COLOR=darkred]Again take a few seconds to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the divided spoiler rules.[/COLOR]

This is the Fourth and final spoiler thread to support discussion of the Gotm24-Korea.

The objective of these divided spoiler threads is to provide a little organization to the discussion that will help more people find the topics that they are interested in without having to rummage through the entire game discussion.

The test for access to this spoiler thread is simple:

you must have submitted your final save file from playing the game.

You may discuss any information from the game but if you are posting reports of events and/or activities in the Ancient, Medieval, or Industrial portions of the game, those reports should be placed in the correct spoiler for that time segment of the game.

One thing we would like to hear in particular is how any players may have progressed in warfare events that would have occurred after the discovery of Flight in your game.

If you aimed for the Diplomatic victory, please make sure to summarize the key things that you did to help assure yourself of a victorious campaign to become Secretary General of the UN.

This thread is a great opportunity to post an overall summary of how your game progressed. This thread is primarily intended to discuss the capstone modern age events from those games that players did not choose to win in the middle or industrial ages.

We hope that all players have enjoyed this game and that you are looking forward to Gotm25-Mongols and perhaps the Persia Culture game in Game6-2 of the Medal Play Series.

I did enjoy that game a great deal... secured a diplomatic win.

Unfortunately my agressive days were over by the early part of the industrial age. I had a short conflict just before the building of the UN:

I had been gifting techs, luxuries and cash to the other nations from early in the middle ages, to speed up the tech pace and build goodwill with them. Unfortunately the unpronouncable Shia...<mumble>...wze (sic? :)) landed 6 cavalries on my shores. I sandbagged them in with 30+ tanks/mech infantry (free computers), they attacked and it was a very short war :)

That map was great - the combined Japanese nations were powerful and seemed inclined to trade amongst each other. Trading peacefully with them seemed fine, but conquest would not have been at all easy...

previous post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1297168#post1297168)

Still racing through the tech tree with no support from the AIs, I reached the modern age in 1290 AD I think, and also got Computers as my free tech. I used scroll-ahead to immediately get the research labs in most cities. With the help of the labs, research time for Fission was reduced from 6 to 4 turns ! The AIs hadn't even gotten Combustion by the time I researched it.

The Tokugawa were easily the most powerful on the other continent, so I figured they'd be the opponents. Gave everyone except the Goguryeo survivors (who had an MPP with Toku) Combustion for a military alliance, gifted around some gold, luxes and resources just to be sure, then triggered the vote in 1310 AD - everyone voted for me but Toku & gouryeo. Firaxis score 5512, Jason score 7700.

I'm glad the Asian pack makes another appearance in GOTM25 - hopefully I'll be able to see some more of the Japanese units in particular. At the pace I was researching, I might have been able to get to Modern Armour before the AIs got Tanks, so a military victory would have been possible too but would have been too much of a foregone conclusion.

What helped me get so far ahead in research was, I think, not getting into many wars (though this led to smaller territory & score), focusing on infra instead, the saved up-money from TGL used for rushing research infra and in particular, the high population I got early on from building the Pyramids.

Great game, and wonderful flavour ! :goodjob:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifPREDATOR [civ3mac] 1.29

It happened as predicted in the last post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1298779#post1298779).

Korea entered Modern Times in 1220. Free tech was rocketry. Delay Palace pre-build by stop working high-shield tiles for 4 turns. Research fission at 100%.

In 1240 Chosogabe put a lone cavalry on our coast. We surround it strong troops and donate them rubber. Nothing happens afterwards. In 1250 we grease everybody up to their ears. In 1255, fission is researched, Palace pre-build is switched to UN and completes.

UN vote is between Wang Kon and Toyohisa San.
The bastard votes for himself and Ieyasu San supports him. Everybody else votes for Wang Kon the Magnificent who is elected Sec General with 6:2 votes.
Firaxis score 7260. Jason score 8881.

Analysis: What should I have done to progress faster?
The Great Library resulted in getting used to do no research. Improving infrastructure gave a lot of cash and I did research again only for steam. Thus Middle Ages took a long time.
Till the end the Korean workers were not done improving all tiles worked. I should have built some more.
I researched the optional sanitation wasting 4 turns.
Switching to democracy took 8 turns of anarchy. Staying republic, I might have needed 5 turns to research maybe 2 techs, but still I would have saved 6 turns.

My previous post ended with a (unprovoked) war against the Han and shortly before getting motorized transportation. Date was ending of 14th century, so you already see, that I was much slower than most of you. The war against Han had just lasted long enough, so he accepted my envoy and I made peace with him. He had gained one city. I changed to Democracy, since my people were getting angry at wartime while I destroyed the last two cities of pink on barb island.

Enter the Modern Times. I started to prebuild UN and to focus on pampering the other nations. Han, who had a stack of tanks near my border press-ganged me for Fission and (I don't know how he did this) he built the UN before me.

Now what? I didn't know what to do, since he did not hold elections. I played some more turns, building SETI, Internet, Cure for Cancer and Longevity. Then I decided to ask whether one could turn in a game that was not finished with the required victory condition (which was possible). So I went for space race, since I could not hope to win by military or culture. Finished in 1725. Score: 3694/Jason: 5018

To do's for next diplomatic victory:
- keep more military units
- save a leader to build UN
- have wars finished earlier to change to Democracy earlier
- plan for other victory conditions if UN fails

Originally posted by test_specimen
I changed to Democracy, since my people were getting angry at wartime while I destroyed the last two cities of pink on barb island.:confused: Changing to democracy increases war weariness compared to republic. Also the Han-war-induced ww stopped the turn after you made peace with them.
Enter the Modern Times. I started to prebuild UN..... Han....... (I don't know how he did this) he built the UN before me.Pre-building should start much earlier. Try to calculate in how many turns you will finish the required research and start the pre-build accordingly. You can make minor adjustments by micromanaging the tiles worked. Don't forget that the AIs have a production bonus on higher difficulties, e.g. you need 1000 shields, AIs only 800 on emperor, 600 on deity.

Up to MassProd. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1297184#post1297184)

I was peaceful most cities on wealth and with an ROP with Togukawa... trading and searching towards UN as fast as possible but ...

1240 AD : Sneak Attack of Tokugawa, grabbing one town the next turn with dyes. With all the MPP around, I should have been more cautious on defense :mad:. My army consists of 5 Cavs & 25 Infantries & 1 Rifleman & 2 Transports & 1 siege cannon & 12 Kensai. I am so dumb :cry: that I forget to upgrade outdated units despite sitting on GP.
I gather every-body against Tokugawa. He is #2 on the list so it is not that bad to have this global war. But I am not ready for it …I am searching Flight due in 3 turns and then I need to search Radio. My cities on wealth go to produce some tanks.

Han Alliance vs Tokugawa for 57 GP & 6 GPT vs Incense
Takeda Alliance vs Tokugawa & Espionage & 107 GP & 110 GPT vs Refining
Shimazu : Alliance vs Tokugawa & 59 GP & 141 GPT vs Refining
Chosogabe : Alliance vs Tokugawa & 57 GP & 12 GPT vs Refining
Oda has MPP so attack will trigger war against most of the other civs (except me !)

I have also marauding Han forces in my territory this does not look good at all. I should have built up some week line of defense in front of forces hoping they will return. I gather my workers to build Fortresses (Ligne Maginot like…) I should have done this much earlier instead of having all cities on wealth and pile of workers fortified while pressing return :(
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24_1250ad.jpg

1250 AD. How predicable :( Han forces sneak attack despite the deal I had with them, at least they will have a bad rep (I was dealing Wines & Ivory with them). Thanks to this two turns of preparation, I have some tanks ready for counter-attack but this is going to be tough. I do not no why I am not forcing other against the Han (too many mistakes in the last stage of the game . I was bored while searching at max)
A city in Japan flips towards Tokugawa, I wonder why. It is not too important as this city does no control any lux but still.

I am also forced to a defensive war because there is a MPP between Tokugawa & Oda and between Han & Shimazu. I have deals with Shimazu & Oda (there are polite towards me so I do not want to trigger the war, losing some rep), so I maintain an open gate in my maginot line in front of Yongbon in order to be able to kill some Han forces as they enter my territory as seen in the picture below
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24_1290ad.jpg

1290 AD: I enter modern ages without Palace pre-built for the UN (another blunder :mad: ) that will delay my win for at least 21 turns. I know I should pause but now it is too late. With Airports rushed on Japan, I can airlift my forces to Japan…
1315 AD : I make peace with Han, MPP are finished, I am going to plunder Togukawa just for the sake of it. He is #3 now. So I will face Takeda for the vote.
1330 AD: First leader is converted to an army and victorious army just after. This will enables me to build some more wonders for the fun of it :D. I did not have the time to return it and UN was being built.
1380 AD: I have the UN built, I give some techs and some GP and I go for the vote. Strange enough, I am to face the Han. Firaxis score 6035
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24_ranking.jpg

At the beginning of this spoiler I desperately tried to catch up in tech.

I started a prebuild hoping that I would get Fisson as my bonus tech so could beat the Oda to the UN. It was not to be. My bonus tech was Computers instead. Since the Oda were not the #2 civ, I knew there was no way to get a diplo victory. Attacking the Oda (the #3) civ was not an option.

So I went after Miniaturization instead. I used my lamented UN pre-build to build the Internet. As I had not gotten one before that triggered my GA. Too late I passed the Oda to take the tech lead.

Using my GA I cruised to a Space victory in 1720 with a Firaxis score of 4484.

For some reason the Oda, nor anyone else, built any space ship parts.

[ptw] 1.27 Open


As I entered the Modern Age in 1315, I received a great suprise in that when I pressed F6 I had Fission as my free tech! Although, my relative lack of a prebuild hurt me here, and it took me until 1350 to build the UN and call the vote. Once the ballots were counted, I was on the winning side of a 6-4 vote against the Han. That was a bit closer than I prefer, but in the end a win is a win.

On a side note, I got another suprise when I built then UN.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/gotm24II.JPG

Well....better late than never, I guess :lol:

I ended up with a Diplomatic Victory in 1350 AD.
Firaxis score: 5962
Jason score: 7750

In then end this game was great. Kudos to Cracker and the GOTM staff for going above and beyond the call of duty once again.

Open [ptw] 1.27, Medal 6-1

Link to previous post up to Industrial Age: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1300591#post1300591

Right after the declaration {of war at the end of the Industrial age}, Han attacked my weakest cities in the inner core, Puhang, Andong and Wonsan, taking them all in this turn and destroying my FP in Wonsan.

Massive infantry draft followed. Democracy hurts. The research for Flight had to be immediatly halted and then I paid alliances with the Baekje (average military, but far better than mine) and 3 powers in Japan, including the Oda. I also tried to pay the Shimazu, but as can be seen in the above picture, they had a MPP with Han and rejected the deal for any price I offered.

2 turns after the beginning of war, still structuring my infantary defence and having 3 cities taken, the Han arrived with these guys (near Cheju):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/gotm24_foto3.JPG

It was a problem. If they were able to defend the conquered cities with infs, I wouldn't be able to recover then in the short term. I had only infantaries and some guerrilas. So in the same turn I made a huge effort to recover Puhang, Wonsan & Andong and avoid the Han to place infantaries to protect them. The
screenshot above pictures the situation in the end of this turn.

My Baekje allies didn't hold the Han, but were able to give them some extra concern, and then I could notice Han's pace in the invasion was getting weaker and slower. By 1295-1300 they ask for piece (demanding 120g) and I refuse. They had no troops in my territory by then.

But later, in 1325, they bring the toys I was expecting: :tank:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/gotm24_foto4.JPG

Peace with Han. They pay me 180g.

The workers are near the border because the war was over in the end of the turn. The bastard Hans used their ironclads and battleships in a failed attempt to destroy my production in the shore. I built some artillery during the war, which helped a lot to restrain the ironclads in the region.

I got really worried by signing the peace with Han, since I was breaking the 5-sided alliance I signed with those many civs. But I had no option: Peace or tanks.

After that, Han resumed its war with my former allies the Baekje, taking all their cities and eliminating them from the game in 10t. The fear of the Japanese to the Han was so big that they soon forgot the resentfulness about my alliance violation. Also, I did such a big diplomatic lobby throughout the game that made they forget it soon. Phew.

Following the destruction of Baekje, I flipped 4 conquered cities from the Han. The Baekje and Korea were leading the culture in the world, so we were both unable to flip from each other. But Han was culturally weak (although tech and military powerful), so half of their plunder came to my hands in 2 turns.

Resumed research in Flight, and traded for Motorised Transportation with another Japanese clan than the Oda.

1370 - Modern Era. Free Ecology (bleh :vomit: ), Fission in 15t. Pusan started pre-building its Palace. I didn't want Seoul since I could micro-manage to increase production in Pusan and still pre-build the Palace there, giving superior performance.

1400 - Evil Han started building UN. And Fission still 6t away from me. That scared me. AI in Emperor has faster production. And if Han had the actual Industrious strength of China, it was very risky. If anybody but me gets the UN I'm out of the election, since I'm not the 2nd eligible civ.

1430 - Fission. Swap Pusan to UN, 6t to finish. Would it be enough? Spy Han's performance... 18t to UN... HAHAHA! Cool.[dance]

Then I made a move intending to guarantee the Diplo Victory once and for all. Sold Fission away to everybody in Japan. To 2 clans, gave it for free (they were poor bastards).

But soon after that, I realised that I created a new risk! Some clans were still in war with each other. If somebody gets a leader, they would get the UN immediately and destroy my hard-earned game then.

Fourtunately that didn't happen and in 1460 I got Diplomatic Victory. Results:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/gotm24_foto5.JPG

Han only got their own vote. Their ROP-rape over me doomed their diplomacy forever.

Firaxis 4032, Jason 6232.
Not a great score, since I didn't occupy much territory.

Some observations:

1. If Han hadn't betrayed me, the victory would have came at least 10-15t before, maybe in the early 1300's. I had to reduce the research to Flight during the short-lived war which seriously threatned my existence.

2. I was blackmailed only once in the whole game. Actually twice, in the turn I built the UN (before election) a gracious Japanese clan demanded me coal, which I gave.

3. It would have been a good deal having early wars for expansion. A second core would have helped, no doubt. My lack of experience in diplomatic victory made me avoid wars that shouldn't be avoided. :D

4. I got surprised with the low base date for Diplo Victory in the Jason Score Calculator. 790ad?? Even in Predator, Diplo before 1000ad would be indeed a great game!

Sorry for the long post, but the game was a very different experience for me (a milking warmonger) and I wanted to share it with the friends from CFC.:thumbsup:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/ptw.gif 1.27f
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Predator

Link to my Ancient Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1275209#post1275209)

Link to my Middle Ages Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1285759#post1285759)

Link to my Industrial Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1297291#post1297291)

Waiting for the United Nations

I left off the last thread in 1150AD, after getting Mass Production. As I mentioned, I didn’t build any military units after upgrading my infantry, at this point I was just speeding through the tech tree at 1 tech/4 turns. It was close, as Radio kept showing up as a 5 or 6 turn tech when I would go to choose the next tech, so I put it off to last. Meanwhile, I started rushing Commercial Docks in my larger coastal cities, to boost their income. When Radio came around, I was still able to get it at 4 turns, with 100% science. When I finally hit the Modern Age (getting Radio in 1230), I got Rocketry for my free tech (oh, well, Fission would have been nice!), and started on Fission in 6 turns at 100%. I had to pull about half my laborers in Kangyang, where I was prebuilding, as otherwise the Palace would be complete in only 3 turns. I continued renewing trades and ROPs, even if they didn’t have much to give. I also followed (I think it was Qitai’s suggestion) and if they were broke, I would gift them several hundred gold, then sell them the luxuries. Anyway, in 1270 I completed Fission, looked at the Big Picture, switched to the UN, and …

We Have A Winner!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/JustusII_G24_Vote.jpg

Final Score: 6732, Jason Score: 8532

This was a great game, my first diplomatic win (I usually build the UN just so the AI can’t call a vote). I am more of a builder type, but I have never had to work so hard to keep my reputation clean. Many thanks to Bamspeedy’s article on AI attitudes. It was especially frustrating trying not to autoraze early. If I were to do it over, I probably would have made more of an effort to finish off my neighbors before making contact. I had considered building the Great Lighthouse, but got too wrapped up in trying to capture the Pyramids and let it slip away. I also thought the Han would get it and I could steal it from them. With that, I could have managed contacts and kept the Japanese from meeting my neighbors until, well until there was no one left to meet. Short of that, I should have built some Junks and put some patrols on the edges of the coastal waters, where I would have had a better chance of making first contact. A third mistake was when I finally did go to finish off the Baejke’s last two cities. After taking their capital, I assumed the new capital would not autoraze, but I should have let it grow culture for at least 10 turns I guess. As it was, that was my only autoraze, so it didn’t hurt too bad.

I loved the Korean names/units/etc., and the Japanese islands gave the game a real historical feel. I would have liked to get more involved in the interaction between the various Japanese clans, but I was afraid of making a diplomatic mistake, so I tried to stay out of it. I may play this one again, taking a more “active” role in Japanese politics, and landing on the islands. I never got to see any of their units, except for a couple they were building when I established embassies. In that respect, this game still has quite a bit of replay value. I also think this map was almost designed for a palace jump, and would like to try that if I replay it also, it is just hard for me to part with my original home (Sentimental value!). Thanks again, Cracker and Staff!! :goodjob:

Originally posted by Justus II
... I would have liked to get more involved in the interaction between the various Japanese clans, but I was afraid of making a diplomatic mistake, so I tried to stay out of it. I may play this one again, taking a more “active” role in Japanese politics, and landing on the islands. I never got to see any of their units, except for a couple they were building when I established embassies. In that respect, this game still has quite a bit of replay value. I also think this map was almost designed for a palace jump, and would like to try that if I replay it also...
Hopefully this is not too transparent of a design objective. This game is designed to give you lots of replay options and there are still a number of hidden features that you may not have discovered within the confines of "trying to play nice".

What I had hoped for here was to reveal a surprising and enjoyable game that then would still have enough interesting content that would let you want to replay it two or three times with your friends just to share the experience and pursue some new challenges. Just try to invade Japan without reaching a similar conclusion that Truman and his advisors reached. ;)

We have missed you during your hiatus and it is good to have you return to play an provide your observations and share your game experience.

Many of you know that I often play these games in 10 to 15 different ways before they are released to you. I rarely play fully to a victory, but this is one game that I am still playing in the background for enjopyment even though I am already knee deep in testing Gotm25 and Gotm26.

ptw open

Well, we left of entering the IA in 980 AD still in depotism (stupid mistake) and at war with the Evil Han. I rushed production at the cost of many lives and revolted to Monarchy (6 turns). Lost a lot of former Bajeke cities to the Han before peace was delared and we revolted to Democracy.

1030 AD Democracy is born. Will focus on research and rebuilding an army

1630 we hear Oda completed something called the United Nations - but never hear what it was supposedly constructed for. (Maybe they were using it to inspire their population in their wars with their neighbors to make a "United Nation" on their continent)

1725 Evil Han declare war on us again

1750 Oda dow on Korea

1752 Chosogabe Dow on Korea 2ndary to mmp

1754 Takeda dow on Korea

1758 Our democracy is overthrown ( only have 2 cities left at this time)

1762 The evil Han have wiped Korea from the map (As a side note, Korea got their 2nd great leader from our final stand during this turn and was killed before being able to do anything)

Korea score: 1262

Originally posted by tao
[B]:confused: Changing to democracy increases war weariness compared to republic. Also the Han-war-induced ww stopped the turn after you made peace with them.


True, but I was still in a war. I could either just raise the luxury rate, make some entertainers or endure ww. All three would have crippled some part of my production (luxury rate - lower income, lower research; entertainers - cities starving, lower production). Since I wanted to change to Democracy anyway, this seemed the best time. I knew that I could finish the war before Democracy started, pink had only two cities left. When Democracy started I was already at peace with everyone.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif PTW1.27
Spoiler 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1302673#post1302673)

tao,
You seem to have beaten me by one turn. That's OK, I can't blame it on bad luck. But perhaps I should not have stayed in Monarchy right up to the end, even with 100% research.

Recap
I eliminated Baekje, Goguryeo and Mori before they had riflemen. But Oda, Tokugawa, Shimazu and Takeda had them by then and would get Infantry. Kuroda was very weak (I learned later that they had been inches from elimination by Mori in the ancient age).
2-3 Japaneses civs were at war with Han ever since the middle ages, fighting endlessly over the ex-"Barb Island."

Diplomacy
So I decided to combine MPPs with alliances against Han. In the early 1100s I got to work on Han, capturing half the cities. This was enough to get everyone up to gracious. I also gave away all kinds of resources, luxuries and techs.

Moden age
I had a leader saved for UN, and a prebuild in the ironworks city in case I would get Computers. And I did. But when I was five turns from Fission Takeda decided that they wanted to land troups by an undefended city in the ex-Mori area and declare war. During this last war they were only "Annoyed" but there was no time to make peace and butter them up. So I lost their vote, and Han's of course, and Shimazu's. But the others knew what was best for them. Call me Kofi.

Summary
The Japanese civs were annoyed with me for the most part in this game. This clearly shows that it doesn't matter what happens 50 turns before the vote, when Wang Kon's irresistable charm sets in.

I learned that I must remember not to have undefended cities if I don't want to go to war.

I should also have been quicker in capturing The Great Lighthouse. I had set my troups up for a Right of Passage violation and checked Goguryeos World Map only to see that they had landed in "Japan." So then I had to retreat and wait for the ROP to expire. The game would have looked completely different if the other Korean civs hadn't made contact.

The map was very challenging and neat. I enjoyed the graphics, including the (talking) flags.

Last Minimap, 1260 AD

[ptw] 1.27f OPEN

Continuing from my previous (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1303317#post1303317) post.

1040AD Motorized Transport, have to start flight. Pull citizens off all shield tiles to slow down palace.

1050AD Hmm, wasn't thinking, after starving for one turn, governor put the people back to work. I'm going to have to take drastic measures to slow down the palace. Pillage all the mines in the palace city. Move 3 workers to each hill to road and then rail and be ready to mine if we get lucky enough to get Fission free.

1080AD One turn to Flight and Modern Ages, Rails are in place on the hills and I have a bunch of workers waiting to mine if needed.

1090AD Takeda attacks Tokugawa!! The very first war on other continent (since I've known them). Flight done, get Rocketry! BLAH! Fission is 7 turns away! Oh man this is not good. I'm only 3 turns from palace and since I can only starve 1 citizen per turn I'm in deep doo-doo. Rush a couple settlers to plant nearby and steal some shield tiles. Notice that other civs have flight so they got it the same turn I did. Big help. :rolleyes:

1100AD Settle 2 cities and take 2 shield tiles. Rush 2 more settlers just in case.

1110AD Settle 2 more cities and steal 2 more shield tiles. THEN it dawns on me. I could have slowed things by half if I would have just sold the factory!! Sell it now to make sure.

1120AD Ok, palace is up to 6 turns, Fission in 4, will be no problem to add enough shields when it's down to 1.

1150AD One turn to Fission, destroy 2 of the cities I placed and mine the coal bringing palace down to 1 turn.

1160AD Fission, big picture, switch palace to UN, hold vote, and win a landslide 8-1 over Han for a Firaxis score of 6819.


So, I like how fast I did this, but still think it could have been faster. I need to figure out how to direct AI research better. I tried to steer them but it seems they either didn't do what I wanted or they were just too darn slow. May have to make the leap to Predator to combat this.

I also need to get the two cores further apart. Palace and FP 3 tiles apart was about the same as no FP.

Should have started free gifting (instead of selling for gold) earlier to increase AI research rate.

Should have started UN prebuild later. I was really sweating at the end.

I didn't really mention it much throughout the posts, but I was building mostly defensive units with a handful of cities to make sure my military stayed average with respect to Han. I didn't want any more wars, just peaceful, fast tech pace.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifMac 1.29

Ancient Age Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1280298#post1280298)

Middle Ages Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1284368#post1284368)

I skipped spoiler 3 because there was no difference in my game before and after mass production. The industrial age dawned with Korea at war with the last remaining continental civ, the Han. My 18 medieval infantry, steadily backed by more knights, encountered first pikemen and then musketmen, augmented by medieval infantry, longbowmen and riders. At first I thought I had bitten off much more than I could chew, but after several turns, the Han's productiuon back was broken. (Isn't that always a great realization?) In the end, I finished them off with cavalry, after acquiring military tradition in a trade with the other continent.

And what did the other continent think of my having broken a RoP treaty in invading the Han? I had hoped to polish them off by navigation, but I didn't come close. Fortunately, Plan B kicked in. I had sold all of the Japanese civs my maps shortly after first meeting them. And all of the usable land on my continent was taken. As a result, the AI ships never sailed up to the shores of the Han, even though they were occasionally a tile away from contact. And so - according to a rather tentative plan - my reputation remained unblemished with the potential UN voters until the end of the game.

It took me five turns to research electricity, but every other industrial tech was learned in the minimum of four turns. After total separate-branch cooperation from Japan throughout the Middle Ages, I expected some help in this era, despite expected detours with communism, espionage, and secondary medieval techs like free artistry. I gifted each Japanese civ just as I had since meeting them - I took what gpt was available, but everyone advanced the same turn I did. And what did I get? Industrialization and sanitation. This surprised me, and after a while I quit charging them gpt, but it didn't help. They were researching at a much slower rate than me.

The game's conclusion had a mildly comical twist. I had just settled the barb island, strictly for entertainment purposes. One of the few Japanese civs who still owed me gpt landed a single cav, and attacked my infantry on the game's penultimate turn. I had saved a Leader from the Han War to rush the UN, and did so in 1080 - one turn slower than if I had prebuilt the palace and used the Big Picture screen. The UN vote in 1090 was six for me and two for my new enemy.

What worked best for for me in this game was setting up the two palaces so that the entire continent was evenly covered, and gifting the AI with tech from late in the Ancient Age. (Perhaps as a result of the even gifting, the Japanese civs never warred from the point that I met them.) My entry into the Middle Ages was mediocre, due to the Baekje having been crippled from the start by me, and the fact the Japanese civs were far behind me when I met them. Knowing now that the AI research would slow in the industrial era, it may have been worth my while to quit taking gpt earlier... but I did need it for a while. Finally, I wasted four turns researching music theory, especially since I was beaten to Bach's!

Originally posted by Txurce
I had saved a Leader from the Han War to rush the UN, and did so in 1080 - one turn slower than if I had prebuilt the palace and used the Big Picture screen.
It needn't be so. At least with PC-PTW1.27 there is a trick: Place the leader in one of your most recently built cities and fortify it. Then when you learn the required tech, get a city window opened via the big picture screen or through the completion of a build order in one of your older cities. Scroll to the city where you stored the leader. Change the build order to the thing you want to hurry. Right-click and activate the leader. Exit the city windows and while the computer deals with the build orders of your cities you will see the build army button and the hurry production button at the bottom of the screen. They are pressable. Just press before the computer has dealt with the build order for the town storing the leader and don't press the wrong button.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif [civ3]

It looks like I’m one of the few who did not go for Diplomatic victory . . . I’m such a warmonger.

Following Qitai suggestions, I was able to build the 4-turn warrior-settler combo factory and both my army and my territory grew quickly. At 1000BC I had 14 cities, 34 citizens, 23 warrior and 3 Bushi.

Korea became a Monarchy in 900BC. I build the Great Lighthouse in 610BC. In 230BC I built the Great Library and my GA started.

I did not dare to launch suicide galleys until I got the lighthouse, therefore I found the other island only in 550BC.

In 730BC I started an uninterrupted sequence of war by declaring war to Gogu. War against Baekje and Han followed. In 130BC the native island was united under the flag of Korea.

Great Library made me progress without cost, but in 170BC (after GL had given me Engineering) I started researching on my own and I got Samurai Code in 30BC.

I did not upgrade immediately. I waited for Invention (90AD) to build Leonardo Workshop with my 2nd Great Leader (the first was used for the FP) and saved a lot of gold in the upgrade of my Horsemen to Knights.

In 150AD the first 5 junks leaved Maokp'o to the new land. Shimazu were selected as the first victim and in 230AD I declared war on them. In 350AD I attacked Mori, in 460AD Kuroda.
In 530AD I discovered Military Tradition and upgrade my Knights to Chivalry.
In 630AD I attacked Kuroda, 720AD Toku, and Takeda in 840AD.
In the meanwhile I used other 3 GL to build JSB, Smith and Magellan.

Korea dominated the world in 850AD.

Megalou: thanks for ther tip. I'll go back to a save and see if it work on 1.29.

MarkCutt: very swift conquests. You may end up with the top score!

Originally posted by Xevious
... Fission is 7 turns away! Oh man this is not good. I'm only 3 turns from palace ...
Could not you just put most of your citizens not to work thus reducing the number of shields per turns?
Entertainers / taxmen or scientits ...

in the gotm event, there are participating a lot of excellent civ-players and usually they are presenting their truly impressive in-game results here.

i want to tell not about how good i played gotm24, but how "bad" i was, were my flaws were located and what i think i've learned. i want to post in the name of - let's say - the "rank 100+"-players of gotm.

after building a moderate korean empire that was formed out of three ancient tribes i lost the tech race and the han won a diplomatic victory.

i didn't post in the 3rd spoiler thread because i lost the game about 20 turns after reaching the conditions to participate, so i didn't see the point in boasting my achievements in the industrial age when i already knew i lost the game anyway.

"to play at least one good game in a month" - somewhere here, this is stated as a reason to play a gotm, and indeed, it is. the game was thoughtfully set up, and a lot of details - rivals, resources locations, barbarians - are arranged in a manner that makes sense, instead of being spilled over the map randomly, like in standard games.

however, emperor is a little bit too tough for me yet. i got the notion i am thinking to slow for the pace of an emperor game. but for now, my result is o.k. for me because i made it to the top three of my in-game score, and that means i accomplished three of four conditions on the way to win games at high difficulty:
1. don't be conquered,
2. don't be last,
3. be in the top3,
4. win a game.
(don't know where i read this, it was somewhere here in the forums.)

here's my analysis of why i lost the game:
1. i came too late to a couple of important in-game events. first of all, the civs of the starting landmass won the race to japan. additionally, there were some lags in tech research, e.g. entered middle ages too late. i hopelessly fall behind in tech during the medieval age. i was able to catch up because the baekje luckily build the great library next to my borders.
same with industrial age: too late again so i could not make valuable deals with medicine, that i got for free due to the scientfic trait. no easy possibility to catch up this time.
2. haven't attacked the han. even a limited, defensive war could have been useful and would have used up a part of their ressourses for a period of time. considering the meagre warfare abilities of the ai, conquering one or two cities might have been possible though they were a strong rival.
3. in the endgame, after the han builded the u.n. i would not take part in an election, because the takeda were the biggest civ around. i tried to weaken them by making them declare war on me and dragging serveral other civs into the conflict. but the process of takeda's decline was way too slow and this opened the way for the han to invoke the election because takeda's reputation was ruined but they were still no.1 in population and no.2 in territory. it would have needed much more time to make me no.2 and takeda no.3 (as far as i understand the u.n. elections).

no reasons to loose, but some bad luck for me: never got a single leader. i was saving elites for easy battles etc. but no luck with that.
the han got a industrial golden age with universal suffrage + hoover dam, they produced tanks when i was upgrading my musketmen.

things that i could have done better:
- i should not only think about the next step, but think ahead to the 2nd and 3rd step: what will i be able to do when i accomplish the goal i am working on now? i should try to reflect these possibilities in my present decisions.
- planning ahead in city placement and tech research is not enough. it seems useful, for example, to make a reasonable "wonder wishlist" and work out ways to gain those wonders and start pre-builds early.

I did many of your mistakes too, bluebox.

My biggest regret in the game was not having pre-emptive wars against the peninsula civs, especially the Han. I risked myself by letting the Han grow, which was really a mistake of mine.

I should have built a 2nd core. In Civ, I normally get a 4-turn pace for techs from Industrialisation onwards, but this time I was getting them in 8-10 turns, even with 90-100% science.

That's why I got so astonished when I won my game, even with my date relatively late compared to other players. My experience in Diplomatic Victory was almost nil, and I'm happy to say I learned a lot about diplomacy in this game.

And also I saw that I'm still not prepared to go Predator. :D

Good luck in your next game, man. :thumbsup:

blue-box,

There are some excellent players, and then there are the likes of me: happy to win on emperor/deity at all. The most useful tip I've found is to use mass upgrade. Don't hook up your resources until you have a bunch of warriors, chariots or horsemen to upgrade. If you have lots of cash but poor production you might even want to consider pillaging your own resources and go back to making warriors instead of swordsmen (or horsemen instead of knights).

There are at least two basic ways to get lots of cash:
1) Don't research more than you need to. Once you've conquered a civ they can give you techs in exchange for your kindness. This is the method most of the top players seem to prefer.
2) Build the great library and switch research to zero. The problem with this is that it takes a while to reach literature. But it is easier to plan than number 1. Just start building early and don't give literature away to the other civs, because they will change their build orders from Great Lighthouse when somebody finishes it. Chop some forest and get extra shields, it's healthy exercise.

Again, I am not a top player, and I would recommend reading the posts of e.g. SirPleb, who gives lots of details and explanations.

Originally posted by Megalou
[Chop some forest and get extra shields, it's healthy exercise.And only that. ;) You can't chop to accellerate Wonders. Once you chopped while building unit/improvement, you can't switch to Wonder. Same is true for disband gains.

Bluebox,

Excellent learning points, that is one of the beautiful things about the GOTM, you can learn from your own mistakes (sometimes painful as they are). Someone once said "Experience comes from learning from your mistakes, Wisdom is learning from someone else's mistakes!" Anyway, I have learned tremendously through the GOTM process. The biggest mindset change for me at Emporer/Diety is to realize that the AI will outresearch you for the first two ages, so don't even try to keep up, it is a waste of money. It is cheaper to buy techs on credit (gpt deals) after they trade it around. If you can, wait until two techs are out, but not all the AI have both yet, then you can buy one for gpt, then trade it to one of the slower AI for the other tech, getting two for the price of one. This will at least keep you relatively current.

Prior post here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1308012#post1308012


At the end of the IA my Golden Age had just ended. I had been gifting techs in the hope that some other civs would research some techs for me. I finally got Mass Production from Han in 1310.

In 1355 I entered the Modern Age and wanted Fission (of course), but got Ecology. I was almost ready with a UN prebuild, but now it had to wait for me to discover Fission. Even though I had been researching at 4 turns, Fission required 8. Finally, in 1395 I got it and built the UN 2 turns later.

Since I had gifted so many techs during the Industrial Age the voting was no contest. I won 5 - 2 with one abstention.

One amusing thing that happened was that when the vote came up it was between Wang Kon and Nobunaga San. I had not been paying any attention to the names of the other leaders during the entire game. Therefore, I didn't know which one was me!! I had to choose right then as I couldn't leave that screen. Fortunately, I had been keeping a log and could Alt-Tab to the desktop. I went to the CivFanatics site and read through the Spoilers until I came upon someone who was telling the story of the Great Wang Kon. In that way I was able to discover my identity and vote for the good guy.

I made no effort during the game to go to war with any of the civs on the other continent. A few of them declared war on me, but only 3 enemy units ever made it to my territory during the entire game. As a matter of fact, I did not build any naval units after my second Galley made contact with the other continent.

A great job cracker. Very entertaining. I now intend to go back and replay with the goal of invading the civs on the other continent.

lol zagnut. I did the same thing. :D

I remembered who I was, thankfully, but had forgotten who a couple of my opponents were (Except Wu-Ti of the Han, who had been furious at me for the past millenia or so, so I remembered him!!). I had to double check after the vote to see who was #2, since I thought it would be close between Tokugawa and Takeda (it was Takeda).

Civ1.29f Conquest - Diplomatic Victory in 1395AD, Firaxis score 5500

lol - So I'm not the only one to forget my own name! However I did not alt-tab...it was quite a thrilling gimmick at the very end of the end-game rush, but I guessed - I guessed the first on the list would be somewhat more probable, and I guessed right :D
Han btw were quite polite to me during the last couple of centuries (after offering them some tech bargains), and maybe even voted for me. Takeda was the only nation annoyed with Korea, probably still side effects of their senseless early IA "tribute force" war.

Other than that, our last centuries were quite the same as zagnut's. We kept the lead on the tech tree with 1-2 techs, continiously got a tremendous amount of gpts (about 1k) from the other civs, and never bothered with building ships or even offensive forces since eliminating Gogoryu in the MA.
Around 1350-1375 we finally *could* have started building up a huge military and crush Han - but hey - a diplomatic victory at the earliest date possible is a diplomatic victory at the earliest date possible; and not any kind of milking nonsense :rolleyes: .

Overall impression:
Great game. Especially I appreciated the much earlier than expected victory, which was mainly due to the >>Korean Commercial Overkill<<, originating in the combination of an early IA GA and the scientific trait exploited at the right time.
The downside of this was a, well, perhaps a bit too short and boring IA, and of course I never used (or even saw) some of the new units.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif[ptw] 1.21f
Industrial Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1310317#post1310317)

Left off the Industrial Age discussion in 1210AD when TOE was built and we jumped to RADIO tech and traded for everything the AI had. At this stage the AI was trading around 500GPT for all our tech / commomdity trades, as the game progressed this just got better. 4 turn research was assured.

The game continued in the same vain, the AI did research one more useful tech, but that was it. Oda soon became the main threat and looked to be No.2, so did consider war and alliances but held off hoping for perfect rep. When Oda came with idle threats for techs, they were rudely rebuffed, and their threats were without doubt idle and no war occured.

Han was a good boy and just traded all game, no wars.

Big UN pre-build started, Fission one turn from research. Signed MPP, and ROP with all civs, even Oda, gave all Civs 1000GP, techs, resources, maps, everything.

AD 1395, Diplomatic Victory (8 to 1), Firaxis score 5412

Game ended with perfect rep, three wars started but with honour, no trades broken, no deals broken, no alliances broken, no ROP rape, no nothing. First time ever, perfect rep, should get a bonus star for that.

Great game, great map, first predator game no problem, bring on Medal Game 6-2. That is what I wrote in my notes, without spoiling 6-2 I did live to regret that comment, from Predator to chump in the space of a few days.

Smackster

I haven't seen this discussed or mentioned yet, so I thought I would discuss my interpretation of Cracker's "Pregame Wisdom." This was added to another post without any fanfare in an earlier thread, and at first I wasn't even sure if it was intentional, but I don't think Cracker does anything unintentionally ;)

Cracker's Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1270478#post1270478)

Lock up the monkey and ape so they cannot run away.
Tame the wild horse so that it cannot get out of control.
Grasp the opening of the Gate and when cultivation is complete,
The beam of golden light will penetrate your entire being.


I assumed it to be some sort of reference to this month's game, but wasn't sure how to interpret it or if it would become part of a "puzzle". I also probably took it a little too literally, trying to look up the Korean words for Monkey, Ape, Horse, etc., but by the time I got going into the game, I realized the civ names were historical Korean groups. However, here was my interpretation of it:

Lock up the monkey and ape so they cannot run away:
I assumed this meant the Baejke and Goguryeo, and that we needed to keep them from expanding too much.

Tame the wild horse so that it cannot get out of control:
I alternately thought this was the Han or the Barbarians. I thought maybe horse was some reference to China. However, I finally settled on it refering to the barbarians, especially after the Uprising, when Wild Horses were out of control on Barb Island!!

Grasp the opening of the Gate and when cultivation is complete,
I assumed this referred to some type of land bridge, and explored everywhere to find it. Eventually, I interpreted it to mean the mountain passes between myself and the Han, so I build a couple cities and fortified troops there to hold them back, until "cultivation", my improvements in my core areas, was complete.

The beam of golden light will penetrate your entire being.
Not sure on this one, just assumed it would be good fortune, winning the game.

In hindsight, I could have interpreted it somewhat differently, and applied it to the strategy several other people used sucessfully. If we still assume the monkey and the ape are the first two tribes, and strive to keep them from running away (to another land mass...), tame the Wild Horse (Han) to keep them managable, grab the opening of the Gate of Communications (i.e. Lighthouse, or suicide junks) while we Cultivate Contacts, and then the Golden Light of technology will flood over us.

Anyway, that is my interpretation, but I could also be way off base. It didn't really affect my strategy so much as confirmed it, but was an interesting bit of atmosphere (the wisdom of Confucious, or just confusing???). And if it was just a random quote, then I guess I went overboard!!!

Originally posted by Justus II
... so I thought I would discuss my interpretation of Cracker's "Pregame Wisdom."

Cracker's Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1270478#post1270478)

... was an interesting bit of atmosphere (the wisdom of Confucious, or just confusing???). And if it was just a random quote, then I guess I went overboard!!!
And here I thought the more subtle aspects of including a few of these quotes might have passed by the masses unnoticed.

"Even if only one is reached, the effort shall not have been in vain"

Spoiler 1 Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1290373#post1290373)

Not much of note happened after my spoiler 1 post. I figured I was dead but played a few turns trying to stick it out. I was concentraing no infrastructure and culture to fight against Baekje's culture which was taking 3 tiles from my capitol! I was making lots of money and payed an enormous sum of money, gpt and tech for contacts and the world map after the first Japanese junk appeared off my northern shore. Unfortunately my fellow continentals saw them and traded the contacts around just before I got them.

Shortly after I obtained the gunpowder tech but had no saltpeter. I gave up then. I might have been able to go for diplomatic victory or possibly even make a dent in Baekje eventually, but I didn't have the experience or patience for it.

I couldn't submit a retired game, so I disbanded all cities and units that I could (for some reason the eqWorker wouldn't disband, and I couldn't abandon my capitol) and declared war on everyone. It took about 3 turns for Han D and Baekje to show up by my undefended captiol, and Han D's turn was first in the rotation and I lost by conquest after ending my turn in 660AD.

I didn't expand quickly enough early enough, and I didn't irrigate the wools because I didn't think it would help in despotism. Found out later I was wrong. D'oh! I also had some really bad luck as my iron source depleted in 975 BC as I was building up for another offensive on Baekje! At the time I assumed it was programmed that way by Cracker to happen just after the QSC submittal for a nasty twist, but as far as I've read I'm the only one it happened to. Baekje's culture and Bushi, and Han D's total takeover of the Gogury was too much power for me to go up against.

I did learn a lot, though, and it's already showing up in other solo games and my SG.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27

Link to spoiler1, Ancient Times (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1301965#post1301965)
Link to spoiler2, Metallurgy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1312643#post1312643)
Link to spoiler3, Mass Production (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1312647#post1312647)

It was a short hop for me from Mass Production to the end of the game.

I'd delayed building Theory Of Evolution because:
1) I wanted to give my rivals as much time as possible to work on one research path while I worked on another.
2) I'd decided to take Fission as one of my free techs from ToE. Although I'd maintained four turn research for quite a while, I would not be able to research Fission that easily. It would certainly need at least five turns and probably would need six. So I had a choice. I could gamble on getting Fission as my free tech for Modern Times, but if the gamble didn't work then I'd use six turns to learn Fission the hard way. Or I could save ToE to get Fission for free, but lose the chance of gaining four turns if Fission was my free tech. With just a one in four chance of getting Fission as the free tech I'd rather not risk the downside, I'd rather use ToE to get it.

So after learning Mass Production in 790AD I had just one tech to be researched - Motorized Transportation.

I had prebuilds for both the UN and Theory of Evolution started long before this, timed to finish in 830AD. If I hadn't been able to trade for Combustion then of course I'd have slowed these down to hit a later date as necessary. I didn't save a leader for either of these because they were easy enough to time - instead I used a couple of leaders earlier on to rush Universal Suffrage and Magellan's, eliminating all pending wonder builds and allowing me to trade Scientific Method without worrying about cascades. My Theory of Evolution build was in a city which came before my UN prebuild city in the game's internal sequence so that I could finish both in the same turn.

In 820AD I declared war on Tokugawa (guessing them to be my largest rival though it wasn't critical), allied everyone else against them, and showered my other rivals with gifts. They were all gracious.

In 830AD I learned Motorized Transportation, finished Theory of Evolution, used it to learn Flight and Fission (got Ecology as my free tech), finished the UN, and held the vote.

It turned out that Shimazu were my rivals in the voting so Tokugawa abstained and in 830AD I won a diplomatic victory by a vote of five to one :)

SirPleb:

830AD?!? :worship:
I am most impressed with your victory, SirPlebSan.
But I also appreciate your description. I thought I had taken a step forward (for me, anyway) and try to get the AI to research some of the optional techs for me during the IA. I have even tried to concentrate on one branch, hoping they will pick up techs on the other, but I have a way to go to plan for and "guide" their research as you did. Especially during the middle ages, I set myself behind by counting on a leader for the FP, and so took forever to get my second core up, and ended up buying tech through the middle ages, not leading it. I have looked at the "What will the AI research" article, but usually just as a way to select the tech they are least likely to go for, when I want trade value. I have much to learn!

I have a couple of questions on another aspect of your game, the "slow warfare". I tend to fight short, quick wars targeted on a specific objective, then take my 20 turns to build up for the next one. From your description, yours was a much more gradual approach, although "slow" in relation to your research timeline might be misleading. My questions are: How do you handle War Weariness, being in Republic the whole time? I can usually count on luxuries and the slider for 10-15 turns, but then it gets too expensive. Second, do you try to go after cities first, or draw his forces out against your defenders and then go on the offensive? I have often thought that would be a better strategy, particularily for MA and IA warfare, but because I am trying to fight quick wars, I go after his cities pretty quickly.

SirPlebsan,

It is a wise man who calms the waters regardless or whether he chooses to walk through, around, or on the glass-like surface or the pond. ;)


830 AD is most impressive.

Do you have a reading of your domination percentage?

Very nice gameplay, SirPleb. :thumbsup:

And to think that I was avoiding wars afraid of losing the Diplo victory. :rolleyes:

I've never seen somebody to get Fission with ToE. You must have had a very confortable tech lead.

This was a unique experience for me, so I will give you an insight into the storyline in my head while playing the game. Given enough time I could have turned it into a full tale but unfortunately Civ story writing does no pay rent.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif[ptw] 1.27f

The short story of Wong Yndy Zen.

Wong Yndy Zen was the ruler of the Koreans, a warmongering king that wanted to lead his people to the diplomatic domination of the world. He never looked at the Gogury and Baejke tribes as more than weaker related people. In four successive wars the two were integrated in the mainstream Korean Culture but independent city-states would remain on the Cheju (Barb) Island. The Forbidden Palace was build in the center of the lands of the three tribes to testify their unification.

The Han were malicious tribes non-related to the Koreans. In the first phase, Wong Yndy Zen took three of their cities their luxuries. But later a vision told him that the Korean Peninsula was given by the gods to Korea only and that the Han had to perish. So, Wong Yndy Zen broke the 9 turns-old peace treaty and invaded the Han with its newly developed Cavalry that was no match for the Chinese Riders. Several years later another vision told WYZ that a hero will build a new Korean Palace in Shanghai and the king then moved to his new residence the very next day.

New tribes were met when a junk was taken by a typhoon and thrown on the coast of Japan. The Japanese were proud people that mocked the Koreans for their love of ducks. The Shimazu, Kuroda and Takeda tribes suggested that WYZ had more than affection for the harmless bird. WYZ declared war to them and ignored the fact that the other Japanese tribes were joking about Koreans. Instead he took their money and traded techs with them. He also made Military alliances and set the lands of Japan into an endless war.

Soon after the demise of the Han, waves of Cavalries landed on the shores of the Kyushu (Shimazu) Island and slaughtered the Oda Harquebusiers defending the cities. Shimazu were never defeated thanks to their impenetrable fortress build on one of the neighboring islands. The Koreans never though of the possibility of employing Marine Infantry to take it down. The Shimazu resistance remained a significant force in the region and deposed the Korean Governors six times. Each time Korea broke the existing peace treaties and re-conquered those cities.

Next was the Shikoku Island inhabited by the backward Chosogabe. They were no match for the Korean armies but treacherous waters made transfer of units slow. Finally, it was time for WYZ to set foot on the Honshu Island, the largest of all. Japanese Cavalries landed in the North and the South of the Mori state and obliterated the defenses. Again, two Mori cities located elsewhere in Japan were spared. Kuroda were no more since the Oda – Mori alliance overtook their lands.

While the new Industrial Age was blossoming in Korea, the Oda, Togukawa and Takeda developed a new concept: Nationalism. Nationalism meant for them that all people were taught in school about the Korean duck stories. The insult was too much and the Cavalries charged again towards the Oda and Togukawa. This time the advance took painfully long preparations. But in the end the Oda were reduced to one island city and another town in the far south.

With the development of Tank warfare, Togukawa and Taked were soon to be completely wiped out but then WYZ had his last vision of a diplomatic domination. Would it be possible that the remaining small civilizations recognize the leadership of the Korean president?

After a round of multi-party negotiations where Korea made lots of compromises in exchange for military alliances against the evil Takeda it became clear that the remaining independent states were all furious on Wong Yndy Zen and would never vote for him. The following turn, a breakthrough in Computers technology showed that a United Nations project was at least six turns away.

‘Well if you don’t want to vote for me, than you have no use for Korea. A state of War is declared with each of you.’ was the official closing of Wong Yndy Zen at the Beijing Peace Summit. The construction project underway there was changed to an agency in-charge with the Search of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence.

In 1255AD the military dominance of Korea was proclaimed with only 6 independent cities remaining. Togukawa and Mori were wiped out in the last years of the war.

Wong Yndy Zen had one last dream. It was about something he had learned in school about scoring according to Jason and Firaxis International Standards. The vision shattered with a weird message “ERROR! Missing Pediacons *?@ Korea ?%& Happy $%#”

The Game will now exit

Sir Pleb, I once told Qitai how strange rabbits he pulled from his hat. But this rabbit is a new, an alien one.

A gamble worth praise and wonder, and to that the unreal IDEA of holding off the ToE. I bow before you, without bending over :)

Now I have to go and do Harakiri.."Where is my rusty katana again?"

Btw, as if anyone would be interested...I got my Predator-win in 1120AD..I think I just go back to conquest and try to learn the game all over again.

Originally posted by gozpel
Sir Pleb, I once told Qitai how strange rabbits he pulled from his hat. But this rabbit is a new, an alien one.

A gamble worth praise and wonder, and to that the unreal IDEA of holding off the ToE. I bow before you, without bending over :)

This is not a new tactic - it has been used by several players going for a diplomatic win in recent GOTMs. What is impressive about how SirPleb used it is that he was simultaneously gifting the AI with tech, so he could have been beaten out for the ToE. This is why I didn't go for it. (As it turns out, I researched fission in four turns anyway.)

SirPleb also did an excellent job manipulating the AI into researching two relevant industrial techs for him. However, he did not achieve an 830 AD win largely on the strength of his industrial-era tech rate. I think the key period in his game was the late Ancient and Middle Ages. SirPleb reached the industrial era in 210 AD, and by then he was coasting to his amazing finish. From what I can discern, he did it with early, sustained expansion, leaving the faster AI researchers with gpt, and taking gifting up a notch by having a strong sense of what the AI would research next.

Txurce said: This is not a new tactic.

Oh well, I read alot and I never saw it before, but I'm only a few months old, so for me it is an amazing idea.

You beat me too, Txurce....without any tricks.

This is probably the best I can do without exploiting the AI to the fullest, and I won't ever walk that way. It's risky.

You are right that it is risky. However, as SirPleb has demonstrated in the past, he has a marvelous understanding of the game. Since you are only a few months old I will tell you that earlier this year, in GOTM 18 - Celts, he achieved all possible victory conditions. By that I mean that when he reached the end of the game in 2050 he could have chosen any victory condition (Conquest, Diplomatic, Spaceship, etc.) and won the game. Therfore, risky conditions for us, may not be so risky for such a skilled player.

Originally posted by Justus II
I have a couple of questions on another aspect of your game, the "slow warfare". I tend to fight short, quick wars targeted on a specific objective, then take my 20 turns to build up for the next one. From your description, yours was a much more gradual approach, although "slow" in relation to your research timeline might be misleading. My questions are: How do you handle War Weariness, being in Republic the whole time? I can usually count on luxuries and the slider for 10-15 turns, but then it gets too expensive. Second, do you try to go after cities first, or draw his forces out against your defenders and then go on the offensive? I have often thought that would be a better strategy, particularily for MA and IA warfare, but because I am trying to fight quick wars, I go after his cities pretty quickly.
War weariness never became a big problem for me. It helped a lot that there were six luxuries on the home continent. I targeted new luxuries early in my attack on each rival. It also helped that I had Marketplaces in my larger cities. The main thing though was not losing many units, and losing no cities. Those seem to be the biggest contributors to war weariness. Because I didn't lose a lot of units, I don't think I ever passed the first stage of war weariness, and that required just a slight luxury boost to keep it under control. In a few cities I did use specialists after war weariness began. Even in that there's a way to minimize the cost. I find that ofen I'll have a combination like 2 happy citizens and 3 unhappy. In that case I make one citizen a tax collector to get a bit of cash out of it instead of making the citizen an entertainer. It is important when running this close to the line to review all cities every turn to avoid disorder as they grow :)

About drawing the enemy out: I think that strategy depends on how defensible the border is. In this game my border with each of Baekje, Goguryeo, and Han Dynasty was rather long and exposed when I started my war on each. I didn't have a strong and mobile enough defense to wait for them to come at me. So instead I sent small groups of Bushi into their territory. Bushi were ideal for this geography. There's a lot of terrain with defensive bonuses, including many mountains. A Bushi on a mountain is likely to survive an attack by any contemporary unit. So I'd send a group (four or five) of Bushi toward a target city, taking maximum advantage of the terrain. And sometimes taking an extra step so that the attack on the city wouldn't be across a river. The AI, logically enough, prioritizes attacking incoming stacks which threaten its cities. So with this approach the AI tends to send its forces where mine are, vs. sending them into my weakly defended territory elsewhere along the border. (It is nonetheless importatant to keep a minimal defense on the home front to deal with occasional units which sneak past.) My troops get slowed down by enemy attacks - weakened Bushi must fall back to home territory to heal. Eventually, when I have a strong enough group (3 or 4 at least) of unwounded units right beside an enemy town, I attack it. If my group is smaller than that then it just sits, waiting for reinforcements and destroying exposed units in the meantime. My top priority in this kind of slow war is to minimize losses. I don't have a lot of units and I'm not producing new ones rapidly, so I need a very high kill ratio from what units I have, and that contributes to them going slowly. (As well as these being slow units, and my not having enough of them to simultaneously send strong stacks to separate targets.) Another small trick to mention here: If I have a small stack of say 2 or 3 units in enemy territory on hills, and the enemy exposes 2 units by leaving them on grassland beside the hills, I'll kill just one of those two units. That leaves my Bushi group strong on their hills, vs. also killing the second unit which would leave one of my Bushi exposed on the grassland, perhaps in wounded condition. I'll only attack a single exposed unit when I'm fairly sure more enemy units won't reach that location next turn.

In some other games I have used the approach of drawing enemy troops toward my defenders. But even then I rarely use actual "defenders" - I just hold back my offensive units. Fast offensive units can easily dispatch enemy units arriving within your territory and then withdraw to safety on the same turn. It makes for a very nice way to deal with a larger enemy, drawing them onto your home turf and hitting them in the open. I have found (the hard way :) ) with that technique that it is important to have a "killing zone" just inside your borders where you leave no available path to your cities which has a defensive bonus at each step.

Originally posted by cracker
Do you have a reading of your domination percentage?
I was still a long way from domination. I had 1303 tiles at 830AD - 61% of the 2141 domination limit for the map. Going for an early Diplomatic win at all costs slowed me down. If I'd taken all the gpt I could from the leading Japanese clans, and if I'd also built a few less universities and libraries, I probably would have finished 10 to 14 turns later (2 or 3 techs more to learn plus a couple of turns slower to research the most expensive techs) but would have had a lot more land by 830AD - lots more cash, significant additional shields, and weaker rivals would have made for more rapid expansion. I think this victory condition combined with this map is a case where the tradeoff between no-holds-barred speed of Diplomatic victory, vs. more tiles and a higher score, is as big as that trade-off gets :)

Originally posted by Txurce
What is impressive about how SirPleb used it is that he was simultaneously gifting the AI with tech, so he could have been beaten out for the ToE. This is why I didn't go for it.
It caused me a bit of nail-biting, and I didn't even want to spend gold to check how the AIs were making out on their ToE builds. When I first traded away Scientific Method the AIs would have from 18 to 22 turns to beat me to ToE (depending on whether and when I got Combustion from them.) I'd eliminated all possible cascades. From what I could see it was very unlikely that any of them would build it from scratch that quickly. They hadn't had Industrialization long enough to build any factories, and they didn't have Sanitation. Just one exception: if two of them had gone to war and triggered GAs, my odds would go way down. I just now checked my 820AD save to see how they were doing. At that date my three helpers had ToE builds which were 21, 25, and 15 turns from completion. So it seems it was a pretty safe gamble :)

PTW 1.27 Open class game

Link to Ancient Age AAR (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1278445#post1278445)

Link to Middle Ages AAR (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1313992#post1313992)

Link to Industrial Ages AAR (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1314125#post1314125)

1485 AD - At this time I perform my first round of bribery, giving each of the surviving seven civs a lump sum of 50g. I'm now two turns from completing Radio and entering the Modern age. All civs are now polite to me except the Shimazu; they're still annoyed with me. They're the last civ I made peace with from the last war. It looks like the Han will be my UN election opponents; they're #1 in population. I've got some good shield producing cities, capable of knocking out a palace in five turns, so it's too soon to start a prebuild.

1495 AD - I'm the first civ to reach modern times. I get Rocketry as a bonus. I start researching Fission at 100%. I'll be done in nine turns this way but it will cost me around 2500g with an income of -250gpt. Which is no matter because I have over 12000g in the treasury. More bribes, 50g all around! Everybody is polite now.

1520 AD - More bribery. RoPs and 50g all around! Everybody is polite. Is it enough? I've gotta try the cheap route. Too many current wars going on right now to start up any mpps.

1560 AD - I complete the UN, triggering my Golden Age. The vote goes 5-3 in my favor! Too close. I should have spread the wealth around more than I did. Still, it's a win!

Firaxis score - 3777
Jason score - 5662 (if I did it right).

~ Fin

Conquest PTW 1.21

I guess the headline says it all.

It was a space victory, fueled by the Internet.

Ancient era: decent QSC 8 cities, 2 settlers, a number of Barracks, a quick war with the G-men. Couldn't quite get the 4-turn settler factory set up, got beaten to horses by the (French) Bs.

Killer bad luck/judgment: Was first to monarchy, but drew a 7-turn anarchy!! (Didn't even think of re-revolting). Decided to wait before I sold monarchy to rivals. Then the Han demanded it and I said no--while still in aNARcHY!

To paraphrase Jim Croche,
"You don't pull on Superman's cape;
You don't stir Sir James Bond;
You don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger
And you never, ever stiff the Han!"

In the end I only lost one peripheral city (my QSC choices paid off), but I lost a chance to make a lot of money and to invade the Bs (The Han got there first).

Medieval times: Small and nervous days. I saw the Han coming for more of your truly. They refused my bribe of 5 gpt. Then I saved my bacon and offered them a ROP where I paid 6gpt. This continued till the end of the game.

Made a quick dash for the Bs horse city--eventually got repulsed but I got a GL out of it (Art of War).

Industrial: The Han had wiped out the Bs, but then the Hs cities began flipping to me, including the Bs old capital which had the Pyramids in it!!

I was trading with everyone I could and getting along with everyone, except the G-folk whose wine I coveted. When the Han finished them off, I left them plenty of room, even losing a 2nd wine in the name of good neighborly relations.

I was behind in tech but kept buying what I could, hoping to slingshot to Fission and pre-building for the UN.

Everyone but me was fighting someone or another, so I had hopes of winning a vote.

Oil came my way thanks to another culture flip from the Hans. I had established enough cities to make a layer separating their northern area, including luxs, from their south. I didn't dare attack, but I figured they would not lose their luxeries lightly (by now I had a reasonable deterrant).

Modern era: I didn't get Fission first and I didn't build the UN but I pushed for Minituratization, built the Internet, triggered my GA, and moved towards a Space Race.

Finsihed in 1774.

You all do realize that SirPlebs 830AD means no more than 133 turns since 4000BC, or 33 4-turn periods, don't you?!

I thought my 1395AD victory was a quite respectable performance, although I had the help of Conquest boni as well as the luck of three leaders.

I have to think again, since I needed over 50 percent more turns (200+) than SirPleb as Predator. :cry:

Originally posted by King Of America
Was first to monarchy, but drew a 7-turn anarchy!! (Didn't even think of re-revolting).
The re-revolting possibility is a nice discovery because it might alleviate some undeserved bad luck. Some things about it don't seem completely clear to me though.

These things seem clear:
The moment you discover the new form of government, you must select "Yes, let the revolution begin" from the advisor pop-up. Then you will go to anarchy before the end of the turn, i.e. before the computer has run through all your build orders, trade and food production. (At this point I usually say "No, we are happy with xxx," because I'm not prepared for the shift in government in terms of which cities will go into civil disorder or suffer from starvation. This might not be a necessary precaution since civil disorder doesn't make a big difference in anarchy - if you're lucky it can even prevent starvation - but I do it mainly from an aesthetic viewpoint.)

This doesn't seem totally clear:
Secondly, I assume, although I've never done it, you must go to the F1 screen and hit the anarchy button, right? Yet, isn't it pretty difficult to reach the F1 screen on the same turn as you made your first revolt? If I remember correctly, the turn switch occurs when all build orders have been dealt with. So must you not complete some sort of build - while in anarchy mind you - in order to access the F1 screen on the same turn?

If one turn is lost to the first revolt, the re-revolt becomes less attractive. So someone please fill in my blanks!

karmina, if it's any consolation I don't think the kind of virtuoso play SirPleb showed would have been any easier to achieve at the conquest level. He helped the AI to research things for him which they would probably not have been able to do if he had played at the conquest level.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif PTW1.21f

Just a summary:

I decided to get as much land as fast as possible in the beginning. I setup Qitai's idea of 4-turn warrior+settler factory and produced vet warriors in my core towns. I had about 20 upgraded to Bushis when I began to invade Baekje. My first suicide galley found Japan in around 600BC and I became a Republic short after that. Next I attacked Goguryeo, but I had problem finishing them off due to a far away city. I perhaps should have done MA with Han against them. I had about 30 Bushi when I began to invade Han. Fortunately, I got my first leader just as I was finishing off Han. I was scared I would get none. I did a short Palace jump and built forbidden palace with the leader. This was in about 200AD.

I had neglected infrastructure so after having the starting continent, I began hurrying libraries. I even was behind a couple of techs compared to Japanese. They were researching Astronomy and I decided to go for Chemistry (I didn't even have Son Buddhism). With the help of only me having Chemistry I got instantly even in tech with others and I was the tech leader since.

In 800AD I wanted to grab some extra land and invaded Kuroda due to their weakness and two new luxuries. Military advisor said I had an average army, but after a couple of turns when I took the first city with Cavalry and fortified my Riflemen there, Kuroda were throwing almost all their Mounted Samurais to die there, I was again the stronger one.

I was thinking about getting more land, but I finished in 1110AD with a diplomatic victory. Voting was no contest, as I had good relations with others with an exception with Oda who sneak attacked me twice. Over 9,000 Jason points. The finishing date was late, but I still think it was quite ok, as MA went so slowly due to neglected infrastructure.

Oh, and playtime was only 16h. :)

Well, I am faced with the naked truth: I suck at this game. I'm now 1 for 4 in GOTM with my third spacerace loss (1882AD Civ2268). Heck, I only won the last one by seizing the UN right before the Carthagians were going to launch (Voted myself onto the ship I guess)

I'm too much of a builder because like the others who lost I let my pennisular neighbors go too long. By the end the Han had half the pennisula. My every effort to get a leader failed and the host of Han armies convinced me to be peaceful.

Of note though is Shingen Takeda's empire. Most of the other posts don't show him so large.Oda was reduced to 4 cities, Chosogabe confined to the north and Shimazu to the western most island. I'd post an image but I always screw that up so just use your imagination.

At emperor level I seem unable to compete in research. I was the last to enter the modern age by far. I ended up never getting out of communism (which I don't naturally choose to enter,prefering monarchy).

Oh well, on to the Mongols.

SewerStarFish:

If you want some advice on how you might improve your approach you can start a thread in the Strategy Forum. Post a copy of your game at the end of the Ancient Age and seek suggestions on what you might have done prior to that time and what you can do to improve your position in the future.

I realize you are also having trouble posting images. If you want advice on how to upload a game you are playing so that others can look at it go here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=957076#post957076

and check the Easy Upload feature in post #12

From the point I researched Mass Production everything was straightforward. I researched flight in 1110AD. I had two pre-builds for the UN four turns apart (in case I got fission for free) and a leader in reserve.

At the time I had 7 rivals, but the second placed civ (Tokagawa) had been overtaken by the Takeda, so I would face them in the vote. I was at war with the Tokugawa as were most of the other civs.

Tokugawa were furious, 3 others were gracious and 3 were polite. I signed MPPs and ROPs with everyone and gave everyone a -10pt attitude gift. I didn't declare war on the Takeda as I felt it unnecessary.

I pressed "Next Turn"

On the interturn the Oda declared war on another Civ (can't remember which one). The MPP's I had signed then dragged me into war with 4 civs in total.

I got fission as my free tech and used the "big picture" trick to build the UN on the same turn. The wars I had been dragged into were sufficient for me not to win the vote. It was inconclusive.

Signing the MPP's was a monumental :smoke: and I deserved what I got. With the pre-builds I had going and the leader in reserve there was a fair chance that I could have got a reasonable date for an SS win, but I have run out of time. So yet again I will not be able to submit this month.

Civ 1.29 on Mac

Korea is the first to enter the modern age. The TOE slingshot worked bigtime. Rocketry was the free tech so research is set to Fission. Even at 100% its 8 turns – yikes). Luckily I had accounted for that possibility in my UN prebuild and can slow the build down.

Then I start the war of the Han punching bag. The Han are furious with Korea and there is no way they would vote for Korea. I figure that war + ROP +military alliance + bribe + destroying enemy units bonus = vote for Korea. I have avoided MPPs at all costs. Also, a couple of Japanese nations are already at war with the Han. A few bribes later and 5 nations are at war with the Han, allied with Korea, and gracious.

Tanks roll off the assembly lines, bombers and artillery redline Han units. After a few turns of border warfare the Han offensive potential is gone and the Korean forces start taking ground. Furs and oil are the economic targets.

I expect Oda to be the opponent in the vote. I should have enough votes to win.
There are a few last minute twists in that Oda declares war on the Han (the Oda are now gracious to Korea) and the Goguyreo sign a peace treaty with the Han and are now polite. Steam power convinces the Goguyreo’s to rejoin the effort. War weariness causes a slight delay in the completion of the UN.

Fission is learned, the UN completes, Korea finally gets a golden age and the vote is 6 votes for Wang-Kon, 2 votes for Nobunga-san and 1 abstention (Han). Diplomatic victory for Korea is achieved in 1560AD.

Tough break, mad-bax. MPPs are such a problem because you lose control on your decisions. I generally will not sign an MPP with any civ unless I plan to go to war right away with a third civ and want the MPP ally to also declare war on that third civ.

Originally posted by zagnut
Tough break, mad-bax.

Yeah, life is hard and then you die.
I got every break imaginable in the game. My free techs were Engineering, steam and fission. I got 4 leaders before 10AD. My second suicide galley found the other civs. I couldn't have wished for better luck. The one thing that could sink me did. But it was my own fault for adopting a "belt and braces" approach to the last turn.

I actually wish I hadn't looked at this thread yet as there is a small chance I could play a few hours on Thursday and I might have had time to launch a space ship afterall. :(

Originally posted by SirPleb
My Theory of Evolution build was in a city which came before my UN prebuild city in the game's internal sequence so that I could finish both in the same turn.



Brilliant, how do you determine this sequence?

When you are looking at the city view you can use the arrows at the top of the screen to progress to the next city. The order this happens is the internal sequence.

I guess when TOE completed SirPleb chose his second free TOE tech as fission. He would then get his free tech for the Modern age. Then he would be prompted for the next research choice and be able to use the big picture option to get to the science advisor. Hit F1 now and you can choose any city you like to change build queues (in this case a pre-build to UN).

Since the TOE came earlier in the city sequence than the prebuild he could then change the pre-build to UN. Had it been the other way round then the pre-build would have already completed the wrong thing.

Originally posted by mad-bax
When you are looking at the city view you can use the arrows at the top of the screen to progress to the next city. The order this happens is the internal sequence.
And if you haven't jumped your Palace, your Palace city comes before any others in the sequence (except perhaps captured enemy Palace cities) so it makes a good starting point. Generally the cities are internally ordered in the sequence they were founded, regardless of which Civ originally founded the city. After the first time some cities are razed or abandoned I'm not sure what happens - the next city founded may take up the resulting free slot in the internal list.

Originally posted by mad-bax
Since the TOE came earlier in the city sequence than the prebuild he could then change the pre-build to UN. Had it been the other way round then the pre-build would have already completed the wrong thing.
Cool, I see that you updated your previous question here to the answer :)

:o Yes I answered my own question. I should have just waited for you to post the perfect answer.

Well, I got worked in this game. I never really figured who was who until half way through the game, I was always behind in techs, which meant I couldn't take my island. It was very bad. I kept falling further and further behind. Eventually, I had my riflemen defending against mech inf and modern tanks. Not a pretty sight. Oh yeah, with the rest of the world against me, even though I had Alliances with them against the Han, they decided to change when all the trade deals I had fell as my cities fell. Overall, not good. I lost as my final city was destroyed. Well, I will wait to see how the next game goes.

GOTM 24 - PTW 1.27f - Predator (1st time) - Playing with the Epics spirit (shooting oneself in the foot)


Well, like each month, a short summary of my game, as I don't lurk the spoilers during my game...

-----

QSC

You'll find my detailed 80 first turns in my QSC log... when it becomes available... Here is my position in 1000BC :

12 cities.
Treasury : 412 gold.
Resources : 1 horse, 1 dyes, 2 wools.
Army : 17 workers (+1 slave), 11 warriors, 4 otomo spearmen (and 1 sunk junk).
Diplomacy : 3 civs at peace (no embassies).
Culture : 308.
Science : not discovered yet (damn slow AIs) : Construction, Currency, the Republic, Shamanism (Polytheism), Monarchy.
Score : 399 (1st of the 4 civs).

And of course I settled right on the starting hill !!! :D

-----

Post-QSC Ancient Times

My goal is the Medal like always (but a good Jason score is welcome too). So I made everything I could to reach Fission as fast as possible.

My main concern after the QSC period was to settle 3 cities on the barb island, which took some time (110BC : last barb camp destroyed by culture). I built libraries in every city very quickly. In 730BC I discover the Republic and the new government is proclamed in 650BC (4-turn anarchy period). One thing important to note is that, despite going quickly to Literature, I didn't want to build the Great Library. From my experience in GOTM 21, it only slows down the research pace, something I didn't want at all. All the more with slow AIs... Instead, Kaesong (the Goguryean capital) completed it, but I've never captured that city. In 570BC I enter the Middle Ages, drawing Engineering as my free tech.

-----

Middle Ages

In 150BC one of us gets contact with Japan, and I meet a lot of new friends... and see the power of cracker's crew : damn good map, who got the idea to invert north and south ? Very nice. :) Crazily in 130BC I declare war on Baekje. The early Middle Ages were slow like they are all the time ; and the fact that my warfare wasn't very effective made me think I was losing precious turns there. I mainly researched the gunpowder/chemistry path first, due to my free tech (Engineering). In 330AD I eventually discover a tech first : Chemistry, thus allowing me to make some profit and tech the lead. In 340AD Baekje is left with one city in the far south, I sign peace. Universities flourish, increasing the tech pace...

In 390AD I declare war on Goguryeo, paying the Han to join my effort ; on the same turn, a Han city completes Copernicus's Observatory, too bad, but wait a little more... In 510AD Goguryeo is gone ; the Han made good use of their riders, capturing many cities (including their capital). In 520AD, after some good efforts, researching essential techs only, I hit the Industrial Ages, and get Nationalism as my free tech (didn't want that one).

-----

Industrial Ages

I delayed my Forbidden Palace a lot, but in 600AD I complete it from scratch in Ch'onan (no leader in this game, very little warfare), a former Baekjen city (in the east). In 620AD Seoul completes Newton's University, helping the tech pace and filling half the requirements for a Golden Age. In 640AD I sign RoP with many civs, already thinking of the Diplomatic Victory. At that point (roughly) I was thinking of invading Shimazu (the black ones), because I wanted to keep the Han as my best trading partner, and Shimazu held at least 2 luxes. But I didn't build up an army for that purpose, thinking that it would delay my victory and that I could get any lux through trade !

In 760AD Seoul completes Smith's Trading Company, and Korea enters a long expected Golden Age ! This 20-turn period saw Korea doing some 4-turn research all the time, blitzing through the Industrial Era. In 950AD Seoul completes the Hoover Dam, and Wonsan the Theory of Evolution. The Golden Age ends in 960AD, a wonderful one ! I capture the last Baekjen city in 990AD : would you have thought I'd keep them with me in the new millenium ? That's one more foe gone for the vote.

At that point I started to give obsolete techs to Japanese civs for almost nothing (unless they could give me some gold). In 1070AD I enter the Modern Era, drawing Rocketry as my free tech (me sad). Samchok was pre-building the UN through the Palace, but was almost done completing the Palace on that turn. I starved it so that the Palace was delayed, but found out 3 turns later that with 1 citizen gone, all the others go back to work... completing the Palace !!! :mad: So I reloaded the game (yes, I did it, stupid feature), so as to irrigate many grassland tiles around the city, thus delaying the starvation... Here is the pic :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24-21_1070AD_SamchokPrebuild.JPG

I hope it's OK for anyone. If cracker's crew finds something odd around 1070AD-1100AD in my game's saves and reloads, it comes from that.

-----

Modern Era and Victory

In 1130AD I discover Fission at last, and Samchok (a very few shields from the Palace completion) is switched to the UN. In 1140AD I put everything into place for my victory. Knowing almost for sure that the Han would be the other candidate, I sign every civ, except Chosogabe (MPP with the Han), in a military alliance against the Han, after declaring war on them myself. I had a deal with them : they were giving me 181 gpt for 1 more turn, so it's no exploit, I don't care your gold, Wu-Ti !!! :cool: I failed to capture a Han city with my few cavs, and in the IT they started to invade my land (no city attacked)...

The year is 1150AD... Samchok completes the UN...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24-26_1150AD_VotingResults.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/GOTM24-27_1150AD_DiplomaticVictory.JPG

Here are my notes of the end of the game...

1150AD : Samchok eventually completes the United Nations.
I accept to hold the elections... The candidates are Wu-Ti of the Han Dynasty (as expected) and myself (Wang Kon, better not mess up those names now)...
The best I could get : 7 votes for me (including mine) and 2 votes for Wu-Ti (himself and Chosogabe)... So that's a UN victory !!!

Many civs got their golden age, some by UUs, others by wonders. The only civ I recognize (after watching the replay), except the obvious Han Dynasty with their riders, is Baekje : they got a golden age just after completing the Pyramids, meaning that they were replacing Egypt. Too bad for them though, there was no horse near their capital...
Overall, a nice game, maybe not as excited as it could have been, mainly a builder game. My 1st goal is the Medal, which meant science, science, science.
Superb map of Japan and Korea ! Inverting north and south surely is a neat idea ! Kudos to whoever got that one !

-----

Diplomatic victory
1150AD
time spent : 30h 40m 12s
score : 6459

[ptw] 1.27f (Euro) Open

Spoiler 1 : Ancient Ages (4000BC to 350BC) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1327014#post1327014)
Spoiler 2 : Middle Ages to Metallurgy (350BC to 500AD) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1327124#post1327124)
Spoiler 3 : Industrial Ages to Mass Production (500AD to 1285AD) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1327289#post1327289)
Spoiler 4 : End Game Submitted (1285AD to 1355AD)

Crossing the finishing line (1285AD to 1355AD)
Well, there's not all that much to say here. I completed Mass Production in 4 turns and got Ecology as the free tech. Fission was also completed in 4 turns. Unfortunately I had started the UN prebuild a bit late, so had to wait till 1355AD for the win. I too had trouble remembering my name so just guessed. I had been so honourable and given so many recent gifts to the other civs that the win wasn't in (much, there's always an element of :)) doubt even if I had chosen wrongly.

Luckily I managed to finish this game quite quickly (just 36 Hours, 4 Minutes and 23 Seconds) as I was pretty busy with RL this month (hence writing all of the spoilers after submitting). For those that are interested I got a Fireaxis score of 5608 and Jason score of 7521.

BTW, cracker, that was a great game :goodjob:. Were all of the AI's militaristic by any chance? If so that's just plain evil :lol:

PTW open

Finally managed to finisch a GOTM. PLayed the last two GOTM without submitting due to lack of playing time (still waiting for the cultural victory to kick in on my GOTM 23). Was hard going from the start. Tried to grab our continent before contact but alas no such luck. This really damaged my rep. As the final battle with the Han continued under the gaze of the new found civs.

Stayed out of any war during the end of the middle and modern age and developed my continent, racing throu the tech-tree. When in the end of the modern age one of the remaining civs declared war (God knows why because I was way ahead in tech) I managed to get all the other civs to declare war as well (always handy to have a tech lead to convince them to go to war as well for the common good). This really helped to get my rep back to polite as we where now brothers in arms for the same cause. Never even tried to engage battle, just developed my continent and researched techs.

Still some worries a few turns before I got UN. I had two civ who where polite and the rest catious (1x) and annoyed (2x). Started to give away techs, money, ROP etc but without really getting any advancement in approval rating. Didn't dare to create MPP as a war before my UN vote would distroy any chance of a diplo win. So I gave MPP's, techs, maps, money and even a city! with every other civ just one turn before I build UN. And IT WORKED!!! They were all polite (and thank god didn't declare any wars) and I won diplo at 1480 AD with a fireaxis score of 6158.

Too close for comfort but a win is a win :cool:

MPF

Predator[ptw]1.21

Part3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=1328810)

Part 4 : End Game Submitted (1400AD to 1535AD)

Modern Times = 1475AD;

Great Wonders = Part3+UN(1535AD).


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Yurian_GOTM24_OCC_1540AD.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Yurian_GOTM24_OCC_1540ADrank.jpg

Diplomatic Victory = 1535AD (3:1);
FiraxisScore = 2833.

Originally posted by Yurian
[Diplomatic Victory = 1535AD (3:1);
FiraxisScore = 2833. [/B]

Wow, incredible OCC win, Yurian. Now, I really didn't grasp from your other posts, how you actually managed to pull that one off! So, perhaps that's the only complain. Congratulations!

Too bad. I won't be able to finish this month. But it was a mediocer perfomance of me anyway. :)

I would probably have triggered domination around 1400 ad.

Someone knows when the GOTM23 results will be posted?
LeSPhinx

Wow, Yurian! I'd like to see your military advisor screenshot and hear tales of any wars and how you managed to keep relations up since you killed a lot of enemies to get all those Great Leaders. It looks like you kept blockades to prevent the AI settling your colony areas.

Yurian, great game. Any interesting details you could share would be greatly enjoyed.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif [ptw] 1.21f

First Industrial Report (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1327663#post1327663)

Slight correction: learned MassProd in 970 AD, 1 turn later than earlier reported (Sorry!) And I was Tech-even at this point (actually slightly behind) the Oda; so I started research on MotorTransp hoping for some help. They, of course, learned AmphibWar so no help to be had.

Meanwhile I took the remaining continental cities of the Han; Wu-Ti was down to 1 island city. I debated taking that, too, but decided to leave him with the 1 city so I wouldn't be breaking any alliances I had against him.

Eight turns later I finished research of MotorTransp and Flight, and miracle of miracles, got FISSION as my free tech. :cool: Soooo ...

In 1050 AD, civ_steve-Kon declared a decade long celebration of the 5000 year anniversary of his accension as Ultimate Leader of the Koreans. During this Jubilee decade many festivals were held. The people were quite happy! civ_steve-Kon extended the joyous celebration to the Japanese Clans, too. Scientists were invited to Symposium demonstrating advanced techniques of Combustion, Mass-Production and Flight. The many Luxuries of the Korean Peoples were made available to all; shipments of Dyes, Wines, Furs, Ivory, Wool and Silk left daily for the Japanese Island. Block grants were given to aid certain Japanese civs. All that was asked in return was continued alliance against the treacherous Han, which was graciously accepted!

The climax of the celebration was the unveiling of a new compound of buildings dubbed the 'United Nations'. Under the strong leadership of Yi-song, this grand set of structures was completed in 10 years. Representatives of the other nations were invited for the opening of the complex. 'What is it's purpose?, they asked. 'For Nations to meet and resolve differences', replied civ_steve-Kon. 'But we'll need a Secretary-General to preside over these meetings', he continued. 'Only you could fill that position', gushed several of the attendees. 'Not so fast', said the Tokunagan representative. 'Yes, we should hold an election', stated the Odan ambassador. 'Very Well, who shall we nominate?', asked civ_steve-Kon. 'You!!', was the general reply. 'And who else would like the nominaton?', asked civ_steve-Kon, looking over at the Odan and Tokunagan representatives. They appeared to disappear into a corner, and after several moments of animated discussion, played a few rounds of scissors-paper-stone. They then nodded, and rejoined the main group. The Tokunagan stated, 'I nominate Nobunaga-San, of the Oda, for Secretary-General'. 'Very Well, all in favor of me ...' 'Aye', said the Korean, Kurodan, Mori, Shimazu, Takeda and Chosogabe ambassadors. 'And those for Nobunaga-San?' Only the Oda and Tokunaga said Aye. 'Where is the Han ambassador?' 'He doesn't wish to vote; he's in the corner, in a fetal position, asking that we stop attacking his people and let him go back to his island. 'Very Well, I accept the vote'

Diplomatic Victory, 1060 AD with 7155 Firaxis score.

civ steve, an amusing end to a very fast game. Congratulations!

Civ3 1.29 Predator

I was running out of time this month so I went for a quick game...
I started the game playing agressively. By 1000BC I had 16 cities, 11 bushi, 16 warriors, 7 horseman, 15 workers and 3 luxuries connected. I destroyed both Baekje and Goguryeo in 690BC and Han in 310BC, but I didn't get a leader in these wars. I got contact with the japanese clans around 750BC and I switched to Monarchy a few turns later. I conected all the 6 luxuries in the home continent in 110BC.
In 30AD I completed The Great Library and in 50AD The Great Lighthouse, triggering my Golden Age. I got Military Tradition in 390AD and Navigation in 430AD. By this time I was already settling in the Japanese continent and I had more than 80 horseman to upgrade. Oda was giving me more than 200gpt and they were strong, so I attacked Takeda first (Togukawa was already destroyed). In the sequence I atacked the Mori and the Kuroda.
In 380AD I finished Leo's Workshop and in 470AD I connected the 8th luxury to my empire. I got my first and unique leader in 580AD and I used it to rush Bach's.
In 660AD, with Takeda, Mori and Kuroda dead and 50 tiles far from the domination, I attacked Oda from the north and from the south, capturing a dozen of cities. I was expecting to lose some of them in their counter attack but they were not able to recapture any city. With some borders expansion between turns I finished the game with 130 tiles more than I needed to get a domination victory in 670AD. :beer:

Well I missed the deadline this month. Since my last report Smith's, Bach and a decent scientific slingshot. I was in the early industrial times with another war started with the Han in 1110AD. That war was the first good war with him thanks to the railnet.

This was the point I got to before the deadline hit.

I was still in the BCs... so didn't make it either. :sad: Oh well, there'll be other months. :)

Not a full post, but might as well give the general description....

IIRC I started on the start square, and built my city into a four-turn settler factory. The only unusual thing I did was to not go exploring. Cracker has a habit of removing goody huts near the starting location, so I wasn't too worried about missing out on those. With 100% science, I was going to get pottery PDQ, so I <think> I pre-built a barracks to switch to a granary when I got pottery (after about 12 turns IIRC).

I got the granary, and needed to manouvre myself into a four-turn settler factory. In doing this, I got two warriors and a worker.

After that, I built two rings of cities, with one city supplying warriors for defence, and Seoul being the only settler factory. Cities were set to build a warrior and then a barracks. I managed to snaffle the horses, so when the barracks were built I started building a horse army.

The first target were the civ to the north, and I made quick work of them, although didn't destroy them as they had founded a city on the island (I later had one of their cities lost to a culture flip). However, I captured the pyramids in this little conquest.

Then headed down to take the green army. Again very successful, as it was an easy conquest. They were building the great library, so I took a gamble that they would finish it. They did, and I captured it. :D

Then Han dynasty was next to fall. At this stage, I had had a lot of elite victories, but no great leader. I was relying on a great leader to build the forbidden palace, and didn't have one! So I went into farmer mode, leaving a unmolested city and a few rogue units to attack with elites. I got lucky, and it was only a few more victories before I got a GL. I quickly finished off the Han dynasty, and mopped up the Baekje. The forbidden palace was rushed in Beijing, which was (handily) in an RCP position!

Then I had a problem. I had been beaten to the great lighthouse, so was in trouble in terms of building an invasion force to get off the island. I needed to wait until navigation to be able to sail the seas confidently, and I was only just inside the middle ages. (about 360 AD).

I had contact with the other civs, so set about bee-lining for navigation, supported by the great library. Most cities were set to build knights, and a few junks. In the end, I don't think that I even had a single knight victory, because I got to military tradition shortly after navigation!

I didn't get to the opther continent until about 770AD. by this stage, the Takeda and Oda were the most powerful, so I got everyone together and ganged up on the Oda. Within a couple of hundred years, I had pushed them off the mainland. Tokugawa was the next target, and I again could take him fairly easily - IIRC he didn't have any iron / saltpetre.

Mori was next, followed by Takeda and Chosogabe. That left the
Shimazu on the island.

This was the difficult bit, because they had rubber, replaceable parts, and a few hundred yers of isolation to build up a substantial army. The other problem I had was a couple of large cities on size 1 islands! I had initially been hamstrung in my conquests by not having the grat lighthouse; now I was hamstrung my not having marines! I bee-lined tech towards amphibious warfare.

I had large amounts of cavalry and artillary protected by infantry for my invasion of the mainland. I managed to cut-off salt-petre initially, but I could only easily cut-off one rubber. It became a farily laborious process to inch my way across Shimazu land, with a constant stream of reinforcements coming from my homeland.

It took from around 1445 right through to 1605 to wipe-out the shimazu, but eventually it was achieved - turns taking a long time because of lots of bombardment, and movement across the continent taking a bit longer because Shimazu never had any coal, hence never built any rail.

A conquest victory, confirmed in 1610.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ainwood gotm24 conquest.JPG

Bremp, congratulations - I can't imagine that early a finish not giving you the Gold Medal!

I am very sorry for this late post. I should have done this a month ago. but I was too busy and also got AC-adoper broken.

First of all, thank you very much for the great GOTM again, cracker and GOTM staff. I enjoyed it as every month.

I would like to write some thoughts/suggestions from Japanese speaker's point of view.

1. The unit "Kensai" should be "Kensei", if it means the sword master.
2.