Ville2 - 1st Emperor win game [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Bede

Dec 04, 2003, 06:40 PM

T0
Take a quick look at map and move worker to cattle tile. Given the food richness of territory and traits decide to try a modified Farmer's GambitTM

4000BC
Found on site, move citizen to forest for shield output, granary due in twenty growth in ten, should be able to manage growth and build to get citizen 3 and granary 1 turn apart, granary first then citizen so food box is full when pop grows.

3950BC
Founding reveals goody huts, if they contain barbs the gambit is already in trouble. Set science to max on masonry, going for the Pyramids. Worker irrigates feedlot.

3850BC-3550
Worker irrigates and roads, Bede naps and dreams of his bishop's mitre.
3650BC Wakes long enough to note bananas in jungle next to river, the people of Ur shall grow fat and strong on protein and carbs and rich in commerce. Nods off again.

3550BC
Borders expand and goody huts give us maps. Truly useful for FM as first settler doesn't have to go into fog. Jungles SE of Ur contain not one but two banana groves next to rivers. This is truly fat city!!
Pop growth adds unhappy citizen. Change lux slider to 20%, science falls to 80% (Masonry in 19). Shift citizens around to complete granary in 8 and grow in 10. Maps show more spice to west of Ur and the site for next city. Site has 3 BG within 1 tile and a fourth inside expanded borders. People of Sumeria shall be fat, strong, rich and powerful with this kind of territory. Home territory of Ur has three forest tiles, two banana groves, feedlot, floodplain, two BGs, three grasslands, and one plains tile. An embarassment of riches.

Bede nods off again, with visions of sugarplums dancing in his head.

3150BC
With granary due in 1 move citizen to feedlot so growth in 2

IBT Granary->worker due in 3. Mine finished

3100BC
Move worker to spice

IBT Pop grows next nativity in 3

3050BC Worker starts road due in 6. Shift citizens around to finish worker in 2 and grow in 2. Science 70%, Lux 30% 11g -1gpt. Masonry in 7

T20 3000BC Catnap

F11 Results
Top 5 cities Ur pop3, Zimbabwe pop2, Salamanca pop2,
Persepolis pop1, Istanbul pop1
Sumeria ranks first in population, life expectancy, and family size. Last in military service (what military, we're peaceful farmers). Average or slightly worse in all other categories.

I don't think I have ever seen such a plethora of riches inside a one city radius or so close by. Ur will make a terrific settler factory and commerce hub and won't lag in manufacturig capacity. The immediately surrounding area is equally rich and diverse with lots of easily exploitable bonus resources.The biggest challenge will be managing growth and fully exploiting the opportunities offered.

Tall Cotton (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_Turn20_3000BC.SAV)

Hooray

Dec 04, 2003, 07:22 PM

Figured we could use a screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_3950_BC.JPG

Some nice terrain so far. It kinda sucks that we're next to jungle, but at least that means we're almost assured of having coal and rubber later. Those bananas will be nice once we chop down that jungle.

BTW, is a farmer's gambit smart considering we have barbarians?

Bede

Dec 04, 2003, 07:34 PM

That's why it's called a gambit:)

Cross your fingers and your toes!!

zurichuk

Dec 04, 2003, 09:38 PM

what is a farmers gambit?

DeceasedHorse

Dec 04, 2003, 11:21 PM

So, who's up?

Oh, a farmer's gambit is when you produce settlers as fast as possible in order to grab land quickly, at the expense of having no military defenses.

zurichuk

Dec 04, 2003, 11:36 PM

last rota that i can find puts you up next, good luck

Hooray

Dec 05, 2003, 05:37 AM

Can we at least put out a few Enkidus to wander the land and pop barb camps?

Ville

Dec 05, 2003, 06:45 AM

Bede - Just played
DeceasedHorse - Up now
zurichuk - On deck
Hooray
Ville

Build some Enkidus after Barracks, or if needed earlier

Bede

Dec 05, 2003, 07:51 AM

Barracks can go in City2. It should be a 2turn Enk producer once the grasslands are mined.

I would recommend that Ur pump settlers just as fast as it can, with no respite, for as long as it can.

Have fun, Horse.

Ville

Dec 05, 2003, 09:44 AM

I think we should let it grow to 5 or something. Granary is also to be built there.

EDIT: @Hooray
Congratulations for getting 300 posts. Have you thought about custom avatar?

Hooray

Dec 05, 2003, 02:06 PM

Oh my, I do have 300, don't I?

I'll have to think about my avatar for a while. Dunno if I want it to be civ-related or not.

DeceasedHorse

Dec 05, 2003, 02:14 PM

All righty, should be able to play tonight. 10 or 20 turns?

DeceasedHorse

Dec 05, 2003, 07:09 PM

Took 20.

Status Check:
Green. Hit Enter

2900 B.C. (1): Oh. Hell. Disease hits Ur. Pop drops to one. Workers work.

2850 BC. (2): The Ottomans teleport a spearman to our west. Turn animations back on; I got kinda wierded out when he popped in. An Ottoman border is now touching our capital; with luck we should be able to easily flip the city there.

2800 B.C. (3): Masonry finishes. Start Alphabet @80% since the Ottomans will probably demand we hand over any surplus gold we get. Sumer switches to Settler.

2750 B.C. (4) Spices connected, Ur grows to size three. Move worker to mine some bonus grass.

2710 B.C. (5): Mining'

2670 B.C. (6) 80 Ottoman Siphia attack Ur. Our worker wins with one HP left, promotes to ultra mega elite.

Just Kidding.

2650 B.C. (7) Ur builds settler, starts settler. Settler heads west.

2590 B.C. (8) Setler spots a pair of Zulu warriors. I guess our incredible start position is balanced by our neighbors.

2550 B.C.(9): not to much

2510 B.C. (10) Found Sumer. Sumer starts barracks.

2470 B.C. (11) Science set to 70%

2400 B.C. (12) I mess up as Ur grows to size 4 and goes into disorder. Set luxury tax to 30%

(13) I lose track of what year it is for a bit. Ur builds Settler, starts Settler. Sumer switches to Enkidu; we need to explore.

(14) nothing

2350 B.C. (15): same

2310 B.C. (16): Sumer builds Enkidu, starts barracks

2270 B.C. (17): We spot the PERSIANS. Man, I hope they don't get Iron. Everyone, even the Zulu, is up by three techs on us. Found Lagash to our NW. It will have 2 desert squares at full size, but I figure that this is acceptable given we are agricultural and it will be awhile before we have to worry about it.

2230 B.C. (18) I learn my lesson and set luxury tax to 30% for a turn

2190 B.C. (19): Ur Builds settler, starts settler. Lux back to 20%; Ur is currently size three despite non-stop settler production.

(20) Settler is heading South currently, but hasn't moved yet. Sumer is connected, and Lagash will be in three turns.

Notes: Keep an eye on Ur, as it is growing at a totally insane rate and will need to be micromanaged. We have Alphabet due in 10, and no else has it, so hopefully we can get it first and catch up in technology with everyone with one round of trades. Military, we are probably screwed at this point, more so than usual given who our neighbors are. Maybe Shaka has reformed, but I doubt it and Xerxes is always a pain if he gets Immortals running around.

Ville

Dec 06, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by DeceasedHorse

2670 B.C. (6) 80 Ottoman Siphia attack Ur. Our worker wins with one HP left, promotes to ultra mega elite.

:rotfl:

Good playing.

Bede
DeceasedHorse - Played
Zurichuk - Up
Hooray - On deck
Ville

zurichuk

Dec 06, 2003, 03:51 AM

got it, will play it this evening as i'm off out during the day

Bede

Dec 06, 2003, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by DeceasedHorse

2670 B.C. (6) 80 Ottoman Siphia attack Ur. Our worker wins with one HP left, promotes to ultra mega elite.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:rotfl:
Ville [/B][/QUOTE]

And I thought we discovered a new undocumented unit!!!

Persia and Ottomans in close and Shaka somewhere in the fog!!

Oof!!

Hooray

Dec 06, 2003, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by DeceasedHorse
Everyone, even the Zulu, is up by three techs on us.

The Zulu probably just got a big tech lead from goody huts, then traded them all to everyone else.

Good turns, DH. It just sucks that we seem to be so close to our rivals. I hope they don't take all the land before we do.

Those are some tough enemies we've got, too. Pray that Persia doesn't get Iron. And we might do well to destroy the Ottomans before they get their Sipahi.

zurichuk

Dec 06, 2003, 11:31 AM

so here we go, first epic game loaded into C3C, I wouldn't worry about the corruption bug, it is the same for the AI, anyway if the AI build an FP it could be an advantage for the human

We have 3 cities, hardly any exploration outside our city boundaries and we are doing our own research!!! I always the AI do the research on Monarch and above until such time I can overtake, let's go.

Lux down to 10%

2110BC (1)
Move settler and warrior
Lux to 20%

2070BC (2)
Move settler and warrior
Nothing doing in diplo

IT
Ur - settler - settler

2030BC (3)
Move settlers and warrior
Lux to 10%

Apologize to the Zulus, must move our only military unit out of his territory

1990BC (4)
Move settlers and warrior

IT
Lagash - worker - warrior

1950BC (5)
The usual
No change diplo

1910BC (6)
Science to 10%, alphabet in 1

IT
Researched alphabet, research turned off
Ur - settler - settler

1870BC (7)
Settle Kish in jungle for bananas and silks city, set to worker

Trading op
Persia have The Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial and Iron Working :(, no alphabet
Zulus are the same but have Alphabet
Ottomans the same but have alphabet
Babyon the same but no alphabet

OK get the wheel and 1 gold from the Persians for Alphabet, want to see where the horses are, Xerses changes to Cautious
get Iron Working from Babylon for Alphabet, 2gold per turn and 27 gold, want to see where the iron is, Hammy goes to polite

I can see no horses but I can see iron :)

1830BC (8)
Settle Umma on jungle river - set to worker

1790BC (9)
Not a lot, lux to 20%

trade 4 Gpt and 14 gold for Warrior code and 6 gpt and 13 gold for Ceremonial Burial (or was it the other way around?) from the Ottomans (best offer)

IT
Lagash - warrior - warrior (can be vetoed)

1750BC (10)
Move settler, good news, see horses, bad news, see English settler, I'll cross my fingers for the next player

Who will settle first?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/willwewin.jpg

Summary
I wouldn't recommend doing our own research this early on, however this is a style of play issue, and that's what makes an SG fun, bringing different styles together

A settler is due from Ur, I suggest we grab the iron, lux at the moment is ok at 10% for Ur size 3 and 20% for size 4 but hopefully we can connect up the spices soon

We really haven't explored much outside our borders due to the 'farmers gambit', i can understand that but it makes it difficult to know where to settle, still it was a good decision to settle like mad

As far as diplo is concerned we are 1 tech down from the 4 AI we have met so far, that is Mysticism, however the Ottomans/Persians/ have only 4 cities and the Zulus/Babylonians 3 cities, with some roading / further expansion we can get our gpt back up.

A screenshot

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/ville1_pic.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/ville2_1750bc.sav)

Ville

Dec 06, 2003, 01:10 PM

Nice turns:goodjob:

I'm quite sure that English settler won't settle before us. If that city in Screenshot is not their capital, it's too close for AI to settle

Bede
DHorse
Zurichuk - played
Hooray - up
Ville - on deck

Hooray

Dec 06, 2003, 01:28 PM

Got it. Will play tonight, probably.

I doubt the Ottomans will settle first. The AI is pretty obsessive-compulsive about sending escorts along with Settlers. That orange dude is probably just gonna sit there until an escort comes along.

Doc Tsiolkovski

Dec 06, 2003, 01:52 PM

Just a small comment:

You cannot get *anything* evil from a hut until you have your first military unit - so popping huts with a Worker works well in a Farmer's Gambit game.

Hooray

Dec 06, 2003, 02:10 PM

We all ready have a warrior or two, so that's a moot point.

Doc Tsiolkovski

Dec 06, 2003, 02:16 PM

I noticed you have some now (Screenshot), but there was some discussion before. Just wanted to be helpful; I can avoid further comments easily.

Bede

Dec 06, 2003, 02:39 PM

Well traded, Zurichuk.

Nicely settled also.

If growth at capital gets out of hand or we have disease problems in Silktown then hire a scientist. The new specialists are actually useful in C3C!!!!

Also, never thought of using science overspending as a way of keeping the AI from demanding tribute, interesting ploy.

Borders are expanding nicely with a nice mix of res, lux and bonuses.

Do EnkWar ugrade to swords? If they do we should probably start building lots of warriors and cash for later upgrades.

DeceasedHorse

Dec 06, 2003, 03:07 PM

For better or worse, Enkidu warriors follow the spearmen upgrade path; they upgrade to pikemen eventually. I was hoping to beat all the AI's to Alphabet; probably a bit optimistic at this difficulty!

Oh, and Orange is the Ottomans. They got their secondary color because the Zulu took yellow.

Doc: Thanks for the help; the situation never came up though because of the close proximity of the Zulu who probably nabbed most of the huts. I didn't know that you couldn't get a negative result if you had no military, thanks for letting me know that, anyways.

Hooray

Dec 06, 2003, 03:14 PM

I made a few stupid mistakes during my turns (mainly not switching Lux taxes when I should've). Forgive me, I haven't done SGs for a while.
I decided to keep with the no science strategy to save up money to buy techs. Doesn't seem to be helping much since buying anything would bankrupt us.

Pre-turn: See no changes necessary, so hit spacebar...

1 1725BC: Ur Settler -> Settler
Bad-tibira founded -> Enkidu. So, the Ottomans didn't get to settle first after all.

2 1700: ........

3 1675: ........

4 1650: Persians and Ottomans both start the Oracle.
Ivory spotted Northwest of Lagash.

5 1625: Watch a Zulu warrior get killed by a Babylonian warrior. So, they're at war.
Lagash Enkidu -> Worker
Ur riots because I'm STUPID.
Agade founded near the Iron -> Enkidu
The AIs (other than Zulu) have HBR now. Won't trade.

6 1600: Ur Settler -> Settler
Sumer Barracks -> Enkidu
New settler heads NW to go for that Ivory.

7 1575: Kish Worker -> Enkidu
Babylonian homeland discovered far to the south.

8 1550: Umma Worker -> Enkidu

9 1525: .......

10 1500: Ur Settler -> Settler
Lagash riots. Yes, I am stupid.
Persian homeland discovered in the north.

Notes: HBR available from most rivals for all of our gold and 4gpt. Zulus lack it, so maybe we can trade it to them.
Fortify the next Enkidu in Sumer as MP to help with happiness problems.
Zulus and Babs are at war, which is probably good news for us. As far as I can tell, the Zulu are losing. Both are using their UUs, so they're most likely in their Golden Ages by now.

The Sumerian Empire:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1500_BC.JPG

The Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1500_BC.SAV

zurichuk

Dec 06, 2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Hooray

I decided to keep with the no science strategy to save up money to buy techs. Doesn't seem to be helping much since buying anything would bankrupt us.

We have 11 gpt tied up which will finish in 10 turns maybe for another round of buying, normally I would have gone for a 40 turn gambit but now it's 50 turns!!!

The prices will go down when we have more contacts.

One way of slowing the AI research down is to start a dummy war somewhere and bring the other AI in. (edit i see there's already a war going on)

However I believe that the quick expansion we are having will reap the benefits once the workers and a few city improvements go in and then we can probably outpace the AI with our own research

This is just my opinion though and am willing to go with the flow if everyone disagrees

PS Deceased horse, alphabet was only beaten by one turn, we were so unlucky

Hooray

Dec 06, 2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by zurichuk
However I believe that the quick expansion we are having will reap the benefits once the workers and a few city improvements go in and then we can probably outpace the AI with our own research

True. I've only played a few Conquests games so far, but I've noticed that Agricultural civs usually out-expand everyone else.

IMO, we're probably already the biggest civ on our continent. If we keep pushing the expansion, we might be able to dominate the continent.
It's just too bad that we won't be able to build the FP.

Ville

Dec 07, 2003, 01:39 AM

Got it!
Will play tomorrow afternoon (I have exam tomorrow so no playing today)

Bede

Dec 07, 2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Hooray

True. I've only played a few Conquests games so far, but I've noticed that Agricultural civs usually out-expand everyone else.

IMO, we're probably already the biggest civ on our continent. If we keep pushing the expansion, we might be able to dominate the continent.
It's just too bad that we won't be able to build the FP.

I think if you hit f11 you will see that if not the biggest in the world, certainly the biggest on the continent. Fortunately the Zulu are tied up in a war with Hammi.:) Unfortunately, that means they are not helping fend off the barbarians.:(

But those two are notorious for being persistent in their warmaking, so maybe they'll beat each other back beyond the Stone Age.

I think we want to avoid conflict with any of our neighbors. If it should happen, I would fight the war with anything but Enks, as A GA at this point in the game would not be in our best interests, IMHO.

Hooray

Dec 07, 2003, 04:02 PM

I didn't see any barbs on my turn, so maybe we don't have to worry about them that much. I predict some will pop up in the north, but Persia will probably handle those

As for the GA, what wonders could we use to trigger it later? I haven't bothered to check what Wonders have Agricultural trait. Building the Great Library will at least take care of the Scientific half (if we build it).

Bede

Dec 07, 2003, 04:34 PM

We can always keep a horde of Enks around for dispatching redlined opponents in the later stages!:)

Ville

Dec 08, 2003, 09:11 AM

Where I found the ivory city?
Could someone post a dotmap after my turns

Ville

Dec 08, 2003, 10:04 AM

Turn 0-1500 BC - We have a nice empire, we are 1st in Land Area[dance] (guess what is my favorite smilie;) )
Turn 1- 1475 BC - Sumer: EW>EW, Bad-whatever: EW>EW, exploring, moved settlers
Turn 2- 1450 BC - Erech founded, :sleep:
Turn 3- 1425 BC - :sleep: Exploring
Turn 4- 1400 BC - Ur: Settler>Settler, Umma: EW>Worker, Exploring
Turn 5- 1375 BC - Sumer: EW>EW, Lagash: EW>Worker, Agade: EW>EW (for exploring), Isin founded, Barb camp sighted in marsh, 2 tiles S from Isin
Turn 6- 1350 BC - Bad-whatever: EW>Worker, Barb camp has 1 horseman and 2 warriors.
Turn 7- 1325 BC - :sleep:
Turn 8- 1300 BC - Akshak founded (2 Oasis and 1 sugar :groucho: ), exploring
Turn 9- 1275 BC – We could build FP, I started to build it, NOT;), Lagash: Worker>Worker, Umma: Worker>Curragh (change it if you like), Settler+EW pair moving to W coast.
Turn 10- 1250 BC – Exploring (haven’t seen Iron near Persians yet ½x[dance] :D )
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1250_BC.jpg
Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1250_BC.SAV)

Bede UP
DHorse ON DECK
Zurichuk
Hooray
Ville PLAYED

Bede

Dec 08, 2003, 10:25 AM

Got it. Will play tonight.

Invite comments and tips from any players and lurkers out there.

zurichuk

Dec 08, 2003, 10:45 AM

yep, took a quick look at the game as I feel responsible for the no research :) and we need to do some trading

I would suggest the folllowing but it's up to you

get writing from the Ottomans for 1 gold per turn and 210 gold

sell writing to the Babylonians for Mysticism and 6 gold

get horseback riding from Persia for 8 gold per turn and 10 gold

get mathematics from Babylon for 12 gold per turn

this gets us back to parity and leaves 6 gold in the bank earning 7 gold per turn, we should really check for opportunities each turn, the AI are trading amongst themselves but if we can get in first then often it is possible to get on top and have money in the bank

what do the others think?

edit, just realised the gpt bug might really boost the AI here :(

Bede

Dec 08, 2003, 10:49 AM

What about settler/war pair in NW?

Settle on the coast away from Persia or put a little cultural pressure on them?

Any ideas for worker factory? Lots of land still needs developing.

zurichuk

Dec 08, 2003, 11:05 AM

i'm pretty useless at city locations myself but i'll put a pic up with my thoughts so at least others can suggest from this pic

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/ville_pic10.jpg

bearing in mind that if we do trade in gpt with the AI, they will trash their rep if they attack us

imo blue can be settled later

Bede

Dec 08, 2003, 11:14 AM

After looking at your map I think I'll head the pair to the NW towards the ?.

That will keep us on the river and won't pressure the Persians at this point. Although if the terrain is lousy will head for north of Erech.

Thanks for the input. Your trading ideas are always appreciated!!Aggressive trading will keep us on good terms with otherwise war-like neighbors and keep us at parity.

Hooray

Dec 08, 2003, 01:06 PM

I agree with most of zurichuk's map. The red dot, green dot, and question mark were some of the exact spots I was thinking of. I disgree with the blue dot, however. The build would be a bit too tight there, and I think it would mostly be a useless low-food city.

Bede

Dec 08, 2003, 04:51 PM

Hi guys.

Sorry to disappoint but I won't get to the game tonight.

It will probably be Tuesday night so please comment freely in the interim. I can use the input.

TIA

DeceasedHorse

Dec 08, 2003, 07:01 PM

I agree; skip blue, go for red and green, and maybe the western question mark depending on what's over there. I don't think we should have a huge problem with Persia culture-pushing since they've been at war so long, but I haven't taken a look at the save for awhile, but unexpanded size one cities don't seem to be much of a risk flip-wise.

Bede

Dec 10, 2003, 01:33 PM

Ville2 1250BC

Preturn
Shift some warrior builds to workers in outlying cities. Defenders are in place and we need to improve some terrain.

Shaka and Hammi are building military like crazy. Go get each other guys!! Our military is average compared to the others, and weak compared to Shaka and Hammi.

All our neighbors are cautious towards us, except Shaka who's polite. Once some trades are run will open embassies if possible

Once workers are done will start temples in border towns

X-man and Ottomans are buidling Oracle. Nobody's started Pyramids yet, once Defenses are complete in border towns should switch Sumer to Pyr

Follow suggestions for trades:
writing from Otomans for 210g and 1pt
Myst from Hammi for Writing and 6g
HBR from Xerxes for 8gpt and 10g
Math from Hammi for 12gpt
We're at parity!! Thanks zurichuk
Push enter

IT
Xerxes asks us to leave suburbs of Gordium. No problem x-man
Bad-Tib Worker=>temple
Aztecs complete Pyramids :(

T1 1225BC
Pull exploring warriors back to garrison duty Workers work.

T2 1200BC
We've now got horses.
Persia has no iron and no horse:)
Osman has no iron and no horses:)
Hammi has horse and iron:(
Shaka has no horse and no iron:)

IT
Returning warrior crosses into Zulu territory and polite Shaka asks us to leave. No problem, Shaka baby.

T3 1175BC
Snooze

IT
Warrior enters Ottoman territory on way home. Osman asks us to please leave. Sure nuff, Ozzie.
Curragh to Temple at Umma

T4 1150BC
Curragh sets sail
Silks resolve happiness problems in Sumer and Ur. Set lux to 0 Sci still at 0
No new techs out there.
? is coastal terrain with iron on hill next to river. will settle on top of iron

IT Oops! Annoyed Shaka by violating his borders. Demands our departure. Warrior boogies.

T5 1125BC Found Zabalam on hill on river. Start worker BoogieWar reveals that Shaka has a lot of ruins in his territory. Do a little MM to speed pop growth

IT Surprise!! Ur settler=>settler
Lagash Worker=>temple

T6 1100BC Settler to north

IT Kish worker=>temple Agade worker=>temple

T7 1050BC Iron completes!! Open embassy with Ozzie. Istanbul is pop4, 6spt, 10 food
7gpt, 100% Sci, yet he has 1100 in treasury!! Oracle complete in 21 turns. He's now polite.
Persia put Tyre NE of Erech. We're beginning to run out of unclaimed ground unless we go east around Ozzie or west toward the Zulu. Next settler out of Ur will go west of Sumer between Isin and Agade to bring bonus grasslands into play
Will found next city on hill N of Lagash to bring Oasis tile into production

IT Sumer Enk=>Enk Should be last one, I think then shift to Granary
Babs start SoZ. Our ivory hooked up and settler completes. So start SoZ at Ur and shift citizens around to max spt

T8 1000BC Lots of archers heading out of Zululand toward Babs. MM to max spt at Ur and Sumer. Found Kisurra on coast NW of Erech and Der N of Lagash Set both to worker We have 13 cities, soon to be 14.
F11 reveals we are first in all categories except MilServ, Life Expectancy and population. Fix that soon

IT Sumer Enk=>granary
Babs building Oracle

T9 975BC Snooze

IT Persians start Colussus

T10 950BC Shift workers around to forest chop at Ur and irrigate elsewhere.

State Dept:
1) Ozzie now has MM, will take ROP, 2 lux, and 5gpt. Will try it as I think we can trade a few maps around.Oops I forgot you can't trade maps in AA. My bad.
But at least we are back at parity and everybody in the empire is still happy

SitRep
We are the big, fat, rich and happy Sumerians for sure. If we get the SoZ and build a few swords we will be in a good military position, as well, as we can support another 18+ units. We are about full up on workers, too. All is quiet on the diplomatic front and our cities are growing nicely. Get some jungle chopped, mines built and the road net finished and we will really be humming.

Big Fat Happy Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_950BC.SAV)

Apologise for the lack of screenshots but I still can't get decent pictures!!

DeceasedHorse

Dec 10, 2003, 02:19 PM

Will get on it tonight.

zurichuk

Dec 10, 2003, 02:27 PM

nice set of moves, looks like we in a promising position :beer:

DeceasedHorse

Dec 11, 2003, 12:07 AM

Pretty uneventful turns, all around. Shaka, like usual, is starting to fall behind the other AI's.

Status Check: Everything Green, except Sumer, which will revolt next turn. For some reason spices are not showing up in Sumer's resource box, and don't for several turns. Possible bug? Switch one of Sumer's workers to taxman.

1. 950 B.C. Enkidu garrisons den (sp? Den, dan, something like that)
2. 900 B.C. Persia has a worker for sale, but I pass.
3. 875 B.C. Zabalam Worker->Temple. The people build some 'fancy' steps for our....cave.
4. 850 B.C. Marad founded. Our Southwest will be cramped, but once we get that marshland cleared and maybe build a harbor or two we should be able to get the cities up to mid-sized. We buy Code of Laws from Babylon (same price from everyone else) for our treasury and 10 GPT. Can't trade it, not really, since only Shaka doesn't have it and he's pretty broke at the moment. Might have wanted to hold off on the purchase, but with science turned off I don't see why
5. 825 B.C. Ur grows to size 4. Statue of Zeus will complete in 17 turns
6. 800 B.C. Spices finally show up in Sumer, taxman fired and given a real job
7. 775 B.C. Workers complaining of alien abductions and sentient cattle turn out to be the result of too much beer.
8. 750 B.C. Kisurra Worker->Granary Den Worker->Temple
9. 730 B.C. Babylon and the Ottomans both have philosophy and construction, Xerxes just has philosophy. One of our trades must have expired, as GPT as now up to 30. We can buy philosophy cheaply, but construction will take all of our income and treasury. We can't buy both at the moment. We might want to turn science back on and try and grab currency, but I don't know how well that will work on this difficulty.
10. 710 B.C. Xerxes threatens to unleash bloody war upon our lands unless we move our boat away from his crappy tundra fishing village. Sure thing boss. Shaka will give a worker and 80 gold for Code of Laws, up to whoever's next to decide if this is worth it.
The Drunken Sumerians and their intelligent cattle (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_710BC.SAV)

zurichuk

Dec 11, 2003, 06:00 PM

actually is it me who's up next? I'm getting confused over the order

edit I guess we also need a decision on the beta patch and how it may affect this SG ( I for one will want to patch my laptop but I can keep my desktop unpatched)

Hooray

Dec 11, 2003, 07:07 PM

Yes, zurichuk, last I remember you went after DeceasedHorse and I went after you.

BTW, I'm going home for the Winter Break tomorrow, and there's a small chance I won't have internet there. So if I don't show up in a few days or so, you might as well drop me from this SG.

zurichuk

Dec 11, 2003, 07:35 PM

ok thanks i 'm playing now then, maybe take a couple of hours

zurichuk

Dec 11, 2003, 08:47 PM

ok, cities ok

weak military against Babylon and Zulus, average for Persia and Ottomans

we are backward people :(

I want to try a road every citizen tile in this round to increase gpt and later science

change preferences to show animations (can be changed back but I often miss a barbarian hitting a worker)

Trade 29 gpt and 30 gold to Otto for Construction
Trade Code of Laws to Zululand for 80 gold and a slave
Trade Construction to Persia for Philosophy and 110 gold
Slave helps with jungle clearing

IT
Sumer - granary - swordsman
Persians/Ottomans are building Mausoleum
Persepolis completes Oracle
Ottomans complete Mausoleum
Babylonians are building Statue of Zeus :( and the Great Wall

690BC (1)
Workers work
Had to move a worker that had almost finished clearing wetlands due to barb, argh

IT
Bad-tibira - temple - barracks
Persians are building the Great Wall

670BC (2)
Change Sumer to temple to benefit from forest chop

IT
barb horse attacks Kish, we win, the people like it so we get a nice approach to our cave
Hammy establishs an embassy in our capital, cheers

650BC (3)
Just worker action
check cities, governor was turned on for Kish and Umma! (I founded them last time, I've been lazily using the governor in the Conquest scenarios)

IT
Babylon want a small donation of 21 gold for world peace, WE WILL REMEMBER THIS
Marad - worker - worker
Isin riots, sorry guys I did check

630BC (4)
Working
Lux to 10% for Ur

IT
Our curragh defeats a barbarian galley
Ottomans - Great Wall

610BC (5)
Nothing doing

590BC (6)
Just working

IT
Erech - temple - granary

570BC (7)
Working
Tax collector in Ur (this is growing like crazy)

IT
Lagash - temple - barracks

550BC (8)
Working

IT
Apologize to Babylon for exploring their territory

530BC (9)
Babylon have a bigger territory as they won't accept a straight ROP agreement
Trade iron for 180 gold with Persia (only joking :) )

510BC (10)
Working

Sell spices and silks to the Ottomans for 250 gold
Renew ROP agreement with Ottomans and they pay 45 gold for the benefit

I've checked the Always negotiate deals box in preferences, i have a feeling we've been giving the Ottomans spices and silks for way longer than 20 turns but not sure about that, it can be changed back if i did wrong

Summary
Persia - annoyed - 11 cities - 287 gold - tech parity - no iron
Zululand - polite - 9 cities - 32 gold - down philosophy and construction
Ottomans - polite - 8 cities - 2578 gold - tech parity - no iron
Babylon - polite - 14 cities - 360 gold - tech parity

Us - furious - 14 cities - 370 gold - +11/turn

good luck the next player

The fat cats (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_510BC.SAV)

Bede

Dec 12, 2003, 06:43 AM

Looks like you are our Persian Rug Trader, z!!

Deal with Ozzie for lux was made on my last turn, so you caught it caught it right on the expiry. I always leave Reneg off so I don't get caught in a renegotiated peace deal at the wrong time.

Looks like Hammi had been taking Zulu cities as well as making stone piles in the SW. Let's hope they keep beating themselves to death. When military gets up to scratch might want to try and get Hammi and Ozzie or Shaka and Ozzie into a cat fight.

When/If SoZ completes in Ur an alliance with Shaka, then drag Ozzie into war with Hammi will position us to snag some of Shaka' s rubbleized territory in the SW. Or maybe even better than taking on Hammi the gorilla directly see if Shaka is up to a two front war and get him to fight Ozzie on our territory. With a couple of settlers poised on the western reaches we can grab some ground while Shaka is busy elsewhere.

Or maybe I've been drinking the same beer DH was feeding the cattle!!

BTW, if we can find some juniper berries we can massage the cows with gin (they're already drinking the beer) and feed our people Kobe beef!!!

Hooray

Dec 12, 2003, 07:50 AM

Forget all that alliance stuff. I say we just take Shaka out as soon as possible. He should be pretty weak from Babylon smacking him around.

Consider this is a got it. If I fail to post a turnlog tomorrow, just skip me.

Ville

Dec 12, 2003, 08:54 AM

zurichuk

Dec 12, 2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Bede
[B]
Deal with Ozzie for lux was made on my last turn, so you caught it caught it right on the expiry. I always leave Reneg off so I don't get caught in a renegotiated peace deal at the wrong time.

....

When/If SoZ completes in Ur an alliance with Shaka....

thanks btw

ok sorry about the option, just click it back on, i was just surprised to see the deal with out a number next to it, but as you say caught it on its last turn

SoZ completes in 1 turn so i guess it is safe to say we get it :evil:

Ville

Dec 14, 2003, 01:11 AM

Got it!

Ville

Dec 14, 2003, 05:45 AM

Turn 0- 510 BC - Looking good :cool:

Turn 1- 490 BC - Ur: SoZ>Temple [dance], Agade: Temple>Barracks

Turn 2- 470 BC – Sumer: Temple>Swordsman, same with Bad-city, Akshak: Temple> Barracks

Turn 3- 450 BC – Ottos have Polytheism, I bought it for 342 gold, I sold it for Persians for 234 gold, Persians became Cautious (were Annoyed)

Turn 4- 430 BC – Marad: Worker>Worker

Turn 5- 410 BC - :sleep:

Turn 6- 390 BC – First AC was produced from SoZ, Umma: Temple>Settler (last unsettled area near us needs to be settled), Isin: Temple>Barracks

Turn 7- 370 BC – Ur: Temple>Barracks, Lagash riots (sorry)

Turn 8- 350 BC – Sumer: Swordsman>Swordsman, Lagash: Barracks>Swordsman, Bad-city: Swordsman>Swordsman, I see Bab Bowman and spearman coming from the unsettled area near us, could it be there’s a land bridge to Babs?

Turn 9- 330 BC - :sleep:

Turn 10- 310 BC - :sleep:

We are 4th in territory, 2nd in population and we have strong military compared to Ottos, I would suggest that we attack Ottos and make peace after capturing all cities but 1 (they have over 3000 gold :eek: ), we’d have no money troubles for a long time after that;)

I know where Americans are (minimap glitch), I saw some of their territory in SE of the map

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_310_BC.jpg

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_310_BC.SAV)

EDIT:
Bede - UP NOW
DHorse - ON DECK
Zurichuk
Hooray
Ville - PLAYED

zurichuk

Dec 14, 2003, 06:29 AM

nice moves :)

that's a really good idea about the Ottomans and the cash, unfortunately we would have to wait 10 turns as we have a ROP agreement with them but i like it (hope they don't use the money for a mass upgrade though)

Bede

Dec 14, 2003, 07:36 AM

Got it!

Way to go. Judging from the pic we'll need at least ten turns to build an overwhelming Ottoman ExFor, anyway.

I'll look at the map in detail this morning and post a plan for comment sometime today. Will try and play tonight.

Add query: Where should the settler from Umma go?

Ville

Dec 14, 2003, 07:45 AM

Settler is planned to go south from Kish

Bede

Dec 14, 2003, 07:48 AM

Thanks

DeceasedHorse

Dec 14, 2003, 11:50 AM

The AI doesn't seem to know what to do when they have tons of money laying around, especially in despotism since they can't hurry anything, which is probably why the GPT bug got through. They don't really upgrade all that often, unless conquests has changed this signifigantly, and the AI has certainly never done anything like a planned mass upgrade that I've ever seen or heard about before.

Bede

Dec 15, 2003, 07:28 AM

Ville2 310BC-

Bede tours the Empire:
Science 0% Lux 10% Treasury 477g 53gpt
Agade Grow in 3 Barracks in 3
Erech Grow in 2 Granary in 6
Isin Grow in 9 Barracks in 7
Ashak Grow in 1 Barracks in 6
Zabalam Grow in 7 Temple in 4
Kisurra Grow in 8 Granary in 18
Der Grow in 5 Temple in 6
Marad Grow in 4 Worker in 4
Ur Grow in 4 Barracks in 1
Sumer Grow in 5 Swordsman in 3 Fiddle with citizen assignments at Sumer Isin and Marad to bring more shields and food and gpt into Sumer and Isin
Umma Grow in 3 Settler in 8
Bad-Tib Grow in 10 sword in 10
Lagash Grow in 8 Sword in 4 Raise lux to 20% because of unhapy citizens in Lagash
and gpt goes down to 45
Ottomans are dismissive of our cultural achievements, everybody else is impressed.
The continent is peaceful and Hammi and Shaka have patched up thier differences and have ROP
Tech parity with cautious Persia, polite Ozzie, Polite Hami, and polite Shaka is down Poly, but has no money.
Decide to leave Sci @0 and hope we can trade for next tech at less than 500g
Whip temple at Kisuura to provide cultural expansion and dispatch Enk from Bad-tib as MP.
Hold internal debate on startinf GW at Ur and decide that swords in 3 turns and AC in 5 will build OttExFor faster and we won't need walls, besides Ozzie still lacks horses and iron, as do X-man, and Shaka
Looks like Persia and Sumer have squeezed Ozzie into a rather barren corner, lots of plains, some cows and sugar and tobacco, but apprently not much else
Persia's terrain looks much more promising but the cities are still pop2 or less. Spend 34g to open an embassy to get a look at his capitol:
59g in treasury, cap is producing 8spt, 11g, sci@80%, tax@20%, one clown and five productive citizens, zero growth, GW due in 11, 2 sp in garrison, has palace and Oracle
Zulu are trappd inmarsh and jungle with a bunch of villages, Zimbabwe pop2 and 4 others I can see at pop1
Hammi apparently occupies other corner and has a decent mix of terain and two cities at pop6 and 4 (Babylon must have produced a settler recently), but no other sizable towns I can see
There is a Bab galley on the SE coast and a sp/bow pair SW of Kish
We are at the top of the histograph, and the power and culture curves are turning up nicely.

After the nice trip around the empire and submission of detailed report to Gil, finally push enter

IT Ozzie sends sett/sp pair through towards Zulu land, looking for horse and iron, I imagine.
Ur finsihes barracks starts sword and the SoZ produces AC Kisurra whips temple and starts worker

T1 290BC
WOrkers Mine, Irrigate, Road, and Chop (MIRC)

IT Shaka asks that we move curragh out of his territory, No problemo, SB and Zulu start GW (given his terrain it has to be mud and wattle)
Persian archer and settler show up in NW corner

T2 270BC
MIRC continues Curragh sails west around Zululand Enk explores Hammi's southern reaches

IT Annoyed Hammi demands we leave his territory but will agree to ROP for 9g and goes to polite again Ozzie's sett/sp head back towards Ottomanland again

T3 250BC :snooze:

IT More Persian sett/arch pairs show up heading into Zulu territory

T4 230BC Dispatch swords to Bad-tib for OEF

IT Der riots. My bad

T5 210BC Set lux to 30%
Dial up the neighbors to see if anything has changed and X-man and Ozzie have Republic but want lots of dinero and iron. Don't want to give either one of them iron, so pass Hhmmi and Shaka don't have enough gold between them to even make back 50% of the cost. BTW, Ozzies treasury is down by almost half, he probably bought Republic from X-man for mucho gold as X-man's treasury is up at least that much
A little bargaining brings the price to Ivory and Spices 600g and 5gpt. Decide the unhappy citizens and the anarchy period isn't worth it right now, besides if the war against Ozzie goes well we can beat it out of his hide. Decide to sell him ROP for 7g and go on my merry way If he keeps heading southwest he'll run into Shaka and Hammi and maybe a nice war will break out
In other areas, MIRC and explore Babylonia and the Zulu coast

IT Aztecs finish TofA and Iro cascade to Hanging Gardens Sumer finishes sword and shifts to Aqueduct due in 4 Need to get more terrain in use to overcome shield waste

T6 190BC MIRC and explore

IT Persia builds Colussus and starts GL as does Ozzie

T7 170BC MIRC, explore and assemble OEF

IT Umma makes settler and starts Galley Bad-Tib finishes sword starts sword

T8 150BC MIRC, explore and dispatch Enk and settler to south of Kish

IT X-man is sending lots of military towards Babylonia

T9 130 BC South of Kish is a bust. Hammi has already grabbed the only useful terrain. Elsewhere MIRC, explore.

IT Not much happening

T10 110BC The expiry of a lux deal with Ozzie returns two lux and the entertainment budget goes down so we're at 1000g and 51gpt Workers work, and we explore the Zulu coast and south Babylonia while watching X-man gather forces for an impending attack on Babylon, or us Ship Spices to X-man for 150 gold It makes me just a little nervous that X-man wouldn't do a gpt deal for any amount, especially since he has military wandering around the territory Hammi now has Republic and will sell it to us for 900g and 5gpt or 1000g X-man will do the same, or 760g and Iron, Ozzie the same. Net cost for Republic looks like 1000g or 760 plus a very strategic resource. I'll leave it to the next player to decide. I would recommend against it as we can probably get it and territory and cash from Ozzie for a little blood, sweat and tears (No way to put a valuation on those items) We have a force of 14 units in position to swoop down on Ozzie and no treaty obligations to prevent it

That's the good news. The bad news starts that we are now 6th in literacy. Somebody in the fog has Lit Nobody on our continent has any techs other than Republic to sell us

We are average in military compared to Hammi, strong compared to the others, so the next two players get to choose our target. Ozzie has much gold still, some territory, though dry, and a tech we could use. X-man has money and better terrain and a tech we could use. Hammi is too far from our core and Shaka is just plain out of the race entirely. I spend a little cash, 28g, to open an embassy and see if we can't pull a little more than just 19g for Polytheism, it doesn't work but he will empty his treasury for a ROP. I'll leave that one to next in line also

In summary Sumeria is the big dog on our continent. We've got a good combination of productive cities, a strong military getting stronger every 3 turns, and decent terrain with a few luxes. The only one we're missing on this patch is fur which Babylonia has in Tierra del Fuego Off continent the guys to look out for are Monte and the Iro chief whatshisname. Tenowhatever is the top city and has a pop of 12, the Pyramids and the TofA The Iro capital is pop9 and has a really big garden for executing criminals

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_110_BC.SAV)

DeceasedHorse

Dec 15, 2003, 12:32 PM

Will get on it tonight.

Will our reputation suffer if I attack a civ we have a ROP with? Will canceling the ROP before attacking negate this?

Ville

Dec 15, 2003, 12:51 PM

We must wait until the RoP ends.

Bede

Dec 15, 2003, 05:06 PM

Attacking an ROP partner will cost big time. We will find it very difficult to make deals for gpt, or even another ROP for a very long time, if not forever. Anytime you attack a trading partner who has a multi turn deal with you your reputation takes a hit and your neighbors gets cranky.

Bede

Dec 15, 2003, 05:42 PM

Ozzie is our loguical target, I think. He has lots of gold (1000+), at least one tech we could use, and a lux very close to our core. Shaka has crummy territory and nothing else we need or could use. Persia is not much of a threat unless he somehow trades for iron, and only we and the Babs have any, on this continent, anyway, and right now Persia's only connect to Babylon is through our territory, so we control the gates. You might want to keep an eye on the iron situation and if Hammi trades some to X-man, just cut the connecting road, in our territory or neutral territory.

Ozzie is the clear cultural leader right now, so holding his cities could be a problem, and will require genocidal tactics, or pumping up the population of captured cities with our workers. Other than his capital his towns are small <5, so taking them and starving them down to manageable size shouldn't be too tough. I donl;t like razing taken towns as the other guys on the continent will grow to dislike us. That and envy could lead to some nasty surprises from the neighbors.

Anyway, keep an eye open for any advantageous trades for money (prefer gpt), and techs, especially currency, as that will put us in the MA (trade lump sums for tech and pump the gpt savings into research or military)

Finally, be careful about triggering a GA until we get into the MA and have either republican or monarchical government. If the GA should trigger, though, then don't change governments as the loss in production during a GA would be just too painful and set back future development

DeceasedHorse

Dec 16, 2003, 06:59 PM

Mixed results....

Izin is for some reason building the currently-useless Forbidden Palace. Switches to Sword. Move military to attack Ottomans, as we have an active spice deal with Persia. Hit enter.

1. 90 B.C.) Akshak Enkidu->Swordsmen.

The people love us so much, they offer to expand the palace. DH IV, spurning the comforts of an actual building, is content with the Royal Cave, so the citizens build towers.

5 swords move north to attack Izmit, 3 swords and two ACav's south to attack Erdrine.

2. 70 B.C. Ur riots :mad: Umma Enki->Galley. Attack on the Ottomans proceeds. Izmit's 5 spears are killed without losses, it falls. I decide to keep it since it is close to our capital. Erdrine's defenders kill a sword and an Acav, but falls. Also decide to keep.

IBT: Otto Archers move out of the fog

3. 50 B.C. Ur Sword->Sword Kish Temple->Worker
Sumer Sword->Sword Bad Sword->Sword

ACav kills otto archer in the open

IBT: Acav defends against Otto Archer, promotes to Elite

4. 30 B.C. Lagash sword->sword A. worker->Granary
Xerxes has Monarchy and Republic, wants +-700 gold and iron for either. Decide against it. Buy Republic for 920 gold from Hammi, plan to revolt next turn if war goes as planned.

I.B.T. It doesn't. Ottomans bring the Persians in against us!
Persian Archer attacks Akashak, dies, and we enter our golden age. A pair of Veteran Archers move to attack Kissarra. All the Persian units in our territory move to attack.

5. 10 B.C. All NW cities switch from courthouses to swords due to military emergancy. Start killing off Persian military running around our territory.

IBT: Enki in Kissarra kills one vet archer, redlines the other but die. City falls to the Persians. Kill Persian warrior near Ur, capture the Settler he was guarding. S.O.Z spits out ACav. Ur sword->sword. Babylon build the Great Wall. America builds the Great Library

6. 10 A.D. Erech Sword->Enki Akashak sword->Sword Lublam Sword->Enki. Kill persian archers hanging around the capital. Osman has literature, currency, and monarchy. Will only give Lit. for peace. I pass, an buy it for 190 from Hammi
Kish worker->Harbor

7. 30 A.D. Kill more persians. Culture expansion pushes back Ottoman border back one tile across the entire front, relieving cultural pressure.

8. 50 A.D. Ottoman settler team-2 warriors, 1 spear and a settler wander up the pennisula.

9. 70 A.D. Launch our attack on Dursa. Raze it, getting 5 slave workers and 1 catapult. At least we won't be short of workers any time soon.

10. 90 A.D. Crap. Persia buy the Zulu into the war. Our Curragh kills 3 galleys in an epic battle, promots to elite.

Summary: We have cut the Ottomans in half, but are at war with all our adjacent neighbors. We may want to buy Hammi in against the Zulu or something so that he doesn't join the party against us. Osman will give us currency for a large discount, but still not straight up for peace. Military, we are all right. We can dispatch the Ottomans at our leisure, and the Persians and the zulu can't build swords, so we should be ok defensively. We are behind a bit tech-wise, and got stuck with a Despotism Golden Age though. Overrall not the results I was hoping for.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_90AD.SAV

Ville

Dec 17, 2003, 12:15 AM

Good turns:)
Persians and Zulus against us? Since they have no Iron, we can concentrate on Ottomans.

Bede
DHorse - PLAYED
Zurichuk - UP NOW
Hooray - ON DECK
Ville

zurichuk

Dec 17, 2003, 06:05 AM

that was quickly back round, got it

Bede

Dec 17, 2003, 06:23 AM

Way to hit, DH.:shotgun:

Looks like X-man has burned his fingers here, Shaka, too.

Thay have just cut off any hope of pulling iron from Hammi, I think, unless they bought it before entering the war, though I don't think he had any to spare. Shouldn't be too expensive to pull him into war with the two treaty breakers and his ROP with Shaka has expired, or should have, so he won't risk his rep by joining the party.

Have fun, zurichuk. The Ottoman empire will be ours!!

zurichuk

Dec 17, 2003, 08:42 AM

take a look around, we are doing really well imo, good moves from dh

in places the turnlog is a bit thin on the ground, got into the game too much and forgot to write down everything

OK here we go

nice, have 4 luxury resources already, marketplaces will be nice in this game
cities are good
strong against all except Babylon where we are average
15 cities 25 workers 9 slaves excellent

IT
Ottoman spearman destroys a road to one of our silks

110AD (1)
Kill above spearman with ancient cav
Ancient cav kills warrior, converts Otto settler into 2 slaves who immediately start to road the silks again
swordsman kills Zulu spearman giving 2 more slaves
swordsman kills persian warrior
swordsman kills persian archer
pull troops back Izmit, want to pull the Persian archers into the open
line up to attack Gordium, attack best form of defence
mm Umma to get barracks in 2

ok persia cannot attack this turn, zulus are no danger, ottomans can wait

IT
Actually persian archer kills swordsman from fog
Iroquois build Lighthouse

130AD (2)
2 swordsman attack Gordium, take city
Persia will make peace for 100 gold, no way
Kill 4 persia archers on borders, gain 1 elite swordsman
Price for peace drops to 80 gold
Ottomans will take peace and donate 310 gold
Position troops

IT
Renew ROP with Babylon for 9 gold
Lose 2 swordsman in retaliation from Persia
Umma - barracks - swordsman
der - swordsman - swordsman
Persians and Ottomans (doh!) start building Sun Tzu

150AD (3)
Kill approx 2 persian archers and 1 otto archer
position troops

IT
Lose redlined swordsman and a worker (my fault)
Ur - swordsman - swordsman
Akshak - horseman - swordsman
Marad - worker - Enkido warrior

170AD (4)
Found Kuara
Lose elite swordsman against archer in north
silks back online
2 ancient cav attack Uskudar - take city - the Ottomans are in a dire situation - gain 3 more slaves
OK guys, controversially I've taken peace with the Ottomans for Currency and 5 gold, they have an island city and so we wouldn't wipe them out totally for a while anyway, I couldn't resist the free tech, they are toast so I would use them every 20 turns or so to get a tech or 2

Trade monotheism and 70 gold for feudalism with the Ottomans

IT
Lose 1 swordsman but defend successfully against 4 archers

190AD
OK too many attacks to report but no losses and now only 1 persian archer visible on borders, zulus have turned up though
Persians will now give us money for peace :)

IT

Create military units, resistance from the Persians is quite low now

210AD (5)

Move troops into position

IT
More Zulu appear

230AD (6)

Move troops
Zulus won't speak, we are in trouble

IT

Oh no, Zulus have sent more, there are about 12 archers onto our borders

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/zulu_attack.jpg

250AD (7)
Move troops into position
Move workers
Negiotate peace with Zulus for 30 gold, phew

IT
Nothing

260AD (8)
Right here goes, SOD outside Persepolis

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/persep_attack.jpg

Lose 1 swordsman but then take Persepolis, we have the Oracle

Trade Monotheism for MOnarchy with Babylon

IT
No retaliation

270AD (9)
2 swordsman take Bactra, no losses
Persia will take peace for 186 gold and swap Monotheism for Engineering, I wait, 1 more turn and the next player can decide

IT

Lose a medieval infantry to a Persian archer

280AD (10)
Lose medieval infactry attacking Kisurra
Set up attack of Sardis for next player
Move troops to Zulu borders, don't like the look of their forces just sitting there

Summary, not what I expected but fun turns

Zulus are down Currency and Monarchy
Ottomans are up Engineering but will take Spices, iron and 610 gold for it
Babylon have tech parity
Persia will take peace for 182 gold while swapping Monotheism for Engineering
or they will give Ergili and 60 gold or Hamadana and 182 gold

however we have a great chance to take Sardis next turn

I didn't revolt, not during a GA, I also have no idea what to revolt to, we have maybe too much military for republic, tried it yesterday in a solo game and it crippled me? Anyway I started also to build some libraries, we have a mega-core and we may be able to keep up with our own research soon imo

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_280AD.SAV)

Ville

Dec 17, 2003, 09:53 AM

Nice fighting:goodjob:
I guess I'm up since Hooray hasn't reported anything.

Bede - ON DECK
DHorse
Zurichuk - JUST PLAYED
Hooray - ON VACATION
Ville - UP NOW

Ville

Dec 18, 2003, 08:06 AM

Where is that settler going in Bad-whatever?

zurichuk

Dec 18, 2003, 03:54 PM

it's up to you but i was probably thinking of filling some of the culture gap created by capturing the Persian cities, exact site is not important

Ville

Dec 18, 2003, 11:17 PM

OK, I'll post my turns this afternoon

Ville

Dec 19, 2003, 08:47 AM

Turn 0- 280 AD - Seems like some major spanking is ahead:D

Turn 1- 290 AD – We lost 2 Med. Infs against attacking Persian Archers, Sardis captured

Turn 2 - 300 AD – We got a GREAT LEADER. I send him to Ur (wait until Knights?)

Turn 3 - 310 AD – Persians have longbowmen! Lugalzaggesi has arrived to Ur

Turn 4 - 320 AD – GA ended, our leader can hurry improvements!!!! I thought it couldn’t, I let him wait in Ur. I could ”buy” Engineering from Persians for 1 gold (that’s all he wants, nope, we’ll get it FREE)

Turn 5 - 330 AD – I attacked advancing Persian Archers/Longbowmen, no leader this time :D, Arbela falls soon

Turn 6 - 340 AD – Arbela captured, we have the Colossus

Turn 7 - 350 AD – Kisurra captured, Peace with Persians. They pay Engineering and 3 gold. (we’d lost 2 cities and our troops are spread out). Traded Engineering for Babs, we got Furs and 34 gold.

Turn 8 - 360 AD - :sleep:

Turn 9 - 370 AD - :sleep: (these Post-war turns are boring)

Turn 10 - 380 AD - :sleep:

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/upload6/Ville2_380_AD.SAV)

DeceasedHorse

Dec 19, 2003, 10:26 AM

Great Leaders can rush improvents, yeah, but NOT great wonders. I would stronly recommend building an army however, as this will give us access to the Heroic Epic. A knight army, especially with our hostile neighbors unable to build pikeman, could allow us to conquer most of the continent if we so choose. If we decide to take the military path, I would suggest we revolt to Monarchy. I haven't really tried Republic in conquests, but it doesn't seem to be as capable of fighting wars or supporting troops as it once was. Feudalism would suck for us because of all our gigantic cities and insane food production would screw up our unit support.

Hooray

Dec 19, 2003, 10:29 AM

Just posting to say that hopefully I can be back in this game within a week or so. I'm on someone else's computer at the moment.
Just keep skipping me until I post again.

Ville

Dec 19, 2003, 12:10 PM

@Hooray
Good to hear that you'll be back soon

Bede - UP NOW
DHorse - ON DECK
Zurichuk
Hooray - SKIP
Ville - JUST PLAYED

Bede

Dec 20, 2003, 05:13 AM

Can't wait to look at the map!!

You guys have really cleaned up da joint.

Bede

Dec 20, 2003, 08:37 AM

Former Persian cities are building military. Should probably shift to workers or libraries and whip where possible.

Gordium is building temple. Should change to library and whip if possible.

Erech is building pike. Should shift to CH and whip

Agade is building MI. Should shift to worker

Ashak is building MP. Should shift to CH

In general looks like we need to beef up worker force to make remaining jungle and wetland terrain useable, and connect luxes for trade Can use Persian and Ottoman cities as that will speed replacment with true Sumerian citizens

Peace treaty with Ozzie has 3 turns to run. In interim will redeploy military to concentrate on his borders. Ozzie has a settler team wandering around in the vicinity of Kish, I think that will be the trigger for the new war

Will make new Peace treaty with Babylon and trade spices to keep him smiling

Have 7 turns to run with Peace Treaty with Shaka Will let expire, then see if I can goad him to go to war with us, depending on how things are going against the Ottomans. If he accepts the challenge will draw Babylon into conflict if I can.

Xerxes still lacks iron. Keep him that way

Shaka also. Shaka has troops hanging around in our territory. I'll ask him to leave

As for government, will shift to monarchy ASAP, to gain the food and production bonus.

Will uograde the curragh to galley and head off to check out the rump of Ozzie's territory, and maybe find some new friends, or do I want to hold off until Ozzie, X-man and Shaka are off the map?

All comments and suggestions accepted gratefully and considered carefully. Will try and play tonight, late, or early tomottow, Sunday

Bede

Dec 21, 2003, 11:30 AM

Ville2 380AD-480AD

Preturn
Let Agade finish MI
Shift Akash to CH and whip
Shift Arbela to Lib and apply whip
Change Gordium to Lib
Shift Erech to CH
Redeploy cavalry units to borders of Ottomans
Shift Der to CH apply whip and redirect workforces at Der and Gordium to max spt at Der and mac fpt at Gordium
Renegotiate peace with Hammi and give 5gpt to sweeten the deal Will let ROP expire when due in 1 Hammi offers 57g and 3gpt for our Spices Accept the deal
Shaka removes his troops from our territory at our demand as does Xerxes

Press Enter

IT Ottoman sett/sp team move into our territory Persian military crosses our borders, again!! Sumer CH=>MI Arbela Lib=>worker Kish worker=>worker Agade MI=>worker Bactra Lib=>worker Akash CH=>granary Sardis Lib=>worker Der CH=>pike Marad worker=>worker

T1 390AD Demand that Ozzie and X-man get out of Dodge Wake up sleepy settler and send to poach on X-man's territory

IT Hammi calls and asks to renew ROP. Turn him down, he's now cautious X-man sails a galley down coast toward Istanbul and Ozzie and X-man troops cross into our territory again

T2 400AD Demand that X-man and Ozzie leave at once and they pull back OttExFor assembles at Kuara

IT Ozzie and X-man cross our borders, again!! X-man sails galley towards Istanbul Agade worker=>worker Borders expand and put the push on Persia
Hammi is now annoyed at us and demands we leave his territory (Enk I'd forgtten about)

T3 410AD Ask X-man to leave and he does Curragh sails into Kish and is ug'd to galley Ozzie doesn't bite on demand to leave.

IT Borders expand Ozzie and X-man tempt fate again

T4 420AD Found Kutha and poach some territory from Persia X-man will sell us Invention for Incense, 1030g and 10gpt. Accept the deal and move on Ozzie Aydin fall to Cavalry Battalion, no promotes and we capture another cat OttExFOr moves on Istanbul

IT Archer leaves Istanbul heading for death Ur produces another AC Ozzie's settler force moves into range of MI in Kish

T5 430AD Vet MI kills Ott Sp at Kish and promotes Vet MI kills war and captures 2 more slaves. Pike at Edrine moves to cover border Vet AC takes out sp at Iznik -2hp Vet AC Captures Iznik Cat from Aydin picks up sw escort and heads to Seige of Istanbul AC from Ur moves to border

IT Ozzie's archer attacks AC at gates of Iznik, redlined AC retreats toward Istanbul

T6 440AD Vet AC at Iznik takes out archer and promotes

IT

T7 450AD Cat bombards

IT Galley lands two archers at gates of Iznik

T8 460AD Cav garrison at Iznik takes out Ozzie's archers

IT Shaka calls and asks us to leave his territory Agree and peddle him Currency for 50g Shaka calls back and asks to extend Peace Treaty Have to accept as we're not prepared to take him on yet

T9 470AD Cats bombard and AC regiments attack; Istanbul fails Ozzie offers us Peace Treaty, 50g and Konya, his last city in the hidden lands. Take the deal hoping for great revelations. It is only a tiny island with barely room for two cities and nothing else is disclosed
Whip library at Iznik

IT

T10 480AD Workers work while I ponder

SitRep
Ozzie is now a non-entity although his capital will probably flip the city we took at the end of the war. So then he'll be up to two cities and no resources
It's hard to find ways to spend our cash hoard in despotism but the size of land area and population make a revolt to some other form of gov a potential pain. We also lack a lot of happy producing infrastructure so the anarchy period could be a long and painful one.

We are now the fatter, happier and richer Sumerians I'm stumped as to what to recommend to the next guy. A government change is in the near term but I just couldn't bring myself to pull that chain so I took the easy way out and went and whacked on Ozzie
All the indices look good except for GNP and that's a function of our government
Our continental neighbors don't have much to offer us beyond trading opportunities for tech. We have a near monopoly on luxuries and strategic resources Time to meet some more trading partners, I guess.

File server is down. Will post save and some pics later

Hooray

Dec 21, 2003, 07:44 PM

Okay!
I managed to recover my internet much faster than I expected!

Anyone care to give me a short summary of what I missed?

DeceasedHorse

Dec 22, 2003, 12:05 AM

We alternated between whaling on the Persians and the Ottomans. The lack of resources (specifically Iron in this case) gave us a major advantage that we'd be crazy not to take advantage of, especially with the statue of Zeus under our belt.

Ville

Dec 22, 2003, 01:43 AM

Good Work Bede :thumbsup:

Bede - JUST PLAYED
DHorse - UP NOW
Zurichuk - ON DECK
Hooray
Ville

Bede

Dec 22, 2003, 06:37 AM

Fatter, happier, richer Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_480AD.SAVhttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_480AD.SAV)

Sorry no pics, ran out of time

DeceasedHorse

Dec 22, 2003, 11:18 AM

Link is broken, but I found the save on the file server. I'll start right now.

DeceasedHorse

Dec 22, 2003, 09:02 PM

I actually had a peaceful term for once.

Preturn: Spend some of our treasury spying. Xerxes and Hammi are both building Leonardo's workshop, and Hammi will get it easily. We need to revolt, but I'm a little unsure of what to pick. We have over 100 units to suppport, though the slaves don't hurt. I decide to go for Monarchy.

La Revolution! The rebels launch their assault on DHVIII's royal compound. Loyalist troops die by the dozens, but cannot break the defenses of the Despotic Cave. Although not very comfortable, the royal cave is built into a mountain with walls of solid rock. The rebels begin work on a 'trebuchet', hoping that the more powerful engine will succeed were catapults failed.
In the meantime, fighting breaks out all over the empire. The civil war could go for many years....ok 5 turns.

1)490 A.D. A few cities riot, forcing me to hire specialists. Odd. We have an army with one swordman in it for some reason? Oh well, I load a couple of AC's into it since they don't upgrade anyway. Make sure to use the army in our next war so we can build the heroic epic. Send Galley northeast, will try and cross the ocean from St. Elba, the Ottoman's Island.

2)500 A.D. Upgrade some Enkidus to pikes.
IBT: Xerxes moves 5 Longbowmen out of the fog; so much for peace I suppose. Hammi starts the Knights Templar, but won't sell Chivalry for anything we have.

3.)510 A.D. Xerxes wimps out and leaves. I send the army to the Persian army, just in case he comes back.

4.)520 A.D. Xerxes moves more troops in, but leaves when I demand. This continues for my entire set of turns.

5.) 530 A.D. The rebels fail to take the royal cave, unable to overcome the defense bonus the newly-planted trees confer. DHVIII agrees to a new form of government. The rebels will stop fighting and everyone will work harder; in exchange, the despot will no longer insist that he be addressed by his full 50 honorifics and titles and that he won't work them to death, even if it means the possibility of 'culture flips' whatever that means....Truly a momentous day.

Start on theology @ 40%, due in 15. We will almost certainly research it sooner than that as libraries come on line. We are able to cut our luxury tax to zero by hiring a few specialists in our very largest cities. They can be fired once we've finished with marketplaces.
6.) 540 A.D. ......

7.)550 A.D. Xerxes somehow got gunpowder. I spend the last of our treasury that I mostly blew on rushing stuff to spy on him; he does NOT have saltpeter.

8.) 560 A.D. Our brave galley sinks at sea, but not before spotting the edges of a dark green border. Will send more to try again.

9.570 A.D) Kick Xerxes out yet again. Hammi and Xerxes now have theology, so much for that.

10. 580 A.D.) I notice I've screwed up somewhere in the turn log; it is actually 590 A.D. Oops.

Summary: Xerxes is constantly moving about a dozen longbows and a few spears into on northern border. We are paying around 35 gpt on unit support alone. I would reccommend that once we have a few more Courthouses and marketplaces online we go to war with someone, anyone, to get more cities and to get rid of some of our excess military. Since Xerxes insists on sending his Longbowmen looking for a fight, maybe we should oblige him....

Oh, and theology is due in 5, should we decide to continue our research at the current rate.

The Considerably Poorer but Less Corrupt Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_590AD.SAV)

Ville

Dec 23, 2003, 01:27 AM

Good work revolutionary DeceasedHorse;)
OK, now since the new patch is out, everybody should upgrade!

Bede
DHorse - JUST PLAYED
Zurichuk - UP NOW
Hooray - ON DECK
Ville

Bede

Dec 23, 2003, 06:18 AM

Upgraded

zurichuk

Dec 23, 2003, 07:16 AM

upgraded last night and this is a GOT IT

DeceasedHorse

Dec 23, 2003, 12:10 PM

Guys, i've heard that the patch can screw up old games, so let us know how it turns out Z, ok?

Ville

Dec 23, 2003, 01:03 PM

Nah, it should work fine. My own games worked fine

zurichuk

Dec 23, 2003, 03:55 PM

OK, with the new patch so take a good look around

Veto the courthouse in Edrine for the moment, will save 1 shield and cost 1 shield, change to library
Empire still seems totally corrupt, where to put the FP?

DH's last question, should we decide to continue our research at the current rate?

Theology in 5 turns at 40% giving us 20 gpt
0% science gives 91 gpt

Theology still expensive to buy, therefore I don't know the answer to that question but we are falling behind, maybe we can extort some techs from war again

We have 3 turns of peace / trade with the Persians, start moving troops towards the border, first target the 12 longbowmen the persians keep moving in our territory (i think they want to go to war with someone else but I will wipe it in 3 turns)

IT
Renew spices deal with Babylonians
Kish - walls - barracks
Gordium - library - temple
Erech - courthouse - medieval infantry
Isin - courthouse - walls
Kisurra - courthouse - trebuchet

The Persians/Babylonians are building Sistine

600AD (1)
Request removal of Persian troops, he agrees to leave, hated Gigamesh
Move more troops

IT
Babylon declares on the Zulus
In come the 12 Longbowmen again
Bad - MI - MI
Izmit - Aqueduct - marketplace

610AD (2)
More troop movement

IT
Agade - Aqueduct - pikeman
sardis - worker - galley
our galley fails to reach the overseas borders
Rush galley in Konya

620AD (3)
More troop movement, have enough to cover Persian mini SOD
Demand removal of Persian troops - if they come in next turn they are toast

IT
Babylonians demand silks - after much consideration I refuse - no declaration - however I give them silks for the remaining turns on theology and 17 gold
Chivalry due in 7, this is cheap (either we can do our own research now or we are way behind)
Isin - walls - pikeman
Konya - galley - galley

The Ottomans are building Knights Templar

630AD (4)
Declare war on Persians
12 Longbowmen, 3 Spearman and 1 archer destroyed for loss of 1 medieval infantry, 4 elites gained

IT
The Heroic Epic is available
Edrine - pikeman - pikeman
Sumer - marketplace - cathedral

640AD (5)
Move troops into position for assualt on Tyre
2 Ancient cavalry defeat 2 spearmen in Samar

IT
Lagash - courthouse - pikeman (MP)
Umma - marketplace - pikeman
Erech - medieval infantry - horseman
Aztecs have finished Sun Tzu
America have finished Knights Templar
Our galley reaches contact with the Aztecs while still at sea

650AD (6)
The Aztecs are at least Chivalry, Education and Gunpowder ahead
The Zulus are Monotheism and Engineering behind
The Ottomans/Babylonians are Chivalry and Gunpowder ahead

Army defeats 2 spearman in Tyre
AC retreats
2nd Ac defeats - we take Tyre (with barracks and aqueduct still intact)
Lose 1 MI defeating Longbowman
AC defeats Longbowman in Samaria - we take city

Persians don't want to respond despite losing 2 cities so turn tech to 0%, Aztecs still don't want to sell Education with all that gpt, oh well, turn science back on

IT
Ur switched to Leonardos (have the Herioc Epic to fall back on)
Bad - MI - marketplace
Persians / Ottomans / Babylonians / Aztecs are building Sistine
Aztecs are building Copernicus
Iroquois finish Leonardo
Galley goes down

Well guys the Aztecs are at least at Astronomy, bad news

660AD (7) HEaling

IT
Ur switched to Sistine

670AD (8)
Move more troops into position

IT
Edrine - pikeman - galley
Lagash - pikeman - horseman
Isin - pikeman - aqueduct
Akshak - marketplace - horseman

680AD (9)
Army defeats 2 spearmen in Sidon - weakened considerably
AC defeats spearman in Pasargardae

IT

Zulus want an alliance against the Babs :lol:
Persians want peace
We discover chivalry - change to Printing Press
Kish - barracks - knight
Umma - pikeman - cathedral
zabalam - courthouse - library

690AD (10)
Army seriously redlined in attack against Sidon
Lose MI attacking same
2nd MI takes city

OK Thats it, the Persians will take peace for Gunpowder, I would suggest doing this after we take Pasargardae and it may fall next turn

I would continue researching down the Printing Press line (democracy etc) as we may be able to trade this for the education / gunpowder line that the AI is in

Good luck next player

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_690AD.SAV)

zurichuk

Dec 23, 2003, 04:06 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/ville12_pic11.jpg

Hooray

Dec 23, 2003, 05:08 PM

Got it.
I'll try to have it finished before I run off for the holidays.

Hooray

Dec 24, 2003, 01:00 PM

Goals for this turn: Reach tech parity or close to it, hopefully. Research Printing Press and gain contacts with other continent.

Pre-turn: No changes necessary

1 700AD: Der Market -> Knight, Kuara Temple -> Court. Palace expands.
One Reg MDI dies at Pasargadae. The rest of them win and capture the city.
Make peace with Persia in exchange for Gunpowder and a few pennies.
We have several sources of Saltpeter.

2 710: Persepolis Library -> Court, Edrine Galley -> Market
Izmit Market -> Forbidden Palace

3 720: Marad Library -> Court

4 730: Just worker actions. We sure do have lots of workers.

5 740: Lagash Knight -> Colosseum, Erech Knight -> Market
Palace expands.

6 750: Sumer Cathedral -> Heroic Epic

7 760: Printing Press learned! Chemistry started.
Ur Sistene's -> Cathedral, Bad-tibira Market -> Cathedral
Agade Knight -> Court, Akshak Knight -> Cathedral, Zabalam Library -> Market
Aztecs complete Copernicus' Observatory!
Trade Printing Press to Babylon for Education and 57g.
Trade Printing Press to Aztecs for his contacts with America and Iroquois.
America is up Astronomy, refuses to trade. Iroquois is way behind in tech.
Change research to Music Theory. Switch many cities to Universities.

8 770: Isin Aqueduct -> Library

9 780: A suicide galley sinks :(

10 790: Nothing of interest.

Notes: Aztecs are way ahead in technology, but we are on par or better than most others.
Pray that we get Music Theory first and we can trade it for something.
I withheld trading our contacts away. Hopefully we can use those as a bargaining chip later.
Universities will be built soon, so that will help with research.
The FP should help, too. Even though the FP bug is fixed, it's not as powerful as it once was. Still, even a small reduction in corruption will be worth it.

Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_790_AD.SAV

Ville

Dec 25, 2003, 09:39 AM

Got it!

Bede

Dec 25, 2003, 09:49 AM

Merry Christmas!!

Ville

Dec 25, 2003, 12:02 PM

Merry Christmas!

Ville

Dec 26, 2003, 11:33 AM

Just informing that I play tomorrow (too busy last days and finally learned to play RoN:D)

Ville

Dec 27, 2003, 05:03 AM

Turn 0- 790 AD – Looking good but I kinda miss that Knight Army

Turn 1- 800 AD – Trade with Babylon: Spices for 16 gold + 14gpt[dance], Umma: University>Cathedral, Palace expansion: :rotfl: , Americans are building JS Bach’s Cathedral so they already have MT, Persians got out of our territory (damn:D), moving, scrambling and playing with workers, Check Aztecs: no MT (yet), this is going to be exciting

Turn 2- 810 AD – Ottomans and Babylon have signed MA against US (nah just kidding) against Zulus of course:D, Persia and Ottomans have signed MA against Zulus, Edrine: Marketplace>University, Gordium: Temple>Barracks, Uskudar: Temple>Musketman, Der: University>Cathedral, Babs have Astronomy but we get it with MT soon:groucho:, Fortressing the border

Turn 3- 820 AD – Ur: University>Cathedral, same in Lagash, Isin: Library>University, Aztecs don’t have MT, we get it next turn (thumbs up!:thumbsup: )

Turn 4- 830 AD – We have MT, Aztecs don’t have it but since Americans have it, I can get no good deals, Trade with Babs though: MT for Astronomy + 5 gold, Sell MT for Aztecs: we get 13 gold + 16 gpt, there are now 4 civs who are above others: Sumerians, Aztecs, Babylonians and Americans. Others are poor or backwards or soon to be destroyed:D, Start researching Navigation (only tech we can research so that Aztecs don’t have it) due 8 turns, I don’t know when it is good to sell contacts but I know it’s gotta happen in my turns, before other civs meet each other, I can get 48 gold + Furs from Babs for contact with Aztecs, they are the only civ who can pay us something so I accept it, Agade: Courthouse>University

Turn 5- 840 AD – Sell Education for Ottomans for 355 gold and 9 gpt, Sell contact with Babs for Americans for 66 gold and 7 gpt, Same with Ottomans for 42 gold and 5 gpt, Sell contact with Iroquois for 2 gpt:D, after this turn we are gaining 24 gpt (53 from other civs)

Turn 6- 850 AD - Zulus and Babs signed a peace treaty, Kish: Marketplace>Library, Erech: Marketplace>University, Babs are building JS Bach’s Cathedral, Aztecs too

Turn 7- 860 AD - HE finished in Sumer>University, Bad-city: University>Cathedral, Akshak: University>Cathedral, Kuara: Courthouse>Barracks

Turn 8- 870 AD – Aydin: Library>Barracks

Turn 9- 880 AD - :sleep:

Turn 10- 890 AD - :lol: Zulus are heading North and Persians are heading South, when they meet, it’s fight, but there just one thing, they never meet in OUR territory

Note: Navigation due 2 turns, Aztecs don’t have it, we can get techs, I have moved ACs and Knights near Ur to Zulu border, if they attack, we have our troops ready to strike, We are 2nd in points (298 points from Aztecs), We are 2nd in Land Area and we have strong army compared to all but Aztecs and Babylonians. FP is finished next turn

Fatter, Happier and Richer Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_890_AD.SAV)

Ville

Dec 28, 2003, 12:28 PM

Bede?

Bede - UP NOW
DHorse - ON DECK
Zurichuk
Hooray
Ville - JUST PLAYED

DeceasedHorse

Dec 29, 2003, 03:20 PM

I hope the Royal Cave still stands.

We shooting for any particular victory condition?

Bede

Dec 29, 2003, 05:00 PM

Sorry for the delay but my connection went down and is only just back up.

I won't be able to play tonight so if you want to skip me this round, that's cool ans I'll pick up my ten turns next round.

Apologies all round for delaying our nicely moving game.

Bede

Dec 29, 2003, 05:00 PM

DeceasedHorse

Dec 29, 2003, 10:59 PM

Well, I was bored so I went ahead and took it. Maybe we can swap in the rotation this time through?

Preturn: Looking nice, very nice. Uskudar switched to Aquaduct. Send a taxman in Iznik back to work so the city will grow.

1. 900 A.D. Kish Library->Aquaduct Izmit Forbidden Palace->University

I decide to take a shot at some wonders. We have ALOT of cathedrals oddly enough, so Bach's sounds nice. Ur begins work on it. Can also serve as a prebuild, depending on science pace. Zulu Archer brigade has taken position of one of our barricades to the south. Someone went a little nuts with the fortifying; feel free to join workers, although rails arn't all that far away either. The Persian Longbows are back......AGAIN. If this wasn't an SG I would just kill Xerxes at this point, as well as the Ottomans for that matter. I kick X-man and Shaka out.

2. 910 A.D. Zulus, Persians come back. I decide I might as well use all these barricades and start fortifying A-Cavs and Musketman along the Zululand border, closing them off by the end of my turns. Navigation completes. We are building so much stuff that I decide to not bother with a list; we build mostly infra and a couple muskets thoughout. Diplo. Hammi is broke. Our GPT is currently worthless; presumably we broke a deal at some point. Navigation+ Communications with the Ottomans and the Persians +400 gold to the Aztecs for banking. Begin building banks in many cities. Research starts on Economics, as smith's is always nice and no one has it ATM. Trade WM+40 gold for the Aztecs world map. He is big; the only civ in the world that outweighs us. Going by some of his city names, he took out the French entirely pretty early on, and took over most of Hiawatha's land and a couple of American cities to boot. Geez. We buy wines from America. I decide not to worry too much about military, as our only really dangerous enemy will have trouble reaching us.

Oh, and HE HAS NO SALTPETER!!!!!!!!!
There appears to be NO saltpeter AT ALL on the entire eastern continent, while we have no fewer than 3 sources. This-this is just crazy. I think I'm going to be a bit spoiled by how easy this game will go military. All our potential enemies so far have lacked crucial strategic resources.

3. 920 A.D. A bunch of cities go into WLTKD for a turn, but most of them go back to normal after I notice we are running 10% luxury tax for no apparent reason.

4. 930 A.D. Aztecs now have democracy

5. Besides the usuall meandering Persian L-Bows and Zulu hordes, Osman lands a couple of spears and a pike in our territory. Is he actually planning a sneak attack!!?

6. America starts Magellan's voyage. Buy chemistry from the Americans for all our gold and banking. We will make it back quickly anyway, especially as banks come on line.

7. Building'

IBT: An envoy from the Aztecs arrive. He states in no uncertain terms that his people hunger for blood, and only a gift of Saltpeter will satiate them.

Wha..

Bu...

The utter insanity of this demand leaves the king speechless. We refuse, obviously. Aztecs declare war. Oh no, so scared. :rolleyes:

8. A bunch of cities go back into WLKTD from the negative war weariness. Feeling a bit left out, Hiawatha buys our world map for his WM, 50 gold, and 5 gpt. Wow.

9. Economics->Physics.
Sumer switches from bank to smith's

10. Hammi demands silks. We tell him where to stick it, he backs down. We sell him silks anyway for his WM, 30 gold and 1 GPT.

Summary: The Maginot line in the southwest is now complete. The Zulu, unlike the Nazis, will be too stupid too go around, so no more wandering Impi's. Xerxes is still sneaking around, as is Osman, who I haven't kicked out mainly because I'm curious as to what exactly he is trying to accomplish with three defensive units that should probably be guarding his capital. Everything humming along at a good clip, and we really can win this in whatever manner we decide. Our rivals are either crippled or lack key resources, for now anyway. Not that I imagine invading the extremely large Aztec homeland with caravels. We could go snatch his arctic island colonies just for kicks; maybe he has oil up there. We can always buy in allies against him if we feel like it, since alot of people are desperate for saltpeter.

The Salty Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_990AD.SAV)

Ville

Dec 30, 2003, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Bede
Sorry for the delay but my connection went down and is only just back up.

I won't be able to play tonight so if you want to skip me this round, that's cool ans I'll pick up my ten turns next round.

Apologies all round for delaying our nicely moving game,
and the double post
No need to apologize, you had no chance (probably) to report that. Good to hear you're alright and back:)

Hooray

Dec 30, 2003, 08:47 AM

Good work, DeceasedHorse.

So are we gonna try to fight the Aztecs, or will we just keep this as a fake war? Either way, I think we need Cavalry before we can fight a major war.

DeceasedHorse

Dec 30, 2003, 01:58 PM

We have no caravels at the moment, so we can hardly fight the Aztecs. We are two techs away from Cavalry, but we have done only 1 turn of research on Physics so we won't lose too much if we switch research.

zurichuk

Dec 31, 2003, 07:06 AM

well consider this a GOT IT, but i won't be able to play until tomorrow and i'll probably be well hungover :)

Bede

Dec 31, 2003, 08:52 AM

Thanks for the quick pick-up DH

Happy New Year All!!!

Ville

Dec 31, 2003, 08:57 AM

@zurichuk
No rush, as long as you play within 3 or 4 days;)

@Bede
Thank you. Happy New Year[party]

zurichuk

Jan 02, 2004, 01:07 PM

OK thanks for the allowed delay :) will be playing it over the next couple of hours, all signs of New Year alcoholism have disappeared :)

zurichuk

Jan 02, 2004, 04:46 PM

OK finally playing, take a look around, things have changed alot since my last play

Love the border with the Zulus, anyway I change nothing but study the Aztec territory, I know this is a phoney war now, but later in the game I think we have to land and have a proper war, they are getting too big

I can only see 1 saltpeter on their continent in the south. We have 4!

I want a war, Persia and the Ottomans are pointless civs now and could be annoying diplomatically, demand that they both leave and they agree, mmm, in my opinion this game is not a certainity if the Aztecs take their continent. We need somehow to kick the Aztecs out of Democracy.

1000AD (1)

Akshak builds a knight, Kuara a marketplace
OK time to make a move, declare on Persians, move in and take out the 3 longbowmen
Grab some WM gold

IT
Isin - musketman - marketplace
kutha - knight - marketplace

1010AD (2)
Kill spearmen in 2 persian cities

IT
Izmit - bank - university
Zabalam - caravel - university
marad - aqueduct - barracks
We lose our furs

1020AD (3)
Elite medieval infantry attacks Antioch and we gain a leader
2nd and 3rd MI's win and we take Antioch
Ancient cav and army strike and take Hamadan

Renew furs deal with Babylon, Physics, 25gpt, 70 gold and furs for economics
change science to magnetism in 5 turns

IT
Pasargardae - settler - temple
lagash - bank - knight

1030AD (4)
Troop movement

IT
Aztecs land on island of undefended city

1040AD (5)
Take Ergili - The Persians are no more
Found Nagsu to fill in culture gap
Sell Harbor and Barracks in Konya

IT
Aztecs take Konya and land 2 Medieval infantry near the newly acquired Persian cities
Edrine - bank - knight
Bad - knight - cathedral
agade - marketplace - bank

1050AD (6)
Kill invading Aztecs

1060AD (7)
Umma - bank - knight
Uskadar - courthouse - marketplace
akshak - knight - cathedral

1070AD (8)
Istanbul - musketman - temple
gordium - courthouse - marketplace

trade magnetism + 75 gold for metallurgy from babylon
get dyes and democracy from Americans for metallurgy and magnetism

1080AD (9)
Lagash - knight - knight
erech - bank - knight
der - bank - knight
marad - barracks - university

1090AD (10)
Izmit - uni - barracks
sidon - library - cannon

Troop movement

Summary, not the best 10 moves I have played but not the worst either, hope we have rr by my next turn, planting and chopping forests is so boring

I haven't accepted a peace treaty from the Aztecs although one is available, there is a couple of caravels on the east of our continent which i believe we should load up with 6 knights (i was stupid in that the armies are too big for them) and take back the city the Aztecs took from us and polish off the Ottomans, I would like to force the Aztecs out of democracy but that is a tall order and may involve hitting their 2nd island.

The Aztecs are dangerous, they are in democracy and are military tradition and music theory ahead, we get ToG in 4 turns

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1090AD.SAV)

zurichuk

Jan 02, 2004, 05:06 PM

of course you can ignore my comments above if the intention is for us to go into democracy and to be peaceful from here in (sorry just didn't consider that while playing, it's my shunned government, kicking myself now :) )

Hooray

Jan 02, 2004, 08:07 PM

I forget the roster. Do I go after zurichuk? If so, this is a "got it." I'll play my turns tomorrow.

I think I'll make peace with Aztecs now and worry about them later. Of course that plan could change if we decide to shoot for any specific victory condition.

Ville

Jan 03, 2004, 03:12 AM

Bede
BHorse
Zurichuk - JUST PLAYED
Hooray - UP NOW
Ville - ON DECK

Hooray

Jan 03, 2004, 06:17 PM

Pre-turn: Make a straight peace deal with the Aztecs.

1 1100 AD: Unhappiness erupts at the end of the war. Aztecs start Smith's.
Sidon riots.
Begin building Ottoman invasion force.

2 1110: Edrine Knight -> Cathedral
Umma Knight -> Frigate
Tyre Temple -> Court
Ottos and Zulus sign peace. Aztec's start Newton's. Aztecs and Babs both have TOG and are Industrial!

3 1120: Americans cancel Wines deal. I have to send them Saltpeter to keep the deal going.
Theory of Gravity researched. We are Industrial! We get Nationalism as our free tech. Steam Power research begins.
Lagash Knight -> Rifle
Uskudar Galleon -> Harbor
Izmit Barracks -> Rifle
Zabalam Uni -> Bank
Kuara Market -> Uni
Babs start Newton's and Shake's.
I switch Smith's in Sumer to Newton's, and switch Bach's in Ur to Smith's.
Babs apparently got Medicine as their free tech. I trade Nationalism to Babs for Medicine, Military Tradition, Free Artistry, 71g, and 53gpt.
Trade Nationalism to Aztecs for Gems, WM, 80g, and 122gpt.
Research upped to 100%, Steam due in 7.
Upgrade a few Knights to Cavalry.

4 1130: Sumer Newton's -> Military Academy
Isin Market -> Bank
Der Cavalry -> Rifle
Palace expansion

5 1140: America demands Free Artistry. I give it out of pity.
TM trade with Iroquois.
Babs kick one of our units out of their territory.
Bactra Market -> Uni
Erech Cavalry -> Cathedral
Declare war on Ottomans. Land Knights and Cavalry at their capital.

6 1150: Kish Bank -> Uni
The Ottomans are dead.

7 1160: Umma Frigate -> Rifle
Agade Bank -> Rifle
Kisurra Court -> Temple

8 1170: Ur Smith's -> Bank
Lagash Rifle -> Rifle
Bad-tibira Cathedral -> Rifle
Babs complete Bach's. Everyone cascades to Shake's.

9 1180: Gordium Market -> Uni
Izmit Rifle -> Cathedral
Der Rifle -> Rifle
Kutha Market -> Library

10 1190: Steam Power researched. Now researching Industrialization.
Uskudar harbor -> Barracks
Railing....

Notes: I bankrupted the Aztecs, hoping that it will slow them down. The risk is that they may declare war in order to cancel the gpt deal and get their money back. Just watch out for them.
Keep building Rifles by hand since we're too poor to upgrade all our old Enkidus and Pikes, and disband those old defensive units.
We should think about revolting to a new government. Monarchy is killing us.

The Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1190_AD.SAV

zurichuk

Jan 03, 2004, 06:23 PM

:goodjob: nice trading / turns, i forgot about the free tech, any ideas on the government? are we going peaceful or violent?

Hooray

Jan 03, 2004, 06:25 PM

I say we revolt to Democracy, stay peaceful, and go for Spaceship.

Bede

Jan 03, 2004, 09:46 PM

Any chance of taking out Hammi and his buddy Shaka or reducing them to vassal states?

Perhaps a revolt to Republic to get us through the IA while we whittle away at the neighbors, then switch to Democracy to build the SS?

Ville

Jan 04, 2004, 02:40 AM

Got it!
So which government?
DeceasedHorse and Zurichuk please tell your opinions

DeceasedHorse

Jan 04, 2004, 03:18 AM

Two more anarchies would not be fun.
Killing Shaka would be really easy, unless someone sells him nationalism and even then we can take him with enough cannons and cavalry. I'm not sure if it is worth it; his land is terrible. On the other hand, all that jungle is almost certain to have rubber in it and seeing how crazy the strategic resources situation has been, the more land we get the better so we don't end up being unable to build infantry or tanks or spaceship components for that matter.

I'd go for Republic. It keeps our options open if we absolutely must switch later, lets us wage war fairly well; it's not like we need democracy-speed workers at this point;)

Ville

Jan 04, 2004, 03:44 AM

I'll switch to Republic then (I'm leaning towards it myself too)

Ville

Jan 04, 2004, 05:31 AM

Turn 0- 1190 AD – I could get 121gpt+some gold from Babs for Steam Power, I trade. ($)($) <- my eyes:lol:, start revolution (5 turns). We were gaining +183 gpt, now we gain +337 gpt in anarchy. I’d say we stay in anarchy a bit longer:lol:

IT – Babs are suggesting 14gpt for Spices deal, I’ll check if I can get more, I could get 15 gpt for it, accepted.

Turn 1- 1200 AD – Checking diplomacy again, Aztecs still in bankrupt, railroading

IT – babs moving workers in border (nothing)

Turn 2- 1210 AD – Railroading, Babs and Aztecs have Communism (I’m not buying it)

IT – Philadelphia has comleted a great project, Shakespeare’s Theater, we lost our supply of Furs, No effect in happiness and I don’t want to pay 660 gold for it so big deal

Turn 3- 1220 AD – Railroading, I sold Silks for Babs for 21 gpt+ 49 gold+ WM

IT – Texcoco comleted a great project, Magellan’s Voyage

Turn 4- 1230 AD – Railroading, Babs have Fascism

IT – Aztecs and Babs have signed MPP, We are Republic now[dance]

Turn 5- 1240 AD – Industrialization in 4 turns[dance], railroading

IT – Nothing

Turn 6- 1250 AD – Railroading

IT – Lagash: Rifleman>Rifleman, Same in Agade, Akshak: Cathedral>Rifleman

Turn 7- 1255 AD – Railroading

IT – Umma: Rifleman>Rifleman, Marad: University>Temple

Turn 8- 1260 AD – Railroading

IT – Industrialization>Electricity (5 turns) (ToE is possible to get if pre-build), Sell Industrialization for Babs for Communism+WM+37 gold+ 52 gpt
Kish: University>Rifleman, Bad-city: Rifleman>Rifleman, Same in Der, Kuara: University>Bank, Babs are building US

Turn 9- 1265 AD – Railroading, Change Ur from Bank to Factory (US)

IT – Edrine: Cathedral>Rifleman, Uskudar: Barracks>Rifleman

Turn 10- 1270 AD – Railroading, change research to 90% (no effect to research)

Notes: Zulus have only Impis, This is our chance to hit, build more riflemen and cavalry.
Don’t attack if Babs or Aztecs sign MPP with Zulus (unless we have strong military compared to Aztecs). We have strong economy and we can continue 100% research if we get GPT deals from Aztecs and Babs.

Here’s a map of railroad network provided by Sumerian Railroads company:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1270_AD_RR.jpg

Fatter, Happier and even Richer Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1270_AD.SAV)

zurichuk

Jan 04, 2004, 07:00 AM

personally i have a large aversion to democracy ever since one of my first games where i was in democracy, got into an unwanted war, got forced out of democracy twice due to ww, incurring 3/4 surplus long game threatening anarchies on the way, that's why i failed to consider it as an option however the main threat here is on another continent so i'll sit bravely on the fence here :) and go with the flow

i will say if we go to democracy and avoid war then this game is in the bag albeit a little boring. but i'm willing to do it

edit you've already played :lol:

Ville

Jan 04, 2004, 08:05 AM

Bede - UP NOW
DHorse - ON DECK
Zurichuk
Hooray
Ville - JUST PLAYED

Bede

Jan 04, 2004, 11:03 AM

Got it

DeceasedHorse

Jan 04, 2004, 02:40 PM

How do you guys post screen shots? For that matter, how do you take screen shots? Print Screen?

Bede

Jan 04, 2004, 05:22 PM

PreTurn Shift military around and spend some gold on upgrades Cash rush settler in Nagsu for Poaching on Zulu territory Pasagadae citizens are corrupt and unhappy Hire a taxmen and draft a citizen into glorious army Doesn't improve their attitude much but at least produces something Do same at corruption ridden Sidon Shift some citzenry around at Sumer to increase gpt and shift to Factory Draft an unhappy citizen at Tyre Change rifleman at Umma to settler for some more Zulu poaching Aztecs and Iro are broke Lincoln will offer Dyes, WM and 13g for Communism and Medicine Sell 'em Hammi offers his treasury for an MPP As he has one with Monte will do the deal and hope Hammi starts Zulu war

Push enter

IT Lincoln starts an Indian War Goodbye Hiawatha Sumer finishes factory starts coal plant Lagash finishes RM starts Factory Umma finishes settler starts Factory Nagsu finishes settler starts Library WLKTD breaks out all over and palace gets back porch

T1 1275AD Assemble forces on Zulu border and build railnet concentrating on shield and gold producing tiles now that rails to frontlines are substantially complete Trade maps with Abe to check on progress of war with Happy Hiawatha, no change in territory

IT

T2 1280AD More railing and picking at Shaka hoping he'll declare war

IT Abe calls and cancels the wine for silks deal and wants SteamPower to continue it. Stuff it in that big hat Abe Marad riots now that wines are gone Gems go away too O boy now the riots will start Must have been a bunch of gold in the peace deal with Monte as gpt drops a hundredweight at least Monte will buy silks for 16 gpt Sell 'em He wants Tech for Gems, no deal Monte, sorry

T3 1285AD More rails Hire cops in all the edgy cities to prevent riots and reduce corruption
Time to push on Shaka a little harder Move settler out of Marad to poach Found Susa right on border and cash rush temple Will leave city undefended hoping Shaka takes the bait

IT Istanbul riots Hire cop Persepolis riots Hire clowns Parsagadae and Iznik riot Hire clowns everywhere and switch production to MP. Will rush when disorder ends Agade riots Hire clowns, again

T4 1290AD So who laid the rail?

IT

T5 1295AD And more rails? Crank up lux as I'm tired of watching over all these cities for incipient rioting

IT Pasargadae finishes MP Hire a bunch of cops and jack spt to 4 start CH Sumer finishes coal plant and starts bank Zabalam finishes bank starts copshop for no other reason than I can't think of anything else to do there WLKTD breaks out all over Aztecs start UnivSuff

T6 1300AD Resist the temptation to automate workers Check in with Abe again How's the war Buddy? Happy Hiawatha is down to two cities Make him a gift of some iron and SP to keep his chin up (It's dragging in the dust now) He's got horses so maybe he can put up a little better defense Throw in MilTrad for 16g Taking Tonawanda has given Abe access to Saltpeter and he now has Steam but no coal All that undeveloped ground in Zululand is making me jumpy but I won't pull the trigger without provocation

IT Sidon riots again. Those damn Persians are more trouble than they are worth Hire some more clowns and hope they go away quietly

T7 1305AD Rails, rails and rails Decide to open a hole in western defenses and hope Shaka's curiousity gets the better of him

IT Hiawatha and the Iroquois are no more

T8 1310AD More rails

IT Hammi makes a harassing phone call and demands tribute Tell him to stuff it and he becomes polite

T9 1315AD More rails Shaka will cave to demand for tribute but not gpt Declare war
Intombe falls to Ancient Cavalry and Cavalry combined arms and is heavily garrisoned Settler and riflemen move out of Marad to jungle corner There are only three resistors in pop6 Intombe and infrastrucure remains intact with barracks, marketplace and aqueduct Three taxpeople send wealth of Zulu to Ur Border force heads towards Zimbabwe and Mpondo

IT Resistance ends in Intombe. Scientific method comes in and Sumer switches to ToE. Ur is building UnivSuff as prebuild for Hoover when ToE comes in GPT expire and treasury goes into deficit

T10 1320AD Citizens in Intombe have no cultural memory so put 'em back to work and move troops outside Old Reliables (Ancient Cav and Knight Army) attack Mponde and Zimbabwe taking out two defenders with minimal casulaties Hammi will pay 225gpt for SciMeth As ToE is due in eight, Sell it! Monte will offer Gems for Incense and 20GPT Buy'em Lincoln will sell wine for 80gpt Buy 'em New luxes mean entertainment tax goes to zero recovering 65gpt more than they cost and clowns turn into cops most everywhere so uncorrupted shields go up in the former Persian and Ottoman lands Research on RepParts increases to 80% due in 5 turns ToE will net us Atomic Theory and Electronics in eight turns

:goodjob: TeamVille Despite our punishment of our neighbors for their trespasses and other defalcations (real or imagined) our trading rep remains unimpaired. Everybody left is more than happy to accept our gpt offers so go get the Zulus!!!

BTW if they don't make it into our territory with their military :rotfl: then the MPP with Hammi won't trigger and we won't have to share the jungles and marshes with him (I prefer to think of them as oilfields and rubber plantations:D)

The Fatter, Happier, Richer, Meaner Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/VIlle2_1320AD.SAV)

Bede

Jan 04, 2004, 05:39 PM

The West

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/West.jpg

The Core

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/TheCore.jpg

Persia that was

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Persiathatwas.jpg

Ozland

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OttoLands.jpg

Ville

Jan 05, 2004, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by DeceasedHorse
How do you guys post screen shots? For that matter, how do you take screen shots? Print Screen?

Originally posted by Sirp
How do I take screenshots?
Use the capture-function of a graphics program
or
Hit the 'Prt Scrn' button on your keyboard. Then open a graphics program such as Paint (you can use the windows key, then go to Programs....Accesories...Paint, this way you don't need to exit the game), then you 'paste' and there's the screenshot! Remember to reduce the image size a bit, or crop it, and save the file as .JPG. There are also lots of screenshot programs (http://download.com.com/3120-20-0.html?qt=screenshot&tg=dl-2001) you can download at download.com.

zurichuk

Jan 05, 2004, 07:38 PM

hi guys I have a problem, my laptop screen packed up last night and goes into repair today and will take 2 weeks to repair, I may be somewhat slower in responding as i use this pc to work from so skip me if i am slow, (luckily there was 5 days left on the guarantee)

Ville

Jan 06, 2004, 03:07 AM

Bede - Just played
DHorse - Up now
Zurichuk - On deck/Skip if needed
Hooray
Ville

DeceasedHorse

Jan 06, 2004, 02:31 PM

Will get on it tonight

DeceasedHorse

Jan 07, 2004, 01:32 AM

Preturn: Lookin' good. I expect Zimbabwe to fall within a couple of turns. Replacable parts and infantry come in 5 turns. Hammi has Facism, but I see no need to purchase it.

IBT: Zulu L-bows kill 1 A-cav, force another to retreat. Zulu L-bows kill an MDI in our territory, bringing Babylon into the war. It's now a race to gobble up as much of the Zulu territory as possible. Looking back at the save, I see no way to prevent the attack on our territory. No units were in range of the open mountain tile the Lbow used to attack our MDI

1) I said some misc. troops and a cannon fortified up where Persia used to be to reinforce the attack. Have an MDI kill the Zulu Lbow that triggered the MPP. Kill 2 Lbows hiding out in the woods north of Mpondo w/ cannon and ACav. Move troops up to attack Zimbabwe and Mpondo next turn. Rushbuy a factory in Agadae to produce reinforcements. I decide to send the army against Zimbabwe this turn. Trebuchet fire and an Impi does 5 HP damage, but the army defeats the 2 pathetic defenders and takes the capital. Talk about overkill; we had 8 riflemen, 1 army, and 2 MDI in position for the anticipated 'siege' of the Zulu capital. I just hope they hold up a little better in the south against the Babylonians. Make some railroads

IBT: Zulu impi moves up, lbows head south. Babs raze a Zulu city south of Mpondo

2) As hoped, Agadae hits 34 spt with 4 corruption, allowing it to build a cav every 3 turns. Monteczuma is still broke, but America has gotten some GPT freed up, so I remedy that situation and sell them Electricity for WM and 34 GPT.

The battle of Mpondo: We take Mpondo with no casulties, decide to keep it since the zulu will not exactly be around to apply cultural pressure...

IBT: Babylonian Cavalry run up and kill a couple of archers. They raze another city, south of Ishandawala(sp) They also attack Ulundi, the new size 11 Zulu capital, killing all but one defender and redlining that one. :cool: We have 2 cavs that can finish the job next turn.

3. Various infrastructure projects complete. Capture Ngome, losing 1 rifleman. Attack on Ulundi kills one Impi, but the other cav loses, promoting the Impi to Elite. Damn, we spot the Babylonian army beseiging the city. 4 Rifles and 4 Lbows, with 4 cavs coming up behind them. Looks like we won't get Ulundi after all, with our army one turn from attacking.

IBT: Sell Silks for 32 GPT to Hammi. Babylonians take Ulundi, although the mighty Elite Impi kills yet another Cavalry

4. Build Rails around Ur, bringing up SPT enough to cut a turn off of Universal Sufferage. Americans start TOE, a little late though, hehehe. Prepare to launch attack on Ishlanwhatever next turn, move units around to blockade the Babylonian troops streaming north

5. Replaceable Parts finish. Our legions of workers are issued brand-new shovels and rakes to replace the rocks and pointy sticks previously employed. This is agreed to be a good development by all. Start on Sanitation, due in 4@70% with +238 gpt. The end has come for Shaka Zulu, and his last city with the unspellable and very-difficult-to-pronounce city falls to our depraved hordes. Start a couple settlers to fill up Olde Zululand. Spend much of our treasury upgrading about a third of our rifleman to Infantry.

6. I've been workin' on the railroad, all the live long day...
I remember what TOE actually does, so I switch off research and set to Atomic Theory. I don't know what Shaka did all game; his land isn't actually all that bad, with a good amount of bonus grass under all that jungle. Our worker army and our slaves will cut it down in short order.

7. TOE finishes, we do the usual Atomic Theory/Electronics slingshot. Start on sanitation again. Sell Atomic Theory to Hammurabi for everything he has and Facism.

8. Aztecs demand Saltpeter , I tell him to go to hell since we can always rushbuy a bunch of artillery and use our new rail system to tear any invasion force to shreds. He backs down though, not willing to break the multiple GPT and luxury deals we have with each other.

9. Babs found Nimrud on a former Zulu city site before our en route settler/rifle pair arrives. Send it up to make a fishing village, or whatever. Found Minas Morgul on the Babylonian border.

10. Uskudar riots as the Americans cut off our dye supply. Hire a policeman. Lincoln wants either Atomic theory or a truly silly amount of gold (like 80 gpt) to renew the deal. Next leader can make the call on this.

Summary: The Zulus are finished. We have the Hoover Dam due in 6, the military academy in 7(or switch it to Universal Sufferage if you want) Most of our military is hanging out in ye olde Zululand or up in Marad behind the Maginot Line, with some infantry and rifles sent off to garrison duty. I felt a little silly guarding our great capital with a single Enkidu warrior. The Aztecs are still bigger than us territory wise, but we are even in population and I'll bet we overtake them once we get sanitation in one turn and start hospitals. I'm not sure how much longer I can keep all our workers going on manual :) ;our native workers alone account for a fourth of our total units, but they and enslaved minions will be busy for a little while leveling the rain forest down south.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/civ1355.JPG The Zulu-Smiting Sumerian Farmers (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1370AD.SAV)

Ville

Jan 07, 2004, 06:52 AM

Nice turns:thumbsup:

Bede
DHorse - Just played
Zurichuk - Up now
Hooray - On deck
Ville

zurichuk

Jan 07, 2004, 06:48 PM

ok sorry guys you will have to skip me until i get my faulty laptop back, i cannot afford to free up my desktop (i work at home), this is my first ever skip :(

Hooray

Jan 07, 2004, 08:19 PM

Then, I got it. I'll play my turns and post them tomorrow.

Hooray

Jan 08, 2004, 07:43 PM

I'm not going to bother writing down city productions. It's tedious, boring, unimportant, and you probably won't pay much attention to it anyway. Mostly I just built Hospitals, Police Stations, Infantry, Artillery, and some necessary improvements down in Zululand.

Pre-turn: No changes

1 1375 AD:
Renew MPP with Babylon.
Sanitation learned. The Corporation due in 4 turns.

2 1380:
Nothing important.

3 1385:
Build a city called Kutallu down in the Zulu jungle because we had a Settler running around down there for some reason.

4 1390:
Cancel Aztec Silk deal. We don't need the money, and I don't want to ruin our rep if we get into a war with them.

5 1395:
Corporation learned. Refining due in 5.
Beginning to build Stock Exchanges.

6 1400:
Ur Hoover Dam -> Cathedral (it's getting a bit unhappy).
Starting to get some pollution.

7 1405:
Get popup message to build Battlefield Medicine.
AIs all have Espionage. We lack it, but probably don't need it.

8 1410:
Sumer Mil. Academy -> Battlefield Medicine

9 1415:
Aztecs and Babylonians sign an MPP! Bad news for us!

10 1420 AD:
Refining research. Steel due in 6 turns.

Just a bunch of long, boring turns, filled with mostly railing and chopping jungle. Ugh, so many workers....

The Save:
The really bored Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1420_AD.SAV)

Ville

Jan 09, 2004, 04:17 AM

I play today or tomorrow

zurichuk

Jan 09, 2004, 04:40 AM

hi guys, got laptop back and back in the SG, unbelievable service, monitor broke down Sunday, rang Sony Monday, DHL picked it up Tuesday to send it to France, they delivered it back this morning complete with new monitor

on topic, everything seems to be going hunky-dory

Ville

Jan 09, 2004, 06:28 AM

zurichuk, if you want, you may take this save and play your turn, I have already 1 SG to be played today

zurichuk

Jan 09, 2004, 06:39 AM

ok cool , then this is a got it, i'm free to play it late this evening / tomorrow afternoon uk time

Ville

Jan 09, 2004, 06:42 AM

OK

Bede
DHorse
Zurichuk - PLAYING
Hooray - JUST PLAYED
Ville - ON DECK

zurichuk

Jan 09, 2004, 07:01 AM

are we on 1.12?

Ville

Jan 09, 2004, 07:22 AM

Everybody should upgrade to 1.12 AND then to 1.13

zurichuk

Jan 10, 2004, 09:54 AM

Already on 1.13 so...

ok it's good to be able to be a couch potato civ player again

Preview

play with the specialists and change a few to civ engineers / policeman etc, never used them before so it's nice to see that there is indeed a good effect (however i only tend to mm in SG's and in higher level games)

we have 3670 gold, +55 each turn, steel in 6
we have an mpp with Babylon

IT
We lose our supply of wines
I renegotiate dyes and wines for silks and refining with America
We lose our gems
I renegotiate gems for incense and refining (they wanted saltpeter)

Some we love the king days break out

1425AD (1)
Nothing doing - workers railing (nice grouping whoever did that)

1430AD (2)
America and Babylon have Atomic Theory so I may as well sell it to the Aztecs for Espionage
Run science at 100% for a couple of turns to maintain tech lead

1435AD (3)
Pollution rears its ugly head

1440AD (4)
BAbylon wants to renew silks deal, we take it
We discover Steel - Combustion due in 6 turns at 80%

1445AD (5)
Just working

1450AD (6)
More working :( (I see why Ville wanted me to come back in - only kidding)
Babylon and America gain tech parity

1455AD (7)
Battlefield Medicine completed
Our income drops to -77 per turn, scoence to 70%
Sell Spices to the Americans for 19gpt
Aztecs look broke and it seems to be hurting their tech progress :)

1460AD (8)
Working

1465AD (9)
Aztecs destroy one of our privateers
Science to 40%, combustion in 1 (+457gpt!)
Everyone is at tech parity, MPP finishes in 1 turn

1470AD (10)
Combustion completed - radio in 8 at 70% (this can be vetoed)
Arggh - missed a riot in Uskadar
Intelligence Agency completed in Izmit :)
More working

Everyone is down combustion, we have 3881 gold, +70 each turn
The most interesting thing of these turns was the specialists, they really have a noticeable effect, first time I've been this far in the game in C3C, civil engineers for city improvements, policemen for units

Notes to pass on
MPP has finished, but no message confirming this yet
Wall Street is die in 1 turn
Universal Suffrage in 5 turns (cross fingers)
10 turns left on a trade with the Aztecs, 13 with the Babylonians and 17 with the Americans
Good luck!

The corrected link save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1470_AD.SAV) :)

Ville

Jan 10, 2004, 12:26 PM

Link is broken EDIT: It's .net, not .com;)
EDIT2: Got it!

Good trading there:)

DeceasedHorse

Jan 10, 2004, 02:14 PM

The Aztecs have been paying us virtually their entire income for quite awhile; still it's pretty cool that we've been able to out-research and Emperor-level civ that is rather larger than we are. Since tanks are almost here, I think it's probably safe to finally sell saltpeter to the Aztecs if he is still deperate for it.

Ville

Jan 10, 2004, 02:21 PM

I'll see what I can get from Aztecs;)

Ville

Jan 11, 2004, 10:13 AM

Pre-turn
Spend some money upgrading troops.
Aztecs are bankrupted, I can get 5 gold for Saltpeter, maybe not
I sold Combustion to Americans for 53 gold+WM+227gpt
I sold Combustion to Babs for 97 gold+WM+143gpt
Looks like our money troubles are over for next 20 turns:D
And at the same time, gaining huge tech lead by bankrupting AIs
Oh I almost forgot, I sold our WM to Aztecs for 5 gold:D
Research to 100%, Radio in 5 turns and we’re still gaining 52gpt

IBT
I end the MPP (Babs would like to continue)
Ur: Colosseum>Infantry
Sumer: Stock Exchange: Hospital
Umma: Colosseum>Cruiser
Bad-tibira(1st time I wrote it:D): Colosseum>Infantry
Erech: Infantry>Infantry
Zabalam: Factory>Hospital
Der: Wall Street>Hospital (income rises to 91gpt)
Kuara: Stock Exchange>Hospital
OMG Shuruppak completed US:mad:

1475 AD
Moving workers
Change Lagash to Palace (8 turns), there is nothing big enough to change so let’s see if there will be something
Aztecs have won in lottery, they have 49 gold and will also give 12 gold for Saltpeter, it’s a deal

IBT
Agade: Infantry>Infantry
Izmit: Infantry>Infantry
Intombe: Infantry>Courthouse
Akshak: Infantry>Infantry
Cultural Influence expands in some cities

1480 AD
Moving workers

IBT
Ur: Infantry>Infantry
Kish: Destroyer>Cruiser
Bad-city: Infantry>Infantry
Gordium: Bank>Cathedral

1485 AD
Moving workers
Checking trade possibilities

IBT
Edrine: Hospital>Cruiser
Sumer: Hospital>Army
Agade: Infantry>Infantry
Erech: Infantry>Infantry
Izmit: Infantry>Artillery
Sidon: Courthouse>Hospital
Sardis: Aqueduct>Barracks
Susa: Library>Barracks

1490 AD
Babs have Radio already but Americans don’t and we get radio next turn so let’s see
Moving workers
I planted Spy to Aztecs
Aztecs military: (First kinda important thing for ages, Read:15 mins:p)
21 Workers
91 Pikemen
7 Longbowmen
30 Knights
2 Riflemen
5 Cavalry
49 Infantry
1 Artillery
2 Galleys
1 Caravel
11 Galleons
11 Medieval Infantry
7 Trebuchets

IBT
Radio researched>Mass Production (4 turns in 90% research)
Sold Radio to Americans for 49 gold+WM+181gpt
Aztecs don’t have money, how surprising:rolleyes:
Ur: Infantry>Infantry (from now it’s I)
Arbela: Courthouse>Barracks
Umma: Cruiser>Cruiser (CA)
Bad-city: I>I
Uskudar: Marketplace>Bank
Marad: Factory>Hospital

1495 AD
Moving Workers
All others have Ironclads, I feel myself a bit backwards
Now I know what I do with Palace: I build Army from Sumer and use palace to get pentagon immediatly:D

IBT
Zimbabwe: Courthouse>Barracks
Isandhlwana: Temple>Barracks
Agade: I>I
Izmit: Artillery(A)>A
Akshak: I>I
Tyre: University>Bank
Der: Hospital>I
Kutha: Bank>Barracks

1500 AD
Moving workers
Micromanaging Productions in Sumer and Lagash (Army and Palace)

IBT
Ur: I>I
Kish: CA>CA
Bad-city: I>I
Erech: I>I
Zabalam: Hospital>DD

1505 AD
Moving workers

IBT
Gordium: Cathedral>Hospital
Agade: I>I
Izmit: A>A
Isin: Factory>Hospital
Kuara: Hospital>Cathedral

1510 AD
Moving workers

IBT
Mass Production researched>MT (4 turns in 90%)
Sumer: Army>Army
Ur: I>I
Lagash switched from Palace to Pentagon, we’re still losing 512 shields:D)
Lagash: Pentagon>I
Umma: CA>BB
Bad-city: I>I
Der: I>I
Ngome: Courthouse>Library

1515 AD
Moving workers
Sold MP to Babs for 453g+WM+Ironclads+174gpt
Add Units to Armies
Armies:
2 ACs
1 Swordsman
1 Infantry
total=4/4/2 20 HP
real=4,7/5/2

3 Knights
1 Cavalry
total=5/3/3 17 HP
real=5,6/3,8/3

4 Infantry
total=6/10/2 16HP
real=7,5/12,5/2

IBT
Edrine: CA>CA
Agade: I>I
Erech: I>I
Izmit: A>A
Intombe: Courthouse>Bank
Akshak: I>I
Marad: Hospital>Stock Exchange
Kutha: Barracks>University

1520 AD
Moving workers

Notes: We have 4 turn research and we are still gaining 537 gpt[dance]
MT in 3 turns, with this unit production, we can even think invading Babylon:D
We should start to think which victory are we heading to, domination is possible (need to conquer Aztecs and Babs), space race is possible, UN is possible with our reputation, Conquest may be possible, cultural is impossible, histograph is possible but we are 200 points behind Aztecs. That leaves us with: Domination, SS, UN, Conquest.

Bigger, Fatter and too Rich Sumerians (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1520_AD.SAV)

Ville

Jan 12, 2004, 08:42 AM

Bede - Up now
DHorse - On deck
Zurichuk
Hooray
Ville - Just played

Bede

Jan 12, 2004, 03:07 PM

Got it

Play tonight

Ville

Jan 13, 2004, 05:44 AM

Once again, upgrade to newest version which is 1.15

Bede

Jan 13, 2004, 06:52 AM

Played pre upgrade

You guys are a tough act to follow :rolleyes:

All that gold and all that power.

Will point towards peaceful UN victory and avoid entangling alliances. Be nice if Abe and Monte go to war.

Bede tours the empire

Switch builds to cultural/happiness/cash/pop growth where appropriate. Shift citizens around to achieve minimum build times. Spend our cash hoard on improvements but gpt will restore the total by the end of this round
Gems for Incense deal is up for renewal so leave it open for now
Abe can use coal and has money so redirect workers to hook up coal in Province West

IT Wines and dyes deal with Abe expires Will renegotiate when new coal is hooked up Annoyed Monte calls demanding Silks Tell him to stuff it in his pot hat He is disappointed he doen't have the horses to go to war The lux deal expirations start riots in Istanbul,Pasagardae (damn Persians again), Arbela (those damn Persians again again), Iznik (now it's the Turks), Mpondo (the Zulu take thier turn), Zabalam (hey those are our people!!), Sardis (more Persians), Aydin (more Turks), Kissurra (ungrateful wretches), Kuara (Turks again I think) and that's all

T1 1525AD Pollution and jungle clearing
Abe wants Mass Production for his wines if I thrown in silks he'll include Dyes in the package Buy 'em Monte wants silks and Spices for his emeralds Forget it!

IT WLKTD breaks out all over now that our people are drinking wine and wearing coats of many colors

T2 1530AD Workers irrigating marginal shield areas Ce's make food more important than shields in a lot of places Discover armies ahnging around in SE Laod up transport and move 'em out to see aht they can see across the water Remainder move to Cheyenne Mountain N of Ulundi Hire beakerheads or cops or CE's where appropraite to reduce shield overages

IT

T3 1535AD Abe has Flight and cash He'll trade 55gpt for coal Sell 'em and Flight, 70g+64gpt and his WM for tanks Sell 'em
Monte has planes and wants tanks for his gems Forget it! Hammi has flight but doesn't need tanks methinks The diplomatic picture shows no MPPs anywhere Abe has no agreements with Monte but a peace treaty I hope is smouldering around the edges Everybody is annoyed with us and we now have fission so will start UN in Lagash due in 16 and the Manhattan project in Ur in 14 Rocketry is due in six at ~1200gpt

IT

T4 1540 AD Flotilla sailing east Built a couple of airfields in SE for future Air Defense

IT

T5 1545AD Sail and chop

T6 1550AD First two units join tank army Otherwise clean up road and chop

IT

T7 1555AD

IT Aztecs declare on Abe :)

T8 1565AD Examining the map suggests that Miami, Buffalo and Cincinnati are now Aztec cities One could donate Rocketry to the one and Fission to the other just to stir things up a little or Rocketry to both but I think I'll wait it out just a little and see wha happens Hammi will empty his treasury and include Amphib War for Fission. As both the UN and Manhattan Project will complete in next 5 Sell it! The deal gets us to 8253 in hand and 1012 gpt Can you say mass upgrade?

IT

T9 1570AD Mass upgrades bring us down to 3855g and 639gpt but I think all of our army is modern era except for some AC and the Knights and such cruising the coast of the other continent

IT

T10 1575AD Not much going on Do Map deals with the belligerents but it doesn't look like anything has changed

SitRep We have a massive force poised to invade Babylon I think however a diplomatic victory will come more quickly and an invasion will cost us big bucks A few gifts to the warring parties across the ocean just before the UN completes and I think we will have a lock on it

The next big choice is do we go to Democracy for the last of the game? I don't know that the anarchy turns are worth it and if we do get into a war with Hammi keeping the fractious parties in the North and SE from bringing down the government may be tough Monte and Abe are still Democracies as is our neighbor Hammi We have all the prerequisites for the Space Ship if the UN vote is inconclusive and the research and money muscle to pull that off

So I guess it's a pick 'em

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Ville2_1575AD.SAV