I have been working on a Mod for England to improve the Man-O-War. Change the Naval movement (Similar to GOTM but not exactly ;) ) and the function of a few wonders.

Is there any interest?

This would be a Standard Map with continents or Peligo with low water.

Difficulty Demi-God or Deity

I will post more specific details later today.

Not looking to start until late next week.

Hotrod

I would like to join.
My vote would be Demi-God.

If we be sailors, then I would vote for Continents, 80% water (but large map). But Standard size, Peligo, low water is cool too.

I'd love to play, but I'm new to emperor so Deity or Demi-god will definitely be too difficult.

Good idea though!


[Oops spelled deity wrong :) )

Thanks for the interest RubberJello and Nobody!

RubberJello will add you to the roster and keep you posted as to the progress of the scenario.

As far as difficulty Nobody we really can't drop to Emperor as the crew that has been playing the HOT series has been less and less challenged of late.

I'm interested. I've always had good luck with England.

Okay coffee will keep you posted

I'm interested in knowing exactly what you've done to the Man'O'War :)

I'm also interested in joining this game. Demi-God or Deity is fine with me.


Ted

No promises but it should be interesting. I will get a bit of the details of the modifications up tonight and we can go from there.

I would like to go with a minimum of 5 but we can start with four.

Thanks for joining us Ted :D.

Roster:

Coffee
RubberJello
Ted Jackson
Hotrod
(open Spot)

I have completed the mod but have only been able to do limited testing. We can get this game started this week and see how things go. Let me review and post the details.

Hotrod

Go ahead and sign yourself up for another SG. This will guarantee that You will be up in all of them at the same time. :D

Call me crazy but I'm up for another game.

-6gntxn

Well...

that looks to be a quorum... :)


Ted

Okay we are ready to roll will post the start and the final details tonight!

checking in.

A few details about the game

Barbs: Spears and Horsemen and Privateers

Level: DemiGod

Wonder changes: Magellen's builds a harbor in every city

Ship Movement: Coast 2, Sea 3, Ocean 3

All Ships have double the movement Rate

Man-O-War: Added Lethal Bombardment Sea and Land and Zone of Control. 3,2,6 With 2 rate of fire and a bombard strength of 3. An improvement I am not sure but we will find out.

Layout: Standard Peligo Map with 40% water. Roaming Barbs, Normal Cool, Flat

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/hot8start.JPG

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-4000BC.zip

The goals is victory! Any is acceptable domination is always prefered :hammer:. I am looking to see if we can tweak sea travel abit and in what better way than to give a weak UU a bit of a push. Is it significate I don't know lets find out.

Coffee
RubberJello
Ted Jackson
Hotrod
6thGenTexan

Take it away Coffee!

got it. Will play the standard 20t.

Why yes ! 20 - 20 - 10 on out

Oh yeah made them blue just to be different. If anyone notices any problems in the mod let me know early so I can take a look at it. I have tested it but it was very limited.

4000BC - 0
Move worker & scout. Settle on the start tile
Start BW & reduce science.
London -> warrior

3950
3900
3850

3800BC - 4
Pop a hut -> Cerimonial Burial

3750BC - 5
London warrior -> granary

3700
3650
3600
3550

3500BC - 10
I meet Persia, trade CB, Alphabet & Pottery for Masonary, BW & 5g.
Start on Math.

3450
3400
3350
3300 - 14
3250
3200 - 16
3150
3100 - 18
3050

3000 - 20
London granary -> settler (vetoable)
London grows luxs -> 20%

Played a little cat & mouse with Persia's settler. Its a dry start in some difficult terrain.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-3000BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-3000BC.jpg

Tough start but I've seen worse :)

The Persians are a bit too close for comfort. We'll need to do something about them before very long.


Ted

*Looks around the waterless land*
What a piece of cr.... errr..uhmm...
Thanks for the "great" start, Hotrod! :D
(Has anybody found a sarcastic smilie yet?)

Sorry for the delay. I hope to play it tonight.

First up! First Played! I am not sure but this may be tougher than RBP10 :eek:. Lets see how things play out. Persia needs to be dealt with before immortals.

Coffee
RubberJello <---- playing now
Hotrod (on deck)
TedJackson
6thGenTexan

I will not be able to play until Thursday I am off to the game 6 of the ALCS tomorrow :D

2950 1

2750 5 Settler -> Warrior

2590 9 Found York on the hill next to the cow North of London (coast) Warrior produced -> Barracks.

2550 10 Persia knows Wheel and Warrior Code, won't deal for either. Persians start the Colossus.

2470 12 Scout gets turned around in Persian territory by a camped Spear at a bottleneck

2310 16 Barracks done, start Settler. Barb Spearman coming from the north

2150 20 Persian settler approaching from the South Settler due in 2. Please change Granary build in York if you wish. Mathematics due in 10. Persia is willing to sell tech now. Scout is annoying the Persian settler and denying them their desired site on the hill.

The Game 2150BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-2150BC.SAV)

Sorry about any weedy moves. I'm waaaaay out of practice with this type of tough start! The barracks was for maybe doing archer rush against persia, but it may already be too late for that.

I've got it but may not get it back tonight. I will try to get it up sometime late tomorrow.

Hot8

2150BC (0): Oh my it is a nice start isn't it. Drop research to 10 and do nothing else.

2110 BC (1): The Persian's settle a new city for us :devil2:

2070 BC (2): London builds a settler starts a warrior. Settler goes to claim the last bit of green to the West. warrior in the north steps out to protect our worker from the evil spears.

2030 BC (3): Kill a spear in the North settler is in position. A bit tight but at least its green.

1990 BC (4): London completed a warrior starts a settler. Found Nottingham and start a warrior.

1950 BC (5): Not much. warrior covers the worker.

1910 BC (6): kill a barb spear but lose my vet warrior in the process. Glad I backed off the idea for dinobarbs :D.

1870 BC (7): Not much

1830 BC (8): Math is due in 2 keeping fingers crossed.

1790 BC (9): Nottingham builds a warrior starts a worker.

1750 BC (10): Math comes in and start on Mysticism. It can be changed and maybe it should be but I don't think we have a shot at writing at this point and myst seemed as good a choice as any. London builds a settler starts a warrior. Math and 60 gold gets us the Wheel and Warrior Code. We are horse Free. BTW changed to the little known Currency gambit :lol: Persia already has Myst and most likely is working on Writing or HBR so why not currency. It can be changed ofcorse.

here is the save: http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-1750BC.zip

Whoop I just realized that I jumbled the roster up and swooped in ahead of Ted.

Sorry Ted! you didn't miss much

Coffee
RubberJello
Hptrod
TedJackson <---- playing now :blush:
6thgenTxan

Originally posted by hotrod0823

Hptrod


:lol: :lol: :lol:

hptrod...otherwise known as the SG starter who flips through 40 starts to try and find the worst start possible! ;)

hptrod...otherwise known as the SG starter who flips through 40 starts to try and find the worst start possible! :lol: :lol: I'd like to second that.

you all are tough ;)

Got it

Have you ever noticed that SGs are like buses? You wait ages for one then three come along at once :D

Not a problem Hotrod. I was up in 2 other games yesterday so I was glad of the break.


Ted

Originally posted by Rubberjello


:lol: :lol: :lol:

hptrod...otherwise known as the SG starter who flips through 40 starts to try and find the worst start possible! ;)


I thought he decided to search through the starts to find one with enought desert showing to have 8 deserts squares to match the SG name.

6gntxn

Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:

It makes my mouth dry, looking at all that desert. I'd better go and make a cup of coffee before I start :)

Press button

1 - 1725BC
Settler NW
Worker road (Cow)
Warrior fort on hill
Scout to York, disbands for 2 shields bringing Granary online a turn earlier
Hmmm, Persia has IW and look at all those hills and mountains. I'd be very surprised if they don't have an Iron source in that lot :(

IBT
London Warrior - Catapult (I know it's a bit early but if Immortals are on the map then we'd better be prepared)
York Granary - Barracks

2 - 1700BC
Settler NW
Warrior (London) heads for York

3 - 1675BC
Hastings founded (max territory) - Warrior (followed by Worker, followed by Barracks)
Warrior fort York
Lux 0%
Still no sale on IW from Persia

IBT
Nottingham Worker - Barracks

4 - 1650BC
Worker (Nottingham) E
Worker (NW York) road - SW

5 - 1625BC
Worker (E Notts) road
Worker (W York) road

IBT
London Catapult - Settler

6 - 1600BC
Catapult fort London

7 - 1575
Zzz...
Persia still won't sell IW

IBT
Hastings Warrior - Worker

8 - 1550BC
Worker (E Notts) road - 2SE
Warrior fort Hastings
Warrior (NW Hastings) N (barb patrol & scout)
Still no IW

9 - 1525BC
Worker (SSW London) mine
Barb Patrol NE
IW still unavailable

10 - 1500BC
Barb Patrol NE (hill)
London pop 4 so:
Lux 10%
Persia has Writing but won't trade that or IW

Our Little Island
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-1500BC.jpg

Notes
I think it very likely that Persia has Iron. They wouldn't be mining the hill NW of Arbela otherwise. So we need to be thinking about defense.
The upside is if NW Arbela is their only source of Iron then we could stage a denial raid, pillage and hold the hill.
The Northern Warrior should check that the Northeast is Coast. We'd look pretty silly if we found out later that the land up there hooks back round to the supposed island 3NE of York :)

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-1500BC.zip)


Ted

I've got it. I may not get to play it until late on Sunday. Company coming this weekend and I'll lose my office/gaming center/guest bedroom.

6gntxn

I was able to squeeze in a turn. :)

I do not remember anyone saying X-man has met the Ottomans. He wants 3GPT + 155g for the contact. Mysticism is the only tech we can purchase for 4GPT + 155g. Heres hoping Osman does not wait too long to buy our contact.

1475BC-1 Worker extending road to Hastings and warrior scouting.

1450BC-2 London settler-->settler York barrack-->spear...growth stunted at 3 until harbor built. Souting warrior finds barb camp but does look like we can put a city NE of York across the bay. Settelr is heading NW of Hastings to get a costal square and pull in the game.

1425BC-3 Hastings worker-->barrack Defeat Barb spear 2-2 but horseman is next.

1400BC-4 Perians settler pair just outside our border. :eek: X-man must be out of room.

1375BC-5 Settler pair move into our territory and politely ask them to leave. Lost 6g by not dropping tax 3 turns ago. :crazyeye: We now have enough in the bank to buy contact straight up for 187g. I take it dropping our account to 4 to keep X-man from demanding any of it. Osman has IW and Myst but not Math. I take IW and 9g for Math. Our Iron is on the hill 3 squares north of Hasting. X-man has iron on the hill he was mining and on the mountain between Pasargadae and Persepolis.

1350BC-6 York spear-->archer Healed warrior defeats barb horsman 2-0 for 25g but does not promote. Persians settler keeps moving towards London. The spear from York will head south to annoy him.

IBT Our palace starts with a new entrance. Persians start 2nd wonder, the Pyramids, because they just completed The Colossus.

1325BC-7 move people

1300BC-8 London settler-->archer...down to size one. Loss of population requires science to go up to 20%. First settler is moving to claim a tundra square by moving to coast SW of game. Second settler will head to turndra lake NE of iron. The iron seems to be where the Persians are headed and we sould be able to blockade them.

1275BC-9 Cantebury founded and starts a warrior.

1250BC-10 York archer-->settler...only city big enough right now. The blockade is forcing the Persian settler westward to the open area between Hastings and Nottingham. That would be a free fishing village from him if he gives up on getting to the iron. :D X-man also connected up his second iron. No new techs and Myst will cost us 1GPT+74g from Osmon. I forgot to mine the cow but the worker mining by Hastings will be done next turn.


THE GAME (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-1250BC.zip)

got it.

Looking good! We are very dry and really need to get some boats out soonish. With the Ottomans around at least now we can have a possiblity of a 2fr.

Coffee <--- playing now
RubberJello (on deck)
Hotrod
TedJackson
6thGentexan

Originally posted by 6thGenTexan

1400BC-4 Perians settler pair just outside our border. :eek: X-man must be out of room.


And you know what that means ... :rolleyes:

You must see the positive aspects: London doesn't need an aqueduct, onl 4 acceptable land tiles. :lol:
And who cares that you are dry ? You have WINES, should taste much better ;)

1250 BC - 0
Nottingham -> temple, to work the forest tiles on expansion
Hasting -> spear, Persia will have to be dealt with soon.
York -> worker, York has a granary and we need 2 more workers.

tough start, lets see if this works.

1225 BC - 1
Continue the block on Persia settler.

1200 BC - 2
York worker -> spear
Meet the Jute, some pillaging coming my way.

I > spy an Immortal

1175 BC - 3
Coventry settled beside the glacial lake. Will get the salmon and last grassland. -> worker
Expansion is needed

I > Persia demand 23g, I cave. Warrioe defends against Jute spear.

1150 BC - 4
I whip the temple in Nottingham

1125 BC - 5
Buy writing from Persia staight up for 6gpt + 85g.
Nottingham -> cat

1100 - 6
London speart -> settler

1075 - 7

1050 - 8
Canterbury warrior -> archer
Hastings swaped to a temple

1025 BC - 9
Nottingham expands.

1000 BC - 10
The Persian spear/settler pair are no further advanced.
Suggest whipping Hasting when the cost is 1.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-1000BC.jpg

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-1000BC.SAV)

:hmm: is this the ice age !

coffee
RubberJello <--- playing now
Hotrod (on deck)
TedJackson
6thGenTexan

I see it. I can't play for another 18 hours or so. Family commitments beckon. Sorry!

975 BC Barb horse kills our Warrior in the North. Not an auspicious beginning.

950 BC London Settler->Warrior (Eventual mass sword upgrade?) York Spear->Spear

925 BC Nottingham Cat->Cat

900 BC London Warrior->Warrior. Still blocking Persian Settler.

875 BC nothing

850 BC Whip Temple in Hastings. Kill Barb horse with Warrior.

825 BC London Warrior->Warrior York Spear->Spear Hastings Temple->Cat. Persia has boats (they settled an island.) They know the Aztecs, Romans, and Greeks, and are up Myst, CoL, Mapmaking, and Horse Riding. Ottos don't know any of those. Time for some trading. Doh! Persia is insulted with every offer I give them, even Hotrod's first born son! I can't even trade our map away. I hope someone buys a comm with us, but most likely Ottos will get to know everyone also.

800 BC Egypt builds the Pyramids. Nottingham Cat->Cat. No change on the Diplo front.

775 BC London Warrior->Warrior Persians start Lighthouse. York Spear->Spear

750 BC We learn Currency. Min set on Construction. Carthage completes Great Library. (Whee! Isn't this fun?) Pop a hut and get Horseback Riding. Start roading Iron (Please stop them if you don't want it hooked up yet!) We have a monopoly on Currency! [dance] [party]
Currency and TM to Persia for Contact with Greeks and Romans.
Currency and Contact with Ottos to Rome for Contact with Aztecs, Mapmapking and 51 gold.
Currency and Contact with Ottos and 48 gold to Greece for Code of Laws and World Map.
Currency and Contact with Ottos to Aztecs for Mysticism, WM, and 96 gold.
Currency, Mapmaking, and CoL to Ottos for Polytheism and 99 gold.
Trade WM around for 100's more gold. We are at tech parity, got lots of gold, and maybe if we buy Ottos into an alliance against Persia, we could really squeeze them out.


The Game (750BC) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-750BC1.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hot8pic0011.jpg

Edit: Strategy talk.
I think we are at a crucial point here. I may have overbuilt our military (we are 4+ units over). Now that we know most of the rest of the world, we "could" be peaceful traders and live on the fringe of society (bottomfeeder) for the whole game and sneak a victory out in the end.
Or we could attack Persia and try to get some *decent* land and maybe be more of a contender for the rest of the game, at the risk of bad luck in an early war putting us hoplessly behind.
I did not reset our science goal or start any galley builds after all that trading...both probably need to be looked at. If we can discover (I assume) the big continent in the middle that holds Carthage and another Civ, we'll really be in a decent position going into the middle ages.

Ahright RJ, a 4fer, gold and meet the neighbors. Two big :thumbsup:

Got it

Great turns RJ :thumbsup:

You really wiped your bottom on those Construction Plans :D

I'll have a look at the save this evening then propose a plan.


Ted
p.s. looks like uploads are working again

We got really lucky. I have *no* idea why Persia did not trade contact with the Ottomans with anyone else, but it certainly helped us out!

:D The little known and little used Currency Gambit actually worked. :lol: Well done!

I think I would be good to hit Persia and actually get some green lands.

I've got it but will not play until tomorrow to allow a bit more discussion.

Hotrod

I just had a look at the map and Persia is about to settle and poach 1 tile from Nottingham. For a cold and arid map, thats an act of war.

I agree with suicide galleys. I agree with trading. I'd like to try the ship mod. Nothing decided. We could just wing it and see how that works. :lol:

After you Hotrod :)


Ted

750 BC (0): swap York to a harbor. we need all the food we can get ;) Swap Nottingham to our first galley. Build a couple embassies. Persia will finish GLight next turn. And another with the Ottomans just in case ;).

730 BC (1): Settler will found city next turn on the tundra to get more out of our iceberg.

710 BC (2): London builds a warrior starts on walls. Found warwick in the NE starts a worker.

690 BC (3): Iron is online. Hit a barb camp. Shuffle some units. Hastings builds a cat starts a baracks. Upgrade a few warriors to swords.

670 BC (4): We have 2 new communications, Arabia and Egypt. Everyone except Rome and Aztecs have Philo and Lit and contact with Carthage. No trades.

650 BC (5): Communications with Carthage again no trades. Have a stack ready to hit Persia but want to bring the archer from the north to claim some workers.

630 BC (6): London builds walls starts on swords. Nottingham builds a galley starts a cat. clear another hut. Buy lit for 85 gold and Wm from the Ottomans. Lit and WM to Rome for Philo.

610 Bc (7): Nada. New embassy with the Aztecs.

590 BC (8):

570 BC (9): Massive uprisings near Cantebury. Someone or rather 2 have construction. Everyone but us and Aztecs.

550 BC (10): Horsey barbs are on the NW coast and come and kill our archer. Aztecs now have construction. It can be bought for an arm and a leg so I hold off. A stack is ready to go if Ted so desires. Rather uneventful but I suspect the next ten will be a bit more exciting.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/HOT8-550BC.zip

Got it

I'll try to liven things up a bit :D


Ted

Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:

Pre-turn
We seem to be at the bottom of a deep, dark hole. Looking on the bright side, the only way out is up :)

Our Military Advisor tells me that our Armed Forces are average in comparison to Persia's. That's not really good enough against Immortals but the only way we'll get any better is by conquest it seems.

I'll try for a limited war to take Arbela (Iron) & Pasagardae (Wines). If I'm in reasonable shape after that then Persepolis (Capital) could be an option.

I'll wait for the Sword (London) & Catapult (Nottingham) both due next turn before I declare.

If Persia settle in the North I'll upgrade the 2 reg Warriors in Canterbury & Coventry to take them out

Move Northern Spear NW for better FoW dispersal
Galley NE (might use this to land a small defense force on the mountain SSW of Pasagae to deny Persia the Iron)

Press button
Hastings Barracks - Sword (6 turns)
Carthage & Ottoman start Sun Tzu
Rome starts Great Wall

1 - 530BC
Catapult (Nottingham) to SoD
Sword (London) to SoD
Vet Sword (2/4, Northerm Waste) S - spies barb horses both (1/2) to the West & Southwest. No sign of the Persian Settler/Spear :D
Reg Warrior (Northern Waste) W (support)
Vet Spear (Northern Waste) NW
Galley moves to Nottingham

IBT
Canterbury Barracks - Sword
Warwick Worker - Barracks

2 - 510BC
Declare war on Persia
SoD moves SE
Worker (SW Hastings) road - mine
Worker (NW York) mine - W
Worker (Warwick) NW
2 Workers (NE Coventry) road - E
Warriors (Northern Waste) join forces
Spear (Northern Waste) S
London grows to pop 5 so:
Lux 10%
Can't get an MA with Ottoman :(

IBT
Vet Spear kills attacking Immortal but is red-lined
Barb horse pops up W of Coventry
Ottoman start Great Wall

3 - 490BC
Assault force SE ot Iron Hill NW of Arbela
Injured Spear heads for London
Reg Warrior (Canterbury) E, attacks barb Horse NE - victory (2/3)
Reg Warrior (Northern Waste) vs barb Horse - victory (2/3)
Vet Warrior (Northern Waste) SE - spots 3 barb Horse to the W :(
Worker (2NE Hastings) road
2 Workers (2NW Warwick) road
Worker (NW Warwick) road
Spear (Northern Waste) S - heading to protect Workers
Canterbury grows to pop 4 so:
Lux 20% (can reduce next turn when Warrior returns)

IBT
York Harbour - Sword
4 barb Horse move 2SE to NNE Canterbury

4 - 470BC
Assault on Arbela:
Bombardment destroys Temple and reduces bothe Defenders to 2hp :)
Vet Sword vs reg Pike (2/3) - dies without landing a blow
Vet Sword vs reg Pike (2/3) - victory (3/4)
Vet Sword vs reg Spear (2/3) - victory (1/4)
Arbela captured with 16gp - starts Temple
Injured Spear fort London to heal
Spear (Northern Waste) SW
Warrior returns to Canterbury where I upgrade him for 40gp (healing him in the process)
2 Warriors (Northern Waste) fort to heal
Worker (2NW Warwick) road - SE
Lux 10%

IBT
Persia signs MA with Greece vs us
Greece starts Sun Tzu
We get the Forbidden Palace message
Persia start Sun Tzu
A barb Spear appears 2NW of Canterbury

5 - 450BC
Sword (1/4) fort Arbela
Spear fort Coventry
Sword fort Canterbury
Catapults (SW Arbela) bombard lone Immortal SW
Vet Sword vs reg Immortal (1/3) - victory (3/4)
Spear (London) 2S
Coventry switches to Barracks
Buy Dyes from Carthage for WM, 17gp + 5gpt (reduce chances of a dogpile)
Lux 0%

IBT
Vet Sword attacked by reg Immortal - kills the Immortal without suffering a scratch
London Sword - Worker (zero growth)
Nottingham Catapult - Worker (zero growth)

6 - 430BC
Catapult (Nottingham) boards Galley
Galley sails for NW Pasargadae
Assault on Pasargadae:
Bombard - knock 1hp off Pike
I don't fancy our chances so Troops dig in and wait for next turn
Sword (London) 2S
Vet Warrior (Northern Waste) vs barb Horse - dies red-lining Horse
Reg Warrior (Northern Waste) vs barb Horse - victory (2/3)
Worker (W York) moves to 2N of London

IBT
Hastings Sword - Sword
Aztecs found Teayo in the Northern Waste

7 - 410BC
Bombard Pasargadae - no damage
Spear fort Arbela
Sword (Arbela) joins Assault Group
Sword (Hastings) 3SE
Workers (NW Warwick) road - move to Coventry
Unload Catapult N of Pasargadae

IBT
Vet Sword killed by Immortal (N Pasargadae)
London Worker - Sword

8 - 390BC
Reg Warrior (Northern Waste) vs barb Horse - victory (2/3)
Bombard Pasargadae - red-line Pike & knock 1hp off Spear
Vet Sword vs reg Spear - dies red-lining Pike
Vet Sword vs vet Spear (2/4) - dies red-lining Spear
Vet Sword vs vet Immortal (2/4) - victory (2/4)
Vet Sword vs reg Pike (1/3) - victory (Bugger! there's a re g Archer in there as well)

IBT
Aztecs Sign MA with Persia vs us
We kill an Immortal and an Archer but lose our last Spear N of Pasargadae. Our Sword promotes to elite
York Sword - Sword
Arbela riots :smoke:
Notingham Worker - Sword
Canterbury Sword - Sword

9 - 370BC
Bombard Pasargadae - Temple destroyed
Elite Sword (4/5) vs Vet Spear (3/4) - dies red-lining Spear
Vet Sword (NE Canterbury) vs barb Spear - victory (3/4)
Reg Sword (Northern Waste) fort to heal
Sword (York) moves to N London

IBT
Egypt joins in the dogpile :(
Spear is killed by Horse at Pasargadae
barb Horse is killed by vet Sword in the North, promotes to elite (2/5)

10 - 350BC
Bombard Pasargadae - no damage
Workers roading...
Move reinforcements toward Pasargadae

Notes
Good start to the campaign but a poor finish :(
I've inadvertantly left our stack of Catapults defended only by a Sword (2/4) and Archer (4/4).
I really thought I'd got Pasargadae back in 390BC but that Archer popping up really threw my plan.
Surprisingly, no new techs have come up for sale.
The next player could pop-rush the Swords in London & Hastings if he so wishes.
I haven't bought anyone's WM yet. We could get Rome's for 180gp. I leave the decision to the next player.
We could also try building an Embassy with Carthage & seeing if we could get an MA vs Egypt as they both seem to be in the unknown area of the map.
I was just reluctant to spend all our treasury shortly before handing over.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-350BC.zip)


Ted
p.s. the screenshot's buggered so I'll have to do it again :)

....Errrr....I appreciate a challenge as much as the next person, but getting the entire world at war with us? :D That takes talent!

Haven't seen the map but its sounds good. Too bad about Pasargadae.
We can play an AW DemiGod game :goodjob: -> just kidding

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-350BC.jpg

@Rubberjello
You should see me when I'm really trying :D


Ted

:lol: Oh you all wanted an easy game!

sorry about that! Haven't seen that kind of Dogpile since LK45 I think it was.

Good luck to 6thGenTexan!

Coffee (on deck)
RubberJello
Hotrod
TedJackson
6thGenTexan <--- playing now

Hey we've only got Persia, Azteca, Greece & Egypt on our back. It's not like I went round thumbing my nose at everyone :D


Ted

:rotfl:

Originally posted by TedJackson
Hey we've only got Persia, Azteca, Greece & Egypt on our back. It's not like I went round thumbing my nose at everyone :DTed

Hah! You must have done more than that. You must have been waving *something* at them.
(And that "something" is illegal to wave in public in 23 of the 24 known civs!) :lol:*

*In Mongolia it is considered a compliment! :D

How exactly are you guys playing at demi-god difficulty when Conquests isn't out? I must be missing something....

@Dragoten - Hotrod used the editor to adjust the difficulty settings. Its a modification.

Does 6thGenTexan have it?

6gentex declared "Got it" on TH5 about 40 hours ago, and hasn't logged on or posted anything since then.
Possible computer/net access problems??? I played a couple of SG's with him, and he is usually pretty reliable.

Ah okay, that's what I figured...thanks :)

:hmm: Coffee if your free we can move on.

Coffee <--- playing now
RubberJello (on Deck)
Hotrod
TedJackson
6thGenTexan (AWOL) - Let us know when your back I understand losing computer access when visitors arrive ;)

got it

350 BC - 0
Looks good.
Upgrade 3 warriors to swords.
All civs have construction and all are building the great wall.

The 2nd iron at Arbela will be connected next turn. Most cities have swords queue'd
So I trade Osman iron for construction + 95g + alliance vs persia.

Carthage is up 2 techs, Arabia is up fuedalism. None have a government tech.
Start 40t on republic. We have entered the middle ages.

Ibt, Persia request an audeance I delcine. Immortal kill our defenders at Pasargadae and
we lose a stack of cats.

330 BC
Kill 1 lose 1 in the return.

310 BC - 2
I defend. I will need to get Persias last iron source to have a chance.

290 BC - 3
More immortals, more ouch. Lose 1 sword.

270 BC - 4
Immotals kill 2 more swords at Arbela. Arbela defended with 1 spear. I make peace for 25 gold.
Sorry for the the rep hit. Osman is furious.
Make peace with Greece for 60 gold.
Defeat an Aztec city in the glacier.

250 BC - 5
Start 3 settlers. Can't trade.
Start the FP in Coventry. I'm thinking like RJ was maybe. Trying for productive fishing
villages and trading.

230 BC - 6

210 BC - 7
Send three settlers north.
Aztecs will talk peace for 100g. I wait.

190 BC - 8

Ibt, Greece signs an MA against Osman :( I feel bad about that. :)

170 BC - 9

Ibt, Egypt signs an MA against Osman.

150 BC - 10
Settlers are on auto pilot and placed to get 6 sea squares at best. One more is in production.
Please veto as necessary.
Good luck. We really needed Pasargadae for the irrigation.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-150BC.SAV)

Sorry about the skip guys. What limited computer time I had went to TH5. I be back by my next turn.

6gntxn

We lost our Cats? I'm beginning to think this game is cursed. ;)

130 BC Nottingham Spear->Harbor, Hastings Spear->Sword. Carths start the Hanging Gardens. Newcastle (ice city #1) founded. Egypt wants 240 gold for peace. Monty wants 140 and calls our civilization "pathetic", and I'm inclined to agree! Buy territory maps from everyone to try to get back into the WM trading game. Try trading Iron and all we have to Osman for Republic (or any tech), with no luck. I save the trade for a couple of turns to see if something opens up.

110 BC London Spear->Sword Build Oxford and Liverpool on the icy wastes. Trade WM around for a net +12 gold. Aztecs price for peace is coming down, but not there yet. No other trades possible.

90 BC Send workers south to start leeching off the Persian's irrigated square north of Pasargadae! +9 gold for WM trading. No deals or peace yet.

70 BC York Spearman->Marketplace York Settler->Spear.

50 BC Racing a greek settler ship to the last spot in the icy north. Trade maps for +8 gold. Sign Iron deal with Ottomans for Gems and +29 gpt. Greece is the only nation willing to trade with us for techs. Trade for Republic for WM, 30 gpt, and 20 gold. Trade Republic + 11 gold + WM to Rome for Feudalism and WM. Make Peace with the Aztecs and they give us Monotheism and WM and 8 gold while we ship them Republic and Feudalism. Most of the rest of the world is now only up Monarchy and Engineering, and Egypt is still at war with us and wants at least 150 gold to settle. Revolt and drew a really short revolt time of 3 turns.

30 BC Dyes deal with Carthage ends. Exchange WM for +7 gold

10 BC Arabs demand 23 gold and TM. We, of course, cave. Otherwise, things are...uUhmmm...revolting. :D

10 AD We are now a Republic. Barely beat the Greeks to the last ice city spot, I had to run a blockade with units and our only galley. We are at 1-8-1 on the slider and only making +3gpt per turn. Most cities changed to building Marketplaces. Min science set on Theology.

30 AD We are now so poor that Cleo is demanding Warwick for Peace. Good thing she is half a world away! :p Trade WM for +8 gold. Dover founded.

50 AD Trade WM around for 7 gold.

We at least have water now, and are in Republic. If we can get Cleo off our back without paying an arm and a leg for it, then we will be officially treading water (as opposed to drowning!) Next leader...fell free to kill research altogether, as we don't have a prayer for a minimum science run on anything except maybe for Printing Press when it becomes available.
Be careful moving our galley! Remember the variant rules for cost of Ocean squares vs coastal squares.

Aztecs are our only chance for getting two-fers (maybe Rome).


The Save (50AD) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-50AD.SAV)

Our new North:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hot8pic011.jpg

The world as we know it:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hot8pic012.jpg

:goodjob: RJ getting us out of that hole.

Well that war was ratther uneventful. :hmm: 20 or so turns to reload and try again :hammer: !

I've got it!

I haven't been able to find the time to get this game started. A few things have come up this week.

Ted if you are available to play tonight by all means take it. If not I will make it a priority tomorrow.

Hotrod

Got it

Playing now, peacefully :)


Ted

Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:

Tech Status
Persia (furious) up Monarchy, Engineering & Chivalry (279gp)
Greece (annoyed) up Monarchy, Engineering & Chivalry (153gp)
Egypt (at War, annoyed) up Monarchy, Engineering & Chivalry (0gp)
Azteca (annoyed) up Monarchy (0gp)
Carthage (polite) up Monarchy, Engineering & Chivalry (4gp)
Rome (polite) up Monarchy & Engineering (0gp)
Arabia (polite) up Monarchy & Engineering (16gp)
Ottoman (polite) up Monarchy, Engineering & Chivalry (0gp)

We don't have any Horses in our lands which might be a problem. We only have one native luxury (Wines) but Dyes & Ivory are available in trade.

Pre-turn
Hawk WM for 8gp

Press button

1 - 70AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - N
Workers work...
Galley explores
Hawk WM for 12gp

IBT
Carthage starts Leonardo's

2 - 90AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - N
Workers work...
Newcastle connected to Empire
Hawk WM for 5gp (had to pay for Rome's)

3 - 110AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - E
Workers work...
Hawk WM for 6gp
Egypt still wants 160gp for Peace

4 - 130AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - N
Workers work...
Hawk WM for 7pg

IBT
Greece starts Leonardo's

5 - 150AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - W
Workers work...
York hires Scientist
Hawk WM for 7gp

IBT
Arbela Temple - Barracks
Athens (Greece) completes the Hanging Gardens
Carthage starts Leonardo's
Egypt starts Leonardo's
Arabia starts Sistine

6 - 170AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - SE
Workers work...
Hawk WM for 5gp

IBT
Arbela flips to Persia :(

7 - 190AD
Irrigation Team irrigate - move to W Hastings
Workers work...
Dover connected to Empire
Coventry hires Taxman (growth)
Hawk WM for 5gp
Buy Peace from Egypt for 136gp including WM exchange
Hawk WM for 7gp

IBT
Azteca & Egypt sign MA vs Ottoman
Greece starts Sistine
Carthage starts Sistine

8 - 210AD
Irrigation Team irrigate
Workers work...
Hawk WM for 8gp

9 - 230AD
Irrigation Team S
Workers work...
Hawk WM for 11gp

10 - 250AD
Irrigation Team irrigate
Workers work...

Notes
Pretty simple stuff. The next palyer should start to see the benefit of the Markets and could probably rush the Harbours in the North.
Trading left for next player.
We lost Arbela (culture flip) :(

Our Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-250AD.jpg

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-250AD.zip)


Ted

I see it but I am having trouble getting the file right now.

6gntxn

I just downloaded and tested it - all OK. Must have been a glitch :)


Ted

Take your time. The fires here have put a crimp in my routine. How you doin Rubberjello.

I've got it now. For some reason my PC would not let me link to the uploads folder.

6gntxn

Originally posted by TedJackson
Arbela flips to Persia :(

This means we've screwed the Ottos over twice so far (Iron deal). Osman will not show us much mercy when/if we ever confront him! :lol:

@Coffee - The fires in Southern Calif. - The weekend was the worst for us. Our home is too far into the middle of the city to be directly in danger. But my God. When you see an entire mountain range in flames on the horizon along at least a 30 mile front with the winds blowing at 50 mph...I dunno. The word "Armageddon" springs easily to mind. We've barely seen the sun for 5 days now because of the smoke and ash.

Not much to do but look around. Only tech with trade potential is Theology which is 28 turns away so I change the scientist to a tax man. Arbela had our 2nd source of iron.

IBT Ottomans and Perisans stop fighting.

260AD-1 Move workers. London at size six needs to bump tax up to 20% to keep from starving. Rush market here for 64g, in York for 44g, and in Hastings for 84g. Our map is not worth much now. Could only get 3g for it.

IBT The Persians start Sistines.

270AD-2 London market-->temple York market-->temple Hastings market-->granary. We need the temples w/o the luxuries. I'm not going to trade for any since our trade routs will all go through Persia and I want to be able to stike back at them soon.

IBT The Persians start Leo's.

280AD-3 Liverpool and Oxford riot. They are not connected and the clown will drop the pop so I push up the tax to 30%.

290AD-4 Nottingham harbor-->market

IBT Crthage is now demanding our TM and 24g. I'll keep him polite for a while. Aztecs start Sun's.

300AD-5 We are now getting our money back form Greece but the Ottomas are also still paying for the Iron. I will wait another turn for a trade.

IBT Osmon ends our trade.

310AD-6 Osmon found a better deal for iron. Rush harbor in Warwick for 56g.

IBT Carthage completes Sun Tzu's. Egypt moves to Sistine, and the Arabs work on both Sistine and Leo's.

320AD-7 Warwick harbor-->granary Theology is now afordable @8th for us but it will cost us everything. I doubt we will be able to get anything for it since Rome will not take GPT payments and Mnarchy has no value to us. Strat up our lone scientist again costing us 6 turns on Theology. (Originally did not think about trading for Engineering until the end of this turn but checked before "end Turn".) Decide to take Engineering from Greece for 21GPT and 116g. I trade around maps to pick up 16g.
Cut lux back to 20%, hire taxmen and clowns and allow Oxford to starve to scrape up some more GPT to send Engineering 7GPT and 14g to Monte for Theology. Now I take Theology to Caesar for Monarch and 10g. Monte is even with us, Caesar is up Chivalry and everyone else has Invnetion. We may be broke for 20 turns but we are not far behind. I start the Scientist on Printing Press. Rase tax back to 30% to keep Oxford from starving until road arrives. We are even and have 18g in the bank.

Persians and Greeks are working on Sistine and Leo's, Ottomasn on Leo's and Rome on Sistine.

330AD-8 5 civs show up with Education. I get 5g with our map. Our galley has reached the arabian border and they do not like it there.

Ottomans start Sistine.

340AD-9 York temple-->aqueduct Move scientist to Nottingham and we are now making 3GPT.

350AD-10 Workers working. A couple more people now have Education. Nothing else going on.


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-350AD.zip)

got it.

Early
London, Canterbury and Hastings complete markets. Start MI. Persia has knights and muskets.

Mid
Aztecs demands TM + 27g. I tell Monty to walk and he does. Carthage is building Copernicus.
The galley meets a Bantu pirate ship.

Late
The Bantu's sink our galley. We complete the FP. Gpt jumps to 19 from 6. Coventry starts a market.
Complete 2 MI.


This is a seriously difficult game given the terrain, resources and luxuries. I'd like to suggest a restart.


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-450AD.SAV)

coffee you're not feeling adventureous? I must agree this was a difficult start and some bad luck with Persia, resources etc and we are in a deep hole with only a faint shot at a diplo win as a viable option.

I am not adverse to a restart. Any other comments?

Hotrod

Ps this truely was the first game out of the gate. If we do restart I will play it out a bit and see what the terrain is like. No guarrentees on resources but perhaps a bit less desert and ice ;)

Let me know what you all think

Well, this is the most discouraging time of any Diety level game. If you want to look at a difficult start in the desert, look at ST3. Of course there we had the advantage of Sirius playing a Scientific Civ in a textbook example of perfect Science slingshot. We don't have that advantage here, of course.

I have no doubt we could sneak out a win either with Diplo or Space Race, but it would not be very fun and it would certainly not test out Hotrod's editing changes for the Man 'o War.
I'm split on this poll, I could go either way happily.

I suppose I was looking for something a little less difficult. Given we have only one luxury and one resource + almost no production -> means that the difficulty is much greater. Still I'm not against a war attempt. Pikes, catapults + MI might get us deep enough to pillage and then defeat Persia.

I vote to stick it out. If we go down in flames, it will free up more time for Conquests. :)

I don't want to just give up. OTOH we sure aren't going to get a chance to try out the Man'o'War tweaks.

I vote for an all out attempt to conquer Persia. That will decide the issue one way or the other :)


Ted

RubberJello is up! Lets see what happens.

[pimp] :smoke: Ooops! I had no idea I was up in this one. Bad me. I should have played it last night. I'll try to squeeze it in at work this morning, (Boss permitting!)

May I suggest using pikes against Persia to pillage and help gas Xmans knights and immortals. We can then follow with MI and cats to use against the muskets.

Good luck.

Oh Hotrod.....Calling Hotrod....We have a problem!

How come I can't upgrade Spears to Pikes when we Feudalism, Iron, Barracks, and money to upgrade them? You didn't perchance leave the "no-iron" mod from Hot 7 in this Mod, did you?

I sure hope I'm not accusing you baselessly, and have overlooked something really stupid.

Coffee? did you try to upgrade any Spears to Pikes?

Nope, didn't try upgrading this round. I did upgrade some warriors to swords last turns however.

Wow! Things really look ugly here. I really hate those games (like this one), where as soon as you are down, the AI doesn't fight amongst themselves and there is a huge, peaceful research race. :mad:
I see Coffee's suggestions, but I don't think much will happen during my turns as all we have is 2 M.I. and some swords. I'll start building some cats and upgrade everyone though. Our ultimate luck would be if Persia and Ottomans get into a war, but that probably will not happen.

460 AD to 550 AD.

Early: No one will even talk to us for a tech purchase. Micro-manage some things. Just going to do a balanced mix of infrastructure and military. The AIs start Copernicus's and Magellans, so we are waaaaaay behind in techs. We can't seem to upgrade our Spears to Pikes (seperate message).

Middle: No one will even talk to us for a tech purchase. The rest of the world has learned Music Theory. Weeeee!!! Isn't this fun? :p Building Cats and M.I. and Pikes. Egypt demands tribute and I cave.

Late: OK. I admit it. I scared of the Persians! I'm not going to be the one to pull the trigger against them! More units built, no trades available. Arabs finish Sistine's Chapel. In the Cascade that follows, everyone finishes Cops, Magellen's, Leonardo's, and JS Bachs. Greece demands tribute and I cave.


AFter playing my turns, I'm as discouraged as Coffee was. Our Rep being shot so that we can't purchase techs in gpt deals is the final nail in the coffin. The total peacenik mode of the all the AIs are really pissing me off also.
The Game (550 AD) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hot8-550AD.SAV)

Oh oh! NO pikes ?? :hmm: will investigate the editor tonight before I attempt.

This game is looking worse and worse :sad:

Our Rep being shot so that we can't purchase techs in gpt deals is the final nail in the coffin. I think the problem is a lack of gold.

Well I fat fingered the spears. Everything else is normal.

I will try and play tonight and give my impressions but based on what coffee and Rubberjello have expressed my hopes aren't too high

So what da ya fiqure there hotrod?

With Halloween duties tonight I wasn't able to get to look at the game itself.

To be honest my heart just isn't with this game at the moment. It is a truely awful start. Not because we played badly but just some rotten luck and land.

I am tempted to just say bag it and start Hot9 with a fresh out look. Maybe the crusades with Conquests??

I am sure I will have more to say tomorrow.

Sorry if this was a complete waste of time :blush:

Hotrod

I vote for Hot 9 with Conquests. It wasn't a waste of time there Hotrod. It was a humbling experience which we all need now and then. :)

I'm really interested in getting into some Conquest S.G.s, but the only ones discussed so far have tough variants. I'm not sure I'm up for that, since just exploring all the changes and new tech trees will be tough enough for me.

I'm in. I'd like to see if conquests can put the excitement back into the game. If not, well will cross that bridge latter. I'm on the same page as RJ for Hot 9.

I still say attack Persia :)

I know it looks pretty unwinnable at the moment but if we get a lucky break on the RNG then things might look rosier.


Ted