HMM1 - French Monarch Sucession Game [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Sir Bugsy

Oct 28, 2003, 01:51 PM

@Reddwarfian
Here's the way it works. I'll play 20 turns and stop at "Click to end turn." It is usually nice to not do any diplomacy on that turn. So I won't. I will save the game at that point and post it. I'll also post a detailed turn log and a link to the save. There is a thread stickied at the top of this section on how to upload stuff. Within 24 hours, you post a "got it" and download the save.

When you open the save you'll do your "pre-turn" work. You'll want to check the cities and make sure they'll managed properly, that they're building what should be built. You'll want to check out the map to see what has changed since the last time you played. One of the cool things about an SG is that you might see something that the previous player didn't. It is one of the things that we can learn from each other. Everyone other than the first player will play 10 turns. Sometimes in the late game you may even play less than ten turns. In ER1 right now we are only playing 5 turns because each turn is taking about 45 minutes to play.

I will keep a copy of notepad open and make notes in there. Then when it comes time to post my turn log, I just copy and paste into this space. That way I don't have to be on-line when I'm playing, and I don't have to worry about the dreaded "Server Capacity is full" message.

I will usually put down most of what I do (at least during the early portion of the game) in the turn log. I will also put down my reasoning behind my decisions. This serves a three-fold purpose. First, the team can see what I did and why I did it. Second, we can discuss any future direction that we think the game should take. And finally, it gives an explanation to the follow-on player when he or she sees something out of the ordinary. Like, "I wonder why these three knights are off over here all by themselves." I will make a copy of the previous two or three players' turn logs so I can go back during the game and say. "Oh, that's right, Hmmm saw some enemy archers run that way and these knights are there to kick their butts when they try to attack us."

You may already know all of this, but it is nice to have some one explain it sometimes. I know a lot of people helped me when I started.

One last thing... remember the Golden Rule. Don't slam a teammate, least ye be slammed back. Criticism is always welcome, but it is usually a good idea to do it in a non-threatening manner. A lot of people will outlaw the :smoke: smilie from their SGs to keep the atmosphere appropriate.

Hope that helps.

Bugs

Reddwarfian

Oct 28, 2003, 05:48 PM

Thanks alot, Bugsy! That did clear a few things up.

Now only if that worked on Mac...Oh well. I type fast.

Oh, and is the :groucho: smiley a :nono:?

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 29, 2003, 02:35 AM

Hello all! If you still have the space available, I wouldn't mind joining this game. I've been a lurker in this forum for a few monthes now, so I figure it's time to try a game, and this looks like a great oppurtunity. The starting position just screams four-turn settler factory to me....and with industrious workers to improve all that terrain.....it's just so yummy :love:

As for experience, I have two Deity wins on my record. One was GOTM 20 and the other was a random game that I recently completed on a map similar to this. So, I'd say I'm fairly comfortable at Monarch.

Hmmmmm

Oct 29, 2003, 04:30 AM

Okay Kaiser you are in at five.

Frollo

Oct 29, 2003, 05:35 AM

100K sounds good to me :)

Good luck Bugsy!

Sir Bugsy

Oct 29, 2003, 09:42 AM

@ Reddwarfian - Personally I like the :groucho: smiley

To all - we lost power last night due to a wind storm. I was unable to start it. I finished up my turns in DI1 and went to eat Mrs. Bugsy's dinner when we lost power. If work isn't too busy, I'll sneak in some turns here. :groucho:

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 29, 2003, 11:37 AM

Alright everyone, let us play our best and let the 'culture' of the snooty musketeer laugh dominate all! :lol:

Sir Bugsy

Oct 29, 2003, 12:28 PM

Turn 1 – 4000 BC – Move the worker to the game tile. Mostly to check out terrain. I realize that ideally I should move to the wheat to irrigate and road it, but I want to see what is to our east. We see plains tile to the east and more river to the north and east. After much study I decide to move our settler NE one tile. My thoughts here are as follows: By settling in place we would have five mountain tiles in our initial 9. Following the cracker formula, the gains we will get by moving will offset the loss of a settled turn.

Turn 2 – 3950 BC – Found Paris – Set to build warrior. 13 of our 21 tiles will have a river commerce bonus. I feel good about the move. Start roading game tile. I will save the forest chop for the granary. A space race check reveals our competion: Iroquois, Japan, India, Persia, Aztecs, Rome, Zulu, China, England, America, and Egypt. Since there are no obvious advantages to be gained researching one tech over another on the trading front. I’ll go for what is best for us… Pottery at 90%, due in 18 turns.

Turns 3 =>4 – 3900 BC=>3850 BC :sleep:
Turn 5 – 3800 BC – Move worker to wheat
Turn 6 – 3750 BC – Warrior=>Warrior. Start irrigating wheat. Start exploring with our warrior, Pierre. Pierre heads west to work the mountain range.
Turn 7 – 3700 BC – Pierre finds the coast. He’ll search out a good Colossus city location.
Turn 8 – 3650 BC – Worker completes irrigation, starts road. City will grow next turn. Pierre moves along mountain chain. We have a mountain range running between us and the sea. Good thing we have industrious workers.
Turn 9 – 3600 BC – City grows, check citizen assignments, everyone is content. Warrior in 2 grow in five. Pierre heading north. He can see a vast jungle to the north of Paris. This will be a challenging start. Thank goodness we have some food at the start.
IBT – Attend a meeting on smoking batteries :(

Turn 10 – 3550 BC - Move worker to forest tile. Pierre following mountains.
Turn 11 – 3500 BC – Warrior=> Warrior This will be the last warrior then I’ll start a granary pre-build. Pierre spots a GH. New warrior, Jean first heads south to look for city sites. Worker starts road. Science bumped to 100% - Pottery now due in 5. Breaking even.
IBT – Boarder expansion.

Turn 12 – 3450 BC – Jean heads south. Disappointing lands. Pierre heads west towards GH.
Turn 13 – 3400 BC – Jean turns east on mountains. Pierre pops hut and the Celts teach us CB [dance]
IBT – Warrior=>Rax(granary pre-build)

Turn 14 – 3350 BC - Plan for new warrior, François – quick scout mission east then back for MP duty. Paris grows so adjust sliders – lux to 10%, science to 80%, Pottery still due in 2. Worker moves to game tile and starts 5 turn forest chop. Jean is following mountains. Pierre is just finding more coast.
Turn 15 – 3300 BC – Pottery due next turn. Science to 70%. Jean sees a wheat SW of Paris (read worker factory) François sees more forest, but there is a fur NE of Paris. Pierre looks to have almost run out of dirt to walk on, but he does spot some incense.
Turn 16 – 3250 BC – Pottery comes in. Start a 40 turn min science on Writing. We may need Map Making if we don’t start running into some other civs soon. Pierre hasn’t run out of dirt. More land to the NW. Jean sees mountains and desert. François sees more mountains. Paris changed to granary, due in 10 turns.

Turn 17 – 3200 BC – More exploring. François is circling around to the north.
Turn 18 – 3150 BC - :sleep: wake up Bugsy!! François spots another fur. Jean sees two wheat in the worker factory site.
Turn 19 – 3100 BC – Worker completes forestry work. Reveals plains tile. Starts irrigating game. Our valiant explorers find….more mountains.
Turn 20 – 3050 BC – Pierre spots a GH. Jean finds some silks.

My original plan was to bring François back for MP duty, but with no contacts, I’ve kept him exploring.

For our settler factory we only have 4 extra food and 3 shields. The game tile will give us the fifth food. We will need to watch our shields. The plains tile across the river will be helpful. You’ll probably need to clear another forest and irrigate it. For those that don’t know we want to have 5 EXTRA food every turn. The shield production needs to be 7 – 7 – 8 – 8. That way the city continues to grow and we get enough shields (30) to build a settler every four turns. We will want the population to start at 5, grow to 7 on the same turn that the settler is built. Pop will drop back to 5 – rinse and repeat. We are not there yet.

Here is our situation:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_-_3050BC.jpg

The green dot will be our colossus city. Red dot grabs the furs. Blue dot is a worker factory. I would say settle Green - Blue - Red, but that may change.

Here's the Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_-_French_Monarch,_3050_BC.SAV)

Sir Bugsy

Oct 29, 2003, 12:37 PM

On further study, we will want blue dot to be one tile north of where I placed it. That way it will be on the river.

Reddwarfian

Oct 29, 2003, 01:11 PM

Are the Colossus city build only that? if so, then we should found the blue city first.

Sweet plan for Paris.

Got it. Mind if I play tonight? Kinda in a hurry.

Sir Bugsy

Oct 29, 2003, 01:48 PM

Don't know if you'll have a settler ready by the end of your ten turns. Hopefully we'll have some contact and more terrain information by the end of your turns. If you can get Bronze Working from anyone, go for it if the price is right.

You can play right now if you wanted.

Reddwarfian

Oct 29, 2003, 03:03 PM

No can do, they don't have Civ3 at school.

Frollo

Oct 30, 2003, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
On further study, we will want blue dot to be one tile north of where I placed it. That way it will be on the river.
That will nicely close our border as well.

Hmmmmm

Oct 30, 2003, 03:03 AM

Nice going Bugsy, I did warn of an interesting start... you dot map looks good and I agree with moving Blue one tile north. It might be worth grabing the silks as well before the furs.

Good luck Reddwarfian (actually do you mind if I call you Red from now on? saves having to copy and paste your name all of the time).

Post got in 24 and play in 48.

Hmmmmm

Oct 30, 2003, 03:04 AM

Play Order
-------------
1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (To Play)
3) zurichuk (On Deck)
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) Hmm
7)

Reddwarfian

Oct 30, 2003, 06:13 AM

Sure, you can call me Red.

On a more frustrating note, my computer's being a [BLEEPITY] [BLEEP], and I can't get the save onto it.

As such, you may have to skip me, and move on to the next player. If you move me to after Kaiser, I would appreciate it.

I would have loved to play, but after 4 hours of trying to figure out the [BLEEP] thing, I think I'm going to bed. I usually don't curse this much when I'm awake, you see.

I'l figure out a better system before I come up again.

Wish me good luck or good thinking on the SAT II's this weekend. You know what they say, "Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good." (This is why I can't play tomorrow)

Oh, and if I come back up on Sunday or before, feel free to skip me.

Hmmmmm

Oct 30, 2003, 06:35 AM

Play Order
-------------
1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian
3) zurichuk (To Play)
4) Frollo (On Deck)
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) Hmm
7)

Got in 24, Play in 48.

Sir Bugsy

Oct 30, 2003, 09:41 AM

Red staying up till 4 AM trying to load the game. Dude you are a better man than me, I would have thrown up my hands and swore at my computer long before that.

Good luck with your SATs. I remember when I first took those... 1977. :( Yeah, I'm old.

Hmmmmm

Oct 30, 2003, 09:44 AM

Hate to say it Bugsy but I was born in 1977 :(

Frollo

Oct 30, 2003, 09:49 AM

I was going to elementary school in 1977!

Anyway, does zurichuk know he's up? I know for sure he was online an hour or two ago. Maybe he forgot to post a "Got it" message.

Sir Bugsy

Oct 30, 2003, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm
Hate to say it Bugsy but I was born in 1977 :(

:lol: I used to get that during my last years in the Navy. There were young sailors who were born AFTER I had put on the uniform. I have found that regardless of one's age they can still be a great teammate.

Tonight the basketball team I play on has a game. Our point guard just turned 60. He won the last game for us with a 3 point jumper at the buzzer. They need a :greybeard: smiley.

zurichuk

Oct 30, 2003, 10:39 AM

ok got it

Sir Bugsy, I don't think you are the oldest on this site ( or even this SG ;) )

zurichuk

Oct 30, 2003, 12:30 PM

Nothing much to check at the beginning so press Enter

3000 BC (1)

Paris expands, move lux to 20%
now decisions, there's pressure in a SG that isn't in a solo game, do I road the forest or irrigate and road the plains, hmmm, starting is not my strong point, catching up is. Decide on the plains as the road will lead out to the furs city.
Pierre pops the goody hut, we learn warrior code.
Francois and Jean explore some more.

2950BC (2)

Pierre, Francois and Jean explore even more, looks like we have space to expand even if the terrain does need alot of work

2900BC (3)

More exploration, no contact

2850BC (4)

Paris creates granary, changes to settler
More lonely exploration

2800BC (5)
Worker finished improving plains, will move to grassland carrying the road to the furs site.
Pierre spots red border
Jean spots goody hut

2750BC (6)
Pierre approaches red border (Romans?)
Francois spots purple border (Iroquois?)
Jean approaches goody hut, spots grey border (Indian?)

2710BC (7)

Pierre climbs mountain, contact with annoyed Japanese worker not Romans as I guessed.
We have Masonry(4), Alphabet(5), Pottery(2) and Warrior Code(3), they have Bronze Working(3) and The Wheel(4), they want Alphabet and Masonry and 24 Gold for them,
Eat dinner and consider what to trade (relative values in brackets for my reference). End up doing nothing, but gamble and wait for contact with other 2 civs next turn.
Jean pops goody hut, get conscript warrior, send back to Paris for MP duty.

2670BC (8)
Contact with India, they have Bronze Working, we have Masonry and Warrior Code
Contact with Iroquois, they have Bronze Working, we have Alphabet
Contact with Japan, no change
Trade Warrior Code and 7 gold for Bronze Working with India.
Trade Masonry and Alphabet for The Wheel and 10 gold with Japan

so we are up Pottery and Warrior Code on the Japanese (cautious, no money)
up Alphabet and the Wheel on the Iroquois (Polite, as always, 10 gold)
up Masonry and the Wheel on the Indians (Polite, as always, 10 gold)

Paris grows, move lux to 30%, we will have a settler, one city and no MP :-(
Blue site has horses.

2630BC (9)

India and Iroquois request we leave.
Settler produced in Paris, changed to Spearman, lux reduced to 10%
No new trades
Move settler towards blue dot, (I prefer the green to hook up the furs but I'm no expert in the starting phase)

2590BC (10)

Move the warriors, the conscript warrior I started to move back towards the cities, maybe also Francois can head back through the black zone, that's to the next person to decide
No trades done, I'll leave that to the next player
Paris grows next turn, watch for rioting (production can also be changed, if required)

We have 108 gold earning 4/turn

Feel I didn't make the best decisions with the worker, moving towards the furs site and then the settler going to the blue site, but with 10% lux and maybe a MP or 2 then the blue site can hopefully grow to 3 or 4 before everything is hooked to luxuries.

Some screenies

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/screenie1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/screenie2.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_2590_BC.SAV)

Sir Bugsy

Oct 30, 2003, 03:08 PM

Good set of turns zurichuk.

A few suggestions:
We will want to work the tiles next to the rivers. Those will give us an extra GPT.

After the worker is done roading the mined grass tile, we'll want to move him to the grass next to the river, irrigate it, then road it.

Remember our goal is to get an extra 5 food per turn and 7-8 shields per turn. We will want our population to grow some more. I'd start cranking out warriors instead of spearmen right now, but that's just me. Ideally, when we get to pop 5 we start a settler. If we are producing an extra 5 food per turn the we will grow to pop 6 in two turns then we want to have 30 shields in the box the turn we will grow to pop 7. If we grow to pop 7, our granary will empty and that will break the trend.

Well done on the trading. :thumbsup:

Frollo - keep exploring!

handy900

Oct 30, 2003, 05:10 PM

FWIW If you plan to go for 100k you will ned a lot of cites. You may want to place your first few cities closer together than the dot map indicates.

zurichuk

Oct 30, 2003, 05:17 PM

thanks, first set of SG turns ever but I've been lurking for months, need to learn this 7/8 settler factory business

does irrigation of a grass tile give any benefit in despotism? i thought it didn't but then again i thought irrigating a bonus didn't either and it does

zurichuk

Oct 30, 2003, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by handy900

FWIW If you plan to go for 100k you will ned a lot of cites. You may want to place your first few cities closer together than the dot map indicates.

i agree, especially in the jungle because popping down a settler gives a free road and clear jungle on the city tile and it looks like we have some work for the workers later :cry:

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 30, 2003, 06:23 PM

does irrigation of a grass tile give any benefit in despotism?

No, just the bonus tiles. It's best to mine all grassland until we get to another government, Republic I assume.

You may want to place your first few cities closer together than the dot map indicates.

As for the cities, a bit closer might be prudent, but it is also plausible to plop down extra cities in between older ones once we have our continent under control. As for right now I think we need to concentrate on building a good production base.

Frollo

Oct 31, 2003, 02:32 AM

@zurichuk: well done! Great trading too.

@Bugsy: sure I'll move the worker next to the river, but why irrigate?

I guess it's up to me to finish the Settler factory, right? I sure hope I won't make any mistakes. I do understand the concept of a settler factory but never managed to make one myself.

I'll check out those two (or three) small puddles of water in the far east. They're probably fresh water lakes (if it's labeled "Coast" but gives 2 food instead of 1, it's fresh water), so that'll make at least two good city spots. But of course I'll settle according to Bugsy's dot map first.

I'll post a "got it" tonight (as in "tonight in Western Europe", which is in about 10 hours), cause I'm at work now.

Hmmmmm

Oct 31, 2003, 03:34 AM

Nice going zurichuk. Frollo, for the settler factory you need to let it grow to size 7 first. Then you will need to micromanage it to ensure that the correct production is done each turn.

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo (To Play)
5) Kaiser_Berger (On Deck)
6) handy900
7) Hmm

Got in 24 play in 48

Frollo

Oct 31, 2003, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm
Frollo, for the settler factory you need to let it grow to size 7 first.
That would be size 5, no?
Start settler @ 5, finish settler @ 7.

Hmmmmm

Oct 31, 2003, 04:12 AM

yeah.. sorry.. but you need to make sure that paris will be 7 when the settler completes.

handy900

Oct 31, 2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm
Hate to say it Bugsy but I was born in 1977 :(

Originally posted by Frollo
was going to elementary school in 1977!

I was in high school in 1977!

handy900

Oct 31, 2003, 08:08 AM

Hmmmmm,

I'll join if there is still room in the game, you can stick me in the roster at any spot you like.

I'm real comfortable @ emporer & below. 0 for 3 @ diety.

Hmmmmm

Oct 31, 2003, 08:10 AM

Ok Handy, your in at 6.

Sir Bugsy

Oct 31, 2003, 09:37 AM

Handy, welcome aboard. Nice to have someone who a bit more "seasoned" like me. :D :lol:

Hmmmmm

Oct 31, 2003, 09:42 AM

Indeed, I think we will be needing it

Sir Bugsy

Oct 31, 2003, 10:11 AM

I wasn't meaning seasoned in the world of civ. I just meant seasoned in the RL world.

In his profile Handy talks about FORTRAN, COBOL, and punch cards. Three things that were near and dear to my heart 25 years ago. I know he's "seasoned." :thumbsup:

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 31, 2003, 11:35 AM

Hehe....1977? At that point in time it was still another 8 years until I even existed :lol:

handy900

Oct 31, 2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Kaiser_Berger
Hehe....1977? At that point in time it was still another 8 years until I even existed :lol:

That was back in the dark ages when strategy games were played on a board and we used dice for a RNG. :lol: My friends & I played alot of Risk, Battle of the Bulge and other board war games. And yes, I really did write programs in college using Fortran on punch cards. And believe it or not, I once owned a PC that had a massive 10 meg hard drive (that's not 10 GB, 10 MB)

But you're never to old to play!:thumbsup:

Sir Bugsy

Oct 31, 2003, 12:29 PM

I loved Risk. And yes, we used to swear at that RNG too :lol:

Or how about a Commodore 64. That's 64K of memory!! We thought that was a lot!! It had 16 different colors!

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 31, 2003, 01:58 PM

Ahhh I may be a relative newbie when compared to you guys, but I do indeed know the trials and tribulations presented by the dice of Risk and other such games......of course when using dice, I could always use the "uhhh, they hit something, reroll!" :lol:

Frollo

Oct 31, 2003, 02:22 PM

Got it!

I'll check back on you guys in a day and a half or so.

Reddwarfian

Oct 31, 2003, 03:22 PM

Ah, Risk.

I was born in '86, and I still play with the old form of RNG.

Plus, it's so much more fun to see your opponent's face as you turn in a set, and swarm over Europe and Africa in one turn.

handy900

Oct 31, 2003, 08:44 PM

Been going back through the turns.

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
... I'd start cranking out warriors instead of spearmen right now, but that's just me. Ideally, when we get to pop 5 we start a settler. Frollo - keep exploring! ...

I agree with Bugsy, lots of warriors for a Swordsman upgrade has worked well for me in the past. Same defense as a spear but 3 times the offense. As a commercial civ we should have the cash for an upgrade.

These are just my ideas, I'm all for the group if we go another direction. It's most important we all agree on our basic strategy to win.

City placement. I usually go for 3 tiles between cities when working on cultual as opposed to 4 tiles, especially with a non industrious civ. Saves time roading and you really don't lose than many tiles until you grow over size 12. Exceptions for lux & resourses of course. Get those asap before the AI. I don't usually play Optimum City Placement anymore unless it's Regent or below. Size of our country is not nearly so critical as production in the form of shields produced & income. We don't plan to win based on country size but culture. It's also ALOT easier to defend a smaller empire as you can move people around easier. OTOH I've been playing mostly AWM (and dominating :goodjob:) lately so this may be coloring my views...

War At monarch I like a good sword war when we build about 16 swords ready for war. Pick a nearby civ & double our empire. To get the # of cities we need for 100k we can rinse & repeat with knights, then cav then tanks. If the group prefers we can do the first war with horsemen, but that has not worked as well for me in the past personally. By the end of 4 wars we should have the cities we need for the 100k waiting game. I've never actually done a solo 100k, I always get bored & win by domination. Did so a 20k win but the end game was a zzzzzzzzzzz.

Diplomacy I usually like to get ROP's with everyone on my continent except the civ I'm going to war with. It's a cheap way to avoid the AI's ganging up on you and does not have the downside of MPP's

Great Library
Are we gonna go for brick by brick or shoot for leaders?
If we try to build both colosus & GL brick by brick we can forget about a sword war I think.

We can discuss war more later, but we ought to get a good agreement on cities with a dot map before we settle too many too far apart.

As Bugsy mentioned, I too 100% support a nice civil discussion of ideas & strategy. Please let's use constructive criticism. No flames, it takes diminishes the fun. But please don't be afraid to question what Handy was thinking we he does something a little unusual.

GO TEAM! :)

Kaiser_Berger

Oct 31, 2003, 09:25 PM

I figure I'll contribute a few of my ideas to the discussion.

City Placement

I agree that a general rule of around 3 spaces is good, with exceptions here and there.

War

With this being a large size map, a sword war could end up being a lengthy affair. Also, since this is vanilla civ, we'll be stuck with swords. Horsemen can get the job done well as long as we have enough, and then we can proceed right to chivalry and knights. Combine a large stack of knights with a few musketeers and we'll have an ideal GA, I think. Of course, these grand plans all depend on what resources we end up having.

On a side note, if/when the RNG god blesses us with a GL, I'm thinking that we should definitaly use him for a FP in conquered territory. Even if it isn't an optimal position, an early FP would be great.

Diplomacy

I ususally don't sign RoP too often, but I don't mind doing it if you guys want to, especially if we can get some gold out of it.

Wonders

While the culture these produce would be nice, I think we should not consider any of them to be necessary yet. Wonders aren't as large of a concern as they would be in a 20K game. It can really tie up our early war effort. The Great Library is 300 or 400 shields, I think. That 300 or 400 shields would equal 10-13 horsemen. It's something to think about. Although, being commercial and having the Colossus is quite nice. Whatever we do build though, be careful that we don't build a commercial and an industrial wonder until we're in Republic.
Despotic GA = Bad

Well, that's my two cents, at least. May the civil strategic discussion continue, it is quite enjoyable :)

handy900

Nov 01, 2003, 12:17 AM

Good points.

1. I forgot this is a large map. I've been playing alot of small maps lately. Your idea is better on a large map. Let's go with horses to Knights to Cav (my personal favorite). Perhaps go with spears that we can upgrade all game long?

2. ROP. As usual in this anv CIV game, it depends on the situation. But my experience has been paying the AI GPT for an ROP is cheaper than a two front war. Military alliances are okay sometimes, but they mean you can't sue for peace for 20 turns. I rarely get into MPP's.

3. Agree on the wonders. I'm up for building none or one, but I've never built 2 early in the game brick by brick. I think it would cripple us.

I too enjoy the strategy sessions. :goodjob:

Warning #1
Handy has been playing Always War games (except for the GOTM)for a couple of months so his thinking may be a little :confused:.

EDIT Warning #2
Handy cannot type very fast & his wish list for Christmas is spell check for the forum. He is often too lazy to type in Word then copy & paste. He will try to do better for the sake of the team.

zurichuk

Nov 01, 2003, 06:55 AM

i'm also up for no early wonders, i probably wouldn't have moved the settler towards the blue site having read the above discussion but never mind, it's monarchy level, we have enough higher level players and we can recover from that

i never give ROP unless i get some advantage from it or unless i'm very small and catching up and am trying to prevent the larger civs from declaring, in any case on a large map at this level, diplomacy could be quite important

i think we have alot of work to do, the start isn't brilliant but the FP idea posted above is something i also normally do and if it works and if the early wars work can give a big enough turbo boost to get to the top of the pile

i agree city placement must be close especially in the difficult areas like jungle that are dependent on alot of worker action, it takes 30+ turns to road and clear a jungle, building a city clears that tile instantly

i like these discussions, it opens minds up to different strategies

anyway already RL has appeared, i fly to zürich, (my previous home for 5 years and the home of my wife) on wednesday for 5 days and while i don't think i will be up by then, i may disappear from discussions for that time (i will take my laptop in case the turns do come round quick though)

and on a lighter note towards Kaiser_Berger, i just showed my wife your signature and she starts singing it :eek:

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 01, 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by zurichuk
and on a lighter note towards Kaiser_Berger, i just showed my wife your signature and she starts singing it :eek:

:lol:

It's an addicting song, thats for sure. I heard it in my German class last year and those lines have been in my sig ever since.

Back on topic, yes, this jungle infested terrain is difficult to start with, but the beauty is it all become beautiful grassland once it's cleared. With a decent stack of industrious workers (and slaves eventually :evil: ), a tile can be cleared and road in 5 turns or so. We should just be thankful our capitol is in the position it is....without that 4-turn settler factory, this game might get bit too "interesting" for any of our liking :lol:

Frollo

Nov 02, 2003, 06:22 AM

Here I am! I missed the past discussion, so I just did what I thought was right. I hope it's not to late to correct any mistakes I may have made.
Anyway, here goes.

Pre-turn:
Everything looks nice and clean. We're 2 techs ahead on all other civs, and no one has more than 20 gold, so there's not much trading to do.
I change production in Paris from spearman to warrior (for cheap MP next turn), then press Enter.

1 (2550 BC)
Paris grows to size 4 and builds warrior, so no lux adjustment needed. Writing in 25 turns and 4 gpt. Paris: warrior (2 turns) (for additional MP at next growth).
All warriors explore, on mountains preferrably for better view:
- Pierre will look for another civ W from Japan. He sees extended boundaries so the Japanese must have at least two cities by now.
- Jean goes to see if there's E from India, but reaches E coast. India can't expand to the E so they may come our way.
- Francois goes to E to see if there's another civ E from Iroquois.
- The conscipt warrior (Louis), not needed now for MP, goes S.
Do some micromanagement so Paris will grow in 3 instead of 4.

IBT:
Iroquois send out a scout close to Francois.

2 (2510 BC)
Worker finishes road > to grass.
Settler arrives at Colossus site. I decided to move him one step NW off Bugsy's green dot, so the Colossus city will have 2 bonus gold in its boundaries instead of 1. It will also have Horses.
Exploring:
- Pierre reaches W coast.
- Jean will go around India to NE.
- Francois goes further NE.
- Louis goes S.
There may still be a civ in the unexplored jungle triangle, but if there is, they won't pose much of a threat.

IBT:
Francois sees about 2 Iroquois warriors running around on their lands.

3 (2470 BC)
Orleans founded > The Colossus (200 turns).
Paris: Warrior > Warrior (2 turns) for MP duty and protection in Orleans.
Lux > 0%. 120 gold, +10 gpt, Writing in 22.
Worker starts mining grass.
Warriors explore. Pierre will look NE from Kyoto to see if there's any other civs.

4 (2430 BC)
Paris grows to 5. Circumstances are not optimal yet for a settler farm. When food is +5, shields are only 4.
Lux > 10%
Warriors explore.

5 (2390 BC)
Louis sees a barbarian warrior moving into a forest square. He'll wait for the barb to come out of the forest before attacking, so he walks S for now.
Other warriors explore.
Paris: warrior > worker (2 turns; grow in 2 turns). Warrior goes to Orleans.
Traded Alphabet for Mysticism with Iroquois. They got 9 gold and are polite now.
Richest civ, apart from us, is India (17 gold).

6 (2350 BC)
Barb warrior moves to hills, so Louis still can't attack.
Francois spots Incense in the desert and sees coast in the N.
Other warriors simply explore.
Worker finishes mine > road.
Some micromanagement in Paris, making 1 entertainer, still keeping both worker and growth in 1 turn. This may affect our final score a bit. Lux > 0%.

IBT:
A barbarian warrior approaches Orleans from the N! Luckily our warrior will be there in time.
Jean sees an Indian warrior coming from the N and another one in the S.

7 (2310 BC)
Paris: worker2 > worker (2 turns). Worker2 moves to forest and will build road to Orleans and to horses.
Barbarian goes back into the forest, so Louis still can't attack. Instead he moves, and spots a barb camp, close to our future worker farm.
Other warriors explore.

IBT:
Another barb N of Orleans!

8 (2270 BC)
Move warrior (turn 5) into Orleans.
Worker2 starts road in forest.
Worker1 finishes road > to plains.
Louis attacks barb camp. Stays conscript but earns 25 g.
Other warriors explore.

IBT:
Warrior in Orleans holds off first barb attack. Doesn't promote though.
Louis is killed by a barb!

9 (2230 BC)
Paris: worker3 > settler (5 turns; growth in 3). Worker3 goes help build road to Orleans.
Worker1 irrigates plains.
Warrior in Orleans fortifies.
Other warriors explore.

IBT:
Orleans is attacked by second barb. We win, no promotion.

10 (2190 BC)
Those damned Indians have plopped down a new city, Madras, pretty close to "our" Silks!
Jeans seems to have reached a dead end (nothing but jungle ahead). He'll try to go through Indian lands to see what's beyond there.
Francois spots river and plains E of the desert.

Afterthoughts:
There's only 7 shields in the box, and no one else has started Colossus yet, so feel free to change production in Orleans if needed.
As a matter of fact, maybe I should've placed Orleans on the gold hill N of it's current location, then immediately start a Temple, so that it'd have 2 grass in it's boundaries instead of 1. Maybe we can abandon it and start anew.

It seems I still don't know how to create a decent settler farm. As far as I can see, Paris is capable of creating a settler every 5 turns instead of 4, wich isn't bad either. But if anyone can do it better, please do!

Some screenies:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/2190_endinfo.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/2190_endmap01.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/2190_endmap02.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/2190_endmap03.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_2190_BC.SAV)

Good luck Kaiser_Berger!

zurichuk

Nov 02, 2003, 11:29 AM

indian territiory looks nice :evil: :mischief: , especially near 'our' silks :mad:

nice set of moves, i have to learn the settler factory also

anyway I can't access the save to have a closer look, can you repost it please
edit - found it in the save folder direct, maybe Netscape is case sensitive or something

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 02, 2003, 11:35 AM

Good set of turns, Frollo. Paris looks to be in good shape, but I'll take a good look at it to make sure. So, here's my "got it". I'll try to play and post my turns ASAP.

Frollo

Nov 02, 2003, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by zurichuk
anyway I can't access the save to have a closer look, can you repost it please
edit - found it in the save folder direct, maybe Netscape is case sensitive or something
The CFC server is case sensitive. I forgot about that :o
I edited my post to fix the link so it's accessible now.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 02, 2003, 05:42 PM

After a quick session this afternoon, my turns are ready for your reading pleasure.

Precheck- All looks good. I decide against disbanding and/or changing production in Orleans. It will max out at size 3, but should be able to pull in 3-4 shields. Should be enough to get the Colossus. If not, we can switch to the GL.

IBT- zzz

Turn 1

Jean moves E
Fracois moves N
Pierre moves N
Worker finishes irrigation, starts road
Worker moves to start road to furs
Worker moves towards Orleans

IBT- zzz

Turn 2

Jean moves E. Coast confirmed. Indians are pinned in.
Francois moves NE
Pierre moves N
Worker moves towards furs
worker moves towrads Orleans
Paris grows. Micromanagement results in growth in 2, settler in 2
Lux--> 20%

IBT- zzz

Turn 3

Jean moves W
Francois moves NE
Pierre move N, spots coast
Worker completes road
Worker starts roading forest
Worker roads Orleans grassland
Orleans grows. Colossus in 95

IBT- Barb spotted SE of Paris

Turn 4

Paris-settler-->settler
Settler moves toward furs
Jean moves W, encounters barb
Francois moves NE
Pierre moves NE
Worker begin raoding plains SW of Paris

IBT- Jean is redlined, but defeats barb. Indian settler pair spotted. 2 barbs S and SE of Paris

Turn 5

Settler moves N
MP warrior "Jacques" moves SW to protect worker.
Jean moves W
Francois moves NE
Pierre moves NE
Orleans worker completes road, starts mine

IBT- Barb moves towards Paris. Pierre encouters Barb warrior.

Turn 6

Pierre moves NE
Francois moves NE
Jean fortifies to heal and impede Inidan settler.
Lyons founded. Lyons starts temple. Worker finishes raod, bringing furs into Paris :cool: Worker then begins chopping forest to speed up temple.
Worker completes road SW of Paris, starts irrigation

IBT- Barb dies attacking Paris. Barb redlines Pierre.

Turn 7

Pierre moves NE
Francois moves E

IBT- 2nd barb dies at the gates of Paris. Barb spotted NE of Orleans

Turn 8

Orleans worker completes mine. Moves inside Orleans.
Jean heals, sent NW
Francois moves SE
Pierre moves NE

IBT- Barb moves towards Orleans, 2nd barb sighted.

Turn 9

Paris-Settler--->Settler
Settler moves towards worker farm site under escort of Jacques
Worker moves to make a road to Orleans
Jean moves NW
Francois moves S
Pierre moves NE

IBT- Barb redlines Orleans warrior. Next one moves in.

Turn 10

Jean moves NW, spots barb camp.
Francois moves S
Pierre moves E, spots barb camp.

Notes

We're up two techs on the Japanese and the Indians. Iroquois have Horseback Riding.
When Paris builds a settler, it must be micromanaged so that it grows to size 6 in two turns. Once it's size 6, it should grow and prodce a settler in 3 turns.

Here are some screenies. I included where I think the next settlers should go. That is, of course, up to debate.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1790-1.jpg

http://www.civfanatic.net/uploads5/HMM1790-2.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1790-3.jpg

Good luck Handy!

Viv le France! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_1790_BC.SAV)

Edit: Sorry for the large screenshot size. I scaled them down, but I of course forgot to cut out the excess white space :crazyeye:

handy900

Nov 02, 2003, 09:08 PM

Got it.
Merci.
Will try to finish all turns tonight, but may stretch into Monday.

handy900

Nov 02, 2003, 10:52 PM

Pre check- 1790 BC
Replace PTW with CIV CD.
Insert ZZ Top in the CD player. :cool:
We have 323 gold and are earning 14 GPT. Going for writing in 6 turns.
We are tech advanced.
We are down Horseback Riding to polite Iroquois. They want 270 gold.
We are up Pottery & Mysticism on the annoyed Japanese, they have 17 gold.
We are up Masonry & Mysticism on the polite Indians. Indians have zero gold
Don’t pull the trigger with the Indians. We may meet someone that will lead to a double swap. We are only 6 turns from writing.
F10 reveals we are playing against these 11 rivals: Japan, Iroquois, India, Persia, Aztecs, Rome, Zulu, China, England, America and Egypt. Odds are we have two more rivals on OUR continent.

The screen shot below reveals zero gold on the hill near the wheat. That always means it is not on the river. If it says 1 gold, it’s considered “on” the river almost always.

I decide not to play until you guys all have a chance to respond to my thoughts.
Below is an “Optimum City” Placement. I usually build cities 3 tiles apart, but this is Monarch & we may gat away with a 4 tile build.

Red Dot. Right click reveals terrain information as zero gold. This hill is not on the river. I recommend we avoid this location because we’ll have to build an aqueduct.

Blue Dot right click reveals 1 gold. This hill is VERY LIKEY on the river. There is only 1 tile overlap with Paris.

Black dot is on a fresh water lake. Nice food + shield potential, especially after railroads. Black dot is on the coast, so we can build ships & a harbor.

Green dot is dead on top of silks. The borders are “post-raze” of Madras. :lol: I usually avoid building a city one tile from the coast, but I’ve learned the hard way it pays to build on top of resources when a rival city is nearby.

Purple dot. Further down the road this may be a good spot. Chops will yield quick temple, library & barracks where we will produce the feared French horsemen. I’m not too worried about the overlap with Orleans since Orleans will not have the citizens to work those mountains. All of Orleans citizens will be fishing.
The Blue, red & purple dots have great food + mountain/hill terrain. These sites have city power- house written all over them.

Build Order thoughts…
The AI usually does not rush to settle Jungle. The AI will move rather quickly on the flood plains and the wheat, as well as the silks & incense. I’ve never lost an Emperor or lower game where I controlled 4 luxuries. If we get the silks & Incense we will have three. Good land pays off in the long run.

If this were a solo game, Handy would build in this order…
1. Blue dot for a worker factory. Irrigate a flood plain & Mine the hill for quick worker production.
2. Incense (off the map to the left). Send a settler over to settle right on top of the incense. Build walls then a temple. The Japanese will likely come after this choke point luxury city very soon.
3. Green dot for the silks. Send a worker to chop for a quick Temple & some culture so we don’t flip to India. India thinks they have the silks locked up. We need to build our city before they get expaned culture borders. We may get lucky & steal the silks since the AI settled Madras. Let’s hope so.

FYI - I'm torn between 2 & 3. The AI may decide for us.

4. Yellow Dot. Wheat, Hills and Mountains, and it’s on a river. Great spot & easy to improve.
5. Purple. Ultimately a nice low corruption River city pumping out loads of shields & gold.
6. Black Dot. By now this in our backyard and the AI will not make it a priority.

We may find a better location than the black dot NW of Lyons.

This would be a great start is we pull it off. We will probably not get all of it, but if we prioritize correctly we may. If we do, watch out. We will be a power to be reckoned with!

Please let me know what you think. I’m not adamant about these choices at all. If there are better plans I will freely admit it and go along. Others may see obvious errors in my thinking. Please point out better options, or a better build order if you see some. I want to win. I’ll wait until Monday night to play if that is okay with the group. These early city choices will have huge impact. Let’s think about it.

EDIT We are looking very good indeed at this point. We have horses and there has to be Iron somewhere in all those hills & mountains. Couple of months ago I won an Emperor game as France with no Iron and no Horses. I was in turtle mode forever it seemed. Japan looks like a good candidate for our first conquest. I'll bet they are on a peninsula. If we can get the choke point with incense, we can then fortify behind walls on a hill & let them impale themselves on our spears. After their first wave they will be a weak foe. Tokyo will make a nice place for our summer forbidden palace. We’ll have to consider an ROP with India to protect our backside.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_1790bc_citychoices.JPG

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 03, 2003, 01:11 AM

Your plan seems fairly sound. I think we can probably get away with the more OCP, especially for our cores. Once we get the continent under control, I think we should really pack the cities itno our non-core areas to bump up our culture production, since those areas are likely to be severly corrupt anyway.

As far as the AI go, I'm not sure if there are any more on our continent. We'll know for sure when we get writing. If the AI is squeezed together on the other continent, we're probably going to end up a good ways behind in tech for a while. Nothing that some crafty trading can't remedy though.

Frollo

Nov 03, 2003, 03:12 AM

This would be my build order:

1. First, let's settle on the Incense in the W. With the choke point under our control, we got Japan practically locked down in their place.
OTOH, settling there may provoke a war we aren't ready for...
2. After that, create the worker farm (blue dot) and build roads to connect the Incense to our trade network.
3. Green dot. This will pretty much lock the Indians out so we can safely expand to yellow and black.
4. Black dot. It's close to the capital and we want some low-corruption cities ASAP.
5. Purple dot. Same reason. Without industrious workers, I'd put purple last on the list.
6. Yellow dot. Least important, because green and blue will close our borders before long.

Of course, this order may change, depending on where Iron appears.

Hmmmmm

Nov 03, 2003, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by Frollo
This would be my build order:

1. First, let's settle on the Incense in the W. With the choke point under our control, we got Japan practically locked down in their place.
OTOH, settling there may provoke a war we aren't ready for...

Check down the right hand side of the contient!! Are those lakes near the 'choke' point salt or fresh?

2. After that, create the worker farm (blue dot) and build roads to connect the Incense to our trade network.

With all of the forests and mountains we will need lots of workers. I very rarely build workers in my games as I tend to take them from other civs. However I am not so sure that we will be ready for an early war in this game.

3. Green dot. This will pretty much lock the Indians out so we can safely expand to yellow and black.

I am not so sure about this dot, I would happily just wait until we take madras from the Indians. But if others want it go for it.

4. Black dot. It's close to the capital and we want some low-corruption cities ASAP.

We could do with another core city fairly soon to pump out our military forces.

Of course, this order may change, depending on where Iron appears.
I guess the appearance of Iron could change this order to ;)

However you would hope that there should be a lot of iron around with all of these mountains.

Hmmmmm

Nov 03, 2003, 06:39 AM

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900 (To Play)
7) Hmm (On Deck)

handy900

Nov 03, 2003, 08:05 AM

I’m scoring the voting similar to golf, lowest score wins. One point for your top priority build, 2 for the next build, etc. So far the voting is as follows with 4 of 7 precincts reporting. HMM abstained on his 5th & 6th choices, which is fine since the best laid plans… well you know. I gave 5.5 to the cities HMM did not mention.

1. Blue dot 6 points (2 firsts 2 seconds) I guess Bugsy, Red or Zur gets to break the tie
2. Incense 6 points (2 firsts 2 seconds)
3. Green dot for the silks. 12 points
4. Yellow Dot. 20 points
5. Purple. 20 points
6. Black Dot. 21 points

Handy’s wife thinks he overanalyzes. Ya think?!?!? :rotfl:

I’m thinking of changing my vote to incense. The more I think about it, the better I like the idea of locking Japan down. With regards to the incense choke point, I can’t tell if that is ocean or one or two big freshwater lakes. I think we should settle regardless. If it’s a lake, no aqueduct needed :goodjob:. If its ocean, then it’s a very important tile indeed as it totally stops Japan's expansion into our jungle. Yes this may induce an early war, which is why I recommend we build walls first in that city. Three spears fortified in a city on a hill with walls is a tough nut for the typical 4 archer AI stack to crack. If we are very very lucky we may get an elite spear on defense that gives us a leader. This has only happened to me once when the RNG was feeling particularly generous. More likely would be using horsemen to attack the AI units to get a couple leaders. If you have not read Sir Plebs article on leader farming, I highly recommend it.

I agree with Kaiser. We'll buy culture in the far out corrupt cities.

I'll play & post tonight.

zurichuk

Nov 03, 2003, 08:58 AM

I'll leave the city debate to you guys, if the choke point is a choke point I would prefer that, however i'm stronger in other areas

I'm almost certain there is another civ on the continent because the Iroquois have lost Niagara Falls, it was in the diplomacy screen from my save, also it is normally the 2nd city they build and is no longer there on the last save posted.

Another possibility is they have already lost their capital and it has moved to Niagara Falls

Now I don't think the Indians or the Japanese could have got them so if not, there must be at least another civ around, this means that the 'choke point' may not be so or there is some more exploring to do around the Iroquois.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 03, 2003, 10:29 AM

Since the worker is the most valuable unit in the game. I'd say go for the blue dot worker factory then Incense.

Reddwarfian

Nov 03, 2003, 11:07 AM

Ditto

handy900

Nov 03, 2003, 12:23 PM

Blue dot wins 4 to 3. Incense is second. Green dot 3rd. Everything else is too many turns away to be considered as set in stone, but for those of you scoring at home, the results are.
Blue
Incense
Green
Yellow & Black in a tie
Purple

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Since the worker is the most valuable unit in the game...

I agree 100% about the value of the workers.

handy900

Nov 03, 2003, 10:51 PM

Away we go...

Pre check- 1790 BC
Replace PTW with CIV
Insert ZZ Top
We have 323 gold and are earning 14 GPT. Going for writing in 6 turns.
We are tech advanced.
We are down Horseback Riding to polite Iroquois. They want 270 gold.
We are up Pottery & Mysticism on the annoyed Japanese, they have 17 gold.
We are up Masonry & Mysticism on the polite Indians. Indians have zero gold
Don’t pull the trigger with the Indians. We may meet someone that will lead to a double swap.
F10 reveals we are playing against these 11 rivals: Japan, Iroquois, India, Persia, Aztecs, Rome, Zulu, China, England, America and Egypt. Odds are we have two more rivals on OUR continent.

The screen shot reveals zero gold on the hill near the wheat. That always means it is not on the river. If it says 1 gold, it’s considered “on” the river almost always.

Turn 1 1750 BC
Orleans defends and kills barbarian
Worker building road done in 5 turns (love that industriousness)
Wake worker & send to road the horses.
Settler & warrior moving towards blue dot
Worker moves onto furs. Will road then chop for the temple.
Pierre (in Japan) retreats to mountain to rest & heal.
Jean (north of Madras) attacks fortified barb on a hill. Wins & gets 25 gold.
Francois (north of the Iroquois) will follow the coast south.
We need 5 extra food for a settler factory. Paris only has 4 extra food per turn. I don’t see a way to a 4-turn settler factory. If someone else does, pleas enlighten me.
I change the Temple in Lyons to a spearman, which will be done in 1 turn so no shields are wasted. We will need this spear to escort the settler to the incense. I don’t like to send out unescorted settlers. We will need Lyons to turn out spears to escort the settlers from Paris. Happiness should no be a problem at monarch. I hate to waste the chop on spearmen, but I really hate to lose an undefended city even more.

Turn 2 1725 BC
Settler moves toward blue dot.
Pierre is healing.
I move a slightly hurt Jean to a hill for a peek.
Francois is to the moving south.
Workers are busy building roads.
No change in techs.
Paris due to grow in 2, Settler due in 2.

Turn 3 1700 BC
Settler arrives at Blue Dot
Jean heals
Pierre heals
Francois south. Notes silks.
Spearman gets to see Paris.

Turn 4 1675 BC
Settler completed in Paris, and the 5 turn (4 extra food) Settler factory gears up again). Spearman & Settler head to Incense. It will take them 9 turns to get there.
Build Rheims on the Blue. Dot after on last check to ensure there is 1 gold tile on this hill. If we have to build an aqueduct I’m going to be bummed. It will take 10 turns to grow to population 2, so I set the build for 2 warriors and then a worker. We will need an escort for out settler due in 5 turns. Our next city will be on top of the silks, so the warrior due in 5 can escort the settler due in 5 to the silks. The spearman due in Lyons can go with the settler after that to yellow or Black. Take your Pick. (I’d go for yellow that is great land)
Jean heads SW so he can stay on the hills to reveal more land.
Francois south. Spots new green borders. (My guess Aztecs or Persia)
Pierre ready to go after barbs again
We steal a worker from Iroquois for only 30 gold. I don’t think they will last long, which is good since I can’t type Iroquois easily. He still wants 270 for HR. Let’s wait.
Still up 2 techs on Japanese and India.

Turn 5 1650 BC
Pierre is attacked. He wins but must heal before stealing gold.
Road to Orleans completed. Send workers to build road to what I hope is our incense.
Jean is still heading SW on the hills.
Just noticed I screwed up big time. Lyons is on furs so I wasted 5 turns building the road when I could have been chopping. Sorry team. This worker retreats to mine the grassland.
Our newly purchased slave is building a road to Rheims.
Francois heading to green border (away from the coast he is going SW).

Turn 6 1625 BC
We get writing. I set max science to Iron Working. Which we will get in 14 turns. I really want to know where the Iron is. I’m do not view myself as a great trader so you can all help me in the area. I probably like Always War games because there is no trading.
Jean goes N on the hills. Worker heads to Rheims to road 7 irrigate. Settler moving to incense.
Fully healed Pierre loses against a barb. RIP.
Worker mining Lyons.
We meet Persia (Niagara Falls is in Persian hands) & steal a worker for 30 gold. Man, they won’t trade you one for less than 110 gold in PTW! Slave sent to Lyons to mine.
We trade Writing to Iroquois for Horseback Writing & get 39 gold (all he has)
We trade Writing to Persia + 50 gold for Iron Working.
Net, for Writing +11 gold (net) we get iron Working & Horseback riding.
We are up in Tech on everyone as follows:
India we are up Masonry, IW, Writing, Mysticism, HRB. Zero gold. Lack 3 communications
Japan we are up Pottery, IW, Writing, Mysticism, HRB. Zero gold.
Persia we are up Writing, Mysticism, HRB. 91 Gold. They don’t know Japan or India
Iroquois we are up no techs, but we have horses & they do not. We also have 367 gold & they have none.
Iron is on the way to the incense, north of Lyons, North of Rheims and best of all, due south of Paris. There is Iron everywhere. This game is very winnable unless we royally screw up!
I set max research to Literature.
One heck of a good turn for the French!

Turn 7
1600 BC
Jean goes NW on the hills. Worker heads to Rheims to road 7 irrigate. Settler moving to incense (5 turns) Will we make it in time? Japan is way behind in tech. Are they at war?
Francois heading south spots a goody hut.
Settler and Warrior due in 2 turns.
Trade HBR to Persia for 85 gold (he has 91 in the vault).

Turn 8
1575 BC
Francois pops 3 barbs from a goody hut. Lyons is undefended, but these guys are pretty far away. We should send one of the warriors being built in Rheims to Lyons.
Jean goes N staying on the hills.
Workers are positioning themselves to road to the silks. India looks very weak in this game. Perhaps they are at war also.
FYI I did not build any embassies yet. I don’t see any rush to road to the Iron at this point.

Turn 9
1550 BC
Francois beats 3 barbs & is now elite. He is heading south.
Parisian Settler heads to the silks. Warrior from Rheims hooks up with him.
Paris is now size 4 & settler due in 6. Pop will grow in 1 turn. Did I slip up somewhere? I was checking each turn before I pressed enter.
Start a chop in Lyons on the river.
Worker & slave building a road to the silks.
Jean goes N on Hills. We really need to explore West of Lyons. We got a little peek from our settler.

Turn 10
1525 BC
Jean goes N on Hills. I’m sure Xerses won’t mind if we cut through his land. :lol: I’d keep him going NW to see what is up there.
Francois heads to a hill for R&R.
Start Chop in Lyons. We want bonus grassland!
Settlers and workers moving toward the silks near Madras.
Looks like we will get the incense next turn. It is unsettled. Use the workers to chop to hurry Walls & a temple.

We are looking good here I think. Big gold and tech lead. Looks like we will hook up 2 more luxuries soon. I like our chances for any victory condition we choose.
We are the only one building a wonder at this time.
I recommend we keep Lyons turning out spearmen. As the city grows, Spearmen production may exceed the settler production out of Paris. If you can chop a quick barracks somehow between settlers that would be great. Vet spears in the border cities helps a lot. Rheims & those wheat are so close to Paris, we may be able to get some settlers out of there also to grab more land. The silk city would be a good place to grow warriors to explore India. But first chop & get the plains irrigated so we can get a temple in the silk city to avoid a flip.

Go HMMMMM!!

hmm1 1525bc (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_1525_BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/hmm1_1525bc.JPG

Frollo

Nov 04, 2003, 02:45 AM

Wow. Those are great turns! Excellent trading, we are the science leader of the known world now!
I pity the Iroquois. They tend to do really well with their UU and take an early lead, but with no horses... Poor sods...

Do you think the Iroquois are at war with Xerxes? Looking at the screenshot, with 2 units within Persian borders, I'd say they are.

Maybe we should settle N of Lyons, if only for Iron denial.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 02:54 AM

2) No worker purchases before 1000BC to avoid civ crippling.

I take it you didn't read the rules then. It can be considered an exploit to be buying workers from civs that completely undervalue them.

Will wait for everyone to check in to see who thinks what. Otherwise it looks like a good set of turns.

As too settler factory you need to check that after the first growth that it will grow and produce settler in the same number of turns.

Frollo

Nov 04, 2003, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm

It can be considered an exploit to be buying workers from civs that completely undervalue them.
Personally, I don't think of this as an exploit. Nor is it cheating, it's not even bending the rules.
The designers simply decided to build in the possibility to exchange workers, so it's a perfectly viable option. (As a matter of fact, I don't even think of RCP as an exploit. My rule of thumb is, if I can do something without modding the game, it's permitted.)

However, by joining this SG, we all more or less implicitely agreed to the rules Hmmmmm pointed out at the beginning of the thread. Therefore, handy900 should not have bought those workers.

I don't suggest handy should redo his moves. I'd say the next player moves the slaves to Paris immediately and give them back to their original owners. Don't trade for them, don't let them finish whatever they're doing. No, give them back instantly.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 03:31 AM

Guess that is one way around it.

It may not be an exploit however it is an oversite by the designers. As Handy pointed out the workers are now far more expensive in PTW. However the civs in Vanilla undervalue their workers and will sell them very cheaply. The result of this for the civ that sells them is that it loses in the race to get added value terrain. A better designed civ would realise the value of having as many workers as possible early in the game and refuse to sell them to you.

So you may take advantage of this if you wish however it will weaken the civs that you buy them from early in the game making your end game far easier.

When playing my own games I do not mind using this to help maximise my score. However in these SG's we are playing to beat the ''AI'' without taking advantages of oversites by the developers.

handy900

Nov 04, 2003, 07:30 AM

Yikes. I did read them but obviously not with very good comprehension. One way to rectify the situation is to gift each worker back to the originating Civ. The team will be out 60 gold total (30 each) as penance for my sin. As least we not had them for very many turns as of yet.

Another option is for me to replay each turn in exact sequence (I kept good notes) except for the purchase of the workers. I can do this tonight when I get home.

I plead guilty of just not paying good attention. I never abuse ROP, break 20 turn deals or any of the other stuff in LKender rules, but I obviously missed the worker purchase one rule. I do often use RCP in solo games so I remembered not to break that rule.

If this has really irritated you feel free to delete me from the team. Like I said, it’s your game and I did break the rules, so you as owner have the right to punish as you see fit. I really am sorry I missed this.

handy900

Nov 04, 2003, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Frollo
Wow. Those are great turns! Excellent trading, we are the science leader of the known world now!
I pity the Iroquois. They tend to do really well with their UU and take an early lead, but with no horses... Poor sods...

Do you think the Iroquois are at war with Xerxes? Looking at the screenshot, with 2 units within Persian borders, I'd say they are.

Maybe we should settle N of Lyons, if only for Iron denial.

Thanks for the compliment on trading. Trading is the weakest aspect of my game. Please point out areas where I can improve my trading skills as I want to get better at this. I will be watching everyone's trades for enlightenment.

I did not witness any Iroquois versus Persian battles, but I do think they are still at war. If not, they were recently. I wonder if the rest of Persia is in the big black spot NW of Lyons, or the other spot NE of Lyons. Either way we need a defender in Lyons.

I'd have to pull up the map to see if the Iroquois have horses in or near their borders that are not yet hooked up. They may be, I don't recall seeing any. I'm 90% sure I recall seeing horses a few tiles east of them near the coast. There is Iron very close to Niagara Falls; I think it may be in their city border. They may be having a hard time hooking it up if they are still at war, and there are definitely no roads yet from Niagara back to Persia.

The Iron denial may be tough to pull off. We need a little more recon before we commit. Given how much Iron is near us, there may be Iron all over the map. Also Niagara has Iron, so we would need to take that city as well for denial.

We are in great shape. If we stay at peace for a while and continue to expand we will be very strong.

I can't help but wonder why Japan is soooo far behind.

Finally - see my post above. I really am sorry I blew the no purchase of worker rules, and apologize to all.

Frollo

Nov 04, 2003, 07:52 AM

'Guilty', 'punish'... What's all this? Dostoyevsky?
Such harsh words! :eek:
I mean, c'mon, it's just a game and it's supposed to be fun!

I sure don't want handy off the team. He did some great moves and is a valuable member. I also doubt it's necessary taking those turns again. That'd be a tedious job and we're doing fine even without those 60 bucks.

I'd say next player just give the workers back and we'll forget about the whole thing, no?

This is just my opinion.
After all, Hmmmmm, it's your game and you're the one to decide.

zurichuk

Nov 04, 2003, 08:03 AM

Well I thought there was great trading and a lovely set of turns which has kept and increased our good start / advantage, I think the Iroqoius are stuffed soon anyway, looks like at the advantage of the Persians, so the Iroquois worker is a very minor exploit anyway. However it is hmmmm's game and I have no objection to just giving them back or to following his decision

still good work though and i'd have you in my team anyday

handy900

Nov 04, 2003, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Frollo
'Guilty', 'punish'... What's all this? Dostoyevsky?
Such harsh words! :eek:
I mean, c'mon, it's just a game and it's supposed to be fun!

I sure don't want handy off the team. He did some great moves and is a valuable member. I also doubt it's necessary taking those turns again. That'd be a tedious job and we're doing fine even without those 60 bucks.

I'd say next player just give the workers back and we'll forget about the whole thing, no?

This is just my opinion.
After all, Hmmmmm, it's your game and you're the one to decide.

Thanks for your kind words! It's not everyday you get to see a forum post where Dostoyevsky is mentioned. Very well done. I do really feel bad about it though. I'm one of those players that never reloads a game, etc. If I made a dumb decision in a game (like roading an extra fur!) , I don't reload the auto save, I just try to play my way out of it. So I do feel bad about breaking a rule.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 04, 2003, 10:54 AM

Workers - I'd say gift them back as soon as we can. It will make us very popular.

Embassies - We need these ASAP. That way we can at least know who's at war with whom.

Dostoyevsky - That is one of the really cool things about this site. :cooool: There are some very cultured, intelligent, well-educated people that fill these forums with their rhetoric. How often do you see a quote in Latin, or from a work of classic literature?

Handy - Great trading!

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 04, 2003, 11:37 AM

Great turns Handy. I think you did just fine in trading. We're definitly in a good position now.

As far as the workers go, I don't think it should be anything too major (I myself almost bought a few during my turns before remembering). I say just give them back and let bygones be bygones.

handy900

Nov 04, 2003, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy

Embassies - We need these ASAP. That way we can at least know who's at war with whom...

Handy - Great trading!

Slow day at work...

Thank you for bringing embassies up. I meant to ask the team about the embassies. I usually do not build in them in solo games until I need an ROP with someone. This is not the result of any strategic thinking; I just like to hoard my cash. If you say buy them I'm all for it.

Don't embassies improve the AI attitude toward us a little?

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 12:29 PM

Okay got it now and now playing, will post back when done.
I shall give the workers back and we shall continue.

1) Shall make my aims to populate dot map
2) Get:
a) Worker Factory
b) Miltary Factory (or two or three ;)
c) Another Settler Factory
3) Embassies.

BTW I am certainly not going to kick anyone of the team. Lets get going... Will be back with you shortly, I am fully armed with a large cup of tea, a pack of cigerettes and a veggie sausage sandwich..

Sir Bugsy

Nov 04, 2003, 12:30 PM

Embassies do improve the AI attitude, and lowers the price of things slightly... IIRC it is a couple of percentage points, not worth the return on investment. The big thing you get is information.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 12:48 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/salamanca.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/persepolis.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/kyoto.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/delhi.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Hiawatha.jpg

Reddwarfian

Nov 04, 2003, 12:51 PM

Bravo Hmmm. Another Tea drinker!

Although the Worker trade was a good move, it was against the rules. I compliment you Handy, however, on your intiative.

Also, my mother is on the warpath at this moment. I am trying to be on my best behavior, but I will probably have to need another day to finish my upcoming turns.

I am keeping track. Great job all!

Sir Bugsy

Nov 04, 2003, 12:58 PM

@ Hmm - Thanks for the screen shots. Great intel. The Iroquois do not have horses and X-man does. I think Hiawatha won't be around very long in this game.

That will create a 800-lb gorilla by the name of Xerxes. We should be careful not to feed him very much more.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 01:42 PM

The year is 1525.
I activate both workers in order to return them.
Build an Embassy with the Inquous, Japan, India and Persia. (see screenies)
Change Production
1) Lyon ->Temple.. use that wood chop
2) Paris -> Warrior to let it recover its size.

Stop Worker near Orleans building road outside borders, he will mine inside border to help with production of our create project the colossus

Click Next

BT
--
Hiawatha asks me to join an alliance against the Persians, I politely decline

Turn 1 (1500)
-------------
Paris completes Warrior, change to settler build in 5 grow in 2
The japanese are building the pyrimads

Send Warrior from Paris to Lyon

Explore a bit

Turn 2 (1475)
-------------
Paris Culture Grows
Worker starts building road to silks
Return Worker to Persia
Warrior arrives in Lyon and fortifies

Turn 3 (1450)
-------------
Build Tours near Incense, Grows in 10 worker in 10.
Can't get four turn settler factory, Handy was right, will try doing pop 6-8

Turn 4 (1425)
-------------
Rhiems builds Warrior -> Warrior Next Turn
Marseilles Is built on Silks. Will build temple in 60, worker is nearly there building road, will then chop wood
Return Worker to Inquous

Turn 5 (1400)
-------------
Wood chop complete near Lyon, Temple now done in 6
Settler Build in Paris to build on black dot.
Horse Babarian appears near Rhiems

Diplo Check
-----------
Iroquois: Same Tech, still don;t know japan or india, no gold
Japan: Down Pottery, Iron Working, Mysticism, HBR, don;t know Iroquois, Indians or Persia.. Will pay 50gld for Pottery, I take it. We get Polite instead of Cautious
India: Down Masonry, Writing, Mysticism, HBR, don;t know Iroquois, Japanese or Persia.. Will pay 17gld for Masonry, I take it.
Persian: Down Writing, Mysticism, Don't know japan or india. Have 11gld.

BT
--
Barb horse attacks, we lose one bar and kill horseman.. no upgrade :(

Turn 6 (1375)
-------------
Movement: not a lot to report

Turn 7 (1350)
-------------
The road to silks is complete.. move worker to chop wood for temple.
Settler and warrior on the way to black spot come accross a barb camp, next to city placement so we will pop it anyway but there are two barbs there so I guess one will attack bt.

BT
--
Barb attacks settler and warrior pair.. no upgrade.
Barb attacks warrior in the distance..

Turn 8 (1325)
-------------
Paris builds spearman, will grow to 6 in 2 turns. so now build warrior in 2.
Will leave spearman in Paris for next player
Mine near Lyon complete: Lyon builds temple in 2.
Exploring warrior pops hut with barbs in :(
Mine near Orleans complete.. worker goes to mine horse square next
ARGHHHH.. Orleans now has zero growth.. Ideas.. Orleans completes Colossus in 33 (although noone else is building colossus at the moment).

BT
--
Warrior in jungle gets attacked by 3 barbs.. gets 2 upgrades to Elite.

Turn 9 (1300)
-------------
Rheims Builds Warrior-> Warrior (leave him there for next player)
Build Chatres on Black Dot.. now building Temple but will leave for next player to change

Turn 10 (1275)
--------------
Paris builds Warrior, now size 6 so will look at settler factory possabilties.
Lyon builds temple.. change production to Spearman

Paris Settler Factory (6 -> 8)
------------------------------
Can get Growth in 2 and Production in 5
Will need population moving from plain working to forest working in 2 turns
Note: Check Lyons and Rhiems cause they keep working Parisian squares that are needed to settler factory

Move Lyon worker towards Chartres to build road out there OR to Rheims to help make landscape better for worker factory.

Now there are spare military (spear and warrior in paris and warrior in Rheims)
Could do plenty more exploring.. whats south west.. whats around Persia and Japan?

BTW the water to the east of Tours is fresh water (2 food) Therefore there must be another land link up to Japan.

Iroquois have built a city near our borders in the mist.

Only wonders being built are us with Colossus and Japan with Pyrimads.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 01:43 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/dot1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/dot2.jpg

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 01:46 PM

1) Sir Bugsy (Up Next)
2) Reddwarfian (On Deck)
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900
7) Hmm

Got in 24 play in 48

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_1275_BC.SAV)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 04, 2003, 01:52 PM

Got it. Will play some time in the next 24 hours.

Hmmmmm

Nov 04, 2003, 01:57 PM

Will check for feedback tomorrow, going to watch manchester united give rangers a good hiding now.. The dot map is just an idea, both will be high growth cities. Blue dot can put some culture pressure on the indias, its always pleasing to watch cities flip to you :P

Could do with as many early temples and cathedrals as possible for that lovely culture in 1000 years.

Lyons should be ready to become a military factory soon once it has a couple more citizins (sp). + I have Rhiems doing the same at the moment but that should be a good worker factory if that terrian gets improved.

Anyways.. shall check up tomorrow to discuss ideas.. good luck Bugsy if you get to play tonight!!

Think the X-Man could be dangerous but he is still a way behind us at the moment.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 04, 2003, 03:16 PM

As long as X-man doesn't have iron, he'll be about as dangerous to us as a cute cuddly little puppy :lol:

zurichuk

Nov 04, 2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Kaiser_Berger
As long as X-man doesn't have iron, he'll be about as dangerous to us as a cute cuddly little puppy :lol:

as long as that puppy doesn't get the chance to grow into an angry Rottweiler i'll be happy :mwaha:

Sir Bugsy

Nov 04, 2003, 04:56 PM

Pre-flight checks – 1275 BC – My how we’ve grown. Good headwork to whoever decided to settle Tours on the land bridge. I don’t remember reading about that but a very good decision. Oh, that's the incense city...nevermind. :blush: MM Paris to grow in 4 turns and produce a settler in 4 turns. Handy and Hmm are right. This isn’t the most ideal location. My apologies to whomever might have struggled trying to get a 4 turn settler factory out of this location. Checking other cities… my, oh my… Marseilles was an aggressive settle. I realize we wanted the lux, but I wonder if Gandhi is going to get a little angry about that. It looks like Madras’s boundaries have already expanded. I don’t think it is a question of if Marseilles will flip, but when. Unfortunately we can’t pop rush the temple, because that might cause it to flip quicker. We probably need to start thinking about going on the warpath against India. Goal number one. Prepare for Reddwarfian to go to war.

Diplo check – nothing much. Everyone is broke and stupid. Karasu once wrote that that was a very poor way to survive in Civ.

Slider check – Lux moves from 20% to 0% keeping everyone happy and making an extra 7 gpt. I keep science where it is…60% and Literature due in 5 turns. I could go to 90% and get it at 4 turns, but at a cost of 32G I decide against that.

Military check – 10 warriors, 2 spears, and 3 workers
Turn goals:
1. Prepare Task Force India… at least 10 swords to take and raze Madras… so that is an extra 4 warriors then an upgrade
2. Settle Hmm’s orange dot.
3. More workers needed… at least one per city.

Check to see where our barracks is… We don’t have a barracks. I change Lyons from a Spear to a Rax. Press enter.

IBT – Nada

Turn 1 – 1250 BC – I will raise the garrison in Marseilles to try an prevent a flip. I’ll move any extra warriors to Lyon to upgrade as soon as the barracks is completed.
I’ll cut a forest outside of Lyon to hurry the Rax build. Lux to 10% due to removal of MPs from Paris.

Diplo – nothing new, although X-man does have 11G now.

IBT – Two barb galleys sail into view. Someone has Map Making. The Indians start the Colossus.

Turn 2 – 1225 BC – Going to bring one of our explorers back home for the Indian campaign.

IBT – Forest outside Marseilles is harvested.
Tours: Worker=> Temple

Turn 3 – 1200 BC – Science to 50% for an extra 2 gpt. Lit due in 2.

IBT - Barb shows up outside of Marseilles.
Paris: Settler=>Settler It will probably be a five turn build.

Turn 4 – 1175 BC – Lux to 0. Science stays the same. Move spear to cover our worker outside Marseilles. Worker outside of Orleans completes mine. Colossus now due in 22.
Move worker to Paris to try and improve our settler factory.

Diplo check – Both Iroquois and India have workers available for sale. I almost did what Handy did and bought them. Then I remembered. Doesn’t any of these civs make their people work?

IBT – A Japanese warrior walks up to Tours to have a look.
Literature comes in. Select Math at min science.

Turn 5 – 1150 BC – Use a warrior in Marseilles to kill the barb at the gates (-1hp)

Diplo – Hiawatha has two workers for sale. There must be Persians at the gates of his city.

IBT – A barb horseman approaches Marseilles.
Rheims: Warrior=> Rax (This can be a military factory)

Turn 6 – 1125 BC – There is only one land bridge to Japan.
I just read Kaiser Burger’s and zurichuk’s posts about the X-man having Iron. He’s got it now. That would be a 800-lb Rottweiller. :o
Lux to 10% since Paris grew. The best we can do is a 5 turn settler factory in Paris.
Move our spear to face the barb horse. The Barb will have to attack across a river.

IBT – Spear wins (-1hp)

Turn 7 – 1100 BC – Incense is now available in Tours.

IBT – Lyons: Rax=>Warrior

Turn 8 – 1075 BC - :sleep:

IBT – Paris: Settler=> Spear ( the forest chop will complete next turn and we don’t want Paris to drop below pop 5.

Turn 9 – 1050 BC – Lux to 0%. Moving new settler south to settle south of horses.

IBT - Nada
Turn 10 – 1025 BC – Found Avignon. Set to build worker due in 10.

Post-turn Report – Settler is heading south of Chartres. I’m not exactly sure where, but that’s where he’s headed. There are barbs down there so escort him. Probably one of the two city sites I marked. However, you’ll need to see what’s there when you get there.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_-_1025_BC.jpg

- There is a warrior south of Chartres doing some pre-settling exploring. I should have done this earlier, but that’s my mistake. We may run out of good city sites soon. If we do I’d just start settling the jungle.

- I presently have Paris MM’ed to grow in three turns to get the spear next time. When it grows, MM it to complete the same turn as the settler. If you mine the grassland that the worker is now roading, we WILL be able to get a 4-turn factory at Paris.

- Lyons is set up to be a military factory. When it grows in 6 turns it will produce a vet warrior every other turn. You will need to go back and mine the grassland.

- With some work, Rheims can be a military factory also. I have a worker over there to start improvements.

- We have three MPs in Marseilles to prevent a flip.

Here's the
>save< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch,_1025_BC.SAV)

handy900

Nov 04, 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
...Also, my mother is on the warpath at this moment...

As you get older Mothers on the warpath are replace by wives on the warpath who are later joined by daughters who will simply DIE if they don't get on AOL IM this moment!

Reddwarfian

Nov 04, 2003, 06:19 PM

Thanks, Bugsy. I got it.

Oh, and I found out that my TI-83+ Calculator's program function is compatable with a Windows text program. That'll save me some time!

Oh, and I'll have at least three workers in close proximity to that iron resource, so we can do a mass upgrade real fast. :groucho: :groucho: :groucho:

Hmmmmm

Nov 05, 2003, 03:21 AM

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (Up Next)
3) zurichuk (On Deck)
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900
7) Hmm

Got in 24 play in 48

Frollo

Nov 05, 2003, 04:40 AM

Great moves, Hmm and Bugsy! We're in fine shape now!

Just a little thought. Let's hook up the Horses S of Chartres and trade/give them to Hiawatha. That may stop the X-man from advancing. (And may get the Iroquois a GA in the process, which is nothing under Despotism.)
Of course, we need a road to Salamanca, so we can only do this if we got a few workers to spare. Which I don't whink will be the case in the near future.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 05, 2003, 10:00 AM

We'd have to build a road through 6 jungle tiles, then 5 grassland tiles. I don't think we could get it completed in time to save Hiawatha. In the meantime it would cripple our own economy.

Good idea if he was a wee bit closer, but 11 tiles with half in jungle... that's tough.

Hmmmmm

Nov 05, 2003, 10:35 AM

Theres actually a city here:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/city.jpg

However its still requires 3 tiles of jungle roading and that city may not yet be hooked up to the capital. I wouldn't say it was a priority until we have a worker factory up and running well.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 05, 2003, 11:15 AM

Since that city will have silks, maybe we should just take it from the Iroquois and save X-man the trouble. :mwaha: :D

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 05, 2003, 11:19 AM

Personally, I think if/when we get the horses hooked up, we keep them for ourselves and build a few horses to compliment our attack force. This will also give us an upgrade option to knights instead of just being stuck with swords. Although, that might not matter, because at this tech pace we might be the only civ to leave the Ancient Age on our continent.

Another quick point I thought of was that Immortals will probably be easier to pick of with horses. Being able to attack from a tile away could be huge against such a strong offensive unit.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 05, 2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Since that city will have silks, maybe we should just take it from the Iroquois and save X-man the trouble. :mwaha: :D

I like your logic Bugsy :lol: :hammer: :evil:

handy900

Nov 05, 2003, 12:21 PM

Good turns. We look pretty good IMHO

How long to get the temple in Marseiles finished?

Sir Bugsy

Nov 05, 2003, 12:31 PM

Handy - 16 turns. I have three MPs there with a pop of 2. Hopefully it won't flip, but Gandhi's city took 3 tiles away and three of the remaining six tiles are under cultural pressure.

Hmmmmm

Nov 06, 2003, 02:55 AM

Personally, I think if/when we get the horses hooked up

We already have one set of horses hooked up.

Reddwarfian

Nov 06, 2003, 07:12 AM

Done. Write up the report this afternoon.

zurichuk

Nov 06, 2003, 12:22 PM

good one, I'll check and pick it up in the morning, should I wait for a discussion before playing?

Hmmmmm

Nov 07, 2003, 04:16 AM

Please post Red your 48 hours are up, if its not there by midday (UK) today (in 1.5 hours) I will skip your turn.

-Hmm.

zurichuk

Nov 07, 2003, 04:41 AM

hmm, just to let you know there is a 775 BC save here (http://www.civfanatics.net/HMM1_French_Monarch_775_BC.SAV) which I picked up this morning. I'm just waiting for the write-up and some discussion (or your decision) before I do anything with it

Hmmmmm

Nov 07, 2003, 04:57 AM

I would like a write up first to see if any decisions are required. I shall give him another hour yet. When would you like to play? If you are waiting to play now then I shall try and hurry him up but if you want to play later on let me know!!

zurichuk

Nov 07, 2003, 05:11 AM

i don't have the problems I'd anticipated, my father in law has set up a laptop for me to use, so I can easily play tomorrow (or even Sunday) at any time. I can't play now anyway as I'm off to visit some friends

Hmmmmm

Nov 07, 2003, 05:23 AM

Okay Red, you are off the hook for now.. Please make sure that you have posted by midnight tonight (UK time). That is 12.5 hours after making this post.

Zurichuk, if Red has not posted by the time you want to play on saturday then please play his moves instead. Only if he has posted his moves play from 775BC.

In the future please adhere to the strict got in 24 and play in 48.

Thanks, Hmm.

Reddwarfian

Nov 07, 2003, 01:46 PM

Boot me, I'm grounded. I'm sorry.

You might as well replay my turns, I royally screwed up Paris.

I did reveal our starting continent, however.

It's up to you guys.

Oh, and I think that you need to chop and mine one more forest to get the 4 turn settler factory. I got one worker on that due north of Paris.

Lessee..

Preturn: Diplo-check. Iroquois are nearly crippled, Japan is Isolated, We can trade luxuries with India (?!?). We are the tech leader (Booyah!)

IBT: Indian settler heads N of nameless city
Paris Spear-Settler
Lyons Warrior-Spear

1000 BC (1): Lyons warrior moves to escort settler to be. Paris warrior chases Steeler, to MP Chartres. Settler moves towards Chartres. More exploration SW. Elite warrior up north loses 2 hp taking out a barb camp.

IBT: Great, barbs on horseback.

975 BC (2): Indian warrior LIIIIIITTLE too close to Lyons. New continent (?) S penninsula S of Paris & Chartres.

IBT: Avignon attacked. No casualties.

950 BC (3): Indian warrior going after Barb camp (whew!). Warrior on Penninsula heads after the horse barb camp.

IBT: Indians take out the camp and Start Pyramids.

925 BC (4): Warrior MP's in Chartres. Warrior to the North heads home.

IBT: Oh, yeah, I was supposed to MM Paris, wasn't I? It's size four now. Merde. Do wealth for 1 turn while it builds pop to 5.

900 BC (5): Worker near paris heads to Rheims. Road to Avignon done, continues it to Chartres. Settler (escorted) follows to Avignon. The aforementioned Indian city is named Calcutta

IBT: Indian warrior closes on Lyons again...
Lyons Spear-Warrior
Paris Waelth-Settler

875 BC (6): More exploration...

850 BC (7): Warrior follows Indian warrior/explorer. Bensacon founded on penninsula. Fishing village/worker farm possibility. Oooh! Hiawatha has Map making! Wants contact with Japan, Literature, our World Map, and 80 g. Knck it down to 60 gold and they throw in their WM.

Trading time! Trade WM's with Japan, get 29g, clearing his treasury. India, offers me a Vegitarian Curry. Go Vegitarians! Clears his treasury too. (Interesting how our WM is more expensive than when I tried to trade them Map Making itself. Wierd)

WE CAN NOW SEE OUR ENTIRE CONTINENT!

IBT: Persia offers TM trade. I already know his, so it is politely declined.

825 BC (8): Settler moves South of Avignon. Barb camp found W of Avignon.

IBT: Paris Riots (DOUBLE MERDE!)
Lyons Warrior-Warrior

800 BC (9): Set Lux to 10% Worker goes to chop N of Paris, because There is no way to set up the 4 turn factory without that mined grassland. Reg warrior redlines dispersing the aforementioned camp.

IBT: Indians moving through Marsaiils (sp?!?) Talk about Agressive settling. Avignon Worker-Worker

775 BC (10): Redlined Warrior moves to intercept Settler. Settler moves into position S of Avignon. Worker N of Paris starts chopping.

Post: If you want to, you may cancel the chopping orders and start them next turn. Feel free to move the settler from it's current position. Somehow I lost the Screenie. Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_775_BC.SAV)

handy900

Nov 07, 2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
Oh, and I think that you need to chop and mine one more forest to get the 4 turn settler factory.

You can’t get a 4 turn settler factory unless you have 5 extra food, and we only have 4. After any chop the grass will only yield 2 food in despotism. We'll never get to a 4 turn in Paris, but we are doing okay expansion & tech wise.

[i]Originally posted by Reddwarfian Paris Spear-Settler…Oh, yeah, I was supposed to MM Paris, wasn't I? It's size four now. Merde. Do wealth for 1 turn while it builds pop to 5.

This is a new strategy to me. I usually build setter / spear / settler/ spear in a city that drops too fast in population from settler production (too many shields, not enough food) Since Red’s sort of out of pocket, can one of you other guys explain the rational to me. Thanks.

It will be okay if the Indian settles to the south of us, let them build a city for us. Hope Ghandi has a good dot map for city placement ;)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 07, 2003, 05:30 PM

@ Handy - That's a new one on me. I won't go for wealth until the very end of the game, if there is nothing left to build.

zurichuk

Nov 08, 2003, 03:53 AM

ok this is the definitive 'I've got it', I won't replay the turns

edit, sorry Reddwarfian, I have to replay the turns, the save is not a valid one, also sorry about the grounding, it will soon pass i'm sure

zurichuk

Nov 08, 2003, 03:59 PM

OK I cannot get the 775 file to load so I have replayed. Apologies to Reddwarfian. I would have preferred to continue but I guess we must get moving, better luck next go.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

We have 8 cities.

Iroquois - we are average - 4 cities - no horses - don't know the Japanese
Japan - we are weak - 7 cities - no horses - only knows us on our continent
India - we are weak - 8 cities - no horses - don't know the Japanese or the Persians
Persia - we are weak - 6 cities - have iron and horses - don't know the Japanese or the Indians

going for mathematics - 35 turns - 636 gold at 34 gold per turn
158 culture - 199842 to go :-)

we are technologically advanced

strategy. keep exploring, prepare for upgrade to swordsman, expansion

mm Marseilles for a few turns at a shortage to speed up temple
mm Paris to save a wasted shield and to bring up to size 6 quicker

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1000BC (1)

Paris - Spearman - Settler - mm
Lyons - Warrior - Warrior - mm to produce warriors in 2 at expense of slightly slower growth
my reasoning - this has the barracks - this is where the swordsman will be upgraded and who knows what might happen
warrior in north kills barb camp, down to 2hp
start road from Tours to core.

975BC (2)

mm Paris
barbarian horse prepares to strike Avignon, preventing me from roading to there, irrigate instead
No change in diplomacy

950BC (3)

Lyons - warrior - warrior
Avignon survives barb
rest warrior in north
move settler and escorting warrior towards suspected barb camp area and suggested city site (Sir Bugsys screenshot)
No change in diplomacy

IT
Jaipur built by the Indians NW of culturally challenged city Marseilles, easy target for us, surrounded by mountains
Indians are building the Pyramids
Madras drops to size 1 (? worker or settler? )

925BC (4)
worker can now continue road to Avignon
Continue moving escorted settler, find barb camp SE of Avignon
Iroqouis now have map-making. Don't trade this turn, price way too high

IT
Escorted settler comes out of Madras
Paris produces settler - settler
Lyons - warrior - warrior
More improvements around Rheims
Barb camp destroyed near Avignon - warrior loses 1hp

900 BC (5) Maybe some strange trading coming up but Hiawatha wants way too much for Map-making, however I want the world map to see if there is anywhere good for the free settler so I trade him Contact with the Japanese for his WM and 20 gold.
Backfires, no really good sites become visible
OK I want to hook up iron so i'm going to use the settler to save some roading time and build between Orleans and Tours (criticism welcome for this decision)
Trade Map-making for Literature and 200 Gold, expensive but I want Japanese and Indian WM's and everyone else has Literature anyway. Get 70 Gold back by trading WM's with Indians and Japanese.

IT
Iroquois and Persia sign a peace treaty
Indian settler walks into Marseilles territory

875BC (6)
Nothing doing this turn
Settler in position S of Avignon
Rest damaged warrior
Get 21 Gold from Hiawatha for WM, 37 from Xman and a couple from the others

850BC (7)
Lyons - warrior -warrior
Besancon founded S of Avignon, was best position for borders.
Paris - growth in 3 - settler in 3
Get some gold for WM's

IT
Persians are building the Colossus

825BC (8)
Roading started to Besancon and Chartres
Worker starts to road iron and another the hill near Orleans, hopefully we plop the settler down and instant extra city and iron
No diplomacy

IT
Nothing

800BC (9)
Lyons - warrior - warrior (now 6 awaiting upgrade)
Play with the Indian escorted settler near Avignon with warrior,making it go round
mm Marseilles to stop starvation, however temple now due in only 3 turns
Chartres will riot next turn and until roaded so science specialist created and tax research set to 0%, mathematics in 26 turns

IT
Still playing with Indian settler

775BC (10)
Paris - settler -settler
Avignon - worker - worker
Rouen built between Orleans and Tours, when workers have finished, instant iron for all

Hiawatha has traded something now has 43 gold (get 1 for WM), trade WM's with others for more gold

--------------------------------------------

Points for next player
I have not moved the new settler yet, that is now for you to decide (good luck)
Science rate is 0 due to scientist in Chartres (once road is finished though it will have furs)
Plenty of vet warriors awaiting upgrade in Lyons if and when necessary.

I've just looked through Reddwarfians turns and I don't really think we did alot different, it's a shame about the save

--------------------------------------------

Final position

We have 10 cities.

Iroquois - we have average military - 4 cities - no horses - knows everyone
Japan - we are average - 8 cities - no horses - don't know the Indians or the Persians
India - we are average - 10 cities - no horses - don't know the Japanese
Persia - we are weak - 7 cities - have iron and horses - don't know the Japanese

i guess if and when we upgrade we become 'strong'

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_775_BC.SAV)

zurichuk

Nov 08, 2003, 04:01 PM

screenshot

Frollo

Nov 08, 2003, 05:49 PM

Got it!

handy900

Nov 08, 2003, 07:31 PM

Looks like we could use a couple of Paris susburbs for some low corruption.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 09, 2003, 03:37 PM

Good choice for Rouen. Let's explore west of Besancon.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 09, 2003, 08:38 PM

I'd say we should plop maybe two more cities NW of Paris and one N of Rouen. After that, I think we have to switch to a war-time mentality, as we're starting to get squeezed in a bit.

handy900

Nov 09, 2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Kaiser_Berger
I'd say we should plop maybe two more cities NW of Paris and one N of Rouen. After that, I think we have to switch to a war-time mentality, as we're starting to get squeezed in a bit.

I agree, but we should finish exploring the south first. Who knows what we might find.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 10, 2003, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by handy900

I agree, but we should finish exploring the south first. Who knows what we might find.

Indeed. We should send a warrior there ASAP. I've had many an occasion where I've missed large chunks of land due to small ithmus like areas such as we have.

Frollo

Nov 10, 2003, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by Kaiser_Berger
I'd say we should plop maybe two more cities NW of Paris and one N of Rouen.
Done that. Even without reading your suggestion. It just seemed the most natural thing to do.

Orignially posted by handy900
I agree, but we should finish exploring the south first. Who knows what we might find.
I didn't think it was an interesting piece of land, but I will send a warrior out.

I'll finish my turns in 12 hours or so and post the save.

Hmmmmm

Nov 10, 2003, 02:29 AM

Nice going guys :)

Frollo

Nov 10, 2003, 02:44 AM

Question. Where is the Indian Iron?

In order to make the upcoming war with India going more smoothly, I wanted to see where their Iron resources are.

Fact one. India has spearmen. So they must have Bronze Working.
Fact two. In the trade screen, Iron Working doesn't show up on the right pane. So they must have discovered it already.
Fact three. I can't sell them Iron. It doesn't show up on our side of the trade screen. So they must either have it themselves or trade for it.
Fact four. I bought their territory map, but can't see any Iron.
Fact five. They have no road to anyone but us. So they can't be buying Iron from someone else.

Now where does Ghandi hide his Iron? I checked with Ctrl+Alt+M but I just can't seem to find it.

Anyone?

Hmmmmm

Nov 10, 2003, 02:52 AM

Hmm, look harder I would say.. remember that the AI usually builds cities on top of resources to stop you doing resource denial.
If hes trading for it then the best you can do is to try and cut off his trade links.
When I go to war I like to cut off his capital city completely, this stops everything from being distributed around his empire :P

handy900

Nov 10, 2003, 11:43 AM

CTRL+ATL+M clears the whole territory map, so it would have displayed the iron if it was under a city. You already did that.

Fact three. I can't sell them Iron. It doesn't show up on our side of the trade screen. So they must either have it themselves or trade for it.

Does Gahndi have a harbor somewhere he is using to trade for iron with another civ?

If Ghandi had a colony outside of his territory, it would not show on his territory map. You'd need his world map to see that area.

Just guessing on my next idea...as I've said trading is my weakest skill. Don't know the intimate detail workings of the advisor screen.
Do we have 2 sources of Iron hooked up? If we have only 1 hooked up, perhaps we don't see any ability to trade iron since we don't have any extra.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 10, 2003, 11:54 AM

No, that wouldn't be it. We could see a "Iron(0 extra)" in our resources section. I'm thinking he's got to have a colony somewhere.

handy900

Nov 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

Yeah, it's probably a colony somewhere. Thanks for schooling me on the advisor screen. Now that you mention it, I remember seeing "(0 extra)" in the screen in the past for lux & resource.

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
No, that wouldn't be it. We could see a "Iron(0 extra)" in our resources section. I'm thinking he's got to have a colony somewhere.

Frollo

Nov 10, 2003, 01:35 PM

Guys, please forget about the whole Iron thing. The reason it didn't show up on our side of the table, was because we hadn't hooked it up ourselves yet! :rolleyes:
Now that's what I call a newbie mistake! :D

Anyway, I'm going to post my turns now.

Frollo

Nov 10, 2003, 01:42 PM

Preturn (775 BC)
Everything looks fine.

Change specialist in Chartres from scientist to taxman for +1 extra gpt and no science decrease.
Diplo: Hiawatha is trying Mr Nice Guy approach, signing RoPs with Japan and India. Let's keep a eye on those three, they may conspire to take our riches.
On check, Hia wants to sign a RoP with us too, for free. I accept. Hopefully, now he won't dare to take a stand when we attack India.

Has anyone ever wondered what's going on in Madras? I did. For only 12 gold I got to investigate the city. A temple has cumulated 54 culture already. Our temple in Marseilles due in 2 turns. Even if we finish the temple, and pop-rush a library later, it will take about 20 turns to catch up and reach the 100 culture threshold before them, claiming more tiles. Marseilles will be assimilated by then.
I think Marseilles is better off serving as a worker farm. We want it to stay small, cause we may have to recapture it soon. The three floodplains need some work, but will make Marseilles an excellent worker farm.
So I let Marseilles continue temple (2 turns) and will build workers next.

Yes, the settler in Paris… We ran out of good land. There's all jungle, hills and forest now. I decide to settle N from Lyons, next to Iroquois city Allegheny. There's a good chance of culture assimilating it, getting us 3 extra Silks.

Turn 1 (750 BC)
'The Iroquois are building The Oracle.'
Lyons: warrior > warrior (2 turns). New warrior will accompany settler from Paris.
Rheims: Barracks > warrior (3 turns).
I suspect pesky Indan settler+spear want to settle near Besancon and Avignon. Indian culture is too good to get that close, so I send out warriors to cut the settler off.
Diplo: Ghandi don't need Iron, that is, it doesn't show up on our half of the trade table. May have Swords already or are at least able to build them. I buy Ghandi's t.t.map for 10 gold so we can see where their Iron is. But… there is no Iron in India. They can only trade with us, so I don't understand where the iron is coming from.
(Looking back the next day, I see I made a mistake on this one. I forgot we don't have Iron ourselves until turn 3. That's why Iron didn't show up on our side of the trade table! How stupid! :o A least we got their map now.)
Change Besancon from warrior to spear (16 turns). The chop will help building spear.
Workers: 1 build road to Chartres, 1 mine gold hill near Orleans (Colussus due in 5), 1 forest chop near Besancon to help build spear.
Elite warrior in mountains heads back to Lyons. Another elite warrior returns to Rouen.

IBT
Persians want to exchange world map. I refuse.

Turn 2 (730 BC)
Marseilles: temple > worker (5 turns).
Worker irrigate wheat plains near Avignon.

IBT
Ghandi wants audience. Go ahead. Wants to exchange t.t.map. Sorry, wise Mahatma, not today.

Turn 3 (710 BC)
Lyons: warrior > spearman (4 turns). We need some defense too. And we want to send as much swords into battle as possible. New warrior fortifies.
Cutting the settler off didn't work. Indian city Chittagong is founded, uncomfortably close to Avignon and Besancon.
We got iron hooked up. I upgrade all 8 non-elite warriors in Lyons and Rheims to sword for 320 gold.
Incense been hooked up. Lux slider can even stay longer on 0% now.
Worker near Rouen goes clear jungle.

Turn 4 (690 BC)
Paris: settler > sword (5 turns). Settler goes to jungle NW of Paris, NE of Orleans. It doesn't really matter where we put our new cities now. We need culture and we need it fast!
Change warrior in Rouen to worker (6 turns). We need to improve the jungle quickly to make Rouen productive.
Production in Avignon changed from worker to temple (56 turns).
Warrior in Paris goes to Rheims for upgrade. All 5 swords in Lyons go to Marseilles.
Grenoble founded N of Lyons, E of Iroquois city Allegheny. Production set to worker (10 turns).
Worker near Avignon builds road to Chartres.

Turn 5 (670 BC)
Rheims: warrior > temple (20 turns). Upgrade warrior to sword.
Upgrade another warrior.

Turn 6 (650 BC)
Worker finishes chop. Spear in Besancon now due in 1. Worker build road.
Another worker mine grass.
Orleans: Colossus > harbor (16 turns).
Colussus gives us only 2 extra gpt, but this will get better once we're out of Despotism and got both gold hills mined.
Indians are now building Lighthouse. Persians build Pyramids.
Settler arrives at new city spot -- unescorted. I take spear from Paris and send it over. Settler founds Dijon > temple (20 turns).

Turn 7 (630 BC)
Lyons: spear > library (20 turns). We got to work on our culture. After all, we're aiming for 100K. New spear goes to Grenoble.
Besancon: spear > temple (30 turns). Warrior in Besancon goes to Rheims for upgrade. New spear goes to Chartres to fortify (there may be barbs S).
Warrior in Chartres goes exploring S.
Workers: 1 mine grass near Chartres, 1 irrigate plains near Chartres.
Everyone is behind in tech. We have 877 gold and make +48 gpt. I raise science to 70% (mathematics due 5 turns, +12 gpt). After all, why save that much money when we can't cash-rush and can't buy techs?

Turn 8 (610 BC)
Workers: 1 finishes mining gold hill near Orleans. Build road. 1 irrigate plains near Besancon.

Turn 9 (590 BC)
Paris: sword > temple (9 turns). Sword goes to Marseilles.
We don't have MP in Paris now. I don't want to raise lux slider for just one city, so I make a specialist (tax). Mm Paris so it will grow in 10.
Orleans expands borders.
'The Zulu city of Zimbabwe completes The Oracle.'
Workers: 1 irrigate plains near Besancon, 1 chop forest near Avignon to help build temple.
Spear in Chartres goes to Avignon.
The mysterious and much discussed piece of land SW of Chartres appears to be a peninsula after all. But there's land on the other side. Whether an island or another continent, it looks promising and seems unhabited.
So I change Chartres from temple to galley (1 turn).
In the meantime, we got 10 swords sitting at the Indian border near Marseilles, and more warriors to be upgraded. We got a strong miltary compared to everyone. We are pretty much stuck between the jungle and the sea. And top of all, Ghandi refuses to give us 30 gold. So I decide to declare war! 7 swords cross the border, while 3 stay in the neigbourhood in case there's trouble.

Turn 10 (570 BC)
Marseilles: worker > worker (10 turns). Worker irrigate flood plain near Marseilles.
Chartres: galley > temple (30 turns). Galley explores.
Rouen: worker > spear (20). There may still be barbs in the jungle. Worker clear jungle.
'The Iroquois are building The Great Library.'
Hurry temple in Rheims, dropping it to size 3 from 6.
Hurry temple in Paris, dropping it to size 3 from 6.
Upgrade another warrior in Rheims.
Worker build road near Chartres.
Japan and Iroquois are still Polite. Xerxes is Cautious. And Ghandi, well…
We capture Madras with no losses. Only one sword gets redlined.
I decide not to raze it. Its location is not ideal, too close to Marseilles, but razing it will cause us a attitude hit.
Madras: worker (10 turns).

Final diplo check: Iroquois and Persia all of the sudden have Philosophy! Let the next player trade. Japan is still 2 techs behind.

Next player:
It's quite possible to take Delhi and a few other cities before sueing for peace. We won't get much out of the negotiations, the Indians being far behind and all, so I won't mind finishing them off completely. Although it may be better to stop the Iroquois from building GL.

Final screen:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_570_BC.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_570_BC.SAV)

Good luck! And sorry 'bout the Iron thingie.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 10, 2003, 01:55 PM

Nice playing Frollo!!

Let's grab the southern Indian cities. Auto-raze Chittagong, and do some pointy-stick research at the peace table!

handy900

Nov 10, 2003, 02:33 PM

Very nice. That looks to be an island to the south. May we'll get lucky and there will be some lux's.

Nice call on the Indian War. Let's shore up the defenses @ the Japanese choke point with walls & spears and take the civs on our continent to the wood shed.

Look at all those size 1 Indian cities. Sure would be nice not to have to rebuild all of them.

How many Iron does Persia have. I remember there is one next to Niagara Falls, and there is probably another one up north inside Persia. I hate war with Immortals. Much prefer to take them on after we get chivaly.

Should we consider signing an ROP with Persia and try to buy an embargo so Persia does not ally against us?

Battle PlansComments welcome. I love this part. Suggest we wipe India & Iroqoius off our side of the continent, then do Japan, then come back for Persia last after we can effectively combat the Immortals. If Iroquois have no horse they should go fairly quietly.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 10, 2003, 02:41 PM

Well done Frollo! Got it, will play and post by the end of the day, I hope.

:mwaha:

I'm afraid vegetarian curry is about to go out of style :mischief:

zurichuk

Nov 10, 2003, 02:47 PM

Nice set of turns Frollo, very enjoyable game this

I say let the Iroquois build the GL and then we pinch it (however we have no idea on how the civs on the other continents are doing, so maybe that's not such a hot idea)

Also at what stage do we stop building swordsmen and start building horsemen for upgrade? ie how many

handy900

Nov 10, 2003, 04:40 PM

I'd need to see the save, but first instinct on monarch is to beat him with Horses & the swords we have I think, perhaps a few more swords.

We must keep Persia out of this fight with an ROP / Trade Embargo. I'd prefer we did not have Persia in an alliance as I don't want to feed them any cities lest they grow that much stronger. If Persia allies against us that would truly stink.

If we sign ROP's with Japan, Iroquois and Persia they will likely stay out of the war given our strength rating. In 20 turns when the ROP's expire we can decide who the next victim will be.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 10, 2003, 05:28 PM

Had some free time this afternoon, so I decided to play quick and keep things moving along.

Preturn- Move two extra warriors from Marseille to Rheims for upgrade. Will take elite warrior along on offensive for chance at a GL. Change Madras from worker to spear.

IBT- Indian archer approaches. Resistance in Madras crushed

Turn 1 (550 BC) - Paris completes temple --> Barracks
Rheims completes temple--> Granary
Move elite warrior into position to attack Indian archer
Move some swords towards Bangalore.
Moves warrior onto galley, move south. Iron spotted on southern island
Move a few swords towards Jaipur.
Crap- Iroquois get Math one turn before us. Buy it for 28 gold. Trade Math to Persia for Philosophy, WM and 26 gold.
Set research to Code of Laws. 80% due in 8 turns. +3 gpt.

IBT- Indian archer attacks and kills one of our swords, but is redlined.
Iroquois request audience. They want to trade WM. Nein Danke.

Turn 2 (530 BC)

Attack across river with elite warrior to kill Indian archer. No leader.
Move stack of 5 swords towards Bangalore.
Mves some swords towards Jaipur
Upgrade another warrior.
Move galley further south and unload warrior. Lots of good land.

IBT- Indian warrior spotted N of Lyons

Turn 3 (510 BC)

Move stack next to Bangalore, capturing a worker.
Upgrade two more warriors
Warrior explores further on island. Galley spots another island SW.

IBT- Indain archer attack but only redlines one of our swords. Paris riots. Ooops :smoke: Up luxuries. Running -2gpt deficit.
Grenoble builds worker-> temple
Persians are building Great Library

Turn 4 (490 BC)
1st sword attacks Jaipur. Loses 1 hp
2nd sword redlines, promotes, and razes Jaipur

1st sword attacks Bangalore, kills spear losing no hp
2nd sword redlines spear, but dies
Take a risk, and send elite warrior against redlined spear. Dies and spear promotes. Ouch.
3rd sword loses one hp but finishes job, capturing Bangalore.
Explore further with warrior, go further with galley.

IBT- zzz

Turn 5 (470 BC)

Move sword out of Madras and kill exposed Indian archer
Moves swords towards Calcutta
Explore further south

IBT- Resistance in Bangalore ends. Iroquois are building Pyramids.

Turn 6 (450 BC)

Move stack of swords next to Calcutta
Galley spots yet another island

IBT- zzz

Turn 7 (430 BC)

Give Paris a tax collector to prevent riot.

Sword attacks and razes Chittagong

1st sword attacks Calcutta, is redlined, promoted
2nd sword dies, spear promotes
3rd sword promotes, razes Calcutta

Sword attacks Indian archer, promotes
Leave one sword in Bangalore, take other three towards Kolhapur
Reduce research to reap max gpt

IBT- Code of Laws discovered. Set Research to Republic (18turns)

Turn 8 (410 BC)

Attack warrior on mountain with elite sword. Wins, no leader.

IBT- English city of London completes Pyramids.

I spot THIS north of our territory.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1.JPG

Paris completes barracks-> settler

Turn 9 (390 BC)

Elite sword attacks archer. No leader.
Move swords towards Kolhapur.

IBT- zzz

Turn 10 (370 BC)

Sword attacks and kills Warrior.
Move more swords into position around Kolhapur.

Thoughts

We have the forces to sustain the attack for a little longer, perhaps enough to take Delhi, maybe not. Once the Library is done in Lyons, it should probably be dedicated to pumping out horses.

Have fun with Kolhapur Handy, it's set up quite nicely :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM2.jpg

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_370_BC.SAV)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 10, 2003, 05:49 PM

Kaiser - Great war mongering :goodjob:

Gandhi is definitely crippled now. I would keep the war going until he'll give at least a city (Jaipur), gold and some techs.

We need some settlers to back fill the destroyed cities, and some galleys to send some settler pairs overseas.

In the early part of the game we should have at least 10% of our cities working on a cultural build of some sort. Good to see three temples being built.

We need to temper that with military. Since there are immortals running around the countryside and the X-man has an aggressive streak a mile wide, we want to be at least average to Persia. Preferably strong.

Frollo

Nov 11, 2003, 02:54 AM

Good job on Bangalore, Kaiser!

Yes, we must build horses and/or play very nice with Persia now. Iroquois make a lousy buffer.

I think whe should abandon either Madras or Marseilles and resettle a few tiles NW from there.

And it's time to discuss the placement of the Forbidden City. Delhi would be nice, lying in the middle of fertile lands crossed by a few rivers and abundant with luxuries. That section of our empire can be a great economical powerhouse! We must get a GL of course.

Hmmmmm

Nov 11, 2003, 03:47 AM

We're looking good guys.. good work :)

I am pleased you haven't abandoned anywhere and I don't think we should be doing so either, each city equals more culture.

Lets try and wipe out the indians and the inquious. The persians will leave us alone once we are way bigger than them.

We are going to have to start thinking about were we want our FP. Any Ideas? Somewhere with lots of Iron would be good incase we get a Iron Works city near there.

For now our priority should be to make india a part of france, make peace when Ghandi is willing to give you several useful cities.

If we go get any spare settlers then there is still the south west penensula to inhabit.

Getting all of india will give us a slightly more defendable border, if you just take there southern cities then our border will be a nightmare to defend.

Hmmmmm

Nov 11, 2003, 03:49 AM

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900 (Up Next)
7) Hmm (On Deck)

Got in 24 play in 48.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 07:53 AM

Got it Nov 11 03

Will play today. Tech question from a non-tech guy.

I was playing PTW solo last night & left the disk in. When I downloaded the French SG it opened into PTW. Just to be safe, I'll switch the CD's & play in vanilla civ3 so I do not to mess up the game. But for my fututre reference, if I play my turns in PTW and save the file will that screw up the next person that may try to open it with regular civ3 software?

We are doing very well indeed in this game!

Frollo

Nov 11, 2003, 09:45 AM

Don't forget to reinforce [insert city name]. You know, the city on the Incense chokepoint in our far West.
The Japanese may be stupid, but not too stupid to realize they've run out of expansion space!

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 10:30 AM

@handy - Yes, As far as I know, that will mess up the save.

@ Team - I would go for a FP location in Kolhapur. Reasons - 1. Can get a complete ring around it. Better chance to be close to a potential Iron Works site. Can influence all the fertile land in India.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 11, 2003, 10:34 AM

I was thinking around the same lines as that. We can have a great southern part of our empire and use it's power to overrun the north.

We have a good amount of elite swords on the battlefield, now we just need a litle help from the RNG gods.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 11:35 AM

EDIT Must give credit here You guys set me up in great position. Well Done!

Pre Turn End of 3700BC

The warrior to the south has uncovered a rather large piece of land. We must keep the Wmap away from our friends to the north.
Persia – Annoyed 42 gold we are up COL
Japan – Polite 39 gold Math Phil COL Lit
Iroquois Polite 82 gold we are up COL – How is he doing that with 4 cities? Japan is way behind with twice the number of cities. Is the Japan AI going for a mass upgrade gambit? :lol:
India- 42 gold we are up Math Phil COL Lit, and, ahem, at war.
We are the only ones at war.

We are 1 resource shy of 4 (we have furs, silks, incense). If we get to 4 we will be unbeatable IMHO. Unfortunately I don’t see a fourth on our continent, Hope our southern warrior finds one.

We are average to Persia in strength, and he is annoyed. Sign ROP with Persia. Persia pays us 12 gold and immediately goes to polite. Let’s hope he stays there for a while. That should keep him off our backs until the time of our choosing (Which I do not figure to be in the next 20 turns). Yes he can now stroll in our neighborhood, but he already has the map anyway. Choke Point at tours keeps him about of Japan via land.

Hope Bangalore does not flip before we can take Delhi.
Put a horse in the build @ Lyons after the Library so I don’t forget Kaiser’s instructions.
Hit Enter
Iroquois offers us an ROP. I counter for fun & he will pay 88 gold, all he has. I decline, but I’m thinking about it. May do it next turn if he will pay us enough GPT. We are in good shape for war with India. Persia & Iroquois should leave us alone. I think Persia goes after Iroquois or Japan soon.

Turn 1 350 BC
Worker to Grenoble to chop. Shields will go to Grenoble for the library, but the tile will be in Lyons city limits. Lyons needs more food squares.
Put walls in the build order at Tours to come after the Temple. (incense, choke point).
Two workers to Rouen to clear Jungle. Switch Rouen to a library so we don’t waste the chop shields. These guys have a lot of Jungle to clear. Workers irrigating near Madras. I won’t abandon since we will need a lot of cities if we stick to the “100k culture” plan.
War Report: 2 vet Swords beat 2 Regular spears at Kolhapur. We suffer no losses and capture 3 worker slaves. Put them to works building a road. Then plan to chop nearby to get some culture going up there. Decide Delhi is next.
Warrior is going to explore south on all turns. If he sees something interesting, I’ll note it. I’m sending the galley to where the warrior to outline the coast, if it sees something I’ll let you know.

Orleans builds a harbor, but has no growth. If I switch off the gold, we lose 3 GPT for 20 turns until the city grows. I’m sending an Indian slave to join the city so it will grow and we can keep the 3 extra GPT. EDIT As I reread this, it seems more and more like a bad decision. Any comments?

Turn 2 330 BC
Irrigating Avignon
Moving to Delhi.

Turn 3 310 BC
Avignon Builds Temple, set to barracks
Paris Settler, set to Settler
Lyons build set to Horse
Paris Riots. Should have seen that after reading Kaiser. Grrr. This is why I can never beat Deity! Handy goes to get coffee.
Ice & game down south on the islands. Oil under the ice?
Good news. Regular spears are in Delhi. Gandhi did not build barracks I guess.
Republic due in 12.
Diplo:
Persia is at tech Parity. They are polite. He finished researching COL. Should I have traded for gold??
Japan now behind Math & COL only. Annoyed
India – well…
Iroquois cautious, tech parity. Should have sold him COL I guess.

Turn 4 290 BC
Archer from Delhi attacks across the river. French sword wins.
Japan is building the GL.
Worker finished the chop and starts to mine Orleans.
Indian archer walks into forest near Kolhapur. I move the workers and attack him with a sword. Sword wins and promotes to Elite.
Delhi captured by 2 veteran and 1 elite Sword versus 3 regular spears.
Gandhi will give Jaipur to us in exchange for peace, but I think we have enough swords to take Lahore & Bombay. Let’s take those two then get Lahore at the peace table.
We are average in strength to Persia & he is still polite. We are stronger then Japan & Iroquois, Japan is building horses.
There are goody huts on the southern islands.

Turn 5 270
Slider to 60% / 30% with Republic due in 12 because handy lets Rheims riot. Handy promises the team he will check F1 before each turn from now on! There are no units in a few cities near where an immortal is moving. I’ll swap a few over there to Paris & Lyons just to be safe. Move spear from Dijon to Rheims, and warrior from Orleans to Dijon. Horse due in 3 in Lyons will go to Paris. When the police are in place we can move the sliders. I should have seen this coming and moved the police to the larger cities. Orleans has spear due in 1 to take the warriors place.

Avignon builds spear. He will stay there since it is a size 5 city. Building Barracks now.
Madras builds spear, set to spear since we need some police. Warrior in Madras moves to the war zone.
Workers irrigating & building roads.
The elite spear who has been patiently waiting for the regular warrior from Jaipur to get the flat lands attacks. He wins, but produces no leader.
It will take a few turns for the sword forces to heal & get in position for the assault on Bombay. Looks like I will not get to have all of the fun.
Gandhi will now give us 2 cities for peace. Jaipur and 1 crappy city. I’d rather have the ones near Delhi in the fertile lands. India is on the ropes Bombay is non the capital, and is on flat land, so we can take that city with vet swords versus regular spears. Lahore is on hills so the defensive bonus is a drag. I think we take Bombay, the capital moves to Lahore, then we sue for peace & get Jaipur and Hyderabad.

Turn 6 250 BC
Orleans builds spear, set to barracks. This city has a good shield count and will put out a lot of veteran horses.
Tours builds a temple, walls due in 7.
Dijon builds Temple, warrior due in 3 for police.
There is an immortal on the road near Lyons. He can take it undefended next turn if he wants to.
Japan now only down Math. Japan has no Iron, yet. Iroquois still have no horses.
I’m getting swords in place near Jaipur & Karachi so when we sue for peace we will have a defender nearby.
Attack swords are healing for the assault on Bombay.
Ice, game, whales & fish on islands in the south.

Turn 7 230 BC
Settler in Paris, spear to be built in 4
Immortal heads in the road south to Lyons…and turns left into the forest. Only been ROP raped once by an AI, it was the Aztecs, and they were polite at the time.
Aztecs finish the great Library. Good it’s on another continent.
Romans build the Great Wall
Besancon & Avignon workers move to a chop to speed up the buildings.
There are now 2 immortals in our borders. Near Rouen & Lyons.
I’m sending the settler 3 tiles due north of Marseilles. Nice fertile bonus grassland with a fresh water lake and mountains for lots of shields after RR. If we don’t get this the Ai will. An Indian city used to be there. You can change next turn if you don’t like. Ultimately we need to settle the two Irons to the south of Paris (one is on the island) so Japan does not get it. We may be able to do some nice Iron trades with the other continent.
[/b]F1[/b]Check. I can move slider to 10 for happiness after hiring a clown in Rheims (which has no police). The horse due in 1 in Lyons will go to Rheims.
Warrior in Dijon begins moving towards Paris, which is also empty.

Turn 8 210 BC
Lyons builds horse, set to horse. Horse goes to Paris for police.
Good news, Persia is building the great lighthouse. I hope they get it so we can steal it. That’s also fewer Immortals to deal with. Diplo check no change.
Indian warrior fortifies on mountain next to Kolhapur, and an Indian archer advances from Bombay. Elite sword kills archer in forest. Six healed swords head to Bombay.

F1Slider is 70/10. Paris grows next turn to 5 but will not revolt because of the horse. Rheims can lose the clown after the warrior from Dijon gets to Paris & the Pars horse goes to Rheims.

Turn 9 190 BC
Warrior attacks sword in Kolhapur, loses but sword red lines.
Marseilles builds worker and starts another worker.
Dijon builds warrior, set for another warrior due in 3. Dijon in now a police academy.
We are pretty heavy into a culture build now as the war draws to a close.
Bombay now to size 1. India has been rushing spears I guess. Good news is Bombay has cultural borders so it should not auto raze (I hate the auto raze feature).
F1Slider 70/10. Fire clown in Rheims. Hire clown in Paris. Republic due in 7 turns. No city grows next turn. Size 5’s with no police would riot if left alone. All should stay happy at 10%. Immortal on road 2 turns from unguarded Paris.

Turn 10 170 BC
Immortal ignores empty Paris.
Persia builds Great Lighthouse. That did not take long.
Elite sword kills archer outside of Bombay.
The war is near an end. We are due for a leader. I’ve been starting with veteran swords versus regular spears in these battles. The thinking was that the elite sword could finish off a weak spear. Since we have not yet lost a battle, and there are few battles left to fight, and Bombay is on flat land, I’m going to go first with elite swords against regular spears. If we lose the elite swords we can still finish off India.
They say it’s better to be lucky than good. I'd prefer to be both! My city happiness management has not been very good, but I did get lucky. Our leader is safely in Madras. I suggest we build the FP. The team can decide where.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/space01_leaderpic.JPG

Summary of where things stand:
F1 Fire clown in Paris. Paris grows in 2 so watch it. You can send a cop from Dijon over. Rheims grows in 7. Paris & Rheims need more police. Chartres has 3 smiles & 2 frowns. I don’t understand why Paris & Chartres have different smile counts. They are both size 5. Paris has a temple, Chartres does not. Both have equal luxuries. Can a team member explain this to me? There is a temple due in Chartres next turn. I hired a clown in Chartres you need to fire next turn after the temple comes in and the spear goes in for police.
>We did not lose a single sword on this set of turns (like I said, I was more lucky than good).
>Our leader is in Madras.
>There are 5 swords in Bombay and 2 on the outskirts. I say we definitely take Lahore (the new capital), then just wipe India out now while we have the time & resources. My vote is to kill them. They are weak, let’s finish them off. But, if the teams wants to sue for peace I’m with the team.
>There is a spear near Rheims, send him to Chartres for Police.
>Let Dijon keep building police. We need a road there to move them more quickly.
>Settler in due north of Marseilles heading to “X” next to the sword on the hill.
>Only Japan is behind on Tech (math).
>We need some population in Orleans to maximize the colossus. Perhaps I should have changed the citizens to get growth. I’m not sure about this. There is an Indian worker that just arrived to the city you can add to the population.
>The galley & warrior are done exploring the island. They are good lands we should settle, especially the Iron to deny Japan. The galley should arrive in port about the time a new settler is ready I think.
>To the best of my knowledge & belief, I did not violate any RB or LK rules. :)
Here is the save and a couple of zoomed in pictures of the empire.

The correct 170bc save for Joan (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Joan_d::Arc_of_the_French,_170_BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SP01_zoom1.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SP01_zoom2.JPG

Here are the builds as of 190BC. I don't think they changed from 190 to 170, but I did not check.
City Build
Delhi Spear
Paris Spear
Orleans Barracks
Madras Temple
Lyons Horse
Bangalore Spear
Rheims Granary
Tours walls
Marseilles worker
Chartres temple
Kolhapur temple
Avignon barracks
Besancon temple
Rouen library
Grenoble temple
Dijon warrior

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 11:57 AM

I agree Kolhapur is a nice FP spot. I could have saved a turn by building in 190 BC. Instead I moved him. You can build it next turn.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 12:29 PM

I say, let's sue for peace, get two cities and whatever else we can get. Then we can consolidate, settle the lands to the south, and build our military for the next round of combat...Iroquois?

Build the FP in Kolhapur with the leader which will supercharge our new Indian lands. (Great job getting the leader by the way :goodjob: )

Good to see our new Indian cities at pop 1. It is always a good idea to starve them down.

@Handy - If I join a worker to a city I will usually use one of our worker instead of a slave. First, because a slave doesn't cost any up keep, while worker does, and second, because foreigners in our cities tend to get unhappy quicker when we are at war. But joining a worker was a good idea.

We need to get temples going in our new cities ASAP. The culture will prevent flips, and start adding to our 100K goal. When we get to Republic we can start cash rushing them.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 12:32 PM

Another idea. Let's capture Lahore then settle for peace. The Indian capitol will jump up to Bengal or Karachi. If we get Jaipur and Hyperadad in the peace, Indian will forever ( or at least until they are crushed in the next war) be trapped in jungles.

We can also afford a tighter build in India. If we have any extra cities we can settle in-between some of our Indian cities.

Hmmmmm

Nov 11, 2003, 03:10 PM

Got it will play now

Hmmmmm

Nov 11, 2003, 03:13 PM

errr, looks like that file is corrupt.. any helpers around?

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 03:48 PM

Plus the save is from 1500 BC. Hopefully Handy is still around and can re-upload it.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Another idea. Let's capture Lahore then settle for peace. The Indian capitol will jump up to Bengal or Karachi. If we get Jaipur and Hyperadad in the peace, Indian will forever ( or at least until they are crushed in the next war) be trapped in jungles.

We can also afford a tighter build in India. If we have any extra cities we can settle in-between some of our Indian cities.

I like this idea better than sueing for peace right away. Lahore is easy pickings at this point. We are already there and it is ripe. That would take care of battle in the eastern empire and we can move all units towars the west.

I cannot decide about Iroquois or Japan. Japan looks to be really good land and they do not have any Iron so that battle should go fairly easily. Iroquois land is jungle infested and not easily developed. OTOH there is a ton of jungle we can chop for temples in Iroquois land.

About the workers I was of two minds. The French workers are not industrious, but the slaves are free. In the long view switching the workers to Orleans was probably a better play. We are going to win this game, but I'm second guessing alot because I want to get better at this & beat diety. Thanks for your comments...keep them coming.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Plus the save is from 1500 BC. Hopefully Handy is still around and can re-upload it.

Just read the post. Let me upload again.
EDIT - Try this file Hmmmm. I'll check in all day to make sure it works. Post back if it does.

Joan 170 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Joan_d::Arc_of_the_French,_170_BC.SAV)

I tried to type the link in Word. I'll go back to the old cut and paste method from now on. And next time I'll download my own post just to make sure. I did that this time and it worked for me, so it should work for you guys. I definitely played with the civ3 disk, not PTW. Sorry for the trouble Hmmmmm.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 04:16 PM

@ Handy - I could be wrong here, but I don't think we get shields from a jungle chop. We only get 10 shields from a forest chop.

With that in mind, I think your idea of going after Japan has a lot of merit, and is something we should work towards.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
@ Handy - I could be wrong here, but I don't think we get shields from a jungle chop. We only get 10 shields from a forest chop.

With that in mind, I think your idea of going after Japan has a lot of merit, and is something we should work towards.

You are correct!! I always just assumed :crazyeye: you got 10 shields, never really paid attantion since you have to clear it anyway to use the land. I checked the civilopedia and it said you get 10 shileds from a forest chop, but did not mention any shields from a jungle. And Jungle takes longer to clear. Thank you for pointing that out to me. No wonder the AI settles it last unless there is a resource there. If you see the AI settle in a Jungle for no good reason, you can bet rubber will be there later. Same goes for Oil in desert & Ice.

In that case lets wait on the Iroquois and go do Japan next while they have no Iron.

Now, should we use swords or lots of horses? Would be nice to get Japan out of the way before we face the pesky samurai which are a tough and mobile defender at 4.4.2.

Did you try my the new save I uploaded to see if it worked?

Sir Bugsy

Nov 11, 2003, 05:34 PM

The save worked for me.

Sams kick butt on offense and defense. Taking out Japan... all the way. No pointy-stick research with them. Whatever we have horses, swords, spears should head towards the choke point city

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 06:16 PM

The more I think about it, the more I like the Japan plan. We should take the last Indian city east of Bombay, then head to Japan choke point. The walls should be done by the time the swords get there. Dijon kicks out 1 reg warrior every 3 turns we can upgrade after our police needs are met.

Do you think we shoud sing ROP with Iroquois so they don't get too annoyed and come after our horses? My approach is usually to sign ROP's with all civs so there is less chance of an alliance, and then pick civs off 1 by 1.

Glad to hear the save worked. I won't try any more programming, copy and paste and use the forum editor all the way for me. Hope Hmmmmm checks back in.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 11, 2003, 06:41 PM

I agree that Japan should be a priority. Samurai would make them far beyond just a nuisance.

On a side note, when we do start producing more units, we should really make sure that we've take the time to build a barracks in the cities that are producing them. We're screwing ourselves out of a lot of units in the long run by building regulars.

For example, a reg swordsman has 3 hp, while a vet has 4 hp. So, if we look at it from an hp standpoint, 3 vets essentially equal the power of 4 regs. Plus, you can't go wrong with being one step closer to elite units :D

Back on topic, the ROP with the Iroquois sounds alright. The only reason I would be opposed would be if we were about to go to war with them and it would cause us to have to wait longer to declare honorably. But, seeing as we're going for Japan, I see no reason not to.

Hmmmmm

Nov 11, 2003, 06:46 PM

That save works. I will have to play tomorrow though now as it is very late. I have also just lost another 5CC attempt so I am not in a great civ mood.

handy900

Nov 11, 2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Kaiser_Berger
I agree that Japan should be a priority. Samurai would make them far beyond just a nuisance.

On a side note, when we do start producing more units, we should really make sure that we've take the time to build a barracks in the cities that are producing them.

Back on topic, the ROP with the Iroquois sounds alright. The only reason I would be opposed would be if we were about to go to war with them and it would cause us to have to wait longer to declare honorably. But, seeing as we're going for Japan, I see no reason not to.

Agree totally on the barracks. Only reason I built a couple warrior regulars was for police. I never attacked during my turns with anything but veterans or elite. I'm a big fan of barracks.

Sorry about the 5CC Hmmmm. I'm losing a solo Always War Monarch game right now. Crappy start, mountains everywhere, and I should have reloaded. After 4 wins @ AWM in a row I was feeling a little cocky. Won't go for "random" earth age anymore in that variant.

Frollo

Nov 12, 2003, 03:25 AM

I'm confused. What makes Kolhapur such a great FP city?
I see a large body of water NE, and mountains N, W and NW of Kolhapur. We can't build a ring of cities around it, only a half ring.

There's far more space around Delhi so I think it makes a better FP location.

I'm not trolling or flaming here, I'm just wondering if I'm overlooking something.

Hmmmmm

Nov 12, 2003, 03:52 AM

I would like to boycot going after Japan first, we have a good defence city against them, lets fill it with defence and attack and then they can only attack via the water and we know how bad the AI is at that. Lets get the other two civs first as we have a massive border to defend against them at the moment.

Hmmmmm

Nov 12, 2003, 03:53 AM

0) 170BC
--------
Let swordsman recover
Build FP in Kolhapur

1) 120BC
--------

2) 90BC
-------

3) 70BC
-------
Lahores gets autorazed
Get Republic and Revolt

4) 50BC
-------
Move troops back towards Jaipur
Sell Republic to Inquoius for 110gld and WM
Sell Republic to Persian for 260gld and WM
Sell Mathematics to Japan for 40gld and WM

5) 30BC????
------------
Didn't notice this year

6) 10BC
-------
The French Republic is Born, and how we danced
Get Peace with Indian for 10gld, WM, Karachi and Jaipur
Pop a goodie hut and get a horseman
Have to drop Science to 50%, get currency in 6.

7) 10AD
----
Build Horseman and Temples
Still no roads to other civs capitals
Been concerntrating worker effort on improving terrian around our second core

8) 30AD
----
Perisa want RoP, No thanks

9) 50AD
-------
Buy a Worker from Japan for 30gld

The great wall has been built by the romans which means we are lagging behind in science, we need to meet those other civs

10) 70AD
--------
Indian Settler pair enter territry near Kolhopar, I block with swords
Get another horseman from a goodie hut, they are not all going to fit in my boat :(

There is a settler going to the corner near Delhi, but it looks like an Indian settler pair (the ones I am blocking near Kolhopar) want to go there as well.

Next I think we should work on:
1st) Culture
2nd) Populating that Island to the south west of us
3rd) Building up Horseman for a Knights war against the Persians and the Inquious

I have concerntrated on improving Terrain near FP
Building Defence on Japan Land Bridge
And Building up Culture.

We are looking good, Long live the French Republic and her fine culture.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/culture-graph.jpg

THE 70AD SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Joan_d__Arc_of_the_French,_70_AD.SAV)

Hmmmmm

Nov 12, 2003, 03:55 AM

Got a bad headache this morning so not going to work just yet so thought I would play the goes. I think I will try that 5CC with Greece again now...

And just to make the point again I say we do not go to war with Japan until the rest of the contenent and islands are ours. Unless everyone else in this SG disagrees with me.

Frollo

Nov 12, 2003, 04:06 AM

I agree. Japan isn't our biggest of worries now. Let's build and research for a while until Immortals become out of fashion.

However, during my turns, I thought I saw Iron on Japanese territory. Can someone comfirm this?

handy900

Nov 12, 2003, 07:27 AM

There may be Iron in Japan that is not hooked up. I didn't check that, just noticed from the advisor screen that it came up under resources our our side. Could be they had not hooked up a road yet to Iron inside Japan.

I'm at work with no game access. Will check for you when I get home if unless someone posts before then.

handy900

Nov 12, 2003, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Frollo
I'm confused. What makes Kolhapur such a great FP city?
I see a large body of water NE, and mountains N, W and NW of Kolhapur. We can't build a ring of cities around it, only a half ring.

There's far more space around Delhi so I think it makes a better FP location.

I'm not trolling or flaming here, I'm just wondering if I'm overlooking something.

I appreciate the tone and the question. It is a good question, and I enjoy SG's for this reason, differing perspectives and good strategy discussion.
I agree that Delhi is a good choice but I give slight edge to Kolhapur for these reasons.
1. Both cities have lots of water nearby that hinders a perfect ring. Delhi to the E, and Kolhapur to the N.
2. Kolhapur will be a high shield city when RR comes in due to the plains + mountains combo.
3. Kolhapur gives us culture in the cities we will soon pick up from India @ the peace table. Jaipur + Karachi [ please forgive my spelling of Indian cities ;) ]. This culture will help in the NW expansion as we punch into Persia & Iroquois territory.

It's not a "no brainer" choice, but it looks to be a little better. The tile where the road "X" apprears W,W,SW of Kolhapur also looked to me to be a good choice. I'm sure Space settles this site, Th road "X" appears on the screen shot from my last turn post.

Please feel free to post comments to support Delhi, I'm not adamant and may be overlooking something. I'm here to both win and learn.

Frollo

Nov 12, 2003, 07:51 AM

Thanks for your explanation, handy. I guess it breaks down to this:
FP in Delhi -> immediate effect
FP in Kolhapur -> long-term effect

Though I'd favored Delhi if playing solo, Kolhapur is a decision I can very well live with. It'll sure help our expansion to the N, while Delhi is in a place we already possess.

Since the FP's already been built, there's not much left to discuss :)

Hmmmmm

Nov 12, 2003, 09:28 AM

1) Sir Bugsy (Up Next)
2) Reddwarfian (On Deck)
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900
7) Hmm

Got in 24 play in 48

Hmmmmm

Nov 12, 2003, 09:29 AM

nce the FP's already been built, there's not much left to discuss

Sorry Frollo, I missed you post before playing. The FP is already having an effect, the cities around it have become more productive.
and it already has a ring of five cities.

Frollo

Nov 12, 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm

Sorry Frollo, I missed you post before playing.
That's okay.
The FP is already having an effect, the cities around it have become more productive.
and it already has a ring of five cities.
:goodjob:

Sir Bugsy

Nov 12, 2003, 09:50 AM

I 've got the game.

I'll probably play during lunch today.

I see three immediate goals that I will try to take care of during my turns:
1. Build culture.
2. Build infrastructure
3. Build cities

Today you can sign me:
Bugsy the Builder

Sir Bugsy

Nov 12, 2003, 02:37 PM

Pre-flight (0) – Wow we are looking pretty good.
Hurry temple in Madras for 44G.
MM Marseilles to grow a turn faster.
Hurry Delhi’s temple for 156G
Hurry Orleans temple for 128G. MM to grow.
Hurry Bangalore’s temple for 180G.
Hurry Lyons’ library for 272G – Lyon is under cultural pressure from Nagasaki.
Change Karachi from a warrior to a temple and rush for 224G.

Our WM is getting valuable. I won’t sell it yet though.
We have a strong military v. everyone but Persian with whom we have an average military.

Drop science slider to 40% - Currency still due in 2 turns.

Culture check – 869 with 32 cpt. If we can keep growing our cpt, we’ll be well on our way.

IBT – Tokugawa wants to talk – He wants to trade WMs. Sorry pal.
Delhi: Temple=> Library
Orleans: Temple=> Galley
Madras: Temple=>Barracks
Bangalore: Temple=> Library
Tours: Library=> Catapult
Karachi: Temple=> Barracks
Besancon: Spear=> Galley

1. 90 AD – It’s usually not good form to automate workers or have units on go-to orders in an SG. I don’t mind, but there are some folks that will get really ticked off.
I start playing a dance with the Indian settler pair. Let’s see how long I can keep them busy.

Hurry Bombay’s temple for 208G.
Hire a tax-man in Rheims. It will still grow, but we can’t afford the lux tax right now.
Culture growth is now 45 per turn.

IBT – A Persian Galley sails down our west coast. Time to sell our WM.
Currency comes in. Select Construction due in 9.
Bombay: Temple=> Market
Rheims: Horse=> Market
Marseilles: Worker=>Barracks

2. 110 AD – Plan on sealing the Indian settler pair in a box of swords.
Workers work.
Get 91G selling our WM. Now no one has any money to buy currency from us… so sad.
MM Paris to grow when settler is popped next turn.

IBT – Paris: Settler=>Settler
Lyons: Horse=> Market
Amiens: Spear=> Temple

3. 130 AD – More working. Indian settler is trapped in our territory.
We need more settlers. Switch Delhi to a settler and rush for 76G

IBT – Indians send out another settler pair.
Delhi: Settler=>Library

4. 150 AD – Hurry galley in Besancon to meet our settler
Get 4G selling our map around.
Jaipur is now hooked up. Fire belly dancer and put her to work in the fields.

IBT – There are at least four settler pairs out there. The Persian are going to nab a spot NE of Jaipur. The Iroquois have also joined the race.
Besancon: Galley=> Settler

5. 170 AD – Found Cherbourg in former India. Start temple.
Diplo check – Persia now has currency.

IBT – Persians don’t settle NE of Jaipur
Orleans: Galley=> Market
Madras: Barracks=> Settler
Tours: Catapult=> Barracks

6. 190 AD – Dancing with settlers.
Iroquois now have Construction, but want a small fortune for it.

IBT – Persian land a settler pair on OUR island. All the other settler pairs start heading north. :hmm: Then a new settler pair comes out of Hyderadad
Paris: Settler=> Settler If you MM this, we have a 4 turn settler factory.

7. 210 AD – Found Poitiers in former Lahore location. Start Temple.
Now we can get a very favorable deal for Construction. Hiawatha will give WM, 6G & Construction for Currency. We take it, but can’t enter the middle ages yet? Start researching Polytheism

8. 230 AD – Toulouse founded on our southern island. Start temple.

IBT – Madras: Settler=> Settler

9. 250 AD – Bought a worker from Japan for 27G.
IBT – Persians found a city on our island.
Paris: Settler=> Settler (didn’t MM this as well as I could of.)

10. 260 AD - :sleep:

After action report: We’re at 1339 culture and making 49 cpt. We need to be rushing culture buildings as often as possible. That way we can get the double bonus later.

There is a warrior all by his lonesome on the SW island. There wasn’t enough room for him. I figured we’ll get him later. I was planning on using the two galleys in the south for shuttling settlers down to our islands. There is one on a galley, one just NE of Jaipur, and one that just headed out of Paris. The next post has two dot maps of places we can settle. We need to maximize our cities, then maximize culture in each city.

The core around Kolhapur is being pretty productive.

There is a galley off the west coast of Japan that will be ready to go on a suicide mission in another turn or two.

Once we get some culture growing in each city we need to build markets. Markets= More happy people and more taxes.

There is a sizable garrison in Tours our chokepoint city.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch,_260_AD.SAV)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 12, 2003, 02:38 PM

Paris and Madras can both crank out settlers
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_-_260_AD_Dot_Map_2.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_-_260_AD_Dot_MAP_1.jpg

handy900

Nov 12, 2003, 04:06 PM

Nice job Bugsy,

Sounds like we can crank settlers out from Paris + Madras for the forseeable future to settle tightly packed cities and build culture first and rush with cash as the treasury builds up.

How tight do we want to build aroudn the core in Paris and the FP?

Do we plan to let those cities ever get over 12, or do we plan smaller "9 tile" cities to take advantage of the lower corruption in those areas so we can build more culture buildings faster?

I'm assuming we will build fairly tight in the high corruprion outer areas such as the islands to the south.

zurichuk

Nov 12, 2003, 05:23 PM

ok hi guys, holiday over and so i can give more attention to this SG than before, loads of progress made in the game in the last few days though , lots of reading/strategy to catch up on :)

Reddwarfian hasn't posted on these boards since Nov 7 when he said he was grounded, are you ungrounded yet? (bit like asking 'are you awake? but worth a try)

also i can't find a link to the last save or find it in the uploads5 folder, could somebody repost the link please?

but anyway it certainly looks like a superb situation we are in:goodjob:

Sir Bugsy

Nov 12, 2003, 06:20 PM

I'd say tight outside the cores and loose in the cores

Edit - Zurichuk, the save didn't work for you?

zurichuk

Nov 12, 2003, 06:35 PM

i must have my 'stupid hat' on, but i can't find the link or the save in the uploads folder

Hmmmmm

Nov 13, 2003, 02:45 AM

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (Suspended until a post is made in this SG)
3) zurichuk (Up Next)
4) Frollo (On Deck)
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900
7) Hmm

Hmmmmm

Nov 13, 2003, 02:47 AM

Sorry about the goto commands, I usually only use these if the guy is going to get there in my ten turns, I must of miss counted. Don't worry about automated workers though, I don't even do that for my own games.

Looks like a good set of turns Bugsy, we should be well on the way :)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 13, 2003, 09:52 AM

There weren't any automated workers, I was just making a general statement. The go-to commands don't bother me personally. Most of the time they are going to exactly where they should be going. Some people it bothers though. Same with build queues and science queues.

I was just making a general comment. If you played with some of the hard core SG players, you'd be in the dog house. With me you a team mate :)

zurichuk

Nov 13, 2003, 01:52 PM

ok this is my official GOT IT, will post results in 2-3 hours

Reddwarfian

Nov 13, 2003, 03:22 PM

Hmmm, I'm still grounded, and I'm dealing with my computer addiction, so please take me off the list. I'm out.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 13, 2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
Hmmm, I'm still grounded, and I'm dealing with my computer addiction, so please take me off the list. I'm out.

Sorry to see you go Red :( :( :(

Someday when you are legal you can have these addictions and not get grounded, just chewed out by your wife. :D

zurichuk

Nov 13, 2003, 04:38 PM

OK pre-flight checks (for my benefit)

23 cities, nice. Polytheism in 2 turns@40%

13 workers, 5 warriors, 17 spearmen, 13 swordsmen, 6 horsemen, 1 catapult and 3 galleys

everyone is annoyed except the Indians who are furious

1339 culture@49/turn (from Bugsy's report)

We are technologically advanced.

------------------------------

Iroquois - 7 cities - no horses yet - 8 Gold - we are strong
Japan - 13 cities - no iron yet - 84 Gold - behind 3 techs - we are strong
India - 2 cities - no iron - 7 Gold - down 2 techs - 5 turns left on the peace treaty - we are strong
Persia - 14 cities - 21 Gold - down Construction - we are average

Everything hunky-dory

------------------------------

270AD (1)

Besancon - settler - settler
Dijon - library - worker
Bayonne founded NE of Jaipur as per dot map - temple
lots of worker actions
block indian settler pair with the swordsmen
tax cut to 30% - polytheism in 1
No diplomacy

IT

Immortals move through territory, galley also
Indian settler pair goes north towards Persian territory
We discover Polytheism, move to Monotheism for Cathedrals
We have entered a new age says our historians

280AD (2)

Nothing but worker actions and fine tuning
science rate to 50%, seems strange, not used to actually researching these days
No change diplomacy

IT

New Indian pair makes it into our territory
Immortals heading away

290AD (3)

madras - settler -settler
Chartres - library - settler
Kolhapur - library - temple
dijon - worker - marketplace
brest built west of chartres
suicide galley heads west
block new indian settler pair
no change - diplomacy

IT

Movement as before

300AD (4)

Paris - settler - horseman
Rheims - Marketplace - horseman - fire taxman
Tours - Barracks - horseman
Marseilles - Barracks - horseman
Galley moves further west - no contact
Bordeaux founded west of Madras
Indian settler pair is actually an archer and a spearman
whoa - AI's have been trading - Iroquios have parity, Persians are ahead Monotheism

IT

Indian pair keep moving - but where? must check for undefended cities, treaty is up
Movement from Japanese - getting nervous now

310AD (5)

Grenoble - Library - barracks
Our brave Galley sinks

320AD (6)

Delhi - Library - Settler
Rheims riots at size 9 - entertainer given
Avignon - Library - Marketplace
Rouen - Library - Spearman
Rennes built on island

IT
Persians almost out of territory
Indians are up to something (have 4 units outside their city)

330AD (7)

Madras - Settler - Library
Chartes - Settler - galley
Amiens - temple - library
trade WM's for some gold, Persians still up Monotheism- we have in 3

IT

Persians gone

340AD (8)

Paris - Horseman - Marketplace
Lyons - Horseman - horseman
Tours - Horseman - galley
Marseilles - horseman - library
2 more settlers landed on island

IT
oops pressed new turn instead of diplomacy, buttons are too close
Japanese reappear on border
Indians have 5 units on border

350AD (9)

Delhi - Settler - settler
Rheims - horseman - library
besancon - settler - library
Rouen expands
New Paris :) formed on the east coast
New Orleans formed on island
New Lyons formed on South Coast

IT
Monotheism discovered - feudalism next (this can be vetoed)
Japanese galley goes along coast

360AD (10)

Bombay - marketplace - library
Lyons - horseman - horseman

OK final situation, I've never expanded so fast in peace time before so they were strange turns, felt the trigger underneath my finger several times, learning alot from this game :)

Iroquois - 7 cities - 73 gold - down Monotheism - we are strong
India - 3 cities - 2 gold - down at least 3 techs - we are strong
Japan - 13 cities - 3 gold - down at least 3 techs - we are strong
Persians - 14 cities - 10 gold - tech parity - we are average

we have a marble patio in our palace

we have 31 cities - 212 gold, researching feudalism

1987 culture - 75 / turn
2 settlers
14 workers
5 warriors
17 spearmen
14 swordsman
11 horsemen
1 catapult and 2 galleys

For next player there is not much to hand over, there's a worker and soon a couple of settlers waiting to be transported to island cities,2 galleys are being prodcued for more suicide runs , I didn't do diplomacy in the final turn, the badly corrupted island cities are building temples, this can be vetoed, i tried to build up a few horseman for knight duty as I'm sure sooner or later we have to clear some more of our continent. My micromanagement isn't so good (still took 2 hours to play though)

Good luck

Temporary save on placed here until civfanatics.net comes back (http://www.zurichtoengland.com/HMM1_French_Monarch_360AD.sav)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_360AD.sav)

Sir Bugsy

Nov 13, 2003, 04:54 PM

31 cities! :goodjob: If you figure with a temple/library/cathedral/university/colosseum in each city being worth 14 cpt, we are on our way.

Now if we can just get more cities :mwaha:

It is almost time for a war. What does the team think? Polish off India quickly? Conquer the Japanese homeland before the advent of the Samurai? Some Iroquois cities might fit in nicely?

One of the nice things about have a strong culture will be few flips after conquering and few resisters. We actually might start seeing cities start "yearning to be with us" :)

zurichuk

Nov 13, 2003, 05:12 PM

to be honest, it was your dot-maps that helped me immensely, i am not so hot at city placement (as you can probably see from the island which didn't have a dotmap), normally make up for that with good economy management and infrastructure, very interesting and different style of turns for me, but still fun :)

I just noticed from the screenshot Rheims is now 10, maybe it wants to riot again
Hopefully Hamadan will be the first to give into our future cultural supremacy:)

A screenie

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/mainarea.jpg

Sir Bugsy

Nov 13, 2003, 05:43 PM

If we rush the temples around the Persian city of Hamadan, we can probably have it flip to us in the next twenty turns or so.

Keep filling up those islands. They are going to be very corrupt so we'll have to rush the culture in each.

We might want to try a galley going east.

handy900

Nov 13, 2003, 10:30 PM

Are we going to ICS the island @ 1 tile between cities or a more mellow ICS @ 2 tiles? You are correct about the corruption, it will be bad.

I agree with Bugsy about a galley from our far east city - I think it's Lahore out on the eastern tip. Looks promising.

With regars to the next war:

We can take out Immortals with knights since they only have 2 on defense. We must make sure we upgrade vet spears to Pikes and have them in the border cities before we do this. If we drive & take the iron from Persia they will go down. Iroquis can be done while we wait for chivalry to arrive.

Japan is intersting. If we do not do them immediatly, before they get samurai, we will have to wait until cavalry I think. Sams are 4 defense 4 attack and move 2. I'd think we need cavalry to get the job done cost effectively. If we wait it will also take a lot of cannon to punch through the choke point. Which is fine, I love to load up on artillery.

If we do Japan first I suggest we sign Persia & Iroquois to an ROP to avoid a 2 front war. By the time we get back to Persia, the Immortals would be much less intimidating. Japan has fertile land that would allow for a great palace rush location if we choose to do so. The longer we wait, the stronger they will get.

Okay, the more I ponder this I'm slightly leaning to Iroquois now, Persia with Knights and Japan last with cavalry. But this is kind of a toss up with pros & cons both ways.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 13, 2003, 10:33 PM

Things are looking good!

I think we should keep expanding onto the islands, but we shouldn't be too concerned about using all our treasury to rush culture yet. We're going to want to save up some money for the upgrade to knights. It'll cost 80g/upgrade, so once we get chivalry we may have to turn off or at least turn down research for a while to get the necessary funds.

And yes, suicide galleys east, west, any which way in which there might be land. It's a good bet that the other continent is probably to the mid-middle ages by now. The sooner we find them, the sooner we can get caught up.

Frollo

Nov 14, 2003, 02:20 AM

Listen people, I can't play until Sunday night :(
I even won't be able to pick up the save before tomorrow morning (that's 24 hours from now for you non-European folks).

So feel free to skip my turn if y'all want to keep the pace. For me, better luck next time! :)

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 14, 2003, 04:20 AM

It doesn't really matter to me all that much....what does the rest of our glorious team think?

zurichuk

Nov 14, 2003, 05:34 AM

some comments,questions, thinking out loud

i think we should get some more of our continent when we get knights, that's an obvious statement but we have a huge border to protect if 3 civs go against us
edit handy900's comments on this I like

there are 2 new galleys being produced and we have 2 already, we only need one for shuttling settlers etc to the island so one can be suicidal already, somewhere we have 7 other civs, hopefully they are on 2 unconnectable continents but i doubt it, iut must be a fair size land mass or 2

what do you guys think of the usefulness of catapults (never use them myself until cannons / artillery then loads), should we have some more on the Japanese border town in case they get greedy? how useful are they for defence?

what are the scientific targets, which path is preferable when we have a choice, ie cultural before military / infrastructure or will the culture come anyway due to infrastructure and warring

we are low on cash due to researching ourselves, something i'm not used to anymore, however I am interested in seeing how the rest of the team deal with world maps and contact selling once the suicide galleys succeed (and the possible catchup in tech scenario), definitely a learning experience for me, do you withhold the contacts or use them as a slingshot or how do you deal with it?

i expect the pace of the SG to slow a little (hopefully not to snails pace but a little), we have worked quite fast so far but the turns (with 30+ cities) are beginning to take alot more time especially as you have to think for a team and a specific goal rather than yourself and also the alt-tabbing to notepad :)

it's 360AD, we still have 390 turns.which not counting the cultural bonuses gets us to 390*75+2000 = approx 31000 without cultural bonuses and further building, looking good if you consider most current culture will double at some stage and extra expansion yet to come

frollo, for me that's close to got in 24 play in 48 but ultimately it's hmm's game and he should decide who decides

handy900

Nov 14, 2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Frollo
Listen people, I can't play until Sunday night :(
I even won't be able to pick up the save before tomorrow morning (that's 24 hours from now for you non-European folks).

So feel free to skip my turn if y'all want to keep the pace. For me, better luck next time! :)

I'll defer to HMMMMM to decide this.

What about cats you ask...
I build alot of cats in an
Always War (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67464) game. In a regular game I seldom build them, but Japan would be an instance where I would. The cats miss alot attacking a city, but the hit ratio is better when you are attacking a unit outside a city. They will also fire off a shot at any units who attack the choke city. I'll see if I can find the bombard stats at lunch & edit this. The nice thing about cats is they do upgrade to cannon, then artillery. Cannon in the choke point would help alot if Japan gets nasty while we are at war with the other civs.

When we get rails + cav + cannon Japan will be unable to cope with us.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 14, 2003, 09:59 AM

1. I don't think I've been thinking ICS. I just been thinking, no wasted tiles.

2. Cats are great on defense. I think at least three in our chokepoint city would be very effective.

3. After sleeping on it, I think a quick war to wipe out India, then a war against the Iroquois would be a good idea.

With that in mind, we now begin the classic debate. Do we:

A. Race to Chivalry, and have numerous pre-builds in place and start building knights from scratch. Having a 10-20 turn opportunity to take advantage of our tech advantage.
or,
B. Take a moderate research pace, save money for upgrades, and hope the other civs don't research Chivalry.

I've always leaned towards option A. since the AI tend to go for it too. What does everyone think?

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 14, 2003, 12:09 PM

As far as the contact and world map trading with the other continent go, I usually follow this order:

1. Territory map- You can usually sell this around to get the continent's world map and some gold, maybe a tech if we're really behind.

2. World map- Do the samea s you did with territory, although this should net some big gains. We can probably get a tech or two with our world map through saavy trading.

3. Contacts- These are our last resort. These should NOT be sold until we can see know the other continent has Navagation. Once they reach this point, trade away, getting as much as you can.

Also, a note to whoever does discover the other continent: Do not trade anything to gain other contacts once we've contacted only one civ. It's a waste of our trading resources, as the AI will trade our contact around within a few turns. If our galley actually survives all the way to coastal water, we can just scout the coastline and get all the contacts, then trade the maps.

Also, another quick note: The AI can get a bit touchy once you have contacts that you're witholding from them. It's possible, although unlikely, that Persia might demand a contact or something. Even though it may sound insane, if that pops up we should tell them to stuff it. Losing the contact monopoly is killer. Facing the immortals for a few turns can't be that bad, can it? :p

handy900

Nov 14, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
1. I don't think I've been thinking ICS. I just been thinking, no wasted tiles.

Sounds good.

2. Cats are great on defense. I think at least three in our chokepoint city would be very effective.

Agree

3. After sleeping on it, I think a quick war to wipe out India, then a war against the Iroquois would be a good idea.

Let's do it.

With that in mind, we now begin the classic debate. Do we:

A. Race to Chivalry, and have numerous pre-builds in place and start building knights from scratch. Having a 10-20 turn opportunity to take advantage of our tech advantage.
or,
B. Take a moderate research pace, save money for upgrades, and hope the other civs don't research Chivalry.

I've always leaned towards option A. since the AI tend to go for it too. What does everyone think?

I favor option "A" . Attack India & then Iroquois with our swords & horsemen. We don’t need to build any more swords. During this time we pursue a fast research path to Chivalry. When we get to chivalry we can turn the slider down & upgrade 1 or 2 horsemen to knights per turn. With luck we may get a leader to build an army with an eye towards the Heroic Epic.

India & Iroquois are weak, and the French team can bring the swords we have plus newly built horsemen to the battle to finish them both off. I doubt India has built any barracks and neither of these two has Iron or horses. Iroquois may have a few veteran spears in their cities. By the time we defeat India & the Iroquois, we should have Chivalry and can upgrade some horsemen to Knights for a war with Persia. We may not be able to completely defeat both India & Iroquois prior to chivalry, so we need to study the map to identify which one to attack first and where.

When we get Chivalry we should start to chip away at Persia. It may take more than 1 war to finish them off.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 14, 2003, 12:20 PM

I think the key to fighting immortals is to get them before they can get you. Their defense is their Achilles' heal, being only two. Be prepared to bring your best defenders though because their 4 attack will be decisive.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 14, 2003, 12:23 PM

Cross post with Handy -

If the Iroquois do not have horses, that seals their fate. That means no Mounted Warriors, no GA. The only thing they will have going for them is all that jungle.

handy900

Nov 14, 2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Cross post with Handy -

If the Iroquois do not have horses, that seals their fate. That means no Mounted Warriors, no GA. The only thing they will have going for them is all that jungle.

And as you pointed out to me, there is no 1 time shield boost from a jungle chop like you get with forest. Last time I checked Iroquois had neither Iron nor horses. Maybe someone with access to a save an confirm this is still the case. If we are lucky we can extort some tech from them. Attack, give peace for tech when they are down to 1 city only, then finish them 20 turns later. Same goes for India

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
I think the key to fighting immortals is to get them before they can get you. Their defense is their Achilles' heal, being only two. Be prepared to bring your best defenders though because their 4 attack will be decisive.

Amen to that. Immortals are a little weak on defense but can hurt you on offense. Knights will give us the ability to out-maneuver them... I hope :)

Hey Kaiser Thanks for the map trading tips, this is kind of stuff I need to move to the next level. I'm really trying to pay attention to the trades this game and all tips & comments are appreciated!:goodjob:

Hmmmmm

Nov 14, 2003, 02:12 PM

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (Suspended until a post is made in this SG)
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo (Up Next)
5) Kaiser_Berger (On Deck)
6) handy900
7) Hmm

As long as Kaiser is okay to play monday/tuesday I don't have a problem with you playing sunday night Frollo.

Red, tell you mum that giving up computer games is as hard as giving up smoking, it ain't going to happen!! Good luck in ending the grounding soon, will keep your place open for when you get back as this game has a lot of turns left in it.

Hmmmmm

Nov 14, 2003, 02:16 PM

Japan could be dodgy when they get Iron, however our choke point is good and if thats well defended then we should be okay. They may still send some galleys but that just provides amusement. (as an aside, in the game I just lost Persia sent two immortals in a transport against my mech infantry).

Open to use of Cats, I never use them myself but agree that they could be useful as defence in our choke point city.

I will go with A for getting chivilry, the A.I always seems to get it before me.

I guess we try to take out Inquoius and Indians and then maybe Perisa.

Sir Bugsy

Nov 14, 2003, 03:19 PM

I would go for getting rid of the Iros just so I don't have to spell them anymore :D

handy900

Nov 14, 2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Hmmmmm
1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (Suspended until a post is made in this SG)
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo (Up Next)
5) Kaiser_Berger (On Deck)
6) handy900
7) Hmm

HMMMM,

Real life is taking me away on a on a business trip. :sad:
I can play Monday 11-17, but will be unable to play from Tuesday 11-18 until Thursday 11-20. I can play again on Friday 11-21. If my turns come up during that timeframe just skip over me to keep the game rolling.

I'll remind you of this again on Monday night.

Frollo

Nov 15, 2003, 04:03 AM

Ok, got the save!

I will check the thread just before playing, so keep posting those great suggestions :)

Frollo

Nov 16, 2003, 12:46 PM

PT (360 AD)
Yes, the Japanese do have two sources of Iron hooked up already, and one unconnected source. This is going to be nasty if they get Chivalry. Before going to war with anyone, we can sell or even give our spare Silks. The other civs don't need it anyway. We could even sign a RoP with Japan. Anything to keep them happy.

From now on, I will only mention worker actions that have a fairly large impact, such as joining a city, building a colony or doing a forest chop that helps building an improvement. I will omit minor worker actions (irrigating, mining, roading and movement).

Change library in Rheims to cathedral. It has a clown already and will grow in a few turns.

I hereby officialy grant our island the name of Corsica.
In this turnlog, when I speak about Corsica, I mean that pretty big, highly corrupt island S of Brest and Besancon.

1 (370 AD)
Kolhapur: temple > marketplace (15 turns).
New Rheims founded on Corsica > temple.

2 (380 AD)
Bangalore: library > marketplace (34 turns).
Rouen: spear > temple (15 turns). Spear goes to Tours.
Galley goes on suicide mission E from Corsica.

IBT
India sends out 2 Archer/Spear pairs from Hyderabad. I'll try to block them with our swordsmen.

3 (390 AD)
Delhi: settler > marketplace (15 turns). Settler is going to fill the gap between Karachi and Bayonne.
Lyons: horseman > cathedral (16 turns). I'll do a forest chop to decrease build time.
Karachi: barracks > walls (10 turns). Karachi is a border city (w/ Indians and Persians) and doesn't grow really fast. So it should have walls I think.
Cherbourg: temple > library (20 turns).
Suicide galley somehow managed to stay above sea level, so I send it further E.

4 (400 AD)
Tours: galley > aqueduct (20 turns). Galley goes exploring.
Chartres: galley > marketplace (25 turns). Galley goes exploring.
Jaipur: temple > library (20 turns).
Rheims grows to size 11. I micro 1 entertainer, 1 taxman.
Suicide galley is still afloat and goes further E.

IBT
The Egyptian city of Thebes has completed The Hanging Gardens.

5 (410 AD)
Orleans: marketplace > library (16 turns).
Grenoble: barracks > horseman (8 turns).
No suicide galley succeeded in committing suicide, so they all explore further.

6 (420 AD)
Chop near Kolhapur > marketplace now in 8.
Paris: marketplace > settler (3 turns).
Lower science to 30%. Feudalism in 1, +82 gpt!

During the past few turns, I watched the Persians doing some exploring themselves. I buy their world map for 10g. It appears that the Indians have some cities on islands NE of our empire. One island is very small, the other one is bigger though and may even be part of a continent. I buy Ghandi's world map for 10g, but they haven't been doing much exploring yet.
I'll send over a galley ASAP.

IBT
We discover the secret of Feudalism. Next stop: Chivalry.
Two of our exploring galleys missed in action :(

7 (430 AD)
Science up to 50%. Chivalry in 7, +10gpt.

IBT
Hiawatha wants to exchange world maps. I'm sorry, old chap, not today.
However, he wants to give 140g + 8 gpt for Monotheism.
I'm not sure.

8 (440 AD)
Forest harvested near Lyons. Cathedral now due in 13.
Madras: library > marketplace (12 turns).
Marseilles: library > marketplace (13 turns).
Bayonne: temple > barracks (10 turns).
I get to build a nice set of steps and a set of towers for our palace :D

9 (450 AD)
Paris: settler > catapult (3 turns). Settler goes to Besancon to catch the ferry.
Bombay: library > aqueduct (10 turns).
Toulouse riots! Since it's only size 3, I never expected it to happen. I could've rushed the temple, but we need the money for horsemen upgrades. A harbor on Corsica could be useful, but since all cities are highly corrupt, it may be better to build only culture.
I'm afraid it's no use letting Orleans grow to size 5. I mm so instead of +2 food, 3 unwasted shields and 17 uncorrupted commerce, it has now +0 food, 6 unwasted shields and 25 uncorrupted commerce.
New Tours founded on Corsica. It goes to build harbor. The harbor will be in an excellent position: on a landbridge, so we can quickly get our ships on the other side of Corsica. The harbor will bring luxuries to Corsica, too.

10 (460 AD)
New Marseilles founded between Karachi and Bayonne. Goes build temple.

Final diplo:
- Tokugawa, Shogun of the Japanese Republic is annoyed with us. They have 14 cities and 0 gold. They are down Currency and Construction, and lack Silks and Incense.
- Xerxes, Emperor of the Persians Republic, is annoyed. They have 15 cities and 16 gold. They are up Monarchy and down Feudalism, and lack no resources..
- Ghandi, Mahatma of the Indian Despotism, is furious. They have 4 cities and 29 gold. They are down Mathematics, Polytheism and The Republic, and lack Iron and Incense.
- Hiawatha, Chief of the Iroquois Republic, is cautious. They have 7 cities and 54 gold. They are down Montheism and Feudalism and lack no resources.
- Our Republic has 34 cities and 337 gold. We are currently researching Chivalry. We have access to Horses, Iron, Furs, Incense and Silks. We have an average compared to Persia, and strong to anyone else.

We don't need to worry about Japan at all. Unless they find other civs, it'll take them a looooong while before Samurai.

Afterthoughts
Maybe I should've built more horsemen. I considered it smarter to focus on wealth and culture. It just seemed the right thing to do.
If anyone wants to go to war though, there's plenty of ongoing projects that can be changed to knights.
We got 10 horsemen to upgrade, plus 2 on Corsica.

Be sure to check out the island with Indian city Lahore.

Good luck :)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM1_French_Monarch_460AD.sav)

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 16, 2003, 08:41 PM

Good turns once again Frollo. Wow, a suicide galley staying afloat that long without contact? Talk about bad luck.

I'll continue the exploration and start to gather our troops. Whether I attack yet or not will be something I'll have to do on a gut feeling. If not, I'll leave it in Handy's capable hands.

Got it, and I'll try to play tonight so Handy can get a crack at it tomorrow.

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 16, 2003, 10:31 PM

Here are my turns, my teammates.

Preturn- Things look good. Since Persia already has montheism, I sell it to Iroquois for 54g and 9gpt.

IBT- Persia wants to trade WM. No thanks.
Poitier completes temple-> library

Turn 1 (470)

Move horses and various troops to Indian borders. Plan to do a quick blitz to end their existence on this continent.
Load settler into galley.

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD News. Persia has contact with Aztecs, Romans, Egyptians, and Zulus.

I go into emergency trade mode.
Feudalism to Persia for Contact w/ Rome and Aztecs
Monotheism to Aztecs for contact w/ Chinese, Zulu, and English and territory map
Monotheism to Zulu for contact with Americans and Egyptians, World Map and 192g
Monotheism to Egypt for WM, 42g and 22gpt
Feudalism to China for WM, Monarchy and 7g
Monarchy to England for WM, 17g and 3gpt
I gift rest of contacts to prevent AI trades

Everyone is broke. Nearly everyone is polite with us. We now have 692 g and 55 gpt.

Phew!

Not so bad after all. Being a tech broker between the continents would have been nice, but oh well.

IBT- Rome and China start Sun Tzu’s

Turn 2(480)

Troops continue to move
Adjust tax to 6.3.1. Chivalry in 1, +148gpt

IBT-
Chivalry discovered, Research set to Engineering (5 turns after adjustment)
Karachi completes walls-> worker
Kolhapur completes marketplace-> rax
Amien completes library-> rax
Strasbourg riots
Improve palace
Aztecs are building Sun Tzu’s

Turn 3 (490)
Upgrade 5 horses for 400g

IBT-
Delhi complete marketplace-> rax

Turn 4 (500)
Moves knights towards front

IBT-
Rheims---Cathedral-> knight
Bayonne completes rax-> library

Turn 5 (510)
Upgrade 4 horses for 320g

IBT-
Madras- Marketplace->knight
Avignon-Marketplace->aqueduct
Persioans are building Sun Tzu’s

Turn 6 (520)
Zzz

IBT-
Paris completes library-> knight
Kolhapur-rax->knight
Rouen-temple->marketplace
Rennes riots
New Orleans riots

Turn 7 (530)

New Chartres founded
Upgrade another horse
Adlust tax to gain 143gpt w/Engineering in 1 turn

IBT-
Engineering discovered-> Invention (6 turns)
Delhi-rax->knight
Karachi-worker->library
Brest-temple->harbor
Zulu are building Sun Tzu’s
Turn 8 (540)

Move units, not much more

IBT-
Bombay-Aqueduct->rax
Lyons-cathedral->knight
Cherbourg-library->marketplace

Turn 9 (550)
Nothing major

IBT-zzz

Turn 10 (560)

Nothing major

Afterthoughts

We’re up at least Chivalry on everyone. I suggest to keep going towards Gunpowder so we can get our UU and use it in a war against the Iroquois once our gpt deal with them is done. Our forces are poise for a splendid little war with the Indians, if we so desire.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMM3.JPG

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMMM1_French_Monarch_560AD.sav)

Frollo

Nov 17, 2003, 02:33 AM

Great trading, Kaiser!
Seems like our galleys all went in the wrong direction :( We could've had all contacts much earlier if we'd sailed SW from Japan. Oh well.
We're #1 on the histograph, no?

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 17, 2003, 02:44 AM

Yes, we're #1 by a good margin, nearly 300 points, IIRC. Japan is second. On the culture graph we're #1 as well, but some of the other AI's may prove problematic. Nontheless, I think we can outpace them in culture once we have the continent.

And we shouldn't worry about the contacts and the suicide galleys too much. After close examination, Persia crossed the narrow straight between Japan and Rome by using the Lighthouse. There was nothing that could have really been done. Persia would have crashed our party pretty quick anyway. Plus, I grossly overestimated the tech pace of the other continents. We were up monotheism on all of them. Even if we had gotten all of the contacts, theres not much we could have done. I managed to bankrupt the AI as is, with a monopoly we wouldn't have been able to gain much more.

handy900

Nov 17, 2003, 08:00 AM

Hmmmmm,

I'm 99% sure I'll have time to play this tonight. My RL business trip does not begin until Tuseday morning.

I'll pick it up and play tonight, or let you know if I can't.

Thanks Kaiser for the quick play!

Team,

Nice job Kaiser bankrupting the AI, we should be able to maintain the tech lead from now on and bleed the AI in the form of GPT. Snagging Copernicus & Newton's for our capital & FP city should be a goal we plan for.

Battle plans? Do we knock out the two Indian cities Hyderabad & Bengal (great name) or do you see the best course as a build up for 10 turns?

Do you have any thoughts on using Iroquois & India as partner's in a war against Persia. They could provide some cover & draw a little fire away from us. This is probably a pipe dream as I'll bet Iroquois is getting their Iron from Persia.

If there is no chance for an alliance, looks like the domino order would be India, Iroquois, Persia.

zurichuk

Nov 17, 2003, 08:42 AM

excellent turns from both players,

a real relief about the tech on the other continents, playing a solo game at the moment where once I discovered the other continent (after 10+ suicide galleys), i was half an age behind, so this is a excellent result in this SG

Kaiser_Berger

Nov 17, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by zurichuk

a real relief about the tech on the other continents, playing a solo game at the moment where once I discovered the other continent (after 10+ suicide galleys), i was half an age behind, so this is a excellent result in this SG

Personally, I was hoping for something more along that line. It's quite thrilling catching up from that far behind....but perhaps I'm just a glutton for punishment :p

Sir Bugsy

Nov 17, 2003, 10:03 AM

I think it is time to restrict Gandhi to an island existance. Let's strike while we have the advantage with knights. It won't last long.

handy900

Nov 17, 2003, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
I think it is time to restrict Gandhi to an island existance. Let's strike while we have the advantage with knights. It won't last long.

GOT IT

Playing now, I'll see what I can do about Gandhi.

edit - :( RL beeper threw me a curve requiring me to head back to the office. Sorry I was unable to connect until just now (10pm). Need to catch an early flight, and I did not get to play any turns. Please skip me and I'll catch you on the next cycle. I'm totally bummed!!!

handy900

Nov 17, 2003, 09:46 PM

In case you missed my edit, RL beeped me, requiring me to head back to the office. Sorry I was unable to connect until just now. Need to catch an early flight, and I did not get to play any turns. Please skip me and I'll catch you on the next cycle. I'm totally bummed!!! :(

Sir Bugsy

Nov 18, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by handy900
In case you missed my edit, RL beeped me, requiring me to head back to the office. Sorry I was unable to connect until just now. Need to catch an early flight, and I did not get to play any turns. Please skip me and I'll catch you on the next cycle. I'm totally bummed!!! :(

That means our fearless leader is up!

1) Sir Bugsy (On Deck)
2) Reddwarfian (Suspended until a post is made in this SG)
3) zurichuk
4) Frollo
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900 (on a business trip)
7) Hmm (Up Next)

zurichuk

Nov 18, 2003, 06:26 PM

i really wonder what it is like for you Bugsy having more than 3 cities to manage :lol:

Sir Bugsy

Nov 18, 2003, 06:30 PM

Hey we're up to four now in GK1!! :D :D

Hmmmmm

Nov 19, 2003, 08:58 AM

Sorry Guys been off work with a very bad ear infection.. got it now and will play as soon as I get home tonight (in about 3 hours).

Looks like you have all done very well, this could turn out to be a breeze :)

Hmmmmm

Nov 19, 2003, 12:49 PM

Pre-Turn (560AD)
--------
Aims: Get rid of the Indians and gear up for next war to claim continent
Change that to get rid of the Indians from the continent and leave them on those islands

IBT
---
Persians land on Island with our loan warrior with a settler.

Turn 1
------
Orleans Library -> Cathedral
Rheims Knight -> Library
Marseilles Marketplace -> Cathedral
Jaipur Library -> Marketplace
Ameins Barracks -> Knight
Bordeaux Temple -> Library

Tell Ghandi that its time for war

Move troops into Indias borders.
Do some worker stuff

IBT
---
Persians settle on island with our warrior on

Turn 2
------
Madras Knight -> Knight
Chartes Marketplace -> Cathedral
Besancon Library -> Cathedral

The battle for Hydrabad
....................
One knight redlined no damage to spear (sorry my fault for attacking accross a river)
Next knight kills spear with only one bar damage
Next knight redlined
Sword killed
Next sword does the job but gets redlined (2 spears down)
Knight kills another spear losing only one bar, now left with a archer
Elite sword kills that archer, now another archer
Vet sword dies, redlining archer

The battle for Bengal
.....................
Knight kills spear
ditto
ditto, we capture Bengal liberating 4gld and install a noble French governer
Bengal starts a temple, we also have a harbor in place :)

Other battles
.............
Knight kills a spear in the open getting redlined in the process
Knight kills archer receiving no damage

Should get Hydrabad next turn

IBT
---
Iqs mounted warrior approaches border, please not now....
Spear and worker run to the cover of Hydrabad

Turn 3
------
Our great scientists discover invention, we shall work on gunpowder next.
Paris Knight -> Sun Tzu's prebuild.
Bombay Barracks -> Pikeman
Dijon Marketplace -> Cathedral

America is also building Sun Tzus

Hydrabad
........
Elite knight dies attacking spear taking only one bar off it
Knight kills spear, just the archer to go on three bars..
let elite sword on two bars have a go, keep fingers crossed... come on RNG
Paid off, elite sword lost no bars and killed archer :) however there is another archer there now... :banghead:
Next turn then *sigh*

IBT
---
Apologies to perisa for leaving knights in his land, he is behind chivalry and invention

Turn 4
------
Delhi Knight -> Knight
Tours (choke point) Aqueduct -> Pikeman
Kolhapur Knight -> Knight
New Lyons Pike -> Temple

Another spear has arrived in Hydrabad
Vet sword deals with him
Elite sword kills archer, hydrabad is destroyed (down to one pop), we also get four workers

Now for some deals::
Iqs Engineering for 20gld and 8gpt + WM
Japan offers 20gld, no thanks
India is still upset with us and won't talk... the cities were rightfully ours, I don't know what hes so upset about
Persia is next on the hit list so no deals
Aztecs are only chivalry and invention behind but offers 50 gld and 32gpt for chivalry, I shall take that :)
Rome is skint
As is zululand
And China
England is way behind and skint
America is poor
Cleo offers 8gld + 28 gpt + WM for chivalry, thank you..

Now have 616gld and 109gpt.. have a play with science bar
Can get gunpowder in 3 (currently 4) but lose 3gpt, will keep it how it is for now, don't think anyone else we be getting it in 4.

Move workers to Karchi to help remove that jungle

Currently have 15 knights, will aim for 20+ for war against Persia.. although our military advisor says we have a strong military compared to them already :P

Turn 5
------
Bangalore Marketplace -> Cathedral
New Paris Temple -> Library

Get troops in place for war against Persia
Bombay Pikeman -> Knight, send pikeman to choke point (using goto Bugsy seeing as you are after me)
Lyon Knight -> Knight
Grenoble Knight -> Knight

Turn 6
------
Bayonne Library -> Cathedral

Carry on moving troops and clearing forest

Turn 7
------
Our wise men discover Gunpowder, Theology (in 4) next for sistines (remember got a pre-build in Paris)
Madras Knight -> Knight
Rhiems Library -> Knight
Get some nice bushes for the place from our grateful people

Send two worker to get the ferry to our Island (sorry forgot its name)

Pretty much ready for war now.... Will leave it for the next person though

Turn 8
------
Delhi Knight -> Knight

IBT
---
Japan wants TM, no thanks

Turn 9
------
New Tours Riots, I give them a scientist

Tours Pikeman -> Cat

Marseilles Riots, I give them a scientist

Kolhapur Knight -> Knight

IBT
---
Ghandi comes begging for peace, I say okay but I want all of his gld and all of his cities and his wm.
we get 30gld, Lahore (where ever that is) and WM

Turn 10
-------

Final Report
------------
I have got workers moving around in large blocks now for clearing Jungle, gets more useful land quicker
I have not connected up our only saltpeter yet.
Our culture is progressing well, but the Aztecs are doing okay as well, so I guess we will be taking them out at some stage.
My plans for the war against persia are to sign Iqs up with a MA, they should the receive some of the attacks from Persia instead of it all being on us. It will also prevent us fighting all the way along that border as it is a particularly large border. I have some knights near the western two cities of Persia, I suggest we get rid of these ASAP to keep the war in that small section to the north east of France.
Theology is in one and i vote that we start building sistines in Paris.
Lahore is on an island with the persians, so I guess we may lose that during this war.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/west11.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/north1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lahore.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/island.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HMMM1_French_Monarch_670AD.sav)