Hi all,

well OFW1 has been a successful campaign(even though we had to play most of the game with just 3 players(Myself, mad-bax and Northern Pike)). we are very close to winning a 20K victory on Monarch level, and it has been fun!

For OFW2 I have even more fun, and possibly a great challenge!!

We will be playing as the Romans(militaristic and Commercial)

The game will be on PTW 1.27(even though I think the last patch works with this one)

Here are the basic rules.

1. We are Militaristic, We will conquer the world, our goal is conquest. (We believe that there is nothing greater anywhere than our people and our Roman Empire!!)

2. We are not religious and therefore we do not build Temples, Cathederals or any other Religious Icon or any religious great wonders.
Also, We do not tolerate religious civs!! If we meet a religious civ we are to declare war on them immediately(NO TRADING WITH THEM) and stay at war with them until they are gone.
we can form alliances against them with non religious civs.

The Religious civs are as follow. Arabs, Aztecs, Babylon, Celts, Egyptians, India, Iroquois, Japanese and Spain. these civs are to be declared upon immediately if we meet them.

3. We are the Capitol killers! This means (and probably the most difficult part of this game) that when we go to war with a civ, we can only attack there capitol city until we destroy it. We must only attack capitol cities and raze them(we will keep no cities, only build our own) after the 1st capitol city is gone find where it moved and attack that.

4. You only have to stay at war with religious civs, you can deal with the non religious civs in any way you like, but all wars must stay as Capitol Killers.

I hope you will join me in my quest!!

here are the specs.

world size-standard
Barbarians-roaming
Land size-Pangea/%60 water
Climate-wet
Temperature-Warm
Age-4 billion
Civ- The Romans
Rivals-7random civs(lets hope that they are not all religious)
Culturally linked start position
Cultural conversions allowed.
The game is on Emporere level(however if you like I can change it to Monarch and put a different start position)

I took the 1st start position I got and here it is.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2start_pic.JPG

and here is the

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_4000_BC.SAV)

I would really like to have 5 or 6 people in this game(4 would be ok)
24 hours to say gotit and 72 hours to post. if you cannot make this time then say skip me please!

The roster and order is as follows. Turns as of (Nov 6)

OneFastWarrior
conehead234
TedJackson
Generalissimo(MIA)
Puppeteer (MIA)
The roster has been changed with many new peolpe added as of January 13th, 2004. it will be posted in the game thread.

I think this will be fun and challenging, some discussion about how to approach the game before we start would be welcome!

I would perfer the difficulty on monarch but i will join if it is emperor also. I am normally a monarch player.

I'm thinking about trying this as my first SG, but I haven't got PTW installed yet (bought it Friday) and have some RL issues coming up soon. Maybe.

Looks like a Barrel'O'Fun :)

I'd like to join. Emperor is fine with me, as is PTW 1.27.


Ted

This sounds like fun. Could I get in on the action?

Arrgh!! Curse you people with PTW!!!


*Ok I'm just jealous. Just wait until Conquests when I'm on par with everyone else!!;)

Not long to wait now Ghenghis :)


Ted

Are there vacancies left ?

very cool, I believe we have a team. 4 for sures and and a maybe.

@conehead234 I have normally been playing Monarch myself, but I find that I pay more attention to what I am doing in SG's more so than my solo games. Glad to have ya!

@Puppeteer you said thinking about and maybe, so, If ya want in let us know and if everyone is cool with 6 people in the rotation, then we'll let ya in.

@ TedJackson Glad to have ya aboard!

@Generalissimo You are more than welcome.

@Ieha If you are saying that you want in, you got it!!

so the roster at this point would be
OneFastWarrior
Conehead234
TedJackson
Generalissimo
Ieha(If you are interested)

Puppeteer(alternate or possible 6th in the rotation)

If everyone is cool with this let me know. I normally play below this level and not known for very good starts, so if someone else wants to take 1st in the rotation, speak up!
Otherwise, we will go with the rotation as stated above.


Now, how about some discussion on the game?

I gotta go work now, so I will be back in a few hours.

Me be interested .
Call me Leha :) :goodjob:

Edit : frankly , I started playing emperor not so long ago and have only 2 victories by now , and this variant is 1/2 AW , so it will be a challenge .
Start is not great , but this is good , cause I'm kinda tired of all those rivers and cows ;)

Edit edit : this part about hunting capitols makes me happy , how did you get to this , it's just GREAT !

Just to confirm that I'm in.

I think that a general AW approach is probably our best bet - Defensive builder mode, Iron left unconnected until we've managed to accumulate a sizeable Warrior force, connect the Iron, upgrade and raze our first enemy capital :)


Ted

I have updated the 1st post to say the lineup, but here is what it is

The roster is as follows and the order is not necessarily set yet


OneFastWarrior(confirmed,of course)
conehead234(need confirmation)
TedJackson(confirmed)
Generalissimo(need conformation)
leha(confirmed)
Puppeteer(need confirmation and if you still want in or can play)

I kinda agree that an AW approach would be good. this also means limited exploration, however remeber that we can make alliances with the non-religious civs. All the civs are random so I don't even know if there are religious civs in the game (the odds are that there will be) we could look at the F10 key to see who the other civs are, but that takes away the surprise of who we meet (something that I think should not be available in the game, a bug if you will).

So, if we approach it as an AW, then we would want to be limited on our exploring. If we do goto war when/if we get iron and get it connected and upgrade, then we might get an early GA, I was thinking that we might want to get a new form of government before we use our UU. Until then we may want to use Warriors, Archers and Horsemen to war with early.

just some of my thoughts.

Also, I was wondering what everyone thinks of settling our 1st town. I was thinking of moving 1 SW or 1 NE.

Okay, I'm in. Just realize I'm not likely to be the best player on the team, but hopefully I can hold my own. I look forward to learning a lot. I've learned quite a bit by lurking so far. I have visitors coming this weekend, so I should be near the end of the rotation, please.

Got PTW 1.27f installed and working last night and naturally stayed up most of the night playing. I have two installs so I can play either PTW 1.27f or CivIII 1.29f. My only mod for PTW is the smiley icons for the pop heads. (Vanilla has smiley pop heads and GOTM 24 addons, but that doesn't apply to this SG.)

Starting location: I almost always plop down on my starting tile. At first glance that looks like fresh water to me; if it is will we still need no aqueduct if we move SW or NE? Assuming the worker will go either to the wheat or plains first, we can move him first to see if there's any BG on the other side of the plains.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
Also, I was wondering what everyone thinks of settling our 1st town. I was thinking of moving 1 SW or 1 NE.
OFW, if you don't mind, I'd like to give you my comments on your opening plan. (If do you mind, scroll past my post and ignore me.;) )

On what are you basing your desire to move? Remember that a settler walking is a city not producing for a turn. If you move the settler it should be for a good reason. Just based on the initial screen shot you would gain nothing by moving.

Keeping it where you are you get an irrigatable wheat (assuming the water is actually a lake) in your first radius which means you start fast growth at turn 5 (move worker, irrigate first). You also have a BG in your initial radius which means your second citizen (now at turn 8 instead of 10) will be making 2 food AND 1 shield even if you don't improve the tile.

The only bad thing about settling in place is that you auto raze the forest and therefore lose a potential for ten shields. But you would need to invest 10 worker turns to chopping the forest anyway, a job that would be reserved for much later.

Moving SW also autorazes forest so apparently that was not your concern. It also moves the wheat out to your second radius which means you can't work it until turn 11 when your culture expands, delayed by 1 turn moving the settler.

Moving NE keeps the wheat and stays on the lake but loses a known hill. That would be a higher shield tile for your capital. Since this is not a 4-turn settler factory I would think the extra sheilds would be welcome towards the end of the Ancient Age.

Just my two cents worth but I wanted you to be clear on the reason TO move. You should always justify moving the settler. You rarely need to justify NOT moving the settler.

Also, as you start out the game OFW, don't forget that irrigating plains is the same worth as mining grasslands but takes 2 turns less. I would irrigate the wheat first if the water is fresh, mine the BG and then irrigate the plains tiles before tackling the grassland mines or the forest chopping.

This sounds like a great varient. Great job thinking of it OFW.:goodjob: Good luck to all.

What CF said makes sense to me. I almost asked what advantage there would be to moving the settler, but I figure you guys have more experience than me. The faster we plop down the faster we can get more settlers (and warriors, and granaries) built.

Are we going to research anything at first or are we planning to beat it out...I mean trade for it? :satan:

I'm in. We should move the worker first to find out.

Move worker first , of course .
But I'm 99% sure we'll plop city where the settler is .

My move would be: Worker to Wheat. If there is nothing exciting revealed then settle on start position. There would have to be something pretty spectacular revealed to make me move the Settler :)

@OneFastWarrior
An early GA is always a possibility with Rome. I looked at the situation from a "Worst case" perspective where the first two civs we met were both Religious. On that basis I felt we had no other choice than to treat the early game as AW.

The dowside, as you pointed out, is we may need to limit exploration initially. However if we strike lucky and our first contacts are non-religious then we can be a little less cautious as, hopefully, we'll have made some friends nearby.

Being able to switch Governments before we have to go to war would be a real bonus for us :)


Ted

This suggestion may come too late, but is it really wise to play this variant with a completely random number of religious civs? If you end up with none or one, the point of the game will be largely lost; if you get four or more, you'll more or less be playing AW, which won't combine happily with the very tricky capital-killing requirement. Setting things up so that you get either two or three religious civs might be best.

Anyway, this is a fascinating concept, OFW, and I'll be watching with interest. :goodjob:

Great idea for a game OFW!! :goodjob:

I will be watching this one. :)

Good luck to all.

Originally posted by leha
Me be interested .
Call me Leha :) :goodjob:

sorry, about the I instead of L, it was early!

Edit edit : this part about hunting capitols makes me happy , how did you get to this , it's just GREAT !

It just came to me when I was trying to think of my next SG and how to get some interest in the game, and it seems to have worked. I did not even remember to post it in the new SG thread!

Yes, I do believe after further thought that settling on site would probably be best. I had planned on moving the worker to the wheat (and hoping that is fresh water). So, the SW move was not really thought out:rolleyes:

Northern Pike, I agree that playing with all random civs could be bad(4 or more religious civs or only 1 or 0)

I guess that means that we should play this as (like TedJackson had stated earlier) an AW to begin the game. limited exploration to find good city spots.

Or If the team wants,I could redo the start position and set up 3 religious civs? I am fine either way.

@TedJackson: I'm not sure we'll be able to get Monarchy or Republic before Pikemen, MDI and Knights appear, and by then the Legionaire's prime time is over. Since we're capitol killers we won't be able to pick off the fringe cities and settle there, and we'll be at almost nil culture. I think early, fierce wars to claim territory are the only way to give us a production base for conquest.

@Northern Pike: I see your point, but I agree with OFW about discovering your neighbors as the game progresses. We may be doomed, or it may be too easy, but that could be the case in any random map.

EDIT: As I understand we can tell immediately if the water is fresh or sea by its food production. 2 food=fresh, 1 food=sea (right-click on the water tile).

Everyone except Generalissimo has checked in. I will not be able to get the 1st set of turns done until wednesday, so if anyone else wants to go 1st and 2nd speak up!

i'll go second and i looked at the save and the water is fresh.

This is me checking in.

Originally posted by Northern Pike
This suggestion may come too late, but is it really wise to play this variant with a completely random number of religious civs? If you end up with none or one, the point of the game will be largely lost; if you get four or more, you'll more or less be playing AW, which won't combine happily with the very tricky capital-killing requirement. Setting things up so that you get either two or three religious civs might be best.
OFW@ to help you out, I opened your save. 3 of your 7 opponents are religious. I won't tell you which ones but you all could do what I did the first turn. Hit F10 and view the space race.
Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
Or If the team wants,I could redo the start position and set up 3 religious civs? I am fine either way.
That would be silly now.;)

Thank you CF! now if we wnat to know we can look or we can let it be a surprise! I

I might start playing the 1st 20 turns tonight. Unless someone else wants to start it.

@OFW: Yeah, I say get this party started. Go for it.

@everyone: I only recently found out about using F10 to see your opponents, but I still prefer to discover them as I go, but I'm not going to put up a fight if someone else wants a look. I feel the same about RCP.

OKay, so I hope to get started tonight but I am feeling a bit under the weather and work is lasting forever today:(
I also have a few things to take care of after work today, so I would not be posting until tomorrow night.

A few things on the game. When we go for attacking the capitols we are allowed to attack units that are outside of cities and destroy improvemnents. I usually try to declare war before entering anothers borders to keep our rep fairly good. However since we will be razing all the cities, our rep will probably be pretty toast anyway. So, How would you like to approach this, I.E. should we declare before entering there borders or wait until they say get lost, then say yeah, sure, whatever;)

with the religious civs it won't matter, we will be declaring on them as soon as we meet them, but these questions are about the other civs.

Personnaly, I would probably continue to play the way that I have been and that is to declare before entering.

Your thoughts

and the 1st post has been updated,, If everyone is fine with the order, then I will start as soon as I can!

Razing only affects AI attitude and therefore the UN option.

However, standing in someones territory and declaring war often prevents you from getting ROPs with everyone else (they don't want you to sneak attack them) There is an implied ROP when you're standing on their soil.

Since you are not AW here, you will probably want ROPs to both help you get to other capitals and to help your allies get to your enemies.

So following your "honorable" declaration would be better IMHO.

But here's a watch out. Often, when I am exploring for contact, I have to enter someones territory just to see their unit. If this happens to be a religious civ, then you will declare war standing in their territory. You will have to be more careful than normal while exploring.

Originally posted by ControlFreak
But here's a watch out. Often, when I am exploring for contact, I have to enter someones territory just to see their unit. If this happens to be a religious civ, then you will declare war standing in their territory. You will have to be more careful than normal while exploring. Well spotted CF.

I would prefer to play honourably.


Ted

CF, you can contact a civ from Diplomacy screen (ctrl-d) if you have a unit next to their border.

Also, a good way to check if water is fresh, is to inspect it. If it produces 2 food, it's fresh.

Originally posted by Tarkeel
CF, you can contact a civ from Diplomacy screen (ctrl-d) if you have a unit next to their border.

Also, a good way to check if water is fresh, is to inspect it. If it produces 2 food, it's fresh.

I'm pretty sure you can't contact AI civ before you see their unit , even if you see their border .

If you can see a square or two that is inside their border you can contact them. I know from when a suicide galley sunk after just seeing some land claimed by another civ and the next turn that civ contacted me!

Seeing their border isn't enough, your unit has to be next to it. Also, you can't contact them onthe f4 screen, it has to be with the diplomacy screen.

If you end your turn on their border (or anywhere that they can see) their face will show up on F4 the NEXT turn. That is presumably because they can see you and "right click" on your unit. Often, you will be contacted by them between turns.

That delays contact by one turn. Therefore, I usually bully my way into their borders so that I can actually find someone to talk to. It's nice if there's a hill nearby so I can just climb it and look down onto their pitiful little civilization.;)

I never knew there was a difference between diplomacy and F4, I'll have to check that out.

And The Game Begins!!

Start 4000BC send worker to the wheat, nothing great revealed so I settle Rome on the starting spot and start training a warrior. Set research to pottery at 100%.

1. 3950BC worker begins irrigation of wheat.

2,3 and 4 3900BC to 3800BC zzzzzz

5. 3750BC Rome trains warrior, starts to train another.(I am keeping the 1st warrior close to home just in case a religious civ should wander by. So, I am sending the 1st warrior on a 3 square loop to the west then back to rome to fortify. you can call me paranoid if you would like to. Normally I would explore and leave nothing at home. worker finshes irrigation and starts road.

6. 3700BC Warrior spots Dyes to the SW of Rome.

7. 3650BC zzzz

8. 3600BC 1st warrior returns to rome. worker finishes road and moves to BG south of rome.

9. 3550BC 2nd warrior trained, start another. Worker starts mine.
new warrior heads E, NE. fortify 1st warrior in Rome

10. 3500BC 1st border expansion. Warrior NE to hill.

11. 3450BC warrior E

12. 3400BC Warrior SE.

13. 3350BC Rome trains Warrior, starts barracks. New warrior heads W. other Warrior SE

14. 3300BC Warrior W. Warrior SE spots cow and bg's on S side of lake.

15. 3250BC Rome grows to size 3. mm to get a couple extra gold and more food. Move lux slider to 10% and Science to 60%. warrior SE again, other warrior W, worker finishes mine starts road.

16. 3200BC Warrior NW, and other Warrior S. Science to 50%

17. 3150BC pottery researched, switch to writing. change Rome to Granary and mm Rome for more shields. Warrior S, spots water. Warrior W spots water(large). Science and lux both to 20%. On writing, I am hoping to be able to trade with someone for BW when we get contacts amd since we cannot build temples, Writing for library's is a good choice(I hope).

18. 3100BC worker finsihes road, moves to forest SE of Rome. Warrior to the W moves N Sees silks. Other warrior W. Science and lux able to move both to 10%.

19. 3050BC wirker to road forest. warrior E, warrior NW

20. 3000BC Warrior NW and other warrior E.

so here is a pic

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-3000bc.JPG

and here is the

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_3000_BC.SAV)

Conehaed234, you are up!!

I edited the 1st post and will try to continue to do that when I notice that someone has played, or if there are skips or whatever.

I also realized that I forgot 1 religious civ (there are 9 not 8) Babylon. No, I have not looked to see who all the civs are yet.

Good luck, I wish I would have explored with all 3 warriors but paranoia got me!

Got it.

Do i play 20 or 10 turns.

The standard way for SG's are 20 turns for 1st person then 10 turns apiece there after

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. I would've probably left a warrior near home, too.

Um, why is our only worker roading a forrest when there's 2 BGs, 3 plains and 2 grasslands unimproved? :confused: I would have improved 5-6 flat tiles then considered roading to the next city or hooking up a resource. (Well, not all in the first 20 turns.)

I haven't seen what position on the map we are yet, so I'm not sure where is best to explore next. I kinda like our starting area for resources, but all the forrest might mean a slower start.

Is there any way to MM to finish the granary before the next pop growth? (Maybe everyone works a plain plain :D .) If we can that saves us 10 food.

At first I was eyeing that cow & fish for one of the next city sites, but the desert to the NE looks like it may have some grass nearby and irrigatable plains between it and Rome. The south may hold possibilities, too.

Conehead234, I'm not seeing that it's specified yet, but almost all SGs I've read start with 20 turns then each player plays 10 after that. So my best guess is that you play 10.

On the worker roading the forest. I wanted to get the BG, worked and It would have taken 2 worker turn moves to get there, so I just decided to build a road here. on hindsight I maybe should have went to the regular grassland spot and started there(sorry, I was not thinking clearly)

As for where we are on the map, It is pretty much right in the middle, so exploring would be good in any direction.

I did my turns we met Japan and Greece and got our first war :soldier: . I killed a jap warrior.

Turn 1- Warrior N, Warrior East find 3 spices.

Turn 2- MM for faster growth same number of turns to complete granary

Turn 3- Warrior North, Warrior East find 2 more spices. We appear to have 3 luxuries around the starting area. Good news for us.

Turn 4- Rome grows. Lux to 30% Warrior north, Warrior East

Turn 5- Granary complete. Set to build warrior. Warrior East to Hut, get 25 gold. Warrior East, see another hut.

Turn 6- Road completes, worker to BG west of forest. Warrior north. Warrior east, Pop hut get barbs.

Turn 7- warrior completes, fortifes, set to settler. Barbs fortify in jungle. Warrior North. Warrior North. Worker starts mine. Lux to 20%.

Turn 8- Meet Greeks to north, see greek warrior settler pair to north. Up BW, Wheel, and CB. No trades are possible except 2 gpt and 50 g for CB. We have no use for it so I don't trade. They have Sparta and silks.
Warrior North, Warrior north. Meet Japan. Declare war. They are North East

Turn 9- Warrior north, Attack jap Warrior, win promote to vetern. Wip settler.

Turn 10-Settler built, set to warrior. Warrior north, Warrior East. I think we should send the Settler warrior pair to SW of cow near BG It is marked on the image.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_World_2370_BC.JPG



Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_2590_BC.SAV)

TedJackson your up:soldier: :soldier:

Originally posted by conehead234
I think we should send the Settler warrior pair to SW of cow near BG It is marked on the image.

West of the cow (NW of the Red Dot) would be on the lake and still have the cow. Plus it would auto clear jungle. If you're worried about not getting the BG without culture expansion, you could plant the next town on the coast by the fish (enroute to claiming the spices) and position it so that the added culture joining the two cities grabs the BGs.

Got it

Play this evening (+8hrs)


Ted

I have company arriving today, so I'll be out of pocket until Sunday evening. I don't think my turn will be up before then.

I think we should settle the spot rest of the cow now. The japs are to the north east i think. I think in the captial we should build 2 more warriors then a settler. Then maybe city 2 could be a settler factory. and the captial pump out warriors.

Pre-flight Checks... OK :thumbsup:

Press button

1 - 2550BC
Settler & escort SE
Eastern Warrior (renamed to Alf :)) E
Northern Warrior (renamed to Bert) N

2 - 2510BC
Bert NE
Settler & escort SE
Alf N - spots barb camp with 2 con Warriors NE
Greece still won't trade the Wheel

3 - 2470BC
Worker Mine - Road
Veii founded on Eastern shore of lake - Barracks
Alf NW
Bert NE
Warrior fort Veii
Rome hits pop 2 so:
Lux to 10%
Research 10%
Greece will now sell the Wheel but they want 58gp + 2gpt - "Thanks but no thanks"

IBT
Rome Warrior - Settler

4 - 2430BC
Warrior fort Rome
Alf N
Bert NE

5 - 2390BC
Alf N
Bert NE

6 - 2350BC
Worker road - moves to Wheat
Alf N
Bert N

7 - 2310BC
Worker E
Alf N - Sees border in the distance, looks the right colour for Japan
Bert NE
Rome has grown to pop 3 so:
Lux 10%

8 - 2270BC
Bert NE
Worker road
Alf NE

9 - 2230BC
Alf N
Bert NE

IBT
Rome Settler - Warrior

10 - 2190BC
Alf N
Bert NE
Lux 0%
I leave the Settler & escort moves for the next player as the situation is unclear


Rome, Veii & Environs
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-2190BC-Rome.jpg

Alf in Japan?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-2190BC-Alf.jpg
Pillaging those Wines might be fun :)

Bert in the Northwest
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-2190BC-Bert.jpg

Notes
Greece still wants 58gp + 2gpt for the Wheel - keep an eye on this as if the price drops then they've sold it to someone else, probably Japan
The Settler is a problem. He could go North or South hoping to find something good. I'm tempted by the Cow & Silks site to the West but it's a bit remote for our 3rd city. Probably the safest course is to plant him in the forest, South of the lake 3SW of Veii.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-2190BC.zip)


Ted

I like the names Ted!

as for the new city, I know we have not explored to the north much, but I would go that way, to expand in Greece's direction, But I guess that decision is up to the next player

Generalissimo, you're up! Good luck!!

Yup that is Japan. and Japan starts with wheel so greece wouldn't trade it to them. The 3SW spot looks good.

Originally posted by conehead234
Japan starts with wheel so greece wouldn't trade it to them. Sometimes it's so easy to overlook the obvious :blush:


Ted

2190 BC 1
Send settler from Rome South.

2150 BC 2
I moved a warrior out of Rome, but it grew, so I had to increase the lux slider up to 20% and put science up to 20% as well.

Alf moves next to Kyoto. Three wines.

2110 BC 3
Japanese forces move a Settler Spearman pair out and Alf follows them.

2070 BC 4
Warrior and spearman both attack Alf, Alf Bravely defeaths the warrior and brings the spearman to 1 hp.

Veii builds barracks and starts on an Archer.
Antium founded on south shore of lake.

1930 BC 5
zzz

1990 BC 6
Large force of three warriors apear by worker between Veii and Rome!

1950 BC 7
Worker retreats back to Rome.

1910 BC 8
Archer from rome attacks a warrior and Wins.

1870 BC 9
Archer fends off attack from Warrior and becomes a Veteran.
Two warriors just outside Veii and it riots!

Summerian warrior moves near Rome.

Warrior from Rome attacks a Japanese warrior, but dies.
Veii warrior attacks another warrior and gets promoted. Doesn't loose a HP.

1830 BC 10
Warrior outside of Veii retreats. Archer kills it before it gets too far.
Due to the warrior I moved from Rome, she riots.



It doesn't look like Rome is doing that good of a job. They are falling behind in Techs and Japan nearly captured one of her cities. Can the next Roman Emporer do better an capture the Japanese Capital?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-1830BC.SAV

Got it .

I will play in the evening ( ~10 hrs )

Peeking in....

Wow, I'm on deck already. I'll be able to have a "got it" Sunday afternoon assuming leha posts before then.

Good luck leha, no hurry , I won't have time until Tuesday night.
Hopefully things will start to look better.

Preturn

Looks like nothing needs to be changed .
Press spacebar

IBT

Nothing special

1--1790BC

archer moves east
Greeks are up BW , The Wheel and CB .
Alex is annoyed :eek: ;)
All our cities build archers .
Alex agrees to sell us BW for only 71 gold pieces .
We buy it , Alex gets cautious ( we need spearmen , gentlemen )
Rome switches to spear .


IBT

Zzzz

2--1750BC

Rome builds spear --> archer .
Rome grows to pop 4 but spear provides MP so I can
move lux slider to 20%.
Alex got IW , and IW is too close to his heart , so he is
not willing to reveal secrets of iron swords to the Great Rome .

IBT

Carthage warrior pops up west of Rome

3---1725BC

Hmm , Carthage has got contacts of all our friends ( Egypt and India are among them ) . I'm not sure what I should do in this case , so I stop here for brieffing . Should I acquire contact with reigious civs and declare war on them ?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw12.JPG

I don't know. I think we should let them find us. try to get as many techs as you can out of carthage.

I would go for techs also. If we meet too many religious civs, they will all be coming for us. Unless we can get others to go to war against the religious ones.

More contacts = lower cost techs

At the moment we are looking at monopoly prices for any tech. Buying a couple of the (non-religious) contacts will problably lower the cost to 3rd rank.


Ted

3-1725BC

OK .
So , as I understand , I am not obliged to buy contacts with religious civs , so I'll wait when they buy contact with me .

I buy contact with Korea + 3 gold from Carthage for contacts with Japan and Greece .
Buy Masonry from Hannibal for Pottery and 60 gold ( Alex don't have Masonry , Korea have Masonry , CB, The Wheel and IW . Carthage have Masonry , The Wheel , CB and Writing )
Sell Masonry to Alex for CB and 38 gold .
Korea has Mysticism .
Carthage wants all our gold and 4 gpt for contact with China .
We cannot allow this .
We look funny on Histograph :( .

IBT

Greeks start Pyramids .

4--1700BC

Veli archer--> spear ( now , when there are 2 MP in the city , move citizen from lake to forest to boost production )
Get IW from Alex for contact with Korea 49 gold and 1 gpt.
We get iron west of Rome , first built settler will go there I think .
Goddamn Hannibal wants too high price for contact with China .
I sell him IW for 27 gold .

IBT

Zzzz

5--1675BC

Rome archer --> spear for escort .
Barb camp dispersed +25 gold .
Get Mysticisn from Korea for 41 gold and 2 gpt.
Get The Wheel from Alex for Mysticism and 13 gold .
Everybody is up Writing .

IBT

People expand our palace .
Koreans build Oracle .

6--1650BC

Barb camp dispersed +25 gold .

IBT

Nothing

7--1625BC

Rome grows --> lux 30%
Greece expanding dangerously fast .

IBT

Zzzz

8--1600BC

Rome spear --> settler
Veli spear --> settler.

IBT

Zzzz

9--1575BC

Antium archer --> worker
Writing due in 1 turn --> science 10%
Greece and Korea have HR .

IBT

nothing

10--1550BC

Done writing -- start Lit at 20%


Well , here I pass our miserable empire to next player .
Some notes :

1. We start forming archer force + spear on our east flank . japaneese look weak , probably fighting swarms of barbs .

2. I started additional settler at Veli cause our expansion rate is very low . I think he should go for wines .

3 . We need more workers . I know that it is impossible to get everything with just 3 cities , but workers are must .



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2.JPG


Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_1550BC.sav)

Looking good :thumbsup:

I know we're a bit slow starting but we'll soon start catching up. Trust me :)

There are a few unclaimed luxuries just waiting to be settled. I can see Wines, Silks, spices and Incense on the screenshot - not to mention the Dyes that will be in our borders before too long.

I suggest that we carry on building Warriors until we have about 10 to 12 then hook up the Iron, upgrade to Swords and go sort out Japan for good.


Ted

But when we attack we have to have settlers with us so the greeks don't reclaim the land we raze. and go for the lux because we will need then because we can't build religous buildings.

I think the Setter from Rome should go the the iron. and the one from Veii to the wines.

May be we should continue to expand and just keep the archers and spears to fight off japan. But good trading turns.

Originally posted by conehead234
But when we attack we have to have settlers with us so the greeks don't reclaim the land we raze.Doesn't matter...

If they settle there we'll just evict them :D


Ted

Edit: post in wrong place at wrong time.

good trading turns leha. I think its looking a bit better.

Got it!

I'm not sure yet when I'll play. It may be Monday night, and I should post shortly after I play.

I'm happy to see some more military. I agree with leha's priorities, and I think I'll probably go for settlers first, and I'll try to explore some more of our immediate settling area before the settlers finish. That's my plan, anyway. Oh, iron is a priority of course. I'm surprised the only horse on our map is just outside Kyoto's border. There's bound to be more horses out there, and hopefully close to us.

If anyone attacks I'll fight defensively (near or in our territory) as we don't have a capitol attack force yet.

In a couple of recent games the greeks greatly outcultured me; currently all culture looks even, but if the greeks start getting culture we might consider going after them before Japan. (Not likely during my turn or the next couple, though.) We should be able to get techs for peace which we can never do with a religious civ, then beat up on Japan while our peace deal is in effect with Greece. One idea for the future, but there are definitely more immediate concerns.

I haven't started playing yet. Late tonight would be the soonest, but it's looking like a Monday evening set of turns for now.

My current thinking is the biggest priority is to increase our production base, and that means more cities, more population and more productive tiles. In an emergency we can rush military, but I don't think Japan can get a significant force to us right now, and if we're careful we should be able to see them coming in time to change production and make some more military (maybe, but not likely granary).

Right now I think I might keep Rome on settler, put Veii on a worker (MM'ing to finish as soon after pop 5 as possible) and I think I want Antium to grow to 4 or 5 before popping a worker, so I'll probably change production to a military unit or possibly barracks. I'll avoid pop rushing anything unless we're overrun by an enemy.

When I peeked at the save earlier I think Rome is due to expand soon, so we should get the silks in our borders and that BG by Antium before my turn ends.

Next city: Hmmm; I want that iron, and I don't think the next culture expansion will get it for us (and I don't want to burn a worker with a colony this early), but that wine/grassland to the NE looks like a must-have, too, and would expand towards our competition. (Not to mention possible future saltpeter and eventually oil.)

Yeah, I think I'll settle the wines before the iron unless the group makes a great counterpoint. But should I try to grab the wheat, settle on dessert or try to position to monopolize the wines (assuming there's 2-4 of them)? It looks like I can't have wine and wheat until a border expansion, which for us won't be until Literature and libraries. Also, if the unexplored land just north of Rome is productive (2 or more of BG's, irrigatable plains, river, bonuses) I might settle that to be closer to the palace and have less corruption.

Get the wines and iron and expand towards the greeks. and try to grab the silks and spices.

If we are to attack them later. in the game we want to be closer to their capital so we don't have march thru most of their land to reach the capital.

Originally posted by conehead234
Get the wines and iron and expand towards the greeks. and try to grab the silks and spices.

If we are to attack them later. in the game we want to be closer to their capital so we don't have march thru most of their land to reach the capital. Very good point. I came back here to post the opposite, that we would have a harder time defending a far away city and that we should settle close. But you're right; we need an aggressive roadway towards the enemy capitols.

We just have to be sure not to let our outer cities fall because we can't take them back until they become the capitol.

My current plan is to focus on workers (need lots of roads and tile improvements) and settlers from our current cities (pop > 3 and < 7, and have the new cities produce military. Naturally the core cities will have military or infrastructure builds between settlers and workers, and enemy incursions may affect priorities.


Do we have a long term research goal yet? I'm thinking Monarchy might be more important than Map Making to us because we have our work cut out assimilating the nearby civilizations, and staying in war and having a commercial trait we want to avoid Republic but get rid of the despotism penalty.

Originally posted by Puppeteer
Do we have a long term research goal yet? I'm thinking Monarchy might be more important than Map Making to us because we have our work cut out assimilating the nearby civilizations, and staying in war and having a commercial trait we want to avoid Republic but get rid of the despotism penalty. From experience Republic is a better bet than Monarchy. I always used to think that Monarchy was the way to go if early war was on the cards but I've played in a few games recently that have proved me wrong. See MB3 - Old Testament Bunfight (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62244) for a particularly good example.


Ted

Summary: 2 new cities, iron, horses and wines in our borders but unconnected. Dyes in Rome's border after culture expansion but not connected. 1 additional settler ready. 1 new worker, total of 2. Contact and war with India. Lost 1 vet archer to Japan, killed 4 India warriors. Built 1 spearman, 1 archer, 1 warrior and a Rome barracks. Someone sold our contact to Egypt but we haven't spoken, seen units or declared war yet. No new resources roaded, though. Bought HBR from Carthage for gpt deal in fear that they were about to attack us.

Turn log:

General goals: Settlers, productivity (Workers & improved tiles) iron, wines, population, defence and military road net. Reminder to self: roaming barbs.

0: 39g, +1(12-11)gpt, sci 20%, lux 30%, no trade or resources, 1 worker, 4 warrior, 4 archer, 3 spearmen, at war with Japan (the silly invisible-man-worshiping inferiors). Down Horseback Riding to most. Micromanage Rome to work 2 water tiles for more commerce but still finish settler and growth in 2, lux to 20%, now +6gpt. I said I would change Veii to worker, but changing my mind; the matter is settled when I see we'd waste 5 shields switching. MM Veii to finish settler and grow to size 5 (well, size 3) in 6 turns. Leave Antium as is, worker and growth in 4. Leave research on Lit but change sci to 10%, still 40 turns. Now +7gpt. Locate all military. Note worker is roading forrest to connect Veii & Rome, done in 2. Disable "Always Renegotiate Deals". Why was that set? Note gpt deals: (14) 1gpt to Greece, (15) 2gpt to Korea. Wake fortified spear by iron and move him north to explore the terrain immediately NW of Rome's border. Mil advisor says there are barbs near Rome! I assume they are N or NW since if they were SW of us they would be near Antium. We have average military compared to Japan. Hit enter...

1: East spearman moves towards wines for survey and settler guard. East hurt archer fortifies to heal. Other archer SE to uncover black spot and finds 2/2 barb warrior. W spearman N: Horses found! N-NW of Rome's NW BG tile. Bert appears on his way home from Greece, he continues his journey.

IT: Alexander of Greece demands 21g tribute. Such a cheeky civ, will definitely be incorporated into Rome, but for now we will humor him while he fertilizes ourNorthwestern lands for us while we develop our core cities. Alexander goes from Cautious to Polite.

IT: 2/2 Barb warrior attacks 3/3 archer, dies w/no damage to us and no promotion.
Rome Settler - Barracks in 3, MM to minimize waste
Rome grows/settler-shrinks to 4
Rome culture expands, just missing iron but getting 2 silks and a BG in our borders.

2: Decide to send Rome's settler NW to iron/near horses rather than cross over Veii to go to wines; Veii's settler in 4 will head to wines; this is to avoid wasting a turn or two for each settler. Worker finishes road, moves to cow. Notice that military advisor no longer mentions barbs; AI must've busted the camp.

IT: 2/2 barb warrior moves towards east units from NE desert.

3: Vet spear and vet archer (now healed) meet on hill just S of barb. Worker begins irrigating cow (the pervert). Settler: orignially was going to plop him in jungle N of iron, but after discovering horse and river/floodplain, think I'll settle NW of iron and have another settler claim the horse, river & floodplain area; settler moves NE of iron headed to NW of iron; reg spear joins & guards settler.

IT: Antium Worker - Barracks. India vet warrior appears near Bert from West, south of Greecian town Knossos. Carthage reg warrior appears at our border W of silks.

4: 1450 BC (sorry, been forgetting to add the year): Check Carthage, they're polite, but our military weak compared to them. India is polite, but not for long. They have spices & ivory, tech parity, 5 cities (incl. capitol), 52g, 1 worker available for sale and no contact with the Japanese. We explain to him that his religious beliefs are silly and quaint and that we will be relieving his people of the useless fantasy. (War declared on India.) Bert could stay on his mountain across the river, but he is also vet and wants to return home and won't be held up by this silly Indian. Bert S to forrestadjacent India's vet warrior. Antium's new worker East to plains. Reconsider settler's destination; I sure would like that horse, river and floodplain, but I think the consensus is that iron is the priority, so move to NW of iron. Oh yeah, forgot about that barb IT with India and Carthage paying us visits; the 2/2 barb is fortified on a desert tile. Vet archer attacks, wins losing 1hp.

IT: Silly Indian warrior attacks Bert (both vet), Bert wins losing 2 but promoting to Elite! Uh-oh, 1 reg and 1 vet Indian warrior appear west of Antium! Antium only has a warrior garrison. Rome Barracks - Settler, MM for cash & hopefully complete settler and growth to 6 in 5 turns. Carthage warrior moves N, stays out of our borders.

5: (1425 BC): Antium has a 3/3 warrior defending; India warriors are 2 tiles away (on separate tiles). We can't afford to lose or abandon Antium, so I'll pop rush, but a spear or archer? (No units close enough to come help anytime soon.) I want an archer to attack first, but in this case I think we'll be safer with a defensive spear. The worker may have to abandon work and flee. 3 shields in box, rush spearman for 1 pop point bringing Antium down to pop 1. Oh, worker hasn't started working yet; I figure they will go for him if he's there, so I'm moving him towards Veii for now. Founded Cumae NW of iron bringing iron into our borders and silks nearby when we get libraries to expand culture. Unfortunately the land isn't very workable right now, but iron was the priority. cumae producing warrior, MM to finish in 5 since India may show up. Spear fortifies in Cumae for garrison duty. Bert could use some healing, but heads home for now and hopes to discover more terrain on the way. Lux to 10%. Good news: compared to India our military is average. Bad news: There military is where ours ain't. Establish embassy with Greece for 38g. Athens has no strategic resources but 3 silks hooked up. They have two cows in their workable tiles. They are building Pyramids, due in 39 turns. No improvements besides palace. 2 hoplites garrison. 7spt, 9gpt, +4food/pt no beakers or lux shown. Pop 3, 1 happy & 2 content, grow in 3 turns. Culture 106/1000, +2 per turn, expand in 447 turns. Nice river and at least 4 BG. We have 1g left and +6gpt.

IT: India warriors advance on Antium, reg to NW jungle tile and vet to W grass tile. Veii settler - archer in 4. Antium spearman - spearman. Rome grows to size 5. Carthage warrior, now inside our borders because of Cumae, moves to NE, between iron and our mine. I think he's just passing through, but I'm watching him.

6: 1400 BC: Antium spear fortifies. Antiums worker towards Veii. Settler from Veii N towards wines, escort will meet him on the way (F3 doesn't report barbs, nobody seems to have horses resource). Checking F4, China has Mathematics now, also up HBR. China also has a worker for sale, but it would cost 6gpt...nah, too much for right now as we're at 7g, +6gpt and probably need the slider to go up. Notice that I could have had extra military close to Antium by Rome's road; would've been Rome's spear or warrior and would've needed lux up, but I missed the possibility. Move extra archer in core (originally from Antium) to Rome, move warrior to jungle tile N of India reg warrior. Spear is now 1 tile north of wines, spots more horses 2 tiles NW of wines, 4 tiles N of Veii! But it looks like only 1 wine tile. Lux to 20%, now +5gpt, 7g. Nothing more to do but hit enter and feel the wrath of India.

IT: Yay! India reg warrior stupidly attacks our reg warrior just arrived from Rome and loses without hurting us. Vet warrior W of Antium fortifies. Antium is safe for the moment. Encroaching Carthage warrior continues NE direction away from our units, cities and improvements.

7: 1375 BC: Move warrior to jungle NW of Antium (NE of India vet warrior). Fleeing worker is currently on grassland 2 tiles SW of Veii; starts roading it since he's safe for now; this is currently out of our territory but will help connect Veii & Antium eventually; not my first choice but after fleeing I don't see what's better. Other worker finishes irrigating cow, starts road. Eastern trio has split the past few turns; spear is scouting out new city area a little more, reg archer meeting with settler and 3/4 archer just climbed a mountian N/NW a few tiles of wines to find a cow on a river, a barb horseman on an adjacent mountain, a barb camp 2 tiles E/SE (on the incense), a Japanese reg warrior and reg archer apparently going after the barb camp or possibly sneaking down to attack Veii from the East. We now have a strong military compared to India and still average compared to Japan.

IT: Stupid India attacks the jungle warrior again, this time with vet warrior, and again he repels the attacker with no damage and promotes to veteran. I am so relieved and proud of him I'm going to rename him. Japan reg archer attacks & kills conscript barb horseman on mountain north of our archer, losing 1hp and promoting to 3/4. Japan reg warrior attacks barb encampment (2/2 warrior) and wins losing 1hp. Carthage warrior in our territory doubles back to SW and is between our iron and mine again.

8: Check Carthage. They're cautious towards us. We're weak compared to them, and the military advisor also advises there are Lybian tribes near Antium. Buy HBR from them for 1g and 4gpt; they are still cautious but stand to lose 4gpt if they get frisky. Oops, forgot to MM Rome last turn when it grew; MM to finish Settler and grow in 2, but have to work 2 water to do it. Rename our twice victorious and unscathed vet warrior to "Jungle Boogie". Jungle Boogie moves south to scout land and find the barb camp. Spear scouts a bit more, settler & archer meet on possible city site, mountain 3/4 archer fortifies for healing and defense if Japan archer attacks. Notice that Antium is working the 2/0/2 water and not the 2/2/0 game forrest..WTF? That square was workable throughout the brief Indian seige. Fixed that.

IT: Japan 3/4 archer attacks something (black tile) to the north and wins apparently unscratched. Carthage warrior doubles back yet again to the NE..he's pacing; or maybe our gpt deal changed his plans?

9: 1325 BC: Jungle Boogie S to forrest, finds fortified India reg warrior immediately SW in forrest (why? Oh, maybe he's barb hunting--but then why fortified?). Found Neapolis just west of wines; not as far NE as I originally planned, but the city already has horses, wine and 2BG in its borders. Leave production as spearman (in 10) for now. FP not yet available as build item--just checking. Fortify archer as Neapolis garrison. Spear towards Neapolis for garrison duty. Mountain archer (now healed 4/4) to N to scout and flirt w/Japan archer. Flipping through advisor screens I notice we now have contact with Egypt; I see no Egyptian units and we haven't spoken yet, so our contact must've been traded to her; double-checking the rules this seems a gray area; I decide to not talk to her right now. She'll probably contact me interturn, anyway.

IT: India reg warrior attacks 4/4 Jungle Boogie. Jungle Boogie wins, but he is no longer immortal (but as athiests we already knew that) since he lost 2hp in the battle. Well, it was a forrest anyway...his forte is the jungle. Japan requests an audience. Sure, Caesar is in a good mood and ready for some more amusement. Tokugawa offers even peace treaty. Well, it wasn't that funny after all. No reply. 3/4 Japan archer kills our 4/4 archer but redlines. Carthage warrior moves N and is nearly out of our territory. Rome settler - spearman. Veii archer - spearman. Cumae warrior - spearman.

10: 1300 BC: Cumae warrior fortifies as garrison. Bert diverts slightly to east to scout just north of horse/river/floodplains. Jungle Boogie fortifies to heal. Veii's new archer moves towards Rome for possible SW territory patrol or settler escort duty. Spearman into Neapolis for garrison. Both workers finish their roads. All unfortified military units have moved, but I'll leave both workers and the settler with full movement for the next player. Lux to 10% since Rome at size 4 now.

Save game, screen shots and discussion to follow shortly. . .

Oops, had gridlines on for most of the screenshots. I saw someone complain about that before.

Troop inspection:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1300bc-mil.jpg

The empire, up close and personal. Note Greecian border and iron to our immediate north. Also, Neapolis has 2 BGs; the shield to the SW is hidden by the pop number:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1300bc-core.jpg

Northwest expansion/battle zone:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1300bc-nw.jpg

East expansion/battle zone. That's the edge of Japan in the NE corner:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1300bc-east.jpg

Annotated big picture. A fish is West of the Western cow but not on the screenshots. I also didn't mark two wheats, the incense or the spices, all previously known:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1300bc-bigmap.jpg

Unfortunately, not much is known about the S or SW. I previously assumed it was coast, but there's a barb camp out there somewhere and 3 India units seemed to come from W/SW.

The Save: OFW2_1300BC.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_1300BC.SAV)

Location of India?: My first Indian contact was just south of Greece's westernmost city, but 3 warriors have come from W/SW of Antium. I assumed there was coast to our SW, but there may be India that way. If not then perhaps a landbridge exists west of Knossos?

Egypt: Location unknown. No sightings or actual contact yet, but Cleo's on F4. (She's religious and therefore must be punished, of course.)

Greece: We have an embassy in Athens. They have a city not far north of Rome that Bert just found the borders to. It has iron on a hill in its borders.

Gpt deals active with Korea (5 turns 2gpt), Greece (4 turns 1gpt) and Carthage (18 turns 4gpt).

Carthage: Suspiciously paced within our borders after expansion put warrior in our borders, but now appears to be headed north after gpt deal.

Barbarians: There are tribes near Antium! Antium is not connected by road and hard to get troops in and out, but the best way seems to be through Rome and the forrest road. Jungle Boogie is fortified to heal and then look for the camp or more India troops.

Wandering enemy troops: A Japan 1/4 archer is currently on the mountain 1 tile east of the cow several tiles N/NE of Neapolis. A Japan warrior was on the incense tile to the NE two IT's ago.

Possible next city sites: NW of Rome has horse, river, plains, hills, floodplains, forrest. NW of Cumae could snag silks and cow or silks and BG, either on a river. Others may be desirable, too.

Production: Everybody's building spearman, but all shield boxes are small enough to change to anything you want. I really didn't want all spearman but wasn't sure what to build next.

Infrastructure: Rome has a barracks.

Happiness: Antium was pop rushed 1 pop point.

Defense: Each city has 2 garrison. I didn't plan it that way, but I feel really good about it, although some are garrisoned with offensive units.

Worker tasks: Wow, too many priorities and too few workers. We need iron hooked up. We need horses hooked up. We need 3 cities hooked up. We have 2 luxes we can hook up. we need production (more improved tiles) to keep building up our forces. I'm afraid India is to our SW (not sure, though), and I really want Antium connected by road so we can move troops back and forth quickly, but we'll have to road two jungle tiles or 2 flatlands and a forrest to connect it. Both workers have finished their work and have yet to move in my turn 10. One is on the cow on the road network, and the other is 2 turns SW of Veii after fleeing the India seige of Antium and roading a future connecting tile; I had planned to have him move to the BG next, but you'll have to decide if other priorities are more important.

Suggestion: I didn't trade any maps at all! The next player may try to trade maps to find where India and Egypt are so we can plan for near-term defense and future offense.

Other last minute notes: Bert is hurt but no known enemies are nearby; he's been scouting hurt for quite a few turns. Jungle Boogie fought off 3 Indian warriors and is fortified to heal a bit; don't know if more Indians are about (I doubt it), but there is a barb camp "near Antium" and therefore likely very close to him.

First orders of business for next player: Move settler and workers before ending turn. Change cities' production as desired. Decide whether to declare on Egypt or wait until units sighted or contacted by Cleo. Perhaps trade maps to see where India and Egypt are.

The Save: OFW2_1300BC.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_1300BC.SAV)

Wow , I never saw more detailed report , jees .
Bravo :goodjob:

I never got irritated by gridlines , so it's OK by me .

How did you managed to put 4+ ictures in one post ?
Once I've tried to put 3 pictures and couldn't , cause you may only post 2 pics by forum rules ?

Two comments :

1. spearmen are good , but we'd better build worriors for upgrade-to-sword strategy , Ted tought me , it's good ;)

2. See comment 1. We need some cash for this strategy , so we need to make some cash .

Nice turn Puppeteer! Show those people what Hoosiers can do!

leha, hope you like it (the thorough explanation). I guess I wanted to justify my moves and let people tell me where I was thinking wrong. For the pics I didn't attach, but I uploaded and linked with the IMG button as described in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55122) . Is there a forum rules limit? Where are the forum rules?

Generalissmo, thanks! I'm pretty happy with the turns myself. leha set me up well, too.

Critiquing myself, I think my only big mistake is not trading maps as it would help to know where India & Egypt are as well as revealing more nearby terrain which we need for expansion planning. Buying HBR from Carth might have been a bit expensive at 4gpt, but at the time I thought there was a fair chance India could raze Antium and Carthage's warrior was acting suspicious and I didn't want to fight them too right then. Jungle Boogie was a lucky break; I intended him as backup & cleanup, but he served as a distraction and wiped out the attackers. The archer loss surprised me as we were 4/4 and Japan was 3/4, and on mountains archers are dead even attack/defense. Others might have placed the cities a bit differently or moved the workers differently but I don't think I made any definite mitakes there.

Back to leha's comments on spearmen/warriors: I didn't really want all spearmen, but all builds completed recently and can be changed to warrior (or anything else) without wasting shields, and in several cases spearman wasted fewer shields than warriors. If we go for warriors, though, Rome can be MM'ed to work freshwater for more gold while still finishing warriors in 2 turns with little or no shield waste; the other water cities may be MM'ed similarly.

There is a settler in Rome with 1 movement point, and I'd like to see discussion as to where to send him. I still like the NW horses/plains/river/fp area and moved Cumae SW to make room for this city site. I'm thinking of 1 tile NE or NW of the horse as a site. There's also a cow and fish to the midwest, and a fish, wheat and spices to the mideast.

It might also be good to discuss worker priorities based on their current positions. Everything is priority, but there are only two of them and they aren't close to the resources right now. I'm really not sure what to do first...road to the new cities? Road to Antium? Improve nearby tiles? Hook up resources? Resources seem very important, but a lot of worker turns will be used up since all resources are either far away or accross jungles & hills. The Antium worker is well positioned to road, irrigate and mine his way back towards Antium but is also two turns away from Veii and the main road net. The worker on the cow can continue to improve Veii or move relatively swiftly back along the road towards other tasks. They could even both hit the forrest tile SW of Veii and road it together in 3 (?) turns (well, 4 including the move).

Originally posted by Puppeteer
I'm really not sure what to do first...road to the new cities? Road to Antium? Improve nearby tiles? Hook up resources?

<lurk mode off>
A military roadnet (taking into consideration river crossings) can be priceless.
Sounds to me like those workers should be doing that, and/or whatever it takes to get more workers.

FWIW
<lurk mode on>

[me, too lurker]
If you have surplus shields building warriors, build a worker. The lost shield will not slow your warrior production and will eventually speed everything up by improving your relatively unimproved tiles.

As far as worker actions, you should be working on improving growth rates. If you get into real trouble, a pop rushed spear can save you, but you need a citizen to do that. If you don't get into trouble, the higher growth will get you to higher production faster. It looks like (from the pictures) you have a deer and a wine that could give you better than +2F growth. Both need a lot of worker turns to get irrigation there. But if irrigation is coupled with building the military road net, then the benefit would pay off. Add that with the happiness from the wines and the location of the worker, roading/irrigating directly north would seem like a nice way to go. The problem is the roads are out of your borders and could be used by the enemy/easily pillaged. The settler could try to expand your borders in that direction although there seems to be a better sight on the hill by the dyes which brings in 2 BGs.

Also, Cumae is at 1F, 2S per turn. Is the tile NE of the iron a grass or jungle? If you can get 2fpt instead, that would be better, if not, then build a warrior and then worker. You need to improve something to get it to at least grow at +2fpt. Settling past the river and irrigating the plains tiles along the river would be faster than chopping Cumae's jungle.
[back to lurking]

Thanks lurkers all :)

Roads from Rome to the satellite cities are a must if we're to defend our empire effectively.

At this stage of the game I would build Warriors rather than Spears as Warriors are cheaper and can be upgraded to Swords which defend as well as Spears and attack a whole sight better :)

All in all, a good set of turns Puppeteer :thumbsup:


Ted

Sorry I keep posting so much, but I'm jazzed as this is my first SG and I'm learning a lot by reading others and overanalyzing/justifying my own turns.

I just took a second look to our SW. There are two BGs and we can lock up the third dye if we settle on that hill just SW of the SW dye. We also grab some jungle for (hopefully) future rubber. Getting some maps interturn is probably key to deciding which city site is best militariliy.

I'm easily swayed, but I'm with Matt_G now. I was really dreading the possible loss of Antium, and a roadnet would've allowed me to shuffle adequate troops to it in time and avoid pop rushing. Cumae and Neapolis haven't been threatened yet, but they will be and we want roads ASAP.

Matt_G also mentions doing what it takes to get more workers. We had the wheat irrigated, and I irrigated the cow, so both Veii and Rome should be able to produce workers at a reasonable rate. Rome has a granary, but Veii doesn't (I think; I'm at work now and going by memory and my posts).

CF, you're right about Cumae; it's working a forrest for 1fpt/2spt. I did that to finish the warrior 2nd garrison quickly in case more Indian troops were coming from that way. The warrior just produced this last IT, so I agree with putting the citizen back on the grassland (yes, it's a grassland). I really really didn't want to pop rush, but I thought I had to. As it turns out I could've moved Jungle Boogie one turn earlier and attacked a warrior before he had a chance to attack Antium, but it would have still been very risky not to pop rush the spear I think. I was also thinking about irrigating/roading to the wines, but I was thinking of starting north of the wheat and doglegging through the desert. Your idea would be a few turns faster but leave the roads in the open like you say. Then again we're likely to have a concentration of troops there at all times since it's the Japanese front.

Here's an idea to work with: Both workers to forrest SW of Veii to road it (I'm thinking this is ultimately faster than roading 2 or 3 jungles by the dyes; am I right?). Then one worker roads/mines/irrigates back through BG and plain to Antium while the other roads/irrigates towards Neapolis. Hopefully we'll gain a worker or two during this who roads towards Cumae (not sure yet if it's better to cross the hills and pick up the iron on the way or road the flatlands and add the iron after). We should have a military roadnet, some improved workable tiles and be very close to hooking up strat & lux resources within the next 15-30 turns. Naturally enemy troop movements and the new city site will affect this plan.

@TedJackson, thanks! I agree with roadnet and warriors->Legionaires.

Originally posted by Puppeteer
@TedJackson, thanks! I agree with roadnet and warriors->Legionaires. Of course I meant Legions (which defend better than Spears and still attack at 3) :)


Ted

Don't we have to declare war on a religious civ as soon as we make contact with them. So i think we should declare war on Egypt.

I will have to finish reading the posts, tonight, tomorrow, I will probably start my play tomorrow and post by wednesday, sorry for the breif delay.

Originally posted by conehead234
Don't we have to declare war on a religious civ as soon as we make contact with them. So i think we should declare war on Egypt. Well, I never saw any Egyptian units or borders and never spoke w/Cleo. I just happened to notice her face on F4 before ending turn 9, so I wasn't sure that counted as contact; in fact I dont always flip through F4 at the end of the turn so I might have easily missed her. (Someone sold her contact with us; I didn't get contact with her. Also I'm pretty sure I checked F4 or trades in turn 8 and she wasn't there/contact w/Egypt was for sale.) I expected her to contact me in the 9/10 IT making it a moot point, but she didn't contact me.

I would've definitely declared immediately upon direct contact, seeing a unit or seeing the border, but as it is I'm not sure if I broke the rules or not. :spank: :confused:

But it's certainly up for discussion if OFW is obligated to declare war immediately upon opening the save.

Come to think of it, if we open F4 and it says we have a peace treaty (blue line) then we're definitely obligated to declare IMO. If there's no red/blue line then I'm not sure what the answer is. We definitely don't have a turn-specified treaty since we haven't spoken, and I think there is no peace/war line until you speak with them, but I usually contact and trade so fast that I'm not sure.

I probably should've done it anyway. I guess I was feeling defensive and not wanting to provoke more war than absolutely necessary, but since we haven't seen Egypt yet then they're probably far enough away to not be a threat for quite some time.

Yeah, I guess I was bad; I knew I could talk to her and didn't inform her she's scum. My bad. :sniper: :spank:

Leha is banned for 3 days in OT

We probably won't get back to Lehas turn before 3 days, so all is cool.

Okay, so. I plan to settle our nesxt city NE of Horses on the hill. I probably will let the spear finish in Veii (escort)and start a settler there. Since Rome ATM is our only barracks, I will probably start pumping out warriors and leave them there for upgrade. I will also probably switch 2 of the other towns to workers. This leaves the last town, I relly would like to have another barracks to produce vet units, however, I am not sure how many turns that would take( I would like Cumae to have a barracks) but I may just pump out regular warriors, not sure yet. I do not want the iron hooked until I have sufficient untis and cash to upgrade.

Also I do intend to tell Cleo that she should not have made herself known to us. (yes if we intend to dedclare war, then we should make contact when they appear on diplo screen, sorry if that was not clear, but no biggie)

Also, I would have to say that after lit is done we should go for republic as our form of government.

Also, I should tell you that even though we are going for conquest. All victory conditions were left on.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
Also I do intend to tell Cleo that she should not have made herself known to us. (yes if we intend to dedclare war, then we should make contact when they appear on diplo screen, sorry if that was not clear, but no biggie)I should've known, but I sissied out. For what it's worth, if you declare before ending the turn we only had her contact for 1 turn.

Republic sounds good to me if everyone thinks we can handle the WW.

Good info on the victory conditions. I had wondered about that. We'll have to watch for domination later. I doubt we'll have to worry about other civs launching ships. :D We may have to watch other civs' culture, though.

This is a PM from Leha

From Leha
Please , tell guys I have serious problems with one of mods here and have to leave CFC . Sorry . Have a nice play .

So, I guess That means Leha is not coming back?! So we have 5, If someone wants the spot, It's early and Your welcome.
I am fine with 5 or 6. I might post in SG registry if need be.

i don't think we need another person. 5 people is good

I'm easy. 5, 6, whatever. I'm sorry to see Leha leaving, though. :(

I've been reading SGs for just a couple of weeks, but I've seen several people banned. If I'm doing anything that might get me banned someone please let me know. I know I've posted a whole bunch the past two days; hopefully that's not considered spamming.

Preturn-- I notice that we are on the end of turn 68, we lost a couple of turns somewhere, we should be on the end of turn 70(1250BC). I am going to take 11 turns, Conehead234 take 11 turns and we will be back on track of 10 turns each.

I change Rome to Worker and mm to not waste shields. Antium, Cumae and Neapolis changed to warriors.
Trade WM to Greece for TM and 24 gold. Trade WM to Carthage for TM and 2 gold. Trade WM to Korea for TM and 18 gold, Trade WM to China for TM and 14 gold.
Contact Egypt and declare war.
Mive Spear and settler out of Rome. Increase Lux to 30%.
Build Embassy in Korea for 43 gold, they have no strategic resources 2 spears defending and are building the Oracle(24 turns).

1. 1275BC Move archer into Rome, lower lux to 10%. Unfortunately, I start building roads in forests near Veii. We have an average military campared to Egypt.

2. 1250BC Rome-worker>warrior. Antium-warrior>worker. Lux to 0%

IBT China completes pyramids.

3. 1225BC Jungle Boogie locates Indias border, they are very close. did we find our 1st victim? move archer out of Veii to join 2 others in Rome. hire clown in Veii. I move Bert into Greece to get a better look at them.

IBT Greece tells us to leave.

4. 1200BC Rome-warrior>warrior. Veii-Spearman>settler. Neapolis-warrior>worker.
Carthage, Egypt and Greece are building the Oracle.
Lux to 20%. have to hire Scientist in Antium, Science to 0%.
Jungle Boogie moves to mountain top next to India, spots spear in town(unknown name) and barb camp just outside there borders.
Found Pompeii on hill NE of Horses next to Greece. start worker.
Move 3 archers out of Rome towards Antium.

5. 1175BC Cumae-warrior>worker.
Carthage completes the Oracle. Jungle Boogie moves towards barb camp. Bert is still inside Greece.

IBT, Greece tells Bert to leave, barb appears W of Cumae.

6. 1150BC Rome-warrior>warrior. Archers arrive in Antium, fire scientist and science to 10%.
Jungle Boogie takes down barb camp for 25 gold
At this point we are either average or strong compared to everyone else militarily.

7. 1125BC Antium-worker>Barracks. Workers finish roads in forests by Veii. 1 moves towards Neapolis, the other towards Antium.
Jungle Boogie moves to Mountain inside India-The city is not the capitol, it is Lahore.
Lux to 10%. Bert continues mapping Greece.

IBT-2 India warriors appear near Lahore.

8. 1100BC Rome-warrior>Spearman(Escort). Worker starts road to hook up Neapolis. Another starts road on game near Antium(Inneficient, I know, follow with Forest chop and Irrigate and it's all good)
Lux to 30%.

IBT-1 Japanese archer and 1 barb appear near Neapolis.

9. 1075BC Neapolis-worker>warrior. move warrior out of Veii and kill barb(promote to Elite). Move another warrior out of Veii towards Neapolis. Archers continue towards India and Jungle Boogie is baiting the India warriors to follow him in that direction.

10. 1050BC Rome-Spearman>settler. Veii-Settler>warrior
Jungle Boogie is with the archers now. Sending Spear and settler towards the fish.

IBT Japanese archer attacks neapolis and kills Spearman.

11. 1025BC Archer in Neapolis kills Japanese archer. Worker completes road to Neapolis, starts mine, another worker moves to wines covered by archer(Look out for more Japanese troops)

The Indian warriors are on the mountain just outside of our vision by Lahore.

Goodluck to you Conehead234, and here is the

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_1025_BC.SAV)

Don't forget to take 11 turns to get us back on track, you should end on turn 90(750BC)

Great turns! We're growing fast.

It took a surprisingly long time for India to find us given how close that town is, and we still haven't seen Egyptian troops. Odd.

Oh, I know some people dislike typing much more than I do, so feel free to call Jungle Boogie "JB".

I couldn't resist opening the save and snapping a couple of screenshots to post:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1025bc-mil.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-1025bc-bigmap.jpg

You know, I was thinking after I had finished and posted that I probably should have posted some screenies, and You put up exactly what 2 I was thinking about, Military and our nation.

Thanks Puppeteer, you read my mind!

Most of our warriors are in the Rome,Veii, Neapolis area.

I think hooking up Iron and horses would be high priorities ATM.

I think the India warriors are in the N corner of Lahore.

I think you guys should consider monarchy. You are going to be in some protracted wars, and you are going to be the aggressor. You should have enough land after you take over India so that money will not be a problem. And perhaps you can talk Greece into forking over a city or five.
Maybe a second revolt to democracy when the crazy "other worlders" are no more. Good luck!

I was considering Monarchy, cause I know we will be ending many turns with our troops in enemy territory. What does the rest of the team think? and also remember that we cannot sign peace with India, Japan and Egypt no matter what. This could be bad if WW kicks in?!

any Thoughts, Suggestions?

Forget Democracy until all the religious civs are wiped off the face of the planet--capitol by capitol.

I originally said Monarchy, but earlier in this thread at least two other players said we could do it with Republic and referred to another SG which I haven't read yet.

If we switch to republic will we instantly jump to WW since we will have been at war for many years, or does WW not build until we first become a representative government?

We're going to have to support a large military, including a large capitol seige army that will well over 20 turns in enemy territory while attacking captiols. And at the moment we can have up to three civs' attacking troops in our territory.

I'll defer to others' experience because I don't know what's best.

EDIT: I just had an idea; I'm sure others have thought of this already: When we're going after a captiol, we could settle cities in enemy territory along the way. This could claim usable road tiles towards the enemy capitol and let our troops heal and remain in our territory more of the time. I'm sure others have already tried this; does it work well? What are the downsides?

I got the save. I might send the archers to a pillaging mission and try to disconnect the indian capital. My next city will proboly be by the silks and cow.

I did my turns.

Preturn (1025BC) - MM rome for more food and gold. Luxs to 20%

IBT- Barb warrior appears to west.

Turn 1 (1000BC) - Veii warrior> Spearman. Cumae worker> worker
Send warrior from Rome to protect worker. See indian settler ALONE. Send archers after it.

IBT- ZZZ

Turn 2 (975BC)- found Pisae. Warrior kills barb. Start road to Cumae. Pisae set to worker.

Kill Indian horseman. LUX to 30%. MM rome for more gold.

IBT- jap warrior and archer appear near Pisae.

Turn 3 (950BC)- Rome Settler to Spear, Neopolis warrior>warrior. Pompeii worker>worker.
Build roads. move warriors near pisae. Find Madras.

IBT- Wines connected. warrior attacked by jap warrior and win. but killed by a jap archer.

archer is redlined.

Turn 4 (925 BC)- elite warrior attacks jap archer. wins but no leader. Elite Bert attacks

jap warrior wins no leader. Attack Indian horse, retreats.

IBT- Bert is killed by jap archer. warrior is killed in south by retreated horse.

Turn 5 (900BC)- more miltary movements, move 2 workers to iron.

IBT- cave to korean demand. Greece found city near silks.

Turn 6 (875 BC)- Rome Spear> settler. Kill indian horse archer promoted to elite

IBT- Rome riots horse connected to Pompeii Chinese start great lIbrary. We need a GL we are

falling behind in techs.

Turn 7 (850BC)- nothing really. find Bombay Sending archers to pillage ivory.

IBT- BUy Philophy from carthage for WM and 60 GOld Antium warrior>warrior Neopolis

warrior>barracks

Turn 8 (825BC) - Find Delhi.

IBT- Lose 2 archers in the south. 3 Egyptian warriors appear near india. Everyone has lit.

We need the TGL.

Turn 9 (800BC)- move last archer near Delhi. Iron hooked upgrade 2 warriors to Legions.

IBT- last archer killed near delhi warrior killed by egyptian warriors

Turn 10 (775 BC)- legions moved for defense

IBt- Barb appears and kills a worker near Cumae. Veii riots

Turn 11 (750 BC)- Move legions for defense


We are falling behind in techs. Most of the civs are building the great library. The iron, horses, and wines are connected. We have 4 legions.

The kills are:
2 Indian horseman,
2 jap warrior
1 jap archer

Loses-
4 warriors
3 archers
1 worker

We had alot of loses but we have legions now. So the tide might turn soon. I think India is the biggest threat now. Found the new city on the spot the setter is on.

Pictures in next post.


Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_750_BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Miltary_750_BC.JPG




http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/world_750_BC.JPG

Got it

Play tomorrow.


Ted

Pre-flight checks... OK

Pre-turn
Check Enemy status
Japan: 6 cities, up Maths, CoL & Map Making, no Iron
India: 8 cities, up Maths, CoL, Lit & Map Making, no Iron
Egypt: 10 cities, up Maths, CoL & Map Making, no Horses
in comparison we have 7 cities, Iron and Horses
Our military is average vs Japan & Egypt, strong vs India

A quick recap of the rules:
1. We are Militaristic, We will conquer the world, our goal is conquest. (We believe that there is nothing greater anywhere than our people and our Roman Empire!!)

2. We are not religious and therefore we do not build Temples, Cathederals or any other Religious Icon or any religious great wonders.
Also, We do not tolerate religious civs!! If we meet a religious civ we are to declare war on them immediately(NO TRADING WITH THEM) and stay at war with them until they are gone.
we can form alliances against them with non religious civs.

The Religious civs are as follow. Arabs, Aztecs, Babylon, Celts, Egyptians, India, Iroquois, Japanese and Spain. these civs are to be declared upon immediately if we meet them.

3. We are the Capitol killers! This means (and probably the most difficult part of this game) that when we go to war with a civ, we can only attack there capitol city until we destroy it. We must only attack capitol cities and raze them(we will keep no cities, only build our own) after the 1st capitol city is gone find where it moved and attack that.

4. You only have to stay at war with religious civs, you can deal with the non religious civs in any way you like, but all wars must stay as Capitol Killers.

The most important item there is that we can form Alliances. I'll try to sign up Greece vs Japan, Carthage vs India and once I figure where Egypt is sign up her neighbour :)
Rome switches to Settler (need more cities)
Cumae switches to Barracks (no more regulars)
Lux 10%
We need to get those Silks & Spices to boost our happiness
MM would cost us 8gpt + WM (Korea, China & Carthage)
I leave it till next turn
Hawk WM for 4gp (we can't afford to buy anyone's WM)

Press button
Legion kills attacking barb Horse
Pisae Worker - Barracks
India starts Great Library (should finish just in time for us to capture it :))

1 - 730BC
Worker (Pisae) road to Veii
Worker Gang (2 NW of Rome) move to SSW Rome (road to Dyes)
Legion (E Cumae) 1E and fort (can support Cumae or Pompeii from here)
Settler & escort SE (better spot & clears jungle)
Legions (near Antium) form Task Force SW Antium
As we have no option for peace with any of the religious AI I suggest we concentrate our efforts on one at a time. I would choose Japan as our first Target as they seem to be weakest. In the meantime it won't hurt to give India some pain.
Rome grows so I switch research to lone Scientist (Rome)
Lux stays at 10%
Looks as if the going rate for MM is WM, 14gp + 7gpt - I wait
Can't afford any alliances
Hawk WM for 4gp

IBT
Pompeii Worker - Barracks
2 Japanes Archers appear to the North of Neapolis' borders (1 elite, 1 reg)

2 - 710BC
Worker (Pompeii) NE
Worker Gang (SSW Rome) road
TFI (Task Force India, 3 Legions) S
Ravenna founded - Barracks (revealing 2 Egytian reg Warriors to the SW and a stack of 3 Carthagian reg Warriors SSE)
Spear & Warrior fort Ravenna
There's a vet Warrior in Veii but I only have 36gp. I've turned off "Cancel Orders for Enemy Combat Unit" as the Worker mining the Horses only has 2 turns left to completion.
Hawk WM for 3gp (Carthage won't play ball and we need that extra 1gp to upgrade the vet Warrior in Veii)
Buy 17gp from Carthage for 1gpt
Veii upgrades vet Warrior (40gp)
Vet Spear (Rome) moves to SSW Veii
2 Reg Warrior (Veii) N & fort

IBT
Alexander demands 16gp - I give it to him as we can't afford any more enemies
Rome Settler - Legion (takes back to pop 5 in 4 turns)
we get the Forbidden Palace message
Egytian Warriors both move N to SW & W Ravenna
Carthagian stack moves W
Carthagian Warrior NE Ravenna
Japanese Archers move S

3 - 690BC
Settler (Rome) to NW Veii
Worker (NE Pompeii) irrigate
Legion (Veii) to SW NEapolis
TFI SW
Spear (SSW Veii) to N Veii
Worker (NE Veii) retreats to Veii
Japanese Archers now face a vet Spear and 2 reg Warriors (both fortified). There is no chance of them taking the position and there's a vet Legion SW of Veii to take out the remains next turn :)
The downside is that the elite Archer might win & generate a GL but we would be on a hiding to nothing if we tried to attack.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-690BC-Neapolis.jpg
Lux 20% (Veii)
Research 10%

IBT
Veii Legion - Settler
Neapolis Barracks - Legion
We kill both Japanese Archers without loss promoting Warrior
Reg Indian Spear appears on hill SW of TFI
Egyptian Warriors join on hill NW of Ravenna
Elite Egyptian Warrior appears 2SW of Ravenna
Carthagian Warrior N

4 - 670BC
Worker (Neapolis) NE
Worker (N Neapolis) SE
Vet Warrior & Spear (N Neapolis) S
Reg Warriors (N & E Neapolis) to NE Neapolis
Legion (SW Neapolis) to Veii
Settler (NW Veii) to 2 SE Veii
Legion Veii 2SW, W
Archer SW
Workers (NW Antium) road - NW (Dyes)
TFI vs Indian Spear - victory & GA - spot Indian Settler/Spear SW
Lux 0% (+29gpt)
We can't get Lit any sooner
Hawk WM for 4gp

IBT
Egypt starts Great Library
Korea starts Colossus
Jaipur founded by the Settler SW of TFI so I can't attack
2 Indian Warriors on mountain NW of Jaipur, in range of TFI
Egyptian Warriors head N ignoring Ravenna

5 - 650BC
TFI vs reg Warrior on mountain - victory (2/4)
TFI vs reg Warrior on mountain - victory (2/4) - spot Indian reg Archer SW
Workers 2 NW of Antium road
Worker Gang (SSW Rome) road - SW (joining other Workers)
Legion (2NE Antium) to NW Antium (joins Workers next turn)
Legion fort Veii
Settler (2SE Veii) SE
Archer SW (E Pisae)
Worker (NE Neapolis) road
Worker (NE Neapolis) mine
Warriors (NE Neapolis) fort
Hawk WM for 4gp
Alliances are too expensive at the moment

IBT
Vet Spear (Ravenna) kills attacking elite Warrior (Egypt)
Indian reg Archer moves to Jaipur
Antium Legion - Legion
The people love me - I add some steps to the Palace
Bejing (China) completes the Great Wall

6 - 630BC
Legion (NW Antium) NW to Workers
Settler (W Pisae) to E Pisae
Legion (Antium) to SW Rome (preparation for taking out the 2 Egyptian Warriors who are surely heading for our Iron SE of Cumae. I'll use the Legion 2NW of Rome as part of the plan, letting the Warriors arrive on the Iron then wipiing them out)
TFI regroups NW Jaipur
Hawk WM for 3gp (Carthage won't pay)
Buy MM from Carthage for 15gp + 7gpt
Upgrade vet Warrior (Neapolis)

IBT
Egyptian reg Warriors are now S of Cumae
Indian Archer (Jaipur) moves North
Rome Legion - Settler
Greece starts Great Library

7 - 610BC
Dyes are hooked up
TFI vs reg Archer (India, N Jaipur) - victory & promotion to elite (3/5)
Worker (NE Pompeii) irrigate - road
Legion (Neapolis) to NW Veii (allow onward chain to follow Settler)
Settler (E Pisae) E
Archer (E Pisae) E
Legion (Rome) 2NW & fort (Rapid Response Force)
Legion (2NW Rome) to Cumae & fort (want to make sure Egyptian Warriors move to Iron hill)
Legion (SW Rome) to E Cumae
Worker Gang (3, 2NW Antium) road - road to 2SW (linking Ravenna) with Legion as escort
Hawk WM for 4gp
Buy Code of Laws from China (annoyed) for 2gp + 6gpt
Buy Maths from Korea (polite) for 17gp + 4gpt
Japan & Egypt dont have Currency yet so it's still too expensive to buy. I don't want our income to fall below +10gpt.

IBT
Legion kills attacking Egyptian Warrior (Cumae)
Discover Literature - Republic
Veii Settler - Legion
Reports of a massive barb uprising near Pisae
Indian Horse appears SW of Jaipur

8 - 590BC
Settler & Legion (Veii) E, NE
Legion (NW Veii) to Veii & fort
Settler & Archer (2E Pisae) E
Worker (NE Neapolis) road - mine
Legion (E Cumae) W, attack reg Warrior (Egypt) - victory (1/4)
TFI NW
Hawk WM for 3gp (Korea doesn't want it)
Legion (Cumae) S to cover injured Legion

IBT
2 Japaness Spears appear (2N & 2N1NE Neapolis)

9 - 570BC
Legions (S Cumae) N
TFI fort (to heal)
Settler/Legion NE
Hispalis founded (3E of Pisae) to claim Spices - Warrior (barb camp 2 N)
Archer (Hispalis) N
Worker Gang (3, ENE Ravenna) road - SW
Workers (2, ENE Ravenna) to E Antium (road to Hispalis)
Worker (WNW Pisae) to E Pisae (road to Hispalis)
Hawk WM for 3gp (China abstains)
Can't quite afford Currency yet

IBT
Japan wants Peace - "I want your Capital" I reply. He slinks off, muttering.
China demands TM + 22gp - "Have it" I say, "Why not take my blanket and pillows too"
Indian Settler/Spear spotted 2W of Cumae
Indian vet Archer appears on mountain NW of Jaipur
2 barb Horse pop up ENE of Hispalis
Rome Settler - Legion
Neapolis Legion - Legion
Pompeii Barracks - Legion

10 - 550BC
Worker (NE Pompeii) road - W
Settler (Rome) to NW Antium
Workers (2, E Antium) to SW Veii
Legion (1/4, Cumae) fort to heal
Vet Legion (Neapolis) vs reg Spear - victory & promotion
Workers (2, NE Neapolis) mine - 3SW
Reg Warriors (2, NE Neapolis) NW (join Legion) & fort
Settler/Legion NE - spot barb Horse E & Japanese vet Archer NNW
Worker (E Pisae) road to Hispalis
Looks as if the upcoming action will be in the East so:
Legion (Cumae) 2 E & fort (RRF)
Legion (2NW Rome) to SE Rome
Legion (Veii) to W Pisae
Legion (E Ravenna) SW (to join TFI)
I leave the Archer move to the next player (see notes below).

Our Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC.jpg

Our Surroundings
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC-zs.jpg

1600*1200 (103K) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC-zl.jpg)

Continued...

Notes
We're progressing quite well overall.
We need Currency desperately to: build Markets to support our troops; build Libraries to increase our Research pace and to allow us to switch to Republic when researched. The current price is WM, 77gp + 8gpt from Korea, China or Carthage. Greece want WM, 67gp + 9gpt. It would be a mistake to start building Libraries before Markets as it would bottom out our economy.
The Settler (NW Antium) has no escort but Antium will provide a Legion next turn. I suggest he carries on SE to the coast as the only way we're going to improve our WM is through coastal exploration.
On a similar note Pisae could use a Harbour soon to maximise the Fish resource.

Hispalis Under Threat
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC-Hispalis.jpg
I see two choices: we can attack the barb camp and let the barb Horse pillage (or destroy) Hispalis or we can send the Archer back to Hispalis to try and defend it against 2 barb Horse. There's a vet Spear & elite Warrior in Pisae but they would take 3 turns to get there. If the next player decides to let the barbs have Hispalis then be sure to spend the money in the treasury first.

TFI (Task Force India)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC-TFI.jpg
Currently healing NNW of Jaipur. I've sent another Legion to join them in their crusade against India.
We have 2 elite Legions, one in TFI and another N of Neapolis.
I killed 10 enemy units without loss

Remember, only fight the battles you can win.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-550BC.zip)


Ted

Nice turns Ted

Yes, we do need alliances, you said they are too expensive, that is better than they were during my turns, I could'nt even get them to put anything on the table.

You stated that India started the Great library and it should be finished in time for us to capture it, only 1 problem with that, we have top raze every city and only build our own. So, hopefully we can keep close in techs by trading while at war with the religious ones.

good luck generilissimo.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
You stated that India started the Great library and it should be finished in time for us to capture it, only 1 problem with that, we have top raze every city and only build our own. So, hopefully we can keep close in techs by trading while at war with the religious ones. I was still in 'Vanilla' Civ mode at that point :D


Ted

Good turns, TedJackson.

A couple of notes: The Legionaires fortified/healing in the jungle are in danger of dying of disease. I lost quite a few Legionaires building a Maginot Line in a jungle before I figured that out. I'm paranoid enough that I'd move them out of the jungle to refortify and heal if it were my turn, or possibly just unfortify them and pass their moves each turn--do they still heal that way?

Can barbs destory a city? I know they can destroy the shield box and take money. The horses can't attack next IT, though, because jungle movement penalty is too high. The archer could retreat to Hispalis, attack one horse next turn and hope to win and then defend against one horse. But there's still the option of taking out the camp and letting them pillage our small jungle town, but then I'd be afraid the barb would detour and go after our worker.

For the next city, it would still be nice to expand towards Japan's captiol. We're fairly close to Delhi, but Kyoto is a long march away through enemy territory. We can assure one or two turns' shorter march if we plop a city between Neapolis and the nearest Japanese city and extend our road. We *might* even poach the incense after getting a library, but I wouldn't count on it.

These thoughts are all off the top of my head and thrown out for consideration. There may well be better alternatives.

I wasn't aware of units dying in jungle. Perhaps it's just never happened to me.

Units have to be fortified in friendly/neutral territory to heal. Later, if we build Battlefield Medicine, they can also heal in enemy territory but still must be fortified.

I ssem to remember having barbs destroy a town before though. It's up to Generalissimo as to what to do there.

I forgot to mention that there's a Settler/Legion 3N of Pisae who should probably setttle on spot.


Ted

Originally posted by TedJackson
I wasn't aware of units dying in jungle. Perhaps it's just never happened to me. It was many months ago when I was first trying Civ3 with a borrowed copy of Civ3/PTW--I don't recall what patch level. But the manual and/or civilopedia mention the disease dangers of cities on floodplains, units fortified in jungles, workers working in jungles and I think even citizens working FP or jungle are in danger. I don't recall losing a unit to jungle since that 4-wide, 2-4 unit per square fortified line, but I remember it felt like they were dropping like flies--then again I don't think I've ever fortified a unit in jungle since then.

Originally posted by TedJackson
Units have to be fortified in friendly/neutral territory to heal. Later, if we build Battlefield Medicine, they can also heal in enemy territory but still must be fortified.Okay, I wasn't sure about if fortifiying was absolutely necessary of if passing would work. It's almost always easier to fortify, anyway. (I actually tried to look this up a couple of days ago and couldn't find healing in the manual or Civilopedia.)

EDIT: To clarify, after deciding I liked Civ3 I bought it properly and played vanilla until very recently when I bought PTW.

I peeked at the save but will resist embedding more pics. (But I'll link to them ;) )

Good News: Our military & worker force is looking really strong (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-550bc-mil.jpg) (65k).

Bad News: Our people are admirers of the Greek cultural achievments (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-550bc-culture.png) (19k culture histograph, quote is from trade advisor but mercifully no screenshot).

I'm very paranoid about the Greek culture. And my interpretation of the rules is that we can't take our towns back (whether culture-flipped or conquered) unless it happens to be an enemy captiol. (EDIT 2: Rather, we can't take it back, but we can only raze it and resettle when it becomes the enemy captiol.) I'm no culture-flip expert, but I fear that Pompeii is in immediate danger.

Edit: Am I overreacting, or should we start an offensive on Athens soon?

There are two problems with declaring on Greece.

1) We are already at war with three other Civs :)

2) The Greek UU is the Hoplite (3 defense) so as soon as we lose a battle with a Hoplite we trigger their GA :)

It might well be that they are in their Golden Age already which would explain their sudden rise.


Ted

<lurk mode off>
I see you guys were extorted twice in the last set of turns. That means you are weak in thier eyes. The fact that you won't be razing any cities soon due to your capital rule will only enforce that in thier eyes. You had better get those guys on your side soon, regardless of cost, or you will be looking at the 'mother of all dogpiles'. :lol:

Just my 2 cents worth.
Matt

<lurk mode on>

I would also not worry about greece, instead we need to make them a friend. We really don't need to goto war with anyone else ATM, and we really do need some friends, I would say to pay the price soon or we may pay the ultimate price later.

just my thoughts.

That's the fun of Civ. There are always too many things to be done and not enough resources to do them :)

I started my turns intending to sign Alliances & attack Japan. But I couldn't buy Alliances initially and our Troops were in the South so I bought techs and attacked India instead. Once I started down that road it would have been counter-productive to switch.

I've come to the conclusion that buying Currency ASAP is the right thing to do (and wished I'd done it during my turns) as we're almost at the point where our empire will really start to take off.

Our GA has come a little early but it will help us get to the Middle Ages sooner and allow us to start building culture once we have Markets.


Ted

Okay, It has been more than 24 hours. So, I Pm'ed Generalissimo, and noticed that he has not posted since the 23rd and it is closing in on 48 hours. So I let him know in a PM that if he has not responded by 8AM (ET) then the next person is up in the game and Generalissimo can jump back in at his turn.

So, Puppeteer, If there is no response by 8am ET tomorrow, then go ahead and post a gotit!

Tahnks, OFW!

I won't play before Sunday night, so I'll wait until then to pick it up if Generalissimo doesn't get it.

In case the forum has problems, I'll say this now: Consider my "got it" effective 11pm Eastern time (4am UTC) if Generalissimo doesn't post a "got it" before then. I already have the save.

I'm open to suggestions. My tendency would be to focus on libraries and defense, but I'm working on becoming more aggressive with expansion and offense.

I know we have troops in India. If plausible I'll go for a capitol raze; if not then I'll just wreak some havoc and stunt their growth.

Since I'm so paranoid about Greek culture I'm likely to try to put a Library in Pompeii soon. I'd like more workers, Legionaires and cash. Should I continue to settle new cities in our second ring as long as the space is available?

I don't think we can get the Great Library without a leader as everyone's already building it. But if I get a leader the GL will be top priority.

Should we start building the FP? Delhi's or Kyoto's site might be a good place for it if we manage to raze a capitol, settle and have a leader (after the GL), but otherwise I'm thinking Neapolis would set up a decent ring and then in the future we can move the palace to the ruins of Japan or India.

I would like to add, that we do not have embassy's in Carthage or China, and we may want them so we have the option to form alliances with them.

I was also thinking we may want to get the FP started. not sure where though.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-450bc-world-at-war.jpg
EDIT: Note that this screenshot is from 450BC, not the 350BC save, so I'm not sure if the all leaderheads represent the correct age the civ is in.

Objectives: As discussed above. Make nice with Greece. Greece is our buddy, our pal. Will largely play reactively this round I think.

Pre-turn check: Wow, the military and workforce is lookin' good! And two settlers! Cool! Mil: Avg to Japan and Egypt, strong to India. Turn off "Always Renegotiate Deals", again. Isn't that bad to leave it on? Deals: (17) 4gpt to Korea; (17) 6gpt to China; (12/16) 1/7gpt to Carthage. Embassies in Korea and Greece. 2 horses, 1 iron, 1 wine and 1 dye. Hispalis not connected, and no trade routes to other civs. Sci 10%, lux 0. Researching Republic in 38 turns. We have contact with all other civs. Locate settlers and double check turn log to see where the S settler is heading; think about it and agree that SE coast is probably best bet for this guy. (Thought about settling NE of Neapolis, but that city wouldn't do much except be a roadway until the industrial ages.) Turn back on "Cancel Orders for Enemy Combat Unit". Looks like we're about 6 turns into a GA.
Okay, the GA may help us get a leg-up on building maketplaces & libraries; barracks are already in almost all cities or about to complete. I don't have a force big enough to head for Delhi yet, but there's an Indian settler pair to the West I'll try to capture, plus it's a good excuse to get those Legionaries out of the jungle--you know I'm paranoid they'll get diseased.

Turn 0: 550BC: Wake 3 hurt (4/5, 3/4, 3/4) Legionaries in the jungle and move them west to intercept settler pair. Buy currency from Greece (our buddies) for 67g, 9gpt; they're still cautious; maybe I shoulda paid some extra. Change Rome to Marketplace (13); also Veii (15) and Pompeii. Queue market for Antium. MM Pompeii for growth in 4 since they're pop 1. Move archer back to Hispalis for barb horse battle. Wake Veii spear and move him on road between Neapolis & Veii, just in case. (Have Japanese troops near Neapolis and Veii is happy w/no MP.) Change Hispalis to scientist and move Sci to 0, save 5gpt & still have Republic in 38. End turn...

IT: Japan fights invsible enemies (barbs I presume) & gets an elite 3/5 archer. Carth horse (originally thought it was Egypt-whew) from blackness kills barb horse just E of our east settler. Egypt reg sword and reg warrior pop up next to our India task force. India settler pair moves North--probably can't catch them. Antium Legion-Market. Cumae Barracks-Market.

1: 530 BC: I'm not sure why the 2 workers are in the forrest near Neapolis; check TJ's turn log, no info, but I suppose they're there to road for commerce bonus. 2 workers start road. 5/5 Legionary attacks Japan reg spear; wins losing 1hp. Settle Viroconium, start Forbidden Palace; fortify vet Legionary as garrison. Um, where'd the barb horses by Hispalis go? I missed them in the IT, but they're gone now. Archer N towards camp. Legion/settler SE towards coast. Decide to risk combat w/wounded Legionaries for possible leader: 3/4 L attacks reg sword--bad idea, loses and sword promotes to 3/4. Other two wounded rendevouz with a 4/4 Legion 1 tile to N. Pompeii worker-irrigate FP.

IT: Indians ask for peace. Heh. Ravenna Barracks-Market. Chinese start Colossus. Greece reg warrior enters our territory on hill NW of Ravenna :hmm:. Heh, Egypt only advanced the reg warrior and not the 3/4 sword :evil:.

2: 510 BC: Everything we have won't buy an alliance w/Greece vs. Japan. 4/5 Legionary attacks Egypt reg warrior in forrest: WOOOHOOOO! [dance] Great Library, HERE WE COME! Great Leader Trajan makes it as far as Antium, will rush GL in Rome next turn. (3 workers built road this turn to allow 1-turn move between Antium & Ravenna--had no idea it would come in handy this soon.) Rest of TFI moves to cover 3/5* "da MAN". Settler pair S, finds reg India archer. 2 workers start road on BG towards Viroconium. Reg archer attacks barb conscript warrior in camp in jungle: loses, barb has 1hp :(. Rome changed to Legionary in 1. Shuffle other Legions a bit. Hmmm, Greece is annoyed with us--Ack! They're up Republic, Construction and Polytheism. Oh yeah, no prob in 2 turns. Gift them 13g, but they're still annoyed. Hmmm. Move elite warrior from Pisae towards Hispalis for garrison. (BTW, I decided to build the GL in Rome because I figure it's the city least likely to be lost even though I don't plan on losing any.)

IT: Hee hee hee, Egypt offers us peace for the wonderful deal of 23g plus 20 easy payments of just 5gpt! Rudely dismissed. 4/4 Egypt sword attacks our 4/4 Legion in forrest--or at least I think they did, because they died, but our guy wasn't so much as scratched. Greece warrior moves NE, now in hill tile N of Ravenna. 4 barb horses appear 2 tiles E of Hispalis! Rome Legionary->hmmm, let's see...Great Library? Pisae Barracks-Legionary (a bit corrupt for Market right now).

3: 490 BC: Looks like we, Egypt and Japan are the only ones still in the ancient age. Vet Legion of settler pair attacks India reg archer on plains: you're kidding, right? Legion dies leaving archer at 2/3; that's okay, RNG, give me that and a leader anytime. Settler retreats N. Legion is close enough to cover Settler in case India has a horse nearby (um, duh, I know they didn't because I could/can see 2 tiles around the settler). Trajan hurries Great Library in Rome. 3-worker team starts mine on BG between Ravenna & Antium. TFI fortifies in forrest to heal two members. Fire the scientist in Hispalis--shoulda done that last turn, but it's just 1 food pt gained.

IT: India and China form military alliance against us :(. Rome Great Library :D :band: [dance] - market. India cascades and completes Colossus in Bangalore. Other Wonder initiations. 4 barb horses threaten Hispalis. Encroaching Greece warrior continues NE along hills. 2 Carthage warriors move into forrest just W of worker irrigiating FP by Pompeii. Pompeii grows to size 2. Antium and Veii grow to 4.

4: 470 BC: We're militarily average compared to China. Alliance w/Greece against Japan is prohibitively expensive, everything we have against China and impossible against India (?). Carthage is cautious and we have a strong military compared to them; I think they're just barb hunting. MM Pompeii for shields now to finish out GA. Heh, just realized the Chinese broke our 6gpt (to them) deal about 13 turns early. Suckers. Without haggling, sell WM to Carthage, Greece and Korea for 1g each. Doesn't change attitudes, but notice that Korea is polite. I could get them to fight China for 57g and 13gpt (before haggling). I'm worried about Greece, though. 2 workers complete road, move N to complete road to Viroconium. The RNG has been feast or famine lately, but vet Legion of settler pair attacks India vet archer in forrest: feast this time as we win losing 1hp. Move another legion to cover settler who stays put due to archer threatening victorious legion's position. 2 workers complete road in forest, split to road grasslands for Neapolis and Veii towards Viroconium for. Having trouble deciding whether to leave Hispalis to the barbs or throw our elite warrior in there...what the heck, throw him to the barbs, maybe they'll retreat again. Build embassy w/Carthage for 48g. They have 2 iron, 1 horse and 5 furs hooked up. Colosseum, Oracle, building Library in 8, +2fpt, 9spt, 11 commerce pt, 4 numidian mercenary as garrison. Split up TFI for southern defense since I seem to be in infra mode right now. MM Cumae and Antium for shields, hopefully making the most of our GA.

IT: CRUD! Korea and China sign MA against us. :eek: 4 barb horses PHEAR our unfortified elite warrior in Hispalis and wander north (crazy barbs). Greece warrior continues NE. Carthage warriors divert N and stay out of our territory. GL teaches us: Polytheism, Construction, Monotheism, Engineering, ... uh, where's Republic? I thought two of them had it; guess I was wrong. Neapolis: Legion-Legion. Wonder initiations. Rome grows to size 5.

5: 450 BC: Um, okay, we have Republic...I missed the popup IT. I'm not going to revolt during my turns since I'm playing during a Golden Age. And I don't want to lose the bonus shields & commerce, limited as they are by despotism. (Not to mention 5 nations are at war with us.) I'm trying to get Carthage to pay us gpt for alliance and/or tech but 1gpt for Republic and Mono would "never accept", so I guess they're running at 0gpt. Greece is at tech parity so I only have money to get him on our side. Carthage lacks Mono and Republic but only has 27g and won't pay us gpt. Hmm, I'll move the units first then play diplomacy. Workers everywhere begin roading. Vet archer of new settler pair attacs India reg archer on plains: wins losing 2hp, settler follows to SE. Barb-scaring elite warrior fortifies in Hispalis. Fortify 3/4 legion in forrest as reg archer threatens well-defended Antium. Okay, ally with Carthage against India, Japan and Egypt for his WM and 27g and we kick in Republic and Monotheism. Thought about RoP, but decided against it so he wouldn't clog up our roads attacking Japan, and we don't need to tromp through his lands anytime soon. Hannibal is gracious now, and our WM is almost 100% complete except for the jungles east of us. Alexander sure likes them Indians, but I can get him to fight Japan or Egypt. I can't decide whether to sic him on the nearby Japan or send him on a long trek against Egypt; they cost the same. I think we can handle Japan for now, and I don't want Alexander to get any more land, so I'm sic'ing him on far-by-land but close-by-sea Egypt. After all my main goal is to prevent him from attacking us. Ally with Greece against Egypt for 54g and 18gpt, the lowest gpt I can affort. I worry about that amount after the GA ends, but hopefully the markets will bail us out. Besides, I'd worry a lot more if Greece dogpiled on top of us. Oh yeah, we'll also gain goal from tech sales, especially after we make peace w/China and Korea, so I think we'll be okay. Greece is now polite! Yay! My goodness, F4 is a mess of red and dotted orange lines!

IT: India archers retreat towards home! But one fortifies. 4 barb horses move SE away from everything I know they could attack (?); judging by my recent WM there may be a galley that way that could have dropped someone off for them to attack. Carth units move towards southern hemisphere; they'll probably tromp through our territory. Palace expansion--how 'bout a second floor?

6: 430 BC: Freshly healed vet legion attacks India reg archer fortified on plains: win, but ow! 1hp left. Settler/legion pair stay put so legion can heal, another legion approaches to take over escort duty. Minor shuffling.

IT: 4 barb horses continue SE...somebody must've landed down there; I'm guessing Egypt or maybe China.

7: 410 BC: Virconium connected to roadnet; 2 workers start irrigating BG (yeah, I know) to work towards irrigating Viroconium & its wheat. Other workers start irrigating plain and mining BG by Ravenna. Advance settler and 3/4 legion S since the coast looks clear (bad pun not intended). Notice that I probably should've peeled a worker off of Rome before restarting market, but too late now. Change Pisae to worker in 1. China & Korea don't want to talk yet.

IT: All 4 barb horses die very, very quickly attacking whoever landed in the jungle to our east. (Hoplites?) Carth settler pair heading for where our settler wants to settle. Pisae worker-legion.

8: 390 BC: Settle Lugdunum; not necessarily my first choice of placement, but it's on the coast and I think Carthage may have settled first if I moved again. (They were on forrest tile between game and Lugdunum. Set prod to warrior. Fortify 1/4 legion in Antium to heal. Worker finishes irrigating FP, starts irrigating horse. New worker moves to continue road to Hispalis through jungle (and hook up spices); thought he'd have a work buddy but the buddy will lag a turn as he just finished his road this turn. Other unremarkable moves. China & Korea still not talking.

IT: Notice a second Carth settler pair moving north briefly through our sight from our far western territory. Neapolis legion-market. Hispalis warrior-warrior. Rome grows to 6.

9: 370 BC: Workers start roads here and there. Irrigation by Ravenna finished, swap some tiles in Ravenna & Antium. Rome's not happy; I almost forgot to check. It hurts 6gpt, but I bump lux to 10% so as not to slow down Rome's production. Enemies nuveau still not talkin'.

IT: Wonder initiations. India sending settler pair at Lugdunum! :evil:

10: 350 BC: China & Korea still won't talk. Second worker starts roading spices, finish in 4. I'm leaving a worker pair move for the next player. Only moved 3 or 4 units on my last turn. Everyone else was busy or fortified.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-350bc-mil.jpg

I'm thrilled to have gotten the GL. I hate that we got dogpiled a bit, but luckily Greece didn't jump on before I mortgaged our empire with him, and Carthage is our puppy dog for now.

I'm not sure about the rest of my turns...I turtled a bit and only added one worker, no settlers, and not much military. Then again I'm building markets (with our GA bonus shields) to support our future libraries and military (and, as it turns out, my bank-breaking deal with Greece), so hopefully I did the right thing. Also it took forever to settle the second city because of bad RNG luck, but I'm not going to complain because I got a leader. The RNG was almost all-or-nothing in my turns. Japan was a non-issue this turn as they seemed to be busy chasing barbs. I did kill a spear of theirs, though. India tried an offensive but chickened out after Carthage--their neighbor--declared on them. We killed two Egyptian troops, one of them giving us Trajan. Until my last turn I didn't see any Chinese or Korean troops, but there is a Chinese warrior on the mounain by Jaipur, India.

Important troop notes: There is an Indian spear/settler pair that foolishly approaches Lugdunum which now has two legions. Several Carthage troops are in our lands; we don't have RoP but are allied, so I'm not worried about it. All but the settler pairs are heading south. A vet Japanese archer just appeared east of Viroconium this last IT, and I moved a quick-response legion into Viroconium in anticipation. Japan has an elite archer somewhere out there, but not threatening us as far as I know. We have a legion at the far east of our territory in the jungle. There is somebody to the east near the coast, and whoever they are they tore through those barb horses like a hot knife through butter. I was going to see who it is. Our troops are scattered about defensively, most of them can get to two or three towns in one turn. Some towns have 2 garrison, and Antium has 3 because a legion was healing.

There are now 2 Korean and one Indian towns at our Western border. I haven't seen troops from them yet.

We have about 4 turns left in our GA. We are paying a ton of GPT to Greece (and some more to Carthage), so think carefully before revolting to Republic or spending money elsewhere and keep in mind the GA will end in about 4 turns. Hopefully we can get some new tech out of the GL and broker our way into peace (with China and Korea only) and more gold to keep paying Greece.

Outstanding deals: Carthage: (2) 1gpt and (6) 7gpt/ (15) Alliance against all 3 religious civs. Greece: (10) 9gpt; (10) 9gpt; (15) 18gpt to them for alliance against Egyptians. I mainly wanted them to not attack us, but Japan is one civ that hasn't scared me yet, and I'd rather not have Greece taking over Japan or they may become unstoppable.

Man, Greece has some nice lands! We'll have dyes over him, but he has everything else that we have or can get soon. Greece is the monster civ and our long-term problem beyond the religious civs.

I think I uncovered a few tiles with that east legion, so our WM might be worth a tiny bit of gold, but we only have 2 civs to sell to for now.

I'm tired. That's all I can think of for now.

Oh yeah, the FP is started in Viriconium, but it's building slow enough it can be vetoed with no waste. But I think it may be a good place to build it and then later move our palace to Japan or India when the time is right.

Also, I don't recall if I mentioned it, but even if I didn't you probably noticed I only formed alliances against the religious civs which we won't make peace with anway.

LOL, I was about to hit submit and realized I haven't linked to the save. Man I'm tired.

OFW2_350BC.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_350BC.SAV)

Good turns that was good luck to get the great library. Who is next? I think we should try to KO India then turn our attention to Japan. When we attack we should bring some settlers along to replace the razed cities.

Great news on the GL & the GL :D :goodjob:

Turn off "Always Renegotiate Deals", again. Isn't that bad to leave it on? Most players prefer this to be on so that they don't get caught with their trousers round their ankles when a lux deal expires and the whole empire riots :)

It might be an idea for the next player to see if he can get an MA with Greece vs China or Korea. This would have the added benefit of slowing Greeece's growth.


Ted

$.02 here: if you guys go republic, in the best case scenario you will be forced to go with 20% luxuries very soon for a looooooong time. How many turns will you need to be at war to conquer Egypt? One hundered? More? By having to kill the capital, you will need to send troops deep into the center of your enemies territories. You will be turning down peace. You will be losing at least some troops. You don't get any religious happiness buildings.

If you go Republic, you will only need to switch again to Monarchy 40 turns later.

You have a nice promising start. With all due respect, I don't see how you will win if you go and stick with Republic.

Good luck in any case.

@schadenfreude: That was my initial assesment, but Ted Jackson makes a case for Republic here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1306461#post1306461) with a reference--which I still haven't read but intend to--to another SG. I could've sworn one or two others on the team expressed similar sentiment, but I can't find those posts now. We should have marketplaces and 3 luxes quite soon, but we can't build happy temples or cathedrals but only colusseums for happiness now. We can't build religious wonders, either, and I think most if not all of the happy wonders are religious.

By the way, Monarchy is the only ancient age tech we lack, and I'm not aware that anyone has it yet. I'd expect a tech or two soon, but all the wars may have slowed down the tech pace.

@Ted: Alliance with Greece against Korea or China? I see two problems with that: One is that we are in danger of not making enough gpt to continue paying Greece on the current deal after the GA ends in about 4 turns, and two is that if we form an alliance against a nonreligious civ we lose a tech broker potential for 20 turns or break our rep. I'm thinking we should milk the GL for every bit of gold and MA we can. I was hoping to make peace with Korea and China ASAP and possibly even sic them on our religious enemies if we can do it with tech bribes.

I'm thinking like conehead234 now: Take out India while everyone else is fighting each other, then go after Japan. But most of our core cities are still working the last few turns of a marketplace, and the next player will need to watch money carefully as the GA ends and our huge gpt deals continue.

I really hated to commit 18gpt to Greece for 20 turns, but I was afraid of a worldwide dogpile on us and needed Greece either dead or on our side. And I had too much bubble gum to start kicking.....


@Ted again: Don't the peace treaties pop up every 20 turns when "Always Renegotiate" is on? That's the big thing I don't want as I hate being locked in treaties longer than necessary. If a lux deal ends, do you have the ability to scroll ahead to hire clowns or raise lux slider if you can't renegotiate? If "always renegotiate" is the norm then I'll leave it on so as not to annoy my team, but I thought having it off was "normal".

I said it might be an idea. The situation changes with every turn. I suggested it in case it hadn't occurred to Generalissimo or whoever plays next.

The point about "Always Renegotiate" is that it gives you the opportunity to renew deals. It doesn't mean those deals are automatically renewed. You choose whether or not to renew, renegotiate the terms or cancel the deal at that point.

Hope that explains it for you.

As an aside, I still think Republic will be better for us than Monarchy.


Ted

Maybe if it is too hard to march into Delhi we can build some galleys and land a dozen legions by the captial. Just a plan that could also work for Egypt. India's and Egypt's captials are by the coast so it could work and maybe later we can do the same thing to China.

If you are around Generilissimo, then go ahead and play next. Otherwise I can pick up the game and play on Thursday.

Conehead, I think that's a great idea. Much better than marching through half of India before attacking the capitol.

Ted, I didn't mean to sound argumentative. I'm probably the least experienced player on the team, and I explain my ideas to open them up for criticism so I can learn, and I'm learning a lot very quickly. I am worried that I created a situation where the next player will come up short of money once the GA ends, and that's my fault so I keep making suggestions on how to correct it. But I took your suggestion of prioritizing marketplaces, and that may prevent us from coming up short. If you hadn't made that suggestion I probably would've built more troops and finished some libraries before the marketplace builds and then we'd really be in a cash emergency and/or a under a worldwide dogpile. As it is now two or more markets will finish before the GA ends, so maybe I'm worrying for nothing.

I'm sorry about the horrendous spelling in the turnlog. I do know how to spell rendezvous, among other things, but I was apparently very tired that night.

Some other babbling thoughts: The AIs seem to have recently decided to settle all the remaining unclaimed territory. Japan is curiously smaller than everyone else yet has had ample opportunity to settle between us and them or in the jungle. Has our earliest war with them stunted their growth that badly? The barb beheavior has been very odd towards me this game; I've never seen them chicken out so much, especially 2 horsemen turning away from a town defended by an archer and 4 horsemen retreating from an unforitied warrior defending a town. Contrast that to other SGs where barb warriors attack cities defended by several fortified mech infantry :crazyeye: .

I finally read MB3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62244&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=1) that Ted referenced promoting Republic. It's a great early diety domination win, but the wars against any one civ didn't last terribly long whereas we're at war with 3 civs until they're gone. (My understading of WW is that it is tracked per-enemy-civ and clears after 20 turns of peace.)

I don't fully understand how we're going to handle Republic through dozens if not a couple hundred turns of offensive war with troops frequently in enemy territory, but I'm fine with going Republic if Ted and others think it's best. (It's interesting to note that Ted lobbied for Monarchy in MB3; he's obviously sold on the benefits of Republic now.)

The markets and our third lux will help a lot. Colusseums are now available, too.

Okay, guys I got the game, but I don't know if it will be possible for me to play my turns before the weekend, then I will be busy until tuesday(gotta go have some halloween party fun with my girlfriend on Friday and saturday and I also am working alot of OT ATM)

I will try to play my turns tomorrow and I hope to post, If not I will let ya know by friday.

I have not looked at the save, but I would think that if we had 7 legionarys to head into India, I think we could get to the capitol and knock it out.

if we had 7 legionarys to head into India, I think we could get to the capitol and knock it out. I think we have 5-8 legionaries along our sourthern border with India and several others fortified on roads as quick-response defenders. I was playing paranoid defense, but I think everyone is occupied in other battles now, so your plan may work very well and should take less than three turns to stack the invasion force. The market builds should start finishing by then so you can start making reinforcements, too.

Some of the legions are in Antium and the new SE coastal town.

OneFastWarrior do you have the save if you can't do the turns i will do them.

I played my ten turns and I don't have time tonight to post my report. It was not the greatest set of turns, Kinda tough.

I will be posting in the morning(pst) and i'll have the save for ya then. Sorry for the delay.

O ok i hope nothing bad happened like greece attacking us.

Okay, I am really hung over today. that is why I did not get this done earlier.

Preturn, I tell the 2 workers left for me to build mine where they just finished the road. and I need to wait till a couple cities finish marketplaces to move troops into what I would like to do.

IBT Carthage and India settler pairs are in our south., We learn Monarchy.

1. 330BC Attack India Settler pair kill spear and get 2 workers. China wants too much for peace and Korea won't talk. Change Hispalis to worker.

IBT Numerous China warriors and a settler pair appear near our borders.

2. 310BC Rome Marketplace>Legionary.
Veii Marketplace>Legionary
kill reg china warriorand vet china archer
upgrade 1 warrior to Legionary(Iknow these are only regular warriors, but I would rather have a regular Legionary than a pitiful warrior)

IBT China troops move towards us, 5 Jap archers appearnear Hispalis.

3. 290BC Lugdunum warrior>galley
Kill china spear get 2 workers from settler.
kill 2 china warriors, 1 India archer, and 1 Jap archer.
China and Korea still want too much but I really want to get 1 or both of these wars stopped.

IBT India horse appears and attacks elite Da Man and we lose without even hurting the horse. Jap archer SOD attacks legionary outside Hispalis, we kill 2 archers and a warrior, then an archer kills our legionary/

4. 270BC Antium Marketplace>legionary
Legionary kills China warrior
upgrade another warrior.

IBT our golden age has ended:sad: We lose another Legionary to an India Horse.

5. 250BC Rome Legionary>Legionary
China wants ravenna for peace and Korea wants Cumae(of course I tell them to get out of my site and don't come back till you can reason while not smoking opium)

IBT Egypt and carthage sign a peace treaty, lose 2 workers previosly captured to a horse near India.

6. 230BC Veii Legionary>Settler
Kill 2 India horses.
Sign MA with Carthage against India and get 6 gold.
I know this may seem abit insane, but I want China to go away I give them 36 gold and 8gpt to end this war, This also ended the alliance that they had with India and Korea, Korea still wants too much but we have seen no Korean military and they are only strangely annoyed with us(I have never seen anyone be anything other than furious with me while at war???)

IBT Japan and Carthage sign peace treaty. Jap archer attacks Hispalis, Legionary wins and promotes to Elite.

7. 210BC Kill India archer and horse. just troop shuffling, a couple Jap Spears come out of greece, apparantly to pillage is my guess, 2 Legionarys are dispatched to protect the land.

IBT Kill India Horse, Jap Sword and archer, lose Legionary and warrior in Hispalis. Egyptian swords and warriors appear near ravenna. more greek troops are headed in there way.

8. 190BC Rome Legionary>Horsemen
Antium Legionary>Legionary
More troop shuffling.

IBT Egypt Sword kills Greek warrior. Egytp attacks Ravenna, we kill sword and warrior and Legionary promotes to Elite.

9. 170BC Just troop shuffling, to hopeful;ly protect Hispailis, but now we have an undefended city further north.

IBT Carthage sign peace treaty with India(can't seem to keep them at war) Hispalis>kill 1 jap sword, lose legionary, kill 2nd jap sword. Kill Egypt sword at Ravenna. I noticed that Japan got a leader from 1 of there archers.

10. 150BC Troop movements, kill 2 India archers and 1 egypt warrior(all with elites and no leaders)

In closing, This game is seeming pretty tough. I really wanted to get a capitol killing force assembled in 1 of our cities by India, If we don't start getting Offensive soon, I think we will get smoked. I also think that we really need an Embassy in China and Peace with Korea and an Embassy there also. We really need to build more cities and definately a larger military.
We really need to jump on India and Japan before they learn Chivalry. On that I think that as soon as the great Library does its job and we have the 2 1st level techs we should research Chivalry ourselves and in the mean time start building Horsemen to upgrade to knights. Or to even wage Ofeensive war at India and Japan with the Horsemen.

Just my thoughts. Anyway. Goodluck to you conehead234

Here is the

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_150_BC.SAV)

I got the save. Should i try my galley idea to get Delhi.

If you can get 2 or 3 Galleys built and loaded with Legions I'll sail them down the coast and have a crack at Delhi :)

Seriously, if you can 3 Galleys built (or near completion) then 6 Legions should have a good chance at toppling Delhi. It's certainly worth a try.


Ted

well, there is 1 galley being built in our southernmost city, but we need that town to grow to get them out faster. I have built a road to it, but it probably needs good defense around it so we can really work it up to a decent size.

Also, as you noticed I did not revolt to a different government because the opportunity just did not seem right at the time, too weak militarily and needed to build more troops. I just felt like we could only have no more than 3 turns of anarchy and I did not wanna roll the dice till we had more military and this round of troops coming in was vanquished.

So, you may want to consider revolting also, it will help our production in the long run.

Oh, and has anyone heard or seen Genneralissimo?

I am wondering if he is still in the game or if we are just 4 now??

his last post was on the 26th and I never heard back from the PM I sent him.

If he is not back by his turn, I say he is welcome whenever he returns, but do we want another player or just tackle it with the 4 of us. I am fine either way.

Well i am about halfway through my turns and their has been alot of Fighting. I got peace with Korea so there is only three civs at war will us now. India is starting to become a real pain. i am starting to gather a group of legions on the south border. We got Feudism and theology from TGL.

I agree about Gerneralissimo: perma-skip until he checks back in. I have no opinion on continuing with 4 versus getting another player.

It is my perception that there's no consensus yet on what government to revolt to. Currently, if the choice falls on my turns I'll go for Republic since Ted was pretty convinced that was right, and our enemies seem to be getting along with Republic WW just fine so far. (And I'm pretty sure Ted had support for Republic from others on the team, and as far as I can tell, Ted has more experience on harder levels than the rest of us.)

Have there been any tech deals lately? I peeked at OFW's save, and it looks like everyone's at parity. Are we getting anything for it, or are the AIs trading around before we have the chance to deal?

Anyway, Conehead and Ted: Go get 'em :hammer:

I will try to have the turns posted by tomorrow.

Preturn- nothing press enter and pray
IBT- Lose legion at Hisapolis kill jap archer, Korean troops apear, and more jap archers

appear.

Turn 1 (130 BC)- Kill 2 jap spears, one legion promotes to elite. Kill indian archer no

leader. Troop movements.

IBt- Jap archers with leader run away. enemy troop movements.

Turn 2 (110 BC)- Kill 2 Korean archer. Make peace with korea for WM, 4 Gpa, 26 gold. Kill

Indian archer and jap spear.

IBT- Kill Indian archer. and Egyptian archer.

Turn 3 (90BC)- Kill Egyptian warrior. Troop Movement.

IBT- Carthage Declared war on the Chinese, Recieve Thelogy and feudlism from TGL.

Turn 4 (70 BC)- Kill jap archer, Troop movements.

IBT- A bunch of Indian troops appear to the south, Jap troops appear near Hisapis.

Turn 5 (50 BC)- Kill Indian Spear, Troop movements.

IBT- More Indian troops appear.

Turn 6 (30 BC)- Kill jap archer, legion promotes to elite. Troop movments.

IBT- jap sword kills legion.

Turn 7 (10 BC)- Kill jap sword, legion promotes to elite. Kill Indian archer, No leader.

Troop movements. Indian archers are posed outside Lugdunum. Huge garison of legions inside the

city.

IBT- The archers near Lugdunum run north, Korea and greece signed an MA against Egypt.

Turn 8 (10 AD)- Kill 6 indian archers, no casuties, movements

IBT- Nothing

Turn 9 (30 AD)- Kill Indian horse and settler/spear pair. Lose 1 legion. kill elite jap

archer.

IBT- India and Greece sign an MA against Egypt.

Turn 10 (50 AD)- Troop movements.


Everyone is jumping on the kill Egypt banwagon which is good for us because Indian is at war will egypt also. The japanese front is quiet and because we got Feudilism we can build MI. We should try to take out India, we have a bunch of legions around Lugdunum. Ted should organize the legions and try to raze Delhi. There is 2 india settler pairs near 2 legions try to kill them.

Good luck Ted.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_50_AD1.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Plan_50_AD1.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Jap_front_50_AD1.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Foriegn_50_AD1.JPG

Good turns, conehead. The fighting was a bit scary, but now that the AIs are turning on each other I feel much better.

Ted, as an FYI I notice that our 20-turn deal with Greece is now past 20 turns, but we're still paying 18gpt for an ongoing alliance against the Egyptians. I have no advice there, but it's something to be aware of.

Got it

Play this evening


Ted

Pre-flight checks... OK

Pre-turn
Give irrigated plains tile to Cumae (from Pompeii) to start growth again
Rome switches to Settler (all that land to the Southeast)
Antium switches to Horseman
Lutetia switches to Barracks
Hawk WM
Greece has Education

I think I'll revolt when the Settler in Rome is built as we need the boost from Republic

Press button

1 - 70AD
Legions South of Lugdunum & E of Jaipur start long march to Delhi (hopefully by the time they get there we'll have some Knights to back them up)
Research Invention @Lone Scientist (Rome)
Lux 0%
Hawk WM

IBT
Alliance with Greece vs Egypt comes up for renewal. We were paying them 18gpt but I manage to get the cost down to 6gpt :)
Cumae Market - Lib (need the border expansion to get those Silks!)
Lutetia Barracks - Horse

2 - 90AD
TFI (Task Force India) is reformed at strength 5
A reserve of 2 is following 1 tile behind
Hawk WM

IBT
Japanese Spear arrives North of Neapolis
Indian Archer emerges from the jungle 2SW from Antium
Rome Settler - Lib
Antium Horse - Settler
Hispalis Worker - Barracks

3 - 110AD
Settler (Rome) heads East
A Chines Settler/Spear is blocking the route to Neapolis so I can't get either a Horse or an MDI there in time to attack the Spear (we only have a reg Warrior in the garrison) so I'll have to let him pillage :(
Move an MDI & a Legion to prepare for Archer next turn
Hawk WM
Revolt - we draw a 6 turn anarchy
Hire taxmen in most cities

IBT
Japanese Spear pillages N Neapolis
Japanese Army (3 Archers) pops up on hill 2NE, 1N of Virconium with a Spear as escort - yikes!

4 - 130AD
Upgrade elite Warrior (Pisae)
Elite Legion vs reg Archer (WSW Antium) - victory (1/5)
TFI continues toward Delhi
Vet Horse vs reg Spear (N Neapolis) - victory (2/4)
Settler continues toward the East
Elite Horse to Virconium
Vet MDI to W Virconium

IBT
Greece & Egypt sign Peace Treaty :(
China & Carthage sign Peace Treaty
Korea starts Sun Tzu
India starts Sun Tzu

5 - 150AD
Settler continues East
Horse (N Neapolis) S to heal
MDI fort Virconium
MDI (Pisae) heads for Virconium
Hawk WM
Buy Incense from Greece for Dyes + 24gp (I wanted some sort of deal going with Greece but I couldn't do a gpt deal as our income is -1gpt)

IBT
Japanes Army arrives N Virconium
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-150AD-Jap-Army.jpg
China starts Sistine (Theology)

6 - 170AD
Settler arrives at Hispalis but because of the Japanese threat I don't have an escort for him so I fort him in Hispalis
I see no alternative but attack for Neapolis so here I go
Elite Horse vs Army - retreats red-lining Warrior in Army
Vet MDI vs Army - victory & promotion (2/5) :)
TFI continues toward Delhi
Hawk WM
China has Education - so much for the Great Library

IBT
Extend Peace with China
We learn Education

7 - 190AD
Vet MDI vs Spear (NE Virconium) - victory
TFI vet Legion vs Horse - forces retreat by Horse
Vet MDI vs Spear (ESE Ravenna) - victory
Sell Education to Carthage for WM, 19gp, 10gpt, MA vs India & MA vs Egypt
Sell Education to Korea for WM, 13gp, MA vs Japan, MA vs Egypt & MA vs India

IBT
Japanes Spear appears 2 NE of Neapolis

8 - 210AD
TFI Vet Legion vs reg Spear (W Madras) - victory
TFI Vet Legion vs reg Horse (W Madras) - forces horse to retreat and we capture a Settler (2 slaves)
Switch research to Chivalry
Hawk WM
Greece & China have Invention but we can't afford it

IBT
Japanes Spear moves to E Neapolis (as expected)
Revolt to Monarchy

9 - 230AD
Vet MDI vs reg Spear ( E Neapolis) - victory (1/4)
Move reinforcements to Lugdunum
TFI continues toward Delhi
Juggle some units to get an escort for the Settler in Hispalis - Settler heads for the jungle tile between the 2 BGS 3SW of Nagasaki
Fire all the taxmen
MM most cities to avoid execess pop growth or adjust build times (temporary measure only, as soon as these builds complete we want all cities pop 7 or larger ASAP)
Hawk WM
Still can't afford Invention

IBT
Lugdunum Galley - Barracks
Greece starts Leonardo's (Invention)

10 - 250AD
Elite Legion vs reg Spear - victory (3/5) capturing 2 Slaves
TFI elite Legion vs reg Horse - victory
Gelley sails East around coast to spy out land the Southeast of Hispalis

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-250AD.zip)

Notes and screenshots follow...


Ted

Notes
Workers are re-connecting the Horses North of Neapolis
Antium should be adjusted for max growth after the Settler is built
I found a few towns without Barracks - Barracks are vital to our game - I switched where it was feasible but Virconium was too far on with the FP build to change.
Research (Chivalry) is set at 50% which gives a -1gpt income - this will improve when the Settler founds our next town.
Our Military support costs are 20gpt until we grow some cities to pop 7 or better.
TFI has split into 2 forces from attacking targets of opportunity. Both foorces are stood on roads that should be pillaged next turn then they should continue toward Delhi.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-250AD-TFI.jpg
The Settler should found 1N of his present position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-250AD-Settler.jpg
Workers are roading the Spices NW of Hispalis to give us another trade item.
Rushing the Library in Cumae would both strengthen the town against Culture Flip and pull in those Silks sooner.
Our preferred Military build should be Horsemen as Chivalry won't be that long in coming. Use Legions instead of Pikes for defense.


Ted

Got it, but I'm currently not planning to play this evening.

Great turns, Ted.

Education came before Invention and Gunpowder? :( Ouch. So much for the So-So Library. Oh well, the price was right. (I know, it probably saved our butts, but I was hoping for a couple more techs....)

If I'm lucky enough to snag another leader, what's most important? I could rush the FP for a production boost, or I think Sun Tzu and Leo's are still available. Sistine is forbidden, of course. I think FP would be the best short term improvement, but Sun Tzu and Leo's may or may not prove more beneficial over the long term. I don't see that armies/Heroic Epic/Military Academy are attractive for right now. I don't have a preference for leader use right now but haven't thought much about it yet.

All of Ted's suggestions sound right to me, so I'll likely follow them. Looks like a Delhi offensive/military buildup turn for me this time.

I would think that if you get a Great leader. then Sun Tzu's would be a great choice!!

Sun Tzu isn't going to be much help with us having to raze enemy cities, Leonardo's will pay back over time but a Forbidden Palace will pay dividends now so I would go with rushing the FP :)

Probably the most important item on the agenda is getting the population up in our core cities to 7 or more to get the extra 'free' unit support. It's costing us 20gpt at the moment for a not very large military.

Incidentally, I changed my mind on the Republic/Monarchy issue. I did hope that we would have eliminated at least one of the Religious Civs by now. As we hadn't I thought it better to play safe :)


Ted

sounds fine to me Ted. It's good to see that we are finnally forming an offensive at someone:)

As for government, maybe(if we survive) we can change again to republic after we get rid of a couple religious civs.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
As for government, maybe(if we survive) we can change again to republic after we get rid of a couple religious civs. That would be the plan :)


Ted

That is a plan. We don't really have to worry about Egypt. If we raze Delhi i think the capital will move to Bangalore. Make sure you build settlers to fill in the razed cities.

I've just noticed that I forgot to mention that there are a couple of Slaves with Task force India. I captured them along the way and thought they might be useful 'bait' in an emergency :)


Ted

A quick update, I haven't started the turns yet. I bought C3C this morning and will try very hard to resist the temptation of installing it before I play my turns just in case something goofs up. I'll play tonight.

Last night, instead of playing I did something that I used to do but haven't in a while. It felt great. If I recall, I think it's called "sleep". Since my turn is up and I bought C3C it may be a long while before I enjoy this "sleep" thing again. :D

EDIT: It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway: I know not to open this SG's save file with C3C. I am capable of mirror installs and/or choosing the right executable for the given game.

Put that C3C box away and don't even think about it until you've played your turns :)

I'm guessing there'll be an awful lot of delayed/interrupted SGs over the next few days :)


Ted

:lol:

You'd be proud of me. I left the box, manual and CD in the car instead of bringing them into work and poring over the manual and box pics.

I think I'll be good and play the turns first. And post my turns. I have the willpower. :D

I think it's funny that there were 3 C3C games started before the game was available. LK57's Lee says he's starting tonight but doesn't have the game yet, and none of his team does, and at least two are overseas (USA perspective) and won't have the game for another week or two. I think most SG'ers feel obligated to their SGs, and no one will buy the "real life" claims when everyone knows they bought C3C, so hopefully PTW/Civ3 SGs will go on.

And seriously, the reason I didn't play last night was to catch up on sleep and avoid Civ3 burnout.

I'm only jealous :)

Another 9 nail-biting days to go :D


Ted

I might buy it this weekend. But I cannot play it until I finish the last turns of OFW1. But I can say I own it.

At 1st I thought Puppeteer said he got it yesterday, then I reread it and realized he said this morning. I was wondering how someone sleeps when they buy a new game;)

Anyway, no hurry with your turns, I am trying to work on my turns in my other 2 SG's before I am up again here.

In the rotation, General Puppeteer is now up for command of the next 10 cycles of war. Temptation calls to him from the shiny blue package; such adventure calls, such new sights to be seen and Conquests to be had.... But Caesar needs him now. India dares to bow to an imaginary deity but not to Caesar. Japan and Egypt, too. The other nations are somewhat tolerable but still build temples and worship not Caesar. There is work to be done, temptation be damned.

On the way out the door as he starts to the battlefield a bottle catches his eye. Yes, he remembers. It is some coconut rum from the booty left over from long ago when the savage people settled near our borders were assimilated. Well, not all temptation can be put off, so he takes this bottle (and some diet soda) with him into battle...

Pre-turn check: 250 AD: The drink is a little strong. The map reveals a new peninsula! That's the second time this game I assumed a coast where there was more land. Tech: Wow, we're well ahead of our religious enemies! (About 3 techs ahead of each.) Only China and Greece are up Invention right now, and they don't want to deal--well, if I put science to zero and give them everything they'll take it, but I'm not sure I could recover costs reselling to Carthage and Korea. As a test I try to set up gpt deals for Carthage and Korea to buy our WM for gpt; it's "never" for even 1gpt; I think it would be "insulted" if they could afford it, so I think this means they're both running at 0gpt or a deficit, so there's no way I could recover gpt if I bought Invention right now. Military: strong compared to India, average compared to Japan :goodjob: . :hmm: Greece is at peace with everyone yet has troops in and around our territory. We have the lux deal going with them. Sistine, Sun Tzu's and Leo's are under construction by other civs. Greece and China are the two superpowers; if we run afoul of one it might be good to get them fighting each other, but hopefully that won't be necessary. Not looking too bad on F11 given our size. MM: Rome loses 1food & 1g but finishes lib faster and still grows in 1; squeeze a shield and a couple of turns out of Ravenna; give Viroconium some more food--lost shield was corrupt so no spt loss; gain a shield lose a gold out of Lutetia. Now at -2gpt instead of -1. Note that forrest chop is timed well for Neapolis Library. Mix another drink. (Don't worry, kids: I'm over 21 and at home not driving or operating heavy machinery.) This drink is mixed just right. End the turn...

IT: Japan moves 5 vet swords, 1 vet archer and 1 elite* archer SoD into view NE of Hispalis :eek: . China demands 24g and WM. Take it and this lovely beverage. Karachi, India finishes Great Lighthouse. Rome grows to 7.

1: 260 AD: Elite Legion of settler pair attacks SoD: wins losing 2hp. Settler retreats to west. TFI: pillage E road. MDI is N of west stack, but I think I'll keep 'em together: pillage and fortify. MM Rome, Neapolis, Veii again for efficiency. Change Hispalis to taxman; It would grow to two in two turns and I don't want the Japanese to keep it if they conquer it, so if they roll into Hispalis it will autoraze. Wow, we're at +7gpt; sci to 60%, now +2gpt. Upgrade Neapolis reg warrior for 60g (somebody'd just demand it from us if we leave it sitting around).

IT: Okay, a lot happened: India MDI kills our vet Legion (shoulda attacked I guess). Japan attacks our 3/5 Legion with two archers and loses both but wins with a sword. Many Japan troops move. Egypt wants to talk: unfortunatly she was no applying for the concubine but wants a peace treaty--no way. Wonder initiations.

2: 270 AD: Two more vet swords and a reg archer were Japan's new forces near Hispalis, but the original SoD is split up a bit. Hispalis' vet Legion attacks Japan vet sword (in stack of 2): loses taking 2hp. Elite horseman from Pisae attacks vet sword: retreats taking 1hp and losing 4; crud, hopefully Japan will be as scared as the barbs were my last turn. Workers on spices stop work retreat to road. Vet horse (brought from Viroconium last turn) attacks vet sword in 2-stack in jungle: retreats taking 2hp and losing 3, then moves west. Settler retreats west. 2 workers finish road; not sure what their task is; set them to irrigate then they'll improve the NW. We're really hurting against Japan right now and will likely lose Hispalis in the IT; I thought attacking would produce my best odds but got some bad RNG luck, sorry. Reduce science to 40% so I'll have enough gold to upgrade another warrior next turn. Move all available in-territory troops towards eastern front. Pisae is undefended with a Korean settler pair by it, but Korea is gracious and our ally against 3 civs. Holding breath and taking a sip:

IT: :cry: Japan sword sneezes and knocks over our horseman and Hispalis which autorazes (steals one gold). Korea wants to renew peace treaty, I accept. Rome riots :smoke:. No, it's not the alcohol, I'm just plain playing badly. Oh, that and we lost our spices. Hire a taxman and scroll ahead, but the other cities are fine for now. Antium settler-MDI, MM for 8spt.

3: 380 AD: Notice that someone razed the Indian ivory city north of Delhi, but not sure when. They have no ivory for any city and lost incense for all but two cities last turn when we pillaged. Upgrade a warrior in Lutetia for 60g. Reg MDI attacks reg spear in spear/archer pair on hill (apparently heading for Neapolis): wins unhurt and promotes to vet. Leave the taxman in Rome since it would cost 6gpt to entertain him and Rome's pulling in 12spt anyway. Sci back to 60%; hopefully I won't need more upgrades right away.

IT: Freakin reg Japanese archer attacks and kills our vet MDI, promotes to 3/4. Neapolis Library-horseman.

4: 290 AD: Crud, I've left Viroconium with a warrior garrison and the 3/4 archer is threatening. Move 2/4 horse to help cover Vir. Notice Cadiz, Carthage settled by razed Indian city. TFI resists urge to attack Indian settler pair. Elite MDI attacks Japan elite sword in jungle: wins losing 1hp. Vet MDI attacks vet sword in sword-archer-sword stack on ruins of Hispalis: wins losing 2hp. Change Antium from MDI to horseman. Count Japanese troops: 5 vet swords and a reg archer in our east plus 1 vet archer threatening Viroconium. I could mortage our empire again (29gpt w/zero research) to get Greece to attack Japan, but I think I'll wait one more IT and see how the RNG luck favors us. With TFI in India I'm not quite sure I can hold against Japan with what I have left at home.

IT: Lose 2 MDIs, kill two archers and a sword, two promotions. Notice Japan attacked someone at their flank. China settles our spices :cry:. Carthage wants WM for our WM +5g. Can't negotiate for less, so take it. Carthage kills the India settler pair I passed up last turn. Veii library-horse, MM for 4 turns. I left out one of these recent IT's that Korea made peace with India.

5: 300 AD: Realize we have no embassy with China so I don't know if they're at war with Japan or have RoP. Can't afford embassy. Chivalry is out and cheaper to buy than research; Korea doesn't have it. Buy Chivalry from Carthage for 15g and 18gpt. Set research to 0, change Rome taxman to scientist and start 40 turn gambit on Banking. CRAP CRAP CRAP! I expected the horsemen to finish and then upgrade them with the extra gold, but all horse builds are already changed to knights. Oh well I'll keep the income high (32gpt) to rush these guys as I'll need them against Japan ASAP. I stopped drinking a few turns ago, really. Korea won't pay me gpt, has only 23g and is already at war with Japan and Egypt. I can't get them to declare on India. Forget it, they can keep their 23g. Sell 'em a WM for 3g. Various troops fall back/rally at Pisae and Viroconium. Change Rome from Library to knight, due in 1. MM a bit.

IT: No fighting, but two Japan swords advance. Rome knight-knight. Pompeii riots :smoke: , and I even checked. I only had two drinks I swear. Hire a taxman. Scroll ahead to find Veii newly grown and unhappy; think I get a grace turn but won't risk it and hire a taxman. Wonder initiations.

6: 310 AD: Scout with the horse, find a Japan 2/4 sword and attack it: wins unhurt, promotes to elite! I can see 3 Japanese swords right now and think that's all that's left of what razed Hispalis. TFI in position to attack Delhi w/4 vet Legions, but will wait one more turn for 2 more legions to catch up. Moving Legion and settler towards where Ted wanted to settle that town before Japan showed up. Other settler is hanging out in Lutetia for now. Count happy/sad faces in F1 really slowly and carefully... Rome temporarily has an extra garrison so I put the scientist to work and change Pompeii's taxman to a scientist.

IT: Japanese vet sword kills our horse (was hoping for retreat) losing 2hp. 2 swords advance on Pisae. Somebody's attacking Delhi! Assume it's Carthage but can't see the attackers. Lugdunum Barracks-Pikeman.

7: 320 AD: Okay I'm ready for some :hammer: : Vet Legion attacks reg spear (fortified) in Delhi (size 5): Wins unharmed! Vet L attacks 2/3 spear in Delhi: dies and spear promotes to 3/4, grrr. Vet L attacks 3/4 spear: loses, spear promotes to 2/5. Vet L attacks 2/4 spear: wins losing 1hp. Vet L attacks 2/5 spear: loses leaving spear at 1/5. 3/5 Legion attacks 1/5 spear: wins immediately, razes Delhi (1 gold, two Indian workers, one Carth worker and a catapult liberated). Bangalore is new capitol. TFI India is now 3 Legions (3/5, 4/4, 3/4), 5 slaves and a catapult. Back on the Japanese front: Elite Legion attacks unfortified 2/4 sword on grass: wins losing 1hp. Vet MDI in Pisae attacks elite sword (in 2-stack) unfortified on roaded jungle: loses without touching the sword. 3 units in Pisae and two swords threatening, so I won't attack again even though I would've liked the odds better. Rehire taxman for Pompeii and scientist for Rome. Could rush a pikeman, but can't rush a knight yet. I'll hang on to the dough. Due to military losses and two size 7 cities our support costs are down to 9g even after losing Hispalis. Military advisor now reports that we are weak compared to Japan. Lots of Greece troops are working their way south on both sides of our territory; they're not at war yet but are going to attack someone, and I don't think it's us. Korea still doesn't have Chivalry and can't pay any gpt and only has 10g. Somehow India is now at tech parity but would give up a town for peace. Egypt and Japan are still backwards. Check F1 for happiness carefully...


IT: Pisae Vet Legion fends off elite sword losing 2hp but dies to the next sword. Greece demands TM and 21g :love: . Borders expand somewhere; oh yeah they expanded somewhere else last IT. Looks like Greece is going after our Chinese spice poacher town! Will get a settler ready as it's at size 1.

8: 330 AD: Another Japanese sword appeared, so there's one 4/4 and one 2/5, but only the hurt one can attack us next turn. Elite MDI attacks 2/5 sword unfortified on roaded jungle: wins losing 2hp. Vet knight attacks vet sword unf. in jungle: wins losing 2hp, promotes to 3/5 elite. Settler, spear and legion move to spot Ted thought I'd settle on turn 2. Workers move to road towards it. TFI meets & fortifies to heal in neutral lands. Check F1: Veii has a clown? Make him a taxman.

IT: Carthage builds Sun Tzu. Cascade initiations. Carthage captures Bangalore! Karachi is now Indian capitol. Two Japanese swords and a spear appear, but widely separated.

9: 340 AD: Okay, Greece's warrior on the doorstep of Yangchow disappeared, but Greece isn't at war. They have RoP and it looks like the warrior must've used our old roads to go east. So much for resettling the spices. Start Galley heading south to pick up a couple of legions since India will fall before I can spare any more offensive troops. Korea has Chivalry. Have enough cash for either a knight rush or a Chinese embassy; we're desperately short of offensive units, so it's a knight rush in Veii for 112g. Consider moving settler SE since we don't have Hispalis, but decide to settle Byzantium here. Production set to worker. Crud, two more Japanese swords are now visible, one is hurt.

IT: Veii knight-knight. Ravenna library-knight. I think I saw Carthage advancing on Karachi. There are now 5 visible Japan swords and an archer.

10: 350 AD: Worker tasks. I'm leaving the two knights with full moves.

The eastern front situation. The hurt sword has an archer stacked with it. (clarification: Japan razed Hispalis; China just had a settler pair nearby and took advantage of the nice spot) Greece is just passing through to the SE peninsula:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-350ad-japan-front.jpg

What's left of India's core. What you can't see are the Carthage forces about to knock over Karachi or the towns near our borders (clarification: Carthage is not attacking the Indian cities near our borders yet; I just mean you can't see that India has 4 cities near our border and not shown in this pic):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-350ad-india-core.jpg

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of good, and more bad and ugly than you might expect. In summary, we lost Hispalis (razed) and the spices along with it. China immediately settled our spices. We razed Delhi but took heavy losses doing it. Japan keeps sending way more swords that I'm ready for, and the military is looking very thin right now. I'm not happy with my turns but not sure what I could've done differently to have made it turn out better. India's as good as dead by Carthage, and Egypt has been a no-show. (Then again you know the AI will probably make peace at the last second.)



72g, +43gpt, 1 scientist researching banking in 35 turns, sci/lux at 0. specialists in Pompeii, Rome and Veii.

The military is very thin: 1 settler (hanging out in Lutetia), 12 workers, 3 warriors, 6 spearmen, 1 pikeman, 2 knights, 1 catapult, 1 galley, 5 legionary, 2 MDI, 11 (I think--they're hard to count) slaves. And 3 legions, the catapult and 5 slaves are standing by the ruins of Delhi.

I may have made a mistake settling Byzantium. when my defenses fell back to Pisae and Viroconium I had two strong forces holding them. Settling Byzantium has spread us very thin now, and many more Japan troops appeared after I thought they were gassed. We should have enough income to get Greece to attack Japan, and that should get them off our backs for a little bit, anyway. It might have been better if I had made the deal with Greece earlier in my turns, but I thought we could hold out until we got the knights; it's a very close call now. I suppose you could also abandon Byzantium and fall back to Pisae and Viroconium again. I'm not thrilled with any of the options, and the RNG has been good to Japan in my turns. (Naturally you can just fight off Japan yourself and wait for the knight reinforcements...still a tough call.)

Workers just hooked up Byzantium and another large group are in the process of roading the 2 jungle tiles between Pisae and Viroconium so defenders can move between the two towns in one turn. The team I put there will road a jungle square in 2 turns.

The only good news militarily is that we have Chivalry and should start popping more knights pretty soon. (2 in 2 turns, 1 in 3; also due at 8 & 10 turns but the core towns will produce again before then.)

We have no active deals with China (except 6 turns on a peace treaty) they are annoyed with us and just put an archer in our western territory by Ravenna.

Antium is undefended.

There are 5 Japanese swords and an archer around Byzantium, and there is a spear threatening to pillage the horses again. Two swordsmen can attack Byzantium next turn.

The two knights haven't moved. I expect you'll want Veii's knight to go after the pillaging spearman, but then again the eastern front could sure use him. The other horse is hooked back up now, so losing the Neapolis horse again wouldn't be catasrophic.

Greece is moving a whole bunch of troops and no visible settlers to the SE peninsula and hasn't attacked the Chinese cities. I suppose he could be going after Carthage or perhaps barbs, but I haven't seen or heard of barbs this turn; scratch that, I see a barb camp on the SE tip of the peninsula. There are at least 15 troops including warriors, pikes and MDI heading that way. Some are between or past the Chinese cities.

Haven't seen Egyptian troops this turn, and I haven't seen India troops come towards our territory, but Antium is undefended and a worker is working by it close to Indian borders.

Carthage is carving up India for thanksgiving. I razed Delhi, but they razed one city and took another and also softened up Delhi before I attacked. I'm pretty sure they'll capture Karachi in the next turn or two, and then either Madras or Kolhapur will be the capitol and close to our borders. Oops, just noticed Calcutta is still down south, also at size 4, so it might also be the next capitol.

I don't think I did well at all this turn, but I don't know what I should've done differently. Was I too aggressive with the first Japan SoD? Given the attack/defense strengths I thought it would be better to take out one or two rather than just fortify and let the swords pound on me. I spread myself too thin on the second wave, though; I should have been more careful in picking them off anc keeping my units stacked. Falling back to Pisae and Viroconium was the strongest thing I did, and then I spread myself weak again settling Byzantium, but I thought only 2 swords at most would show up this soon. So what would you guys have done? I also had mostly bad RNG luck.

Should I have allied Greece against Japan earlier? I thought if I could just make it to knights I could fend off Japan, but I kept underestimating what they had to throw at me.

Yeah, I really did have a couple of drinks at the beginning of my turns, but it didn't affect my playing. After that set of turns, though, I think I'll drink a few more.

Last minute add-on thoughts: It didn't occur to me until now to put the settler on the galley and send him to Delhi's ruins. I kept the settler back because I didn't have an escort for him, and I kept considering plopping him down near our border to the north of Rome, NE of Neapolis or to the south. But my decisions didn't pay off well this turn so it's probably just as well I didn't put him anywhere.

TFI is healing but is only waiting for a 4/5 legion to heal now. They all have full movement available if you decide to move them somewhere, but there are only 3 legions and a cat left (and workers, but they don't lay seige very well). I see little point in moving them towards Karachi since I expect it to fall to Carthage before TFI could get there. But India's so weak it might pay off to send the 3 to the next capitol.

The eastern front is the big worry right now. To summarize the three options I thought of, you could 1: Hang tight until knights bail you out; 2: Sic Greece on Japan; 3: Abandon Byzantium and fall back to Pisae & Viroconium. I left the two knights (one hurt) with full movement for your strategy positioning. I think every other military unit is fortified and unmoved.

EDIT: Oh yeah, it would be nice if I linked to the save, huh? OFW2_350AD.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-350AD.SAV)

I wrote down twice that there are 5 Japanese swords and and archer near Byzantium, but in the pics and in the save I can only see 4 swords and an archer. I know at one point I miscounted the archer as a sword, so I don't recall if there's a hidden sword nearby or if I counted the archer as both a sword and an archer.

And one of the swords is closer to Viroconium than Byzantium, and another sword is healing in the jungle for at least another turn.

Exciting stuff Puppeteer :)

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. I wasn't expecting Japan to put together such a large force at one time.

We were unlucky with China having a Settler close to the Spices but that's the game :)

It looks as if India is crumbling to Carthage so we should concentrate our efforts on the Japanese and extract some revenge for the razing of Hispalis.


Ted

Thanks Ted. I was beating myself up after those turns, but after sleeping on it it's not quite as doom-and-gloom as I was thinking.

Like you say, India is not a worry anymore. Our border should expand to include silks soon and we have I think 2 workers and 2 slaves nearby to road it; in fact they can start as soon as they finish their current tasks since they won't finish before the border expands. Even after using specialists Rome is at 12spt and Veii is at 10spt and we have a lot of income to work with.

Also there are only 2 Japanese swords that can attack next turn. The other 2 swords and archer are at least another turn from attacking.

If we can get TFI safely home--easy to do if no one else declares on us--then we have several more slaves and a catapult.

China had the settler pair on the way to the SE peninsula, so yeah they just happened to be a turn or two away when Hispalis burned.

If we can survive the next 3-5 turns without losing another town then we'll be in good shape to fend off Japan and perhaps even start counterattacking. And they were 3 techs behind at last check. And we can even afford to lose Byzantium but not one of the other towns.

I know I mentioned it, but China is a bit of a worry because they're annoyed and have an archer by Ravenna and we have no active deals other than a 6-turn peace treaty. Or they might just be sending the archer to the spice town.

I like what ya did I mean we all have our way of playing and when we are done, we tend to question what we did. As for having drinks, it looks like I may have to have a few before startimg up (you know, Liquid Courage)

I will probably 1st have 2 beers, 2nd look at the save, then have another beer, maybe a shot of jaeger.

I probably will try to get greece on our side in a Japan war, we could use them.

Nice job in being the 1st on the team to raze a capitol


Oh, yeah, I would like to somehow be able to get a embassy in China.

I will probably play Friday afternoon.

Thanks OFW. Last night I was wondering if I'd get booed by the team after my turns.

Yeah, drinking might help. The first 2-5 turns could be dicey, especially if any more Japanese troops show up.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
Nice job in being the 1st on the team to raze a capitolThanks. When it happened it felt overshadowed by being the first (and hopefully only) to lose a city, but at least our conquest is started.

The Chinese embassy was about 101g last I checked, and I think you'll have that in turn 1 if someone doesn't demand tribute. But last time I opted to rush a knight instead of buy the embassy.

Oh, and after the Japan/China situations are in hand you may need some settlers as either Carthage or you will probably be razing the Indian cities on our southern border.

The FP is due to complete early in Conehead's turns, so Conehead should get a nice production/commerce boost.

I was thinking of having a settler or 2 waiting in cities to the south by India for when Indias cities go away, or to send in behind some knights(with protection of course) to build following destruction.
this is all long term though, Initially, I want to get that Chinese embassy, and try to get Greece to goto war with Japan, and I will most likely be sending the bulk of new troops in Japan's Direction now that India is under control(somewhat).

That sounds partially sane, does it not?

Sounds sane to me, but what do I know? :D


Ted

Sounds sane to me. Well, except for the Jagermeister. :D

EDIT: Just had an idea: You could change Pisae to Library to expand the borders and we can get one of our spices back! Will take a long time or a rush, though. Then again that will be a first ring city when the FP finishes, so maybe no rushing is needed.

Good turns. At least India is knocked out of the picture. make sure you build some settlers to fill in the open land that was India. OneFastWarrior bring some :hammer:

Hey Guys. I just wanna let ya know that I am going to try to finish my turns on my 1st FG tonight/tomorrow morn. I will play this no later than Saturday Afternoon. Then I will only have this and 1 other sg to pay attention to.

Sorry for the delay.

Take as long as you want

Well, let me say, that 1st I did not have my drinks but now I relly need a couple:cry:

Preturn I see that Greece has troops in a nice place to help us out vs. Japan, so, I give them WM, 72 gold and 25gpt to fight Japan with us, It's alot but someone else needs to be fighting the Japs other than us.

I send the 3/5 knight to heal in Pisae. take 3/3 MI towards Byzantium and also new knight goes there as well.

IBT. India galley appears to south. Japan attacks Greece losing 2 swords and Archer, killing 3 MI. Greece attacks Nagasaki losing MI and archer.
India and Carthage sign Peace treaty:mad:

1.360AD Elite Legionary kills weak jap sword. Fortify knight in Byzantium.
Music Theory is known(even by India)

IBT India Longbow lands in south. Japs kill 2 greek units Jap spear destroys improvement in North.

2. 370AD Rome Knight>pike. Antium Knight>pike. Pisae Pike >pike.
New knight from rome kills India Longbow, losing 2hp.
send elite knight towards pillaging spear., send another MI towrds Byzantium. Attack Jap sword with knight, down to 1hp-retreats. MI finishes off sword.

IBT Jap sword kills our MI.

3. 380AD Neapolis knight Pike (Aqueduct needed here, but so is military everywhere even though we can't afford it). vet knight kills spear, promotes to elite. Legionary kills last of jap forces near Byzantium. :goodjob:

IBT Chinese rider appears and chinese archer starts moving(I don't like this)

4. 390AD Upgrade spear to pike in Veii, move troops around.

IBT.China declares war on us attacking Antium:eek: :mad: they kill 1 MI and we kill there archer.

5. 400AD Rome pike>pike. Greece finishes Sistine(silly greeks and there not worshiping of Cesaer:confused: )
Kill chinese rider. Kill jap MI with 2 knights, 1 down to 1hp, 2nd wins. Korea will not goto war against anyone with us except japan, and I decline.

IBT India longbow attacks legion that escorted 2 workers onto galley. legion wins and promotes to elite. more chinese spears appear.

6. 410AD Antium pike>knight. 4 knights now in Byzantium.

IBT China kills 1 of our legions in India.
Egypt and Greece sign MA against Japan. Egypt and Greece sign MA against Korea. India and Carthage sign MA against Egypt.( they are not supposed to be friends:mad: )

7. 420AD Neapolis Pike>settler
greece completes Leo's. Upgrade 2 spears to Pikes. Kill 1 chinese spear and promote knight to elite.
China longbow ready to attack Pisae.

IBT China galley appears Longbow attacks and loses at Pisae, promoting pike to elite.

8. 430AD Rome pike>knight
Veii Knight>knight
Cumae Library>knight
Move knight to Ravenna to heal.

IBT kill china MI, China SOD moves near Antium.

9. 440AD Byzantium worker>catapult. Pillage Spices in Yangchow. Kill elite jap sword. Pillage incense in India China has 6MI's 3 archers and a sword near Antium and won't talk.

(You were right to be paraniod of China Puppeteer)

at this point I wish I had built the Embassy and just tried to fight off Japan for a few turns, but we all make mistakes. I just hope this one did not cost us the game.:(

BTW, Banking and Astronomy are known and we can afford nothing.

IBT 2 India longbows attack TFI and 1 loses and the other kills a legionary. Chinese rider attacks the remaining and kills him taking 3 workers and the catapult. Jap sword attacks Knight and loses then Samurai appears and kills knight.
\
Great, Japan has Samurai. well we have 4 or 5 knights ready to go if ya want to take on Japans capitol and a settler is on his way in that direction..

450AD Lutetia knight Pike
2 knights in antium just got there and I fortified them

There are mass troops around antium. I don't really know what to tell ya conehead234 but goodluck, may Cesaer be with you.

sorry, I had no time tonight for pics of the ugly mess!

but right now I need a drink as cesaer walks away into the distance mumbling something inaudible and best not repeated.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_450_AD.SAV)

Ouch :eek: where is the save.

It's at the bottom of my message titled "the save".

I don't see it. Did you forget to post it.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_450_AD.SAV)


Ted

Ted the save didn't appear. and i can't find it on the Uploads.

cohead234, If you still cannot see the save.(I can download off of both ted and my posts).

If you go into the uploads5 folder it looks like this

OFW2_450_AD.SAV 08-Nov-2003 19:36 217k


And it has a big black Question mark in front of it.
I would have loaded the save here, but if You cannot see the other 2 then something might be funky with your connection?

hope your able to get it.

conehead,

the link is:
========================================
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_450_AD.SAV
========================================

if you can't see the link between the two lines of equals signs then you do have a problem :)


Ted

Just chiming in: I see 3 save links: two from Ted Jackson and one from OFW in the turn log. And I can download them. Not sure what's going on here. :crazyeye: (Edit: I mean I don't know why conehead can't see them.)

As far as the game, all I can say is "ouch". But I didn't exactly leave OFW in a strong position at the end of my turns.

This is probably of very minor importance right now, but Cumae's borders will expand to include the silks next turn. We could do the same thing in Pisae for spices but have no culture building there yet. (Just hoping we'll survive long enough to take advantage of these.)

Greece appears to have razed a couple of Japanese cities. Carthage didn't take Kurachi before making peace with India. :mad: The AI never shows me mercy, and I doubt India had much of anything to offer Carthage.

The Antium situation with troop stacks noted below:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ofw2-450ad-Antium-trouble.jpg

Sword stack by Antium: Vet sword, 3 reg archers, 4 reg medieval infantry.
3-stack south of sword: Reg medieval infantry, reg longbowman, reg archer.
Sword stack at bottom: 2 reg swords, reg medieval infantry.

Antium defense: Elite legion, 2 vet knights, vet pikeman.

EDIT: The FP finishes in 2 turns. The production from the FP town should be good, and some of the other core cities may get and extra spt or two, but Pisae and Byzantium are so small and have so much jungle that they won't be of much help right away even with the lower corruption..

EDIT 2: In response to Ted's next post, the defenders in Antium have move points. One of the knights has 1 point, but I tried attacking and it did, although I won't tell you what I attacked or what the result was. (I didn't make any other moves, either.) I agree with his attack recommendation, but be sure the units with 1 move left attack a stack of two or more so they don't get stuck outside of town.

Looks like we have a challenge on our hands :)

If we have any movement on the Knights & Legion at Antium then we are better off attacking as we have 2 Knights (att 4) and a Legion (att 3) vs Swords (def 2) & MDI (def 2) rather than letting Swords (att 3) & MDI (att 4) attack Legion (def 3) & Knights (def 3).


Ted

I can see where the save would be in the uploads folder but their is no link there. can you upload it again.

Which browser are you using conehead?

Can you see and download the previous save?

Three of us can see and download the current file, re-uploading isn't going to change anything.


Ted

Okay, here it is on a different server in a couple of different formats:

Links deleted; they were temporary

EDIT: Have you recently installed any sort of popup blocker or other internet software?

EDIT 2: To future readers, these links will become invalid shortly after conehead has the file.

Thank you Puppeteer i got the save. This is the first time this has happened. i hope it doesn't happen again. I had a popup blocker for a while and not recently installed anything.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
This is a PM from Leha

From Leha
Please , tell guys I have serious problems with one of mods here and have to leave CFC . Sorry . Have a nice play .

So, I guess That means Leha is not coming back?! So we have 5, If someone wants the spot, It's early and Your welcome.
I am fine with 5 or 6. I might post in SG registry if need be.

Today I wandered into the OT forum for the first time, and Leha (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=32993) has been there recently (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67380). I guess he didn't leave CFC after all. Has he PM'ed anyone about interest in returning to his seat in this SG? I guess he's not interested.

Lehas's last post was 4 day's ago. but if he wants back in the game, I have no prob with that. I have not pm'ed Leha, but I may.

Just an FYI, I'm 99% sure that Leha is a 'she'. ;)

I'll have the turns by tomorrow. I've been busy and haven't had time to play.

Sorry for the delay, here are the turns.

Preturn (450 AD)- Attack Chinese sword with elite legion- win
kill 2 chinese MI with knights. Press enter and pray

IBT- Antium is attacked and holds. Kill 2 Chinese MI and 2 Archers.
Carthage and Egypt sign peace. Alot of Chinese troops appear.

Turn 1 (460 AD)- Troop movements press enter and pray

IBT- Lugdunum is captured :cry: but Antium Holds. FP is built.

Turn 2 (470 AD)- Troop movements press enter and pray. Kill china archer with knight.

IBT- Lose Knight to China but kill one archer.

Turn 3 (480 AD)- Sign peace with China for 116 g and 2 gpt. Kill indian spear/settler pair.

IBT- Carthage and Greece MA vs Korea, China and greece MA vs korea, China and Greece

alliance against Japan,

Turn 4 (490 AD)- kill indian spear, Movements

IBT- Carthage and Greece alliance vs Japan,

Turn 5 (500 AD)- Kill jap archer, Settle Brundisium on hill near incense, the greeks razed

the Jap city their. The greeks are kicking some Jap butt. they are on the verge of taking

Kyoto. Move knights in striking distance of Japan. Start building settlers to grab land.

IBT- 2 indian archers sucide on our knight, knight to elite.

Turn 6 (510 AD)- Koreans are being crushed by china. Kill jap archer with knight.

IBT- Nada

Turn 7 (520 AD)- movements, boosting defenses, sending knights into japan, and india.

IBT- Chinese spear man is walking into greece.

Turn 8 (530 AD)- Embassy with China, Movements,

IBT- Korea and Greece sign peace, Greece took Izumo from japan,

Turn 9 (540 AD)- Movements.

IBT- i think China is going to sneak attack greece chinese spear moves into greek

territory.

Turn 10 (550 AD)- Kill indian long bow.

We lost Lugdunum but beter than losing antium. Japan is starting to crumble and India isn't really a threat. I have knight and 2 pike/ settler pairs near Japan to grab land. I think China might be sneak attacking Greece. We are falling behind in techs. Good luck to the next player.



SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2_550_AD1.SAV)

God news on the China peace deal. Hopefully we will be able to overcome where we be at at this point in the game. I think it would be miraculous if we can somehow make a comeback from where we are. But, you never know. Go Rome. Kill all that betray us!!!

TedJackson is up
and Puppateer is on deck.

Good luck guys!

Got it

I'm quite busy this weekend so I probably won't finish until tomorrow night.


Ted

Since everyone else is fighting and i think China is going to sneak attack greece, this might be a good time to KO India Just build some more knight and send them down. I already Have a knight near India's horses and it should be pillaged next turn. Their are 2 settler pairs ready to grab land in Japan. Since our MA with greece vs japan has run out you might be able to regotizate it for less. the new city has incense near it so it would be a priority to road it.

Bomam Fortumam (good luck in Latin)

Pre-flight checks...
Rome is about to riot - hire Scientist & switch production to Settler
Pisae switches to Temple (we need those Spices)

press button
Incense deal with Greece expires - I renew giving Dyes for Incense + 10gpt
Veii Pike - Knight

1 - 560AD
Workers roading...
3 Knights move toward Kyoto
2 Knights move toward Karachi
We can make no impression on the tech pace using the slider so I stay at lone Scientist (Rome) and will use our gold to rush improvements.
I'll concentrate on Japan as we only have 2 Knights within striking distance of India

IBT
Alliance with Greece vs Japan comes up for renewal - I manage to reduce the cost from 25gpt to 11gpt
Cumae Knight - Catapult
Pompeii Pike - Knight
Lutetia Pike - Lib

2 - 570AD
Move units toward Japan
Upgrade Spear in Viroconium
Knights (en-route to Japan) fort to heal
Lux 0%
Hurry Temple in Pisae for 120gp

IBT
Tokyo falls to Greece
Pisae Temple - Worker

3 - 580AD
Syracuse founded - Temple
Elite Knight kills Indian Longbow
Workers road...

IBT
China & Korea sign Peace Treaty
Rome Knight - Library
Ravenna Knight - Worker (zero growth)

4 - 590AD
Knight (Ravenna) heads South to Karachi
Knight (Rome) heads NE to Kyoto
Buy WM & Furs from Carthage for WM, Dyes + 1gpt
Sell WM to Korea for WM, MA vs Egypt, MA vs India + 5gp (broke)
Swap WM with China
Sell WM to Carthage for WM + 5gp
Buy WM from Greece for WM + 3gp
Sell WM to Carthage for WM + 7gp

IBT
Antium Knight - Lib
Korea starts Bach's
Caesaraugusta founded - Barracks

5 - 600AD
[i]Kyoto has fallen to Greece Osaka (way up in the NE) is the new Capital
Knights head for Osaka
Knight (Antium) heads South
Elite Knight dies red-lining reg Elephant :(
Elite Knight kills 1/3 Elephant
Lutetia hurries Lib for 208gp
Swap WM with everyone to stay current

IBT
Renew RoP with Greece
Kagoshima falls to Greece
Cumae Cat - Pike
Pompeii Settler - Pike
Ravenna Worker - Pike
Lutetia Lib - Pike

6 - 610AD
Cat (Cumae) 3SE
Settler (Pompeii) 2S, 1SW (heading dor SW of Ravenna)
Sell RoP to China for WM

IBT
Veii Knight - Knight
Pisae Worker - Aqueduct
Viroconium Knight - Aqueduct

7 - 620AD
Knight (Veii) heads for Ravenna
3 Knights arrive SW Osaka
Incense hooked up
Neapolis hurries Aqueduct for 148gp
Hawk WM
Buy Invention + WM from Korea for WM, Horses + 19gpt

IBT
Osaka falls to Greece
We lose a Knight (in forest) to a reg Indian Longbow (across a river) - bloody RNG :mad:
Neapolis Aqueduct - Knight
Chengdu (China) completes Copernicus'

8 - 630AD
Kagoshima is the new Japanese Capital
Elite Knight kills 1/3 Longbow
2 Knights arrive NW of Kagoshima
Hawk WM

IBT
Greece takes Kagoshima

9 - 640AD
Nagasaki is now Japanese Capital
Knights head for Nagasaki
Hawk WM

IBT
Rome Lib - Settler
The people love me - add courtyard
Egypt starts Bach's

10 - 650AD
Knights arrive at Syracuse
Workers work...
I leave the trading for the next player

Our New Holdings
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-650AD.jpg

Notes and save follow...


Ted

Notes
We cannot increase our tech pace as we don't have enough Libraries (yet) or Universities to improve on the lone Scientist pace.
I bought Invention from Korea in a gpt deal. Carthage should wipe out Korea in the next couple of turns so we'll have a little extra in the coffers soon. The next player could try for another gpt for tech deal with them in the hope that Carthage will wipe them out :)
The 2 knights approaching Karachi should concentrate on pillaging Karachi's tiles before launching an attack on the city as this will reduce India's ability to produce more defenders. Send a couple more Knights down there to help out if you can.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-650AD-India.jpg

As soon as the second source of Spices is hooked up try to sell them - Greece has Gems but no Spices.
There is a Settler 3SW of Ravenna. He needs to move 1S (on river) once the Carthagian Merc & Worker move.
If we get the opportunity we should try & get an MA with Carthage vs India - they're right on the doorstep and could clear them out for us fairly quickly.
our Military support costs are currently 19gpt. We need to get those smaller towns up to pop 7 to lower this figure.
I've mainly played consolidation this turn to try and get us back into a position where we can launch an effective strike against our enemies. Chasing the Japanese Capital hasn't been much fun, every time I managed to get into position for an attack Greece managed to take it before I had a chance to strike :)

Breakdown of city builds and suggestions for next steps:
Rome - building Knight (6 turns) & will be helped by the forest chop 2SW - I suggest a Settler next
Byzantium - building Lib (4 turns) - could be cash rushed as it's in close proximity to the new Japanese Capital
Veii - building Knight (3 turns)- could use a forest chop in the not too distant future
Antium - building Lib (4 turns) - back to Knight/Pike when it completes
Cumae - building Pike (2 turns) - needs Aqueduct next & some more jungle clearing
Neapolis - building Knight (5 turns) - Needs some irrigation brought in from the SW
Pompeii - building Pike (1 turn) - This should be our Settler factory as it is capable of high food
Pisae - building Aqueduct (22 turns) - I've roaded the Spices and the Workers are presently clearing jungle - Needs more roads & more jungle clearing
Ravenna - building Pike (4 turns) - needs jungle clearing to grow - a Worker is presently chopping forest 2SW
Viroconium - building Aqueduct (7 turns) - needs Market then Library
Lutetia - building Aqueduct (10 turns) - will need Market then Library
Brundisium - building Barracks (5 turns) - not much growth potential here so some irrigation on the plains would be helpful
Syracuse - building Temple (53 turns) - needs rushing as it's encroaching on Nagasaki
Caesaraugusta - building Barracks (5 turns) - chop a river forest to allow irrigation

Trading is left for next player. Don't forget to trade the WM every turn even if you only end up swapping our WM for others.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-650AD.zip)


Ted

Got it.

Um, wow. Things look much better at first glance than I expected after the dire situation we were in during my last turns. Five native luxuries!! Very happy cities and a second core rapidly coming up to speed. 12 Knights available. 15 native workers.

Maybe I'm missing something but we appear to be pretty strong. We're way down on tech, but after Japan and India are nonfactors (India already is I think) we might be able to do some pointy stick research with a nonreligious civ.

I'm not sure when I'll play, and I haven't carefully red Ted's report yet, but I saved it to disk in case the forums go down and read it carefully and reread conehead's before I play.

Oh, I won't play before tonight but will probably check back in the forums, so any discussion can be factored into my turns.

Please don't start any new wars Puppeteer. At least not until Japan and India are finally removed from the game :)

Greece, China & Carthage are all growing quite strongly and we need to keep up so we musn't neglect infrastructure. i don't think we can hope to win this game before we get to Replaceable Parts and have Infantry & Artillery at our disposal.

So, for the time being, keeping our heads down and building our strength seems the best way to go. Unless you want a Knights vs Cav & Rifles war of course :)


Ted

Why are you building a temple in Syracuse. :confused: We are not allowed to do that. When a GPT deal ends with a civ that is killed wouldn't it kill our rep? How are we going to deal with Egypt after Japan and India is gone. We could try to land some troops near their capital using boats. Did you leave all of the victory conditions enabled?

Originally posted by conehead234
Why are you building a temple in Syracuse. :confused: We are not allowed to do that. Because I'm an idiot. I played in a hurry and forgot to refresh my memory before I started :)

Apologies and feel free to sell the temple I built in Pisae ASAP and switch Syracuse to a Library.


Ted

Yes all victory comditions are enabled. I do think we should at least send some troops on boats to Egypt. But they may be toast by the time we get there if almost everyone is still at war with them.

Yes If we have a Temple it must immediately be burnt down, ripped apart and get rid of all evidence that it ever existed!

Sorry, I didn't mean to worry you guys. When mentioning pointy stick research I was thinking big picture, not my 10 turns. But Ted may be right about knights vs. cavs soon. I won't start any new wars.

I'll burn the temples and hope Caesar doesn't hear about them. It's just further proof that Japan, India and Egypt must be annihilated.

I'm not playing tonight, and I haven't looked carefully at the situation yet so I don't have specific plans so far. Markets, Banks, Libraries and Universities would seem to be priorities in that order when I'm not building military or settlers, yes? (I know we don't have banking yet and most core cities already have markets.)

I notice Japan's latest captitol is right by our borders. :satan:

@all
When I said "I played in a hurry" I, of course, meant that that I was in a hurry to start playing :)

@Puppeter
Markets & Libraries are a priority everywhere that doesn't have them yet. If you can get the core cities building a University (in rotation) then that will help us both in culture & science.

Nagasaki is in easy striking distance & there are a few, possibly enough, units close enough to try on your first full turn.

@conehead
Yes, I think you're right about the rep hit. I guess I wasn't as clever as I thought. The good news is that the worst of the fallout will be with the civ that we broke the deal and they won't be around anyway :)


Ted

Server crashed tonight at work. Long day. Not gonna play tonight. Maybe tomorrow. Sorry.

intresting game you guys got going here :goodjob:

took a look at the latest saved game and looks like you guys are squeezed between powerhouse civs *ouch*

Hope it goes well for you guys, this is a tough game and I suggest you guys get some serious tech before you think of waging another war.

gl

Don't Got It :(

I'm really sorry guys, but I'm going to have to skip my turn.

My server at work has picked a really bad time to start being tempermental, and I've got vacation coming up in two days. That plus some other RL stuff leaves me not enough time to do what I need to do and no time for Civ.

I opened the save but didn't inhale. Er, I mean I havent taken any turns or actions at all, so the next player (OFW I think) can pick up Ted's save.

Also, I will be away from Civ3 and have intermittent internet access during my vacation from 11-21 through 11-29.

See you on the other side. Give India and Japan Hell for me.

Edit: Welcome to CivFan, Teknoice :wavey: Luckily we're friendly with the neighboring powerhouses for now. It's been dicey but things are looking better I think. I suppose it's a matter of surviving until we get cavalry.

Enjoy your hols Puppeteer,

We'll save some Egyptians for your return :D


Ted
p.s. Welcome to CFC Teknoice. Hope to see you playing in an SG soon :)

Originally posted by conehead234
Sorry for the delay, here are the turns.

Preturn (450 AD)- Attack Chinese sword with elite legion- win
kill 2 chinese MI with knights. Press enter and pray ...

Turn 1 (460 AD)- Troop movements press enter and pray (emphasis added)

What's with all the praying? I thought you guys were atheists? :lol:

Okay, I will play by thursday. I have to reread ted's report and get prepared. It looks pretty good right now with India and Japan being beaten down! Being that there are some huge supernations it is going to get pretty tough.

Welcome Teknoice, I also hope to see ya in an SG soon!!

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
(emphasis added)

What's with all the praying? I thought you guys were atheists? :lol:
:rotfl:


Ted

Puppateer, you said you would have intermittant access from the 21 to 29, well being that that week is also a busy week for me usually(food, football and family:) ) If it is cool with everyone next week, everyone can just play when they have time. No need to rush or worry about taking too long.

Does that sound cool with everyone?

OK with me :)


Ted

Cool w/me.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
Puppateer, you said you would have intermittant access from the 21 to 29, well being that that week is also a busy week for me usually(food, football and family:) )I'll admit I'll have decent internet access next week but probably won't be using it much if at all because of visiting family.

But I won't have Civ3 with me, anyway.

:hmm: Now I'm confused about what OFW meant. I promise I won't be able to play any turns in this SG before Nov 30th. I assumed you meant it was your (OFW's) turn and you'll get to it when you can, and so forth through next week. That's cool. If you mean you'll wait for me I want you to understand it will be over a week.

Anyway, you probably have it all in hand and I'm just getting confused. I'm a little bit goofy anyway, sitting here at work by the server watching and waiting for it to start misbehaving like I know it will soon. Hopefully I can figure out why it's doing it this time.

:mischief: :satan: <-- My server

No, I said I will play probably Thursday, but when we come around to the next round of turns, there will be no hurry.

Cool?

good luck with the devil server!

Hey guys, I really cannot concentrate on this at the moment. I have a tooth that is driving me crazy and I can't get into the dentist until Monday. I could play some over the next 2 to 3 days, but If ya wanna skip me and play conehead234 that would be fine also.

It's up to you if ya wanna bear with me or not.

I'll play. I will do it tomorrow

Thanks, and sorry about that.

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
I have a tooth that is driving me crazy and I can't get into the dentist until Monday.
Ouch!

I recommend Whisky & Cloves (or oil of Cloves).


Ted

Preturn- Burn down the Temple in Pisae.

IBT- Greece has cavs!

Turn 1 (660 AD)- Buy gunpowder from Korea for WM 26 GPT and 207 gold, We have 2 saltpeter,

Trade Saitpeter to Carthage for Astronomy, Banking and WM. Kill 3 spears and raze Nagasaki.

Movements.

IBT- The last Korean City has fallen but apparently they have escaped on a boat.

Turn 2 (670 AD)- Sign Carthage in Alliance vs Egyptians for WM 17 GPT and 101 gold. Wait

there is a korean archer settler pair south of Antium. Movements

IBT- Koreans settle Kaesong south of Antium.

Turn 3 (680 AD)- Settle Palmayra, Pillage roads around Karachi. Movements

IBT- Sign china in alliance vs Egypt for WM 16 GPT and 45 GOLD. CHina builds JS Bach.

Greece takes Shimonoseki.

Turn 4 (690 AD) - Get Alliance vs Indians with Korea for Nothing. Continue to pillage around Karachi.

IBT- the Koreans have captured Jaipur from the Indians! :eek:

Turn 5 (700 AD)- Movements.

IBT- Nada

Turn 6 (710AD)- Movements

IBT- Nada

Turn 7 (720 AD)- Movements

IBT- Greeks built Smiths. and Korea has taken Lahore. :eek:

Turn 8 (730 AD)- Geez those Koreans are making a comeback. :eek:

IBT- Indians take back Lahore.

Turn 9 (740 AD)- Nada

IBT- NADA

Turn 10 (750 AD)- Nada

Things are starting to look better. Japan has 2 cities left, India is being wooped by korea and Kariachi is cut off from the rest of India. Egypt is also crumbling. Fighting may be over for now, it is time to catch up and conguer the world.



SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-750AD.SAV)

Seems like things are going OK. Thanks for skipping me, I have not played any civ now for 2 day's I just cannot concentrate. But a plus, I can get my tooth taken care of today.
So Ted is up and If Ted plays and Puppateer does not play or say he can play I will be able to do so by Tuesday.

So we just need to finish off the Japanese and Indians and build our Empire(military)(with side trips to Egypt) and look towards the Future.

There is a large reserve of knight near Antium if Ted wants to kill Korea.

Got it

Play tomorrow evening.


Ted

Well,

things went a little screwy at the weekend so I'll play tonight.

Sorry.


Ted

No problem, take your time. I won't be able to play until tomorrow or wednesday. Unless Puppateer says he can.

Pre-flight checks... OK

Matsuyama is Japanese Capital
Wake 5 Knights (Antium) and send them South to India
Hawk WM - picking up Music Theory on the way :)

Press button
Incense deal with ??? expires

1 - 760AD
Knights continue South
Hawk WM

IBT
Korea & India sign Peace Treaty
MA with Greece vs Japan comes up for renewal (was costing 11gpt) - renew for same price but I get their WM as well

2 - 770AD
Knights continue South
Workers work
Hawk WM

IBT
Korea & Carthage sign Peace Treaty
Cumae Aqueduct - Knight

3 - 780AD
Knights continue South
Workers work
Hawk WM
Buy Gems from China for Dyes + 5gpt

IBT
Greece destroys Japan
Greece starts Newton's (ToG)

4 - 790AD
Knights continue South
Workers work
Hawk WM

IBT
Greece declares war on Carthage :)
Renew Furs for Dyes from Carthage - it costs us 5gpt
Viroconium Lib - Market

5 - 800AD
Knights continue South
Workers work
Hawk WM

IBT
RoP with Greece comes up for renewal - it would cost 7gpt so I decline

6 - 810AD
Knights continue South
Workers work
Hawk WM

IBT
China & Egypt sign Peace Treaty :(
RoP with China expires
The people love me - add Pillars
China starts Newton's (ToG)

7 - 820AD
Knighta arrive at Karachi
Workers work
Hawk WM

IBT
Rome Bank - Knight
Byzantium Market - Aqueduct
Veii University - Musket

8 - 830AD
Assault on Karachi:
Vet Knight kills reg Pike
Vet Knight kills reg Pike & promotes 4/5
Elite Knight kills vet Spear and razes Karachi including the Great Lighthouse (Calcutta is their new Capital)
Hawk WM

9 - 840AD
Knights heal
Workers work
Hawk WM

10 - 850AD
Knights still healing
Workers work

Notes
Slow, steady progress I'm afraid
We couldn't manage an improvement on the tech pace without running at a deficit so I chose to run minimum tech and build up our treasury to allow the next player some options to trade for techs.
Two universities, 2 Markets & 2 Banks will come online during the next player's turn to allow us to self-research at a better pace.
We have 7 Knights within striking distance of Calcutta (some are still healing).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-850AD.jpg

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/OFW2-850AD.zip)


Ted

Good turns. Now it is time to catch up and conquer the world. This is going to be a close game.

I will get the game tonight. Barring major problems I should post by tomorrow night. I am switching from dial up to Cable tonight, so If there are no probs...

good set of turns ted, maybe I can take care of India and maybe get us some tech(s)

hey guys, sorry! I got really busy last night and tonight. I will play by Friday. K? you know turkey day and all, plus I only have 1 day off from work a week right at the moment. But I do have a 5 day weekend!!:)

will post by Friday Morn!

Life happens :)

Play well, not fast :D


Ted

Take your time.

I tried to open the save file and it tells me that it is corupt or invalid. I had this problem with a zip file in my last game. Could you please put the save here again?

I just downloaded, extracted and tested the save.

Works fine here so try downloading again. I recommend using a download manager (GetRight, Flashget etc.) as IE can be a problem.


Ted

It worked for me. Here is the save unzipped.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OFW2-850AD.SAV)

Thanks, I got it, but being that I am almost out of time today. I probably won't get it done. BUT. If Puppateer shows up tonight tomorrow and I have not posted yet then he is free to take it. Or I will get it on here sunday night/mondauy morn if I run out of time today(pretty likely and I am sorry bad, BAD me!)

I'm back, but OFW go ahead and play. I'm in no rush to play. Need to settle back into home and figure out WTH is happening at work.

Okay, sorry it took so long. my other SG is done so this is the only one I am playing now.

preturn fine

IBT Carthage and Egypt sign peace:mad:

1. 860AD Cumae knight>knight
Neapolis Bank>knight
move knights toeds calcutta
move 3 knights next to Kores capitol Kaesong
I declare war on Korea and attack
lose knight redline spear
kill spear with elite knight
kill spear and promote knight to elite
lose another knight to spear:mad:

IBT Korea longbow appears. Carthage Greek battles

2. 870AD Pisae Aqueduct>worker
Kill spear and lose another knight at Kaesong
Knights arrive at Calcutta

IBT more Greek/Carthage battles

3. 880AD Rome Knight Knight
Veii Musket>settler
Antium University>knight
Lutetia marketplace>settler
kill spear in Kaesong
kill pike at calcutta
kill spear at Calcutta and raze the city:D
new capitol is Madras
Rush Libraries in Syracuse,Caesaraugusta and Palmyra

4. 890AD Pompeii university>knight
Syracuse Library>worker
Caesaraugusta Library>worker
Palmyra Library>worker
attack Kaesong
kill spear and burn Kaesong to the ground. new capitol is Pusan(it must have flipped back during the last turn or 2 from Carthage)
Trade wm around and and trade 474 gold to China for Navigation.

5. 900AD Veii Settler>bank
upgrade pike to musket
Pisae worker>library
Viraconium marketplace>settler

IBT India wants to talk, no, of course. India Longbow kills 1 of our knights outside Madras
Greece demands TM and 25 gold, I give it to them.

6. 910AD Since Koreas capitol is furhther away I sign Peace with them and get WM and Economics for WM and 129 gold.
Kill India longbow
Elite knight kills pike at Madras
knight kills spear and burn down Madras.
new capitol is Lahore

IBT India settles a city right by the 1 just burnt down:mad:
7. 920AD Lutetia Settler>bank
upgrade 2 pikes to muskets

8. 930AD Rome knight>university
Neapolis knight>settler
Viraconium Settler>musket
Syracuse worker>worker
Caesaraugusta worker>catapult
Found Jerusalem-Library
Attack Lahore, kill longbow and burn down Lahore. Kolhapur is new capitol.
Trade WM's around and notice that Greece is building Railroads.

IBT China demands 29 gold and TM, I give it to them.
Greece and Carthage sign Peace treaty.

9. 940AD Antium knight>settler
Cumae knight worker
build Caesarea-barracks

attack Kolhapur, kill spear and burn it down
New Capitol is Bengal on East coast(4 knights are on there way through the Jungle)

10. 950AD Pamyra worker>worker

There is a settler that will stop to build in the Jungle(musket is already there) We need to get citys in as many places as we can and try to trade our way up in techs. I never increased science and we are 11 turns from Chemistry. We may want to not research any more ATM after Chemitryu and just try to trade our way into the next era.
At the rate we are going everyone is so far ahead, we will need to be a peaceful bunch.
Egypt has 1 city left and we are the only ones at war with them.
India has 2 citys left we have 4 knights on the way to Bengal and knights all around the area of there new city and workers heading back to our homeland. Korea only has 2 citys left. Maybe after the peace treaty is over we could have some knights on the way there and kill them?

Anyway, good luck conehead234. Hopefully you will get the knights to Bengal during your turns.

Here is the

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OFW2_950_AD.SAV)

where is the save? it can't see it.

Hmmm? It is the word save. Is this the same prob as last time?

it is after wher it says " here is the"

can anyone else see the save besides myself?

Yep,

I can see it and have downloaded it.


Ted

It is the same problem as last time.

did you look in the uploads 6 folder to try to get it that way

How about this? Obviously you'll have to cut & Paste :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OFW2_950_AD.SAV

If you can't get it from the above link then PM me with your email and I'll send it that way.



Ted

I got it. Thanks

Conehead,

Just out of interest... can you see the two links in OFW's sig?


Ted

Yea and i began playing the save and i think our rep is shot. We can't trade GPT for techs.

All part of the rich pagaent that is Civ :D


Ted