Here is my wonderful starting position at 4000BC::lol:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_4000bc.jpg

As you can see, there is no absolutely no cow, wheat, fish, or luxury near by. I would normally reject this map immediately, but out of boredom and curiosity, I decide to check with Mapstat for the domination limit. Guess what? It has a huge domination limit of 3999 tiles!:eek: So I decide to play a few turns to see what happen next.

Eventually, I saw a cow 3 tiles to the left and built my settler factory there. There is also just one deer in the forest in the north and one single wheat near the jungle in the south. And jungles surrounding most of the land.:( Here is a snapshot of that:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_2550bc.jpg

And here is my forgotten civilization at 975 BC with just 1 settler in transit (I forgot to save the game at 1000BC):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_975bc.jpg

I went on and made contact and traded communication link with 7 other civs on my continent shortly after that. Because my little empire was at the crossroad right in the middle of the map, I was able to hide Babylon and Arabia from the rest of the known world (Germany, Russia, Persia, Zululand, and Spain) until Chivary.:) Out of pure luck, Babylon and Arabia took on a different research path from Persia and Rusia which gave me many great oportunity for trading. I made a lot of money from trading tech and map between the West and East and was leading in tech at the end of the ancient age.

Sadly, my good time didn't last long. Around 690BC, Catherine of Russia demanded Babylon's contact. Of course, I refused (anything else but my contact) and she declared war. Since I was leading everyone in the West by 1 tech (my 40 turn research with 1 scientist pay off), I decided to give away Polytheism to Zululand, Spain, Persia, and Germany to form an alliance against Russia.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_670bc_1.jpg

Another bad news by the next turn, Hammurabi of Babylon demanded for my contact with Persia. Once again, I refused (anything but my contact) and he declared war. Meanwhile Babylon and Arabia had been at war since forever; therefore, most of his troops were tied up along Arabia's border. Here is a map of my chaotic world at 670BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_670bc_2.jpg

Of course, Hammurabi didn't really want to let me off the hook and he decided to send a stack to 1 bowman and 2 swordmans against my nothern town of Konya. I immediately pop-rush a spear there and diverse all my force (another spear, 2 warriors and a wounded horseman) to defend that town at all cost. A snapshot of my defense against Hammurabi (not much, but it held off the Babylonian forever; btw, Konya was built on top of a hill):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_670bc_3.jpg

Every few turns, Hammurabi continued to send a few bowmans and swordmans to die at the foot hill of my town. My elite spearmans had won many great battle defending Konya but not a single leader come by.:(

20 turns later, I made peace with everyone and lead my Republic Ottoman into AD. Here is the status of my world at 10 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_10ad_1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_10ad_2.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_10ad_3.jpg

Not much progress, but thing will about to change. So far, I had control of 5 luxuries. Hopefully, I will aquire the sixth one from Babylon real soon (their source of spices are right next to my border and I have a couple dozens of knights ready to launch (btw, other than Persia and Russia, no one else know the secret of Chivary). I also hope for a great leader to move my palace to a far away land (not sure about its destination yet, but I'm hopping it will be somewhere North of Babylon or South of Persia). Btw, at this time, Persia has the Pyramid, Sun Tzu, and Cleo's Workshop....so I guess they will be a wonderful target once I get Military Tradition.

You aren't kidding about the jungle! What were your original map settings? I came across this in my last emperor game - and wonder if temperate climate wouldn't be better than warm for less jungle.

Wow Moonsinger, I envy your map size of 3999 but not your start position :lol:

An interesting combination. High long term potential but a big challenge getting up to domination quickly. Sounds like Persia will be key. Good luck! :)

Originally posted by zerksees
What were your original map settings?

My map setting was wet, warm, 5 billion years old for maxinum potential score. As SirPleb just mention, this kind of map has a high long term potential if we can survive long enough. However, the down side of it is that we can't get up to the domination limmit quickly (still 250 titles more than the average may give a big score boot during the milking stage).

Personally, I prefer warm climate over temperate. Once the jungles are clear up, there will become prime estate.:) With the temperate climate, there will be more rocks and ice which aren't good for my daily cows.

Well, I was out of town during the last two weeks and haven't played any Civ at all.:( A few day ago, my Ottoman reached the age of Sipahi. Here I was comtemplating the universe and trying to defending my Eastern border from hostile Babylonians and my Western border from the evil Persians. Suddenly out of nowhere, The Zulus discovered Military Tradition.:) Here is a screenshot of that:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_560ad.jpg

From this point forward, my days of kissing the AIs' feet and begging them for mercy were over. :)

A little bit about the history of my civ before the age of Sipahi....First palace jump at 480 AD to a remote location:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_palace1.jpg

Second palace jump at 730 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_palace2.jpg

And the current status of my empire at 800 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_800ad.jpg

The red dot on the left indicates the location of my first palace jump and the red dot on the bottom east is the location of my second palace jump. So far, the biggiest mistake I made was trying to search for Sanitation. Silly me, instead of stocking up 28000 gold in my treasury, I could have reached Replaceable Part by now (which would give me Infrantry and power boost for my workers. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

Edit: I almost forgot. Immediately after learning the secret of Military Tradition, I broke the deadlock with Persia and sent 100 Sipahis directly at the heart of their empire. I razed the Megan, Coperinius and everything else except for their capital and 1 other city which housed the Pyramid, Sun Tzu, and Cleo's Workshop. I'm currently connecting iron at the beginning of the turn to build the railroad and disconnecting iron at the end of the turn so that I can build horseman for Sipahi upgrade. Hopefully, I will reach the domination limit before 1200 AD.:)

Wow Moonsinger. Great recovery after that tough start. It will be interesting to see where you end up with that great domination limit.

Well, my game is running at the crawling speed now (my P4-2.8 overlocked at 3.4 GHz is very fast, but it's really me that can't click the mouse fast enough).:( The year is 950 AD and the minimum time is around 3 hours per turn. I ran a 5 hours marathon last night and advanced just only 2 turns. Currently I'm manually directing over 500 hundred workers and around 250 offensive units in every turn. Current score around 6000 and gaining 181 points per turn. Just about 800 more tiles to domination.

......BUT Moonsinger:

How do you manage to play so many hours per day AND keep your husband happy, if that's not tooo personal a question?! :lol:

@Eman, I don't really have time to play that much. Usually I do it when he's not home.;)

Now, this trade deal is a little weird: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_gold_wo_city.jpg

Spain was completely wiped out like 5 turns ago, except for a settler in a galley somewhere. Basically, she has no city but she is making a lot of gold per turn. So finally, I decide to sell her Replaceable Part and Corporation for 265 gpt and all her gold. Since both Zululand and Rusia already had these techs, if I don't sell to her, they will. Anyway, I'm just curious on where her money coming from. Since she is currently backward in tech and has no city -> no territory -> no resource or luxury for trading, where on earth would she comes up with 265 gpt.

Interesting trade....

Originally posted by Moonsinger
[BSpain was completely wiped out like 5 turns ago, except for a settler in a galley somewhere. Basically, she has no city but she is making a lot of gold per turn. So finally, I decide to sell her Replaceable Part and Corporation for 265 gpt and all her gold. Since both Zululand and Rusia already had these techs, if I don't sell to her, they will. Anyway, I'm just curious on where her money coming from. Since she is currently backward in tech and has no city -> no territory -> no resource or luxury for trading, where on earth would she comes up with 265 gpt. [/B]

Was Spain wiped out by you? Was it a quick war? Maybe she had sold some techs or mpp to other civs before her downfall and has some residual income?

Hi,

excuse my ignorance, but, what is the purpose of those palace jumps to those rare locations??

Thx

@Civilizator: Decrease of corruption due to a bug/exploit...
You can check SirPlebs deity attempt thread (in this forum) for loads of details on this.

Thx, I already found it myself, I tried to delete my post but the system didn´t let me do it.

Does this exploit still work in conquests?

Thx

Originally posted by zerksees
Was Spain wiped out by you? Was it a quick war? Maybe she had sold some techs or mpp to other civs before her downfall and has some residual income?

May be that was the case because she still can aford to pay me 265 gpt now (5 turns after she signed the deal). Since then, 3 major cities had flipped back to her.:( Also, my reputation is totally ruined by Persia; I had MPP with Rusia and they attacked Rusia with an archer or something. I guess I don't have to protect my rep no more; will plant spy to locate those lone hiden settlers and will terminate Spain and Persia for good this time.


@Civilizator, you can read more about the reason for Palace Jump to those rare location in this article. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62851&pagenumber=1)

Originally posted by Civilizator
Does this exploit still work in conquests?
No. The Palace rank exploit and Ring City Placement were both negated. In addition to that, general corruption increased!.

Originally posted by superslug
No. The Palace rank exploit and Ring City Placement were both negated. In addition to that, general corruption increased!.

Oh well, I think I will stay with PTW and vanila Civ3 for the HoF games.

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Oh well, I think I will stay with PTW and vanila Civ3 for the HoF games.

Maybe, but I'm actually quite curious as to what the agricultural trait can do for a high scoring game... Extra food in the early game could be quite a difference maker.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Well, my game is running at the crawling speed now (my P4-2.8 overlocked at 3.4 GHz is very fast, but it's really me that can't click the mouse fast enough).:( The year is 950 AD and the minimum time is around 3 hours per turn. I ran a 5 hours marathon last night and advanced just only 2 turns. Currently I'm manually directing over 500 hundred workers and around 250 offensive units in every turn. Current score around 6000 and gaining 181 points per turn. Just about 800 more tiles to domination.

-I was planning to enter a game with a huge map , like the one Moonsinger and SirPleb played , but i just now realised that that's impossible for my pc ( P2 333 MHz...its already rather slow with a standard map and 4 opponents! )
-I was just wondering if Moonsinger and SirPleb , or anybody else who played with a huge map , is directing as Moonsinger for example 500 hundred workers or any other unit one by one!!.....is that true? and if yes isnt any way to direct all units with one movement?...like Age of Empires lets say...
-sorry for my english ...

Yep, that's true. I never automate my workers until every tile in m teritory is improved and I only need to clean polution. In my current monarch level game the date is 10 AD and I already have 110 workers. So I'll probably end up with 600 or so. :eek: All manually controlled.

And no, there's no magic button. Only automation, but that's really crappy...

Originally posted by Veteran
and if yes isnt any way to direct all units with one movement?...like Age of Empires lets say...

Well, you can move them in one big stack from one corner of the world to another, but eventually, you have to direct them one if you want them to work right; otherwise, set your worker on automation then forget (of course, you may not like such result).

Game Update: Here is another unusual trade treaty with Zululand. Once again, they survive with a settler in a galley somewhere. I have been trying to plant a spy during the last 15 turns but failed miserably everytime; therefore, I have no idea how many settler and how many galley they have left. One thing I know for sure is that they have no city, but they still continue to give me 191 gold per turn. Since the rest of the civ (except for the Chinese which was extremely poor) were reduced to 1 city each, the total income of all surviving AIs would hardly be over 100 gold per turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_gold_wo_city2.jpg

PS: I'm currently searching for new teach in every 4 turns while still making about 1700 gpt. Because I have been constantly at war during the last 40 turns, my scientific civilization has just a few dozens of library for culture expansion. So far, I have not build any university and don't really see the need for it. Ever since the dawn of civilization, my Ottoman Empire has built only 1 temple, 1 courthouse, and a lot of markets and banks. Right around 1000 AD, I have over 800 workers (400 regulars and over 400 slaves) under my command in every turn (I manually control all my units). I'm so glad that most of my workers are currently sleeping. Since my world transformation was mostly completed, there aren't much left to do. Current score is around 9000 points and gaining 221 points per turn. Just about 315 more turns to go.....

221 points per turn??? It is not a mistake??? If not:
9000 + 315*221 = 78615.

The score per turn will definitely level off IgrOK.

I just checked it with SirPleb's score calculator and it told me that my final score will be 38537. I still have 311 turns left to go. Hopefully, I will break 40K.:)

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I just checked it with SirPleb's score calculator and it told me that my final score will be 38537. I still have 311 turns left to go. Hopefully, I will break 40K.:)
But what is wrong in my formula?

Originally posted by IgrOK

But what is wrong in my formula?

Your calculation does not account for the fact that the increase in score per turn will slowly go down and the overall score will level off. IIRC SirPleb's utility does take that into account.

Originally posted by IgrOK
But what is wrong in my formula?

Just like Darkness said, after all your cities reaching the max population, the score per turn will start decreasing. Anyway, I think I will break 50K in this game. SirPleb's calculator is a good baseline because I know that will be least that I will get. I usually ended up with about 20% higher than his prediction. Therefore, I think I really have a good chance for the second slot on the HoF with this game. I can't wait to play again next weekend - just 311 turns to go.:)

But what is wrong in my formula?

I will try to explain...

Moonsinger said that in 1000AD she had around 9000 points and her's score was growing 221 points per turn, so:

*990AD = 8779 points (1) = turn 214 (2) = Total score = 1878706 (1*2)
1000AD = 9000 points (1) = turn 215 (2) = Total score = 1935000 (1*2)

The Internal per turn score is 56294 (this number is the sum of (territory + specialist and content citizens + happy citizens * 2) * difficulty). It's the total score in 1000AD - total score in 990AD.

Now, if Moonsinger keep this internal per turn score from 1000AD to 2050AD, we have:

56294 * 325 (turns to go) = 18295550

This, plus the score she already had gave us:

18295550 + 1935000 = 20230550

2050 is turn 540, so:

20230550 / 540 = 37464 (projected score)


* I used the numbers that Moonsinger wrote in her post, and of course, her population is still growing in the game, so the final score will be higher.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I have been trying to plant a spy during the last 15 turns but failed miserably everytime;

Is it not true that after you fail you have to wait 6 or 7 turns before you try again, or it will always fail? I thought I read this somewhere on this web site.

Are the other stragglers (Persia and Spain) gone yet?

Originally posted by zerksees
Is it not true that after you fail you have to wait 6 or 7 turns before you try again, or it will always fail? I thought I read this somewhere on this web site.

I don't think that is the case because I was successful in planting a spy in at least one other AI civ after failing it during the previous turn.

Are the other stragglers (Persia and Spain) gone yet?
Yes, they are completely destroyed. At least 4 of my cities flipped back to Spain after that; it took me awhile to locate their last settler and they were terminated for good.

i thought a city couldn't flip to a civilisation without a palace?

Originally posted by wohmongarinf00l
i thought a city couldn't flip to a civilisation without a palace?

Well, it's a fact that they flip like crazy back to their former civilization even when their homeland doesn't have a palace.

Btw: I played 4 more turns last night. I'm up to 1150 AD now and gainning 231 points per turn. Since about half of my cities in prime grassland are still at size 8 or below, I'm expecting to maintain the 231 points per turn for about another 50 turns which would take me to around 25K before my point per turn starting to go down hill.

I'm up to 1365 AD now.:) According to SirPleb's calculator, it said that I will end up with 478xxx points (about 10K higher than the last prediction); therefore, I think that will be the mininum that I'm going to get. The score is increasing at a stable rate of 221 points per turn at the moment.

So far, I have completed the Longvity and Cure for Cancer. Currently, I'm doing research with 1 scientist and spend all my 9000 gpt on rushing a lot markets and hospitals in every turn. In 33 more turns, my palace will expand to ring 3. I have no choice but to let it waste another 5 tundra tiles because it's impossible for me to move it any where now.

Sounds like it is going really well Moonsinger! If you have enough population growth and happiness left to be gained, the projected score could keep going up for a while. Past 50K? And how far after that? We'll know soon I guess, good luck! :)

I think you are right, SirPleb!:) I think I'm going pass 54K with this one.:) Currently, I'm making over 13K gpt (since another 50 stock exchange centers will be coming on line within the next 40 turns, the final gold per turn may be well over 14K).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_1750ad_1.jpg

Here is a snapshot of my little empire currently in 1750AD (the ruin a few space North of the Russian capital used to be the capital of Germany; because they were a big threat to Russia, I had no choice but to terminate them):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_1750ad_2.jpg

And the histograph graph:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_1750ad_3.jpg

During 1750AD, SirPleb score calulator predicted that the final score will be over 54K. I can't wait until next weekend to see the actual result. Overall, I think the higher domination limit does make a lot of different even when the starting location was very poor.

Wow, that's awesome Moonsinger! That should hold the high spot for a while! :)

Hey, doesn't the map look like a huge M! :)

Thanks, SirPleb!:) This is it! Unless I happened to encounter another huge map with the domination limit of at least 3900 and a good starting position, I won't be doing any more milk run for awhile. I was checking out the Inca Civilization in Conquest last night. Being farming and industrious, they seem like a best choice for milking. May be I will take them out for a test drive sometimes.:)

@Drazek: Yes, it's a huge random map generated by PTW version 1.21f with the domination limit of 3999 which 3998 tiles are in used.

......for a probable NUMBER 1 spot on Deity! :goodjob: :goodjob:

You have certainly made a case for starting a Milk Run with the highest Dom Limit, regardless of starting position.........of course your EXPERT play is also required! :)

You're a World Class Dairy Farmer! :king:

EMan.
P.s. You mentioned in the last post that you were using PTW 1.21.........is there any advantage over 1.27? :confused:

P.p.s. Did you use a keyboard macro to save time when generating starting position maps?

Originally posted by EMan
You're a World Class Dairy Farmer! :king:

Thank you, EMan!:) You are very kind, but I just got lucky with the map size.

P.s. You mentioned in the last post that you were using PTW 1.21.........is there any advantage over 1.27? :confused:

Why 1.21? Because I haven't had a chance to upgrade it yet. Plus, I still have a couple of other pending games on 1.21; therefore, I don't think I will upgrade to 1.27 anytime soon. Other than that, I'm not aware of any advantage over 1.27.

P.p.s. Did you use a keyboard macro to save time when generating starting position maps?

Keyboard macro?:confused: I didn't know anything about Keyboard macro.:(

............Before the monopolization of Windows as an operating system there was a "windowed" OS called Desqview that ran under DOS.

Desqview allowed you to record a keystroke macro........so for one game I was playing, Train Dispatcher if I recall, I would record about 20 opening moves in the macro and then just press one key for the macro to execute!

It would be nice to have something like that for restarting Civ games?! :)

P.s. You may have got lucky with the map size BUT you still had to play a BRILLIANT game to get 54k+!!! :)

Originally posted by EMan
P.s. You may have got lucky with the map size BUT you still had to play a BRILLIANT game to get 54k+!!! :)

The secret is really in the Sipahi and the Palace Ranking exploit (you can read more about that in SirPleb's spoiler thread; since he already documented it well, there is no need for me to repeat it here)

Moonsinger, your humility is as impressive as your skill...

Originally posted by superslug
Moonsinger, your humility is as impressive as your skill...

I cherish your kind words (big hug and thank)!:) I have learned a long time ago that life is full of ups and downs. One day, I may be on top of the world (with a lot of money and power) and the next day, I may end up at the bottom of an endless pit. Actually, I had been in both places. Therefore, eventually I learned the dance which we call "life" and move the best I can to its music. I rarely feel joy when I'm on top nor feel no sorrow when I'm at the bottom. So why have I been continuing on with the fight? I'm not sure about the answer but subconsciously I think there is a tiny bit of possibility that I might be wrong and I shall find my true purpose in life someday. So I went on to finish high school with honor, met the President of the United States, then college and beyond. I have achieved success beyond my wildest dream, but no matter what I do, the emptiness has always been there and I just can't shake it off. Anyway, I play Civ mostly to release stress and to forget about this hopeless world in which I was born into. I had come into this world from a stage of nonexistence, and I shall return to the stage of nonexistence someday. Since today could be my last day on earth, I cherish it as usual; it's just one more problem for me to solve, one more battle to win, one more world to conquer; there isn't anything new there. However, onething I know for sure is that I shall never give up, I shall never surrender, and I will fight until my last breath to achieve the final victory - the return to a stage of nonexistence - a hollow victory - the end.

___

Game Update: I did play a little bit last night and got to 2000AD. The current score is over 50K. I'm making over 16K gpt and has over two millions gold in treasury.:)

.......(viz. "true purpose in life"), educating (us), entertaining, testing, pushing the limits with CIV is a pretty good way to pass the time.

My thinking is that many, many people read these threads and appreciate YOUR contributions to the World Of Civ! :goodjob:

Thanks for the "Words From The Heart"........that's a pretty courageous thing to do..........especially in a Public Forum!

I can't find a "Saluting Smiley" icon, so this will have to do for you MS............ :queen: :queen: :queen:

Wow – that’s deep. I was just expecting a game update.

I think I can give you something else to think about regarding this question:

Originally posted by Moonsinger
So why have I been continuing on with the fight?
We humans, and indeed all forms of life, have been programmed to survive. It is innate in our nature. Species that do not fight to survive perish. Individuals in a species that do not choose to survive also perish and that tendency is not propagated to the next generation. Because of this those who choose not to push on are in the minority. You can’t help it. To me, continuing the fight is almost as involuntary as breathing.

Sorry if I am off topic, stating the obvious or missing your point.

I try to cherish the small things because the world problems are overwhelming.

On topic: Thanks for sharing your game experience with all of us!

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I cherish your kind words (big hug and thank)!:) I have learned a long time ago that life is full of ups and downs...
Holy crap, I pay you a genuine compliment and in return I get a philosophical dissertation regarding the nature of your universe. :eek:
I've got to say nice things to you more often! :lol: :rotfl:
Okay, seriously, I understand to a large degree where you're coming from. You've no doubt noted an always present sense of humor in my posts. The act of laughter (both for myself and others) is only the surface benefit. I adhere to my sense of humor to emotionally distance myself from all that may hurt.
Originally posted by Moonsinger
I'm not sure about the answer but subconsciously I think there is a tiny bit of possibility that I might be wrong and I shall find my true purpose in life someday.

For me, the current purpose is survival. I know this sounds like a generic textbook evolutionary-school-of-thought answer, but my reasoning is not purely that. I firmly believe that in a number of decades, medical and/or technological secrets will be unlocked that will allow us to live for multiple centuries. The key for me then, is to survive long enough to see this day, that I may live longer.

Once I have access to that kind of time, I'll then be able to decide whether or not to pursue selfish goals of enjoying my own life, or a selfless agenda of service to others. Likely, I'd have time for both.
Originally posted by Moonsinger
Game Update: I did play a little bit last night and got to 2000AD. The current score is over 50K. I'm making over 16K gpt and has over two millions gold in treasury.

Raising the bar will only stiffen my resolve to continue improving as a player.:mad: :goodjob:

All done!:) The final score is .....(54K):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_2050ad_1.jpg

And I ended up with over 3.5 million gold in my bank (wish it was real money).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ms_deity_2050ad_2.jpg

Good night!:)

PS: Sorry, but I have to get some sleep now.:crazyeye:

Congratulations, Moonsinger. I hope you're sleeping well.

......A well-deserved new #1 Deity spot. :goodjob: :goodjob:

SirPleb, your move!? ;)

Originally posted by EMan
SirPleb, your move!?
Originally posted by SirPleb
Wow, that's awesome Moonsinger! That should hold the high spot for a while! :)

Congratulations Moonsinger :goodjob:

This thread and Bremps' emperor thread have made me re-think my map strategy.
After my monarch game I think I'll try a huge archipelago and I'll just keep generating maps untill I get an insanely high domination limit. :D

Yeah, Well done!!:cool: