Hell yea.
Im heavily into RTS's and anything blizzard is always good.I've always found Blizzard games to easy and simple minded. Kill everything, you win. I beat Warcraft III in a week. Diablo 2 was mastered in a mater of 2 weeks and then I had several maxed characters on Battle.net within a couple of months. That's all with living a life and holding a job. I think Blizzard games are beautiful to look at, but they bore me too quickly. Not complex enough. I've looked at this WoW and turned down a shot and trying to beta test it. It does look like a major improvement over their former games. I'm going to wait to try it though. Sorry ED for being off-topic.

More on topic: I'm glad to hear you're down to 3 more units. I wanted very much to beta test 2.0. If only I had the time. I know it will be great. I only hope I can reach the greatness of your mods with my own. :worship:

I like Blizzard's games. Starcraft will always be my favorite though. It has the best story out of any of the others hands down. Though I really love the Warcraft series as well.

Well believe me or not, but it's the wrong way... mods that started this way usually never got finished. Unit making really takes a lot of time, and units stats etc. are not a problem, those get done in one 15 minutes, you may just change things later during the game. And I mentioned earlier, Kinboat made a Skaven model already, I just need plenty of time to make whole set for them using it as a base.

Cool will still try on and off. I want to learn anyway. Might as well do something I find interesting.

If you ever need another beta tester let me know. Can't wait until 2.0 comes out.

:thanx:
Thank you Embryodead. I suppose im a bit late coming to your mod, but having downloaded it 4 days ago, Ive almost forgotten what "normal" civilisation is.
This has got to be the best mod Ive come across yet........... and there are some wonderful mods floating about.
If i was a woman I'd have yer babies.
Cant wait for 2.0

I've been playing as chaos...... and recently came across Dwaves moving in the mountains without roads. I thought, how cool is that.

What a well thought out, different mod.
Let me know if the praise is getting sickening.LOL.

Is it possible to clear swamp in this modification?

@Scrubber. No.

Yeah, I'd love to include Skaven, Chaos Dwarfs and Beastmen in future, but again, that means months of unit-making. So I can't promise anything at the moment.

If you were to make a decision between the three, I would suggest (not that my suggestion means a whole lot) going with Skaven, with Chaos Dwarves secondary. A beastmen faction would be cool, but it really isn't so neccessary or really all that unique (in comparison to Skaven anyway). For another thing, can you really see the beastmen fighting seperately from Chaos, maybe even *against* them? To me, even with the excuse that Chaos often has infighting, that is just wierd. I don't know the current Warhammer timeline with all that anyway, though (when I played, there was no separation and the only archer units available to Chaos were Centaurs lol).

In any case, I wanted to give my my two cents about the mod. First off, I don't have Conquests, so I've been playing the latest PTW version, and I must say it is pretty cool. You balanced everything fairly well from what I've seen, though admittedly I've been playing Chaos, and they seem pretty powerful when the human player takes em, anyway. I'm sure it's a different story when the comp plays them. It probably wouldn't take out the Dolgans, an essential thing to control that block of the world.

I won't go into too much detail about the pros and cons, if you will, since I assume you've altered quite a bit between versions. I do have to complain a little bit about the veracity of the Chaos line...Etti--I mean Chaos Giants? They're an awesome unit in the game, but not exactly an essential inclusion in warhammer Chaos. The same for 'Chaos Spiders'.

Okay, sorry about that, just 'had' to say it, ya know. Chaos is kind of like my warhammer equivelant of a favorite icecream. I understand the time and effort limitations, and certainly wish I could help out (on the Chaos end anyway...). I will say the Archaon leaderhead is awesome (along with most of the others) and I took a look into the leader comments text file or whatever and I see alot of time went into changing around the flavor text. I especially like the eloquent Khemri (I assume) quotes along the lines of, 'Grrr...' and so forth. Brilliance! :)

So in conclusion, the game is quite fun, though I regret playing it on Regent level because I'm sweeping the world like a plague...bearer. Nonetheless, it *was* fun to watch the Empire fall like a miniature goliath. Chaos Giants never lost a single battle the whole time. Harder we fall *this* midgets! Hahaha!

Sidenote: for the Chaos Dwarf leaderhead, you could probably rip it off some Wario game. He's a dead ringer for a Chaos Dwarf, you gotta admit...

I strongly recommend the Skaven if you add even one civ later on, especially if you have the first couple units done (haven't checked recently but I thought I saw they were going to be barbs) because they'd be by far the most unique - such wonderful warpstone weapons plus the Rat-Ogre!

...First off, I don't have Conquests, so I've been playing the latest PTW version, ...In my biased opinion C3C is worth the money (if you have to pay for it, I didn't :mischief: ) just for WH 2.0 and the Master of Myrror mods.

I disagree. Chaos should be a normal tribe and at one point discover "the dark side of the force". Just as Reikland, Tilea or Bretonia discovered and chose the "not so dark side" of magic. Magic in Warhammer corupts and is inherantly dangerous. If you don't respect it and just use it indisciminently it will corrupt you and make you a vassal of the dark lords. It's an inbuilt conflict into the warhammer universe and part of the thing that made me like it and become fascinated by it. The one thing that is the most powerfull is also the one thing that's is the most dangerous, (much like our world's nuclear power).

The use of magic has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Northern Tribes are the closest to the great Warp Gate in the north and thus are far more subject to the corrupting influences of Chaos. Chaos does not need you to know of it or start using magic (I don't know where you got this idea), it reaches out deliberately and purposefully to corrupt through peoples weak will and emotional vices.
The people in the North find that many of their children are born mutants simply because of the proximity to the Warp gate. Some tribes which know of Chaos and its corruption will murder these children as soon as they are born...most have already fallen to Chaos and worship the Chaos Gods by different names, they consider mutation a blessing. Bretonnia, the Empire and all the powerful realms of Man are far further from the source of the worlds corruption, experience very little mutation and their people have a strong running theme of only becoming corrupted when they seek knowledge of Chaos (for reasons benign or malevolent), or already having knowledge of Chaos and then experiencing a serious emotional trauma that aloows them to be subtly corrupted by the promise of Chaos.

It is a well documented fact that the men of the Old World were given knowledge of magic by the Elves. Although magic is the use of the howling winds of magic pouring out of the Warp Gate on the Old Worlds northern pole, it is the fact that wizards are educated, knowledgeable men who know of Chaos which corrupts them. Some go looking for chaotic secrets and are subsequently claimed when they do something stupid. The men of the North are often granted arcane ability through being chosen of their God, unlike in the Empire where you apply to the Colleges.

It's no use dividing the conflict between them into a good vs evil struggle since neither side is better than the other. The Reikland Inqusition is probably the most evil organisation in the entire WH-universe and they were formed to battle Chaos and upphold the human moral values. The followers of the Chaos-god Slaanesh are not evil in any way. They just want to have a good time and like to indulge themselves, something that is seen with great distaste by "normal" humans. A "good" human sacrifices himself for his society and suffers. Narcisism and self love is something to combat and destroy. Followers of Nurgle aren't evil either, they just feel that death and decay is something to look forward to, quite understandable considering the humans opressive society and suffocating religions.

Chaos is undeniably evil. All the Chaos Gods demand blood sacrifice for any magic of significant scope, and commit the most brutal, evil genocides upon their enemies. Not simply rape, pillage and murder Crusade style, they will kill ritualistically for their own amusement or pleasure. People will die screaming and their remains used to defile holy places, daub chaotic altars and their blood used to paint the walls with icons and words.

Chaos is undeniably evil, yes, since it's a relfection of all the evil in the world. Heh, I've been reading more about Chaos in the last few days to keep up with this talk- I never realised that the Norse, Dolgans and Ungols/ Hung were all devout followers of Chaos. Mind you, as with Raptorclaw, when I played, Chaos were very different, they had regular centaurs, and the Norse were basically a bunch of berserkers who sailed in longships from their region and that was it. Maybe the Chaos should be semi-renamed to the Kurgan (In the same manner the Dark and High Elves are Naggaroth and Ulthuan) to make it clear whom they are... [Edit: if Beasts of Chaos got their own civ, I mean]

Chaos is undeniably evil, yes, since it's a relfection of all the evil in the world. Heh, I've been reading more about Chaos in the last few days to keep up with this talk- I never realised that the Norse, Dolgans and Ungols/ Hung were all devout followers of Chaos. Mind you, as with Raptorclaw, when I played, Chaos were very different, they had regular centaurs, and the Norse were basically a bunch of berserkers who sailed in longships from their region and that was it. Maybe the Chaos should be semi-renamed to the Kurgan (In the same manner the Dark and High Elves are Naggaroth and Ulthuan) to make it clear whom they are...

Yeah I preferred the Norse being a pure human race with no chaotic influences. They would be far cooler as independants, fiercely fighting off any forces of Chaos that come close, and raiding everyone else for what they want. They'd have no friends at all, it would be great. :D
They seem to have removed the Centaurs...I never liked them myself. They were too expensive for use as missile troops, and I'd rather have more mighty Chaos Warriors! 'Course, in typical GW style they've taken a piss all over the game dynamic and given Chaos the best ranged unit the game has ever seen in its entire existence for the current campaign....to complement them having the best hand to hand abilities. Obviously they're not loading the dice like they did with 40k....:rolleyes:

Chaos is undeniably evil.

hmm... Well documented fact?! It's just a game, and I do think it's up to debate. All texts are written in a biased tone. They are always written through the eyes of either "normal" humans or through the eyes of Chaos followers. I've got both of the Chaos books and I just don't see how all "Chaos is undeniably evil".

And what is evil is also up to debate. I think that Khorne and Tzeentch are evil. But that's only because I find their values offensive. "Blood for the blood god". People finding glory in war isn't hard to find. Reminds quite a lot of Neo-Nazi Skinheads don't you think? I really don't think they view themselves as evil. Neither did the Nazies of Nazi germany. Tzeentch on the other hand avoid confrontation and try to do as little damage as possible. They corrupt our leaders from within to suit there own goals of world dominantion. Sounds a lot like ordinary politics to me. Pure evil in other words.

Nurgle is NOT evil. Just read the books, it's all in there. Followers of Nurgle refer to him as "father Nurgle" the one that releases them from the suffering of life by spreading his disease. All the followers believe they are doing is giving people a helping hand. A detail people seldom realize is that Nurgle or Great Unclean ones are always depicted as laughing. As for Slaneesh, a band of sex-crazed junkie glutons is hardly evil in my book. But I wouldn't ask the pope about it. Sex and substance abuse I would rather call a sickness or just lack of discipline, (or to some just being perfectly healthy). It's all in the mind of the beholder.

Evil for me is about intent to do harm. But as I said, it's up to debate. Is harming people even though you think you're helping them evil? Missguided more likely, but not evil.
-Tom

They seem to have removed the Centaurs...I never liked them myself. They were too expensive for use as missile troops, and I'd rather have more mighty Chaos Warriors! 'Course, in typical GW style they've taken a piss all over the game dynamic and given Chaos the best ranged unit the game has ever seen in its entire existence for the current campaign....to complement them having the best hand to hand abilities. Obviously they're not loading the dice like they did with 40k....:rolleyes:

They have removed centaurs, although in the 5 or so years I played they never even had models made for them anyway, so it made little difference. Now instead there are centigors, Beastman centaurs, which reflect Chaos much more nicely. I like the new Hellcannon (I wanted someone to make a unit for it, but I think it was just too difficult), and if you're bothered about the new dynamic it adds, just remember there was nothing to stop a Chaos player allying with Chaod Dwarfs an edition or two back and including their war machines then... okay, enough off-mod stuff from me.

hmm... Well documented fact?! It's just a game, and I do think it's up to debate. All texts are written in a biased tone. They are always written through the eyes of either "normal" humans or through the eyes of Chaos followers. I've got both of the Chaos books and I just don't see how all "Chaos is undeniably evil".

And what is evil is also up to debate. I think that Khorne and Tzeentch are evil. But that's only because I find their values offensive. "Blood for the blood god". People finding glory in war isn't hard to find. Reminds quite a lot of Neo-Nazi Skinheads don't you think? I really don't think they view themselves as evil. Neither did the Nazies of Nazi germany. Tzeentch on the other hand avoid confrontation and try to do as little damage as possible. They corrupt our leaders from within to suit there own goals of world dominantion. Sounds a lot like ordinary politics to me. Pure evil in other words.

Nurgle is NOT evil. Just read the books, it's all in there. Followers of Nurgle refer to him as "father Nurgle" the one that releases them from the suffering of life by spreading his disease. All the followers believe they are doing is giving people a helping hand. A detail people seldom realize is that Nurgle or Great Unclean ones are always depicted as laughing. As for Slaneesh, a band of sex-crazed junkie glutons is hardly evil in my book. But I wouldn't ask the pope about it. Sex and substance abuse I would rather call a sickness or just lack of discipline, (or to some just being perfectly healthy). It's all in the mind of the beholder.

Evil for me is about intent to do harm. But as I said, it's up to debate. Is harming people even though you think you're helping them evil? Missguided more likely, but not evil.
-Tom

Well this is a pointless debate since you appear to be just shoving the goalposts of human morality around. Chaos seeks to impose its will upon all human life, it's the universal human moral compass that's in use here. People don't want to become disease ridden filthbags and consider it no pleasure, it has always been that these people have been corrupted by the Gods and twisted beyond what they were. Niether do they want to be shredded for ritual. Niether do they want their homes invaded and destroyed. Niether do they want to become slaves to the will of the Chaos Gods. Niether do they want their souls consumed.

Chaos is a genocidal horde of religious zealots, all of whom, from the mightiest Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes to the lowliest cannon fodder, are slaves with no free will to the whims of the Chaos Gods. I don't know what's more horrifying, Chaos itself or people thinking it isn't evil.

The Emperor drove the forces of Chaos from horus in their final battle....when Horus reclaimed his mind, he wept. The mightiest of all primarchs wept because he knew the evils he had committed for Chaos. I'd say he has more extensive experience in the field of what it's like to be a follower of Chaos.

Well this is a pointless debate since you appear to be just shoving the goalposts of human morality around. Chaos seeks to impose its will upon all human life, it's the universal human moral compass that's in use here. People don't want to become disease ridden filthbags and consider it no pleasure, it has always been that these people have been corrupted by the Gods and twisted beyond what they were. Niether do they want to be shredded for ritual. Niether do they want their homes invaded and destroyed. Niether do they want to become slaves to the will of the Chaos Gods. Niether do they want their souls consumed.

Chaos is a genocidal horde of religious zealots, all of whom, from the mightiest Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes to the lowliest cannon fodder, are slaves with no free will to the whims of the Chaos Gods. I don't know what's more horrifying, Chaos itself or people thinking it isn't evil.

The Emperor drove the forces of Chaos from horus in their final battle....when Horus reclaimed his mind, he wept. The mightiest of all primarchs wept because he knew the evils he had committed for Chaos. I'd say he has more extensive experience in the field of what it's like to be a follower of Chaos.

I'm not saying you are wrong. All I'm saying is that it's open to debate. And I believe it's intentional from the side of the GW authors. Yes, the minions of Chaos are slaves to their gods. But the human countries persecute and hunt down all who don't fanatically worship their gods. Any deviants, sick or weak are either persecuted by the Inquisition or by the mobs of religious zealots. Not being able to express a deviating opinion is hardly "free".

In D&D gods and followers are clearly marked evil or good. All orcs are by default chaotic evil. Good paladins don't ask for kick-backs. This labeling has been completely omited from the WH-world and I believe it's intentional. The reason I would guess would be partly to set it apart from D&D and partly because it is a enhanced copy of our world. Therefor the human religions are very similar to the old practices of the Catholic church and "Evil" is only the sum result of a societies actions and absolutely not the intention. The same reason why Horus wept for his own actions.

If you believe the Old World is a clear cut good/evil construct. Fine. It's so well constructed so it can be viewed it in such away. But when GW made the religions and societies they drew so much from our world that I find that the borders of your clear cut moral compass become very blured. The humans are off-course so hard on deviants out of necessity. Otherwise it would desintigrate from the onslaught of Chaos/orcs/skaven and whatnot. Don't you find it interesting that the GW authors chose the word "Forces of Chaos" and not Forces of Evil. The conflict in the Old world is more likely Order vs Chaos and not Good vs Evil The minions of Chaos are arguably more "free" than the human armies.

Isn't it also a quite possible idea that the followers of Chaos at one point chose to join Chaos of their own free will only later to find themselves "trapped". ie when their bodies are warped to a degree that they are shunned by fellow humans. If the gods of Chaos can impose themsleves upon people from outside as you say, why does Slaanesh have their orgies? Why care what their minions want and desire? The Chaos gods constantly give their minions gifts and various bribes. That to me doesn't sound like slaves with no will. I believe that the Chaos cultists very much want to be slaves of the Chaos gods. Why do people in our society do drugs even if we know it very likely will harm us and might even make us slaves to it.

"it's the universal human moral compass", I believe you just made that up. I've never seen it and I probably never will. I'm going to need some examples here. But that's a completely different discussion, so let's just not have it. And followers of Nurgle actually do want to become disease ridden filthbags. Does Budhism ring a bell here. It's the same principle. "The want of life is suffering. It's better to just stop the wanting". Budhist monks don't sit around their whole lives half naked just eating rice and beans for fun. Well actually, they do but that's also a completely different discussion.

Sorry if I'm ranting but I find this discussion very interesting. Please tell me to stop if you think it's completely irrelevant.
-Tom

Lord Khorak. I believe you are reasoning the way you are because you want your WH-world to fit into your vision of a fantasy universe, (as do I no doubt). Nothing wrong with that, that's what fiction is all about. I'm just trying to widen our horizons here, and above all create a more interesting pallet to build a WH civ mod from.
-Tom

I can´t get the MOD working - i have download all the files and u-zip them, but I cant load the game or install it (if i needs to bee install?)

I have Vanilla Civilization 3
KR

Metaldog - It will not work on Vanilla Civ - You need PTW at the minimum to run 1.03, and Conquests to run 1.11. Sorry

Vanadorn

PS: Drzoidberg and others - very nice! I like the views and rationale on the Chaos. The most poignent item: Chaos is not called evil, just Chaos. Chaos is the opposite of order, not the opposite of good. Free will and hedonism as the same bedfellows.

I'm not saying you are wrong. All I'm saying is that it's open to debate. And I believe it's intentional from the side of the GW authors. Yes, the minions of Chaos are slaves to their gods. But the human countries persecute and hunt down all who don't fanatically worship their gods. Any deviants, sick or weak are either persecuted by the Inquisition or by the mobs of religious zealots. Not being able to express a deviating opinion is hardly "free".
The whole point, in Fantasy AND 40k, is that the evil of Chaos is so great, so corrupting and unrelenting, such 'evil' methods as Witch Hunting and Inquisition is necessary to prevent the entirety of humanity falling to Chaos. THAT is the gray area, Chaos is specifically designed and is blatantly a monsterous tide of evil that feeds off of human excesses, thus forcing humanity to commit its own evils merely to survive. In Warhammer Fantasy it is a flat out lie that fanatical worship of Gods is necessary, and it is numbingly obvious in both Fantasy and 40k literature that the vast majority of humans maintain a belief in their respective Gods no greater than a typical medieval European peasant. In fact, many are merely going through the motions, religion has no real impact on their lives...until the point a Daemon tries to tear their face off or a holy miracle happens.

In D&D gods and followers are clearly marked evil or good. All orcs are by default chaotic evil. Good paladins don't ask for kick-backs. This labeling has been completely omited from the WH-world and I believe it's intentional. The reason I would guess would be partly to set it apart from D&D and partly because it is a enhanced copy of our world. Therefor the human religions are very similar to the old practices of the Catholic church and "Evil" is only the sum result of a societies actions and absolutely not the intention. The same reason why Horus wept for his own actions.

A great many game systems don't maintain a defined table of alignments. This smells far too much like a fat red herring flopping its way away from the point. In any case, I doubt GW ever contemplated that anyone would see a gray area in a rampaging horde of genocidal psychotics cutting out peoples insides for fun and ritual, and, in the case of the poor townspeople of Praag, melding them in what would have been eternal suffering to their very town. Oh yeah, very 'gray area' that is.

If you believe the Old World is a clear cut good/evil construct. Fine. It's so well constructed so it can be viewed it in such away. But when GW made the religions and societies they drew so much from our world that I find that the borders of your clear cut moral compass become very blured. The humans are off-course so hard on deviants out of necessity. Otherwise it would desintigrate from the onslaught of Chaos/orcs/skaven and whatnot. Don't you find it interesting that the GW authors chose the word "Forces of Chaos" and not Forces of Evil. The conflict in the Old world is more likely Order vs Chaos and not Good vs Evil The minions of Chaos are arguably more "free" than the human armies.
I don't believe that it is a clear cut good/evil universe, please don't put words in my mouth I don't appreciate it. I said Chaos is. And it is. The nations of man are nothing more than copies of European influences, and as expected their feudal systems leave much to be argued in morality.
The minions of Chaos are not arguably more free in any way, shape or form. That's a preposterous idea. Every single time Chaos goes to war it does so behind uncountable hordes of men enslaved to the will of Chaos. I don't find it interesting they named them the Hordes of Chaos, because Chaos is what they epitomise. They sow death, destruction, pain, suffering and annihilate order. Spreading Chaos is what they do, the fact they're evil is a no brainer.

Isn't it also a quite possible idea that the followers of Chaos at one point chose to join Chaos of their own free will only later to find themselves "trapped". ie when their bodies are warped to a degree that they are shunned by fellow humans. If the gods of Chaos can impose themsleves upon people from outside as you say, why does Slaanesh have their orgies? Why care what their minions want and desire? The Chaos gods constantly give their minions gifts and various bribes. That to me doesn't sound like slaves with no will. I believe that the Chaos cultists very much want to be slaves of the Chaos gods. Why do people in our society do drugs even if we know it very likely will harm us and might even make us slaves to it.

Many humans freely follow Chaos and become ensnared. What's your point exactly. The fact that the Gods appreciate a follower who gets results is hardly an argument for free will. They still do what they're told, and those who fail recieve so much mutation they become blobs. Yeah. Free.
"it's the universal human moral compass", I believe you just made that up. I've never seen it and I probably never will. I'm going to need some examples here. But that's a completely different discussion, so let's just not have it. And followers of Nurgle actually do want to become disease ridden filthbags. Does Budhism ring a bell here. It's the same principle. "The want of life is suffering. It's better to just stop the wanting". Budhist monks don't sit around their whole lives half naked just eating rice and beans for fun. Well actually, they do but that's also a completely different discussion.

Sorry if I'm ranting but I find this discussion very interesting. Please tell me to stop if you think it's completely irrelevant.
-Tom

DON'T KILL. DON'T STEAL. Examples of universal human morality.

First of all this mod seriosly kicks ass compared to the rest.

But my point is will there be lizard men in a future patch just quite like to see them in the mod. Anyway keep the good work up v2 will rock :)

The lizardmen are in the next version, with almost every unit of theirs in the game. Hurrah!

Fantasy it is a flat out lie that fanatical worship of Gods is necessary, and it is numbingly obvious in both Fantasy and 40k literature that the vast majority of humans maintain a belief in their respective Gods no greater than a typical medieval European peasant. In fact, many are merely going through the motions, religion has no real impact on their lives...until the point a Daemon tries to tear their face off or a holy miracle happens.

Yes, you are right and I am wrong. I did a little research. But that doesn't make the Inquisition any less evil. The closer we get to the Chaos wastes the more vigilant the people have to be to keep themselves pure. So I guess it isn't a total "lie".


A great many game systems don't maintain a defined table of alignments. This smells far too much like a fat red herring flopping its way away from the point. In any case, I doubt GW ever contemplated that anyone would see a gray area in a rampaging horde of genocidal psychotics cutting out peoples insides for fun and ritual, and, in the case of the poor townspeople of Praag, melding them in what would have been eternal suffering to their very town. Oh yeah, very 'gray area' that is.

Since D&D was and is the dominant gamesystem I would guess that I'm actually right on what they were attempting. But we're both just guessing. When you say "rampaging horde of genocidal psychotics cutting out peoples insides for fun and ritual" that's very clearly seen from the eyes of the humans. The followers of Chaos might just want to indulge a little, and if bones are broken and people are hurt it's all for the greater glory of their god. Or something along those lines. It's quite possible to argue both sides. Do the followers of Chaos try to justify their actions moraly or do they just laugh it off in a I'm-really-evil-and-couldn't-care-less crazy laugh? I think we just don't agree on this one.

I at least hope we can agree on that there is very little good anywhere in the WH-universe. It's a very grim place.


I don't believe that it is a clear cut good/evil universe, please don't put words in my mouth I don't appreciate it. I said Chaos is. And it is. The nations of man are nothing more than copies of European influences, and as expected their feudal systems leave much to be argued in morality.
The minions of Chaos are not arguably more free in any way, shape or form. That's a preposterous idea. Every single time Chaos goes to war it does so behind uncountable hordes of men enslaved to the will of Chaos. I don't find it interesting they named them the Hordes of Chaos, because Chaos is what they epitomise. They sow death, destruction, pain, suffering and annihilate order. Spreading Chaos is what they do, the fact they're evil is a no brainer.



ok, point taken. Sorry about that. I think I've made my argument as good as it's going to get on that one. We've got a difference of opinion. I respect yours.



Many humans freely follow Chaos and become ensnared. What's your point exactly. The fact that the Gods appreciate a follower who gets results is hardly an argument for free will. They still do what they're told, and those who fail recieve so much mutation they become blobs. Yeah. Free.


Doing what you're told because you want to is actually free will. My argument is that they join the chaos forces and stay because they want the magical weapons, mutations, feel the power rush of rising in a hierarchy otherwise denied to them as human outsiders, getting to hang out with fellow hedonists who share their views, having their home destroyed by the hordes and pretty much out of options, being threatened to join or just actually just become devout followers etc. The reasons I think are both obvious and many. If they stay out of fear or lack of choice is another matter. They will never be welcome back to the "normals" again. People who become champions of Nurgle will never feel pain again. That's some perc. Who wouldn't want that? Some are always willing to pay the price.

People can never be forced into becoming corrupt, they let themselves be corrupted. It's a big difference. The difference is free will. If there is no free will I think they would have used a different word for it. The forces of Chaos buy over and snare those to weak to stand against it. It's still free will. People have to make an effort to get hooked on heroin. Nobody will sneak up on you and stab you with the needle that leads to addiction. It's actually a pretty good anology. I'm not saying you're wrong here. All I'm saying is that this is what WH is for me, and that is what I've seen in my head when I've read the stories and the books. It's fiction, it's bound to have a unique form for every reader.

...and becoming a Chaos spawn isn't a punishment but just bad luck when the rewards get carried away. Yes I know, I'm spliting hairs now.


DON'T KILL. DON'T STEAL. Examples of universal human morality.

I just don't agree. People steal if they know they can get away with it and they know their own stuff is safe. Owners of major corporations probably will try to pay their employees as little as possible, rather than what revenue they produce. Is that stealing? Well, yes. The owners use their control of means of productions as a threat. "If it doesn't suit you, you're free to leave us". We tolerate it for the good of society. In the long run it's a benefit to everyone.

We'll kill another countries soldiers if we're at war. We want strong moral rules against the killing of others because we don't want others killing us. I doubt you would feel the same way if you were in a position where you impossibly could get killed. Why do you think we have no qualms about eating meat. In countries where we develop affection for cats and dogs, the slaughter and eating of those animals becomes offensive. People will always make excuses to justify any behaviour. You're just wrong here.

Basic moral values will always change to suit our needs. Desperate people have no morals. You could argue that it would be good if everybody had the same morals about stealing and murder. But then it's a discussion about ethics, and that's something completely different. And there are a plethora of historical examples to back my case.

You seem to think that some moral values are obvious because all people in your society share your views. It doesn't prove a thing. The expression "Absolute power corrupts absolutely," is not taken out of thin air. Let's just stop this discussion here and I recomend you buy a book on ethics. The science of morals.
-Tom

Interesting discussion about Chaos:thumbsup:
Anyway keep the good work up v2 will rock :)It does:D

Metaldog - It will not work on Vanilla Civ - You need PTW at the minimum to run 1.03, and Conquests to run 1.11. Sorry

Vanadorn

PS: Drzoidberg and others - very nice! I like the views and rationale on the Chaos. The most poignent item: Chaos is not called evil, just Chaos. Chaos is the opposite of order, not the opposite of good. Free will and hedonism as the same bedfellows.

Thx
How can i see the MOD´s i can play with my Vanila Civ?
Kr

Thx
How can i see the MOD´s i can play with my Vanila Civ?
Kr
Bic files are for Vanilla, Bix are for PTW and Biq are for C3C:)

Most followers of Nurgle don't ask to be his followers until they have contracted a sickness and then they beg for him to "save" them from the sickness. That is why nurglings and plauge bearers carry sickness with them, so that they may cause you to get sick, the pain of it becomes to much, and you call out to Nurgle to save you.

All the Chaos Gods are connected to something good, as it says in the old "Slaves of Darkness" book that came out many years ago. Khorne was Justice and Duty, Nurgle was Hope and Status Quo, Tzeentch was Knowldege and Change, and Slaanesh was youth and vitality. Khorne hated Slaanesh, because He/She goes only for pleasure and pain, killing not to kill but to take pleasure in the act of killing itself. Khorne thought killing was like Kant's duty to the good, only it was instead Khorne's duty to skulls and blood. Khorne kills because that is what he is made for. It is his duty, and he kills. Slaanesh kills because she/he, really really gets off on cutting out people's still breathing lungs and sucking the last air from them. N and T hated each other because T wanted change and mutation at any cost, that is why in the old books the followers of T were the most horribly mutated, and why in 40K Airaimen needed to cast his spell so that the sorcers could avoid the mutation. Nurgle loves decay, and status qou, him and T strongly dislike each other.

When Plauge marines were created it was because their ship was trapped in the warp as they went to fight on earth. A plauge struck, and they began to rot, and decay still alive. They had no choice but to call out to Nurgle to "save" them by making them Plauge marines, or lay trapped in the warp forever alive yet rotting, feeling it all. Now they don't feel it. Sounds like slaves to me, sounds like they had little choice ontop of that.

I think the main misunderstanding here, is that one side seems to be only saying that chaos is evil, and the other is hearing that the inquisition and the humans are then good. But I don't think that there is a "good side" in Warhammer or 40K. I mean the feed the living souls of 1000 psykers a day to the Emperor in 40K. in warhammer You have evil power hungery undead, evil slavering hordes of chaos, evil plotting skaven, xenophobic wood elves, who would rid the earth of everyone if they could, arragont frat-daddy pricks as high elves, bloodthirsty orks and goblins, xenephobic arragont Lizardmen, greedy and vindictive dwarves, xenephobic untrusting warmongering humans (empire and bertonia). All of the races and groups you can play in the normal game are more evil then good. The only two that you can really argue are possibly not evil are Khemri and Lizardmen, Khemri wanted to stay dead, Nagash forced them to return to life, and now they are merely reinacting their living selves, but mostly basicaly automitons, some of the higher ups have their memories and stuff, and they hurt people and go to war, but ****, they were suppose to stay dead until one day arising in paradise; and instead Nagash raised them too soon, and now they are freaks surronded by skeletons and stuff, I would be pissed off as well. the Lizardmen also seem to be just trying to keep the world on track to what the Slaan think the Old Ones want it to be. In the first Lizardmen Rule book, they showed a Slaan reading a wall covered in prophese as to when to eat, go to war, build a city. The Slaan was trying to understand why the Old Ones wanted them to go to war, but he commanded it anyway. those are the only two races playable in the game I think you could argue are really not evil, and then I would still not go so far as to call them good, one is just indifferent, and the other is obeying the instructions left by the creators of their world.

In 40k I guess you could argue that the Tao are not evil, and even possibly good. But I think they made that army so that they could go mainstream and start to sell to a wider range of parents. It kind of feels like bertonians or lizardmen will begin to fill that nitch in warhammer, bertonians don't really have the crazy's and fanatics, like the other human groups.

@MOD STUFF

its too bad you couldn't make Chaos get bonus's from pollution, then make all their cities produce it. that way chaos would be slowed down until their pollution (ie warping ways) start to effect their area.

I can not wait for 2.0 of this mod to come out. I am so excited I can barely contain it. I am amazed at all the work in the first mods, you must have put a year of your life into this or something. I thank you for that.

All the Chaos Gods are connected to something good, as it says in the old "Slaves of Darkness" book that came out many years ago. Khorne was Justice and Duty, Nurgle was Hope and Status Quo, Tzeentch was Knowldege and Change, and Slaanesh was youth and vitality.

I think that pretty much wraps it up for me. When I think about Chaos I want to be able to understand it's apeal. I don't wan't to have my Chaos Champions all controlled by a mind-controlling-laser. I wan't them to believe they are doing something constructive. Not necesarily good, but at least not something evil. Evil for me is a pourly malicious force. Nobody is pourly malicous. Sure, WH is a fictional world, and fiction can be anything we want to, but I want to understand the motivations for the characters in the story, even the bad guys and I can't understand entities with outlandish qualities. It's just boring and static. But to cite Life of Brian, "we're all different".

BTW I have both the Chaos books and I looked for the passage you refer to but I can't find it.

I think that pretty much wraps it up for me. When I think about Chaos I want to be able to understand it's apeal. I don't wan't to have my Chaos Champions all controlled by a mind-controlling-laser. I wan't them to believe they are doing something constructive. Not necesarily good, but at least not something evil. Evil for me is a pourly malicious force. Nobody is pourly malicous. Sure, WH is a fictional world, and fiction can be anything we want to, but I want to understand the motivations for the characters in the story, even the bad guys and I can't understand entities with outlandish qualities. It's just boring and static. But to cite Life of Brian, "we're all different".

I think the last statement sums up this argument. Different people think differently, and so on and so forth. Khorak's views are pretty solid, from the view of general humanity and in a 'what you see is what you get', blunt kind of way. Chaos is, in the mainstream view, evil, undoubtedly. With either a casual view or a relatively deep probe, the *outside* view is pretty straightforward. They kill, sacrifice, mutilate, yada yada yada.

*Inside* views are always more relative. I'm sure Satan himself thinks he got a bad wrap. Few evil individuals think about themselves on a daily basis and go, 'man, I sure am evil!' but its irrelevant because their actions determine how to judge them. Still, their is nothing wrong with trying to empathize with your chosen 'evil-doers'. As far as the humans go, yah, they probably do that themselves, sometimes (that is, try to justify their actions). I would think it would mainly be for the 'wrong' reasons, but surely their is some minor independant thinking in there somewhere. I doubt they're just entirely enslaved to the will of the chaos gods. Its as Khorak I believe said something akin to they're aware of very dire consequences. Still, they're independantly assessing those consequences.

Anyway, drzoidberg, I applaud you for your serpent-like justification for evil. It's refreshing to see such character in wargaming. In all truth, this 'argument for Chaos's love of pretty flowers' (forgive me for exaggeration) is just the kind of brazen, bold, borderline insanity you would expect of a villain!

No offense. Heh.

D, look in the section on 40K and why each primarch chose the god they did. The only one who was forced into it was death company (Nurgle (forced be a warp plauge)), and the Thousand Sons (Teenetch (forced by the Space Wolves beliving they were evil)) But it still lays it out pretty well

I think it is toward the end of the red book

I am in Law School in hawai'i and I didn't bring my warhammer stuff so can't look it up for you. But I have most of the old books and new books memorized. Got something out of being an outrider for a few years. A head full of useless information and some cool t-shirts.

And I don't think that it is neccessary to want to do something constructive, I mean do Christians really do anything constructive? Not to offend anyone who is one, but what do they do that is so much more constructive then followers of Slaanesh? I know which god I would follow, even if she is caprcious and likely to F### me over as F### me. People in the real world do things in the names of their gods that make little or no sense.

And I don't think that it is neccessary to want to do something constructive, I mean do Christians really do anything constructive? Not to offend anyone who is one, but what do they do that is so much more constructive then followers of Slaanesh? I know which god I would follow, even if she is caprcious and likely to F### me over as F### me. People in the real world do things in the names of their gods that make little or no sense.


Pursuit of pleasure is something constructive. If sitting in churches singing stupid songs and smiling vacant smiles from ear to ear will increase your chances to go to heaven after death, why not. Same goes for people like mother Theresa. If by grinding down the bones of a poor sod you just killed will make you high and happy, why not. If your god and your peers agree with you there's really nothing stoping you. Whatever you believe is true for you. Thre is no objectivity. Christians could be right and we wrong.

I just looked through the book. It needs more than a quick glance. Last time I read them through was like 10 years ago. Thanks anyhow.

I'm right with you on Slaneesh
-Tom

Argh. Bloody armies in the editor can't have attack and defense. I was thinking in the warhammer mod to include Lords and Chars and to make dragons and such more rare I could give them all the Army flag and allow them built with 'War Academy' (or similarly renamed small wonder) like Waaag! and Chaos Horde units are done. It would limit their use because you have to have a certain number of cities to support an 'army', and they all would be able to be built only in one city.

Unfortunately, the army special ability when chosen disallows attack and defense. Plus I think it may mess with the graphics of most units.

Subsequently, I've been messing around with the upgrade paths of leaders and armies to try and work out another way of doing it, but I'm not having too much luck. It would probably be difficult to get the AI to utilize the ability anyway...

Ah well. 'Twas a good idea, I think. The limitedness of the editor frustrates me sometimes. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one.

Heh, I've looked into that sort of limiting myself (It's what "inspired" me to make the only thread by me in this forum), and (despite what I may have written here earlier) I may have found a way to limit the big powerful units to some extent, by way of making the units "kings". One example of possible use, is with the dragons- in 2.0 there's currently basic dragon types and great dragon types; select the king option for the great dragons (at the expense of the current kings system, which is inherently rubbish so no great loss), put the lesser dragons to upgrade, and you will be able to upgrade to the more powerful dragons, but only if you have the money- and given how expensive upgrading is, not even the AI would be able to flood you with great dragons...

Heh, I've looked into that sort of limiting myself (It's what "inspired" me to make the only thread by me in this forum), and (despite what I may have written here earlier) I may have found a way to limit the big powerful units to some extent, by way of making the units "kings". One example of possible use, is with the dragons- in 2.0 there's currently basic dragon types and great dragon types; select the king option for the great dragons (at the expense of the current kings system, which is inherently rubbish so no great loss), put the lesser dragons to upgrade, and you will be able to upgrade to the more powerful dragons, but only if you have the money- and given how expensive upgrading is, not even the AI would be able to flood you with great dragons...

Excellent idea...have you tested it any? Particularly as to whether the AI will actually do it at all, or whether the AI will use King units effectively (rather than just holing them up in cities)? In any case, I may test it out myself. Thanks, by the way! :king:

It does work, but you have to make sure that there is no unit chosen as the king unit for the civilisation on the civilisations tab, otherwise the upgraded unit will have that unit's name (e.g. an upgraded dragon for the Empire would be called Karl Franz!) and it will treat the unit like a king, as you describe...

I think limiting the number of dragons isn't good. What I would like to see is dragons built by small wonders. That will at least prevent from building too many quickly.

Well the method I described wouldn't limit them as such anyway, it'd just mean AI cities all attempt to build a unit costing 200 shields rather than 400 (or whatever the dragons' cost is Edit: also every time you get a new tech the normal dragon unit production is upgraded to great dragon production anyway). Small wonders are an idea, but they're impossible to implement, as most nations builds a different kind of dragon, and there's no way of allowing each wonder to build a dragon tailored to that civilisation. The regicide-upgrade trick could work, however, if you had a "hatchery" type small wonder that spawns an "egg" unit occasionally, then you can manipulate the upgrade chain so that every civ can upgrade a monstrous unit from the egg (e.g. egg -> red dragon -> green dragon -> zombie dragon -> carnosaur -> ... -> great red dragon -> great green dragon etc. etc.). Of course, that'd be a bit more work for ED, and this thing might never get released :P

Not to mention the AI doesn't upgrade units.

I haven't been here but it seems people understand my point. Chaos is undoubtedly evil, I consider it frankly disturbing that anyone could look upon their actions and not consider them so. The evil of Chaos comes from its extremity, in 40k Chaos is fed by the emotions and acts of mortals, the Gods are all mortal concepts taken to monsterous extremes. Khorne, war and honour, Tzeentch, knowledge and power, Slaanesh, pleasure and decadence, Nurgle, suffering. All the Gods require these things to empower them, and consume the souls of their followers upon their death. Seeing this, it's obvious how people become corrupted, and fall to the promises of Chaos. It's obvious to see how in the Empire wizards invariably fall under the thrall of Tzeentch rather than any other deity, how mighty warriors fall into the service of Khorne, how peasants and nobles alike wracked with plague and suffering turn to Nurgle...and how the charismatic and decadent fall to Slaanesh. Chaos is human emotion taken to inevitable evils. It's just cream on the cake that various acts on the same level of horror as eating babies is required to secure any notice from the Chaos Gods.

The Inquisition, the witch hunting, the brutal and merciless slaughtering of those who have come into prolonged contact with Chaos is what we call a necessary evil. Evils without a doubt, but humanity can't survive, free and with a future, without such things to protect it from Chaos. At least in 40k there's a light at the end of the tunnel even if they don't know it's there. If Chaos is unable to break the back of humanitys belief in the Emperor before his pitiful remains on the Golden Throne die for one reason or another, he'll rise as a true God and start kicking the snot out of the Chaos Gods. Heck, read Eye of Terror, Chaos itself believes this event. Eldrad Ulthran in one of the possible futures from Abaddons crusade saw Terra fall...when Chaos reached the Throne a great glowing angel rose up and starting killing the hordes, but was eventually defeated by the Daemons. In Fantasy we're just plain screwed it seems! Where's Sigmar huh!? WHERE'S SIGMAR!? :D

For those of you arguing for the relativeness of evil, I strongly recommend that you check out a short story by (I believe) Harlan Ellison called "Hitler painted roses." Then to help the heebie jeebies stop you can read his "Djinn, no chaser."

Well the method I described wouldn't limit them as such anyway, it'd just mean AI cities all attempt to build a unit costing 200 shields rather than 400 (or whatever the dragons' cost is Edit: also every time you get a new tech the normal dragon unit production is upgraded to great dragon production anyway). Small wonders are an idea, but they're impossible to implement, as most nations builds a different kind of dragon, and there's no way of allowing each wonder to build a dragon tailored to that civilisation. The regicide-upgrade trick could work, however, if you had a "hatchery" type small wonder that spawns an "egg" unit occasionally, then you can manipulate the upgrade chain so that every civ can upgrade a monstrous unit from the egg (e.g. egg -> red dragon -> green dragon -> zombie dragon -> carnosaur -> ... -> great red dragon -> great green dragon etc. etc.). Of course, that'd be a bit more work for ED, and this thing might never get released :P


Actually the small wonder trick does work, because I'm using it in my mod. The trick is to create a small wonder for each dragon and then making it available through a non-era take after awakening or in place of it. ED would know how to empliment that if he wanted to. King units will not be used properly. The AI just won't understand it.

tjedge1 I know but I used all the starting tech slots needed for era-none techs already ;) There are more civ-specific things I would like to add only if I had more slots available...

Isn't there a way in the scenario properties to give civs more than 4 techs? I thought there was but never researched it. Not that I'm saying you should do it. Personally I like building lots of dragons.

Actually the small wonder trick does work, because I'm using it in my mod. The trick is to create a small wonder for each dragon and then making it available through a non-era take after awakening or in place of it. ED would know how to empliment that if he wanted to. King units will not be used properly. The AI just won't understand it.

Yes, it works in your mod, but this is embryodead's mod ;) I expect that you can increase the number of techs, but only as part of a bonafide scenario with pre-placed units and a map. For a mod, it's not an option. King units are used properly as long as there is no actual king unit and no unit has the king AI strategy checked, you can fool the AI. And it does upgrade units as long as it has the cash (to Goldflash).

But hey, if ED wants the system to remain as it is, that's no problem by me. I'm only touting this particular method because I was intrigued by the possiblity of units that can't be built but still can be upgraded to. It would certainly work like the Japanese scenario (Minus the regicide aspect) from C3C with heroes in scenarios that will get made using the mod after version 2 is released.

As an old warhammer player (playing since 1986, all books purchased), I may like to see a different game dynamic and set up in order to generate some "historicity" and be faithful to the warhammer universe.

Chaos and the Empire. the two most dominant forces compaeting for supremacy in the Old World is Chaos and the Empire of Karl Franz. This sghould reflect in the setup, where Chaos should have better chances of spreading. Right now Chaos is considered as any Civ, but it should be more dominant. In fact, Chaos must be heavily upgraded, alongside Goblindom.
This means that the chaos civs will be balanced stronger

I would like to say, I am very satsfied with this mod, but see that a couple of tweaks is necessary in order to be closer with the nature of this world.

In summary

Old world humans and demihumans 10 Civs
The Empire incl, the Moot and Marienburg
Bretonnia
Kislev,
Estalia
Tilea
Border Princes
Albion
Norsca
Elves of Loren
Dwarves of Worlds Edge Mountains

NEW CIV
Border Princes
Militaristic/Commercial (survivalist, non expansive)
Special units primarily Dogs of War and so on.
maybe some special expensive mercenary would do.

Old World Evils 3
Chaos, 5-fold spread locations organized from Chaos wastes

(incl. Skavenblight, Chaos Northern Wastes, Chaos Dwarves, one vicious fortress in the Grey mountains with chaos cultists (Wittgenstein) and one location with necromancers located in the Black Mountains)
Old world chaos
Militaristic, scientific (primarily magic)

Goblindom of Badlands 5 fold Evil Goblindom
(incl Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, snotlings, ogres)

REDUCE GOBLINS AND ORCS TO ONE CIV in the Old World
Goblin-nationalist
Militaristic, Industrious (reproduction)
orcs, goblins, trolls, snotlings (halfling scout), ogres
trolls and ogres as special units

Darklands 5 fold Chaos Goblindom
Goblin internationalist
Expansionist, Industrious (poor military, but numerous)

Demons, Goblins, Orcs , Lizardmen and various beasts
Demons and special beasts as special units

Exotic civs, 8
Nippon
Cathay
Ind NEW CIV
Araby
Dolgans
Dark Elves, Naggaroth
High Elves, Ulthuan


IND
Agricultural Commercial
Special units
War Elephant, Tiger Cavalry,
Dungeon based civs, non-playable, 4

Southlands
New World¨
Lustria
Khemri

Alterations to existing game

Wood Elves steal Brionne/Quenelles area in all playtesting from Bretonnia, and Kislev expand too fast, also overseas. Kislev is not a maritime power.
Wood Elves must be more forest dependent of sorts, not building outside Loren in the beginning. Kislev must have more resistance from barbarians and chaos, so they do not globalize themselves quickly. I saw the same problem in Paradox Victoria, Russia taking most colonies in Africa and so on.
Like Russia, Kislevite food must be reduced to a minimum, barbarians scaled up, improved defenses.

Except for that, I am very satsified how Tilea , Estalia, Bretonnia and the Dwarves act very true to the game. Another aspect is to adapt the Calendar to Warhammer Hiistory)

Yours
Provolution

Provolution, welcome to CFC. :)
Your comments are all about 1.x of the mod, so most of them are obsolete, as embryodead is hard at work on 2.0
Besides, this isn't primarily a WH world map mod, but rather a random map mod. Whenever a world map is made for 2.0 it's gonna be very different to the old map, to include the new civs (need I say Slann? :mischief: ).

Lurking these forums and esp. this thread for quite some time, I finally decided to register (Hi all) - mainly to ask, if ED or (not to poke your ellbow while finishing the mod ;)) someone of the beta-testers could give any updated info on an estimated v2.0 release date. The problem is, that it still says "Release in June",in the first post which is obvioulsly way outdated. That causes me to unnecessarily check back here quite often - so any info like "not before x" would be really nice.

Anyway - thanks for your tremendous efforts on this great mod, take your time, keep up the great work and sorry for my English :blush:

P.S.: I made a custom map (not WH-related) for personal purposes to get the game-experience I wanted with the mod (all 1.1 factions, not too much space so there aren't many cities to govern, all civs with "real world" archetypes in "believable" positions to each other and mountain chains/bays/lakes to keep them somewhat separated in the beginning, to prevent early eliminations, but still allowing spellcasters to get anywhere once roads are built...). It's quite well tested on 1.1 and plays ok (for me), but since I guess 2.0 will be something completely different (besides the new civs aren't included yet, but I still have space), there wont be any need for it now. In case I'm wrong, drop me a line and I'll upload it.

MRTN

thanks for the welcome :)

Well, I would not say my postings were obsolete, as a WFRP purist, and this is based on the WFRP franchise after all, I still see the need to relate to the real map. Old world civs have to start in the same region in order to get the same game dynamic on a loose coalition facing evil and chaos, but still fighting for national interest. I think Embryodead should answer on these things individually, as he may know what is included and omitted in the 2.0 version.

Frankly, Slann and the Land of the Dead does not need to be a civ, but Darklands and Badlands has to be. And it is also important to notice that Goblindom fight as one force, with goblin archers and orc infantry, snotling scouts and Troll "armor". It is also important to keep wood elves into the woods as much as possible, otherwise, they are not "wood elves" anymore.

Furthermore, Chaos and evil civs are few, but needs to be strengthened a lot.

I hope that clarified my view

Thanks
provolution

MRTN

thanks for the welcome :)

Well, I would not say my postings were obsolete, as a WFRP purist, and this is based on the WFRP franchise after all, I still see the need to relate to the real map. Old world civs have to start in the same region in order to get the same game dynamic on a loose coalition facing evil and chaos, but still fighting for national interest. I think Embryodead should answer on these things individually, as he may know what is included and omitted in the 2.0 version.

Frankly, Slann and the Land of the Dead does not need to be a civ, but Darklands and Badlands has to be. And it is also important to notice that Goblindom fight as one force, with goblin archers and orc infantry, snotling scouts and Troll "armor". It is also important to keep wood elves into the woods as much as possible, otherwise, they are not "wood elves" anymore.

Furthermore, Chaos and evil civs are few, but needs to be strengthened a lot.

I hope that clarified my view

Thanks
provolution


I have a supersleepy Nurgle-project, (don't hold your breath). I would like to see one civ for each Chaos god, in addition to the Chaos dwarves and Skaven. Chaos are only percieved by the humans a single force, but they still hate each others guts. But, Provolution, if you've read through this thread you can clearly find the reason why we don't have civs like Skaven. There are no units. If you make some I'm sure ED would find it in his heart to include them.

I made a custom map (not WH-related) for personal purposes to get the game-experience I wanted with the mod (all 1.1 factions, not too much space so there aren't many cities to govern, all civs with "real world" archetypes in "believable" positions to each other and mountain chains/bays/lakes to keep them somewhat separated in the beginning, to prevent early eliminations, but still allowing spellcasters to get anywhere once roads are built...). It's quite well tested on 1.1 and plays ok (for me), but since I guess 2.0 will be something completely different (besides the new civs aren't included yet, but I still have space), there wont be any need for it now. In case I'm wrong, drop me a line and I'll upload

Please upload it :D I totally agree with you on the game experience. I can't play it, if say the Wood elves are on a flood plain or if Khemri are on a tundra island or if the Dwarves don't start in the hills/mountains.

The trouble is, though the mod is 'random map', i never actually play on a random map because of the above about game experience.

Oh, and i also check this thread regulary, sometimes every hour! :eek:
So i also second Billy on what he said.

"NEW CIV
Border Princes
Militaristic/Commercial (survivalist, non expansive)
Special units primarily Dogs of War and so on.
maybe some special expensive mercenary would do."

According to the latest Bretonnian book, the border princes are merely Bretonnian knights and dukes who chose to settle down in that region after the crusades ended. They do not really need to be an entire civilisation all to themselves.

@Raw is War: A few notes:

- I hate lots of micromanagement, but don't like governors either, so there are very few cities intended for each civ 5-6 for most, unless you've conquered some)
- Some factions are weaker than others, because I wanted them to be minor powers. The weaker are: Tilea, Estalia, Norsca, stronger civs are mainly chaos and Reikland - the rest is intended to be somewhere in between, but of course, the AI has plenty of surprises at hand - I've had games when weak civs rose to be super-powers, and strong ones were eliminated early. I usually play on Emperor, and I guess any human player should be able to handle any civ (weaker ones are a bit more challenging...).
- The map is constant subject to change (in fact I modified it after every game I've played and still continue doing so, based on the experiences in the previous games).
- All civs have access to Iron and Timber.

Specs:
World Size: 140x140, but lots of water (space for 2.0 ;))
# of factions: 20

It's not exactly a piece of art, but imho, it's better than random maps with Norsca in the desert and Khemri near north pole :rolleyes:

Here you go - enjoy and tell me if you liked it :):

I never care if the tribes end up in places that don't really suit them- after all, a regular game is there to rewrite history, not follow it.

MRTN

thanks for the welcome :)

Well, I would not say my postings were obsolete, as a WFRP purist, and this is based on the WFRP franchise after all, I still see the need to relate to the real map. ...I never said that it was uninteresting. ;) Just that you post about some stuff that already is included in 2.0 (like Ind), and some stuff that isn't really possible with the civ3 engine.

Billy, welcome. :) You mean it isn't June anymore? :confused:
I'd say it's only one or two beta patches left, so it shouldn't be sooo long to the release. :bounce:

As an old warhammer player (playing since 1986, all books purchased), I may like to see a different game dynamic and set up in order to generate some "historicity" and be faithful to the warhammer universe.

Chaos and the Empire. the two most dominant forces compaeting for supremacy in the Old World is Chaos and the Empire of Karl Franz. This sghould reflect in the setup, where Chaos should have better chances of spreading. Right now Chaos is considered as any Civ, but it should be more dominant. In fact, Chaos must be heavily upgraded, alongside Goblindom.
This means that the chaos civs will be balanced stronger

Perhaps it would be better to have Chaos both as a civ and represented in barbarians. You could stick them at key places, make fortresses in mountains and generally engineer them to harass the mortals. Perhaps they'll beat on Chaos too, but oh well. We'll pretend they're warring factions or somesuch. Anyway, this makes Chaos have more of an 'everywhere' effect.

In any case, this is kind of what I did to the map. Rename units that are pre-placed like is done with Chaos Dwarves. I didn't like the beastman unit graphics, so I use the Minotaur and call em 'Gor'. I think it looks pretty awesome that way.

I also turned Chaos Nodes or whatever into Airports, made them improvements that require Temples, dumbed down their production power, and gave certain units airdrop abilities to represent them 'warping' across the lands. It may not be strictly accurate (or universally accurate...seems like plenty of Warhammer invasions seem to come out of nowhere in the storyline) but I think it fits. So long as it's not across the whole world anyway.

As a side note, I've been messing around with the units and making the uber guys insanely expensive to build and so forth. Of course, I've been structuring stats and costs to kind of 'reflect' warhammer stats more to suit me. It's not as balanced as ED made it (for Civ, anyway), but it works for me in any case (after becoming obsessed with TETurkan's mod, I care not for balance). There is a kind of basis in Warhammer already for stat balance...it's just unfortunate we're limited to ATTACK DEFENSE HITS in Civ.

"NEW CIV
Border Princes
Militaristic/Commercial (survivalist, non expansive)
Special units primarily Dogs of War and so on.
maybe some special expensive mercenary would do."

According to the latest Bretonnian book, the border princes are merely Bretonnian knights and dukes who chose to settle down in that region after the crusades ended. They do not really need to be an entire civilisation all to themselves.
Well Mr DO

It seems there are two wings here in civ in general, some people like a closer resemblance to the world they know and play in, and some like to play it McFantasy, with all options open and consume it a'la carte. That is fair. So Mr Do, you advocate the RANDOM game of Embryodead, where many of us would see the use of the Warhammer World as it has been described. This also directly impacts Border Princes, which could be compared to the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the the Goblindom as the Turks and Arabs threatening the Old World, cleverly placing the Araby as the nice arabs and Badlands as the bad arabs, and Khemri as the Egyptologist arabs.

The border princes is a cultural offspring in some ways from Bretonnia, but is actually a
more "multiethnic" state like the Yugoslavias as a a Border Garrison state set up to stop the Turks/Goblinoids. This means that we are not talking all Bretonnians, but an entirely new nation, as USA seceded from UK, USA should never be an original CIV under any case, as they come in too late. CIV4 should completely redo game mechanics by allowing such new civs to establish themselves later in the game.
In fact, even UK came in a bit late, like after 1200s. This means that a CIV engine that adapts CIVS by mixsing populations would be interesting for the better and the worse.
Multiethnic USA, Soviet, Yugoslavia and South Africa worked out all differently.
It is easier to build a CIV with hard working amd greedy protestants with slaves, than one with drunk and cynic slavic serfs and mongol masters...

This also reflects on Warhammer, The Empire is in many ways, core Germanic, but also multiethnic mor than the others, and don't forget that Marienburg left the Empire.

So Mr Do, neither of us is "right" we have differing opinions, and separate followings.

But thanks for the comment

Provolution

Heh.. there's nothing wrong with McFantasy - afterall, this is - in fact - Warhammer Fantasy Mod. Not a direct translation of the Warhammer, but based on it (like a script of a film is based on a book, rather than a direct translation from book to a film)

But anyhoo, the Warhammer map (and some features related to it) will be included in the version 2.x (not necessarily in the upcoming release 2.0). :)

Cheers

Warhammer Mod 2.0
End of July or beginning of August... should be the the first case, though I prefer to give myself time for another random delay ;) Anyway, the units and basic mod is done, just finishing touches now. I plan to start preview thread today.

Mod or not?
Thanks for all the input, Provolution. Indeed, my main concern is the Civ3 mod, meaning a game on random map. For gameplay reasons, this is most fun for many people, including me, simply because I can play on random maps hundreds of times, while 1 map gets boring after a while. I understand your concerns, but consider that this is a mod for Civ3, not a Warhammer game. If I had the skill and tools to make one, I'd do so ;) Also, this mod is based on the whole Warhammer world, treating both WFB and WFRP as main reasources, but also other GW-material (WD, misc. games) or popular unofficial resources such as Strike-to-Stun, ie. to cover areas neglected by original authors.

Mr. Do's point was corrent - Civ3 is an alternate reality game. Did you bought it in the first place only to play on a world map? The epic game takes place on a random map, with randomly placed civs. They are historically correct (well to an extend, but that's another story;) ) in background, but *you* are the player that leads them and rewrites the history anew. Same story with the mod.

I should mention that as of present moment, there is no World Map. And there won't be in the form that it was. I will try to be clear: "a mod" is something universal, playable on random map. That's what Warhammer mod is. BUT I plan to include scenarios for Warhammer Mod as well (a game taking place in the Old World or whole Warhammer world is not a mod, but a Scenario). Scenario's have their own rules, for example speaking of balance, your ideas won't be heard since balance in a mod means that factions should perform more or less equally in the hands of AI and human players. Modifying a faction to be more powerful, since it expands too fast in the Old World is out of question - this is a mod. But again, don't worry, scenarios will be there as well. I'll try to include some with the mod, others will follow up in the following weeks.

As for the details:

There are new playable factions in 2.0: Westerland (since not only it left the Empire, but wasn't part of it in the first place, that was different tribe), Lahmia (it was a flourishing kingdom until Khemri captured it), Ind, Ungols, Slann and Amazons. Again, those concern the basic mod, random map.

Comparing my current approach to McFantasy insults me a bit. You know, I've been "fighting" with people here, because some wanted more "generic" approach (check last couple of pages for example), while I stood ground in defense of sticking to the Warhammer background. I think the result is good (at least looking at 2.0 version), but we have completly different view because of approach to Civ3 gaming. I mean come on, the only real concern here is the map, which is a damn choice. Some people prefer playing MODS, because playing on 1 map hundreds of times is boring. I did not make a clear distinction last time because the world map wasnt really a scenario, I just made a map quickly that's all. Then I moved on to 2.0 so I didn't work on it any longer. Honestly I always thought that map sucked for gameplay reasons, but hey that was a bonus, nothing meant to define the mod itself. Anyway, this will be covered in new world map scenario(s) which include features made specifically for itself, ie. resources visible only to certain races that will enable productive settlements in mountains or chaos wastes.

As for the rest of your points, I just cannot agree with them. I play since 1994 (both WFRP and WFB, always trying to compromise contradictions) if that matters... Why Slann and Khemri not civs? You seem to be oldworld-centric so to speak, treating everything around as "evil" that threatens the Old World (sorry for my guess, you play only WFRP, not WFB right?). Well that unnamed evil not only has names, but whole kingdoms, armies, own leaders and so on. Badlands and Darklands are areas. Areas inhabited by various greenskin tribes (often fighting against each other), undead under command of vampire counts (often fighting against each other) or chaos dwarfs. Those are separate forces, not one "evil". Border Princes are what they are, IMHO they do not deserve to be a seperate faction. Whatever the source (another contradiction - WFRP, Mordheim and Bretonnia's rulebook all give different, unfortunately vague descriptions of the area), this is not a nation, kingdom, not even a confederate of independent states. This is an area of constant war between barons, outlaws and various invading forces. Single cities should appear in a Scenario with pre-placed cities, that's all where I can see them. Moreover, even on the clean world map, suppose we speak of the old one I provided with 1.1 version, putting Border Princes there would eliminate the dwarfs. Notice that if you place 5-6 dwarf fortresses in World's Edge and Black Mountains, then add Barak-Varr, you end up with whole area already covered. Even if the map was larger, they would never spread up like they should.

Calendar is present in 2.0 at least to the extend that Civ3 allows (similarly to epic game). There are also months taken from Imperial Calendar for Scenarios.

Sorry, I tried to keep one point per paragraph at least, but it was a lot of writing and it may have turned out messy.

[QUOTE=embryodead]Warhammer Mod 2.0
End of July or beginning of August... should be the the first case, though I prefer to give myself time for another random delay ;) Anyway, the units and basic mod is done, just finishing touches now. I plan to start preview thread today.

I am really satisfied with what you have done, without your laborious, artistic and well planned mod, we would have nio CIV3 warhammer game.

Mod or not?
Thanks for all the input, Provolution. Indeed, my main concern is the Civ3 mod, meaning a game on random map. For gameplay reasons, this is most fun for many people, including me, simply because I can play on random maps hundreds of times, while 1 map gets boring after a while. I understand your concerns, but consider that this is a mod for Civ3, not a Warhammer game. If I had the skill and tools to make one, I'd do so ;) Also, this mod is based on the whole Warhammer world, treating both WFB and WFRP as main reasources, but also other GW-material (WD, misc. games) or popular unofficial resources such as Strike-to-Stun, ie. to cover areas neglected by original authors.

I see the aspect of random maps, and that they may have a replay effect superceding that of the old world map. With the inherent limitations of Civ3, which is in fact very limited compared to the potential, you have derlivered an uncut diamond of a masterpiece.

Mr. Do's point was corrent - Civ3 is an alternate reality game. Did you bought it in the first place only to play on a world map? The epic game takes place on a random map, with randomly placed civs. They are historically correct (well to an extend, but that's another story;) ) in background, but *you* are the player that leads them and rewrites the history anew. Same story with the mod.

As long as the culturally linked starting positions are in place, we all do fine for the random part. Also give a thought to the seeds.

I should mention that as of present moment, there is no World Map. And there won't be in the form that it was. I will try to be clear: "a mod" is something universal, playable on random map. That's what Warhammer mod is. BUT I plan to include scenarios for Warhammer Mod as well (a game taking place in the Old World or whole Warhammer world is not a mod, but a Scenario). Scenario's have their own rules, for example speaking of balance, your ideas won't be heard since balance in a mod means that factions should perform more or less equally in the hands of AI and human players. Modifying a faction to be more powerful, since it expands too fast in the Old World is out of question - this is a mod. But again, don't worry, scenarios will be there as well. I'll try to include some with the mod, others will follow up in the following weeks.

I reallly look forward to the scenarios, but I see that the mod is necessary to get there, but the prime prixze would be an excellent scenario, now that I don't have the time to play any game 100s of times.

As for the details:

There are new playable factions in 2.0: Westerland (since not only it left the Empire, but wasn't part of it in the first place, that was different tribe), Lahmia (it was a flourishing kingdom until Khemri captured it), Ind, Ungols, Slann and Amazons. Again, those concern the basic mod, random map.

Very good, I look forward to it, and I see that each person may custom their own games to their own needs. Some may like it closer to the original world, others may concetrate on a WFB setup. all good

Comparing my current approach to McFantasy insults me a bit. You know, I've been "fighting" with people here, because some wanted more "generic" approach (check last couple of pages for example), while I stood ground in defense of sticking to the Warhammer background. I think the result is good (at least looking at 2.0 version), but we have completly different view because of approach to Civ3 gaming. I mean come on, the only real concern here is the map, which is a damn choice. Some people prefer playing MODS, because playing on 1 map hundreds of times is boring. I did not make a clear distinction last time because the world map wasnt really a scenario, I just made a map quickly that's all. Then I moved on to 2.0 so I didn't work on it any longer. Honestly I always thought that map sucked for gameplay reasons, but hey that was a bonus, nothing meant to define the mod itself. Anyway, this will be covered in new world map scenario(s) which include features made specifically for itself, ie. resources visible only to certain races that will enable productive settlements in mountains or chaos wastes.

It is not your approach that is McFantasy, but the average American Joe Donut, that may have read some comics and watched some flicks, and then ask for a very bland and generic edition. As for your 9 years of WHFP and WHB experience, I am confident you can scoff at some of their most futile requests, as much as some of my requests are obsolete for the mod, but quite probable for a potential scenario.

As for the rest of your points, I just cannot agree with them. I play since 1994 (both WFRP and WFB, always trying to compromise contradictions) if that matters... Why Slann and Khemri not civs? You seem to be oldworld-centric so to speak, treating everything around as "evil" that threatens the Old World (sorry for my guess, you play only WFRP, not WFB right?). Well that unnamed evil not only has names, but whole kingdoms, armies, own leaders and so on. Badlands and Darklands are areas. Areas inhabited by various greenskin tribes (often fighting against each other), undead under command of vampire counts (often fighting against each other) or chaos dwarfs. Those are separate forces, not one "evil". Border Princes are what they are, IMHO they do not deserve to be a seperate faction. Whatever the source (another contradiction - WFRP, Mordheim and Bretonnia's rulebook all give different, unfortunately vague descriptions of the area), this is not a nation, kingdom, not even a confederate of independent states. This is an area of constant war between barons, outlaws and various invading forces. Single cities should appear in a Scenario with pre-placed cities, that's all where I can see them. Moreover, even on the clean world map, suppose we speak of the old one I provided with 1.1 version, putting Border Princes there would eliminate the dwarfs. Notice that if you place 5-6 dwarf fortresses in World's Edge and Black Mountains, then add Barak-Varr, you end up with whole area already covered. Even if the map was larger, they would never spread up like they should.

Old World is not necessarily fighting evil all over, but is part evil tiself, with her colonies in the New World, Lustria and Southlands, so I rather compare it to the early age of discovery of Europe. Again, some of us have different experiences and interpretations of warhammer, and I am thankful for that the mod is put into being by someone, so all credits to you embryodead.

So I would rather let this stand as an input for future scenarios, and not be unnecessarily attacked for singularly pitching the mods against the scenario, which are in fact two complementary cases. Yet, I look forward to this mod.

Cheers embryodead, excellent job.

Thanks for the Info - I'll start counting the days then :).

Concerning random maps and unsuitable starting positions: I agree that changing history is the most interesting part in playing civ games, but imho, every game turns out to be different and rewrites history, regardless of the map.
I personally don't mind if there's a WH map or not, because I don't have too many connections to WH, but seeing the wood elves capital in the tundra just doesn't feel right to me - after all one could guess that they have their name for a reason.
I want the map I play on to be believable. Dwarves in wide plains? Surely it makes lots of sense to grow short, so you can't see too far and run too fast - a low point of balance surely comes in handy too, when your people emerged in a place absolutely flat - and sure - plains are allways the places I expect to find the best miners in (at least after a few generations of living there) :mischief:.
Vampire's in the desert? Don't forget your sunblocker. Oh - and Etzen wearing thick furs in the jungle? For someone having the looks of a cold-climate adjusted neanderthal he's still pretty chilled through, huh? etc...etc...

I think random maps work better in normal civ3, since all factions are still pretty generic and share a very similar physique, but in WH, with all these highly specialized civs, it doesn't work for me.

Warhammer Mod 2.0
End of July or beginning of August... should be the the first case, though I prefer to give myself time for another random delay ;) Anyway, the units and basic mod is done, just finishing touches now. I plan to start preview thread today..

Great news! :goodjob: I've been (im)patiently :lol: waiting for 2.0 and can't wait to DL it!
Like others here, I see, I've been frequently checking this thread for definite news on the long-awaited arrival!

Thanks for all the work you've put into this mod, ED! I really, really appreciate it! :worship:

...I think random maps work better in normal civ3, since all factions are still pretty generic and share a very similar physique, but in WH, with all these highly specialized civs, it doesn't work for me.It should be a piece of cake for someone to create a bunch of random maps and then assign the starting places to believable civs. :)

It should be a piece of cake for someone to create a bunch of random maps and then assign the starting places to believable civs. :)
Tha's actually what I do when I play this mod. Sometimes I just import someone else's scenario map and place the starting positions. At the moment I have played on the Rhye's Earth map and made some adjustments. It only takes about 5-10 minutes, then I can play for hours before having to do it again.

Warhammer Mod 2.0
I should mention that as of present moment, there is no World Map. And there won't be in the form that it was. I will try to be clear: "a mod" is something universal, playable on random map. That's what Warhammer mod is. BUT I plan to include scenarios for Warhammer Mod as well (a game taking place in the Old World or whole Warhammer world is not a mod, but a Scenario). Scenario's have their own rules, for example speaking of balance, your ideas won't be heard since balance in a mod means that factions should perform more or less equally in the hands of AI and human players. Modifying a faction to be more powerful, since it expands too fast in the Old World is out of question - this is a mod. But again, don't worry, scenarios will be there as well. I'll try to include some with the mod, others will follow up in the following weeks.

So there will not be a map at all equivelent to the previous one? Are you going to do the 'scenarios' kinda like indepth warhammer FB scenarios, with specific civs available and so forth? I suppose that would be pretty interesting. It will be a loss, though, not having the large map available. I'm sure if you won't do it *someone* will, in any case. If not, I guess I might do my own, likely inept version (or just use the one from 1.1).

Of course, I need to go get Conquests...

Yes, that's what I'm planning Raptorclaw, though it won't appear all at once - no need to delay the mod just because of add-on scenarios. BTW I plan various sizes of map, inlcuding an ultra-huge Warhammer map.

Random Maps - since as mrtn mentioned it doesnt take much time, the mod will come with dozens of such semi-random maps, with pre-placed positions but also some landmarks etc.

BTW Billy Rubin, actually in Warhammer, ancient vampires come from desert lands... moreover this is based on myths and fiction (ie. A. Rice novels), which place early vampires in the ancient Egypt.

BTW Billy Rubin, actually in Warhammer, ancient vampires come from desert lands... moreover this is based on myths and fiction (ie. A. Rice novels), which place early vampires in the ancient Egypt.

oops - well - as I said I don't know too much about the WH-Universe, but I allways thought the "Egyptian" branch of undeads were Khemri with Liches (Mummies?) and so on, so mainly those not being too light sensitive.
Having Vampires emerge in the desert just doesn't sound very logical to me. Even my skin would start bubbling there, sooner or later, so the most sunny areas in the world should be a real challenge for them...
Anyway - it's fiction, but I think the best fiction is that which is coherent...

Great news on that semi random map pack - I appreciate that a lot! Take your time - I'm off for a week anyway so a release around 1st August would be a perfect timing for me ;):D

mrtn: I started doing what you suggested when I first got the mod, but started to change more and more (so Bretonnias main trading luxury is fine Bordelaux wine rather than silks, faction x settles in the area I intended them to settle in, etc ;)), so I decided to start making maps from scratch, because it turned out to be less work with better results than starting with a random map and changing it beyond recognition...

This may be elsewhere in your thread, but I cannot attack with Chaos Cultists.

you need to have declared war in order to attack settlements with hidden-nationality-units, dont you?

In the latest version of Civ 3 Conquests, yup.

In the latest version of Civ 3 Conquests, yup.

What a drag...

Just a question while i wait impatiantly for the next version. Will you be making a version for Civ 4?

Oh and another thing. I dont know if any of you guys are in any NES's but a warhammer one would kick ass.

@Tyrion
Civ4 is not out yet so it's pointless to say anything at this moment ;) Let's wait a year or two for the release, then for the usable editor etc. ;)

What's a NES?

If I have understood correctly, the civ4 will use a 3d-engine like smac...? These are only vague rumors, so they may very well be false.

And in that case, the different units would need much more work.

SMAC wasn't real 3d as far as I understand that term. I hope it doesn't mean that it will be hard to make units...

Well, I think that the smac-units weren't sprites either...?

Well, it wasn't as if you could watch them from whatever angle you wanted... so I'd say they were some kind of sprite (with my not unlimited understanding of what a sprite is...)

@Tyrion
What's a NES?

Nintendo Entertainment System?

Is there a Civ for consoles? I wouldn't know, since I only play on PC, but IIRC correctly, that's what NES usually stands for...

i am having some troubles (2) that i hope you guys(or girls) can help me with.

(1) when i play Warhammer 1.1 (all patches, all base downloads, all in correct directories) on my v1.22 Conquests the labels(i think that the text file) are all off. Like when choosing options on random maps' setup it says things like "DELETE" or something else instead of Pangea 60%, etc.

(2) when i play (with the above downloads/patches/etc) this mod I play as Naggaroth (Sp?) and I cannot build The Underways. Naggaroth has a Chaos government and I have five different sewers so I do not understand why this is occuring. Can anyone offer any advice?

1) Delete the labels.txt that came with the mod. It was made for an earlier patch of the game, and embryodead won't update it, as 2.0 is coming soon.
2) No idea. I can't check it either, as I have the beta game on my comp...

NES= Never Ending Story. Check the forum jump button thingy. Its under succesion games.

I HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS:(it could be in the postings but i don't know)

i can t try this mod but it seems to me very good and i will download soon when i coming back home.
I read a post about irrigation of the forests.For example is it possible to irregate a forest and change then the normal forest image in a other forest image (like holy trees or something like that) this would make a better view when you play elves and with your expansion the whole forest expans.
And would it be possible to do this for chaos in the same way only wasteland images ?
I saw the rules on the website and there stands that building cities in the desert isn't able. But khemri are in the desert or ?

I can't get it to work at all and i have no idea what im doing, i've tryed extrcting them and everything! can you give me step by step what to do? i am so sorry but this is really making me mad and it would be really nice if you could help, thanx.

any status on 2.0 ?

I guess the latest info will be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94935)...

@MDS
What you described is not possible in Civ3. Unfortunately we are limited to what the editor has to offer. As for deserts, they usually aren't just deserts, but there are floodplains or hills there, where cities can be built. Also, I recommend you wait 1 week for 2.0 version of the mod, as 1.1 version is quite outdated. 2.0 is bigger and better ;)

@Ledsquee
I can't help you if you can't describe your problem in detail. What are you trying to do and what happens? BTW It's best to wait for 2.0 version, it will come with .exe installer that will do all the job ;)

Ok well i put the files into the right places and all but when i go to play, it says im missing some art, i've tryind eveything it feels like. But if you say the new one comes out in a week i'll wait! i can't wait to see thoses lizard men! i have a Lizardmen army myself. They are the best! I can't wait to see the kroxigors! there my favorit OHOHOH!!! and the stegagon!!! YAY!!!

I wonder why people say "bigger and better", as if they were linearly independent. :D

Tssss, guys.. When I saw Warhammer Fantasy Mod in the forum, I jumped.. Then I saw 1.0. False joy. :P

OH! here is my lord kronq, the latest member to my lizard family!!!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v348/Ledsquee/P0000026.jpg

@embryodead
Ok i'll wait for the next version. Do you ever thought about making special characters for the warhammer mod. Strong generals like in the conquest where you got the shogun and can upgrade it after new techs. i am a 40k player i dont know the names of the characters but i think it would be more warhammer like or ?

Whats happening? Its august and i still havent been able to get my filthy little hands on this juicy mod.

Perhaps he meant August 2005.

vewy funny

Are you planning on releasing 2.0 today perhaps... I'm off today and can play.

Can't you guys give E.D. a break? I'm sure real life issues come before any mod.
@ E.D.: I too, really want to play 2.0, but your mother is far more important, so take as long as you need. ;)

Can't you guys give E.D. a break? I'm sure real life issues come before any mod.
@ E.D.: I too, really want to play 2.0, but your mother is far more important, so take as long as you need. ;)

I actually want the WH-mod in order to escape from my real life.

Be glad, at least you have a life to escape from!!!

Of course real life comes first but hinting that you might release it this weekend does beg the question... no offense meant .. are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet ;)~

Then there is the question what constitutes real life ;)~

Warhammer is real. Im not crazy..... he he he :mischief:

Be glad, at least you have a life to escape from!!!

I take you have no wife and your boss is kind to you.

Or your boss is your wife?

Quite true actually!!! Lucky guess.

I never touched her guv, honest :mischief:

Relax guys. The weekend isn't over yet. Besides, I've learned as a modder that when you set a release time, the powers that be, or whatever, do everything thing they can to get in the way. Wait another week before bugging so much. ;) It will be done and it will be good.

I was going to say, "That's easy for us to say ;)" but you weren't a beta tester were you?

Im just happy I got it!:D:p

(But I dont have time to play. Ironic world eh?)

Hm, a link to the download please, eh? *too lazy to go through the 56 pages ^^*

All in good time......

Im just happy I got it!:D:p

(But I dont have time to play. Ironic world eh?)

There are advantages to unemployment! :goodjob:

stop teasing me with new posts :mad:

Hm, a link to the download please, eh? *too lazy to go through the 56 pages ^^*

I guess the link will appear in the first post - whenever that will be...

As I have already mentioned above, he never said which august, it might be 2004, it could be 2010 - the year we got contact !!!!!!!

uh oh it's there. see 1st post.

@ ED - Dloading now. As before, thanks again for what is sure to be just as addicting as your orignal one was.

V

I like the easyness of instal!!!

Im getting it as soon as i get home!!! im so happy :) :) :) :)

Well if GamesWorkshop is smart .. they will dl and enjoy this mod :) and if they put out anything Warhammer Like the new WarHammer 40k comming out soon I will buy it.

Thanks alot for the time and effort you put into making this mod... if its anywhere near as fun as the first encarnation this will be great, and I'm sure it is ;)

Woop there it is people. Huge thx th to ED and his helpers - will be playing this one for quite a while.

Woohoo, downloading now.

BTW, the new WH40k: Dawn of War game (RTS) is *incredibly* good. Like better than Starcraft good. I've been playing the beta for a few weeks now and there's some minor balance issues but the game is just massively fun.

Finally! Thank you, ED! We all appreciate the work you've put into this! :goodjob:
Can't wait to get home and DL this... :drool:

YAY! Also, downloading right now :thumbsup: :D :D :D

Error: "This file contains invalid data" :sad:

What am i doing wrong??? :(

Edit: The first link is working perfectly...

First of all, TA for the mod! Ive been waiting anxiously for it to be finished, and Im not even a warhammer fan! :p

Secondly, the CivFanatics link seem to be linking to a corrupted 164mb file that "contains invalid data". I think its the same error that Dutch got.

Ill try the other links instead.

Great. I get halfway through downloading it and CivFanataics resets my connection. Hell, there's only 60k of throughput, obviously NOTHING is going on! RESET!

I had no problems DLing from the second site listed.
It all seems to be working well and is a joy to play the new version.
Thank you ED for all your effort in putting this new version together.

I've been playing Lahmien and am enjoying it. Just a few point (more questions than anything else).
There seem to be quite a few tech slots that are blank with red crosses through them. Is this intentional? Are you looking at adding some more techs in soon ED? That would be great!

The Vinyard is a nice touch but has a fairly small effect. Could it do with doing a bit more? I like stuff that relys on resources being available to build. Gives a lot more flavour to the game IMO.

I also like buildings which produce units from time-to-time, especially Wonders. IMO, there's a lot of room for more of these. "Seige Workshops" comes to mind. Any other thoughts?

The Wizard Colleges producing spells are a nice touch and encourage folks to use spell casters. I tend not to myself though and just destroy the spells for the 15 extra shields at my slower towns. Is 15 shields is a bit too high? If so, you could make a new spell the Wizard Colleges produced which was only available that way and lower the shield cost for it.

Also, should spells cost upkeep? This doesn't make too much sense to me. It also detracts from the attactiveness of building them a lot. IMO, if they aren't going to be lethal, they should be POWERFUL especicially if the cost upkeep.

The units seem to have generally higher combat values, which I like. I think version 1 was a bit "flat" generally except for dragons.

The "kings" are well done. I've only played one race so far, but was wondering if the different kings have different stats? I used to edit the version 1 mod to "spice" is up a bit by making the kings a bit more powerful. I made some of them "wheeled" if I thought it made sense or gave them special movement abilities (like Loren moving through forests easy or Vampire having blitz etc.)

A thought about casters and sea movement. This would require another unit to be made, but the animation needment be fancy since it's a kind of "statonary" unit. You could have "Artifacts" which are transports for spells instead of casters. These would be your "big guns" like Dwarven War Thrones etc., but for the game purposes would be "generic" (until some nice person with more skill than I made some more specific ones). Then the caster unit (necro, sorcerers etc.) would just have a long range bombard ability. This would chance the balance of casters a little, but would allow them to travel on ships (which makes sense) while the "huge magical engines of power" (ie artifacts) can't due to their size. The other thing which you could do would be to have artifacts require an escort. If this was used, the Wizard Colleges may produce low level (and upgradable) casters instead of spells.

Although though while I'm at it (hope post's not too long). Using the enslavement ability to reflect "raiding". Make a unit called "Plunder" which can't be built, requires an escort, has no combat ability, and has a reasonable high shield cost. Give some raiding units the ability to "enslave" with the result being Plunder units. When they kill a unit, theirs a chance the get some Plunder, which they have to escort back to a town. This plunder can then be "spent" to speed up a project at the town.

Phew that was a long download time. I gave up trying to download at CFC because the download rate kept dropping and dropping. I went to 3D download site after that and even with the initial queuing that it forces upon you, the download rate was consistently higher at 120KB/sec. This is me downloading at work, I shudder to think what it would be like at home on my 56K modem. Now all I need to do is get the file from my works PC to my home PC (spots flaw in plan). Aha, but I have a handy USB pen drive. Alas it's only got a 64MB capacity so I'll have to split the file up and take it home over 4 or 5 days. Still I'm sure it will be worth the wait. :)

That's quite a rapid and in-depth analysis, you would've made a good beta-tester :P

The techs with red lines in them are where techs that you can't develop are. For example after chivalry if you're an Empire style civ then the "knightly orders" tech appears, if you're Bretonnia "The Grail Quest" appears and if you're none then no tech appears. It's certainly intentional!

@SirVille
First, thanks for all the comments.

Red crosses - try playing with other factions ;). They are for civ-specific tree branches that appear only if you play certain races (with other races, you will see disabled tech in place of Vampirism or Necromancy for example).

Buildings producing units aren't so good, believe me, it becomes a nightmare when playing on huge maps ;) Wonders yes, but buildings no. Spell of Awakening and Spawning Pools mess the game enough... try it, play on a Huge Map, grow, and buy Spell of Awakening to see what I'm talking about ;)

I don't see anything wrong with spells costing upkeep or being disbandable.. on the contrary it makes sense to me.

The "kings" have been long discussed and finally, they are to be "classic" in the basic version of the mod and won't be touched. There might be a mod variation later that changes it for Multiplayer. Again, such changes to Kings only affect human player, since AI never uses kings. I really don't like giving powers to kings if they are gonna stay in a city for the whole game.

Spell ideas - I don't want to introduce more changes that involve human player only - AI is handicapped enough. And long range bombard is something very unbalancing, moreover it would make all the artillery units obsolete...

Same with the plunder... maybe for Multiplayer later, but not for the basic mod.

Downloads:
BTW both files are ok... CFC may have been dropping connection thus giving you a filel cut in half since most ppl used that link obviously as it doesnt force them to wait in queue... Either try another download location or try again later etc. Many ppl downloading a 270 MB file at once generally cause trouble ;)

Hi embryo

First of all, you'r really the best, great mod, excellent work :goodjob: !!!!!!!!!

I found one little and a really large bug :

1. If you select the Hobbit Resource in the 'Pedia the link to the Moot doesn't work but you can access it via other ways.

2.If you select Iron in the Pedia I get "Too many Hyperlinks" messages over and over again (due to the many units listed there). The game crashed after that.

Keep up the good work

Frogger

Found a bug: When you get a military leader and try to create an army the game says it cant find Army Middle Ages/Army Middle Ages.INI and shuts down :( . Anyone know how to fix this?

DL'ing ...

VERY cool!

I got a interesting bug. When playing as Reikland it's the same year the hole game. "Ulricziet". No big deal, and I'm just guessing it wasn't the plan. The game is super. A really big difference. I've only played one game so far, (and I'm still going) so I've plenty to find yet. But so far it looks as it has many more dimensions than v 1. Many more ways to win. Buildiing producing units I think is great that you've developed more. I'm playing Reikland and the crusaders are really fun. And above all, it looks G R E A T. There are no gaps or things that could be better, (well things can always be better but you know what I mean). I love that all the crusaders have distinct looks.

The list of things I like with it will grow.
-Tom

2.If you select Iron in the Pedia I get "Too many Hyperlinks" messages over and over again (due to the many units listed there). The game crashed after that.


err... read the Readme please :rolleyes:

It's not a bug in my mod... it is a problem of Civ3 and nothing can be done about it, except that the game actually doesnt crash. You just have to keep hitting Enter and the popup will dissappear after a while.

Found a bug: When you get a military leader and try to create an army the game says it cant find Army Middle Ages/Army Middle Ages.INI and shuts down :( . Anyone know how to fix this?

Not a bug I'm afraid. You must have moved/renamed your original Civ3 folder... or maybe you have a non-english Civ3 version... which by default dont work with most english mods.

@drzoidberg
First of all, you were on beta-testers list for a reason, why report it now :p
Secondly, no, it's not a bug. Check your C3C version. This looks like scripts.txt mismatch, I bet you have C3C patch 1.20 or 1.21, isntead of 1.22..?

I was just wondering something E.D.
Both vampire nations have Monarchy as their governments.
Doesn't this make them friendly with other nations such as Loren?
Is this how it's supposed to be: Wood Elves and Vampires friendly with each other?
I'm merely asking a question, since i know very little about the WH world.

Edit: Looking at the civilopedia about the 'Undead State', are the Vampire nations supposed to have 'Undead State' as their government?

@Raw is War
No, it doesnt make them as friendly as good vs. good faction. Both Khemri's and Vampire's favorite govt. is Undead State, not Monarchy/Despotism which is their shunned...
When you look at Undead State govt. notice that it comes with a tech :)

Ah, so both Vampire nations are supposed to have their government as Monarchy then?

Great Mod! Even better than I expected it to be (and I had high expectations...). Thx alot :).

Didn't find any bug (only tested it a bit, just made a map and will be off for my first epic game) , but one thing I'd maybe call a little unbelanced is the Great Library - in my last game (Reikland on Emperor, huge map), I headed straight for literature, got a Scientific leader for chronicles, immediately rushed it and was quite astonished to see that I didn't have to bother researching anything myself for about two complete ages (rest of ancient times, which was allmost everything inthere, the complete dak ages and maybe some more techs of the magic era, if noone heads for education first...). I think it's a real joker even in vanilla civ, but imho, that's a little bit too much.
Nothing big, but in case there will be another version anytime (which I doubt, regarding how far 2.0 pushes civ3's capabilities to the limit), making it obsolete a bit earlier could be considered...

@Raw is War
Yes... they start with Monarchy and switch to Undead State later. If you look at the civilopedia you should also notice that govts also enable certain buildings, that's one of the reasons.

OOOOOOoooooohohhhhhh......... CRAP!

I'm on a phoneline that never goes above 26.6Kbps.

It's going to be a LONG week :D

My Lizardmen are still affected by plague and disease. My capital got the Black Death and my jungle cities never had any population because all the citizens kept dying.

@Lord Khorak
Disease Immunity doesn't eliminate the plague but reduces it's strength, I think it's stated in the pedia... It's a static civ3 effect, a modder has no control over it. Still consider yourself unlucky ;) I had been playing with Lizardmen (and other factions) with jungle cities and performed very well with only a couple of units lost during the whole game.

That reminds me, when playing as one of the vampiric nations, some of my skeletons died from diease. Oh well, that's the way the game works, I'll survive!

I have the English version of both conquests and civ3, and I have patch 1.22 installed. Still I get messages about unit files not being where theyre supposed to.

I tried copying all the unit files and moving them around but it just doesnt seem to help :p .

Im fully aware that noone else has this problem and that I only got myself to blame, still, if someone could be so kind as to inform me where the heck I should put all the unit files Id much appreciate it. Ive been waiting for this mod for months now, you have no idea how annoying it is having it on your computer and still not being able to play :crazyeye: :lol: .

@Lord Khorak
Disease Immunity doesn't eliminate the plague but reduces it's strength, I think it's stated in the pedia... It's a static civ3 effect, a modder has no control over it. Still consider yourself unlucky ;) I had been playing with Lizardmen (and other factions) with jungle cities and performed very well with only a couple of units lost during the whole game.

Unlucky? Tiny little microbes have committed wholesale slaughter here. This is an invasion. I need more Skinks...

You know, it's not even really accurate to complain about the Slann being decimated by disease- in the WH world the skaven only made their huge military advances into Lustria by subjecting the lizardmen to disease. Perhaps they shouldn't suffer from jungle disease period, but the Black Death should affect them just like everyone else.

@Gabryel Karolin
Let me just say that the mod refers to "Army Middle Ages" *without* any path given, which means that Civ3 looks for it in its own Units folder first. If there is no "Army Middle Ages" in your Civ3/Units folder... then your Civ3 install is screwed :S

You know, it's not even really accurate to complain about the Slann being decimated by disease- in the WH world the skaven only made their huge military advances into Lustria by subjecting the lizardmen to disease. Perhaps they shouldn't suffer from jungle disease period, but the Black Death should affect them just like everyone else.

It is accurate to report something you think isn't meant to happen in the game though. *starts wildly slapping Mr. Do*

So much complains about plagues and stuff, I'm soon ruler of the world with my goblins and I have suffered from several diseases and plagues. Think goblin here, if the first ten dies, send in the next ten, this tactics works great consider the goblins even can't count to ten. My little green men will dominate soon.

Thank's Mr Embryodead for a fantastic scenario, truly 11 stars out of ten (still can't count) and thanks for the guy who made the Deathroller unit, dwarves rules bloodbowl.

I just wanted to thank you embryo for all the work that has gone into the mod. I am downloading at the moment (damn 56k) and I can't wait to get into the new mod, as I loved the old one heaps. Keep up the good work.

will there be one for ptw

Embryodead:

Superb job. I wish my real life had given me more time to help out on the beta.....

Visually stunning and an excellent (and addictive) play.

Any chance we'll get a Warhammer map to go with it?

Misfit

Embryodead, you have made a masterpiece. BTW, I looked in my C: drive in the WH 2.0 folder, and I cant find any of the leaderheads, :( I really want to see em for my mod, so could you please put up the new leaderheads? (specifically the Reptilian one, ;)

Embryo Dead As soon as i got home from school yesterday i began downloading it (damm 56k). It only finished this morning so i havnt had time to play yet but i already know its great. Only one question can you tell us any story lines from any of the future scenarios?

Anywho i know there going to be supurb and i cant wait.

By the way i downloaded it fine. To the extent of my knowledge i went to ben about half way through.

@odintheking
How would you see the leaderheads in the game if they were not on your disk? ;)
Leaderheads flics are located in Conquests\Net Art folder, while PCXs are in Conquests\WH2\Art folder.

@disturbed bacon
No PTW version, sorry. C3C isn't expensive now, and offers a lot of features and new possibilities, it's really worth buying.

@Misfit_travel / Tyrion
There will be maps of Warhammer world. As for the "historical" scenarios, the ones I play will be based on the Old World map ie. the Rise of the Empire, in which your goal will be to unite the Empire starting from just 1 city, or Storm of Chaos based on the Warhammer Battle campaign.

DL worked just fine and the installation routine was very professionally done and simple to use! :goodjob:

Started several games yesterday evening (just to get a look at the different tech trees ;) ) and am now playing as Amazons.

Haven't gotten all that far into any game yet, but everything looks great so far! Thanks for the good work! :clap:

Love everything about the mod, thank you very much.

Bug Report (If you didnt already know and this isnt a bug) The Slann (Lizardy mmm) Start with a human looking settler. Nothing too big cos when you build them later they are normal. Just thought you should know. :) Great Great Mod

Noooooooot a bug, but an inevitable disrepency that is extremely easy to ignore ;)

@Tyrion
It's not a bug ...

This is Civ3 :rolleyes:

@odintheking
How would you see the leaderheads in the game if they were not on your disk? ;)
Leaderheads flics are located in Conquests\Net Art folder, while PCXs are in Conquests\WH2\Art folder.
.... *slaps hand to forehead* Why did you move it??? It was originally supposed to be in the Vanilla folder... :rolleyes:

It is accurate to report something you think isn't meant to happen in the game though. *starts wildly slapping Mr. Do*

Edit: Sometimes I forget that not everyone has ahd the privelige of having the Lizardmen in their games for the last half a year...

Looks amazing. Thanx for all the work. Can't wait to play.

Damm You Firaxis DAMM YOOOOOU. Anyway ive been playing as slaan and its going well. Two things high elven archer is not only stronger then mine but faster. I know skink has swamp and jungle movement but thats useless seing as he can only move 1. Sorry bout bringing probs up this is still the best mod anyone has ever made. I seresly think you might want to take a look at making a Warhammer fantasy mod for Rome Total War when it comes out.

P.S I really really liked amazon warrior. Grrrrrr. Topless b**** fights here i come.

... I know skink has swamp and jungle movement but thats useless seing as he can only move 1. ...
Try to make a skink archer army ;)

OOO Lots of little lizard friends. (I guess you know what your talking about ill try it.)

I just heard about this having been released and will spend my morning on the download~

Thanks embryodead, by all previews & accounts, this is quite
the accomplishment. :king: :goodjob:

Lizards, lizards, lizards and more lizards, they are all over me, my goblins break to easily, just wait you lizard friends, I soon send out my ogres and shamans so you all guys that seems to love lizards you should change you likings, because I will rule this world.

And now at the end you understand the power of the goblin side.

Hahahahahaha (with a pitchy tone).

Deleted and reinstalled everything... now I cant even load the WH2-mod cause when I do the game tells me files are missing. Great :p, guess Ill have to buy new copies of civ3 and conquests, gah.

You haven't forgot to patch it up to 1.22. And sometimes when you uninstall a game, there are left-over files, sometimes it helps if you delete them. I don't know about civ3 but the game morrowind has an amazing memory, i.e. during the install the computer sometimes don't install a fíle if a newer (even corrupt) file already already exist.

Gabryel: If you're doing everything from scratch, this is a 100% working step-by-step guide ;)

0. Uninstall Civ3, C3C, PTW, patches, and WH mod
1. Install Civ3
2. Install Conquests
3. Install Conquests 1.22 patch
4. Install Warhammer Mod

Try doing it in default folders, at least with Conquets... though I don't have my Civ3 in default folders and still had no probs.

Thank you ED. This is amazing. I've had a blast staying up way to late last night, just had to get my corsairs into action! Thank you for all the time and energy you've spent to bring this to us. You did GREAT!

Edit: Sometimes I forget that not everyone has ahd the privelige of having the Lizardmen in their games for the last half a year...

Yes. Don't make me slap you again. I slap with my right hand, which is also my mouse hand, which controls Warhammer 2.0. The consequences would be dire if I were to injure it. *ominous music and lightning flash*

...I'd probably just cry a bit.

Well, all was going well as Lahmia, until i ran into a problem.
After playing NWN for a bit I decided to load up C3C to continue my game but i got an error message when i tried to load up my save, and now I can't continue the save anymore because of it. :(

I never saw anything like that in my whole Civ3 life, nor any of testers did... maybe your save file got corrupted (scandisk?).

Seems like my Conquest disc has gone bad somehow, Ill try re-installing from another copy (Displays error messages when I try to uninstall, installs units folders with no files in them, refuses to update beyond v 1.0, etc etc..)

Pretty soon everything goes out the window :mad: .

@Gabryel Karolin

I'm no expert with computers, but consider the possibility that one of your memory chips has gone bad. One of the symptoms for that is installations failing. Check whether other programs install properly.


And oh yes, congratulations to ED for finishing this baby of yours. I've downloaded the final, but haven't had the time to play yet - that'll change in the near future though. :)

I can't down load your mod. It downloads up until 99% and then nothing happens. :blush: :(

You might just not be giving itenough time- I know when my PC finishes particularly large downloads it can take many minutes before it transfers the file from the internet cache to whatever directory you chose to download it to...

It appears Ive got it working now, I was right in my assumption that it was my Conquests disc that got coruppted somehow.

Big thanks to everyone who took some of their time helping me out!

Now Im of conquesring the world as Lahmia :D

Mallek, when you download/install/uninstall, whenever their is a %bar involved it always is the last percent that takes the longest. I wonder wy and can we blame Bill G for that too.

Hey Embrodead, isn't Advanced Seige in your mod from Total Annihilation: Kingdoms?

I've been playing the first Warhammer mod non-stop since it came out, downloaded the new one last night and had a play. It is sooo cooool. I can see my future including no sleep whatsoever...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great work ED. I only recently became reacquainted with Civ 3, and picked up on the release of this mod a week or two ago. I drooled over it until finally snagging it the other morning (I was almost late for work!) One issue though, and it could be something as simple as a bad installation, but:


http://home.rochester.rr.com/fledglingcrunch/images/OHNOS.JPG

I'm playing as the Dark Elves, with a couple Cathay, Ungol and Empire cities within view of my massed hordes. After I had this crash the first time, I went back and manually added/renamed a file to my Siamese Swordsman folder, but to no avail. Apologies if this has already been adressed/resolved.

I couldn't get the fireblast spell to load onto my Bretonnian damsel...

With that past error (the oneED hadnt seen before) i have only seen that once. It happend to one of my Rhyes of Civilization games, it was damm annoying as i only had about 40 turns left and then i would have won. Howevedr i think the ending was somewhat different ill post it too so you can see it. Damm i jst tried to load it and lo and behold it worked. :) the only thing i can think of is i reinstalled my patch for this mod, somehow it had uninstalled. Try reinstalling but move the save file first.
Anyhow good luck.

For those who don't like playing WH with random maps, I uploaded this scenario I did for myself so you have something to play with until the real deal comes out. I kinda rushed it (couldn't wait to play :D), so don't expect too much.

It's a large map with all civs. cities have been pre-placed and the ability to build settlers has been removed to prevent the game from slowing down too much in the later stages. All civs have 4-8 cities, totalling about 125 and the optimum number of cities has been lowered to 16... Have fun :)

@Fledgling Death
No one of the tester nor me got this error, it isn't a bug, it's a file of Civ3, if you don't have it... then I cannot help :-\
(Inside your Civilization 3/Art/Units/Warrior folder, you should have WarriorDeathGrunt.wav)

Found an oddity; the game looks for "Leader Ancient Times.INI" in a folder called "Leader Ancient Times", however there are no such things instead it SHOULD be looking for "Leader Ancient.INI" in the "Leader Ancient" folder. Renamed it all, seems to be working now.

Your map looks good so far btw Billy Rubin :goodjob:

Culturally linked start does not work, all the settlers start in the same area.
I also look forward to the revised Warhammer World Map. :)

Excellent work Embryodead, I am proud of you, the Mod is excellent so far.

I don't think the culturally-linked thing is meant to work, is it?

Well it should,since that would create interesting games.

I encountered the same error as fledgling, except it was with an English Pikeman unit. If it's some error in my civ files, how do I go in there and fix it?

was disapointing because my corsairs were about to finally get good use, but I started a new game with out any human kingdoms (figured they would be the ones with english pikemen) and the game ran fine. My orcish hordes destroyed all before them!

Thanks for the mod, and a pre-emptive thanks to anyone who can help me with the english pikemen issue.

What an odd problem you two have... do you have the regular civ 3~art~units~ files in their usual position?

Also has anyone else noticed anything with spells not being able to load into spellcasters, or is it just me in my current game?

Well it should,since that would create interesting games.

With this mod you get an interesting game every single time you start a new one ;)

ARRGH!
I hate the Norse Marauder graphic! Is there an alternative? (Sorry, but I'm not a big AoK conversion fan, they look too out of place. Maybe a color-conversion or size difference of the berserker or huscarl or some other axe-wielding unit? I almost hate it enough to try to make my first humanoid unit, but it'd probably look worse than the AoK unit.) Anyway, thats about my only complaint, the mod is excellent! My brother and I have been playing for a couple of hours every night. :goodjob:
Also, I'm pretty sure there's a reason this wouldn't work (or else you'd have tried it), but couldn't you set the starting units to none in the rules and change player data so the civ's start with their civ-specific settler? Will civ not allow you to not have a starting unit in the rules? If a starting unit is required, couldn't you set the starting unit to some generic gaurdian unit (i.e. some stone warrior or smoething to help prevent rushes?) Or is the problem in changing player data?

Ok, I downloaded and installed the mod, as said in somewhere here, to the "Civ3/Civ3C/Scenarios"-file, and then tried to play the game, but how? There's no -.exe to the mod, and I don't see if there's any other way, so please tell me, what am I doing wrong?

To the fellow posting before me, I dont' think you're supposed to save this into the folders, I saved it to desktop and launched the exe from there.

To Mr. Do:

I think I have everything in it's folders :) I've never used a mod, and never fiddled around with them, so I must have them there. Is there any way I can get into the mod and change what ever model or sound it's missing to something else? i'm sure the "english pikeman" is an awesome moddle, but i'd just as soon change it to the standard one and get back to war.

Thank ye sir,

To Semulin: That didin't work for me. Empyrodead (Was that right?), please, tell me, where to install?

@Aapel1:

IIRC, you have to apply the "Civ3/Civ3C" directory as directory of install..
Just accept the default installation directory

Ok, I downloaded and installed the mod, as said in somewhere here, to the "Civ3/Civ3C/Scenarios"-file, and then tried to play the game, but how? There's no -.exe to the mod, and I don't see if there's any other way, so please tell me, what am I doing wrong?


Seems like you installed it right, but you don't know how to start the game? Just start normal Conquests game, then in the main menu there is a point called civ content or something, go there and select WH2 or something like that (it is described in the mods readme I think...)

To Mr. Do:

I think I have everything in it's folders :)

I already know you think everything's in its right place, which is why I've asked that you actually go and physically check that the folders exist.
Civ 3 -> Art -> Units then the file that was supposed to be there. If it's definitely there, then that will tell us more about the problem.

Thanks Mr Do, sorry to be a dumb arse, i'm just new to the whole modding thingy, i'll go check tonight and post tomorrow if i can't figure it out.

No problem... the files are almost certainly there. Judging by the screenshot posted before it looks like there's an issue that you and he have that the rest of us don't. Also let us know which version of conquests you're using.

I was wondering if it is possible to buy and use conquests with civ3 Gold? i really dont want to buy the vanilla version if I dont have to.

Also is it possible to use PARTS of this mod with ptw. if so what parts can i use?

many thanks

MR Do

What I mean, is to make the Old World peoples to start in the same region, same applies to Lustrian Oriental , evil people and so on

Argh, I want to play 2.0 so badly, but I'm here in MA, on my laptop with a 32k modem, with a slow computer :cry". Guess I just have to wait two weeks to get back to CT :ohwell:.

Important
For Gabryel Karolin and others having problems with crashes:
- it seems that some of you have non-standard Civ3/C3C versions with folders/files named differently ... for most people everything works, since most people have these folders named normally (ie. Leader Ancient Times, not Leader Ancient). As a proof I can only show a DEFAULT pedia icons from Conquets:
#ANIMNAME_PRTO_Leader_ERAS_Ancient_Times
Leader Ancient Times

Which some of you have different I guess. As a modder, I dont have control over it... if you have differently named folders, the mod cannot detect and fix it in any way... The possibilities I see may be "packages" like Civ3 Gold, that mess up everything. And most likely, you will get such problems with any huge mod, at least any one that uses original Civ3 files along with custom ones.

@Mr. Will
You can't setup different starting units, unless you turn Custom Player Data on. And if you do, you end up with fixed number of factions... which is unacceptable since you are supposed to choose the size of the world and number of factions you want to play with.

@disturbed bacon
You can't use this mod with PTW at all. You need C3C. C3C should work with Civ3 Gold, though I have a feeling that Civ3 Gold is a messed up edition that causes problems...

@Aapel1
You seem not to know how to run mods simply. Run Conquests, choose "Civ-Content" from the menu and then choose file "WH2.biq".

Again, all those who have crashes, please let me know what versions of Civ3/C3C do you have. Language/Region(US/Euro)/Edition (ie. Civ3 Gold or other bundle). It won't help you much but at least I will not to tell people that their Civ3 Gold or w/e if f***** up.

What are your reasons for not including railroads as a worker ability?

If its a concern that railroads don't fit the War Hammer universe, or more generically a sword & sorcery theme, you could treat it as a late invention tied to steam power with only a "Dwarven Engineer" unit (available to everyone, on the idea that its Dwarves hiring themselves out, but perhaps with an identical unit that the Dwarven tribe could build cheaper with less maintenance) capable of building Railroads. Alternatively, a new tech with more fantastic (as in fantasy) name such as "Ley Lines" (like in Test of Time) or "Imperial Highways" could be added.

Especially with HUGE maps, the inability to more units around a large empire quickly really impedes game play, as it takes forever to move troops into battle. The computer factions seem mostly capable of exploiting railroads, so its not such a human edge that it unbalances the game.

We have discussed this and i guess i can forgive you for not actually reading through the entire Thread. Its not going to happen. As far as i know.

For many people, including me, Railraods actually suck hard even in epic game... and for this mod, it doesnt fit at all... instead, you get flying units that move 9 squares per turn, over any terrain. That's perfectly enough for Huge maps (I play on Huge 90% of the time).

I play on bigger than huge (256x256 usually), but I definately agree with no railroads. The only problem is that you can't get the production bonus from them, which really screws up some parts of game balance, but nothing too terribly vital. I'm wrestling with the "to RR or not to RR" question for my own mod.

Alright Love this mod... ;) now a question... on the tech tree there is a sman circle with a bar through it meaning (no)? on some of the advances... even if I Pick the advance I get the advance and the benifit... so what does the no symbol mean..?

I love the way wizard guilds kick out spells. Great job on the mod.

As far as railroads go .. the master of magic (old game) it was a magical spell that turned the roads gold...I'm not sure either way on including them or not.

Found a crash.. you may know about it already... I didnt read much of all the threads..
I will post it anyway... If you load a fireball or the smaller version of the spell on a ship..and move to the coast and use the unload all function it will crash,, err lock up.
So you can load and fire spells from ships just dont unload them onto a coastal square ..didnt try it with a spell carrier in the square because you cant load them onto ships.

First of all, I like to thank you, embryodead, for creating such a wonderful mod. It's been pure joy playing it so far.

I only just stumbled on a wonder picture missing, that is the picture for the "Pillar of Skulls". It should be located in the scenario folder art\wonder splash\ and should be named skulls.pcx, but instead it's missing.

My Conquests Version is installed in the default folder as well with patch 1.22 installed. As your mod is self-installing and I guess I can choose the proper directory there should be no problem regarding the installation. My guess is that it's simply missing and I would really appreciate it if you just could upload it here so I might add it.

Thanks a lot and thanks again for creating such a gorgeous mod. I especially like the different tech trees :)

I got an English version of C3C made for distribution in the Netherlands, Finland, Sweden and Portugal (I would love to hear the logic behind grouping those four together). It seems this version has that problem with folders having non-default names.

However that copy of C3C went bad somehow and I had to use another one to re-install and I experienced the same problems.

I guess I could just re-name the folders and files as the game progress and I find more and more strange linkings, could be worth it, annoying though.

To Embyrodead: Well, tried that, but for some reason, I didin't find any "WH.biq" in the Civ-Content..... *strange* Well, have to un"zip" the mod again and try again.

Well, enough of this tech stuff, all I need to say is
THANK YOU SO MUCH, I NOW HATE YOU !! :mad:
Why hate, well, I do still need my sleep, but you've now taken it away from me with this mod. To busy paying it to sleep :p
(& all my instalation work fine thanks)

Well, enough of this tech stuff, all I need to say is
THANK YOU SO MUCH, I NOW HATE YOU !! :mad:
Why hate, well, I do still need my sleep, but you've now taken it away from me with this mod. To busy paying it to sleep :p
(& all my instalation work fine thanks)

True CivFanatics know that sleep and food are optional - only Civ is essential! :lol:

Sleep are for amateurs!

MR Do

What I mean, is to make the Old World peoples to start in the same region, same applies to Lustrian Oriental , evil people and so on

That's not the way the system works. If you selected cultural starting locations every human faction would start near each other (with the exception of the Arabyan-styled and Amazonian ones, but including the Orientals), the Elves and Amazons would all start near each other, the Lizardmen would start near the Chaotic factions... I just can't see cultural starting locations being any more fun than simply random placements, although it is a matter of opinion.

Actually the cultural start doesn't modify where a faction starts, but rather which factions start the game. Thus it gives a game with most evil civs in, or most human, and so on.
BTW skulls.pcx is missing in my folder too, though I have it in the old beta folder. So that (and the damsel) seems to be the first "real" bugs...

Ok, now I transferred the WH.biq to the right direction, but the game want's some text about Herdstone or something, so, I finally gave up the dream of having the orginal C3C as the main game and the Warhammer mod as a -.biq scenario. *installing to the Conquests-directory.*

This updated mod is great, I can't wait for the maps and scenarios.:D

Hi, embryodead
i didn´t get Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0, my connection is too slow, should you like help me, the another link doesn´t work
Any option, 4 parts, pls

Ok, Thanks a lot :)

@Aapel1
I really don't know what are you doing... You shouldn't have unzipped ANYTHING. The file you downloaded is an exe which is an installer, that automatically installs the files in the right folders (maybe check if it points to the right folder during installation - it should detect your COnquets folder, but its good to double-check).

@Webrider
The "NO" symbol is a normal Civ3 feature, present in Epic Game. It just means that the tech is not required for Era advance.
As for the freeze... well I found out it's because of Immobile flag. Then, there are basically two options... don't use Unload All when using spells (you are not supposed to unload spells onto the ground anyway)... or I remove spells from the mod completly :-\

@Gosl
I dependant on the community sites, I can't really upload more stuff... I recommend using some download manager that supports resumes. And there are 3 links, for the third one you have to register at CDG forums to download.

@Brin teGhune
Missing skulls.pcx seems to be first critical bug... a small patch is inevitable :( And yeah, the file was in the beta, but didnt got included in the installer (to which I had to load each file seperately so to speak). I'll try to upload 2.01 patch today or tomorrow.

important

Can any owner of "custom" Civ3 version (it seems that it's vanilla civ3 problem, not c3c) - meaning anyone expriencing crashes other than because of missing "skulls.pcx" - send me a list of files that don't match. To do this, open WH2.biq in the editor, make a random map and place ALL units that are in game on it. It will take a while... but you will get gratitude of me and other users ;) Then run the game repeatedly, write down error, fix it (by copying and renaming a given folder or file) and so on, until there are no errors. I will gather all the info and make a special patch for those people with different folders.

Yea i figured just not unloading the spell would work.. and it did I played till 4:30 am last night .. work at 7:30 ;)~ and your right .. its much better then no spells option... any way was just mentioning it .. in case you knew a way to mod it out of the equation.. you can bet its better to have to remember not to unload spells then not have them. I had actually forgotten I loaded them earlier and wondered if I hit unload all if they wouldn't unload figured they would just stay in the ship. Anyway thanks for the answers... always wondered what the no symbols meant... (but obviously not enough to look it up in the manual ;) ) I lived in the Civ II manual but hardly even looked at any of the CIV III documentation.

Thanks again for the best MOD well to my taste anyway :)

I thought ED knew about the problem with spells and boats. One of the MoM testers encountered the same problem so I made ships carry only foot units and made all other units apart from spells foot units.

This mid is the 1st personal game I have played over the last year and 1/2. Thank you so very much for your hard work on this. I am currently taking over the world with High Elves! Elven Bow rock :rockon:

:goodjob: Wow! This is an incredible mod! So many new stuff, especially for me since I just heard about it a few week ago and never downloaded the first version. I had to drop from emperor to regent because I got beaten very fast in my first monarch game! I will need some time to adjust to this mod.

I am having trouble finding what units each civ (including mine) can build. When looking at a tech (warrior code for example), I see it permits a lot of units, most of them for only a couple of civ. Finding the one corresponding to a specific civ takes a long time. I would really like if the civilopedia entry for each civ listed their units.

@fbouthil If you go to the Science advisor's Big Picture the Units and Improvements shown in the Box are those you can build. For instance If i was Slaan and i went to the big picture and looked at Ballistics i would only see the Skink Archer Unit.

@ Gosl Try getting Get Right. I have the trial version and it doesnt force me to buy it only asks me to. Ive downloaded 187 files. Sure you cant use some features but the only ones you really need are the Resume option and the Acceleration.

Can someone make me an Avatar out of the Chaos Warrior Civlopedia Pic?

@Tyrion - It's easy, just take the chaos warrior large pcx file from art-tech chooser- icons- in the warhammer mod files, and resize it to 70 by 70 in PSP or whatever.

In my opinion the mod is very well done and balanced, so congratulations :)

One thing that did annoy the hell out of me though was the way that civs collapse after 1 city is taken. What would I do on the mod to change this?

What do you mean, some short game mode? Just... don't select regicide or any other elimination style modes.

No, when I select the scenario it doesn't let me choose any of those as it normally does. I'm guessing I have to do something in the editor mode or something.

That's not the way the system works. If you selected cultural starting locations every human faction would start near each other (with the exception of the Arabyan-styled and Amazonian ones, but including the Orientals), the Elves and Amazons would all start near each other, the Lizardmen would start near the Chaotic factions... I just can't see cultural starting locations being any more fun than simply random placements, although it is a matter of opinion.


Well, I have played Warhammer 1986-1991, so call me conservative, but I like the way the original world was designed with a real structure, as opposed to the open ended and US driven D&D, what made warhammer better than D&D, was the thororugh structure and design of a comprehensive world with a narrative resembling medieval Europe. Now it has been put into an Americanized low context fantasy mod with warhammer elements. It is an excellent mod, but would be brilliant with culturally linked starting locations plus some believable scenario maps they promised back in July.

but great job Mr Do and embryodead. Best Mod ever

Apologize my Warhammer ideological purity.

@privatehudson

I'm 99% certain that you aren't running Conquests 1.22 as you should. Someone had the same problem with MoM and it was fixed by installing the latest patch.

@Provolution
Maps were promised and they will be available, so stop whining :p As for your expectations of "culturally linked starting locations", you demand something that is not possible in Civ3 editor, so...

fbouthil:
I am having trouble finding what units each civ (including mine) can build. When looking at a tech (warrior code for example), I see it permits a lot of units, most of them for only a couple of civ. Finding the one corresponding to a specific civ takes a long time. I would really like if the civilopedia entry for each civ listed their units.

Civilopedia entry for each unit shows who can build it ...

@privatehudson
It's a short game mode of Civ3 called Elimination. Just turn it off in player setup...

Yes, my goblin finally won by, a quest victory, one turn before I probably had won by culture, damn, why didn't I check! (wouldn't that be the ultimate humiliation, a goblin team won by it's great culture), just had to brag here, a little hint to those lizard loving creature that made an utterance here before.

And yes, everything worked okey, just one question, what a hell is an exploding sheep? Whatever it is I wan't them, hehehehe.

*mumbling about how stupid I am* Ok, now it works, both the orginal game and the WH mod. The only strange thing is that the cities in the orginal game are now the same type as in WH and that the landscape is WH-style ^^ Oh, by the way, a small bug, that I don't think is in the orginal game normally. You see, it's the way that enemy units that are Fortified, in a city at least, they do the fortifying move every turn, so that the sound of clancing weapons comes out and such. Very annoying, but harmless.

The fortification move that the computer does, is a civ3 thing, the computer do that if there is a threat nearby (he dislikes or hates you), especially fast units do this (I think).

Another annoying thing (has nothing to do with this mod. it's a civ3 thing) is sometimes (if set on auto) a worker goes one square then changing his mind and go back and then changing his mind again a go back again, this can happen for a long time of turns, so watch your little working men, if you have twenty something plus workers and they all are set on auto, it is easy to overlook this bad habbits.

Too bad we all live in different time zones otherwise i could probaly get a decent multiplayer WH experiance.

It works fine now thanks :)