turns".
* No prebuilding of any kind. No placeholders. Ever. You are NOT allowed to change projects. Or rather, if you change city projects from one to another, you MUST wipe out any shields stored in the box by first changing to Wealth, which will erase all but one shield, then (and only then) may you assign a city to a new item.
*No merging of workers or settlers into cities.


There is no restriction on changing projects when the shield storage box is empty (because a project has just completed, or if the city has been running wealth while "waiting" for a new option to come available). Note that forced labor or cash rushbuys are still allowed, as is disbanding units in cities (with the accompanying shield conversion); but you are not allowed to rush a cheap item from zero storage, change to wealth and retain one shield, then rush a large item on the same turn (to shortcut the double cost of rushing from zero). Only one rush per city per turn, for this game.

Difficulty: Deity
Civilization: Mongols
World Size: Standard
Opponents: Seven Random
Terrain: Continents, 70% water, rugged
Climate: Cold
Barbarians: Roaming
Rules: Standard
Victory: Any

Nota Bene: I have modified the Keshik so it treats both mountains AND hills as grassland.

As far as other rules--avoid all RB exploits. Also, avoid the RCP strategy, let's build cities without trying to expose the mathematics of the Civ3 rank corruption calculator. To avoid the rank corruption bug--we will keep our palace where it starts.

Here is the start

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2.jpg

Roster

Bam-Bam
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan
OPEN
JMB (PLEASE CONFIRM--out until October 3)

We have ONE open slot, since Sirian sems to prefer Galactic pursuits in lieu of terran ones these days :lol:

Early

OK start--looks like lots of jungle and mountains, even if it is not icy. Found on spot. Scout scout warrior

Middle

Meet Japan. WC, pottery and 12 g for wheel. 1st Hut gives BW. Meet China. Wheel and 6g for Masonry. Cannot make BW for CB trade--Japan must almost have it.


Late

Meet Shaka. Sell him the Wheel for CB and 18g. We are up masony on Zulu and Japan, up CB on China. They are definately making setters. Here is our situation.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-3000BC.jpg

Hotrod--take 20. Get that settler from the hut.

This is not a screw you start, but with all these AIs and all those jungles and mountains, it is going to be fun. Chop finishes next turn. Get those settlers going. I have only seen one barb, and Japan got him.

The Redux (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-3000BC.zip)

Bam-Bam
Hotrod (UP--play 20)
Urugharakh (ON DECK-10 turns from here on out)
6thGenTexan
OPEN
JMB (PLEASE CONFIRM--out until October 3)

24 hours got it, 48 to complete

Got it but may not start until tomorrow night.

Bam1 redux

3000 BC (0): Wow rugged is not the word. This is no easy start. There is not even a clear cut second city :). Look to get a settler to at least claim the horses and try to keep China out. Lux to 10%.

2950 BC (1): Gotta luv irrigation through a hill town. Irrigate the deer. Stay on Max food to get to size 4, then granary will be completed and we will have settlers. Sell CB to China for 40 of his 41 gold. Pretty good I think for a cheap tech :). The hut is not a settler but rather increases our coffers by 25 gold. Found the Zulu capital to the North. NO doubt he will ask me to move. Just passing through anyway.

2900 BC (2): Watch a japanese warrior die to a barb. Will stay max food for one more turn then swap to the forest tile.

2850 BC (3): MM to get granary in 5 grow in 6. Up lux to 20% because lost gold from the water.

2800 BC (4): It pains me to say this but had to pass up a Masonry for worker deal with Japan. :D. Because we are only gaining 1 gpt anyway I put research on at 20%. a real long shot but IW in 38 turns. :lol:.

2750 BC (5): Watch and smile as a zulu archer dies attacking a Japan warrior. They are at war. IF that stays that way for a while 2frs shouldn't be too hard. Playing with MM to make sure the silo is full when the city grows.

2710 BC (6): The barbs are coming but I am not worried Yet.

2670 BC (7):

2630 BC (8): Granary completed starts a settler. Warrior wins vs. barbs but doesn't promote. New contact with Korea. We can pickup Alphabet for Masonry, wheel and 100 gold but there is nothing I can get from the others and a min run for writing may be possible but I think highly unlikely at this point. Math is another option as well but paying 2nd civ with nothing in returns seems like a bad idea I don't do it.

2590 BC (9): Lux to 30% at size 4 but started roading the incence. settler and growth in 5. Now here is something useful. Zulus have IW. And Korea pickedup Writing. Okay Korea give Alphabet and we trade Wheel, Masonry and 68 gold. We can't afford Writing yet. Alphabet, Masonry and 30 gold to Zulu for Iron Working. So far so good. Masonry to Japan for 20 gold. IW contact with Japan and 30gold gets us Writing from Korea. Decide to hold the zulu contact for now. Can only get 30 gold for it. Begin a 40 run on Math.

2550 BC (10): Good new is we have nearby Iron. BTW China and Korea ar at War too. We are up on all civs in tech except Korea.

2510 BC (11):

2470 BC (12):

2430 BC (13):

2390 BC (14): Build our first settler start a warrior. Begin moving the settler and our lone warrior toward the horses in to the NW. Our treasury is bleeding but can be increased if need be with a few trades I hold off for now.

2350 BC (15):

2310 BC (16):

2270 BC (17):

2230 BC (18): Writing to Zulu for HBR and 70 gold. Korea will pay 80 gold for HBR but I decide to hold it.

2190 BC (19): Moving the settler into a bit of an aggressive settlement near china to claim the horses.

2150 BC (20): Found Ta-Tu on the horses starts a temple that can be changed. Karakorum builds a warriors starts a settler, due in 5/5. We are up HBR on Korea and contact with Zulu. Pairy with Zulu except contact with Korea. Writing, HBR and contact with Japan over China. Alphabet/writing, HBR over Japan. Math is due in 29 turns. Both cities can be changed. I think we can grab the north Iron and the wines. We need workers bad. Many were for sale. Most I have seen in a game. Korea had 3 or 4 every turn. They were fighting China and Japan was/is fighting Zulus.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/bam2_2150BC.JPG

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2-2150BC.zip

I made a big mistake in not checking the game after Bam-Bams start resulting in a bad placement of Ta-Tu. The city should have been placed one tile northeast. That position would have had less overlap with Canton reducing the danger of an early war and increasing the value of Canton once we capture it. It would be on a river for additional commerce, has 2 river bonus grassland without expansion and still secures the horses. It has less overlap with a future city placed on the southwestern wines. As we can't afford the temple at Ta-Tu at the moment I train a warrior and a much needed worker now. Afterwards the best option might be training a settler which will complete at size 2 abandoning the city and refounding it one tile northeast. This will waste 30 shields, but we get those back soon due to the way better city placement. Alternatively we might try for the temple in Ta-Tu after my turn and hope China will stay at war with Korea for a long time. Then prepare for war with China asap and raize Canton. Hm, not sure what is better.

Our trading position is superb. I sell our remaining contacts for 81g, because the opportunity will be gone soon with enough cash available and everyone has at least one trading partner not at war with.

2070 BC Korea discovered mysticism and sold it around. So Japan gets writing for mysticism and 3g.

Trained 3 warriors.
Trained 1 settler.
Trained 1 worker.
Founded Kazan.

Killed 2 barbarian warrior without loss, one defending on a mountain east of Ta-Tu, the other while advancing towards Kazans founding position.

We need to chop that forest near Karakorum, not working it. The latter will waste our food bonus supplied by the game. There will be a forest shop available in 3 turns. Make sure not wasting the 10 shields. A settler will do fine as will another warrior and then barracks. I would prefer the settler.

We should order our scouts back and disband them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2_BC1750.JPG

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2-BC1750.zip)

I've got it. I will go ahead and move Ta-Tu. WE do not have a large amount of good land where we are so we sould make the most of it. An early city on a river alwasy helps when building Hoover's. On the forest chop, do you mean chop the forest with the game or the one without the game? Will be playing tonight, in about eight hours so I'll wait for the answer.

-6gntxn

Originally posted by 6thGenTexan
On the forest chop, do you mean chop the forest with the game or the one without the game?
The game forest is already chopped, but we are currently working 2 forest tiles while the grassland is unimproved - naturally because of the barbs - and one forest was roaded instead of chopped.

I vote to move Ta-tu. Besides, we all know what happens in deity varient games where Hotrod's settler placement gets vetoed... :hammer:

Alright that does it I quit. Honestly I was very very torn and set for about 20 minutes staring at the screen as to where to put that damn city. I give up! No matter what I do I get the :hammer: from now on I will just build units and play like the darn settlers don't exist.

In all seriousness I am not surprised. My original thought was on the river NE of the current spot and my only reason that I can recall is to avoid overlap with the future iron city to the north.

Our trading position is superb. I sell our remaining contacts for 81g, because the opportunity will be gone soon with enough cash available and everyone has at least one trading partner not at war with.

At least my trades didn't suck

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Alright that does it I quit. Honestly I was very very torn and set for about 20 minutes staring at the screen as to where to put that damn city. I give up! No matter what I do I get the :hammer: from now on I will just build units and play like the darn settlers don't exist.

:lol: Par for the course when you play in games with Sirian and Lee. I guess some of it rubs off. Hey, at least you didn't get the defiant dogpile like I did in my first LK game, or prematurely end the game because of lack of restraint like I did in the last game I played with Sirian...

Seriously--no worries. :)

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Alright that does it I quit. Honestly I was very very torn and set for about 20 minutes staring at the screen as to where to put that damn city. I give up!
In all seriousness I am not surprised. My original thought was on the river NE of the current spot and my only reason that I can recall is to avoid overlap with the future iron city to the north.
Don't worry too much. We are all responsible for what happend. Anyone could have supplied a dot map. I don't publish one even now, because I always change my personal dotmaps every few turn according to game developments. Human strength is flexibility not applying dotmaps without thought. The AI is way better in following an algorithm. We humans can depart from an algorithm. That is the main reason we usually win deity games.

When in doubt next time, remember we can ask for support and we can break rules provided we have a good reason for doing so. It would show skill asking for advise in the forum and delaying the submission for one or two days in case of a difficult decision. When in doubt there is no reason not playing one turn less or leaving some units to be handled by the next player announcing your intention in the forum. Contrary if you feel absolute certain about something difficult to explain, there is no reason not to extend your turns slightly to make sure it happens exactly as intended.

Rules are good and necessary and should be followed. Otherwise chaos reigns. But only AI follows rules blind. We humans can and should break them occasionally provided we have a good reason for doing so.

I would suggest resettling two tiles to the NE, on the BG tile, and a second settler two tiles south of current TaTu, on fresh water, pulling in the wheat and closing out the AI's eligibility in the area, as well as better spacing between cities. If you move one tile NE, you may get a nasty overlap AI city to the SW, much like they did in ST2.

Poor Hotrod. :whipped: :lol: But hey, just knowing that some of my original TDG pupils can now play on Deity offers some consolation to me. Dotmapping is a fine art. Opinions differ, and so do considerations. There is rarely "one best" plan.

- Sirian

I tried some dotmapping and actually developed 3 dotmaps. As Sirian wrote, there is more than one possibility and there is usually no best option.

My first intention during my turn was

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BamForDotA.JPG

The southern red dot would be on a wine (bad) and of fresh water (bad), but would grab most available tiles (good) and will be a very strong city after rails with the possibility of working 4 mountains.
The northern red dot has already been discussed. It has 2 tiles overlap with Canton (bad) and locally the best tile for a city - plains on river near grassland - (good).
The northern orange dot would be my natural place for the iron grab city.
The blue and yellow dots will have to be arranged to correspond to each other. The exact position will depent on the tiles currently under the fog. I suggest sending our scout currently in Ta-Tu right to the eastern yellow spot so we can make our decision.

Then Sirian suggested

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BamForDotB.JPG

The southern red dot is a very strong spot, on fresh water (very good) important strategic position and strong surrounding land with food bonus. This spot is much stonger than its brother in the previous picture. The only disadvantage is wasting 7 sea tiles. Nasty later in the game, but not terrible, since the only easy win will be a military victory. (See my comments at the beginning of my Epic 12 report.)
The northern red spot has no overlap with Canton (good) and is on a bonus grassland (bad since there are not many available)
Orange, blue and yellow dot will be induced natural by the red dots, at least im my opinion.

I was really impressed with the strength of Sirians southern red spot but somehow didn't liked wasting one of our few bonus grasslands for a first ring city. So I had the idea of moving Sirians northern red spot one tile northwest.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BamForDotC.JPG

Now we still hav the strong southern red spot. The northern one will have one tile overlap with Canton (bad) but 2 bonus graslands available (very good).
The orange spot follows naturally, while the northern blue and western yellow, resp. the southern blue and eastern yellow correspond to each other and the choice should be made after clearing the fog.

This would be my preferred dotmap, with both red spots settled first and the yellow ones last. Our western souts heading home for disbanding should be able of performing partial blockades ensuring the red spots if this should become necessary. But deciding on the exact placements of our next 3 cities is not my task and I will be happy with any of the 3 provided pictures or with a new good idea from someone else.

Quick turns once I got around to them. :)
1700Chineese start The Colossus.
1675Spanish complete The Oricle.
1650Kazan Warrior--Worker
Karaorum gets scientist until settler completes nest turn
1625Karaorum settler--settler
Barbs have boats.
1575Korea and Zululand now have MM. Both got int IBT. No use buying it now since China and Japan have no $.
Shaka demands TM and 26g which he gets.
1550 Sell our WM to Shaka for his and 56g. .:p
1525 Kazan worker--barrack China built Tsingtao NW of iron between river and lake. We are going to need vets soon.
Romans complete The Pyramids.

Settler completed in Karakorum and is waiting for direction. I vote going NE on the point near the 2 fish. Kara can build a barrack before the chop completes, or get one more settler out with the chop. Ta-Tu is 2 turns away fom building the relocation settler. The other settler is on the first of the 2 wines. He can build here or go over to the second and draw in more coastal squares. Two scouts helped the Ta-Tu settler and I left the third near Osaka to watch the battles. Map Making cam wait another 9 turns for Math. The Lux slider is now at 0 after the 2 settlers.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2-BC1500.zip)

Cross post with the dot maps. One settler is 2 turns of the 2nd and 3rd souther red dots. Ta-Tu is 2 turns from disbanding. China has a city 1 tile SE of 1st and 2nd orange dots. New settler should head to a blue dot and get one more out of Kara for the yellow dot.

We are in a four-person rotation until JMB gets back/confirms back in the game. I am going to wait until he returns before I play the next set of turns. I like Urug's last cut at the dotmap, but want to see how the recent chinese settlements play into this. More this evening after I view the save.

Hey Bam-Bam,

Sorry about not confirming ealier, but I was out of the country and didn't have internet access. I can jump into the roster whenever. Thanks for holding my spot for me...

JMB

JMB--Welcome back!

You can take ten turns now, if you like. We just happen to be right at where you were slated in the roster. Note that one of our cities is about to produce a settler at size 2 so that is can be moved. As you can see, we have had a couple of discussions about the dotmap--I tend to side with Urugharakh's last one--but your call on what to do with the settlers that are available on your turns.

Ok, I've got it and should have it back sometime today...

JMB

-but your call on what to do with the settlers that are available on your turns.

Unless your Hotrod and manage to screwup city placement in your two latest SG's. ;)

What to do. What to do... The Chinese have settled Tsingtao two tiles north of Urug's final red dot. That pretty much kills settling there or the location Sirian proposed. Because of this, I am not really sure how much use moving Ta-Tu will be... In any case, I'll move the city one tile NE, and then settle the southern plains tile on the river (Urug's southern red dot). These two cities will have a fair bit of overlap, but I think this is as good as we can do.

BTW, 6thGen, you don't actually need to settle on the river in order to be able to build Hoover's. You just need to have a river somewhere within your natural 21 tile radius (I am not sure if you already knew this, but I just realized/read this recently...)

1500 - After staring at the map for awhile, I finally decide to send the settler in Karakorum N to settle on Urug's southern blue dot. MM Karakorum to max food. IBT, notice that the Zulu and Japanese are at war.

1475 - The settler in Ta-Tu is due this turn with no wasted shields. IBT, Korea demands our TM and 25 gold. Because he's on the other side of the continent, I tell him to stuff it and he backs down... ;)

For some reason though, the settler wasn't produced this turn (ie, there was no pop-up asking me I wanted to produce the setter and disband the city...) I can't seem to figure out how to change this. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

JMB

Are you sure the city was producing 0 food bonus ?

So the city has to be producing a 0-food bonus too? I'll give that a try. Thanks Skyfish!

JMB

1475 - I try to take Skyfish's advice and set the city to 0-food production, but then we won't complete the settler this turn. So, I leave the city as it was and will set it to 0 fpt next turn.

1450 - Found Almakira and begin producing a worker (afterwards, we should probably begin a temple to bring the wines into our cultural radius...). Grr. The Japanese settled Edo next to the incense to our north. I am going to settle on the southern blue dot anyways.

1425 - Well, Skyfish's advice worked (BTW, is it possible to disband a city by producing a worker when the city is size 1?); move the settler 1 tile NE. Found Tabriz on the southern blue dot, it will get sacked next turn by a barb horseman. I purchase MM from Korea for 312 gold (all of it). China has a monopoly on COL. Next turn (once the barbs are gone), I'll trade WMs around for whatever cash I can get.

1400 - Found Ulaanbaatar and begin producing walls as the city is likely to see war in the near future... Trade WM around netting 94 gold (China and Japan don't yet have our WM, just our TM). China still has a monopoly on COL. BTW, there appears to be some sort of island up by the Zulu, but there is no way we'll get there before they do... IBT, Damn! Lose a worker to a barb horseman out in the fog.

1375 - Not much. I consider attacking the barb horseman (who is on a mined bg, but across the river)... However, because I've never had much luck beating barbs on Deity, I decide against it. IBT, for some reason, the barb horseman decided to fortify itself... The forest chop near Karakorum reveals a bg tile :thumbsup:.

1350 - The Koreans also now have COL. IBT, Grr. The barb horseman decided to pillage the bg tile and then moved away.

1325 - Not much. IBT, the Koreans begin the Colossus.

1300 - Math due this turn. I hope no one else is researching it... Ulaanbaatar completes walls and begins a worker.

1275 - We learn Math and begin min sci on Polytheism. :mad: Either Korea or the Zulu (probably Shaka) researched Math this turn... Math (@4th), 62 gold, and our WM to China for COL (@4th). IBT, Karakorum builds settler, and Kazan some barracks. The Chinese complete the Colossus in Canton.

1250 - Nothing much. Karakorum is set to produce another settler (to send to the southern tip of our continent), but this can be vetoed for defensive or offensive troops. Once the spearman in Kazan is finished, consider building a harbor to make use of the forest chop (and to help the city continue to grow quickly). The settler to the east of Karakorum is heading for the tip of the eastern peninsula.

For 2 leaders from now, remember to whip the harbor in Tabriz as soon as it hits size 2 (in 13 turns).

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1250BC.zip

JMB

And here's the current map...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1250BC.jpg

JMB

Bam-Bam (UP)
Hotrod (ON DECK)
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan
JMB

10 turns per round. 24 hours got it, 48 to complete

Early

Can drop lux to 0%. Send a warrior from capital out with settler. Lux has to climb back up. Almarikh finishes its worker--set to temple to claim the wines. Bloody canton has already had a border expansion. Ulaanbaater starts a temple to keep up with Canton's culture.

Middle

Kazan completes spear starts harbor to be assisted by a chop. Hovd founded starts worker. Karakorum trains a settler for our southern tip. China has lit and starts the Library.

Late

I lure the barb horseman to attack Ulaanbaatar--we win with one hp left. That eliminates the barbs for the moment and saves our workers. Karakorum completes its spear, and starts a worker timed with growth--this just started so, it can be vetoed. My thoughts here is that the worker can road up the iron to allow the capital to start producing vet swords to take out Japan. Japan is definately the lagging AI--with only three cities, and three techs behind us. The only viable settlement left is in jungleland to the NW of Ulaanbaatar, so setting the capital to start churning out vet swords to acquire more land seems like the best option. Remember the variant rules about upgrades--RIGHT OUT. Also, remember to whip the harbor in Tabriz in 3 turns. Sorry to leave you with so many long term projects, but we need the culture by China, and getting the wines up will allow us to let the capital up to 10spt fairly quickly.

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1000BC.zip)

Good luck to Hotrod!

Roster:

Bam-Bam (just played)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

10 turns per round. 24 hours got it, 48 total to complete.

Got it and will start tomorrow after ST5

I am posting here as well as ST5. I will not be playing any civ tonight. Caught a nasty cold and had to go home early from work and just spent 3 hours asleep on the couch. I don't think I am up to playing civ tonight.

I can try to get this completed by tomorrow night but would understand if the game progresses ahead without me.

Hotrod

No worries Hotrod--take your time and get well.

Urugharakh, if you are available and can play within the next 24 hours, go ahead and take the game.

First my whishes for recovery towards Hotrod.

Sorry, no time for Civ today, but I can play tomorrow. So if Hotrod will play tonight, thats fine. If he unfortunately is still too sick, I play tomorrow and we may either switch turns or skip him until he is fully recovered.

Ok.

Bam-Bam (just played)
Hotrod (UP) let us know if you can take it
Urugharakh (ON DECK) If no word from Hotrod--then take the game when you are ready.
6thGenTexan
JMB

I am starting to feel back to normal - sort of :).

The soonest I can play is tonight if Urugharakh can play before then by all means take it.

Hotrod

I take it and will finish within the next 2 hours.

The bonus grassland northwest of Ulaanbaatar is mined but not roaded wasting a worker turn.

Embassies with everyone established. Our first opponent should be China. They lack iron and have several nasty cities. Japan is not threat at all. No resources and at war with Korea who have iron.

Japan got polytheism and sold it around for cash. So I give him map making and CoL for Polytheism and all his 71g. Our next 40 turn gambit should be on republic, since we probably can't afford it. Without anything useful to research we save 1gpt for the moment.

Japan and Korea make peace.

On my last turn we buy philosophy from Korea for 149g.

We can buy Literatur in addition for another 5gpt and 79g and then sell it together with everything we have to Shaka for construction. But beware, Shaka says construction can not be sold. This is not completely true. He only demands all our stuff for it even when we switch of our lux rate to 0%. So buying literature and construction now will cost us everything we own and our economy might collapse. I decide not to do it now in the hope the trade will be still available in a few turns when we have more cash.

Minimum research set towards republic.

Next player be careful with Karakorums next build. There will be a forest chop available in 4 turns.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-BC0750.zip)

Got it and will play following the Yankee Red Sox Game :D

Bam-Bam
Hotrod (UP-switch)
Urugharakh (Just Played-switch)
6thGenTexan (ON DECK)
JMB

BAM1

750 BC (0): Not sure why the temple at Ulbaatter wasn't whipped last turn. I will let it complete in 4. I want to pull the trigger on lit but heed Urugh's warning and hold off.

Zulus declare on china.

730 BC (1): MM Kararkorum for gold. Construction is still unabtainable.

Korea joins the Zulu and declares on china. Zulus demand Philo and frankly we cant get much from him for it so I cave.

710 BC (2): Karakorum builds a spear and has a chop due in 2 turns. Start a settler to complete a turn early and get to the west for a poaching.

690 BC (3): Tabriz builds a harbor starts a temple. MM to work the coast for growth. Spain completed the Great Lighthouse. Lux to 20%. Kazan builds a worker starts a spear.

670 BC (4): Ulaanbaatar builds a temple starts a barracks.

Japan joins the dog pile vs. China.

650 BC (5): karakorum builds a settler starts a sword. Hovd builds a worker and starts a galley. Not sure if this is the best move but there is another world to find. Can still pick up Lit but conststruction is still no way I continue to hold off.

630 BC (6): Japan now has lit too and the cost has dropped but will only make construction that much more expensive. Will wait to buy it at 5th.

610 BC (7): Begin roading the wines in prep for when Almarikh expands. Whip temple in Almarikh.

590 BC (8): Almarikh builds a temple starts on walls.

570 BC (9): ulaanbaatar builds a barracks starts on a spearman.

550 BC (10): Kazan build a spear starts another. Karakorum builds a sword starts another but can be changed. Possibly to a temple as the lux is up to 20% to keep the capital happy. There is a settler in ulaa... ready if any china's cities fall. A lone sword is out and about.

here is the save

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-550BC.zip

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Not sure why the temple at Ulbaatter wasn't whipped last turn. I will let it complete in 4.
Simple answer: The city pulls too many shields. Unless in very special situation whipps are only useful for cities pulling at most 2spt where 1spt is preferred. Ulaanbaatar pulled 4spt and there was no need for whipping it since Cantons culture already expanded. Never whip a city with 4 spt for 20 shields unless you really know why.

Karakorum builds a settler starts a sword.That settles the matter with China. Whitout sufficient land to put down another city we need to raze one of those nasty chinese settlements. :hammer: Now we have to build some vet swords and attack while the dogpile is still there.

Never whip a city with 4 spt for 20 shields unless you really know why

Thats why I still find deity a challenge ;)

I'll get it. I'll probably play sometime on Saturday. Will see if we can help push back China's expansion. :hammer:

-6gntxn

Good work folks. Nice of the AIs to dogpile China for us...

Bam-Bam
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan (UP)
JMB (ON DECK)

Forum problems kept me from uplaoding before going in to work today and I left my disk with the save at home. :( Sorry about the delay. I'll have it up later.

Short Version: At war with China and in the Middle Ages.

6gntxn

Trade WM to get a true picture of the world at 14g. Canton is down to one population! Tsingtao is at two. I'll work toward getting Canton.

Almarikn will not need walls once Canton is replaced. Lose one shield in switch to granary and MM to get another shield with same growth. I do not like the galley in Hovd but we are 5 turns in. A harbor would have been a better choice. MM Kazan to get spear in 5.

530BC-1 move people

510BC-2 move some more people...China has Monarchy now. Construction will still cost us more money than I want to pay.

490BC-3 Ulaan spear-->sword I'm a turn late in dropping the Lux rate with the wines.

IBT Wang is asking for a ROP and Alliance VS China straight up. I check to see if he will throw in Construction and 6g for only 12GPT. Construction would have cost us 10GPT and 300g last turn so we are now at war with China. With that comes a new entrance to our palace. Before I can trade construction for Literature, Beijing completes the Great Library.

470BC-4 Japan has no GPT for Construction and only 12g with Literature. Wang and Shaka both have currency now. It will costs 6GPT and 340g. Our army of 2 spears and a sword heads toward Canton.

IBT Korea starts the Great Wall. We beat off an archer from Canton. Japan takes out a defender in Tsingtao. I let Karakorum riot. :rolleyes:

450BC-5 Kazan spear-->sword Karakorum gets a scientist to drop science to 0%.

IBT Japan loses 2 archers attacking Tsingtao across a river. :smoke:

430BC-6 Karakorum sword-->sword I challenge Canton's defenses and lose 4-1 with the sword. :wallbash:

IBT Defeat another archer from Canton. Zulu's complete the Great Wall in Intombe.

410BC-7 23 turns to Republic so we have no need for the pile of cash in the bank yet. I buy Currency from Wang for 365g. His free tech was Monotheism.

IBT While at war with all neighbors, China starts another wonder, The Hanging Gardens. :smoke:

390BC-8 Not much

IBT Wang reneges on his deal and signs peace with China. :mad:

370BC-9 Ulaan sword-->sword Wang got Monarchy from China with the peace.

IBT Japan keeps promoting the spears in Tsingtao.

350BC-10 More nothing. Shaka picked up Monarchy. Japan is pulling in 4GPT but do not want to part with them for either Construction or Currency. Literature and 34g is all they have to offer now. Two swords are closing on Canton now. Another two can be there in about six turns. Here is where the variant is hurting us, not able to change projects.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-BC350.zip)

Originally posted by 6thGenTexan
... we are now at war with China. ... Before I can trade construction for Literature, Beijing completes the Great Library.

Sounds familiar. Our natural target completes the Great Libary. Exact like in my Epic 12 :)

Bam-Bam (ON DECK)
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan
JMB (UP)

10 turns per round--24 hours got it, 48 total to complete

Lets get some Chinese cities! :hammer:

So nice of Mao to build us such a great wonder! :D

Good luck, JMB!

Got it. Will play tomorrow night.

JMB

0 - Change nothing... ;) IBT, our swordsman is damaged by a Chinese archer. The Chinese also drop off an archer next to Almarikh.

1 - Our regular warrior in Almarikh takes out the Chinese archer. IBT, the Koreans begin the HGs.

2 - Construction to Japan for Literature, 42 gold, and their WM. IBT, the Zulu begin the HGs.

3-4 Nothing much.

5 - Troop positioning. IBT, the Aztecs raze Tsingtao. The Chinese request an audience begging for peace. Since I am finally ready to attack Canton, I refuse. They land another archer next to Almarikh and threaten (with a spearman) two of our workers outside Ulaanbaatar.

6 - The battle for Canton. The first vet sword wins. The second loses to a reg spear who promotes. The third captures the city and we are now the owners of the Colossus. What to do with our galley... There don't appear to be any promising leads for the other continent, so, I decide to send them sailing out into the unknown. Our regular warrior takes out the archer next to Almarikh. IBT, we get the FP message.

7 - Our galley survived its first turn at sea. We see a Spanish galley 2 moves out. Let's see if our galley can survive another turn at sea (to see if I can get contact with the Americans and Romans without purchasing the contacts from Isabella). A swordsman takes out a Chinese spear-settler pair, netting us two new workers. IBT, our galley survives.

8 - We take out a Chinese spear in out territory. Our galley spots red borders.

9 - Contact with the Romans. I give them out wm for Contact with the Americans and 2 gpt. Our WM and 10 gold to the Americans for their WM. Establish embassies with everyone.
The Romans are certainly taking it to the Spanish (and have taken it to the Americans)... I am glad we didn't get America's lands... Establish embassies with everyone. Fortunately, there is no way the other AIs can make contact (or at least, I think so...) before Navigation.

10 - We lose a swordsman, but take out another Chinese spear-settler pair. We could try to purchase Monotheism (to broker for the Republic and Monarchy), but as we only have 10 turns left on our min sci gambit, I think we should hold off for awhile (besides, we might get the GL fairly soon...)

Unfortunately, I decided to commit several cities that were producing military to fairly long-term projects (marketplaces), so our assault force has been dying off (we only have 4 swordsmen left).

Here's the game: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG150BC.zip

And here's a picture of our lands...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG150BC.jpg

Bam-Bam (UP)
Hotrod (ON DECK)
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan
JMB (Just played)

Have fun Bam-Bam!

JMB

Fortunately, there is no way the other AIs can make contact (or at least, I think so...) before Navigation.

Finally something that didn't get vetoed that actually can help the team !

Nice turns JMB!

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Fortunately, there is no way the other AIs can make contact (or at least, I think so...) before Navigation.

Finally something that didn't get vetoed that actually can help the team !
Unfortunately there is a nasty way the other AIs can make contact before navigation: demanding tribute when we are in no position to fight a war. Korea or Zulus will do it and we might not be ready by the time. So selling contacs for a huge profit at the right moment would be prudent.

Yes Hotrod, that galley was well worth the 30 shield investment. It was actually the most profitable move in our game so far.

Alas, I think we may have to wait for the Great Library...

Good work to the team on the suicide galley--this should help us out. Also good work getting the markets going, even though I am wanting for swords ATM...

Early

Everything looks ok, though our assault force is unlikely to take Beijing. More to see....

Middle

Take out one spear in Beijing--send wounded swords off to heal. I am letting the Japanese do most of the assault until I get 4 healed swords in place. Tempted to press the attack, but 3 swords will not do the job on a capital with metropolis defense bonus.

Late

China lands a horse next to Tabriz :eek:, which is defended by a regular warrior on a hill. I take a chance that our fortified warrior on a hill will win--he does! [dance] We learn republic, but no revolution yet. Dalan just started its build--can be changed with no penalty. The zulu have a SoD that will arrive at Beijing next turn--we need to hope that they can weaken the city but not take it. Our 3 swords will not take the city without help, and only 2 more are on the way--one is a turn out. Some markets just finished-Almarkh is on a rax, but can be changed. Capital is building more swords @ 10spt (steady state--it is on 11spt for a turn only--to get this one done in 2t).

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-50AD.zip)

Good luck to hotrod--but I have a sneaky feeling that Beijing will be a Zulu city within a turn or two. Here's hoping for just bad enough RNG luck for Shaka! Otherwise, I am not sure what more the war will give us. Shaka has enough troops to wipe out the Chinese.

Roster:
Bam-Bam (Just played)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

I've got it. Heading to NY tomorrow but it looks like the game will be at 4:00 so I will have it back by sometime tomorrow night.

Hotrod

Well a quite update and a question!

Completed a few trades we now have Feudalism, Engineering and monotheism and a new lux Ivory.

Feeling that the zulus would take the city with 5 swords and an archer i attacked and hoped for the best. The lone elite gave a leader and the 2 others died making it even easier for the Zulus. They did capture Beijing but we got a leader out of it.

Now I stopped here 4 turns in with a question. FP? SunTzu? Army?

Let me know!

Hotrod

I would vote for Sun Tzu for the denial factor. Since we cannot do any upgrading, and we have no prebuild options, having rax in all our cities will allow for more :hammer: later. Our furthest located city is not too far away--I say we wait on the FP until we capture a few more enemy cities (hopefully getting another leader).

Sun Tzu sounds good to me also. Just remember that we now have The Colossus also. Any third wonder will give us a GA.

6gntxn

I don't like the army at the moment. A FP in Canton with the Colossus will greatly improve our economy, but your are right, that we can build his later. Canton should be able of drawing enough shileds for FP in time. The more important question is, do we want our GA now? Sun Tzu will immediately trigger it being militaristic, while we control expansionistic Collossus.
If we opt for Sun Tzu, which seems the best in view of shields saved and availability, we should delay it until we are in republic and revolt immediately.

Okay I was planning on revolting as soon as the last of the short term projects complete. We can revolt and then start and rush the SunTzu. I agree on waiting for the FP and an army is not necessary now at all. Being miltaristic with Zulu and Japan as neighbors I am sure more leaders will come. I will try to finish up what should be short turns. Tonight.

Bam2

50 AD (0): I really want to attack Beijing as a SOD from the Zulu will most likely capture it in 2 turns I will go next turn either way I think. :hmm: before the Zulus start making demands I decide to go for a 3 for 1 trade. Zulus get Republic and 5 gpt for Monotheism. Mono and 150 gold to Rome for Feudalism. Feudalism, WM and 8gpt to Koreans for Engineering. Engineering to Rome for 193 gold, Monarchy and Wm. New WM to Korea for 15 gold. Wines and 70 gold to Japan for Ivory.

70 AD (1): The zulus have 5 swords ready to got at Beijing Next turn so I decide to attack with our 3 and hope for the best. We attack and get a great Leader Ogodei :D. But the 2 other swords fail to kill the only 2 remaining spears. :( Zulus will take the city easily with its stack of 5. He is close to giving up his last city but no luck. Once Bejin falls will make peace for his gold.

90 AD (2): ulaanbaatar builds a market starts a pike. Koreans build Hanging Gardens. Zulus swap to SunZu. As do the Romans. A few projects are done in 2 turns will revolt then.

110 AD (3): Almarikh builds a barracks starts a pike. Karakorum a MDI starts a temple. Whipped the temple in Tabriz. Sell Republic to Japan for 104 gold.

130 AD (4): Tabriz completed a temple. Starts on a granary. Kazan builds a MDI starts a pike. I revolt and hire a few taxmen/entertainers. 6 turns of anarchy. We are running -10gpt.

150 AD (5): Rome destroyed the spanish.

170 AD (6):

190 AD (7):

210 AD (8):

230 AD (9): Zulus destroy China. With 1 turn till we get control back I rush SunTzu in Kazan.

250 AD (10): SunTzu completes, we start our Golden Age and are now a Republic. With Lux at 10% and research at 10 we still grow our economy by +98 gpt. Koreans have a monopoly on Theology and start on Sistene's.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-250AD.zip

Got it.

We will not wait 39 turns for invention. So research is switched of gaining 26gpt. Then I sell monotheism to Japan for another 58g and 6gpt. Afterwards I rush our temple in Dalandzadgad and the granary in Canton, then start my 10 turns.

270 AD: Rome got invention.

310 AD: Rome, Zulu and Korea have chivalry while Rome still has the invention monopon and zulus got theology.

Theology from Korea for wm, 43gpt and 161g.
Invention @2nd from Rome for Theology @2nd, 30gpt and 59g.
Invention to Korea for 50gpt and 235g.
Invention to Zulu for chivalry and 10gpt.

Canton should be our FP city. It is on almost optimal position - only Beijing would be better in near future - and the Colossus will give us lots of cash. So I rush temple, cathedral and aquaduct there spending most of our GA cash. Having not enough cash for the courthouse we start on FP afterwards.

We are currently training our first Keshiks for the assault on Beijing. So don't trade in education.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD0350.zip)

Roster:
Bam-Bam
Hotrod
Urugharakh (Just played)
6thGenTexan (UP)
JMB (ON DECK)

Let's get those Keshiks going. We are going to need to strike hard and fast--I suspect the Zulu are fairly strong.

24 hours got it, 48 total to complete

I've got it. Keshiks, Keshiks, Keshiks and a FP.

6gntxn

I see we still have the corner on the contact market. I'll wait a couple of turns before trading. Rome with the Lighthouse will find the rest soon. Sending a fortified MidInf near Dalan to Tabriz. Only one warrior there and culture preasure from Japan. I end trun and Abe demands contact with the Zulu. I decline and he declares war. Japan wants to end Ivory for Wines deal. I give hime contact with America for the Ivory WM and all 18g. Abe starts the Sistine Chapel.

360AD-1 Hovd worker-->worker

Korea starts Leo's.

370AD-2 Kazan market-->aqueduct Almarikh pike-->keshik Karakorum keshik-->keshik

380AD-3 Hovd worker-->aqueduct Rush court in Dalan for 196g. Ceasar now has gunpowder. Give Wang contact with America for Spices and 4g. Shaka will pay GPT but I do not want to delay our attack any longer than I have too. Gert WM and 27GPT from Rome for our 3 contacts. No way I was going to pay for Gunpowder@2. Someone else can if they can fing the gold out of thin air. Trade maps for 52g. Rush market in Tabriz for 336g.

IBT Rome is wanting TM and 34g. Small price to pay to keep the Big Dog happy.

390AD-4 Tabriz market-->aqueduct Ta-Tu court-->market Dalan court-->market

400AD-5 Karakorum keshik-->keshik

410AD-6 Ulaan keshik-->keshik Korea and Zululand show up with gunpowder. It is now costing about 20GPT+840g. Rush aqueduct in Kazan for 216g.

420AD-7 Kazan aqueduct-->temple Almarikh keshik-->courthouse

430AD-8 Rome and Zulu now have education.

440AD-9 Abe will now talk. He will take Chivalry or 60g for peace. I'll wait until our galley gets there and sinks a boat of his.

IBT Japan is offering their WM for ours + Theology, I'll decline. Abe starts Leo's and oyur GA ends.

450AD-10 Wang has picked up Education now. I have not moved any workers. There are 6 keshik's near Canton with 2 more completing next turn. We have 6 more turns on a deal with Shaka so there is time for some more to be built. The is plenty of money to buy techs or complete any infrastructure projects before war with Shaka. Our boat still has a long way to go to get to Abe.


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2_AD0450.zip)

Roster:
Bam-Bam (ON DECK)
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan (Just played)
JMB (UP)

Please note: Do not buy/trade for education before we attack and take Beijing--we want the techs from the library

I am not too worried about Abe--we have a deal with Rome, and I doubt that he has any techs/cash to buy anyone on our continent into a war with us.

Looks like JMB may have the honor of starting the Glorious Zulu War :hammer:

24 hours got it, 48 total to complete

Ok, I see it and should be able to play tonight...

JMB

0 - Troop shuffling... IBT, Korea completes the Sistine Chapel.

1 - I hate to do this, but we could really use a settler... So, I set Karakorum to produce one. IBT, Palace expansion.

2 - Troop positioning...

3 - Nothing much.

4 - Nothing much. IBT, Rome declares war on the Americans... We are really going to have to do something about Rome...

5 - Nothing much.

6 - Our deal with Shaka ended last turn. I am going to wait for one more turn before declaring war on him though (I want to wait for 2 more Med Inf to reach the mountain south of Shanghai before attacking). IBT, the Zulu begin Cop's.

7 - Dial up Shaka and declare war honourably. Our first Keshik takes out a reg Impi without being damaged... Our second and third win (against reg Impi) and both promote to elite. Our fourth defeats a vet longbowman and we capture the city including the GL. IBT, we learn the secrets of Education, Gunpowder (Grr, that is annoying now all my pikemen builds have automatically switched to musketmen (which, in my opinion aren't worth the shield investment (unlike the pikemen). So now we are stuck building a bunch of musketmen who are going to take a lot longer to complete than the pikemen I had initially planned for...), and Astronomy. Also, our FP completes raising out gpt from 148 to 172. We lose our elite* swordsman to a Zulu Med Inf.

8 - The battle for Shanghai: Vet Med Inf takes out vet Impi, promoting to elite. The next dies to a reg Impi, promoting him. Our swordsman takes out the last Impi and we capture the city. A vet swordsman takes out a Med Inf and promotes. IBT, we lose our elite swordsman and hte Korean's begin Cop's.

9 - The battle for Chengdu: Our first vet keshik takes out a vet Impi. Our second takes out a reg Impi and we capture the city. We also take out a reg Impi and an elite archer.

10 - Engineering to Tokugawa for Ivory, 9 gold, and his WM. Position troops to take out Hangchow next turn. After that, I think we should try to make peace with Shaka as we don't really have the enough troops to continue prosecuting the war...

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG550AD.zip

JMB

Map please? :)

Nice work on the library, JMB, and the war prosecution in general! :hammer: I agree, we need to take peace before Shaka sends some real troops. Time to pick another target. With Keshiks able to move quickly over mountains and hills, I want to see if we can use that movement to quickly strike another neighbor.

And Zed--I'll post a screenie tonight after I play.

Roster:
Bam-Bam (playing)
Hotrod (ON DECK)
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan
JMB (Just played)


10 turns per round--24 hours to claim, 48 total to complete

Early

Looks like we can mop up most of the former Chinese empire before any serious Zulu counter. Get a leader (Jochi) taking out a Zulu mini-SoD near Hangchow.

Ah--scratch the idea of taking more of former China--the Zulu have lots of swords about--and we only have 11 Keshiks around. Jochi is first used to rush Cop's in Canton. Can get chem from the zulu with peace for a 430g discount. Let's do a little fishing...nope.

Peace with Zulu along with 805g for chemistry. The Zulu turn around and declare war on Japan. We have 17 turns of ivory coming from them...

We complete Cops, and Rome cascades to Leo's.

Middle

Korea and Rome have Navigation. Build Mandalgovi on the ruins of a former Zulu-held Chinese city. Peace with Abe for his WM and 12g. Give Wang 17gpt for spices to combat the loss of War happiness from the end of the American war.

Late

Rush temples in Mandalgovi, Shanghai, Chengdu, and Beijing. Half our cities completed builds in 650AD, so, if you like, Hotrod--the veto stamp is inked up. Canton can skim off a worker before building more military. I suggest Keshiks vice muskets--we want offense, and since the muskets cannot upgrade per our varient rules, they are just not worth it for 4 defense. That being said, I have a couple building just for some defense at the borders of our civ. Lone scientist is in Tabriz. As far as attacking Japan, the lux they are giving us was for us giving them Education, so breaking the deal may not affect our rep. They got the immediate benefit for long-term payment, so I would not rule out an attack. See how they fare against the zulu--there are 10 turns left--perhaps the best strategy would be to build up the keshiks for Urugharakh. By the way,the zulu have no salt, and the only way they can get it naturally is by taking Kyoto or attacking us. Would be good to take Kyoto for ourselves... :hammer:

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-650AD.zip)

Here is a shot of our empire.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-650AD.jpg

Roster:
Bam-Bam (just played)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

10 turns per round--24 hours to claim, 48 total to complete

Got it!
edit: I didn't get to it tonight as I hoped. Will try to play tomorrow after the Yankees' game ;)

I will be out of town during the weekend. First you can even get a got it from me would be on monday. So don't hurry.

Early: First impressions. May we have grown ! :D Second Impressions. Oh man we need some defenders. That will be an early priority. Unfortunetly I agree that pikes would be better but muskets it will be. Considering how to get Japan to declare on us. He is down to 4 cities and we still have deals left on the table. I realize we can break it without killing our rep but we may as well try to play a semi-honorable game ;). Now on with my turns.

650 AD (0): Rush the duct in Tabriz. Veto granary in Mandalovia for walls. Just a preference given our weak defenses. Ditto for chengdu. Rush the temple in Hovd so we can get on with some additional miltary builds. Can pickup banking for dyes and some gold from Rome but it falls into a wait can wait should scenario. Are we really going to build banks now? I decide to hold off for now. Having been burned before on 40 turn gambits I turn research on and we can get PP in 8 turns running -4gpt. Cross my fingers and fire the scientist.

660 AD (1): Tabriz completes its duct starts on a musket. Hovd builds temple starts musket. Canton a worker starts musket. Rush walls in Mandalgovia. Can secure another lux from Rome but not necessary yet. Sell hims some of our dyes for 18gpt.

670 AD (2): Mandalgovia completed the walls starts granary. Almarikh builds a muskets starts another. Karakorum builds Keshik starts a musket.

680 AD (3): Kazan builds a musket starts a granary.

690 AD (4): Chengdu builds walls starts granary.

700 AD (5): Ulaanbaater completes a musket and goes back on Keshik duty. It will need a cath soon enough. Canton continues to build muskets. All the western cities need better defenders. Damn - Metallurgy is out and a possible 2 or 3 fer to be had. We have 3 turns on PP but i don't want to risk losing this opportunity. I can't afford it at 2nd price. crossing finger to hope neither can korea or zulus. Bumb research to get PP in 2 turns.

710 AD (6): Karakorum builds a musket starts a keshik. Well Metallurgy has yet to be traded.

720 AD (7): Learn PP start on Physics. :confused: No idea why but Karakorum riots. Did a deal expire.?? Oopps! The ivory from Japan has run out. Scroll ahead to avoid further rioting. Will up lux. and look to deal with Rome for some other luxury. Beijing builds a granary starts a market. Okay here is the deal it takes PP 1500 gold and 60gpt to get Metallurgy at second. I think that is too high for just Metallurgy but I know I can get both navigation and banking for that. I think a steal is a better option. I safely try to steal for 1700 gold and I am sucessful [party]. Metalurgy to Zulu for Navigation, WM, his 16 gold and 15gpt. Metallurgy to Wang for Banking and 4 gold. Printing Press to Rome for furs, silks, 17gpt and his 9 gold. PP to Korea for WM and 25gpt. PP to Shaka for 19gpt. Put a lone scientist on Democracy. We are pulling 340gpt. Begin getting the Keshik in place to hit the Japanese boarder towns.

730 AD (8): Declare war on Japan. Kill a reg spear and capture Edo along with a settler (2 new workers). 4 Keshik wait on the hills out side for Kyoto. 5 wait in the jungles of Satsuma.

740 AD (9): Kill 2 defenders in Kyoto, 1 pike, 1 spear and wound a second pike. Losing 1 Keshik, unfortuneatly it looks like Zulus will poach the city next turn. Capture Satsuma losing 1 elite to a regular spear. A reg samuria kills a keshik. Shuffle some units. Roading our new incence.

750 AD (10): Zulus fail to take Kyoto but the Japanese manage to kill 2 more Keshiks with a longbow and a samurai. Korea starts on Smiths. Econ has been traded around. Only 2 keshiks remain in the north with 3 new on the way plus a few in the works.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-750AD.zip

Got it.

I finish my Epic 36 report today and will be on a buisiness trip tomorrow. I do have time and will play on wedensday. In case this should be too late please skip me.

Nice work Hotrod. You seem to have good luck with steals :goodjob:. Good call on the PP research--that puts in a good cashrush postion for the next 20 turns.

To all--I know Hotrod did not mention this, but I believe he used the mobility advantages of the hill/mountain climbing Keshiks to their advantage. When I looked, that ability gave us immediate striking power into Japan. Before we attack our next victim (and if possible with Japan), we should look into what tactical advantages this will give us. This may even help even when cavs are our main force, since we cannot upgrade any troops.

@Urugharakh--no worries on the timing. This game has a leisurely pace by design. I am also in the middle of my Epic 36 report, and haven't had my PTW disk in the machine for over three days now. :eek: Wednesday is fine. Make the rest of Japan ours, and secure that saltpetre by Kyoto!

Roster:
Bam-Bam
Hotrod (just played)
Urugharakh (UP)
6thGenTexan (ON DECK)
JMB

Note--we are officially switching to the LotR timing for turns

10 turns per round--24 hours to claim, 72 total to complete

I figured it was better to give 1700 gold to the spy rather than the huge Romans. The risk of war with Rome is limited given the distance and they were one of the only civs actually polite with us.

I couldn't see paying monopoly prices for Metallurgy so went for the steal.

Yep, did attack from the hills of Kyoto but our Keshiks were taken out in the hills by a samurai and a longbow :(. Did pickup 2 more cities at least but only managed to give the Zulus a free shot at Kyoto.

Hotrod

Kyoto fell to Shaka on my first turn as expected. Japan is down to 2 cities. We cant reach Osaka and Tokyo is in a terrible strategic position and worthless until we got some more Zulu cities.

I made peace with Japan for all they had, 2gold, in 770 AD. Then sold them a tech each turn until they died.

2fer economics and physics.

Japan eliminated in 810 AD.

Have to buy spices at increased cost of 22gpt. Start building a few cathedrals as a consequence.

Military tradition is available from Zulus and America. I decided to wait for a possible 2fer with Korea.

Our scientist is in Shanghai and might be changed after the rushed market completes next turn.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD0850.zip)

I've got it.

-6gntxn

Bad news about Kyoto--that gives Shaka his only saltpeter. Any chance of poaching it away with an aggressive settlement? It would be nice to take on Shaka without seeing any zulu cavs in counter, but not absolutely necessary.


Roster:
Bam-Bam
Hotrod
Urugharakh (just played)
6thGenTexan (Playing)
JMB (ON DECK)

Take a look at Kyoto and do not see a road or harbor to connect the salt to the rest of the country. We have 7 truns on the GPT deals to wait and hope the border does not expand and the salt connected. Nothing else to do but look around and see where everyone is.

IBT Rome killed of Abe and starts on Smith's. Zulu's march their Knight Army between Kyoto and Hlobane.

860AD-1 Shanghai market-->granary Incense and 815g get MT from Rome. I want to strat on some cavalries. Spend 232g on Bank in Karakorum and 360g in Dalanzadgad. Move Scientist to Karakorum. Spend 7g to get WM.

870AD-2 Kara, Canton and Dalan start cavalries. Wang must have renewed a deal to include MT or learned it himself. Last turn he only had 44g to give. Rush courthouse in Novd for 225g. They get the scientist.

880AD-3 Hovd start on a cathedral. Caesar showed up with Magnetism. Rush cathedral in Ulaanbaatar for 424g.

890AD-4 Ulaan cathedral->cavalry Chendu granary-->harbor Wang learned Democracy and traded with Caesar for Magnatism. Shaka has neither. I'll wait for ToG. Iver never had this few apponents at this stage of a game before. It is odd for me to see Demcracy selling for 2000g. A lot of deas are set to expire in 3 turns so I wait and see what developes. I'm turning off research until the Industrial Age. Rush bank in Beijing for 340g. Rush Bank in Kazan for 304g.

900AD-5 Beijing starts a cavalry while Kazan starts a courthouse. Rush bank in Tabriz for 316g and in Almarikh for 304g.

910AD-6 Tabriz starts a courthouse and Almarikh starts a cavalry. Satsuma riots so they get a tax man. Shaka has been getting salt from someone because he is sending a lot of muskets south to his old China towns but I have yet to see a calvary of his. Karakorum completes our first cavalry. Rush granary in Shanghai for 180g. Rush market in Mandalgovi for 264g.

920AD-7 Shanghai and Mandalgovi start a banks. Canton cavalry-->cavalry We lost our silks and furs from Rome. Tax increase of 10% would cost us 61GPT and still require 2 clowns. Buy the lux back for 960g. No more russhes for me. We will get the 960 back in 2 turns.

930AD-8 Indo worker-->walls We were already 2 turns into the workers so I did not change the build. Looking back, I wish I did. They still need a temple, too. Buy Democracy for 1890 from wang and sell it to Shaka with WM and 10g. I took the 2fer while it was there.

940AD-9 Move workers around. I'm building a road between Satsuma and Shanghai through a jungle before clearing. Shanghai is connected by roads through Zulu territory.

950AD-10 Daland calvary-->cathedral Karakorum cavalry-->cavalry Rome now knows Music Theory. We now have 4 Cavalries with 5 more due in 5 turns. Two are sitting outside of Kyoto.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD0950.zip)

Originally posted by 6thGenTexan
Buy Democracy for 1890 from wang and sell it to Shaka with WM and 10g. I took the 2fer while it was there.


Tex, where is the 2fer? :hmm: What did you get from Shaka?

Looks like JMB will be getting us ready for some :hammer: with cavalries. Hope Wang doesn't pull Nationalism! We should try and do some damage with cav before rifles come online, and then try and figure out how to knock Rome down a few. I have bad experiences when Rome runs away with things on other continents....

Roster:

Bam-Bam (on deck)
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan (just played)
JMB (UP)

24 hours to claim, 72 hours to complete

I see it and will try to get to it tonight...

I am planning on just buiding up troops and leaving the :hammer:ing up to you Bam-Bam :)

JMB

Missed that while quickly proofing my post. :smoke: We got Magnetism from Shaka.

0 - Rush the harbor in Chengdu (we need to get an aqueduct into this city to pump it up as it is in the first ring of our FP...). IBT, the ZUlu and Romans begin Bach's (Rome also begins Newton's).

1 - TOG has now made the rounds, so I decide to purchase it off of Rome (I don't particularly want to support Caesar, but we are going to go to war with either Shaka or Wang sometime soon and I don't want to lock us into peace for 20 turns...). 70 gpt to Caesar for TOG at last. Fortunately for us, Wang drew Medicine as his free tech (and Rome has already bought it off os him...). Ulaanbaatar switched from cav production to a settler (it just produced a cav...). IBT, the Korean's begin Newton's and complete Smith's. The ZUlu begin Newton's. Korea is looking like a nicer target than the Zulu...

2 - Nothing much.

3 - Nothing much. IBT, the Korean's begin Shakes.

4 - Grr... The Zulu's cultural borders expand before my settler arrived to claim the land... (and they now have access to saltpeter). Still, I am going to steal it away from them within the next two turns or so... IBT, Shaka demands we remove our forces from his territory; we comply. Rome begins Shakes.

5 - Nothing much. IBT, Rome declares war on the Zulu. Shanghai loses some population to disease.

6 - Found Choybalsan. It is only 2 tiles from Ed, so if we feel this location is too close, the next leader can abandon the city.

7 - Decide that we no longer want Korean Spices for 22 gpt. Instead, we offer Caesar wines for his Gems. Decide to purchase a ROP from the ZUlu (for 2 gpt) to help attack Korea and hopefully disuade them from attacking us should Korea attempt to pull them into an alliance...

8 - Troop positioning...

9 - Pull all troops out of Zulu lands, cancel all deals with Korea (who fortunately still doesn't have nationalism), and declare war (I guess I am not just going to leave the :hammer:ing to Bam-Bam... :) ) The battle for Ulsan (size 12): Vet cav takes out reg musket without being damaged and promotes. Our next cav retreats doing 1 point. The next cav redlines, but kills the defender. Unfortunately, our next cav dies, promoting the regular defender. Our last cav wins and we take the city. The battle for Inch'on (size 7): first cav defeats the regular defender without taking any damage. The second dies without doing any damage. Numbers three and four win and we capture the city. IBT, the Koreans bombard our shores...

10 - Lose a couple of cavalry attempting to kill stray units (dumb move...). I have left all of our Keshiks and cavalry (although most of these guys are damaged) in Ulsan fortified. I suggest we move them to the mountains 2 tiles west of Ulsan and fortify them there so that we can take Seoul next turn (and if we are lucky, we might even get Hyangsan too...). Also, feel free to rush a bunch of projects as we have quite the nest egg building up... (> 5000 gp)

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1050AD.zip

Have fun Bam-Bam!

JMB

Ok folks, I am soon to be afoul of my own 72 rule, but expect to have the turns up tomorrow.

Bah. Hotrod, please take the game. I've got too much going on to get ready for my youngest's christening in a couple of weeks. I should be back to normal after I get all the bloody invites out.

Of course, it's all worth it.

http://sheridan.freewebpage.org/Family/sarahbow2.JPG

Sorry for taking so long to then just skip.

Roster:
Bam-Bam (skipped this round)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

I'll see what I can do. Plan on getting into conquests tomorrow night :D

@Bam-Bam I like your daughter's shirt. :D

@Texan--yep, that was a present from one of her grandmothers from a recent trip to San Antonio. My older daughter has a nice shirt that is basically the Texas flag.

1050 AD (0): We are at war with Korea but decide not to Ally with Zulu instead looking to get Nationalism from Rome. He will part with it for a mere 4K in gold and 40gpt. :p! Instead try a safe steal for 2260. AND .... It's better to be lucky than good. We get Nationalism and begin researching on Steam. Draft out of Beijing, Karakorum, Hovd, and Canton all at size 12 with full food. Rush temple in Satsuma, Cath in Dalandzadgad.

1060 AD (1): Korea was nice enough to kill some of its old citizens in Ulsan. Satsuma completed its temple starts cannon. Dalandzadgad builds cath starts cavalry. Moving stack of cavs and Kehsihks to attack Hang or Souel next turn.

1070 AD (2): Kill 3 Rifles and destroy Hyangsan, rather than risk an almost defininte flip. We could use the workers anyway.

1080 aD (3): Seoul is nice enough to build Newton's for us. Lose a couple units to Koreans counters. More movement toward the front. Rush a couple domestic building to free up some cities for rifle building.

1090 AD (4): Ceasar ask nicely for a small favor. I cave and give up 100 gold and TM. WW is kicking in and Beijing riots, 20% WW, 6% draft. Scroll and hire a couple entertainers and taxmen, rush a cathedral. Up lux to 10% and adjust. Kazan builds library starts a rifle. Chengdu builds duct starts a market. Hovd a cath starts a rifle. :wallbash: Inch'on flipped to Koreans, have cavs in the area to retake the city and decide to raze it to the ground. Without enough defensive units to hold t Inch'on and Ulsan safely I burned it.

1100 aD (5): Korea and Zulu sign and embargo against us. With our forces depleted by flips and the loses to reraze Inch'on I press the Keshiks to the limit and attack Seoul. Manage to wound and or kill at least 6 rifles and yet Seoul still stands. Cavs are on the way but sure the rifles will be replenished. I fear this is our last stand vs. Korea for the moment. Once rifles come into the picture our force of Keshiks were beat. IF they could've upgraded to CAVS they would be a force to be reckoned with ;). Make peace now and allow more time to build up our forces to hit the zulu soonish. We get 34gpt. Reup our Dyes to Rome deal for 37gpt. Still only down Medicine, MT and Free Art. Steam is due in 12 with -11gpt.

Zulus are now at war with korea and Rome.

1110 AD (6): Not much

1120 AD (7): Furs and silks deals run out. Reup furs for 500 gold.

1130 aD (8): Zulus lack Salt and don't have Nationalism. Hope they will get beatup and weakend. Have a force of Keshiks outside of Ulsan and will form a force of cavs to the West for a coming war with the zulu. Rome just picked up Communism.

1140 aD (9): Zulus build Bachs. Rome gets shakes. Not much.

1150 AD (10): Even less. Steam is due in 7, building mosly cavs. Spent a lot of gold but we still have 1882 gold.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1150AD.zip

Roster:
Bam-Bam
Hotrod (just played)
Urugharakh (UP)
6thGenTexan (ON DECK)
JMB

Let's get some settlers over to the razed Korean cities. Looks like the new target is the zulu. Too bad about Korea getting rifles. Upgraded cavs would have probably won the day, but that's not what this one is about.

Nice to see your steal luck keep up, Hotrod!

Got it.

And gratulations to Bam-Bam.

Thanks, Urugharakh. The newest addition has reached the age (3.5 months) of lots of smiles, giggling, squealing, laughing. She is quite a lot of fun (and will even sleep through the night on occasion). Her older sister (~3yrs) is not too bad either. :)

(and will even sleep through the night on occasion).

Mine is now 2 and 1/2 and lets everyone know it! :lol:

She is sleeping great but her father still has some bad habits left over from when she was an infant ;).

yeah, couldn't see giving Rome any more gold. They are going to be a force to wreckon with. Agreed that we need settlers to claim lands.

11 Keshiks just aren't enough to take the Korean Capital most retreated, did manage to kill a few rifles but not strong enough IMO. The flip hurt as well. :(

Put Ulsan on diet to reduce flip chances.

Zulu and Korea signed peace in 1180 AD.

We discover steam power in 1210 AD. Switch of research, as we need at least libaries in all our productive cities for efficient research.

Nevertheless I started some libaries in a couple of cities as our military options are limited at the moment. and some additional infrastructure will serve us well. I choose Dalandzadgad as our iron works city. I see 3 resources of coal, 2 of them already connected. Steam power earns communism, free artistry, music theory, spices and 140g form Korea; together with communsim we get medicine, ivory and 11g from Zulu; and finally furs, 34gpt and 317g from Rome.

I rush several buildings with our new income of 651gpt to speed up on infrastructure.

Rome got sanitation in 1230 AD. I start disbanding outdated warriors and spears in our small cities. Once we have all our cities connected by rails we schould get rid of all of them and may even consider disbanding muskets when infantry is available.

Next turn everybody has sanitation. I buy from Korea for dyes and 868g. We will attack Zulus first, so nothing to worry about another 20 turns peace with Korea.

We still need lots of workers. I trained about 5 (lost exact count) and we should continue training them out of all cities without growth possibility.


Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD1250.zip)

Nice trades. I agree on disbanding the useless units--I am of the school that gets rid of them rather than keep them for a rainy day flip reduction.

Agree on choice of next target. Some infrastructure to help research would be helpful considering the lack of trading partners (hopefully to be further reduced :evil: ).

Roster:
Bam-Bam
Hotrod
Urugharakh (just played)
6thGenTexan (UP)
JMB (ON DECK)

Let's see if we can get a sizable force against the zulu before infantry come along.

I've got it. It will be late Sunday before I can play though.

1250AD-0 If we did not have 16 turns to wait to attack Shaka, I could pick up 11 slaves right now. Rush temple in Ulsan for ~230g and the courthouse in Chengdu for 200g.

Roman-Zulu war ends.

1255AD-1 Ulsan temple-->walls Chengdu courthouse-->bank Endo worker-->worker Hovd worker-->granary Disease strikes Dalandzadgad. Disband warrior in Ta-Tu to save a turn on the granary. Rush courthouse in Madalgovi for 188g. Rush library in Almarikh for 240g.

1260AD-2 Beijing courthouse-->hospital Mandalgovi courthouse-->hospital Almarikh library-->hospital Ulaanbaatar library-->rifleman Ta-Tu granary-->bank Karakorun rifleman-->hospital Rush hospital in Canton for 368g.

1265AD-3 Canton hospital-->harbor Edo worker-->marketplace Kazan rifleman-->hospital Rush granary in Hovd for 186g. Rush hospital in Almarikh for 604g because I miss-clicked.

1270AD-4 Almarikh hospital-->cathedral Hovd granary-->hospital Rush hospital in Beijing for 496g. Rush hospital in Karakorum for 456g.

1275AD-5 Karakorum hospital-->cavalry Beijing hospital-->cathedral Canton harbor-->cavalry Rush library in Tabriz for 140g.

Korea asking to reup the peace deal w/o all the GPT they were kicking in. We still have trade deals with them and are looking at Shaka so I accept. Our palace looks a lot better with a west wing, manicured lawns and bushes and nice stoer monuments along the entry stairs. Rome starts Umiversal Sufferage.

1280AD-6 Tabriz library-->hospital Industrialization @2 can be purchase for the bargin price of 200GPT and 2996g. Rush granary in Satsuma for 124g.

Second story added to west wing of palace. We lose our silks.

1285AD-7 Satsuma granary-->bank Ulaanbaatar rifleman-->hospital We are fine w/o the silks. Rush hospital in Kazan for 420g. Rush hospital in Hovd for 532g.

1290AD-8 Kazan hospital-->cathedral Hovd hospital-->cavalry Industrialization has made the rounds and Korea nad Rome have electricity. Electricity will cost us 3500 to buy @3. I go for the save steal from Korea for 2420g. We get caught and Wang is not pleased. It is not like he wasn't already furious at us.

Wang starts sufferage.

1295AD-9 Canton, Karakorum cavalry-->cavalry

Zulu start sufferage.

1300AD-10 Building more railroads. We now have enought gold to try another steal or buy electricity with 30-25GPT thrown in. Shaka still does not have it so the 2fer is still available. Shanghai is the only size 12 city still needing a Hospital. Dalandzadgad will need one after the Iron Works completes.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD1300.zip)

Roster:
Bam-Bam (ON DECK)
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan (just played)
JMB (UP)

Solid turns, Texan. I suspect we should get in on electricity now, especially if there is a 2-fer available. Our only hope for ToE is to get the tech before the AI by at least 5-10 turns, and have factories available. Not looking good for that. Let's see what JMB can pull out of the hat.

It was some quiet turns rushing hospitals and other odd buildings keeping between 2000-2500g at 600+GPT. I opted to let some else try their luck on another steal attempt.

6gntxn

Does anyone know the exact probabilities for a save steal as well as the other steal options?

IIRC, for stealing with diplomats, there was a larger difference between immediate and careful than there was between careful and safe.

I did a quick look for the article in which I read this, but came up blank (search function is also not working :( ). I also remember the study showing a statistically significant difference between spy chance of success and diplomat chance of success (though I know that the study did NOT take into account the probability of success in first planting the spy.)

All that taken into account--I would say for this game we should stick to safe and careful. I would not shy away from careful, but since we have the cash--why not stick with safe. Let's see if anyone else can locate that old article. I do remember that there may not have been enough data to draw perfect conclusions--just some good trending.

I see it and will try to play either tonight or tomorrow night...

JMB

My question was more related to the fact that buying the tech would have cost us only 1000 g more than a steal. Hence a save steal must have more than ~70% chance of success to be useful at all and I would perfer ~80% in our case, because a failur might reduce our chance for ToE.

It is certainly not in the 80% range with diplomats, AFAIK. Good observation, Urugharakh. The advantage of the steal is that we are not lining the pockets of our future enemies.

Quoting Bam-Bam: "Our only hope for ToE is to get the tech before the AI by at least 5-10 turns, and have factories available."

Aren't leader rushes acceptable? I hope so...

1300 AD - We could really use a few more defensive troops... Position a units for the assault on the Zulu in 6 turns. I hope to be able to capture Kyoto, Isipezi, Xinjian, Hangchow, and Macao :rolleyes: This might be pushing it though as the Zulu now have riflemen... Purchase Electricity from the Koreans for our WM and 181 gpt. Electricity, 225 gold and our WM to Shaka for Industrialization.

1305 - Not much. IBT, Canton starts factory (to be rushed as soon as we've accumulated some of shields)

1310 - Not much. IBT, Karakorum starts factory (as above...)

1315 - Hurry factory in Canton.

1320 - Hurry factory in Karakorum. Finally think to check to see how quickly we could research Scientific Method... It would take 10 turns at -69 gpt. I think we are probably better off waiting for one of the AIs to research it...

1325 - More war preparations... IBT, Ulaanbaatar begins factory.

1330 - Ship! :eek: Everyone got Rep Parts last turn... Dyes and 10 gpt to Rome for Furs and Silks. I consider stealing Rep Parts from Wang, but decide that since we'd only save about 300 gold, I don't think it is worth it. To prevent Shaka from allying with Wang, I purchase Rep Parts from Wang for 148 gpt. We have rubber and fortunately it is connected. Hurry factory in Beijing. Cancel our ROP with the Zulu and declare war on them. Since they have multiple sources of rubber, this will need to be a very limited war... A Keishik promotes taking out a longbowman. We lose 4 cavalry, but raze Isipezi (the Zulu culture is much higher than ours and we have a couple of settlers on hand to replace the city...). We lose 1 cavalry taking Xinjian and raze the city. We lose 2 cavs capturing Hangchow and fail to take the city by 1 hp :(. We lose 3 cavs, but take Kyoto. As our two settlers are going to be used next turn, I decide to capture the city. Seeings as I have a couple of free cavalry (that weren't needed to take Kyoto), I decide to try to finish off Hangchow this turn. We lose another cav ( :mad: against a 1 hp rifleman who then promotes...), but finally end up capturing the city... :D Hopefully we'll be able to hang on to our recently aquired lands (and our old cities...) IBT, we lose 2 Keishik and a rifleman. Palace expansion.

1335 - Whohoo!! :band: [party] [dance] From amidst the ransk of one of our elite Cavalry units, the great leader Chagati arises. He is sent to Canton to rush TOE once it becomes available (or Sufferage if we want it...). Hurry factories in Ulaanbaatar and Mandalgovi. Found Erdenet. IBT, Dalandzadgad completes the Iron Works. We lose a keishik. The Zulu begin Sufferage.

1340 - Purchase Spices off of Korea to help out with WW for 46 gpt. Nobody has Sci Method yet and everyone is working on Sufferage. Seeings as we have several elite units. I decide to rush Sufferage in Canton in the hopes of getting another leader (also, I think we might be able to outbuild the AIs to TOE in Dalandzadgad). Chagatai rushes Sufferage. Found Tsetserleg. Unfortunately, we don't get a leader this turn. Perhaps next turn.

1345 - Hurry factory in Dalandzadgad. Kill a few more units.

1350 - Kill a few units. I have left a bunch of troops outside of Macao (~6 of them). It is unfortunately defended by an infantryman, so I'll let Bam-Bam decide what to do with them. We can make peace with Shaka (getting around a 700 gold discount on Espionage), but I think we are actually in a pretty good position right now, and think we should let the war continue in the hopes of generating another leader ( :worship: ) to rush the TOE. Next turn, three of our cities will complete infantry builds. After that, I'd suggest switching back to cavs (or artillery) for the leader fishing (of course, our cities are woefully underdefended (with many of them being defended by spearmen), so maybe we want to keep them on infantry production. (BTW, I haven't MM'd anything recently...)

Here's a picture of our recently acquired lands:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1350AD.jpg

Have fun Bam-Bam!

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1350AD.zip

JMB

IHT: Decide to attack--if we make peace, we will need to wait 20 turns anyway, and there are few wonders left to "save" elites for leaders.

The battle for Macao:

Elite cav vs. vet inf wins 4-4
Elite cav vs. reg inf wins 3-1 and Macao is ours.

And this city was on a hill?? I decide the RNG loves me, for now.

Do what I can to get another elite victory--lose one keshik, retreat one cav, and get another elite cav victory, but there are no more troops in range, and the next batch will all be on mountains. Killing another unit improves our peace negotiations, so peace and 295g get espionage. Drafted a unit in Beijing.

Oops--shaka has no coal :lol:

1355 (1) Almarikh cath--factory. Beijing coal plant--settler. Edo aqueduct--granery. Ulaan inf--inf. Karakorum inf--inf. Korea and have the Corporation.

1360 (2) Beijing settler--inf. Mandal inf-inf. Tabriz hospital--factory. Hanchow worker--library. Rush worker in Ulsan. Baruun-Urt founded on ruins of some Zulu city. Starts on walls. Rush library in Macao.

1365 (3) Macao lib--walls. Dalan coal plt--police station. Karkorum inf--inf. Canton inf--inf. Ulsan worker--library.

1370 (4) Ulaan inf-inf.

1375 (5) Dalan police station--inf. canton inf-inf. Karakorum inf--inf. Beijing inf-arty.

1380 (6) Mandalgovi inf--arty (its over 40spt). A couple more inf. MM cities for magic numbers.

1385 (7) Rush libraries on borders. Rush walls on borders. More worker MM.

1390 (8) Everyone now has Scientific Method. Korea will give us a nice discount (765g) for dyes, but I do not want to add 10 more turns to our min peace period. Shaka will get some cash (he has none), for our ToE run. 2275g to Shaka for SciMeth @ last. ToE due in 7 @ Dalandzadgad. I cannot get this city to 100spt without a hospital. None of the AIs have started ToE, so I think we got it.

IT: Everyone starts ToE.

1395 (9) Looking at the other cities (Zimbabwe, Soeul, and New York. I think we have ToE in the bag by at least a turn or two.

1400 (10) Kyoto builds worker--library. This should be rushed to get some culture up there. Canton is on an arty/turn diet. Other cities are either on inf/2 or arty/2. Karakorum is annoying me at 75spt, but it is building the intelligence agency. Almost all of our cities have at least one vet inf. Our mighty artillery force of 5 units is in Canton. That number should be up by about 20 after Hotrod's turns. ToE is due in 5.

EDIT: Shaka does now have coal hooked up.

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1400AD.zip)

We are in a good position--Rome does not seem to be running away, and ToE should put us in perfect position for more :hammer:. I suggest taking another bite out of Korea. We just got 180ish gpt back, so the rushing economy is in good shape.

Good luck to Hotrod!

Roster:

Bam-Bam (just played)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

I've got it and should be able to play tomorrow.

1400 AD (0): At first glance it was looking very strange. Then I realized that I had opened it up in Conquests. Well slave look like slaves the victory condition screen works and most likely wouldn't make much of a difference but said wooops and started up PTW. Here goes. ToE is due in 5 but we are researching Corporation. I change that to Atomic Theory. Kyoto has just started a LIbrary swap it to a Courthouse. Maybe some of those many shields can be reclaimed. Some minor MM brings our Gpt up to +500. Reup our Rome wines for gems deal and rome kicks in +13gpt.

1405 AD (1): Edo completes a granary starts a market. Shanghai start a factory.

1410 aD (2): The infrastructer push and small military build up continues. Rome gets demanding and only asks for 85 gold and TM. Sure!

1415 AD (3): Karakorum builds the CIA starts on a university. Choybalsan builds a granary starts a courthouse. Plant 2/3 spys Korea fails and Wong is upset but didn't declare war. TOE in 2 turns.

1420 AD (4): Erdent builds a granary starts library. Rome declared on Zulus. Chengdu builds factory starts Hospital. Satsuma builds bank starts factory. Got a Korean Spy. ToE next turn.

1425 AD (5): We complete ToE in Dalandzadgad. Pick up AT and Electronics and start on Radio at Min Science. Start on Hoover, due in 10 turns. I am not concerned about losing Hoover so I strike now and Trade AT to Rome for 920 gold and 286 gpt and Corporation. AT to Korea fo Steel and 425 gold. AT and Steel to Zulu for Refining. :( There is only 1 oil on our entire continent and it is not hooked up. It is in the Northern Zulu territory. Korea went and got some on the other island. Pay 1 gold for some Roman Oil.

1430 AD (6): Pollution is becoming a pain. Start 1 Stock exchange will start a few more next turn.

1435 aD (7): Reup our dyes and 8gpt to Rome for furs and silks deal. Karakorm builds a university starts a Stock exchange. Start a few more as a few artillery completed.

1440 AD (8): Minor tile swapping around a few cities. Hooover is due in 7. continue pollution cleanup.

1445 AD (9): Korea cancells our spices deal. I don't renew. Move workers arournd a bit. continue pushing on infrastructure. Do it now before a war breaks out. Hoover in 6 turns. NO deals with Zulu or Korea. Korea and Rome just picked up combustion. Can trade electronics for that but not really needed just yet.

1450 AD (10): Mandalgovi riots :wallbash: missed it :smoke: fix and scroll the rest to make sure. Rather than paying Zulu or Korea for lux I bump ours to 10% fire entertainers etc. Hoover is due in 5 turns. We still have Monopoly on electronics.

Focused entirely on buildings and tech trades. We have a strong artillery force but very little offense until tanks roll. Radio is due in 35 turns and is a long shot at best even now. War can be brought on Korea or Zulu right now but I think it would be smarter to build up some units first.

Here is the save: http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1450AD.zip

Originally posted by hotrod0823
1450 AD (10): Mandalgovi riots :wallbash: missed it :smoke: fix and scroll the rest to make sure.

The riot mistakes just happens occasionally. Don't worry. But using scroll ahead is NOT allowed in our game.

Got it.

:blush: :spank:

Minimum research cost us 110gpt. This is way too much for 40 turns on radio. While minimum research is good in the beginning, where you 10% will usually be 1gpt up to at most 10gpt it is useless later in the game. Either don't research at all or use a lone scientist or do full research. Macao is totally corrupt at size 6 without an aquaduct or fresh water and can support our scientist.

Much to my surprise we still had 4 warriors, 6 spears, 1 sword, and 3 pikes. I disbanded the warriors and sent the other into our border cities for flipp prevention. Then I disbanded our catapult and our cannon.

We desparately need more workers. 25 and a couple of slaves would not have been enough for an industrious civ.

1455 AD: Rome signed Korea against Zulus. All Korean cavs and lots of infantry move into our territory.

Next turn with more than 10k gold and all Korean cavs ready for being killed I tried a save steal from Wang, since I don't want to part with electronics. We succeed.

Combustion to Zulu gives us ivory, 52gpt and 45g. We can break that deal when desired, as we get the per turn payment and gave the immediate part.

Hoover finishes and we sell our coal plants in 1475 AD. With all those Korean units inside our territoy I again try for a steal in Korea for the newly aquired technology of mass production. I fail, but our spy got away. Next try next turn succeeded.

Cesar got Electronics and traded it with Wang for mass production. He had no cash for mass production which I would have sold to him. So no real harm has been done.

Otherwise I concentrated on infrastructure and workers. now we have 44 workers. We might stop at slightly above 50 workers, but even 60-70 wouldn't hurt.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2-AD1500.zip)

I've got it now.

I had an hour of free time today and I thought I could get in 10 easy builder turns...... Here are my notes so far:

1500AD-0 I see that we only have 5 more turns of oil. Too bad Wang does not have any to take. Is Shaka and Wang doing all the fighting in our land or what????

IBT Rome ends gems and GPT for our wines. Renew but he will not chip in any GPT. I will take his 37g and WM.

Where did this come from?!?!?!?!?!?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Zulu_war.JPG


Defeat an inf at Ulsan and loose a few slaves.

1505AD-1 Building projects going to inf and cav as they complete. Mobilize artillery to clean up our land. Killing guerilla near Kyoto gets us Tolui! Take that Shaka.



Will have to play Monday night.

6gntxn

Looks like Shaka wants us to have his oil! :hammer:

Let's take a nice chunk of Zulu land, at least. Would be nice to get them good and gassed--get tanks and run 'em over. Without looking at the save--that may not be a viable option. Ah well.

As usual, no hurry, Texan. Even if you and JMB finished by Tuesday--I will not likely be able to play before Wednesday at the earliest.

Good luck with the :hammer:

Seeing how deep into Zululand is their oil, I decide to rush Battlefield Medicine in Canton. Trade a vet cavalry for 2 artillery, 5 infantry a slave and two promotions to elite.

IBT Lose 3 more slaves and a cavalry near Osaka.

1510AD-2 Trade a cavalry for 3 infantry and the great Kublai. :thumbsup: Two elite victories in two turns. Time for an army and the Heroic Epic.

IBT Lose 2 infantry.

1515AD-3 Kill an infantry and start the HE in Daland. Disconnect one rubber source.

IBT Lose 2 cav's and kill an infantry. Shanhai, Hovd & Canton riot with 26% WW. :cringe:

1520AD-4 Kill another infantry. Raise lux to 20% because we can afford it.

IBT We lose our oil. We only needed it for a navy that we have no use for. I did manage to get a battleship first. ;)

1525AD-5 Kill 4 infantry in Osaka and get the great Mongke. :cool: Unfortunately we lost the army by one HP from taking Osaka. :aargh: The Army only had 2 cavalries in it. Rush minor buildings along Korean border. Lose 11 shields by hitting univ not cath in Hangchow.

IBT Korea captures Umfolo and a source of rubber but there is no harbor.

1530AD-6 That last infantry in Osaka killed a 5/5 and a 3/5 cavalry before losing the final HP. Flight is available form Wang and Caesar. Caesar will take ivory and 3000g. I won't be building airports and we do not have oil so I am passing for now. Rush some police stations.

IBT have to renegotiate the Furs and Silks from Caesar. He has no gold to give so it is now straight lux for lux.

1535AD-7 Capture Swazi only losing an elite Keshik. Call me greedy, but I went for a leader. :mischief: Rush some more police stations.

1540-1545AD Rush police stations and wait for cavalry production to pick back up.

IBT Zulu-Korean war ends.

1550AD-10 Lose 2 cavalries but finish off the 6 units in and around Hlobane. And Another Great Leader Ogodei emerges from the ruins. :yeah: He is sitting in Karakorum waiting on orders. That Elite* cavalry is out side Hlobane with the army of one Elite* cavalry.

Edo and Choybalsan are popping workers every 2-3 turns each. A lot of builds completed this turn so you may want to build some arty or inf. I went Cav Crazy. I have 4 cav's in a galleon with a battleship escort heading to Tugela on the island. With Wang not at war now, we may need to beef up that border.

WOW!! Four Great Leaders when I was expecting some quiet turns. :crazyeye:



The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2-AD1550.zip)

I see it and will try to play tonight...

JMB

0 - Use Ogodei to form another army (to be filled with infantry). Move a bunch of troops around. Rush a commercial dock in Ta-Tu. Rush granary in Ulsan (and MM to delay growth for one turn...). IBT, the Zulu bombard our newly created army. Wang Kon attempts to plant a spy.

1 - Troop movement... IBT, :mad: Rome takes Bapedi (the Zulu city with oil).

2 - Well, I think the pRNG hates me today... I lose over 9 cav trying to capture a size 2 city and end up having a 1 hp infantryman (who took out three 5/5 cavs and a vet cav :eek:!!) still defending the city. We capture a zulu artillery. Well, both Caesar and Wang Kon have entered the Modern Age... I decide to purchase our way into the Modern Age. MT from Korea for Dyes and 170 gpt, Flight for 240 gpt, and Radio for 220 gpt. Korea's free tech was rocketry. I consider attempting to steal it from them (if he declared war on us, he's an idiot...), but war with him would be a bit of a pain to deal with right now. I'll wait a turn or two... ;) IBT, we lose a rifleman and several workers to a Zulu cavalryman.

3 - That stupid infantryman takes out another 3 or 4 cavalrymen (even though redlined) before finally dying... We capture the city. An elite cav takes out a cav, giving rise to Jochi! He becomes another army. Hurry temple in Hlobane. IBT, a musketman takes out a cavalry and our people want to build the Pentagon...

4 - I purchase oil from Rome (110 gpt; I can't believe I forgot to do this earlier) so that we can begin building tanks... Hurry temple in Isand.

5 - Hurry factory in Tset. We capture Intombe and the Great Wall. IBT, we complete the Military Academy. Unfortunately, we lose Tugela to the Romans (they defeated the last defender just as our reinforcements arrived...)

6 - Hurry factory in Erdenet. Not much else...

7 - Not much.

8 - We finally redline all the defenders in Ulundi and capture the city. Purchase Spices off of Korea for 70 gpt (to deal with WW). The Romans want an ROP, MPP and 6 gpt. We decline. IBT, the Romans have 2 cav armies on our continent. We capture Tokyo. Hurry temple in Ulundi and factory in Baruun-Urt.

9 - We capture Zimbabwe. Hurry temple in Intombe. IBT, I lose several workers because I didn't pay enough attention...

10 - We capture Ngome and JS Bach's! We should be able to take Mpondo (the last Zulu city) next turn. I have left a stack of artillery unmoved (outside Zimbabwe). I suggest we bring them down to the Korean front, and then once our war with the Zulu is concluded, steal Rocketry from the Koreans in the hopes of getting them to declare war on us.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1600AD.zip

Have fun Bam-Bam!

JMB

@JMB It looks like I took all of you good Luck. :D

IHT

Move arty SOD toward Korean front. Koreans get Fission--start UN and Manhattan on the first interturn. We cannot beat them to it, and with soon to be only three civs left (Korea being the smallest), there will be a three-way race--inconclusive.

1605 (1) The zulu are nixed, losing one tank and getting three promotions. Looking at the Roman military (>250 inf)--a conquest/domination victory will be a challenge. I think Space is our best option, but I am open to suggestions. Lots of MM to get 80spt or 50spt. Putting some unis on order to support future research capabilities.

IT: Rome declares on Korea. We need to get in on this action.

1610 (2)

Rushed culture buildings complete in most captured zulu cities. Graneries ordered up to speed growth. More tanks and arty complete. Careful steal against Korea fails, but no war.

IT: Gems-wines deal with Caesar expires. I decide to not pursue it further.

1615 (3) Pentagon completes. Dalanzadgad is able to pump a tank per turn. More MM. Another failed steal from Korea--no attention attracted.

IT: Catch Wang attempting to plant a spy. Rome has fission--starts UN and Manhattan.

1620 (4) Pollution screws up our 101spt city GRR. Immediate steal works against Wang. We have Rocketry.

1625 (5) More tanks and arty.

1630 (6) Another immediate steal works--we have fission. Uranium is hooked up--aluminum is reachable in one of our captured zulu cities.

IT: 300g re-ups dyes and ivory for furs and silks deal with Caesar.

1635 (7) Nothing of note. More tanks and arty.

1640 (8) Nothing of note

IT: Rome razes a korean controlled zulu city. P'yongyang completes Manhattan.

1645 (9) Settler heads over to newly created gap from the razed city. This is the 2nd turn in a row I tried a spy mission (expose enemy spy) to get Korea to declare--each time our spy was caught, no war, and then I replanted successfully.


1650 (10) Nothing much. Rome is now at tech parity.

I have all the current military builds rallying at Baruun-Urt. Two turns left on the gpt tech deals and the lux supplying deal with Korea. We have another deal that lasts longer, but that is us buying a lux for gpt, so feel free to break that one. Time to take back our continent. Don't forget to re-up the oil deal with Rome. Aluminium will be hooked up either by using a colony or roading and waiting a few turns for Intombe's culture to expand. Hotrod, you have 51 tanks, 50 arty, 33 cavs and three armies (one cav, one tank, and one infantry) to apply some :hammer: We are building 4.5 tanks/turn and 2 arty a turn. Have fun, Hotrod!!

:hammer: time (http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1650AD.zip)

Once we have our gpt back from Korea--then it's time to research. I suggest computers first--with a nice round of research labs to follow and Seti. That should give us the edge over Rome.

Roster

Bam-Bam (just played)
Hotrod (UP)
Urugharakh (ON DECK)
6thGenTexan
JMB

I've got it will try to play tomorrow. Saturday afternoon the latest.

Quick update: I've started a war with Korea. Taken the capital and another city about 2 take 2 more. Should be able to wrap it up in the next few turns.

I have played 4 and will not be able to finish until tomorrow. :(

I had a date with my wife :D

No worries, Hotrod. Date with wife trumps :D

1650 AD (0): We have 2 turns on gpt deals to Korea but there is a leader I would love to take out. I ask him to move on and he does.

1655 AD (1): Tabriz builds a collesseum starts a battleship. Erdenet a bank
starts Hospital. Baruun-Urt a bank starts police station. Secure our aluminum but won't build a colony as we will have it in 5 more turns. Have a few nice stacks ready to hit Korea.

1660 aD (2): I declare war on Koreans. Kill all units in our lands about a dozen. Lose about 5 tanks to wounded infantry and guerillas. Bomb and capture Cheju and liberate 1095 gold. Take out the radar near Seoul. Use some cavs to take out radar near Taejon and Pyongyand.

1665 AD (3): Pound Seoul destroy every improvement, red or Yellow line all units. Knock it down to 13 then attack and take the city. Decide to hold it and Smiths, Newtons, and sistenes. NOt to mention 1400 gold. Press on to Hit Pyongyang and Pusan the new capital in a few turns, diconnect his uranium.

1670 AD (4): Seoul is starving :D! Reup the oil deal with Rome, oil for wines, 1000 gold and 90gpt. Pound and Capture P'yongyang and the Manhattan Project. Hit Pusan and get a leader. Move the leader to the Capital, would consider holding him until Internet is available with no real need for another army just yet.

1675 AD (5): Rome took the Korean city of Taejon. Bomb and capture Namp'o and 1690 gold. Bomb and capture the Korean capital of Pusan and more gold. Attack Wonsan but didn't have enough units to take the city. Block passage for the Romans to attack. I will fall next turn.

1680 AD (6): Barely take Wosan, Rome blocked my path but we had enough units to kil 3 rifles and 1 infantry losing the cav army to a regular rifle :(. Caputer Magellan's and 1283 gold. Korea is gone. Swap all towns to universities if possible. We will need MA to hit Rome if we want to. I will go with the premis of a Space victory and get started on some much needed universities. Spend some gold :D. Rushed a few improvements around the territory. Turned on Research and Ecology is due in 11 with -85 gpt.

1685 AD (7): A whole lotta buildings built more started. core cities with out libraries got them. Rome has Space flight and will not trade. We have 10500 for a steal attempt.

1690 AD (8): More pollution more buildings a few more units.

1695 AD (9): More builings more consolidation of units. Ecology in 7.

1700 aD (10): More of the same. A few more units etc.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-1700AD.zip

Nice work, Hotrod. I expected that Korea would be finished by the end of your turns.

Unless there is a strong objection---we will go for space. I am not up to a cross continent modern war invasion, and I want to take the "no prebuild" premise of this varient all the way through to the end.

That being said, if there is strong desire for some :hammer: on Rome (revenge from RBP10b would be one), then we can go that way.

After ecology, we should hit computers and rush Seti and massively build research labs. I do not think that miniturization is worth it--even with a rushed internet available with the leader.

Good luck Urugharakh!

Roster:

Bam-Bam
Hotrod (just played)
Urugharakh (UP)
6thGenTexan (ON DECK)
JMB

Got it.

Perhaps Seti would be a better choice. We will have a strong research core once they all get universities of for that matter libraries built.

Rome's research is slow they are only up Space Flight and we have a lot of gold to spend if we really want it. I could've changed from Ecology as we didn't have any turns invested in it but it would at least give the option of pushing towars MA's and war if we wanted it.

A NO ICBM part prebuild space race sounds like a good idea. Destruction of Rome will have to come at later date. ;)

I tried to get most of our units centralized but rushed a bit at the end to get the game posted so I could get to sleep.

I'm going to have to be skipped this turn. I'll be at the in-laws and Civ-less until Saturday.

6thGenTexan

@ Hotrod. Like I said in my last post--I agree that Seti is the right priority. Most of our productive cities can build research labs in 4 turns anyway--and we have the cash to rush the rest in that time, which is less than 6-8 turns the detour would be to miniturization anyway.

@ Texan. Let's see when Urugharakh gets the game back--many of us are offline during this holiday, so waiting until Saturday is not completely out of bounds (it's not like this has been a tremendously fast-paced game :p ). Perhaps you and JMB can switch? Does that work for you JMB?

I can probably play on Wednesday evening or Saturday afternoon/evening. After that, it'll be Monday before I can play. So, yes, I can switch.

JMB

Right. Sounds like a plan.

Urugharakh (PLAYING)
6thGenTexan (in the hole--switched with JMB)
JMB (ON DECK)

So we want trying a space victory without prebuilds with Rome the only AI left? I doubt Cesar will leave us alone but lets go ahead. We need research labs in all our productive cities and superb city management for our goal. Preturn I spent ~5k of our gold for more libaries and universities. Then a finetuned mm saves 20gpt.

For better research we should sell Rome our technologies @ monopol prices and don't waste our potential on trading. Hence stealing eventual technologies from Rome is essential. Another bunch of gold is spent on a save steal and we have space flight. Dalandzadgad starts Apollo immediately. Hm, from over 10k to less than 2k before I even started with my 10 turns.

Without the need for flip suppression our spears, swords and muskets are of no use at all and are disbanded. Same is true for rifles and cavallry which will be all disbanded during my turns.

First turn no worker shows up while we they have so many things to do. I then discover they were all fortified. I wake them up and let them work for their money.

While not gaining another turn on our research my effords pay of that we now make 130gpt instead of paying 110gpt for our current research speed.

Rome got computers in 1720 AD. Our saved money was spend on stealing computers in 1725 AD. But we don't need seti. Our leader sould be saved for the last space ship part. There is a good possibility, that even our most productive city will not outproduce a roman city with their 60% discount and we might loose the race. We start research labs in our core cities even at the cost of switching through wealth in some cities.

We discover ecology in 1730 AD. Cesar will pay 58gpt and all his 2743g. All he could afford. This is definitely not the monopol price
he should have paid but quite reasonable in few of the fact that researching it after our discovery would cost him only half his normal research cost. Not selling immediately, but we will sell soon.

Unfortunately Rome lost all their gpt next turn and I wo't part with ecology for merly 2.5k gold.

Concerning our peaceful space race

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2_AD1740.JPG

We lost a single defending infantry in Intombe and our defending battleships killed 2 roman ones. Organizing our military took some time. After heavy artillery use U promote a couple of tanks to elite.

Our available leader will now take seti as we have a decent chance of getting a new one. As I started a settler and prefer a city directly on the oil we

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Bam2_AD1745.JPG

Finally we capture Taejon at the cost of 3 tanks and our continent is ours.

Pollutuion in Canton delays Seti by one turn.

I started a few airports. As soon as our oil is online (next turn after settling on it) we need some jet fighters to shoot down enemy bombers. Usually settling on oil should be avoided, butr in our case the city will not be productive and the extra defense against bombardmend is good. We do need a navy once our research lab production is finished.

Don't forget mm Dalandzadgad back to shields using workers for tile management after it reaches size 19 or 20 depending on the shield output of Ulaanbaatar and Dalandzadgad.

We now have enough elite tanks. Lets hope for some roman invaders and another leader.

Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2-AD1750.zip)

I should have known that Caesar would not be content with peace in our time.

JMB, before you play, let's get a take on the current situation:

Question for the team:

Should Caesar pay for his atrocity by being wiped from the earth?? I think this is a more difficult (and more time consuming option)

I vote :hammer: :slay: :rocket: :ripper: :rocket2: :sniper: :ar15: :die: [plasma] (I still have a chip on my shoulder from RBP10b :p ).

I would like to hear everyone's voice on this before JMB starts his turns.

I don't see any reason for JMB delaying his turns due to our vote or our general game situation. We MUST keep our research and infrastructure anyway regardless of our decision. He MUST build a navy and some airfore regardless of our decision. We must have transports available in 20-30 turns because we might have to destroy the roman space ship. Without upgrade ability we have to build up our mech infs and modern armors soon anyway. He will not have the option of invading the roman continent in his 10 turn due to the lack of navy, MIs and MAs. The same applies to his successor. Furthermore we will stay at war at least 20 more turns until the nuke danger will become serious. Let Cesar stay in communism, let him hire clowns without our luxes. The only reason for peace would be nuke danger or him having reasonale amount of cash for buying tech from us.

With respect to victory, the space race would be considerable more challenging and the best option for our scenario, where a military victory looked like the only available option. Winning on space without destroying Cesars space ship would be a superb performance. Eliminating him would be easy and not worth a tale. Hence I vote for space victory.

P.S.: I still owe Cesar a free invasion in Epic 36. So I further lack desire crushing him. :)

Agree we need the research infrastructure. Still not convinced a "space without destroying Rome's spaceship" is a more challenging and satisfying victory, but I am willing to listen.

Play on JMB. We will prepare to crush when and if necessary.

Alright, I see it and will play tonight... Personally, I like the Space option, but that is mostly because I have dealt with a few modern age D-day beachhead invasions and they aren't particularly fun (and are, IMO, very time-consuming)...

JMB

I think we can have the best of both worlds. Take his islands and make a stand on Roman soil all the while building our space ship. If we are at War with Rome he may not even bother with parts. Or at least we can hope.

Early: Everything looks great. :eek: I can certainly see why we need a navy and an airforce!!! Take out a couple of battleships. Some cities riot; I don't understand why as they had an equal number of happy and sad faces. Rome landed a cav army, two tanks, and a mech inf. I take a chance and use our GL to rush a battleship (hoping to get another GL). Unfortunately we don't get one while taking out the Roman units. Pollution sucks...

Middle: Rome lands a sizeable invasion force (16 units) that we clean up (no GLs... :( ) without a problem. War weariness is becoming a bit of a problem.

End: Rome lands another 23 units and while killing them, we get another GL -- I think I'll save this one... ;) Since we need to run 40% lux and there is no real point in continuing this war (Rome is already in communism), I decide to end it. I take peace straight up because Caesar can't pay any gpt and we might want to go to war with him before 20 turns elapse. As most of our cities are working all available tiles, I decide not to purchase any luxuries from Rome. I also suggest that we don't sell Caesar any luxes (to keep him hurting...). Rome is up satellites and we are up synth fibers. 6 (or 7 turns) to superconductor.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/BAM2MG1770AD.zip

JMB

Hope everyone had a good holiday weekend (for those of us in the states).

Because of the switch--6thGenTexan is UP

Roster:

Bam-Bam (ON DECK)
Hotrod
Urugharakh
6thGenTexan (UP)
JMB (just played)

If I do not hear from 6thGenTexan before 8pm EST tonight, I will take the game to keep things moving.

Hope all is well with you Texan.

Early

Complete stasis chamber, Move slider to get Superconductor in 5 turns. Exterior casing completes in 1778.

Middle

First transports roll off the lines--massing the fleet to go after Rome if needed (I don't think it will be). Superconductors comes in--Beijing and Dalandzadgad start parts right away. Nuc power due in 7 at a minor deficit. Rome has not learned any new techs--still in communism and only researching at 40%. Rome learns Synth fibers in 1784, starts its 3 parts.

Late

Fuel cells and Life Support complete. Rome completes its 5th part (2 in production). Lots of Roman battleships and transports moving--looks like another attack coming on Hotrod's turns.

We are up superconductors, and are two turns from Nuc. Power. The military is massed near Beijing, including the leader. Transports are moving (most with escorts, some hopping city to city) to Namp'o, which can deliver troops right next to Rome with only one turn at sea. I think we can out research to the Laser before Caesar can get it and superconductors--and satellites is only five turns @ 2nd. That part is 320 shields, which can be leader-rushed for the win. We should be able to complete the win in about 15 turns (2 to Nuc power, 7 to Laser, 5 to Satellites and 1 to rush-build the last part). Caesar will need at least ten turns to get all the required techs @ 4 turns/tech (which is much faster than he is researching). At five turns per tech, he needs 12 turns. I think this one is in the bag.

Hotrod, you may want to see if you can buy off Caesar's sneak to save some trouble--otherwise, he is not much of a threat ATM, except for the nukes :eek: (6 ICBMS and more tacticals). I think you are in for some interesting turns, Hotrod!

The Game (http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/BAM2-1790AD.zip)

I see it but will not get to it until late tomorrow the earliest

What I expect the Romans to do is to land their troops before the end of the 20 turn peace, but not sneak attack until the 20 turns is up. I cannot remember any time where the AI did not keep 20 turns of peace (except when provoked by spy actions or demands to leave territory).

I say let them land, surround them with lots of tanks, MI, and Modern Armor. Then renegotiate the peace deal--giving another 20 turn peace. Do not demand that they leave, since I am sure they will declare.

Normally, I would not care if Rome wants to war with us. Since Caesar has nukes, I would like to avoid the war, so that we can complete our research and launch the ship. Caesar learned Synth Fibers in 1784, and has not learned Nuc power in the subsequent 6 turns. The only possible way we can lose is if Rome gets gets nuc power or superconductor next turn, and that the remaining two techs (Superconductor/nuc power and the laser) take 6 turns each, and he builds the last part in one turn (1+6+6+1=14). We need 15 turns, and I have seen no evidence that Rome has a 160spt city, or a saved leader. That's worst case analysis, since at best, Caesar can research at 7 turns @ 2nd. I think he has been more like 8 turns/tech.

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
What I expect the Romans to do is to land their troops before the end of the 20 turn peace, but not sneak attack until the 20 turns is up. I cannot remember any time where the AI did not keep 20 turns of peace (except when provoked by spy actions or demands to leave territory).
I saw it happen several times. A tactic not unusual for an aggressive AI.

Urugharakh,

Do you mean that you have seen the AI land (before the end of peace) and then attack after the peace ends, or

the AI attacking before the peace ends?

The latter.

Originally posted by Urugharakh

I saw it happen several times. A tactic not unusual for an aggressive AI.

I can confirm this one in PTW

How's it coming, Hotrod?

@Urugharakh--thanks for the clarification.

@Belisar--thanks for the info.

Coming ??? !!! :wallbash: :blush:

Bit of a feast mode and LK56 has turned out to be a long 10 turns. Should have it for you tomorrow late.

Hotrod

No worries. I expected that you were in feast mode.

I’m back now. My stay at the in-laws was unexpectedly extended a week. Last Friday night, we learned the hard way that my wife had an ectopic pregnancy and she underwent emergency surgery. We are home now and she will be fine and will take it easy for the next 6 weeks. That will force me to lessen my Civ time for a while. Since this game is near the end, I just watch y’all beat the evil Romans.

Bam 2

1790 AD (0): Nuclear Power comes in 2 turns. We have ships ready to hit Rome if necessary. IF the part number 9 gets completed I will have no choice but to hit the capital. We are up by superconducter and behind Satellites. :hmm: to trade or not to trade. Press space bar

1792 aD (1): The Romans have landed I will ignor them for now. Rome will not part with Satellites. I really could use some lux as a few cities will riot without lux or lux tax. If I trade Superconductor to rome for Gold and lux I may be able to steal Satellites. A bit too risky but just a thought. Will go the safe route and try to out research a deity AI :eek:. We just don't have the gold to make that play.

1794 AD (2): Rome lands another party on our lands. Nuclear Power comes in and we start on Satellites, due in 4. Okay now the play. I trade Nuclear Power and Superconductor to Rome for Satellites, furs and 2500 gold. We can research laser in 5 turns. Running 100% lux -752. Dalandzadgad starts on Thrusters.

1796 AD (3): Cover the Roman units with our tank force and he will be forced to make a decision to attack or not. Rome has been moving units all across the countryside so I have used our tank force to hem him in. The laser is due in 4. Running -714 gpt but we have 2939.

1798 AD (4): Rome Declared as expected taking a few tanks out. Many cities riot with WW at 12% and the loss of the furs. Hire clowns. Pollution is a real problem now. Thrusters due in 2 turns. Laser in 3 turns. Wipe out all Roman forces on our soil and take out a few battleships, transports and carriers with our artillery and battleships. :hammer: :D

1800 aD (5): Rome attacks and takes 2 battle ships and bombs the heck out of our northern towns. They just completed there 6th and 7th parts. Continue to put a hurtin' on the Roman fleet.

1802 AD (6): :eek: massive amounts of Rioting and without scroll ahead lose production on our next to last part. Rome completed another piece. Laser due next turn -768 gold with 797 in the bank and 10% lux to help the WW.

1804 aD (7): Laser comes in and our 9th part (Thrusters complete). Leader rush the planetary lounge in Dalandzadgad and up lux to 30% Just in case.

1806 AD (8): Massive rioting again but the lounge completes and we launch [party] our score 4367 second to rome at 5478.

Hope everything is okay with your family Texan.

Nice work Hotrod! Well played by all. :goodjob: Great way to wrap up (I think) PTW succession games.

Texan--I hope you and your family are well.

Thanks to everyone for the game. Special thanks to Hotrod for taking the last turns from me.

This was way too easy and definitely not the screw you position of Epic 12. Nevertheless outresearching a deity AI and launching under serious restrictions was good performance.

Originally posted by Urugharakh
Thanks to everyone for the game. Special thanks to Hotrod for taking the last turns from me.

This was way too easy and definitely not the screw you position of Epic 12. Nevertheless outresearching a deity AI and launching under serious restrictions was good performance.

I call it--"playing with ringers" :lol:

Let me see, assemble a team that includes the following credentials 1) first documented AWD winner, 2) lone winner of "screw you" Epic 12, 3) 2 members of the victorious RBE "Beyond Deity" SG, 4) 1 member of the victorious LK53 5CC Deity Conquest SG, 5) 1 member of the Honorable Deity win RBE3 SG, etc. That's even with another well-known player sitting on the sidelines after a botched mod. :p

Guess I'll have to come up some additional challenge :eek: to pull in some more ringers... :scan:

Seriously, thanks for a good game, folks. A pleasure to play and watch a team dismantle a tough deity variant.

Thanks for the game Bam-Bam (and everyone else too...). The game did seem fairly easy although we did have a great crew.

Thanks again!

JMB

Well done gang. :goodjob: Additional thanks go to Rome for wiping out half the compition. I'm looking forward to your next challange.

My wife is doing fine. With an aunt in town to help out, all my wife has to do is rest, relax and find ways to keep me off the computer.

6gntxn

For the folks on this team--has everyone gotten conquests? Are you interested in a conquest SG, or would another :eek: PTW deity variant be preferable?

I have conquests. I would prefer another PTW variant to avoid the problems with C3C.

I haven't bought conquests yet and probably won't until after Christmas (or later). So, another PTW deity game might be interesting... (but, I have been getting a bit tired of the game recently, so maybe I should instead take a bit of a break (other than the most recent Epic))

JMB