This is the First Mid Game spoiler discussion thread for the Gotm24-Korea

Again take a few moments to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the new spoiler rules.

This is the second spoiler thread to support discussion of the Gotm24-Korea. If possible, you should have already summarized your ancient age progress in a short report in the Early Discussion thread for this game.

Every player must pass two tests in order to be able to view or participate this spoiler thread. These two tests define a dividing line where knowledge and events prior to the line may be discussed but knowledge that you may have from later in the game may not be included.

For Gotm24-Korea:

you must have the full world map and contact with all 10 rivals or their remains AND
you must have researched Metallurgy to enable the Hwach'a/Seige Cannon/Cannon units in the game (or already submitted your game) but you may not discuss Cavalry or any feature of the industrial age with respect to technologies, wonders, or resources. (If you discuss or hint about locations of Coal, Oil or Rubber we will ram slivers of bamboo under your fingernails.)

Information in this thread must be from BEFORE BOTH OF THESE EVENTS.

Do not mention industrial age or modern age wonders except as future goals.

We are particularly interested in screenshots, maps, and stories of what you discovered as you encountered new civs and new units in the game. For many players this will be the first time you may have seen some units like the Mounted Samurais of the Kensai Martial Arts Swordsman.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/2003images/gotm24_kinboat_unit_previews.jpg

We owe a particular debt of gratitude to Civfanatics member Kinboat for making the extra effort to make so many great Asian/Korean/Japanese style units available to us to include in the game to fill in the gaps or substitute for the missing PTW units.

What were your impressions of the behavior of the other Civilizations during this phase of the game? Try to touch on all the surviving civs and what you thought they were doing.

Have fun!! Meet new players, make new friends, and share ideas. Again that's what this game is all about.

Computer using RCP?
I saw that in GOTM24 when researching AI city placement. What a hell? Computer using RCP with a distance 5.5?
http://online.com.ua/~arahmahn/RCP.jpg

Ancient Age Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1278670#post1278670)

Building, Trades and more trades
After failing the initial expansion, I considered conquering the starting landmass but I am now convince it will not work and will hamper my diplomatic victory. So I will switch to build mode and be ready to grab spare land where available. My search path is to go directly at Economics trading to AI with techs on the Invention tree. I will give as soon as possible Education to Han so that the Great Lib effect dies ASAP. The good thing is that I still have separated contacts that limits greatly the effect of the Great Lib.
I want to build lots of Wonders in order to deprive AI from them. I missed all ancient ages ones, I will not miss MA. Due to my long Palace pre-built, I will have Hanging Gardens in 2 turns :goodjob:

In 10 BC, I got Peace with Corgureyo giving Construction & Bajuscu & Nam’po & 40 GP & WM
Han : Shamanism & Currency vs Ivory & Dyes & 10 GPT & 10 GP
Enter Middle Ages with Monotheism as free tech
Tokugawa : Takeda & Shimazu & WM & 23 GP vs Monotheism
Shimazu : WM & all contacts & 3 GP vs Monotheism
Takeda : Monarchy & 7 GP & WM vs Republic
Oda : WM & 22 GP vs WM. Notice my WM is worth 22 GP more than the rest, it never happened to me before
Mori : WM & 31 GP vs WM
Chosugabe : 20 GP vs TM
Toku : 9 GPT & 2 GP vs WM
Han : Silks & WM & 33 GP vs WM
Great Map with Korean Peninsula & Japan well designed. Cracker this is VERY Impressive :goodjob: I go building mode, Libraries / MarketPlace / University / Bank to maximize research & happiness.

110 AD : My first attempt to Palace Jump, Go to Kaeson –. Seoul is rebuilt at the same spot with last produced settler and will produce workers ... and I enter building mode with trades and trying to keep GP of the others AI to a minimum. I basically monitor the AI quite closely in order to be sure to force them to search the lower tree of MA while I will search the upper tree.

170 AD : Han : Monotheism vs Feudal Warlords & 7 GP & WM. Contact are still separated and I gain Feudal Warlords at minimum cost.
Shimazu : TM & 7 GP vs WM
Chosogabe : WM & 7 GP vs TM
Oda : WM & 12 GP vs WM
Takeda : 11 GP vs WM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24_170ad.jpg
Ulsan is going to grab Silks in 260 AD. I will after rush buildings (Library / Temple / University / Cathedral) to avoid any flip due to culture. This is one of my best move. I love that one :D

190 AD: 2 nd Galley lost with a Settler :( I was trying to settle on the island north of my territory and south of Hokkaido (Shimazu territory). Finally Togukawa meets Han with a marauding galley. I did memorized when.

280 AD: Tokugawa – Samurai Code & Engineering & WM & 16 GPT vs Son buddishm. I get 2 techs and will plunder the AI for all their GP.
Shimazu WM & 37 GPT & 79 GP vs Son buddishm
Oda WM & 37 vs Son buddishm
Takeda : 28 GPT & 31 GP vs Son Buddhism
Give to Han for 3 GP& WM (since they will get it through Great Lib :( …)
Mori : WM & 6 GP vs WM

380 AD Takeda : Invention & WM & 120 GP & 39 GPT vs Education – More techs, these good AI are searching the desired path
Mori : 11 GP vs WM and gives Son Buddhism
Han : WM & Furs & 20 GPT & 23 G vs Education
Shimazu : WM & 11 GPT & 31 GP vs Education
Chosogabe : I give away Education (no Gold !) to have good & polite neighbor.
Kuroda : 67 GP & 17 GPT & WM vs Education
Goro : Monotheism vs 31 GP

460 AD : Han - GunPowder & WM & 207 GP & 69 GPT vs Astronomy
Toku : 5 GP vs WM
Choso : WM & 3 GPT & 25 GP vs Astronomy
Mori : 2 GP vs WM & gives Education
Kuroda : WM & 10 GP vs Gunpowder
Oda : Offers Astronomy to keep all AI at parity.
Corg : WM & 27 GP vs Sun bud

540 AD : Cor declares War on Han , I join in the fight. Cor are destroyed the following year and I manage to grab Haeju to complete my RCP 5 on the Palace. Maybe I should have removed Ham’po at distance 3 of Palace and on the East shores… but I did not

560 AD : Shimazu Music Theory & WM vs Chemistry
Offers Chemistry to Tokugawa …
Mori : 13 GP vs Invention
580 AD : Oda Navigation & 1 GP & WM vs Salpeter & Horses & Ivory. They are at war against two biggies might help them and give them 100 GP to keep them alive.
Chosogabe : WM & 7 GPT & 26 GP vs Wool
Han : Furs vs Wines & Dyes & 15 GPT
I resist to give Salpeter to Takeda (1st in rankings ...). Search at fast rate (4 per turn since Banking & Chemistry). Tech leaders are at parity I am leading by 2 techs (Economy & Physics). I am building Magellan’s / JS Bach / Newton / Smith

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24_590ad.jpg
Status at 590 AD. I have 54 Workers & 1 eqWorker & 6 Warriors (Reg) & 7 Musketmen & 5 Knights & 1 Catapult (captured) & 5 Bushi & 2 Kensai & 1 Junk & 1 Pikeman... Producing a worker every two turns in Seoul ...

610 AD: Kuroda has a World War against him, I trade Horses / Iron / Salpeter vs Incense & WM & 3 GPT & 19 GP to keep him alive. I buy Metallurgy from Takeda for Wines & 41 GPT & 25 GP and I enter Industrial Ages.

Units are very impressive and nice:goodjob: Unfortunately as my aim is diplomacy (i.e. peaceful game), I did not have much to time to appreciate their usage.

Started off the Middle ages with a small war with Han. He was polite at the time but declared on me anyways. I signed a alliaance with Gogu against Han so I could focus on other things. This might not have been a good idea because Han rather easily took a couple of Gogu's cities before Gogu could get peace, hence only making Han stronger (from the get go of the game, Han put up a strong showing to this point in the game.) Only good thing I got out of the war was a Gogu city on my boarder that Han had taken and then I took if from him. Other then this city and a handful of Swordsmen, thats all I delt with in this war with Han. Peace was soon made which netted me a couple techs and some gold.

Takeda build the Great Lighthouse so he came to our land mass before we made it to his. Luckily I met him first which gave me the opportunity to trade of his contact for some techs. After gaining all the contacts from him, i was able to trade them off for some techs, which I was starting to fall behind in. I got back to parity but just as fast I started to fall behind ago. I got beat to Gun Powder by 2 or 3 turns so I was not able to make but bucks off of it. I trade for just about everything in the upper part of the tech tree after Educations (I had the Great Library, and at this point I didn't have Metallurgy yet, was in the process.) I then did finished Metallurby first, which is where this story finishes.

Other than this early war, nothing else really happened in this time frame of my game other then me struggling to stay close in the tech race.

Riccett

while i was sending out suicide junks, suddenly han, baekje and even guguryeo (which i cut down to 2 cities in ancient age) all had all contacts, world map and they were even more techs ahead than before my poor attempts to keep up with them.

i saw only one chance: baekje had the great library in a city two tiles away from our border! from 560ad to 670ad i was deliberately building up my troops and blitzed baekje with most of my knights - luckily i was able to buy samurai code before. i conquered the baekjian great library and got almost all the medieval techs including metallurgy, only two left to be researched.
i could even sell some of the techs to some smaller opponents for contacts and money and world map - i was one of them the turn before. now i am a civ to count with.

is this an exploit? i couldn't find anything about the GL-exploit in the "allowed exploits" page.

i might submit more details and screenshots later. i'm a little bit in a hurry now.

Originally posted by bluebox
is this an exploit? i couldn't find anything about the GL-exploit in the "allowed exploits" page.

I do not think this is an exploit. This is just an opportunity of using AI wonders by conquest.

Personally, Baekje had the Pyramids so I got that from them.

After looking at the map I decided to go after the Han. I'm guessing that the they were still militaristic and their Riders really worried me.

I started to upgrade my horsemen to knights. I was always strapped for cash to do this. I had to reduce my research rate, and I was already behind in tech. I started to fall further behind.

After accumulating a large army of knights and getting the olives to ally with me I attacked. My initial assaults went well, and I captured several cities. But I was losing too many knights to musketmen and I started to bog down. I started researching as fast as I could to get to military tradition and fought on. If it wasn't for my olive allies I would have lost all of my gains.

It was tough enough against their Riders. Then their cavalry appeared and I still had knights. So now I have to wait for the next spoiler...

In 590 I enter the Middle Ages.

Well I entered the MA in 590. I had met all the other players in 650 BC.

After clearing Barb island I sent the elite swordsman I had over to Baekjle and attacked them. I gave Han and Gorguryeo and luxuary each for coming in with me so I wouldn't take a rep hit by the Baekjile bringing one in. I get real pissed the next turn because the Baekjle finish the Great Library and there is no way I want it. However I have to finish them off since I declared on them. So I take all their towns in the next 10 or so turns. And my last attack creates a Great Leader and I make the FP in the middle of their territory right away. I now have all the territory from the middle of the continent North. The one negative about that war is the fact I got the GL. I now have to stop building Hanging Guardens and my Sistine Pre-build so I don't enter my GA before I want to.
I got Engineering for free which again ticked me off because I wanted to make a bee line to Astronomy, Economics, and Democracy. I wanted to let the AIs start learning the other two branches. From this point out I never have research less than 100% unless I could do so and maintain a 4 turn research rate. At least until the IA. I start a war with Gorguryeo to get a few more cities and an extra wine. Bring in the Han and we kill of the G boys. Oh, and at the start of the MA I created ROP agrements with everybody and would never drop those in the MA. Everyone was polite or Gracious with me. I timed the completion of Cops Observatory so that I would be starting Theory of Gravity (which would have taken 5 turns) so I hit my golden age taking me down to 4 turns of research and easily get Newtons College too because of the GA. It pushed me into the IA very easily. I don't have the date but there were only 3 techs that took me more than 4 turns to research so it was fairly quick.

I would not fight in another war after taking out the Gorguryeo. No one ever made demands of me up to this point. I was making tons of money and still giving techs away left and right. Oh, and I got a leader in the Gorguryeo war and will be saving him for the UN build so that I can know off a few turns.

having never played korea before, i am having trouble using the h'wacha to get me into a golden age. This is the UU right? Am i missing something? thanks

You can't trigger a GA with the H'wacha - you'll have to get your GA by building Wonders instead.

My Middle Ages were really quiet - I had gotten there by trading with the other continent, and after that rode the GL for a bit until theology, at which point I started to research Printing Press @max, trading it around for post-education techs Seoul grabbed Sistine & , Smith's and Shakespeare's (ever mindful of the 20K backup pla) while my FP city slightly to the North of Seoul grabbed Bach's ( I wanted Leo, but culturewise Sistine was a better wonder to build in Seoul and the cascade beat me to it).

Since I already had TGL, building Smith's triggered my GA and from there on, all the AIs would be left in the dust techwise. Economics (which I had to research myself and was able to trade for Magnetism after ensuring the cascade didn't eat Smith's) was one of the last MA techs to be researched so the GA was just like I like it - early-industrial (and thus outside of the scope of this thread).
I also grabbed Magellan's and Newton's, just because I could :).

I didn't get involved with the other continent much, only to sell off my techs every now and then. My free tech (engineering) brought me a fortune and so did every other tech I chose to go all-out for. I did end up in wars with the Oda, Takeda and Tokugawa (repeatedly) due to rejected tribute demands, but I made peace each time without a shot being fired in anger. It's an agressive bunch over there, with Tokugawa being the most agressive of all (and shaping up to be a monster - they virtually wiped out the Oda by the end of the MA).

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg v1.27f

50 AD - The recovery journey begins. I need to start expanding territory, or I will stay in trouble. I also need to find Japan. Based on the upside down Korea I expect Japan to my west.

50 AD to 350 AD -
The first Baekje war begins. I have decided to go on pure raze and replace plan. The Baekje provide us 4 new city sites, 10 workers, our third luxury of ivory, a second iron source, and a source of horses. I made peace after their capitol was defended by units that were doing a superhero imitation leaving me almost no offensive troops.

210 AD to 550 AD
Despite the fact that I gave the Han a dirt cheap luxury deal, the second war starts with them. I get the Goguryeo to join me in an alliance against them. This backfires as the Han take several of their cities. This was a complete waste of time, as I made almost no progress against them.

280 AD - The bad news continues as Sun Tzu is built on a different land mass. The bad news gets worse in 390 when Sistine Chapel is completed overseas. I badly need to find the other continent.

460 AD - We finally make contact with another clan - the Shimzam. What sucks is it the AI must have made contact during the inter-turn. I missed first contact trading by just 1/2 a turn. On the other hand, the GL really saved me big time. The GL takes me all the way to Navigation. What is bad is that I am second from last for score.

580 AD to 620 AD
The second Baekje war begins. I gain three cities from the deal, but the Han beat me to the fourth city by just one turn. This increases the size of the Korean clan to 13 cities. I still am a long way from being able to deal with the Han effectively.

750 AD - I don't know why I am struggling so badly for tech in the game. I see smokestacks even though I still need several techs to leave. I still haven't gotten cavalry, and haven't seen any of the new units.

My biggest challenges will be too small of size, and that real life just got extremely busy. I hit this timeframe on Oct 5 and have no idea when I can play again.

Naboo/Gotm24/Spoiler2/Open/V1.29/Mac/

Chronicles of Wang Kong the Ruthless in the Middle Ages

We left the Ancient Age with the spoils of the 1st Baekje War. A war in which we blatantly broke peace and trade deals in a sneak attack. The goal remains a diplomatic victory, but there are more war clouds on the horizon. Having took that first step, there is no reason now not to procure a territory large enough to yield sufficient resources and luxuries. In fact, since we did take the warrior's path those items will be essential. Trade will likely be difficult for some time. We'll get no credit so we will need commodities.

At least initially, we have some hope to completely clear our island before the remote civs get contact, but this would turn out to be overly ambitious. The Han became strong and more importantly, the role of Tech Broker could not be achieved by Korea.

Soon after ending the war, we sent out junks to find other civs. We meet the Mori in 250AD. Continuing along the coast of that land we soon get contacts to all the protoJapanese civs. None of my near neighbors are able to make contacts and it appears we are in a tremendously strong position to become brokers until Astronomy and Navigation.

Unfortunately, we don't have enough cash to get the sting running. Eventually it became clear that the best way to extract value from this situation was to trade contacts and maps for as much as we could get. It helped, but wasn't the game-buster we'd been hoping for when we made those first contacts.

This was very frustrating and we ended up taking it out on the Baekje, conquering them in 680AD and procuring the Pyramids from them, as well as a Great Leader who rushed the forbidden palace in Chin-do.

The procurement of extra saltpeter allows us to trade to the Oda for 31gpt, the first decent economic news in some time. The Oda appear to be the most vigorous of the Japan7. And now we've helped them…. Oops?

Conquest of Goguryeo is deemed essential, especially for the 3 wine they have. We declare war around 790AD. A couple of cities are taken but we realize our knights will have a hard time finishing the job against their muskets. We'll need to get to Cavalry somehow (discussed here only as a future goal :) ). We settle the war with Goguryeo and get Metallurgy for a hefty discount. This will save us just enough cash to procure the needed tech. Umm, does it sound like we're prepared to renege on our Goguryeo peace deal? Gosh we're near the Industrial Age and not done being despicable yet??



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/nabooGotm24.spoiler2.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Mac 1.29

Ancient Age Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1280298#post1280298)

My overall plan since 1225 BC was to research as quickly as possible to fission, while expanding as much as possible in the meantime, all the while maintaining good relations with the civs who would vote for UN head. Given that, entering the Middle Ages in 310 BC was pretty average, presumably a result of my crippling the Baekje early, so that they barely contributed to the research race in the ancient era.

PEACE

I switched to Republic in 230 BC, and completed the FP east of Seoul in 90 BC. The Korean cities were mainly building marketplaces, libraries and aqueducts; a minority built bushi. (I decided to build bushi rather than upgrade warriors because I couldn’t afford the gold drain while maintaining a fast research rate.)

After the free monotheism tech, I researched son buddhism in about eight turns, and went for education. Each tech was researched more quickly than the prior one, and by the time I reached astronomy, I was in a 4-5 turn rhythm.

In the meantime, my decision to trade or gift all my tech to the seven offshore civs looked really good. My approach was to take every bit of gold available, but keep everyone perfectly even. Perhaps as a result, there has yet to be a war in the other hemisphere since I met them in 570 BC, and almost every civ has taken a turn contributing to my gpt. While researching the top half of the tech tree, I traded for feudal warlords, engineering, invention, gunpowder, and chemistry, as well as military tradition, economics, and navigation. In effect, this meant I worked my way through the Middle Ages as fast as I possibly could have (510 AD) because had I researched my own techs any faster, I would have left the other civs behind.

My one mistake was to research music theory, as a way to lower my luxury rate. I wasted those four turns, as I was beaten out to the wonder by a few turns – ironically, it was the one tech I didn’t trade. When the AI reseached navigation, I was able to pick up enough luxuries to put the slider at zero. The Bach prebuild shifted over to Newton’s, and my GA kicked in about 480 AD.

Note the long sail to the western hemisphere, and the seven balanced civs:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/24-10bc.jpg

WAR

After eliminating the Baekje in 300 BC with a half dozen swords, I waited until I could upgrade 30 bushi to kensai to invade the Goguryo in 10 BC. They Goguryo lost their iron almost immediately, and defended themselves almost exclusively with spears and arrows. The Kensai made quick work of them, picking up a Leader (#2) in 110 AD en route to finishing off the Goguryo at their capital in 270 AD.

The Leader allowed me to spare Seoul, rushing a new palace instead on the SE side of my new border with the Han, in 300 AD. This was about 2/3 of the way down the map, wth the FP 1/3 of the map north from there. I now had the two palaces lined up as well as I could to govern the entire continent. Again, the second core should have been created sooner in an ideal world, but I chose to build it for maximum longterm effect, and it took me this long to conquer this far south, due to my primary focus on infrastructure.

I was in a hurry to declared war on the Han, and had already missed the chivalry window with them. I had kept my local rep intact so as to nail the Han as hard as possible. I attacked in 370 AD with 18 kensai, taking three border cities and taking Canton, their iron source. Unfortunately, five of my six kensai died taking Canton, which means I was forced to raze it, leaving the iron in open territory, fully roaded.

It didn’t take long for the Han to rebuild Canton, and I continued to encounter catapults, pikemen and kensai, followed by riders and, a little later, musketmen. The first of a moderate stream of knights arrived to support the kensai, but I felt I had bitten off more than I could chew. What I did is to draw out the Han counteratack into open ground, where captured catapults and knights destroyed them. In the meantime, the few cities I had building knights kept up a steady southward stream, and the 480 AD GA helped even more. Several turns later, I had the feeling that the Han’s back had been broken, and their cities started to fall… slowly. Musketmen hold up well against knights.

[ptw] open

Entered MA 420 AD and make a major mistake right off. Since I got monarchy & republic from the GL and didn't have a screen pop up to ask about a revolution, I remained in depotism all throughout the MA:wallbash: You can probably predict the final result.

550AD, we trade for WM

860AD someone else entered IA as we suddenly see a lot of barbarian activity on the island to our west, but we are so far behind in tech, I don't know who it was.

:mad: EVIL HAN declared war on us and broke treaties to do it. They have military units that are unknown to us :mad:

980 AD Traded a tech with one of the civs across the ocean for the last 2 required MA techs to enter IA, then do a lot of tech trading in the same turn, but that's past this spoiler. (Yes, I'm STILL in depotism, and this is the turn that I FINALLY notice it as my research rate REALLY dropped off after I traded for the last 2 MA techs.)

Open Class [ptw] 1.27f

As I finally left the Ancient age in 300 AD, I had just used my second leader to rush the FP in the old Goguryeo capitol, and had a thrid leader saved up for a wonder. I revolted ASAP and had a managable 4 turn anarchy and emerged as a Republic.

I decided around this point that I was finished with war for the game. With my two cores, I was certain that I could now research at a 4-turn pace all the way to Fission. This was, however, if I could get back ahead in techs. My warring had left me behind the Han, and much further behind the other continent, which I contacted while still in the Ancient Age through a suicide Junk.

That contact monopoly was my ticket to tech leadership. I started by trading my territory map, and then my world map. This got me right back around even. I managed to hold off on contact trading until the last possible second when I moticed an Odan ship approaching the Han. This netter me mostly money, as I was already even.

As far as my research path, I beelined for Education, as to get Universities set up everywhere. I used extra money to rush them wherever possible. The only non required tech I researched was Economics, in a vain attempt to have a GA through Newton's and Smith's. I ended up getting beat to both through a particularily nasty cascade that wiped out every wonder from Bach's to Newton's. My 3rd leader, who I used to get Sistine, should have been saved for Smith's. Even if I didn't grab Newton's, I could have still fulfilled the scientific responsibility through TOE. Oh well....GA's are overrated anyways :lol:

Overall, once my infrastucture was up to par, my Korean Republic began to zip along the tech tree quite quickly, 4-turning it all the way. All said, I was an Industrial nation by 700 AD.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif[ptw]1.21f

Left the Ancient age in 50AD, a little late but on track to take over the other Korean tribes. Baekje still had one city left and Gogoureo were strong.

Ancient Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1276107#post1276107)

In 290AD We were ready for War with Gogoureo and launched a strong group of well trained Bushi, same turn found that we had met all the Japenese tribes, they must have traded contacts for Korea, all of them.

This war starts off ok with one city taken, but our two pronged attack then stalls. Time is taken to allow Gogoureo to counter attack to weaken them a little then the war is taken back to them, but the Bushi keep dying on the end of Gogoureo pikes. During this time, all the elites died, it was guaranteed that if we attack with the elite they would die, and if we attack with the regular they would win, guaranteed. Whatever god overlooks Korea was not looking their way in this war. Now the Korean Knights joined the fray, with fresh confidence the combined Bushi, Knight attacks start to cripple the Gogoureo defence and at last some ground is made.
Then the game turns, a glorious Korean leader emerges from the ruins of a battle for Kaesong. [dance]

The war however is far from won, with war wearines kicking in peace is declared. Now what to do with our glorious leader. The best place for the FP (which is clearly what he'll be used for) is in Kaesong, but that city is far from being taken. Now the Gogoureo show muskets in their cities, with no aparent saltpeter around (hidden under Changyon). So it is decided to built the FP now, and put it in Qitaigyon right next to Kaesong, little did we know that an FP city could flip, it didn't we were lucky :p

During this period we were always behind in tech, the Japanese were very advanced, and although they traded scraps keeping pace was difficult. The Han didn't help much and Baekje offered suprings amounts of cash for luxuries they were turned down as reputation is key in this game. There is no way there would be a big Japanese invasion the goal of a diplomatic victory is clearly set. Still the scraps were enough to allow good advancement and the Japanese never seemed to tire of our constant diplomatic visits. The FP started to kick in, combined with a nice set of shiny new Universities and the Korean scientists started to catch up, and as they did so the scraps became bigger

In 610AD it was time to finally irradicate the Gogoureo's, and war was formed. This war proved to be as difficult as the war of 290AD, with the newly dangerous Kensai Warrior joining the battle and taking it to the Gogoureo Muskets. The Korea Knights now discovered their retreat ability and there was a light at the end of the war tunnel.

Now in 700AD Democracy was discovered, do we wait until the war is over or turn to Anarchy now. Anarchy is chosen and the battle continues. Now the war turns bad as with no fresh troops coming through mistakes were made and a Gogoureo counter led to the loss of Ulsan. Together with the culture flip of Sariwon things started to look very bad.

Eventually a Democracy was formed but the story ends as we hit a certain spoiler rule, how the war continued, did the Korean live to tell another tale of heroics will have to wait for another day and another spoiler thread.

I'm afraid that I didn't build any Hwacha during this period, with Democracy I traded for many other techs including Metalurgy and MT so I had Cavalry before Hwacha so no dicussion here.

The Japanese tribes did not fight much, I liked that as I wanted them to keep the tech pace up so that I could trade for it. The goal here is absolute perfect reputation to keep trades cheap and keep in touch in time for TOE. You may ask about wonders, to be frank I didn't build any. It makes me smile to think before I played GOTM that I used to give up if I didn't get both Pyramids and GL, but now on Emporer level, Predator and no wonders, still able to keep in touch ;)

Finally lets talk about Suicide Junks, here were my best two. Little did I know about the shape of the Japanese Island. This was taken after I did meet everyone else, the junks obviously didn't make it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Suicide-Junks_copy.jpg

Originally posted by smackster
... It makes me smile to think before I played GOTM that I used to give up if I didn't get both Pyramids and GL, but now on Emporer level, Predator and no wonders, still able to keep in touch ;)

Methinks, you may have had an epiphany. ;)

When you accurately perceive the fluidity of things, you can also begin to perceive the constancy behind them: the creative, transformative, boundless, immutable Tao of the GOTM.

370 BC ? 570 AD Korean Middle Ages.
Not too much to say here. I finished off the pink and had a decent size empire. Last time I went for a diplomatic win (in the OLD tournament) I didn?t have a single war. I new I needed more land and pink had some decent land. Things went very smoothly since then, peacefully researched for quite a while. Built Copernicus Observatory in 310 AD in Seoul. Towards the end of the age, the han dynasty started placing too many riders near my southern border. Trying to avoid war, I signed a rop with them by giving them a tech (forgot what it was). I then took all 7 of my knights and my last 3 bushi and placed them right next to their border town. I also trained a few more musktmen for my 2 border towns in question. I escaped War for the time being, which was real good since my interior cites had little or no defense. Entered the Industrial Age in 570 AD. Newton?s is getting close to being built in Seoul, getting ready for an Industrial Golden age.

Man, after reading everyone's Ancient and MA experiences, I feel like I really got robbed in the Great Leader department. I didn't get one my entiure game and I had many opportunities.

The year is 380AD. I am in posession of The Collossus and the Great Library. I have all but conqured the pinks, leaving them a single city on barbarian island that is constantly sieged by the natives. Meanwhile, the Hans have been rampaging through olive territory who are down to just two cities, each on opposite sides of the continent and seperated from the Han advances by my own territory.

Dozens of Han swordsmen are trying each turn to pass through my borders, but I demand htey withdraw each turn. I negotiated my own peace with the Hans when I entered the MA and turned to Republic in 250AD. We also have a current trade agreement for luxories and they are Polite, so they accept my demands, so all that stands between the Hans and the olives is my decent standing with the Han Horde.

I have a number of Kensai, but I'm still building up my infrastructure after the war with the pinks.

The display of might by the Hans with their mobilization of so many swordsmen is daunting. I have 19 turns remaining on our luxory trade. I've been sending out suicide junks to no avail. Currently I'm planning to build up my army to attack the Hans since it seems to be down to just the two of us and they have control of slightly more land area on our continent than I do.

And then this happend:

http://www.middlebury.edu/~bdarling/first_contact.jpg

First Contact with the outside world as The Takeda, builders of the Great Lighthouse, find me before my neighbors (good thing I conquered the east coast).

I instantly trade around contacts and world maps and much cash, much int he form of gpt (not bothering with tech) and the Great Library provides me with a cascade of techs the next turn (woohoo!). Here's the map that is revealed to me:

http://www.middlebury.edu/~bdarling/380AD.jpg

This grants me a significant technological advantage over the Hans, but I'm concerned over my ability to keep up in tech once the GL is nullified (likely very soon). So instead of rebuilding my military, I concentrate on infrastructure. Surprisingly, the Han make peace with olives soon after.

But, now that I've seen the world map and I observe the Han managing to catch up in tech in no time flat, my concern grows. My territory seems just a little too small to gain dominance over the rest of the world. So, lacking patience, I attack the Han, breaking our trade agreement (a decision that would haunt me for the remainder of the game as I was unable to gain techs for gpt afterwards).

By 560AD, my troops are in position to begin my offensive on the Hans. I quickly grab four cities before negotiating peace as the Hans obtain the dreaded Rider and I realize any further war will result in a stalemate at best or possibly severe losses. So I regretfully halt my offensive at 630AD, just short of the precious silks and furs that the Han posess.

This would remain my territory for the majority of the remaining game. From now I concentrated on research and technology and trading and improving my damaged reputation. I also built the Sistine Chapel during this short war with the Han. I'm satisfied now that I have secured the dominance on my continent and I am just gaining an advantage in the world tech race...

http://www.middlebury.edu/~bdarling/630AD.jpg

Originally posted by Owain
...just short of the precious silks ...
You have just about the same territory as I had around the same time. You have available space to settle a town & grab some silks. I did it and proved succsessful.

doh... too bad I already finished my game. :p I didn't think of that.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif[ptw]1.27f

Not more than a short summary for me. I’ve just reached the limit for this spoiler yesterday. So far I’ve managed to reduce the pinkies (sorry, can’t spell those names), to two cities, one on the barb island, and another one way south-east and took half the lands of the Goguryeo (this I can spell) including the capitol.

I found Japan in the late BCs (I guess everybody recognized the inverted Korean Peninsula and Japanese Islands) through a very lucky move. My first galley reached the Western shore and I misclicked it to a sea square. It did not sink so I went westward and found Japan in the same turn.

Yeah, they were backward in my case too, but I kept contacts and managed to do some decent trading while keeping one tech ahead of the others on the bottom tech branch. My contact monopoly is about to end as the Togukawa holding the Lighthouse just found the passage and arrived near my lands.

I had incredible luck with leaders (no, I did not get one in 3000BC) first around 500BC just as I conquered the pinkies, a perfect time to build the FP in a central position. The second came just as I finished the war with Goguryeo and was used to build Sun Tzu, immediately after I changed my prebuild to Leo’s, as many AI’s were cascading to Sun from the Hanging Gardens.

I might be back later with more but don’t count on it.

@Yndy
I had horrible luck with leaders (None) so I hand-built all wonders & FP but I wage very limited wars in Ancient Ages only

This one has been a very pushed game so far, with ups and downs...

During the Ancient age I built lots of libraries, barracks and hordes of horsemen... avoided temples altogether as I felt the resources could be better used elsewhere...

Initially went after the Bajeke with horsemen, netting me a really early great leader (700BC? - makes up for my stinking luck in other gotms :) which I used to rush the great library.

This was an unexpected bonus, that was not part of my plans - best one I've ever had - got me several ancient age techs and all the way to gunpowder and chivalry before educaiton was discovered. This was mostly down to my (read: from this site!)new idea of giving away techs to try and steer the AI research in a fixed direction - seems to work :)

Suicide galleys were a complete dead loss - none of them survived more than 1 turn and they were heading in the wrong direction :) Fortunately the Tokugawa snared the lighthouse and contacted me - even better, barbarians sunk them before they met the other civs - very satisfying :)

Unfortunately a tactical error cost me 6 of my 14 horsemen on the turn chivalry was discovered - a nasty blow! Had to hand build more than I intended.

Next the Gugeyro fell to my knights. Their iron went early in the war and they were easy pickings.

Built up for a while and went for the Han with around 25 knights - overall goal being to capture the whole of my starting island then play nice. Captured 3 of their cities on the initial couple of turns then the counterattack came - hordes of MDI and longbows - lost one of my captured cities and barely fought them to a peaceful stalemate... decided I would wait a bit before trying again, but that is beyond the scope of this thread. The only upside was a second great leader, who built a new palace in their northern city of Hangchow.

Lots of fun with this and the alternate units look really cool - particularly like the bushi and footman replacements. Japanese mainland is a fascinating thing - would love to invade it , but my overall diplomatic goal puts paid to that and it would feel like desecrating a work of art... being entertained watching them interact with each other at the moment - Tokugawa seems to be the 500lb gorilla of that area...

Think this gotm is my favorite so far... several sleep deprived nights from it. Really glad that Gotm26 - Asian Melee is another unique game - got my 'thought buds' salivating already :crazyeye:

Edit: for sense.

Open Class

During the early part of the middle ages I continued to build my infrastructure. I caught up in techs by paying massive amounts of gold. I had intended to remain at peace in order to maintain good relations but the Han Dynasty took a shot at me. After I took a city he agreed to peace and we resumed living in peace...for now. After which I continued to build improvements, units, and keep up in techs.

Wtiberon

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/wtib_gotm_picture.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/ptw.gif 1.27f
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Predator

Link to my Ancient Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1275209#post1275209)

War with Goguryeo, Revolution (210BC-10AD)

The game continues to be exciting, and more difficult than I had expected, as I will describe. At the beginning of the Middle Ages, I had already overrun most of the Baejke, capturing the Pyramids and leaving them with 2 cities on the coast. I had then turned on the Goguryeo, but just as our war got started, I was able to complete construction and enter the Middle Ages (which is why I had held off on my revolution), in 210BC. I was excited to get Feudalism as my free tech, but less excited to find that the Han already had Engineering, as well as Monarchy. They would give me Engineering for Feudalism and 16gpt, but I declined, as I planned on attacking them next. (As it turned out, I should have traded anyway, they researched it on their own before my revolt was over). After some last-minute whippings, I began my revolt in 150BC, while finishing off the Goguryeo’s last 3 cities. The revolt lasted a revolting 8 turns, ending in 10AD. I captured Changyon, the Goguryeo’s last city, in 10BC, so I was at peace. However, during the anarchy, the Han completed Hanging Gardens, the Takeda got the Great Library, and the Mori finished the Great Wall. I was hoping for the Han to get the Lighthouse, so I could take it before anyone made contacts, but it was not to be. :(

The Korean Peninsula, 10AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/JustusII_G24_10AD_Mini.jpg

Era of Communications (10AD-400AD)

In 30AD I received the news that the Kuroda completed the Great Lighthouse in Osaka. I finally completed a road to the Han, who offered Fur and Silk for Wine, Dye, Ivory, and 12 gpt. Then, in 90AD, I saw a strange dark green Junk slide into view off my northern coast, then disappear again. I rushed spearmen along the coast and even into the territory of one of the last Baejke cities, but they could not see the Junk. I asked the Baejke, but they had no knowledge of it (so they said). However, in 110AD, I suddenly have contact with five new civilizations! The Baejke must have made contact in the interturn, then sold me out throughout the new land. The worst thing was that everyone else had Engineering, Monarchy, and Monotheism, while I was still a few turns away from it, so I had nothing to trade. I buy Monotheism from the Takeda for 6gpt so I can start on Son Buddhism, hoping that I can trade my way back into the game. The baejke are the only ones without Feudalism, so I am able to get the world map for it, and I see Japan!! Cool job on the map, Cracker etc.!! Now that I have Monotheism, I realize Kruda, Mori and Tokugawa have Samauri Code as well! I do get the final two contacts, and the poor Shimazu were left behind, and don’t have Monotheism yet, so I am able to get Engineering for it. I will be clawing my way for tech for the next 400 years, and my only saving grace is that the Shimazu and Chosogabe seem poorer than the rest, and get the techs a little slower, so I can usually wait until they have one, but everyone else has two, then buy one and trade for the second.
I nearly bankrupt myself to get Buddhism in 250AD, only to find someone beat me to it, and all but two civs already have it this turn! I am able to trade to the Oda for Invention, and the Shimazu for Samauri Code. I then start on Education, but am beaten to it in only five turns! This is my last attempt at my own research for a while, I realize I can’t keep pace and need to build up cash. I decide on a new gambit though, using a Scientist in a corrupt city to research Music Theory at 40 turns. (Can’t say yet if it worked or not ;) ). Otherwise, I am building cash and trying to buy techs when I can get a two-for-one deal by trading with the “have-nots”. Unfortunately, even after destroying two of my neighbors, I have no Great Leaders, and have not been able to build the Forbidden Palace, so corruption is taking half my income, and I am struggling for cash. I have maintained a good reputation, even with the wars, so I can buy on gpt. I eventually get Education and Gunpowder. Between 250-400AD I finish clearing the barbs off the island, although I have to move into the Han city’s radius to get the last volcano. I decide to finish off the Baejke to try and get a Great Leader, but even using mostly elites, no luck.

The Newly Known World, 250AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/JustusII_G24_250AD_Mini.jpg

To be continued, next post

The Hundred Years War (410AD - 510AD)

My luxury deal with the Han ends, and they want just about all my cash to renew. I am already paying out 40+gpt for past tech deals, and I can’t really afford to pay more. I decide not to renew and conduct a limited war. I know Knights vs. Muskets is usually not a good matchup, but everyone just got gunpowder a couple turns ago, and the AI is usually bad about upgrading, so I might still have a small window. My plan, as you can see for the map, was to use the mountains as natural barriers. My main attack would be down the eastern valley, taking Nanking, Shantung, and Tatung, securing both the Silks and Furs. This effort had mostly knights (10+), and several Kensai, as well as a few supporting Otomo and Agashiru and 3 catapults. (I was so cash-strapped, I hadn’t upgraded most of my spearmen to Oda Arquebesiers yet. In fact, several turns I had to sell my map around for 1gp each to every civ to get the money to upgrade one horse/turn, I was making like 73gpt). My supporting attack in the center was to take Hangchow, and then put defenders to block the mountain roads, and infiltrate a couple Kensai and spears to pillage his Iron and Saltpeter. This force had some Knights and Kensai, several spears, a couple of Odas, and 6 catapults, both for the assault and to support the defenders in the mountains.

Tactical Plan for Invasion of Han, 400AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/JustusII_g24_400_Plan.jpg

In hindsight, I should have waited until I could finish the upgrades before invading. As it turned out, Metallurgy became available a few turns later, and the H’wachas would have helped the initial assaults. I was rushed because I couldn’t afford to go too long without those luxuries, and if I made a new deal, I would have to wait 20 turns. I thought I would catch a lot of spear who hadn’t upgraded, but I think I only saw one. Every city had at least 3 muskets! (Side note to Cracker: Was the musketmen one of the “select units” whose cost was reduced for the AI on Predator??? To make it a cheap upgrade? If so, good idea, although painful!). Anyway, I invaded in 410AD. 420AD Hangchow fell after I defeated 3 muskets, a rider, and a longbow. I got a little luck here, the barracks was intact. I was still upgrading one unit per turn in Namp’o to the north, but being able to heal and upgrade here was a big help. I also took Kaifeng, their city on the barb island. 430AD was Nanking’s turn, again 3 muskets. I had positioned my defenders on the mountain roads just in time for a rush of riders and medieval infantry, I lost a couple of knights and the kensai going for the Iron. I actually sent 3 pairs, and none of them made it, but it did soak up multiple attacks and defeat several enemy units, so it wasn’t a complete waste. I should have sent them by ship to land in the south before the war.

440AD Tokugowa starts on Copernicus. Of course, all but one have it already. I buy it from my friends the Mori for an ROP and 33gpt, and am able to trade it to the poor Shimazu for Chemistry. Now I realize that most of them already have Metallurgy also, and I buy it from the Takeda for 50gpt. Finally I can upgrade these catapults to H’wacha! Except I am so broke, I can initially only upgrade 3, then 1 per turn. I am feeling a little better now, and planning on moving my new devices toward Shantung, when during the interturn several Han riders point long barrels at me and . . . :eek:

To be continued in the next Spoiler….

(BTW, the H’wacha explosion animation is cool, hadn’t seen that before! Also, still no great leaders, so the Forbidden Palace is just that, Forbidden right now. I can’t bring myself to do a Palace Jump, although this map was probably perfect for it, I am still convinced with all these elites I have to get a leader somewhere!) :wallbash:

As far as the other civs are concerned, the Mori and Takeda have generally been Polite toward me, and I trade primarily with them, although I try to keep everyone else involved with map sales. They seem pretty balanced with the exception of the Shimazu and Chosongabe, who are poorer and generally a tech behind. That has been my only leverage, is waiting to get 2 techs behind, buy one and trade with one of them for the other. I am not aware of any wars on that continent yet, although I also don’t have embassies with most of them, too short on cash. The lack of an FP is really hurting. I have never used so many taxmen, but with over a dozen totally corrupted cities, it is enough for an occasional upgrade. I probably would have been better off without this war, but we will see).

PTW Open

I am trying to play an entirely different game. Tired of huge empires and 2 hours long turns I decided to try a variant of the "Five City Challenge" which was eloquently described in the article by one of the prominent fanatics. Thus, I am limiting myself to seven cities only and trying to play a peaceful game, fighting just enough to prevent being hemmed in, sowing discord between Japanese clans, and trying to prevent the Han from becoming unreasonably powerful. I will probably lose - but lots of fun.
In the process I managed to send a junk north and be the first to dicover Japan. Most of you guys do not know what you missed!. Beutiful terrain there at early game stage, volanoes and many different unique units (colorful and original). You will not see that if you send the junk up later in the game.
Kudos to Cracker (and others) for designing such a beautiful game!

i am really starting to worry about something:

where is the rest of the gotm players? only so many people popping up in this thread. :( i would like to read more of what happened to you! :wavey:

have fun :D

PTW open 1.27f

Ancient age spoiler thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1282261#post1282261

I finished the great lighthouse in Pyongyang in 490BC, sent out 2 junks, and within a few turns discovered the Japanese. I entered the middle ages in 270BC after finishing research of currency first. My free tech was Monotheism, so I started Son Budhism at the max I could afford. At this point I had 36 Bushi, and a great leader in waiting to move my palace.

Research
==========
I sold currency for gpt. A few turns later I also sold monotheism for gpt.
Here were my contributors an 190BC, with research at 90% due and Son budhism due in 4 turns.
Chosogabe: 30gpt
Mori: 13gpt
Kuroda: 14gpt
Takeda: 8gpt

All techs after invention were 4 turn research. By the end of the middle ages, science was around 60-70%.
Tech finish dates
Son Budhism - 110BC
Education - 10AD
-trade for feudal warlords + engineering
Invention - 130AD
Gunpowder - 210AD
Astronomy - 270AD
Chemistry - 310AD
Physics - 350AD
Banking - trade from Oda
Magnetism - 390AD
TOG - 430AD
Metallurgy - 470AD, enter industrial ages.

Overall, the chosogabe were my best contributors, paying me around 150gpt at one point.

War
===========
At the start of the middle ages I had just begun my first war vs the Han.
Here is my invasion force at the Han border in 270BC after having just taken Hangchow:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/acivguy270bc.jpg
In the first war I took all but 5 cities in the far south, and Tatung to the far SW before I ran out of steam. I took Kaifeng on the barb Island in peace(abandoned it).
I took a time to consolidate my troops and finish off the Goguryeans. I then moved my units back south to finish the Han

Betrayal
===============
In 270AD I signed a ROP with the Han and moved troops in place next to all their cities. I declared war, and all but one fell.. with one dastardly spearman slaying several Bushi. I finished the Han off in 280AD. The Japanese nations all insist that there were other Korean tribes, but they have no proof and my reputation is spotless.

Here are miminaps showing my progress:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/minimaps.jpg

Infrastructure
===============
My entire military came from 3 cities. Seoul, Puhang, and Wonsan. After Iron was hooked up new horsemen were only built in Puhang & Wonsan. All of my other cities focused on peaceful infrastructure.

Palace & FP
=============
I hand built my fp in 90AD W-W-SW of Seoul in Hyangsan, and on the same turn rushed my palace between the cows & silk in the south. Here is a picture of my placement:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/acivguypalace.jpg

Middle age Wonders
=============
copernicus observatory: Korea, Pyongyang 440AD
Sun Tzu's: Takeda, Edo 530AD
Sistine, Bachs: Korea 550AD
Leonardo's: Oda, Ise 560AD
Magellan's: Tokugawa Fuji 570AD
Newtons: Korea, Pyongyang (leader) 580AD

Other Civs:
============
The civs on my landmass seemed fairly weak, but I think this was due to the great starting position we had. The Japanese were very peaceful, no wars among them that I noticed. But other than the Oda, they were fairly slow on research.

acivguy, you streaked through the Middle Ages. When I compare my effort (310 BC - 510 AD) to yours (270 BC - 470 AD), I see that you conquered the bulk of your territory much sooner, while devoting only a small part of your output to war. Excellent, aggressive management.

Are you guys going for Diplomacy win? If so why do you feel the need to conquer HAN. I think there was enough territory within the Korean lands to create two cores, which is all that matters when going for Diplomacy. Better to keep Han around for trading.

Smackster

Originally posted by Txurce
acivguy, you streaked through the Middle Ages. When I compare my effort (310 BC - 510 AD) to yours (270 BC - 470 AD), I see that you conquered the bulk of your territory much sooner, while devoting only a small part of your output to war. Excellent, aggressive management.

Thanks Txurce!
I think the most important factor was my initial ancient age research. By going max research until republic (instead of min on calligraphy like most people did) I was able to save more gold overall. 40 turns of min research on republic is worth much more than earlier techs. The gold from those 40 turns and a few turns before researching invention paid for all my unit upgrades. Over 90% of my Bushi were upgraded from warriors.

Also, had the Oda not researched banking for me, I would have finished in 510AD also.

Originally posted by smackster
Are you guys going for Diplomacy win? If so why do you feel the need to conquer HAN. I think there was enough territory within the Korean lands to create two cores, which is all that matters when going for Diplomacy. Better to keep Han around for trading.

Smackster

I did it for a few reasons:
1. I had 36 bushi left over after goguryeans + baekje
2. I had autorazed several cities, and didn't care for Japan to find out.
3. You never know where resources will turn up, so the more land the better.
4. Higher score :)

edit - and they had some luxuries I wanted.

This has been my first GOTM, and for fear of breaching rules I read no threads in here at all. Turned out to be a mistake, since there's a lot to be learnt. ...

Redacted

edit: thanks, cracker! great work!

Test_specimen, welcome to the games and sorry I had to cut out 99% of your post. The spoielr process is really fairly simple, you just need to read the first post of the spoiler threads and then keep the wheels of the bus between the lines.

In this case you cannot post discussion of the industrial age and how you ended that game because that does not fit the limits of this discussion thread. You'll get the hang of it because it is like viewing the game in phases. -cracker

Err, in fear of breaking rules, you just did...

You aren't supposed to talk about the game beyond the Middle ages. What you talk about belongs in the next spoiler. No worries, you wont be banned (unless cracker goes crackers) though a mod will edit your post if you dont. If you are ever worried about breaking the rules, simply read them ;)

Well, my Middle Ages was pretty much infratructure building, and keeping up with tech. At the start, I was finishing off the olives, and later on I was building up to invade the pink. I am being constantly reminded to finish my warring as soon as possible, aking it all quickly, but I just cant keep up with tech in the Middle ages when I am waging war.

So I pose a question:
1) When did you stop building settlers?
2) When did you start preparing for your first war?
3) When did you stop it?
4) How did you go about your next war?

Please, somebody answer. This is the part of my game that I mess up the most. I feel like next game going immediately from my first war to my second, with no break. destroy one nation, then attack another one as soon as possible, while I am in war mode.

He Gingerbread,

1. I only built one settler, founded Pyongyang (in direction of pinks), then built non stop warriors.

2. ASAP war with pinks (with 7 or 8 warriors) Conquered pinks, got 3 cities extra, all building warriors. Got iron, upgrade and build bushi. ASAP war with olive. the're bigger than pink.

3. War until gogur.. trades his remaining non cap cities for peace.

4. With olive reduced to 1 city, war on han. Every city building bushis, the slaves build supply route to the front. When 10 bushis are concentrated close to Han, unleash hell. Same as with olive, go on until Han gives up all his cities.

Strong points of this tactic: take control of peninsula early, direct enemies removed, lot of extra cities and slaves.
Weak: no culture, no research (you capture some of course)

Posted some more in spoiler 1.

Happy hunting!

1. I stopped building settlers when all the initial land was taken. If I'm going to do a palace jump and my capital is the settler factory then you might just as well keep building settlers until the jump. In this game I didn't want to do a palace jump so stopped building settler and started improvements in the capital. I started building the warriors from my second city very early.

2. In this game I attacked Beakje when I had about 14 Bushi (half elite), which attacked in two groups.

3. I stopped when they had one far off city.

4. I attacked Gougi when I had a similar numbers of Bushi (or upgraded ones). I like a minimum of stacks of 6, usually 2 stacks, but prefer double that number. So I waited until I had that many and then attacked. In this game the second attack stalled as the Gougi defence was stronger than I expected and I didn't have enought attackers. At the time I'd waited too long I thought.

Smackster: as acivguy pointed out, conquering the Han raises your Jason score, on which the GOTM competition is centered, without necessarily damaging your chances of a diplomatic victory. If you view the game strictly as the first of the new Medal Play season, then conquering the Han may or may not help the research pace required to gain a diplomatic victory asap.

Gingerbread Man: the hardest part of the game for me at this point is also how to research quickly while expanding. When I do a mediocre a job in this area, it tends to be because I split my focus too much between building units and infrastructure. Not that it can't be done - acivguy's last post is one good example of how to do both, and all of the very top players have licked this problem.

Part of the answer is to be ready to light the fuse on your second core by building a second palace as soon as the core begins taking shape. In theory, the sheer size of your civ - two working cores - is enough to fuel fast research while in republic in the early Middle Ages. After that, it's relatively easy to build infrastructure and maintain a fast research rate... even while still expanding.

My answers to your questions:

1) When did you stop building settlers?

When there's no more room to settle.

2) When did you start preparing for your first war?

Barracks are the first thing I build in most of my cities, followed by units. Ideally, you build lower-cost units, then upgrade them with gold - but this isn't always feasible.

3) When did you stop it?

I didn't. As you point out, there's no reason to stop until your second core is amassed, or you can see that you have enough units on hand to finish the job. Keep in mind that not stopping the war effort doesn't mean you're necessarily at war with the next civ - but you don't postpone preparations for it.

4) How did you go about your next war?

Again, just as I did for the first one - building enough units to at least start the war, knowing reinforcements are on the way. (Most of the better players build up a larger invasion force than I do, but I'm not sure they come out ahead.) The only difference between the first war and the second is the possible need to upgrade units, so as to counter the enemy's technological advances (like pikemen).

Originally posted by Txurce
Smackster: as acivguy pointed out, conquering the Han raises your Jason score, on which the GOTM competition is centered, without necessarily damaging your chances of a diplomatic victory. If you view the game strictly as the first of the new Medal Play season, then conquering the Han may or may not help the research pace required to gain a diplomatic victory asap.

Yes, I have my brain so fixed around fastest win now that I only think about the score when I go to post the win (or loss). I like the fastest win idea as it does shorten the length of the game a little without reducing the enjoyment.

Originally posted by smackster

I like the fastest win idea as it does shorten the length of the game a little without reducing the enjoyment.

I also enjoy not worrying about civ size - in game 5-6, I never bothered to approach the northern island, because I didn't need it. It took me forever to adapt to playing for anything other than fastest time. However, I've come to realize that building a good-sized civ is often the fastest way to the fastest time.

Predator level.

Here is a repost of my Ancient Age timeline with the contact and trades with other nations that resulted from a suicide junk. In the initial post I cut them:

4000 BC – Founded Seoul on the spot; worker to cow; terra cotta in 15 turns
3800 BC – Warrior exploring south
3600 BC – Start Barracks for Granary prebuild; 2nd Warrior exploring east; Worker to S wool
3450 BC – Met Kyon Hwon of Baekje; 2nd warrior turns southeast
3300 BC – Researching Burial Rituals at max; switch to Granary
3200 BC – Worker heads to northern wool
3050 BC – Granary complete; start warrior
3000 BC – Met Wu-Ti of Han dynasty; Met Kwanggaeto of Gogury; traded Wu Alphabet for Masonry, 10g; traded Kwang Alphabet for Martial Arts, Burial Rit, 8g; Research Taoist Mysticism at full - necessary luxuries
2950 BC – 3rd Warrior goes north; Micromanaging Seoul-considering switching off Myst at full because when I moved citizen to road-less grassland, research time went up, Nah, I’ll leave it. Running deficit of -1
2900 BC –1st warrior exploring west between Han and coastline; 2nd warrior exploring NE on Gogury border
2850 BC – 4th Warrior complete, assigned to police force; start settler (due in 3, growth in 3). The enemies are capturing land fast.
2750 – spotted giant squid in water east of Munsan!
2710 BC – first settler produced, start warrior
2630 BC – warrior produced, start settler
2590 BC – founded P’yongyang 3 squares due south of Seoul
2510 BC – settler done, start another (this time done in 4 with growth every 2)
2390 BC – traded Kwang Myst for Iron Culture; 40 turns to Shamanism; oooh, neet: the place I was already sending settler is on iron
2350 BC – sending settler to far-off wine-hope he makes it; Founded Wonsan on Iron-may go for Pyramids
2030 BC – founded Pusan 2 squares northwest of wine
1990 BC – traded Kyon Masonry, 11g for Wheel
1950 BC – traded Kyon Iron Culture for 40g; founded Puhang, my first coastal city
1910 BC – founded Yondok
1675 BC – founded Andong; built last settler, switching to workers for a while
1650 BC – Kyon wanted 35 gold and I sent him packing (with great trepidation)
1575 BC – Discovered new Iron near Pusan
1550 BC – Founded Samchok; traded Wu 165g for Calligraphy
1525 BC – Founded Kangyang
1400 BC – Wu established embassy in my capitol
1325 BC – Switched Seoul to footman in anticipation of forest harvest
1300 BC – Wu has Map Making, but too expensive at Monopoly
1175 BC – Traded Wu Shamanism for Mapmaking, Map, 140g (left him with 1g); traded Kwang Shamanism for Math and 5g (all); traded Baekje map for map and 30g (all); traded Wu map for 1g
1025 BC – Spotted a volcano? on the little island (and lots of barbs)
950 BC – Sent my junk on a suicide mission off the west coast of the volcano island. Sure wish I knew what the heck those things do
900 BC – Lost my junk far out at sea and in sight of land
875 BC – Traded Baekje Shamanism for Bajatsu
825 BC – Takeda constructed Oracle; Oda constructed Colossus
650 BC – Refused to give Han tribute, he declared war; Established embassy with Kyon (Pyramids 12 turns) and Kwang (Pyramids 10 turns): mine will be done in 4; gave Kwang wool, 100g, map for alliance; upgrading 5 warriors to swordsmen; moving others to barracks for upgrade
630 Suicide galley meets the Mori at and got this message: “; Hidemoto San = AI’s trade offer” Indeed, and double gobbledygook on you! Hidemoto has lots of contacts to trade. Traded 260 for Kuroda contact;
traded Nagamasa Shamanism, 125g for Contact with Chosogabe and Tokugawa;
Traded Marichika Shamanism, MapMaking, 10g for Contact with Oda, Takeda and Map;
Traded Takeda World Map, Shamanism for Map, 14g, Confucianism;
Traded Kuroda World Map for Map and 150g (all);
Traded Tokugawa map for map and 62g (all);
Traded Baekje Map for Civil Service and 30g plus alliance against Han;
Traded Goguryeo Map for 107g(all) and map;
traded Oda map for 133g and map;
traded Mori map and civil service for 370g, map;
traded Chosogabe map for 13g and map
590 BC – Traded Oda 315g and map for Construction; built Pyramids
490 BC – Traded Goguryeo Construction, Map and 330g for Monarchy;
Put Seoul on Hanging Gardens hoping for GL prebuild;
Traded Baekje Construction for 112 (all)
470 BC – Revolution
410 BC – Lost race for Great Lighthouse to my “buddies”, the Goguryeo, switched to Hanging Gardens
390 BC – Korean Monarchy Formed; switched to Literacy at full – luxuries
380 BC – Built hanging gardens
370 BC – Traded Tokugawa Monarchy for Currency, entered middle ages;
Traded Kuroda Monarchy for 240g,
Traded Baekje 35 for worker;
Traded Takeda Monarchy for 101 gold plus map
310 BC – Met Shimazu…thought I had already met everyone. They have a one-square island city. I hate it when the computer makes those!
70 AD – Refuse to be blackmailed, Karoda declare war
90 AD – Refuse to be blackmailed, Takeda declare war
410 AD – declared war on Goguryeo
420 AD – finished Sistene Chapel and entered Golden Age

For the rest of my GA, I built mostly knights with a few libraries and markets thrown in. Right near the end I switched to cavalry. I had temples everywhere early on. At this point I also looked back over my posting, and realized that—with the exception of the trading information—I had left out everything of interest, like strategic decisions or the progress of the other nations. Oooops. I will try to do a little better in the future.

Best effort at recapping main decisions in 560 AD (warning: this is going to be disjointed).

I only settled 8 cities from my settler factory, because all the good territory was gone around 1675 BC. Wish I had read Qitai’s post about the settler/warrior factory: I was just one turn of micromanagement away…I never secured a horse resource, so Kaesong became a planned target early in the game. When they build the Lighthouse in Munson in 410 BC their fate was sealed—although I waited too long for the war. I am guessing it was around 800 BC that I was able to trade with the Baekje for Horses, and proceeded to build many of them leading up to my war on the Goguryeo in 410 AD.

I found Japan by luck. Unlike many of you, I did not notice the “upside down” Korean peninsula. The trading was wonderful, although I never gave them contact with the Korean continent. By the time Seafaring was discovered, I had forgotten about the contacts and missed my opportunity.

In the early AD, Tokugawa was by far the strongest nation, followed by the Kuroda and then the Oda, Takeda, Shimazu and Koreans. However, the Kuroda declared war on me, and I had their neighbors—the Oda and the Mori—ally with me. The Kuroda were all but destroyed within 200 years. They maintained one coastal city on the southernmost tip of Takeda lands. I signed a similar alliance with Tokugawa against the Takeda but saw no results from it. Only the Baekje and Tokugawa are ahead of me in culture. The power graph places the Oda as strongest by a fairly large margin. Sicing them on the Kuroda may have unpleasant future consequences.

I got Samurai Code in 400 AD and upgraded horsemen in mass (I had a little over 2000g at that point. I continued to build knights throughout the war with Goguryeo. I had been at war with the Han since early in the ancient age, but because I had the Goguryeo sign an alliance with me, I never saw a single Han unit until I had taken all the Goguryeo cities except Kuson, located on the south eastern coast. As I had captured the southern and northern irons early in the game, Goguryeo only had spearmen to defend his cities from my knights. The Goguryeo and I are now at peace. I took Beijing in 540 AD and then signed peace with them as well. In 560 AD I continued my military buildup (26 knights, 19 muskets, and a few kensai and catapults) in preparation for war with the Baekje, who still control 11 cities on the continent.

When I signed the peace treaty, I noticed many of my citizens become UNhappy. War making people HAPPY? I had never noticed this in other games. I am usually a Republic or Democracy, so I was wondering if this is a function of Monarchy or if there was a modification made to this scenario. Anyone know about this phenomenon? I also noted that my citizens have been extremely happy this game in general. I am not sure if this is simply a combination of the lower emperor difficulty level and luxuries, or if there is another factor in play.

I started my FP at some point in the early AD in Samchok (9.5 distance SE from Seoul) and the most central location on the continent. It was finished around 500 AD. At the time I started the build I was planning to establish a second core later in Tokogawa/Takeda holdings with my palace. Now I am thinking this was a poor decision, simply because of the time such a war will require. My turns go ridiculously slow when I am at war. It may mean I will not finish by the submission deadline. I wish I had established my cores on either end of my continent and ridden the peace train to the end. The war on the Japanese continent may also make the diplomatic victory much more difficult: I am not really sure how relations will develop with the foreign nations. I imagine it will depend on the number of allies I can secure when the UN is built.

Since around 400 AD, my research has taken around 4-6 turns per discovery, but the AI is staying right with me. I have been able to successfully choose techs he has not, however, and the trades have been quite profitable. I am currently at war with the Takeda, Kuroda and Oda.

Wonders construction has gone pretty well, but that is also why my wars came so late: Pyramids (590 BC), Hanging Gardens (110 BC), Great Library (90 BC), Leonardo (380 AD), Sistene (410 AD)

By the way, I watch the fascinating and entrancing movements of the Horde on Barbarian Island for 22 seconds after every turn—with shift held down. Aaarrrgh.

The civs on the Japanese continent all seem extremely warlike (annoyed), toward me, but they are quite happy with each other. A few alliances did move them to cautious or polite temporarily.

End of 560 recap.

570 AD – declared war on Baekje. Took 4 cities.
580 AD – bad, bad luck. One of my irons expired, and it popped up right next to the Baekje capitol. Goodbye footmen, hello pikemen. Crap.

Thanks for the answers guys. So for next game, I will build a second city, then warrior rush. Regroup, and immediately make my second war. That is, of course, unless another settler factory turns up.

lol. Sorry for not reading the whole rules. I thought if it says spoiler, it means you can post anything. But since I played almost straight through, and since I already have finished my game, it's hard to post without pointing out where my mistakes were, in retrospect.

To limit it to the middle ages: I also built the Sistine Chapel and IIRC Newton's Univ.. I finished off pink, Han finished off olive. I got most advances through clever trade, since my science infrastructure was at the beginning of the MA not very well established (thought that the GL would take care of this). I did not plan for another war. I tried to keep everyone as happy as could be, so they would leave me and my scientific advance alone.

I got my GA through Great Library and Adam Smith but even maximizing research I just can't get the lead in science. I've united the northern end of the peninsula (South Korea) but am well on my way to losing my 3rd out of 4 GOTM.

If I can get Takeda off my back I'll concentrate on uniting Korea and conquering the Han as a cool "yeah, I lost but..." goal

Predator, 1.27f PTW, my first gotm played with PTW.

Nothing exciting happened in the Ancient Ages just building and settling. We somehow managed to get Great Library and Great Wall.

Good luck was that our junk made contact with Japanese civilization in about 1300 BC. Bad luck included mainly 3 points. First, astonishing lack of leaders despite about 30 elite wins during victorious wars with Gogury and Baekje. That is why the second core is not established because the Forbidden Palace is still being hand-built. Second, and probably related to the first, is lack of wonders. We have only STAW and Japanese beat us constantly for 2-3 turns to others so Seoul has very expensive Cathedral and Bank. Third, revolting from Despotism to Republic took 7 turns but we did not fell behind in science thanks to the Great Library.

Overall situation by the end of the Middle Ages is satisfactory. We kept monopoly for contacts with Japanese and made huge money trading maps and some techs because of this. From Baekje we inherited Pyramids and thus Firaxis score is more or less OK (about 1500 at the beginning of Industrial Age at 570 AD). We are fully ready to war with Han and can take him out probably within no more that 10 turns. All Japanese civilization are polite except Shimazu who carelessly wanted to abuse RoP by landing a stack of warriors near Seoul and trying to sneak-attack it.

The game is exceptionally funny and getting a high score or winning around 1000 AD can be very difficult. To increase the score, it would be probably possible to conquer 2 or even 3 Japanese civilizations however this may slow down the research significantly.

In this age, my focus is consolidating my continent for me! I have Temples, Barracks and am focused on military units, mostly foot soldiers. In hindsight – needed more mobile forces for balance. Stayed in Despotism to pop-rush temples in all new captured territory. In hind-site probably should have gone with libraries as they were cheaper. What are thoughts on Monarchy vs. Despotism for middle age wars? All my wars were declared so as not to ruin my reputation; does it matter if others never find out, or do other civ’s know automatically? I prefer total war (only leave 1-2 cities to trade for techs, then wipe out; if they are behind, no mercy). Seems many have the limited war process down.

230BC – still in AA, started total war on Baekjen; 30AD now the Goguryean feel my wrath. The Odan show up to say hi, so I meet all the Japanese; realized I’m way behind in tech. Capture GL from Gog’s in 360 AD getting 6 techs, up to Gunpowder and Education. I only use a scientist for 40-turn research. Since I have an abundance of resources, trading saltpeter and other for techs throughout the ages with the warring Japanese, though they never bug me. In 430 AD start war w/ Han. In 790AD build the only middle age wonder I got, Newton’s University, triggering my Despot Golden Age (had Colossus built earlier). At this point only a cleanup war in which I eliminate all other civ’s from my continent by 980 AD, by which time I entered the next age so ‘nough said for now. All this war and NO culture flips (yea!) or great leaders (boo!). I use elite troops whenever possible, is there some trick I’m missing? Even in GOTM 23 I only got one great leader on my way to a domination victory.

Great scenario!! Love the graphics, historical accuracy by using real "tribes", etc..

Monarchy vs Despotism ?
I usually jump to more advanced governement type because production is vastly improved and help you bring more reinforcement.

Reputation ?
If you can manage to wipe out all civs from your continent without the other continent knowing. you can do it with all "dirty" tricks available - Sneak attack - ROP breach ...

Quick summary up to middle ages.

Played on Conquest level due to the fact I got it handed to me with the vikings and wanted to get a step up on this one.

Han, Baekje, and Goguryeo moved fast in their expansion and I had to get the settlers pumping to keep up with them.

Built GL as my only Ancient wonder

Han was too big to conquer and stayed my biggest competition all game.

Baekje picked up some nice early wonders so I targeted them for first expansion.

I started to attack Baekje in the AA and didnt get through them with some poor battle tactics. Vied for peace until I got Sun Zu and knights and went through them got pyramids and sistine from them.

Kept up the warlike ways and took out Goguryeo soon thereafter.

Good timing on attacking Goguryeo as when I got Adam Smiths it kicked in my GA. Goguryeo went down fast and I went into peace mode for the rest of the game.

Was close to tech level of others but lagged behind one or so until the next spoiler.

Not doing as well as I would have hoped by now, but still having a great time with this game. Only one small complaint - there is no way... and I mean NO WAY that little barb island could support all those horses !!! ;)

I put the first city there along with 5 spear and 1 sword. I sent more units over as they were available and soon had a number of elites, but thos barbs kept coming and coming and coming!!

Well, ended up spending a much longer time focused there lost track of the big picture. I was the first to Feudalism, but wanted to hold off trading anyone until I was able to finish up on Barb Island, then go take the Pyramids from Baekje. Got so focused on the barbs that I missed making the trade altogether - someone finished researching and beat me to it. By the time I got my forces back and in position for Baekje, they had Gunpowder already and my forces were no longer the 'superior' force I had planned on fielding.

The Han then declared war against the Baekje, and I watched them absorb a wave of Baekje knights then begin to march northward. I was still trying to add some knights to my own forces when it looked as if the Han were going to be taking the Baekjen pyramids soon. So, I entered a MPP with Han and got the Baekja to attack.

Unfortunately, the majority of my forces were shot to pieces at the first Baekjen city by their muskets. By the time I was able to field enough knights to take the first city, the Han were on the doortstep of their capital, and they took the pyramids soon after.

On the bright side, Baekje seems to have stripped most of the remaining cities in an attempt to hold off the Han, so I should be able to get a couple more cities and at least some resources.

I've embassies with almost all of the other civs and am on good terms. Just need to keep the Han happy after we're finished mopping up the Baekjen!

Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank. But for a fast diplomatic victory it is not important to keep the AI poor, since we need to trade science. (Unless we want to attack them and bar their upgrade options.) During the Middle ages I found out that always researching something that the AI would not choose (eg Chemistry and Metallurgy) gave me huge amounts of money.

The AI civs seem to have an unfortunate habit (for them) to all research the same thing, then buy it from the civ that completes it first. Since several AI:s then have the same tech, that tech loses it's value compared to our own tech and we can sell ours to the richest civ for tons of gold, then to the second richest for heaps of gold, and so on until that tech is also devalued. I recall that France have sometimes researched literature when nobody else has, but I'm not at all sure I remember correctly.

My observations from Barb Island were that by the time the AI had pikemen, the even stupider barbs could not hurt them. I did not settle Barb Island myself, but trained my knights a little on the unsettled area. Boy, this game takes time. Large maps must be for big fanatics, and huge maps must be for fanatically fanatic fanatics (or something).

This is my first post at civfanatics and my first GOTM that I really going to try to submit. It's also my first Emporer level game so drinks all around on me! :beer: I'd also like to thank all those who post stratagies here as they have made Civ 3 become, for me, one hell of an addiction! My wife does not thank you.

Anyway, I was trying for the QSC but messed up the submittal file so I will save that first for another time. By 1000 B.C. I had encountered the 3 other civ's on the island and decided that I must have this landmass. I was able to complete the GL in 800 B.C. and ride the tech wave all the way to Chemistry/Education (got both on the same turn due to thankfully savy AI trading). However, for whatever inane reason, I was trying to research along the lower branch while conquering the pinks and greens. This wasted a lot of money and probably will cost me later in this game.

By 330 B.C., I had finished by first war with the Baekje and had taken 4 cities and autorazed 1. They were, however, able to build the Pyr. and Great Lighthouse. 1 turn before I launched my second war (20 turns after the end of the 1st), the Baekje had met all the Japanese civ's and sold them my contact. While this was great research-wise, it messed-up my rep. Oh well, they paid for it in spades! :evil:

By 250 B.C., Baekje are completely off the continent and settled 1 last city on a little isle east (next to Tak.). At 400 A.D., war with the olives is started. They are completely assimilated by 600 A.D. in one long conflict. I now control the continent down to the neck near the capital of the Han.

However, in two wars and numerous battles, I get exactly 0 great leaders. A bit fat 0! My infrastructure is weak and I am behind (I believe) by at least 4 techs. I finish researching metalurgy only to be beaten by the Han's by 2 turns. I spend way too much money on troop support and happiness to get any real research going. In my previous Monarchy games, I was able to get to Military Tradition 1st and then continue my conquering ways. This time this stratagy looks like it's doomed. I am completely dejected and almost decide to quite.

However, after a good nights sleep, I go back at it. I put the research slider to 0%, change one entertainer to scientists, build up some cash reserves, and go on a tech buying spree. Much to my suprise, I am only 2 techs behind so I am able to wheel and deal quite well, trading for astronomy, banking, physics, military tradition, democracy, etc. all the way to the industrial ages. With the IA tech, I get all the money back, plus more and get lots of luxuries. Everyone is happy and I'm ready to go on an infrastructure/unit upgrading spree. Looks like I might pull this off yet. :cool:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Megalou
Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank.

:rotfl:

Bloody marvelous!

Originally posted by Naboo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Megalou
Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank.

:rotfl:

Bloody marvelous!

Dear Sir,

Sorry to be Mr. Killjoy here, but I think the intent is to allow the AI to get rich (by whatever means they devise) and that allows them to spend all their hard earned cash on your newly researched technology / and or spare (or not spare) resources.

Yours Faithfully,

Mr Killjoy

This may be a bit off topic, but going through these posts, I am amazed at the number of great leaders everyone seems to get. Either I am very unlucky or I'm doing something wrong - I have all but wiped out the three other Civs on the landmass using elite units whenever possible, have barracks everywhere and not got a leader. My last GOTM was similar where I got a diplo victory but no leaders untill it was too late to make a difference.

My question is - is there a stratagy to maximise the chance of a leader occuring?


ps great map cracker

Berzerkerjoe: I used to have exactly the same problem as you. But now I have a "method" if you can call it that which works for me.

Firstly I only go to war with vet and elite units. Regulars stay home.
The second thing is that a unit is guaranteed a promotion if it wins two battles in one turn. So I place vet units next to enemy units and allow them to be attacked on the interturn. The ones that survive unscathed are then used to attack something when my turn comes round. If I win I get an elite. In this way I have a high proportion of elite units.

The third thing is that I use fast units. This is because they can retreat and therefore have a higher surviveability. Although weaker, you wind up with a higher proportion of elite units again.

The fourth thing I do is to ensure I have a barracks close to the action so I can heal units quickly and get them back into battle.

As far as the actual battles go I don't do anything different to most people. The battle will start using vet units and then the elites are used on weaker and damaged units. Elites are also used on unfortified units in open ground.

I always stack my elites on a unit that has a higher defensive value. Then on the interturn it is the defender that gets killed and not the elite. Also the attacker is usually damaged and the elite gets an easy kill.

I position my troops in such a way that I can get from one battlefield to another in one turn where possible, so elites can fight on consequetive turns. Sometimes that means not attacking from the tile with the highest defensive bonus.

In the end it all comes down to how many elite battles you can win per turn. How many elites can you build, how often can they fight, how advantageious can you make the odds of a victory?

In taking control of my landmass in this game I fought around 60 Elite battles, lost maybe four elite units and generated 4 leaders before Jesus was born. The numbers are approximate. I did keep count for a while, but got bored....

Better players may have better answers of course.

Thx mad-bax,
some good idvice here

Originally posted by BerzerkerJoe
My question is - is there a stratagy to maximise the chance of a leader occuring?

Sometimes the random nature of this business does drive you crazy. I generally follow the advice of mad-bax, but in this game I have also generated no leaders.

Originally posted by BerzerkerJoe
This may be a bit off topic, but going through these posts, I am amazed at the number of great leaders everyone seems to get. Either I am very unlucky or I'm doing something wrong - I have all but wiped out the three other Civs on the landmass using elite units whenever possible, have barracks everywhere and not got a leader. My last GOTM was similar where I got a diplo victory but no leaders untill it was too late to make a difference.

My question is - is there a stratagy to maximise the chance of a leader occuring?


ps great map cracker

Look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61506) . Sir Pleb is one of the top players and offers excellent advice.

I had no luck with leaders either... but Sir Pleb's article was useful in knowing now how it works... I really got screwed. I thought the odds were alot lower. :p

Its also good to know that you cant get a leader if you already have an active one? I've sat on leaders and wondered why I've not gotten more. :)

Strange, but in THIS game I had two or three leaders. I used them to rush-build wonders. I usually never have that many leaders, and I have absolutely no idea why I had so many this time. Perhaps this is also why it was less struggle than I usually have at this level. When I played the Arab GOTM (which I didn't send in, because it was too late) I had none, though I had quite a lot of elite units because of constant wars.

My Arab GOTM produced and early leader; an undefended veteran musketman was making its way to a captured city when it got ambushed by knights. The following all happened in the same turn.
The first battle saw him upgraded to elite status, the second took him down to 3 hit points, the third produced a great leader and took him down to 1 hit point. You can guess the rest - the forth knight finished him off and took out my leader also. I watched all this happening - my wife told me off for my poor language.

PTW 1.21 OPEN

(See spoiler #1 for the beginning of this saga)

With the 1000 celebration behind him Wang Kon looked to the future. “We need more cities” he said his son Flun Kee, “Round up some volunteers to move elsewhere”. Soon two more cities joined his empire. Wang felt good about his place in the universe until an ambassador from the Han Dynasty arrived with a request for 76g and the map of his country, begrudgingly he yielded these minor tokens, with the thought of revenge someday.

The dedication of the “Great Library of Pusan” was a festival Wang had not seen since the days of the 1000-year celebration. That day marked the return of Korea to technical parity as the knowledge of Iron Culture, Mathematics, Confucianism, Civil Service, Map Making, Bajutsu and Construction were delivered to his empire from distant lands. Soon Wang was able to parlay these new technologies into slaves, maps and gold from his backward neighbors. He even got so bold as to demand tribute from both the Baejke and the Gorgoyeo.

With the knowledge of currency and shamanism arriving, Wang felt is once fledgling empire had moved to a new era. With the gift of Monotheism from a wandering wise man, Wang felt his nation was moving ahead of the rest, but there were dark clouds on the horizon. Soon knowledge of two new forms of government was acquired. Wang said “I’ve ruled unquestioned long enough” and began the rocky path to a new way of governing.

General Banga Head rushed in to the developing throne room startling Wang, “There are reports of Gorgoyeo troops in our territory,” he yelled. Wang quickly sent for the Gorgoyeo ambassador to demand the removal of this insult only to be greeted by a declaration of war. “If it’s war they want General Head, then let them feel my wrath”. The Gorgoyeo cities of Yongbon and Sariwon fell quickly to the well-trained Bushi and with the new government in place (after 6 periods of turmoil), King Kon ordered the carnage to continue. Kanggye, Haeju, Munsan, Ongjin and Namp’o had fallen to the Bushi without must resistance, when the Gorgoyeo ambassador arrived, with head bowed asked for peace. “For peace, I required penance for your transgressions,” said Wang and thus Kuson, Changyon and Manp’o were added to his kingdom and peace was once again the order of the day.

The Great Library provided Wang with the knowledge of Feudal Lords, Engineering, Gunpowder and Sun Buddhism. Many of the trained Bushi, were rearmed with new weapons improving them to Kensai and an additional Palace of governing was completed in Samchok and time moved on. Flun also informed Wang that the people had begun building him his own private palace.

“General Head, I find our people need elbow room, we’ve run out of places to settle. I appoint you to solve our little space problem”, and so with those words, the Korean War machine began adding Baejke cities to the empire. With the taking of the fourth Baejke city, a Great Leader, Yi Song-gye stepped from the elite troops. The arrival of silks from the Han (for some extra ivory & dyes) allowed Wang to sleep in great comfort that night (good by to the woolies) in his recently expanded private residence (4 more expansions).

With the acquisition of chemistry from the Great Library, Wang ordered the elders to wake up and begin working on new technologies. The days of free science would soon be over.

What a year thought Wang, the War Academy dedicated to Sun Tzu, the Workshop of Leonardo (built through the inspiration of Song-yge), the knowledge of education and the discovery of a new Great Leader, Chu-Mong, during the conquering of Ch’ongju, with that pointy topped wonder and the really big wall wonder, all that and a new wing on my private palace.

Soon the last Baejke cities fell and the northern end of Korea was united. With scientific study returning and new knowledge being acquired at regular pace, Wang was amazed at the celebrations across his lands when the Bach’s Cathedral was completed under the direction of Chu-Mong record time. Peace with the exiled Baejke came with the gift of Kumch’on on Barbarian Island and that was quickly given to the Gorgoyeo (and taken from them by the Baejke the next year). The slap in the face of not defending a gift was more then Wang could tolerate and soon the war the Gorgoyeo was back on. Kaesong fell to the Kensai and Pak Hyokkose was delivered as the third Great Leader. The final Gorgoyeo city of Sinuiju was taken and they were no more. Soon another expansion to the private palace was added (#9).

A flurry of trading activity for Economics netted Physics, Theory of Gravity, Military Tradition, Navigation and Democracy, beginning another period of anarchy as Wang determined it’s time for a government of the people to rule this land. As the anarchy began, the recently settled city of Pyongsong on the Barbarian Island left them empire for the exiled Baejke.

With the end of the 7 long years of anarchy and the surprise in his election as President of Korea, Wand smiled at the combined opening of Smith’s Trading Post and Newton’s University (thanks Hyokkose) ushering in the Golden Age of Korea.

With that this chapter comes to an end. Stay tuned for the next episode.

[ptw] 1.27f OPEN

As mentioned in my previous (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1278423#post1278423) posts (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1280424#post1280424) I entered the middle ages in 590BC. I get Engineering as my free tech and start Monotheism. I'm doing negative net research to reduce gold reserve in anticipation of settling on the barb island. Baekje is already there and seems to be holding off the barbs fairly well.

I have an ROP with Baekje that will end around 390BC and then I will attack them. They built the pyramids in capital 750BC, and then the Great Library in Taejon (iron city) in 510BC, and the Great Wall in capital in 390BC.

During Baekje war, they build Lighthouse. I was 1 turn away in Seoul and had to get Monarchy from Han to switch to Hanging Gardens. I end up getting the HG myself, and the Pyramids, Great Library, Great Wall and Great Lighthouse from Baekje, the wonder KING!

Right after getting the lighthouse, I sent a junk north and found Shimazu, revealing the orange and yellow borders that my second junk aimed for. Second junk survived one turn on the ocean and found the Mori, and a series of trades ensued that got me all the contacts, gold, and maps from them. They were ALL behind in tech so I gift ALL the ancient age techs bringing them to middle ages in 190BC. Next turn they are all Republics, indicating they are all religious? Gift them all Feudal Warlords and Engineering. I am going to follow the top tree and hope for help on the bottom.

My war with Baekje ends with them giving me their barb isle city, leaving them a single city in Han's territory. Next turn Gogury attacks me, and after a trade with Han to get Invention, Han attacks me too. After getting some Gogury cities I make peace and ally them against Han. I also ally Baekje against Han. I get a couple Gogury cities through Han. I get Astronomy during this time, switching to Copernicus in Seoul. Banking comes in 170AD.

Han has settled on the barb isle now, make peace with him for that city, breaking my MAs with Baekje and Gogury. Hopefully that won't come back to haunt me. Trade Education for furs from Han, and then Banking and dyes for Gunpowder from Han (210AD).

I've been selling/gifting tech to the other civs as I go along, trying to keep them with us on the off chance they might contribute something to the tech pace.

I get Navigation in 260AD, and find nothing to trade for from the other civs. :cry: Start Economics, to allow me to build Smiths, hoping SOMEONE will get Chemistry for me.

280AD Peace Treaty with Baekje is done, so attack and take back Mokpo. This makes Han Polite since he was still fighting them.

In 310AD I finish Economics, and Copernicus, kicking off my Golden Age. Still no Chemistry so I have to start it myself. Start Smith's in Seoul. Sell Education around.

I've started ramping up worker output (only around 30 workers right now) to prepare for Steam Power.

Han went for Astronomy instead of Chemistry, looks like I'm on my own. He has a junk about to head north to Shimazu, so I sell him contact just before he gets it.

I discover Chemistry in 350AD, Physics in 390AD, Gravity in 430AD, Magnetism in 470AD, and finally some help when I get Metallurgy from Tokugawa in 480AD to enter Industrial Ages.

I sold/gifted Physics when I got it hoping for help with Metallurgy, getting it one turn after I started it.

I also finished Smith's in 460AD, decreasing my maint cost. Han has the Gogury down to one city by this time and it's looking like they'll be toast in a couple turns.

to be continued...

Mac 1.29

This is my second post at civfanatics and my first GOTM.

Following there's just a summary of my MA. So soon I have to get back to my Mac, or I won't finish this GOTM by the 31st of Oct!!! :mutant:

My MA was very boring: after kicked out of main continent the stinky pinkies, I stopped making war, 'cause by that time [200-300 AD] Han was too great and powerful [and I mean T:o :o :o ].
Also, if I'd go to war with Gogu [a small olive spot between me and Han] I should make an alliance with Han [obviously before Gogu make it with Han], having just the result to expand Han's boundaries to the north faster than mine to the south.... :confused:
... And if I'd go to war with Han, I should make an alliance with Gogu, that was asking me more than I can stand... :confused: :confused: :confused:

HAN DAMNED!!! :nospam: [that pink smile with narrow eyes should be cyan]

So I went for diplomatic and economical games, my rep is fairly good all over the world... but alas! No way to use wonderful
korean cannons... and also I lost shakespeare theatre by one turn :mad:
Now I'm second in pop and in a lot more of statistics, with decent land mass and great city development... but a bit back in techs: I have high hopes to be a candidate in Un' secretary elections, but I need a leader to rush it, and without a single war it will be very difficult to get one.


Well, anyway a great map, wonderful new units and a well-planned map: fanatic center got great staff!

One more question: I noticed that in my game [and not in yours] Baejkle got a lot of territory oversea - they were the first to travel around, and got Lighthouse far before I took it over for me. That is why they could survive.

[Sorry, no screenshot 'cause I'm not in my house]

Hello!!

I finished this segment over 2 weeks ago but have not had a chance to post. The primary activity was the destruction of both the Baekje and the Goguryo. These were both destroyed with knights and MI equivs. It took a long time, but they went out fairly easily. I got one leader which I used to rush Sun Tzu's. a few turns later my FP finished. I built it in a city on the river in the valley north of the Goguryo. after that I just peacfully built, netting both J.S. Bach's and Adam Smith's. I got into the Industrial age at about 900 BC.

Predator level, v1.29.

I fear I won't be able to finish in time, so just a quick round-up of my middle ages. In 150 bc I entered the MA, exited in 690 ad, so research was pretty slow. I had a cery lucky suicide junk, but because of bad route planning, it never reached land. I finally found Japan in 150 bc :(

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/150bc-suicide-junk.gif

I was at war most of the time, building horsemen and then upgrading them. This meant I was short fo cash all the time, and had to keep research at zero.

I had little luck with wonders. No leaders, and all good wonders were built on Japan (Pyramids, Sun Tzu, Leo's etc).

In 460 ad I had completed the warfare on my own island. I decide to leave the Han alone, since they were such great trading partners, paying ridiculous amounts for Iron.

Shortly after that I declared war on Takeda, to get a foothold on Japan. They were stronger than expected, however, forcing me to make peace after getting only 1 city. I did get a leader, however, which I used to build an army because of lack of other good choices.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/520-ad-first-leader.jpg

More in the next spoiler...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27

Link to spoiler1, Ancient Times (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1301965#post1301965)

I'd already met most of the remote Civs in Ancient Times. My first suicide junk sailed west from the barbarian island, on just about the longest possible route to cross the ocean as things turned out. But nonetheless it made it! :) This was one lucky junk! I met six of the Japanese clans. (It was not until 410BC that anyone made contact with the Shimazu.) I traded for Shamanism and Mathematics.

I became a Republic in 650BC after a six turn revolution and remained a Republic from that time onward.

I continued slowly with warfare. I didn't build a lot of units, instead focusing mostly on infrastructure. In 490BC I finished off Goguryeo, in 190BC finished off Bakeje, and then slowly worked my way through Han Dynasty. In 150AD while fighting the Han I got a leader. By that time I'd finished a Forbidden Palace a bit east of our start position and it was time to move the Palace. The leader rushed a new Palace in Beijing, near the center of the Han lands. When I learned Metallurgy in 210AD I was still fighting Han Dynasty and my world looked like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/sirpleb24-2a.jpg

In 550BC I'd traded for Construction and entered the Middle Ages. My free tech was Monotheism. From that time onward I tried to guide the AIs' research as much as possible. I gifted techs to the Japanese clans to get them doing useful research. Sometimes I took some gpt from them, but I was careful to always leave some with maximum research capacity.

I expected the Japanese clans would start the Middle Ages by researching Feudal Warlords, after whatever current project each was working on. So I started by learning Engineering and then gifted it to them. I figured this would get them to research Invention and Gunpowder after they learned Feudal Warlords. In the meantime I'd research the top part of the tech tree.

That plan didn't quite work. By the time I'd learned Engineering, Son Buddhism, Education, and Banking, the Japanese clans had just finished Invention. They'd detoured to pick up Samurai Code first :( I guess that it was a high priority because most (or all?) of the Japanese clans had a UU based on Samurai Code, and the UU rated highly as both an offensive and a defensive unit. Anyway, I changed plans. I gifted my techs to the stronger Japanese clans (by now I'd selected some of them as my ongoing research helpers) and I researched Gunpowder.

Gunpowder was the first tech I learned in four turns and I was able to maintain that speed afterward.

When I learned Gunpowder I gifted it to my helpers. Presumably most had also been researching it. I expected most would go for Astronomy next and perhaps some were already working on it. I researched Chemistry and then Metallurgy. One turn before I learned Metallurgy one of my rivals knew Astronomy. In 210AD I learned Metallurgy, traded for Astronomy, and that ends my notes in this spoiler :)

I am new to the GOTM and decided to give this one a go as I used to live in Korea and thought that they deserved a little better out of their lot. Unfortunately they got me as their leader and I'd never won above Regent before.

I did however hold a pretty strong position as we came into the Middle Ages having mapped the entire starting landmass.

My question is this: I managed to stumble across the second landmass by sailing due east with a suicide galley from the barbarian island (!). These sailors must have been something else as they lasted a full four or five turns in the open ocean to get there. Would it be breaking the Spoiler rules to post this map since, although it was the map I held at the end of the age, it could give away too much information to others. Obviously, the fact that I've posted this twenty days after most people have finished is by the way, I'm just enquiring so as not to fall foul in the future.

Balastulin,

This thread would be a great place to post an image of your first glimpse of the full world as it appeared to you in Gotm24-Korea.

Remember that you also have to have already earned the righst to see saltpeter in your personal game and potentially build Hwach'a and/or cannons before you can technically be here in the discussion.

Hope you have had an enjoyable game so far and welcome to CFC and the GOTM games.

No worries Cracker,

After being at the top of the technology tree when I was thrust into the Middle Ages (courtesy of trading Monotheism like a commercially zealous Korean shopowner with all and sundry). However, somehow, I was languishing with education when everybody else was going industrial (note to self: need to reconsider Middle Age emperor tactics). As a result, by the time I got the Saltpeter and the Hwacha's, I embarked on an ill advised invasion of Baekjeland resulting in my total anihilation at the hands of Han, Baekje AND G's (note to self: reduce pride levels.) Sorry Korea, it's all just a little bit of History Repeating.

Well Balastulin,

you may have the exciting and dubious honor of describing the experience that many other players will have missed since you may be able to describe the excitement of what it feels like to be shot at with an Hwach'a amongst the other indignities that may have occured.

In a Taoist view of your situation,:

"It is more strenuous to trim the moustache of a giant if it has been allowed to grow long and become entangled with his beard and the fringe on his jacket."